Meeting Information

Subject/Title: 2010 Independent Supporters Meeting

Date/Time: Saturday November 20, 2010 10:00 Location: Shoeless Joes, Toronto, Ontario
– 12:00
Agenda: 1. Introductions
2. Guest Speakers
a. Abram Goldman-Armstrong representative to the Independent Supporters
Council (soccersupporters.org)
b. Steven Powell, Director of Policy, Football Supporter’s Federation of England
and Wales (fsf.org.uk)
3. Open Discussion – Supporters Solidarity
4. Agreement in Principle
5. Next Steps
6. Meeting Closeout

Meeting Participants

Facilitator: Harold Dremlin (RPB)

Meeting Attendees:
& Meeting
Absentees
Attendance list_list
Supporters Final List 2010-for minutes.xls

Notes Taken By: Martin Zaniewski (RPB) and validated by Abram Goldman-Armstrong (TA) & Harold
Dremlin (RPB)
Minutes

1. Welcome & • This forum is being held to discuss the concept of an independent supporter’s voice
Action Items to represent common issues faced by all supporters groups. The event is being held
away from the MLS cup activities due to the keen belief that any unified voice must
be separate from the influence of the league.
2. Guest Speaker Abram Goldman-Armstrong is the editor of Whipsaw, a Timbers fanzine and sits on the
(Abram) 107 Independent Supports Trust board. In addition since last year he has been working
to form an independent supporters union akin to Budnis Aktiver Fussball Fanatiker in
Germany of Football Supporters Federation in the UK. The following are key highlights
from Abe’s presentation to the group:
• The concept of an independent supporters union advocating for football supporters
and supporter culture was first discussed during the Supporters Summit in Seattle
in ’09.
• At that time representatives from Vancouver Southsiders, Seattle FC Alliance Council,
Seattle Gorilla FC, Portland Timbers Army, Chivas USA Union Ultras, San Jose,
Philadelphian Sons of Ben, Colorado Centennial Firm, and Victoria, BC Bravehearts
(PDL) discussed the formation of this union.
• From those discussions the Independent Supporters Council was formed and to date
has established a forum for discussion (www.soccersupporters.org), drafted and
ratified a charter, and assisted in the reversal of a flag and drum ban in Los Angeles.
• The ISC hopes to continue to grow and Abe suggested anyone interested visit the
soccersupportesr website. Groups are welcome to make recommendations to
change the charter and to discuss issues away from the chatter of big soccer message
boards.
• Chicago has offered to host an independent supporters meeting to continue
discussions and evolving the ISC prior the beginning of the next MLS season in the
spring time frame.
• Abe highlighted four critical points that demonstrate the need for a unified voice for
supporters in North America:
i. Away ticketing issues
ii.Supporters Section Pricing (i.e Vancouver / Toronto)
iii. A unified voice: Tom Dunmore Chicago Section 8 Chairman
says, “the league reacts to soccer moms. We have to make the
ISC’s voice loud enough and organized enough to be heard”
iv. League is starting to recognize the importance of supporter
culture and we need to push them in the right direction.
3. Guest Speaker Steve Powell is the Director of Policy and Campaigns for the Football Supporters
(Steve) Federation (http://www.fsf.org.uk). The FSF was created in 2002 with the merger of the
National Federation of Football Supporters and Football Supporters Association. The FSF
has over 180,000 individual fans and supporters and is the unified voice for supporters in
England.

Steve spoke to the group about the history of the FSF and in particular the benefits of a
unified supporter’s voice. The following are highlights of his presentation:

• On a national level send out information for traveling fans where to go, etc and
provide a hotline to help supporters abroad having issues. Now expanding club
based support for traveling fans.
• Overall the FSF has set a positive image for supporters and received response
and support from the Government, and football organizations.
• Steve noted that consensus building is critical and while it may be a timely
process it works and the group can work together and implement the change
they seek. Rivalries within the group exist but all supporters face common issues
(i.e. ticketing, travel, etc).
• Steve offered to provide advice and suggestions as the groups requests in order
to help build a strong unified voice and stand up for our game. In response to a
question he commented that we have a fantastic opportunity to organize now as
we have a clean sheet of paper.
• Within the FSF everyone’s vote is equal regardless of the size of the group and
multiple groups exist that support the same club.
• Steve stressed that the importance of remaining independent from the league
and to ensure the league(s) realize that we have no value to you unless we are
independent be a principle message that must get through to the owners, police,
etc.
• In time the entity will realize the value that a unified supporter’s voice can
provide.
4. Open Everyone in attendance agreed that having a unified voice for overarching supporters
Discussion issues is the right thing to do. The group then began discussing how to make it happen.
The following are some of the key items that were brought up during the discussion.

Would the council/union/entity include all supporters in North America or primarily

focus on MLS as a starting point?
• Steve noted that the FSF is open to all supporters regardless of club / division. In
many cases there may be issues that only impact certain groups but even then
the voice of everyone is still powerful.
• The current focus should be on building the proper framework for this group to
succeed. Steve commented that the group should build a framework that works
positively with MLS but does not close the doors to other supporters in North
America.
• Abe noted that the current ISC is open to all supporters regardless of league /
division and everyone has a voice and benefits from the shared experience of
the group.

How does ISC or any future construct deal with multiple supporters group of varying
sizes and equality of votes:

• Abe noted that presently the council considers all groups’ votes equal however,
the door is open to exploring a weighted system or leaving the voting structure
as is now. Steve also noted that within the FSF even though all votes are equal
they have never experienced issues that most groups did not agree on.
• Abe also noted that the existing ISC charter is very loose and its structure can be
reviewed and enhanced to meet everyone’s common vision.

• The group decided that the most practical and efficient way to develop the charter
and define the scope of the council would be to assign an independent committee to
review all the options and propose changes back to the larger membership.

• The committee would be responsible for creating the framework in order to facilitate
further discussion and agreement.

• The majority of the groups need to take back today’s discussion and ideas back to
their membership but overall were very supportive. In addition, all the groups in the
room noted that they would try to send a representative to Chicago in the spring.

• Hal commented on the importance of making sure that the council and committee
remain as “team” neutral as possible.

• Steve suggested that the committee release working papers to the larger
membership to facilitate greater input and feedback prior to the final release of the
documents.

• The committee is also asked to take a look into a council that helps alleviate burnout
by rotating people. This has the added benefit of ensuring all groups have the
opportunity to be more intimately involved in a council should they wish to do so.
5. Next Steps / To continue the momentum built from the session the following tasks and timelines were
Closeout agreed to by all those in attendance.
1. All supporters groups are requested to review the existing ISC material at
www.soccersupporters.org . Feedback should be provided to the Working
Committee lead (to be determined)
2. Supporters Groups in attendance are asked to promote the notion of a unified
supporters voice in North America to their membership and to any supporters
groups not in attendance.
3. A committee consisting of the volunteers from today and ISC members will be
formed to perform the following by January 17th:
a. The committee will consolidate the feedback from all the various SGs and
document the commonalities.
b. Based on that feedback the committee will suggest changes to the existing
ISC charter and structure.
c. The working committee is also encouraged to review external material such
as the Football Supporters Federation and leverage their best practices in
the development of a revised charter.
d. The committee is to distribute their suggested changes around January 17th
to all interested parties.
4. The revisions proposed by the working committee will be reviewed and
discussed in the Spring Supporters Summit.
6. Working The following meeting attendees volunteered to participate in the working committee:
Committee
• Ron Rickard (San Jose)
• Donald P Gagliard (San Jose)
• Rodney LaRocque (Angel City Brigade)
• Dave Cleland (Rapids)
• Scott Brockington (North End Elite)
• Brian Hibbard (PID Army)
• Sandro Soler (Galaxians)
• Richard Bamber (Bulldog Supporters Group)
• Connie Zimmer (Red Patch Boys)
• Rob Wagner (Red Patch Boys)
• Martin Zaniewski (Red Patch Boys)
• Abram Goldman-Armstrong (Timbers Army 107 Independent Supporters Trust)