LETS TALK BITCOIN

Episode 110 Change is Inevitable, but is it Good?

Participants:
Adam B. Levine (ABL) Host
Andreas M. Antonopo!os (AA) Co"#ost
Step#anie Mrp#$ (SM) Co"#ost
AB: Toda$ is Ma$ %&t# '(%) and t#is is Episode %%(. T#is pro*ram is intended +or
in+ormationa! and ed,ationa! prposes on!$. Cr$pto,rren,$ is a ne- +ie!d o+ std$.
Cons!t $or !o,a! +trist. !a-$er and investment advisor /e+ore ma0in* an$ de,isions
-#atsoever +or $orse!+. 1(2%&3
4444444444444444444444444444444444444444444
AB: T#an0s +or 5oinin* s a*ain on Lets Ta!0 Bit,oin. M$ name is Adam B. Levine and
Im 5oined as a!-a$s /$ t#e ot#er #osts o+ t#e Lets Ta!0 Bit,oin s#o-. Andreas
Antonopo!os. 1(26%3
AA: He$ ever$one. 1(26'3
AB: ...and Step#anie Mrp#$. 1(2663
!": Hi. 1(26)3
AB: Its /een a -#i!e sin,e -eve done a #ost re,ordin*. 7e!! s#oo -it# some o+ t#e
norma! /a,0 pattin* and 5mp ri*#t into topi,s. Toda$ is interestin* /e,ase one o+ t#e
#i*#er pro+i!es ,ompanies in t#is spa,e on t#e... (-#at I -o!d ,onsider) t#e entrepreneria!
side. as opposed to t#e idea!ist side. is a ,ompan$ ,a!!ed Cir,!e. !ed /$ CEO 8erem$ A!!aire.
T#e$ raised some mone$ !ast $ear. A,ta!!$. one o+ t#e !ar*est amonts o+ mone$ /e#ind a
Bit,oin ,ompan$ so +ar and toda$. t#e$ nvei!ed t#eir prod,t. In t#e pre"s#o- -#en -e
-ere ta!0in* a/ot t#is. I -as !i0e S#o!d -e even ta!0 a/ot t#is /e,ase I see t#is is
*ettin* ta!0ed a/ot a !ot /t Step#anie. $o #ad prett$ m,# ,omp!ete!$... $o t#in0 t#at t#is
is a /ad t#in* overa!!. T#at -as t#e impression t#at I *ot +rom $o. T#e /asi,s o+ -#at
t#e$re o++erin* is a 0ind o+ -a!!et !i0e servi,e t#ats ver$ simi!ar to Coin/ase. in t#at t#e$
-ant $o to !in0 $or /an0 a,,ont and t#e$ -ant $o to !in0 $or persona! identit$
in+ormation /t. n!i0e Coin/ase. t#e$ dont #ave an$ de!a$s on an$ o+ $or pr,#ases. I+
$o #oo0 p a ,redit ,ard to $or Cir,!e a,,ont. and t#en $o -ant to /$ 9'(( -ort# o+
Bit,oin. t#en $o 5st do it and t#en it ,redits to $or a,,ont immediate!$. and $o ,an
spend it immediate!$ -#i,# is ver$ di++erent t#an somet#in* !i0e Coin/ase -#ere t#eres
sa!!$ !i0e a ' or 6 da$ -ait +or t#e mone$ to move sa+e!$ +rom do!!ars into /it,oin. T#ere
are some ot#er t#in*s too. /t Step#anie. ,an $o *ive me $or perspe,tive on t#e Cir,!e
t#in*: 7#at dont $o !i0e a/ot t#is: 1%2;&3
!": I -o!dnt sa$ I t#in0 its a /ad t#in* overa!!. its 5st Im not sre its somet#in* Id /e
interested in sin*. It seems !i0e prett$ m,# a /an0. -it# Bit,oin. T#e$ are *oin* to /e
ad5stin* t#e vo,a/!ar$ to tr$ to ma0e it more pa!ata/!e to peop!e. so instead o+ /$in* and
se!!in* Bit,oin. its *oin* to /e deposits and -it#dra-a!s. T#e$ -i!! /e mana*in* peop!es
private 0e$s. 5st !i0e Coin/ase and I t#in0 -e a!! nderstand t#e pro/!ems -it# someone e!se
#o!din* on to $or private 0e$s -#en $ore ta!0in* a/ot Bit,oin. T#e$. -#o #o!d t#e
private 0e$s. #ave ,ontro! over t#e ,oins. T#is isnt m,# di++erent t#an a /an0 t#at ,an 5st
+ree<e $or a,,ont. or sei<e $or +nds -it#ot $o #avin* to sa$ an$t#in* a/ot it. T#e$
did a!so sa$ t#e$ are *oin* to /e strin*ent!$ reportin* an$/od$ t#e$ sspe,t o+ i!!e*a! a,tivit$.
T#e$ pro/a/!$ 5st said t#at to appease t#e re*!ators. or -#atever /t #o- are t#e$ *oin* to
/e te!!in* -#os en*a*ed in so ,a!!ed =sspi,ios a,tivit$ and -#at de+ines it: T#e$ dont
rea!!$ sa$. 1'2;>3
AA: B$ i!!e*a! a,tivit$. Im assmin* t#e$ mean #i*# +re?en,$ tradin*. !endin* -it#ot
,o!!atera!. ,#eatin* on t#e sto,0 mar0et. or do t#e$ mean /$in* p!ants: 162(@3
!": (La*#ter) 7e!!. t#e$ dont eAa,t!$ sa$ a/ot t#at and a!! t#e$ sspe,t o+ sspi,ios
a,tivit$ is *oin* to /e reported. T#is is eAa,t!$ !i0e -#at t#e /an0s do. I+ $o do a
transa,tion t#ats over 96.((( in t#e BS -e tr$ not to /e BS",entri, on t#is s#o- /t t#e BS
#as some o+ t#e most stri,t /an0in* re*!ations. some ar*e -#at t#e point o+ t#em is. in t#e
-or!d. T#e$re pro/a/!$ *oin* to /e +o!!o-in* a!! t#ese to t#e !etter /e,ase t#e$re *oin* to
/e a !i,ensed mone$ transmitter and prett$ m,# a,tin* as a /an0. T#e ot#er t#in* t#at t#e$
sa$. a/ot t#at. is t#at t#e$re re?ired to #o!d a!! t#e +nds in reserve and t#e$re re?ired to
#ave aditin*. and so +ort# and prove t#at t#e$ #ave a!! t#e +nds. and not /e a/!e to invest
t#em +or t#eir o-n prposes. T#e$ sa$ t#at its *oin* to /e +ree o+ ,#ar*e +or peop!e to store
/it,oins. It sonds !i0e Cea#. 5st *ive s $or /it,oins. -e!! #o!d on to t#em +or +ree.
(La*#ter) 1)2('3
AB: 7e!!. and /e$ond t#at. t#e$re even *oin* to insre t#em. I dont 0no- i+ $o sa-
t#at part o+ it... 1)2(&3
!": Ces. 1)2(&3
AB: .../t $ea#. t#eres +ree insran,e too. T#is is somet#in* !i0e Ive /een sper"eA,ited
a/ot insran,e ,omin* to t#is spa,e /e,ase it means t#at -#en $o #ave insran,e. $o
#ave standards /e,ase i+ t#ere is t#e+t or !oss. t#en t#e insran,e ,ompan$ a,ta!!$ #as to
ma0e t#at t#in* ri*#t. #as to +i!! t#e *ap +rom t#eir o-n side o+ it. Its ver$ m,# in t#eir /est
interest not to #ave t#at. 1)2'>3
!": T#e t#in* t#at $o ,ant *et insran,e +rom is *overnment ,on+is,ation o+ $or +nds or
i+ t#e$ /e!ieve t#at $ore sspi,ios. $o 0no-. !o,0in* t#em do-n. or -#atever. M$
,on,ern a/ot t#is 0ind o+ servi,e is t#at its *oin* to enti,e a !ot o+ peop!e to pt t#eir
/it,oins in t#e servi,e. or t#eir do!!ars. or -#atever pt t#eir +nds in t#e servi,e /e,ase
its insred and its +ree and O#. 5st trst s. T#en. it #as a!! t#e strin*s atta,#ed o+ a
,onventiona! /an0 -#ere t#e$ ,an report $o +or an$ reason and t#e$ ,an den$ servi,e. or
-#atever. Deop!e are *oin* to #ave t#eir /it,oins in t#ere and t#en t#e$ -ont #ave ,ontro!
over t#eir o-n +nds. and t#en -#ats t#e point: T#ats not Bit,oin. Bit,oin is -#en $o
#ave ,ontro! over $or o-n mone$ in a -a$ t#at $o dont in t#e ,onventiona! /an0in*
s$stem. T#ats rea!!$ m$ ,on,ern -it# it. 1;2%'3
AB: Im !oo0in* t#ro*# t#eir se,rit$ +eatres #ere and it does sa$ t#e$ #ave a m!ti"si*
ar,#ite,tre -#i,# means t#at more t#an one 0e$ is needed in order to si*n somet#in* /t t#e
-a$ t#at its des,ri/ed #ere ma0es it seem !i0e... it sa$s 7e emp!o$ m!ti"si*natre
transa,tions. T#e p#$si,a! iso!ation o+ 0e$s means t#e a/i!it$ to spend +nds re?ires -o!d"
/e atta,0ers to /rea,# m!tip!e se,re !o,ations. T#e +a,t t#at t#e$re sa$in* se,re !o,ations
a,ta!!$ does 0ind o+ spport -#at $ore sa$in* -#i,# is t#at t#e$ #o!d a!! t#e pie,es o+ t#e
0e$s. and 5st simp!i+$ t#at entire!$. it seems !i0e. 1;2)'3
!": Cea#. Co mi*#t /e one o+ t#e si*natres /t t#e$ are t#e ot#er ones and so. $o ,ant
move $or mone$ -it#ot t#eir permission. A*ain. #o- is t#at di++erent +rom a /an0: It
ma$ /e s!i*#t!$ +aster. 1;2;%3
AA: Can t#e$ move t#e mone$ -it#ot $or permission: So -#o #as t#e ma5orit$: 1;2;;3
AB: EAa,t!$. Ho- man$ 0e$s are t#ere: Eo $o ,ontro! eno*# to prevent a,tion +rom
#appenin* !a,0in* $or eAp!i,it permission: 1>2(63
AA: I t#in0 t#eres room in t#e mar0et +or Coin/ase ,ompetitors and t#ere are siA /i* /an0s
ot t#ere t#at are eventa!!$ *oin* to *et into Bit,oin. T#e$re *oin* to need to a,?ire
eAistin* Bit,oin /an0s t#at a!read$ do t#is re!ative!$ -e!!. so no- t#eres t-o. 7e need +or
more. A!! o+ t#em #ave a ni,e pat# to eAit /e,ase -it#in a $ear or t-o. t#e /i* /an0s are
*oin* to *et into t#is and t#en t#is /siness is *oin* to /e #and!ed /$ peop!e -it# m,# more
,apita!. a,,ess to re*!ators and po!iti,ians and !o//$ists to do it. T#is is a dead"end /siness
n!ess $o intend to se!! to one o+ t#e /i* siA /an0s and. as +ar as Im ,on,erned. t#at seems
to me to /e t#e via/!e eAit +or a!! o+ t#ese /sinesses and a!! t#e po-er to t#em. T#e$ -i!!
ma0e some mone$F t#e$ -i!! /rin* some peop!e into Bit,oin /$ ma0in* t#e on"ramps easier.
T#e$re ,ertain!$ *oin* to ma0e it easier +or more traditiona!. more ,onservative /sinesses
t#at !i0e t#e ,rrent /an0in* s$stem +or -#i,# t#e ,rrent /an0in* s$stem is -or0in* +ine.
Deop!e -#o -ant to se!! tear *as and r//er /!!ets to di,tators and not *et reported. t#e$!!
/e +ine. T#ats *oin* to /e a *reat avene to rep!i,ate t#e eAistin* /an0in* s$stem. Someone
#as to tr$ and maintain t#e stats ?o /$ /i!din* rep!i,as o+ t#e stats ?o in t#e ne-
paradi*m. at !east in t#e transient period. 7e sed to #ave +aA to emai! *ate-a$s. T#at sed
to /e a ver$ pro+ita/!e and *ood /siness +or #e!pin* t#ose -#o rea!!$ ,o!dnt *ive p t#eir
+aAes to ,onvert t#em into emai!s. T#ose rea!!$ arent in se m,# an$more /e,ase peop!e
5st *ave p on t#e idea o+ +aAes as a -#o!e. 1&2)&3
AB: T#ese are /rid*e servi,es rea!!$. 1&2)G3
AA: Brid*e servi,es. eAa,t!$. Co need /rid*e servi,es -it# an$ ne- te,#no!o*$. Co need
to +ami!iari<e peop!e +or -#om ,#an*e is t#reatenin*. Hor some o+ s. t#e stats ?o is
t#reatenin*. T#e stats ?o is disastros. ris0$. t#reatenin*. +reedom"sappin*. #orri/!e.
ne?a! and evi!. Hor some peop!e. t#e stats ?o is -or0in* 5st +ine and ,#an*e is
t#reatenin* and evi! and so. t#is +its ver$ -e!! and -i!! a,ta!!$ serve a need and -i!! serve a
ver$ /i* mar0et ot t#ere. It ,o!d a,ta!!$ ma0e it easier to *et more instittiona! investors.
to *et more ,onservative mainstream /sinesses into Bit,oin and t#e$ -i!! /e a/!e to in,rease
!i?idit$ -#i,# -i!! red,e vo!ati!it$. T#e$!! /e a/!e to sta/i!i<e pri,esF t#e$!! /e a/!e to
introd,e more peop!e. more easi!$ to Bit,oin and t#en. its p to s to persade t#ese peop!e
t#at t#e$re /etter o++ ta0in* t#at Bit,oin and movin* it to -a!!ets t#e$ ,ontro!. -#i,# t#e$!!
/e a/!e to do. 1@2;%3
AB: T#ats eAa,t!$ ri*#t is t#at at t#e ,ore. t#is is ,ompetition. T#is is... Coin/ase rea!!$
#asnt #ad m,#. 1@2;&3
AA: EAa,t!$. 1@2;&3
AB: T#e$ 0ind o+ ,ompete -it# BitDa$ in t#eir mer,#ant servi,es /t ot#er t#an t#at. its
5st /een t#em. No-. Cir,!e #as ,ome ot and said OK. -eve ta0en $or mode! and
/asi,a!!$. are doin* a!! o+ t#e t#in*s s!i*#t!$ di++erent!$ and its a !itt!e /it /etter +or end sers.
T#ats one o+ t#e t#in*s t#at rea!!$ 5mped ot at me a/ot t#is Coin/ase doesnt ta0e a !ot
o+ ris0. Coin/ase is a +air!$ ,onservative ,ompan$ -#en it ,omes to t#e -a$ t#at t#e$
pro,ess in,omin* transa,tions /e,ase t#e$. /asi,a!!$. #ave a ,omp!ete ,aptre on t#eir
mar0et " t#e a/i!it$ to reverse /an0 -ires and t#in*s !i0e t#at. T#e$ #ave a !ot o+ ,ontro! over
t#at st++ /t t#e$ sti!! -ait at !east ' or 6 da$s. even i+ $ore a ,stomer doin* a +air amont
o+ /siness -it# t#em /e+ore somet#in* !i0e t#at -i!! *o t#ro*#. -#ereas -it# Cir,!e.
!itera!!$. as soon as $ove pressed t#e /tton. $or a,,ont is ,redited. Co #ave t#e /it,oinF
$o ,an spend t#e /it,oin as /it,oin -#erever $o -ant. T#at seems !i0e t#ats #*e. 1G2);3
!": Ho- is t#at *oin* to -or0 +or t#em: 1G2)&3
AB: T#is is -#$ t#e$ need a!! t#e ris0 assessment and -#$ t#e$ need to 0no- t#eir
,stomers is /e,ase. to a ,ertain eAtent. BitInstant did t#is a !itt!e /it t#e$ -o!d eAtend
,redit. t#ats #o- t#e$ -ere doin* it. T#e$ -ere p!a$in* t#e ro!e o+ someone -#o -as a/!e to
-ait t#ose 6 or ) da$s +or t#e mone$ to a,ta!!$ *o via -ire. or as man$ as %( da$s /t t#e$
provide t#e servi,e to t#eir ,stomer /$ ma0in* it so t#e$ dont #ave to do t#at. Its t#e same
t#in* #ere. I t#in0. 1%(2%(3
!": It sonds !i0e Cir,!e is a!read$ *oin* to #ave a!! o+ $or mone$ and t#en $o ,an
-it#dra- some o+ it as Bit,oin /t t#e$ve a!read$ *ot $or mone$. so -#at do t#e$ ,are
/e,ase t#e$ dont #ave to -ait. ri*#t: 1%(2%G3
AA: 7e!!. no not ne,essari!$ /e,ase $o ,o!d reverse a reversi/!e do!!ar transa,tion. so
t#e$ #ave t#at ris0. 1%(2'&3
!": No. /t i+ t#e$ a!read$ #ave it. i+ t#e$re #o!din* onto $or do!!ars in $or Cir,!e
a,,ont and t#en $o -ant to -it#dra- some o+ it in t#e +orm o+ Bit,oin... 1%(26;3
AB: T#e$re not #o!din* onto $or do!!ars. T#ats not #o- t#is -or0s. 1%(26@3
!": OK. 1%(26G3
AB: 7#at #appens is t#at $o ,an /$ Bit,oin +rom t#em... t#e -a$ t#at Coin/ases mar0et
-or0s is t#at $o ,an /$ it +rom Coin/ase. or $o ,an se!! it to Coin/ase. $o ,an never #o!d
do!!ars. I+ $o #ave it on t#e Coin/ase p!at+orm. it is /$ de+inition #e!d in Bit,oin. I+ $o
ta0e it ot o+ t#e Coin/ase p!at+orm t#ro*# t#eir do!!ar -it#dra-a! pro,ess. it is /$ de+inition
so!d +or do!!ars and on!$ t#e do!!ars are trans+erred to $o. T#ats #o- t#e$ *et arond a !ot
o+ t#e !i,ensin* is /e,ase t#e$re not doin* mone$ trans+er. T#e$re essentia!!$. /ro0ers.
1%%2(G3
AA: Ii*#t. so Cir,!e is apparent!$ *oin* to /e -or0in* in m,# t#e same -a$ -#i,# means
t#at in t#e period /et-een $o initiatin* an ACH and t#at ACH /ein* non"reversi/!e. i+ t#e$
*ive $o Bit,oin drin* t#at period. t#e$re eAposin* t#emse!ves to ris0. Bein* eAposed to
ris0 is not ne,essari!$ a /ad t#in*. as !on* as t#e$ ,an measre. a,,ont +or and ,ontain t#at
ris0. t#en ta0in* t#at ris0 is a ,ompetitive di++erentiator and a -a$ +or t#em to improve
servi,e. I t#in0 t#ats a rea!!$ smart move. I see t#at as a *reat -a$ to #ave a /it o+
di++erentiation in t#at mar0et. I a*ree -it# $o Adam. B$ t#e -a$. Im a Coin/ase ,stomer.
I dont 0eep m$ Bit,oin t#ere /t I ,ertain!$ se t#em ver$. ver$ re*!ar!$ to /$ and se!!
Bit,oin +or do!!ars. not /e,ase Im da$ tradin* (Im not interested in t#at) /t /e,ase I need
to pa$ ,ertain /i!!s t#at ,an on!$ /e paid in do!!ars and sometimes I *et paid in do!!ars and I
-ant to ,onvert it to Bit,oin and so. I se t#em -it# m$ /an0 a,,ont a!! t#e time. One o+ t#e
+ears Ive #ad. +or t#e !ast $ear. is i+ Im *ettin* paid in /it,oins and most o+ m$ in,ome is in
/it,oins and I #ave ,ertain eApenses t#at I ,ant do in /it,oins. !i0e pa$in* m$ rent. t#en -#at
#appens i+ Coin/ase *ets s#t do-n. or i+ t#e$ #ave a pro/!em and t#e$ ,ant +!+i! orders.
T#en. I #ave to move a !ar*e amont o+ mone$ t#ro*# Lo,a!Bit,oins. or !o,a! traders. or
-#o 0no-s -#at e!se. or t#ro*# -ire trans+ers t#ro*# BitStamp -#i,# is s!o-er and more
,omp!i,ated. T#ats a ris0. T#ats somet#in* t#at ma0es me n,om+orta/!e. Its one o+ t#e
areas t#at I -as -orried a/ot so. Im a,ta!!$ rea!!$ *!ad to #ave potentia!!$. in t#e ver$ near
+tre. t-o ,ompetin* servi,es. I!! #ave a,,onts on /ot# and t#at -a$ I -i!! #ave t-o
ot!ets +or ,onvertin* m$ Bit,oin into do!!ars. or vi,e versa. 1%62(>3
!": Bt $ore not *oin* to 0eep $or /it,oins in t#ere: 1%62(@3
AA: Bt Im not *oin* to 0eep m$ /it,oins in t#ere eit#er. No. Im *oin* to 0eep ,ontro!
over m$ private 0e$s. Im *oin* to se t#em on!$ as an eA,#an*e and as soon as I *et
/it,oins into /it,oins. Im *oin* to move t#em ot and 0eep t#em nder m$ ,ontro!. 1%62''3
AB: T#ats t#e midd!e *rond #ere is sin* t#e servi,es +or -#at t#e$re intended to /e
-it#ot ne,essari!$ sin* t#em +or a!! o+ t#e +eatres t#at t#e$ -is# t#at $o -o!d se.
7#en $o !oo0 at a !ot o+ t#e /siness mode!s t#at are ,ir,!in* arond. t#in*s !i0e eA,#an*es
and even -a!!ets. a !ot o+ it is ana!$ti,s data. a !ot o+ it is a/ot #o- peop!e are sin* t#ese
too!s t#ats *oin* to -ind p /ein* ver$ va!a/!e and t#at peop!e are tr$in* to /i!d t#ese
t#in*s arond. Cir,!e. part o+ t#eir t#in* is t#at t#e$ a!so o++er i+ $o *o /$ somet#in* at
Oversto,0 in t#eir eAamp!e video. t#e$ s#o- Oversto,0 -#i,# #as Coin/ase inte*rated and it
s#o-s a Bit,oin address and $o ,!i,0 on t#e Bit,oin address and t#e$ #ave it set p so t#at it
!oads $or Cir,!e -a!!et on t#e -e/ pa*e. Co 5st pa$ +or it t#ro*# t#ere. I+ $o do
ever$t#in* t#ro*# t#is -a!!et. t#en $ea#. potentia!!$ t#eres an isse. Its a!! o++ /!o,0,#ain
too. I mean t#ats t#e t#in* is t#ere are no transa,tion +ees +or an$t#in*. At !east. I t#in0 t#ats
-#at t#e video said. I!! #ave to *o /a,0 and ,#e,0 it a*ain to ma0e sre Im not tota!!$
-ron* on t#at. T#e sa/i!it$ side o+ it. I t#in0 t#ats t#e most interestin* part to me. T#e
introd,tion o+ insran,e t#is is t#e +irst insred -a!!et t#at -eve seen. espe,ia!!$ one t#at
doesnt ,ost an$t#in* /t i+ its avai!a/!e no-. t#en its t#e +irst one t#ats even ot t#ere. T#e
sa/i!it$ o+ it. t#e +a,t t#at peop!e no !on*er #ave to -ait da$s. or #ors. or -#atever +or a
transa,tion and t#at Cir,!e -i!! on/oard t#e ris0 +or t#em. T#is seems !i0e its 5st part o+ t#e
natra! matration pro,ess. -#at -ere *oin* t#ro*#. 1%)2);3
AA: T#eres a ran*e +rom ,omp!ete!$ ,entra!i<ed servi,es to ,omp!ete!$ de,entra!i<ed
servi,es. Bp to no-. -eve on!$ /een a/!e to operate in t#e entire!$ ,entra!i<ed part o+ t#at
ran*e. Bit,oin and ot#er ,r$pto,rren,ies open p t#e possi/i!it$ o+ operatin* a,ross t#e
ran*e +rom ,omp!ete!$ ,entra!i<ed to ,omp!ete!$ de,entra!i<ed. No-. ,omp!ete!$
de,entra!i<ed is not eas$ eit#er. It invo!ves. in some -a$s. /ein* $or o-n /an0. as t#e
s!o*an *oes and t#at invo!ves some di++i,!t$. Cor avera*e ser toda$. *iven t#e eAistin*
te,#no!o*$ in *enera! prpose operatin* s$stems -i!! +ind it #ard to se,re t#eir /it,oins
ade?ate!$ to avoid t#e+t -it# or eAistin* Bit,oin te,#no!o*$. T#at sti!! needs to advan,e
and so. +or t#e time /ein*. sin* Bit,oin in a ,omp!ete!$ de,entra!i<ed +as#ion is /ot#
,m/ersome +or ne- sers and not parti,!ar!$ se,re +or ne- sers. Hor po-er sers. +or
peop!e -#o #ave eAperien,e. its somet#in* t#at is /ot# desira/!e and t#at -e ,an a,#ieve and
so -e ,an operate in t#at spe,trm. Hor some sers. a ,entra!i<ed servi,e is a,ta!!$ sa+er /t
it a!so ta0es a-a$ a !ot o+ t#e po-er and ,ontro! over $or mone$. T#ats a de,ision ea,#
ser needs to ma0e. No-. i+ -ere interested in promotin* t#e de,entra!i<ed aspe,ts o+
Bit,oin. -eve *ot to do t-o t#in*s. 7eve *ot to ma0e it a #e!! o+ !ot easier +or simp!e sers
to se it se,re!$ and t#en. -e #ave to spread t#e messa*e o+ -#$ a de,entra!i<ed so!tion is
speriorF -#$ it s,a!es /etter. -#$ it ,an rea,# more peop!e arond t#e -or!d -#o do not
#ave a,,ess to ,entra!i<ed servi,es /e,ase t#ose impose /rea,rati, re?irements t#at
man$ peop!e ,ant +!+i! and ,ontro!s t#at man$ peop!e dont -ant to #ave and -#$ its
sperior in terms o+ +reedom. -#$ its sperior in terms o+ empo-erin* individa!s. In order
to do t#at. -e a!so #ave to ma0e it easier. so -e #ave a ,ase to ma0e and Cir,!e is ma0in* t#e
opposite ,ase and t#e$re ma0in* it prett$ -e!!. T#ose o+ s -#o are interested in
de,entra!i<ed Bit,oin need to step p or *ame and I t#in0 t#ats *ood +or ever$one. 1%&2('3
AB: T#is is a prett$ impressive prod,t. I #ave to te!! $o. I+ it -or0s as /i!!ed and as t#eir
video seems to demonstrate. t#is rea!!$ is a s/stantia! t#reat to Coin/ase /e,ase t#e$ /ot#
#ave t#e identit$ pro/!ems. i+ $o ,onsider it a pro/!em. A*ain. 5st t#e sa/i!it$ o+ t#e one
rea!!$ seems !i0e its... t#e$ !earned a !ot +rom -#at peop!e didnt !i0e a/ot Coin/ase.
1%&2'%3
AA: Its a positive t#in* +or Bit,oin. A!! o+ t#ese t#in*s are positive t#in*s +or Bit,oin.
1%&2'>3
AB: T#ats t#e t#in* t#o*#. Andreas. T#at +ee!s !i0e it 5st doesnt even need to *o stated
/e,ase a!! o+ t#is is de +a,to a positive t#in* +or Bit,oin. T#is is more mone$ /ein* invested
in t#e e,os$stem. more peop!e ,arin* a/ot t#e t$pes o+ te,#no!o*ies and more -or0 /ein*
done to deve!op t#e ideas. Cea#. a/so!te!$. I ,omp!ete!$ a*ree. T#is is t#e natra! pro,ess
and its a ver$ *ood part o+ it. 1%&2);3
AA: Cea# and i+ one da$. a $ear or t-o +rom no-. t#is /e,omes Cir,!e C#ase verss 7e!!s
Coin/ase Har*o. 1%&2;>3
!": Cea#. t#ose !o*os are a!read$ a !itt!e simi!ar. ##: 1%&2;&3
AA: Cea#. t#en t#at -i!! /e OK too /e,ase t#en. it -i!! /ot# /e o/vios -#at ,#oi,es are
/ein* made #ere and -#at t#is resem/!es so $o ,an ma0e t#e ,#oi,es a,,ordin* to $or
ideo!o*$. or $or ,on,ern a/ot ,entra!i<ation. It -i!! a!so represent t#e arriva! o+ Bit,oin in
t#e mainstream. T#is is one o+ t#e +irst steps. 7#en -e *o mainstream. -e di!te prin,ip!es.
T#at is a!-a$s somet#in* t#at #appens in te,#no!o*$. T#e ?estion is -#et#er di!tin* t#ose
prin,ip!es is a ,#oi,e or -#et#er di!tin* t#ose prin,ip!es is somet#in* t#at ,#an*es t#e ,ore
ar,#ite,tre. in -#i,# ,ase its no !on*er a ,#oi,e. 1%@26&3
!": Cea#. t#ats a *reat point. 1%@26G3
AA: T#is doesnt ,#an*e t#e ,ore ar,#ite,tre. so its a ,#oi,e. I+ $o -ant to +o!!o- $or
prin,ip!es o+ de,entra!i<ation. $o ,an se t#is as a too!. maintain ,ontro! o+ $or /it,oins and
no- #ave an eAtra avene +or !i?idit$. I t#in0 t#ats *reat. 1%@2;'3
!": Andreas. I t#in0 $ove /ro*#t p a *reat point t#at I 5st -ant to ma0e sre -e
#i*#!i*#t t#o*# /e,ase it #asnt ,#an*ed t#e ,ore prin,ip!es $et. /t i+ it *ets /i* eno*#.
t#ere is a!-a$s t#at potentia! t#at Cir,!e -i!! /e. or servi,es !i0e it. or C#ase Cir,!e. or
-#atever. -i!! /e di,tatin* -#at #appens -it# t#e ,ore Bit,oin proto,o!. I 5st -onder #o-
!on* is it *oin* to /e a+ter t#is point /e+ore its radi,a! to rn $or o-n Bit,oin -a!!et on $or
,ompter. or to even rn t#e Bit,oin JT ,!ient. or somet#in* !i0e t#at. Ho- radi,a! is it
*oin* to /e to /e a node. or -#atever. in t#e +tre: 1%G2'@3
AA: I t#in0 t#at ?estion is ans-ered more easi!$ /$ nm/ers -#i,# is t#at it is inevita/!e
t#at ,entra!i<ed so!tions ,annot rea,# t#e nm/er o+ peop!e -#o ,an /e served /$
de,entra!i<ed so!tions. 7e #ave t#e advanta*e o+ s,a!e on t#e side o+ de,entra!i<ed
so!tions. T#e reason siA /i!!ion peop!e are nderserved /$ /an0in* is not /e,ase t#e$re
not pro+ita/!e ,stomers. its not /e,ase t#e$ dont #ave mone$ and its not /e,ase t#e$
dont #ave need +or /an0in* servi,es. Its /e,ase t#e ver$ natre o+ t#ese ,entra!i<ed
/an0in* so!tions ,annot serve t#em. ,annot eAtend t#eir rea,# to serve t#em. Its t#e reason
t#at '.; /i!!ion dont #ave /an0 a,,onts at a!!. In man$ ,ases. it #as not#in* to do -it#
te,#no!o*$F it #as ever$t#in* to do -it# po!iti,s. Ee,entra!i<ed Bit,oin -i!! /etter serve a +ar
/roader nm/er o+ peop!e t#an ,entra!i<ed Bit,oin. 7e ,an -in t#at ar*ment simp!$ /$
servin* more peop!e and empo-erin* t#em more t#an t#e ,entra!i<ed so!tions. Even i+
ever$one in Nort# Ameri,a sed on!$ ,entra!i<ed so!tions !i0e Cir,!e and Coin/ase. t#en -e
,#an*e t#e entire ,onversation to Mandarin and start a*ain. and t#en -e ,#an*e t#at entire
,onversation to Bra<i!ian and Dort*ese and start a*ain. and -e 0eep doin* t#at. T#ere are
man$ peop!e ot t#ere -#o. not on!$ are not /ein* served /$ ,entra!i<ed /an0in* /t ,annot
/e served /$ ,entra!i<ed /an0in* in Bit,oin. or an$ ,rren,$. 1'%2%%3
AB: One o+ t#e parti,!ar!$ interestin* parts a/ot t#is parti,!ar isse to me is t#at Cir,!e
is a/!e to do a!! t#is st++ /e,ase t#e$ raised 96(m +rom. essentia!!$. t#e !e*a,$ +inan,ia!
s$stem. !i0e KCs t#at are on t#at side o+ t#in*s. 7#at Im rea!!$ ,rios a/ot is -#ats t#e
+irst ,ompan$ *oin* to !oo0 !i0e t#at raises 96(m +rom t#e ne- t$pe o+ paradi*m t#at -ere
ta!0in* a/ot: I+ t#is is -#ats possi/!e movin* +rom Coin/ase -it#... I ,ant re,a!! #o-
m,# t#e$ raised... Im terri/!e -it# t#ese nm/ers... Cir,!e ,omin* a!on* and
overs#ado-in* t#em -it# t#is !ar*er raise t#at a!!o-s t#em to do t#ese ot#er t#in*s and /e
*eneros in t#ese spe,i+i, -a$s. -#at #appens -#en $o ta0e t#e !e*a,$ ot o+ it /t $o
!eave t#e resor,es and t#e drive t#ere: Im ver$ ,rios. 1'%2;63
!": 7e mi*#t not ever see t#at /e,ase ma$/e its not needed. Ho- m,# KC +ndin* did
B!o,0,#ain.in+o #ave to raise to /e*in: None. 1''2((3
AB: B!o,0,#ain.in+o is a -e/site. Its /e,ome a /i* -e/site /t t#ere are di++eren,es in t#e
t$pes o+ pro5e,ts -ere ta!0in* a/ot. 1''2(>3
!": Bt t#e$re a de,entra!i<ed servi,e. 1''2(>3
AA: Ces. /t I t#in0 t#e /i**er ar*ment is are -e ta!0in* a/ot raisin* mone$ +rom
traditiona! KCs +or de,entra!i<ed servi,es. or are -e ta!0in* a/ot de,entra!i<ed servi,es
raisin* de,entra!i<ed mone$ +rom a de,entra!i<ed ,ommnit$ /e,ase I t#in0 t#ats even
more po-er+!. 1''2'63
AB: EAa,t!$. 1''2')3
AA: T#ere are di++erent mode!s. 7#at -e sa- #ere is t#e ,entra!i<ed servi,e raisin*
,entra!i<ed !e*a,$ mone$ and imp!ement a ,entra!i<ed servi,e. 7ere *oin* to see
de,entra!i<ed servi,es raisin* mone$ +rom KCs too t#ro*# traditiona! means /t -#at *ets
rea!!$ interestin* is -#en $o stop raisin* mone$ t#ro*# traditiona! means !i0e KCs and $o
do t#in*s !i0e a di*ita! ,rren,$"/ased IDOs and *!o/a! s#are#o!der o++erin*s. T#ose are
,omin* too. T#e$ ,o!d /e /i**er and m,#. m,# more s,a!a/!e t#an an$ o+ t#e t#in*s
-eve seen /e+ore. 1''2;&3
!": A*ain. I t#in0 -e rea!!$ #ave to #i*#!i*#t t#e te,#no!o*ies t#at -e #ave !i0e
B!o,0,#ain.in+o /t a!so Lo,a!Bit,oins. T#e$ didnt raise an$ ,apita! to start. t#e$ 5st pt p
a -e/site and ma$/e t#ose te,#no!o*ies are ver$ po-er+! too. Lo,a!Bit,oins is a *!o/a!
t#in*. 1'62%'3
AA: Co ,o!d s,a!e /etter. T#ats t#e t#in*. Ee,entra!i<ed servi,es s,a!e /etter and
t#ere+ore ,an *ro- or*ani,a!!$ to s,a!e -it# ver$ !itt!e +ndin* and *enerate t#eir o-n
momentm. 1'62'63
!": T#e point I -anted to ma0e is is most o+ t#e +ndin* to appease re*!ators and to dea!
-it# ,omp!ian,e ,osts. and t#at 0ind o+ t#in*: Is it possi/!e to ,t some o+ t#at ot i+ $o
dont need to dea! -it# t#at st++: 1'626;3
AA: A/so!te!$. I t#in0 t#ats a/so!te!$ tre. Step#anie. T#e de,entra!i<ed servi,es #ave a
!o- operatin* ,ost. Not on!$ do t#e$ s,a!e /etter. t#e$ #ave a !ot !o-er operatin* ,ost
/e,ase t#e$re not /asi,a!!$ dan,in* t#e re*!ator$ *ame. -#i,# is a /arrier to entr$ -#i,#
is ver$ arti+i,ia! and is desi*ned more to prote,t in,m/ent /an0s +rom ,ompetition t#an it is
to prote,t ,onsmers. No matter -#at peop!e ma$ sa$ a/ot it. t#e rea!it$ is t#at it -or0s at
prote,tin* in,m/ents +rom ,ompetition more t#an prote,t ,onsmers in pra,ti,e. as -eve
seen repeated!$ over t#e !ast +ive $ears. T#e ?estion is. do $o rea!!$ need to raise mone$ to
do t#at. or -o!d $o instead /e raisin* mone$ to do innovation: Cir,!e #as some innovation
/t t#e$ #ave re*!ator$ innovation and re*!ator$ ,apita! more t#an an$t#in* e!se. 1')2'63
4444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444
A#$E%&:
Kr$ptoKit is t#e -or!ds +irst C#rome /ro-ser Bit,oin -a!!et. Its t#e easiest. +astest Bit,oin
-a!!et pa$ment s$stem -it# a simp!e one ,!i,0 insta!!. it ta0es 5st se,onds to *et $or -a!!et
set p and /e,ase Kr$ptoKit +inds t#e address and pa$ment +or $o. t#eres no more +ssin*
arond or ta/ s-it,#in*. Kr$ptoKit is more t#an 5st a -a!!et. It ,omes -it# a pre"!oaded
DLD en,r$pted so,ia! net-or0. ne-s+eeds +rom Ieddit and Loo*!e and p to date ,#arts +rom
eA,#an*es. Hina!!$. Kr$ptoKit dire,tor$ a!!o-s $o to ma0e t-o ,!i,0 pa$ments -it# an$ o+
t#e BitDa$ mer,#ants. On,e $o insta!! Kr$ptoKit. $o -ont need an$t#in* e!se. Hor more
in+ormation. or to do-n!oad Kr$ptoKit. visit ---.Kr$ptoKit.,om. 1';2(%3
A''()'CE"E'&:
He$ ever$/od$. a ?i,0 pdate /e+ore -e *et /a,0 to t#e s#o-. T#e !ast +e- mont#s. -eve
/een -or0in* on improvin* t#e -a$s $o ,an a,,ess LTB ,ontent. A +e- da$s a*o. -e
!an,#ed t#e ne- -e/ p!at+orm at ---.LetsTa!0Bit,oin.,om -#i,#. ri*#t no-. !oo0s !i0e a
*rap#i,a!. ,!ean +ront pa*e /t. more important!$. -i!! servi,e or p!at+orm over t#e neAt
nm/er o+ $ears to #ave do<ens o+ +ront pa*es ,reated !i0e ---.LetsTa!0Bit,oin.,om
s#o-,asin* t#e /est ,ontent +rom t#osands o+ independent /!o*s. a!so operatin* on t#e
p!at+orm. T#is is t#e +irst o+ man$ annon,ements -e!! /e ma0in* over t#e neAt +e-
mont#s. 7e #ope $o en5o$ or -or0. No-. /a,0 to t#e s#o-. 1';26G3
444444444444444444444444444444444444444444
!": Der#aps re!evant to or dis,ssion t#at -e -ere 5st #avin*. its re,ent!$ ,ome ot t#at
t#eres. /asi,a!!$. a *overnment pro*ram in t#e BS t#ats #anded do-n /$ t#e Eepartment o+
8sti,e (ironi, name) to ,t o++ /an0in* servi,es -it#in t#e !e*a,$ /an0in* s$stem to ,ertain
!e*a! indstries t#at t#e$ 5st dont !i0e. +or instan,e. porno*rap#$. porn a,tors and +irearms
dea!ers and peop!e -#o are in t#e +irearms /siness. Even prod,ts t#at o++er a !i+etime
*arantee. or a !i+etime -arrant$. or prod,ts t#at 5st #ave a !ot o+ ,#ar*e/a,0s in t#eir
/siness /an0 a,,onts ,an +ind t#eir a,,onts do-n -it# no eAp!anation. In +a,t. t#ere -as
a stor$ t#at ,ame ot. I t#in0 in Ki,e. -#ere t#e$ pro+i!ed someone -#o #ad t#is #appen to
t#em and s#e -as a +ormer ad!t a,tor. not even ,rrent!$ doin* porn and /ot# #er /an0
a,,ont and #er #s/ands /an0 a,,ont -ere s#t do-n. Hes not even a porn star. He 5st
-as married to #er and so #er so,ia! se,rit$ nm/ers -ere !in0ed. No-. t#is is #appenin*
-#ere /an0s are !itera!!$ den$in* /an0in* servi,es to ,ertain peop!e. I /e!ieve t#ere -as
anot#er *$ -#o -as ?oted in t#e same arti,!e -#o -as a porn prod,er or somet#in* !i0e
t#at and #e tried to re+inan,e #is mort*a*e and -as to!d t#at #e -as /ein* de,!ined +or mora!
reasons. (La*#ter) T#is is a,ta!!$ #appenin* and t#ere #ave /een a nm/er o+ peop!e in
t#e /an0in*... 1'&2%;3
AB: He -as !e*a!!$ de,!ined +or mora! reasons. I !i0e t#at. 1'&2%>3
!": Cea#. He -as de,!ined +or re+inan,in* #is mort*a*e +or mora! reasons. It 5st sonds
!i0e somet#in* t#ats made p /t its not. Its rea!!$ #appenin*. 1'&2'>3
AA: 8st +or a se,ond. /e+ore -e move on to dis,ss t#is topi, a /it deeper /e,ase I t#in0
its ver$ eas$ to +o,s on one or t-o isses and Im sre some peop!e ma$ mora!!$ o/5e,t to
porno*rap#$ and some ot#er peop!e ma$ mora!!$ o/5e,t to +irearms. I+ $o 0eep *oin* do-n
t#at s!ipper$ s!ope. $o +ind some rea!!$ interestin* t#in*s. Heres t#e !ist o+ t#irt$ #i*# ris0
mer,#ant ,ate*ories t#at t#e HTIC #as t#at are ,rrent!$ /ein* prsed /$ t#e EO8 and
spposed!$ t#at are a!so t#e +o,s o+ Operation C#o0epoint. -#ere/$ app!$in* re*!ator$ and
s/poena po-er pressre. t#e$ are +or,in* t#e /an0s. +or,in* t#e ,ost o+ /siness o+ servin*
t#ese a,,onts so #i*# /e,ase o+ eAtra5di,ia! administrative a,tion (instead o+ pttin* t#em
do-n). Ammnition sa!es. ,a/!e /oA des,ram/!ers (,a/!e /oA des,ram/!ers:) ,oin dea!ers.
,redit ,ard s,#emes. ,redit repair servi,es. datin* servi,es. de/t ,onso!idation s,ams. dr*
parap#erna!ia. es,ort servi,es. +irearm sa!es. +ire-or0s sa!es. Let Ii,# prod,ts. *overnment
*rants. #ome"/ased ,#arities. !i+etime *arantees. !i+etime mem/ers#ips. !otter$ sa!es. mai!in*
!ist sa!es and persona! in+o sa!es. mone$ trans+er net-or0s. on!ine *am/!in*. pa$da$ !oans.
p#arma,eti,a! sa!es. Don<i s,#emes. porno*rap#$. p$ramid t$pe sa!es. ra,ist materia!s.
srvei!!an,e e?ipment. te!emar0etin*. to/a,,o sa!es. and trave! ,!/s. Co!! noti,e t#at
t#ere are at !east #a!+ a do<en /i!!ion do!!ar indstries and so. -#at t#is means is t#at t#e$re
tar*etin* on!$ t#e tiniest instan,es. 1'G2%G3
!": Le*a! /i!!ion do!!ar indstries. Le*a! ones. 1'G2'(3
AA: Le*a! /i!!ion do!!ar indstries t#at are rn /$ *iant SND ;(( !isted ,orporations /t
t#e$re not tar*etin* t#em. Eont t#in0 t#e$re s#ttin* D+i<ers a,,onts do-n. or s#ttin*
an$ o+ t#ose. 7#at t#e$re tar*etin* is rea!!$ sma!! s,a!e ,ompetitors t#at represent a
nisan,e to t#ese !ar*e ,orporations. T#ere is a ver$ interestin* aspe,t o+ de pro,ess and
e?a! prote,tion nder t#e !a- #ere. T#is is !e*is!ation -it#ot !e*is!ative at#orit$ -#i,#
s#o!d -orr$ ever$one. 1'G2;(3
!": I dont 0no- i+ -e mentioned t#is $et /t t#e name o+ t#is is Operation C#o0epoint.
7#at t#e$re attemptin* to do is ,#o0e ot ,ertain indstries /$ den$in* t#em /an0in*
servi,es. 16(2('3
AA: Centra!i<ed s$stems #ave ,#o0e points. Centra!i<ed /an0in* is a ,#o0epoint. T#is is
-#at #appens -#en $o ,om/ine *overnment at#orit$. /t not !a-+! at#orit$. not
at#orit$ derived t#ro*# !e*is!ation /e,ase. !isten. $o ,an mora!!$ o/5e,t to a!! t#ese
t#in*s. I+ $o mora!!$ o/5e,t to a!! t#ese t#in*s. *o !o//$ Con*ress. pass a !a-. and ma0e
t#em i!!e*a!. To*# !,0M T#en its !e*a! to prse t#ese nder !a-. 7#at t#e$re doin* is
t#e$re prsin* t#em eAtra 5di,ia!!$. T#e$re sin* po-er o+ re*!ation over a ,orporate
s$stem in order to prse t#in*s t#e$ #ave not /een at#ori<ed /$ Con*ress to do. T#at
means t#at t#e$ are vio!atin* t#e separation o+ po-ers. prin,ip!es and. at t#e same time. t#e$
are ,reatin* an n#o!$ a!!ian,e o+ na,,onta/!e *overnment and na,,onta/!e ,orporate
po-er. I /e!ieve t#eres a -ord +or t#at +as,ism: Ces. It ma$ /e so+t +as,ism /t t#is is
most de+inite!$ +as,ism. T#e idea t#at $o -i!! ta0e !a-+! a,tivities t#at $o mora!!$ o/5e,t
to. /t $o dont #ave t#e a/i!it$ to pass !a-s a*ainst /e,ase $o dont #ave t#e ,onsent o+
t#e *overned and t#en $o stron*"arm po-er t#ro*# administrative and re*!ator$ po-ers o+
t#e EAe,tive to +or,e ,orporations. or ,o!!de -it# ,orporations t#at is +as,ism. Its a ni,e
!itt!e s!ipper$ s!ope #ere /e,ase. o+ ,orse. i+ $or a,,ont *ets /anned. -#at do $o do:
Co dont #ave an$ de pro,ess ri*#t. I+ its a !a-. $o ,an appea!. $o ,an +i*#t it t#ro*#
t#e ,orts. and $o ,an ,#a!!en*e it ,onstittiona!!$. Co ,ant ,#a!!en*e an a,,ont ,!osre
,onstittiona!!$ or 5di,ia!!$ -#en t#e /an0 #as done it nder t#ese ,ir,mstan,es. 1Inadi/!e
senten,e3 7#at t#is does is it removes t#e ri*#t to de pro,ess and e?a! prote,tion nder t#e
!a- o+ individa!s and t#ese are app!ied disproportionate!$ on minorities. on poor peop!e. on
sma!! /siness and on peop!e -#o dont #ave t#e po-er to eit#er /ri/e t#e *overnment not to
tar*et t#em. or +i*#t t#is -it# an arm$ o+ !a-$ers in t#e ,orts. T#is is rea!!$ s,ar$ st++
/e,ase t#is proves de+initive!$ -#$ *overnment ,annot /e trsted -it# po-er over mone$.
16'2'63
AB: Its at#orit$ and ,ontro!. ri*#t: I mean. t#ats t#e t#in* is t#at i+ $o ma0e t#ese
t#in*s !a-s. t#en t#eres t#e a/i!it$ to stop t#em. -#ereas i+ $o 5st sa$ OK. -e!! no/od$
is pa$in* attention an$-a$. !ets 5st do st++ and no/od$ is *oin* to ,a!! s on it. t#en $o
,an *et a-a$ -it# t#at +or a !on* time. 7ere *oin* do-n t#is pat# /e,ase t#e pie ,ontines
to *et sma!!er /e,ase t#e ,rrent s$stem -e #ave isnt desi*ned to ma0e t#e pie /i**er. its
desi*ned to ,ontine perpetatin* itse!+ nti! a/so!te!$ it ,annot an$ !on*er. Ta0in* t#ese
t#in*s otside o+ t#e !e*a! s$stem is s,# a mess$ pro,ess. I dont 0no- #o- $o re,over
+rom t#at. Ho- do $o +iA a pro/!em !i0e t#is -it#ot sa$in* OK. ever$t#in* t#ats
#appened. as +ar as *overnment is ,on,erned -it# a!! o+ t#ese a,tions and a!! o+ t#e ,ra<$
reper,ssions sre!$ t#at t#e$ve ,ased in t#e mi!!ions o+ instan,es t#e$ve /een app!ied.
Ho- do $o sa$ OK. 5st 0iddin*. T#at -as a!! -ron*. Ever$/od$. a,ta!!$. t#ats no
!on*er... t#ats OK no-. To a ,ertain eAtent. doesnt it /e,ome en*rained in t#e ,!tre 5st
/e,ase $o #ave so man$ peop!e -#o #ave a!read$ /een s/5e,ted to it and *one t#ro*# it:
1662''3
AA: T#is is a +ndamenta! /rea0do-n o+ t#e r!e o+ !a- -#i,# is somet#in* t#at $o see in
most ,ontries. T#is isnt srprisin* st++. T#is is t#e ,!assi, set o+ too!s o+ a /anana
rep/!i,. o+ a di,tators#ip. o+ an at#oritarian re*ime. I+ $o !oo0 arond t#e -or!d and
,ertain!$ -#ere I *re- p in Lree,e. ar/itrar$ and ,apri,ios imp!ementation o+ !a- and
administrative po-er is not#in* ne-. 7#at $o do is. as $o #ave t#is... Im sre in Issia
$o dont -orr$ a/ot -#et#er t#ere is !a-+! at#ori<ation to sei<e a /siness. or s#t do-n
t#is /an0 a,,ont /e,ase t#at doesnt rea!!$ matter. As $o erode t#e r!e o+ !a-. -#at
#appens is $o a!so erode respe,t +or t#e !a- and t#en $o a!so ,reate ,orrption /e,ase
t#en. t#e -a$ to reso!ve t#is is t#ro*# /ri/er$. Co dont #ave de pro,ess so instead. $o
rep!a,e t#at -it# ,orrption. 16)2%&3
!": 7ere seein* /an0s sett!e... -ere seein* !a- sits +rom *overnment a*en,ies a*ainst
/an0s +or vio!atin* t#e va*e statte and /an0s are sett!in*. 7#at is t#at /t a /ri/e. rea!!$:
16)26%3
AA: 7#ere is t#e !a- /ein* app!ied: T#e !a- is /ein* app!ied to s#t do-n t#in*s t#at are
per+e,t!$ !a-+! +or -#i,# t#e EAe,tive ,annot re,eive at#ori<ation +rom Con*ress. -#i!e
at t#e same time. t#e Eepartment o+ 8sti,e did a/so!te!$ not#in* to prose,te t#e ri**in* o+
mar0ets. ro/o si*nin*. mort*a*e +rad and massive t#e+t t#at #appened in '((@. in t#e rn p
to '((@ and. o+ ,orse. in t#e +ive $ears sin,e. ,ontines na/ated and re-arded. Eventa!!$.
-ere *oin* to see more prose,tions nder t#in*s !i0e t#is t#an +or +rad a*ainst ,onsmers.
7#at it revea!s. on,e a*ain. is t#e re*!ator$ po-ers are not sed to prote,t ,onsmers.
T#e$re sed to eit#er imp!ement mora!it$ -it#ot !e*is!ative approva! or to ,reate
,ompetitive /arriers to entr$. No-. a !ot o+ t#ese t#in*s t#at are on t#is !ist are t#in*s -#ere
$o #ave !ar*e esta/!is#ed ,orporations t#at -ant to /e s#ie!ded +rom an$ t$pe o+ ,ompetition
and so t#is is a per+e,t opportnit$ to s#t it do-n t#ro*# re*!ation rat#er t#an ,ompetin*
in t#e +ree mar0et. A!! it does is prove. on,e a*ain. -#$ #avin* ,ontro! over $or o-n mone$
is essentia! and -#$ *overnments ,ant /e trsted to ,ontro! mone$. 16;2)@3
!": T#eres a re!ated stor$ to t#is +rom /a,0 in Mar,#. I /e!ieve. -#ere -e sa- t#e tense
sitation in Issia. -#ere Kisa and Master,ard ,t o++ pa$ments to some Issian /an0s t#at
-ere a,ta!!$ previos!$ approved a,,ordin* to t#e BS. T#e reason +or t#at -as to Npt
pressre on peop!e t#e$ sa- as mem/er Dtins inner ,ir,!eO. O+ ,orse. t#is is sed +or
po!iti,a! reasons. o+ ,orse its sed to app!$ pressre in -a$s t#at po!iti,ians -ant to app!$
pressre and $ore eAa,t!$ ri*#t. Andreas. t#ats -#$ -e rea!!$ #ave to app!$ some
?estionin* to t#ese t$pes o+ po!i,ies and a!so ?estion -#et#er /ein* /an0ed. so ,a!!ed. is
s,# a *reat t#in*. Eoes it ,reate more pro/!ems t#an it so!ves: 16>2)63
AA: Ces. I mean t#ats t#e t#in*. t#e idea #ere -#at $ore /ein* so!d is t#at t#e /an0in*
s$stem and its re*!ations prote,t ,onsmers +rom t#e+t /t t#en -#en t#e t#e+t is /ein*
,ond,ted /$ t#e /an0in* s$stem. t#e$ dont prote,t ,onsmers +rom t#e+t. 7#en t#e
*overnment endorses t#at t#e+t /$ not prose,tin* it. or even re-ard it in some ,ases. t#en t#e
/an0in* s$stem is not prote,tin* ,onsmers at a!!. T#en. $o #ave to t#in0 -#o is t#e
/an0in* s$stem prote,tin* and -#o is it /ene+ittin*: 7#at t#at s#o-s is -#$ de,entra!i<ed
s$stems t#at *ive no one t#e po-er over t#e +!o-s o+ mone$ are more +air. s,a!e /etter and
de!iver more po-er and more +reedom to individa!s to spend t#eir mone$ as t#e$ ,#oose.
Man$ individa!s ma0in* individa! ,#oi,es is /etter t#an some na,,onta/!e /rea,rat
-it#ot an$ oversi*#t /ein* a/!e to do -#atever t#e #e!! t#e$ -ant and pressre /an0s
/e,ase t#e$ dont !i0e a spe,i+i, indstr$ or a spe,i+i, pra,ti,e. 16&2)G3
AB: T#ats -#at #appens ever$ da$. is peop!e ma0e individa! de,isions /ased on t#eir
o-n e,onomi, -e!!"/ein*. or -#at t#e$ per,eive it to /e movin* +or-ard. T#ats rea!!$ t#e
interestin* part a/ot t#is to me is t#at -#ere -ere ta!0in* a/ot t#e BS. and -ere ta!0in*
a/ot peop!e t#ere in varios indstries. essentia!!$ /ein* n/an0ed +or,i/!$. t#e$ didnt -ant
to !eave t#eir /an0. T#e$re /ein* 0i,0ed ot and so /e,ase o+ t#at $o #ave peop!e -#o
-o!dnt pro/a/!$ #ave ,onsidered a ,#an*e to an$t#in* ot#er t#an a /an0 /t no-. sdden!$.
t#e$ #ave t#is eAperien,e and it *ets... a*ain. it ,#an*es t#in*s at a +ndamenta! !eve! a/ot
#o- peop!e rea,t to t#is stim!s -#en it ,omes in t#e +tre and #o- t#e$ ma0e de,isions
a/ot t#ese t#in*s. 7e ,an see t#e same t#in* #appenin* -it# t#e Issia sitation. Its /een
des,ri/ed as t#e de"do!!ari<ation... t#e do!!ar is t#e -or!ds reserve ,rren,$. T#e to0en #as
/een arond +or t-o #ndred and somet#in* $ears. 16@26@3
!": I !ove #o- $o 5st ,a!!ed t#e BS do!!ar a to0en. (La*#ter) 16@2)'3
AB: 7#en t#e ,rrent s$stem 0i,0s peop!e ot. t#ose peop!e #ave a ,#oi,e. T#e$ ,an se
not#in* or t#e$ ,an se somet#in* t#at t#e$ ,reate. or t#at t#e$ -or0ed -it# someone e!se to
,reate. or t#at someone e!se #as ,reated and isnt re!ated to t#e t#in* t#at t#e$ -ere 0i,0ed
ot +rom. Core not a,ta!!$ doin* an$t#in* ot#er t#an ma0in* $or o-n poo! o+ sers
s/stantia!!$ sma!!er. A*ain. t#ats -#at I see #appenin* over and over a*ain -it# t#e
sitation in Asia. -it# Issia and -it# C#ina is t#at t#e BS seems to /e a,tin* in -a$s t#at
are anta*onisti, to t#e point -#ere it is /e,omin* -ort#-#i!e +or t#ese ,ontries simp!$ to do
t#eir o-n t#in*. 7e are ,reatin*. in t#e par!an,e o+ -#at -e ma$ ,a!! in t#e +tre. i+ a -ar
-inds p #appenin* /et-een *reat po-ers. or reserve ,rren,$ po-ers. -e are settin* p t#e
=AAis o+ Evi!. Its entire!$ /ein* done /e,ase -e are treatin* t#em !i0e PPPPPPP and
/asi,a!!$. r//in* t#eir +a,es in t#e +a,t t#at -e ,an do -#atever -e -ant /e,ase -e ,ontro!
t#e reserve ,rren,$ and t#e$ ,ant do an$t#in* a/ot it. Its 5st t#is sper interestin* sop
o+ -e -o!dnt /e a/!e to even #ave t#e ,onteAt to nderstand -#$ t#is ,onversation is
re!evant i+ t#e eAistin* s$stem -asnt doin* its damnedest to *et ever$/od$ ot o+ it as
possi/!e and t#en. t#ose peop!e #ave no atta,#ment. 16G2;)3
AA: T#at di++eren,e is t#e peop!e #ave a ,#oi,e. Ii*#t no-. most peop!e dont even 0no-
t#e$ #ave a ,#oi,e $et. /t some o+ s a!read$ do. More and more peop!e ever$ da$ are
dis,overin* t#at t#e$ #ave a ,#oi,e. I+ $o /e,ome n/an0ed toda$. t#ere is no- a ,#oi,e
and t#at ,#oi,e is Bit,oin and ot#er ,r$pto,rren,ies. I+ $o ,ome over to Bit,oin. -e -i!!
-e!,ome $o -it# open arms and -e -i!! *ive $o +!! ,ontro! over $or o-n mone$. and
over $or +inan,ia! destin$. and over $or +inan,ia! ,#oi,es. 1)(2'>3
AB: Bt $ore sa$in*. -e 7ILL... and t#ats so -ron*. 1)(2'G3
AA: 7e are. 1)(2'G3
AB: Its not -e -i!!. its t#ereM 1)(26%3
AA: Its t#ere. $ea# eAa,t!$. Core ri*#t. 1)(2663
AB: Co ,an. 1)(26)3
AA: Its not dont do evi!. its ,ant do evi!. T#e s$stem is desi*ned in s,# a -a$ t#at it
empo-ers individa!s immediate!$ -it#ot permission. -it#ot need +or a,,ess permission.
-it#ot need +or veri+i,ation. It is avai!a/!e. 8st ma0e t#e ,#oi,e and 5oin it and t#en $o
#ave t#e po-er /$ de+a!t. Cea#. $ore a/so!te!$ ri*#t. Lreat. ,ome 5oin s. 7ere #avin*
+n over #ere -it# Bit,oin. More peop!e need to +i*re ot t#e$ #ave a ,#oi,e. 1)%2(63
AB: Ces. $es a/so!te!$. T#e$ need to +i*re ot t#e$ #ave a ,#oi,e and t#at is. I t#in0. t#e
t#in* t#at rea!!$ #as ,ome to me over t#e !ast ,op!e o+ mont#s is t#at. at t#e ,ore. -#at
-eve done -it# t#is te,#no!o*$ and -#at t#ese t$pes o+ te,#no!o*ies and de,entra!i<ed... I
mean. rea!!$ its de,entra!i<ation. Its not even a/ot Bit,oin. Its 5st de,entra!i<ation.
Ee,entra!i<ed -e/"/ased te,#no!o*ies /rea0 monopo!ies. I+ $o #ave a s$stem -#ere $o
#ave a ,entra!i<ed monopo!$ t#at #as ,omp!ete ,ontro! over a mar0et and $o introd,e a
disrptive te,#no!o*$ into it t#at does t#e same t#in*. $o -o!d no !on*er #ave a monopo!$.
I+ $o ma0e it internationa!. t#en $o rea!!$ no !on*er #ave a monopo!$ /e,ase i+ it attra,ts
ne*ative attention in one ,ontr$. it 5st s#i+ts t#e tide. ps#es t#e -ater and it see0s its o-n
!eve!. Deop!e #ave not rea!i<ed t#at re*ard!ess o+ -#at $ore ta!0in* a/ot. t#e a/i!it$ to
perpetate a monetar$ monopo!$ 5st doesnt eAist in a -a$ t#at it did. even +or or +ive $ears
a*o and t#ats +ndamenta!!$ ,#an*ed t#e -or!d -e !ive in. 1)'2('3
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C%E#I&!:
T#an0s +or !istenin* to Episode %%( o+ Lets Ta!0 Bit,oin.
Content +or toda$s episode -as provided /$ Step#anie Mrp#$. Andreas M.
Antonopo!os and Adam B. Levine
T#is episode -as edited /$ Adam B. Levine
Msi, +or t#is episode -as provided /$ 8ared I/ens
An$ ?estions or ,omments: Emai! adamQ!etsta!0/it,oin.,om.
Have a *ood oneM 1)'2')3