Alexandra Goins

SOC 2370-502

Spring 2018

Assignment 4 - Interview

Frankie, given name Kathryn Frances, is a friend of about four years now. We

met under unfortunate circumstances, but became friends probably due to this. I wanted

to interview Frankie because I new they, as a biological female, had been sexually

assaulted by a mutual “friend” and because of their journey to comfortably living as

genderqueer and bisexual. People who identify as such are often viewed as attention

seekers, which may be true in some cases, but Frankie treats it like a non-issue. As

such, it would be interesting to hear why they deny having “come out” and if it was a

response to their experience four years ago. The following questions are a rough

guideline to where I hope to direct our conversation:

1. How do you self-identify?

2. How do people generally react to you?

3. Do you remember the day we met?

4. In your opinion, who is to blame?

5. Has it happened since?

6. Would you say your approach has changed in response to that?

7. Why? Why not? 8. Does your expression affect how you approach others?

9. Was there a catalyst in your life in which you decided to come out?
 10. Do you have any advice or wisdom for others struggling with any of what you

went through?

Here is a transcription of our conversation. Some parts were cut out from when we

inevitably veered far off topic. “F” is for Frankie, “M” is for myself.

M: Thanks for helping with this Frankie.

F: No problemo. You may ask me your questions.

(Laughter)

M: Alright, right to it: How do you self-identify?

F: You mean genderfluid and bisexual, right? Don't worry about being PC, babe.

We've been through shit.

M: No kidding. How do people generally react to you?

F: Oh, I dunno. I usually only associate with chill people, so it's not a huge deal. My

parents don't really care, as long as I'm safe and happy. I know I'm lucky in that

regard. I guess it's a perk of not having ultra-conservative parents. I know a lot of

people, out here in particular, that have been disowned or stay "in the closet", I

guess you would say, out of fear. I do get some mad side-eye sometimes, though.

But I figure it has more to me being an obnoxious person than it has to do with me

dressing and acting like a dude.

M: Yeah, you can be quite dickhead sometimes.

(Laughter)

F: Damn straight!
M: But you're bi. Do you remember the day we met?

F: No offense babe, but I'm still trying to forget.

M: I don't blame you.

F: Yeah. I get what you're really asking, though. And I'm just super glad you were

there to help me through it.

M: We can talk about other stuff.

F: Nah. We're good, I'm just not sure how to phrase everything. This is for a grade,

right?

M: Yeah, but don't worry about that. Just speak your mind.

F: You asked for it. That whole thing was a fucking nightmare. It was the first college

party I had gone to, and the first time I had tried alcohol. And, yeah, it was full of

die-hard "not your typical molly mormons", so it sucked balls! But I was 19 and trying

to be cool and fit in. So I got super drunk. As you know, that was when I was still

doing the whole "typical girl" thing and had been hanging out with James and Matt.

Well I went to the party with Matt, and he got the wrong idea: I was drunk, he was

not as drunk, and we hooked up. A few minutes in, I started feeling weird about it

and I asked him to stop, and he didn't. He just kept going 'til he came. I was so sick

from the alcohol that I couldn't really fight with him, but at least I managed to puke all

over him once I sat up, hmm I would say I got at least 80% of it on him. Boy, did he

ever leave in a hurry. I honestly can't even remember how we ended up in that

room, or how I got myself cleaned up and dressed after. Uh, I know I called James

for help, but I couldn't tell you what I said. I just remember both of you showing up.
M: Yeah, James just told me that a friend was at a party at Hyrum's and sounded

like they were in trouble. So I drove him over and went in to help him find said friend.

F: Wanna know a secret?

M: Hm?

F: I vividly remember being really angry when you walked in and everyone knew

you. I was really mad that you didn't seem to feel any of the pressure I was feeling.

God, I tried so hard to hate you. Then I heard you asking for "Katy" and I was so

surprised and confused that "this bitch" was looking for me.

M: "This bitch"? Harsh, but not untrue.

(Laughter)

F: Dumbass. It wasn't until I talked to you two that I really realized what had

happened. I don't think I would have ever let myself think of it as rape, or that what

had happened was definitely not ok, if you and James hadn't been there. I would

have just kept justifying it.

M: In your honest to god opinion, who is at fault?

F: His. I still spent months after that going over in my head what I could've done

different. What I shouldn't do next time I'm friends with someone. It took a long time

to realize that it's not my responsibility to make sure my friendship and personality

are not misconstrued. He shouldn't have expected anything, or taken advantage of

the situation, to get his nut out.

M: Has anything like this happened since?

F: I've had guy friends get too touchy-feely. A few tried to make a move. But I shut
 them down. Hard. 'Cause you bet your sweet ass I'm not putting up with that shit

again!

M: Is it just guys?

F: Nah, I've had some lady friends get the wrong idea. What I think of as playful banter

comes across as hardcore flirting, I guess.

M: That, and you call most people babe and honey and whatnot.

F: Yeah, that must mean I want in your pants. I would say it happens more among my

straight guy friends, and that they're a helluva lot harder to convince that I do not, in

fact, want to sex them.

M: It took you a couple years to fully "come out" and be yourself. What made you finally

decide to do it?

F: K. Promise I'm not messing: my friendship with people like you and James. Y'know?

People that give off the feeling of being so comfortable with who they are that they

aren't threatened by others. Really chill people. That and the realization that, at the end

of the day, I am the only one that really has to LIVE with myself. The transition from the

old "Katy" to "Francis" was gradual anyway. As you know it started with me asking

friends to call me by my middle name, Frances, and changing my social media to

match. Next I had you chop all my hair off to match yours at the time.

M: Yeah, I was so nervous. And amused. What was your reasoning?

F: If I did it to match on of my best friends, then cutting off about a foot of hair wasn't so

extreme. Duh.

M: Solid logic.
F: You get what I'm trying to get at though? It was less of me "coming out" and more of

keeping everyone up to speed. Not "oh, that's Francis who's really Kathryn Frances, but

she's a dyke I guess?", more "that's Francis, you can call 'em Frankie. They're chill."

(content cut)

M: K. Final question, before we go off on another tangent.

F: I'm not even sorry. Then again, I don't have to type this shit up.

M: Lucky you. Ok. Do you have any advice or wisdom for others going through similar

things?

F: Sure. Don't be afraid to be yourself, don't apologize for doing you, and definitely Do

NOT be too scared to stick up for yourself or call other people out on their bullshit. No

matter what happens, you will get through it. Even if you lose something, you still have

the opportunity to gain something back. And you will get stronger.

Interviewing Frankie, as a close personal friend, made me realize again how

persevering they are. We laughed a lot and got of topic, but the core message was loud

and clear. We need to stop ingraining the binary in peoples heads, especially in the

form of social pressure. There are a lot of people like Frankie, who don’t turn out okay;

whose situations don’t change for the better. We didn’t go too deep into the struggles

Frankie went through as Katy, especially after being raped, and it really opened my

eyes to the level of discomfort associated with the topic, even though we

became friends during and because of that time in Frankies life. After this discussion,

I realized
I realized that I need to speak up louder and be more persistent, against rape culture,

and against discrimination of the non-binary.