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Achieve Tough Targets

Video Transcript

John Brooker
Yes! And

an

degree of culture and behaviour

John

Pelton,

change. It was a quite explicit

CH2M

HILL

statement that they wanted the

Consultants. John is now the

output from the programme to act

Prog ramme Partner Director of

as a signpost for change in the rail

the C rossrail Project in London.

and

In

industry.

This

is

the

interview
MBE,

On using Solution
Focus to achieve a
tough target and
resolve a difficult
challenge.

Le arn Mo re

transcript

with
of

this interview,

of

we discuss

construction

with John the benefits of using

JOHN BROOKER: What made the

the Solution Focus approach on

programme challenging?

the

Efficiency C halleng e

JOHN PELTON: Well, 1.5 billion is

Prog ramme, a prog ramme that

quite an eye-watering target to start

he headed until 2 01 4.

with, but actually, if you save a

HS2 will be Europes larg est

small amount an awful lot, its

construction project once it has

surprising how

received final approval.

generate large savings on a big

Yes!

HS2

And

facilitated

thirteen

programme.

quickly you can

In

the

programme

workshops for the programme with

itself, we started with 16 billion,

a Solution Focused approach. We

so the scale of the money shouldnt

have slightly edited the wording for

be over awing.

clarity and have added emphasis to

I think what was really challenging

highlight the value of SF.].

was the fact that the team that I

JOHN BROOKER: John, what was

was part of, and the team that I led,

the target you had to achieve on

they

your programme?

construction

industry,

the

JOHN PELTON: HS2 set up the

engineering

industry,

the

Efficiency Challenge Programme in

infrastructure industry can be to

C o ntac t Us

September 2012, with the aim of

change How resistant it can be to

Speak: +44 20 8869 9990

finding 1.5 billion savings from the

new ideas, and how difficult it can

Write: hi@yesand.eu

first phase of HS2 from London to

be

Read: www.yesand.eu

Birmingham. The target was 1.5

aversion, but also risk aversion.

If you would like to learn more

about using Solution Focus,
please visit our website and
read our articles. If you are
interested in using Solution
Focus in your organisation to
achieve tough targets or tackle
difficult
challenges,
please
contact John Brooker.

billion, but implicit in that was a

infrastructure

This

knew

to

how

overcome

is

an

resistant

both

industry

the

change

where

if

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3
5

to the HS2 team, we pulled in

problem an enormous gap. In

people from across government,

some of the workshops, you could

from

physically

across

the industry,

people can die. So the tendency is

to add a bit because it makes you
safer, but also the tendency is not
to save because it might be more
efficient.
So aversion to risk, aversion to
change, and aversion to anything
new innovation, anything like that
is rife. So really the challenge, if
you like, was the mindset, the
behaviours, of people that were
involved in the construction.
JOHN BROOKER: What led you to
pursue the Solution Focus approach
in workshops?
JOHN PELTON: Well, its fair to say
that we did try a number of ways of
tackling this. It was very clear to us
from the start that we had to do
something different; we couldnt
just sit round the table eyeballing
each other with arms folded in the
grumpy way that many engineers
and their ilk often do in these sorts
of situations. That simply wasnt
going to work.
We also had to engage I say had
to engage, we decided to engage
very widely. So we didnt just stick

people

being

overcome by the enormity of what it

across all the interest groups, and

was they were facing, and it was

spent the first three months just

just simply not delivering the right

getting

answers.

people

together,

and

views,

their

So the beauty of Solution Focus is,

their

it starts with what are you trying to

their

opinions, their ideas, and

doesnt work, large numbers of

see

across the not for profits, from

garnering

something collapses, falls down, or

from

commitment.

deliver, and it made people think

So, we needed a vehicle that would

very positively about where they

allow us to do that in a way that

were going and the stage they were

didnt

feel

at. HS2 is a very visionary piece of

uncomfortable, or that they were

infrastructure; it has to be by its

being

very nature. You

make

anyone

oppressed,

or

overly

will have the

influenced. It had to be open, and it

fastest trains in the world on it, so

had to be collaborative.

the problems are enormous. You

So we tried a number of, what I

can`t just do it the way the last one

suppose youd loosely bracket as

was

creative thinking techniques and, to

something

be honest, some of them worked

visionary and the future perfect

quite well, some of them not so

state was a great place to start.

well. But the one that consistently

The next thing was, that in the way

worked better was anything done

that the Solution Focus process

with a Solution Focus, and we

works, its very good at breaking

opted to use it more systematically

barriers.

through the rest of the programme.

baggage to the workshop, or to the

JOHN BROOKER: What value did

discussion, or to the meeting or

the

approach

forum, whatever it is. Everyone

provide? What was the essence of

expect to put their baggage on the

its value?

table

JOHN PELTON: The first aspect,

position behind it.

which was very attractive actually,

Actually,

is that almost all of the normal

Focus

ways that people in this industry

matter if they`re carrying their

get together to think about things

baggage or not, because you very

start with, so whats the problem?

quickly forget about it, and look

And sometimes they do a gap

beyond

analysis, and if you do a gap

different, and work back from the

analysis

future state. It meant that people,

Solution

and

Focus

ask

whats

the

done;

you`ve

got

different.

Everyone

and

build

the

works,

it

brings

the

it

doesn`t

really

the

their

defensive

that

into

do

So

way

and

some

to

Solution
really

something

problem on something as big as

despite

desperate

HS2, you end up with a very big

attempts to keep the baggage in the

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7
8

about how much they enjoyed doing

expected.

it. Now, I dont know how often

JOHN BROOKER: Did you see any

other people from other teams get

benefit in terms of your team,

together later, and say how much

because you had a small team of

they enjoyed doing it, but it was the

consultants?

fact that it was different, it was

JOHN PELTON: All of them of

refreshing

course

the

they did pull through. Not all, you

industry, so we had varying degrees

know, one notable exception still

of

isnt

were

drawn

engagement,

from

commitment,

and

really

challenging,

convinced,

and

that

still

support, understanding. I think Id

prefers to do it the way he did it

game, weren`t able to do it; so it

like to be able to say that they went

before; you cant change all the

was a great leveller. That was very

through a life transition, and they

people all the time.

valuable, not just for dealing with

came out of it different afterwards.

JOHN BROOKER: Absolutely. So

the people inside HS2, but for

The reality is that they pretty much

quite a difficult question, but did

bringing people in from other parts

brought the set of characteristics in

any aspect of the SF workshop

of the industry. So the benefits for

that they took away in the end.

surprise you?

collaboration were significant.

What was interesting was that not

JOHN PELTON: I think, I mean the

one of them backed out or refused;

thing

they all went with it, they played the

about some of these things, but

game; they, I think, could see the

particularly SF and the way it was

value.

some

done, was just how willing and

philistines, and I guess if you drew

engaged and collaborative people

a curve showing age against extent

were when they did it. And you

of being a philistine, the older were

could hardly hear yourself think.

more reluctant. And you got this

The noise, the enthusiasm, the

sort of challenge of, Well, I got to

buzz, was brilliant. So I think that

where I am because I did it the way it

surprised me. The outputs, the

was done before; now you want me to

outcomes, etcetera would not have

do something different, and you want

surprised me, because I think Im

me to tell you its better. Thats not

convinced. What surprised me was

an easy game to play.

how much people picked it up and

The other aspect was, we used

Solution Focus in a particular way;
we tried to engage people early in a
particular line of thought, or a line
of

analysis,

and

used

Solution

Focus in the beginning to set the

conditions, and get as many people
involved

at

the

beginning

as

possible. Of course the benefit and

value of that was that when they
then came to doing the work that
had to follow, they`d pretty much
done it. And so they go away and do
their writing, or their drawing, or

difficult areas, faster than I had

There

their design, whatever it was, and

What

nobody

afterwards,

really

critiqued

it

too

was

were

still

that

interesting

was

that

ran

when

dust

had

introduced to it.

the

with

always

it

surprises

once

theyd

me

been

viciously, because they`d all been

settled, and everything had finished,

JOHN BROOKER: Thank you. Was it

there at the beginning to design it.

was

worth the cost and time that your

They were all supporting each other

because we were seen as doing

team invested?

and working with each other. So

things

JOHN

another

really

generated a Stockholm complex

difficult question. Theres a harder

probably hadn`t expected is that it

around it. And so the team pulled

question, which was did we actually

speeded the thing up, and we went

together, and I still get a couple of

meet the target wed been set? And

through some really quite tricky,

them catch me for a coffee, and talk

the answer is, sort of.

value

that

we

because

it

differently,

was
we

different,
almost

PELTON:

Thats

very

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0

scale of project, youd probably not

very

similar

programme

be surprised by that. So it was very,

architecture, it took nearly eight

very busy. We couldnt afford to

months, and we know that they also

mess around. We had a lot of

work shopped, but we know that

people to get involved very quickly

they did it in a more traditional way.

from a standing start, who had not

It meant we had activities like that

all worked together before, and

done really very quickly, people

generate output. And actually, it

were very engaged, and of course

worked.

everyone in the organisation was

that

involved, so they all knew about

illustrates it, was the vision and

them (the strategic themes). So

strategic themes piece. The vision,

when it came to the communication

we got the executive committee to

strategy (it was simpler) they

set; that was a leadership issue and

already knew. So it doubled up. I

after a bit of discussion they agreed

think the value is manifest; it was

on a vision, and that was great.

really

What we then did was, we used the

actually, we persuaded a lot of

Solution Focus technique, which

other people that Solution Focus

was worked up by us as amateurs in

was a good way of thinking, too, so

the team, and then complemented

hopefully that value will spread.

by the professionals, John Brooker

JOHN BROOKER: Finally, will you

and his team who came in later to

continue with the SF approach on

add some shine to the thing.

future projects?

adoption all 100%, so everyone

We got people involved from the tea

JOHN PELTON: No question, no

would take it up and do everything

boy and the people at the bottom of

question. I mean, I enjoy it, and I

wed said, then the actual total

the organisational pile, right up to

can see so many potential uses for

savings potential was 1.9 billion. So

the senior executives, sometimes in

it. I think the only limitation is that

we were clear. But if you then

the same group. And we used

every time I seem to come up

applied a pragmatic probability, it

Solution Focus through a series of

against

dropped to about 1.3, 1.4 billion,

workshops to build up their views

another crowd of people that its

although it was rising as people

on what the strategic themes should

the right thing to do. And you know,

began to become convinced.

be for HS2 Phase One. We came out

even

of the end with eight themes, in

might think are broad minded, and

about three months; add another

there are some very good ones

month

around, who are prepared to run

What we did, was produce a whole

list of ways you could make savings,
and then because there was a sort
of confidence element to it, we ran
a

Monte

Carlo

model,

and

associated two probabilities: one,

the difficulty of the thing, and the
other was whether people would
cross the line and actually do it. We
called it the probability of adoption.
If you make the probabilities of

So the answer is yes, we achieved

the target. Was the value of the
Solution Focus worth it? I think it
was. I mean, I alluded earlier to the
fact that it saved time. We were
right up against the stocks; our final
report was being written during the
final 48 hours of the 18 months that

suppose

for

Department

the

example

it

to

go

past

of

Transport

the

to

be

with

worthwhile

it,

chief

doing.

have

to

executives,

innovation

And

persuade

who

strategies,

you

and

approved, and it actually hit the

goodness knows what else, still

Secretary of States table at the end

think in problem focused terms,

of that month. And he said, Yes,

and its quite difficult to get them to

so that was kind of nice.

change. I will certainly continue to

we had, and we worked pretty flat

When

we

compared

the

same

out throughout that period. For the

activity on the Olympics, who used

practice it and to use it. I think its

a fantastic technique.