Pompino Deposition - Properties Removed

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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION
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- - In Re:
THE SALVATION ARMY:
INSPECTION
NO. 911177
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- - -
TUESDAY, AUGUST 6, 2013

- - -
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Oral deposition of RALPH
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POMPONI, taken pursuant to notice at Marshall,
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Dennehey, Warner, Coleman & Goggin, 2000 Market
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Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, commencing at
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9:00 a.m., on the above date, before Michelle M.
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Tate, a Court Reporter and a Notary Public of the
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Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
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DelCASALE, CASEY, MARTIN & MANCHELLO

REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTERS
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230 SOUTH BROAD STREET - SUITE 605

PHILADELPHIA, PA 19102
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(215) 568-2211
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Ralph Pomponi
APPEARANCES:
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF LABOR
BY: MICHAEL P. DOYLE, ESQUIRE
170 South Independence Mall West

Suite 630E
The Curtis Center

Philadelphia, PA
19106
215-861-5139
doyle.michael@dol.gov
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Counsel for the United States Government

MARSHALL, DENNEHEY, WARNER,
COLEMAN & GOGGIN
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BY: ERIC A. WEISS, ESQUIRE

DAVID S. WOLF, ESQUIRE
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2000 Market Street

Philadelphia, PA
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19103
215-575-2676
215-575-3577
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eaweiss@mdwcg.com
dswolf@mdwcg.com
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Counsel for The Salvation Army

ALSO PRESENT:
OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH
ADMINISTRATION
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SARAH CARLE, Compliance Officer

US Customs House
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Room 242
2nd & Chestnut Streets
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Philadelphia, PA 19106
carle.sarah@dol.gov
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215-597-4955 ext. 239
DelCasale, Casey, Martin & Manchello

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
WITNESS
RALPH POMPONI
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X
PAGE
BY MR. DOYLE:
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- - - - -
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E X H I B I T S
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NO.
DESCRIPTION
Government-A
List of Employees
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Government-B
Handbook Page
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Government-C
Photograph
32
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Government-D
Photograph
34
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Government-E
Photograph
36
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Government-F
Photograph
39
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Government-G
Diagram
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Government-H
Photograph
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Government-I
Photograph
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Government-J
Photograph
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Government-K
Photograph
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- - - - -
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(215) 568-2211
PAGE
Ralph Pomponi
- - - - -
RALPH POMPONI, after having
been first duly sworn, was examined and
testified as follows:
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
the record and spell your last name?
A.
It's Ralph Pomponi, P-O-M-P-O-N-I.
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Q.
Mr. Pomponi, my name is Michael Doyle.
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the attorney with the United States Department of
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Labor.
Sir, would you please state your name for
I'm
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We're here today to have you answer
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questions under oath with regard to OSHA Inspection
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911 711 pursuant to the Secretary of Labor's
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authority under section 8B of the Occupation Safety
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and Health Act.
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Have you ever testified under oath
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before?
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A.
No.
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Q.
You've never been deposed or testified at a
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trial?
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A.
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lawsuit or something, yes.
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3
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Oh, at a trial, several years ago, civil

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
You were a witness at that trial?
A.
Not a witness.
Q.
You were a juror member.
Okay.
I was a juror.
Let me just explain to you
how this will work today.
here.
questions and your answers will be recorded by the
court reporter.
the day what we hope to have is a clean record of
We have a court reporter
I will be asking you questions.
My
And it's important at the end of
10
our discussion.
11
first thing I will ask is you have to give a yes or
12
no answer or a verbal answer rather than a nod of
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the head or shake of the head.
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So, in order to have that the
Okay?
15
A.
Okay.
16
Q.
Also, if you don't understand any of my
17
questions, just say so and I'll try to ask a more
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clear question.
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Okay?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
The other thing is, please wait for my
22
question to be done and then give your answer.
23
I'll do my best to wait for you to give a full and
24
complete answer before I ask the next question.
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4

(215) 568-2211
And
Ralph Pomponi
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
reason, just let me know.
If you need to take a break for any
Okay?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Before we begin, is there any reason you
would not be able to answer my questions today
fully and truthfully?
A.
No.
10
Q.
You're not sick at all?
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A.
No.
12
Q.
You're not on any medications that would
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affect your judgment?
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A.
No.
15
Q.
Okay.
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employer?
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A.
Salvation Army.
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Q.
What is your current job title?
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A.
Store supervisor.
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Q.
Where is your duty station?
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A.
Roxborough in Philadelphia.
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Q.
What is the name of the store that you
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supervise?
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A.
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Mr. Pomponi, who is your current
Well, I supervise nine stores.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
Rehabilitation Center?
A.
Yes, that's correct, yes.
Q.
Okay.
supervisor taken to a management level position?
It's a management level position?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Are you paid by salary or by the hour?
A.
Salary.
10
Q.
What is the address of the Philadelphia
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Adult Rehabilitation Center?
12
A.
4555 Pechin Street.
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Q.
How long have you been employed by the
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Salvation Army?
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A.
17 years.
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Q.
Prior to becoming the store manager, what
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position
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manager?
Okay.
Your duty station, is that the Adult
Is your position as a store
-- well, how long have you been store
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MR. WEISS:
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Store supervisor.
- - - - -
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BY MR. DOYLE:
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Q.
I'm sorry, store supervisor.
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A.
17 years.
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Q.
So, the entire 17 years you've held the
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3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
same position?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Where did you work prior to the 17 years at
the Salvation Army?
A.
Thrift, which was another similar type of
business.
profit not for nonprofit.
five years.
Well, I worked for a company called Village
It was a thrift business, but it was for

And I worked there for
10
Q.
11
Army, have you always been at the Adult
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Rehabilitation Center?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Tell me about your duties as store
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supervisor.
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A.
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deal with primarily all the personnel issues.
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Like, in other words, if there's an issue with
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personnel, I'll get the call and I'll try to give
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counseling or direction how to handle it.
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Q.
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issue that you would deal with?
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A.
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with an employee, if they were missing time or so
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3
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During your 17 years with the Salvation
Well, I'm responsible for the sales.
And I
What would be an example of a personnel
Well, if there was documentation involved

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
forth, how to write those warnings.
Q.
firing of personnel?
A.
Yes, well management.
Q.
How does instruction work?
that you supervise nine stores?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Where are those geographically?
those located?
Okay.
Are you involved in the hiring and
You testified
Where are
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A.
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Reading.
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However, that was damaged due to Sandy.
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currently closed, but we're hoping to reopen it.
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Q.
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of these?
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A.
Family stories.
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Q.
Family stores.
Well, the one furthest north is in

The one furthest south is Atlantic City.
So, that's
What's the proper official title for each

I take that they're --
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What is sold at these family
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stores?
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A.
Well, clothing, furniture, household items.
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Q.
Obviously, we're here today to talk about
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the building collapse at 22nd and Market Street.
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A.
Yes.
24
Q.
There was a Salvation Army Family Store
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3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
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located at the corner of 22nd and Market?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Is that one of the nine stores that you
supervised?
A.
Yes.
Q.
How long have you supervised that store?
A.
17 years.
Q.
In carrying out your job functions, do you
visit these stores periodically?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
How often?
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A.
Well, I try to, try to get to all of them
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on a weekly basis, but depending on the problems or
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situations, that doesn't happen all the time.
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There may be more issues at one store.
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don't get to all of them in a weeks time, no.
17
Q.
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personnel at the 22nd and Market Street store?
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A.
Yes.
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Q.
Who are the management people that you
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hired?
22
A.
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Stasiorowski.
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2
3
4
Okay.
So, maybe I
Did you hire the management
It was Margarita Agosto, Richard
MR. WEISS:
If you hold on a

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
second, I'll give you the spellings.
MR. DOYLE:
We'll mark this as Government
I can do that.
Exhibit-A.
- - - - -
(Whereupon, the Document was
marked as Exhibit Government Exhibit-A for
identification by the court reporter.)
- - - - -
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BY MR. DOYLE:
11
Q.
Take a look at this document.
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A.
(Whereupon, the witness complies with the
13
request.)
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MR. WEISS:
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That was a two-page
document when submitted, I believe.
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MR. DOYLE:
17
Well, this page will
suffice what we need.
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- - - - -
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BY MR. DOYLE:
20
Q.
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the --
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A.
Employees.
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Q.
-- employees?
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A.
(Whereupon, the witness is indicating
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3
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So, Government Exhibit-A is a list of

(215) 568-2211
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Ralph Pomponi
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affirmatively.)
Q.
employees of?
A.
Salvation Army.
Q.
They're at the 22nd and Market Street
store?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
involved in the hiring of Margarita Agosto and
Where are these employees?
What are they
And you testified that you were
10
Richard Stasiorowski?
11
A.
Well, I promoted her.
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Q.
I'm sorry?
13
A.
I promoted her.
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employee.
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manager at the time, she was hired and promoted to
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a store manager.
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Q.
What was Richard Stasiorowski's position?
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A.
He was a key person or assistant manager.
19
Q.
Okay.
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A.
That's correct.
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Q.
Richard Stasiorowski was the assistant
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store manager?
23
A.
Yes.
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Q.
Is that a common management structure for
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3
4
She was a regular
And based on information from her
So, Margarita was the store manager?

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
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the thrift stores that you manage?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
involved in the hiring of the management?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
employees?
A.
No.
Q.
Well, how would they go about being hired?
10
A.
Well, they would apply at the store.
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However, at the program when a person finishes the
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program at the ARC, they're eligible for
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employment.
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they're approved through headquarters to work for
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us.
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to a store as needed when we need people.
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basically the manager hires her staff first, he or
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she for the stores.
19
Q.
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program are you referring to?
21
A.
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people come there to help them with their
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addictions.
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2
3
4
And it's your testimony that you're
What about the nonmanagement
It has to go through a process where
So, I do an interview with them and send them
Okay.
You mentioned a program.
But
What
Well, it's a rehabilitation center.
MR. WEISS:
So,
Why would these people

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
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go to the center --
THE WITNESS:
MR. DOYLE:
To recover.
I got it.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
store manager at 22nd and Market?
A.
Not offhand.
Q.
Okay.
Do you know when Margarita Agosto became a
I'd have to look at that.
But you believe you were involved in
10
hiring her?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
In terms of your job, your chain of
13
command --
14
15
MR. WEISS:
He said he promoted
her.
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THE WITNESS:
17
MR. WEISS:
18
19
her.
I promoted her, yes.

He didn't say he hired
I don't know if he did or not.

THE WITNESS:
I didn't, no.
She
20
wasn't part of the adult program.
21
hired through another manager.
22
being there for sometime, we promoted her
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to a store manager.
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2
3
4
MR. DOYLE:
She was
And after
Got it.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
15
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
of command, who did they answer to?
A.
Now, they report directly to me if there's issues
pertaining to personnel or issues as far as
production what they need.
person who's responsible for the inflow and outflow
These store managers, in terms of the chain
Well, it depends on the problem.
Okay.
So, we have another
10
of product that goes into the stores.
11
were any issues with product merchandise coming
12
into the stores, either getting more of it or less
13
of it, they would contact this person.
14
Q.
Who is that person?
15
A.
That's Mark Constable.
16
Q.
Do you know how to smell Mark's last name?
17
A.
Constable.
18
Q.
Constable.
19
A.
Like a constable.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
employees at the store, who would be in the chain
22
of command, who would be responsible for that?
What about the safety of the
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MR. WEISS:
24
the premises, work rules?
2
3
4
So, if there
You mean in terms of

Can you define

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
16
that a little bit?
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
there's an electrical problem in the store that
might create a fire hazard.
problem --
A.
call the administrator directly.
Let me give you an example.
Let's suppose
So, how would that
If that were the issue they would have to
10
Q.
Okay.
11
A.
Anything like that.
12
Q.
Who is the administrator?
13
A.
That's John Cranford.
14
Q.
Is that Major John Cranford?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Now, in terms of who do you report to up
17
the chain of command?
18
A.
John Cranford.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
John Cranford about in the course of your job
21
duties?
22
A.
23
making changes in the store, let's say I was going
24
to transfer somebody somewhere, I would let him
2
3
4
What types of issues would you go to
Well, again, I would always, if I was

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
know first what was going on.
employee issues that had to be dealt with, I would
talk to him about that, let him know what was going
on.
production, that sort of thing, I would let him
know about that.
Q.
reports to?
A.
17
If there were any
If there were any issues with product or
Okay.
Do you know who Major John Cranford
He reports to Major Dietrich and Colonel
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Reigns.
11
Q.
12
visit these --
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
-- stores?
Now, you testified earlier periodically you
15
Are there any other ways that you
16
manage the personnel, the management-level people
17
at these stores in terms of meetings and so forth?
18
A.
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meeting.
20
happen all the time either.
21
Q.
Where do the manager meetings take place?
22
A.
At Roxborough.
23
Q.
Who is invited to these meetings?
24
A.
All the store managers and myself, Mark
2
3
4
Well, yeah.
We'll have a manager's
We try to once a month, but that doesn't

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
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Constable and the Major will be there also.
Q.
Major?
A.
Cranford.
Q.
And is this limited to the nine stores that
you manage?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Are there any other besides the nine that
you manage, are there other stores?
you have these thrift stores and thrift stores
I take it that
10
answer to the Adult Rehabilitation Center.
11
the way it works?
12
A.
I'm not sure --
13
Q.
I take it there's more than nine thrift
14
stores throughout the country?
15
A.
16
district.
17
Q.
Your district?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Is your district called something or is
20
it --
21
A.
Philadelphia ARC.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
managers for all nine stores are invited to these
24
meetings?
2
3
4
Is that
That's a bad way to answer to?
Oh, absolutely, yes.
This is just our
So, these manager meetings, the

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
19
A.
Yes.
Q.
How about the assistant managers?
A.
No.
Q.
So, it's just people at Margarita's level?
A.
Yes.
MR. WEISS:
Let him finish his
question.
THE WITNESS:
MR. WEISS:
He did tell me that.

You were asking him
10
about ways he manages the stores, he
11
described the meetings.
12
speaking with him that he makes weekly
13
phone calls.
14
THE WITNESS:
15
I know also from
Oh, yes, right.
- - - - -
16
BY MR. DOYLE:
17
Q.
18
the phone calls?
19
A.
20
gets what's called a running total.
21
know how much money they've made the previous week
22
and we compare it with what they did the previous
23
week the year before.
24
how well they're doing financially.
2
3
4
Tell us about that.
What's the purpose of
Well, I call the stories on Monday so we

We want to
So, we have an idea as to

So, if they're

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
20
not doing well it gives us a guide, it gives us
something to work with and we can find out based on
a visit, let's say, to check out and see maybe why
their sales are down prior if you were comparing it
the year before.
Q.
Okay.
MR. WEISS:
And describe the other
discussions about what's going on in the
store when you call them?
10
THE WITNESS:
Yes, I'll ask them
11
basically what's going on.
12
any problems, any issues.
13
any, we'll discuss it.
14
something like a personnel issue where I
15
have to go up there and work with the
16
manager and help he or she how to deal with
17
that then that's what I do.
18
out and will visit for that.
19
If there are
And if there are
And if it's
Then I'll go
- - - - -
20
BY MR. DOYLE:
21
Q.
22
through the entire store?
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
What is your purpose in doing that?
2
3
4
When you go out for a visit do you walk

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
21
A.
checking the departments to make sure that they're
adequately full with merchandise.
there's new merchandise on the floor, that there
isn't old merchandise still there.
nature.
Q.
condition of the store at 22nd and Market Street
prior to the collapse?
Well, I'm looking at the departments.
I'm
Make sure that
Things of that
How would you describe the physical
Let's just say, the
10
questions I'm going to ask you unless I say
11
otherwise, let's assume I'm just asking about the
12
2013.
13
collapse, just that time frame as a frame of
14
reference.
15
condition of the 22nd and Market Street store?
16
A.
17
no issues other than a leak here and there or an
18
air-conditioning not working properly or door or
19
something.
20
ordinary, no.
21
Q.
22
be reported to?
23
A.
24
would be reported to maintenance.
2
3
4
So, from January 2013 until the building
How would you describe the physical
It's an old building.
There weren't really
I don't recall anything out of the
Okay.
What about a leaky roof, would that
That wouldn't be reported to me.
That

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
22
Q.
Is that Mark Constable?
A.
No, that's Chad Cox.
there were any issues with maintenance, whether it
be lights out, doors not working properly, anything
of that nature, the policy was fill out a form,
send it in and if you don't hear anything within a
reasonable time, call Mark Constable, he would also
go to the administrator.
reasonable time nothing was heard from again then
In other words, if
And if within a
10
they were to call the administrator directly.
11
Q.
Mark Constable, what's his duty station?
12
A.
His duty, he deals primarily with the
13
inflow and outflow of goods, the trucks, the
14
drivers, the sorting area will be processed to
15
clothing, all production end of it.
16
Q.
Where is his main office at?
17
A.
It's in Roxborough.
18
Q.
At the Adult Rehabilitation Center?
19
A.
Yes, that's correct.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
A.
It's there also.
22
Q.
He is also at the Adult Rehabilitation
23
Center?
24
A.
2
3
4
How about Chad Cox?
Yes.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
the process, but if you're walking around the store
and you see a problem related to the physical
condition, would you do anything about it?
A.
form?
Q.
Okay.
A.
Did you send it in and that's what I tell
them.
I understand what you testified to as to
My first question is did you fill out a
10
Q.
11
question like that of Margarita?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
So, you didn't see any problems with the
14
physical plant of the store that would cause --
15
A.
16
communicate it, no.
17
Q.
Okay.
18
A.
I wasn't aware of it.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
Okay.
21
22
23
24
2
3
4
Did you ever have occasion in 2013 to ask a
Unless they send out the forms or they
I'm going to show you this.
MR. BOYLE:
We'll mark this as
Government Exhibit-B, as in boy.

- - - - (Whereupon, the Document was

(215) 568-2211
23
Ralph Pomponi
24
marked as Government Exhibit-B for
- - - - -
MR. WEISS:
Wait one second,
MR. DOYLE:
Sure.
MR. WEISS:
Just so you know, down
please.
here that's a bates number.
documents to Salvation Army we number them.
10
THE WITNESS:
11
MR. WEISS:
12
When I produce
Okay.
That's what that is,
but go ahead now.
13
- - - - -
14
BY MR. DOYLE:
15
Q.
16
know what this document is that we're looking at?
17
A.
It's part of the handbook.
18
Q.
Tell me what the handbook is.
19
A.
Well, it's a book that we give to the
20
employees so they know, first of all, the mission
21
of the Salvation Army and secondly the rules and
22
regulations of what they can and can't do.
23
the policies are.
24
Q.
2
3
4
So, the question is first of all, do you
What
In terms of safety-related issues, does

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
Salvation Army have a written safety program?
A.
as that.
Q.
hazards, any sorts of hazards that could present
themselves at a retail facility in terms of safety
of the employees, are there any written rules that
the Salvation Army has that --
A.
Well --
10
Q.
Let me finish the question.
25
I'm not sure what your question is as far
Okay.
11
I referred earlier to electrical
-- Has to address those kind of
12
concerns?
13
A.
I'm not sure of your --
14
Q.
Okay.
As far as written.
15
MR. WEISS:
16
THE WITNESS:
17
MR. WEISS:
18
I mean this?
That's in writing.
That's in writing.
Referring it as B,
Government Exhibit-B.
19
- - - - -
20
BY MR. DOYLE:
21
Q.
22
other place I would look to if I wanted to know
23
what written policies Salvation Army has for the
24
benefit of its employees?
2
3
4
Besides Government Exhibit-B, is there any

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
26
A.
handbook, what would be in that handbook, yes.
Q.
housekeeping, is that the statement of the
Salvation Army safety policy?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And I'm reading from Government Exhibit-B
under housekeeping, "safety hazards should be
reported immediately to the supervisor."
I'm not aware.
I'm only aware of the
Is this page -- I take it under the heading
Did I
10
read that correctly?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
this --
14
A.
Relating to that would be John Cranford.
15
Q.
Okay.
16
this sentence would be the administrator?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
A.
Would handle anything like that.
20
Q.
How does someone in Margarita Agosto's
21
position know that she is supposed to report
22
safety-related issues to Major Cranford?
23
A.
We've had meetings.
24
Q.
Tell me about those meetings.
2
3
4
So, who would be a supervisor in
So, you're saying the supervisor in

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
27
A.
up from time to time, whether they're production
issues, whether they're personnel issues, which
would be me.
pertaining to the buildings, they would be
addressed at those meetings or discussed.
words, how to handle that.
Q.
you tell me whether you agree with the paragraph
10
whether it's an accurate reflection of Salvation
11
Army's policy.
12
"Salvation Army Employee Manual states safety
13
hazards should be reported immediately to the
14
supervisor, reports are made verbally and/or in
15
writing to the store manager.
16
puts in the request to the maintenance
17
department --
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
-- at the Philadelphia Adult Rehabilitation
20
Center with a copy to the administrator."
21
do you agree with that?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
I'll continue reading.
24
emergency, the administrator is called
2
3
4
Well, we've gone over any issues that come
Okay.
And if there were any other issues
In other
Let me read to you a paragraph and
And the paragraph states,
The store manager
So far
"If it's an

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
28
immediately.
discussed at the weekly manager's meeting."
do you agree with that?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
immediate decision is made as to whether the matter
can be handled by the Salvation Army maintenance
department or by an outside contractor or company.
The resolution is then communicated to the store
If it's not an emergency it's

So far
"Depending upon the issue an
10
manager who shares the information with the
11
employees."
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Okay.
14
a store manager know that this is the policy
15
because this is a bit different from what's stated
16
in Government Exhibit-B.
17
say.
18
manager that this is the process?
19
A.
20
meeting.
21
Q.
22
was communicated to Margarita Agosto?
23
A.
24
2
3
4
Do you agree with that?
So, I guess my question is how does
It's an elaboration, lets
So, how is that communicated to the store
That would have been communicated at a
Do you recall being at a meeting where it
I can't recall.
MR. WEISS:
Specifically one way or

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
29
the other?
THE WITNESS:
Yeah, she would have
known that.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Why do you say she would have know that?
A.
Well, if she attended the meetings and paid
attention, she would have know that.
reinforced too in discussions if they have an
And it's
10
issue.
11
calls, to send those things in if there's any
12
issue.
13
Q.
14
Margarita's position when they first start the job,
15
are they given any kind of training as to how to be
16
a store manager?
17
A.
18
to help them.
19
situation she was already an employee.
20
knew how to do certain parts of the position of the
21
job just by being an employee and working there.
22
The part she had to learn and was trained with was
23
with the store manager who trained her how to do
24
the technical things, running the registers, doing
2
3
4
They're always directed to make those phone
As a store manager, does someone in
Well, I worked with them, you know, and try

First of all, in Margarita's
So, she

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
30
voids, doing cash register issues, things like
that.
she worked with me directly and how to deal with
other issues that may come up.
Q.
OSHA-related training?
A.
No.
Q.
So, you never received, for example, a OSHA
ten-hour training course?
So that once she became a store manager then
Okay.
Have you ever received any type of
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
Have you received any type of workplace
12
safety training at all?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Do you know what are the responsibilities
15
of the store manager someone like Margarita Agosto
16
if there is a work-related injury that results in
17
lost time at --
18
A.
19
would contact Jim Heitzenroder.
20
spelling either.
21
Q.
22
pronounce again his last name.
23
A.
24
2
3
4
Oh, if there's a work-related injury, they

I don't know the
You don't know the spelling?
Well,
Heitzenroder.
MR. WOLF:
It's

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
31
H-E-I-T-Z-E-N-R-O-D-E-R.
THE WITNESS:
MR. DOYLE:
I think it's German.

I would agree with
that.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
I'm sorry, I interrupted.
A.
That's okay.
person was injured or if an employee was injured,
So, they would call -- if a
10
they would contact him.
11
injured, they would write a report and they would
12
send it in.
13
our insurance company and handle that.
14
Well, if a customer was
And then he would then in turn contact
Now, if it were an employee who was
15
injured then they would have paperwork that they
16
would call him that he would put together, call the
17
insurance company and they would go from there.
18
Q.
Have you ever heard of an OSHA 300 Form?
19
A.
No.
20
Q.
Do you know Jim Heitzenroder's job title?
21
A.
Well, he does payroll.
22
clerk.
23
Q.
And where is his duty station?
24
A.
Roxborough.
2
3
4
He's the payroll

(215) 568-2211
1
1
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
32
Let me show you a few photographs here.
- - - - -
marked as Government Exhibit-C for
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Charley.
I'm handing you Government Exhibit-C, as in

Do you recognize what that picture is
10
depicting?
11
A.
Looks like a leak.
12
Q.
Do you know where the photograph is?
13
A.
Yeah.
14
Q.
Where is this?
15
A.
It's going downstairs to the basement area.
16
Q.
So, we're looking at a photograph of what?
17
A.
It looks like there's water there.
18
really can't tell.
19
Q.
20
the Salvation Army Thrift Store at 22nd and Market?
21
A.
Is it, yeah, it is the Salvation Army.
22
Q.
It's the interior of the building at 22nd
23
and Market?
24
A.
2
3
4
Okay.
Does this look like the interior of
Well, yes, it's it.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
33
Q.
be a stairway going into the basement?
A.
It's a stairway going down, yes.
Q.
Do you recognize what looks like staining
on the walls?
Okay.
You testified that that appears to
MR. WEISS:
Wait a minute.
You
gave me a different picture.
MR. DOYLE:
They're not the same
10
MR. WEISS:
No, not at all.
11
MR. DOYLE:
Sorry about that.
picture?
12
don't have another one.
13
MR. WEISS:
It's all right.
14
MR. WEISS:
Just bear with me one
15
second.
16
correct?
17
calling it C and it appears to be --
18
So, this was the one that's C,

Is that what you said?
THE WITNESS:
19
He's
It looks like dirt or
something on there.
20
- - - - -
21
BY MR. DOYLE:
22
Q.
23
staining on the wall in Government Exhibit-C?
24
A.
2
3
4
I guess my question is do you recognize the
I don't know what that is.

(215) 568-2211
1
1
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
34
Does it look familiar?
MR. WEISS:
What he's asking you,
when you were there before this incident,
did you notice that?
THE WITNESS:
MR. WEISS:
No.
Is that a fair
statement of what you really wanted to ask
him?
MR. DOYLE:
10
Thank you.
- - - - -
11
BY MR. DOYLE:
12
Q.
13
out to you beforehand?
14
A.
I don't recall right now.
15
Q.
Did any of the employees --
16
A.
I know that there was the one picture that
17
there was some loose plaster, but that's --
18
19
20
21
Did any of the employees ever point that
MR. DOYLE:
We'll mark that as
Government Exhibit-D, as in David.

22
marked as Government Exhibit-D for
23
24
- - - - -
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
building prior to --
A.
Yes.
Q.
You pointed to Government Exhibit-D, as in
David, and said that there was some loose plaster?
A.
Yeah.
Q.
And is that going into the stairwell?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Did any of the employees ever say anything
11
to you about that condition or say, hey, we need to
12
get this fixed?
13
A.
14
something to the administrator to have it checked
15
out.
16
attempts to fix it, I'm not sure at this point, but
17
it was reported that there were some plaster on
18
that wall.
19
Q.
Do you know when that was reported?
20
A.
I'm not sure.
21
Q.
Was it in 2013?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Do you know who it was reported to?
24
A.
Again, it would have been directed towards
2
3
4
I'm just trying to get a sense of the
Well, again they would have to send
Now, was that fixed or were there any

(215) 568-2211
35
Ralph Pomponi
the administrator.
wasn't done within a timely basis then they may
have said something to find out what was going on.
So, I did mention that to the administrator that
there was plaster on the wall.
Q.
the administrator?
A.
don't recall.
36
Now, if for some reason it
Do you remember when you mentioned that to
It was this year, but it was months ago.
10
Q.
What was the administrator's response?
11
A.
Well, they would look into it.
12
Q.
I'll show you what I'm marking as
13
Government Exhibit-E, as in Edward.
14
- - - - -
15
16
marked as Government Exhibit-E for
17
18
- - - - -
19
BY MR. DOYLE:
20
Q.
21
Government Exhibit-E?
22
A.
Looks like it's the back room.
23
Q.
I'm sorry?
24
A.
It looks like it's the back room, the
2
3
4
Do you recognize what's depicted in

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
37
receiving area is what it looks like, yeah.
Q.
Market Street building?
A.
Yes.
Q.
And do you see up top it looks like there's
panels missing?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Do you know how long that condition existed
at the building?
10
A.
Is that the receiving area at the 22nd and
Can you be more specific?
11
MR. WEISS:
12
the panels were missing?
13
THE WITNESS:
14
Yes.
- - - - -
15
BY MR. DOYLE:
16
Q.
Were they missing throughout all of 2013?
17
18
Do you know how long
MR. WEISS:
A.
If you know?
I don't recall, no.
19
- - - - -
20
BY MR. DOYLE:
21
Q.
22
while you visited the store in 2013?
23
A.
I don't remember seeing this like this, no.
24
Q.
Did you have occasion to go back into this
2
3
4
Do you recall seeing this condition at all

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
receiving area?
A.
I have to go through the receiving area.
MR. WEISS:
38
He usually goes in the
back door.
THE WITNESS:
Right.
In other
words, I try to park in the back because
you can't move there.
I'll call them ahead of time and they make
sure there's nothing blocking the back so I
So, what I'll do is
10
can pull right up and I jump out and go
11
in.
12
- - - - -
13
BY MR. DOYLE:
14
Q.
Is that Ludlow Street?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
So, you park on Ludlow Street?
17
A.
Right behind the building yeah.
18
Q.
And you enter through the back?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
And that takes you into the receiving area?
21
A.
Again, I don't recall how long that's been
22
that way, no.
23
Q.
24
Margarita or one of the employees pointing this
2
3
4
Do you recall anyone from the store,

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
39
condition out to you?
A.
No.
Q.
We'll do one more photo of the interior and
then we'll move to the demolition, questions about
the demolition.
- - - - -
marked as Government Exhibit-F for
10
- - - - -
11
BY MR. DOYLE:
12
Q.
13
Frank.
14
A.
I'll hand you Government Exhibit-F, as in
Where is that?
15
MR. WEISS:
16
You tell him.
I can't
answer.
17
- - - - -
18
BY MR. DOYLE:
19
Q.
Do you recognize what this is?
20
A.
I'm trying to figure out what that is.
21
Q.
If you don't know, that's fine.
22
A.
I don't know.
23
24
2
3
4
MR. WEISS:
Can we go off the
record a second?

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
MR. DOYLE:
40
Sure.
- - - - -
(Whereupon, a discussion was
held off the record.)
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
anything?
A.
Are you doing okay.
Do you need a break or
I'll break for a few minutes.
10
MR. DOYLE:
Let's take a
11
five-minute bathroom break.
12
THE WITNESS:
13
Okay.
- - - - -
14
(Whereupon, a short break was
15
taken.)
16
- - - - -
17
MR. DOYLE:
18
Back on.
- - - - -
19
BY MR. DOYLE:
20
Q.
21
building collapse, how long had Margarita Agosto
22
been the store manager at 22nd and Market?
23
A.
24
can't guess.
2
3
4
Mr. Pomponi, how long was, prior to the
You asked me that question earlier.

I'm going to say seven months.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
41
Q.
how long he had been --
A.
look it up.
Q.
Had it been several years?
A.
Oh, no, within a short period of time.
Q.
So, let's talk about the demolition of the
buildings that went on next door to the 22nd and
Market.
10
How about Richard Stasiorowski, do you know
I'm really not sure exactly.
I'd have to
Just for a frame of reference, I'll mark
Government Exhibit G.
11
- - - - -
12
13
marked as Government Exhibit-G for
14
15
- - - - -
16
BY MR. DOYLE:
17
Q.
18
I came up with.
19
this is laid out here.
20
basically the row of buildings that we're going to
21
be talking about here on Market Street.
22
A.
Okay.
23
Q.
Does this look accurate in terms of the
24
layout of the buildings and so forth?
2
3
4
Government Exhibit-G is just a drawing that

Tell me if you agree with the way
This is a drawing of

(215) 568-2211
1
1
Ralph Pomponi
A.
Yes.
MR. WEISS:
42
He has no reason to
disagree.
THE WITNESS:
I have no reason to
disagree.
MR. WEISS:
I'll agree with you on
the record that it's a fairly accurate
description.
that way.
10
I don't think he was oriented
- - - - -
11
BY MR. DOYLE:
12
Q.
13
Salvation Army property for how many years?
14
A.
17 years.
15
Q.
So, in that time, was it always your
16
practice to -- how would you get there?
17
said you would park on Ludlow Street?
18
A.
Uh-huh.
19
Q.
How would you
20
A.
Well, if I didn't park on Ludlow Street, I
21
would find a parking space and walk up.
22
Q.
23
in the neighborhood?
24
A.
2
3
4
But you've been coming to this 2140
Okay.
I know you
--
So, you would park where, anywhere
I would park maybe 23rd Street someplace if

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
43
there was a two-hour parking I would walk over,
especially on a nice day.
Q.
the condition of the buildings next door?
A.
Never, no.
Q.
Would you ever come down Market Street
toward the east?
A.
When you would do that, would you notice
Market Street this way?
MR. WEISS:
Towards City Hall.
10
He's asking you did you walk that way,
11
towards City Hall.
12
here.
13
City Hall being over
THE WITNESS:
14
When would that be?
- - - - -
15
BY MR. DOYLE:
16
Q.
Well, in the course of your 17 years?
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
Okay.
19
garage that's depicted in Government Exhibit-G?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Is there any reason you didn't park there?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Let me show you Government Exhibit-H.
24
2
3
4
Did you ever park at the parking
- - - - -

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
marked as Government Exhibit-H for
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Government Exhibit-H?
A.
It's three buildings.
Q.
So, on the far right what do we have?
10
A.
Salvation Army Thrift store.
11
Q.
Right in the middle we have the Hoagie City
12
store; is that correct?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And then to the left of the Hoagie City
15
Store we have another store, correct?
16
A.
Right.
17
Q.
I'll represent to you that the Salvation
18
Army address was 2140 Market Street.
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
Okay.
21
and 2136 Market Street.
Do you recognize what's being depicted in
22
23
24
2
3
4
The Hoagie City building was 2138
Okay?
A.
Yes.
MR. WEISS:
He's going to accept

(215) 568-2211
44
Ralph Pomponi
your representation to that.
45
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
building to the left is 2134 and 2132 Market
Street.
The building next to the Hoagie City
Okay?
A.
Okay.
Q.
And then to the left, which you cannot see
10
in Government Exhibit-H there is a parking garage.
11
Okay?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
So, those are the addresses that I'm
14
representing to you are the addresses for these
15
buildings.
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
So, do you recall, first of all, the
18
condition of the buildings as represented in
19
Government Exhibit-H?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
You never remember a time when all of the
22
buildings were intact?
23
A.
24
looked, no.
2
3
4
I never paid attention to it.
I never
I don't know.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
46
Q.
realized that there was demolition going on next
door?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Well, that there was work being done next
store.
Q.
Did you understand the purpose of the work?
A.
I don't understand the question.
10
Q.
Did you understand that the work that was
11
being done had to do with the raising of the
12
buildings?
When is the first time -- at some point you
13
14
MR. WEISS:
A.
What building?
15
MR. WEISS:
16
Are you referring to --
-- a particular
building here or --
17
- - - - -
18
BY MR. DOYLE:
19
Q.
20
example that the purpose of the work was to tear
21
down both the two buildings that have the addresses
22
at 2138, 2136, 2134 and 2132 Market Street.
23
question is, would you become aware at some point
24
that they were tearing these two buildings down?
2
3
4
Well, using Government Exhibit-H as an

(215) 568-2211
So, my
Ralph Pomponi
47
A.
Yes.
Q.
Can you tell me when is the first time that
you came to that recognition?
realize that they were tearing those buildings
down?
A.
collapse.
It may have been weeks prior to the
MR. WEISS:
When did you first
Keep in mind that
you're lumping four different addresses
10
together.
11
MR. DOYLE:
12
Right.
- - - - -
13
BY MR. DOYLE:
14
Q.
I just want to know --
15
A.
I know that they were working inside the
16
building, they were taking debris out of that
17
because that you would hear.
18
You could see that.
- - - - -
19
20
marked as Government Exhibit-I for
21
22
- - - - -
23
BY MR. DOYLE:
24
Q.
2
3
4
I'm showing you Government Exhibit-I.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
MR. WEISS:
Thank you.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Government Exhibit-I?
A.
taken out.
Q.
still intact; is that correct?
Do you recognize what we're looking at in
Well, it looks like part of the building is
So, here we have the Hoagie City building
10
A.
That's what it looks like, yeah.
11
Q.
But the building next to it, to the left of
12
it looks like it's not there anywhere?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And I guess my question is, did you realize
15
at some point that that building was no longer
16
there?
17
MR. WEISS:
18
Meaning the one at 2132
through 2134?
19
MR. DOYLE:
Yes.
20
MR. WEISS:
Mike is referring to
21
22
these two buildings.

A.
My answer is no.
23
24
2
3
4
- - - - BY MR. DOYLE:

(215) 568-2211
48
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
had been torn down?
A.
No.
Q.
Even during the times you would come and
visit the Salvation Army building?
A.
Well, I didn't go this way.
Q.
Okay.
A.
I always went through the Ludlow Street.
So, I wasn't really concerned with or looking at
So, you never realized that that building
10
what was going on.
11
Q.
So, you never walked by in that direction?
12
A.
Walked by?
13
Q.
Did you have any conversations with the
14
store manager, Margarita or any of the employees at
15
the 22nd and Market Street store about there was
16
demolition going on next store?
17
A.
18
conversation?
19
Q.
You know what a conversation is, right?
20
A.
As far as what?
21
Q.
As far as the fact that there's
22
construction or some kind of activity going on next
23
door that's involving the demolition of the
24
building?
2
3
4
No.
As far as what do you mean by

(215) 568-2211
49
Ralph Pomponi
50
A.
Which employee?
Q.
Well, we go through all of them, if you'd
like?
A.
far as demolition that they were doing work over
there?
Q.
work over there.
A.
Well, I don't understand the question.
As
Let's start with that that they were doing
Well, it was obvious they were doing
10
something over there.
11
Q.
All right.
12
MR. WEISS:
He wanted to know did
13
you ever have any conversations with
14
Margarita or anybody else in the store that
15
something was going on in the old Hoagie
16
City building prior to the collapse, I take
17
it?
18
MR. DOYLE:
19
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
As far as -- when you
20
say conversation that there was work being
21
done?
22
anything like that.
23
24
2
3
4
Was there -- we didn't discuss

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
51
Q.
So, the whole time --
A.
In other words, they're working in the
building and I was more focused with our building,
what we were doing in there.
what was happening in the building next door.
Q.
any conversations with any employees about this?
A.
demolition next door.
I wasn't focused on
So, it's your testimony you did not have
She mentioned to me that they were doing
10
Q.
She being?
11
A.
Margarita, but that was something we were
12
aware of.
13
knew that.
14
Q.
When you say we, who are you referring to?
15
A.
Myself, the administrator, everybody in
16
Salvation Army knew that.
17
Q.
18
you about it?
19
A.
20
demolition next door prior to the collapse.
21
Q.
22
conversation?
23
A.
One conversation.
24
Q.
When was that conversation?
2
3
4
They were doing something next door, we
When did Margarita, you said Margarita told
Margarita said that they were doing
Do you recall when that -- was that one

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
A.
The day I was there.
Q.
What day was that?
A.
Prior to that.
MR. WEISS:
THE WITNESS:
52
The day before.

The day before when I
went there.
MR. WEISS:
June 4th.
MR. DOYLE:
June 4th.
- - - - -
10
BY MR. DOYLE:
11
Q.
Why were you there on June 4th?
12
A.
Okay.
13
had an issue with her cash register.
14
person who inputs the information was having
15
problems reading the journals.
16
there to see if I could fix it.
17
times it was usually a printing problem.
18
extra printers in my car.
19
that day that's why I went there.
20
the store to do that, it was probably a little
21
after opening and the register died completely.
22
So, I had an extra one in my van, which was parked
23
behind.
24
replaced it.
2
3
4
I was there on June 4th because she

And the
So, I went down

Nine out of ten
So, I had
So, when I went there

When I went into
And I then went through took that one and

And then what happened was she left

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
53
her petty cash in the other register.
go down to Gordon's Cash Register to get it
opened.
with.
to get that accomplished.
So, I had to
So, she would have petty cash to work

So, it was a real fast, quick visit trying
MR. WEISS:
So, he had to leave
Ludlow Street, take the register that was
now locked with petty cash in it, get it
opened and come back.
10
THE WITNESS:
11
It was a little
chaotic.
12
- - - - -
13
BY MR. DOYLE:
14
Q.
What time was that?
15
A.
A little after opening because usually it
16
doesn't take that long to pull out a printer and
17
put it back in.
18
Q.
What time do stores open?
19
A.
9:00.
20
Q.
Now, in this context, what was it that
21
Margarita said to you in relation to the
22
demolition?
23
A.
That's it.
24
Q.
What did she say?
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
54
A.
were aware they were doing something over there.
So, in other words, that was it.
sense of any kind of urgency or any kind of issue
or problem.
Q.
anything from the building --
A.
No.
Q.
Let me finish the question.
10
A.
I'm sorry.
11
Q.
That's fine.
12
A.
I apologize.
13
Q.
Could you hear anything from the demolition
14
next door, debris, for example, falling onto the
15
Salvation Army's roof?
16
A.
No.
17
Q.
Could you feel any vibrations --
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
-- anything in the Salvation Army building
20
that would let you know that there was demolition?
21
A.
Vaguely, no.
22
Q.
Is there any sound of any machines or
23
anything?
24
A.
2
3
4
She said they're doing demolition, but we
There was no
Was there anything -- could you hear
No.

(215) 568-2211
1
1
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
So, you come in between --
MR. WEISS:
55
Ask him if he even saw
a machine.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Did you see a machine there?
A.
No.
Q.
So, you come to change a cash register and
Margarita blurts out to you there's demolition
10
going on next door.
11
MR. WEISS:
12
Blurts out?
I don't
think --
13
- - - - -
14
BY MR. DOYLE:
15
Q.
16
saying --
17
A.
18
she's having the issue with the register and she
19
just said they're doing demolition next door.
20
wasn't like oh, there's something happening here or
21
going on here.
22
a comment.
23
Q.
Was there any context to it?
24
A.
You'd have to ask her that.
2
3
4
Well, tell me the context because you're
I'm coming in to check out the store and
It was just mentioned.
It
It was like

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
56
Q.
At the time, did it strike you as odd?
A.
No, it didn't.
Q.
Why wouldn't it?
A.
Because what do I know about demolition or
what would I be looking at even if she said to
me --
Q.
I don't want to know --
MR. WEISS:
Let him finish his
answer.
10
A.
11
It's like if I have a car and someone says where's
12
your transmission.
13
looking at, you don't know.
14
sense of urgency even if she said take a look at
15
this.
16
wouldn't know that.
It's my turn.
What would I know.
Okay.
If you don't know what you're

So, if she had any
I wouldn't know what I'm looking at.
17
- - - - -
18
BY MR. DOYLE:
19
Q.
20
me is that she's telling you a fact that seems to
21
come out of nowhere without any context to it.
22
I'm wondering did you perceive at the time a
23
context of her statement?
24
A.
2
3
4
I guess what strikes me about what you told
And
I think she was just stating that they were

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
57
doing work over there like that.
like I said, a sense of that there was any
problem.
this work next door.
weeks also.
Q.
store?
A.
She was just stating that they were doing

I hadn't seen her for several
So, maybe that's the context.
Prior to June 4th, when had you been at the
It may have been four weeks or so.
MR. WEISS:
10
He was on vacation.
THE WITNESS:
11
She didn't have,
why.
So, maybe that's
That may have been the reason.
12
- - - - -
13
BY MR. DOYLE:
14
Q.
15
the other employees, either Rich Stasiorowski or
16
any of the other employees at the Salvation Army
17
raise with you any --
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
-- concerns about the --
During your visit on June 4th, did any of
20
MR. WEISS:
21
Let him finish.
- - - - -
22
BY MR. DOYLE:
23
Q.
-- about the work going on next door?
24
A.
No.
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
58
Q.
next store?
A.
No.
Q.
On June 4th, did you have any discussion
with the workers who were doing the work next door?
A.
No.
Q.
Had you at any time prior to that had any
discussions with the employees doing the work next
door?
Anything at all about the work going on
10
A.
11
five or six weeks maybe prior to that I was in for
12
a store visit and someone, I believe, from the
13
building next door wanted to know if they can go on
14
our roof.
15
authority to approve anything like that.
16
have to call the administrator.
17
was he gave me his card and I forwarded that
18
information to Major Cranford.
19
at the time when the person came in.
20
only conversation I had with anyone.
21
Q.
22
prior?
23
A.
It was a while, yes.
24
Q.
Do you know the identity of the person you
2
3
4
Again, I'm not sure of the timetable, but
And I said to them I don't have

You'll
So, what he did
Margarita was there

That's the
You believe that was five to six weeks

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
59
were talking to?
A.
I just know he was -- I don't know.
Q.
He gave you his business card?
A.
Correct.
administrator.
Q.
I'm sorry, what did he tell you?
A.
roof.
And I forwarded it to the
Did he tell you why he wanted to have --
He just said that he wanted to go on our

And I said I can't authorize you going on
10
the roof.
11
card -- no, I said first, you need to get in touch
12
with the administrator he's the only person who can
13
approve that.
14
him touch with him, which I did.
15
Q.
16
the roof?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
At that time, did you know that he was
19
involved with the working going on next door?
20
A.
21
card.
22
know who he was.
23
wanted to go on our roof.
24
was a contractor or I don't know what he was.
2
3
4
Give me your card.
He said here's my
And he said here's my card and get
Did he tell you why he wanted to get up on
He just wanted to get on the roof.
I didn't know anything until he gave me the

I don't know who he was.
I really don't
I just know that he came in and

I can't assume that he

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
just know he came and said he wanted to have access
to go on our roof.
Q.
the working going on next door?
A.
he was no, I don't know that.
Q.
says, hey, can I get up on your roof?
A.
No.
10
Q.
You understood he had some involvement?
11
A.
Had some involvement, but what, I don't
12
specifically know.
13
Q.
14
person is?
15
A.
Huh?
16
Q.
Sitting here today, do you know now who
17
that person was?
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
Does the name Griffin Campbell ring a bell?
20
A.
Yes.
21
Q.
Do you know who that is?
22
A.
I don't know if that was the person or not,
23
I don't know.
24
Q.
2
3
4
I told him I can't do that.
You understood that he was involved with
I believe he was coming from, yes, but who
It's not every day somebody walks in and
Sitting here today, do you know who that
You understand Griffin Campbell was the

(215) 568-2211
60
Ralph Pomponi
61
contractor?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Where did you get that information from?
Where did you learn that Griffin Campbell --
A.
administrator, you know, I'm not sure.
I learned it through I guess the
MR. WEISS:
8
9
It's been in the
newspaper also.
A.
All I know is a person came in with the
10
card and wanted to get on top of it and I forwarded
11
it to the administrator.
12
things you hear and see on the news.
13
That's another issue,
- - - - -
14
BY MR. DOYLE:
15
Q.
16
if news, I'd like to know that, that's fine.
17
just want to know where you got the information.
18
A.
19
me.
20
Q.
21
today --
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
-- the person as Griffin Campbell?
24
A.
No.
2
3
4
Well, if you learned about it afterwards on
I don't know.
The name sounds familiar to
But you can't identify as you sit here

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
62
Q.
instances where you spoke with anyone involved in
the work going on next door?
A.
No.
Q.
Was there any other time where you had any
conversations with Margarita or anyone from the
Salvation Army, the employees at the store
regarding the work going on next door?
A.
No.
10
Q.
The answer is no?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
Major Cranford and other persons above you in the
14
chain of command, did you have discussions with
15
them about the demolition prior to the collapse?
16
A.
Can you be more specific?
17
Q.
You testified earlier that we were all
18
aware or we all knew that it was going on.
19
curious I think when you said we, you're referring
20
to the administration?
21
A.
22
there, yes.
23
Q.
How did you come by that information?
24
A.
I mean they knew that there was work being
2
3
4
Besides that one time, were there any other
What about your discussions with
And I'm
Yeah, that there was work being done over

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
done over there.
Q.
Who is they?
A.
Well, headquarters and the administrator.
Q.
The administrator John Cranford?
A.
Knew that there was work going on over
there, yes.
Q.
be referring to?
A.
That would be up in New York, Emmaus.
10
Q.
How do you know that new work was going on?
11
A.
How do I know?
12
Q.
Yes.
13
A.
It was obvious there was work going on.
14
Q.
Why you say it was obvious -- I mean, do
15
you know if Major Cranford had ever been to this
16
building before?
17
A.
Had he been to the store?
18
Q.
To the 22nd and Market Street?
19
A.
He had been there I believe once last year.
20
Q.
Do you know when that was?
21
A.
No, not offhand.
22
Q.
Do you think if Major Cranford was there at
23
a time when it would have been obvious to him that
24
work was going on next door?
2
3
4
When you say headquarters, where would you

(215) 568-2211
63
Ralph Pomponi
64
A.
No.
Q.
Okay.
would have been obvious?
people in headquarters never been there?
A.
was some sort of work being done in the building
next door.
this personally.
I think it was before that.

So, then how would they know it
He's never been there, if
Well, I'm saying that they knew that there
There must have been -- I don't know
MR. WEISS:
10
Don't guess.
don't know.
11
THE WITNESS:
12
No, I don't know.
- - - - -
13
BY MR. DOYLE:
14
Q.
15
that there was work going on next door?
16
17
But it was your testimony that they knew
MR. WEISS:
What was that?
- - - - -
19
(Whereupon, the requested
20
portion was read back by the court
21
reporter.)
23
24
2
3
4
Read
that back.
18
22
If you
- - - - MR. WEISS:
When you answer Mike's
questions you have to answer them

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
65
truthfully based upon your personal
knowledge.
you're assuming that they knew, then tell
Mike that.
basis that you can say that they knew, then
tell Mike that.
he's entitled to it.
THE WITNESS:
Don't assume anything.
And if
But if you've got some other
He wants the truth and
I can't assume that
they knew.
10
- - - - -
11
BY MR. DOYLE:
12
Q.
13
Cranford prior to the collapse about the fact that
14
there was working going on next door to the 22nd
15
and Market Street building?
16
A.
Yes, but I don't know when that was.
17
Q.
What was the context of that conversation?
18
Where did it take place?
19
A.
I don't remember.
20
Q.
Was it just a personal conversation between
21
you and Major Cranford or were there others there?
22
A.
23
conversations that there was work being done.
24
I'm saying to you that I don't recall every time we
2
3
4
Did you have any conversations with Major
You're asking me specifically if we had

(215) 568-2211
And
Ralph Pomponi
discussed those things or could discuss them.
Q.
But you did discuss them?
A.
That there was work going on, yes.
you're asking me when, I don't know when.
Q.
work was going on?
A.
That there was work going on, yes.
Q.
It was prior to the collapse?
A.
I believe so.
10
Q.
And tell me about the -- what is it that
11
was said to each other?
12
the conversations?
13
A.
I don't remember that.
14
Q.
You don't remember anything about the
15
conversation?
16
A.
17
mean that they were doing work next door.
18
they were taking these buildings down --
19
Q.
Did you --
20
A.
-- but the specifics of anything, no.
21
Q.
Is it anything about the concern about the
22
fact how they were going about the demolition?
23
A.
No.
24
Q.
Was there anything about any concern about
2
3
4
66
Now, if
It was obviously during the time frame that
What was the subject of
No, just that there was work being done.

That

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
67
the safety of Salvation Army employees
A.
No.
Q.
-- with regard to the fact that demolition
was going on next door?
A.
No.
Q.
Were you aware that there were
communications going on between the building owner
and the Salvation Army
A.
No.
10
Q.
-- in the days leading up to the collapse?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
You were not --
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
-- privy to those communications?
15
A.
No.
16
Q.
Major Cranford never said to you, hey,
17
these people want to get up on the roof and we're
18
not letting them?
19
A.
20
--
--
No.
MR. WEISS:
Your question implies
21
that that's in fact what occurred.
22
know from our public statements and from
23
our documents that Salvation Army never had
24
a problem with them putting plywood and a
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
You do
Ralph Pomponi
68
tarp on the roof.
MR. DOYLE:
Just to clarify for the
record, if I implied that then I withdraw
that information.
That wasn't my intent.
MR. WEISS:
Okay.
MR. DOYLE:
Let's take a
five-minute break.
MR. WEISS:
Thank you.
Fine.
- - - - -
10
11
taken.)
12
- - - - -
13
BY MR. DOYLE:
14
Q.
15
a gentleman came in to the building at some point
16
prior to the collapse --
17
A.
Yes.
18
Q.
-- and wanted to get up on the roof.
19
believe you had told him he needed to contact --
20
A.
Correct.
21
Q.
-- the administrator?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
conversations with the administrator regarding the
2
3
4
Mr. Pomponi, you had testified earlier that
And I
Thereafter, did you ever have any

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
69
guy that came in and asked you?
A.
No.
Q.
So, that never came up?
A.
No.
Q.
Is there any reason you didn't follow-up
with the administrator and say, hey, this guy came
out and wants to get up on the roof?
A.
It wasn't my responsibility.
Q.
You don't think it's important to tell them
10
about?
11
A.
12
that.
13
the administrator would have to discuss with his
14
superiors and whoever they were dealing with.
15
wasn't part of my responsibility, no.
16
Q.
In terms of --
17
A.
I just passed him the message, gave him the
18
information.
19
Q.
Gave who the information?
20
A.
John Cranford, the card.
21
Q.
So, you did tell the Major about the guy
22
coming in and asking him --
I don't have control over something like

That would be something he would have to --
23
24
2
3
4
MR. WEISS:
That
He said he gave him the
card.

(215) 568-2211
1
1
Ralph Pomponi
A.
I gave him the card.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
testimony that you gave Major Cranford --
A.
Yes.
Q.
-- this guy's card?
A.
Correct.
Q.
Did you tell him why you were giving him
I'm sorry, I thought -- so, it's your
10
the card?
11
A.
Did I tell him what?
12
Q.
What did you tell him when you gave him the
13
card?
14
A.
15
access to the roof and I couldn't authorize that.
16
And here's his card, gave him his card.
17
Q.
What did Major Cranford say to you?
18
A.
He took the card.
19
Q.
Did you say anything to him?
20
A.
That's it.
21
Q.
He didn't say anything about the fact that
22
he had dealt with this gentleman before?
23
A.
No, no, unh-unh, no.
24
Q.
Prior to the collapse, do you remember the
2
3
4
I told him somebody came him and wanted

(215) 568-2211
70
Ralph Pomponi
state of the bathroom in the Salvation Army
building?
A.
Yes.
Q.
During the demolition and prior to the
collapse, did you notice any, for example, debris
coming off the ceiling into the bathroom?
A.
During the time of the collapse, no.
Q.
Prior to the collapse?
A.
Well, there had been leaks there before
Did you ever use the bathroom?
10
which were fixed, to my understanding.
11
Q.
12
coming down?
13
A.
No, I'm not aware of that.
14
Q.
So, it never occurred to you or you never
15
recognized that debris was falling into the
16
bathroom during the demolition process?
17
A.
18
the bathroom during the demolition, no.
19
Q.
Did any of the employees ever tell you --
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
-- there was debris --
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Let me finish.
24
record.
2
3
4
Not just leaks.
I'm talking about debris
I was not aware of any debris falling in
We need to have it for the

(215) 568-2211
71
Ralph Pomponi
72
A.
I understand.
Q.
So, the question is, did any of the
employees prior to the collapse tell you that there
was debris falling from the ceiling in the bathroom
to the bathroom floor?
A.
negatively.)
Q.
So, the answer is no?
A.
No.
10
Q.
If they had given you that information,
11
what would you have done with that?
12
A.
13
the procedure, which is call the administrator or
14
if it wasn't a serious issue, fill out a form and
15
send it in and they'll send someone out to check it
16
out.
17
Q.
18
Where were you working on that day?
19
A.
20
happened on the day of the collapse, I hadn't been
21
to one of the stores in a while, the Reading store,
22
about two and a half weeks so I made a last-minute
23
decision.
24
Market to fix the register.
2
3
4
Well, I would have told them to go through
Tell me about the day of the collapse.
The day of the collapse.
Okay.
What
They were having difficulty at 22nd and

They couldn't set the

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
73
tax.
They couldn't do it.
going to go down there.
the last minute I changed my mind and I said I'll
go later.
I'm sitting up there maybe an hour and a half and I
get a phone call and I'm told that the ceiling came
down at 22nd and Market Street.
down here.
I gave them the information over the phone.

So, what I did was, I was
It was around 9:00.
At
And I went up to Reading instead.
And
You have to come
And at first I thought maybe it was a
10
ceiling tile, you know, it wasn't anything.
11
then I got a knock on the door as I'm having a
12
meeting with one of the managers and they asked me
13
to look at the TV and it was out there.
14
how I saw it.
15
there to see that.
16
Q.
17
collapse?
18
A.
19
and Mark Constable got down there.
20
to the center to make phone calls to find out where
21
our personnel were because they had been taken out
22
to various hospitals and so forth.
23
I spent that day.
24
Q.
2
3
4
And
And that's
I don't even recall how I drove down

That's my day.
Did you go down to the site after the
I couldn't get down.
The Major was down

So, I went back
So, that's how
Did you have any discussions with Major

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
74
Cranford that day after the collapse about the
collapse?
A.
Well, first of all, we were in total
shock.
We didn't know what happened.
trying to get in contact with the employees to find
out how they were doing.
where they were.
if they wanted us to see how they were to come to
their houses.
We were
That was my concern and
And we offered to meet with them
That was my few days.
10
Q.
11
attempted to contact employees?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
Do you recall who you personally contacted,
14
if anyone?
15
A.
16
Margarita.
17
able to see how Louis and Rodney Geddis, we went to
18
their houses.
19
Q.
When you say we who are you referring?
20
A.
Me and the Major, we both went to see them.
21
Q.
In your conversation with Richard
22
Stasiorowski after the collapse, was there any
23
discussion about why this happened or you know --
24
A.
2
3
4
So, in the days after the collapse, you
Yeah, I spoke with Richard.

I spoke with Louis.
I spoke with
In fact, we were
We don't know why it happened.

(215) 568-2211
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75
Q.
Tell me about that conversation then.
A.
I'm trying to recall because he actually
pulled a couple people out of the debris.
I think, he was the one who told us that Kimberly
had passed away.
my conversation was to find out how he was or how
he was doing.
Q.
have been prevented?
And he,
That was our conversation.
And
Was there any discussion of how this might
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
What about in your discussion with
12
Margarita?
13
A.
14
to get in contact with her so we could come visit
15
and see how she was doing.
16
conversation.
17
Q.
So, there was no substantive discussion?
18
A.
I haven't spoke to her since.
19
Q.
What about Louis and Rodney, what do you
20
recall about those conversations?
21
A.
Well, we went to visit them.
22
Q.
Okay.
23
A.
They were kind of in a state of shock, but
24
we were just trying to comfort them.
2
3
4
At a time like that, no.
Margarita's conversation was we were trying
That was the
We were just

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
trying to -- you know the administrators, I don't
know if you're aware of this or not, are pastors.
So, we were there for them to help them to get
through this.
Q.
Rodney about how this might have been prevented?
A.
No.
Q.
Did you ever talk with a gentleman named
Jack Higgins?
Was there any conversation with Louis or
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
Were you aware that a few, maybe a week or
14
two or three before the collapse, the Salvation
15
Army had an architect go out and look at the
16
Salvation Army building at 22nd and Market?
17
A.
No.
18
Q.
Have you ever talked with a gentleman named
19
Plato Marinakos?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Do you know who that is?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
Did you ever have any conversations with
24
anyone form the Salvation Army after the collapse
2
3
4
Who's that?
So, you don't know who that is?

(215) 568-2211
76
Ralph Pomponi
77
about steps that could have been taken to prevent
this from happening?
A.
No.
Q.
Did you have any conversations with Major
Cranford after the collapse about how the collapse
occurred?
A.
How it occurred?
Q.
Yes.
A.
No.
10
Q.
Did you have any conversations after the
11
collapse with Major Cranford about safety-related
12
issues for the employees at the 22nd and Market
13
Street building?
14
A.
No.
15
- - - - -
16
17
marked as Government Exhibit-J for
18
19
- - - - -
20
BY MR. DOYLE:
21
Q.
22
Government Exhibit-J is obviously a photograph of
23
the demolition going on at 2138, 2136 Market.
24
you agree with that?
2
3
4
I'm showing you Government Exhibit-J.

(215) 568-2211
Now,
Do
Ralph Pomponi
MR. WEISS:
THE WITNESS:
78
Well, it is what it is.

It is what it is,
yeah.
MR. DOYLE:
Okay.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
building --
A.
Had you ever seen the condition of the
No.
10
MR. WEISS:
11
Let him finish his
question.
12
THE WITNESS:
13
I'm sorry.
- - - - -
14
BY MR. DOYLE:
15
Q.
16
Street as depicted in this photograph?
17
A.
The answer is no.
18
Q.
I believe you testified earlier that you
19
never saw this?
20
yellow heavy piece of heavy machinery.
21
Caterpillar, do you see that?
22
A.
No.
23
Q.
You don't see the photograph?
24
A.
Yeah, I see it in the --
2
3
4
The condition of the 2136, 2138 Market
You see in the photograph the

The

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
79
Q.
So, you never saw that before the collapse?
A.
No.
Q.
You never talked to the operator of it then
I take it?
A.
No.
Q.
The day before the collapse when you were
at the facility, did you notice the party wall that
was still standing between the building that was
being demolished and the Thrift Store shop?
10
A.
11
negatively.)
12
Q.
You didn't notice it?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
So, you didn't go out --
15
MR. WEISS:
16
I'll shorten this.
17
front when he brought back the register --
Just so you appreciate,

He pulled up to the
18
MR. DOYLE:
19
facts, I prefer that he --
20
MR. WEISS:
21
If there's going to be
Explain how you did
that.
22
THE WITNESS:
23
MR. WEISS:
24
2
3
4
I told him that.

I don't think he got
it.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
back in the front.
A.
(indicating.)
Q.
Exhibit-J.
A.
10
11
12
13
14
80
I didn't hear the part about when you came
When I came back, I pulled here,

There was nothing here.
Let me have you circle in Government
Do you have a picture of the store, just
the store itself?

MR. DOYLE:
Let's mark this as
Government Exhibit-K.
15
marked as Government Exhibit-K for
16
17
- - - - -
18
MR. WEISS:
Let me see it.
19
know if this shows it or not.
20
I don't think it does.
21
I don't
Let's see.
You know what, if I can make a
22
suggestion to you, Mike, you had a picture
23
here that I think obviously because I've
24
spoken to him about this and I want him to
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
be able to explain it to you.
probably show you on the diagram.
3
4
81
He can
MR. DOYLE:
So, Government-G, as in
MR. WEISS:
Show him what you did
Gary.
5
6
when you arrived using, if it's okay with
Mike, using that diagram, show him what
happened on that.
THE WITNESS:
10
Well, what
happened --
11
- - - - -
12
BY MR. DOYLE:
13
Q.
Let me give you a red pen to mark the area.
14
A.
Well, when I came back I pulled up in front
15
of the store.
16
MR. WEISS:
17
it's accurate.
18
Mark it carefully so
That's fine.
THE WITNESS:
It may have been
19
where the door, a little passed the door,
20
let's say.
21
- - - - -
22
BY MR. DOYLE:
23
Q.
24
building was on the corner?
2
3
4
So, as I understand the door of the

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
82
A.
that, yes.
money to Margarita and drove off.
Q.
Outside the building or inside?
A.
Yeah, outside.
Correct.
So, I pulled in a little passed
And I handed the register with the
MR. WEISS:
Tell him how you drove
off and what you were -- he wants to know
did you see what was going on because --
let me finish.
10
11
Did you see what was going
on at 2138, 2136 as you pulled away?

THE WITNESS:
No.
You know why?
12
Because I have to check out the traffic
13
coming this way.
14
So, as I gave her the register and looking
15
and I drove off.
16
So, I wasn't looking.
So, I never saw that.
MR. WEISS:
But he did not notice
17
an escavator at that point.
18
THE WITNESS:
19
MR. WEISS:
No.
I asked him that
20
question.
21
impression he only went in the back door,
22
but he did go in the front door because we
23
want to make a full disclosure here.
24
this occasion, but then he had to pull into
2
3
4
I thought you were under the

(215) 568-2211
On
Ralph Pomponi
83
the traffic on Market Street, he didn't
really have the chance to watch to the
right side because the traffic is all to
the left.
THE WITNESS:
MR. DOYLE:
Coming the other way.

Okay.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Are you aware of any discussions that Major
10
Cranford and/or other management level Salvation
11
Army people had prior to the collapse about the
12
possibility of shutting down the store for a couple
13
of weeks until the demolition could run its course?
14
A.
No.
15
Q.
That idea never came up?
16
A.
17
negatively.)
18
MR. WEISS:
19
that.
20
He can't say it ever came up.

THE WITNESS:
21
That's what I'm
trying to say, no, I'm not aware of that.
22
- - - - -
23
BY MR. DOYLE:
24
Q.
2
3
4
He's not aware of
Is that an idea that you thought of at all

(215) 568-2211
1
1
Ralph Pomponi
in the time leading up to the collapse?
2
3
MR. WEISS:
A.
Prior.
No.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
itself including Margarita and Richard come to you
and say we have concerns about what's going on next
door, something needs to be done to protect our
Did any of the employees at the store
10
safety?
11
A.
No.
12
Q.
When you learned that the collapse
13
occurred, were you surprised?
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
All right.
16
procedure for reporting safety problems at the
17
store would be to fill out a form?
18
A.
Maintenance problems.
19
Q.
I'm sorry?
20
A.
21
Q.
22
23
24
2
3
4
Nothing at all like that?
You testified earlier that the
MR. WEISS:
Safety concerns would
be a call to the administrator.

- - - - -

(215) 568-2211
84
Ralph Pomponi
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
include?
problem, right?
A.
Right.
Q.
What else would maintenance encompass?
A.
Anything that dealt with the maintenance of
the building, any problems or issues or if there
were no lights, if there were no air-conditioning,
So, maintenance issues, what would that

We gave an example of an electrical
10
the heat, anything to that nature.
11
Q.
12
collapse in 2013 maintenance forms of that sort had
13
been filled out by the personal at the 22nd and
14
Market Street store and sent to the -- where are
15
they sent to.
16
A.
17
up to the building and on the maintenance request
18
form it has maintenance.
19
responsible will take the form and go to the
20
administrator and they would go from there.
21
Q.
22
filled out for that store, 22nd and Market in 2013?
23
A.
24
have to fill out.
2
3
4
Do you know at any time prior to the
They're put in the paperwork and it's sent
So, the person who is
Are you aware of any such forms having been
Again, that would be something they would

Am I aware of any given time,

(215) 568-2211
85
Ralph Pomponi
no.
Q.
Did you --
MR. WEISS:
86
Keep in mind that he
does not typically deal with that.
THE WITNESS:
So, I wouldn't know.
I don't deal with it.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
You might be aware of just a general
10
conversation with --
11
A.
12
would be able to give you that information.
13
Q.
14
collapse, any maintenance forms with respect to
15
that building?
16
A.
Myself, no.
17
Q.
Could you have?
18
A.
The managers are supposed to do that.
19
wouldn't fill out a form for something like that.
20
That's the chain of command.
21
Q.
22
building and you saw this is a maintenance issue,
23
how would you --
24
A.
2
3
4
Again, you would have to speak with -- they
Had you ever filled out, prior to the
That's how it works.
I mean if you were walking through the
Then I would direct it to the manager to

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
fill it out and send it in.
Q.
2013?
A.
No.
Q.
Did anyone from Major Cranford or above you
in the chain of command ever direct you in the time
leading up to the collapse to instruct the
personnel at 22nd and Market, the employees at that
store to be aware of what's going on next door and
Do you recall having done that at all in
10
report any issues --
11
A.
Not to my knowledge.
12
Q.
-- back to you or up the chain of command?
13
A.
Not to my knowledge.
14
Q.
If the management wanted to do that, would
15
that have been the appropriate way of conveying
16
that information?
17
MR. WEISS:
18
I object.
- - - - -
19
BY MR. DOYLE:
20
Q.
Let me ask the question a different way.
21
If you know from your experience of
22
17 years in your position, if the management wanted
23
to convey to the personnel at 22nd and Market
24
Street the employees at that store to be on the
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
87
Ralph Pomponi
88
lookout for safety concerns due to the fact that
there is demolition going on next door, what would
be the procedure that would be used to convey that
information?
A.
Major may call them directly or he may ask me.
I think he would, I can't speak for him, but he
would handle that, he would call.
Q.
Well, they may do that at a meeting or the

But
Do you know if the Major ever made any such
10
call to Margarita or Richard Stasiorowski?
11
A.
Not to my knowledge, no.
12
Q.
You referenced meetings, I think at the
13
beginning of your testimony you talked about
14
periodic manager meetings.
15
was the last manager's meeting prior to the
16
collapse?
17
A.
I'm not sure.
18
Q.
Do you keep meeting minutes of those?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
You do?
21
A.
Yes.
22
Q.
Who keeps those minutes?
23
A.
The assistant to the administrator's wife.
24
Q.
Is the assistant the administrator's wife
2
3
4
Do you remember when
I'd have to look that up.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
89
or is it the assistant to the administrator's wife?
A.
correct myself.
part from the stores.
at the store part of it, no there's no one keeping
minutes for that.
Q.
So, what are minutes kept of?
A.
Well, if we have issues at the center.
they'll bring in all the supervisors that work at
10
the center, myself being the stores, maintenance,
11
program, different areas.
12
for that.
13
we'll just have the handouts and we'll give it out
14
to the supervisors.
15
Q.
16
again just so it's clear for the record.
17
manager meetings that you have periodically, are
18
there minutes kept of those meetings?
19
A.
There may be minutes kept.
20
Q.
Now, if there are minutes kept, who would
21
keep them?
22
A.
23
for that.
24
Q.
2
3
4
I'm sorry, if we have a -- no, let me

We have meetings with staff also a
So, there's no one keeping
So,
So, they'll have minutes
But when we have the manager's meetings
So, just to be clear, I'll ask the question

These
Mark Constable may have kept the minutes
Before each meeting of that sort, these

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
90
weekly manager's meeting --
A.
Monthly.
Q.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to testify for
you.
These periodic manager's meetings,
do you circulate an agenda to everyone about here's
what the meeting is about?
A.
affirmatively.)
10
Q.
You have to answer.
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
Well, myself, Mark Constable and it can be
14
the administrator, the Major does.
15
handle different areas that we handle to address
16
those issues at the meetings.
17
Q.
18
show what the agenda is, who keeps those?
19
A.
20
we don't keep them.
21
need it.
22
Q.
23
Margarita, are they allowed to put an item on the
24
meeting agenda?
2
3
4
Who creates the agenda?
So, we'll
And if I wanted to see those documents that
Mark Constable may have some of them, but

I mean I may have some if you
Are the store supervisors, people like

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
91
A.
meetings if there are some issues and problems that
are reoccurring all the time and we just want to
make sure that everybody is on the same page.
we'll discuss the sales for the month.
discuss maybe that there's holidays, how we're
going to handle sales, how to be more productive
and things of that nature.
Q.
No.
In other words, we'll have the
So,
We'll
Is employee safety ever a topic of these
10
meetings?
11
A.
12
the meeting.
13
Q.
14
employee safety as a topic?
15
A.
16
stores, not to have it cluttered so people don't
17
get injured and things like that, yes, we'll talk
18
about it.
19
I don't recall the last time that was in

No, not within the last year.
Prior to the last year, had there been
Well, you know, how to handle situations in
MR. WEISS:
You'll see in the
20
calendar how to lift, not to trip,
21
different things like that in the calendar
22
there's things of that throughout the
23
calendar.
24
meetings at least safety issues are
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
So, those are brought at
Ralph Pomponi
92
related --
THE WITNESS:
Those are given out
every year.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Mr. Weiss is talking about calendars.
A.
Uh-huh.
Q.
Do you know what he's referring to?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
Tell me what he's referring to?
12
A.
It's a safety calendar that we get once a
13
year.
14
other words, let's say, make sure that the fire
15
extinguishers are up to date or make sure that
16
things are locked in the front or maybe have a fire
17
drill or something of that nature.
18
with the employees concerning whatever it would say
19
on a particular day and how to do that.
20
Q.
Where do you get the calendars from?
21
A.
I believe they come from headquarters.
22
Q.
Does headquarters develop the calendars?
23
Is that an outside service?
24
A.
2
3
4
Tell me about, do you understand what
And it gives you days when you should -- in
Have meetings
I'm not sure.

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
93
Q.
calendars to the store managers?
A.
with the managers.
and they're supposed to follow through what we're
telling them.
Q.
22nd and Market Street store prior to the collapse?
A.
What is your role in distributing the
I give them out personally and I discuss it

They're supposed to be posted
Do you know whether it was posted at the
I'm not sure, but they were all given
10
calendars.
11
Q.
12
calendar?
13
A.
No.
14
Q.
Do you recall seeing or is it your
15
testimony that you do not recall seeing the
16
calendar posted at the 22nd and Market Street
17
store?
18
A.
19
would have been posted on a pegboard somewhere.
20
Q.
21
informed about the calendar?
22
A.
23
correct.
24
Q.
2
3
4
Do you know when you gave Margarita her
I don't recall seeing it, no.
I mean it
And are the employees supposed to be
The manager is supposed to inform, yes,
How does a manager know that she is

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
supposed to inform the employees?
A.
This is -- we don't have a calendar, do we?
94
Because I have the conversations with her.
MR. WEISS:
I do.
A.
specifically what to do on a particular day.
they're instructed to do that with the employees.
But we look at the calendar it tells us
8
9
And
10
Q.
11
where you say here's the calendar?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
You're supposed to discuss this --
14
A.
Yes.
15
Q.
-- with the employees?
16
A.
Correct.
17
Q.
Is that right?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Do you recall when that conversation took
20
place?
21
A.
22
negatively.)
23
Q.
You have to say it again.
24
A.
No.
2
3
4
So, you have a conversation with Margarita

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
MR. DOYLE:
95
Let's take another
break.
minutes worth of questions and we'll wrap
it up.
I think we have only ten more
So, let's take, like, ten minutes.

THE WITNESS:
Okay.
- - - - -
taken.)
- - - - -
10
MR. DOYLE:
11
Back on the record.
- - - - -
12
BY MR. DOYLE:
13
Q.
Just a few follow-up questions.
14
A.
Sure.
15
Q.
Now, who at the store level at the thrift
16
stores including the 22nd and Market Street, who
17
would be responsible at that level for the safety
18
of the employees?
19
A.
Well, the store manager.
20
Q.
So, for the 22nd and Market Street it would
21
be Margarita; is that correct?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Do you know if Margarita ever receives OSHA
24
related training?
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
96
A.
No.
Q.
No, you don't know or no, she does not?
A.
No, she does not.
Q.
We talked earlier about these calendars
that are distributed to the stores.
understand they come from headquarters you believe?
A.
I believe so.
Q.
Okay.
A.
How?
10
Q.
Yes.
11
A.
They're given to me by the administrator.
12
Q.
Does the administrator give you any
13
instructions on what to do with them?
14
A.
15
and instruct them to follow it.
16
Q.
17
posted?
18
A.
What do I do?
19
Q.
Yes.
20
A.
What do you mean?
21
Q.
I believe you testified earlier that you
22
don't recall seeing --
23
A.
24
the stores where I've seen it if I'm walking by the
2
3
4
And as I
And how do you personally get them?
Give them out and make sure they're posted
And what do you do to make sure they're
No, I don't because, you know, I've gone in

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
97
area where they have their clipboard then I'll see
it.
wouldn't notice it, no.
But if I'm not looking for that, then I
MR. WEISS:
He's not saying it
wasn't posted.
remember if it was or wasn't.
He's saying he doesn't
THE WITNESS:
I don't remember if
it was or wasn't.
- - - - -
10
BY MR. DOYLE:
11
Q.
12
whereby you walk around and look at the store and
13
make sure that the calendar is posted?
14
A.
You mean to check it?
15
Q.
To make sure that it's posted.
16
A.
You know, again, I use the -- I would hope
17
that the managers post the information that we give
18
them.
19
the calendar had I checked each single store to
20
make sure they were up.
21
didn't.
22
Q.
23
decided that they weren't going to post it, hang
24
the calendar up?
2
3
4
Okay.
Do you have any process in place
Now, if you're asking me after I give them
And the answer is no, I
What would you do if a store manager

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
MR. WEISS:
A.
98
And he was aware of it?
And I was aware of it?
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Yes.
A.
I would make sure that they would put it
up.
Q.
How would you go about doing that?
A.
Tell them to put it up.
10
Q.
Had you ever had to do that for any of the
11
store managers?
12
A.
13
where they didn't have it posted and I was aware of
14
it and I told them.
15
and they had it in the drawer and I told them to
16
make sure they posted it.
17
Q.
Do you remember when that was?
18
A.
When?
19
Q.
Yes.
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Do you remember which store it was?
22
A.
23
negatively.)
24
Q.
2
3
4
I'm trying to think.
There was an occasion
When I asked them where it was
No?

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
A.
right one.
Q.
Was it the 22nd and Market?
A.
No.
Q.
It was not?
A.
No.
Q.
Do the store managers like Margarita, do
they get performance evaluations?
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
How often are they evaluated?
11
A.
Yearly.
12
Q.
Was that a written evaluation?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Who completes the evaluation?
15
A.
I do.
16
Q.
Do you get input from anyone or is it just
17
your evaluation?
18
A.
19
evaluation.
20
I go over their pluses and minuses, what they can
21
do to do their job better and some of the things
22
that they're weak on.
23
Q.
24
to the collapse?
2
3
4
I don't want to say because if it's not the
Input from whom?
It's a manager's
We have a form, fill out the form and
Had you done one at all for Margarita prior

(215) 568-2211
99
Ralph Pomponi
100
A.
Yeah, I would believe so.
Q.
Do you know when?
A.
No.
Q.
When do you typically do the --
A.
On their anniversary.
MR. WEISS:
She's been there for
seven months.
THE WITNESS:
Again, Margarita's
been there off and on three times.
She
10
left to pursue another job.
11
wanted to come back and we hired her back.
12
So, when you're asking me questions when
13
all this was, I don't know specifically.
14
would have to look it up.
15
check her file.
16
And then she
I would have to
- - - - -
17
BY MR. DOYLE:
18
Q.
19
evaluation for Margarita during the time that she
20
was store manager for 22nd and Market?
21
A.
I don't remember.
22
Q.
Do you keep these evaluations?
23
A.
We have them on file, yes.
24
Q.
Do the store managers get to see their
2
3
4
Do you think that you did a performance

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
101
individual evaluations?
A.
Absolutely, sure.
Q.
Do you sit down and discuss with them?
A.
Yes.
Q.
Is employee safety one of the things that
they're evaluated on?
A.
me take that back.
far as keeping the work area clean and neat.
That is on the evaluation, no.
Well, let
There is a part on the form as

So,
10
that is on there.
11
that your work area, how you handle your work
12
area.
13
making sure your store is clean, neat, organized
14
and not, say, a hazard to anyone.
15
extent.
16
Q.
17
employees at the store as it relates to employee
18
safety?
19
That is on there to make sure
So, if it's a store manager that would be
That's the
What about the disciplinary policy for
First of all -MR. WEISS:
I really am troubled by
20
all this as what this has to do with the
21
collapse, but I'm going to allow you to
22
finish so we can get this done.
23
don't understand why you're putting the
24
Salvation Army through this.
2
3
4
But I just
I really

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
102
don't.
- - - - -
BY MR. DOYLE:
Q.
Do you understand the question?
A.
No.
MR. DOYLE:
Can you read it back?
- - - - -
(Whereupon, the requested
portion was read back by the court
10
reporter.)
11
- - - - -
12
BY MR. DOYLE:
13
Q.
14
there a policy, a disciplinary policy?
15
A.
If someone did?
16
Q.
Was acting unsafely.
17
violence would be an issue, for example, if
18
there's --
19
A.
Violence?
20
Q.
Yes.
21
employees.
22
A.
Oh, that would be grounds for termination.
23
Q.
So, how would that work?
24
responsible for doing the terminating?
2
3
4
So, the first question related to that, is
Let's say work place
If there's fighting going on among
Who would be

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
103
A.
the store, the manager would do that.
Q.
Okay.
A.
Okay.
that would beneath him.
Q.
stacking, what if someone habitually stacks things
so high that it's a hazard that it could fall on
top of somebody and the person just keeps doing
Well, it depends.
If it was employees in
And if the manager was having --
What about a lesser unsafe act like
10
that?
11
A.
Oh, then they would be written up for that.
12
Q.
That's what I'm asking.
13
A.
Absolutely, sure.
14
Q.
So, who does the writing up?
15
A.
If it was a manager, then I would.
16
Q.
Let's start with an employee.
17
A.
Well, the manager would write up the
18
employee for not following their instructions.
19
Q.
Okay.
20
A.
So, if I go into a store and I see that
21
continuously, now I'm on the manager.
22
manager gets documented that they're not following
23
the instructions to make sure that that's taken
24
care of.
2
3
4
If they continue, yeah.
So, now the

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
Q.
manager?
A.
4
5
104
So, you're the one who would discipline the
Yes.
MR. DOYLE:
Okay.
Those are all
the questions I have for you today.
I appreciate you coming down here.
Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS:
MR. DOYLE:
10
13
14
15
Nice meeting you.
appreciate your time.
11
12
Nice meeting you.
- - - - (Whereupon, the witness was

excused.)
- - - - (Whereupon, this deposition was
16
concluded at 11:18 a.m.)
17
- - - - -
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
Ralph Pomponi
C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3
I hereby certify that the proceedings,
evidence and objections noted, are contained fully
and accurately in the notes taken by me on the
hearing of this matter, and that this copy is a
correct transcript of the same.
8
9
10
11
12
______________________________
13
MICHELLE M. TATE
COURT REPORTER
14
NOTARY PUBLIC
15
16
17
18
19
20
(The foregoing certification of this
21
transcript does not apply to any reproduction of
22
the same by any means unless under the direct
23
control and/or supervision of the certifying
24
reporter.)
2
3
4

(215) 568-2211
105

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1

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

THE SALVATION ARMY:

TUESDAY, AUGUST 6, 2013

Oral deposition of RALPH

POMPONI, taken pursuant to notice at Marshall,

Dennehey, Warner, Coleman & Goggin, 2000 Market

Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, commencing at

9:00 a.m., on the above date, before Michelle M.

Tate, a Court Reporter and a Notary Public of the

DelCASALE, CASEY, MARTIN & MANCHELLO

230 SOUTH BROAD STREET - SUITE 605

170 South Independence Mall West

The Curtis Center

Counsel for the United States Government

BY: ERIC A. WEISS, ESQUIRE

2000 Market Street

Counsel for The Salvation Army

SARAH CARLE, Compliance Officer

215-597-4955 ext. 239

DelCasale, Casey, Martin & Manchello

DelCasale, Casey, Martin & Manchello

RALPH POMPONI, after having

been first duly sworn, was examined and

the record and spell your last name?

It's Ralph Pomponi, P-O-M-P-O-N-I.

Mr. Pomponi, my name is Michael Doyle.

the attorney with the United States Department of

Sir, would you please state your name for

We're here today to have you answer

questions under oath with regard to OSHA Inspection

911 711 pursuant to the Secretary of Labor's

authority under section 8B of the Occupation Safety

and Health Act.

Have you ever testified under oath

You've never been deposed or testified at a

lawsuit or something, yes.

Oh, at a trial, several years ago, civil

DelCasale, Casey, Martin & Manchello

You were a witness at that trial?

You were a juror member.

Let me just explain to you

how this will work today.

questions and your answers will be recorded by the

the day what we hope to have is a clean record of

We have a court reporter

I will be asking you questions.

And it's important at the end of

first thing I will ask is you have to give a yes or

no answer or a verbal answer rather than a nod of

the head or shake of the head.

So, in order to have that the

Also, if you don't understand any of my

questions, just say so and I'll try to ask a more

The other thing is, please wait for my

question to be done and then give your answer.

I'll do my best to wait for you to give a full and

complete answer before I ask the next question.

DelCasale, Casey, Martin & Manchello

reason, just let me know.

If you need to take a break for any

Before we begin, is there any reason you

would not be able to answer my questions today

fully and truthfully?