Kinds of Love:

Eros (contd)
Symposium
Socrates (5
th
c. BCE)
known only through works of his student,
Plato
speech in Symposium most
likely Platos philosophy put into
Socrates voice
Symposium
Socratic dialogue teaching through
conversation, Q & A
e.g., Socrates questioning Agathon; Diotima
questioning Socrates
Symposium
Agathon famous tragic playwright
speech given just before Socrates full of
rhetoric (grand, artful speech designed to
impress and sway people)

main thrust of Agathons speech Love is
beautiful
critiqued by Socrates
Speech of Socrates
Socrates (responding to Agathon) love is
relational (its always the love of
something)
love is desire; a desire for something we lack
even if that something is the permanence
of what we currently have
Speech of Socrates
thus Love is beautiful doesnt make
sense
rather love is the lack of, and therefore
desire for, beauty and goodness
this is explored through an imagined dialogue
between Socrates and Diotima
Speech of Socrates
if love desires and thus doesnt possess
beauty and goodness, does that mean
its ugly and bad?
just because something isnt one extreme,
doesnt mean it has to be the opposite
e.g., if you have correct judgment of
something, but cant give the reason why
youre in between understanding and
ignorance
Speech of Socrates
love is an intermediate
Love is not a great god (beautiful and happy)
nor a mortal (generally ugly and crappy), but
an in-between spirit
Love is a mediator between humans and
gods a spiritual connection to the divine
source: www.modernlifeblogs.com
Speech of Socrates
re-conceived myth of Eros: born the son
of Resource (or Plenty) and Poverty
love always lives with need (like poverty), but
is ever-resourceful in pursuit of goodness
quote from text: As the son of Poros and
Penia (pp. 48-49)
Speech of Socrates
love is the fundamental desire for
possession of the good
otherwise put, the desire for happiness
quote from text: The love of beautiful
things (p. 50)
the lover of good things desires to possess
them; when he does, he is content/happy
Speech of Socrates
so is everyone always in love, since
everyone desires happiness?
many different ways to pursue happiness
Speech of Socrates
is there a best good? A best form of
happiness? yes!
therefore, there are higher and lower kinds of
love though its all a form of desire
Speech of Socrates
Diotima responds to Aristophanes idea
of lost halves
But according to my story, a lover does not
seek the half or the whole, unless, my friend,
it turns out to be good as well. I say this
because people are even willing to cut off
their own arms and legs if they think they are
diseased (p. 52)
in other words, we desire that which is good
the good itself which can be found in things
Speech of Socrates
Diotima were all pregnant and desire
to give birth in beauty
???
(not literally!)
Speech of Socrates
we desire to possess good things (or the
good in things) problem is, things dont
last (therefore neither does happiness)
what we truly desire the most basic form of
love is perpetual (eternal, everlasting)
possession of the good
Speech of Socrates
whats the biggest obstacle to something
lasting forever?


whats the only answer humans have to
death?
Speech of Socrates
in order to defeat death, all humans desire
to give birth in some form
this birth is in beauty a truly creative act
comes from beauty
(is this true?)
Speech of Socrates
recap:
the lover desires the good; Love wants to
possess the good
not enough to have temporary goods: Love
wants to possess the good forever
we dont last forever; so Love must also
desire immortality
Speech of Socrates
if we cant live forever, then how?
self-immortalization through (pro)creation
source: www.inhabitots.com source: www.meltwater.com
Speech of Socrates
distinction between physical and mental:
Now, some people are pregnant in
body, and for this reason turn more to
women and pursue love in that way,
providing themselves through childbirth
with immortality and remembrance and
happiness, as they think, for all time to
come [notice pregnant here is obviously
metaphorical];
Speech of Socrates
while others are pregnant in soul
because there surely are those who are
even more pregnant in their souls than in
their bodies, and these are pregnant with
what is fitting for a soul to bear and bring
forth (p. 56)
e.g., Wisdom and the rest of virtue, which all
poets beget, as well as all the craftsmen who
are said to be creative (p. 56)
Speech of Socrates
procreation (pregnant in body) and
creativity/intellect (pregnant in soul)
both give birth in beauty require sharing
of love with others
result in actual children, or even better,
spiritual children (ideas, great works)
Speech of Socrates
but higher level still of love
one must ascend through stages lower to
higher levels of love
from text: A lover who goes about
this matter correctly must begin
(p. 57)
Speech of Socrates
stages or rungs on the ladder of love:
1) lover of one beautiful body
2) lover of beautiful bodies generally
3) lover of beautiful souls (or minds)
4) lover of beautiful activities, customs, laws
5) lover of abstract knowledge (theories,
ideas)
6) lover of Absolute Beauty itself the goal
of loving
Prezi by Sydney Goldstein
Theory of Forms
Absolute Beauty = the Form of Beauty
part of Platos Theory of Forms every
single object or quality that we can observe
has a perfect, pure, eternal corresponding
Form (or Idea)
dogs, humans, trees, computers, etc.; but
also attributes and qualities orange,
courage, love, etc.
source: hzt4ur.wikispaces.com
Theory of Forms
source:
artifactsorartifice.wikispaces.com
Speech of Socrates
highest love love of Form of Beauty
First, it always is and neither comes to be
nor passes away (p. 59)
hierarchy of loves: love of physical beauty
love of minds love of customs, laws love
of Beauty itself, absolute, pure, unmixed, not
polluted by human flesh or colors or any other
great nonsense of morality (p. 59)
Speech of Socrates
once weve beheld the Form of
Beauty, only then can we give birth
to true virtue
THIS is eternal goodness (for Plato)
love is the best way for humans to achieve
true, eternal goodness and happiness
Speech of Socrates
we must perceive and experience Absolute
Beauty with our own mind cant be
taught

(compare this to contemporary society
try Googling Absolute Beauty)
Speech of Socrates
Beauty and Love are objective common,
universal nature
Form of Beauty is not in the eye of the
beholder
Speech of Socrates
ultimately, love is for properties rather than
actual people or things
Plato suggests that all love (not only at the highest
rung of the ladder) may be a desire for an inanimate
thing. Goodness and beauty are properties
inanimate items existing among the furniture of the
universe. So, if one loves a beautiful horse, the
horses beauty is the beloved, the object of ones
possessive desire, not the horse. The horse is only
the occasion of love, the vehicle that carries loves
genuine object (Soble, p. 23)
Speech of Socrates
questions that arise from Platos account:
What scope is left for normal love between
people?
Is the ascent to the Form of Beauty possible
in a relationship with one person, or does it
require transcending from physical
relationships altogether?
Do we need a guide?
Speech of Socrates
is Platos idea of love e-type or a-type?
Soble: e-type, because we desire the property
or quality of beauty

criticisms of Platos idea of love?
Gregory Vlastos: It does not provide for love
of whole persons, but only for love of that
abstract version of persons which consists of
the complex of their best qualities (Soble, p.
24)