Podcast Script

Intro music begins

Jolyne
Hello everyone! I’m your host, Jolyne, welcome back to Jolyne’s Bizarre Podcast, where we
answer bizarre questions. Today I have some important guests with me to help answer one of our
most recent questions: how does being a woman affect the way you write? So if you’re a current
college student who’s majoring in some sort of writing or literature, you should stick around!
Who knows, maybe this podcast could inspire you! Let’s get started by having our guests
introduce themselves! Just say your name and profession! How about we start on my right and
then go around the circle?
Everyone agrees
Anne Aronson
Hello everyone, my name is Anne Aronson, but you can call me Professor Aronson. I’ve been
teaching at a college level for over 30 years. Right now I’m at Metropolitan State University
teaching and developing curriculum in writing, gender studies, etc.
Jolyne
Quite the impressive reputation Professor Aronson!
Aronson laughs
Anne Aronson
I haven’t got to the best parts yet, but I’ll let someone else take the spotlight.
Everyone laughs
Lisa Hammond Rashley
Hi, my name is Lisa Hammond Rashley, I’m an Associate Professor of English at the University
of South Carolina Lancaster. Most of my work focuses on gender and technology. I hope I’m
able to give some insight on our topic today!
Katharine Jenkins
My name is Katharine Jenkins, I am a feminist philosopher. So I feel well prepared to talk about
writing as a woman.
Nora Berenstain
Hello! I’m Nora Berenstain, I’m currently a Professor at the University of Tennessee. My
research interests are feminist epistemology, social and political philosophy, and the list goes on.
Deanna Chappell
I’m Deanna Chappell! I’m a Professor at the University of Oregon. My classes are focused on
Critical and Socio-Cultural studies in education.
Intro music stops
Jolyne
As you can see, we have many extremely intelligent women here to help us learn! So I’m just
going to cut to the chase: how does being a woman affect the way you write? Katharine, how
about you help get this conversation started?
Katharine Jenkins
Yeah of course, so I think it’s important that we first discuss the concept of being a woman. Now
this is extremely difficult to do. I mean there are so many different “subcategories” under the
term woman. So in my past article, “Amelioration and Inclusion: Gender Identity and the
Concept of Woman,” I looked at Sally Haslanger’s attempt to do so. I believe that “Haslanger’s
proposal for target gender concepts does not in fact solve the inclusion problem because it does
not include trans people within their identified genders” (Jenkins, 2016, p. 396). So throughout
this conversation, it’s crucial that we think about all women.
Jolyne
Wait, sorry, I know the conversation is just starting, but what do you mean by “target gender
concepts.”
Katharine Jenkins
No worries at all! When I say the phrase “target gender concepts” I’m referring to the things that
Haslanger believes make up the idea of being a woman.
Jolyne
Ahh, okay! I see now, thank you!
Katharine Jenkins
Of course, glad I could help!
Jolyne
Okay, we can carry on now! Nora it looked like you had something to say.
Nora Berenstain
Yes, I just wanted to add on to what Katharine said! When I was doing my book review on Kate
Manne’s, Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, she also struggled to include trans women into her
book. Throughout the book, Manne tended to “avoid thinking structurally about forms of
oppression beyond those experienced by cisgender class-privileged white women” (Berenstain,
2019, p. 1365). We need to keep in mind that there are many different kinds of women besides
the majority, aka white women.
Katharine Jenkins
Exactly, and I believe to successfully do this, “adjusting the definition of ameliorative inquiry to
allow for the possibility of arriving not at one single target concept but multiple equally
significant target concepts” is key (Jenkins, 2016, p. 396).
Nora Berenstain
I believe that most “women are expected to provide men with feminine-coded goods, such as
deference, attention, care and sympathy” (Berenstain, 2019, p. 1361). So when women aren’t
catering toward men, they aren’t “serving their purpose” so to say. So I believe that for a long
time if a woman is using her own time to write instead of providing, she would have most likely
been punished in some way.
Anne Aronson
Ooh, yes! I am so glad you brought that up Professor Berenstain! I completely agree that
“women cannot write unless they have both a place to go that is away from unwanted intrusion
and an income that makes them independent from men and thereby grants them time to write”
(Aronson, 1999, p. 282). Most women, unless incredibly lucky, do not have the luxury of time to
themselves. They are always busy whether they have to take care of their children, spouses, or
work to provide for either themselves or their family.
Jolyne
Wow, and I bet even now women are still struggling to find the time to be able to write.
Especially with the rise of young single mothers.
Anne Aronson
You know what, I actually interviewed a single mom who was trying to go back to school. She
tried finding a space in her small home that would be sufficient as an office for her to do her
school work. But after testing out multiple spaces, she was unable to work efficiently in any
room other than her bedroom, which automatically turns her bedroom into a workplace. She’s
unable to afford a larger home, so she just has to put up with the lack of a proper workplace until
she is able to afford another space (Aronson, 2019, p. 289).
Jolyne
I’m sure a woman’s writing identity would also be affected by all of these factors.
Lisa Hammond Rashley
Yes, yes. You are completely correct. Despite everything, women are resilient, we don’t allow
our voices and sense of self to be erased (Rashley, 2007, p. 25). If anything, everything that we
have been through has strengthened our sense of self and pride. We cannot allow ourselves to be
overshadowed by the stereotypes that surround being a woman.
Anne Aronson
To add on to that and my prior claims, without having a proper room to be able to work in peace,
women could fear that their writing would be read before it was finalized. Also, if it was a
private work not meant for other eyes, a woman could worry about her privacy being violated
(Aronson, 1999, p. 290).
Jolyne
I love everyone adding on, but Professor Chappell, I feel like you’ve taken a back seat here!
Deanna Chappell
Yes, I’ve just been waiting for the best moment to join in, but I feel like everyone else has got all
bases covered!
Jolyne
Well, I have a question for you. You teach college students about social imbalances, how do your
classes combat the fundamental thoughts behind the issues we have talked about?
Deanna Chappell
Well, my course is based around feminism, so “I nudge my student toward a deeper
understanding of the many ways systems of oppression work” (Chappell, 2022, p. 50).
Jolyne
And how do you do this typically?
Deanna Chappell
Normally I have my students “work to understand the differences between patriarchy, misogyny,
and sexism by problematizing, analyzing, and synthesizing the literature and various theories
which examine patriarchal norms” (Chappell, 2022, p. 51). In the end, I’m hoping my students
are able to use what they learn in my class to better the world. Plus by understanding all of these
social issues more, they’ll hopefully learn to be more inclusive and mindful of women so that
maybe in the future, more women will be able to enjoy the beauty of writing!
Jolyne
Wow, all I have to say is I would love to take your class!
They all agree
Deanna Chappell
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
She laughs
Jolyne
Well, I feel like we’ve been talking for awhile, but I think that was a great way to end this
podcast! Thank you everyone for coming out today, it’s been very enlightening to say the least!
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Nora Berenstain
No, thank you Jolyne!
Deanna Chappell
Yes, thank you! I’ve had fun talking about this topic!
Lisa Hammond Rashley
Yes, this was a lot of fun.
Anne Aronson
I cannot wait to be able to listen to this later.
Katharine Jenkins
Agreed!
Jolyne
Well, thank you again guys! And thank you, the viewer, for listening! I appreciate you taking the
time to listen all the way through. I hope you’ve learned as much as I have, if not more! Don’t
forget to follow and turn on our notifications. Next week we will be tackling the question: How
can we communicate with our pets? I hope to “see” you all next week!
Outro music stops
 References

Anne Aronson (1999). Composing in a material world: Women writing in space and time,

Rhetoric Review, 17:2, 282-299, https://doi.org/10.1080/07350199909359246

Lisa Hammond Rashley (2007). Revisioning Gender: Inventing women in Ursula K. Le Guin’s

Nonfiction, Biography, 30:1, 22-47, https://www.jstor.org/stable/23540596

Katharine Jenkins (2016). Amelioration and Inclusion: Gender Identity and the Concept of

Woman, Ethics, 126:2, 394-421,

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/683535

Nora Berenstain (2019). Review of Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny, by Kate Manne, Mind,

128:512, 1360-1371, https://doi.org/10.1093/mind/fzy082

Deanna Chappell (2022). Reading and Fighting Patriarchy: Book Groups and Young Adult

Feminist Fiction, Prompt: A Journal of Academic Writing Assignments, 6:1, 50-57,

https://doi.org/10.31719/pjaw.v6i1.80