UNSW CLOUD

CAREERS
GUIDE
2021 EDITION
 Contents
President's Address.....................................1
Vice President's Address............................2
Introduction...................................................3
Special Thanks..............................................4
What is Cloud Computing..........................5
Careers In Cloud..........................................6
Careers In Cloud..........................................7
Pathways In Cloud.......................................8
Balancing work and social life...................9
Companies that utilise Cloud..................10
Interview Tips..............................................14
What companies are looking for............15
Guest Speakers..........................................16
Adrian - Cloud Lead................................17
Katinka - Data Scientist..........................18
Francisco - Senior Consultant..............19
Gerhard -Director of Talent..................22
Simone - Cloud Lead..............................25
JM - Distinguished Technologist..........29
 2020 President's Address Peter Kim

It is my utmost pleasure to introduce our ever first edition of the UNSW Cloud’s
Careers Guide.
Our mission is to provide insight into potential careers in the field of cloud
computing, opportunities to learn about and practise highly sought-after skills and
provide an additional pathway towards success during your university career.
The Careers Guide is a manifestation of our dedication towards this goal and the
cumulative work of passionate students who are working to make the process of
picking a career, just a bit easier. So, this year, we highly encourage all students to
seek out a new skill, opportunities and step out of your comfort zone to experience
the unknown. Take every opportunity to learn, grow and take a step closer to
success.
We hope that this guide will be of help in propelling your career and hope to see you
all at our future events
.Finally, I would like to extend my thanks to the dedicated team that worked behind
the scenes to make this a reality. I would like to shine a light on their incredible
efforts in the creation of this resource and thank them on behalf of all students who
will use the guide to shape their careers.

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2020 Vice President's Address Ace Nguyen
As UNSW Cloud steps into its 2nd year of operation, I would like to thank all of the
members who have been supporting our society so far. Throughout the last few
years, we have achieved multiple milestones that we are very proud of. We have
helped thousands of students learn more about cloud computing and get certified by
different companies.
Throughout this experience alone, I have grown significantly as a leader and as a
cloud computing enthusiast. The Cloud Society has given me more than just
education and growth opportunities, it has become a place I can call “home”. At
UNSW Cloud, we empower you to take the initiative to learn and apply cloud
computing skills into practice. Through this, we want to bridge the gap between
education and industrial practices, providing you opportunities to not only get
certified by companies, but also to network with hundreds of top performing
companies.
This Careers Guide will be a starting point. Created by our Marketing and Business
teams, the guide will walk you through the tips and tricks of navigating around the
Cloud Computing sector with advice and insights from our own graduates and
sponsors. Regardless of your current degree progress, this Careers Guide has
something for everybody.
So, stop procrastinating and start achieving your dream careers goal with UNSW
Cloud Society.

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 Introduction

We hope you have had a great year of 2020 and wish you all the best for 2021. In celebration of
our 2nd year of operations, UNSW Cloud decided to release a Careers Guide to provide
students insights into the fast growing Cloud Computing industry.

Our team has worked hard upon creating this guide to benefit students into providing insights
into careers in this industry. This guide will provide students with deeper insights into the Cloud
Computing industry including advice, commonly asked questions and concerns and tips & tricks.
A panel of industry experts will also be given further insights into a day into their lives, how they
got started, common misconceptions and much more.

Cloud computing is a recent field that has been gaining rapid attention with businesses due to
its successful application in many industry leaders such as Netflix. It is expected that by 2022,
60% of organisations will use a cloud-managed service, which is double the number in 2018. As
cloud computing rapidly accelerates towards becoming a $300 billion industry by 2021, cloud
computing is becoming a highly sought-after skill set by potential employers. As stated by
Vincent Quah, regional head of education, research, healthcare, and non-profit organisations at
Amazon Web Services, “Cloud is now what we call the new normal. It’s no longer an experiment,
it’s no longer an after-thought … when you talk to most companies, it is [no longer about] why
they should use cloud, but when they should use it.”UNSW Cloud seeks to support students and
provide support through their individual journeys to success.

We hope you find the guide informative and helpful and encourages you all to delve more into
the world of Cloud Computing.

Disclaimer: This guide is based on the research of UNSW Cloud to benefit students and by no
means is an official source provided by any companies excluding the guest speakers from
Contino.

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 Special Thanks

A big thank you to everyone who has worked very hard on this guide. A
special thanks to the marketing team and other members of UNSW
Cloud for their hard work into providing the contents and working hard
to bring the careers guide to life. Also a big thank you to UNSW Cloud
mentor, Brad Hester, for guiding us throughout not only this careers
guide but with projects throughout the whole year.

We would like to also appreciate and show our gratitude to Contino

and their industry experts for becoming guest speakers and taking the
time in sharing their wisdom with us.

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 What is Cloud Computing?
Cloud computing is an online platform which allows users to
communicate and access resources remotely. In the society we live
in today, there is a growing reliance on wired technology and online
services, as such it is imperative cyber databases are made
accessible to all. However, not everyone is able to understand the
complex nature of the extensive interweb, as such, cloud computing
has made access possible without conscious user engagement.
Cloud computing enables this concept, as it is a readily available
data storage and communication cyber workspace where users are
able to interact and utilise the platform without having to even think
about the technicality of cloud computing. As the study into cloud
computing continues to intensify, it has arguably become one of the
most cost effective and flexible ways to access various resources
virtually, giving it a competitive edge against other similar concepts.
This ultimately suggests promising career opportunities within the
cloud industry and an increase in demand for cloud skills.

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 Careers in Cloud
Since the cloud computing industry is ever growing, new career
opportunities are opening up resulting in a never-ending list of careers
in cloud. Listed below are just some of the most promising jobs for the
future of the cloud computing industry.

Software/web developer
A software or web developer must have a bachelor’s degree in either
software engineering or computer science, as c are referred to as front
end developers as they form the foundation of websites and other
computerised utilities by converting design files to codes.

Information security analyst

An information security analyst is required to hold a bachelor’s degree
in computer science or a Master of Business Administration in
information systems. This is pivotal as employees will have to monitor
and even enhance security measures to ensure the safety and
protection of related computer networks whilst also countering any
computer viruses that present. This includes controlling and
minimising security derelictions, performing various networking tests to
cultivate high user safety and also document any security breaches.

Database administrator
Database administrators are required to establish an efficiently
accessible database, by formulating a system to store, organise and
extract independent information and records securely to prevent any
leakages of personal data. As this task requires a more logical
approach to work, employees must earn their bachelor’s degree in
computer science, or a diploma in information technology.

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 Data scientist
A data scientist must be able to extract information and from surveys
and interpret the information gathered to ensure they are able to
organise and solve various computational issues at hand. This requires a
combination of coding, modelling and statistical mathematics, which can
be attained through the tertiary study of data science, or a dual degree
in actuary and computer science majoring in database systems.

Cloud Engineer
A cloud engineer can encompass many roles such as those of a cloud
architect, cloud software engineer, cloud security and cloud network
engineer. They are largely responsible for the design, management,
maintenance and support of the technical components of cloud
computing. Cloud engineers would preferrably have a degree in
computer science, engineering or any related field along with relevant
additional certificates. They usually require knowledge of various
programming language and experience such as NoSQL, DevOps and/or
AWS etc.

Cloud Architect
A cloud architect works on the components and subcompoenents in
cloud computing. They take the technical requirements and create an
architecture and design to help achieve a final product by creating a
company's computing strategy. Some requirements for this role are
knowledge of at least one operating system, programming languages,
security and a technical background.

Cloud Consultant
A cloud consultant works with clients to analyse their needs and develop
a solution for their cloud needs. They usually require a bachelors degree
and a certification in their desired cloud field would be preferable. Unlike
a cloud architect and engineer, cloud consultants would utilise a lot
more customer service skills to engage with their clients.

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 Pathways into the Cloud Industry
As the cloud computing industry is expected to grow by almost 20%
in the next few years, there is an increasing demand for qualified
academics. Subsequently, the easiest and quickest way to enter the
cloud computing industry is by attaining a tertiary education,
specifically in Bachelor of Computer Science, Information
Technology, Data Science, Software Engineering or Information
Systems as these degrees yield the most job opportunities in the
cloud industry upon graduation.

However, we all know the phrase, “experience is greater than

knowledge”, in other words, it is possible to enter the cloud
computing industry via alternative pathways. By building up a
reputable and sought-after portfolio for the industry, depending on
the employer it is possible to enter the cloud computing industry
without having a tertiary education in the field. One of the most
valued skill in the industry is the ability to use programming and
coding applications, you can attain these additional skills by
undertaking short courses and gaining the respective certificates
adding to your portfolio.

Another easy way to get your foot in the door is to offer your skills
and hard work for free (i.e. working without pay) or volunteer for
similar type jobs, it is much easier to find smaller non-profit
organisations looking for an extra set of hands than to get into
bigger companies. This will allow you to expand your network and
find yourself reputable references which will ultimately aid in your
quest of entering the cloud computing industry. A unique and
extensive portfolio will assist you in finding work in the industry by
deeming you a more competitive applicant for the role.

Remember, UNSW Cloud provides sources of training, via seminars

that offers opportunities for certifications in the “Cloud” so be sure
to follow our socials to stay updated!

Otherwise, seeing as the cloud computing industry is ever

expanding, most university bachelor degrees will give you an
opportunity to work in the industry as new job opportunities in
various departments are opening up seemingly on a daily basis.
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 Balancing Social and Work Life

It is important to have a balance in life to prevent burnout and stress in

order to live a healthy lifestyle. Here are some tips on how to achieve
that:
Plan out your week so that you can stay organised, but make sure
you give yourself some personal time!
Make a to-do list and prioritise tasks if needed
Take small breaks throughout your day to increase your
concentration, for example going for a short walk, getting a snack
or taking a nap before getting back to work.
It is important to take care of your mental health as well as physical
health. Some things you can do to take a break from work life
include:
Joining a gym or a sports competition with your friends to
ensure that you do some physical activity to keep your body
healthy
Finding a hobby to relax and take a break from work to avoid
burning out
Catching up with friends, such as going out for dinner

9
 Companies that Utilise Cloud
Computing
There are many companies that utilise cloud computing, listed
below are companies that utilise the platform. We have provided
details about the company, on how to apply and opportunities for
students.

Google
Google was founded in September 1998 by Larry Page and Sergey
Brin. It is considered one of the big four technology companies,
alongside Amazon, Apple and Microsoft with over 100 subsidiary
companies and a wide range of products such as Google Maps,
Gmail, Android.
Internship opportunities and graduate jobs:
https://careers.google.com/students/
Student Training in Engineering Program
Allows students in 2nd year uni to experience first-hand what
it is like working as an engineer at google.
Includes 3 components: Software project, Skills-based
training, Professional development.
Opportunity to enhance coding skills, exposure to new
programming languages.
Mentored by senior Googlers and gives you the opportunity
to expand your network.
Can get into Google Cloud in the future if you want to specialise
in cloud computing

Apple
Apple is an American multinational technology that is considered
one of the big four technology companies that designs, develops,
and sells consumer electronics, computer software, and online
services.
Job Opportunities:
https://www.apple.com/jobs/au/students.html

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 Atlassian
Atlassian is an Australian multinational software enterprise founded by
Mike Cannon-Brookes and Scott Farquhar in 2002. Atlassian develops
products for software development, project management, and content
management. Its well-known products include issue tracking
application Jira and its team collaboration and wiki product Confluence.
Atlassian has over 100,000 customers.
Internship opportunities:
https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers/interns
12 week full-time internship
Face real projects guided by experienced mentors who assist
you and give you a taste of what life is really like working there
Graduate jobs:
https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers/graduates

Deloitte
Deloitte, is a multinational professional services network. Deloitte is
one of the Big Four accounting organizations and the largest
professional services network in the world by revenue and number of
professionals, with headquarters in London, United Kingdom.
Summer Vacation Program:
https://www2.deloitte.com/au/en/pages/careers/articles/summ
er-vacation-program-careers.html
Full time 3-8 week paid internship
Exposure to real client projects, opportunity to expand your
network as well as training
Mentored by industry experts
Opportunity to secure a permanent grad role
Winter program held in Canberra
Graduate Program:
https://www2.deloitte.com/au/en/pages/careers/articles/gradua
te-program-careers.html

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 Amazon Web Services (AWS)
Amazon Web Services (AWS) is a subsidiary of Amazon providing on-
demand cloud computing platforms and APIs to individuals,
companies, and governments, on a metered pay-as-you-go basis.
These cloud computing web services provide a variety of basic abstract
technical infrastructure and distributed computing building blocks and
tools.
Internship Program
12 - 16 week program where interns own their own projects
from start to finish.
Mentor and manager provided to guide them through their
internships.
Training provided to assist with things like managing
experiences, analysing data, problem solving, writing narrative
documents, and working backwards from customer to the end
goal.
https://amazon.jobs/en-gb/teams/internships-for-students
Graduate Jobs:
https://www.amazon.jobs/en-gb/teams/jobs-for-grads

SAP
SAP is a German multinational software corporation that makes
enterprise software to manage business operations and customer
relations.
Internship
Paid 3-12 month internship
Full or part-time employment
Real projects and collaborate with other colleagues
Mentors provided to guide you
https://www.sap.com/australia/about/careers/students-
graduates/internships.html
Silicon Valley Next Talent Program
18 month full time rotational program
Tailored training, project-based work, opportunity to expand
your network
Career accelerator for recent graduates and opportunities in
Development, design, data science
https://www.sap.com/australia/about/careers/students-
graduates/graduates/silicon-valley-next-talent-program.html

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 IBM
IBM is an American multinational technology company founded in
1911 with operations in over 170 different countries. Producing and
selling computer hardware, middleware and software. They also
provide hosting and consulting services in areas ranging from
mainframe computers to nanotechnology. IBM is also a major research
organisation, as of 2020 holding the record for most U.S. patents
generated by a business for 27 consecutive years
Graduate Jobs:
https://www.ibm.com/au-en/employment/entrylevel/

Microsoft
Microsoft is an American multinational technology company that was
founded by Bill Gates and Paul Allen on April 4, 1975 and is known for
its Microsoft Windows line of operating systems, Microsoft Office Suite
and Internet Explorer.
Internship opportunities and graduate jobs:
https://careers.microsoft.com/students/us/en
Engineering Internships
12 week summer program with flexible start dates.
Assigned a mentor to work on real projects.
Competitive Salary
Must be returning to full-time education for a minimum of one
semester to be eligible for this opportunity.
Can get into Microsoft Azure which deals with cloud computing

Contino
Contino is a technical consultancy focusing with a goal to work with
their clients to help their enterprises become "fast, agile and
competitive" as stated on their LinkedIn. They place a big emphasis on
the fast growing world of cloud computing. They have worked with
many large companies such as Vodafone, Jetstar, Adidas and
Medibank just to name a few.
https://www.contino.io/about
Job listings can be found on their website:
https://www.contino.io/join-us

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 Interview Tips
Research the Company Beforehand
Familiarising yourself with the organisation and their goals as well as what the
job requirements are will enable you to effectively convey why you would be
the best candidate for the position. This is one of the most overlooked
sections as employers will never explicitly ask you for your knowledge on the
company’s beliefs and goals. By showing you understand the company’s wants
and needs gives you a competitive edge against other applicants. Employees
are looking for candidates whose character best suit the company’s visions, AS
WELL AS the candidate’s qualifications.

Bring a Copy of your Resumé and Cover Letter

Employers have to read through thousands of resumés and cover letters
when recruiting, more often than not, they will have forgotten your application
details. So by giving them a copy of your resumé or cover letter, will allow
them to read it again to better understand your skill set and what you have to
offer. Also, a common occurrence in interviews is interviewees forgetting to
talk about crucial past work experiences, by having your resumé at hand you
can easily look back and refer to past work experiences that you may have
overlooked

Prepare for Commonly Asked Questions

Many candidates stutter and become anxious when asked an unexpected
question during an interview, this may give the interviewer an inaccurate
perception of your character and capabilities. By being prepared to answer
these questions, you minimise the pressure that may be imposed on you
when asked questions, this allows you to show your attentiveness to the
employer, further accentuating your passion and gravity for the position.

Dress Appropriately
First impressions are important when it comes to interviews as the employer
has yet to understand your character. The clothes you choose to wear is a
direct reflection of who you are as a person; being underdress may imply to
the employer that you may not be that serious about the position you are
applying for, on the other hand, if you are too overdressed for the occasion
this may suggest a lack of understanding of the role making you not the ideal
fit in their eyes

14
 Interview Tips
Ask Questions
After a long day, perhaps weeks of interviewing, it is often hard for employers
to remember every single candidate, so at the end of an interview, use this
opportunity to ask the employer some insightful questions. This will not only
display your interest towards the company but will also enable you to leave
some sort of impression. By asking a question you are genuinely curious
about or a unique question will allow you to show your character to employers
since, your competitors will most likely have the same academic background
as yourself. So by divulging a small part of your interests/personality via a
question helps you differentiate yourself from other candidates leaving lasting
impressions that ultimately give employers more confidence in choosing you
over someone else.

14
 What Employers are Looking for when
Hiring

Appropriate Fit for the Company

Not only is it important to have the required qualifications for the
job, employers are looking for people whose values align with
those of the company and who will best assimilate into the
company. This is to ensure you are able to work cooperatively and
efficiently once hired.

Extracurricular Activities
Extracurricular activities are a good indication to companies of
who you are as a person beyond your academic qualifications.
Involvement in different activities are synonymous with various
soft skills that are appreciated in a work-team environment. For
example, being a part of university societies often akin to
teamwork and time management competence, as they are soft
skills nurtured through the involvement alongside university
studies. Many other extracurricular activities will highlight other
soft skills such as, ability to work in a team environment,
communication skills and more. Degree specific extracurricular
activities are treasured, but not required.

Dedication and Enthusiasm

When hiring fresh graduates, companies look for students who
are willing to learn which will ultimately benefit the company in
the long run through accelerated growth via passion of
employees. One common misconception students have is
applying to several companies in a desperate attempt to land a
grad job.However, this kind of approach may hurt your chances
as it leaves a bad impression of you to recruiters. Once hired,
employers expect their employees to stay long term and not
simply leave when a better opportunity arises, in saying so, best
advice would be to do your research and tailor your resumé and
interview towards specific companies.
15
 Guest Speakers
Thank you to Contino and their guest speakers for providing their advice and insights. Here are
the transcripts of their interviews, the link to the video for an mp4 format will also be provided
under each speaker.

16
 Adrian - Cloud Lead
UNSW Cloud: Hi Adrian, can you do a quick introduction of yourself?

Adrian: My name is Adrian Andreacchio. I am cloud lead or a lead consultant at Contino. I studied at
UNUSW doing an undergrad in Language History and Politics. Postgrad at University College London in
History and Archeology. I did a Master of IT at UTS.

UNSW Cloud: How did you get into the tech field from an Arts background?

Adrian: That is a great question. I know a lot of people actually who are from an Arts background but a lot
of them got into a Project Management space but not too many on the engineering side. How I got in
there is because I have always had an interest with building computers since I was young but I never
enjoyed computing in high school as it was not practical and I was looking for something more hands-on.
And when I finished my HSC, I wanted to do Language and History. So, I had the interest and skills just not
the academics in the tech field. I ended up working for BBC for 10 years after that, I was exposed to the
humanity side of it and using specific software in the role at BBC. It was a well-fitting role for me.I then
went into the training and management space which involved some software development and testing. A
friend of mine in software consulting recommended me to get out of the TV broadcasting field as it was
going down. They suggested me to get into cloud consulting as I had some technical experience, I just
needed to brush up on skills related to cloud. Thus, I got into a Master of IT to learn more about the
technical skills and now here I am.

UNSW Cloud: That’s really interesting how you got here. How would you describe a typical day is like in
your role?

Adrian: Everyday is different as sometimes we get long-term clients and sometimes we get short-term
clients as a Consultant. At the moment, I’m reviewing at lot of documentations and making sure our
architecture diagrams are up to scratch with my colleagues all of over the world. This means first thing in
the morning; I have dozens of emails from the US to catch up on with meetings any time during the day.
So, it’s very self-driven and agile in our team with sprints and we have a lot of autonomy to drive the
process. That is what I like about my job.

UNSW Cloud: You mentioned you are a Cloud Lead. What advice would you give people to move career
path to become a Cloud Lead as well?

Adrian: Have a passion for learning and opening. Don’t think 1 technology is the best, be open to other
alternatives. What you want is the right tool for the job. Be open in your thinking. Do certifications if you
can. Practice for them, either through a university degree or self-taught.

UNSW Cloud: Do you have any tips for students?

Adrian: Whenever there is an event like AWS Reinvent, get on it. You may not completely understand all of
their services, just go to them, meeting new people, meet recruiters to network and learn what are they
looking for. Learn more about AWS services and how to use them through those events to make yourself
more competitive. Also, self-teach yourself technical skills through YouTube and CloudGuru. A really
interesting thing about ClouGuru is that people can build an entire website in a serverless fashion on it.Do
write blogs about what you learned, people love blogs and that’s 1 way to build your personal brand.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/bk3MsMEenvE

17
 Katinka - Data Scientist
UNSW Cloud: Can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Katinka: My name is Katinka and I am a Data Scientist at Contino.

UNSW Cloud: We noticed you studied a degree in Astronomy and Astrophysics. How did you get to where
you are now?

Katinka: With my degree in Astronomy, I was following the academia path for a while. First I did a PHD in
Astrophysics and became a researcher for a while. While people think the work I do might be related to
just looking at starts at night, I actually write reports, present at conferences, analyse a lot of data and
write a lot of code. These are all transferable skills. Thus, it was easy for me to apply them in a new
domain. Actually, there are a lot of commonalities between my research work and my work as a data
analyst, which comes down to the data analysis approaches. Also, data and cloud are strongly connected.
For example, the streaming of TV series and how AI uses that for recommendations. I am the person who
analyses the data and writes these AI algorithms.

UNSW Cloud: So what stimulated your passion for data and the cloud consulting industry?

Katinka: Cloud and data have been booming with everything going online nowadays. The best thing is that
we have not figured them all yet. AI has so much potential. Think about self-driving cars, solving climate
change issues, going into space. Through AI and cloud, you are shaping the future and helping the world.

UNSW Cloud: Do you have any advices for students from unrelated degrees but want to transition into a
cloud career path?

Katinka: A lot of people in tech come from non-technical background. This is good as we have more
perspectives which create better solutions. Students can make use of their transferable skills. They can try
to upskill themselves continuously to catch up with technology. Do cloud certifications in your own time
and try to find relevant experiences to keep learning. Go to hackathons, cloud events and networking
events.

UNSW Cloud:What does your job mostly entail?

Katinka: In a consultancy firm, every day is different for me. There are days where I code a lot and analyse
data. There are days where I write proposals for a certain project. Communication is also very important
as you will be liaising with stakeholders every day..

Link to video: https://youtu.be/ySUK_HEwflA

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 Francisco - Senior Consultant
UNSW Cloud: Can you tell us a bit about yourself?

Francisco: My name is Francisco Colet. Mostly known by Kiko with my coworkers, it is my short name pretty
much. I'm a senior consultant at Contino, in the cloud and dev ops space. In terms of my university, I went
into a Brazilian university back in my country, which is called McKenzie university. It was recommended by
ACS, similar to a bachelor degree here in the US, and in Australia. Similar to master in computing. but
yeah, it's from Brazil. So it's, it's a different concept of how things work.in terms of university, I say this it's
different levels. We don't have as many levels of universities as you guys have here, different, degrees and
things like that.

UNSW Cloud: With your degree, how do you really get started and how do you really move into your
current field and your current job as you are doing today?

Francisco: So during my first year here at the university, I already got a job in IT. Like, entry level, so like
internship, let's say this way, where I start to work most of the servers and infrastructure and doing
business as usual work, like support, activities, fixing servers or studying, applications and basic stuff like
really early job activities. Right. And from there, I just keep, pretty much growing in the same company. I
stayed there for about seven years, learning different skills in terms of mostly in that infrastructure
servers, network storage, backup technologies, and a little bit of virtualization as well, back in the day.But
as there is no such things as clouds. So it was mostly in prem stuff. and after a few years there, I moved
into a different position in HP, which is, Hewlett Packard enterprise services and work mostly with projects
there. delivering solutions to one of their customers was more of a solution architect, not as much as,
support and, and business as usual.And when I moved to Australia, I was fully focused on cloud. I mean,
back in Brazil during my, last employment there, I was working with cloud, but not as much as I'm working
here. So here I pretty much just focused entirely on cloud in DevOps. And I've been doing this for the past
three years and a half now?

UNSW Cloud: Why did you really move into the cloud field out of everything else?

Francisco: when I started to work with cloud back in Brazil and I had no idea what it was about. Right. I was
just, in a project that had cloud and I start to work with that and. for me, it was something really
interesting, something related that blow my mind and not only the cloud itself, but the things around
cloud and how things work for the cloud, like automation as a main principle, the fact of infrastructure,
infrastructure as code.So those kinds of things that surround cloud it pretty much amazed me. And I just
said, okay, I'm moving out to Australia. I'll fully focus on that. So I spent pretty much my last year in Brazil,
just studying and focusing on some certification. So I, when I got here in Australia, it was maybe easier to
get my first job here and start working with that, that I want you to do.

19
UNSW Cloud: What does a cloud consultant do? so can you help me explain, what do you
do in a day, as in what's a typical day, like for you, in your role?

Francisco: Yeah, it's that, that's a tricky equation because. my days are pretty much different
every day, which is something that, made me love this position in this kind of work. But I
would say that most of my days are, Normally with some agile ceremonies, which is the
methodology that we normally use in cloud products.So something like they stand up every
day or maybe, a planning session, which we normally plan the next sprint, which is the next
few weeks of work or maybe some work. So any of the agile methodologies is what we
normally have, or at least I have in most of my days. And after that is pretty much just
depend on the engagement, but for example, if I'm working on a cloud migration project, I
probably would be doing some work around these migrations. So maybe creating a
database in the cloud or migrating some data or, creating a container version of an
application, creating some infrastructure as code, should deploy something to cloud or
reviewing someone's code.So it, it would depend. There's so much to do and so many
different things that I do in my, days that it's hard to say one specific day or something
repetitive is that's something nice that I like about it. It's every day, something new and
some new challenges and especially in the cloud, I mean, every day or most of the days,
there's something new happening.So you might be working with something that. maybe it
was what is last week and it, you know, it's, it's hard because you need to go to some
documentations and find things by yourself because no one else did that, before you, so it's
really interesting for us, for me on that spectrum of the position. And especially in the cloud
environment. If you don't keep learning, you're pretty much going to fall behind really, really
quickly. So being a cloud opposition in a customer that is trying to reach the biggest benefits
of the cloud, it it's good because you are able to keep up to date with, with those things.

UNSW Cloud: Some students of them are more on the technical side and some are not. So
do you have any advise on which certifications each student should go for just to begin their
cloud journey?

Francisco: First of all, try to pick one of the main cloud providers. I think that here in
Australia, most of the companies are using either AWS, Azure or GCP. Some might use
Alibaba as well, but I'd say those three are the main ones. And try to, first of all, focus on
one, try to understand nice and well, how one of them works and what are the main
benefits of it?Otherwise you're going to get overwhelmed. It's too much to try to, absorb
everything. So I'll say first try to focus on one and all of them have some, I'd say angel level
or foundation certification. Like for AWS, you have the cloud practitioner, for GCP, you also
have something similar in, Azure, if I'm not mistaken is Azure fundamentals.So I would say
that those are. Really good entry-level certifications to get into. And if you feel comfortable
with those, you can go into the associate levels of those certifications. So for AWS, all the
three associates, architect, solution architect, developer or CS ops, those are, very good
certifications you have in the market.

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UNSW Cloud: Is your idea of continual learning also why you founded the dev ops Academy?

Francisco: Yeah, so that the DevOps Academy was, it was kind of a way to give back to the
community. so I'm really engaged in a Brazilian community hearing in Australia, especially
specifically here in Melbourne.So we, we used to have before they are locked down, lots of meetups
and catch-ups in pubs and things like that, mainly to, create some kind of networking for the new
people arriving here in Australia, trying to get their first job. so we tried to create this environment
for them, myself and a few friends.And one of the main things that we find out during some
conversations with some of those, those people that used to join our meetups was about, Oh, I
want to get into the cloud space. I want to do something similar to what you do, how can I start or
what, what they need to do. And after a few conversations with other friends, we decided to create
a DevOps Academy, Which we believe that would help this kind of, path into the cloud.Right? So,
what we did is just create some contents, some labs and, and we pretty much just started with our
own community, from Brazil. So. Because it was a pilot, we were trying to be conservative and try to
stay in a, in a bubble where we felt more comfortable, let's say this way. So we just did a first session
with them.It was, eight classes, during the course of, 16 weeks, and went pretty well. So we just, It
starts to do that for anyone that was interested in the second run. So, it's, it's basically, classes that
we teach some of the main concepts of cloud and also some technology that we believe it's
important for someone to know when they want to go into, into the class based something like git,
infrastructure as code, containers, shell ICD process. so we just create some, some around some
things around that. Right. so it's, it's pretty nice because people can learn pretty well. We got people
that, got some certifications or according to the cloud space with a new job or got promoted in their
job to a dev ops position.So. I think it went pretty well. And, the numbers that we have in their
repository are pretty amazing. and, and I think it went pretty well. Well, yeah, it's great because I
think that when you try to teach something, it is a very good way to learn as well, because you try to
discover new things. People do questions that you will have no idea that someone will think
about.So you, you ended up. Researching and find out. So it's been an amazing thing to do.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/p8dqriPADRk

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 Gerhard - Director of Talent
Gerhard: My name is Gerhard Schweinitz, I am the director of talent for a consulting company by
the name of Contino. We specialise in cloud consulting and my job is to try to find the best talent
across the APAC region.

UNSW Cloud: We noticed that you studied Bachelor of Law/Commerce, how did you transition
into the cloud and what were your motivations to do so?

Gerhard: I’ve always been very passionate about technology and when I first chose what I wanted
to study, I didn’t really know what I wanted in life. I was 17 years old, law seems pretty cool, so I
chose it. Once i graduated, I went to do a legal placement at Parramatta Community Legal
Centre, and I realised I probably should've studied something more technology focused and
someone gave me the idea of getting into recruitment and I did that, specifically I chose the
technology space in recruitment, I didn't actually have to have a technical degree to get that
because from a recruitment perspective, at that time they were looking for grads who were
confident that could sell and so I took that job and along the way i did a lot of study, I went and
did some AWS certifications to get across the technology, I built my own websites. I feel like you
need to be somewhat technical and have a little bit of technical credibility to be relatable to the
people you are talking to, and to the candidates you are meeting so that. And then i moved into
the consulting space for Strut Digital, which is also a cloud consulting organisation. Then I led the
recruitment for amaysim, which is a phone company, but it's all cloud based environment and
then I actually was the first employee at contino, in APAC, and my job was to help find everyone
else and now were at 150 in APAC, so when I started that was just me, that was my journey.
Along the way I've learnt cloud.

UNSW Cloud: What are some misconceptions that people have that you think that are actually
not true, in terms of applying for a job?

Gerhard: Essentially, people put a high focus on masters, or in getting phD’s or things in this
nature, I’m not saying don’t do that, great, if you want to do it, go for it, it will help you get your
first job, but if you want to move particularly into the cloud space, you’re probably better off
doing cloud specific training (Note that after the interview he said it’s best however to do both)
https://acloudguru.com and cloud specific certification. For example, you can go to Cloud Guru,
which is a platform that allows you to practice cloud then at the end you can go sit for your AWS
certificate. Most of the cloud education platforms have certification pathways and courses that
are aligned to certifications.

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UNSW Cloud: Tips and tricks for students?

Gerhard: Let me put on the shoes of the grad, who doesn't have much commercial experience, i
feel that it is important to build your own lab at home, get your AWS or google or Azure,
whichever cloud that floats your boat, have your own lab, have your own projects and actually cut
your teeth in a cloud project. I dont think its just enough to learn the theory, you do need to
practice and I feel that a lot of people have done cloud projects but don't put it on their cv - you
should, it is hands on experience. You can try to go after team initiatives you want to build, any
projects that you want to work on for free or even small businesses especially after covid, and
say hey I want to help you out and donate some of my time and help you build a modern website
on a modern cloud platform and set it up for you for free. I’m sure that would give you a very
good case study or a very good reference, you can use it to get your hands dirty, stuck into a
project, you can get some real experience and its a cool story to say in an interview - I helped
someone up during covid, I set up their platform, I know all of the amazon inside out, I got ⅔
certs. You can tell a story and what I would do is you need to sort of be creative in your
application, it probably is not enough to put your cv everywhere and expect a phone call,
unfortunately, not always that easy just cause it is competitive out there you do need to stand
out, it is important you invest in a solid linkedin page, make it your linkedin very presentable. I
think the new generation is very good with cameras so get a good high resolution professional
looking pic on your LinkedIn - not a Tinder pic! - a professional pic and make sure everything, all
your home projects, certifications, all of your hands on laboratory experience document it in that
profile, and I would actually invest in a LinkedIn premium account. Probably only costs you
$30/month, handy when you're on the job market, if it lands you a good job it's worth it, what I
would do is I would try to connect with all the hiring managers directly. The reason why premium
is good is if they don’t connect, you can send them an in-mail so if you don't connect, you can still
send them a message. What I would do is I would target the hiring manager of the job advertised.
So as an example, let's say Contino is hiring, we have an ad and “oh Gerhard is the hiring person!”
or the director of technology might actually be the real hiring manager probably, i'm just the
middle gate, probably bypass me and go directly to the director of technology and send them a
message, a personal message saying “hey, I've done research onto contino, you've done some
cool stuff, i've done abcd i feel like i can add a lot of value, I would love 20 minutes of your time to
go through my experience,” more often than not, they will reply, often yes, or they will hook you
up with someone in the talent team, or, its very rare they’ll just ghost you, you'll have a
conversation with them, or they might say you're not suitable, but if they say that, then at least
they’ll give you some feedback, and at least you’ll get some engagement, but more often than
not, you’re on their map, most people are quite nice and most people are quite giving people
and it can be an opportunity. The reality is that they are very smashed throughout the day, and
they don't have time and a recruiter only has a limited time too and they put in the best profiles,
they don't really know you, they aren't going to fight for you because they don't know you so your
job is to make them know you and make them fight for you. Don't be discouraged, keep trying,
but putting your CV for a job is not enough, you have to build network, you have to build
connections, you have to attend meetups, put your name out there and get into the community
and go to aws events, get their certs, go to their events etc and they will help you.

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UNSW Cloud: How about first years and second year students, are there any entry-level
projects they should be working on?

Gerhard: That’s the perfect opportunity to do things on the side, because your full time is
study and your part time side project is your passion, it's a great opportunity, if your a first
year and it's a four year degree, if you do a little bit then by the end of the 4 years you're
gonna be great. Where to start? I would start, again platforms called cloud guru, they have
playground accounts with tutorials so you can start getting your hands dirty on these
playground accounts to get familiar, but then what I would do is, build your own website for
yourself, whatever website you want and run it on cloud and play with it, experiment, do
things on it you want to practice, there's no pressure of ruining anyones environment
because it’s your own thing. In terms of project, everyone has a family friend who runs a
business, maybe you can get paid for it, do some consulting to your family friend. Do some
small project first, see if they have some type of business or what not and start there.

UNSW Cloud: What advice would you give to hsc students?

Gerhard: Before making a long term commitment at university, studying a degree, that on paper
you think aligns with what you want to do. Have a think about when you graduate, if there's
gonna be jobs in that field because the worst thing you’re gonna do is study 4 years, 5 years later
and realise that it's very difficult to get a job in that space. The landscape is beyond that and
we’re living in a different world and i think technology is a very safe bet, if you go on seek and
LinkedIn, there is thousands of jobs in software, cloud, devops, it's a very safe area to go. Just
because a subject might be exciting, doesn’t mean there’s jobs in that field, I don't know, you
should go on seek, it takes 5 minutes to look at all the jobs associated with it. Go on payscale,
have a look at how much those jobs get paid because you might study 6 years and it's a job that
gets paid half as much as a technologist. I know technologists that work at Contino who get paid
more than doctors and lawyers, so have an investigation before commiting to a long journey. But
if you really want to do something, and your heart is set on it, go for it.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/fR7ttRrC1Dw

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 Simone - Cloud Lead
Simone: I have worked in IT since the 90s, the first operating system that I had to support as a
system administrator was Windows 95. I started out working for education and then went to
different corporates where I did a bunch of different corporate positions in lots of different
industries.

Unsw Cloud: What about your pathway? How did you get started from where you are right now?

Simone: Actually at high school,I wanted to be a chef or an artist or something and I also wanted
a job. So I took a job, working for Education Queensland as an IT support person, I’d never
considered it, but my teacher recommended it to me though. From there, I realised I had a
propensity for pulling apart stuff and fixing stuff, everyone had physical hardware back in that
day, so you had to fix servers, and I quite enjoyed how it all worked, the pulling it all apart and
putting it back together. The networking is actually someone like me, who’s super organised and
likes things to look really neat.It’s really quite good because I make everything look really neat
and tidy and automated. So I stuck with IT. And then I applied for corporate jobs worked for
training organisation. So I did a bunch of certificates. Because I could for free, and then I just
kept, I guess, just kept jumping from position to position and building my expertise.

Unsw Cloud: We have noticed you have been in the tech industry since the late 90s.So how have
you been updated with the current rapid evolvement of technology?

Simone: It's actually quite easy because Microsoft, for example, would bring out a product like
exchange and it would stay the same for three years. So every couple of years you have to
rapidly learn a new product but then it stayed the same. So it's actually not the worst. You still
have to learn, but it was a lot slower pace. Then I started doing consulting and cloud was a thing.
And at first I was really stressed thinking and having to learn all this stuff in it. You know, each
cloud has a million services and they change every day. It's just impossible. And then, I realize it's
less about knowing everything, about everything and more just understanding where to look. So
whenever I go to a client, usually when it's something I'm not super aware of, I know where to
look for that information and I know what people to reach out to to get help. It's not about
knowing it. So I don't try to know everything about everything. I just try to understand good
practice. I try to stay on top of security a little bit because there's big consequences, if you get
that wrong and the rest of the stuff, I just try to sort of try to know where to look for it.

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UNSW Cloud: Can you tell us a bit more about being a Cloud Lead, what does your role
encompass and how does the role of a lead differ from one company to another?

Simone: I guess the cloud is essentially just a consulting role, at a more senior level. So I've been
called lots of things, solutions, architect, whatever, essentially consulting. So your job is to go to a
client and understand their problem, not what they want to deploy or what they think they need,
but their problem and deploy a solution that solves the problem and then confirm that solves
the problem at the end. So provide value to the customer. Listen to them dig deep into the
actual issue that having, so you might say, oh, I need this thing, but when I dig down, really the
problem is somewhere else. So I solve that problem and then everybody gets really good results
or the cloud leads job. So the engineering is below the cloud lead on the hierarchy, I guess, more
hands on, so they do a lot more just coding and doing hands on stuff whereas, the cloud lead or
solutions architect type role, you're expected to do a lot of people stuff, so you need to do run a
lot of workshops and meet with executives and help with pre-sales and, you know, all the people
consulting type stuff. And you get still a hands on stuff, but less than you would if you're purely
an engineer.

UNSW Cloud: Looking back, when you just started in the role of a lead or doing consulting overall,
what are the main challenges? And if you were to recommend students to dive into the field of
study of becoming a lead, what advice would you give them?

Simone: My best advice that I've given, early, was by a few of my friends who run big companies
and they said, I understand business like study business. So I did a business degree in a
marketing degree not IT. They said, I can teach anyone IT skills. I can just teach them that. And
that changes every day about the value and someone who understands the business as a whole,
that's really served me well. So that's given me an edge in my industry. I can say, I understand it's
not what anyone cares about outside of it, really. They just want it to work. And I can be
empathetic about that. Their job is just as important to them as mine is. So I think that's my best
advice is to go forward with empathy and trying to solve this problem and understand that they
don't care about IT like you do, just like when you go to a mechanic, he doesn't make you feel
small or bad for not understanding. You just want him to make it work and take your money and
go away. And that's the same.One of the challenges, that was the challenge going from corporate
to consulting? When you're in corporate, you have admin rights and, I mean, you can access
everything you want and everything is very certain when you go to consulting, there's a lot of
challenges around managing people and expectations and clients not being happy and people
you don't know and having to rapidly meet lots of new people and form relationships where they
trust you to do the best thing for them. And when you’re in the corporate, the scene I get is fairly
stagnant, so you have tons of money to do new projects every day you'll do a project and then let
it get down and move on. Whereas when you're consulting, you'll jump. Project completed ,next
project, you have to quickly familiarize yourself with the new environment, a new group of
people, and stuff. I don't find that super challenging, but I guess, I actually find consulting nicer
than being in the corporate, because people listen to you a little bit more.

26
UNSW Cloud: Is there any final advice you would like to give for students, tips and tricks about
interviews applications or what they should be doing as current students?

Simone: For your interview interviews, my best tip is to just fake confidence, people intrinsically
like you, if you're confident and I know that it's hard to be, but there's some really basic cognitive
behavioural things you can do, like before interview, standing up and taking up a lot of space and
it tricks ypur brain to feeling better. Don't sit there and be on your phone because your body
thinks you're in danger. Just take up the space and don't apologise. And I don't feel bad about
saying I don't know something. So if I go on an interview and they say, do you know this thing? I
say, no, but I can learn so, so they'll quickly know if you lie so don't lie, just say, I don't know but
I'm a fast learner or I've done something similar. It makes people trust you and they know that
you will go and learn it and you can show them that you're fast learner. But it's better than
saying, oh yeah, yeah, I everything because trust me, when you're interviewing people like that,
you know that don't. You don't want them in your team because you know they won't come to
you if they get stuck. So interviews, that's my tip, I guess so any other type of trick I have is to
really be careful with your social platforms. So when you go for jobs, people will look you up and
they will search you. It's not hard to create email aliases and different usernames and don't use
your same photo on LinkedIn or ever and I like to have a separate persona online. I tell high
school students that a lot because when you're young, socially in school, you think, you can't buy
that stuff, but the last thing you want an employee to see in 10 years time is you like chugging
beers at a party or something when they look you up. So think about that. It might not matter
now, but one day it will matter. So just separate and have a fake name online and put all the stuff
up there that you want, but someone will find it and it will be annoying, trust me. So that's what I
tell high school kids especially that helpful.

UNSW Cloud: How would those in their final year studying a non-technical degree dive into
cloud?

Simone: So that's a good question. And I, I do that as well for me, the industry certs are really
what people look for. So it's good to have a degree and it really doesn't matter. I think what it's
saying, people just like to see that you can study and you have discipline or whatever, at a certain
point people won't consider you unless you have some higher education for jobs or don't know
why, it is what it is. But in my opinion, doing the technical search for whatever tech you're
interested in. So if you're in cloud and say you're in marketing, you might look at something like
data or graphic design or something you can do industry certs it takes like a week or two, you can
study them online, you can get do the exam online, and those certificates can line up on your
LinkedIn. If you fail, then we just go do the test again. It's not the end of the world they cost
around $200. Yeah, and they give you certifications in IT, and also, there's a bunch of sort of intro
ones, so Amazon, Microsoft have all in technical certs that are more understanding the sales side
and just what the product does so you can talk about it. So if you didn't want to be hands on IT,
and I tell you what, say you want to do a project management or consulting or something like
that, you understand what products would solve the problem if you don't know how to use it, you
know what needs to happen at the end of the day so you can work with the team.

27
UNSW Cloud: We would assume you would be running teams of different consultants and stuff, if
if you are to recruit for cloud consulting, a graduate, what criteria would you try to look for in the
graduates?

Simone: Me personally, when I've hired junior staff in my team, I look for people have a good
attitude. You can learn quickly and who is nice to be around because it's quite stressful
sometimes, I need people who can handle that stress. So I'm looking for people who I can laugh
instead of cry when things are stressful, people that are keen to learn, people that are open to
suggestions. The last thing you want is someone who's set in their ways and doesn't want to
learn the ways of whatever company you're working for. And I think the best skill you can have on
IT and a lot of IT people probably don't value it, but it's really important is communication. So
understanding, listening to people, understanding their actual problem if they're screaming at
you or they're being nice, still listen to empathy and solve their problems so communicating,
people love it when you update them on what you're doing and you understand that they don't
understand and you put it in English words, not jargon. That stuff gets you're a long way, in my
opinion.

UNSW Cloud: Within the rule itself of and how much technical skills do you think that's required
for the role?

Simone: I guess at a more senior level, you could have less technical skill and more just a good
understanding of everything, because, in the teams I work in now, everybody's a specialist at
what they do. So if I need someone to do something crazy or Linux or containers, I could go learn
it or I could just ask them to help me and they be working in the team. So it's much more efficient
to take advantage of their knowledge and get them to help you because they're an expert at that.
So I guess it's super important to understand what you're talking about. So when a client says, I
need this, I need this, you don't just use this one thing that you know. You know how they say
when you're a builder or something, every solution looks like a hammer or something like that.
You want to be that guy. You want to have a good understanding of what's out there, even if you
don't know the intricacies of it, you want to understand how it all sort of sticks together so that
you can suggest good solutions. But I think by the time you got to consults on a cloud lead,
you're going to have garnered some experience, so you would be there anyway.

Link to video: https://youtu.be/0_rhGQDxVks

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JM - Distinguished Technologist
JM: My name is John Manual Becker, but everybody calls me JM, I’m a distinguished technologist,
which is a new title in my company. I work for Contino, which is a consulting firm specialised in
transformation and Cloud [computing]. I’m sure that you can understand from my accent, I came
22 years ago [to] Australia and start[ed] a career in IT.

Unsw Cloud: We noticed that you moved from an accounting background to IT, what inspired you
to move to a cloud [computing] related career and how did you do so?

JM: So, it was a long journey, I’m not fresh off uni like you guys, so I studied as an accountant, I did
a career first in IT, probably when I first started was quite small. My first computer [was] just
(indecipherable), that gives you a time, it was the first PC. Then very quickly I [became] passionate
about IT and at uni I was doing stuff in the lab, so I really liked it but you know you need a job and
so accounting was there and I did it 2 years after the year 12 over there and then I did a masters
in accounting and technology and then did the CA or Charters of accounting degree and I did
[an] internship and then became a chartered accountant. But I knew very quickly that IT was my
passion and I was doing okay with accounting; I was working for a small firm which specialised in
mercer GST and stuff like that, but I was still study[ing] networks in my office and helped with
computers and setting up new printers and so [I] was [always interested in the field of IT]. [At]
the beginning it was with NT4 all the time and windows 3.1 so it [has] dated a bit. I decided to
change my career and come to Australia and migrate [to] start a career in IT because I found
Sydney for example which has nice beaches and a nice lifestyle and having large companies, big
buildings I could work in IT there, so I looked at the immigration process. With my accounting
degree, my age at the time and my English level, I was able to get a full VISA for migrating here.
So, I came in ’98 and I start my career in IT [however] all my degrees were [from] France at the
time, which wasn’t really helpful. So, I did the Microsoft certified engineer [program] which was
four-five exams at the time, and I became Microsoft certified for network administration. I joined
a small company which was just new, and we were doing online testing in Australia. Very quickly
they gave me more responsibilities, so I started [with] three or four services I had to take care of
and then we opened an office in Japan, three offices in China and so I started doing VPN and
networking, [also] a couple of offices in India. It was the year 2000 where IT was really growing
quickly. So very quickly I had more responsibilities and became [an] IT manager and took on
another office in Melbourne and kept growing my career. I stayed 15 years with that company
and evolved from network admin. We were embracing new technologies, using citrix, VMware
using netapp and all these traditional apps in IT. It was probably in 2003, [when] I realised Cloud
was coming and we had to change the direction of what we were doing, so a couple of years
after, I did a degree in IT, and then very quickly I [began to] enjoy [working in] cloud.
(unintelligible) Cloud was the future, so I redesigned by career [focusing] on cloud. I [began]
moving to [gaining] more [cloud] certifications.

29
What served me was [my] certification in Microsoft to get a job here in Australia, to get some
credentials in English off exams. It also [drove] me to getting more certifications with AWS to be
able to get some [more] credentials to pass the door of recruitment and get some jobs in the IT
[industry]. [Allowing me] to build my knowledge and confidence with the department to become
better. So that was my pathway to where I am now. So, I joined Nebulr after a while, a consulting
firm, doing exclusively cloud [work], so using only cloud products, we didn’t have any servers, and
then I moved to a full consultant position and then principle consultant, director cloud and now a
distinguished technologist which is the highest achievement you can get in the industry at the
moment. So, I am very excited about that.

UNSW Cloud: Thanks John for all the background. [It is] so interesting to see how you have
moved to so many places. So why do you think, if say we have students, [who] are also in
accounting or in other fields like humanities or even myself I am actually in aviation and wanting
to move into the cloud [industry]. What advice would you give students like that?

JM: well technology is running with everything right? Any industry today is running with [the]
technology area is going to get disrupted and a technology company is going to have to come. I
guess, like you said there is a lot of technology and probably the radar everybody is using in the
70’s is not the same today right? They are all based on probably software and technology. …
Cloud is the enabler for that [technological side of every industry] and you don’t have to buy any
CapEx, you don’t have to invest in any services, you can build it very quickly and then see the
market demand. So that’s why I think cloud is going to touch every industry. Now with cloud you
can do AR, you can do machine learning, this is something that wasn’t possible 5 years ago
because it was just too expensive to run. Even quantum computers exist today, [they’re] not very
powerful, but they exist, and we realised you can rent one for a couple of hours and have fun
with it. A real quantum computer cost $15 million to buy; you can buy them for a couple of
dollars for an hour. So, it has changed completely the way we use computing and technology.
The share model is, I think, very fantastic and very exciting. So, moving from accounting to IT, just
follow your passion, what you like to do every day so it’s not looking like a job and [something]
you want to learn. You still need to learn every day, just because you have a degree, or you arise
to a certain position you rest. Technology is always changing, so you need to keep learning and
improving yourself all the time. So, it’s not because you have a degree you can get stuck, I think
every [person] I think especially in your age bracket might have three or four careers in their
lives. In my young age I was a [incomprehensible speech] instructor and then I became an
accountant and I did IT and managing people and now I’m a consultant and working with a
smaller team and agile people in the cloud space and I might do something else later, I don’t
know.

UNSW Cloud: Very exciting. I think it’s good to know that we are not in a square box where it is
the only path we are going to go.

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JM: That was probably what it was like20 years ago for our parents but like today they can really
change, like what happened with COVID, it has changed so many industries with the way they
deliver, and the cloud is there to help. You can build an industry on the cloud; you know
hundreds of machines virtually and have people using virtual communication and sharing very
quickly. It wasn’t even possible 5 years ago.

UNSW Cloud: JM, we also know that you hold almost every AWS certification,

JM: no not all, at one stage I did have them all I was the first 500 to have the professional
certification in the world and [had] all 5 at the time. Later, it became 7 and now I think there are
12 of it. In my world I keep learning and refreshing these certifications, I need to do that next
year, I think.

I am learning all the clouds at the moment to have a different view on customer demand on
cloud. It was quite the journey, you learn a lot, the only thing you need, obviously you need
experience, play with the platform but it will really help [if] you understand the mechanism of
how cloud works, he security and you need to keep up to date. AWS released over 2000
announcements last year and more again [this year] so that’s more than 10 a day so that’s the
business side. I do a podcast with some friends, we review the news every month and it keeps
me up to date [and realise] that I still need to keep learning, looking at the announcements and
what improvements is cheaper and what the better way of designing things are, the new
products coming out…….[which will] change the way you design cloud and how we secure cloud,
so, you need to keep up to date.

UNSW Cloud: so, it is not enough for students to just think, I’m going to AWS get the practitioner
certificate and go find a job. Your advice is that also build a portfolio, play with more things.

JM: Ye, that is correct, so, the practitioner the exam is a good start, but it is really basic but is
more designed for the salespeople to understand cloud. You need to build a bit more than that
and to practice and then you can open a free account on AWS and play around with a couple of
dollars. It’s just not enough, the exam will probably put you towards the job at the time if you
[are] looking for a job, this type of certification will give the interviewer the certainty you did some
learning. It is not enough because it is just an exam with questions and answers, people can work
their way around it. When you start having several [certifications] and you hold it for two years or
three years, then that gives some confidence [to] the employer that you are going to deliver
value.

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A couple of tips for interviews, you need to show your passion and how you love IT, you love
cloud, some questions asked are sometimes what you [do] at home. Do you build your own
computer? Do you play games? or do you have a network or just have a laptop? What are you
doing with computers? Are you showing passion? Very important, don’t lie because we will find
out and it will show, so, if you don’t know something, that’s fine, just say “I don’t know, but I can
learn it”. So, just keep learning and show you can learn new technology. Just knowing c++ o Java
will not get you the job, it’s the first step, but you have to keep showing because you might still
need some [other knowledge]. Don’t just focus on one [coding language], show your passion and
keep learning.

UNSW Cloud: I think that’s amazing. Tips for students to have attitude to keep learning, to keep
improving themselves and keep up to date. Is there anything else you would like to share with
the students?

JM: what served me, and I don’t know if it is a white pass or not but what served me is to be
specialised in something. You know there is three big cloud [platforms], there is GCP, Azure and
AWS. I did become specialised in AWS and I really put all my efforts to it. You wake up early, you
look videos… you read documentations, white papers, you play with it and you become an
expert. That really helped my career, to keep growing. So instead of being a generalogist or
learning a bit of all 3 and evening your bet to think that you might get a job in [either companies],
try to do one really, really [well], be really good at it. Then I think you will have more chances of
finding a job because you are the expert in that niche. Obviously you need to bet right you don’t
want to learn VMware today, even though VMware is very present today, there is still a lot of
industries using it but don’t learn VMware, don’t learn IBM Cloud, it’s not a [prevalent] cloud, it’s
just a couple of services. So, pick one of the three clouds, become really good at it … and then
from there, find a job and build that momentum. In my position now, I need to [learn] more
clouds but I will not give up my knowledge, I still learn and read every day on AWS because I want
to know, I want to keep up to date. That’s very important. That was what served me, not being a
generalogist, but being a specialist in something, instead of being a bit of everything. That’s what
helped me.

Link to full video: https://youtu.be/XGi6VxTyPWA

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