WITNESS INTERVIEW

Complainant:
Respondent:
File/Case Number:

Brett P Bigham
Multnomah Education Service District
EEEMSO141124-11702

Person Interviewed:

CRD Interviewer:

Name:

Name: Andrea Damewood

Mark Skolnick

Address

Date: February 3, 2015

Time: 10:40 am
Place: tel

Phone:
Position/Relationship:
Protected Class:
Others Present:
Reason for Interview:

witness
n/a
witness interview

INTRODUCTION:

My name is Andrea Damewood, I am an investigator with the Civil Rights Division of BOLI;
Ive been assigned to investigate the allegations in a discrimination complaint filed against
Multnomah Education Service District.
We are an impartial fact-finding body and we are looking into only the allegations in the
complaint regarding discrimination; we are not investigating all potential unfairness or
unprofessionalism connected with this employment situation
We do not represent the complainant on this matter; nor do we represent the employer
My role on this case is to determine whether there is substantial evidence to prove the
allegations of discrimination. As part of this process I am speaking with witnesses who have
relevant information. The complainant provided me your contact information as a person
who may have useful information related to the complaint.
If you wish, you may choose to have an attorney for your employer present during this
interview. If you would like that person present, we can stop now and reschedule when the
attorney is available.
I will be taking notes during this interview, but it is not being recorded. You may hear
pauses here and there as I document your statements.

INTERVIEW NOTES (not a verbatim transcript):

I am aware of the spiraling down of Bretts relationship with his supervisors but I havent seen
the complaint or specifically whats happened to him.

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I was there the whole year of 2014, I was there for 21 and a half years, my last day was Dec. 31.
Im 62 and I retired. I did my pers and decided I would try to live my life doing what I wanted to
do.
I was the district spokesman. I dont know when Brett started, but it was 4-5 years ago. He went
above and beyond in many many ways. He did a lot of special events, because I always did the
PR and website, helped him publicize what he did, he always thought to include me. He had a
keen eye for what was newsworthy. We worked together on that, and I played music in his class
every week, and played guitar in the Ainsworth bldg. I saw him every week. I helped him with
the Prom PR and a letter of support for him when he was teacher of year. He was particularly
active. The things he did intersected with my job more than any other special ed teacher.
It was a professional relationship. I cant speak for anyone else, I can speak for myself. He told
me he was gay at some point, a few years ago, talked about his partner. I have no idea what he
told other people. I didnt have any discussions with any admin about his sexual orientation.
Yes, I do recall the speech where he said he was gay. He became teacher of the year, he had to
give a stump speech beginning with giving it at the Oregon School Board Assoc convention in
November 2013. So, Jeanne I believe asked in my role if I would help Brett with his speech. I
invited him in late October 2013 to give the speech to the School Public Relations Assoc to test it
out. I believe in that speech, he said he was gay. I cant swear to it but I think he mentioned it.
His speech was very well received. He gave it again, in November. Then, in January, he started
going around at the invitation of a lot of groups to talk, including in The Dalles. I wasnt there,
but my understanding was he said he was gay in the speech, alluding to it in a passing way and it
was not the focus of the speech. Again, second hand, Jeanne Zuniga said you have to be really
careful about your audience, she said its not a platform for gay rights. Jeanne is the one who told
me that she said that she was a little bothered by it. She cautioned him. That was the beginning.
He wrote an oped piece about the common core. He got some feedback that his facts werent
correct, from a professor somewhere. Jeanne was also concerned about that. She called a meeting
with me and him, and they wanted me to be his manager. This was an impossible task for me to
do. I set up a calendar for him on google for his events. It was inappropriate to ask me to
somehow vet everything he said. That was impossible. I think they wanted me, because of the
thing in the Dalles and because of the Common Core op ed piece, to be his handler and to vet
everything he did. That was not something I could do.
Gag order: I dont really know about that, I really stayed out of it. In February, it became clear to
me that we really needed to have a meeting and get on the same page about how to be TOY. I
saw it coming. In a special ed class, its really hard to find a substitute. They were concerned
about the time Brett was devoting to be TOY. My impression was there was a disconnect
between what Bretts intentions and what the district wanted. Any release time he was given had
to be of value to the district. Thats very subjective. I had a meeting with Barbara and Jeanne
and said we need to get on same page. We resolved it with the calendar and to make sure
everyone is aware.

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When youre TOY, every state does it differently. Some states give six months paid off to go out
and speak. The ability to get release time, and what he was going to say, I didnt get in the
middle of that. I was really really disappointed we would blow to such a degree to have a TOY.
Its a pissing match over this, somehow we were blowing it and we did blow it, absolutely.
As TOY you go to certain things, and youre told to have a platform. His platform I believe was
advancing opportunity for students who are forgotten and those include students who are LGBT,
special ed. The whole gamut of disenfranchised students. I believe he felt he was being pressured
by Jeanne and Heyke and Barbara. Im just telling you what he told me. He copied me in an
email, and I didnt even want to read them. When youre a spokesperson for an organization,
sometimes you have to say things you dont believe in. In this case, I thought it was handled
extremely poorly.
Instead of having a really good discussion, it became adversarial early on. Jeanne treated him
like a child, in a really condescending way. She would come into my office and complain. I dont
really know, Brett in my observation, is not, malcontent, and not stubborn, but a fighter.
Sometimes the same qualities that benefit you hurt you. I believe this also worked against him,
that he took everything extremely personally. He could have backed off a little bit in some way.
He said, youre not going to tell me what to do. Im TOY, these are my rights.
Gay and Jeanne thing: I couldnt understand it. I thought it was an overreaction, I thought Jeanne
was treating him like he was stupid. Like somehow he was going to bring incredible
embarrassment because he would mention in his speeches, in passing, being gay. All I know he
said was hes an advocate for all students. I thought Jeannes reaction was an overreaction she
never said I dont like gay people, but rather that he was going to bring a negative image to
MESD because he was advocating for gay students. I felt that her attitude toward him, she didnt
trust him, she accused him of doing things that I didnt understand. She would say Brett wasnt
in his classroom three days this week, and he would say, thats a lie, I was there every single day
and I have records to prove it. I just said to him talk to Jeanne.
Not vetting: I said, Ive seen his speech. Its good. He got standing ovations. No one was
bothered by him mentioning he was gaythis was when I saw it in front of the Oregon Public
Relations Associations. Its Portland, its Oregon. Its not 1960. If people are uncomfortable
about it, too bad.
He told me some stuff like being asked to give three weeks notice, and I was just asked to do
this in a week. I said talk to your supervisor. Jeanne and Barbara stopped talking to me about it.
Brett came to my office and closed the door and said Ive been given directives I cant fulfill. I
have to ask permission for everything. I didnt go to his supervisor about this. Im not aware of
gay events denial. The criteria seemed fuzzy to me for approval. Again, I thought, well jeez, isnt
pretty much anything of value?
The whole thing was handled so freaking poorly. One of the reasons I retired was that MESD
had so many self inflicted wounds that I couldnt work there anymore. Including this one. It was
one of the reasons why I left. We had a golden opportunity, we couldnt handle it correctly? It
was one in a string of disappointments I had.

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Bretts opinion was that he was lied to, was given a gag order, which is hyperbole. He used that,
but I think what he meant was his right to express himself was being compromised.
I never heard anybody say I hate gays, I dont think Brett should do this because hes gay. If that
was behind the scenes, I never heard anyone say that. Of course, people are smart, theyre not
going to say that.
I said to Brett, you have to understand, Im going to tell it to you straight, your platform has to be
about education. If it includes advocacy for all groups, including gay students and teachers, it has
to tie into education.
After summer: He came to my office and told me that Barbara promised me I would have the
same staff and they took my staff away. They took Matt, moved his desk without his permission,
boxed all his materials. It escalated into his overall performance, something about him not being
in the classroom enough. He was not allowed to be at his desk for only a certain number of
minutes. He began to tell me, come in close the door, complain. He said theyve given me
guidelines I cant adhere to, took staff I was promised Id have. They said my staff was
complaining, my staff wasnt complaining. It was a he said/she said. He was all mad about it.
That continued from September to December. Hes very sensitive, had a heart attack a year ago
maybe. It seemed like it was just going downhill in every way.
He came to my office, asked me a bunch of questions and I told him. I was pretty careful with
Jim. His questions were more like facts. I did not feel he was trying to sway the interview. He
was open, didnt lead me, didnt plan innuendos, no gotcha questions. I dont remember if I told
him the story about Jeanne in The Dalles.
Hes a passionate person who is sensitive. I would understand someone who is gay might be
hypersensitive to statements. Theres tons of openly gay people at MESD.
No, I wouldnt go as far as Jim Buck did. Thats way too subjective. You dont know whats in
his heart. You dont know that. One person can say, thats so gay. Another person can be
completely devastated by that. Does that mean theyre hysterical or have a penchant for
overreacting? He cant stop being who he is.
On one hand, obviously the relationship went south. Hed say, they told me this. He told me they
cut off his corporate card. He told me at one point, he took kids to McDs and his card was
down. He said they had questions about his spending expenses. He said that was a complete lie,
she had them in August. Theres the issue of: did they unfairly constrict him from doing his job,
for whatever reason, or did they do it because he was gay?
I never witnessed anyone overtly saying that Brett is a bad boy because hes gay. I did witness
Jeanne saying she was concerned that his comments about being gay could be inappropriate in
his speeches about being teacher of the year.

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I just know things got worse for him, I dont know if it was because he fought. All I know it was
pouring gas on the fire. My impression was this became an email war. I cant agree with you that
it became worse once he started to fight back. All I know is that things got worse. He definitely
fought back, and it wasnt like they said, Brett, Im really sorry that we moved your desk without
telling you. Im sorry we changed your staff when our intentions were to keep your staff
together.
--maybe took desks out of all classrooms so all teachers can focus on students.
We didnt talk about the October KATU story. It was happening, but nobody really wanted to
talk about it. I got a call from Betsy Hammond (Oregonian reporter), she said, have you seen his
Facebook page? She read to me his statements about discrimination and retaliation, the gag
order, being treated poorly. I expected her to follow up on it. Betsy never followed up on it. I
thought it was perfect for the O, or Willamette Week. We never talked about it in the cabinet
leadership team.
I think Peggy Loomy, any educational assistants would be great to talk to. Heyke, his partner
Mike, Bernie Guisto. Ron Hitchcock, Clackamas ESD, deputy superintendent. He invited Brett
to give the back to school speech. I think Brett confided a little bit with Ron.
I dont know it was discrimination but I can say unequivocally it was handled extremely poorly
by MESD administration. Perhaps Brett was oversensitive, misinterpreted things. But it doesnt
excuse the administration from working things out, making this year work great.

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