Nuclear Regulatory Commission - Transcript - Telephone Call 12tth May 2012 (Ref 120512.2052a100)

DISCLAIMER Except for the marked redactions for FOIA withholding, this transcript has not been edited
or otherwise reviewed for accuracy by participants or the NRC. It may contain typographical mistakes or other transcription errors.
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Japan's Fukushima Daiichi ET Audio File
Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
(telephone conversations)
Date:
Saturday, March 12, 2011
Work Order No.:
NRC-944
Pages 1-3(
NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC. Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1E SATURDAY MARCH 12, 2011 JAPAN'S FUKUSHIMA DAIICHI ET AUDIO FILE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. DORMAN: Chairman? Yes. Scott Morris and
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. Mike Weber. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Sir, DORMAN:
Dan Dorman,
Okay. a quick synopsis Condo to Mr. of the
message that was sent from Mr. The issue is the unit that's is
Poneman. this the
that Unit 1 at Daiichi, to Oyster Creek,
similar
isolation condenser plant. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. the email, that facility,
process of
Yes. the is information core damage in at the

it
DORMAN: evident
Based on that there
it's
and that they are very recently in

venting the containment, and the --
17
18
makes
that
mention
they are
of the wind direction,

-do not have any
blowing to
at the
sea,
plant,
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
injection
and
cooling
systems
available,
because
of
the loss of power. But they are using anything that they can find, in terms of fire trucks and perhaps, to get water batteries into the
from vehicles, core.
to power pumps,
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Okay,
can
you
give
me
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3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1E 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 email with speculation, it sounds this is perspective, be, just a high level group, email that I can send back to that
summarizing what you said, Just what summarize, it means, so what
again? we the can put into would
concerns
at this point? MALE PARTICIPANT: You know, Chairman,
(inaudible). From my listening to Dan read this email, like they are at least at the stage where
they're taken some mitigative measures -CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE could be ala TMI, PARTICIPANT: where there is Okay. -which, you know, it but
some core damage,
they might be able to stabilize the core. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. But that's strictly
at this point. CHAIRMAN what that I JACZKO: you can Okay, well, give me an saying group
feel respond
comfortable back to that
accurately, with.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: soon as you can.
Yes,
sir. as
And just get me that,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
sir.
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4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 appreciate minutes. this is It very CHAIRMAN doesn't high JACZKO: have to So, be in the next long. of couple Again, what your
very just
level
summary,
thoughts are. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN it. JACZKO: Yes, sir. thank you. I
Okay,
(CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
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5 1 2 3 4 5 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. DORMAN: Good morning, Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN:
How are you? How ar e you,
Good.1 thanks.
sir?
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Good. Dan, I just forwarded
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that information you sent me, it's, at this point, but that it MR. DORMAN: unclear
and just added that this is yet, a
whether
TMI event,
could get there. Okay. And I just wanted to
CHAIRMAN double-back the plane? MR.
JACZKO:
on one issue.
Do we know if
Tony got on
DORMAN:
Yes,
Margie is
here.
So,
she
can give us an update. MS. DOANE: Yes, we just heard.
We just
got confirmation that he is CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Good work. MS. though? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. Jim Trapp team. DOANE: DOANE:
on the plane. Okay, good. Thank you.
Can
ask
you
question,
Yes.
We'll have to keep pushing for to Japan and meet up with the
to also get
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1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 push 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 encourage, contact us. if is, I it. I USAID is but I
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: Okay.
Yes.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: It
Yes. could be a possibility. person, have 10
concerned about having an additional you should work it. You would
said,
very good experts. CHAIRMAN mean,
That's what you want. JACZKO: if it Yes, I think we it should doesn't
doesn't
happen,
happen.
But I think we should push to have them both. MS. DOANE: Okay, and the only other thing because
got the Navy
involved to get dosimetry,
I couldn't verify that they had it. So, there might be duplicative, but I'd
rather have double,
than not. Good, okay. Okay, and any other excellent work.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: Great, JACZKO:
CHAIRMAN things that you know, MR.
at this point? No, sir. Okay, I also did push to to
DORMAN:
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: possible,
to get somebody from NISA,
MR. MS.
DORMAN: DOANE:
Okay. That's good.
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the general You it's know, worth, I in, Center, holding know, if
MR.
DORMAN:
That would be very helpful. So, I so, to that gave them the Ops you know, happen, if they I'm not but do you get
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
as the point of contact, out, you like that can that's let if them going know
some call
that,
they can make
sure
to get it
to the right place. MS. MR. MS. DOANE: DORMAN: DOANE: Right. Okay. The only other regulatory body the NFC. Okay. remember, (inaudible) this, came
that we haven't gone to is
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: So,
and I can't imagine she's involved in CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: Yes.
right?
But her staff, Yes, you you
I don't know. could try again, I it.
CHAIRMAN think if it's
JACZKO: --
know,
think
we can get some accurate information. you know, what we got from Dan
Again, Poneman was more anything
accurate, than
but again, we
not necessarily together at
different
what
had put
this point. So, it was a good confirmation, seemed to be but it -with
parameters
consistent
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8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 really, hour, but and NISA, what we're piecing together from the press reports. MR. MS. DORMAN: DOANE: Yes, Okay, sir. well, we sent a note to
the Midwest 11:30,
our time. Okay. note went to. (inaudible)
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: The
to get with GE Hitachi. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. yes, DOANE: maybe That it Okay. hasn't It's been that long, an
has.
been
over
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
but we haven't --
I don't know. And then, importance or again, of I just having, earlier,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: want to re-emphasize by the the
certainly scenarios
morning,
possibly
run that could help,
just
for the purposes of the scenario because policy. into
of better bounding what the realities are, it and I will be to
think that will be very important difficult probably for a lot of and different put it all
makers, context.
understand
So,
the
more
information
we
have,
the
easier that will be. MR. DORMAN: Yes, sir. And there, again, kind let's of just, sitting
CHAIRMAN you know, while
JACZKO: all
you're
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9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 well, and if around waiting for information, make sure we do if
everything we can, we have to be in MR.
to get information ready for us,
front of the press. DORMAN: Yes, sir. Okay, good. bit All right, of sleep,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
I'm going to try and get a little anything comes up, MR. DORMAN:
don't hesitate to call. Okay. Okay, thanks, everybody.
Thank you. Bye.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
NEAL R. GROSS
10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 think,
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) DAN: MR. DAN: MR. DAN: MR. Are you up, MAMISH: Hello. MAMISH: How are you? How are you? there until about go in, Hey, hello. Dan.
I'm going good. MAMISH: Hey,
I was
7:00 or 8:00 yesterday, if needed,
and I told Margie I'd
after I get some rest. What's the

--
situation
and
what
do
you
you know about
MALE. 11:00.
MR.
PARTICIPANT:
was
there
until
MAMISH:
--
you know,
about whether
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
come in
or not? DAN: Well, at I think I we're think going if to be
briefing in, 6:30, you
the know,
Chairman a little
7:00. before
you came 6:00 or
that,
maybe
get caught up. There is not a lot going So, on, right now.
The sun is much in
setting over there.
we haven't had as
the way of direct contact -MR.

DAN:
MAMISH:
--
Okay.
although we've reached out for
25
it.
So,
I'm
not
sure
that
there
is
going
to be
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11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 corner, a punch list at 4:00. DAN: MALE of All right. PARTICIPANT: things that, She's putting you know, together been Nader, great. DAN: MR. DAN: There you go. MAMISH: Okay. if whole you in lot in the next three hours, that I would drag -here. So,
here for, MALE you
but I think Margie left PARTICIPANT: come in at No,
she's
could
4:00,
that
would be
Hear that? All right, so, I'll be there
MR. MAMISH:
she's
working on,
and you'll need to get through them. MR. MAMISH: Okay, so, Yes. still here. she is there?
MALE PARTICIPANT: DAN: MR. Yes, MAMISH: she is Okay,
can I speak with her? Well, she's in th e --
MALE PARTICIPANT: DAN: MALE tal king to
She's around the corner. PARTICIPANT: the if staff over She's there. aroun I I the
can ask
her to come in here,

MR. DAN:
you want. Could you, please?
MAMISH: So,
have you gotten any sleep?
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1 2
3 4 5. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 analyses TMI,
MR.
MAMISH:
came
home,
ate
and
just
crashed,
away. So,
had
couple
of
beers
and
crashed,
right
I just woke up. DAN: MR. DAN: You fit MAMISH: Are for duty? What? you fit for duty? You're
recorded live. MR. give me a break. DAN: MR. the rad level? DAN: MR. MS. We have no specifics. MAMISH: DOANE: Okay. Hey, Dan. We were talking, All right. MAMISH: So, do we know anything about MAMISH: Just a couple, come on, Dan,
maybe a refresher would be good for some of us. DAN: MALE coming? MS. DOANE: We're getting closer. to NARAC, we we I think Yes, okay. Okay, how are those
PARTICIPANT:
we should be able to send it DAN: you'll want to Okay. look at,
real soon. did -one get thing in, is
22
23 24
Nader, when
didn't
there was a direct communication
from the head of the
25
Japanese
Atomic
Energy
Commission
to
the
Deputy
NEALR. GROSS
13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 items, with mission is -I am not don't Secretary of Energy, a little bit more around midnight, details, in Yes, yes. terms our time, of yes, today, they've rad
been venting levels,
containment.
they've
got high
along those lines, MS. MR. MS. know what, DOANE: MAMISH: DOANE:
Nader? Hey. Okay, all right, in a fit of I
we got Tony Ulses
on the plane with
the USAID mission. MR. MS. MAMISH: DOANE: Okay. They did not know whether they that they know what they're
comfortable
going to do with him. I don't know what the rest of so, the USAID the
doing
when
they
get
there,
like
earthquake guys, So,
they're not reactor guys. I'm constantly on the line with USAID, (inaudible), Okay. So, Tony, I've got a number of open who is on a plane, and okay?
but they really are very MR. MS. MAMISH: DOANE: to
regard
should be landing at LAX in MR. MS. MR. MAMISH: DOANE: MAMISH:
about four hours.
Okay. Okay? Do you want me to hop in my
NEAL R.GROSS
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car,
now
--
MS. MR. a while, now? MS. at four. So, if
DOANE: MAMISH:
No. -because you've been there
DOANE:
Well,
there is
a lot happening
you could get here by four o'clock, I think that would be good. Okay. But our biggest things right I'll
to hear the turnover, MR. MS. now, fill to me -you in,
MAMISH: DOANE:
well, in MR.
you know what?
Go to sleep.
the later session. MAMISH: Well, yes, I mean, four
o'clock let me
is see
essentially the same thing as now,.because how I feel. now. Okay, why I'm to that's fine, you to but this do you is the I'll probably just take a
shower and come in, MS. know what? The
DOANE: reason not
telling be able
because turnover.
they're
going
There is So,
too much,
just too much. stay until here. four So, I'm
I'm going to have to
o'clock, that's fine, if --
because
you would only have Eric So,
I can't just leave Eric. you come in MR. MS. at four o'clock. All right, But if you
you know,
MAMISH: DOANE:
let
me -want to come in
NEAL R.GROSS
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(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. NRC. MR. MORRIS: Yes, Hey, Mark, are you there? DORMAN: Hello, this is Dan Dorman,
MARK: MR. Dan Dorman,
we're on. Hey, Mark. Scott Morris and
MORRIS:
Margie Doane. MARK: Okay, well, listen, I've here. so, that this you got the
IEC,
and I would let MALE
you do the talking, PARTICIPANT: possible,
Hello, we understand
discussion
is,
it's
have some assessment, So, if we are then
which you want to share with us. and take some notes, a file and with
ready to listen on, maybe you
later
can send us
this on an email, MR. MALE our internal look,
would be good. DORMAN: Yes. We will keep this for
PARTICIPANT:
or internal use. So,
We are not going just for our
to distribute this outside. information. MR. is a little DORMAN: rough,
this is
I'm sorry, here, and we
the had
transmission difficulty
understanding that.
MALE
Could you try that again?

Okay, let me
--
PARTICIPANT:
said
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17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 correct, beyond confirm site? MALE this is PARTICIPANT: what we know. Yes, what you told is what the Daiichi vented that assessment, little that we have this discussion, can provide some of the is as we understand it, or some of you your
assessment, situation, take
understanding hear what
and we and
just want to use it for
this
and
notes,
internal purposes here. MR. MORRIS: Yes, we have relatively
information,
and I guess we are hoping that we
can verify basic facts. We're a little bit challenged for an
without good facts. We understand that the Unit 1 at Fukushima
site
has
high
radiation perhaps indications
levels. four of hours
They ago,
have and core
the containment, there is some
possible
damage. Beyond we're facts, that, seeing as we have in the very little facts, Can at IAEA the
media. them,
they
understand
Not more much kind of
information about this. We are asking questions. some answers, but basically, every two or three hours, this is also what we know. We are getting or even more,
NEAL R.GROSS
18 1 Do you have any information on very recent explosions, which was MR. MR. on the media,
--
2
3 4 5
DORMAN: MORRIS:
You'll have to be asking -Yes, we have seen the reports
about the explosion. DORMAN: MORRIS: of an Yes. But we have no verification, explosion or what effect that
MR. 7 8 9 10 no MR. confirmation
may have had. We and would -have had it from would Japan, no direct help us contact to the have facts with NISA, any direct the
11
12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19
confirmation
about
around
conditions at the plant.
Do you have direct contact? Yes, but we we are in are -contact. some
MALE PARTICIPANT: Again, general we are in contact,
asking
information
and getting a bit
some kind of
general answers. So, assessment? maybe at this stage, what is your
Do you have a summary assessment? MR. MS. MR. MORRIS: DOANE: DORMAN: We have -We can't -Yes, without the -having better
20 21
22 23 24 25 if facts, it's
without
difficult MS. DOANE:
to develop a good assessment. But we could do an assessment,
we got the facts.
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2 I 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to -the --
MR.
DORMAN:
Yes. Okay, the that is you correct. know, the
MALE PARTICIPANT: was just thinking now,

lost
about
time,
time,
so,
which is
since they
what,
-I
more than 15 or 20 hours or

mean, since they had the
black-out, by whatever
and then basically, internal you can tell So, means.
they were just cooling You might know better,
the system,
us about this. since the blackpower.
just this huge time, We don't really
out So,
had
occurred.
restoring
what is
your assessment on this? MR. MR. MORRIS: DORMAN: Yes, could you repeat that?
We're having trouble hearing
you. MS. funny, I don't so, it's if DOANE: Yes, I'm sorry, up. It's or if the beat is
really breaking it's the
very loud. it's our
know
microphone
phone.
I'm not sure exactly what's going on. But maybe you can try a different line or
MALE PARTICIPANT: we can call again, connection, MR. MS. DORMAN: DOANE: okay? Okay. Yes. if
Yes,
okay,
look,
let
us
you wish.
Let us try
a different
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Okay,
in
a few minutes,
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(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. you on the line? MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. again. DORMAN: Hi, DOE is DOE. on the line. Dan Dorman, DORMAN: Hey, are you there? DOE, are
This is
I have Dave Bowman on the phone, MALE PARTICIPANT: All
too. so, it's
right,
Dave Bowman and Dave Young?

MR. DORMAN: We're here.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
So,
we've
seen
this that
email that came out from an addressee looks like a fairly dire observation, to figure is, out --
DOE Tokyo,
and we're trying
we're trying to figure out what that
basically. You know the one I'm referring to?
There's one dated with a time stamp of -MALE we have an office PARTICIPANT: in Tokyo, So, and it's I mean, that's --
basically just a
news report that they saw.

So, he -I think he quotes the news
21 22 23
24 25
agency that was making the report. not claiming that to be accurate
So, or
I mean, validated.
we're We
were just passing it

MALE -have you
on.
Are you guys with the
--
PARTICIPANT: any
are you Japanese
had
contact
NEAL R. GROSS
22 1
2
Government or any of the other entities over there?

We're kind in the -in a situation, where
3 4 5 6 7 8
9
we're
getting
the bulk of our
information
from media
outlets. MALE situation.

--
PARTICIPANT:
We're
in
the
same
I actually just talked to someone from our the Japanese Embassy, the same thing, and you
well,
the DOE rep in telling me
know,
he was
--
that they're
not getting
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay.
--
basically,
information from the Japanese. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: All right. So, that's it. We're
just looking for some reliable sources of information, and we're somewhat hopeful that but if No, maybe not, I mean, this was an
indication that you had some, MALE PARTICIPANT: we are working

--
then -we just -measures
with
some
of your protective
people and
21
22
MR.
DORMAN:
Okay.
-we've hadn't had --
MALE PARTICIPANT:
23 24 25
MR.
DORMAN:
Fair enough. That's all we've had.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. DORMAN:
All right.
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23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hear out. MS. DOANE: Yes, so, we got caught in the have point that's that and it are MS. DOANE: Let us know about IAEA,
because I told them that IAEA was on the line. MALE PARTICIPANT: is, Okay, yes, I guess the
being made struggling
there's a lot of entities some quality information,
to get
really hasn't been forthcoming. So, everybody is sort of looking for a way
to get information. MS. DOANE: I think the only update touch with -that
we got from IAEA is
that they are in NISA. NISA,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MS. information, DOANE: isn't --
but how clear, if
they don't they're in
exactly
touch with NISA. MALE PARTICIPANT: MS. DOANE: No.

--
That's just not
I mean --
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Maybe Mark can help us
middle of that call. MALE something, let MR. MALE PARTICIPANT: we'll us know. DORMAN: Absolutely. All right, thanks a let you All right, know. well, If you if we hear
something,
PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
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1
2
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS OFFICER: and others from Vienna calling Gentlemen, again. Is Mark Shafer I'm going that okay? to
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
put them directly on the conference. MR. MALE up. DORMAN: Yes. Mark,
are you there? still coming
PARTICIPANT:
They're
Here they are. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. SHAFER: Thank you. Hey., Mark.
Good morning. Good morning. That is
MALE PARTICIPANT: a better connection. OPERATIONS OFFICER: MALE PARTICIPANT: you. MALE the table here, MR. MALE emergency center. MALE PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
Can you hear them now? Yes, much better, thank
Okay,
we're all
around
just to know who we are talking to. SHAFER: This is Mark Shafer. (Inaudible) from the
PARTICIPANT:
This
is
from
the
Department of Nuclear Energy. MALE has got some PARTICIPANT: for Okay, you. (inaudible) I mean, here some
information
information and then --
please.
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
(inaudible)
NEAL R.GROSS
26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 useful, same this? using some have is already asked this question. We received some that
information last evening, the -there was no
eight o'clock our time, supply and no
offsite
diesel
generators. Do you have any idea in how they could
survive and what they could do, MR. that DORMAN: they have Yes, been
this situation?
the information that we using portable power
supplies from trucks and other sources. very their power specific powering -the information, with pumps, that, and and where where we
We don't have know getting getting what the the
don't
they're they're
water from. But very we have had reports that they of are
unconventional
sources
power,
whatever they can get. MALE information. Of course, the U.S., MR. MALE PARTICIPANT: Have you Yes, we received similar the to
had anything
not this magnitude,
but any similar
event in
with these type of plants? Nothing like this. Okay, not at all? I
DORMAN:
PARTICIPANT:
was just wondering. FEMALE anything PARTICIPANT: which by your And it would could be be
assessment,
NEAL R.GROSS
27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 easy, short. MALE technical, not

--
useful,
any information of these situations, MR. DORMAN: Now,
anything.
I think we're struggling to come up
to put reasonable definitions of the event, with a reasonable assessment. I think it get some direct
would be very helpful to us, from NISA or someone you
to in
information direct
Japan,
that has
information,
and if
could
assist us in
getting contact with them -MALE PARTICIPANT: that. Okay, that's fine. of
Let's try to maintain questions it, for us, to us, very,
Can you build a list
very easy questions, as we completed
and send the other
please
just
questions? MALE PARTICIPANT: Very simply ones, very
PARTICIPANT: because this is
Very --
simple,
very
17
18 1 20 21
they will not get
into detail.
Do you hear us? MR. DORMAN: Yes, we hear you. Yes, I
guess our preference would be to convey those to NISA. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. the facts, DORMAN: Right.
--
22
23 24 25
But then we
once we have
then we would be happy to work with you on
an assessment. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, what I am
NEAL R.GROSS
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28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 make its is way them. They is question. MR. DORMAN: I think what we'd like to do available to NISA, at their 'mute' please. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. DORMAN: Okay. going to put you on suggesting cannot these say is, that we we look at the questions, get anything, from our but we we try -try and I
to have we see
questions
coming
behalf,
what answers we get, MR.
and --
hello? hold on, just a minute,
DORMAN:
Yes,
We're
for just a minute. {Break in audio} Okay, I don't know the
MALE PARTICIPANT:
to just make ourselves
convenience. We're a little have a lot bit on cautious of distracting their plate, but if you
could make it
known to them,
that we're standing by if
they need assistance, I think
then that would be helpful. the other point I would like to on
that there is to a Japan, member we of
a team of assistants that is from our get, the United and States, any
which
includes facts
staff, that
additional to clarify would be
that
could
would help
for him,
the situation
that he's going
into
NEAL R.GROSS
29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12
very helpful to us. Anything that you can do to help convey
that to NISA would be appreciated. MALE PARTICIPANT: what you are saying is Japanese counterparts? MR. We're DORMAN: an Yes, it's that not the NRC's team. is led out of our Okay, was this team --
that these
are negotiated with
supporting
effort
State Department. MALE composition

operators
PARTICIPANT: the team?

or --
Okay, These
can are
we
ask
the or
of
designers
traveling
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 counterpart anything. okay, as of okay.
MR.
DORMAN:
No,
it's
more
search
and
rescue and disaster relief. MALE Okay, PARTICIPANT: look, Search is, and rescue,
what we do
we take this these offers these all
an offer both
from you,
and we record all and we
potential
assistance
keep
(inaudible) but we take you,
as an offer,
now.
We take note of this and we have asked the in Japan to let us know if they need
Up to now, to our offer,
they didn't
say
'no'
or
'yes'
but because they are so busy.
But once then we
they will say that they would need something,
NEAL R.GROSS
30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Thank you. is Thank you. MALE what we'll do, PARTICIPANT: Okay. Okay, so, this interruption
--
this possibility is
to be,
for sure,
assistance for
them. MR. for DORMAN: the last I'm sorry, we had you an just
minute.
Could
repeat that last part? MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes, I said that we
take your offer as an offer of assistance,
and we put and
this on top of some other offers we have received, I was saying if that we already asked to let the
Japanese and
counterpart up to now,
they need anything,
us know,
they did not answer that. But as soon as they answer and they
formulate a request, MR.
we will consider your offer. That would be terrific.
DORMAN:
we'll just take your offer, website. information If to
continue
to watch our more, now, So, if we
(inaudible) have more
we have to post post, I think
we are waiting for some answers to our questions. this is it MR. for now, DORMAN: okay? Yes, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
31
MR.
DORMAN:
All right. Thank you.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2]
NEAL R.GROSS

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
vww.nealrgross.com
32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reporting. worse, an the TV, (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS you're on the line. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Okay. Chairman. OFFICER: Chairman Jaczko,
Good morning,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Sir,
Good morning. we're watching videos on like a detonation of the
that show what looks
Unit 1 reactor building at Daiichi. It's explosion, an initial followed by short duration pulse, a large cloud, and like then
there is to be
some subsequent footage, frames of
showing what appears that -the upper
the
the building
walls around the -above the
what would be the metal frame work its been opened up to the
refueling level,
eye beams. So, this is our significant breaking
that you asked us to call you. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: just -Okay.
We have not gotten any direct we're still but it is working off of
We're
what we got on the media, image.

CHAIRMAN
a very disturbing
JACZKO:
What
would
you
--
how
would you characterize that?
What does it
mean?
NEAL R.GROSS
33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 confirmation, quickly. note that just, MR. DORMAN: that it's Well, what we're inferring failure of
from that image is
a catastrophic
the primary containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE pressure PARTICIPANT: finally anymore. Okay. We had reports that if the got to Okay. It the looks point like where it's it
couldn't hold it
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE they were venting you go to Fox PARTICIPANT: it,
but the images, you can --
like I said, looping
News,
they're
image. MR. NISA DORMAN: reported Sir, to I've just been handed a explosion in the
IAEA an
reactor building. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: So, Okay, okay, let's --
no further information. Okay, can, let's get that
CHAIRMAN information out as the Federal family. MR.
JACZKO:
quickly as we
to the rest of
DORMAN:
Yes,
sir. Okay, and give me
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
when you've done that, accurate
but let's but
do that get that
Again,
information,
distributed.
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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34 MR. DORMAN: Yes, sir. Okay, thank you. At
CHAIRMAN this point, again,
JACZKO:
we probably need to be prepared -means.

-running the
we'll need to be prepared for what it

How are, we doing on the
analyses and various scenarios? MR. DORMAN: We have results for the 10
percent unfiltered
release,
and the 40 percent,
which
would be the more comparable to TMI. We'll have to take a look at what we might assess out of the images that we're seeing here. TMI scenario is a higher source term, but still The based
on a leakage of containment. Based

television, that is
on
--
what
we're
--
we're
we don't
seeing
on
the
know where we
are,
in
terms *of
extent
to
core to
damage, be
but
the more
containment
function
appears
much
significantly degraded,
based on what we're viewing. Okay. work on what as a basis we might for that
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. assess, what DORMAN: we might
We'll use
assessment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: emphasis on scenarios Okay, yes, let's put our to
that are now more comparable
what we know.
NEAL R.GROSS
35 1 2 3 4 5
(CONFERENCE
MR.
DORMAN:
Yes,
sir. Okay, thanks.
All right.
CALL CONCLUDED)
E
8
I0
12 13 14 15
1E
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
36 1 2 3 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. HUFFMAN: This is I have Bill Huffman of the from
NRC Operations Center.
4
5 6 7 8
the
that would like to come up on the ET.

MALE PARTICIPANT: All right, bring him
on. MR. MR. headquarters HUFFMAN: MORRIS: Okay. This is Scott Morris in the
operations center here at the NRC. MR. HUFFMAN: Wait one second, Scott.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17
He's coming up now. MR. MORRIS: Okay.
MR.
HUFFMAN: on the
All bridge
right, the NRC
,
team.
* *
executive
I'm
you're
Okay,
yes,
from
coordinating a --
and
was
just
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
or passing onto the spot commentary
we had just written for our people. here. Apparently, was our -the item that caught interest
the information we had on the explosion at 1 unit. Okay. According to what we got
the Fukushima No. MR.
MORRIS:
from REUTERS was that the explosion
involved hydrogen
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgoss.com v
37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 to indicate explosion therefore, which and caused the collapse building. We also saw a video, which indicated itself -of the roof and walls of the
showed to us,
that the reactor
building
looked undamaged. Our conclusion of hydrogen in is the that it probably was an building, and
generator
would not probably have an direct impact on
the primary safety of the reactor. MR. MORRIS: the Do you have video reactor building that seems isn't
that
itself
damaged,
but rather,
13
14
15
the turbine building?
We have a video that shows
the explosion,
MR.
itself.
MORRIS: Yes, we do
--
I mean,
we're
watching a loop on Fox News,
right now.
17
18 19 20 21 22 23 building itself collapsed, two facts. One, but
All right,
and the rector
does not look like the walls and roof the Reuters report, said that -said
that
it
involved
hydrogen,
and
two,
that the walls and roof collapsed. MR. MORRIS:
24
25
All right.
So,
we
think that
since
rather
the video does not show the generator building,
NEAL R.GROSS
38 1 2 3 4 5 struggling building images, gone, -and it comes -that it's more likely than not, that the
explosion involved the generator building, the reactor itself. MR. with MORRIS: that, I guess, we're the I
rather than
mean, looking
we're at a
because at the
6
7 8
9
we're looks
looking like
post-explosion building is
reactor
but for the eye beam frames.
Okay.
MALE PARTICIPANT: I don't know which one
10
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
is
the reactor building.

MALE PARTICIPANT: The reactor building is
the square taller MALE structures building. MR. that's report? been -that
one. PARTICIPANT: you see are -The four the distinct reactor
would be
MORRIS: you
Yes,
okay, that
but you said that news
derived
from a Reuters
Yes,
update report. MR. MORRIS: Okay.
it
was a Reuters live
So,
that. media. I would assume I've seen it
I mean,
you should see
that would be out on the other
on other media --
NEAL R.GROSS
39 1 MALE PARTICIPANT:
2
3 4 5 6 7 8 put up our that's
We have.
-yes.
except
there,
but
the one place,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. MORRIS: into But DHS.
Okay. we're So, getting we were ready to
SITREP
actually
thinking it system itself,
was probably a -which contains,
part of the containment you know, pressure --
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 MR. MORRIS: MR. MORRIS: --
Right.
from the reactor, and it
appeared to us, know, this. again, it's
to be more of a containment, hard to say,
but
you
when you're looking at
It know, the hydrogen could, of
is,
and of course, be a
you
course,
hydrogen
explosion from zirconium reaction. So, we were seeing I can't rule it on the it video out, that but based on what I saw, and the
solution of hydrogen,
be -more likely
seemed like it
was likely to
to be a generator event.
MR.
MORRIS:
All
right,
well,
I mean,
guess we won't know,
until we know. Right.

But appreciate the -I mean,
25
at this point,
it's
all
unconfirmed.
NEAL R.GROSS
I think, dealing with

information here, MR. MORRIS:
40 Right, second I mean, and

it
we're all, third hand
2
3
that doesn't seem --
seems to be
4
5
conflicting in a lot of times.

And the hydrogen -and it's
6
7 8
been
a while
since
in
I've
the seem
thought about this,

turbine to have
--
but
the
I
hydrogen should
present
the
--
generator, the --
say,
doesn't
be
have
9 10
11
enough volume to create

witnessed on the --
the kind of explosion that I
still,
Well, result you in can
granted that those fires, rather an than event
12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20
21
sort
of things usually It's
explosions.
imagine,
where the hydrogen escapes from the confined area and gets into an explosive concentration,
in the larger building volume.
and the bigger
So,
don't
think
it's
incredible, it's
but hard
whether that's actually what happen or not, to say. MR. MORRIS: Okay, well,
we appreciate it.
Any new data points you get --
22
23 MR.
MORRIS: --
Okay.
we would be interesting in
24 25
hearing.
Yes, NEAL R.GROSS
I don't think any of
(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross.com
41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 a turbine
--
the
rest
of
our stuff
(inaudible) off the
was TEPCO
anything website, seen
new. about
It's the
mostly status update.
just
of the --
I'm sure
you've
that 1:00 p.m.
MALE eastern
PARTICIPANT: out says, from "The
Yes, Reuters, outer
we've that
got
a 4:08 that
time print it
says
NHK Television,
structure
of the
building that houses the reactor appears to have blown off." Okay, go back and fix our's. MALE PARTICIPANT: That would not indicate well, then I need to
14
15 16 explosion.
MALE
Right.
PARTICIPANT: -or a generator
17
18 19 20 We'll see if MR.
MORRIS:
All right,
Yes, so,
okay.
we'll keep watching. we'll let
we can get any verified facts,
you know.
21
22 23 I appreciate
it.
I do appreciate All right,
it.
Q0
MALE PARTICIPANT:
thanks,
24
25 back, because
If
someone
can
call
me
I've moved from the number that you got
NEAL R. GROSS
42 Hayden on.
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Okay. So, the number that you is
need to reach me on,
at least for the time being,
MR.
MORRIS: Correct.
MR.
MORRIS:
Okay. All right, thanks. Ray.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. MORRIS:
Thanks,
Thank you. All right, bye.
NEAL R.GROSS
43
2 3 4 5
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS Chairman Jaczko is MR. OFFICER: Hey, Mr. Dorman, again.
coming up to the bridge, All right. OFFICER: Mr.
DORMAN:
OPERATIONS 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 just make these, pre-occupied. 'no'? MR. DORMAN: on the bridge.
Chairman,
you're
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Yes,
Okay, sir.
hey,
Dan.
How are you doing? there. emails
We're hanging in Are
CHAIRMAN that I'm sending you, MR.
JACZKO:
you getting
just to confirm? Let me open up and check. Okay, that would be a
DORMAN:
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Yes,
yes,
I've been a little
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: All
Okay. right, yes, Lyons. through I've got
several from you and responses from Mr. Let's right now. CHAIRMAN sure to JACZKO: Okay, see, yes, I'm
scanning
yes,
if then
you
can
confirm
those
things
for me,
NEAL R.GROSS
44
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that I indicated in MR. went --
the email. Yes, the SITREP to DHS just
DORMAN:

--
Okay. and included this latest and Scott is
information with the appropriate caveats,
working on updating the talking points for you. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. at this ability as, to DORMAN: Okay. still looking and no still
Although we're direct scenarios,
we have little assess the "If
information so, we're
looking at a lot of, on in Japan,
you want to know what's going
talk to the Japanese." CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: beyond Okay. that sense, that we're you it's want -us if to a
But in that, points,
there's work, little
anything
from the bit of,
talking
trying in
to do
trying to put ourselves
your shoes,
for what you might walk into this morning. CHAIRMAN fine, what know, and we again, JACZKO: we this can, Got let's is, you, yes, just based that's stick on, to you
where at
know,
which
point
anecdotal evidence and things like that. So, and if cc'ed there was you on, anything in that you any think of is
the
emails
NEAL R.GROSS
45 1 2 3 4 5 6
7
inaccurate, hopefully
please, captured it
just with
respond the
back.
But
appropriate
caveats,
what you had told me. MR. MR. Morris.

think I
DORMAN: MORRIS: individual
Okay. Mr. at
-I
Chairman, the White
this House,
is
Scott that
Dan's
The
saw
one
of
the
was
looking
over
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
shoulder here,
on these emails, Yes.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR.

from him?
MORRIS:
just --
Have you heard anything back

I'm curious, we sent the
We're
SITREP
to
DHS,
but
think earlier,
there
was
some
interest in directly, is
sharing our thoughts with the White House, that accurate? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: M Okay. Include him on the Yes, it should be to
that individual, MR.
that MORRIS:
whatever.
CHAIRMAN distribution. MR. MR.
JACZKO:
MORRIS: DORMAN:
Okay. Okay. And Pete Lyons, as well.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
MR. MORRIS: Okay.
24 25 is
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Is
your sense that
DHS
not getting information to others?
NEAL R. GROSS
46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the seven those can, those and withM CHAIRMAN individuals JACZKO: you Okay, know, include any of clear to me, MR. DORMAN: I would say it's not been in
that DHS is
a significant participant
the communications We've
that we've been involved in. had more with Department of Energy
then,
that
you're having as
contacts with. well. MR.
Include them on the distributions,
DORMAN:
Okay. Yes, get to whomever we
CHAIRMAN directly, MR. MR.
JACZKO:
and then work through DHS. DORMAN: MORRIS: Okay. All right. And then cc me on all so that I have of
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: communications, as well. MR. DORMAN: Yes, too,
the latest
information,
sir. Okay, what is your
CHAIRMAN recommendation for me, MR.
JACZKO:
at this point? I think you could wait until If we're still -I'm still
DORMAN:
o'clock. same
watching
the
loop of
footage
on the television,
and we're not getting a lot of other -MR. MORRIS: We've got some stuff on the
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealmross.com v
47 1 Reuters wire that has --
2 3
4 and things,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
MR. MORRIS: ---
Okay.
talked about explosions
but it's
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conversation, we're with -we get a little if there is coming in, the -all
MR.
DORMAN:
But it's
pretty much up,
all
of
of the
networks
are picking
what was
originally shown on a Japanese network. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. in DORMAN: Okay. new seems to be
But nothing
the last 45 minutes or so. Okay, well, I'll try and call me
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: bit more
sleep then,
and again,
a significant change. But what I want to emphasize again is get our communications information individuals in prepared, we have, that
again, that we
the best
available
continue to loop those communications,
with any of our make sure as well.
and also,
that we're also --
that we're thinking about spent fuel pools, MR. DORMAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: is,
Just to make sure. Yes, we're having that in
because it
as Commissioner Lyons,
one of those emails,
that this was one of the sites -this is a similar to
and to the best of our knowledge,
NEAL R. GROSS
48
1 design to most of our early BWR's that has the -the
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17
spent
fuel
pool
at
the and if
top
of
the
secondary then --
containment structure,
that's accurate,
and we're reading the image accurately, see is pool is the open framework,
that what we
then what you have at that at the top.
now open into the environment, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Okay.
What we don't know is what -to the cooling or water
is
any
information
related
supplies there. CHAIRMAN JACZKO:

we are --
Okay,
and again,
our -the
make sure that we're considering that in
assessment and scenarios, MR. DORMAN:
as well then. Yes, sir. Okay, and again, we're -
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: - where do you think we are,

an assessment that includes
in terms of getting now,

an unvented -or an open
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
containment? MR. that is DORMAN: Well, we have an assessment an open containment, a very bad scenario
100 percent core melt in as you would imagine,
and that's,
with reaching the protective action guidelines out to 50 miles down wind. Right ocean, now, down wind is out over the to
but we don't have any reason, NEAL R.GROSS
at this point,
(202) 234-4433
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49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. BRUNELL: I think that's a fair -case believe that we're at anything like that kind of
source term. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. scenario. DORMAN: We So, Okay. that's have any our truly worse to
don't
information is it.
support a --
you know,
what less than that, Okay. it's
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRUNELL:
Chairman,
Scott Brunell
from Public Affairs. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes.
NEAL R.GROSS
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50 1 2 3 assessment. CHAIRMAN a worse case JACZKO: -or Okay, well, be a okay, in a and even in worse case that that MR. MORRIS: Yes, I think that's a fair
4
5 6 7
scenario would
scenario, Hawaii
again,
there
possibility any levels
or anywhere
else would exceed
would require shelter, MR. could say, MORRIS:
any protective action? No, I don't -no, I think we
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 again, then out. we if Scott's
based on the worse case assessment we have,
I think we can say safely that there would not be any protective actions recommendations Thinking comment it's on -back public that to for those areas. and going to to
1986,
confidence,
relative
monitoring,
would be
the avenue
of why
you would want to get into monitoring, can say, "Yes, we're measuring it, JACZKO:
just so that we okay." right, well,
and it's all
CHAIRMAN that's need to
Okay,
something -we
that we need to be doing, to get that information
need
If,
from a safety standpoint, it's
we believe -
or any other reason,
important to get that out,
then we should engage DHS. MR. DORMAN: Okay, all Okay, right. any -does that -
25
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
NEAL R.GROSS
51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 14 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 have arrival in well. So, had a brief - any other issues, MR. at this point? I only point out that we've with the IAEA folks and the
BRUNELL:
interaction
operations center. Those two are going to get information, they've reached out to us, to see if as we
could help, that,
and we've pretty much,
shared with
them,
you know, MR.
our information was sketchy, MORRIS: And we did ask
at best. -we as
that
pointed out that we do have an individual en route, part of a search and rescue/disaster relief
effort, and could
but that if put them in
the IAEA had contact with NISA, touch with us, it
would be good for him to when he arrives. good. When do we
have the best information available, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: anticipate his arrival? MR. MORRIS: We're Okay,
anticipating
his
California in
about an hour. Okay. he'll about
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. MORRIS: there
And then I'm assuming, for refueling So, and then,
a stop over
another eight hour flight. a.m. tomorrow -MR. BRUNELL:
I think it
will 11:30
23
24 25
Tomorrow, Okay.
in
Mesala.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
NEAL R.GROSS
52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 still sure you this point? MR. MORRIS: No, sir. Okay, so, out we to -a make wider a 11:30 a.m. MR. MORRIS: Okay, and did you hear that,
local in
Mesala? Okay. it will be 9:30 eastern
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRUNELL: Yes,
standard time on 3/12. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. MR. MORRIS: BRUNELL: Okay.
All right. Yes. Okay, anything else, at
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
CHAIRMAN get those
JACZKO:
communications can you --
audience, unique
and then Dan, here.
I guess, in
we're in
situation
We're not really or anything,
any kind
of true national response, are we? MR. DORMAN:
at this point,
That is
correct. Okay, okay, so, we're a
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
primarily dealing with, event? DORMAN: Yes,
for the United States,
communications MR.
sir. Okay, okay, well, let's
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: make sure we have all MR.
our communications Yes, sir.
right.
DORMAN:
NEAL R.GROSS
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53 1 2 CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Okay, thanks.
You're welcome.
(CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED) 4
E -7
1C 11 12
1E 13
20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
www.nealrgross.com
54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the center. everybody. headquarters (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS OFFICER: This is the
operations officer.
Chairman will be on
the bridge momentarily. Chairman Jaczko, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: you're on the bridge now. Okay, thank. Hi,
Sorry to have to get in. MR. DORMAN: That's all I right. to confirm case I --
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
just want in of
the information that you told me to get, because people. So, MR. if I'm getting pinged by a bunch
different
you can make sure to send the -The updates? -the updates, and I
DORMAN:
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
won't have to do that as much. We have video footage that we believed
showed containment has been violated. MR. DORMAN: Yes, what is it, is -I'll
try to describe it
for you. you've got the plants in reactor buildings and is
From a distance, You've got
four
behind them,
from the point of view of the camera,
NEAL R.GROSS
55 1 2 3 4 5 the see turbine is, building and then the sea, and what you 1,
on the left-most,
which would be
the Unit
from the vicinity of the reactor building, initial vertical pulse

--
you see an
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: --
Yes. and then a large white
7 8 9
cloud,
spread out from that reactor building, image,
and then
you have footage of a later three images, reactor and buildings the one
where you have the solid white know, the
to the where
right are -you
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25
the
explosion occurred, the portion of
appears
to be the metal
frames of plug
the building above
the refueling
and the spent fuel pool. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. assessment is, it DORMAN: appears Okay. And based on that, our
to have been
an event that
originated in
the reactor building. Okay. our assessment is that
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. there is DORMAN: And
possibility that that would --
and event like
that involved a failure of the primary containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. DORMAN: But Okay. Yes. again, that's all our
inference off some media footage.
NEAL R. GROSS
56 1 2 It MALE PARTICIPANT: looks like steam, MR. MALE smoke, Well, there's no smoke.
or some kind of vapor. Or yes, the -It doesn't look like
3
4 5
DORMAN:
PARTICIPANT:
and there was no fire ball. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. pulverized
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 a little concrete,
MR. too.
DORMAN:
And some of that's
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN of information again? MR. over DORMAN: an hour JACZKO:
Yes. And then the IAEA piece that to me,
we have,
can you describe
The IAEA, ago, from
we talked to them, their operations
center,
and Mark Shafer was on their end. We basically confirmed that they are as
starved for facts as we are. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: So, Right. Okay. there -unfortunately, much. they are in I some
we were mutually unable to help each other, CHAIRMAN the same -you did JACZKO: get Okay, but
23
24 25
they me
official NISA
notification? had made
thought
told
that
notification.
NEAL R.GROSS
57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 MR. DORMAN: Yes, there was -yes, as we
were that
talking,
I had said --
a note
was handed
to me in
said NISA called
IAEA and reported
explosion
the reactor building. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: building. suggesting

So,
Okay, I'm
so,
in
the reactor some emails not in
not the
--
getting in the
that
issue
or that
is
turbine,
the reactor building, MR. conversation
-And this is at
--
DORMAN: M it
we
--
had
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21
with
was looking
they were
looking initial
at
the
same
footage was
that it
we
are, was a
and
their
assessment
that
hydrogen
explosion in
the turbine building. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: loop of Okay. and as to
And we're looking at it, the explosion -right now
I'm watching we're talking, see it
the
and we are seeing it
we continue
as a reactor building issue. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: familiar Okay, with and BWR
is
again, designs,
a
just is
because
there --
I'm
not
their
that
turbine
building
separate
22 23 24 25
building? MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. building. DORMAN: Yes. Yes, it is a separate
NEAL R.GROSS
58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 raised is event in the point CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. of DORMAN: Okay. on the far it is on -the from far
And it's this camera,

--
view of
side from the reactor building CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN:

--
Okay. and I that's am not envisioning being postulated that I'm currently
how a turbine building event, by others, would cause
the damage
looking at on the Unit 1 reactor building. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: The Okay. other issue that we've
that the apparent mode of force for such an the turbine building would be hydrogen that
cooled the turbine, issue, in terms of --
and we don't
see any deflagration
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: --
Okay. we don't see any flame -Right, which you'd see
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
from a hydrogen explosion. MR. DORMAN: Right. Okay, sir. Just make sure to put me the SITREP, so, I have good, thanks.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Yes,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: on the email, that in or just send me too.
written form,
NEAL R.GROSS
59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 few minutes. MR. BRENNER: Chairman? Yes. as well. appreciate MALE PARTICIPANT: that shortly. CHAIRMAN it. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Sure. And I'll see you in a JACZKO: Okay, good, thank you, Yes, sir, I'll be doing
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER:
Eliot Brenner here, Okay.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
NEAL R.GROSS

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
60 Stay down here? MR. BRENNER: You probably want to say
close to downtown for the time being. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. media, you. CHAIRMAN make we're JACZKO: Okay, As paper, when I okay, and let's and I BRENNER: Okay. we're closer to the
Because leave
could always
out of here
and meet
sure we get information. putting in it down on
soon as we get it, so have that I have down
information there.
front
of me,
to get
MR.
MORRIS:
Right. Okay, in, if and again, just to I'll
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: recap then, I will not come
at this point.
stay here.
You can post it MR. MORRIS:
anything else changes. sir. Okay, good, thank you.
Yes,
CHAIRMAN MR. MR. (CONFERENCE
JACZKO:
MORRIS: DORMAN:
Thank you. Thank you.
CALL CONCLUDED)
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put you on
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS OFFICER: This is officer. The Chairman is MR. DORMAN: the operations
joining the conference. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Chairman. might
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: OPERATIONS
Good morning, I think
OFFICER:
that
have been the Ops Officer on the conference. MALE PARTICIPANT: OPERATIONS should be on shortly. MR. MALE
'mute'
Okay. Good morning, he
OFFICER:
DORMAN:
Okay. Okay, we're going to
PARTICIPANT:
for now.
OPERATIONS
OFFICER:
The
Chairman
will
be
joining the conference momentarily. MR. DORMAN: Thank you. Good morning, Good morning, Dan. everyone. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. here. DORMAN: We've
This is got
We've got Scott and Bill
Marty
Virgilio joined us,
Borchardt
and Brian McDermott have and out. is few not hours
as well here. since no new
as others coming in There talked a
Eliot Brenner is significant ago. change is
There
NEAL R.GROSS
80 1 2 3 4 5 information regarding the status of the core at Unit although I
1, nor the status of cooling to the core, think as more in time passes,
we're taking some comfort you
the notion that we're not hearing a lot about, significant expect to releases from the facility, start to hear, if
know, would
that we were
there
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
significant issues with that core. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. additional DORMAN: on Okay. to have no
We also continue the status
information
of maintaining
cooling through the other units at that site. The conjunction with were four workers media are reporting that in there
that nuclear plant injured,
explosion,
who have been transported about the nature or
to hospitals,
but no information
extent of the injuries associated with that.
CHAIRMAN again for me,
JACZKO:
Can you just summarize
what your thoughts are on that? NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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81 1 2 3 4 5 explosion was in MR. that the DORMAN: Yes, our inference is that and from the
we've observed reactor
the explosion represents a
building of the
significant
failure
containment,
primary
containment function. We did acknowledge the Ops that there here are some in
7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14
folks,
both
within
Center
and
out
other agencies, hydrogen
who are looking at that, the turbine building,
and seeing a but that's
explosion
not our primary assumption. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR.

-yes, a
Okay. excuse me
that's of the
DORMAN:
A steam explosion,
for --
steam what
explosion we
containment, well, one
correct,
and
thought
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
reasons explosion
that in of if
we the
don't
believe
it
was was
a we
hydrogen found is no no
turbine and
building
indication indication, explosion,
flames
similarly,
there
you look at the later images after the is no indication of any kind of
there
sustained fire, smoke, So, points for you. the Q&A's. we
anything of that sort. have put together key talking
We are just finalizing an update for
We have the SITREP that I emailed to you, and the reactor safety and protective measure teams
NEAL R.GROSS
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82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and either by to -flight airport. The Embassy in getting Tokyo is standing by there, with the team that flight arrive onto out in have put together about a dozen questions like to ask me, to -if we get that they'd to
the opportunity
have direct contact with the Japanese. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. to DORMAN: the west Okay. Ulses which the hour, 9:30 did we catch expect then the to go
Tony coast,
Los Angeles, arriving
within there
and
Japan,
about
eastern
time
tonight. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Our Okay. understanding is that
that flight will be arriving somewhere to the north of the affected area. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Okay.
And that the team would then from there. So, is
be transported into the release area, we're still kind of trying into that team. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Okay. is
to feel out where Tony
going to fit
Jim Trapp
still
standing
we've got him lined up on the 11:00-something out of Dulles, to Narita Airport -to the
him connected
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83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 modeling, DHS, that Tony is with, would or if that his doesn't seem to fit, the and
Embassy
welcome
technical
assistance
advice at the Embassy. So, either way, the Embassy will be
helping to get Jim situated. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. EPA DORMAN: begin, We if Okay, have they the a good. suggested, haven't coast through already, and the that
radiation Islands,
monitoring not because
along we
west
have
safety
concern
there would be an impact there,
but that we expect to
go out a message that we don't expect an impact there, it would be good for public confidence, to have some
data that supports that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. MALE maybe. MR. did look at a DORMAN: scenario the would Okay, yes, we did -100 the PMC core DORMAN: Okay.
What other updates? I guess some of the
PARTICIPANT:
19
20 21 22 23 24 25
involving containment be a
percent
damage, you can
along
with
failure,
which as with
imagine,
significant
event
protective action guidelines well beyond 50 miles. But again, at this point, we do not have
an indication that there is
anything like that kind of
NEAL R. GROSS
84 1 2
3
core
damage,
but
that
would
be
kind
of
bounding
scenario.
There is some -they did get a chart from
4 5
the folks at Lawrence Livermore, been generated by NOAA. We're not quite is to sure
that appears to have
what but it
the focus indicates
and a
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21
the
analysis
mode
that,
track, would
not dose levels, show a particle
but a track for particles that release, that would get out,
south of the and then
(inaudible) on
and then turn to the north, the particle sizes, end up
depending
across Eastern Russia and Western Alaska. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: So, Okay. we do not expect any kind the direction
of significant plume working its way in of the west coast or Hawaii. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: We Okay. are
building
a plan
to
staff the ops center, and the reactor

team, and with --
with the current staffing levels and protective measures
safety team,
at least
going into the day shift,
22
23 24
either augmented staffing for the liaison team,

affairs, into -to -and the we're day mapping shift on out that
public
staffing with the
through
Tuesday,
25
notion
that
if
we
do
need
to
get
that
far
and
go
NEAL R.GROSS
85 1 2 farther, those than Sunday and Monday, would be and we can evaluate what the plan and
needs if
extend
assessing, 4
appropriate. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN: Okay.
E
E 7 8 just tell to come in.
Any others? Yes, calls Chairman, I will
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
you that the press I
are just starting a
just had a call as we were chatting,
request for an interview.

1C
11 you 12 13 14 1E 1E 17 with FEMA, stay
For the time being, where you are, while
I think it's we see what
best that develops up with
the White
House and whether
we can hook
for anything they might have cooking. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Have you reached out to
the White House,
again? Yes. What have they told you? I have not heard back
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE from them yet. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: PARTICIPANT:
18
1E
2-C
21 22 23 24 2E an to email, at
Okay,
if
you
can
continue to try and get some contact there. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: high our level, in I will get busy. Okay, and I did get just to Margie's JNAS, and I'll email, just
response at
least
counterparts
NEAL R.GROSS
86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is that we you know, so, not need reiterate to you, I think an important point, not that
I think we've been ignoring this. But they essentially and were indicated dealing they did
assistance
with
their
issues. So, to the extent that they can do that --
that we don't bombard them with requests
and things like that. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. The other some
--
request
too,
also consider
sending
one or more down to the
people
with technical so that in
expertise,
perhaps
Hill office, on any
the event we do need to engage communications down here, that with
kind of public there is
there are --
someone I can take with me,
technical expertise. MR. BORCHARDT: Yes, Chairman, it's Bill.
Are you talking in back up here?
addition to being able to just call
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT:
Yes. Do you want somebody to be
able to go to a press conference with you? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. look at that. BORCHARDT: I guess, Yes, Okay, a physical body. we can certainly if we
falling on the weekend,
NEAL R.GROSS
87 1 2 don't think, have any weather or traffic it or anything, you
you know,
the 30 minutes is too long, the idea a little
would take
to get
3
4
downtown would -I who could be and

--
to respond? is having easier somebody here to stay up to
mean, -it's
5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
speed,
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. they're go, but here in they're what's real BORCHARDT:
Yes,
and the
--
Go ahead, Well,
sorry. if
I'm just saying, on, to
the ops center, -it's going a
with tie
ready to to
lot easier and than
stay up just to
speed
on
on,
then having
drive get
downtown,
fast,
rather
just
updates and get more and more disconnected in a remote office. CHAIRMAN let's lean JACZKO: Yes, that's to go,
from being
fine, quickly, that
then and
just have somebody prepared very far forward. If it
looks
like
we're
going to have to engage, down.
then let's
have somebody come
I
reality, we
think
--
and
again, a
from of
practical
don't
really
have
lot
information.
We're not likely going to get a lot of information. So, someone helps it me will mostly just be so that I have with the questions, that we're not
NEAL R.GROSS
88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12i 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 2 for Last night, with INPO, MR. VIRGILIO: Chairman, this is Marty. So, but obviously, we're sharing a little pretty limited. Okay. know, the inquiries bit with them, prepared for. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. MORRIS:
But you
are starting to come in.
we had to open some lines of communication as well as NEI, and they were giving us
information that they were receiving from WANO. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: And are we getting --
are we getting any communications
from the White House
about either briefings or meetings? MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. MALE information. VIRGILIO: No, No, we have not.
nothing yet. They've said only asked us about
PARTICIPANT: They haven't
anything
meetings or briefings. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
89
1 2 will be MALE doing PARTICIPANT: I suspect that they
their morning briefings,
based on what
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1
we told them,
and then those decisions will get made. Okay, well, again, let's
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
--
I just want to make sure that we continue
to be in
the
loop,
so
that
mis-information
does
not
get
propagated through the Federal family. MR. DORMAN: Yes, JACZKO: sir. Okay, all right,
CHAIRMAN anything else,
at this point? What do you want to do, to keep you informed? or are
MALE PARTICIPANT: or what do we have set up,
We're doing regular briefs with the Chairman, they pre-scheduled, MR.
What we had --
or just ad hoc? This one was pre-scheduled.

us with last night was,
DORMAN:
what they left
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
any
significant
break
in
positive
or
negative we called
direction,
assuming
we had the
explosion,
him up and so,
we had some ongoing interaction between and then we called in for this. what on we've the been next doing. contact,
four and five o'clock, But Chairman, any
that's preference
concerning other issues? CHAIRMAN hour, JACZKO: I would suggest every which
just a call to me,
either on this number,
NEAL R.GROSS
90
1
is
my home number, update for
or my BlackBerry, any changing
and just with a and then
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
quick
information,
just monitor your emails, I'm I'll forward yes, MR. trying to
as well. to deal if with I email to, messages. and but
them let's
you,
need
otherwise,
just proceed that way.. All right. At this point, group we is do for I guess I me not to to do
DORMAN:
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: would come take up the sense of the if
there, it's
that
need
communications, be up in
easier for me to be here than to
Rockville? MALE PARTICIPANT: lot Yes, I don't and really if you to
think there's need to
a whole it's
for you to do, to be
respond,
going
responding
downtown. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: cycle of travel. CHAIRMAN agree. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Okay, an ything else? think so. good. Well, I JACZKO:
Good, yes, okay, I Yes. So, it just prevents a
I don't Okay,
NEALR. GROSS
91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 .22 23 24 25 later. MR. DORMAN: Okay. Thanks, bye. appreciate it, everybody, and keep up the good work. All right, talk to you
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that. realize. MR. VIRGILIO: I'm here now. Okay. So, I can take care of from This is (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS joining the conference. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Hello. Good morning, Chairman. OFFICER: The Chairman is
Marty Virgilio. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Hello, I'm just going to
keep a line on here, on what's going
just so I and
can kind of listen in I sent a couple of --
on there, in.
I'm sending emails that's
I just want to make sure that
an effective way to get a hold of you. MR. VIRGILIO: I will make sure. I sent them to Bill, so,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
should I forward them to you instead? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, just copy Bill and I,
or just send them to me. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Okay. Bill and I took over at
three o'clock this afternoon. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, okay, didn't
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO:
We also saw a very confusing message email
NEAL R. GROSS
93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
a primary --
Japan that OIP got. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. explosion, VIRGILIO: Okay.
Which talked about the same had containment.
saying that they still CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO:
Okay.
But that the explosion may
have been due to hydrogen. So, I think maybe they mean containment as
the reactor vessel.
10 11 12 13 14 1 1 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 one that bit more I vocabulary. got, that's containment?
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Okay,
but
secondary
MR.
VIRGILIO:
Yes,
versus the containment when we talk about
shell that we normally talk about, containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: So, Okay. it's
an email it's
that
we
almost
of --
unusable,
because
internally
and consists
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
MR. VIRGILIO:
Okay.
--
highly
(inaudible)
CHAIRMAN got from and
JACZKO: DOE, it which
Well, it
forwarded a little
you
may make that in it
sense,
indicates that
was fact,
result have a
that the after-shock,
they did,
NEAL R. GROSS
94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 14 1 16 17 18 1 20 connection, footage, confused. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. turbine building, BILL: MR. but VIRGILIO: If Yes, yes. would have said hydrogen explosion in MR. the reactor building. Okay, that's a little
VIRGILIO:
they
then I might have been -Right. VIRGILIO: what we're

--
able in
to
make of
that the
seeing,
terms
looks like the secondary containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: in Yes, But yes. sure that you
I'm not
would see hydrogen spill
that area. In is there, right. lingering in
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: the after-footage, And there
no fires
as to what we got on turnover. Yes. looked more like

--
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: pressure release, So, it
steam
as opposed to a hydrogen Ignition? right. Well, Bill,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: --
21
22
ignition, JACZKO:
CHAIRMAN that to you and --
forwarded you can --
23
24 2
that email,
and then if --
the other one I forwarded to is
there was reference I'm
to an eight o'clock call or decision about a noon,
NEAL R.GROSS
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95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the join in just I'll -put I'll you assuming, a Deputy's call. So, if we can just confirm that we're
getting information about those things. BILL: I'll check into that, JACZKO: as an Okay, open Chairman. then then, I'll I'll here. put my in
CHAIRMAN keep on
great, line or
this
'mute'
from my end, but I'll
cell phone on that way. MR.
'mute',
just keep listening
VIRGILIO:
Okay,
sir,
we're
ready
to
the Commissioner assistance, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Okay,
for a briefing. great. Thanks.
Operations officer? We hear you, sir,
OPERATIONS
OFFICER:
we're joining the conferences now. MR. VIRGILIO: Thank you. Good morning, We this is will now
OPERATIONS headquarters a roster briefing,
OFFICER:
operations playback for
officer. for the
conduct
Commission's in Japan.
assistance
the
situation
Stand by until the roster playback is (CONFERENCE Operations Officer, Elena Cook, Galloway, Cynthia FSME,
complete. Headquarters Alan Thornhill, Super, A.
PARTICIPANTS: Brian Smith,
Randy Peterson,
(inaudible), Billy
Gregory Mark
Dixon,
Satorius,
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8
Public Warnick, Leeds,
Affairs,
Region
III, Mike
Mike
Snodderly, N. Hart,
Greg Eric
Ed Kaffleman,
Franovich,
Charles Neller) MR. VIRGILIO: Good morning, this is Marty
Virgilio,
and I just wanted to provide you an update. For those of you who were not on the line
at 11:15 p.m.
what we were --
last night,
facts,
let me just repeat
some of
as we knew them,
at that time,
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
and then I'll have,
just bring you up to speed with what we
since then. As of last night, where we were was, we
were focused on the Fukushima Daiichi Units 1 and 2, who had experienced to start the loss of offsite power, diesel generators were able for some
emergency
period of time, fuel so,
and what we believe to be a loss of The diesels shut down,
supply to the diesels.
they entered a station black-out. As of last night, we then were we were was seeing under doing
increasing the
containment
pressure, the
understanding
that
licensee
something controlled venting. At that point in time, done some reach back to Exelon, them to do some City. NEAL R. GROSS
we knew that GE had and they were asking (inaudible)
scenarios
for addressing
(202) 234-4433
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97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9
We also, a Federal support
at that time, team, to
started to assemble the technical we
provide in
assistance
and at that point
time last night,
were going to be providing NRC support to that team. We were developing Q's and A's, and we
were starting to respond to media inquiries, couple of press releases. So, that's
and had a
where we left off last night.

as -if -you've is seen we
What's happened since that time, the television, you've seen the
10 11
12
steam
what
believe to be a steam explosion,

about 3:46 this morning, our time,
and that occurred at

and that is -that
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
affected
Unit
1, and
we
believe
that
it
was
the
secondary containment building. We believe not the reactor. reactor, the So, it was a steam explosion, and
anything having to do with the all our supposition, best just watching about the
that this is and using
videos
judgment
design of the plant. We understand from various sources, that
they had connected some emergency power and they were doing some make-up and the level was being maintained, but that loss of secondary containment, from the television video clips, fuel now, to the environment, NEAL R.GROSS
as you can see
does expose the spent provides an unfiltered
(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross.Gom
98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .1
17 to the --
path and could be providing
an unfiltered
path from
the containment to the environment.

We really are -I would say that our
information than what
sources we had
this morning are not much better last night, and so, we're getting most of
various which is
information
from
various
sources,
either conflicting
or supporting the little
bit of information that we actually have. Here develop Chairman talking to use. in the ops and center, Q's and we continue for in to the the
points We've
A's, or are
established,
process of establishing a watch-build, us out through Tuesday morning, the reactor safety team, a liaison team.
that will take
and that will include
protective measures team and
And we're providing updated situation reps

reports to the Department of Homeland
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Security,
and have had some dialog with staff at the
White House. I know today. think that pretty much Let me ask Brian if covers is what we anything
there
else that we have. MR. MR. are. SMITH: That's about it. VIRGILIO: if Okay, that's about where we
Let me see
we can respond to any questions NEAL R.GROSS
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99
1
2 3 4 5
that you might have. MALE PARTICIPANT:

team to be on -MR. in Japan? I think they were -Tony
When do you expect
the
VIRGILIO:
Ulses 9:00
is p.m.
on
the
flight time.
with
USAID,
and
their ETA is be an arrival
eastern --
That
would
7 8 9 10 11 12 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2
point in in Japan,
about 400 kilometers north of the disaster and then they would need to transport from
there,
wherever the team goes from that. But we'll get in touch with Tony, once he
gets on the ground. MALE departing flight, for PARTICIPANT: Airport, now. And He Jim has Trapp an is
Dulles
11:20
direct from Dulles
to Narita,
and that should
touch down approximately
13 hours,
subsequently.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. unless we'll there do is VIRGILIO: a
Thank you. Okay,
Any other questions? change call in at
significant periodic
conditions, 3:30 this
the
next
afternoon. MALE PARTICIPANT: OPERATIONS headquarters the call, operations Thank you. This is the
OFFICER: officer.
Everyone can access
using the same method you did for this call.
NEAL R. GROSS
100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Marty? Chairman. Did you get any updates
Yes,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: about the eight o'clock? MR. VIRGILIO: No,
we're checking. Okay.

there is also -I got
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
BILL: Chairman,
one of one.
the emails
that
you sent,
but not
the second
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: that would be So, if
Okay.
you could resend that to me, I think something slipped
helpful.
through the cracks. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BILL: right, from CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
BILL: -about
Which one did you --
Yes,
let me make sure that I get it I think it's maybe
here.
It's
the one about --
Okay.
being in the (inaudible),
that was the title.

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
24 25
BILL: The other one, CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
I didn't get. I'll forward it to
Okay,
NEAL R. GROSS
101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1
you. from
That's the one that has some updated information the site, or from the Japanese. I'll forward
that to you right now. BILL: Okay, thank you. Sure. Marty, Chairman.
This is
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. you. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. connected. CHAIRMAN Thanks. MR. VIRGILIO: JACZKO: VIRGILIO: VIRGILIO:
Did Bill get the email?
I have gotten an email from
Okay,
good. so, we are
Thanks,
Okay,
good,
excellent.
Okay.
And this no eight --we haven't so, I'm
CHAIRMAN done anything else
JACZKO: about
17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25
assuming we weren't call? MR. up.
informed about this eight o'clock
VIRGILIO:
We're
continuing to follow now. good. of right now, we
They are following up on it, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO:
Okay, But as
believe the next Deputy's call is CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
at noon. okay, good.
Okay,
NEAL R.GROSS
102 MR. find out is if VIRGILIO: there is And what some we're to trying to
movement
accelerate
that schedule and move up that call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. (CONFERENCE VIRGILIO: Okay, good, thanks.
Okay.
CALL CONCLUDED)
NEAL R. GROSS
103 1
2 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED)
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we feel in the day, that point. there on the line?
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Chairman,
are you still
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MIKE: Yes,
Yes. Okay, I Mike? called out of the
Chairman,
White House situation room, briefing scheduled. The had person been no I
to find out if
there was a
talked briefing
to
down
there at
said this
scheduled
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MIKE: There
Okay. one later
would probably be
but at this point,
he said there was none
scheduled. CHAIRMAN comfortable JACZKO: that we're Okay, in okay, great, if it and is
the loop,
scheduled? MIKE: Yes, I mean, we've been So, in contact
with them tonight on several points. they would include us. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay,
I think that
good. Mike.
Thanks, Thanks.
NEAL R. GROSS
104
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25
(CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED) (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS Operation conference. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: dropped you on the bridge. Just thinking a little if there is -now, at this point, bit ahead, if we -Hello. Yes, Chairman. I think I Officer, the OFFICER: Chairman will be Headquarters joining the
How are you?
there doesn't seem
to be any press activity, noon Deputy's call, so,
and given that we may do a I'm wondering if you have
change in
the recommendation
for me to stay down here,
or whether I need to get up there. MALE PARTICIPANT: that we had received, that they -a noon call, you know, Well, the last message
from the White House,
they couldn't even confirm that there was yet. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, we'll continue to
pulse that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE mean, PARTICIPANT: Okay. And let you know. I
you're more than welcome to come up.
We're just
NEAL R.GROSS
105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 else, Well, here going thinking that you might wind up having to go back down again. CHAIRMAN for a little to be a JACZKO: If I it Yes, well, I'll stay is
while.. noon it is call, or it's call,
looks think
like there it's
probably, to get out a
despite everything, up there, way else's to do ops than that it
would be easier for me to try and getting
for me figure into --
either
somebody
center,
somebody else's
or into the
situation room or, from the NRC.
probably just easier to do it
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN keep me posted, JACZKO: if
Okay. Okay, well, good. that.
you have any changes in Okay, Okay, thanks. thanks.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: at this point? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
Anything
No, Okay,
no new information. thanks.
Okay. Bye.
NEAL R.GROSS
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106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. Virgilio. VIRGILIO: Chairman, this is Marty
Are you on the line?
(OTR comments) OPERATIONS Iavailable, bridge, at this time. OFFICER: Gentlemen, we have
and are transferring him to the
you're
on
the
conference,
now. Yes, am I speaking with, MR. Virgilio, again. please? this is Marty okay, who is this? Who
12 13 14 15
16
VIRGILIO:
MR. VIRGILIO:
Okay.
I just wanted to -we've
17
18 19 20 21
22
got a number of people in
the room with me,
Dave Sheen or trying to make
and others that are doing some calculations, to do an assessment of this. first hand. I just
wanted
sure he heard this,
What I wanted to do, you, as we
Marty, and I
23 24 25
was
reach
out to
know Dave --
or excuse me, MR. VIRGILIO:
talked yesterday,
followed up.
Yes.
NEAL R.GROSS
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1 2 3 4 5 6
7
pretty hard to get in Japan, and I the some think we set, through with contacts WANO.
Additionally,
107 You know, reliable now we've been working communication that and links
have
pretty well their direct for
WANO Tokyo and
center
TEPCO,
with
the London
Center
EPRI had
--
and this
--
is
more
8 9 10 11
12
coincidental team at
than by process, and they've
has a also
you know, I'll
had a say,
TEPCO,
provided,
more confirmatory information. The

we've had
--
second thing that we've

had a conference call
done is,
last
and
we
night.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
We've had another
conference
call
this morning,
with
the WANO London Center, in terms of organizing, and just to
Atlanta Center, you know, make you
EPRI and NEI,
any sort of industry aware that that is
response, ongoing.
You
know,
as
we
kind is
of
piece
together
information and get the story, an update me, for INPO the and CNO's NEI and
that we will provide INPO and EPRI -this
the
excuse
Board,
probably
early
afternoon,
on what's going on. There has been no request for assistance or for what
or anything TEPCO, but
from either the WANO Tokyo Center you know, we are looking as to
NEAL R.GROSS
108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12
industry know,
resources
might
be
available, position
and if, in
to
you fact,
just be in
a pre-emptive
they are requested. And so, emergency right now, response and what center NEI is I really want to do is, at INPO is fully the
staffed
staffing
their
emergency
response center. As quite a few, and INPO is but that's you might imagine, they're getting
you know, and EPRI all being is,
requests
for media engagement
but to a much lesser degree, through, as you might
funneled
imagine,
NEI.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 information as just in
So,
what
wanted
to
do
was,
you
know, is to
terms of this, you know,
so you know what we know,
figure out, you know,
would there be an appropriate --
just kind of piece these together. I'm sure you have learning just your sources of
and how
you're
about the to make
events you as
they emerge,
and you
know,
sure
have as complete of a story as we do, you do. We're kind of reaching out, might want to move forward on the -the events, sort of U.S. as they transpire, response,
what we do,
to see how we kind of
you know,
and as you look at any industry
you know how the U.S.
NEAL R.GROSS
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109 could support what you're doing, would be something
we'd be of,
you know, MR.
most interested in. Great, great, and through we've and we
VIRGILIO: of
of
our
Office
International
Programs,
actually reached out to our counterparts in they've basically, at this point, told us,
Japan, "Thanks,
don't need any additional assistance at the moment." There

right now,
is
a
got
U.S.
-I
team
en
route
know if
to Japan
you know
and we've
don't
Tony
Ulses,
who
is is
one a
of
our of
BWR experts, that team,
reactor we're on
systems
expert,
part
and
sending Jim Trapp, a separate plane,
one of our Region I BWR experts, on his way to Japan, I see. as well. team,
This U.S.
is
that going under like the Department of State,

is the --
or what
MR.
VIRGILIO:
Yes. What are the auspices of
that? MR. VIRGILIO: USAID, I see. And that has a very broad, some 70 people Department of State.
MR. team. You know, VIRGILIO:
I understand there is Nader? It's more
that have been assembled. MR. MAMISH:
disaster
oriented
NEAL R.GROSS
110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9
team,
as opposed to a nuclear expert team. Okay, MR. VIRGILIO: Nader. I mean, I understand. Thanks I think that, for that
clarification,
you know, issues,
as far as nuclear plant operations, that the only person on that team, two people it on the team,
commercial well,
there will be when Jim gets
eventually,
there,
would be Tony and Jim -I
see,
and Tony's last name, It cut out there. Ulses.
&
10 11
what did you say it MR.
was,
Olsen?
12
13
14
-Ulses?
VIRGILIO: Yes. Very good. And DOE has
VIRGILIO:
U-L-S-E-S,
MR.
MR. person? VIRGILIO:
15 16 17 18
19 20
sent
one
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. well. Okay. protocols I'm, you know, VIRGILIO:
One person. They're on the team, as
(
Again, you know, the but that for in not at all familiar with, CNO's, a need
21 22 23 24 25
I know I've gotten calls from several U.S. have help, expressed, you know, you know, if there was
they're
certainly
ready
to help,
any fashion that either you,
you know,
or the Japanese
NEAL R.GROSS
iii 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8
might think appropriate. MR. supportive. VIRGILIO: Okay, that's very
Thank you. Now, I also heard, GE has been and I don't in know this this, and
first
hand,
that
involved
they've
convened
a team to provide
technical
support
to the Japanese. Yes, to them, also. We I'm going to reach out also, that they
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
have heard that,
are doing that, but I don't know the extent of that. MR. but just -VIRGILIO: Yes, Bill, we don't either,
you know,
we just picked that information,
as we've gone through. MALE team work. MR. MALE mobilizing, also, VIRGILIO: Okay. They've because been they've of people PARTICIPANT: on the I believe they have a routine
ground already,
doing
PARTICIPANT: their resources,
gotten 60 to 75 people on the ground. MR. VIRGILIO: Can you hear that, Bill? I did not hear that. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE been in touch PARTICIPANT: them Go ahead. I believe the GE, night. we've They
with
throughout
NEAL R. GROSS
112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11
have a team of people, helping with refueling
I believe, outages,
in or
Japan, the
already, non-
other
affect units that have been in a while, now. So, we've been
a refueling outage for
in
touch
with
them.
They've been working with Exelon, runs, well. So, GE is active. on some different
to do some simulator and so forth, as
scenarios
They've
got
team
that's actively working on this.
Okay, with
that's Exelon on
I had heard that. So,
12 13 14
15
that
they
were
working
that's very good. MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes.
That's very good. MALE PARTICIPANT: We had some conference
16 17
18
calls with Exelon and GE last night. Marty, while, you know, we've -and would it be worth the
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
I'm probably
not
right direction, the current
to kind of go through what we see as but I probably could get our
status,
folks. You know, we've just had the briefing from London, go through
the former Tokyo Center Director in this status in pretty good detail. NEAL R. GROSS
113
1 You know, so, that I didn't -don't
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
garble
it,
would
it
be
worth
while,
maybe,
for
--
having one of our people call you what we know, MR. would bits really and technically? VIRGILIO:
you and at least,
tell
That that,
would be because and
great.
We
appreciate of
we're some
getting of it
pieces
information,
supports other information we're received. So, the ops center. MALE PARTICIPANT: if we could have the call come in to
MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay,
Yes,
301-816-5100.
That's 301-816-5100? That's correct. maybe I'll give them a
call then, you know,

--
in
Atlanta,
and we'll give you a call back, it will probably take us Atlanta, that but be
within the next --
we're still
getting everything set in the next hour.
probably
within
Would
acceptable? MR. VIRGILIO: That would be great,
Who would we be looking for?
22-23 24 25 great, okay. MR. VIRGILIO: Oh, E would call back,
And
it
may not be
exactly
NEAL R. GROSS
114 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1
11
him.
It's
liable to be, a couple Atlanta,
you know,
a couple of our -and you
we have know, in
of TEPCO right now,
liaison engineers and so, it
probably would
be a couple of other people, of contact. MR. then we email, VIRGILIO:
but Rob will be the point
That
would
be
good,
and
can share with Rob, which is older,
what we've picked up via but of we've gotten some Atomic
information
from the Chairman
the Japanese
Energy Commission.
VIRGILIO:
Okay, also.
well, So, I'll
that
would
be
12 13 14
15
very worth while for us, you a call. MR.
have Rob give
Okay. And he'll call this 301
16 17
18
number,
and we can kind of go from there. MR. VIRGILIO: Thanks a lot, Okay, MR. VIRGILIO: thanks, guys.
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
All right,
bye.
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115 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 McDermott. a call in (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS OFFICER: This Can I help? Yes, this is Brian is the
headquarters operations officer. MR. McDERMOTT:
We're anticipating in from INPO, down in
the next hour or so, It may be
Atlanta.
or some other liaison engineers They were calling to
from TEPCO. just share Japan. and do
information with us on the events, So,
they know in
I just wanted you to anticipate that call in, them with the executive team, when they
connect call.
OPERATIONS that last name, MR. again,
OFFICER: please?
Okay,
sir,
what
is
McDERMOTT:
I heard it
as
but that may not be -MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. McDERMOTT:
that's phonetic. INPO.
As long as it's
Yes. All right, sir. Yes, them,
OPERATIONS OFFICER: we understand, gentlemen,
and we will
announce
as we did previously, to the conference. MR.
and then transfer them directly
McDERMOTT:
All right,
thank you.
NEAL R.GROSS
116 1 2 3 4 5 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. VIRGILIO: Operations officer? Yes, sir. to reach out to OPERATIONS OFFICER: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED) Okay.
OPERATIONS OFFICER: 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 What we Virgilio. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. have VIRGILIO: just understand, the Chairman. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. VIRGILIO:
We'd like
At
his
residence.
Do
you have his number there? OPERATIONS OFFICER: All right, I
call the Chairman at his residence. Headquarters operations officer. shortly. The
Chairman should be joining the bridge,

MR. VIRGILIO: Thank you.
Hello. Chairman, this is Marty
Hi,
Marty. we're all the here.
John Bryan, out, that
found
Deputy's
meeting is
now at 11 o'clock this morning. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: It Okay. will be in the White
House situation room.
NEAL R. GROSS
117 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 electronic 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to have is latest paperwork, meeting. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: I Okay. guess the question was, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. to VIRGILIO: get you Okay. And we're working to go through all for the that
clear
how can we support you for that? We were thinking about putting together an package of and information, answers, to you. including and our
questions
background
information,
and sending it
I assume you have a printer that you could print that off at home. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: It's probably easier if
somebody can get me a hard copy. MR. VIRGILIO: Okay, So, okay, if we can do that.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: copy to.my residence. MR. VIRGILIO:
we can get a hard
Okay,
now,
the question is,
do you want somebody to accompany you to this meeting? CHAIRMAN at least JACZKO: Yes, So, we should be able
one person.
whomever
you think
the best. MR. VIRGILIO: All right, we were thinking
about a reactor safety team leader.
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 can still through it meet reach you out CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Okay.
And we will get Dave loaded guess, we'll get him to
up with the information your house.
and I
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: we'll have someone White House, they best. MR. VIRGILIO: have all with
---
Okay,
good,
or if
we --
you can also just meet me at the and I'll just meet there, then and if the
the materials,
that would be
Maybe that would be best. Okay.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. there. -you VIRGILIO: We'll each
And we would have Dave then also make each sure you that you
have
other's
cell
phone
numbers. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: So, Okay, good.
that you can connect. Okay, good, and if you
CHAIRMAN send it
JACZKO:
to me electronically,
so,
I can go
before then, MR.
that would be great. Okay, we're scanning
VIRGILIO: now, all right?
everything in,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. MALE VIRGILIO:
Okay,
good.
Do you have anything? No, I think that's
PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
119
1
2
about it.
I've chatted with Josh about it. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, that's good.
Anymore updates, 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are telling heard, gravitating explosion building. in just MR.
at this point? VIRGILIO: No, nothing definitive. I
got off the phone -at INPO. center, and
we got off the phone will They've manned you know, up their they've
operations
they're
--
gotten multiple offers from the nuclear industry, here in the United States, They're Tokyo and WANO in the same things some for support. connected through WANO, both, in
London, that amount
and they're hearing roughly we're of fuel hearing, damage, about some core iodine
uncovering,
cesium being detected. The to explosion, a theory off-gas people that this or are was in now a the sort of
hydrogen reactor
the
system,
Okay. see, what we had I saw, about
And let's
I think you saw the
same emails
using fire trucks to provide cooling water. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. us VIRGILIO: that Yes. I think unofficial suppression sources are
other
pools
NEAL R.GROSS
120 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 delayed. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR.

o'clock departure.
heating up and starting to boil, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. are. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. call back, technical WANO. CHAIRMAN any updates, if JACZKO: can VIRGILIO: VIRGILIO:
as well.
Okay. So, that's about where we
Okay. INPO is going to give us a and give us all able the
within an hour or so, details they have been
to pick up via
Okay, either
good, send
if that
you get to me
you
electronically, MR.
or have that with Dave. VIRGILIO: Okay, we will. and any updates on
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: our two people who are in MR. is in LAX, VIRGILIO:
Okay,
transit? We've heard from Tony, who
they were loading up the airplane, or so. Okay. And Jim's
maybe a
half-hour ago,
flight
was
Okay. And now

he's a four
VIRGILIO:
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay.
NEAL R. GROSS
www.nealrgross.com
121
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 then on -when you've
MR.
VIRGILIO:
So,
that's
where we are. Okay, good. I
CHAIRMAN appreciate it. MR.
JACZKO:
VIRGILIO:
Okay. Okay, so, I will plan
CHAIRMAN if
JACZKO:
you can give me an email got all the details
confirmation, out with
worked
credentialing,
to get into the White House,
and then -
9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you can and I actually White MR. VIRGILIO: All right.
-I plan to meet there,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
live House,
probably or
about
15 minutes away,
away it's
from very
the
five
minutes
close. MR. VIRGILIO: Right, But okay. I would plan to which

--
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: give me I plan
the information to meet Dave
about there,
entrance about
then,
probably
10:45 a.m. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, yes, sir, I would
suggest you try to arrive early, two check points you'll
because there will be through, and it's
have to go
not always the quickest. CHAIRMAN for 10:30 a.m., then. JACZKO: Okay, well, let's plan
NEAL R.GROSS
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122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in okay, that that and I quickly.. We wanted were to be going able, update with our your talking points, permission, to something? MR. BRENNER: Yes, I just wanted to check, MR. VIRGILIO: Okay. Okay, good. do you have
Eliot,
mention publically that we have two people assigned to the USAID, to provide any assistance necessary. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. talking points BRENNER: to a press Okay. And use that in our both and I
release
and a blog,
think Becky had a question. BECKY: information Yes, to all I wanted to be able to send our Congressional staff
contacts. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BECKY: you Yes.
I'm just making sure that that was reached out to your Deputy's that
had
counterparts,
and that we have somebody on the --
we can call people on the team. You know, we're monitoring the situation,
terms of the health effects in MR. BRENNER:
Alaska and Hawaii.
I'm not sure we want to get
NEAL R. GROSS
123 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 information comfortable But that, if that then problem with to be the first we've confirmed, facility, and U.S. down that road, just yet. I don't think you want
MALE PARTICIPANT:
to be talking about health effects. MR. MALE BRENNER: Yes. One, we haven't from the there
PARTICIPANT:
there has been
some large
release
and the dispersion, coast, MR. it's
certainly between
just incredible. Right, so, if confirmed that on
BRENNER:
talked to the Japanese,
that we have people
the team and the ability to talk to the Hill, them that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes. Okay, For sir. sure, I
and tell
have
no
telling that to the Hill. person publically,
I don't want any
to talk about
teams that are going. So, if AID the we the or someone teams have first else going, people person ahead on has put out I'm teams. about of
about
then the
indicating would I don't be
talking of the
want to get
rest
the Federal Government. MR. BRENNER: Got you. We'll just say
NEAL R.GROSS
124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 come down in the agency, because that we have people prepared to assist, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Perfect. Okay. Mr. also? No, I don't think so, of Chairman, do you if necessary.
want Josh to meet you there, CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
we'll probably
just have a
limited number So,
people that will be able to get in. -whoever gets that's MALE cleared, and it's
whoever just -if you
probably
said Dave,
probably more important. PARTICIPANT: if Do you want us to try
to get driver services, CHAIRMAN a car,
you want to come back? Yes, I mean, have them
JACZKO: and then if
we need to go back to
then we can just go back from there. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Or however, if he wants that out,
to use his own
car,
whatever,
you can work
whatever the best thing is MALE have a hard copy, MALE before you leave.
to do. Yes, and then we'll
PARTICIPANT: as well. PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
we'll
send
that
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. VIRGILIO:
Okay. Chairman, we're
All right,
NEAL R.GROSS
125 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 just confirming. We're emailing the package that
we're putting together, you.
and we'll have a hard copy for
Okay,
great.
All right. Thank you very much. so, now, we need
All right,
to get on that driver issue. (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
9
I0
10C 11 12 13 14 15 1I 17 18 1i 20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
126
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in, Tony, sure an email, on. MR. ULSES: Yes, so, I just want to make Am I suppose to be Ulses, (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. VIRGILIO: Tony, are you on? Tony
are you on the line? MR. MR. ULSES: Yes, sir, Okay, I I'm here. have forwarded you
VIRGILIO:
just so you're aware of what we were sending
I understand my role there. the Government
embedded with with our folks? MR.
folks,
or work
directly
VIRGILIO:
would
continue
to
take
your lead from our folks, MR. ULSES:
until directed otherwise. Okay, I thought -as I said, that
there was something in I wanted to make sure in my instructions. MR.
an email that came about, I had -I
was absolutely clear
VIRGILIO:
Right,
thanks
for
checking
but we've gotten no separate instructions to than to the
have you to report to any other structure, one that's
being established as part of the team. MR. ULSES: Okay, well, I'll stick with my
NEAL R.GROSS
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127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (CONFERENCE thank you. MR. VIRGILIO: All right, bye. you. in ground at status now? original instructions, MR. then, okay? All right, LAX, we're we'll be what's the
VIRGILIO:
Are you -MR. LAX. ULSES:
you're in Right,
right? still on the here
I'm expecting
leaving
pretty soon. MR. VIRGILIO: Okay, or in I I and what time then,
would you arrive on site, MR. on the ground p.m. in ULSES: Japan,
Japan? to be 9:00
think we're expected think they said about exactly.
local time there. MR. MR.
I'm not sure, Okay.
VIRGILIO: ULSES:
But that's
what I think I read
one of these emails. MR. Be safe. MR. ULSES: All right, Marty. All right, VIRGILIO: All right, all the best to
CALL CONCLUDED)
NEAL R.GROSS
128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. Marty Virgilio. Virgilio, MR. VIRGILIO: on. second. OPERATIONS OFFICER: Let me know, and then I'll All right, send him up. we'll hang operations (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS officer. OFFICER:
I've got
This
is
the
NRC
I'm going
to send him up to the bridge. MR. VIRGILIO: All right, hang on, just a
(OTR comments) MR. VIRGILIO: Okay.
OPERATIONS OFFICER: Can we send him up? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, please do. Okay, I'm going to
OPERATIONS
OFFICER:
send him to the executive team bride, Virgilio and a host of other people. Okay,
that has Marty
thank you. this is Marty
good morning.
All right, Bob,
thank you. It's
VIRGILIO:
good morning.
Good morning,
Marty.
I'm
NEAL R. GROSS
129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the drove condensers, this stuff, you probably to you? MR. VIRGILIO: All right, how are you? here with = is our Director of WANO
Center,
Atlanta and President of Operations at INPO. MR.
VIRGILIO:
Good morning, Marty. How are
Good morning,
Great. Marty, give you a call, I got a call from and
and your center, So,
share the information that we have. do that, if you guys are. MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, Okay, know
I'm ready to
please. I'll from start, last a lot of but
night,
what we understand, Fukushima,
the main issue is
that Unit 1 at loss of all
they had a station black-out, too. were
AC power offsite and the diesels, As an a result, isolation they
using plan
isolation to remove
condenser
decay heat from the reactor. They suppression reached pool and the as heat a capacity limit of
result, up, is
that's what psi,
what we if
containment to about
pressures 120 pounds
from the last
understand,
the last information we had from last night. NEAL R. GROSS

130
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12
At room went up
that about
time, a
dose of
rates 1,000.
in
the Our
control experts
factor
believe that's about 15 milli-rem per hour, but that's very unconfirmed, boundary, zero. Portable electric is at the site. We at that and eight time, times higher was just at the site barely above
which
believe they have batteries that are hooked up to run the DC systems requested four and the isolation condenser. They've and
emergency
diesel
generators,
they're on their way. Three of them are onsite, but as of six this morning, none of them were hooked in, Okay, probably there was saw an on the news, at the the and latest site, then as yet. you
13
14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
information, and what we
explosion
understand, of primary
that it
was a hydrogen explosion, but inside
outside secondary
containment,
containment. Primary containment tact, remains in tact, and
the reactor remains in
from our reports.
They've also successfully vented
primary containment. Yes. Reduced the pressures by over 50
25
NEAL R.GROSS
131 1
2
percent. And so, we're not sure if but
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19
that explosion was related to that venting or not, we do know it was in When understand that the secondary containment. explosion rate hour, at took the place, site
the the
we
dose
boundary
increased to 100 MR per that, it
and then shortly after
dropped to 7 MR per hour. Anything else, Yes, we probably ought to
mention that they had seen iodine and cesium, of course, indicates some fuel melt
which is and you
there,
information we got from TEPCO last night was that, know, water level continues and it to drop because
they have
no make-up capability,
was about 20 centimeters
or three feet or so, below the top of active fuel. That was around 6:30 a.m. That's right. MR. information, and VIRGILIO: I don't We had heard some into using the report we got this morning,
20 21 22 23 24 25 lines?
know how to piece this that they were doing --
what your just told me,
fire trucks to supply make-up. Have you picked up on anything along those
NEAL R. GROSS
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18
source, but we got a and that, I'm not or not. MR. VIRGILIO: sure if
132 Well, report I'm not that they sure are of in the the
process of filling containment with borated sea water, they're using fire pumps to do
Okay. Okay, that's all the
information we have on Unit 1. We have some sketchier information on the other units, on Unit 1? MR. VIRGILIO: No, and let me ask the but let's finish up. Any other questions
folks around the table.
Have we heard anything more,
to add to the story on Unit 1? MALE PARTICIPANT: Not as far as beyond above their
thait borated sea water, capacity limit, in
but are they still
the containment, They're
do we know that? design pressure,
below
19 20 21 22 23 24 2
but it's
still
elevated. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, all right, thank
you.
you know, So, as well.
The condenser,
the suppression now. that
pool there,
at saturation temperature, having to deal with
they're
problem,
NEAL R.GROSS
133
1
Yes,
we had no report
that
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10
they were able to lower suppression pool temperature. MALE maintaining we think? PARTICIPANT: at But they are that
below design pressure
this time,
MR.
Yes, VIRGILIO:
that's Tokyo Center. Okay, so, it doesn't appear
that we've go anything that we could add to the story, all right.
that are in So,
Just
so
you
know, with
we have TEPCO, here,
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
some both
contacts from EPRI
communication a liaison
and we have
engineer
that has. some contacts. we'll keep talking to you and keep you
informed. There is conference calls we're having
with NEI and EPRI and the broader industry executives, Chief Nuclear Officers, and also, the INPO Board of
Directors and the NEI Board of Directors. So, there is communication and how we can those
support and what it
means for the United States,
conversations are taking place. MR. developing all VIRGILIO: the Okay, good. Yes, we're Eliot
background
information.
Brenner has been
interacting
with some of
the media,
NEAL R.GROSS
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134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Pietrangelo communication obviously. MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, I talked to Tony wit the media and the Chairman has been engaged, downtown in in this,
going back down again for another meeting, minutes. Okay, is going and
about 45
all
our NEI,
through
this morning,
and he had passed that on, the room and so, he is aware
and Eliot just walked in of that, too.
11
12 13 14 15 16
17
-Okay.
VIRGILIO: We're trying to keep all of here at is well being aware, and each of our so, releases he is
MR.
our information coming out of Public Affairs, headquarters, coordinated too. All right, very good.
with the Chairman,
We've
18 19 20 21
22
activated our emergency plan here at INPO, also, have and any questions and or I
and NEI has if you call
are at the office, anything, you
need
can
either one of us directly.
We
have
video
capability.
23 24 25
don't know if
you guys have that,
or want to exchange
that information or not. MR. VIRGILIO: We've got video
NEAL R.GROSS
135 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11
conferencing, in this room,
as well.
I'm not sure how well it
works
but we're probably just as well off to It's probably the best way to create
use this phone. information.
We've manned our operations center. running 24 hours, through Monday, eight-hour shifts, so, at
We're
least up
right now,
maybe deeper into the week,
as things progress. Did you have any additional information,
with respect to Unit 2?
Unit good news.
has Unit
reached 2 has
cold still
shut not
12 13 14 15 16
17
down,
so,
that's
reached cold shut down, reached saturation
and its
suppression pool has as well. They're in
temperature,
the curve for that,
and are working to try, you know,
reduce the temperature there.
-And
be in a
we understand Unit 2 has the isolation little better condenser. shape up
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
a So,
(inaudible) they
system versus
might
capability. MALE PARTICIPANT: How are they cooling
the suppression pool? MR. VIRGILIO: The question was how are
they cooling the suppression pool?
Do they know?
(202) 234-4433
No.
NEAL R. GROSS
136
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 care. We'll be in MR. So, unless Marty, that? you know,
No,
we don't
know.
think, so, we
they don't have the emergency power, suppression pool cooling is
would suspect don't have it, MR.
why --
they high.
and that's why the temperature is VIRGILIO: I'm sorry,
could you repeat
I lost it. We have no information, and Dave
that they are cooling the suppression,
elaborated that. We also understand they've figured out there some is no AC power. means, it
other
would be difficult to establish cooling. MR. other questions? the information. VIRGILIO: Thank you. Right, okay, good. Any
Thank you very much for
We really appreciate it. No problem. touch. All right, thanks. All right, take
VIRGILIO:
NEALR. GROSS
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137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 severely this were (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS OFFICER: Mr. Virgilio, the
Chairman will be entering the conference. MR. VIRGILIO: All right. Chairman Jaczko,
OPERATIONS you're on the line. MR.
OFFICER:
VIRGILIO:
Chairman? Yes. here. Marty. One question or the
Marty, Hi,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I just wanted to follow up, I'm on my way House, is right what now, is
before but
I go over to -I of get the into
before status
White
the
scenarios
that we were running? MR. morning,
Did we complete that work? I had asked, run some on when I came in and we of
VIRGILIO: and we it had
scenarios,
showing that
depends
your assumptions,
course. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Okay. But if you

--
assume
damaged core,
you could go well
you could
NEAL R.GROSS
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138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have, saying with since you containment. MR. VIRGILIO: Right. Okay. But if that works, I guess go beyond the PAGS at 50 miles. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. That was with no
we could calculate last night. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE -PARTICIPANT: and I'm not Okay. And what we have sure it's when we been up
caught and in are
last, like
Chairman, was and the a
but
more event
more the that for
looking secondary the
there
hydrogen that
containment, system and
indications
primary
primary
containment,
both spill
and
(inaudible). Okay. That's the best we
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE right now. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. also hearing, is VIRGILIO: PARTICIPANT:
Okay. Just to add to that, we're
through WANO/INPO connection, So, it
that there
iodine and cesium detected.
means that they
did suffer some core damage. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
139
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 what's sense. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: And just to close the that that electrical four INPO, MR. VIRGILIO: And that the water level is
below the top of the active fuel. They support. had requested some additional three out of but per
They were delivered diesel
requested
emergency
generators,
the generators had still CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. hydrogen on VIRGILIO: explosion, order of At what
not yet been connected. Okay. the time that they had they were per seeing hour, is at
readings
the
100 milli-rem
the fence post, that,
and we've --
Nader has just picked up our Japanese equivalents, boundary
through the Japanese,
they're saying that now the dose at the site is 50 milli-rem per hour. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, so,
it
would
appear to be decreasing? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, and that would make
loop on the models that were run, data? Does someone have that
did we provide if
data then,
somebody
wants to see those results? MR. MALE (inaudible). VIRGILIO: I don't think so. They're just using
PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
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140 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, and it's --
MALE PARTICIPANT: that in the briefing package, and

--
No, sir,
we did not include that was kind of a basically taking the
very speculative
but it's
inventory of a core, CHAIRMAN just help me, just
which is JACZKO: again,

,
huge. Right, just to now, if you can the
understand
bounding. So, the extent of it's how approximately far we modeled 50 miles. out, or Is is that that
basically, relevant?
the extent to which we would see TAGS being
MR.
VIRGILIO:
think
that
would
be
extent to which we modeled. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: it's miles? from there, another 50 Okay, so, at that point, Another five
miles?
Another 10 miles?
MR. VIRGILIO:
Do you have a sense?

No, sir, I wouldn't -I
19 20 21 22 23 24
25
don't have a value for that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. measures team. CHAIRMAN
just --
Okay. Perhaps, Yes, we can try. the protective
VIRGILIO:
JACZKO:
Okay,
yes,
if
you
can
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141 1
2
MALE
got to Hawaii
--
PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
by
the
time
you
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 gas release own, here. using Okay, DOE, good, it
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE gets dispersed. CHAIRMAN well, JACZKO: PARTICIPANT:
Yes,
it's
3,000 miles. miles,
Three-thousand
Yes,
okay.
Okay,
good.
then if
we --
we did that work with also? on our we have
so,
DOE presumably, MR. the VIRGILIO:
has the results,
I thought we did it and the tools
calculations
MALE talking to IMAC, MR.
PARTICIPANT: though. VIRGILIO: Okay,
heard
they
were
so,
all
right,
good.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
So, Okay,
we'll follow up. so, it should be
somewhere within the Federal family? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, sir. Yes. Okay, and we did it 10
percent and at 40 percent release, complete? MALE with PARTICIPANT: filtering,

and --
as well?
Did those
Those were 10 percent
10 percent gas release
without
filtering,
NEAL R.GROSS
142 1 2 3 4 5 memory the MR. MALE VIRGILIO: Speak up. Hi, Chairman. My
PARTICIPANT:
from last night is a 10 percent
they modeled three things in release filtering, with filtering, and 40 a or 10 50
PMP,
percent percent,
release
without
and I'm not sure what that was.
We'll check
7 8 C 10
and get back to you. CHAIRMAN know if they're JACZKO: Okay, That's and just let me I'm
complete.
mostly
what
interested in,
right now. PARTICIPANT: We'll check on that
MALE 12 13 14 15 1E 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 25 very much. MR. shoot me

now.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: a quick email in
Okay, the next
if 15
you could just minutes about
the status of those. MR. VIRGILIO: We'll do that, Yes. Okay, good. Thank you sir.
VIRGILIO:
All right, Bye.
Chairman.
NEAL R. GROSS
143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 operations links, 10 11. 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 such, we McDermott. us, Operations Haney, Hart, Go ahead. Okay, Brian McDermott. (CONFERENCE Officer, PARTICIPANTS: Bill Roy Headquarters Sheane, Zimmerman, Dean, Kathy Ken Mark good afternoon, everybody. This is (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS officer. OFFICER: Do This me is to headquarters 'unmute' the
you want
so you can begin the brief? MR. McDERMOTT: Yes, it's Brian McDermott.
Chris Kennedy, Dave S. Lui, Evans,
Barbara Michael B.
Dusack, Johnson,
Bill
Satorius, Neller,
Howell,
Linda Howell, Eric Leeds) Okay,
Tom Boyce,
Charles
Dave Burns, MR. I'd
McDERMOTT: like to thank
this
is for
Brian joining on the
everybody is
for the update
today.
This
an update
ongoing event in NRC
Japan. remains in monitoring mode, and as the
thought it
would be important
to update
NEAL R.GROSS
144 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 confirmed sources, place primary in office offices directors in and others from the various program
the regions, and is If what doing, you've
as to what we know about the as well as the Federal
situation Government,
NRC,
in response to the event. seen the media coverage from is
over the evening,
the most significant development
shown pretty vividly on some of the video. at the Unit 1 reactor, took off the core
There was, that the
an explosion of some time, metal siding on
(inaudible)
refueling floor level. They're by seem the emails to reporting from a that we're of seeing, as
variety the
different took the
indicate
that
explosion and that
secondary as
containment well as
containment,
the reactor
coolant
system remain in tact. There is speculation that perhaps, it was
some type of hydrogen detonation,
although we do not
have any confirmation for this, at this point. The Japanese authorities, obviously, are
working hard to try to resolve the situation. know that overnight, that That they was were in venting
We do the the
primary
containment.
advance
of
explosion that you're seeing on the media. We understand that they were successful in NEAL R. GROSS
145 1 2
3
venting Unit
1 containment
and
reducing pressure
by
approximately half.
We do know that there is -the main issue
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
or the challenge
at the site is
a lack of AC power.
There have been some generators delivered to the site, but we've not received any messaging, those have actually been connected. We continue to know they DC are power, doing and some there things was to some to indicate that
supply about
information going, valves. to
them
trying to
get air some air
compressor operated
operate,
apparently
But sketchy. TEPCO,
again,
the
information
is
very from a
We're getting information
primarily
from the company website. In terms of the regulator, a general approach, their developed we understand we're trying program
they're busy and as to be respectful of
nuclear
and their capability to respond. We assistance point, have reached with the that out and offered and at need U.S. this U.S.
directly are
regulator, they
they
saying
don't
assistance. Separately, broader scale, is the U.S. at Government, to Japan on a and
looking
support
NEAL R.GROSS
146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 process Japan, of to through USAID and the State Department, an organization have one there has been and we that
of a team to deploy to Japan, staff that has
technical
accompanied
initial flight out by a Military transport. We have another staff member who is trying provide to get support Embassy. mention that the team So, is if
in
in the to or
on
a commercial either to the
flight team
directly to the U.S. I
should
primarily looking at the disaster as a whole.

there -I think we heard numbers up. in
the 70's,
terms
of
the number
of people
on that
initial
team
going over,
with USAID,
and we have one person there, expert, should that need
just to serve as a technical arise.
We understand there is
also one individual
on there from the Department of Energy. We're continuing to have our staff
interact with the other Federal agencies. staffing, here at headquarters, team available. safety been team doing and some
In terms of
we have a full liaison staffed reactor team that to have piece the
We have a partially protective 'what-ifs' measures and of the
trying scenario
together
our understanding
from
media reports and so forth. NEAL R. GROSS

147 1 2 3 4 5 But with this event and just the extreme nature of the damage in Japan, limited, to press get releases nugget the information is very from of the company. We
occasionally the IAEA,
some
information
through
or State Department channel. We're also getting some information coming
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
through INPO, the industry
by way of WANO, that are
and there are parts of mustering to offer
apparently
industry support. At this point, actual things being done, all we've heard in terms of GE is supposedly working They
with Exelon.
They were doing that last night.
were running some simulator scenarios
for the Dresden just
unit that was most similar to the affected site, to provide some information there. But that's know at this time. notes, here. about it, in terms
of what we
I'm just kind of looking over the
We do know that at Unit 1, as of 6:30 a.m.

this morning, they -we understand through one of the
WANO
contacts,
that
they
were
about
20
centimeters.
below the top of active fuel. So, have some between that of and the and fact that they
confirmation
cesium
iodine
outside
the facility,
that they likely do have core damage. NEAL R. GROSS
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148 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9
Rad levels that they were reporting at the site boundary, at an earlier point in time, were up are --
around 100 MR per hour,
and now,
we understand,
were decreasing to about seven MR per hour. Again, That's just, you no confirmation know, what we of these had numbers. to us
passed
through the WANO folks. We did, also in that report, get word from
them that they -the licensee was in the process of
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18
filling the containment with borated sea water.

That was -we heard that from WANO and
since
then,
we've
been
seeing
that
on
some
of
the
media reports, fact that they
not the borated part, were using sea
but at least the to flood the
water
containment. The information on, other units, we have very little
at this point in time.

Unit 2 was -they kind of went
Yesterday,
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
back
and
forth
between
which
unit
was
having
more
trouble. Unit 2 is have a RIK-SEA on that also an older style BWR. We have not nor had any They good had
system. unit this
updates
morning,
have we
further information on the other Unit 3, other one that was operating NEAL R.GROSS
which was the time of the
at
the
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149 1 2 3
4
earthquake. The particular site,

least --
three
remaining
units
at
this or at
first
and just so you hear the name,

Daiichi, is basically the
Fukushima
5 6 7
8
installation there.
of
Fukushima,
and
they
have
six
units
At
those six units
the time
of the earthquake,
were online,
three
of
are online --
and those
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
are the three I've just been talking about. 5 and 6 were down for refueling. Fukushima not a problem at Daiichi, time. Power Units We
Units 4,
1 through 4 are have not heard is
this
recently, also in
about the
Onagawa The
Station,
which
that vicinity.
focus has really been on
the Unit 1. There are a couple of workers that were
injured at that Unit 1, apparently,
around the time of
that explosion that you see in the video. We continuing to, did you hear know, from WANO that Unit the 2 was
work
through
station they
black-out that they're in.
The suppression pool,
said was at saturation temperature. So, condition. obviously, you know, that's not a good that they
We have not heard any reports
have restored any AC power that would enable them to NEAL R.GROSS
150
1
remove
that heat
from the
containment.
So,
reactor
2 3 4 5
safety teams continue to follow that. Marty provide this brief. the Chairman is meeting Virgilio actually, was going to
He went off to join a call with downtown, with in person, at a Deputy's agency
Committee 7 8 9 10 16 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 okay. now. So, conference,
other
department
officials at the White House. Marty was sitting in on that by video
and I take it
that ran long,
since he did
not return for this call. Okay, the third unit is in cold shut down,
Unit 1 and Unit 2 are the (inaudible) right
Okay,
at
this point,
I've
kind of given you've had
you all a bunch of information. some insights.
Hopefully,
We are working up questions focused on the U.S. situation.
and answers,
Everybody knows by now
that the tsunami didn't have any significant effect on the U.S. These questions and answers are more about the ability of our facilities to withstand earthquakes and those type of issues. There are also talking points that Public Affairs have put together for the Chairman. At this
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151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 States, headquarters, interactions to keep point, we're prepared to answer questions and I think, share of that. we're trying of inquiries external
Public Affairs has got the lion's
They've been dealing with -things come focused. into the So, in terms
that
agency,
and
communications, affairs. We
we want to keep that focused on public
have to
our
liaison a
team
here focus
at for
provide
central
with the other departments
and agencies,
things that may come up or other inquiries we get from partners and so forth, we'd like them channeled to either
through the headquarters
operations officer,
that liaison team or Public Affairs. MALE Brian? MR. to liaison team. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. McDERMOTT: Okay. And at this point, I've McDERMOTT: Yes, the States would go PARTICIPANT: Does that include the
probably talked enough. the room here, guys?
Am I missing anything around
MALE
PARTICIPANT:
Can
ask what
states
have an interest and what their interest is? MR. COLLINS: This is Elmo in Region IV.
NEAL R.GROSS
152 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 detectable -elevated of the conference We got an inquire who from (inaudible) what on, from the State they with of
Washington, or what we
was wondering was to going the
could expect respect to
thought releases etcetera. MALE call
radiation monitoring,
atmosphere,
atmospheric
PARTICIPANT:
just
got
off ESF8,
with Health and Human Services, together and so
and USDA and FDA are putting at those kinds of scenarios
a team to look forth. So, the
answer is
probably nothing. MALE PARTICIPANT: at this Yes, I mean, there in is terms no
dispersion,
point, okay.
indication of a major release, So,
we know there is in
going to be some rad you would expect after
rad levels the
the area,
with
venting,
primary
containment,
uncovering part of the core, some products getting out. But in would transport all to Hawaii. At
that you're going to have
no way are we seeing anything that the way to the United States, this point, there is just even no
information that would indicate that there is of that magnitude. In down terms the of something if this being were
anything
potentially to further
road,
NEAL R.GROSS
153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we do have earthquake (inaudible). far, in, degrade, provided consider, monitoring provide worse. They have deployable monitoring capability in their toolkit. MALE PARTICIPANT: Brian, in this is I, Dave so one of the DHS a was recommendations a that we've EPA some to get
through in
recommendation way,
that
proactive
deploying
equipment, hard
so that they would be able should the situation
some
facts,
Also,
from the states
Region
Massachusetts and there, in
and Pennsylvania have been calling sense was about the is that they were to and fleet
the general what the NRC
interested
doing, this
relative event
communications providing
publically of
reassurance
current
nuclear
within the U.S. I think we've been passing that through to the Public Affairs Officer, up to that group, but that said, I think we need to be cautious about how forward relative to what we want to say. We
leaning we are,
can or can't withstand, the tsunami. MR.
given the impact on Japan from
McDERMOTT:
Yes,. Dave, prepared. was sort
and you know, After of a the last round of
some questions in Japan, there
NEAL R.GROSS
154 1 2 3 4 5 is questions about what can the U.S. so, sites withstand, and
we do have some of those answers prepared. One of the things we probably ought to do get some of those back out to the people that are so, that's something that we can take as
on this call, an action,
that would be for your information. We still would like to stick with Public
7 8
Affairs and the liaison team, of communication,
as a main outward source
but just so you all see what we're probably a good thing to share that
10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
speaking to, information.
it's
You know, just having, eastern time, opportunity
one of the conversations we were
as the clock rolls around to noon here, was to that, have you know, some should we have an with our
interactions
Japanese counterparts,
what are some of the key pieces
of information we would want to understand from them about their facilities, you know, not to interfere
with their response basis, obviously. But as we try to formulate our strategies of communication, what is different about the U.S.
designs and the Japanese installations? We specifics knowing it's of have very their limited you information know, on the than that
designs,
other
a GE3 with a
(inaudible),
you know,
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155
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
kind of stuff. One of the key issues, obviously, given
what we saw this morning with secondary containment is taking us back to 1989 generic communication and the
whole issue of the harden vent that was installed on the MARK1 containment.
So, we do not know if the -you know, the
Japanese
installed
regulator
at this
required
facility,
that,
but
or whether
that would
it
--
was
you
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
know, others.
that might be an important distinction amongst
We're seismic has design, as
asking those well, the the but
questions clearly, I
relative know
to
you
this was know,
exceeded
what during
regulator, seismic
think, you
anticipating
activity,
just given the impact on the facility. MALE careful in PARTICIPANT: Yes, anything in I would that terms just be supposes of, you
communicating between U.S.
differences know, you
and Japan,
not potentially either embarrassing or somehow, know, pointing why, you know, their plants So, or that
their regulatory authority may be inferior. is a slippery slope to walk on. MR. McDERMOTT: Yes,
understand. this is,
The
other interesting piece
for us in
you know,
NEAL R.GROSS
156 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 please fine, Eric. MR. MALE confirm LEEDS: Okay, thank you. Brian, going I just want to to have our and to the Leeds. who worked when generic events, GSI you 199 on the we've that. operation, frequency had a of severe
seismic strategy
know, with
communication We've if you got a
associated for
justification
continued
will,
associated with that for certain facilities. And on we've issue, and so, getting the who who are are right people in here the the being whole well,
that, done, and
familiar familiar sure deal
with with
messaging technical consistent
making as we
we're this
accurate,
with
topic of seismic,
I think is
something we're --
we are being sensitive to. MR. LEEDS: Hey, Brian, this is Eric
Quick question. You know, liaison are we want to direct people to OPA team. If we get contacted to the there
personally, 'who'
we going number,
to direct and have
them them
just get
telephone 'who',
through the should use?
or are there
other numbers that we
MR.
McDERMOTT:
Yes,
through
the
'who'
is
PARTICIPANT: that we're
NEAL R.GROSS
157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 OPA and With have respect a coming pool, out use Any the Commissioner's assistance Is briefing at true, that is Okay, to call call 3:30 sir? our plan. folks, this up please number. the ops eastern
standard time today. MR. MALE same
that still Yes,
McDERMOTT:
PARTICIPANT: you used
process or
questions
comments,
just
center.
Thank you. MALE from PARTICIPANT: Unit Brian, to any information the spent fuel
1, relative
given that there was an explosion in
the reactor
building? MR. anything on that. boiling in hear that in McDERMOTT: No, we've not seen of
We had some unconfirmed reports but
some of the other pools,
I didn't even
the context of which unit. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. to COLLINS: the Q's at Hey, Thanks. Brian, on this the is Elmo. we
and A's
seismic, with for
specific fault
issue that
Diablo Canyon been
a newly a I year just
discovered
we've
working
and a half or want If to -I
so,
and the communication that OPA has that
plan,
believe
information.
they don't, MR. make
we can get it McDERMOTT: sure that
up there to them. Okay, we're well, on we'll talk to same page,
the
NEAL R.GROSS
158 1 2 3 4 5 6 This relative to that, MR. Elmo. JOHNSON: Thanks. Hey, and Brian. Mike Johnson. I
has been very helpful
I'm just wondering, who they'll
know that a bunch figure out what is
of NRC employees going on, and
are trying to also have
communications.
7
8 we've given
I wonder -some have
and I've been watching, there have I been wonder
I know press if it the get own. same very
updates, been while page try to to
releases 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 helpful, wouldn't staff on
that be
published. to get that take OPA," us,
worth web
a message "Hey, on, sort I on of
out to if you your the is
our
says, this or
questions,
don't
Just. direct message helpful, that
people you've
given
which
think
about how we communicate about this. MR. McDERMOTT: Yes, thanks, Mike. we We did initiated
that yesterday and I
think this morning,
efforts to put out another all-staff I don't know if it's
email. gone out, yet, but
we'll check on that. way,
But the web page is
also another
our internal web page is So, MR. thanks. MALE PARTICIPANT:
another way to get that Thank you. That's very
message out.
we'll take that back. JOHNSON: Thank you.
Yes,
would
assume
NEAL R. GROSS
159 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 walked back before he left MR. into Vic. VICTOR: Okay. Eliot and I spoke about make sure forwarded about of pressing in that bit, at as a we're well? MR. BRENNER: Hey, it's Eliot. Yes, we're doing things with the external web page, as
the news releases, minimally as the and
when we have something the ball a little I'm and
least far
advances is up
agency putting
concerned, some
and
running
blog
schematics
stuff like that. MALE PARTICIPANT: VICTOR: an email I Brian, got from Okay, this the thanks, is CNO in
--
Eliot. Victor. Region I II
our one o'clock 1500 NEI phone call, and
and SAID he
NEI Board me to
Directors
invited
participate.
forwarded he
that
to
you out
-to
to Marty, either
to Mark
that
would
reach
(inaudible)
or Tony Pietrangelo,
to make sure that it
was appropriate that we be on the call. Do you know if he was able to do that
for downtown? McDERMOTT: the room, No, and actually, I'm Marty just him
just handing
your email,
MALE PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
160 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the call question, with Scott couple Peterson. it, as I was leaving the room. MALE PARTICIPANT: And I spoke with Scott
I did not get an invite
for Public Affairs
to be on their call. MALE of hours PARTICIPANT: ago, I'd {interference} from Jim,
--
gotten a call
who
invited either me or you,
but suggested that we reach
out to either Mark or Tony before dialing in. MALE PARTICIPANT: my I am staying in But I touch not
Peterson,
counterpart.
was
invited to go onto a call. MR. well, SHARON: This is Brian Sharon. Quick
not question,
but I've gotten a couple
of emails here today, and they're all a the bit, can we you go --
from some of the National Labs,
there are a couple of them chomping know, saying, this," "Ghee, with can the we help? and
Ghee, all
calculate
codes
that stuff. I scenario," DOE and tell keep telling but you them, "No, you don't know to
know,
somebody might
want
them to tell
their labs to cool it, the labs going off, and
because the last thing we want is talking all to the press, of at other the bit, talking
about consequences you know, and
sorts
stuff, to
because do
they're I'm not
chomping
something,
NEAL R. GROSS
161
1 2 sure, Eliot, maybe you've got a point of contact up
there at DOE?
3 4 5 6 7 8 that? Press
MR. Secretary,
BRENNER: asking
I'll him,
send
note his
to
their to
through
chain,
reach out, If
down to the labs and tell
them to back off.
we've got other chains, MALE
we might as well -If I could chime in I on
PARTICIPANT: call
On the Deputy's
yesterday,
was on with
the Chairman, 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 action So, I agree, at DOE.
and Pete Lyons was one of the principals
Lyons may be a good source to contact at DOE. MR. JOHNSON: it This is Mike Johnson. My
other thought was, just to pass the say, "Knock it
may be just to cut to the chase, to call the lab directors messages we want and to
same,
off,"
or whatever
get to them. There are a number of ways we can do this. Brian, we've got to do it Okay, soon. take that or
MR. from
McDERMOTT: headquarters.
we'll
Other
thoughts
questions? MALE PARTICIPANT: Maybe I was talking to so, I
somebody else or just talking at the same time, don't know if Deputy's Chairman. call I got through, yesterday
but Pete Lyons was on the I was role on with the
that
Lyons has got a large
to play at DOE
NEAL R.GROSS
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162 1 2 3 4 5 on this. directors. MR. McDERMOTT: Yes, we copied that, and He may be a good one, also, besides the lab
we've been actually forwarding him the updates. in touch with him and we'll follow up. MALE PARTICIPANT: Thank you. this is Vic, on
We're
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I call? Vic? again. I
VICTOR: didn't get
Yes,
Brian, from
once he
closure
Marty,
how
wants to go forward on the NEI call. MR. considering that. VICTOR: MR. Okay. Can we get back to you, McDERMOTT: I think he's still
McDERMOTT:
VICTOR: MR. MALE
Sure,
no problem. Okay. Directing from the
McDERMOTT:
PARTICIPANT:
MR.
McDERMOTT:
I've got a whole list
that
think we ought to discuss,
and then we'll get back
out to the stakeholders. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. of information, There McDERMOTT: Okay. There is one other nugget
people might know people. 40 individuals from GE that were
were
NEAL R.GROSS
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163 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22
actually
asked,
at this facility,
taking part in
the
refueling of the three units. We understand that out of the 40 people, four were contaminated, but the State Department and
GE are working to pull them back to Tokyo and to get them whatever assistance they need to get back to the States. Okay, that's all we have at this point.
We will try to get some more all. We'll share the Q and
information out to you A's, and the talking
points, *just for awareness. But again, let's use the focus points
through the ops officer, We'll get a
to direct external inquiries. to the staff at large,
message. out
through email,
and we'll also try to get something on with that same message.
the internal web page,
We have a chance to talk to OPA about the seismic issue, particular plan So, to Diablo with Canyon that, and that the was
communications already ongoing.
associated
we'll follow up on that.
We understand the States are interested in

what the NRC might be saying, to -we will report the
23 24
25
idea that the U.S.
facilities are safe, okay. So,
and you know, we understand
their continued operation is

that general thrust is --
NEAL R.GROSS
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164 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 also, email I I dial in. MALE PARTICIPANT: just had -Brian, gotten I just Okay, hey, by the way, to you, an at and the to be any MALE general thrust. MR. McDERMOTT: Right, and we got the PARTICIPANT: That's kind of the
action to go back with the labs. MALE plans PARTICIPANT: for another Brian, call, is there call going on a
update
regular basis? MR. RA's McDERMOTT: should be Well, in the office directors on that 3:30 p.m.
pulled
Commissioner assistance call. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE same phone number? MR. McDERMOTT: Yes, same information to PARTICIPANT: Okay. You said that's the
forwarded from Bob
earlier
Barry
Brookhaven, Japan,
and he's been in guy,
contact
with some guy in amount of what information said I in he the
a Japanese
who had a fair a lot of the what you
looked like -sent was
you know,
consistent
with
briefing,
and he had a little
bit more.
forwarded
that to you. MR. McDERMOTT: Thank you.
NEAL R. GROSS
165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 MALE PARTICIPANT: Do you want me to just
forward that kind of stuff? MR. McDERMOTT: Yes, please.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. McDERMOTT:
Okay. thanks, everybody.
Okay,
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
Thanks,
Brian.
Thanks a lot.
i0
10c 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
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166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 items, on who, and I Virgilio. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. VIRGILIO: Can you try to contact the
Chairman on his mobile phone? be in transit,
We understand he could
back from the meeting downtown. OPERATIONS OFFICER: I will attempt to
make that contact and transfer him over to you. OPERATIONS OFFICER: up on the bridge. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Hello? Chairman, this center. is Marty We had The Chairman is coming
We're here in
the operations
an opportunity to monitor the call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Okay, good.
I know you took some action sure that we're clear
just it
want to make
because
was very difficult
for us to tell to.
via phone,
who you were making the commitments CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, good.
Do you want
to walk through them? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, you want me to start?
NEAL R.GROSS
167 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 there? MALE PARTICIPANT: Press Officer? Is Is this the White House can detect start? MR. in VIRGILIO: the call, Okay, that it seems, was from what I reports of CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, why don't you
there
sharing and building on the NRC to the CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: I Yes.
(inaudible)?
couldn't quite
tell
who
we're suppose to send those to. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Is Eliot
that who that is? JACZKO: Yes, it's
CHAIRMAN
14C
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to me? MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BRENNER: NEAL R. GROSS
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. MR. BRENNER: Yes, VIRGILIO:
Okay. Did you get that, Eliot? I got it.
Eliot has got it. Okay, and if you can get
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: a copy to DOE, as well.
Yes. Can you repeat it back
Eliot? Yes, it's
168 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to pulse open line bit unclear be issue Department there. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN you've contacted. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. on my list VIRGILIO: was, I've got it. Okay. I've got it. Okay, Chairman, the next JACZKO: Correct. And for DOE, I don't it's? whoever guy, and and we're I've got the the Energy over
shipping
Q&A's
know,
IAEA was
requesting
us to open
up lines of communication on modeling. CHAIRMAN to me. to do JACZKO: I think that. See, there I'm that was was not talk sure, a little that to we
should
able
what
extent we need to. But to let's or just make whatever sure the that we have an protocol is, so
IAEA,
that we can use them as a resource. The discussion was that we would not need the Japanese as much, because we would have
them as a contact. MR. VIRGILIO: And that, I think, led to
everybody using the ENAC system?
NEAL R.GROSS
169 1 2 3 4 5 could to CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. engage, VIRGILIO: and to I Yes. So, it seemed that if you
think our best make sure the
strategy would be expectations were
engage
IAEA
clear. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Correct. in fact, will be one
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We'll also States,
MR. of the contacts.
VIRGILIO:
They,
Correct. and we're looking for
Okay,
them to get information and input from the Japanese? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. Chairman, it VIRGILIO: that Yes. Okay. I'll reach across as to the
same had come
well,
and I didn't --
wasn't quite clear to me,
as to who
took the lead on that,
but I think that we're going to to include somebody that can as well. Okay, And because start we're good. some outreach. from
step up our liaison team, interact with the States,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: DOE,
engage
getting
other sources,
that the labs are starting to pulse us, and we think the best thing, to have DOE turn that off. JACZKO: Okay, yes, I think
about wanting to engage, at this point, to do is
CHAIRMAN
NEAL R. GROSS
170 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 focused on, clearance If enough. CHAIRMAN given, I JACZKO: if Although, there was up. we sanitize then for up? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN us, is to JACZKO: continue No. And to a primary on focus, that's good. MR. VIRGILIO: So, we'll do that. Okay. Other actions you picked
focus
providing
timely and accurate communication. MR. our VIRGILIO: Q's and Okay, A's, toward that end, and post them can on a
website? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: No, at this point, all
of the public communication needs to be coordinated. So, by communications at this point, within the Federal Got it, family. all right, good let's
continue to keep it MR.
VIRGILIO:
don't know
you picked that
we want to highlight that we do have members of a that is acceptable. MR. VIRGILIO: Okay, all So, right. just keep folks it
team,
CHAIRMAN if
JACZKO:
we get new information,
summarizing
NEAL R.GROSS
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171 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 good. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: It Okay. would be another source idea? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, I think it would be an industry good shape. the to follow and can, distributing it as quickly family. Okay, It's now, go ahead. and accurately as we
within the Federal MR.
VIRGILIO:
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. up VIRGILIO: on,
okay. else you want of us
Anything as a
Chairman,
result
that
meeting? CHAIRMAN Let's JACZKO: just keep No, I think we're in
plugging it
away, and
keep keep
getting making it
information
and
processing
accurate. MR. in VIRGILIO: (inaudible) we're not All right. call Now, today to, there at is one I
phone
o'clock,
that
currently if
invited
but
could do some outreach
and see
we can get invited,
and to say what they have to say. I think it add to the conversation. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Do you think it's a good would be guarded about what we
of information for us.
NEAL R.GROSS
172 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 good shape. MR. VIRGILIO: Are you coming back here or that's all CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. we VIRGILIO: Pursue it. All right, thanks. Okay, have
had at this point.
Anybody else
anything,
Chairman? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: No, I think we're in
are you headed home? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: What is your
10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
recommendation? MR. VIRGILIO: I don't know that there's
any reason that you come back here, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: head home and try -rest, and but keep -I'll Okay,
at this point. then I'll probably bit of low
try and get a little again, keep if set know the
threshold is
for keeping me news, give you me a know, ring,
informed
and even at a me
there
no new just new
just maybe just to let
frequency, there's no
developments. MR. VIRGILIO: Okay, and then again, we
have the 3:30 conference call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. that, too. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, good. VIRGILIO: Okay, So, we good. could bring in on
NEAL R.GROSS
173 MR. a lot. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 4 MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: E 7 (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED) Okay, thanks, everybody. VIRGILIO: All right, Chairman, thanks
Thank you. Bye.
11
12
114 1E 17 14 17 15 12C 20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
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174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 call. ahead Brian. the (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MICHAEL: Hi, this is Michael Dunick
(phonetic) and Jason Kozal. McDermott on a separate line? MR. We're McDERMOTT:
Can you please
get Brian
Okay,
yes,
Mike,
this
is
trying to get the Operations Can we get them to put
Officer on you on a
line,
here. line,
different
and we want Is
to make
an outgoing call
through this line. MICHAEL: another room. MR. and make
the Ops Officer on the line? I'll probably have to go to
McDERMOTT: our call.
Okay, I don't
we're
going
to
go
know why Mike.
we don't
have them,
but we'll look into that, If you drop off -is
there --
do you have
some urgent news for us? MICHAEL: I mean, MR. compare notes, I was actually on the Deputy's
I just have some updates to share. McDERMOTT: Mike, so did I. So, we'll
after we make this next call.
NEAL R.GROSS
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175 1 2 3 4 5 MICHAEL: MR. Okay. Okay, Mike, thanks.
McDERMOTT:
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
(CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS heading up to the bridge. MR. MR. Baskin. MR. McDermott. MR. MR. MR. briefly, but the again, BASKIN: Hey, Brian. How are you? McDERMOTT: Hey, Josh, it's Brian McDERMOTT: BASKIN: Okay. Hello, folks. This is Josh OFFICER: Josh Baskin is
McDERMOTT: BASKIN: amplify and staff
All right. I just wanted to very said, put help
something answers has
the
Chairman folks to,
questions and the
that
have to
together
contributed
assist the liaison team, We've got, around now.
are great. we've gotten those the Chairman
as you know,
The next iteration, if
though,
would be very appreciative on those,
folks could keep working
and keep drilling down and getting a little
NEAL R.GROSS
176 1 2 3 4 5 and used, bit more detail. The it's more 1 widely that going those to are lead accepted to more
probably
questions,
you know, So, if
the next layer down. folks could continue to turn on
6
7
those
maybe
and update,
go one level
keep
of
them updated,
detail down,
but also,
or be ready
just
to,
that would be helpful.

MR.
Does that make sense?

Yes, it does make sense,
McDERMOTT:
10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
and we were
the reactor
thinking the same.

safety team to start
We've
already asked
-sort
doing those
of those
'what-its',
you know,
broader questions,
as
well as detailed. MR.

then well, I think
BASKIN:
all
Great,
I had.
excellent.
Is OCA in
Okay,
there,
and
as
that's
right now? MR. McDERMOTT: We have representation, I
believe,
on the liaison team. MR. BASKIN: Okay, I will call back after
that.
Thank you. MR. MR. MR. MR. McDERMOTT: BASKING: McDERMOTT: BASKIN: Okay. Talk to you later. All right.
Okay.
NEAL R. GROSS
177 1 2 3 4 5
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
(CONFERENCE
CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS OFFICER: This is the 'who'.
Chairman is
coming up on the bridge. MR. McDERMOTT: Chairman, this is Brian
McDermott. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. McDERMOTT: How are you? All right. A couple of things.
CHAIRMAN Josh is
JACZKO:
probably going to call too. can have
you in
a few minutes,
and kind of give you this, But especially since if we we don't
continue, an active
you plant
know, that
we're truly monitoring, on getting be more useful and for
can we continue to pulse down detailed and information those kinds that of
more
would things?
briefings
MR.
McDERMOTT:
Yes,
sir.
We did --
just
had
conversation
with
Josh,
about
that,
and
we've
already tasked the reactor
safety team folks that are
NEAL R. GROSS
178 1 2 3 4 5 emphasize here, the to take next the existing Q&A's, of information, not only go down to but also to look
level as well.
broader,
CHAIRMAN with them,
JACZKO: that to
Good,
and
can put
you their
periodically
thoughts down on paper, 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 anticipate course, Jim Trapp, email. I thing, moment's notice? MR. MR.
because we may need those at a
McDERMOTT: VIRGILIO:
Yes,
sir,
we'll do that.
We're doing it. Excellent. The other
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
do we have an update on our travelers? MR. VIRGILIO: We had a phone call from
and we've been
communicating still
with them by
think his flight is
scheduled to leave
at 4:30 p.m. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. and we were -the plane. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Okay. So, only assuming by this that VIRGILIO: Okay. Tony called in from LAX,
they said they were loading supplies on
because we haven't heard back from Tony, the air. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: him calling in, Okay, then, okay, good.
they're in
Do we on the
when he gets
NEAL R.GROSS
179 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 confused team, is so, talked take about lead satellite back. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: clearly defined, MR. Okay, and does he have a ground? MR. phone. VIRGILIO: So, we're Yes, he has him got to the check
expecting
kind of mission, VIRGILIO: and then team. No,
when he gets there? you know, he you and I
that,
asked him to, We weren't
know, him
his
from the
giving
any different directions or specific instructions that might run contrary to what the team was suppose to do. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: he knows where he Okay, suppose good, but he has a
to go and who. he
suppose to take orders from? MR. VIRGILIO: Yes. Okay, good, excellent.
And I think he was a little and I'm glad we had a chance
on that point,
to talk to him. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: keep me posted, MR. Good, good. Okay,
well,
some things changes. VIRGILIO: Okay, you had heard that with
they are going to be flooding probably borated sea water? CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
up the containment
Okay,
yes,
had
heard
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180 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19
that. MR. that we had VIRGILIO: and Okay, we're that was IAEA the to last make
heard,
engaging
sure that we try to force them into the -point of contact box. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. some follow-up VIRGILIO: actions, Yes, So, for good.
you're the
we're the
trying results
to of
take the
meeting. CHAIRMAN and if JACZKO: Okay, good, let excellent,
you establish something there, MR. VIRGILIO: Okay. Okay,
me know.
CHAIRMAN Marty. MR. MR. heard that
JACZKO:
good,
thank
you,
VIRGILIO: McDERMOTT:
Okay. This is got Brian. a We've also request for
actually, from FEMA,

are
we've to tell
information in
-nuclear sites
them which sites are

near the (inaudible)
located
20 21 22 23 24 25
fault. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR.

during the call,
Okay. Apparently, that came

actually
McDERMOTT:
while --
up
well,
it
came
through the date call,
now. Okay, good.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
NEAL R.GROSS
181
1
2 3 4 5 else, 7 8 anything. have that
MR. list,
McDERMOTT: too, designs as
So,
we'll as
make the
sure
we
well
back-up But
information
on the
of those
facilities. as well.
we'll put that to the reactor safety team, CHAIRMAN at this point? MR. VIRGILIO: No, I can't JACZKO: Excellent.
Anything
think
of
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RSLO's, know, think. CHAIRMAN should be doing? MR. consistent VIRGILIO: with what JACZKO: terms point? MR. VIRGILIO: of what our public
How are you feeling, is, at
in
communication
this
We should be doing more,
What
do
you
think
we
Well, you
know
that, at
you the
talked
about
Deputy's meeting, States.
I think we need to do more with the
Okay. our State
And particularly,
the regional state liaison officers. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. VIRGILIO: Yes. They're getting in peppered
with phone calls from their contacts,
the States.
NEAL R. GROSS
182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Brian, that at I it's mostly it's So, too. MR. VIRGILIO: Yes, I don't know that public, start CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. opening up, contact, VIRGILIO: Okay.' So, I think we in need to
and we are. and we
We brought
a state
liaison
are starting to open up some
lines of communication with them. CHAIRMAN like the JACZKO: do Okay, you in terms we of the be
media,
think
should
saying more,
there? MR. VIRGILIO: Let me look to Eliot. I just talked to Eliot.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
I just want to double-back and get your thoughts,
we're getting any inquiries in CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. inevitable McDERMOTT: that I
here to the Ops Center. Okay. think we going kind of think to get those
we're
questions and calls for comparisons of U.S. to Japan. MR. the VIRGILIO: States that Yes, are but at
facilities
the to
moment, us
trying
engage
and get information. CHAIRMAN think, any keep JACZKO: that in Okay, okay, good. So,
the back of we could start
your mind, getting
moment's
notice,
NEAL R.GROSS
183 1 2 3 4 5 well, thanks, those in. MR. McDERMOTT: Understand. Okay, up. All ri ight, thanks, good. All right, calls and we want to be ready, when they come
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: everybody.
Keep it
6
7 8 9 10 Chairman.
MR.
VIRGILIO:
Okay,
bye.
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
184 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 .16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any support? the public, has just ET. MR. GROVE: I apologize, I was just (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS entering the bridge. Mr. Grove, you're on the bridge with the OFFICER: Jack Grove is
wanting to talk to Brian, you guys need. MR. gotten VIRGILIO: back,
to see what kind of support
Jack, talked
it's to
Marty, the
and Brian in the
folks
reactor
safety team. But right now, what we're focused on is
writing up some
questions
and answers,
mostly getting
the questions out, we're going to get, MR. MR.
you know, in
as to what can we expect
terms of questions. Yes. You know, from Congress or
GROVE:
VIRGILIO:
over the next few weeks to few months. MR. GROVE: Yes. So, is Japan asking for
NEAL R.GROSS
185 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 go from watch. I right now. from Dulles. MR. GROVE: Okay, good. Are we going to we're said, "No, MR. MR. MR. VIRGILIO: GROVE: No, No. okay. We've offered and they've
VIRGILIO:
they don't need any." MR. MR. GROVE: All right. VIRGILIO: However, we are sent
--
sending our staff to,
two of our staff members,
Tony Ulses and Jim Trapp, team. MR. MR. Jim GROVE:
as part of an international
Cool. And Tony is in the air
VIRGILIO: is waiting
for his
flight
to depart
plan on continuing to man the center? MR. think VIRGILIO: at least Yes, right we're now, setting we're up a
setting
ourselves up to go through Monday. MR. GROVE: Okay. And then we'll see where we and I have set up eight-
MR. VIRGILIO: there. Bill, Mike
hour rotations. MR. GROVE: Okay. At least for the moment. do you need any help?
MR. VIRGILIO: MR. GROVE:
Okay,
NEAL R.GROSS
186 MR. the offer. MR. GROVE: Okay, just let me know. I'll VIRGILIO: We might. Thank you for
be home the rest of the day. MR. MR. MR. MR. (CONFERENCE VIRGILIO: GROVE: Okay. thanks. you're welcome.
Okay,
VIRGILIO: GROVE:
All right,
Bye-bye.
CALL CONCLUDED)
NEAL R.GROSS
187 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the options is like. MR. MR. trying to get in R-Y. Now, if you can't is get his number, our -one of who McDERMOTT: VIRGILIO: Okay. Okay, Mr. the individual we're Denny Flory, F-L-OCenter, We'd here, like on the line? OPERATIONS OFFICER: MR. to McDERMOTT: enable a Okay, This is who? a request. the bridge, or (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. McDERMOTT: Is the Operations Officer
we have on
conversation
for Marty Virgilio to reach out to a manager,
a counterpart over at IAEA. Can you work through their Operations
to make that happen for us? OPERATIONS OFFICER: We can do anything you
touch with is
we might have
Mark Shafer,
our liaison over in
Vienna.
We ought to be able to
raise Mark.
NEAL R.GROSS
188 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we now, speak. or 41, parties brief? OPERATIONS OFFICER: It no, looks 42, like now, we've They are convening as got 42 people, right (inaudible) get in OPERATIONS OFFICER: touch with Mr. MR. Okay, so, we'll try to
Denny Flory at the IAEA. Just start there, okay?
VIRGILIO:
OPERATIONS OFFICER: All right, making those calls now. MR. VIRGILIO: Thank you.
we'll start
(OTR comments) OPERATIONS OFFICER: Jason Kozal and Mike
are coming up on the bridge. MR. McDERMOTT: This is Brian McDermott.
Operations Officer? OPERATIONS OFFICER: MR. convened McDERMOTT: for the This is. do we have the
Okay,
Commissioner
assistance
and you want us to
'unmute'
the bridge right now, MR.
and get ready? Are they coming on in such
McDERMOTT:
a way that you'll have a roster playback? OPERATIONS roster playback. MR. them a minute McDERMOTT: Okay, why don't we give you OFFICER: Yes, we will have a
to complete calling in,
and then if
NEAL R. GROSS
189 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 continue to This quick is 'unmute' would start us off with the roster playback. OPERATIONS right now, OFFICER: that Okay, you'll we're going to have the bridge
so,
and you together then. 16: Okay.
(OTR comments) (CONFERENCE Russ Kennedy, Camper, Wilters, Johnson, Smith, Hart, Boyse, PARTICIPANTS: Eric Leeds, N. Kathy Haney, Tom B. Farnold, Wilde, M.
Ben Dottleman, Shane, Michael Gregory
Mike Franovich, Mike Davie
Super,
Bill
Snodderly, Lui,
Marshall, Scott Moore, Dan
Michael Brian Ben John Mark
Randy Voster, Elena
Ed Kaffleman, T. McFlee,
Galloway, Hauhn, Dixon,
Riley, Doane,
Matthew Bill
Margie Art
Greg
Warnick,
Howell,
Satorius,
Charles Neller,
Linda Howell,
Elmo Collins,
Roy Zimmerman
(multiple inaudible's}) BORCHARDT: Borchardt. of what we Good afternoon, I'll know, try and to a everybody. a bit real of
MR. Bill
give
summary
little
what we don't know. So, I need to preface by saying, in as an environment a high of we really limited of
operate as far
information, confidence.
having
degree
There
has
been
very
limited
information
NEAL R.GROSS
190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 coming directly from Japan, or for the
--
from
the,
Japanese regulators. So, some coming we have a number of different sources, inside Japan, others coming there is
from sources
via other Government agencies, a fair amount of news coverage.
and of course,
I've been watching the news coverage several is, hours, earlier today, there is and you know,
for
my view
the majority of it, in it,
elements of truth and
accuracy
but there are some things that we're
not quite certain at all, are accurate. So, Fukushima site, the attention is There other units, had been in I'm going to limit my topics to the
and just for background, on Unit 1, at that site. is very little
nearly all of
information
on
the that
but we believe that Units 2 and 3, operational status, have been
shut down
safely and there is at least currently,

--
all indications that the reactor, is not being threatened and is in
is
being cooled.
21 22
23
Units 4, So,
a --
5 and 6 were already shut down. But there was
that mitigates a potential problem.

you know,
an ongoing significant event at Unit 1.
24 25 trips, as
What we think happened you would have
is
that the plant The diesel
expected.
NEAL R.GROSS
191 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14
started,
but
when the the fuel
tsunami flow. I
wave came think the
through, tanks
it are
interrupted above ground,
as best we understand. So, it either took out the tanks So, or the a
piping going to the diesels. station black-out. It this point is looks as,
they ended up in
I think our best estimate at the
that at least for some time period, at least partially,
core was uncovered,
and that there
was some fuel damage. If you have been watching the TV, you've
seen the explosion at the top of the reactor building. Our best understanding right now is that it is more
than likely to have been a --
either a steam explosion
15 16 17 18 19
20
or a hydrogen explosion. If it was hydrogen, it's likely, them
trying to de-pressurize gas treatment,
the containment with stand-by the upper
some build up of hydrogen in
area of the reactor building, and then an explosion.

So, there is -all of that (inaudible) or
21 22 23 24 25
metal plates,
roofing material that's typical of those easily blew off and what you saw you know, there is rather some
(inaudible) boilers,
on the TV was a lot of debris and, dramatic smoke cloud, but so,
uncertainty,
as to what the exact cause of that was. NEAL R.GROSS

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192 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 progress
We believe sea water in
right now that they are using ways, to help stabilize
two different
Unit 1. The first is somehow, they might be
putting in borated sea water and getting that injected into the reactor vessel, somehow. We don't know what
the injection source of that is. The second activity in is that they're engaged
essentially using sea water to fill
the basement
of the reactor building to provide external cooling to the source. Both

and
of
those
some --
activities
having
seem
some
to be
in
in
making
success,
14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
that it
seems like we're not getting any indication of
a degrading core condition. So, that's, I think, about as much as I'm concerned.
going to talk about,
as far as Unit 1 is
There was a Deputy's meeting at 11 o'clock this morning, plant. Only with a significant focus on the nuclear a couple of things to say about the
Deputy's meeting. The disaster assistance response team will likely go into place, right, okay. FEMA, or go into place on Sunday, in fact, So, has shut down all
their
response to this event.
they've gone into normal
NEAL R.GROSS
193 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IAEA. now, Japan weekend mode. We have two NRC staff that are en route to right now. One I is with the USAID group on a sometime
Military aircraft. this evening,
think he will arrive
this evening our time. on a commercial I guess it flight, and
The other is he will arrive probably, mid-day, Japan.
would be Sunday, time in
I think would be the normal arrival
I would say that NRC,
our activities right
we have four primary objectives. The first one is obviously, to continue in
monitoring to the best that we can of the events Japan.
The second has to do with some outreach to As you could understand, and everybody else in the regulator and the Japan is in overload, level
operator
and we don't want to add to their immeasurable of stress already. So,
we are proposing and pushing to have and so, we're
IAEA be the point of contact with Japan,
trying to interact with Denny Flory on the IAEA staff, and whoever else we in can that talk to, to get them to
proactively engage
activity,
and then
we'll
use them as the source of information, NEAL R.GROSS

the best that
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194
1 2 3 4 we can. We haven't been successful So, that's at that, yet,
and we'll continue working it. activity. The third is

--
the second
it's
a further development We have one set of
of the NRC questions and answers. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 to develop and questions, -
which I think are aimed at looking at the say about the events in Japan, which
what we would
we need to be as factual and not the various scenarios might be.
(inaudible)
into what
What I think we need to transition to over the next 12 hours is in Japan, it's waiting for, likely when this stabilizes that the shift will
entirely
come to the U.S. of a U.S. plant?
You know,
what would be the response plants all being
Why are the U.S.
shut down?
Those kinds of things. So, now I the Q's and A's have know, more for to do that I with think we need that one domestic of the
focus,
example,
20 21
22 23
Commissioners out, domestic
is
going on travel Monday, travel, but he'll be
so,
he'll be at a
out
conference, is, but we
or I'm not exactly want to be able to
sure what the activity arm them with a good
24
25
solid set of talking points on those activities.

The fourth activity has to do with
NEAL R. GROSS
195 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wind leaders if brief, monitoring, be doing interaction agency work with DHS. I think we have some inter-
going on,
about plume plots and so,
and possible
exposure activities, to --
we just want to continue
the interaction with our Federal colleagues. I know DOE is preparing access, EPA has -on the is to help do going to coast,
areal monitoring.
radiation
measurements
west
Hawaii,
and those areas. So, we just want to keep the communication so, we're aware the of what they're They're but we're and
links open with them, doing. carrying obviously, We're out not
driving own
actions.
their
responsibilities, in what they're
very interested finding out. So, let me
doing
what they're
just
briefly
ask
the
team
they have anything they want to add to this
before we open the questions. MALE PARTICIPANT: No, Again, I think you've
covered the reactor part of it.
the status is,
we're working on the questions right now. We started to do 'what-ifs' with the
reactor safety team. MR. MALE continues BORCHARDT: Okay. Yes, for the -the
PARTICIPANT:
to be in
the direction of out to sea.
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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196 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reminding will, I Washington talking too media Japan. front. It We're interfacing NARAC and DOE's headquarters nuclear incident team. All plume modeling shows sea and we've done various MR. got anything? MR. BRENNER: All the It's reasonably quiet on the is still over in BORCHARDT: (inaudible) Okay, the plume out to scenarios. Eliot, you
good.
attention
will turn back this way,
probably starting
tomorrow and the next day, talking points. We're Federal much kind of
and I hear you mention the
keeping right the
those now.
within We're is,
the not with
family, about what
situation
respect to our plants. I can tell you that Chairman, Former
Chairman Diaz and Chairman Kline are beginning to make the rounds on television, and they're carrying that
message. MR. me. BORCHARDT: The as NRC is Yes, thanks, our Eliot, role, if for you
minding
think,
part of the Federal
family looking
to the White House, and so, that's
to be the spokesman on this event, assertive or
why we're not being more
more proactive than some might think we would be.
NEAL R.GROSS
197
1 But so, that's -we're going to stay on
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12
that track for the foreseeable future. MALE update they've on the PARTICIPANT: EPA. We did I believe, the just EPA, an and
contact
reiterated the fact that they have stationary
monitoring. They don't plan, right but if now, to dispatch
any people to the west coast,
their stationary
monitoring indicates that they're elevated readings,
starting to pick up will detail at
then they probably
that point.
We're getting a lot of -we're getting
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
some people on the phone, requests from the RSLO's,
and we're getting a lot of in terms of what information whether or not we can already
could be provided to the States, provide started, some of the public
Q&A's that we've
could we provide it? Apparently, there out west, has and been even the some local
{interference}
states
Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, has also asked some questions. MR. anything? Okay, questions from anybody? MR. JOHNSON: Bill, BORCHARDT:
Rhode Island,
I guess,
Okay,
anybody
else
have
this is
Mike Johnson.
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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198 1 2 3 4 5 call, if Do we know anything? MR. BORCHARDT: They have a conference was NEI, what the U.S. nuclear industry is doing,
I think organized by NEI,
or I think it
earlier this afternoon. I think basically, it's just monitoring.
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
The one specific thing I'm aware of is requested to run some plants that Exelon simulator that runs,
that Exelon was because of some to
has,
are
similar
vintage
the affected plants in The don't have, is, but that's and all
Japan. of those simulator runs, I
results
I'm not sure
what the status
of that
that I know of. The only other thing we
MALE PARTICIPANT:
heard was that they were doing a couple of things with their earlier call. within the industry, upon request. They then had no requests, at this time, and It if was to have some coordination they were to provide resources
the other thing
they were
doing was just making So, both they for
sure that they were speaking with one voice. were trying to identify points of contact,
the media and the financial sectors. MR. MR. BORCHARDT: SATORIUS: Okay. Bill, it's Mark Satorius.
NEAL R. GROSS
199 1 2 3 4 5 I know that who they had were had contacted through General over in
Electric, Japan, here in and
field back
representatives to the and corporate because directly
had gotten the United GE
offices of and the were
States,
similarities,
contacted
Exelon
running those simulators. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Snodderly, Commissioner Tuesday conference at in that were and aware of because And I don't think they were conclusive, start
they didn't
have all
the right data to
the simulators on. MR. MALE that, BORCHARDT: Okay. It turned runs, out, and I was they
PARTICIPANT: those
simulator
basically confirmed the existing information. They being we've couldn't reported had some recreate to press. that the indications was
Something
missing
today,
demonstrated
some information from this. MR. other questions? MR. SNODDERLY: Bill, this is and to Mike it's speak BORCHARDT: Okay, all right. Any
Commissioner Apostolakis the
Apostolakis, that's scheduled safety
probabilistic
assessment
Wilmington,
North Carolina.
We're scheduled to leave tomorrow at five
NEAL R.GROSS
200 1 2 3 4 5
6
o'clock. points,
So,
yes,
if
we
could
get
some
talking
and I can go over those with the Commissioner,
all right. He's scheduled to do a welcome morning,

think --
on Monday and I
and
but it's
and he
only for five or ten minutes,

is scheduled to take
questions
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
answers after his speech on Tuesday, have him do the speech. We'll
but we may just obviously, be in
coordination with you and the Chairman, say or do. But appreciated. MR. BORCHARDT: And I anyhow, it would
on what we'll
be
greatly
know
that
the this
Chairman has talked to the other Commissioners, afternoon. we'll make They briefly talked about that,
but yes,
sure that all the Commission
offices have
what we prepare over the next day or so. MR. MR. hearing any SNODDERLY: BORCHARDT: Thank you. Okay. Let All right, me just I'm not ask the
other
questions.
representatives raised States. second. So, an
on the phone to hang on. topic, to about
I think you to the a
interesting So, I want
outreach on that
brainstorm
for
what we will do is NEAL R.GROSS
have,
I think the
(202) 234-4433
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201 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 morning. expected subjective. opinion. I was here last When Unit 1 I left night. I was I there would it this have is, (inaudible). to Unit your email. MALE PARTICIPANT: Hey, Bill, this is that send is out next call at and 11:30 then p.m. at this 7:30 evening, if you're morning,
interested, right? Yes,
a.m.
tomorrow
7:30 a.m. So, and of
tomorrow morning. course, we it's if there is anything of, we'll
significant, an email
that and if
become
aware
really
significant,
we'll do a blast-dial and make sure everybody gets the information promptly. So, 11:30 p.m., 7:30 a.m. and then check
As a point of clarification,
going back
1 at Daiichi,
do we think that core damage is
not ongoing now, MR.
based on radiation levels? BORCHARDT: let Well, it would be very
You know,
me just give you my personal
last
night,
to be in
far worse
shape that
to the best of our knowledge right now. So, either the event is going a whole lot or in water fact, into that the
slower than you would have predicted, they've vessel, been able to inject some
to provide some cooling.
NEAL R.GROSS
202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is was that that there. MALE just PARTICIPANT: a precaution, having trouble Okay, but we don't -I read evacuation no, another one of the question, MALE then? MR. MALE BORCHARDT: Yes, definitely. The last the we heard from PARTICIPANT: So, it's an open
PARTICIPANT: was
TV reports
that
radiation
levels but
were decreasing and their pressure was decreasing, again, that's a TV report,
and we don't have anything
to confirm that, MALE question.
at this time. PARTICIPANT: You're Right, not okay, and then
probably
ready, to talk
about this, other the sites,
but one thing I at the Daiichi has
read was that down at the site a few miles south, Do
Japanese
Government
ordered
evacuation.
you know anymore about that? FEMALE was, was PARTICIPANT: it 10 site site, that's kilometer is which -I think No, the no,
radius?
I think the first the other first site,
12 miles, is like
20 kilometers, 10 miles south the
and so, of the
yes,
(inaudible), yes. other site
evacuation is, So,
I guess 10 kilometers, it's half of what
the
is
like
because
what
they're
controlling
pressure
NEAL R.GROSS
203 and containment units there. MALE PARTICIPANT: That would be

--
in
the RCS of the --
of three of the
we
don't have any information on that. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. But the limited
information we have is
focused on Daiichi Unit 1. Okay, good, thanks.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT:
But we haven't given up
trying to get information on the others. MALE very much. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, thanks, everybody, PARTICIPANT: Sure, sure, thank you
and have a good afternoon. (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
NEAL R.GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
www.nealrgross.com
204 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, this is Bill, again.
Who do we have on from SESMI? MALE PARTICIPANT: I thought there was
10
somebody that called in. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 appropriate that this is hanging in back. CHARLIE: LARRY: MR. there. So, I guess or the question to the is, what's the Okay. This is Larry. Okay, I'm here. yes, thanks for Charlie. MR. BORCHARDT: Hi, Charlie. We got you MR. maybe the host is BORCHARDT: gone. Who is one for FSME? This is We must have lot them, or
CHARLIE:
BORCHARDT:
action --
outreach it
States, like it call,
given would try to
I mean,
seems
to me
be appropriate,
just to have a conference
NEALR. GROSS
205 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 our call. I question is, probably contacted, in and suggest, you hear me? MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, Yes, go ahead. is what I would let set up something with whatever state they're
interested in. But I mean, this is your guys call. So,
me stop talking and see if CHARLIE: Hey,
you have any ideas. this is Charlie. Can
Bill,
CHARLIE:
here
so that we keep control of it. We've got regional state liaison officers
every region. the state
They know the contacts in liaison officers and the
each state Governor's
office. I would suggest that that's should use to make sure the vehicle we that they're
or at least set up a call. MR. MALE BORCHARDT: Okay. So, I think the bigger
PARTICIPANT:
what information do we give them? CHARLIE:. mean, if Well, I mean, trying that's to going to be restrict the that
we're
information,
or at least control
the information
we're getting outside, or a Governor,
anything that you give a state to control
you're not going to be able even if
what they do with it,
you ask them to keep it
NEAL R. GROSS
206 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 don't whether it that there States. MR. BORCHARDT: Right. going to questions plants in close. You from, know, I'm they're sure, So, going to be getting the
state
people,
about
their states.
they're going to probably
want something. MR. ask if I -COLLINS: yes, I Bill, agree this with is Elmo. I was and it
Charlie,
would -points,
we would have a couple of pages of talking think -and then just let-work through
the state liaison officers, CHARLIE: them the message Right,
that ought to work. and I think if you give that we
that you've been giving out,
don't want to speculate on what's going on, the limited information, and you can't
because of necessarily
believe
everything that you're saying,
reported on TV
by the so-called experts, But is we don't
to be cautious. see, as a result in of this,
any threat
at the plants
the United
CHARLIE:
And avoid answering questions on I mean, I don't think
could happen here. yet.
we're ready to do that, MR.
BORCHARDT:
Right,
the tail
of this,
think we have
a document
right now,
that we're
NEAL R. GROSS
207 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 this, for going to need, go too far, OPA because some of the things go through and say too much. points, are Others, really like some of I
the
talking
high
level.
don't think scratch the itch. So, I think we're stuck with having to do set of talking points that through the
to come up with a unique the States. office, We'll
clear
Chairman's
and try to get them out to those, or the

--
via state liaison officers, 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 information because CHARLIE: MALE Okay.
PARTICIPANT:
So,
the
information
from the protective measures? MR. BORCHARDT: I'm sorry, say that again. the
MALE PARTICIPANT: from the
Would that include measures
protective
teams,
they were
talking about monitoring just need to know is plume is blowing
and maybe
one thing the States monitoring the ocean. FEMALE because
that we are out towards
the
PARTICIPANT:
think some of that to help
information would be important and would help, scratch the itch, on the west, especially, you know,
the states out who have
like California and Washington,
been asking about this. MR. BORCHARDT: Yes, right, I mean, I'll
NEAL R.GROSS
208 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going certainly leave it the itch to you guys, and then, to figure out, you know, we'll office, let's float and it make that, once what will scratch put some talking by OPA they're the the
points and
together,
then
through sure
the
Chairman's with was
comfortable point States, that
us going out with just made, it's that
because we tell
forget it. FEMALE try the
I mean,
out. Well, we could we have you know,
PARTICIPANT: caveat, that is,
you know,
shared before with the States, official type of things, that. But you're right,
information,
which we can't ask them to do
we
don't
necessarily
have that control going forward. MALE PARTICIPANT: to do the monitoring, Well, rather given that EPA is than NRC, I think
we need to coordinate with them, going to say that, in the public
find out what they're domain and then just
reference even be
when we talk to the States, to point them to an EPA
and maybe point of
prepared
contact. FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: to the States, Yes. So, that we're not --
I think once we send it will be shared
we should assume that it
NEAL R.GROSS
209 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 being put out, Japanese Government, with, should you give know, them at least the legislature. rather than So, we
talking
points,
things
that they would hold. MR. new BORCHARDT: network that now the All has reactor the first right, but the the under
headlines, is safe,
saying
their breaking news. that call,
That is
time I've seen
on this network. MALE PARTICIPANT: But they also have a
picture of a BWR. MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay, so, then we're
going to develop the talking points, OPA and then we'll
run them through to make
run them by the Chairman,
sure that they're fine. MR. BORCHARDT: Right. And OPA would run
FEMALE
PARTICIPANT:
them through the Chairman for more specifics. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BORCHARDT: Yes. Well, we'll figure that and as
but we just got to make sure we get the okay, to give a courtesy copy to like EPA,
we may have well.
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. out, BORCHARDT: all right,
Right. Just and so they so, I know what's I'm
mean,
NEAL R.GROSS
210 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 time, So, I so, mean, cognizant more of the vacuum we have right now, but it's
important
that we do this carefully,
than do it
real fast. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BORCHARDT: will if slow Agreed.
We're going into the night down on the news cycle.
things I first
think
we were
ready to have a good I think that
engagement
thing tomorrow morning,
would be pretty good. 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 themselves. want to at that, would also, thing, that put if MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. MALE be out you is a to put BORCHARDT: Okay, all yes. right? of which, points, the same
Okay,
PARTICIPANT: continuance lead them staff, out to on
Speaking the
talking it's they're
because NRC,
public.
Everybody that.
going to see them,
but we may want to do
MR. too.
BORCHARDT: All right,
Okay, Charlie
we can or
take a on
look the
anybody
phone have anything? CHARLIE: re-emphasize, No, again, Bill, we I mean, them, I just some
whatever
give
Governor is
going to publicize. MR. BORCHARDT: Yes, they can't help
NEAL R.GROSS
211 .1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everybody. comfortable mean, is CHARLIE: with that's the Right, fact that so, it we will so, have get to out, be I
I guess
my only point,
the Chairman too. thanks,
going to have be comfortable with that, MR. BORCHARDT: Got it, all
right,
Have a good evening. CHARLIE: All right, thank you, Bill.
MALE PARTICIPANT: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
Thank you.
NEAL R.GROSS
212 1 2 3 4 5
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 has been boric acid hours, technical (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MALE PARTICIPANT: earlier. Okay, I'll sorry just about start the over
difficulty
and try to be brief. We have gives a status of all Unit 1, that's a press release from TEPCO, that
six units on the site. been our focus for the There the last was 24 the roof
or longer, in the
has been reactor
shut down. building,
explosion structure.
metal
But
they're the
now
injecting core. the
sea
water So, is
and
into positive and
reactor that
that's being Of any
obviously, terminated
news,
heat-up the issue
they're
addressing
inadvertent criticality. Unit shut say 2, they had The was RIK-SEA press running. release That doesn't
down. if it
explosively
intentionally
shut down or
NEAL R.GROSS
213 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in preparations was terminated by some other cause. But it looks like they're making they
for venting the containment,
after
get permission from the regulator. So, there is certainly no sense of urgency So, I think
the description that they talk about. is the
this
same kind of planned activity that they and than
had on Unit 1, as far as venting the containment, reactor normal. Unit 3 is shut down, and they continue water level is stable, although lower
to
inject water using HIPSI, to implement measures to
and they're also preparing reduce after pressure they in get the the
reactor
containment
vessel,
Government's permission. So, I think what you can assume is that
they've lost containment cooling. increase in pressure and in
There has been some order to maintain
integrity of the containment, intentional treatments. They did not venting, probably
they're through
going to do an stand-by gas
believe
that
there
is
any
reactor coolant leakage inside the containment vessel on Unit 3. Units 4, 5 and 6, just from summary, were
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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214 1 2 3 4 5 already shut down for a variety of reasons. no leakage inside the containment vessel There is and no
concerns,
regarding temperature in So, it looks as if,
the core. anyway, things have
stabilized and are --
have actually --
they've
turned
the tide on Unit 1, and the situation is 7 8 9 10 16 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So, thanks for your
improving. and your
attention
continued work this evening. (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
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223 1 2 3 4 5
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 essence, we really coming bridge, up. too. (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS The OFFICER: is Becky coming Schmidt up on is the
Commissioner
Excuse me, now.
the Chairman is
coming up on
the bridge,
Hello? Hi, Chairman.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. have a BORCHARDT: lot that's
How are you? How are you? So, we don't We just
changed,
actually.
sent you an update of the Ops Center status. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. or a BORCHARDT: run-down fairly Okay. And in there is the that line
of a TEPCO press which the
release bottom
received
recently,
would be indicative of things have at least stabilized and I think have turned the corner and are improving a
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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224 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I'll just what is Let me pull great. MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: email, Very briefly. Give me so, I just a moment. follow along I'll little bit. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. So, if you don't mind,
just go through the six units. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, that would be
CHAIRMAN up that
can
there. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Are you using a
computer or your BlackBerry? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: Computer. Okay. Actually, to I read it on
CHAIRMAN my BlackBerry, computer, now, MR. but it's
I'm actually
look at. it
on my
just taking me a minute. Okay, so, I'll be going to
BORCHARDT:
page three of the report. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. tell BORCHARDT: you, we're Okay. While doing that a is coming of up,
couple
other
things that we have working. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, There's good. been a number of
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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225 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 trying to regional contacts from states, especially, I guess, out on the
west coast,
asking for some information. So, the liaison team is putting together
some talking points. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, That good. we're going to have
ready to go tomorrow morning, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT:
bright and early. Okay, That great. we can give to the
state liaison
officers,
and then they can do
the outreach. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, We right, good. don't think that
anything we already have is with the assumption,
because we're going
anything we give the States will
become immediately public knowledge. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: there. Good. And then we're thing, still but we Yes. So, we're being careful
about what we put in
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. work BORCHARDT: the IAEA
communication
don't seem to be getting anywhere on that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Do we have any
news on our two travelers status?
NEAL R. GROSS
226 1 2 3 4 5 hours ago. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. delayed. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Unit 1, it units in CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: That's okay. Yes. Okay, so, I have the not the -CNN is -CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. has a BORCHARDT: Okay. The unfortunate "NRC thing is, is sending BORCHARDT: Okay. His plane was a little bit ago, MR. be arriving in BORCHARDT: A little bit, Tony should
another two to three hours. Okay. We heard from him several left, maybe an hour
and Jim Trapp already
6
7 8
(inaudible) that says,
two nuclear experts to help.!' CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. well, BORCHARDT: it's Okay. Which, you know, is maybe but
not the way we portrayed it,
CHAIRMAN front of me. MR. says,
BORCHARDT:
Okay,
so,
right
before
"Winds are directed out to sea." Yes. Okay, so, that is still
NEAL R.GROSS
227 1 2 3 4 5 the situation meteorologically. Okay, so, Unit 1, which is what we've been
focusing on so much before, message that borated We don't
we're hearing a consistent being injected into
sea water is know how,
the vessel. it's
and we don't know if system is being
stand-by liquid control,
or what
7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24
used. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. stabilized core and BORCHARDT: there at is all, no Okay. But that water of level has
indication any
degrading that we're
conditions,
from
source
getting on that. CHAIRMAN is covered, JACZKO: Do we know if the core
at this point, MR. BORCHARDT:
or not? Well, no, least somewhere, we
were developing
the view that at
at one point,
the core was maybe a third uncovered. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. were covered, BORCHARDT: Yes. And the water level beams water level is
so,
but we don't know if
above top of active fuel or what the exact level is. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR.
--
Okay. Radiation
indication
BORCHARDT:
getting any
levels
that
are
they're
not
we're
not
25
getting any worse.
NEAL R.GROSS
228 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. consensus that BORCHARDT: the
Okay. We seem to be developing and the top of the
explosion in fact,
reactor building was,
a hydrogen explosion. Okay.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. in the stand-by BORCHARDT: gas
Probably caused by a leak system when they were
treatment
venting containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. there know, was a BORCHARDT: press Okay, So, all that's right. Unit that safe 1, and you 1,
TEPCO
conference reactor was
said, on Unit
declared said,
that the we're
and like I
not seeing
anything that would
be counter to that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. SEA to inject BORCHARDT: water. The Okay. Unit 2 had been using RIKstatus says now that the
RIK-SEA was shut down. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. down on its own, BORCHARDT: or if Okay. We don't know if shut it it's down, shut but
the operator
water level is
But
steady,
again,
although lower than normal.

no radiation -no indications
24 25
of but
any
radiation you'll
levels see for
or
any 2
abnormal and 3
occurrence, is that the
what
Units
NEAL R.GROSS
229 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 licensee is working with -to get, I guess, NISA's
permission to vent the containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. And that would be normal, there
because they've lost cooling to the containment, would be some build-up and it measure. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay.
would be a precautionary
9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 temperature
That's for both units. Now, on that, would
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
there be a point under normal -under mean, a is normal there cool-down would
I mean, you be
at what point able to -I
a time at which you'd be able to shut
off RIK-SEA,
or would that stay on? MR. -BORCHARDT: Yes, well, when the
when you're no longer producing steam -
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. anymore, BORCHARDT:
Yes.
--
19
20 21 22 23 24 25 big, be I well
RIK-SEA
won't
work
because it's
a stream driven turbine. Got it. And so, that would be the It's you going to enough
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. guess, above BORCHARDT:
the big driver in 200 degrees,
this.
before
have
horse to turn the turbine.
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
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230
1
2 3 4
5
Yes. But then normally, you or
would transition to low pressure coolant injection, something,

those
to do cool-down,
-electrical
but they don't have any of

power to run those
electrical
6
7
pumps.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: So, is it --
8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 heat-up. inside
MR.
BORCHARDT:
This
would
just
run
--
they would use RIK-SEA until,
you know,
they've gotten
the pressure down to as low as they can get it. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: know whether that's or whether it's Yes, okay. So, we don't
the reason RIK-SEA is because there's been a
not working, problem with
pumps or a leak somewhere, MR. BORCHARDT:
or something? Yes, that's all right. right.
Okay, Unit 3,
they're continuing
to use high pressure core injections. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Same Okay. And thing, there is no leak
containment.
they're
getting
NISA's permission to vent the containment. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Just because of the normal
NEAL R.GROSS
231 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9
Okay. Units 4, 5 and 6 were
already shut down. CHAIRMAN the other units? MR. that other
No problems, JACZKO:
nothing expected. else? Any of
Anything
BORCHARDT: of
Well, units,
you 10
know, miles,
there or
is 10
complex
kilometers
--
south of these six,

story, which is
and we're just getting

the first we've heard
CNN covered a
10 11 12 13
14
of it, in
that there may be a loss of coolant in
that --
a unit down there. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT:

--
Okay. They're saying in a second
unit,
but it's
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 They seem
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. confirm that. BORCHARDT: It's
Okay. But we have nothing to
just general I think.
sense,
CNN is
really
lagging on the story,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: really
Okay. Compared to other sources.
to be
late
and
really
going
after
dramatic impact. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
232
1 2 3 4 CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 again, well, with for she'll say, "I Jean second. MR. BRENNER: Okay, I was on the phone me all phone with they're talking, BORCHARDT: and they're Yes. So, this is more ones of what have
the only
that
reported the second unit problem. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. Jean BRENNER: Mazzura Okay, is Eliot there? and I was on the home. She was
I am here, on my way
begging me for confirmation of this. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Yes. Sorry. I'm here. Can you hear Eliot?
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. right? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: BRENNER: Yes,
Yes,
we
lost you for
Mazzura,
driving home. on this
She was begging me melt call down, and and
confirmation be
reported when I
very disappointed
her back
can't confirm it." CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, and you know, but
not sure what they mean by melt down,
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233 1 from that what there we've

--
been at
saying this
internally, there
we is
believe a high
2
3 4 5
point,
likelihood that there was fuel damage. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Yes. Okay. And my apologies, I was
referring to --
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there was that's CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE right, PARTICIPANT: Okay. There is no way that
the right answer. Yes. But he but Wolfe admitted that
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE some PARTICIPANT: fuel damage,
Blitzer wanted
to go to a core meltdown. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. And he said no, there
NEAL R. GROSS
234 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 anything, haven't, have doing -confirm. CHAIRMAN I'm sorry, JACZKO: Bill, Okay, okay, how are we to apologize has not been a core meltdown. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, Eliot, did you
want to say something else? MR. for BRENNER: referencing I did, and in I wanted to the
meltdown
relation,
reference to loss of coolant at another reactor. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Okay. Which I won't be able to
other things
you wanted
go through? MR. BORCHARDT: No, that's really it. We We
like I said, with a
made any progress with IAEA. couple of other
talked
Government
agencies,
just to place status reports. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Good. But nothing, we haven't
really learned anything through that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. So, let me see, we have
protective measures? FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MR. MALE BORCHARDT: Okay. Nothing new. Anything? We talked to GE again
PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
235
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25
today,
just to confirm -CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'm sorry, can you speak
up a little
bit? MR. MALE BORCHARDT: Sure. Yes, again. Chairman. They have, of We you
PARTICIPANT: Electric
talked know, center
to
General
they've down in
established Wilmington,
the and
wrong, kind we just
command
touched base
with them,
to make sure they had no new information. The only new information they provided us
was kind of, operations,
you know,
what are the limits on RIK-SEA who has that now.
to our technical staff, CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: that they Okay.
You
know,
so,
they you
continue know,
to
confirm always
haven't to say,
talked, "We
they're
careful at all."
haven't
talked to the customer,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE remains true. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE other teams, of having PARTICIPANT: PARTICIPANT:
Okay. And that is still
Okay. We are, as are the
working
on the Q&A's, done, but
and with
the goal by 11
the Q&A's
whatever
level,
o'clock tonight,
so that they can receive higher level
NEAL R.GROSS
236
1
2 3 4
review by tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE time for not PARTICIPANT: distribution Okay. Tomorrow to the morning, Chairman in and when
only
others, 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eight worry

take --
but in
time for Commissioner Apostolakis,
he goes to North Carolina. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, well, then let's
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN Commissioner we're doing. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: JACZKO: on a
I mean, Yes,
Monday. let's for take what
Apostolakis
(inaudible)
Yes, Focus
sir. on that, and I'm
going to have to ask you to accelerate that time line, a lot. I'd that we soon. and in like a version by eight, may So, need I'd to get because I do out
something
publically, eight
like to have that ready by probably have so, to run, at
o'clock,
we're
least share it
the inter-agency,
we can try and
have a consistent coordinated message. So, if you can give again, me what you have by
o'clock and then
continue
to work on it can you -is
and do an updated version by 11 o'clock,
NEAL R. GROSS
237 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 the NREP. items. we have In to, we can tonight, that doable? MALE PARTICIPANT: By eight o'clock
you're saying? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. always BORCHARDT: provide it Yes. I don't know what -Well, in I mean, obviously, we
whatever
condition
have. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. But let us look to see if
we can stand behind the version that we have. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. you know, BORCHARDT: I'll Okay. Because I wouldn't want us
so,
see what we can do. Okay, good. Just a couple of
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE terms some PARTICIPANT:
of our communication discussions
with the with
IAEA, Penny
had
internally
Jones and also,
we contacted Mark Shafer. that we're IAEA has, getting it's is that all put into
The brief information So, that
been
we should have the latest
information that
they have. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
25
NEAL R.GROSS
238 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 send them, getting one of the some reports let's as such, We can continue to try and contact them,
(inaudible). CHAIRMAN JACZKO: And we're getting the
NREP reports? MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes. Okay, yes, then for now,
leave that as sufficient. MALE in PARTICIPANT: very recently Okay, we have in gotten --
from.HHS,
terms
asking us to confirm this report of second exposure at one of the reactors. They, news apparently, stations have seen something a on
about
there
being
second
explosion, that, that.
which was the first
time we had heard about we could confirm
and they called Us to ask us if
We're
trying
to
find
out
where
they're
their information
from,
but we haven't gotten
anymore insights on that. CHAIRMAN then, JACZKO: Okay, and can we just
the 1830 update that we did?
NEAL R.GROSS
239 1 2 the -MALE PARTICIPANT: Well, we sent them to
the press release that the Japanese put out. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, around well, this let's one -I'd
3
4 5 like to
continue
to
work
central
document that we have. So, you know, we'll as we give have, them and as so, update if you
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
and
accurate
information
can forward that to them, know, as of, you know,
and tell
them that's
what we
as of 1830,
and we'll update it
when we get more accurate and confirmed information. MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. report, research BORCHARDT: Okay. And I just got handed a
by World Nuclear News,
that might be
the source of this second unit. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. Fukushima Daini. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. units that's BORCHARDT: Okay. Which was the set of four the others that we've BORCHARDT: Okay. It talks about the
10 miles
south of
been talking about. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. core isolation BORCHARDT: cooling it It system Okay. says, had "Unit been 1 reactor operating local
normally,"
and however,
was lost at 5:32 a.m.
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240 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Is my question, preparing So, notify the time, which was not that long ago, when its
suppression chamber reached 100 degrees Centigrade. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. And this led TEPCO to
Government
of another
technical
emergency
situation. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: the Okay. All right, and so, so, they that's it's are it. a the
to vent
containment
I don't know that it's situation,
nearly as --
I mean,
serious first
but maybe
not as dire
as what
report sounded like. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Does it But have -have offsite
they
power available at these units. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, they do? That was
those units do have offsite power? MR. BORCHARDT: Yes, well, according to
the same report. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Yes. Okay. this is Eliot.
I apologize,
that a Government MR.
report or a news agency report? World Nuclear News, it's a
BORCHARDT:
NEAL R. GROSS
241 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for to be able well, let's operation. MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: I believe so. Okay, thanks. Okay, -they put out these daily updates. (inaudible), I think. Okay. It's a commercial news They're kind of
like
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT:
CHAIRMAN continue,
as frequently as is
appropriate, these last
and when reports, one. and I
we do have new information, and I think like it's to the format very update usable that
to update in this
that was and very on a
accessible, basis,
continue
periodic
again, and
with information that we are very confident in, to provide that throughout the Federal
continue
Government. My thinking being to interpret here that we are going sources of
the
various
information better than any other organization. So, but use your same high standards for
credibility and the accuracy. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. And then if so, we can shoot I can start
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: a version
then by eight o'clock,
taking a look at that and Eliot, then, again, are you -where
do you have a sense, are you, in terms of
NEAL R.GROSS
242 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (inaudible) nudge. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Okay. I also had one other make any still ready. CHAIRMAN think at this point, even turn, you know, JACZKO: you know, Okay, it's and you know, I in your comfort with our public communications? MR. BRENNER: I'm fine right now. Okay. Most will of the and attention we should is be
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. Japan, BRENNER: but it
turn,
possible it
could
this evening or things like that. we need to have
That's why I think we need to have -something on paper to get ready to go. We can keep modifying it over the rest of the evening,
and working on it shoot to have
but let's
something on paper by eight o'clock. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, we'll do our best. Eliot, in did terms you of
CHAIRMAN progress
JACZKO:
Okay,
with
the White
House,
Sunday evening? MR. BRENNER: I did not. Okay. I'll give them another
And
request,
which I dodged.
NEAL R.GROSS
243. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 everybody. -Bill, for now, it, CHAIRMAN that's it JACZKO: Okay, yes, and I think
probably a good idea, probably will only start to us more, and at that's
and --
to dodge
because to
feeding them, this point, if
wanting they're
talk
forced to focus on Japan,
probably the
right place to be focusing right now. MR. BRENNER: All right. Okay, well, good, at
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Can we do an update then with me again, a good time?
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
what would you recommend is MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO:
Maybe 10 o'clock. Okay, sounds good, in the and
CHAIRMAN of course, if
something
changes
meantime,
please,
give me a call and I'll MR. BORCHARDT:
be watching the news.
Okay. Okay, thanks everybody,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: appreciate it. MR. BORCHARDT:
All right.
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7 8 9 10 16 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Sure, Yes. So, Bill Ruland would be bye. Okay, Bill?
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the right person? MR. BORCHARDT: and ask,
Yes,
think,
Chairman,
before you come in
we had somebody that could
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253 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 provide some background to the press, BWR that's operations, kind of how a boiler that talks about to an event, record
responds maybe off
general,
the
information. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. you're probably BORCHARDT: in Okay. So, we'd suggest those that
the best position,
that are
here tonight to do that. CHAIRMAN try and get -MR. Eliot, JACZKO: So, can you -let me
9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in exchange?
did you get on the call? Yes, I'm on the call. Okay, did you hear that
BRENNER:
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
MR.
BRENNER:
I did. Are but I you -sorry, I
CHAIRMAN jumped a little point where it's
JACZKO:
ahead of you, probably good
think we're at a getting some
to start
kind of factual information like that. MR. BRENNER: Yes, now, I apologize, I got
probably a second after it
started. is
The individual calling us was from DOE, that correct? CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
MR.
BRENNER:
Okay,
good,
good.
NEAL R.GROSS
254 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 message to you out, Eliot, let CHAIRMAN then, JACZKO: with So, your if White you can reach press and we
House
,
contacts,
them know name, this to do, point, out. they can work I
give them Bill Ruland's the record briefings you all MR. at
would say off or background,
whichever,
will work it Yes,
BRENNER:
it
out, and will
and I will run downstairs and send them a message, you know, it will be up to them, at what point it
probably be something over at the White House. CHAIRMAN prepared to do that? MR. BORCHARDT: Yes, sir. Okay, thank you. JACZKO: Okay, Bill, you're
CHAIRMAN Anything else, MR. before,
JACZKO:
everybody? BORCHARDT: though, is No, what I that was mentioning we got this a
just
information NISA rep in
from Michael D.C.
Chenworthl (phonetic) who is
Okay. And he was giving us a
with no detail
and no sense that --
of time,
because
he's not technical guy,
indicating that Unit 1
condition was degrading again. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
NEAL R.GROSS
255 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13
MR. happened, but he
BORCHARDT: didn't know
That what,
something and he
had
couldn't
tell us what was being used to inject water into the reactor vessel. So, would have yes, I don't, a good, you would hope that it reliable detail, source it's of hard
been
information, to put it
but there is
so little
in context. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, okay.
And that's it. Okay, well, thanks we can

but if
CHAIRMAN everybody,
keep -I
JACZKO: let's
and again,
know you all
keep focused and if
are dealing with a lot,
14 15 16 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25
we
can
keep
focused,
to
try
and
get
some
of
the
updated Q&A's down on paper, the thinking for me is,
fairly soon,
just to --
I'd like to have a chance to gets too late, so, I can we can to
look at them, not before it - if do there is
things we need to add or change, the night is over and
that before
I'm going
operate right now,
Bill,
on the assumption that either after, of I'm going to probably public discussions and
by tomorrow or the day have to be doing a lot
communications. So, that as possible. NEAL R. GROSS

want
to try
and be
as
rested
for
256 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (CONFERENCE from the everybody. MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: feel All right, And if free to bye. we do get calls just, you know, pretty soon. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: Good, Okay. Keep up the good work, I appreciate it. Affairs is MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. And you know, facility and trying is probably
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
to monitor an event at a Japanese
not going to be the most effective use of my time. So, if we can get those Q&A's, and then I can start
looking at them this evening, good night sleep tonight, MR.
try and get a
and be ready to go tomorrow. Yes, I think Public
BORCHARDT:
scrubbing the first CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT:
chop on them. Right. So, you should get them
CHAIRMAN
CHAIRMAN White
House,
patch me in,
get me on the line. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Okay, thanks everybody. bye.
All right,
CALL CONCLUDED)
NEAL R.GROSS
257 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is in gotten them, have (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS coming on the bridge. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Hi, I it everybody. just wanted on 'mute' I don't to just but OFFICER: Chairman Jaczko is
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: anything to talk about. and I'll put
keep a I'll
line on,
here,
be listening in. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, I just looked at the
Q&A's that I think have been sent to you. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: yet. I Yes. And I don't know if told them that we you've could
quite
review them in
parallel. Great. But number seven, So, I think,
need of some serious work.
I wouldn't spend
NEAL R.GROSS
258 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Is it's a a lot of time on that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. put us on 'mute', BORCHARDT: also. JACZKO: and sure I Okay, great, it, of and yes, a Okay, All good. I'm going to
right,
CHAIRMAN great let's start make
appreciate we have all
and this
just
caveat, 'OUO'
marked
and you know, MR.
properly kept secure. Okay, we'll do.
BORCHARDT:
Hello? This is Bill Borchardt.
there somebody on the line? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: I think it's Okay. I think they were just just me.
CHAIRMAN checking the line. MR.
BORCHARDT: JACZKO:
Sorry. No problem. for now. a ring for now, if Hey, Bill,
CHAIRMAN
I'm going to drop off this line, to be quiet again. Give I'll me just,
Things seem something plan to get
changes and otherwise, an update at 10 o'clock. MR.
BORCHARDT:
Okay. Okay, Bye. thanks.
NEAL R.GROSS
259 1 2 3 4 5 (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conference line? (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. BORCHARDT: Is the Chairman on the
Can we give him a call? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Hello. Hi, Chairman. Bill, here.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. call BORCHARDT: going on
How are you? Good. We just had a
with
State
right
now,
and
probably two dozen other parties. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay.
NEAL R. GROSS
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NEAL R.GROSS
261
2 3
4
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I mean,

do --
Yes,
the only things
-to
that came up,
one,
was there was an effort
run some scenarios.
5 6 7
8
MR.
BORCHARDT:
All right. Which we did do. Yes.

There was -I mean, the
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
only really take-away then then putting the together was,
I remember with that was -people that I to can support a team, was
and and just
third
remember,
working to reach out to counterparts. So, to our I think I indicated we would reach out again, to try and make contact,
counterparts
which has been unsuccessful. MR. a bell. you. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE information, PARTICIPANT: No problem. We've got some new Okay, BORCHARDT: that's Okay, yes, that's Sorry, ringing to bother
helpful,
good.
Chairman. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes.
NEAL R.GROSS
262 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 case, in television, in television. MALE who PARTICIPANT: said that there meters, -was the all and -Japanese the level MALE PARTICIPANT: And Japanese
Unit 3 was at -3
and that's
they said, and
and we then got on the horn with General Electric,
they confirmed that the reference level was the top of the active fuel. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE other since PARTICIPANT: words, the plant the was Okay. So, reference designed if that's level and the hadn't by
changed,
built
General Electric -CHAIRMAN JACZKO: three meters uncovered? MALE PARTICIPANT: meters of the fuel, uncovered. That puts ahead of 12 That means that there is
NEAL R.GROSS
263 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have done, try to -that? MALE PARTICIPANT: One of the things we that and I hope CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: you tell me a week Okay. So, I hope I'm wrong, now, I got you
from
upset now.
unnecessarily,
but we're
looking
at that
right
CHAIRMAN information is
JACZKO: accurate,
Okay, what do
well, we
assuming to be
need
doing? MALE PARTICIPANT: Can we think about
Chairman, for Unit
one of the things we have done is 1, in particular, and they were
saying they were having a tough time getting flow into the reactor, that -there and might by sea that, water be I a precipitation you know, and and
problem, they boron, have
meaning been
mean,
putting
and boric
acid
ultimately boric acid into these reactors, it boils off. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Yes. So, you
of course,
essentially
have a concentrator, for our there reviews,
and one of the things that we do is, we make you sure that know, that
for licensees that can
are
licensees
combat,
boric acid precipitation does not occur.
NEAL R. GROSS
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264
1
2 3 4 5
6 get
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE us, at this PARTICIPANT: that
Yes. And it's particularly not clear to if they're
stage,
sticking sea water into the plant -CHAIRMAN

whatever
JACZKO:
--
Right,
you
would
know,
you
also
minerals
mineral
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
calcification or whatever,
from the -That is Yes. Now, stage. this We is just a no correct.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE staff 'what-if' PARTICIPANT: at this
have
confirmation about that, folks and said, from you know, Japan,
but we have talked to the OIT "The next time you talk to just ask them that
somebody question, it?"
could
you
about precipitation,
and if
they considered
Our contact is at the very least,
not a technical person,
but
he might ask that of the technical this is a
people and we might get some sort of idea if concern or isn't. But meanwhile, we're trying to
do
some
calculations to kind of scope this out.

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, can I get -can
24 25
you put the 'who's'
back on? This is the WHO.
OPERATIONS OFFICER:
NEAL R.GROSS
265 1 2 can get in CHAIRMAN contact JACZKO: with Hi, can you Center, see if you if
DOE's Op
and see
you can get Dan Poneman for me? 4 OPERATIONS work on that right now. E 7 CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Poneman, P-O-N-E-M-A-N. Poneman. see if have any OFFICER: Dan Porterman, we'll
OPERATIONS OFFICER: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: we can DOE on the line, and
I understand, I'll they
13 8
Thank you. see if
i0 iC 12 13 '4 15 211 '7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
comparable
information. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay. Now, on. CNN lust had I kind if
of some
schematics
of a- reacto r
don't know
you saw that. MR. BORCHARDT: No, we're watching NHK,
this Japanese station. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE our -it PARTICIPANT: Okay. Right, we saw it on
looks like it's
a weatherman,
explaining how
a nuclear plant works. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: on the line, too. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, we'll ask them to Yes. Yes, See if I'm sorry. we can get Eliot
25
NEAL R.GROSS
266
1
2 3 4 5
work on that.
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 depends It's on if you MR. BORCHARDT: it Right, even so, I mean, I think was
wanted to make
simpler,
the core
nearly completely uncovered. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Uncovered, And that's yes.
Unit 3. I mean, at which how in long the
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: just a back of the core is the envelope?
Do we have an -At the point I mean,
completely got
uncovered, loss of
until fuel,
you've
complete
integrity
or structural integrity? MALE how PARTICIPANT: long the plants has Commissioner, been shut it down.
been shut down for several days,
but --
or about
NEAL R.GROSS
267 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 to do, to pulse two days. Even so, it can't or it's be uncovered for more
than half an hour or so, damaged.
going to be severely
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: approximately multiple hours? MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BRENNER: hours, hour
Okay, time
so,
we're talking rather than
frame,
Yes,
sir.
Am I now on the ET bridge? Yes.
Thanks. Eliot? it is. can House, you continue --
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Yes,
CHAIRMAN press folks
JACZKO:
Okay,
at the White
that we
I'm starting to get concerned that we need to get some credible technical people talking. MR. BRENNER: One of the things I'm going
right now {interference}. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I'm sorry, did someone
want to say something?
22
2324___
25
NEAL R. GROSS
268 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right now the line? OPERATIONS OFFICER: This is the WHO. He speak to CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. you, DOANE: either So, Okay. the Ambassador wants to
you or the executive
committee,
whoever can get on the phone call. CHAIRMAN to JACZKO: Okay, on. Are we're working on
get Dan Poneman
the WHO's
NEAL R. GROSS
269 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 physics, scenario, 'what-if' the WHO, but now. MS. DOANE: Okay, okay, thanks. bit of I is on another line, and I'm just waiting for him to
call in. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, can we get -is
the Ambassador ready to come on right now? MS. room to find out. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: I Okay. Would you DOANE: No, I have to go to another
can get him on.
like to speak to him now? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Can you work that with synch, right
so we get everybody coordinated and in
think the Ambassador would be a priority,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: thinking here? MR. BORCHARDT:
Can I do a little
Sir. In most of the
CHAIRMAN conversations I've indicated
JACZKO:
I've had with our Federal that we're not
counterparts,
looking at a Chernobyl
type scenario. Now, we're but if again, not obviously, at a from the reactor type
looking
Chernobyl
we were to have multiple units with would we -I mean, would we be
significant core melt,
NEAL R.GROSS
270 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13
looking
at
the potential a source
for
release
of
material, to that,
essentially, or not?
term that's
comparable
Again,
just a best guess. I think my best guess number one, we
MALE PARTICIPANT: is still that it still in wouldn't,
because
have
tact containment. Yes. They it would might be, have to
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE vent the PARTICIPANT: but
containment,
you
know,
hopefully,
a controlled release. We have the wind still going out to I mean, sea,
and so,
for those two major reasons,

--
Chernobyl
was an explosion and fire
14
15
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes.
--
unfiltered,
right
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
unfiltered release. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: I believe. Okay, and again, just to Okay. So, there is still a
significant difference,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: kind of get everybody's a situation where we start potential in
best judgment,
do we get into
to have to think about the of material, say,
for at least measurements
Hawaii or Alaska, MALE
depending on wind conditions? Wow, I mean, that is
PARTICIPANT:
NEAL R.GROSS
271 1 2 3 4
5 --
such
long
distance, I mean,
and
there
would
be
so
much
dispersion.
we're talking thousands of miles. Yes, So, yes. you know,

--
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT:
I would
you might have something detectable
6 7
8 9 that it
MALE PARTICIPANT: there.

MALE PARTICIPANT:
There might be a trace
--
but
I can't
imagine
would be --
have any impact.
10 11 12 13 14 15 1i 17 18
19
CHAIRMAN to --
JACZKO:
Okay,
good,
again,
just
just want your best guesses here,
appreciate it.
Just gives me context. MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. Speaking of context, I
seen .a story out of Washington State, radiation levels to determine if

CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
state monitoring
event poses threat.

Okay, and I did -if
Bill
Ruland is
that
still
-or
there,
maybe
or whoever,
it was
was it
I
Bill?
think,
Somebody
Scott,
20
21
raised
capabilities,
the
issue
of
us
--
having
some
monitoring
somewhere to
22 23 24 25 the D.C.
MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: and people listened. MALE PARTICIPANT:
Yes, Yes,
that was earlier.
I did raise that in
Okay,
listen,
well,
NEAL R. GROSS
272 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you know -at which but at we (inaudible), what is it have not really had much chance to watch any news
since the 7 o'clock call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE that's PARTICIPANT: Yes. And I was curious,
pushing your thoughts toward leaning
harder on the White House? CHAIRMAN the JACZKO: guy, and They their had Bill
science
weatherman
explaining reactor physics. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: would rather Excuse me. I think there is maybe not on a point camera, they're I don't
have, on or
least from
knowing our
that
background, DOE's, is, but
hearing
people,
particularly
care whose people it
but somebody who
spends their day doing reactor physics. MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN it's one JACZKO: thing but I if Which outlet was this? CNN. Okay. So, I think you there know, is, not
we're,
commenting 101,
on Japan,
think kind of the Reactor
I think is
much better coming from us. All right, I'll push a
MALE PARTICIPANT: message off to my counterparts,
as soon as we get off
NEAL R.GROSS
273 1 2 3 4 5 now, the the call. CHAIRMAN most JACZKO: Okay, I so, and think, then is right this
pressing
issue,
information, validity of
again, it, but
unconfirmed,
we don't know the significant
the possibility of a
core exposure. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2.1 22 23 24 25 Chief 3, is MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN that correct? MR.
trying to --
Which unit? Apparently, Bill, Unit
JACZKO:
Did we lose Bill? I'm still

NHK.
BORCHARDT:
here.
We're
we're watching this
Okay. This channel, and it's it?

Japanese
--
MALE PARTICIPANT:
MR. BORCHARDT: --
Which unit is
we have the
Cabinet
Secretary,
who we
understand,
is
going
to talk about core damage. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE the same complex? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: That's my understanding. Okay. Yes, Okay, Now, it is. PARTICIPANT: Okay. And this is a unit in
thank you. interestingly
NEALR. GROSS
274 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on another challenged, open one. MR. BRENNER: Sorry, I'm technologically enough, I'm watching CNN, and they're not on the
nuclear units,
right now,
which is
a good thing. Well, I that's it's mean, Saturday really, not that
MALE night basketball it's great. the
PARTICIPANT: night,
or whatever. span
American
attention CNN?
What channel is
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: MALE discontinue that. (OTR comments) CHAIRMAN JACZKO: PARTICIPANT:
Seventy-one. I don't know how to
Hey,
Eliot,
you're on an
when it
comes to my television. Are the WHOS on? This is the WHO. update on
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
OPERATIONS OFFICER: CHAIRMAN the couple of calls? OPERATIONS call, I'm OFFICER: trying to JACZKO:
Any progress
Mr. get
Poneman, through
he was to him,
again. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: OPERATIONS Okay, great. And the Japanese.
OFFICER:
Ambassador has not yet called in. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, good, thank you.
NEAL R.GROSS
275 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 have some up, now. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. PONEMAN: Okay, great. Hey, Dan? the line. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Hi. Mr. Poneman is coming MALE PARTICIPANT: Chairman, Josh is on
OPERATIONS OFFICER:
Hello. Dan?
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. PONEMAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN of our
JACZKO:
Hi, folks
it's here.
Greg, You're
and
technical
on a
bridge with probably about six or seven people.
14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 report just right. MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: I will. Right now, we got a But, confirm, and and Bill, just if you're make on, sure if I you get can this
'
listen,
CHAIRMAN
from them that they were listening and translating, or
to Japanese Japanese
television newspapers
translating
or press,
that indicated that one of the --would have
the third unit,
apparently at Daiichi is
NEAL R.GROSS
276 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 1 20 21 22 23 24 25 know unverified, know, because we I said, "Was that Unit 1 or with Unit Unit 3," 3, similar, almost the entire core uncovered at this time, which
would be more significant than anything we've seen at this point. I don't know if you're hearing anything
through
any of your
channels
or can verify
that or confirm that.
had
heard
about
problems
didn't know, I
they answered the question. did hear, also, and this is all you
and one of the concerning
things is,
we just are not getting clear facts, and we don't know which is
But that the Germans
as opposed
to swirl,
which.
-and I don't
have
over what
radius,
have
asked their
citizens
to
withdraw from the area. So, just right now, a hold of this stuff is kind of eaten up. I'm
in the process of seeing if
I can get
(inaudible)
because what's going to happen
NEAL R. GROSS
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277 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
had was is, until we get -and we're all sensitive to not
trying to basically,
take all the oxygen in
the room, on the one
while they're trying to manage this crisis, hand. On the other hand, if
things are going to get very
panicked,
we can't have some official conduit. Now, one thing strikes me, information Stern was has come we need to do, through about on that the
is
find
out that
what
channel
Warren
talking
conference today. So, that is the next thing on my list. to see if by, I
have reached out to (inaudible), a call.
he can take
to call
is
standing
ready
(inaudible) if But you know,
we don't reach Condo. I don't know, up Greg, on to we may some prevent

need of to, a
gather call
people here,
ki nd
too
conference
just
much I'm
confusion among our various agencies, thinking we may need to do that here. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: we may be at a point
before long,
I would agree.
I think do that,
where we may need to
relatively soon. You know,

true, it's --
again,
if
the information that I

and again., these are
you know,
estimates,
but it's
approximately hour, half-hour kind
of time frame,
before you would see really significant NEAL R.GROSS

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278 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that. So, this point, Ambassador, damage it's to the fuel, if the core were uncovered. So,
not a lot of time. We did get Bill a or call Margie, from if the you're Japanese on, if
again,
you can correct me if crafting a message,
I'm wrong,
looking for some help that they could
essentially,
release to the U.S. MR. Ambassador in BORCHARDT: Yes, it was the U.S.
Japan. JACZKO: okay, so, I'm sorry, the U.S.
CHAIRMAN Ambassador in Japan, So, a hold of them, and -MALE
I got that wrong. that we're trying to get
we have that, if
they need our assistance with that,
PARTICIPANT:
You
know,
think at
I think we need to just keep --
I think we
need to get people on the line. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: Okay. So, if I can't get
Condo~in the next few minutes here, suggest that at like {interferencel
then I'm going to -have our ops
people reach out and otherwise, flying around here, CHAIRMAN we'll and that's JACZKO: down.
we're going to be just not good. Okay, We good, won't let's proceed do to
stand
NEAL R. GROSS
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279 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 now it's is one channel. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. new information. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. recorded BORCHARDT: stuff, so, All right. Most of what we're getting it's kind of -I think BORCHARDT: Okay. We'll see if we get any stand by. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Yes. We'll keep monitoring this I'm just anything, and now, until we get that, you'll take care we get that call set up, -reaching out
of getting
to whoever needs to be reached out to, MALE PARTICIPANT: stay on the Yes,
to do that? we'll reach out. line, now, and
going to
other
we'll reach out to you,
as well. Okay, good, thanks.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BORCHARDT:
Thanks. Okay, Chairman, so, we'll
not what we need to hear. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: Okay. We've reached out to
(inaudible) and told them to come into the bridge line with the executive information, or is team. I think he's trying to get information from the
getting
NEAL R.GROSS
280 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 21 22 23 24 25 that call. Margie, if out, for us. we'll call, call. MR. BORCHARDT: Poneman was cutting in and can Government of Japan. So, that could be helpful. Okay, so, Margie, if you the
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: keep an eye on that, probably is too,
and then you know,
preference to us,
for him to be talking not just
but to everybody. So, you know, if you need specific things, but if we get this other
talk to him directly, it might be better
for him to get on that other
Did he have a proposed time that we were
going to have this call? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: I didn't get one. Okay, all right. So, trying
you tell
the Ambassador
that we're
to set up this call,
this would be a great opportunity
to get a single position established. MS. If DOANE: he wants Okay, to I will to try you to set up I
speak
before,
think you should just keep the lines open. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: the line here, bring him in. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, thank you. if Absolutely, I'll stay on just
he wants to speak to us before,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Bill?
NEAL R.GROSS
281 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 all --
MR.
BORCHARDT:
Yes. Do we have an direct
CHAIRMAN contact with Tony? MR.
JACZKO:
BORCHARDT:
No,
not yet.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. talked to him BORCHARDT: four hours
Okay. Not since he's landed. ago, maybe. Anchorage, I think We he
talked to the PCE, the time.
but he was in
Alaska at
CHAIRMAN landed in Japan, MR. yet?
JACZKO:
Okay,
so,
he
has
not
BORCHARDT: JACZKO:
Not
that can
we've
heard. at
CHAIRMAN
Okay,
somebody in
least make an attempt to reach out to him, has? MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO: Sure,
case he
we'll do that. thanks. Are you
CHAIRMAN
do you all
Okay,
have CNN on one channel?
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CNN.
MR.
BORCHARDT:
have
not been
watching
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BORCHARDT:
The science guy.
You've been watching him? Yes, he's there. He's
MALE PARTICIPANT: not there anymore, guy. but it was
(inaudible),
the science
NEAL R.GROSS
282 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 players. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Okay. on was going there little is CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Yes, Eliot, I am. Have you had any luck are you still on?
CHAIRMAN with the White House? MR.
JACZKO:
BRENNER:
No,
I'm actually
fixing
to
push the button on a message now. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, because I think
a high degree bit
of speculation. that we
I'm getting a have more
uncomfortable,
don't
credible voices right now. You to know, get on if nothing and now. else, say just somebody we don't have to
there right
accurate speculate.
information, Here is
We're
not going
what we know.
I think that would
be helpful. MR. (inaudible) BORCHARDT: Okay, we left voice-mail also.
area of the satellite Okay,
for Tony, thank you.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
He's in Okay.
the air, sir. Eliot, did you
ever make contact with Diaz? MR. BRENNER: I sent an email to all three
Haven't had a chance to get
NEAL R.GROSS
283 1 2 3 4
5
him on the phone. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: that may be another option, and of the three,
MR.
Okay, is
because
you know,
to get one of them on, is

I
my preference
BRENNER: Okay,
probably Diaz.
will -I'll tell
6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
you what I'll
do,
is
I'll
send a note to Jean Mazzura
and pass on his contacts. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. button on a note, BRENNER: And Okay. I!m about to push the
I'm blind-carboning Okay,
you on it.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: OPERATIONS up on the bridge, in
good. is coming
OFFICER:
(Inaudible) for the
preparation
Chairman's
briefing. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. kind BORCHARDT: at 10 Bill? We were I is scheduled to do
of an update on
o'clock. there
would seek your still information
recommendation
whether
to brief at this point, the line,
or we'll just kind of hold on
until we get some of the other results. MR. BORCHARDT: Yes, I think we just wait, four minutes, as we get is the going first
because whatever we tell to be out of date as
you in soon
conference call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, sounds good.
NEAL R.GROSS
284
1 2 3 4
5
MR.
BORCHARDT: Yes,
So,
Josh,
are you on?
JOSH: MR. the middle of
Josh is here. Yes, so, we're, I think in some

some
BORCHARDT: some
on
of
3,
evolving
and the
information,
electric --
unclear
status
Unit
6
7
unknown status on Unit 1.

We're trying -the Chairman has talked to
8 9 10 l
Poneman,
and Poneman
is
off trying to gather a group
of individuals to have a conference call that we would be part of, to get us all on the same page, at a
certain time,
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they had his So, Margie just came in and just said that gotten call, word to him, he that wants, we're but ready that to
answer
whenever
also,
told him about this conference
call that's being set
up and suggested that would be the best opportunity, if it works out, for him to get input and to give us
whatever information he has. So, we're somewhat in stand-by now,
waiting for Poneman and the Ambassador. JOSH: Great, thank you. are you on?
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Bill, NEAL R. GROSS

(202) 234-4433
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285 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it's this MR. watching CNN. BORCHARDT: Yes, we were just
I was just having a stroke,
at what this
one guy was saying. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. guy BORCHARDT: in Tokyo, who Is he talking reactors? he was talking -kind of giving a
Well, is
summary of what he understands, have had 40 inaccurate
and he had -you know,
he must about how
statements,
iodine protects you from all CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. don't know, it BORCHARDT: was just bad. JACZKO:
radiation. Okay. You know, that -I
11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 probably
CHAIRMAN
But maybe
that answers
the question I was about to ask you. I'm going to send an email the last person we talked to that we right now, to
just really pushing hard, need a credible expert, MR. now talking. Yes. Would you concur? Yes, Okay. I think so.
BORCHARDT:
Because certainly, right now.
a lot
of mis-information going out, MR. BRENNER:
And my staff is
sending
me
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com
286 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 I CC'ed you, it right now. MR. BRENNER: Yes. I'll BCC you and Bill. thanks. I sent the email. note? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Yes, I'm going to send notes about how bad it CHAIRMAN is. JACZKO: Eliot, I mean, do you
think we should offer up somebody? MR. BRENNER: Well, at this hour, no.
Okay. maybe.
Tomorrow morning, Okay. Why don't you
send
your
All right, Okay,
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Bill, and Eliot.
MR. MR.
BORCHARDT: BRENNER: Got
Thank you. it. Hey, Boss, I was
just reading some of the clips here, I keep seeing Peter Bradford
and I see that -all over the
quoted
place. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: It Yes. references a conference
call organized by nuclear opponents. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I saw that there was a
NEAL R.GROSS
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287 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 .8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -little I mean, no. But I point it's is do we in there. MR. Joel Lochenbock over that piece. CHAIRMAN strike JACZKO: out on Okay, I mean, at I what guess Nobody BRENNER: (phonetic), And there is a post piece by reference, sites, or I saw a story on one of the aggregate
with a bunch of different people. MR. BRENNER: Yes. And he had some quotes
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
the usual suspects are all
our own?
I mean,
probably too late tonight at this point. watching the news anymore. MR. BRENNER: Yes, at this hour probably
tonight, going to
think
tomorrow,
we're
have to do some of that. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BRENNER: Okay. effect, by being
We have in
good team players,
seeded the field. Yes, well, I would still very we just
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: again, in the end,
there is
just still I mean,
information we can talk about.
don't know enough. MR. BRENNER: Yes. Now, we're back to Bill
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
Nye and the meteorologist.
NEAL R. GROSS
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288 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we get back with the U.S. line? MR. BRENNER: Yes, I am. Did I miss the 10 MR. BRENNER: Yes, it doesn't stop my
desire to go out and blacken a few eyes. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Hey, MR. BRENNER: Yes. Are you at least doing Eliot?
CHAIRMAN
JACZKO:
background off the record stuff in? MR. BRENNER: Yes.
that reporter
do call
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay. Eliot, are you on the
FEMALE PARTICIPANT:
FEMALE o'clock call? MR.
PARTICIPANT:
BRENNER:
No,
we are holding to see if
Ambassador in
Japan will come on. Okay, thank you.
FEMALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO:
Hey, Yes.
Bill?
CHAIRMAN
I'd
like
your
recommendation on what you think would be the best use of my time at this point. MR. BORCHARDT: Poneman call, or and Well, the I mean, I think if to be
with that
Ambassador, that, I'd
involved
after
just
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
289 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 2 21 22 23 24 25 That is brief? MR. BORCHARDT: because that's Seven when o'clock, -okay. up if you that's then to on, then I think it engage you, and try to if get the some rest, to be honest to be with get the
especially on
White if
House
decides going to
active
communication,
you're
front guy,
you want to be on your game. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Well, you know, I mean,
would be good to have you on the call with if at all Okay, possible. I agree, I think
the Ambassador and Poneman, CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
a good recommendation. get off call me, the bridge. and
I am going to plan now If those others to do get start
otherwise,
I'm going
getting ready for bed. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. But do call and wake me of course, if any other
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: need to, and or
information changes, MR. I think maybe if
and we'll go from there. Okay, and then we'll -what time
BORCHARDT: --
maybe like at 6:00 a.m.,
would you like to do the brief tomorrow morning? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: How about a 7:00 a.m.
will be good,
Mike Weber
coming to relieve me.
NEAL R. GROSS
290 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on, you -CHAIRMAN JACZKO: I talked to -Dan came old one. DR. LYONS: Okay, I'm sorry, okay. Did CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: so, he'll Okay. And he'll be going off
shift at that time, continuity,
be up to speed and have
that would be a good time. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, Dr. okay, good.
OPERATIONS OFFICER: coming on the line. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DR. BORCHARDT: LYONS:
Lyons from DOE is
Okay. Okay, thank you.
David Lyons. How are you? tired, like you are. Greg. been an I
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: DR. got your email, LYONS: Well,
saying we should call you, JACZKO: That
CHAIRMAN
may have
about maybe 30 or 35 minutes ago. relayed to him, too. Bill, and again, correct
I relay to you, on
what I the
Bill.Borchardt is me if I get
line,
anything
wrong.
NEAL R. GROSS
1 2
S
We doubled back with GE. zero GE indicated would that based on their design concept, level be at the top of fuel. So, -3 meters would indicate, that -3 now, this is
13 8
21 12 13 14 15 IE 17
1E
our extrapolation, the core has been
meters would indicate that fully, or pretty much
uncovered,
close to fully.
19 2C
18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
292 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that. I CHAIRMAN JACZKO: think, Bill, Okay, you well, I appreciate we're
unless
disagree,
NEAL R.GROSS
293 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on the line? that and asked means. DR. LYONS: Well, all I can say is that we never know, again, probably not going to necessarily comment on any action, since we don't have any specifically situational
awareness of where they are. But that's helpful information, and you
the report we had was unconfirmed and not
really corroborated. So, it's unclear what, if anything, it
specifically
multiple
times,
and lCondo
agreed that the core was uncovered. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: DR. LYONS: Okay, Okay, good. Greg.
thank you, Thanks.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: DR. LYONS:
Take care. Okay, good.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: DR. MR. you LYONS:
Good night. Okay, we'll I guess expect wait so, to well, see that back we got if the
BORCHARDT: know, so, and
Ambassador happened, Poneman?
calls, we
since to hear
called from
shouldn't
(No audible response) MR. BORCHARDT: Chairman, are you still
NEAL R.GROSS
294 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everybody. MR. BORCHARDT: Okay. Apprecia te it. All righ.t. breaks. brief. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: Okay, good, thanks he won't, thing, path, off. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: got off that call and hung up. So, I'm going to proceed then, down the Hi, everybody. Sorry, I MALE PARTICIPANT: The diffuser dropped
and I'm going to start MR. BORCHARDT:
trying to get some rest. Okay, so, the if only they
we'll call you if
we hear from Poneman,
try to set up that conference call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Yes. Which sounds like maybe
since he already had that other phone call. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Yes. Or if we get the
Ambassador on the line. CHAIRMAN else transpires. MR. BORCHARDT: 7:00 a.m., If something else JACZKO: Yes, or if something
Otherwise,
we'll plan to do a full
NEAL R. GROSS
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295 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 changed, briefing? CHAIRMAN JACZKO: room White House is MR. No, let's see, situation (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Hello? Bill Borchardt, Hi, Hi. Looks like we have a Bill. here. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: (CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED) Bye.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: JACZKO:
CHAIRMAN
call on for
11:30. MR. BORCHARDT: Are you talking about our
going to do a call at 11:30. Okay. So, if you can walk me information. well, nothing has
BORCHARDT: JACZKO:
CHAIRMAN through again, MR. really,
just high level latest BORCHARDT: Okay,
from our last situation. the one where all the questions
Unit 3 is
NEAL R.GROSS
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296 1 2 3 are currently -where there is a lot of uncertainty. Okay. And the last we heard was
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. the -BORCHARDT:
4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
your conversation with Pete Lyons. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Unit 3 Okay. In which Condo stated that had any core uncovery, and
he
didn't
believe
that the beginning venting. We haven't -we just haven't seen
anything on any of the press coverage, any direction or another. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. Unit 1, as far BORCHARDT: as we can Okay. So, tell,
to point us in
that hasn't the
changed. is
situation
relatively stable now. any increases of
We haven't seen any reports of levels or any additional
radiation
venting action. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. about it. BORCHARDT: Okay. So, I mean, that's really
We've worked up some talking points for the Japan. Good. But the basic line, if we
Ambassador in
can get him on this call at 11:30, to him, would be that the current
and we'll reach out local authority's
NEAL R. GROSS
297 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18
19 to me in
recommendation
on evacuations
seem appropriate,
based
on our understanding of the current situation. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. recommend to him, BORCHARDT: Okay. And we have no basis to
anything different. Okay. But you know, just like
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. here, the BORCHARDT:
locals
have the most up to date, it's
accurate
information, what we have.
and certainly,
got to be better than
Than what we have, All right? Absolutely. And you know, change in
yes.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. that, you know, BORCHARDT:. plant
the event
conditions
dramatically, but you know,
we'd have to revise that recommendation, we don't have anything at this point. CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
an email, just --
Okay,
I
can you send that

those talking
mean,
20 21 22 23 24 25
points in
an email? MR. BORCHARDT: Sure. Yes, we have a few
FEMALE
PARTICIPANT:
edits and we'll get them right to you. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, Sure. good.
NEAL R.GROSS
298 1 2 3 4 5 1830 status. CHAIRMAN JACZKO: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1I 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 anticipate, situation still on? MR. BORCHARDT: I'm sure they are. Okay. This is Hi, I the WHO. can you able to get MR. BORCHARDT: Okay, good. you could CHAIRMAN just do a JACZKO: And then, too, Bill, with maybe
quick email, as well? Okay,
just the
high level on the plants, MR. BORCHARDT:
we're updating that
And we'll hopefully to be
that out in
a few minutes. Okay, Okay, Is great, thank you.
yes. someone from the WHO
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
OPERATIONS OFFICER: CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
think,
or be on the look out for a call room at the White House, to get
from the me on an
11:30 call? OPERATIONS OFFICER: Okay, who do you want
me to call
right now,
if
we get that call? Sorry, Greg Jaczko. sorry, sir.
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
OPERATIONS OFFICER: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: OPERATIONS
Okay,
Yes. Okay, we will call
OFFICER:
NEAL R. GROSS
(202) 234-4433
299 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (CONFERENCE home number you as soon as we get a call from the White House. CHAIRMAN is JACZKO: Okay, and my
(0
the best number. OFFICER: Okay, we'll call
OPERATIONS at the home number.
you
CHAIRMAN JACZKO:
Okay,
thank you. sir.
OPERATIONS OFFICER: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: CALL CONCLUDED)
Thank you, bye.
Okay,
NEAL R.GROSS
300 1 2 3 4 5
6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know, everybody. Headquarters links now, (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) OPERATIONS Operations OFFICER: Officer. This We're is the the
unmuting
between the two bridges. PARTICIPANTS: Randy Muster, Cindy
(CONFERENCE Peterson, Brian Haney, Charles Howell,
Mike Franovich, Mike
Jenny Wilde, Michael K. Bill Ben
Elena Galloway, Marshall, Kathy
Smith, R.
Johnson,
Kennedy, Neller, Reddick,
William Orders, Greg Billy Warnick, Dixon,
Stewart-Clark, Mayer, Hart Linda
{multiple
inaudible's}) MR. BORCHARDT: All right, good evening
This is I'll
Bill Borchardt.
give you a quick run-down of what we need to preface again with, at 11:30 p.m. tonight is that the no better
although I flow
information than it
was-previously.
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
www.nealmross.com v
301 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the best So, that the we're still we can, just trying various coming that to integrate accounts, this one that
news off we of
especially, Japanese
information news
television
feed
have,
occasionally has some good information,
and then using but to
whatever we can get from a variety of sources, be honest with you,
a lot of those one and two time
sources turn out not to be all that accurate. But so, the best that we have is that the
situation in Unit 1 remains essentially unchanged from the way it the initial was eight hours ago, situation which blew that off that, you know, after
ended the
up in roof on
the hydrogen the reactor
explosion, building, in tact, from
we now believe that the containment remains that that was a hydrogen leak coming probably gas treatment system that caused the
stand-by
explosion, has been
and that we have no indication any containment, primary
that there breach
containment
and no breach of the reactor. They were using an unknown injection path into the reactor to put in borated sea water, were also using, and they
I think, a fire pump to put sea water to provide
into the basement of the reactor building, cooling of the source. So, as far as we know, NEAL R. GROSS
that is
still
the
www.nealrgross.com
302
1 2
3
condition on Unit 1. There

although they may
is
be
no known
trying
problems
to work
with
--
Unit
to
2,
get
with
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
NISA's permission to vent the containment, just due to kind of a due very to gradual heating
but that's increase in they
containment
pressure,
up,
but
don't have any containment cooling system.
But there was a change in that eight hours ago,
in
Unit
3 status, injecting
HIPSI was running,
water into the vessel. What we believe happened is be expected over time, pressure in that, the as would reactor you HIPSI
decreased, know,
that got to the trip point for HIPSI, somewhere around and now, 150 pounds.
probably
automatically turned off, able, to the best of
they have not been been able to
our
knowledge,
create a low pressure injection flow path. So, that is why there is uncertainty,
NEAL R.GROSS
303 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 the regarding Unit 3. They have plans to relieve the pressure in containment, as to but what like the I next say, step it's that highly will be
uncertain,
successful will be.
They weren't able to restart RIK-
SEA or any other kind of low pressure injection. Units 4, 5 and 6 were previously shut down
and remain of not a lot of concern. There are a couple activities going on
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
right now.
There is
a meeting,
conference call going
on with Deputy Secretary Poneman and the Chairman and a number of other people, Government, situation is, at least because to try to get some united on what the current
agreement we were
developing
diverging
views between various agencies and departments. So, on, to try to there is come to a separate phone call going one view of the current
situation.
213
22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS
1 2 3 4 5
7 8 9
10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 fast. So, having said that, let me just go real
Do you have anything additional? MALE PARTICIPANT: Nothing additional.
NEAL R.GROSS
305 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 reports, We they're there confirm. hooked power up for notified phone? MALE that PARTICIPANT: were Earlier today, we were the anything in team? MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BORCHARDT: No? questions for anybody on the No. Protective measures, MR. BORCHARDT: Anything from liaison
addition? Okay, any
there
three
diesels
onsite,
fourth was coming. MR.
Have any been hooked up? BORCHARDT: Nothing is that we can
We believe that there in the Unit 1, that's water
a temporary diesel the source into of the
probably being
borated
injected
reactor vessel on Unit 1. But I don't know if using. to be You know, we that's just the slug-system don't know, but
has
some electrical is, that's
power
supply
to make
whatever vessel.
pump that
going
into the reactor
So, don't know
we of a
think
that's
a diesel
temporary going
diesel.
temporary
to any of
the other units. MALE that PARTICIPANT: had brought in There extra was initial and
they
diesel,
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross.com
306 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8
were trying to cross-tightening that source, the diesel, never issues, got
bringing but we
and they were having some problems, an additional report about
subsequent
whether the event was successful or not. But as you said, Bill, we're drawing the they must
inference that if have some power,

MR.
they have a pump running, some electric.
BORCHARDT:
Let me also --
I forgot to
9 1 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
follow up on some of the things I mentioned at 7:30. We are developing some talking points that the regional state liaison officers will be able to So,
use tomorrow morning,

they'll
to reach out to the States.
have some talking points for --
to try to fill
the information vacuum that exists there. We're also working on some Q&A's that are being reviewed by the Chairman, now, that go beyond set
the Q&A's from 10 or 12 hours ago. focused on the event in Japan.
The original
The additional Q&A's focus,
have to do with kind of more of a shift to U.S. as to, event you know, in the what would happen if that was
we had a seismic design basis,
U.S.,
the U.S.
those kinds of questions.
245
25
NEAL R.GROSS
307 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 technical Bill, When we've do we now. MALE got -expect PARTICIPANT: there them One more question, So, let me just re-open for questions,
m I
are two people on
headed over.
to be
the ground and what
are they going to do? MR. BORCHARDT:. flight is Well, -Bill Ulses, Tony, who went yes, to with land now.
over on a chartered the U.S. an Aid hour group,
sorry,
probably be landing
expected
within
or might
right, about
That flight was delayed for a number of hours. He is going to that to be acting and as a nuclear else --
advisor
group
however
NEAL R.GROSS
(202) 234-4433
www.nealrgross.com
308 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 right, calls, so, if whatever other support that group might need. So, now. Jim Trapp is on a commercial flight, will he is actually expected to be landing right about
be landing around 7 o'clock in So, eight hours from now, and I to be
the morning,
our time.
and he is
going to be met know exactly suspect he's
by the Embassy, how he is going used
suspect,
we don't but I
utilized,
going
to be
by the Ambassador's because
office
to help
interpret nuclear information, anybody on the staff,
they don't have
really qualified to do that. All right, Yes. have Anybody another thank you. else? of All these
MALE PARTICIPANT: MR. BORCHARDT: plan to
we'll
one
you're so inclined to call in, and have a good evening.
at 7:30 a.m.
tomorrow morning,
NEAL R.GROSS

Nuclear Regulatory Commission - Transcript - Telephone Call 12tth May 2012 (Ref 120512.2052a100)

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Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Japan's Fukushima Daiichi ET Audio File

Saturday, March 12, 2011

Work Order No.:

Okay. a quick synopsis Condo to Mr. of the

Poneman. this the

that Unit 1 at Daiichi, to Oyster Creek,

Yes. the is information core damage in at the

Based on that there

and that they are very recently in

of the wind direction,

from vehicles, core.

summarizing what you said, Just what summarize, it means, so what

again? we the can put into would

at this point? MALE PARTICIPANT: You know, Chairman,

some core damage,

comfortable back to that

MALE PARTICIPANT: CHAIRMAN JACZKO: soon as you can.

And just get me that,

(CONFERENCE CALL CONCLUDED)

5 1 2 3 4 5 (CONFERENCE CALL INITIATED) MR. DORMAN: Good morning, Chairman.

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MR. DORMAN:

How are you? How ar e you,

and just added that this is yet, a

could get there. Okay. And I just wanted to

CHAIRMAN double-back the plane? MR.

can give us an update. MS. DOANE: Yes, we just heard.

on the plane. Okay, good. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: Okay.

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: It

Yes. could be a possibility. person, have 10

very good experts. CHAIRMAN mean,

That's what you want. JACZKO: if it Yes, I think we it should doesn't

got the Navy

involved to get dosimetry,

rather have double,

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: Great, JACZKO:

CHAIRMAN things that you know, MR.

at this point? No, sir. Okay, I also did push to to

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: possible,

to get somebody from NISA,

Okay. That's good.

they can make

that we haven't gone to is

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: So,

But her staff, Yes, you you

I don't know. could try again, I it.

CHAIRMAN think if it's

Again, Poneman was more anything

not necessarily together at

this point. So, it was a good confirmation, seemed to be but it -with

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

the Midwest 11:30,

our time. Okay. note went to. (inaudible)

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: MS. DOANE: The

I don't know. And then, importance or again, of I just having, earlier,

CHAIRMAN JACZKO: want to re-emphasize by the the

run that could help,

for the purposes of the scenario because policy. into

of better bounding what the realities are, it and I will be to

CHAIRMAN you know, while

9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 well, and if around waiting for information, make sure we do if