TRANSCRIPT OF AN INTERVIEW

Between Detective B. CLARK & Mark TWITCHELL

On 2008 Oct 20
At Edmonton Police Services Headquarters

File #08-137180

(Background noise)

Elapsed time 00:01:09

(Door opens)

CLARK Hi Mark thanks for waiting.

TWITCHELL Yeah. (Door closes)

CLARK So as you know Mark we’re just here uh trying to find uh this John
fellow. John ALTINGER.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Um I have no idea what happened to this guy. But my job is obviously to
uh find him. Right? Uh we don’t know if he’s met with foul play or if a
crime’s been committed here we don’t know any of that.

TWITCHELL Right.

CLARK I mean we’re simply looking for a missing person that that his friends
have reported missing. He’s been gone for quite some time now.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK And of course you came into the picture because we know he went over
to that garage.

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TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK At some point and that’s why uh Detective TABLER uh talked to you.
Now like I told you I don’t know if a crimes been committed but I I just
wanna tell you that you know part of part, part of all this is that you can
contact a lawyer at any time if you want. If you wanna talk to one
you’re free to do so, I’ll take you to a phone you can call one.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Um right now like I say I don’t know if I’m investigating a crime or I’m
just investigating a missing person. I don’t know if this guys met with
foul play or what that’s my jobs to get the truth right.

TWITCHELL Right.

CLARK That’s that’s why so we have to talk to anybody who may have had
contact with him or may have anything to do with any of the
circumstances around that.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK And that’s why you’re here. So appreciate you coming in on your own
accord. I mean uh I know it’s been a long time and we’ll try and get
through this. And uh get’cha outta here. Alright. As part of my
investigation if uh foul play has occurred, uh or if I find out that foul
play has (Stammers) occurred to to John. Then you must understand
that anything you say to me can be used as evidence in court. Okay.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK So I can take that down in writing and use it as evidence in court if it
came to that. Okay? And as again (Stammers) I don’t know what
happened to him. For all I know he he could be out someone’s house
right now I don’t know but we’re just trying to find this guy cuz his

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 friends are obviously concerned. Do you have any questions about that
stuff? What I just told you in that right now anything about that?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Okay. I really appreciate you took the time to write everything down. It
was a great statement. You went into great detail and uh that was
good. I I read it over I mean there there’s obviously a few things I just
wanna cover with you on that.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK One of the things I’d like to do is uh I mean you you wrote very detail do
you you’re a good writer

TWITCHELL I

CLARK like you went into a lot

TWITCHELL I tried

CLARK of detail.

TWITCHELL yeah.

CLARK Yeah and that’s good. It just that I always find when people talk about
it they tend to to probably go into a little bit more detail. That you
might not write down the little little things you know.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK So one of things (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL Pardon me (Overtalk)

CLARK I like to (Overtalk)

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TWITCHELL for the eye thing it’s just my contacts (Overtalk)

CLARK Oh that’s okay yeah I know it it’s late too. Um one of the things I like to
do is… this is your interview not mine. Okay. I’m just here to get the
information and assist you in trying to get that information. Some little
things. What I want you to do is talk basically talk me through um the
garage. You know start at the beginning.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Talk me through it. I’m gonna let you talk through it. I’m gonna then
ask you a few questions I want you to relax, take your time, take as
along as you need. Go into as much detail as you can and try and think
about the little things.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Try and remember the little things cuz you you might not think it’s
important

TWITCHELL But it could be.

CLARK but it might key on something that I know or someone else has told us
you know that type of thing.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK And then what we’ll do is once once you’ve gone through it is I’ll just
take you back and I’ll just ask you a few questions to really key on
certain little things. Uh and that might twig your memory you know.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK And and that’s why (Stammers) this is one of the things we do with any
of our witnesses.

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TWITCHELL Right.

CLARK So the smallest information can help.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK You never know. Don’t hold back anything even as unimportant as you
might think it might be tell me it.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Cuz you never know. And uh I’ll just let you go and like I say take as
much time as you need.

TWITCHELL Okay. No problem.

CLARK So basically start with um I know about the garage okay I don’t think we
need to go through all that I know how you rented all and I know that
you make movies I don’t think we need to go through that. But basically
start at the beginning where you think all this starts to come about in
regards to this fellow that’s missing.

TWITCHELL Where it starts to come about okay. Um… well I guess the place that I
could think where any of it would start would be where uh when it
gotten to the point where someone else got access to the place. And uh
I mean it still only speculation at this point cuz I don’t know from
(Stammers) the incident that happened with my car.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL But uh that the information getting out there is the thing that would
stand out to me. So… like when I go back and try to think about who
else knows about the project about what we do there. Uh my whole
crew. A couple of cast members. There’s uh I was posting casting calls
on places like Facebook. Stuff like that and uh didn’t really get into the

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 details of the location unless I was actually communicating with people
about it or if I was considering people for a role or crew conditions. So
that’s the part from like communication off of my end anyway getting
out to the world as to that area. Uh… and then uh… the more direct
version of course was when the break-in with the car happened on the
eighth. And uh… just noticed that these things were all missing in the
car. Um when Joss dropped me off looked perfectly fine. Um got in the
vehicle he took off and then that’s when I started notice that things
were missing. So found out my sunglasses were missing there were some
personal stuff there the cash and the change in the (Stammers) in the
cups and stuff like that and and of course my receipts and that
concerned because the Western Union one had my personal address on
it. And uh the rental receipts from Kirkside with uh the address for the
garage on there were in there. And uh I mean typically you know when
you live at a place like St. Albert but rent a garage out on the south, you
know it’s, if I saw that stuff I would assume that the person doesn’t go
there a whole lot. Uh maybe just because it’s used as like a workshop I
mean I was gonna use it for a workshop anyway but uh you know and for
a filming location and that’s I I don’t know like I can get into trying to
evaluate what someone else would be thinking all day if I want to but uh
I don’t know that’s that’s for me I think where it starts because and it’s
an unknown factor for me I don’t know how many people have that
information once one person gets it who they give it to or share it with
or (Stammers) who’s in their circle or where it ends up I mean…

CLARK Yeah exactly.

TWITCHELL For all I know (Stammers) like the guy could’ve just taken it in then
thrown it away and someone else picked it up I don’t know. But you
know its how you even try to track that. So… that I mean looking back
that’s where I would I see probably the leak and uh I don’t know like uh
it didn’t uh really occur to me again like I said until I started to really

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kind of talk it over with my wife and she brought it up and said well
what about what happened with your car. And then we reflected back
again on Thanksgiving uh the same thing was when uh we came home on
the twelfth and noticed that our door was unlocked which is really odd
for us because we usually habitually lock every time and uh it was just
odd that they were both unlocked like that and it didn’t you know it
didn’t set anything off I mean we were cautious it didn’t appear that
anybody had been in the house uh you know nothing was taken. I don’t
when I walk through a house like who walks through their house and
does a little mental inventory of where every little tiny item is. If
there’s something glaring different then you might notice it but I didn’t
see anything. Uh and we ended up just kind of chalking it up to our own
paranoia at the time we were just thinking oh well you know what we
were probably leaving with the kid and trying to get all our gear into the
car and these things are goin’ on uh what might one of us might not have
been paying attention and there’s something and just assume that the
other one took care of it when they didn’t and it ended up like that so
we’re kind of still not completely sure about that. Um and then uh like
anything cuz it’s around in that same weekend on the Friday I had gone
there to uh clean up the mess that we left from the last time we were
there on the shoot stuff like the coffee cups that we had in there.
There was a lot of garbage just from food and containers and things like
that that I was trying to get out of the way uh get stuff that had been
left in there from when I started renting it and junk like the bike and
stuff like that and getting that out of the way. Is uh my intention with
uh the film is to finish it up. It’s just basically one affect shot in the
whole thing so it doesn’t take a lot to complete. Get edited out there
into like film festivals. Submit it to places and see if we can pitch into a
series or a movie. And if that’s the case, if we have some sort of cause
or you know income level coming in to be able to continue that uh we’d
be able to use the same location because it’s so inexpensive to go back

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and do future episodes. So went over to clean the place up to get it
ready for whatever possible future need we would need it for. And uh
(Sighs) that was in the afternoon (Sighs) uh I know I was outta there at
least by five-thirty cuz I was be home at six. And uh and then the next
time that I remember being in there was in the middle of the week. So
that was the uh situation where I was picking up some cleaning material
to replace the ones that I had used. To go drop them off. Uh and then I
you know I went to fill up uh my jerrycan with gas and I think that I
might’ve forgotten to put that in the eight page version of the statement
but anyway um (Makes noise with mouth) I went to fill up my jerrycan
and then I pull over cuz I get this call from my co-producer on the phone
this guy from L.A. that’s helping me put together my big feature the day
players comedy. And uh so I stop I talk to him for a few seconds I try to
get some uh information out of him that he had like tried to tell me
before but I didn’t have the chance to write down once I got of the
phone then this guy uh taps on my window and at first I’m thinkin’ okay
he’s gonna ask me for like loose change or you know something like that
but he didn’t like a transient he seemed to be you know dressed like a
normal person. So uh I roll down the window and he asked me you know
hey buddy do you wanna buy a car and uh I said well you know I’m in a
car (Laughs) like I what do you mean. And uh he goes well I shacked up
with this really rich lady uh you know it’s like a sugar momma kind of
situation and she’s gonna take care of me and she’s even gonna buy me
a new car when we get back from a vacation that we’re gonna take. So
I’m just looking to unload mine and don’t really care that much how
much I get for it you know how much do you have on you. And uh so I
say well (Laughs) huh forty bucks. And with that tone and everything
(Laughs) like I’m not expecting anything here and he he’s like yeah sure
fair enough. Like you know what (Stammers) it’s here in the parking lot
where do you want it and so uh I go really uh okay um well I’m going to
this garage location that I had to drop off some stuff so you know follow

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 me over there so. (Big breath) he gets into his car follows me over there
I park on the uh side of the driveway that has the manual door to the
garage. He parks on the side that’s got the the power door I made it
purposely did that so that it would be easier to to get the car in there.
Uh went around to the passer- not the passenger door I’m saying
pedestrian door. Uh opened it up, opened the uh garage door with the
button that’s on the inside. And uh he drove the car in. Uh got out I
gave him the money he showed me some documentation uh I admit I
didn’t like pour over it in great detail but it looked like it was legitimate
insurance and registration for the vehicle. So I believed him. Uh and uh
then you know and it was a bit of a shift in him that I didn’t really take
(Stammers) into any kind of stock at the time uh looking back on it I
didn’t really try and to (Stammers) look through it and evaluate it I
guess it kind of seems a little off but I don’t know what it means it’s just
he was really easy going and excited and all that when he first
approached me uh when we got to the actually garage though he kind of
toned it all down seemed uh I don’t know if you wanna say distant but
he was like you know spaced out or anything he just kinda a lot more
serious and then uh at that point he you know we finish our transaction
he takes off, I’ve never actually like bought or sold a used car before so I
wasn’t you know familiar with the bill of sale thing. But uh he just
seemed like he was in a hurry to get outta there I was trying to be a
little more uh conversational maybe try ta see if I could you know in a
cordial way get some detail out of him but um he just seemed like he
was uh needing to get out so he left uh he ended up taking off back in
the other direction that we uh came from originally which was back
toward the Mary Brown’s where we uh had met. And uh it’s like a
couple of blocks different

CLARK Mm hm.

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TWITCHELL in terms of where the distance is there so. Yeah then he was gone and
then uh I took another look at the car I looked inside and everything like
that it seemed like it was pretty clean. Uh you know I’m thinking okay
what is there like you know two tons of cocaine in the trunk like I’m
trying to figure out what the catch is here I’m not making any
assumptions I’m not thinking oh this is you know… just luck or anything
like that I wasn’t uh thinking that I was just thinking okay well you know
until I can actually figure out what’s going on with the car we’ll see
what happens. Um but I noticed that it was also manual transmission. I
had no idea how to drive a stick. Um I was curious about uh if my buddy
Joss knew how to drive a stick because uh he had had a couple different
cars and uh so I gave him a buzz and I said hey man do you know how to
drive a stick per chance he goes yeah yeah yeah. So alright uh I told him
this ridiculous story of what had happened and uh and he goes really I’m
like well yeah I’m standing here with it in here so uh do you (Stammers)
do you wanna be able to just like park this thing in front of your house in
the meantime so that you know then by Monday I can check on it I’ll
register it uh or try to see through the AMA what’s going on just check to
see if there’s any lien’s on it or if it’s been reported stolen or anything
like that cuz I don’t wanna hang on to it obviously if that that’s the
case. So um he said yeah alright uh and uh we agreed to meet he was
just getting off of work. So uh he was on his way home anyways. He uh
stopped by the place uh we took a look. Uh you know went through
everything. Found a couple of basic things in the car it wasn’t anything
special there was like a paintball mask and um something in the glove
compartment (Stammers) to hold an electronic device or something I’m
not sure he said something about it might’ve been like an IPod plug I
don’t know but uh so I was like okay well whatever. Um you know let’s
just move the thing and that’ll be that. So he moved it into the front of
his house I kept the key and uh and then I just kinda didn’t really think
about it cuz I was pretty busy. I knew that I was gonna have a lot of

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 things to do throughout the next couple of days. I figured the next
opportunity I was gonna have to actually like go ahead and research this
was gonna be on Monday.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL So I just kinda put it outta my head for the time being. Uh that that was
that whole situation um it was kinda just a unexpected thing happened
somewhat outta the blue so it wasn’t something that (Laughs) really
kinda stuck out to me uh and this is of course I’m still thinking
everything is fine. Um and then it was Saturday night that same week
later on… when I got the call from the constable. So it was Constable
MAXWELL that called me. Ten o’clock. Roughly. At home. And uh so
I’m like okay well I look at my phones a lot it said private call I’m like oh
okay (Laughs) I don’t know usually what that means most of the time I
have caller ID so I can see who’s calling me but anyway I just answered
the phone uh he was you know asking me this is gonna sound really weird
but do you rent this garage at Fortieth Ave and I said well yeah why.
And uh he began to give me a little bit of detail as to to why he was
there and what was goin’ on with it and uh asked me if could come down
to check it out because it was a serious issue. Uh that they’re dealing
with a possible missing person. Uh that one caught me by surprise. I
was uh pretty blown away by that one I did like (Stammers) really. So I
mean yeah it’s takes me takes me by surprise like aback a little bit and I
go okay well so I (Laughs) I kinda pause to think about that for a minute
uh and then I asked him a couple questions he asked me a couple more
and uh and then at that point I’m like okay well you know he’s asking me
if I can come down and everything like that I’m not you know at first I’m
thinking about the logistics of crossing the city but then I realize it’s an
important issue I’m like okay. I’ll come down there lets see what’s goin’
on. Investigate the situation check it out because they’re telling me all
these things that don’t make any sense to me. They’re telling me that

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people are reporting that there’s parties going on in the garage or
around it or something and that is like confusing. I have no idea what
that’s about. They’re saying the lights are left on and that’s not
something I do. So I’m thinking (Stammers) that doesn’t make any
sense. Uh so I (Stammers) get my stuff straightened in my house get
back into the car and uh (Stammers) taking off and like my wife’s asking
me what’s going on what’s going on, I’m like you know what I just gotta
go something up with the rental garage. Gotta go down there. So I uh
on the way there had uh two different calls from Kirkside Real Estate so
I guess they were trying to check in with them with the Realtor and
everything like that and the Realtor’s calling me on the phone and so uh
and I’m pulling over to talk to them so I can actually focus on what
they’re saying and answer their questions and she was saying yeah I
don’t know what’s goin’ on but the police are saying this and that and
the other thing and they’re you know that’s not what it’s for or (Laughs)
they’re they’re it’s she’s almost got this tone like I’m the one with the
party going on. But uh I mean that’s absurd and so I’m saying no I don’t
have any idea what the hells happening. Uh I’m gonna find out right
now we’re I’m goin’ down there ta ta talk to them and she just asked
me to call her back and let her know what was going on. Um she was
checking with me more regularly so um she actually ended up calling me
and I was able to give her an update before I even had a chance to call
her back. So uh yeah I get down to the location uh Maxwell said just ta
like look for the police cars so I mean I’m assumed he parked in the back
when I was about a minute out from getting there he called me again
and just he said okay well we’re here we’re where are you I’m like I’m a
minute out so I’ll see you in a cuple of seconds. Uh came down my usual
route just off of Whitemud and Fiftieth Street. Hang a le- a right at the
Fortieth Ave there and uh went around the back. Maxwell was there.
Met him and uh another female constable I don’t remember the name.
But uh the two of them were there and so they said okay well lets see

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 what’s goin’ on in there cuz the lights are on now. And that one again
surprisingly. The lights are on right now okay. So I go reaching for the
gate they said the uh the gate might be locked closed or something and
I’m thinking okay well I don’t remember that but I went to reach for it,
it opened. Uh there was nothing blocking it so. Didn’t really know what
to think of that one. Came down the side uh sidewalk on the side where
the garage is come around to the pedestrian door, and um like okay well
let’s open this and see what’s goin’ on and the first think I notice is that
uh the padlock that’s locked on where the latch is that I installed wasn’t
my padlock. Uh I had initially put an original one on there that was a
different style. This one was foreign to me I hadn’t seen it before and
didn’t know what to do with that. Uh so they suggested just take the
latch off so uh he had like a little pocket screwdriver thing that he was
able ta actually like pull the screws out of the latch.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL So we were able to get that open. Uh and then uh you know just to see
if it was closed or not I mean I put my key into the deadbolt anyway.
Um you know like I mentioned before I never really trusted the deadbolt
cuz the realty company had told me that they replaced it um I noticed
that they they did a good job like the lock guy did a great job of putting
it on the door, um and I assumed that it works okay with the housing
that the bolt goes into to but uh from my perspective when I looked at
it, it didn’t look like it was that solid or sturdy. Maybe it is you know
but it looked like there was like missing pieces there was holes where
the wood was gone and stuff like that. So uh I never really trusted it
that much it’s the whole reason I did the padlock thing in the first place.
So I never took much stock in the deadbolt thing I didn’t treat it with uh
any kind of importance I barely ever locked it to my recognition I just
used the padlock and mostly trusted that. Um and then uh so yeah when
I when I opened it I didn’t I don’t remember in that moment at that time

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 if there was resistance or not. If it was open or closed. But uh the door
just opened anyway. And uh so then I step back and wait for the
officers to go in. Uh sure enough all the lights are on and uh they go in,
I step into the doorway and that’s where I stood the whole time. Didn’t
move and uh looked around and noticed that several things were out of
place. A lot of my cleaning supplies were missing or out of their
packages. (Makes noise with mouth) Some of the looks like some of the
paper towels are missing. Um… had a uh ammonia bottle that looked
like it was empty. I couldn’t tell from my other cleaner if that had been
used or not. And then uh I also noticed the uh like I ordered a steel
drum to use for a garbage can in that place. And uh the last time I saw
it it was all grey metal. This time it was like pink on over half of it and
uh looked like it had something dripping from the edges and stuff like
that and it uh when the officer opened it, looked like it had been used
to burn something. So that one was a bit of a shocker I looked around I I
noticed that uh there were garbage bags missing. I didn’t really did a
chance to do like a real I don’t know inventory and see what was there
and what wasn’t.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL In terms of anything like all original items I didn’t really have like a… a
chance to really go through it but uh… and one thing I really wish that I
would’ve tried to check for was that door. Cuz uh there’s those two
garage doors the one that has the automatic power one and the other
one that’s a manual and uh… I know that we were opening and closing
the manual one to figure out lighting for the shoot and I can’t remember
if we’d actually closed the lock on it and that’s just one of those things
that’s out of sight and out of mind. Don’t remember closing it back up
or locking that and if I would’ve remember that one I would’ve closed it
for sure but I don’t remember personally doing that. Um (Makes noise
with mouth) (Sighs) after everything checked out they got done with

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 that I left uh the garage with them. Got into the car, started filling out
my uh statement and uh waited for Detective Topma to show up. So he
got on the scene talked to them caught up on everything that was goin’
on. Uh and then (Stammers) you know we all came back to the South
Station at that point and uh went through that first videotaped
interview.

CLARK Anything else?

TWITCHELL Not that I can think of.

CLARK Mm. Just a couple a few things I wanna go over here what’s first of all
what’s your cell number?

TWITCHELL Nine seven seven.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL Seven eight four zero.

CLARK Is that the only one you have or do you have other ones?

TWITCHELL I have one other one.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL That ones two seven zero. Eight zero nine seven.

CLARK Which is? Why do you have two like what’s?

TWITCHELL Well I initially used it as one for home and one for work. I try to keep
that separate. So that I’m not getting you know and my phone numbers
not getting out and stuff like that especially for the business and
whatnot.

CLARK And which ones which?

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TWITCHELL Uh the seven eight four zero that ones my home one.

CLARK And the two seven oh is your work?

TWITCHELL Yeah. I try to use that one primarily for text because it’s cheaper to do
like in terms of (Unintelligible) messages back and forth between the US

CLARK Which one for text?

TWITCHELL the uh eight zero nine seven one.

CLARK The work one?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK So is that the one all the people call you on in regards to your business?

TWITCHELL I’m trying to shift it that way yeah. I started out with the other one for
the longer time. So I’ve got it still a lot of my contacts in there but I’m
trying to push it towards the other one.

CLARK Okay. Um… just basically I just wanna go back over the uh incident with
the uh first of all what type of car do you drive?

TWITCHELL I have a Two thousand and three Pontiac Grand Am.

CLARK What color’s that?

TWITCHELL Maroon red.

CLARK Now when you say Maroon red, what is it? Mm more maroon or more
red?

TWITCHELL Oh it’s maroon it’s yeah.

CLARK More maroon.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

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CLARK Two door four door?

TWITCHELL Four.

CLARK What about um your buddy’s that work with you there? At the garage.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK People around, what type of vehicles would they be drivin’ or?

TWITCHELL Uh (Sighs) okay other cars that have come there that I know of for a
fact. Uh my buddy Scott has a truck. Uh it’s a white one with a canopy
on the back I’m not sure of the make and model though.

CLARK Okay. Okay Scott, who’s Scott?

TWITCHELL Scott COOKE. He’s one of the guys that does production design for me
so he’s uh he works with uh Mike YOUNG and Jay HOWATSON in building
set pieces and stuff like that.

CLARK When’s the last time Scott would’a been there?

TWITCHELL Would’a been Saturday September twenty-seventh.

CLARK The weekend of the shoot?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay. What about uh Mike YOUNG and that? Did he drive?

TWITCHELL Uh yeah Mike’s gotta van.

CLARK And what about Jay?

TWITCHELL I don’t think he has a car.

CLARK So just going back to um I know you had talked to Mike TYLER I think it
was just last night right? That you

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TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK talked to him? The last time you were at the garage, when would that
have been?

TWITCHELL I remember it as Wednesday.

CLARK Last Wednesday so that’s nineteen

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK or fifteenth?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay and that’s the day you take the cleaning supplies there?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK And you buy those the same day?

TWITCHELL I think I did.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Where’d you buy them from?

TWITCHELL At a Home Depot.

CLARK Which Home Depot was that?

TWITCHELL (Sighs) oh which one did I go to. It was the one in St. Albert well by my
house.

CLARK St. Albert by your house?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

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CLARK Okay. Um… so before now the fifteenth Wednesday when’s the time you
were there before that?

TWITCHELL The previous Friday.

CLARK So we’re talking for (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL Tenth.

CLARK so it’s the tenth. Okay and what was goin’ on on the tenth?

TWITCHELL Uh in the afternoon I got there to clean up. That was my cleanup day.

CLARK Okay you’re cleaning up, what are you cleaning up

TWITCHELL Just

CLARK that day?

TWITCHELL what we left there from the shoot all the trash, the coffee cups, the
extraneous stuff any kind of like if there was anything left that was like
a an object like a cushion or something that had like my uh corn syrup
mix on it or something like that I try to get that outta there so it wasn’t
uh attracting bugs or anything.

CLARK Okay and was that the day that you wiped all the current corn syrup and
all that type of stuff?

TWITCHELL Yeah well we tried to manage that more on the shoot on the day uh cuz
that stuff just gets everywhere and that was an untested affect that we
actually done it was like two hours trying to dick around with that thing
just to make it to see if we could get it to look right. Um but so I mean
generally it’s the mess yeah. Trying to get anything that still had that
stuff on it outta there. I’m still not sure if I got it all.

CLARK Okay. So you’re there on the tenth, that’s the Friday.

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TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK What about before the tenth do you remember?

TWITCHELL Before the tenth. Uh I have to look at a calendar. (Mumbles)

(Unintelligible) the twenty-seventh uh I don’t know I I might’a gone back
a couple days after the shoot or something to try ta… see if there was
anything that I missed.

CLARK What do you mean see if there’s anything you missed?

TWITCHELL Well I rented well not rented I borrowed I borrowed some video
equipment from a friend of mine named Spencer COPELAND he had lent
us his uh camera to shoot with. His tripod. Uh and uh you know like the
basic uh video recorder machine ta save all of our footage to. And uh
when he came back to my place to pick it up he got the camera and the
recorder but he left a couple of cables behind and uh his tripod and stuff
like that. So (Stammers)

CLARK When did he pick that stuff up at?

TWITCHELL Oh I don’t remember. I don’t remember what day that was.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK So you remember being there on the tenth you were cleaning up was
there anybody with you are you by yourself?

TWITCHELL No it’s just me.

CLARK Alright. And when you’re doing the clean up then are you using
ammonia and all that on that day is there

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

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CLARK a big clean up or? So

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK and then on the fifteenth you go back with more supplies was it to clean
up on the fifteenth or what were you doing on the fifteenth?

TWITCHELL No that was uh because I had used so much cleaning supplies before to
try to get that place that uh I had realized I was gonna need more the
next time so if there was a next time I’d have that stuff there and so I
just dropped it off to stay there and be used in the future at some point.

CLARK Okay. When you’re there on the tenth what time are you there at?

TWITCHELL On the tenth so now we’re at, that was a Friday right?

CLARK Friday.

TWITCHELL Yeah no I got there around three. Left sometime between five and five-
thirty.

CLARK Okay and then on the fifteenth what time were you there?

TWITCHELL Uh the fifteenth was the Wednesday.

CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL Yeah that was I got the to that area around uh one-thirty. And then Joss
and I were both outta there before four. Four-thirty something like
that. I think it was like no… yeah it was before four o’clock it was
three-thirty to four around there.

CLARK Okay. And you and the fifteenth.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK That’s the day where the car comes into play.

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TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay. So going back now to here, what I want you to do is take your
mind back to the fifteenth.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Um… I’m gonna go through that whole day with you as to what was going
on on the fifteenth. Okay so now we’re going back till till last
Wednesday, four days ago.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Alright. Uh take me through your day there. Um tell me what’s goin’ on
uh right from basically the time you wake up.

TWITCHELL Hm.

CLARK And the reason I do that is I just I I like to bring my witnesses back to
important days, it’s an important day because this this is the day with
the vehicle.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK And I want you to just walk through uh tell me what you did from the
time you woke up. Uh take your time. And just walk me through your
day that day and then we’ll work our way up to the car and see if
somethin’ maybe (Stammers) that you might jog your memory you know
about somethin’ else that maybe might be important here.

TWITCHELL Okay. Uh well my days are pretty routine. They bleed together uh as
far as like anything specifically special about Wednesday in the morning I
can’t remember anything specific. Um usually I just I wake up
somewhere between eight and nine. Uh get up get ready. Um I can’t

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 really… it’s tough for me to work from home (Laughs) because of the
distractions that are there.

CLARK Uh huh.

TWITCHELL Uh but I I can get it done cuz I do have like an office in my basement and
so um I got up uh checked emails try to see what my plan was for the
day. I had some line items I’m sure that I need to get taken care of. Uh
a lot of that stuff is daily movie producing stuff which just has to do with
calling to follow-up with investors, sending out business plans uh getting
things followed-up on that way. Uh finding out as long as like you know
that our gap programs still going through that the all that information’s
okay. Um and just you know basically staying on top of that stuff. Uh
(Stammers) we come upstairs and sometimes if uh my wife needs to just
grab a shower I’ll watch the kid for twenty minutes before I leave and
sometimes it’s not necessary. Um they’re specifically Wednesday I don’t
remember which was which on that one. Cuz it just shakes up all the
time. Uh then I would leave. (Sighs) Throughout the morning if uh well
obviously picking up the cleaning supplies would’a been on my item list
so that shopping trip would’ve been one thing that I did that morning uh
but you know I can’t remember also if it was like either the (Sighs) the
Tuesday or the Wednesday uh these are the things that I don’t really log
in my mind, like saving the dates of the stuff. But uh picked the stuff
up. And then… my next destinations a coffee shop. I like to be able to
operate outta those it’s just a comfortable, comfortable environment I
can get on the phone and I can talk to people. Um do some basic
networking, write down some things that I need to remember. Things
that I need to send out. Uh (Sighs) if I have anything to pick up in terms
of uh like a Western Union or something like that that’s gone through
either through an eBay thing or something like that that I’ll get those
line items taken care of. Um I think on Wednesday I might of actually
shipped an eBay item. Go grab lunch. Uh and then after lunch was the

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 next destination was the uh garage. So started out for the south side.
Uneventful trip if I remember. You know

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL nothing special there.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL And uh… yeah that’s it and then the next the next thing was to stop at
the gas station.

CLARK What time do you get to the garage?

TWITCHELL Uh I got there right around a quarter to two.

CLARK What do you do there first?

TWITCHELL Well this

CLARK Like

TWITCHELL was the car thing

CLARK take take your

TWITCHELL (Unintelligible)

CLARK mind

TWITCHELL so

CLARK back to the garage.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Tell me (Stammers) what you’re driving, where you park.

TWITCHELL Sure.

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CLARK Um… what you notice.

TWITCHELL Well so I left the gas station and pull up and the the phone call takes
place with the co-producer. And uh talked to him, get the tap on the
window, I mean we went through all that. And (Overtalk)

CLARK Okay that’s what, that’s what I want you to take me back to.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Take me back to all that incident there. You’re you you’re let’s go back
to your lunch. You’re at lunch. Where do you go for lunch?

TWITCHELL I don’t remember.

CLARK Don’t know where where you went for lunch?

TWITCHELL No. Sometimes I grab a drive through or something like that but.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Where do you go from there?

TWITCHELL From having lunch?

CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL Then I go for well the gas station. So I mean my (Overtalk)

CLARK Okay when you say (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL my ultimate destination (Overtalk)

CLARK the gas station, which gas station are you talking about?

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TWITCHELL Oh the ones that uh just off of Whitemud and Fiftieth Street. When you
come off of Whitemud and turn on Fiftieth to go south.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL It’s the one that’s across the street from the Tim Horton’s right there.

CLARK What what brand what what station is that though? Is it PetroCan, Shell,
Esso?

TWITCHELL I think it’s Shell.

CLARK Okay. And what do you do in there?

TWITCHELL Uh filing up my jerrycan.

CLARK And what are you doing that for?

TWITCHELL Well two reasons, one it’s good to have it in the car in case I’m getting
low uh but also we were uh looking at getting a lawn mower I know it’s
kind of you know late for this season we were able to borrow and
electric one for uh our purposes this year but we’re gonna eventually
wanna get a gas powered one and it’s gonna be helpful to have for that.

CLARK Okay and where’s that jerrycan now?

TWITCHELL In my trunk.

CLARK Of your Grand Am?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay so did you use any of the gas out of that jerrycan?

TWITCHELL I put some of it in my tank. Yeah.

CLARK Okay. And when you’re doing remember how much gas you put in there?

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TWITCHELL Uh probably maybe half the can worth.

CLARK Okay. Like is it a big one or a small one or what?

TWITCHELL (Stammers) about like this.

CLARK Five gallon?

TWITCHELL Five liters or so. Yeah.

CLARK Okay. So you’re at, so you drive from lunch to the gas station?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK On your way to the garage?

TWITCHELL Right.

CLARK Okay. What happens next?

TWITCHELL Then I pull out I go continuing down Fiftieth Street with the intention to
turn right on Fortieth Ave in order to get to the garage. That’s when my
phone call happens.

CLARK Sorry just taking your back a step cuz I wanna I wanna really go over the
fine (Stammers) finite details here.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK This is why I find that when I do this even though you it’s it’s basically
irrelevant to what we’re getting at it will help you remember things
when we get to the meat of the (Stammers) story.

TWITCHELL Okay.

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CLARK You know. When you’re fillin’ up with gas, do you pull right up to the
pump, do you park to the side, do you walk up like how how does that
happen that (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL I park to the side.

CLARK Okay what do you then?

TWITCHELL Uh open my trunk get the jerrycan out.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL And then I go to fill it up.

CLARK Could anyone have been watching you at that time?

TWITCHELL Uh maybe.

CLARK Okay you didn’t notice anyone though?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Oh okay.

TWITCHELL I wasn’t really (Stammers) checking behind my back (Overtalk)

CLARK So do you

TWITCHELL or anything

CLARK remember which pump you went up to?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Regular, supreme…

TWITCHELL Regular.

CLARK Okay and then what do you do after you fill it up?

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TWITCHELL Put it back into the trunk and then go in and pay for it.

CLARK Okay so I don’t know that station but it’s just gotta is it a store or?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK A big store or that’s a little thing?

TWITCHELL Well it’s relatively big.

CLARK Okay was do you remember how many people were there or?

TWITCHELL Uh a handful probably three or four.

CLARK Okay so you just went in and paid? Do you remember cash, credit card?

TWITCHELL Cash I’m pretty sure.

CLARK Alright. So now you leave there, where do you head from there?

TWITCHELL Then I go on Fiftieth Street south and I’m going to take a right on
Fortieth Ave. That’s when the phone call (Stammers) makes place and
then I decided (Overtalk)

CLARK Okay a phone call now from who?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Who?

TWITCHELL From my co-producer.

CLARK What’s his name?

TWITCHELL (Sighs) uh his name is R.P. DANIELS. He well its Robert P. DANIELS he
likes to go by Pete he leaves his voicemail as R.P. but

CLARK Mm hm. And where’s he calling from?

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TWITCHELL Los Angeles.

CLARK And what company does he work for?

TWITCHELL Uh Sunflower Media Corp.

CLARK Or is he I was just gonna say is he self-employed but… And do you know
Mister DANIELS phone number?

TWITCHELL Yeah. Um don’t have it on me though.

CLARK Where do you keep that?

TWITCHELL In my uh regular phone. It’s in my car at the moment.

CLARK Okay. Alright so you get a call from him, where are you when you get
the call from him?

TWITCHELL I am almost right at Fortieth Ave about to turn right.

CLARK So what do you do then?

TWITCHELL Uh pull over. At that point. Cuz I don’t wanna be on the phone and
driving at the same time so I--

CLARK Okay and where do you pull over?

TWITCHELL I pull over like just as I turn on Fortieth Ave. Right at that street there.

CLARK So as I recall there’s that little strip mall there.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK You do you pull into the strip mall or on the street?

TWITCHELL On the street.

CLARK Okay. So which curb are you then would you be on the north curb?

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TWITCHELL South. Be south curb wouldn’t it? If you’re still facing--

CLARK Well you were going south on Fiftieth.

TWITCHELL Oh if you’re yeah okay so north curb yeah.

CLARK Okay. So you pull and you stop there.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK And how long are you stopped there for?

TWITCHELL The entire time through the conversation?

CLARK Yeah like approximately how long (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL Oh (Sighs) maybe four or five minutes. Less than that I don’t know like
with time it’s weird because you say like you know thirty seconds but if
you actually sit there and let thirty seconds tick by (Laughs) it feels
longer.

CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL So

CLARK Oh no I

TWITCHELL I mean

CLARK understand that.

TWITCHELL Three four minutes I guess.

CLARK Okay what happens next?

TWITCHELL Well once we’ve concluded the conversation decide what we’re gonna
do then uh I start to pull out and give him a couple of seconds to follow
me.

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CLARK No no no no no. Go back, you’re on the phone.

TWITCHELL Oh okay.

CLARK You’re on the phone

TWITCHELL On the phone.

CLARK tell me what happens from there.

TWITCHELL Well uh I’m on the phone and I’m talking to R.P. and he uh is just
informing me about what’s happening with the people that he’s talking
to he’s got uh guys out of his rolodex that wants to to talk to about
investing in the first round of the financing for our film. Um I tell him
great send me an email with the uh information so I can send them an
email with my treatment business proposal the basic stuff that they’re
gonna wanna be able to take a look at in order to be involved in the
project. Uh and then that conversation concludes. Uh hang up the
phone and that’s when the tap on the window.

CLARK Okay which window.

TWITCHELL It was um would be my front passenger side window.

CLARK Okay and what what do you see tell me everything that’s goin’ on, take
your mind back to sitting in that car now.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK And tell me everything you notice goin’ on around you what you see.

TWITCHELL Okay. Um there’s some traffic parked in the strip mall and by the Mary
Brown’s.

CLARK Mm hm.

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TWITCHELL Uh the guy who was tapping on the window is leaning forward uh looking
in with a bit of a smile on his face. Uh I’m sorta tryin’ ta access him see
what’s goin’ on with that uh don’t wanna get carjacked or anything so
(Laughs) there’s that (Stammers) element to it. Um other things I don’t
really like I didn’t (Stammers) what do you

CLARK Well was your window up? Down?

TWITCHELL It was up at the time all of them were up.

CLARK Okay and what happens next?

TWITCHELL Next I roll down the window. I don’t actually have like power windows
so I reach over ta unroll it.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL And uh just kinda do like the head not thing ta you know what’s up. And
uh from that point that’s when he explains his situation.

CLARK Okay tell me what he said.

TWITCHELL Okay. He says how you doin’. I was wondering if perchance you uh
would be interested in buying a car. And uh I said well what do you
mean and uh so then he goes well basically I’ve got this car that I need
to sell. I’ve hooked up with this really rich woman who wants to take
care of me (Laughs) and you know I’m not sure if I’m being fed a story
here or what but he’s you know it goes on and says that uh she’s gonna
end up buying me a brand-new car when we come back from a vacation
that we’re gonna take together. And uh so at that point I’m thinkin’
okay well lucky bastard (Laughs) so you know he goes um I just wanna
get rid of it so I can take off and I don’t really care how much I get for
it. How much do you have on you? I said forty bucks, cuz I knew I had a
little bit of cash in my pocket and um I’m kinda laughing at that whole

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concept just like you know I’m not expecting him to take it but uh he
says okay sure sounds good. You know how do you wanna do this, do you
want where do you wanna drop it off and uh I tell him well I’ve gotta
place just right over here. It’s a garage that I use. Uh if you wanna
follow me in there you can just park it in there and uh he goes okay fair
enough so I’ll just follow you then. I go okay. He stands up goes back
over to his car I notice that it’s a small red import. Uh wasn’t really
clear on the other details of it at that time from that distance but uh
didn’t really think (Stammers) anything of that. Started the car uh
pulled forward slowly so that he’d have a chance ta pull in behind me
and follow me to where I was going. Continued down Fortieth Ave.
Would keep uh keep going until the block runs out, uh I forget exactly
what street that is but you turn I guess at that point you turn north and
then as soon as the alley is there turn right again. To go east. Come up
that alley uh and then as soon as I get to the driveway of the garage, I
take the longer way and park in front of the manual door that’s closer to
where that couch is sitting. And uh so then he gets the idea of what
we’re doing, he pulls into the other side. At that point I open my door,
get outta my car. Walk over, he’s got the window rolled down from his
side. And uh I explain to him I’m gonna go in open the door and then
you can just drive the car in so he goes okay. I go through the gate,
come around to the pedestrian door. Um my padlock still on there so I
open it. Open the door. Walk inside push the button to open the
powered garage door. As soon as it’s open he completes it by driving
the car inside. Stops the vehicle, turns it off. He gets out from the
driver’s side and uh so then I’m reaching for my wallet. Pull it out. Get
the cash out. Hand it over to him. He say’s you know you know just so
you don’t think I’m a scam artist or anything I’m gonna show you some
documentation and you know this is my insurance and registration and
you know (Stammers) like I said in the report I didn’t like you know go
over it with a fine tooth comb I (Stammers) thought if he’s gonna be

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 showing me insurance and registration it’s probably gonna be legitimate
um he uh had introduced himself uh early as uh as Martin that was the
thing that I did glean a little bit off of what he had on him was the first
name. So saw that part I thought okay. So I mean I didn’t ask for him to
(Stammers) give it to me cuz that’s kinda like you know you don’t know
me from anything and you’re just gonna hand over your stuff so I didn’t
expect that from him. Um he put it back in his pocket. And uh said you
know okay so I guess we’re we’re done and I go oh okay. (Laughs) I’m
like well you know I mean are you the original owner? Um he goes yeah I
bought it from the dealership initially three years ago and uh you know
I’m the only owner that’s had the car at all and I’m like okay. That’s
good any major accidents and he’s like no no. Anyways I gotta run so he
you know did that um he went back out the garage door that he came in
the door was open this whole time. Uh and then went walking down the
alley and he uh continuing on the east direction back to where the uh
Mary Brown’s was.

CLARK Okay. You mentioned when he was back at your car there that he stood
up, what do you mean by he stood up?

TWITCHELL Well he was leaned over right for the talking to me part. And then

CLARK Like just (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL stood up

CLARK window then he didn’t get in the car your car

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK at all anytime? Okay. Describe this guy to me.

TWITCHELL Uh he’s a little bit taller than me. He’s about six two. Cuz I’m six, six
one depending on the time of day. Um so… had just a little bit of height

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 over me. He had uh black hair. Uh he’s a Caucasian guy. Uh… he was
wearing a green windbreaker with white stripes down uh the side. I just
remember the stripes because I have hoody with stripes and it kinda
stood out. Uh and then (Stammers) just jeans, black shoes. The only uh
distinguishing thing that he had cuz he didn’t have any facial hair was
the uh tattoo. On his neck. On his right side.

CLARK What was that tattoo of?

TWITCHELL Uh the best way I could describe it is to call it a a Celtic Knot.

CLARK What’s that?

TWITCHELL Uh (Makes noise with mouth) it’s like a circle of innerwoven thatch work
I guess you could say. I don’t know how to describe that it’s kinda yeah
just a lot of overlapping pieces that make it look like it’s uh an intricate
knot working design into a circle. That has a distinctively uh Celtic look
to it. So it’s something you might see on the front of an Irish church or
something I don’t know.

CLARK How big is this tattoo?

TWITCHELL Uh I guess about three inches in diameter.

CLARK Like show me where it would be on your neck.

TWITCHELL Uh about here.

CLARK Right there so quite visible over the (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK How longs his hair?

TWITCHELL Uh medium length probably right about here.

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CLARK Covering the ears or not?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK About the same as yours?

TWITCHELL Uh a little longer.

CLARK Okay. Touching the shoulder or not?

TWITCHELL (Stammers) tou- what?

CLARK Was the back of

TWITCHELL Ha.

CLARK the hair touching the shoulders?

TWITCHELL Oh was the hair touching the shoulder uh no not quite.

CLARK Okay. What style was it in did you notice?

TWITCHELL Uh it was just hanging down kind of slicked back.

CLARK How old?

TWITCHELL Late twenties early thirties.

CLARK Wearin’ a hat or anything?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Glasses?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Seem like he was on drugs, drinking anything like that?

TWITCHELL Didn’t get that impression.

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CLARK Okay. When he approaches you at your car, where is his car parked?

TWITCHELL Uh it was parked… like a kitty-corner is that how you describe it. So
from where I was parked it was like to the forward and to the side. Uh
in that strip mall area.

CLARK Okay is it by a certain store in that strip mall or where?

TWITCHELL Uh

CLARK Like I don’t know what’s in that strip mall so

TWITCHELL Yeah I don’t

CLARK you have to explain that to me.

TWITCHELL I don’t really go in there a lot either. It’s uh… the first like three or four
stalls that are on the inside next to the driveway there that

CLARK Coming off of Fortieth Avenue?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Next to which driveway then?

TWITCHELL Uh well when you’re comin’ down Fiftieth Street and this is Fortieth
Ave. like right there.

CLARK Like could you draw it on a on a piece of paper there?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Okay there’s a pen there. If you could just draw it out for me that will
give me a better idea of… just kinda draw the intersection there and
that strip mall and then where he would’ve been parked.

TWITCHELL Okay. (Short pause) So. This is Fiftieth Street this is Fortieth Ave.

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CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL then I would’ve been like here. And he would’ve been here.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Like the car was there.

CLARK Is it so is there is this part of the strip mall like there’s buildings right
here?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay. What do you know what he’s parked in front of? Which one?

TWITCHELL I don’t remember.

CLARK What uh business or whatever. Okay. And where are you parked? Draw
your car in there.

TWITCHELL On on the street. Right here.

CLARK Like where?

TWITCHELL Right before this driveway here.

CLARK So you’re right where those marks are?

TWITCHELL Yeah. Right here.

CLARK Okay. Alright. Gives me a better idea okay. So when you when where
where do you first see this guy?

TWITCHELL Uh well I wasn’t paying attention I was on my phone so the first I saw
him was probably like just a a couple of steps like up here. Just as he’s
coming toward the window.

CLARK Okay. Is he alone?

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TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK No one else around. Okay you go back now where uh he follows you
parks the car in the garage oh one thing I wanted to ask you when did
you put the uh (Makes noise with mouth) oh your other lock on the
garage? When when did you put that on?

TWITCHELL Oh the padlock?

CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL (Sighs) uh that was (Stammers) when (Unintelligible) was. I think it was
shortly before we actually shoot the film there. Cuz I asked Mike to pick
it up for me. Uh when he was coming in with other materials so… it
would’ve been some time in the week prior to the shoot.

CLARK Oh so you’re talkin’ way back in September then?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay. And what type was it a combination lock?

TWITCHELL Yeah it was a yeah just a combination padlock.

CLARK And so where’s that lock now?

TWITCHELL I don’t know.

CLARK Okay what was the combination to that lock?

TWITCHELL Uh thirty, eight, thirty.

CLARK Who knew the combo?

TWITCHELL Uh me, Mike and Jay.

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CLARK Okay. And where did you buy that lock and uh the latch thing to put on
there?

TWITCHELL Uh the latch thing I picked up from Home Depot. The lock itself was uh
something I asked Mike to pick up uh with other materials for building so
I don’t know where he got it originally. (Yawns)

CLARK Now the lock that’s on there. When you went back when the police
were there.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK What is that a combo lock too?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Or a key lock?

TWITCHELL No it’s a combo as well.

CLARK Combo. What was it the same brand name or?

TWITCHELL Uh I don’t think so. Mine I don’t remember what the brand specifically
was of mine, it’s just that the look and the style was different. Uh my
original one was silver on the outside with black plastic dial in the
center.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL And this one that was uh on there when we went with the police was
just all pure medal ever where. (Yawns)

CLARK Okay you’re in the garage. Uh a guys in there uh how does the
transaction go? In regards to buying the car. What do you do like?

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TWITCHELL Well at that point we’d already discussed terms basically you know how
much money it was gonna be so I uh gave him the cash out of my wallet
uh then he showed me the documentation trying to reassure me and uh
and that was that was it first as far as what the transaction was.

CLARK Do you not think that kinda strange? I mean I have to ask this, you’re
payin’ forty dollars for a car how much did you think the car was worth?

TWITCHELL Uh (Makes noise with mouth) I thought it was worth somewhere between
three and four thousand.

CLARK But you’re payin’ forty dollars for.

TWITCHELL Yeah so I mean yeah I wasn’t sure what to make of it (Stammers) didn’t
know if the guy was crazy or you know what the deal was. Um he
seemed to be pretty genuine about his story in terms of what he was
saying. So uh I mean (Stammers) (Unintelligible) take him at his word or
you know whatever. Um but I didn’t like I said I didn’t pull a whole lot
of stock in it I didn’t get my hopes up about it or anything I just figured
you know what well I’ll check into it. Um and so planned to of course
check in with AMA see what was going on, see if there was any liens on it
or if it had been report stolen or if any of that stuff was the case then I
would just you know report it right away and get rid of it.

CLARK Did you think it might be stolen?

TWITCHELL I wasn’t sure. It didn’t seem that way. It didn’t look like the car had
been damaged in anyway. Uh the guy seemed to be put together pretty
well in terms of the way he was presenting so--

CLARK But you guys didn’t do a bill of sale up?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Didn’t you think that kinda strange?

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TWITCHELL Uh actually I didn’t find out until after the fact that was a normal thing I
never actually purchased or sold a used car before so.

CLARK What you bought all your cars new or what?

TWITCHELL Yeah or through a dealership.

CLARK You still get a bill of sale at a dealership.

TWITCHELL Well yeah (Laughs).

CLARK But

TWITCHELL That’s true.

CLARK I mean you get a bill of sale when you buy a house, you get a bill of sale
come on you’re not a young sixteen year old kid here. I

TWITCHELL Right.

CLARK mean that seems a little strange to me.

TWITCHELL I understand.

CLARK I’m being honest with you. Right?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK You don’t get a bill of sale you’re buying a car for forty bucks that’s
work several thousand. You know

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK you don’t ask a lot of questions. It’s kind of

TWITCHELL Well

CLARK willful blindness.

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TWITCHELL I guess.

CLARK You know what that is?

TWITCHELL It’s just yeah I know optimism. Trying to hope for the best I guess.

CLARK Mean… you don’t get a bill of sale how were you planning to register
that thing?

TWITCHELL Well I was under the impression that you could go to the AMA and get it
registered if you had the VIN number and it all checked out.

CLARK So after he leaves, how long is he in the garage for about?

TWITCHELL Uh… not too long, I’d say maybe again three four minutes.

CLARK If you saw a picture of this guy again would you be able to identify him?

TWITCHELL I believe so yeah.

CLARK Okay. Unfortunately in these things we just can’t throw you a single
picture so we may have to put together a photo lineup.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK A whole bunch of people cuz it’s not if something turns out to be
suspicious with this whole file if this guy does in fact turn out to be
missing or foul play and we have to make sure we do a put all our eggs in
a row do everything thing properly here.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK So the only picture we have is a single picture today so I can’t show you
that tonight.

TWITCHELL Okay.

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CLARK So what I may do is uh so once we get some more pictures our Ident guys
are in during the week. We’ll get them to put together a photo lineup
and we’ll probably

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK get you to take a look at one

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK of them okay.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK And see if we can identify this guy. I mean this this tattoo should stick
out like a sore thumb.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK So.

TWITCHELL I would think so.

CLARK That’s uh one one way that will hopefully can help uh identify him. So
after he’s gone what do you do then next?

TWITCHELL Uh I go out the open garage door to get to my car. Take out the
cleaning supplies. Bring them into the garage. Set them on the table
the brown table that’s like a wood thing. And uh then I (Sighs) close the
big garage door. Push the button by doing that it closes and then uh I
leave out the pedestrian door. Put the padlock back on. Go around side
the garage. Get back into my car. And uh… and then it just uh… it
occurs to me that… I don’t really wanna… leave it there. And I’m not
sure if it’s like you know just a like a feeling about security or what I
just feel a little bit more comfortable about not having it in the garage.
So uh… I mean I realize that the car was a manual transmission when I

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 was looking at it and making sure that it didn’t have like any drugs in the
trunk or anything like that. Um… so I call my buddy… and I asked him uh
do do you know how to drive a manual transmission car? And uh he goes
yeah why. And I said well you know… some weirdest thing just happened
I’m not gonna get my hopes up about it or anything like that but uh
basically this is what went down I explained to Joss you know this guy hit
me up after I got some gas that he wanted ta sell me this car and so I I
told him that story and I said you know what is do you think it’ll be okay
if we just park it at your house. And in in the mean time and then I can
check in with the AMA and figure out what’s going on with it. And he
goes uh yeah I’m sure that’ll be okay. So um I’m like alright well well
are you right now he’s like I’m getting off work. Like okay well actually
if if that’s the case do you wanna just meet me at the garage and uh you
know we can we can just take it from here. And he goes yeah okay
that’s fine. So… at that point get out of the car. Back into the garage.
Wait for him.

CLARK How long does it take him to get there?

TWITCHELL Uh it takes him… ten fifteen minutes. Cuz he was already on his way.

CLARK Okay and then what happens when he gets there?

TWITCHELL Uh he gets there he looks at the car checks it out. Uh opens the door he
looked at the uh the numbers on the inside of the door and stuff like
that and was just kind of assessing the situation figuring it out and uh…
was talking about the vehicle. He knew a little bit more about it than I
did cuz I wasn’t familiar with imports as much and he was just saying
well this is like you know (Stammers) Joss is a big guy he’s like six four I
think. And uh he’s like this is like one of the only uh import (Laughs)
hatchbacks that I can actually fit in. Um he’s like so I mean if if this
does end up checking out and it’s not end up being like a stolen car or
anything like that then you know I’d be interested in looking at getting it

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 from you. Um you know and so he’s making joke offers and stuff like
that and uh… then uh… we just said okay well let’s let’s move it. So he
gets in starts it. Backs it out of the garage. I close the big door. Go
back to my car. We drive back to his house where he uh stores the
vehicle.

CLARK Okay how do you know Joss like how do you, how are you guys (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL I meet him

CLARK (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL (Sighs) over three years ago when I was first uh developing the Star Wars
Project that I’m working on and uh he’s been really instrumental in
helping that thing come to fruition and making that happen. He’s
designed my website for me. Um… just known him a long time he’s a
really good friend, hang out with him a lot.

CLARK So he drives it over to his house?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Oh and does he live close by or what?

TWITCHELL Yeah. He lives uh just like a couple of blocks away it’s (Stammers) it’s
like Fifty-three twenty-five Thirty-fifth Ave.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL So yeah.

CLARK And what do you guys

TWITCHELL Like five blocks.

CLARK do with the car there?

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TWITCHELL Uh at first he parks it on the street. And the uh… he contacts his dad
and his dad suggests that he just move it up on ta the the driveway. Cuz
it’s safer and more legal apparently to do that so he uh goes ahead and
moves it to the driveway area.

CLARK What happened with the license plates on that car?

TWITCHELL Uh I took off the plate he said something about how you need the plate
in order to register it. So I went okay well I’ll keep that in mind. Uh so
he unscrewed it, gave it to me. I put it uh into my duffel bag and uh…
and then just left it in my car for the most part and then the thing is I’m
always moving that bag in and out of the vehicle and moving stuff
around and that kind of thing.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL So…

CLARK Where’s the plate now?

TWITCHELL I believe it’s still in the bag.

CLARK Where’s the bag?

TWITCHELL Uh in my car.

CLARK Okay so we’ll get that before you go.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK So what about the keys to the car? Who kept those? Where are they?

TWITCHELL I did. I’ve got’em. They’re also in my vehicle.

CLARK In this vehicle here?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

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CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Or actually I think I might have them on me. Mm… Okay these are my
keys. (Sighs) yeah I guess they’re in the car.

CLARK In the car?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK So the uh… when you just goin’ back you checkin’ the documents there
the insurance and registration you look at those documents?

TWITCHELL Yeah uh I mean I kind of--

CLARK And you have those documents or where are they?

TWITCHELL No they he kept ‘em. I (Stammers) I got the feeling like if I’m taking his
insurance and registration documents that that’s kind of like a not
something I should be doing.

CLARK But you obviously looked at the name on there.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK What was the name on there?

TWITCHELL Uh I saw the first name. Mark. I didn’t really remember the last name.
I think it started with a K but I’m not sure.

CLARK Was that on the registration and insurance

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK or just-- That’s good uh good job going through that. Got me a few
other little things out of there but. May or may not help. Um one other
way that we can really glean more information from our witnesses is to

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 get you just to like I just wanna back you up to the point of the car is at
Joss’ house. And to take you backwards through this your story.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK What that does is it you’re gonna surprise yourself and you’re gonna
remember other little things that you probably just slipped your mind
but you told me the the first time.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK So I just want you to go take me back from Joss’ house and take me back
through to all the way to the the gas can we’ll say. Walk me through
that backwards and tell me and I may write a few things down that you
just remember that you you know you just sometimes it twigs a memory
you know. And

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK uh it really helps in in… and it can help me and and you remember in
certain specific details that maybe just slipped your mind the first time.

TWITCHELL Backwards.

CLARK Why don’t you start at

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Joss’ house and just kinda take me backwards from that.

TWITCHELL Hm. Okay. So (Sighs) what do you mean like just to say it like you know
we’re at this point and then before that and then before that or?

CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL Okay.

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CLARK Yeah exactly.

TWITCHELL Hm. Uh okay. Well I’m at Joss’ house and the car is parked there. Uh…
we’ve already gone through it and checked it out um… can’t think if
there’s anything else. Before that uh it was parked on the street.
Before that we had driven it there from the garage. Before that we
were in the garage. He was looking at the vehicle. Before that he had
just arrived (Laughs) uh… okay so… sorry I’m just tired um… before that I
was in the garage waiting for him. Before that I was in my car on the
phone to him. Before that… I was back inside the garage. Uh… having
just put the supplies down. Before that the guy who had sold the car to
me… was in the garage and we were finishing up our conversation…
before he left. And before that (Sighs) uh… sorry I’m just… I don’t
know.

CLARK Take your time.

TWITCHELL I’m okay. (Laughs) If it makes sense uh… before that I was looking at the
documentation that he was showing me. And before that… was when I
passed him the money. Before that he was in the car having just pulled
it in. Before that he was outside just before I had the door open. Uh…
before that I was around the other side of the garage having told him
where I was going to go I was gonna go in the garage and open the door
for him. (Sighs) And before that we were driving from point A to point
B. He was following me to the driveway. Before that I was parked on
the side of the street just before I took off to have him follow me.
Before that he was standing at the vehicle. My vehicle. Finishing up the
conversation.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL Before that he was leaned over opening up the conversation. Before
that was the window tap. Before that… was the end of my phone call.

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 Before that was prior to me pulling over so I was still in motion. Before
that I was at the gas station. Like how much further back do you want
me to go?

CLARK That’s good. Just up

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK to there. Uh that’s good then just a couple things I have written down
to ask you. Um… you had mentioned… well you had a list of things to do
that day on the fifteenth do you still have that list?

TWITCHELL No I would’ve thrown it out by now.

CLARK Okay. You had mentioned too that you had uh stopped at a coffee shop
do you know which one that was?

TWITCHELL Uh it was likely a Tim Horton’s.

CLARK You don’t know where it is or

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK which one? You’d also stated you shipped an item on eBay, that day.
What did you ship?

TWITCHELL Uh… if it was that day, it was a uh leather codpiece it’s a uh part of a
Darth Vader costume.

CLARK The the mask you mean?

TWITCHELL No the thing that goes under his belt.

CLARK Oh what’s it called?

TWITCHELL It’s a codpiece.

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CLARK Cod?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK As in the fish cod?

TWITCHELL Uh no as in like cover your crotch cod (Laughs).

CLARK Well I know that but is that how you spell it?

TWITCHELL (Laughs) yeah.

CLARK Do you sell a lot of stuff on eBay?

TWITCHELL Uh not a ton.

CLARK Oh.

TWITCHELL Once in a while. I’ve got some props left over from the movie that I’m
trying to unload cuz they’re taking up space.

CLARK Okay. When you um like is this your whole income the movie thing?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Like that’s what kind of money are you makin’ at that?

TWITCHELL Oh it’s pretty decent. I’m uh (Stammers) well I’m kinda taking my own
salary out of uh my investor money. Which is like I sell equity in the film
in order to get that.

CLARK Right.

TWITCHELL So I’m trying to keep it uh to a minimum until the actual full budget
comes through and then its producer fees at that point. So right now
it’s about four to five thousand a month. And uh and then after the

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 producer fees come through it’ll be ten percent of the total budget of
the film which is three hundred and fifty thousand.

CLARK And does your wife work or anything?

TWITCHELL Uh she’s on Mat Leave right now. She works for the Workers
Compensation Board, she’s been on Mat Leave since January. Well
actually even a couple of months before that I think she started taking it
early. And she comes off of it uh December January again. It’s a one
year.

CLARK What’s your wife’s name?

TWITCHELL Jess. Jess.

CLARK Jess?

TWITCHELL J.E.S.S.

CLARK What about your your child what’s the child’s name?

TWITCHELL Chloe.

CLARK Chloe?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK That’s different.

TWITCHELL Hm.

CLARK Little girl then?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK First one?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

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CLARK Mm. Man that’s tiring.

TWITCHELL (Laughs)

CLARK That’s… I got three boys I (Laughs).

TWITCHELL Oh. We got super lucky

CLARK (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL cuz she’s been sleeping through the night since her third week.

CLARK Oh yeah you’re lucky.

TWITCHELL So (Laughs) yeah.

CLARK You gotta like that. I’ll just check here are there any other questions.
Oh your car. When you’re mention uh uh it was broken into.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Remember back I think it was October eighth.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK You mentioned that you were going to uh with Josh was it Josh?

TWITCHELL Joss.

CLARK Joss

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK to uh a concert or you were going to watch some show or something?

TWITCHELL Yeah it was a an evening with Kevin Smith.

CLARK Where was that at?

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TWITCHELL So that was at the Winspear Centre.

CLARK Oh okay. And who’s Kevin I don’t know who Kevin Smith is.

TWITCHELL Uh Kevin Smith’s a movie director he did like (Unintelligible) and Mall
Rats and a bunch of other cult classics.

CLARK Oh I see.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK And what does he do just talk about ‘em is that?

TWITCHELL Uh well it’s basically a Q and A, people line up uh at a microphone and

uh ask him questions. And he answers them at length with a lot of uh
colorful story telling.

CLARK Okay. How how did your car get broken into?

TWITCHELL (Yawns) uh well I went to park at the Southgate Mall to meet Joss and
then he (Stammers) came and picked me up and we went in his car cuz
we figured one cars a lot easier to park downtown. Uh the show went
from about eight till eleven-thirty they kick him off at eleven-thirty and
then took us another half hour to get back so. We were back in the
parking lot at uh at midnight. (Makes noise with mouth) and

CLARK I mean how did how did they get into the car? How did they get into
your car?

TWITCHELL Oh.

CLARK How did they actually break into it?

TWITCHELL Uh I’m not sure. Uh when I when I got to the vehicle it was uh already
unlocked so I mean if I had to guess I would say going in through the
window. Like that thing where you try to you know

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CLARK The metal

TWITCHELL put something

CLARK shim?

TWITCHELL yeah.

CLARK Yeah.

TWITCHELL The thing. So

CLARK But there was no broken window or you didn’t leave any windows down?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Okay. And um where were you parked in on the mall? In the mall. Like
where what (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL That was like uh the southern most parking lot outside the Bay.

CLARK Like far away from the Bay or?

TWITCHELL Uh it’s three quarters of the way through the parking lot away.

CLARK And that’s the red Grand Am?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK And this uh oil drum. You mentioned you bought. Who’d you buy that
from?

TWITCHELL Uh let see if I can remember the manufacturer. Cuz they… uh I can’t
remember the name of the site.

CLARK They delivered though?

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TWITCHELL Yeah. Well they it wasn’t them personally that delivered it. They hired
a courier company to deliver it.

CLARK Okay. Do you know who it was delivered by?

TWITCHELL The only name that I can think of comes to mind is Durrell (Phonetic).

CLARK What’d that cost you?

TWITCHELL Uh total was like sixty bucks.

CLARK And when was that bought? Or delivered? Bought and delivered?

TWITCHELL Uh (Sighs). Ss- think it was sometime in the first week of October. I was
trying to uh get it in time for the shoot cuz I knew it would be useful a
lot more useful as a garbage can during the shoot than after but. They
messed up the delivery like three times. They kept saying they were
gonna be when they weren’t showing up and stuff like that so I finally
just said okay well give me a call when you guys uh are get like an hour
away from going and then I’ll meet ‘cha there and I don’t remember
what day it was that I actually met them and took delivery.

CLARK Oh but it was after the shoot.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay. The um oh (Stammers) what’s your uh email address?

TWITCHELL (Yawns) uh express with no E on the front. Dot director. At Gmail dot
com.

CLARK Do you have any other ones? Do you have a home or (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL I gotta personal one that’s collecting a whole hell of a lot of spam that
I’m trying not to use as much. That ones uh K.I.T.F.I.S.T.O. zero zero
seven. At Gmail dot com.

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CLARK Kitfisto?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK What’s that stand for?

TWITCHELL Uh it’s a name of a character from Attack of the Clones.

CLARK From which one?

TWITCHELL From uh Attack of the Clones.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL It’s a green dude smiles a lot.

CLARK (Laughs) Can’t say I saw that one.

TWITCHELL (Laughs)

CLARK Uh when this guy talked about uh you had mentioned he shacked up with
a really rich lady. Did he say anything more about her or about this
woman a name anything like that?

TWITCHELL No he didn’t say a name.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Didn’t uh… I don’t think he specified really how long they’d been
together either. It sounded like it was something that was somewhat
new. But uh he was obviously comfortable with so… maybe not crazy
new I mean if I just had to guess based on the his basic use of words
then I’d say a couple of months.

CLARK Alright let me just go check with my partner here I’ll see if uh if we’ve
covered off everything and uh we’ll get ‘cha outta here.

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TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Alright. Do you need water or anything?

TWITCHELL No I’m alright.

CLARK Okay. (Door opens and closes)

Elapsed time 01:30:47

Elapsed time 01:34:47

TWITCHELL Hey. So uh what? Well (Laughs) I uh tried to uh answer some more of

their questions and fill them in and everything like that and now like it
turns that the the car is in fact uh belonging to this missing guy and that
it’s a huge deal so that’s what this whole things about. I’m going
through this whole uh additional Q and A with a detective and stuff like
that. And I just got your messages two seconds ago. Uh the last time
that I talked to him he just left the room he said that uh he’s just gonna
confer with his partner and then I’ll be free to go. What? Okay. Uh
nope just more detailed. Eh not really. Yeah. I’m worried you know
it’s just uh… (Sighs) it’s a big mess and I just… No. My problem is that
I’m so tired and it’s so hard to remember things it’s so hard to
remember like these minute specific details about these days that I just
didn’t ever bother to think about or remember because who the hell
does that you know. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Alright. Yup. Bye.

Elapsed time 01:36:54

Elapsed time 02:06:54

CLARK (Door opens) Sorry Mark just need to clear up a couple things here.

TWITCHELL ‘Kay. (Door closes)

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CLARK We’re gonna be sending uh our uh Ident guys the crime scene guys over
to the garage there just to go through it. Just standard stuff but where
did you put the supplies when you dropped them off? Describe that to
me

TWITCHELL All I (Stammers)

CLARK in the garage.

TWITCHELL there’s a brown wooden table by the pedestrian door.

CLARK Mm hm. And they all went on this table or what?

TWITCHELL Mm hm. Yeah.

CLARK And what what describe to me what you put there.

TWITCHELL There was a pack of uh paper towels.

CLARK And how are they packaged? Like what what do you mean by paper
towels?

TWITCHELL Like a six pack.

CLARK Oh the round ones the

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK ones… okay. ‘Kay. What else?

TWITCHELL (Stammers) bottle of standard stain remover cleaner. Grey.

CLARK Mm hm.

TWITCHELL Uh’s a pack of gloves.

CLARK Sorry the stain remover was in a bottle like a glass bottle plastic bottle

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TWITCHELL No is a plastic grey bottle thing.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL When we went there it looked like the lid was on it so I wasn’t sure if it
had been used or not but--

CLARK Okay and sorry plastic gloves?

TWITCHELL Uh yeah one pair (Sighs) of regular you know normal… grey plastic
gloves.

CLARK Oh just in one, one pair in one package?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Okay. Mm hm. Anything else?

TWITCHELL Um… had a roll of uh plastic sheeting. We use it for backdrops to catch
all the corn syrup so it doesn’t get everywhere.

CLARK Okay. Anything else?

TWITCHELL Uh don’t think so can’t remember (Overtalk)

CLARK Well you’d mentioned uh garbage bags.

TWITCHELL Yeah I had garbage bags in there previously.

CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL Uh we used some of ‘em to block out the windows so that the light
wouldn’t get inside when we didn’t want it to. Um and uh I used a
couple of ‘em for the garbage purposes but uh… it seemed like there was
a lot more gone when we checked. When we went in there with the
police it seemed like all but like half of one of the two rolls that were in
the box was missing.

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CLARK Okay.

TWITCHELL And so I know I didn’t use that many good Lord.

CLARK Alright. Um you mentioned that was on the fifteenth all the supplies
were dropped off.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Did you use any of the supplies yourself?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Alright. Go back the day before, the fourteenth.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Tuesday. Election day.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK Do you remember votin’?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Did you vote?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Okay can you tell me uh just briefly where you were on election day uh--

TWITCHELL Election day.

CLARK Last Tuesday.

TWITCHELL I don’t remember. I remember in the evening being at home but…

(Sighs).

CLARK What time you at home?

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TWITCHELL Tuesday… uh I don’t know I can’t think. Uh I don’t remember.

CLARK Were you home all evening on election night or what? Watch the results
on the news perhaps?

TWITCHELL Yeah I think so. I think it was uh no I have a tough time (Stammers) cuz
I’m tired I can’t think of it.

CLARK Well it’s the night before you bought the vehicle.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK It’s only five days ago.

TWITCHELL Tuesday. It was after holiday Monday. Yeah I don’t know.

CLARK Okay. So Mark what do you think happened to this John Alt- ALTINGER
guy?

TWITCHELL I have no idea.

CLARK Do you think somebody has done something to harm him?

TWITCHELL I I don’t know.

CLARK Do you think he’s really missing?

TWITCHELL Uh it sounds like it. It sounds like people are taking it seriously.

CLARK How do you think the results of this investigation are gonna come out on
you?

TWITCHELL Well positively I would think. I’ve been trying to tell you guys
everything that I know.

CLARK Okay. What do you think should happen to the person if there’s been
harm done to John ALTINGER?

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TWITCHELL (Sighs) uh I don’t know I mean I guess it depends on what we’re talkin’
about.

CLARK Well what if we find out there’s been foul play and he’s been murdered?
What do you think should happen to the person?

TWITCHELL They should go to jail.

CLARK Do you think if there’s been foul play to John that the person who did
this to him deserves a second chance under any circumstances?

TWITCHELL Uh I would say no.

CLARK Mark did you have any involvement in the disappearance of John?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK None whatsoever?

TWITCHELL No.

CLARK Absolutely positive on that?

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Okay. They’re just uh talkin’ to Josh and I just uh one of the other guys
had a couple of questions there that uh he’s just clearing up with him
there. And I’ll just see what’s happenin’ with that and I’ll come in and
talk to you we’ll finish this

TWITCHELL Uh

CLARK up. Okay.

TWITCHELL Okay. Well what’s goin’ on do you know or?

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CLARK Yeah that’s what I’m gonna find out right now. (Door opens) I’ll be right
back.

TWITCHELL (Sighs) (Door closes)

Elapsed time 02:13:54

Elapsed time 02:35:19

CLARK (Door opens) Mark you remember I mentioned to you earlier (Door
closes) about uh contacting a lawyer

TWITCHELL Uh huh.

CLARK that still holds true okay just so you’re aware.

TWITCHELL Okay.

CLARK If at any time we’re talkin’ you wanna contact a lawyer you can do so at
any time I’ll take you to a phone. There’s something else I wanna tell
you Mark and that’s that there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that
you’re involved in the disappearance of John ALTINGER. No doubt in my
mind at all Mark.

TWITCHELL Uh why?

CLARK As I said Mark there’s no doubt in my mind that you’re involved

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK In this disappearance. I just wanna get to the bottom of this. Because
this is not gonna go away. It’s not gonna leave you Mark.

TWITCHELL I don’t understand.

CLARK I’m gonna explain some of the reasons to you. But you do understand
cuz you know what I’m talkin’ about. You’re involved in this and

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 unfortunately something got carried away. Something got carried away
with this guy. I mean talkin’ to you here tonight you seem like a decent
guy. And I think that somethin’ happened that night that maybe you
just didn’t have total control of. And I’m here to get to the bottom of
it. Because it’s not gonna go away. This is gonna stay with you and we
need to clear this up here and now we need to clear this up tonight.
You need to tell me the truth about what’s goin’ on. What happened.
With this fellah. I mean if this happened because of of the movie thing…
something that went too far.

TWITCHELL No. I have no idea what the hell’s going on.

CLARK You do have an idea. You have a very good idea Mark about what’s goin’
on. You know exactly what happened there that night.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK I mean you haven’t told us the truth. You haven’t told us anything close
to the truth. You do understand we’ve talked to Joss. We’ve got his
side of the story. All I’m lookin’ for is your side of the story. But the
truth. Not what you’ve been tellin’ me. Cuz that what you’ve been
telling me hasn’t been the truth. Has it Mark?

TWITCHELL This can’t be I don’t (Sighs)… (Sighs).

CLARK What do you mean it can’t be?

TWITCHELL I just don’t understand.

CLARK Well what don’t you understand? We have a fellah who’s missing. We
know he’s been to your garage. We’ve talked to all the neighbors now.
You know… the neighbors saw you changing the lock. About a week,
week and a half ago. Neighbors watch. They see all these things. Little
things that you don’t realize. Okay. We know the lock was changed.

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 Long before the fifteenth. Yet when you get there on the fifteenth, you
tell me well that’s your lock on there on the fifteenth. It’s not till you
go back with the policeman… last night that you notice or you say. So
that’s a lie, that’s a lie you told me. When you gave your version of
events to Detective TABLER last night, your version of events was
different than what you told me today. What you wrote down was
different than what you told me in this room. What you told me in this
room when I first came in was different from your final version of
events. You’ve changed your whole story. All kinds of different lies.
Now I know this isn’t an easy thing to live with. Somethin’ went wrong
there. Like I said I don’t think you’re a bad guy you seem like a decent
guy. You gotta wife. You gotta small child. You’re tryin’ to do the
best. I don’t think you know I don’t know but I don’t think you’re doin’
that well financially. I think it’s a tough life what you’re in. You’re
trying to do your best but something went wrong. Maybe you were just
trying to make a better movie, I don’t know. But something went wrong
and you’re involved. And this is not gonna go away Mark. And you know
that you’re not a dumb guy. You know it’s not gonna go away. This is
gonna keep on eatin’ at you and eatin’ at you.

TWITCHELL I just feel like I’m in the fuckin’ twilight zone right now.

CLARK And why do you feel you’re in the twilight zone? We need to get to the
truth about what happened with John ALTINGER. And I know you know
that truth. You are definitely not a dumb man. You know very well that
you don’t buy a car that’s worth over ten thousand dollars from someone
for forty dollars. You know that. You know that you get a bill of sale.
You deal with items on eBay. You sell items all the time. Just like goin’
to the store and buying anything. That part of your story is just it’s just
lie after lie after lie. And it’s time to end those lies Mark. I mean your
your version about the gas. Your first version to to Mike TABLER you’re
leavin’. You’re leavin’ the garage. Goin’ to get gas. Then he

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 approaches you. Now in your version today no you got gas before. But
you’re reason for having gas doesn’t even make sense. You’re buyin’ gas
for a lawn mower you don’t own. You’re buyin’ gas just to keep in your
car. No you’re buyin’ gas to get rid of things. You shake your head but
you know what I’m sayin’ is true. Specifically do you remember talkin’
to the constable last night? Specifically you talked to the constable last
night he specifically asked you three or four times, do you remember
seeing a red car. Any time around your garage anything. No officer I
don’t remember anything about a red car. Yet now

TWITCHELL I don’t remember those questions.

CLARK and you never mention that to Detective TABLER. Not once do you
mention a red car. Or buying a car off an individual you didn’t know for
forty dollars. While he’s asking you about the disappearance of a guy
who’s seen at your garage. And it’s obvious why you didn’t mention it,
because you had something to do with his disappearance. I mean
there’s no doubt about that Mark. I mean you hh- you have a barrel in
your garage… a barrel you say you buy for garbage. Everyone knows in
the movie industry those are (Stammers) known as burn barrels. We got
that off your own friends. They’re the ones telling us this. Your
coworkers. What happened to John Mark? What’d you do with him?

TWITCHELL (Expels breath loudly) Wrong tree.

CLARK Wrong dream?

TWITCHELL No tree.

CLARK Wrong tree?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK And what do you mean by that?

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TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK What do you mean by that Mark?

TWITCHELL I’m done.

CLARK What do you mean you’re done?

TWITCHELL I’m mean I’m just not talkin’ anymore this is ridiculous.

CLARK Well what is your explanation? You haven’t answered any of the
questions. If you didn’t do anything wrong why wouldn’t you answer
those questions? Do you know why? Mark… both you and I know the
answer. Cuz you’re involved.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK You have the license plates… to his vehicle in your car. You have the
keys to his vehicle in your car. And this guys missing and you have his
car. Like you need to accept the fact here Mark that your life has now
changed. Cuz like I said before this is never ever gonna go away. I
mean I have to wonder what’s goin’ on in your life that get you involved
in something like this. You must either be havin’ tough times at home or
tough times financially or something. So what’s gonna happen when
these neighbors pick your picture out as the guy changin’ the locks on
that garage? After you told me you didn’t know anything about those
locks. What’s gonna happen then Mark? What’s gonna happen with your
wife and child now? What are they gonna do? What happened to John
Mark? Was this your plan or was this somebody else’s? Somebody else
put you up to this? Do you not have any answers Mark? Why not? I’m
telling you that you’re involved in this disappearance and you sit there
and say nothing. Shocks me. You do understand these things don’t go
away like we… this is gonna stay with you the rest of your life. Do you
understand that? Like I look at you I I see you sittin’ here I’ve talked to

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 you for several hours now… and I… I just can’t figure out the why.
(Stammers) what drove you to this is there something goin’ on obviously
there’s something goin’ on behind the scenes that I don’t know about.
Cuz you seem like a decent guy that (Stammers) gonna go have a beer
with. That’s the type of guy you come across as. Yet you’re involved
over your head in this.

TWITCHELL Is anything that you’re saying genuine or is this some sort of tactic?

CLARK You gotta get away from the acting part Mark. And listen to what I’m
sayin’. You have told me nothin’ but lies. An innocent man does not
come in here and tell lies. That’s genuine Mark. Everything I’m tellin’
you in here is genuine. So get outta your film producer mode and the
façade of thinkin’ that everyone’s an actor.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK Cuz this is real life. Alright. Real life. If you were telling me the truth
you would have one story. One story that would flow from beginning to
end. And you could repeat that one hundred times. With no changes in
the story. Yours is so bad. How do you explain the neighbors? The
neighbors see that car there before the fifteenth of October. Why would
that car be at your garage before the fifteenth of October? You
conveniently can’t remember where you were on the fourteenth of
October.

TWITCHELL Nothing convenient about it. It’s just actually fact despite anything
that’s been goin’ on I really cannot…

CLARK You cannot what?

TWITCHELL Remember.

CLARK Remember what?

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TWITCHELL About the fourteenth.

CLARK So you can’t remember about the fourteenth. Why did you lie about the
fifteenth? What is your explanation for providing me basically different
versions of what happened on the fifteenth?

TWITCHELL Am I being charged?

CLARK Not yet.

TWITCHELL Am I free to go?

CLARK Yup.

TWITCHELL Then I will.

CLARK Okay. We’re seizin’ your car. So you won’t be getting it back. We’ll be
getting a search warrant to go through the car. Forensic examination.
Okay. As soon as we’re done interviewing everybody else, you will uh
we’ll be coming back to charge you. It’s just a matter of time. Alright.
Do you have any questions about any of that? Do you wanna clear
anything up now so I don’t have to keep comin’ after you?

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK Any questions about anything Mark?

TWITCHELL Hm.

CLARK You know pretty well everything’s over for you now. You can’t worry
about (Stammers) what your wife and your family’s gonna think. Cuz
this isn’t goin’ away. You have to get past that. Are you that cold a
person Mark that you can live with this the rest of your life? Doesn’t
bother you at all?

TWITCHELL What what does that mean?

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007204
CLARK Well you’re involved in this disappearance of this guy.

TWITCHELL Ll- but (Stammers) live with it what do you mean?

CLARK Well what you did to him. You can live with that? That’s what I mean.
You can live with that what’s happened to him. I mean only you know
what’s happened to him. I’ll find that out eventually. It’s gonna take
me a little time I just got involved in this case today. But it’s so obvious
you’re involved Mark it’s… like you’re not a very good actor. And you’re
in the business.

TWITCHELL I never said I was an actor.

CLARK Producer. You’ve seen actors. You’re not good at it at all. You’re a
very very poor liar. But I mean how do you go home at night… livin’ with
yourself for what you’ve done to this guy. How do you explain that to
your wife? Your child’s not eight months so you don’t have to explain it
to her, she won’t even know what’s goin’ on. Like it’s gonna eat at you.
If you’re a normal person it’s gonna eat at you. If you’re that cold and
callous which I don’t think you are… you don’t strike me as that type of
person. Now if somethin’ went wrong in that garage that day then you
need to tell me that. If somethin’ went wrong that was outta your
control this is your chance to tell it.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK You know this is your chance to say hey… Detective… yeah somethin’
went wrong. Things got outta control. Somethin’ happened there that I
didn’t wanna happen. This is your chance. You know I don’t know much
about this John guy. I’m slowly finding out things. But somethin’ went
wrong when he came over to that garage when you were there. This is
your chance to tell me. I mean if you guys got into an argument over
something I don’t know what. And things got carried away. So be it we

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007205
 can deal with that. But you have to let me know that. You know I don’t
know if he came over there with somebody else or… was gettin’ stupid
or was trying to pull stuff on you. I don’t know. I know this guy’s a bit
of a weirdo. I know he’s into different things that uh the average person
isn’t in to. You know and maybe he tried something I don’t know. I
don’t know exactly what happened. What I do know… is that you’re
involved. And you know that. It’s obvious. It’s obvious by your whole
demeanor. And like I said it’s not goin’ away. It’s just startin’ to build.

TWITCHELL I understand what you’re sayin’.

CLARK Well you understand it but… you don’t have an explanation for it. Why
is it Mark you don’t have an explanation.

TWITCHELL Fear.

CLARK Pardon me? I didn’t hear you. I mean I know it’s tough. You know I I I
don’t much about

TWITCHELL (Stammers) Ss--

CLARK your life but…

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK you know is this something that you tried to avoid and you just couldn’t?

TWITCHELL What do you mean?

CLARK Well I don’t know did he try somethin’ in there? Did he try somethin’
you’re just defending yourself? I don’t know. You were the one that
was there.

TWITCHELL That’s a really weird comment that you made.

CLARK Pardon me?

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TWITCHELL It’s a very weird comment you made.

CLARK Which comment is that?

TWITCHELL A valid… (Sighs)

CLARK Which comment was that Mark? I’m not trying to be (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL (Unintelligible)

CLARK the bad guy here Mark.

TWITCHELL Can’t help but feel like that’s a… tactic I just feel like everything’s is a
tactic for you now.

CLARK Why do you think that? When you know what I’ve told you in this room is
the truth. So how do you how do you say that a tactic

TWITCHELL I I just… I know we’re not sitting in a movie but it’s the cop thing.

CLARK This is real life stuff. You gotta get away from the movies.

TWITCHELL Yeah I know.

CLARK That’s the problem here. All I’m here for is get the truth. That’s my
job. There’s two sides to every story. I know (Stammers) I know why
John went to the garage. I know a little bit about his background and
what he’s in to. Not very pretty.

TWITCHELL What’s that mean?

CLARK Well I’m not gonna go into all that cuz that’s that’s not stuff that you
need to know. But let’s just say he’s got some skeletons in his closet.
And I know that he could’ve done something there to to provoke things.
To cause trouble. And if he did and something happened because of his
provoking or provocation there. Then what I’m telling you is this is your

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007207
 chance to get it out. Somethin’ happened there between the two of
you. Then you need to let me know now. Was it just the two of you in
the garage or did he come with someone else? Mark.

TWITCHELL I think the guy uh (Sighs) oh (Sighs) I need some time. I need to be able
to sleep.

CLARK This isn’t gonna go away while you sleep Mark.

TWITCHELL I know.

CLARK That’s the problem. Something happened there. Both you and I know
it. And time isn’t gonna make it go away. It’s time for you to step up to
the plate. Tell me what happened to John. Tell me where he is. So we
can do the decent thing and… not only for him but for his family. And
for your own wellbeing. You’re not gonna be able to live with yourself
with this for the rest of your life.

TWITCHELL You’d surprised what I can live with.

CLARK It’s gonna eat at you and eat at you. It’s gonna affect your family cuz
it’s affecting you. What’s gonna happen with your daughter? I know
that’s weighin’ on your mind. I know it’s weighin’ on your mind about
your wife. How would you describe your marriage? Is it good?

TWITCHELL Everything is goin’ fantastic.

CLARK Everything (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL I’m gonna check to see if she left me another message. She was worried
yesterday and couldn’t sleep at all and even tonight she had to take a…
Unisol (Phonetic) to try to get to sleep and then when I didn’t come
home she… had started callin’ again.

CLARK Well she’s worried about you.

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TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK But this isn’t gonna end. You know I had a family, I had a relative of
mine, was murdered. Back in Nineteen ninety-seven. Whitehorse,
Yukon. My wife’s sister was murdered. By her husband, family thing.
Not like this.

TWITCHELL Are you serious.

CLARK Serious it was actually made national news. Was a big thing about the
the defense of provocation. Guys name was Ralph KLASSEN. That was
my brother-in-law at the time. And he strangled her, strangled his wife
which is my wife’s sister. In bed. They were separated. Come home
and thought she was fooling around and he was out to lunch. There was
no fooling around goin’ on. None at all. And he strangled her with his
hands. So hard that he actually sprained his two thumbs. And what
happened was he leaves a note in the house saying that he couldn’t live
with himself and he was gonna end his own life. I don’t know if you’ve
ever been Whitehorse but he drove up by I I wasn’t up there myself, my
wife went up for the trial with her sisters but… he uh he drives up on a
hill in his um little Datsun B two ten truck. And his plan was, they found
out this later from talkin’ to him, that’s how we know. But his plan was
to drive head on into one of the iron ore trucks that work at the mines
up there. So he waited and waited he said. This is what he’s tellin’ the
Mounties later. And uh no iron ore truck came along so a propane tanker
was comin’ down the highway. So he drives down the hill, he smashes
head on propane tanker and just before he hits it he ducks. And if you
can believe it he ends up with a broken toe. That was his whole injuries
from this accident. The truck drive ends up breaking his back so bad
that he can’t work anymore. He’s not crippled but he can’t work
anymore. Never ends up working again I guess. And they take my
brother-in-law to hospital and at the hospital he tells the nurse that he

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 did something to his wife. So they uh send the Mounties over there.
And they find her in bed. And then they come back and they end up of
course charging him. Charged him with second degree murder. He got
convicted of manslaughter and his defense was provocation. That he
was provoked into it. That’s kind of my point here is that he’s saying
he’s provoked. That’s his wife. There was no pro- provocation at all it
was a jo- joke defense in my mind. My wife sat through two weeks of
the trial with her sisters up there. Couldn’t believe it absolutely
devastated the family. And he got a whole five years in jail. That’s
what he got. He served I think two and a half total. I never did find out
what happened to him. Out at uh Williamshead Penitentiary in B.C.
Which is on Vancouver Island. Fricken’ golf course on there, they’ve got
a par three golf course. And they’re live in like condos. Systems a joke.

TWITCHELL Wait who lives in condos?

CLARK The prisoners at Williamshead Penitentiary they live in like condo

complexes. Not even cells.

TWITCHELL So…

CLARK But the point is is that he raised the defense of provocation. And if
that’s what’s happened in this case and that’s what I’m telling you you
need to tell me. If you were provoked some way or it was some sort of
incident that arose. Then now’s the time. The only thing I give my
brother-in-law credit for was he did step up to the plate. He did tell
‘em what happened. I mean something obviously went on between the
two of you. Mark. Something went on between you and John. And I
don’t think it happened on the fifteenth. It happened before that. It’s
not gonna be easy livin’ with this Mark. Not gonna be easy for anybody.
Wasn’t easy for us. Family was devastated. It’s gonna happen. Those
are the facts. Those are things you can’t change. You can’t change now
that this has happened but we also can’t go back. We can’t go back and

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007210
 take that day back when all this happened. But we can do the right
thing. And the right thing is telling me the truth about what happened
that night. What happened between the two of you. Somethin’ went
wrong.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK What went wrong that day Mark? This guy come over there uninvited?
What happened? Tell me somethin’ Mark do you really think this is
gonna go away? You know (Stammers) you don’t think that cuz you’re
not a stupid guy.

TWITCHELL Oh (Sighs)

CLARK So what can we do to get to the bottom of this Mark? Was this an
accident? How did it happen Mark? I kinda think this has happened spur
of the moment. Cuz you didn’t really do a lot of thinkin’ about
afterwards. Which tells me that it happened… by spur of the moment or
by accident. Somethin’ like that.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK It tells me you didn’t wanna do it on purpose. If that’s the case Mark
this is the time to tell me.

TWITCHELL As opposed to what other time?

CLARK No there is gonna… there’s not gonna be another time. I’m just tellin’
you and I keep tellin’ you and you know it you’ve agreed with me that
it’s not gonna go away.

TWITCHELL (Groans) Oh. (Sighs)

CLARK And you know it’s not gonna go away Mark.

TWITCHELL What time did you wake up today?

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007211
CLARK Early.

TWITCHELL Well I mean not today I guess yesterday.

CLARK Early.

TWITCHELL Is the adrenaline keepin’ you going?

CLARK No. I’m tired too.

TWITCHELL I feel like that’s all that I’m on right now.

CLARK Mm. So let’s get to the truth. And then we can end this. The problem
is you don’t wanna tell me the truth. Why don’t you wanna tell me the
truth? Can you answer that question Mark? Why can’t you give me your
version of events that night?

TWITCHELL Cuz I’m scared. (Stammers) I always have this instinct to wanna be able
to try to hold on to… I don’t even know what.

CLARK I can imagine you’re scared that’s a perfectly natural feeling at this
time. But things happen there Mark between you and John. And I don’t
think he can speak for himself anymore. You’re the only one that can
tell us what happened that night. What’s goin’ through your mind right
now Mark?

TWITCHELL Almost nothing. Anything I try to push out is like… what’s it like… it’s
like skating uphill. This this tired trying to formulate thought anymore.

CLARK I don’t think you need to formulate thought what I think you need to
formulate is the truth. There’s two sides to every story.

TWITCHELL Yeah but stories come with questions and more answers and more
stories.

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007212
CLARK Well stories come with facts and truth. There won’t be many questions.
People make mistakes. It happens every day. Some mistakes are bigger
than others. But life goes on and we deal with those mistakes.

TWITCHELL Well… I guess my marriage is over so I don’t really have to worry about
protecting her anymore.

CLARK Your daughter will be taken care of.

TWITCHELL Yeah.

CLARK Your wife’s here, your mother and father. Your parents are in Edmonton
are they not?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK She’ll be looked after. I can see this is eating you up. There somethin’
went wrong there Mark. Tell me what went wrong. You know deep
down Mark that everything I’ve told you in this room has been a fact.
Has been the truth. I haven’t tried to baffle you with bullshit on
anything.

TWITCHELL Again you know what I mean you say that but part of me is always gonna
wonder.

CLARK That’s cuz you watch too much TV. We all do I guess.

TWITCHELL Well I I think I understand the difference uh--

CLARK The bottom line though is I’m just here to get the truth. And the truth
isn’t always pleasant I know that. I mean this wasn’t somebody you
knew. You were not close to this fellah. You didn’t know what he was
like. Not a family member. I just don’t know what set, set it off. Cuz
your demeanor is, appears to be so calm. So rationale. Like what set it

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 off that night to set these things in motion? What happened between
you and John Mark?

TWITCHELL Uh I can’t even get there right now. Right now I’m thinking about…
immediate needs like…

CLARK What are those immediate needs?

TWITCHELL Uh contact lenses are gonna burn a hole in my head in a couple of hours.
Um… I gonna wanna get to the finish line but at the same time… I think
uh--

CLARK Well I think we should get to the finish line.

TWITCHELL Consulting with a lawyer is gonna be really important.

CLARK You can do that at any time you want. I told you that right from the
start.

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK You know exactly why you’re here. Cuz John’s gone missing. The
reason you’re sittin’… is you’re the guy that made him go missing. I’m
just trying to find out the why behind it. Why this happened what…
what turned it to make you do something like this. There’s obviously
gotta be other factors involved. How long have you been married Mark?

TWITCHELL Almost two years. This time.

CLARK How long were you married the first time.

TWITCHELL Four. Looks like I’ll become the stistick (Phonetic). Didn’t expect that.

CLARK Why? I think you’re already were a statistic when you were divorced the
first time. Right?

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TWITCHELL Well something’s you just gotta do because you realize that your
ultimate decision leads to what’s gonna end up when your long term
happiness and you can’t just… feel obligated to how other people are
gonna think about it.

CLARK Don’t you think that applies here too? Long term happiness. I think it
applies. Yeah it seems like the end of the word now.

TWITCHELL We’re not that important.

CLARK I think we are.

TWITCHELL That’s gonna get real deep and philosophical so I won’t even go there.
Um--

CLARK Yeah I’m not a big philosophical guy either. I work more on facts and
truth. And I know I’m not dealin’ with a dumb individual here. But
somethin’ went wrong there. And you can fill that in. It’s not easy Mark
I know. But how does your life go on if… if we don’t clear this up. How
do you ever begin to rebuild it again?

TWITCHELL I think something like that’s even possible.

CLARK Oh of course I do. Happens all the time. I see it all the time I used to
work at Edmonton Max. I was the liaison guy out there. So I’d do all the
investigations out at Edmonton Institution. Dealt with all the hardcore
convicts guys that were in there for way worse than than this like I’m
talkin’ guys that have done mass murders. Multiple killings. Killing
family members. Planned executions.

TWITCHELL (Makes noise with mouth)

CLARK They accepted their punishment they’re doin’ their time. But those
guys they’re a different breed they’re not you. Those guys… very very
few if I can I can’t even think of one at the Max, maybe in other

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 institutions, they’re the hardcore of the hardcore they’re the ones that
have no remorse. They don’t care.

TWITCHELL Huh.

CLARK It’s like they’re they’re missing something I don’t know if they were
born with something missing or what. But they don’t have that remorse,
I call it like a remorse syndrome they don’t have it. They don’t have a
conscience. They don’t care about anybody. To them… killing
somebody means nothing. I mean those are the worst or the worst.
Those are the ones you’re dealin’ with out there all the time. That’s
not you. You’re not that type of person. I’ve talked to you long enough
in here the last several hours to know that. Those guys show no emotion
over anything. They’re cold. That’s not you. Everything’s runnin’
through your head right now. And rightly so. It’s not an easy thing I
know you’d love to go back and take back that day but you can’t. You
know you can’t do that. What’s done is done. But you can move on
from here and yeah it’s not easy. Of course not. It’s not gonna be easy.
But it’s also not the end it’s not the end of your life. It’s not the end of
(Stammers) of your family’s life. I’m sure you’re still gonna wanna see
your daughter one day. You made a mistake.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK But in order to get past that I need you to explain to me what happened.
What happened to make you make that mistake? What started this all
off? Your car break-in had nothing to do with this. I don’t believe your
car was even broken in to. You realized you made a mistake. Things got
carried away. Somethin’ happened to John. And you panicked. You
didn’t know what to do and you made up a story.

TWITCHELL (Makes noise with mouth)

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CLARK I mean the irony of this is you could probably make a movie out of this
one day. There’s an irony. That’s probably never been done.
Something like this happens you write a script and make a movie.
Probably never been done. But things are gonna change for you now and
you know that. And I think this has been eating at you since it
happened. It’s probably been wreaking havoc on your home life too.

TWITCHELL Do you have any idea what it’s like living with constant apprehension?

CLARK I can’t say that I do.

TWITCHELL I’d like to not feel that anymore. (Sighs)

CLARK Well this is your chance to get rid of that feeling.

TWITCHELL Oh but it brings on a whole new type.

CLARK Well sure it does. (Overtalk)

TWITCHELL It’s a--

CLARK Sure it does.

TWITCHELL Wh- (Stammers) okay what’s the steps in uh getting a lawyer cuz I don’t
have one.

CLARK I just take you outta this room to a phone and you can call.

TWITCHELL Is it like… delayed I mean well--

CLARK There’s phone number there. There’s phone book. Take you to a phone
you can call. There’s phone books there. There’s a Legal Aid number on
the wall.

TWITCHELL Mm.

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CLARK They’ll provide you any legal advice you want. Take you out anytime. If
you want to call any specific lawyer you know there’s white and yellow
pages there. That apprehension you’re feeling how long have you been
feeling that?

TWITCHELL Any longer than two minutes is too long. Uh… okay let’s see…

CLARK Has it been goin’ on since this happened?

TWITCHELL I need…

CLARK Was it goin’ on before? Would you feel more comfortable writing down
what happened?

TWITCHELL Uh I don’t know. Maybe. Maybe not. It’s been a… hm…

CLARK I mean you can write out what happened that night if you want. Don’t
you think its right? The moral thing to do to get this guy back to his
family? Give them some closure. His friends have called us.

(Tapping)

CLARK If there are other stressors going on in you life at the time that’s, this is
what you need to tell me now. Other things are goin’ on Mark

TWITCHELL Wouldn’t that really be irrelevant though?

CLARK (Unintelligible)

TWITCHELL Really.

CLARK I would think it would be very relevant. Don’t you think? Whether they
be financial, at home, marriage, health. I don’t know. Lot of things go
on behind closed doors. Every one of us has three lives. We have our
work life where we behave one way at work. We have our home life
where we behave a certain way at home. And we have our secret life.

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007218
 And I guarantee every single person on this planet has a secret life.
Things they do that maybe they don’t want people to know, it could be
good or bad, don’t always have to be good and they don’t always have to
be bad. Somthin’ went on there. One of your lives. I think somethin’
was goin’ on in all three of your lives. That led to this. You mentioned
earlier your marriage is over why do you say that?

TWITCHELL It’s complicated. Cuz I (Stammers) thinking about telling you but it’s
just so friggin’ complicated it would take you hours just to go through
that. Uhhhm…

CLARK I wouldn’t mind listenin’.

TWITCHELL (Sighs)

CLARK What’s been goin’ on in your marriage to make you say that?

TWITCHELL I need to find out. (Stammers) I think she already called some legal
place. Figure what that is first and if uh if that’s the case I’ll just call
them instead of goin’ through a phone book.

CLARK You callin’ your wife?

TWITCHELL Mm hm.

CLARK Want me to leave you while you talk to her?

TWITCHELL Sure.

CLARK Okay. I’ll come back in a few minutes.

TWITCHELL Okay she’s not there. She might be sleeping. Okay. (Sighs)

CLARK What do you thinks gonna happen to you?

TWITCHELL At this point I don’t know. (Groans)

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CLARK Do you know the difference between uh… three types of murder? First
degree, second degree, manslaughter.

TWITCHELL Is it intent?

CLARK Yeah basically, first degrees like planning it. Second degree is… is
basically not planning it. Manslaughter is spur of the moment, well like
a bar fight or somethin’.

TWITCHELL Hm.

CLARK Someone punches someone when they get angry. Somethin’ like that.
Which category would you fall in to?

TWITCHELL What’s the category for suicidal?

CLARK Why are you suicidal?

TWITCHELL Cuz what’s the point, I mean… If everything that I’ve been working for
is just suddenly gonna end… (Laughs).

CLARK But you know that’s gonna happen. There’s no way to to sugarcoat that
or to sweeten that up.

TWITCHELL So then--

CLARK But is that any reason to take your own life?

TWITCHELL I don’t know. (Sighs)

CLARK Is that any reason to leave your daughter without a father? Regardless
of whether you’re with right beside her or living in the same house
you’re still her father. And of course it isn’t the best of circumstances
but, you’re not gonna be away from her forever. There will come a time
when you’ll be back to see her. But you wouldn’t be back to see her if
you took your own life. Then you’d never be in her life. She’d never

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 know the real you. And the real you is not this person. That did this to
John. We know that. This is somethin’ that happened because you
weren’t thinkin’ straight. And I believe that one day you’ll be able

Recording ends abruptly

Transcribed by: Bobbie

2009 Jul 07

Proofread by: Not Proofed

Hours to Proofread ____________________

Date Proofread ____________________

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