Adam Kiln Notes

David,
Let me clarify a couple of things, the Adam Retort in North Carolina is the first masonry unit in the
USA and is available for viewing and operation by anyone that cares to come and do so. I am not
sure that is the same for the other units.
The lid of the unit did not crack, there was a steel plate in the firebox that expanded and cracked the
outer brick fascia, we thought we could improve on the original design and added the plate ourselves,
obviously that was a mistake.
The plate has since been removed and replaced with an arch design and actually gives us more
airflow through the chamber when we need it.
Arch on Adam Retort
Our particular unit is out in the woods, where all the feedstock is, our decision was, do we bring the
unit to the feedstock or the feedstock to the unit?
We have an abundant supply of feedstock that has been sitting, covered for over a year, the cost of
moving all the feedstock would have cost more than the unit itself so that was a no-brainer for us.
We also have thermocouples and a data logger to see exactly what the temps are inside the chamber
at various points.
It is a basic design, agreed, but for the cost factor and the size of our farm we would not need to
spend 50K on a mobile unit.
For us, its perfect, and we still use the barrel version too as we always have students coming by to
learn more about the process.
Thanks,
Flow Farm
Aberdeen, NC
flowfarm.org
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "David Yarrow" <dyarrow@...> wrote:

>
> actually, the NC adam retort is the third in the USA.
>
> the first was built by new england biochar in cape cod MA, is owned by ideal compost in
peterborough NH, was fully metalized instead of masonry, and is transportable. picture at right.
>
> the second, also built by NEB, also fully metalized, also transportable, is still unsold, and operated
by redberry farm in orleans, cape cod MA. this version has replaced the second stack with a
condenser to capture liquid pyrolytic exhausts and recycle the gases into the firebox. this unit also has
small fans to boost and regulate the flow of exhaust gases from both firebox and condenser. also a
few temperature sensors embedded to monitor the firebox and retort temperatures, and more
precisely regulate the pyrolysis process. and an air conditioner was included to chill the condenser
fluids. these modifications also required adding electric power and circuits to the unit, and a water
tank to cool ad recirculate condenser fluids. photo below.
>
> NEB also built the third adam retort in NC, but as a fixed location masonry structure with steel plate
lid and chamber separator. the lid had a flaw in it and cracked, and so the upper lid was replaced with
a rather beautiful masonry arch. no photo.
>
> the adam retort is a true monster that process 750 lbs. per bach (3/4 cord of firewood) and puts out
so much heat, it has deformed and buckled the steel plate of the first metalized version. this also
makes the unit somewhat difficult to control. it also requires constant monitoring and fuelwood feeding
to sustain pyrolysis gas ignition and temperatures.
>
> the condenser became necessary to satisfy stringent MA air quality regulations, and thus far is
performing adequately, though not perfectly. each burn yield 50+ gallons of wood vinegar and other
pyrolytic liquids. neither unit has been functioning long enough to have a realistic life cycle
assessment. the second version just this sunday completed a 4-day, four burn endurance trial at
shelburne farms VT:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jockgill/sets/72157623718106169/
> photos courtesy of jock gill.
>
>
> the adam retort is a rather simple, crude device that will need several refinements to be a fully
functional pyrloysis unit to made biochar. it is a small scale commercial unit that may prove especiallly
valuable for remore site forestry applications. however, it is too large for most on-farm agricultural
applications, which is my primary concern.
>
> for a green & peaceful planet,
> David Yarrow
> Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
> 44 Gilligan Rd, East Greenbush, NY 12061
> 802-778-0663
> www.carbon-negative.us
> www.dyarrow.org
> www.ancientforests.us
> www.nutrient-dense.info
> www.farmandfood.org
> www.SeaAgri.com
> www.OnondagaVesica.info
> www.TurtleEyeland.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: freddeneedle
> To: biochar@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 7:25 AM
> Subject: [biochar] Adam Retort in the USA
>
>
>
> Hello everyone, I just returned from a Bio Char workshop in North Carolina where they have the first
Adam Retort in the USA.
>
> It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to use here, the name of the farm is Flow
Farm and you can see their website at flowfarm.org
>
#106 From: "freddeneedle" <freddeneedle@...> freddeneedle

58 Date: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:25 am Offline
Subject: Adam Retort in the USA Send Email
Hello everyone, I just returned from a Bio Char workshop in

North Carolina where
they have the first Adam Retort in the USA.
It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to use

here, the name of
the farm is Flow Farm and you can see their website at
flowfarm.org
Reply
#106 From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@...> trmilesjr

60 Date: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:08 pm Offline
Subject: RE: Adam Retort in the USA Send Email
Another char maker by New England Biochar and Chris Adam.
Thanks Fredde.
Tom
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/flowfa
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/flowfarmadam
rmadamretort
retort
From: biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of freddeneedle
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 4:26 AM
To: biochar@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biochar] Adam Retort in the USA
Hello everyone, I just returned from a Bio Char workshop in North Carolina
where they have the first Adam Retort in the USA.
It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to use here, the name
of the farm is Flow Farm and you can see their website at flowfarm.org
Reply
#106 From: Andrew Crane-Droesch <andrewcd@...> mynameisnot

61 Date: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:55 pm drew
Subject: Re: Adam Retort in the USA Offline
Send Email
Thanks for sharing, this is interesting. Can anyone share any technical
drawings? Also, I see from flowfarm website that it needs about 100 pounds of
fuelwood to get the offgases flammable and then pyrolyze about 2000 pounds
of feedstock. Is this about accurate/how much does this vary?
And has anybody stuck a few thermocouples inside of one of these things to
get at the operating temperature or the thermal gradient between the top and
the bottom of the retort?
Looking forward to learning more.
Cheers,
Andrew
Tom Miles wrote:

Thanks Fredde.
Tom
http://terrapreta..bioenergylists.org
http://terrapreta bioenergylists.org/flowfarmad
/flowfarmadamretort
amretort
From: biochar@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:biochar@

mailto:biochar@yyahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of freddeneedle
Reply
#106 From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@...> trmilesjr

Andrew,
The Adam Retort design is owned by Chris Adam, Adam & Partner
(http://www.biocoal.org/3.html
(http://www.biocoal.o rg/3.html ) and licensed in the US through New England
Biochar. NE Biochar has also developed a mobile version of the retort that you
can see in recent posts.
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/taxonom
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/taxonomy/term/1150
y/term/1150
The fuel wood requirement is about right. It will vary depending on the
moisture of the charge in the retort and the moisture of the fuel in the burner.
NE Biochar has
has a method of
of recovering stack
stack gases from
from the unit they say
say can
heat a 5,000 ft2 greenhouse
greenhouse..
Best to contact Peter Hirst at New England Biochar peter@...
Tom

Of Andrew Crane-Droesch
Subject: Re: [biochar] Adam Retort in the USA
Thanks for sharing, this is interesting. Can anyone share any technical
drawings? Also, I see from flowfarm website that it needs about 100 pounds of
fuelwood to get the offgases flammable and then pyrolyze about 2000 pounds
of feedstock. Is this about accurate/how much does this vary?
And has anybody stuck a few thermocouples inside of one of these things to
get at the operating temperature or the thermal gradient between the top and
the bottom of the retort?
Looking forward to learning more.
Cheers,
Andrew
Tom Miles wrote:
Thanks Fredde.
Tom
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/flowfarmadamretort

Of freddeneedle
Reply
#106 From: "Ben Discoe" <ben@...> bdiscoe

68 Date: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:30 am Offline
> -----
> From: Andrew Crane-Droesch
>
> this is interesting. Can anyone share any technical

drawings?
Nobody can, because the Adam business model is to treat the

retort design as
a trade secret which is licensed. Of course they're entitled

to do so, but
IMHO it's a very odd model for agriculture, akin to selling a

tractor
without revealing how many gears it has, or how many
horsepower. I'm not
sure how many folks would take such a big bet on a deliberately
unknown
process.
Their website also lacks any mention of a license cost, so the

only source
of information currently is rumor, which says it's a few

thousand dollars.
Presumably you pay the money to learn the mechanism, and if you
then
conclude that the mechanism isn't going to work well for your
local
construction materials and abilities, then, well, you're out

the money.
IMHO, a strange and unfortunate model.
Presuming the mechanism has merit (perhaps we'll never know), I

can only
wish that the inventors had grasped the open source model, or
more
historically the 'design for livingry' of Buckminster Fuller,

who patented
all his inventions specifically to donate them for benefiting

all humanity.
-Ben
Reply
#106 From: Andrew Crane-Droesch <andrewcd@...> mynameisnot

69 Date: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:05 am drew
Send Email
Well, I'm not trying to criticize their business model.
I'm simply curious to what degree a bottom-heated retort, that is heated by

recycled pyrolysis gas, can sustain temps >400C throughout the whole vessel
for more than an hour or two. It seems like a tall order with a simple system,
given that pyrolysis gas tends to start coming out of the feedstock pretty
quickly, pretty strongly, and not for as long as one would like in order to bake
the material long enough to get high levels of highly conjugated aromatic
carbon.
I am actually trying to design something similar myself, so I'd like to learn from
what he has!
Best,
Andrew
Ben Discoe wrote:

-----
From: Andrew Crane-Droesch
this is interesting. Can anyone share any technical drawings?
Nobody can, because the Adam business model is to treat the

retort design as
a trade secret which is licensed. Of course they're entitled to
do so, but
IMHO it's a very odd model for agriculture, akin to selling a
tractor
without revealing how many gears it has, or how many
horsepower. I'm not
sure how many folks would take such a big bet on a deliberately
unknown
process.
only source
thousand dollars.
then
local
the money.
Presuming the mechanism has merit (perhaps we'll never know), I
can only
wish that the inventors had grasped the open source model, or
more
historically the 'design for livingry' of Buckminster Fuller,
who patented
all his inventions specifically to donate them for benefiting
all humanity.
-Ben
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Reply
#106 From: "David Yarrow" <dyarrow@...> yarrow_david

77 Date: Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:39 pm Offline
Subject: Re: Adam Retort in the USA Send Email
the adam retort license costs is very modest -- on the order of a few hundred
dollars, not thousands. the figure $350 bubbles into my brain.
as i understand it, the license fee is not to enrich the designer, but to support
the deployment of more units in third world countries. similarly, the secrecy is
not to protect a cash cow proprietary process, but to prevent ripoff copycats
that short circuit this modest means to raise small change to fund third world
projects. this is third hand information.
chris adam saw the primitive, polluting, inefficient, wood-wasting methods
being used in (i believe) kenya to make charcoal for cooking, and developed
the retort as a far more efficient, resource conserving, low tech way to make
this essential, universal household need. as i understand the story, he has
since built his retortd in several other african and asian nations.
my hat is off to this good man and his noble efforts. i'm happy to pay him the
modest license fee, except i'm interested in far smaller, on-farm scale units.
reality is this simple technology was developed for third world nations where
technology, sheet steel, electricity, temperature sensors, motors, even a
simple fan are hard to find or money to buy. the key component is the two
pieces of sheet steel that are the lid of the firebox, and lid of the retort. the rest
-- essentially the vertical components -- can be any sort of masonry, from clay
to firebox to stone.
the physical design is elegant simplicity, and is not a big mystery or revelation.
it's basically just like an oven, with the fire underneath, and a baking chamber
above. however, the baking chamber -- the retort, for you technos -- is sealed
(mostly) and has dual exhaust ports: one vents the water-laden initial pyrolysis
exhausts; then, after the water is baked out, this is shut and another port
opened to vent pyrolysis gases into the firebox for self-sustained burn. the
secrecy is mostly the exact dimensions and placement of these components to
sustain an efficient thermal process.
for a green & peaceful planet,
David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Rd, East Greenbush, NY 12061
802-778-0663
www.carbon-negative.us
www.dyarrow.org
www.ancientforests.us
www.nutrient-dense.info
www.farmandfood.org
www.SeaAgri.com
www.OnondagaVesica.info
www.TurtleEyeland.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Crane-Droesch
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 10:05 PM
Well, I'm not trying to criticize their business model.
I'm simply curious to what degree a bottom-heated retort, that is heated by

recycled pyrolysis gas, can sustain temps >400C throughout the whole vessel
for more than an hour or two. It seems like a tall order with a simple system,
given that pyrolysis gas tends to start coming out of the feedstock pretty
quickly, pretty strongly, and not for as long as one would like in order to bake
the material long enough to get high levels of highly conjugated aromatic
carbon.
I am actually trying to design something similar myself, so I'd like to learn from
what he has!
Best,
Andrew
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• •
Reply
#106 From: "Geralyn D" <palmtreepathos@...> palmtreepath

63 Date: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:38 pm os
Send Email
Hello freddeneedle exciting for burner for sure!
I would love to see a video of it working... Did you see it?

How do
they unload the charcoal? I would think wetting and crushing

it first
then shoveling it out. Would that be possible? Or do they

hand out
each piece which seems a bit labor intensive?
Geralyn D.
Reply
#106 From: "flowfarmchar" <flowfarmchar@...> flowfarmchar

We had the local news station out to do a presentation for

Earth Day so we will
release that video when it becomes available.
As far as unloading it, we use manure forks and snow shovels,

it was a little
labor intensive at first until we figured out our methods and

what we were going
to store it in after unloading.
Now that we have that part figured out it has become very easy
to unload and get
prepared for the next burn.
Flow Farm
Aberdeen, NC
flowfarm.org
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Geralyn D"

<palmtreepathos@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello freddeneedle exciting for burner for sure!
>
> I would love to see a video of it working... Did you see

it? How do
> they unload the charcoal? I would think wetting and crushing
it first
> then shoveling it out. Would that be possible? Or do they

hand out
> each piece which seems a bit labor intensive?
>
> Geralyn D.
>
Reply
#106 From: "Dave Green" <gardenbees@...> pollinator2001

From: "freddeneedle" < freddeneedle@...>
>
> It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to

use here, the
> name of the farm is Flow Farm and you can see their website
at
> flowfarm.org
It was disappointing to go to their home page and see: "No

synthetic
pesticides, herbicides or fungicides are ever used on the

property."
Herbicides and fungicides ARE pesticides, just as insecticides

and
rodenticides, etc.
It's about akin to saying "Baptists and Christians" or "fruit

and apples."
It's a case of mixing a group with its members.
Such sloppy writing is a clue the writer doesn't know what he's
talking
about, and always make me want to triplecheck anything else he

writes. Or
else I just quit reading right there...
Dave
Reply

Dave,
I appreciate your comments regarding the website and as I have

just taken over
the website and the management of the farm I will endeavor to

change that.
Regards
Flow Farm
Aberdeen, NC
flowfarm.org
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Green" <gardenbees@...>

wrote:
>
>
> From: "freddeneedle" <freddeneedle@...>
> >
> > It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to
use here, the
> > name of the farm is Flow Farm and you can see their website
at
> > flowfarm.org
>
> It was disappointing to go to their home page and see: "No

synthetic
> pesticides, herbicides or fungicides are ever used on the

property."
> Herbicides and fungicides ARE pesticides, just as

insecticides and
> rodenticides, etc.
>
> It's about akin to saying "Baptists and Christians" or "fruit

and apples."
> It's a case of mixing a group with its members.
>
> Such sloppy writing is a clue the writer doesn't know what
he's talking
> about, and always make me want to triplecheck anything else

he writes. Or
> else I just quit reading right there...
>
> Dave
>
Reply
#106 From: "Ben Discoe" <ben@...> bdiscoe

> -----
> From: Dave Green
>
> It was disappointing to go to their home page and see: "No

synthetic
> pesticides, herbicides or fungicides are ever used on the

property."
> Herbicides and fungicides ARE pesticides
Dave, i don't know what semantic high horse you're riding, but
the meaning
is perfectly clear and correct in colloquial English as used by

organic
farmers in the USA: Pesticides kills unwanted members of the

animal kingdom,
herbicides kill the vegetable kingdom, and fungicides kill

fungi.
> It's a case of mixing a group with its members. Such sloppy
writing
> is a clue the writer doesn't know what he's talking about
You might want to get a grip. If they wrote "no pesticides,

insecticides or
rodenticides", then you could raise a minor quibble on

redundancy. But
"pesticides and herbicides" is, in context, neither redundant

nor ambiguous.
-Ben
Reply
#106 From: "Dave Green" <gardenbees@...> pollinator2001

From: "Ben Discoe" < ben@...>
> Dave, i don't know what semantic high horse you're riding
It's called plain English. Say what you mean and mean what you
say. We'd all
communicate better, if we followed it.
"A pesticide is any substance or mixture of substances intended

for
preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any pest.

Pests can be
insects, mice and other animals, unwanted plants (weeds),

fungi, or
microorganisms like bacteria and viruses. Though often

misunderstood to
refer only to insecticides, the term pesticide also applies to

herbicides,
fungicides, and various other substances used to control pests.

Under United
States law, a pesticide is also any substance or mixture of

substances
intended for use as a plant regulator, defoliant, or

desiccant."
(EPA)
Dave
Reply
#106 From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@...> redirondog

Dear David
From: Dave Green
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 7:20 PM

From: "freddeneedle" <freddeneedle@yahoo.com>
>
> It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to use here, the
> name of the farm is Flow Farm and you can see their website at
> flowfarm.org
It was disappointing to go to their home page and see: "No synthetic

pesticides, herbicides or fungicides are ever used on the property."
Herbicides and fungicides ARE pesticides, just as insecticides and
rodenticides, etc.
# You might be technically correct, but to many people...
#PESTICIDES are what kills creepy crawlies
# INSECTICIDES also kill creepie crawlies
# HERBICIDES are what kills weeds
and
# FUNGICIDES are what kills molds, mushrooms, strange
lookijng growths, and bad stuff I can't see.
It's about akin to saying "Baptists and Christians" or "fruit and apples."
It's a case of mixing a group with its members.
Such sloppy writing is a clue the writer doesn't know what he's talking
about, and always make me want to triplecheck anything else he writes. Or
else I just quit reading right there...
# Have you found anything else of significance that was wrong,
inaccurate or misleading about the article or posting?
Best wishes,
Kevin
Dave
Reply

I appreciate the passion that people have on here, but it seems

that the whole
intent of having the Adam Retort and the bio char is getting
lost.
The intent for Flow Farm was for us to be able to use the Adam
Retort as part of
our learning and educational center (in process) and of course

primarily to add
to our soil. We are also in the process of establishing

ourselves as a
Non-profit organization.
Our typical PH here in this region is 4.5 to 5.1 and the area
is aptly named the
Sandhills. To say our soil was fast draining would be an

understatement.
We are also a Vegan farm, we use no blood meal, bone meal etc
in the preparation
of our soil.
Before someone says it, yes we do allow worms in our beds and
we do use worm tea
for side dressings and compost tea.
Yes, we created some of our own challenges but that was our
choice.
So, back to the Bio Char, we were interested in the Adam Retort
unit for several
reasons, (Not in any particular order)
To fit in with the future plans of Flow Farm.
Our proximity to the NC Farm Center that has the BCS 1000.
The availability and expertise of Peter Hirst from New England

Bio Char to
oversee construction.
The availability of Chris Adam to communicate ideas and

suggestions for
construction and for the operation of the system.
Our poor soil content.
As far as licensing and costs, we are not licensing the unit or

building it for
others why would we put the pricing on our website as its not
ours to give?
But for those that are interested in licensing and construction

you can contact
New England Biochar or Chris Adam and they will tell you how
much it costs,
after all that's how we did it.
It took one email and one phone call to get all the information
that we needed.
It's not a secret it's just a matter of going to the right

people.
It seems that many are wary because of the inability to see a

unit of the data
from a unit, well now there is one here in the USA so you can
see it, touch it,
feel it, smell it.
If you want to crawl inside it and spend the night in there to

get the full
experience we can arrange it.
Seriously though, For those that would like to come visit and
see the unit in
operation then please contact us and we would be more than

happy to show you it.
Bring gloves and comfy clothes that you don't mind getting
dirty as you will be
loading and unloading the unit as part of the educational

experience.
Flow Farm
Aberdeen, NC
flowfarm.org
Reply
#106 From: "Dave" <gardenbees@...> pollinator2001

Subject: Re: Pesticides AND herbicides? Send Email
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Chisholm"

<kchisholm@...> wrote:
> # You might be technically correct, but to many people...
>
> #PESTICIDES are what kills creepy crawlies
>
> # INSECTICIDES also kill creepie crawlies

>
> # HERBICIDES are what kills weeds
>
> and
>
> # FUNGICIDES are what kills molds, mushrooms, strange

lookijng growths, and
bad stuff I can't see.
OK, write your own definitions. Live in an Orwellian world, if

you wish.
The point is that, if you wish to COMMUNICATE, it's not a good

idea to discredit
yourself to a significant portion of the audience you wish to

reach.
In other words, if you want to be part of a little subgroup,

then you can easily
stay a little subgroup. Have your own jargon; don't use the
language of the
majority. If you can't lift a finger to learn some language

skills, you can
always stay on the outside looking in.
Dave
(Daddy's words to me: The day you don't learn something new is
the day you start
getting old.)
Reply
#106 From: "Mark Ludlow" <mark@...> dosidicus...

Subject: RE: Re: Pesticides AND herbicides? Send Email
Hi Dave,
From a strictly legal point of view, in the USA virtually all substances sold for
agriculture use are regulated by the USEPA as described by the Federal
Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) which was first passed in
1947, which also includes substances such as plant growth regulators (PGR).
All products are considered to be “pesticides” as any regulatory consultant will
quickly confirm.
It’s not exactly a foreign language if you’re associated with agriculture,

although semantically it may be a bit confusing to understand how a fertilizer
can be a “pesticide”.
Best, Mark

Of Dave
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: [biochar] Re: Pesticides AND herbicides?
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm@...> wrote:

> # You might be technically correct, but to many people...
>
> #PESTICIDES are what kills creepy crawlies
>
> # INSECTICIDES also kill creepie crawlies
>
> # HERBICIDES are what kills weeds
>
> and
>
> # FUNGICIDES are what kills molds, mushrooms, strange lookijng growths,
and bad stuff I can't see.
OK, write your own definitions. Live in an Orwellian world, if you wish.
The point is that, if you wish to COMMUNICATE, it's not a good idea to
discredit yourself to a significant portion of the audience you wish to reach.
In other words, if you want to be part of a little subgroup, then you can easily
stay a little subgroup. Have your own jargon; don't use the language of the
majority. If you can't lift a finger to learn some language skills, you can always
stay on the outside looking in.
Dave
(Daddy's words to me: The day you don't learn something new is the day you
start getting old.)
Reply

Subject: Re: Re: Pesticides AND herbicides? Send Email
out of common courtesy and netiquette, would you guys please take this kind
of contentious and largely irrelevant chatter off-line. argue this nonsense on
you own bandwidth and stop cluttering up this list. show some decency,
judgment and restraint. this is a prime reason why people abandon this list,
and we lose the benefit of their participation.
yes, i am in a grumpy mood today. we had 8 inches of rain in a recent new
england storm, and 11 inches in the one before that. people are suffering as
the temperate zone collapses. we have more serious issues to discuss.
dancing turtle
From: Mark Ludlow
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: [biochar] Re: Pesticides AND herbicides?
Hi Dave,
From a strictly legal point of view, in the USA virtually all substances sold for
agriculture use are regulated by the USEPA as described by the Federal
Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) which was first passed in
1947, which also includes substances such as plant growth regulators (PGR).
All products are considered to be “pesticides” as any regulatory consultant will
quickly confirm.
It’s not exactly a foreign language if you’re associated with agriculture,

although semantically it may be a bit confusing to understand how a fertilizer
can be a “pesticide”.
Best, Mark
MARKETPLACE
Welcome to Mom Connection! Share stories, news and more with moms
like you.
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Explore new interests.
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• •
Reply
#106 From: Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy Design Ltd <mark@...> markhyphen
Subject: Re: Re: Pesticides AND herbicides? Send Email
hear hear
David Yarrow wrote:
>
> out of common courtesy and netiquette, would you guys please
take this
> kind of contentious and largely irrelevant chatter off-line.

argue
> this nonsense on you own bandwidth and stop cluttering up

this list.
> show some decency, judgment and restraint. this is a prime

reason why
> people abandon this list, and we lose the benefit of their
participation.
> yes, i am in a grumpy mood today. we had 8 inches of rain in
a recent
> new england storm, and 11 inches in the one before that.
people are
> suffering as the temperate zone collapses. we have more

serious issues
> to discuss.
> dancing turtle
>
> *From:* Mark Ludlow <mailto: mark@... >
> *To:* biochar@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:24 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [biochar] Re: Pesticides AND herbicides?
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> From a strictly legal point of view, in the USA virtually

all
> substances sold for agriculture use are regulated by the

USEPA as
> described by the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and

Rodenticide
> Act (FIFRA) which was first passed in 1947, which also
includes
> substances such as plant growth regulators (PGR). All

products are
> considered to be “pesticides” as any regulatory
consultant will
> quickly confirm.
>
> It’s not exactly a foreign language if you’re associated

with
> agriculture, although semantically it may be a bit

confusing to
> understand how a fertilizer can be a “pesticide”.
>
> Best, Mark
>
> MARKETPLACE
>
> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the

page you're
> on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.
>
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Reply
#106 From: "Mark Ludlow" <mark@...> dosidicus...

84 Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:51 am Offline
Subject: RE: Re: Pesticides AND herbicides? Send Email
Dear Mr. Dancing Turtle,
What, pray, did your post have to do with Biochar?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of
Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy Design Ltd
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [biochar] Re: Pesticides AND herbicides?
hear hear
David Yarrow wrote:
>
take this
> kind of contentious and largely irrelevant chatter off-line.

argue
> this nonsense on you own bandwidth and stop cluttering up
this list.
> show some decency, judgment and restraint. this is a prime

reason why
> people abandon this list, and we lose the benefit of their
participation.
> yes, i am in a grumpy mood today. we had 8 inches of rain in

a recent
> new england storm, and 11 inches in the one before that.
people are
> suffering as the temperate zone collapses. we have more

serious issues
> to discuss.
> dancing turtle
>
> *From:* Mark Ludlow <mailto: mark@... >
> *To:* biochar@yahoogroups.com

<mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 13, 2010 12:24 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [biochar] Re: Pesticides AND herbicides?
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> From a strictly legal point of view, in the USA virtually

all
> substances sold for agriculture use are regulated by the

USEPA as
> described by the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and
Rodenticide
> Act (FIFRA) which was first passed in 1947, which also
includes
> substances such as plant growth regulators (PGR). All

products are
> considered to be "pesticides" as any regulatory

consultant will
> quickly confirm.
>
> It's not exactly a foreign language if you're associated

with
> agriculture, although semantically it may be a bit

confusing to
> understand how a fertilizer can be a "pesticide".
>
> Best, Mark
>
> MARKETPLACE
>
> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the

page you're
> on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ohtmanp/M=493064.13983314.139652
07.13298430/D
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>
>
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Reply
#106 From: "Dave" <gardenbees@...> pollinator2001

87 Date:Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:45 am Offline
Subject: Re: Pesticides AND herbicides? Send Email
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "David Yarrow" <dyarrow@...>

wrote:
>
take this kind of
contentious and largely irrelevant chatter off-line. argue

this nonsense on you
own bandwidth and stop cluttering up this list. show some

decency, judgment and
restraint. this is a prime reason why people abandon this

list, and we lose the
benefit of their participation.
>
> yes, i am in a grumpy mood today.
Please, please, don't get in such a grumpy mood that you fail
to see who your
friends are.
This group is a group to advocate for biochar, is it not? We

want to communicate
its need and importance to the rest of the world, no?

If this is true, then marginalizing ourselves by making a faux
pas that will
strike those with some scientific training (seems to me the

most important
audience with which to communicate) think, "Oh, well, here's

another whacko.
I'll skip this article."
So it's not irrelevant. Indeed how to best communicate our

message is quite
central to the purpose of the group.
And it need not be contentious either. The manager of flowfarm

used it as a
learning moment. He acknowledged the error and said corrections

would be made.
To me, that shows character.
Others got their panties in a wad, preferring to stick to the

small group jargon
that shuts them out of possibilities. I was offering a word to

the wise...
And you don't need to convince me. I'm making biochar every
chance I get to fire
up a burn. I'll be blogging about it in the future, and have

been posting on
garden groups already.

So recognize your friends; don't treat them like enemies. Your
scolding might
make someone (like me perhaps) think of leaving the list.
I've said all I will say. Those who are willing to learn have
done so.
Dave
Reply

actually, the NC adam retort is the third in the USA.

the first was built by new england biochar in cape cod MA, is owned by ideal
compost in peterborough NH, was fully metalized instead of masonry, and is
transportable. picture at right.
the second, also built by NEB, also fully metalized, also transportable, is still
unsold, and operated by redberry farm in orleans, cape cod MA. this version
has replaced the second stack with a condenser to capture liquid pyrolytic
exhausts and recycle the gases into the firebox. this unit also has small fans to
boost and regulate the flow of exhaust gases from both firebox and condenser.
also a few temperature sensors embedded to monitor the firebox and retort
temperatures, and more precisely regulate the pyrolysis process. and an air
conditioner was included to chill the condenser fluids. these modifications also
required adding electric power and circuits to the unit, and a water tank to cool
ad recirculate condenser fluids. photo below.
NEB also built the third adam retort in NC, but as a fixed location masonry
structure with steel plate lid and chamber separator. the lid had a flaw in it and
cracked, and so the upper lid was replaced with a rather beautiful masonry
arch. no photo.
the adam retort is a true monster that process 750 lbs. per bach (3/4 cord of
firewood) and puts out so much heat, it has deformed and buckled the steel
plate of the first metalized version. this also makes the unit somewhat difficult
to control. it also requires constant monitoring and fuelwood feeding to sustain
pyrolysis gas ignition and temperatures.
the condenser became necessary to satisfy stringent MA air quality
regulations, and thus far is performing adequately, though not perfectly. each
burn yield 50+ gallons of wood vinegar and other pyrolytic liquids. neither unit
has been functioning long enough to have a realistic life cycle assessment. the
second version just this sunday completed a 4-day, four burn endurance trial
at shelburne farms VT:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jockgill/sets/72157623718106169/
photos courtesy of jock gill.
the adam retort is a rather simple, crude device that will need several
refinements to be a fully functional pyrloysis unit to made biochar. it is a small
scale commercial unit that may prove especiallly valuable for remore site
forestry applications. however, it is too large for most on-farm agricultural
for a green & peaceful planet,
David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Rd, East Greenbush, NY 12061
802-778-0663
www.carbon-negative.us
www.dyarrow.org
www.ancientforests.us
www.nutrient-dense.info
www.farmandfood.org
www.SeaAgri.com
www.OnondagaVesica.info
www.TurtleEyeland.org
From: freddeneedle
Reply

David,
Let me clarify a couple of things, the Adam Retort in North Carolina is the first
masonry unit in the USA and is available for viewing and operation by anyone
that cares to come and do so. I am not sure that is the same for the other
units.
The lid of the unit did not crack, there was a steel plate in the firebox that
expanded and cracked the outer brick fascia, we thought we could improve on
the original design and added the plate ourselves, obviously that was a
mistake.
The plate has since been removed and replaced with an arch design and
actually gives us more airflow through the chamber when we need it.
Arch on Adam Retort
Our particular unit is out in the woods, where all the feedstock is, our decision
was, do we bring the unit to the feedstock or the feedstock to the unit?
We have an abundant supply of feedstock that has been sitting, covered for
over a year, the cost of moving all the feedstock would have cost more than
the unit itself so that was a no-brainer for us.
We also have thermocouples and a data logger to see exactly what the temps
are inside the chamber at various points.
It is a basic design, agreed, but for the cost factor and the size of our farm we
would not need to spend 50K on a mobile unit.
For us, its perfect, and we still use the barrel version too as we always have
students coming by to learn more about the process.
Thanks,
Flow Farm
Aberdeen, NC
flowfarm.org
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "David Yarrow" <dyarrow@...> wrote:

>
> actually, the NC adam retort is the third in the USA.
>
> the first was built by new england biochar in cape cod MA, is owned by ideal
compost in peterborough NH, was fully metalized instead of masonry, and is
transportable. picture at right.
>
> the second, also built by NEB, also fully metalized, also transportable, is still
unsold, and operated by redberry farm in orleans, cape cod MA. this version
has replaced the second stack with a condenser to capture liquid pyrolytic
exhausts and recycle the gases into the firebox. this unit also has small fans to
boost and regulate the flow of exhaust gases from both firebox and condenser.
also a few temperature sensors embedded to monitor the firebox and retort
temperatures, and more precisely regulate the pyrolysis process. and an air
conditioner was included to chill the condenser fluids. these modifications also
required adding electric power and circuits to the unit, and a water tank to cool
ad recirculate condenser fluids. photo below.
>
> NEB also built the third adam retort in NC, but as a fixed location masonry
structure with steel plate lid and chamber separator. the lid had a flaw in it and
cracked, and so the upper lid was replaced with a rather beautiful masonry
arch. no photo.
>
> the adam retort is a true monster that process 750 lbs. per bach (3/4 cord of
firewood) and puts out so much heat, it has deformed and buckled the steel
plate of the first metalized version. this also makes the unit somewhat difficult
to control. it also requires constant monitoring and fuelwood feeding to sustain
pyrolysis gas ignition and temperatures.
>
> the condenser became necessary to satisfy stringent MA air quality
regulations, and thus far is performing adequately, though not perfectly. each
burn yield 50+ gallons of wood vinegar and other pyrolytic liquids. neither unit
has been functioning long enough to have a realistic life cycle assessment. the
second version just this sunday completed a 4-day, four burn endurance trial
at shelburne farms VT:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jockgill/sets/72157623718106169/
> photos courtesy of jock gill.
>
>
> the adam retort is a rather simple, crude device that will need several
refinements to be a fully functional pyrloysis unit to made biochar. it is a small
scale commercial unit that may prove especiallly valuable for remore site
forestry applications. however, it is too large for most on-farm agricultural
>
> for a green & peaceful planet,
> David Yarrow
> Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
> 44 Gilligan Rd, East Greenbush, NY 12061
> 802-778-0663
> www.carbon-negative.us
> www.dyarrow.org
> www.ancientforests.us
> www.nutrient-dense.info
> www.farmandfood.org
> www.SeaAgri.com
> www.OnondagaVesica.info
> www.TurtleEyeland.org
>
> From: freddeneedle
> To: biochar@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 7:25 AM
> Subject: [biochar] Adam Retort in the USA
>
>
>
> Hello everyone, I just returned from a Bio Char workshop in North Carolina
>
> It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to use here, the
name of the farm is Flow Farm and you can see their website at flowfarm.org
>
Reply
#106 From: "Geralyn D" <palmtreepathos@...> palmtreepath

92 Date: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:40 pm os
Send Email
"flowfarmchar" Thanks for all the great pictures and info.

Does the
top of the retort get hot enough to bake pizza or bread? Maybe
a domed
lid from a weber kettle to act as an oven? I know... I

know... crazy
woman questions...
Thanks to David Y for extra info on the retort process...

Geralyn D.
Reply

93 Date: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:47 am Offline
It gets hot enough to fry an egg, we have tried that :)
Sounds like a fun thing to try some pizza though, I will let
you know how things
turn out.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Flow Farm
Aberdeen, NC
flowfarm.org
--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Geralyn D"

<palmtreepathos@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> "flowfarmchar" Thanks for all the great pictures and info.
Does the
> top of the retort get hot enough to bake pizza or bread?
Maybe a domed
> lid from a weber kettle to act as an oven? I know... I

know... crazy
> woman questions...
>
> Thanks to David Y for extra info on the retort process...

Geralyn D.
>
Reply
#106 From: "Greg and April" <gregandapril@...> gregh80915

A couple of years ago ( when I looked at the retort ), it was

$1000 Euro,
which translated to about $2500 US.
I suspect that the license cost is still tied to the Euro, and
so the final
cost in US$ is calculated at the time of transaction.
Greg H.
Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into

nothing that is
something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.

.
From: "Ben Discoe" < ben@...>
To: <biochar@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 19:30
Subject: RE: [biochar] Adam Retort in the USA

only source

thousand dollars.
then
local

the money.

Reply
#106 From: "Greg and April" <gregandapril@...> gregh80915

If the cost is now $350, then it's come down from what it was a
few years ago.
Greg H.
.
Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
.
From: David Yarrow
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 10:39
the adam retort license costs is very modest -- on the order of a few hundred
dollars, not thousands. the figure $350 bubbles into my brain.
Reply

as i said, this is third hand info. others will know better than me. the adam
retort is not an interest of mine.
david
From: Greg and April
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:09 PM
If the cost is now $350, then it's come down from what it was a
few years ago.
Greg H.
.
MARKETPLACE

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David,

Arch on Adam Retort

--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "David Yarrow" <dyarrow@...> wrote:

#106 From: "freddeneedle" <freddeneedle@...> freddeneedle

Hello everyone, I just returned from a Bio Char workshop in

they have the first Adam Retort in the USA.

It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to use

#106 From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@...> trmilesjr

Another char maker by New England Biochar and Chris Adam.

#106 From: Andrew Crane-Droesch <andrewcd@...> mynameisnot

Looking forward to learning more.

Tom Miles wrote:

From: biochar@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:biochar@

#106 From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles@...> trmilesjr

Best to contact Peter Hirst at New England Biochar peter@...

From: biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

Looking forward to learning more.

Another char maker by New England Biochar and Chris Adam.

From: biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

#106 From: "Ben Discoe" <ben@...> bdiscoe

> From: Andrew Crane-Droesch

> this is interesting. Can anyone share any technical

Nobody can, because the Adam business model is to treat the

a trade secret which is licensed. Of course they're entitled

IMHO it's a very odd model for agriculture, akin to selling a

Their website also lacks any mention of a license cost, so the

of information currently is rumor, which says it's a few

construction materials and abilities, then, well, you're out

IMHO, a strange and unfortunate model.

Presuming the mechanism has merit (perhaps we'll never know), I

historically the 'design for livingry' of Buckminster Fuller,

all his inventions specifically to donate them for benefiting

#106 From: Andrew Crane-Droesch <andrewcd@...> mynameisnot

I'm simply curious to what degree a bottom-heated retort, that is heated by

Ben Discoe wrote:

Nobody can, because the Adam business model is to treat the

#106 From: "David Yarrow" <dyarrow@...> yarrow_david

Well, I'm not trying to criticize their business model.

I'm simply curious to what degree a bottom-heated retort, that is heated by

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest Unsubscribe Terms of Use

#106 From: "Geralyn D" <palmtreepathos@...> palmtreepath

Hello freddeneedle exciting for burner for sure!

I would love to see a video of it working... Did you see it?

they unload the charcoal? I would think wetting and crushing

then shoveling it out. Would that be possible? Or do they

each piece which seems a bit labor intensive?

#106 From: "flowfarmchar" <flowfarmchar@...> flowfarmchar

We had the local news station out to do a presentation for

release that video when it becomes available.

As far as unloading it, we use manure forks and snow shovels,

labor intensive at first until we figured out our methods and

to store it in after unloading.

prepared for the next burn.

--- In biochar@yahoogroups.com, "Geralyn D"

> Hello freddeneedle exciting for burner for sure!

> I would love to see a video of it working... Did you see

> then shoveling it out. Would that be possible? Or do they

> each piece which seems a bit labor intensive?

#106 From: "Dave Green" <gardenbees@...> pollinator2001

From: "freddeneedle" < freddeneedle@...>

> It was exciting to see such simple technology being put to

It was disappointing to go to their home page and see: "No

pesticides, herbicides or fungicides are ever used on the