Transcription of Episode 10 A Brave, New World

Participants: Adam B. Levine (AL) Host Andreas M. Antonopolous (A.A.) Co-host Stephan Murph (SM) Co-host Andreas Petersson (AP) - !itcoinupdate.com "ustice (") Listener #ho !rie$l appears at %&':()

AL Hello ever !od * Adam B. Levine here. + #ant to #elcome ou to this special episode o$ Lets,al-Bitcoin. .ecorded at the ver end oc the con$erence* Stephanie Murph and + #ere /oined $or this late ni0ht roundup ! Andreas Petersson o$ Bitcoin1pdate.com. +n this episode #e discuss our $avorite thin0s* our thou0hts* our vie#s and our hopes. + hope that ou en/o this episode as much as #e en/o ed ma-in0 it.

SM 2otta have the hat #hen ou #rap up the part .

AL 3ell +4m tr in0 to create this anachronistic vi!e #here +4ve 0ot the suspenders 0oin0 on and +4ve 0ot the.. + al#a s #ear suspenders a0ain + have this idea that /ournalism is this dead art $rom a past a0e and i$ ou can replicate the vi!e ou can !rin0 it !ac-.

SM 5ou do and ou4ve 0ot our !ad0e on our shirt /ust li-e an old school. 5ou looli-e ou stepped out o$ the 678)4s.

AP

5eah* it4s cra9 . +t4s 0reat.

AL Here #e 0o one last time.

AP +4ll !e honest a!out it. +t4s o-a i$ ou are tired.

SM +s Andreas Antonopolous comin0:

AL ;o he4s not* he4s...

SM <-a * #ell #e have an Andreas.

AP + #as /ust su!!in0 that4s $ine.

SM +t4s Adam su!!in0 Andreas. ;ot the Andreas that ou4re used to.

AL 3e4re /oined ! Andreas Petersson $rom the Bitcoin .eport.

AP 5es actuall it4s the Bitcoin 1pdate. ,he !itcoinupdate.com.

AL ,he Bitcoin1pdate.com #hich is the #orld4s onl and !est 0erman lan0ua0e and !itcoin speci$ic podacst and ou 0u s are #ee-l * ri0ht:

AP =>actl . 5eah* eah #e do record #ee-l as $ar as it4s possi!le. So $ar #e4ve made it #ee-l . And #e started out as a ver small podcast in a se0ment in an open-source podcast #here there4s a lot o$ !eer !ein0 consumed. People li-e me /ust met on the street and tal-ed a!out open-source and the topic al#a s circled around !itcoin. So it #as -ind o$ ta-in0 a (inaudi!le ):8:6() podcast so #e decided to ma-e a se0ment dedicated to that and spin it o$$ and + thin- that4s !een a 0ood success so $ar.

AL 3ell* + don4t spea- 2erman !ut + hear 0ood thin0s. So i$ ou 0u s start doin0 transcripts +4ll !e a!le to 0et $eed!ac- on our content !ut as it stands ri0ht no#. So + 0uess #e should pro!a!l insure ourselves at this point. So #hat* it4s a!out 6):)) on #hat* Sunda the last da o$ the Bitcoin ?estival* Bitcoin Con$erence 8)6( and #e are all dead e>hausted.

AP +t4s a #eird $eelin0* ri0ht !e$ore the han0over. +s that correct:

SM + thin- this is the han0over.

AP ,his is the han0over: 5ou have to sleep to have a han0over.

AL So this #as a* this #as a hell o$ a htin0* #asn4t it. 5ou -no# + -no# that + had prett hi0h e>pectations 0oin0 into it !ecause + #as thin-in0 that this is somethin0 that4s comin0* the time is ri0ht. ,here4s a lot o$ people comin0 in $rom

all over the #orld !ut it reall !le# me a#a +4ve 0ot to sa . Andreas so ou #ere here !oth as a vendor !ut that4s the #ron0 #ord. 5ou #ere here displa in0 $or M celean #hich #as reall one o$ the most interestin0 pro/ects.

SM He #as one o$ the !ooth !a!es. ;o +4m /ust -iddin0.

AP 5eah* eah #e had nice !ooth !a!es. And #ere #ere the main sponsors actuall o$ this con$erence. And #e tried to present our plat$orm to the 0eneral audience and /ust 0et some $eed!ac- on it. So our main product #ill !e the Bitcoin Cart. So the BitcoinCart.or0 ou can see an inspirational video that is sort o$ a vision o$ #hat is 0oin0 to come. ,he $irst iteration #e are 0oin0 to sho# is 0oin0 to !e a ilttle !it do#n to earth.

SM 3hat are the other products: Because + #as onl a#are o$ the BitcoinCart.

AP 5eah so the BitcoinCart is the main product and to support it #e #ill create a #hole !unch o$ additional products that ou can use #ith it so the M celean #allet #il !e in the pla store hope$ull ver soon actuall . And #e #ill have solutions $or merchants to use !itcoin in a ver eas #a . So ou can sell our products $or !itcoin ver easil and ou don4t have a currenc ris-. And ou4d have ) con$irmations and #e 0uaranteed that ou #ill 0et the mone . But that4s a little !it $ar out in the $uture so ou can4t 0et that ri0ht no#. ,he #allet #ill pro!a!l !e the $irst thin0 that #ill !e availa!le $or M celean.

AL So #e4re actuall have Ale> the visionar !ehind that product on as soon as he 0ets !ac- $rom Mosco#. + spent m entire esterda !asicall !oo-in0 our ne>t & #ee-s #orth o$ 0uests.

SM 2od* Loo- at ou.

AL 3ell* Stephanie* 2od* ou recorded li-e 6@ intervie#s.

SM <h* no* it4s more li-e () at this point. 3e4re 0onna have content $or months i$ #e #ant it. 3e4re 0onna have to release a #hole podcast that4s intervie#s or somethin0 li-e that.

AL 5eah* #ell ou -no#* a0ain the !onus content thin0 /ust has to happen. Because there4s so much content comin0 out o$ this. 3e haven4t reall tal-ed a!out speci$ics !esides the M celean card !ut the people #ho are presentin0 ideas here... one o$ the 0u s #ho 0ave a presentation that + reall reall li-ed* his name is "ohn Li0ht. 3e4re a0ain 0onna have him on the sho#. His concept is* he4s reall $ocused on cloud identit mana0ement. And #ith the idea that ?ace!ooand these other plat$orms are essentiall data silos that ta-e our data and turn the customer into the product. So + thin- that that4s -ind o$ o!vious i$ ou loo- at the s stem and sa o-* #ell ho# are the ma-in0 mone . 3ell* o!viousl ho# it is. His idea #ith this tal- on personal clouds is to $unctionall ta-e that concept o$ here4s our identit * here4s all o$ this data a!out ou that lives in this cloud it4s all encr pted and ou have complete control over #ho 0ets to see #hat. And ou essentiall open channels to various people. +t4s almost li-e #hen u $riend some!od in the s stem ou4re si0nin0 a contract #ith him sa in0 +4d li-e to share this in$ormation #ith ou* and ou can send reall rich parameters on it too. So ma !e some people ou onl #ant to !e a!le see particular in$ormation $rom 7-@ in the da and it 0ives ou complete 0ranular control to !e a!le to do that.

AP +sn4t that e>actl the idea !ehind diaspora or #as it:

SM 2oo0le Plus has some o$ those $eatures too* !ut.

AL

5eah so 2oo0le Plus. ,hat4s the interestin0 thin0 a!out this* 2oo0le Plus has this concept* ri0ht: =>cept 2oo0le does -no# all our data. So there4s that part. But the other part is ou have to !e oursel$* ri0ht: So li-e ou4re Stephanie Murph no matter #hat it is* not matter #hich circle ou4re tal-in0 to it4s /ust that di$$erent circles see id$$erent aspects o$ ou. 3hereas #ith this ou can actuall maintain multiple identities and use application speci$ic identities in certain scenarios that are advanta0eous so ou can have one that4s a real name associated #ith it that is our real name and it has our medical records in it. So ou 0o to the doctor and instead o$ them havin0 our medical records $or the rest o$ our li$e instead ou can sa o-a * #ell here are medical records and ou can have them $or A da s and then a$ter that the 4re no lon0er reall relevant to ou.

AP So i$ ou are usin0 this as a tool + 0uess that4s -ind o$ missin0 the point !ecause i$ ou4re usin0 one tool to mana0e all thse identities that are still lin-ed ph sicall !ecause the are on one machine to0ether.

AL 3ell* no* actuall + mean. 3e4re 0onna have "ohn on the sho# prett Buic-. He4s actuall local to me. He4s onl a!out &) miles a#a $rom #here + record. +4m sure he can 0o into it in more detail than + can. And no# +4ve $or0otten #h ou4ve actuall as-ed me.

AP 5eah* so i$ ou4re usin0 all o$ these identities $rom one particular pro0ram the 4re acutall ph sicall lin-d to our computer at the same time so the 4re not li-e encr pted* seperate...

AL ,he are encr pted* ever thin0 is encr pted. And #hat happens is that essentiall ou4ve 0ot all o$ our data stored encr pted on our machine* and there4s a !ac-up that lives in the cloud. And that !ac-up s nchroni9es #ith ever thin0 else. So it4s li-e #hen ou #or- #ith 2oo0le* li-e + do a lot o$ thin0s #ith 2oo0le Crive. And #hen + #or- #ith that it sta s in the cloud. +t starts in the cloud* + !uild it in the cloud* it sta s in the cloud. And then + can access it. So + do4nt actuall have a local cop most o$ the time. 3hereas #ith this ou do have a local cop . So an #a s that #as -ind o$ one o$ the interestin0 thin0s that came out o$ this. Andreas #hat #as our $avorite thin0 at the con$erence.

AP ,he thin0 that + #as the most impressed #ith #as the amount o$ ne# innovation 0oin0 on. So ri0ht !e$ore the con$erence + #as reall pumped and said #o#. +4m so e>cited. +4m loo-in0 $or#ard to this and this and this pro/ect. So especiall the... + li-e most actuall Llama Soup B,C. ,he !itcoin A,M. + thin- the have a real practical solution to all these -inds o$ pro!lems.

SM + -no# those 0u s. ,he live near me in ;e# Hampshire.

AP + thin- the have a reall convincin0 stor to !rin0 this to the mar-et. <$ course on the technical side $or me practicall this #as the onl tal- + attended. +t #as a!out HC #allets* hierachical deterministic #allets. ,his is 0oin0 to ma-e !itcoin real more usea!le once this is implemented in the #allet so$t#are so +4m loo-in0 $or#ard to that. <h* so HC 3allets ph sicall means that ou don4t have to !ac-up our #allet ever time that ou send a transaction. Because ri0ht no# i$ ou4re usin0 !itcoin D, the #a it #or-s is ou have a -e pool* and i$ our -e pool 0ets depleted i$ ou do a lot o$ transactions so that our pac-et 0ets invalid !ecause our ne# -e s are no lon0er in this !ac-up an more.

AL So #hat ou4re !asicall sa in0 is that i$ + use @)* let4s sa the !u$$er is @). <-a * so the !u$$er is @).

AP Bu$$er is 6)).

AL Bu$$er is 6))* o-a . So i$ the !u$$er is 6)) i$ ou4re sa in0 that !et#een the time that + !ac-up m #allet. +$ + then 0enerate 6)) more addresses* then a$ter that point those are no lon0er actuall recovera!le unless ou re$resh the !ac-up.

AP 5eah* ou have to !e a#are that ou are also 0eneratin0 addresses #hen sendin0 mone and receivin0 mone !ecause ou have to 0enerate the chan0e adresses.

AL So it4s transactions almost.

AP 5eah* it4s transactions.

AL <h reall * so then there4s onl a !u$$er o$ 6)) transactions !et#een !ac-ups.

AP 5eah* !ac- and $orth actuall * !ecause ou4re 0eneratin0 ne# adresses #hen ou4re receivin0 somethin0 i$ ou are activel doin0 that !ut ou are automaticall 0eneratin0 ne# addresses #hen ou are receivin0 chan0e.

AL 3ell + thin- + need to re$resh m !ac-up.

AP 5eahE A!solutel . A!solutel . So BitcoinD, reall needs re0ular !ac-ups actuall . All the time. So HC3allets* once that4s implemented ou can !ac- up /ust one seed and the #a it #or-s is it 0enerates ne# pu!lic -e s and ne# private -e s and it can actuall do $anc tric-s li-e creatin0 a ne# seed $rom the master seed that is let4s sa $rom one part o$ a compan . And each department can use its o#n private seed. And the C=< o$ the compan can use the master seed to spend all department $unds at once. <r somethin0 li-e that. So ou can ima0ine..

AL

3hat does the HC stand $or:

AP Hierarchal Ceterministic. Hierarchal means that u can create the tree structure. ,hen ou 0enerate a !unch o$ private -e s and pu!lic -e s. So the most common use case #ould !e li-e* +4m a shop* + #ant to accept !itcoin* and then + put m master pu!lic -e into a pu!lic so$t#are that4s runnin0 some#here on the net that doesn4t need to !e ver secure !ecause no!od can access our $unds !ut ou can 0enerate a ne# address $or each customer $or e>ample #ithout an trou!le on this remote machine that4s not ver secure. 5ou4re receivin0 the mone and spendin0 $rom our paper* !ac-up* #hatever ou need. And the Peter 3heeler the core developer is #or-in0 on that. And a lot o$ pro0rams* hard#are vendors also and hope$ull also the !itcoin card #ill pic- that up and use it. ,hat4s not a promise !ut + hope.

AL Li-e + said #e4re tal-in0 ver late at ni0ht so ta-e ever thin0 at $ace value here. So Stephanie* ou4re here #ith /ust a ton o$ di$$erent pro/ects and ou4ve !een 0eneratin0 inc$redi!le content and so ou said ou did () intervie#s. 3ho do ou thin- #as our $avorite intervie#: + -no# it4s li-e as-in0 to pic- our children #ith the people here. <-a * let4s /ust do a top (.

SM 5eah* o-a . 3ell 2avin. + tal-ed to 2avin* that #as reall cool. + sort o$ had an in !ecause + -ne# hiim !ecause he #as $riends... ou -no# he... +4m involved #ith this radio sho# ?ree,al-Live* #e actuall !roadcasted toni0ht here $rom the con$erence and +an and Mar- the main hosts o$ ?ree,al-Live had met 2avin !acin 8)6) or somethin0 li-e that and tal- a!out !itcoins and + thin- he prett much li-e convinced them to 0et on !oard. So + -ind o$ -ne# him that #a and he also lives in the to#n #here + #ent to colle0e. So #e -inda tal-ed a!out that stu$$ a little !it !ut #e also tal-ed a!out a lot o$ their stu$$ and he said he4s li-e mostl a li!ertarian adn that4s cool. + al#a s li-e it #hen + 0et people to admit that hte 4re li!ertarians. Because + am.

AP + thin- on the !itcoin con$erence ou -ind o$ have to sa that !ecause + 0ot in some heav discussions !ecause... + #ould not sa +4m this la!el or that la!el. But +4m certainl not strai0ht out li!ertarian.

AL 3e actuall tal-eda !out this on ?ree,al-Live #hen + #as on $or m !riie$ period o$ time.

SM +4m not re$errin0 to the li!ertarian part or an poitical part or an thin0 li-e that. "ust some!od #ho values human $reedom !asciall .

AL 5eah* the la!els do 0et con$usin0.

AP 5eah* + thin- la!els are dan0erous. La!els put ou into corners and limit ou in our ima0ination.

SM 5eah !ut #hat do ou call oursel$ to succinctl descri!e our vie#s:

AP 5eah* that4s a $air..

AL + 0o #ith $iscall conservative and social li!eral.

SM ,hose are complete opposites.

AP + 0o #ith ;oam Choms- .

AL ;oam Choms- . <-a * sure* +4ll !u that. So that #as num!er one $or ou. Co ou have an others:

SM 5eah* let me thin- #ho else + intervie#s. 5ou -no# some o$ m intervie#s #ere -ind o$ short. Li-e + #ould have li-ed to have more time to tal- to the people !ut that4s $ine. + 0uess + 0ot some names. + tal-ed to Mi-e Fern toda . ,hat #as interestin0. He said some even more interestin0 stu$$ o$$ the record + 0uess. 3hich* ou can hear the intervie# !ut + #on4t li-e repeat #hat he said. But* #e had a conversation a!out di$$erent uses o$ !itcoins $or smart propert and also some o$ the social en0ineerin0 that4s !uilt into !itcoins and some o$ the other alt coins. ,hat #as interestin0 to me. ,hat #as de$initel in m top three. And #ho #as the other one: Let4s see. + thin- + have to thin- a!out this a little more +4ll pass on it $or no#.

AL ,hat4s $ine. 3e had a 0reat intervie# on* see #hat + did. Stephanie #or-ed throu0ht the #hole thin0. M /o! as the editor in chie$ is to create content !ut also +4m #or-in0 out the schedule* +4m loo-in0 $or contri!utors. So one o$ the reall 0reat thin0s a!out !ein0 here and $or this time is that there are so man /ust cra9 smart people. + mean the 0roup that came here has totall sel$selected to !e here and it4s /ust the amount o$ passion that4s in this croud is a!solutel unreal. +t4s hum!lin0 !ecause it4s the sort o$ thin0 #here + have thro#n m sel$ into this in a ver #hole hearted #a and +4ve -ind o$ vie#ed m sel$ as this cra9 outlier and it turns out not that cra9 or ma !e that cra9 !ut at least there are other cra9 people #ho are 0oin0 on this same /ourne #ith us as #e 0o do#n the ra!it hole.

SM + !et a lot o$ people #ere thin-in0 that same thin0. + thin- taht4s the point o$ con$erences to some e>tent. 5ou4re out there #herever ou live in the #orld and ou4re -ind o$ alone !ecause there aren4t tons o$ people around ou. Ma !e ou can 0o to meetups and stu$$ !ut there aren4t a ton o$ people around ou #ho reall share our interests on a deep level and #hen ou 0o to a con$erence it4s -ind o$ li-e a little cit 0ets created - almost li-e !urinin0 man + 0uess ou could sa $or a #ee-end or ho#ever lon0. And ou4re suddenl amon0 a !unch o$ people #ho are real visionaries and luminaries #ho totall share our interest. .eall cool connections.

AL <ne o$ the reall cool thin0s #as to see all these people #ho are $unctionin0 li-e Cipher pun-s #hich is this concept o$ people #ho use cr pto0raph as a #a to do stu$$. "ac-* 0ive me a !etter de$inition than that.

AP + #ould sa a c pher pun- is someone #ho !elieves the can chan0e a societ ! usin0 cr ptoo0raph and

AL ,hat4s a !etter de$inition.

AP So essentiall the use o$ cr pto0raph is ver central to that.

AL So some o$ the people here #ho -ind o$ most $all into that cate0or are total cele!rities here. And it4s li-e this cool thin0. 5ou see the tal-s that are reall sparsel populated* the 4re the ones that are tal-in0 a!out the re0ulator - not the re0ulator * the re0ulator actuall #as ver * ver cro#ded. ,here4s a lot o$ people reall concerned a!out that. But some o$ the tal-s that are a!out more mainstream topics + can4t thin- o$ an o$$ the top $o m head. 3e4re not that #ell attended* !ut then on the $lip side o$ it #e4ve 0ot people #ho* there4s a 0u #ho created e-mone #ho #as here and spea-in0. +t #as actuall #hile + #as outside durin0 one o$ our panels* Stephanie* there #as a 0roup o$ pro!a!l @) or A) people #ho had /ust surrounded him and mo!!ed him and it lasted $or li-e a hal$ hour. And there #ere people #ith cameras holdin0 up. 5ou -no# it #as li-e a cele!rit and it #as /ust li-e #o#* this is such a contrar thin0. 3e4re in this real #orld place !ut it4s so not the real #orld** #e4ve ta-en it over and it4s /ust people il-e us.

AP .e$errin0 to that South selection ou previousl mentioned. + thin- taht4s a ver hard path to actuall $ollo#. 5ou have to -no# a lot a!out a num!er o$ topics to !e reall enthusiastic a!out !itcoin and most people 0ive up hal$ the #a and sa

oh that4s some cra9 internet thin0 ... actual it4s not so much the oun0 people. 5eah* educated people also.

AL 3ell it depends on our de$inition o$ oun0 is. 3e #ere tal-in0 a!out this all throu0hout the con$erence. ,hat the a0e 0roup that is here that is most impact$ul is pro!a!l the a0e 0roup !et#een a!out 8@* 8A* li-e (@-&) on the upper end. And then !e ond that ou certainl have outliers* +4m not sa in0 that ever !od #as !et#een those !ut the people that are doin0 the cra9iest stu$$ are -ind o$ in that ran0e. And + thin- that4s reall interestin0.

AP 5eah* the oun0 people actuall ...

AL Con4t understand it.

AP 5eah* comin0 to the con$erence is a !i0 hurdle $or man . + mean* 0ettin0 in a plane* and leavin0... ou have to !e ili-e... an #or- li$e.. aeh.

SM Co ou thin- there #ere an !od #ho didn4t come !ecause the don4t #ant to !e pu!lic essential : Almost li-e Satoshi:

AL Ah* no* + thin- that ma !e Satoshi #as here: 3ho #ould -no#: 5ou -no#* + mean a0ain* that4s #hat + #ould do. +$ ou4re 0onna ma-e osmethin0 disruptive li-e this the pla is ou ma-e it* ou 0et it to the point #here our idea has le0s and it4s 0onna #or-. And then ou #al- a#a * thro# a#a that identit . A0ain* comin0 !ac- to the personal cloud concept* it4s a!out havin0 application speci$ic identities !ecause the realit is these technolo0ies are dan0erous. And it4s not dan0erous !ecause ou4re 0onna cut o$$ our $in0er. +t4s dan0erous !ecause the 4re disruptive and !ecause the chan0e the #a that the #orld #or-s. And once ou -ind o$ e>trapolate that out there are real implications that come alon0

!ecause people #ho have po#er reall don4t li-e 0ivin0 it up. And an time ou have disruption ou have shi$ts o$ ho# the po#er is distri!uted.

AP + have a !it o$ suspicion that the real innovative ne# uses $or !itcoin are not essentiall the ones #e are seein0 on the sur$ace ri0ht no# !ut rather li-e real disruptive to our !ase services $or e>ample. +4m not re$errin0 to an particular one !ecause there are reall ne# ones comin0 up. + thin- that that #ill !e an interestin0 space to #atch. Also li-e a virtual 0ames that are inte0ratin0 virtual currencies. ,hat could !e ver interestin0. + don4 tthin- those people #ill sho# up here so the #ill !uild somethin0* put it out there ma !e care $or it ma !e not.

AL So #hile + #as here + sa# at least three documentaries !ein0 shot ! di$$erent 0roups. + don4t -no# i$ an !od else has seen it* there4s a documentar a!out competitive scra!!le pla ers called 3ord 3ars that came out a couple ears a0o. Has an !od seen this:

SM +4m not nerd enou0h $or that !ut it sounds a#esome.

AL 3e #ent throu0h a period o$ time* m #i$e and +* #ho is m actin0 en0ineer. 3here #e #ere #atchin0 a lot o$ documentaries !ecause #atchin0 an thin0 else #as a little !it* stupid it seemed at the time. A0ain it4s one o$ those thin0s #here the su!/ect almost doesn4t matter. 3hat matters is that people have the passion and the have the appreciation o$ it. And i$ ou 0et enou0h o$ those people to0ether then ou can do reall insane thin0s. And a0ain t in0 it !ac- to !itcoin. + !rin0 this up !ecause the 0u #ho made that documentar is no# ma-in0 a documentar tal-in0 a!out essentiall the Ban- o$ +nternational Settlement. And all the various #a s it is in$luencin0* + thin- he said the title is called 3ho 3ants to !e a ,rillionaire. <r osmethin0 li-e that. And it4s a!out !itcoin and !itcoin is the continuit that ties it all to0ether. ,ies to0ether ho# thee decisions are made on a 0lo!al scale and ho#* so an #a s. ,hat #as one o$ them* there #ere a couple others* this one called somethin0 a!out the revolution. ,hoes 0u s #ere around a lot. ., #as here e>tensivel doin0 intervie#s.

SM 5eah* the 0ot Andreas Antonopolous on camera. And he said he didn4t pimp the podcast.

AL <h* he didn4t pimp the podcast. ,he 0ot me on and all + did #as pimp the podcast.

AP ,he rise and rise o$ !itcoin #ill !e cool too. So there are 2erman 0u s doin0 a 0reat !itcoin documentar as #ell. ,he are 0oin0 across road. + thin- the couldn4t attend the con$erence !ecause o$ their lac-in0 donations* so ma !e i$ ou4re here* ou should 0et to the!itcoindocumentar .or0 the are 0reat 0u s* ou should support them. AL 5es* #hat #as the 1.L a0ain: AP + thin- it #as the!itcoindocumentar .or0. AL the!itcoindocumentar .or0. <F* 0reat* #e4ll have to chec- that out. Cid ou 0u s #atch the -e note: SM ;o. AP ;o. SM + #as at the !ooth that + #as #or-in0 at #ith these non-pro$it or0anisations* and it #as pac-ed durin0 the #hole -e note* + couldn4t 0et a#a . AL So* + #atched the -e note* and it #as pain$ul and + understand #h it too- me a #hile to 0et it + understand #h the $oundation chose to $eature the 3in-levoss t#ins as the -e note spea-ers* even thou0h the didn4t deliver a ver 0ood speech ! an real standard* !ut it4s !ecause the !rin0 to the mainstream press almost a sense o$ le0itimac * !ecause $or some reason* havin0 a lot o$ mone * re0ardless o$ ho# ou 0ot that mone * is a source o$ !ein0 Gri0htH in our particular culture. + don4t a0ree #ith that* and + thin- that* $rom the perspective o$ it !ein0 a -e note speech* it #as a ver poor choice* !ut $rom an optics perspective loo-in0 at it throu0h the lens o$ the mainstream media once ou

start readin0 the covera0e* + read a stor on C-;=, and some#here else too and the Buoted ma !e t#o sentences $rom the tal-* !ut it #as all a!out the $act that these people #ere investin0 mone into it. ;o#* that !ein0 said* the #a the 4re investin0 mone into it is one o$ the ver $e# #a s that + le0itimatel consider hoardin0 !ecause their #hole strate0 #as to !u !itcoins* stic- them onto $lash drives* and put them into distri!uted !an-s4 sa$e deposits around the countr I #hich is 0reat and all* !ut it ma-es it impossi!le $or ou to ever spend it* so there4s not even reall the chance o$ that happenin0* and + thin- that that4s a little !it dum!. SM 3ell* on the other hand* it drives the price o$ !itcoins up AP + consider that le0itimate* !ecause ri0ht no# sure* ou can !u our pi99a online* ma !e* !ut ou4re not !u in0 a 0reat deal o$ propert the can certainl tr to invest in !itcoin !usinesses* and that4s AL 3ell* the 4ve done that. AP ,he 4ll certainl do that. AL But a0ain* the have a real advanta0e it4s one o$ those thin0s #here !ecause !itcoin is mone * i$ !itcoin succeeds* an !od #ho holds a lot o$ !itcoin succeeds* so $rom that perspective* + thin- it4s valua!le to them* !ut +4m sa in0 that as a service to as !ein0 JanK actual part o$ the communit + $eel li-e it almost isolates ou #hen ou sa G<F* #ell +4ve made m investment* and it4s 0oin0 a#a * loc-ed in a loc- !o>* and #e4ll loo- at it in $our ears.H ,hat means that those are out o$ circulation - ou4re ri0ht* it drives the price hi0her - !ut it doesn4t help an !od #ho4s tr in0 to !uild the mar-et. SM 3ell* !ut it -inda does* !ecause it 0ives pu!licit to !itcoin. + don4t thin- loo-in0 at it $rom the perspective o$ Gdoes it help the communit :H is #here the 4re comin0 $rom* !ut that4s $ine* !ecause it4s their mone . 5ou could ar0ue a!out ho# the 0ot that mone the pro!a!l didn4t reall #or- $or it AL 3ell* the sued some!od $or it* so that4s valua!le in our societ SM + thin- people reall 0ripe a!out that. But ultimatel * i$ it4s some!od !itcoins* #hatever the #anna do #ith themI +4m not here to tell them #hat to do. AL 3ell* the had to !u the !itcoins $rom some!od * so + 0uess #hatever their

investment meant actuall #ent !ac- into some!od 4s poc-ets #ho #as holdin0 !itcoins !e$ore. S.M: 5eah* and some!od had to a0ree to sell them* so the 4ve named their price and the 0ot it that #as a voluntar transaction* so +4m not a!out to 0et in the middle o$ that AL ?air enou0h. SM <ne thin0 + heard a!out their speech #as that the said Git4s time to come to the $eds and tr to 0et them to re0ulate !itcoinH. AL 3ell* that #as a !i0 thin0 here* there #ere a lot o$ people representin0 the it4s not reall li!ertarian* it4s almost li-e anarcho-capitalist vie#point o$ re0ulation* #hich is G0et the hell outH. SM 5eah* that4s me. + a0ree. AL And then there4s the other camp* that4s li-e Gthis is 0onna happen one #a or another* #ith or #ithout us* so it4s !etter i$ #e4re in a conversation than notH. But Stephanie* +4m curious Ja!outK #hat ou thin- to a certain e>tent* isn4t participatin0 in the s stem le0itimisin0: Sa in0 that G es* re0ulators* ou have authorit over thisH - is that a positive thin0* or is that a ne0ative thin0* or do ou thin- that it4s SM <h* ne0ative - the onl thin0 the could possi!l do to help !itcoin is to 0et out o$ it* and + can -inda understand* or relate* to these companies #ho JhaveK invested a lot into !itcoin start-up !usinesses* or #hatever* and the 4re uncertain* and the 4re a$raid* !ecause #hat the 4re a$raid o$ is that there4s 0onna !e some -ind o$ ne# re0ulation that comes do#n that4s reall 0onna hurt their !usiness* that the 4re 0onna have no sa over and that suc-s #hen ou4ve invested a lot o$ time into a start-up. So + 0et #h the #ant it to happen* and the #ant to have a sa in it* and the #ant some clarit a!out #hat4s 0onna !e reBuired o$ them* !ecause the see it as inevita!le* !ut a0ain* + thin- the 4re missin0 the point that the !est thin0 that the $eds could do is step out o$ the #a . And ho# are the actuall 0oin0 to even re0ulate !itcoin $unctionall : +t4s one o$ those thin0s that /ust lends itsel$ to decentrali9ation. AP + thin-* the centrali9ed e>chan0es the are de$initel a 0ood pla 0round $or the re0ulators* and ou should stic- them to their pla 0round and leave the rest o$ us alone #ho are doin0 use$ul #or-.

AL +sn4t it almost a lose-lose situation* thou0h* $or those companies: Because + understand #hat ou4re sa in0* !ut then* on the $lipside o$ it* let4s sa that the re0ulations do 0et solidi$ied* and the 4re 0ood* and the loo- li-e it4s 0onna !e permissi!le then doesn4t that mean that the le0ac !an-in0 s stem comes in and sa s G<F* #ell* i$ it4s le0al* then sure* #e4re 0onna provide this serviceH* and $ran-l o!selete Bit+nstant* !ecause Bit+nstant or BitPa or reall an o$ these thin0s* the 4re reall all #or-around companies !ased on the idea that the le0ac s stem #on4t inter$ace #ith us* so there$ore #e4re 0onna create this s stem #here ou /ump throu0h all these hoops SM 3ell* it #ould enrich the entrenched interest* and the !i0 !usinesses* and it #ould empoverish the !itcoin startups and the small 0u s* and a0ain* + thinthese !itcoin startups #ho are as-in0 $or re0ulation are -inda missin0 the point that the came a!out and the sprun0 up in an environment that #as totall $ree* and the less $ree it 0ets* the more di$$icult it4s 0oin0 to !e $or ne# !itcoin startups to come out* and $or $ran-l technolo0 to push $or#ard* and ne# technolo0ies to come out. AP + a0ree* eah* and + thin- that it4s a ver valua!le thin0 to have !itcoin as a standalone currenc that4s not even reco0nised as a currenc * so it4s /ust JthatK #e are sendin0 these $unn internet to-ens* and on top o$ that ou can do all -inds o$ innovative ne# services* and + thin- that4s reall 0oin0 to provide a value $or humanit . +t4s $unn to sa it li-e that. SM Co ou #anna tal- a!out other themes at the con$erence* an thin0 li-e that: AL 5eah* did ou identi$ an : SM 5eah* + 0uess one thin0 that came out to me #as it4s !een a #hile* at least in the 1S* since there4s !een a period o$ real economic prosperit and + de$initel 0ot this sense o$* almost reminiscent o$ the dot com era* and in $act !itcoin has !een compared this #ee-end to the internet in 6778I #e4re at the !leedin0 ed0e o$ technolo0 * #e4re the $irst adopters* and #e4re 0onna all ma-e !an- out o$ this* or !ecome reall success$ul* or !e reall $amous* or #hatever and people #ere part in0 already !ecause o$ that* and !asicall e>pectin0 this to happen. So #hen + see that* + share in that /u!ilation* totall * and + thin- this is hu0e it4s a hu0e deal* o!viousl . +4m also a little cautious* !ecause + -no# not all o$ these !itcoin startups are 0onna succeed some startups do $ail AL Some startups do $ail* haha. Most startups do $ail. SM Most startups do $ail* 7)LE

AP A @)L chance o$ e>chan0es $ailin0. AL @)L: ;o# that4s a $a-e num!er. ,he cited that num!er* it #as G&(L o$ e>chan0es $ail and ta-e mone #ith themH* !ut there4s a 8(L mar0in o$ error. SM So it could !e an #here $rom 8)-A)L: AL =>actl * 8)-A)LE AP + have some practical e>perience #ith that. A lot o$ m mone 0ot !lo#n a#a . AL <h* that4s too !ad* #here #ere ou in: AP <h* #ell* -ind o$* all o$ them: + thin- it4s m /o! to -no# the !itcoin space* + tr all the thin0s. So + 0ot shut do#n ! all the thin0s* o$ course. ;ot all the mone * o$ course. ,he most recent one #as !itcoin8&.com that #as run ! a 2erman 0u * !ut + thin- there is a decent chance that some da + mi0ht 0et some o$ m $iat mone that #as tied up !ac-. SM + hope so. AP 5eah* + hope so tooE SM ,here4s a lot o$ ris- in this space* and #hen ou see the !i0 successes and ou see the !i0 !ooms* it4s eas to $or0et a!out the ris- that4s there* and to -eep a perspectiveI it4s eas to 0et super-e>cited and sa Goh eah* #e4re 0uaranteed to succeedH* !ut that4s not the realit a lot can happen and that4s <F* !ecause ultimatel #e4re in a process o$ 0ro#thI #e4re in a process o$ $i0urin0 out #hat the mar-et actuall #ants* in terms o$ !itcoin* and #hat -inds o$ ne# technolo0ies can !e !rou0ht to the $ore and that4s <F* that4s all the process o$ 0ro#th. ,here4s a little !it o$ creative destruction in there and it4s un$ortunate #hen that happens not-creativel * !ecause o$ re0ulators* and that4s #hat #e4ve seen a lot o$ the time. But there4s also hac-ers* there4s the$tsI people have to learn thin0s a!out securit #ith !itcoins the hard #a * and that does happen* too. ,hat4s a le0itimate thin0. So + don4t -no#* + 0uess it4s 0reat to have parties #here there are $ree drin-sI + love that to happen* it4s 0reat to see people #al-in0 around in suits ou -no#* oun0* attractive 0u s* and there4s a lot o$ 0u s here !ut #e do have to -eep thin0s in perspective a little !it* too* !ecause #e don4t #ant to !e in a !u!!le and not -no# it* and no!od has an clue.

AP + thin- #e4re not in a !u!!le + thin- the potential is hu0e* #e4re 0oin0 to see a lot more. AL Are #e tal-in0 a!out a price !u!!le* or are #e talin0 a!out a realit !u!!le: SM +4m -inda tal-in0 a!out !oth* + mean* 4cause the price re$lects the realit and the attitude a!out !itcoin to a certain e>tentAL ;ot here* it doesn4t + didn4t hear one person tal-in0 a!out the price* this entire con$erence. Cid ou: SM ;o* not reall * actuall * e>cept at the Lamassu machineAL <h* ri0ht* ri0ht* #here the 4re doin0 e>chan0es. 5eah* o$ course* !ut outside o$ that* it #asn4t li-e people #ere 0oin0 around* 0oin0 Goh man* can ou !elieve it4s up to M68@* this is so $antastic* #e4re all 0onna !e richEH - + mean no* no!od reall cares a!out that* #e4re all tal-in0 a!out the companies that are !ein0 !uilt around it to ma-e it !etter* and to ma-e it easier* and to ma-e it cleaner. SM 3ell* + 0uess #hat + #as re$errin0 to #hen + said G!u!!leH #as /ust the amount o$ venture capital mone that4s $lo#in0 into !itcoin startups ri0ht no# some o$ that is not 0onna succeed* some o$ those companies are 0onna 0o !ust $or #hatever reason* ri0ht: AL But a0ain* to that point* the #hole venture model #hen it comes to thisSM - eah* it !uilds in ris-AL -#ell eah* it !uilds in a huge amount o$ $ailureI the standard model $or this t pe o$ compan is: ou #ould ma-e si>teen investments* $i$teen o$ them are supposed to $ail* and the one that succeeds is the one that ma-es ou cra9 * cra9 rich !e ond our #ildest dreams. So on the venture side* #e certainl did see some o$ that* and there #ere a lot o$ people #anderin0 around* loo-in0 into places* tr in0 to $i0ure out #hat #as 0oin0 on + thin- it4s the attitude that4s most important. 3e had a venture 0u come to our $irst meetup on ?rida * and it #as reall interestin0 tal-in0 to him !ecause he had /ust le$t his compan and a0ain* #e4re not 0onna 0et into names !ut he had a couple o$ hundred thousand dollars that he #as #antin0 to thro# at pro/ects* and #hen + tal-ed to him on his #a out a couple o$ hours a0o* he4s li-e Gthe thin0 + realised is that a $e# hundred thousand dollars is /ust not enou0h to !e a!le to do pro/ects and

spread the ris- aroundH. So #hat he #as 0oin0 to do #as* he #as $l in0 !acimmediatel to his old venture $irm* and #as 0oin0 to sa Ghe * let4s thro# a couple o$ million dollars at this pro/ectH - and a0ain* even $rom the venture space* a couple o$ million dollars is nothin0* that4s li-e a couple o$ people chippin0 in on that side* #hereas ou have these 0iant $unds. AP Stephanie* ou #ere comparin0 that to the dot com !u!!le. + thin- the dot com !u!!le onl reall too- o$$ once ever thin0 #as traded on the ;e# 5or- Stoc=>chan0e* and + thin- #e are #a * #a * $ar apart $rom havin0 that in the !itcoin space* so there is no mass appeal spi-e #hen ever one4s thro#in0 mone at the !itcoin stoc-s. AL And the other thin0* o$ course* that4s di$$erent $rom the dot com era is that the moneti9ation #ith !itcoin is !uilt in so a0ain* ou have this pro!lem #here #ith the dot com* ever one #as so e>cited a!out 0ettin0 the e e!alls that that #as the $ocus* and so it4s li-e ?ace!oo- it4s li-e* G#e /ust need to 0et the users* and then #e4ll #orr a!out ho# to moneti9e it laterH - !ut the pro!lem is that #hen ou !uild our !usiness around not moneti9in0* #ith the idea that ou4ll do it later* #hat ou #ind up doin0 is JthatK as ou tr to moneti9e* ever sin0le thin0 ou do pushes users a#a $rom ou* !ecause the service is 0ettin0 #orse instead o$ 0ettin0 !etter* so #ith !itcoin a0ain* it has other pro!lems + thin- that the re0ulator ris- is meanin0$ul !ut it doesn4t have that pro!lem. ,he moneti9ation is actuall there $rom minute one* !ecause it4s mone . AP A!solutel . SM Mm* !ut there are people #ho speculate on !itcoin !ecause it4s also a commodit . AL <F* !ut that4s m point* that that4s di$$erent. 5ou can speculate on it ou couldn4t speculate on the internet companies until the #ere on the stoce>chan0e* !ut !ecause !itcoin is mone * it4s $loatin0 value* relativel spea-in0. A.P. And it4s an =,? on the #hole !itcoin space. AL 5eah* that4s e>actl ri0ht. ,hat* o$ course* is the other thin0* is that i$ ou4re loo-in0 at this $rom a ris- perspective* solel * !u in0 !itcoin is such a sa$er investment* !ecause i$ ou4re investin0 in companies* and !itcoin $ails* all the !itcoin companies $ailI !ut i$ ou4re investin0 in !itcoin* it doesn4t matter i$ the !itcoin companies $ail* it /ust matters i$ there4s adoption overall* and ou still have that e>ponential multiplier e$$ect that -ic-s in. A0ain* it4s /ust one o$ those thin0s #here !ecause o$ #hat is is and ho# it operates* it !rea-s a lot o$ the rules !ecause the moneti9ation is alread !uilt inI ou don4t need to #orr a!out that part o$ them all ou need to #orr a!out other thin0s* !ut not that.

AP So no# #e4re tal-in0 a!out the price all the time* ri0ht: SM 5ou -no#* + haven4t chec-ed the price in a couple o$ da s* +4m 0onna 0o to m !itcoin Paranoid app + did notice that a$ter the 2i0a<M meetup on ,hursda ni0ht* #hich #as a smashin0 success* there #as a !ump in price o$ a!out $ive !uc-s o$ !itcoins. + don4t -no# i$ that4s meanin0$ul* !ut + thou0ht ma !e it #as. AL Somethin0 else that de$initel is true here is JthatK this is an incredi!l multicultural event. ,here #ere people $l in0 in $rom all over the world. SM + love the accents. +ncludin0 ours* AndreasE A.L: ,he accents #ere 0reat. 3e had such $un tal-in0 #ith* + #anted to sa a Gset o$ 2ree-sH - the #ere actuall a couple o$ reall nice 2ree- 0u s* #ho hadn4t -no#n each other* and #e sa# this actuall + sa# this #hole 0roup o$ Canadians* ri0ht* #ho didn4t -no# each other !e$ore the thin0* !ut !ecause the #ere Canadians* #ound up han0in0 out to0ether $or most o$ the thin0 and /ust 0oin0 around $rom thin0 to thin0. Actuall * Peter Cuchins- * one o$ the contri!utors $or the sho#* -ind o$ 0lommed onto this 0roup SM + didn4t 0et to meet himE He must have !een #ith the Canadians the #hole time... AL 5ou didn4t 0et to meet him: Peter4s a 0reat 0u * man. But it #as the same thin0 #ith there #ere a couple o$ 2ree- 0u s #ho had met over the course o$ the thin0* and all had pro/ects that #ere relevant to each other* and so then ou hooup hereI and so even thou0h it4s this thin0 happenin0 in America* the 4re all 0oin0 !ac- to 2reece throu0h their various channels at some point in the near $uture* and the all are colla!oratin0 no# to !uild tools* and seminars* and trainin0s to essentiall 0et this stu$$ into the #ild. +t4s ver e>citin0. ,he other thin0 that /umped out to me is that it #as so much less a!out the tal-s* and so much more a!out the attendees. ;earl ever sin0le person that + tal-ed to and reall * to#ards the end o$ it*+ realised that + #as missin0 out ! not introducin0 m sel$ to ever sin0le person that + sa# !ecause ever !od has a pro/ect* even the people #ho #ere here as attendees #ere $unctionall not attendees* the should4ve !een spea-ers. AP A!solutel * eah. So people came to our !oothI almost ever one could ma-e a speech o$ their o#n a!out #hat the are doin0 in the !itcoin space* and + thinthere #ere onl one or t#o people #ho /ust said G#ell* +4m interested in the #hole thin0H* !ut a hundred people-

SM + thin- that4s it* it attracts curious* active-minded people* and the all then* as a result* once the understand enou0h #ant to have their o#n pro/ects* and the do* !ecause nothin04s stoppin0 them* !ecause it4s so eas to /ust start one o$ our o#n. AL And there4s so much to doE 5ou can loo- at this $rom so man di$$erent an0les* and ever !od loo-s at it and sees somethin0 a little !it di$$erent* !ecause comin0 $rom our o#n conte>t* ou4re a!le to /ust appl it to #hatever the hecou4re alread doin0 and see the #a s it ma-es it easier* or !etter* or more e$$icientI it /ust chan0es thin0s* and it4s reall po#er$ul. SM Another thin0 this is 0onna !e -ind o$ meta* !ecause #e4re doin0 a podcast a!out the podcast* !ut /ust to toot our o#n horn a little !it + #as stunned at the num!er o$ people - #e4ve onl !een podcastin0 $or a month* Adam AL 5eah* /ust a month. SM -and + #as stunned at the num!er o$ people #ho a) had heard o$ our sho#* !) had listened to our sho#* c) reco0nised me #ithout me -no#in0 #ho the #ereE Cid ou have the same e>perience: AL 5eah* + did. AP + thin- our podcast #as #a overdue. <!viousl * !ecause o$ m accent* + #on4t do an =n0lish podcast all the time. 3e #ere as-ed multiple times* Gs#itch to =n0lishE 5ou #ill 0et such an audienceE ,here is no =n0lish podcast* #hat4s 0oin0 on:H - and ou #ere /ust ri0ht $or the time. AL ,han- ou $or sa in0 that* Andreas. <ne o$ the most $un e>periences that + had here #as !ein0 a!le to meet all these people #ho* +4ve !een readin0 their stu$$ $or ears* and + have no idea #hat the loo- li-e + o$tentimes didn4t -no# their real name !ut ,#itter #as such a tool $or $i0urin0 out #ho people #ere* coordinatin0 #ith that* and then schedulin0 the meetup. + 0ot to meet one o$ m personal heroes* "e$$re Paul* #ho 0oes ! Snea- online he4s the 0u #ho did a tal- at CCC !ac- in 8)6)* + thin- it #asSM 3hat4s CCC: AL CCC is the Chaos Communication Con0ress.

SM +t4s C&. AL An #a s* it4s a 2erman earl seminar that4s !asicall on in$ormation securit and stu$$ li-e that. +t4s -inda 0ee- * it4s actuall super reall -technical 0ee- * and +4m not that technical* as $ar as !ein0 a!le to loo- at code and sa G<F* #ell + see #hat that doesH* !ut + li-e to hear people #ho -no# #hat it does tal- a!out it* !ecause that helps me !e a!le to understand it + don4t understand e>actl ho# it #or-s* !ut it4s li-e a dollarI ou don4t need to understand ho# a dollar #or-s in order to -no# that it4s use$ul* in order to -no# its purpose. So that side o$ it #as reall e>citin0* 0ettin0 to tal- to these people and then on the other side o$ it* havin0 people come up to me and sa G+4m here !ecause o$ ou* + came to this sho# !ecause o$ our sho# and the ideas that it spar-ed in m headH - !ecause that4s li-e m dream. M dream is to help people have ideas a!out this* !ecause + have so man ideas a!out this* and + -no# that +4m not the onl one* and that4s ver e>citin0 to me.ist. So* other people #ho #e met... actuall * +4m not even 0onna tr to list them* there4s too man to list. SM 5eah* there are too man too list. AL ,oo man * + don4t #anna leave an !od o$$. SM So man o$ them #ere reall ama9in0. + $elt li-e startin0 at our meetup on ?rida * #hen #e had listeners come and meet us* + reall connected #ith a lot o$ people there* and then $ollo#in0 that* at the con$erence* J+K met a lot o$ cool people that + $elt li-e + had a lot in common #ith* so that #as a#esome. AL ,his #as an incredi!le e>perience* and + do not travel. ,hat is not somethin0 that + en/o doin0. + didn4t have to travel an #here near as $ar as most people that4s the onl reason #h + came !ut a$ter this e>perience* i$ this is #hat !itcoin con$erences are 0onna !e li-e* then +4m 0onna 0et on a plane and +4m 0onna $l #herever the hec- #e need to 0o ne>t time somethin0 li-e this happens. AP So then* ou should come to Nienna. AL + -no#* + -no#* + don4t #anna 0o to 2erman * + don4t #anna 0o to =urope... SM 3ell* ou don4t have to 0o to 2erman * !ecause Nienna4s in AustriaE

AL + don4t #anna 0o to =1.<P=E But it4s <F* m #i$e4s 0onna #or- at (incomprehensible, sorry) $or a #hile* so #e mi0ht $ind ourselves there. 3e mi0ht $ind ourselves in ;e# 5or-* too* +4m $indin0 that + #anna 0o to that* so #e can hit that to0ether. ,hat4ll !e $un. SM Cool. A.A.: ?rom 6st to (rd ;ovem!er* there #ill !e the uns stem.net* + thin- the $ocus #ill !e more political aspects o$ !itcoin* and anarchism* (C printin0* andAL 3ell* the (C printin0 +4m interested in* !ut it4s the technolo0 * + thin-* and the pro/ects that are !ased around J!itcoinK the politics* honestl * + $eel li-e the more #e $ocus on that* the less use$ul it is !ecause it dra#s such ne0ative attention to the #hole thin0. AA 5eah* that4s true. + #ould li-e more !usiness-oriented stu$$* !ut #ho -no#s* it4s 0oin0 to !e a lon0 time until ;ovem!er* #e4ll see ho# that develops. AL 3ell* a0ain* there are other sho#s* there are other con$erences that are 0onna !e startin0 up !e$ore that* so + thin- there4s at least one or t#o !e$ore Nienna. So the !itcoin con$erence ecos stem* this #as reall a proo$ o$ concept that no# is the time* and the people are here* and the colla!orations are here m 0od* the colla!orations. + 0ave a tal- on content moneti9ation and it #as not to a terri!l lar0e room* !ut + had pro!a!l 6@ people $ollo# me out* and & o$ them #anted to !uild the services that + #as sa in0 #e should !uild. SM <h* li-e #hat: AL 3ell* a0ain* m $ocus has !een on a couple o$ thin0s. <ne thin0 #e4ve done #ith the sho# is that #e have these tip #id0ets. ,he pro!lem is that the tip #id0ets are -ind o$ !ro-en* the don4t reall #or- $or ever !od * and even $or the people the do #or- $or* the could !e improved in a num!er o$ #a s* li-e ma-in0 it so that #e could have di$$erent addresses on each o$ the sites that the sho# is posted to* and then #hen donations come in* #e4re a!le to see those. 3e can do that no#* !ut our pro!lem is that our #id0et onl displa s one address at a time* so #e need a #a $or it to ta-e multiple addresses* sum them to0ether and displa the total $or the sho#* !ut still !e a!le to 0ive us in$ormation a!out #here the tips are comin0 $rom. AP ,hat sounds li-e a 0reat implementation $or HC #allets* actuall .

SM <h* ri0ht* eah. AP 5ou can do that #ithout HC #allets* as #ell. SM But ou had someone o$$er to !uild that. AL 3e had someone o$$er to !uild that* nice* !ut no# #e4re tal-in0 #ith the !usiness development 0u at ?lattr* #hich is a microtransaction tippin0 service* !asicall SM 5eah* +4m $amiliar* the use ?.;s there* ri0ht: AL ,he do use ?.;s no#* !ut the 4re loo-in0 to o!solete themselves a0ain* + can4t 0et into too man details* !ut there4s a lot o$ movement in this space ri0ht no#* and + thin- #e4re seein0 the end o$ these proprietar tippin0 services* or these proprietar + don4t #anna name names* !ut the realit is* plat$orms that tr to intercept the value tr to sa Ghe * come and have a #allet on our plat$ormH - + thin- those are 0oin0 the #a o$ the dinosaurs* !ecause the 4re /ust totall unnecessar . AP 3ell* ?lattr in particular* + thin- that has a use in !itcoin. 3hen #e started out tal-in0 a!out !itcoin* a lot o$ people said G!uild a !itcoin ?lattr replacementH* !ecause it4s actuall ver re#ardin0 $or podcasters to have monthl donations in a re0ular #a * and $or the users it4s li-e the are allocatin0 their cultural !ud0et* so the sa G<F* + #ant the $i>ed amountH* and then the are spreadin0 this amount each month* so the don4t have to ta-e care o$ all the divisions and microtransactions and so on. So the /ust have to have such that some o$ them are removed and some o$ them are (indaudible). + thin- that4s a use$ul service* even #ith !itcoin* !ecause ou don4t #ant to send out li-e a hundred di$$erent donations to all the tin thin0s ou4re listenin0 and all !loc-s ou4re readin0. SM 5eah* + #as 0onna sa * is it too earl to start a travel $und: +$ the listeners en/o ed our covera0e o$ this con$erence* the could send us to other con$erences* somethin0 li-e that. AL + thin- that4s de$initel somethin0 #e should !e tal-in0 a!out. But the 0ood ne#s is that in addition to havin0 listener support* it loo-s li-e #e4re 0onna !e a!le to have sponsor support* !ecause a0ain* that #as the other thin0 here this is the start o$ somethin0 !i0* and it4s the start o$ somethin0 !i0 $or !itcoin* !ut #e4re ridin0 the #ave here. +n the press room* one o$ the other out$its that #as there is called B,C"ournal. ,he don4t e>ist et* the start e>istin0 ne>t #ee-. So there4s

competition movin0 into the space* !ut at the same time* /ust !ecause #e have a month4s head start* it4s such an advanta0e. +t4s cra9 ho# much o$ an advanta0e doin0 the sho# $or a month has !een* !ecause it4s 0otten us into so man peoples4 heads. + have a $eelin0 that over the ne>t couple o$ months* #e4re 0onna !e a!le to levera0e this into some reall incredi!le* insi0ht$ul intervie#s that are 0onna !lo# peoples4 minds* and it4s cra9 . ,he people #ho are developin0 these technolo0ies and developin0 these plat$orms have so much vision* and it4s reall eas to 0et stuc- in an echo cham!er and sa Goh man* that4s a 0reat idea no* that4s a 0reat idea no* that's a 0reat ideaH !ut to a certain e>tent* the are. Li-e + said in the !e0innin0 o$ this* #hen ou thro# oursel$ entirel into somethin0* and ou ma-e it all that ou are* it4s hard* !ecause ou can $eel alone. And #hat this sho#ed us is that there4s at least A)) o$ the 6))) attendees here #ho are doin0 e>actl the same thin0* and #ith so man people Buittin0 their /o!s and $ocusin0 all o$ their creative e$$ort and all o$ their time onto these properties and pro/ects* + don4t -no# #hat4s 0onna happen* !ut it4s 0onna !e ama9in0. AP + thin- #e #ill see a #orld #ith ne# services* and that4s 0reat* that4s evolution. +ndustrial revolution &.) or somethin0. AL So that4s a!out all the time #e have $or toni0ht. 3e4re 0oin0 on eleven o4 clocand + certainl have to 0et to !ed. And + -no# that Stephanie4s pro!a!l still on ;e# Hampshire time* soSM +4m on 3est Coast ,ime even #hen +4m on the east coast. + sta up late. AL Have ou ad/usted et Andreas: AP + thin- + #ill /ust s-ip a $e# ni0hts* ma !e* that #ill !e $ine. AL 3ell* 0reat* this #as the most $un +4ve had in a lot o$ ears. And +4ve covered a lot o$ con$erences !e$oreI #e4re doin0 this at the San "ose Convention Centre. + covered 2CC* 2ame Cevelopers4 Convention here $or a num!er o$ ears* and there #ere e>ponentiall less people here* and it #as e>ponentiall more interestin0 than +4ve ever seen it !e$ore. So that4s a!out it $or this episode o$ Let4s ,al- !itcoin. SM 5our poor voice* Adam. +t sounds li-e ra0. So tiredE AL + have !een tal-in0 non-stop $or da s. +t4s cra9 * !ecause ou4re !ouncin0 $rom hour-lon0 conversation to hour-lon0 conversation #ith each person.

" +4m 0onna /ump in* out o$ the peanut 0aller . + can4t resist. AL +t4s "ustice here* "ustice" (Incomprehensible, likely surname) ,he secret to con$erences is to s-ip all o$ the tal-s. Con4t #atch them - the 4ll !e on 5ou,u!e. Ma-e the personal connections* tal- to people - 0et ?ace,ime. All these tal-s the 4re a !ait and s#itch* the 4re an e>cuse $or us to all come and han0 out to0ether. And it4s the personal connections that reall ma-e these con$erences valua!le. AL 5eah* + totall a0ree. AP ;o# ou4ve spoiled it. 5eah* + a!solutel a0ree. And ou should come to our !ooth* M celium. " 5ou have to have ne# users #ho don4t -no# that secret* so that there #ill !e an audience $or the spea-ers* !ut the real secret is Gdon4t 0o to the tal-sH. ,al- to people. Meet people. AL + cau0ht our panel* Stephanie* + cau0ht "ohn Li0ht4s tal-* + cau0ht the alt coin tal- or the alt coin panel* #hich #as prett interestin0I it had some reall interestin0 characters on it. And then + 0ave m tal- on content moneti9ation !ut + thin- !esides that* + didn4t see an thin0. But* ou -no#* 5ou,u!e is a 0reat thin0. AP 5ou can reall see the evolution o$ !itcoin a little !it in the con$erence evolution. + #as at Pra0ue in 8)66* there #ere* + thin- a hundred and $i$t people there* and there #ere people comin0 $rom all over the #orld and then London* and then here* so it4s reall 0ettin0 o$$. .eall e>citin0. AL Ca#n o$ a !rave ne# #orld. AP A!solutel . AL 2oodni0ht. ,han-s $or tunin0 into this special episode o$ Let4s ,al- !itcoin. 3hether ou li-ed* loved or hated the sho#* #e #anna -no# #hat ou thin-. Please send all listener male to adamOletstal-!itcoin.com. Content $or this episode #as provided ! Stephanie Murph * Andreas Petersson* and listener "ustice. Music $or this episode #as provided ! "ared .u!ens. ?or lin-s to his #or-* visit

letstal-!itcoin.comPmusic. 3e4ve 0ot lots o$ content comin0 up* !ut + can4t $or the li$e o$ me tell ou #hat4ll !e out ne>t so +4ve decided to stop ma-in0 0uesses here until #e 0et the editorial calendar up and $unctional. ,han-s so much $or our support. +$ ou4d li-e to donate to the sho#* please visit ###.letstal-!itcoin.com. See ou ne>t time.