Greg Thorne another fear based , sexually repressed , puritanical , fear mongering post by supposedly

"religious" people who dont have love in their hearts...please, do go on and spout more of your fear-based
Bronze Age religious myths...l find them facinating

Deacon Ananias Sorem Blessings Greg, I actually love these people (all people in fact) and it is the reason
why I warn against behavior that is destructive to the individual and to the community at large. It isn't fear
mongering, and the arguments aren't directed at critiquing individual persons with moral struggles. The
arguments are mounted against the destructive ideologies that hurt people and the movements that support those
ideologies.

What is the alternative? All morality is relative and we should do what we want? That is self-refuting, and if it
were the case, there could be no objection to what I have said. Is it really loving to say there is no objective
moral law and people should do whatever they want? Would it be loving for a parent, for example, to tell their
little children it is okay to take heroin, to hurt other people, to steal, and to engage in moral vices? A loving
parent would do their best to keep their children from vice and moral danger which would be destructive to their
child. Therefore, it is out of love for all that I speak the truth, reject moral relativism, and have a deep desire to
help people who struggle in all aspects of life.

Deacon Ananias Sorem Furthermore, the counter position (the LGBT movement) is certainly not loving.
How is it loving to persecute people by taking away their families, their jobs, their money, putting them in
prison, etc. simply because they disagree with their ideology and don't believe everything is morally
permissible? How far things have come from the old, "we just want love who we want in the privacy of our own
homes?"

The Orthodox Church has never done these kinds of actions to the LGBT community and it never would. The
reason why is because we actually care and love all people, which logically entails maintaining that moral
relativism is false and doing whatever you want is neither true nor morally correct.

Greg Thorne Deacon Ananias Sorem The basic tenor of these posts not only denigrates , but villifiies the
individuals in out society that have gender identification issues...after villification the next step is religious
damnation followed by socially acceptable violence and assault and/ or incarceration in prisons or mental
institutions, or their final resort to suicide The assumption is that gays , lesbians or transgender people are
socially and spiritually undesereving of decency, love , liberty and rights under our Constitution..Most
*christian" religions then infer , as your post did, that they are "the devil's spawn" and that their mere existance is
a mortal threat to the ignorant status quo that most church doctrines fearfully cling to. This a crime against
humanity , against love and against human decency that only the most intolerant religious fanatics, neo-nazi's
and patriarchal despots cling to...it is time for us all to grow up and take responsibility for our own repressed
sexual issues and mind our own business as well.....or as rabbi Jesus and his wife Mary might say ... , "just love
one another".....these posts and hateful comments are very far from that love ...

Deacon Ananias Sorem This is why I qualified in my post that my critique is not against the individual but
the destructive ideologies that hurt the LGBT individual and society. We Orthodox love all people, but love does
not say, “do what thou wilt” and all behaviors and ideas should be accepted as valid and correct. That position
truly is not loving. The Orthodox Church has never encouraged or condoned violence, assault, incarceration or
imprisonment for us sinners. The reason why is because the Orthodox Church does not engage in violence and
coercion. In fact, it has always historically stood against such things even for those engaged in immoral
practices. The Orthodox Church has never discriminated against individuals as human beings. It only makes
moral distinctions and discriminates between right and wrong actions, which is the nature and duty of ethics and
law; however, it does not enforce the moral law through coercion and violence. It calls all to repentance and to
come freely to acquire a holy life of their own free will. Therefore, it is not hateful to call certain actions and
behaviors immoral, but rather it is loving. As I mentioned previously, to morally sanction all behavior and
actions would simply not be loving at all. Trust me, I am the chief of all sinners, and I would never desire the
Orthodox Church to excuse my faults and immoral behaviors. For if they did, how would I ever become a better
human being? Furthermore, pointing out immoral and destructive behavior is not vilifying the person or hate the
person. Did you not see the video of the father in this legal case? He is an Eastern Orthodox Christian who,
although disagreeing with LGBT practices, stood up for a homosexual man in military when this man was being
mistreated and the Orthodox man was subsequently imprisoned and discharged from the military. This is proof
that we Orthodox can disagree with certain behaviors and actions while standing up for the rights of all human
beings. It is a fallacy to therefore say that because we object to certain behaviors and actions that we therefore
hate the person who acts in such a way.

Moreover, who cares what other Christian religions say or believe. I critique them as much as I do the LGBT
ideologies. They simply are not the Orthodox Church and bear little resemblance to our doctrines or practices. In
fact, the Orthodox have an established history of human rights and preserving human dignity. This is why I am
speaking up against what is going on here. It is no longer, “we just want to love who we want in the privacy of
our own homes. “ It is now resulting in coercion, force, and persecution for those not subscribing to the LGBT
narrative. Like I said, people are now being fired, children taken away from their parents, financial funds seized
and being taken, imprisonment, etc. simply for not believing the party line of the LGBT movement. How is this
loving? And how can we help people become better if we simply say “all is morally permissible, except if you
disagree with us, in which case you will be persecuted and imprisoned?” Where is the human love and rights in
this?

Furthermore, if you are saying there is no objective moral standard and this is all sexual repression, and religious
bigotry are you advocating for pedophilia then? That would logically follow from the principle you are arguing.
Since ironically you seem to be making some very objective moral claims against the Orthodox Church, our
doctrines, what is right and wrong, I must ask: according to your world-view how do you justify what is right or
wrong, true or false, hateful or loving? Is truth and morality according to your worldview subjective and
determined by you personally? Is it relative, changing with the times and according to whatever society/culture
believes at a particular time (i.e., morality and truth are a matter of voting)? Or is it transcendent, objective,
eternal and independent of humans ideas and societies? If the former two options are your answer, then your
position is self-stultifying and there is no valid objection to what I wrote. If the latter is your answer, then again,
how can you and your worldview account for objective, transcendent, eternal morals and truths?

Deacon Ananias Sorem Greg Thorne, also the word "God' is equivocal and does not mean the same thing to
everyone; therefore, you cannot logically use this term univocally as if what the term applies to (i.e., the concept
that is signified) is the same across the board for all people and all religions. In fact, it is not the word that is
important but what is signified. The Eastern Orthodox notion of God is incommensurate with all other people's
ideas of God and therefore it cannot be compared with other religions in a blanket statement and dismissed out of
hand. Moreover, just because you have experience incoherent notions of God from silly religions does not mean
that, consequently, the Orthodox notion of God is silly and incoherent or nonexistent as well. This is a
nonsequitur and an inductive fallacy (the fallacy of hasty generalization to be specific). Your argument is
equivalent to saying that just because you all the books you have read are fiction, therefore all books are fiction.
That is simply erroneous and doesn't follow.

Greg Thorne l truly feel that religions were created to control women and keep the poor from killing their
wealthy male overlords ..it is true to this day

Deacon Ananias Sorem Greg Thorne, how about this then Greg. Orthodoxy is not a religion, since you can't
compare it with other things. Again, you are committing the fallacy of hasty generalization. Furthermore, simply
ignoring my points and changing the argument is another logical fallacy. It is called the red herring fallacy. So
that won't work either.;

Greg Thorne one example then...one major cause of the Russian Revolution was the role that the orthodox
church played in keeping the Russian peasant serfs in complete submission to the wealthy ruling elite and the
Czars ....they were rewarded handsomely for these services ..it was the same role the catholic church played in
France and why the French generally abandoned religion after the revolution as did the Russians...anti jewish
pogroms and church sanctioned violence against other faiths was also common to both religions as well...as was
their subjugation and ban on educating women that were practiced by both as well...and dont get me started on
the Protestants...that list of abuse is far too long

Greg Thorne history my friend ..actions and their results..

Deacon Ananias Sorem Perry Robinson, Jay Dyer, Seraphim Hamilton. Revisionist history. It sounds
exactly like the Bolsheviks lies that fuelled their bloody atheistic revolution. Furthermore, even if what you were
saying were true, the Orthodox Church never sanctioned any of this violence and oppression. What synod
suggested such? We can admit that the actions of the state or Emperor can at times go against the Church and her
teachings, but somehow that is the Orthodox Church's fault? And no it isn't even remotely similar to the Catholic
Church who declared in the Donations of Pepin that the Pope is both universal supreme bishop and Emperor of
all. We Orthodox have a name for this and called the Latins out for this heresy: it is called Caeseropapism. The
Roman Catholic church is heretical by Eastern Orthodox standards and has been condemned for its actions and
doctrines. Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church and clergy do not engage in violence or
warfare. It is simply against the canons and has never happened historically. Pointing out what the state does
wrong obviously doesn't apply to the Church, even if the state did it in the name of religion. This is as silly as the
new atheist's arguments (e.g., Hitchens, Dawkins, Kraus, etc.), which by the way, no one in academia - including
atheists - take these guys and their arguments seriously. Furthermore, Russians haven't left the Orthodox
Christian faith like the West and France. Despite the atheist Bolsheviks attempting to genocide all Orthodox
Christians, today Russians are growing in their Orthodox faith in unprecedent numbers and rates. So great is the
faith is Russia today, they are building 500 Orthodox Churches every year. The East is not the West, and as
someone who studies history, you should know this.

Greg Thorne Hitchens and Dawkins have valid arguments that have not been refuted ...they are in fact
acclaimed by many scholars and people...l agree with them as well...most all churches claim devine authority
and thats where the problem begins...they then deny the actions their followers take throughout history because
"we wouldnt do that...we are the devinely chosen lambs of god"...your posts help create an environment resulting
in the incredibly high suicide , violence and murder rate of LGBTQ citizens...you must own that your words
have consequences that echo through historyhippie is correct...not perfect is correct...kindness and
decency is my heritage though...l live that with every fiber of my being

Deacon Ananias Sorem Also, I should qualify as to what has happened to me. These are not my personal
opinions. They are the eternal truths of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (the Orthodox Church). I
am duty bound as clergy of the Church to maintain and defend her unchanging eternal doctrines as they have
revealed to us and handed down from Christ to the Apostles and to the Church. Although I am a sinner and not
worthy of God's grace, I follow the Holy Fathers who knew the responsibility to preserve the Truth of Divine
Revelation, just as it was revealed by God and had been passed down by the Apostles and eye witnesses of His
life and oral teaching on earth. Just as they had to be aware for themselves and for the whole flock from any false
teachings coming from heretics. They believed they had the responsibility, not only before God, but also before
their flock, and they struggled to build up and to strengthen the faithful in the true faith of Christ and the
Apostles. Therefore, I quote from the Synodikon of the 7th Ecumenical council:

"As the Prophets saw, as the Apostles taught, as the Church has received, as the Teachers express in dogma, as
the inhabited world understands together with them, as grace illumines, as the truth makes clear, as error has
been banished, as wisdom makes bold to declare, as Christ has assured, so we think, so we speak, so we preach,
honoring Christ our true God, and his Saints, in words, in writings, in thoughts, in sacrifices, in churches, in
icons, worshipping and revering the One as God and Lord, and honoring them because of their common Lord as
those who are close to him and serve him, and making to them relative veneration. This is the faith of the
Apostles; this is the faith of the Fathers; this is the faith of the Orthodox; this faith that established the universe.
These preachers of true religion, we praise as brothers and as those we long to have as our fathers, to the glory
and honor of the true religion for which they struggled." Amen.

Greg Thorne l guess l just dont believe in divine truth as revealed by god and handed down to special
dispensers of that wisdom...lve seen gods come and go throughout history ..so no offence...l will abstain from
those things in this life

Deacon Ananias Sorem Apples and oranges Greg. Other gods have nothing in common with the orthodox
notion of God, other than the word, but if you would like me to change the word, since words are more important
to you than the concepts they signify, I can. By the way, that is also another fallacy: the word-concept fallacy.