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M PRo 4IPA tJ~33
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
Event: Briefing b~ .....k.xpert on mace and pepper spray

Type: Briefing (conference call)

Date: May 5, 2004 /9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

...
Special Access Issues: None

Prepared by: John Raidt

Team: 7

Participants (non-Commissionjf IFederilB. ureau of Investigation; Bob Sinton,

Department of Justice. :'

, Participants (Commissionji John Raidt ~ Bill Johnst\>ne

Location: Conference c~1.

Parties participated in the c~ilfrom several locations
including FBI facilities in Quantico, VA, ~dcommission""9ffices at GSA in Washington,
DC. ',:/ l .
Background

(LESj K~
a special agent with the ~BI who is expert in mace and pepper spray.
The Commission requested to talk with him in regard to reports by passengers/flight
attendants that mace or pepper spray were used on flights hijacked ..on 9/11.
l ..

What is the difference between mace an~ pepper spray? '.

(LES) Traditional mace is a liquid variation of a chemical that can be derived from a
variety of different ,chemicals usually CS or CN. "

(LES) Pepper mace (pepper sprat WhiC~ (s more widely available today.contains a
derivative of the cayenne pepper. indicated that you can buy pepper mace
anywhere. It's sold at camping and sporting goods stores and through magazines,
including for protection against bears. Some areas have regulations on the arno..unt a
civilian can carry. For example, California had such a limitation in the past, but.this has
since been rescinded. .

(LES) There is a civilian market for both CN/CS mace and pepper mace. Although[:J
can't speak for all jurisdictions both mace and pepper spray mace are basically legal
(though as previously indicated, some jurisdictions may limit the amount you can
possess).

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(LES) Residue from either traditional mace or pepper spray mace would be
orange/amber, not white. .

(LES) There are different delivery systems for both products: stream and cone shaped
mist, the former of which allows you to spray toward a specific subject.

What are the telltale impact/signs of mace and pepper spray mace?

(LES) The effects of pepper spray depend upon the spray. Ifit's airborne the victim will
breath it in and experience breathing problems, perhaps coughing. If you were sprayed
directly in the face it will shut your eyes. The substance could also cause nausea or panic; .

(LES) The effects of CN/CS mace (which is less widespread than pepper spray) would
dependupon the vapor. Making a large group of people cough or experience difficulty in
breathing would be easier with pepper spray mace than CN/CS, which is designed more
to spray directly at someone. However, the effect really depends on the particular
product.

Container type?

(LEs)~aid that most of the products he's familiar with come in aluminum or
other t'ypesor'ni~tal cans, nr [!lastiC Using plastic would make it difficult to pressurize
in order to produce a spray. . j
also said most pepper sprays come in holsters that
clip to your pockei':'-.\.. \ .

How do you prntectyourself against, blow back of the substance?

\\ \,
(LES) If you've been exposed to it before you can work through it. When police officers
spray it they get used to i6Jt just depends on the person because everyone reacts
differently to it. You can also protect yourself by using a wet clothe over your nose and
mouth. He indicated that the ..red bandanas reported on Flight 93 could have been used
for such a purpose. .. "

(LES) Depending upon the ventilation of the aircraft, any substance that squeezes
through a small slit in a door or access point would not have as great an impact as in an
open area where it's sprayed. If there is no ventilation it could remain airborne for a
considerable amount of time, perhaps ....
c1ose t'?
an hour.

(LES) It is plausible that mace or peppe·r...spray used in front of a large commercial

aircraft would affect people in the back but it depends on the volume used and the
movement of air and ventilation in the space. \,

Can residue be traced or detected at a crime scene?

(LEsQsaid;thatma~(!Iptpp:rsp~a~ could'be detected at a crime scene but that

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What best suited the .....9!ll"oi;~rations?

(LES)I Ibeii'eved that pepper spray would be better for the terrorists' operation
because it is more readily available, though he reported that either could have produced
the reported effects. He said that it's important to understand that chemical agents don't
work on everyone. Mindset matters, particularly when dealing with people who have
never been exposed to it. He said the fact that passengers reported trouble breathing
rather than coughing did not discount that the substance may have been pepper spray.

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