INTERVIEW

Vin DiCarlo

Adam Gilad
Gilad Creative Media, Inc.

April 2010

ADAM
Hey, this is Adam Gilad and welcome to today’s session on Dating After
Thirty-Five / Dating After Forty.
Now, we’ve talked in other sessions, other trainings in this program about
very specific skill sets: how to approach; how to create rapport; how to
refine your sense of authority; how to refine your sense of freedom; how to
refine your sense of being a warrior so that you can access that, your lover,
your magician; how to really become king of your life. So there’s a lot of
focus on self refinement because if you really want to attract a high quality
woman, you’ve got to make yourself a highest quality man possible so that
they’re naturally attracted to you, so you don’t have to go out selling
yourself, which, by the way, is not attractive.
Today’s session is a little different, what we’re going to do is focus not so
much on understanding ourselves but really understanding the different
types of women that are out there. And I have a very special guest, his name
is Vin DiCarlo. Vin, welcome.

VIN
Hey, Adam, thanks

ADAM
Vin has done extraordinary research on creating rapport with different types
of women. And so, what we’re going to do today is look at the different
kinds of women that are out there. He has a system called “Pandora’s Box.”
I have to ask you why you called it that, by the way, it sounds very
dangerous.
And we’re going to talk about the mistakes that guys make when they try to
create rapport with women and what you can do right once you’ve identified
what kind of woman you’re talking to, what personality type.
So, Vin, before we even get started, I know some funny stuff about your
history, how awful you were with women when you were young. Could you
just give us a brief history of how you became one of the leading dating
coaches in New York?

VIN
That is a good question. And you are right about me being pretty bad when I
was younger. I got married really young, actually when I was 22. I know
you got married young too, right?

ADAM
Yup.

VIN
And mine though lasted only about six months. It’s kind of those marriages
that were like out of desperation. She’s really the first girl that kind of paid
any attention to me. And having complete lack of control and choice and
freedom and everything else, I got married to her and, of course, it was
disaster. And so after that I kind of decided that it was one of those things
that I wanted to get handled. Being younger, made a lot of mistakes, really
didn’t have my life together in many ways, not just with women but also
financially. I was actually working as a janitor at that time, driving an old
beat-up cleaning van.

ADAM
Sexy.

VIN
What’s funny is actually, I developed my skills with women far beyond the
other skills in my life, which was kind of challenging. You know, like
taking women around in this kind of old beat-up van, which is kind of the
story of limiting beliefs about needing money to be able to get women. But
looking back, I’m realizing that now having all the different parts of my life
in order, as you say, kind of being a king of your reality, that it makes it a lot
easier, definitely a lot more effortless when meeting women.

ADAM
So talk about what changes you made and how you became a coach and
what the fundamental principles you teach are.

VIN
Well, see, what changes that I make? Number one – jeez, that’s a good
question – I think the biggest thing was really just the decision to actually do
something like this. The decision to kind of really get a handle being aware
that yes, there’s a problem and this is something that I wanted fixed. That’s
probably like the biggest fundamental change that kind of cascades and so
all these others smaller changes, lifestyle changes, things like, going out lot
more often.

ADAM
Getting rid of the van?

VIN
Getting rid of the van, yeah, when I eventually could. Let’s see what else…

ADAM
But really the key thing is that you really made a decision to shift your life.

VIN
Right, exactly.

ADAM
That’s what I was really going for because I think a lot of people buy self-
help books and they buy dating products and they buy fitness products, and
they never actually put them to use.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
So I just want to hit this point that at some point you say, “I can make my
life better, I’m going to do it. I commit to doing it.” So I wanted to just
iterate to everyone out there, whoever is listening, all this information is
good information and you got to put it into action. One of the key indicators
of entrepreneurial success, by the way – because I’m also a student of
entrepreneurialism – is swiftness of implementation. They found that the
people who are truly successful as entrepreneurs are people who learn
something and immediately put into action and test it and get going. And I
want to iterate that everything we learn today, I want people to put into
action immediately.

VIN
Right. That definitely applies to what I was doing because when I was
studying how to get better with women, I wasn’t waiting for success, I
wasn’t waiting till I had a better car, I wasn’t waiting till I made more
money. I would just actually go out and try anyway and take women back to
my crappy one bedroom apartment and take women back in my beautiful
cleaning van. And I think one problem that guys have is waiting especially
once you get into 30s and 40s, how much longer are you going to wait? You
know, life is there for the taking and it really is about taking action and
making that decision to take care of this.

ADAM
Absolutely. So let’s talk about men as they leave that sort of early phase of
leaving a van and hitting the clubs, we start hitting 35s, start hitting 40, I
know you’ve coached guys really of all ages. And I want you to just run
down real fast before we get to the types of women, which I think is
fascinating stuff, I want you to run down the mistakes that you see over and
over guys, who are over 35, making both internally and their interactions
with women.

VIN
Yeah, I coached guys in the past 10 years of serving the, I guess you called
men’s dating instruction industry, training literally thousands of guys and
probably half of all guys that show up at life training events are in their 30s,
40s, 50s, I even had a few clients in their 70s. And more importantly for
myself, I’m getting into my 30's now; I definitely start to notice difference
on how women respond to me. And so, I guess selfishly I’ve been giving a
lot of thought to dating as I get older, getting into the peak phase in my life
and really have some leverage and get to work my fear.
So what I’ve noted is that most mistakes that guys make and there’s really
five big ones that I’m going to talk about. The first one is really being
ashamed and hiding their age. They’ll avoid the topic. They’ll lie about
their age. If a woman asks how old they are, they say, guess, and they’ll
play guessing games for five minutes.

ADAM
Terrible response.

VIN
It’s terrible, yeah.

ADAM
Well, actually I do that sometimes. But I know because of how I take care
of myself they’re always going to guess younger, so it’s a little ego thing for
me.

VIN
Yeah. But you, I’m guessing that when you do it you don’t make them
guess for half hour.

ADAM
About two years.

VIN
Two years?

ADAM
Yeah.

VIN
[Inaudible]

ADAM
Okay. So what is good response, by the way, that shows you’re not
ashamed?

VIN
Well, you just say it outright without flinching, “I’m 48,” or whatever it is.

ADAM
Right.
VIN
What it really demonstrates is that if the guy is insecure, the age is
irrelevant. She could care less about the number. It’s what she’s really
reading as the energy and the vibe, and how does this guy feel about his age.
It’s the age, it’s how do you feel about it. Are you insecure about it or are
you confident, are you owning up to it?

ADAM
Good. Excellent point. And so, what do you do internally when guys are
ashamed of their age? What is the advice or coaching process you give?

VIN
When guys actually are being ashamed? Well, you have to realize that
there’s distinct difference between men and women as they get older. I
think that as men get older, they actually get better and more valuable, more
attractive. Whereas women, in my point of view is, they hit their peak in
their early 20s and from there all of woman’s assets, all things that were
attractive start to deteriorate. Whereas the man becomes more experienced,
he becomes worldlier, he has more things that he can talk about, more life
experiences. And so, I think that a man’s value really increases.
And just getting guys to realize that, and getting guide or maybe lists all
those things that is actually getting better in his life, things that he’s
accumulating, will really change his focus and in helping to understand it.
That as he gets older, he can add more value to a woman’s life, as a teacher,
as an authority, sort of like really guide her.

ADAM
Excellent. True. By the way, all those throw in, yeah, we all traditionally
think all the things that we value in young women, that their value goes
down. But the rest of the things that do go up, and I want to be fair, once
you’ve dated enough young women, you start to really appreciate a woman
who’s got some experience herself and who is more settled in her life and is
just a better companion. So, I don’t want to say that everything about a
woman goes down.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Certainly, bodily, unfortunately.
VIN
Right.

ADAM
Okay, so that’s one mistake. So men tend to be ashamed and hide their age
and what we should do is – it’s great practice, by the way – list everything
you’re getting better at in your life. And by the way, if the stuff that you
want to list and you’re not listing, that you’d like to handle, handle them. I
mean, there’s nothing stopping anybody from just getting better and building
more experience. It’s a matter of choice. Turning off the TV and giving
your attention to self-development, whatever it is, whether it’s physical
development or emotional development, social development, it doesn’t
matter, just do it.

VIN
Right. Never stop improving.

ADAM
Absolutely. Okay. So, what’s the second biggest mistake?

VIN
Alright. Number two that we found is that guys will over compensate and
act young. So, they’re going to deny about their age. I’ll actually see guys
that are dressing really young. They’ll be getting leather jackets and
jewelry, like necklaces. And really, there’s nothing worse than an older guy
trying to look like a washed out punk rocker.

ADAM
Yup. It’s funny, I’m in L.A. and I’m around a lot of musicians so I know a
lot of, I wouldn’t even go washed out, they’re actually really famous
musicians who are huge in the ‘70s and ‘80s and they still dress that way.

VIN
Yeah. If you’re a musician, it’s fine. The problem is when you’re not.

ADAM
Exactly. So, what do you say to avoid?
VIN
Well, just basically a fashion makeover is what they needed. And they need
to understand, they need to own it. They need to own their age and feel
confident about it and really take that. It’s almost like a, I don’t want to say
persona, but it’s almost like you want to own up to your age and you want to
be that distinguished, experienced, sophisticated guy, that worldly guy that
has life experiences and when you become congruent with that and when all
the different parts of your life become congruent with that, specifically, how
you dressed and how you act, when those things are all aligned you just
become so much more powerful.

ADAM
Okay. So we’re going to have part of this program, by the way, we’re
talking to a Hollywood stylist, who is an expert in dressing men. So we’ll
get some great incite on that

VIN
Oh, that’s perfect.

ADAM
Alright. So, what are other mistakes that guys make?

VIN
So, the third mistake is when a guy gives away his power. And this is
critical when dating a woman that’s younger. You absolutely need to be the
one that’s in control, in control of your own life, not chasing too hard, not
coming on too strong. It might be okay if you’re 18 years old and you’re
dating a girl that’s in the 20s, being aggressive because she’s going to
understand that. But when you’re older, you need to be very self controlled,
very acting natural and letting her almost come to you a little bit.
So, that will all conclude being in control of, being the lead on the date,
being the authority, sharing your experiences, showing her what you can
teach her about life, and just being the one that’s really the one that’s in
control of the relationship.

ADAM
Yeah. And there are simple ways of being in control. One of the phrases
our friend, John Alanis uses is “being in control but not controlling.” So,
one of the ways you could show you’re in control or directive is if you’re on
a date, you have three places planned. You actually have a plan and you’re
taking her from place to place. It’s much more exciting that just going to A
place. That’s just a very small thing.

VIN
Yeah, exactly. That’s right.

ADAM
And also not running after a girl is very, very important, especially after 35,
where there’s so much abundance, by the way, because you have doubled
the dating pool.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
So, it’s important to state your interest but do not run after. Okay. What
else?

VIN
Okay, number four is that, talking too much about money and work and
success.

ADAM
Yes. Good call.

VIN
That’s a big one.

ADAM
And that’s not so much of flaw of character, it’s just that guys over 35 tend
to be really focused on that.

VIN
Yeah, exactly. A lot of the guys, once they hit 30s, they tend to be more
successful, they start to hit stride in their career. And one of the biggest
difference when you’re dating a younger woman is that, yes, you are going
to have more money than her, yes, you’re going to have more success, more
knowledge about business, more connections, more ability in general view
things in life that you want to do, but one huge turn off that women have
with dating older guys is that they focused too much on it, they talk about
money, they talk about their success way too much, and basically, it just
makes it hard to relate to that.
Because even if you’re successful – and being successful is great, I think it’s
something that you absolutely should strive for – but as far as attraction in
women, that success in money is only get you so far. And if it becomes too
much of a big deal in your life and you keep having this shove it in her face,
she’s not going to be able to relate to that because really, all they want is a
connection. They want you to be able to relate under level, even with that
success.

ADAM
And it’s really true for any woman. You don’t want to just be talking about
work, obviously.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Okay. Especially in the case of younger women. And what’s the fifth thing
you’ve seen big mistakes guys make?

VIN
The fifth and final would be assuming that all women are exactly the same.
And this happens because I think that when a guy is a little bit older, he
starts to just say, “Oh, she’s a younger woman.” He might be dating a
couple of women that are around his age and then he’ll just kind of see all of
the other younger ones as like exactly the same, and it’s just not true.
The biggest advantage that guy can create for himself is, first,
acknowledging that all women are different but not really that different.

ADAM
So, what’s “not different”?

VIN
Well, to really illustrate this, I want you to imagine two very different
women, alright? We’ll call them Mary and Candy.

ADAM
Can I have candy?
VIN
You have a girl named Candy?

ADAM
No, I think I’d prefer the one named Candy though, just on the names.

VIN
Yeah, before I even described each one, I’m guessing that you might be right
on that.

ADAM
Okay, go ahead.

VIN
Let’s say that they’re both 21 years old and in college. So most guys would
call them, would put them in the same exact category, younger women.
But let’s say that Mary’s had only three serious boyfriends and she likes to
read, she likes to watch movies, she goes to church, she likes to study for
exams, she’s not into casual dating, she’s only had sex with three guys and
maybe she had one one-night-stand when she was 19 that she regrets.
Alright?
Candy has dated 20 guys in the freshman, sophomore years of college. Let’s
say she goes to clubs, dresses very provocatively, gets a lot of male
attention, she gets hit on a lot and she’s even thinking about becoming a
stripper.
Now, even though they’re both 21 and let’s say the guy dating them is 35
years old, would he use the same strategy to date both women? Would he
expect them to be attracted to the same exact things? I don’t think that you
would. I mean, what would you think, Adam?

ADAM
No, exactly not, of course.

VIN
I mean, me and my best friend, we have a lot in common but we can’t agree
even at like, who we find attractive.
ADAM
I think it really hit a key point here, because when I talk to a lot of guys who
I know through my programs, when I ask them, over 35, over 40, what’s the
most important thing? A lot of them said, “I want to date younger women.”
That’s what they said. And they have this category in their mind, but then
it’s natural, I mean that’s what the mind does, the mind creates categories
and it helps to organize the world, but it doesn’t necessarily organized it into
truth.

VIN
Right, that’s true.

ADAM
So, that’s already a huge lesson I just claimed from you today. If anytime I
say or anyone listening says a category of women know, become
immediately aware that you are so over generalizing, that you’re losing the
specificity of the people you’re talking to.
There might be a 23-year-old who might be your best companion if you’re
45. She might be brilliant and worldly and well-read. And you might be a
45-year-old woman who – I had a woman say to me, [inaudible] a
hairdresser, “I’ve only read two books in my life.”

VIN
Wow!

ADAM
She knows I’m a writer, she says, “I’ve only read two books.” I, of course,
asked what two books.

VIN
Those should be good ones.

ADAM
Elvis biography was the one I remember. So, if a girl is 23 and well-read,
she might be a much better companion for me. So, anytime a man says, “I
like younger women,” know that you’re actually blinding yourself to what
actually might be out there and I think it will really be to detriment to not
really meet each person as an individual. There might a 25-year-old who’s
dying to go out with a 45-year-old and I think a few 25-year-old who thinks
it’s gross.
VIN
Right. That’s true. Not only the age thing but I was actually talking to a girl
last night and she was saying that some of the things that she loves that guys
do for her, her best friend is completely repulsed by them, like certain
romantic things that guys will do, she loves that stuff and her best friend
hates it.

ADAM
There you go.

VIN
And they are the exact same age, I think they’re both 21. So, being aware of
women’s differences, and I’m going to get into this, exactly how to do that.
About two years ago, I started a research project called the “Pandora’s Box”
that was kind of the code name for, that was a kind of a secret project that I
kept on the racks for a long time, where we actually interviewed thousands
of women, we surveyed women, we dated every type of women possible, we
did video interviews, we read books on female psychology and we really
were able to isolate eight very specific female personality types. And what’s
the striking difference is that two types can have very, very different reaction
to the same exact thing.
For example, sexual tension, using sexual language, I know this is
something that you’re familiar with too, because you use a lot of language
and stuff that you do, right, Adam?

ADAM
Of course. Yeah, I’m a linguist and a writer by nature and by profession,
and I love how language can affect people, the choice of a single word.

VIN
Right, exactly. So, things like innuendo, strong sexual language, aggressive
touching, all that stuff that I would call sexual tension is extremely powerful
and get someone turn on really, really fast. But the thing is, it’s not going to
have that same effect on every type of women. It’s really going to work
with sexually confident, liberated women, and with a girl that’s more
inexperienced or more of the hurts, sexual language will have no reaction at
all or it might even freak her out.

ADAM
True.
VIN
The women that are more sexually open, they allow their sexual experiences
and images float freely in their consciousness throughout the day. So, when
you’re using that language, what you’re basically doing is you’re triggering
those experiences and you’re activating those parts of our mind and when it
works, it works like crazy.
But when the girl is more reserved, she compartmentalizes sex. In other
words, she suppresses those sexual experiences and really saves them for
when she’s feeling like super comfortable with a guy.

ADAM
Super safe, yeah.

VIN
Yeah, exactly.

ADAM
Interesting. Well, look, I know you did two years of research and I’ve seen
a lot of it, but can we walk through those eight types, and what specifically
are the best ways to create rapport with each of those eight types?

VIN
Sure. Okay, so, number one, we got the Playettes. And the Playette is the
type of girl that leads a lot of guys on, she’s got like 10 guy friends who all
want her and they all think they have a chance with her, but she’s not having
sex with any of them, or maybe just one of them. She’ll only sleep with a
guy that’s got long-term relationship potential and even when she does,
she’s still going to have those guys as backups. And she’s the type of girl
that’s really good for a guy that just wants to have fun and if a guy knows
how to tame her, she can become really, really loyal.

ADAM
So, what is the best approach to dealing with someone like this, to creating a
connection?

VIN
Alright. With Playette, the real way of getting her is to beat her at her own
game. In other words, let her know that you have other options. Not in the
way that’s combative and not in the way that’s transparently trying to make
her jealous, but just letting her know that you can hang and that she’s
actually one of your options, is going to prevent her from treating you like
the rest of the other guys and at the same time explaining in a way where
you become the first one to become intimate with her is really going to make
it happen a lot more faster.

ADAM
Very cool. So, you have to create scarcity because her game is to create
scarcity.

VIN
Exactly.

ADAM
And the obvious flipside of that, the mistake would be …

VIN
The mistake would be trying and compete with the other guys.

ADAM
Yeah. You don’t enter her game, in other words, if she’s a Playette.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
She’s playing her game, and you don’t play her game you play yours. Well,
they find that really frustrating at first. I’m having some memories. When
you don’t respond like every other guy, obviously, it makes it more
interesting.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
So, give me an example. Give me a concrete example of what you might
say or handle a very specific challenge that she might put out.
VIN
Well, one of the things that they’ll do is, they’ll try to bait you into
competing with other guys in their life. So, they will do something like, talk
about how she’s hanging out with this guy or that guy.
I was actually dating a girl one time and she said that, “Yeah, it will be cool
to have like, all you guys come over and hang out at the same time.” And I
think the gut instinct for most men would be to be like, “Okay, sure.” And
then try to go and like try to compete with the other guys, try to show that
you’re more out for her or try to show that you’re cooler, you make more
money, or whatever else more than the other guys.
But the key really is to not compete with them at all. Say you want to be
outside of that room or that group of guys. Because the truth is she’s not
really sleeping with any of them, so you don’t want to get stuck into that
group.

ADAM
Okay. Excellent. What’s the second type?

VIN
The Social Butterfly. So, this is like the typical party girl, she’s pretty,
energetic, talks to everyone including you and leaves everyone wanting
more. But you don’t know if she’s flirting or she’s just like, whatever you
want, and she knows exactly what she’s doing. She’s probably dating
multiple guys but this, the Social Butterfly, is different than the Playette
because the social butterfly is actually having sex with both of the guys,
getting physical with them. She’s a lot more sexually liberated than the
Playette but in the back of her mind she’s looking for that ideal guy to settle
down with.

ADAM
Interesting. Alright. So, to create rapport with someone like this, she’s
obviously used to getting a lot of attention as well, how do you create
rapport with someone like that?

VIN
Well, in terms of creating rapport, definitely a lot of the same techniques
applied from the Playette like showing that you have options too. But
remember, she maybe sleeping with other guys so you want to really get
outside of the realm of the other guys by pushing her limits in the bedroom
(that’s assuming that you are having sex with her).
By being more experienced, this is really where being older is actually huge
advantage because when you’re older and you have more experience, it’s a
lot easier to kind of share that experience with her, and social butterflies are
actually very much drawn to guys with a lot of experience.

ADAM
So, what kind of experience would you put forward, beyond the bedroom,
just in talking someone like that, if you’re at a party and you know that she’s
the kind of girl that gets everyone’s attention?

VIN
Well, let’s see, a lot of stuff that you talk about, Adam, is really great. I
noticed this from hanging out with you the other night is that you have a lot
of experience in entertainment and things like that, you have life experience
with famous people, you’re very well-traveled, and anything along those
lines is going to be very powerful with a social butterfly.

ADAM
Yeah. Intrigued.

VIN
Intrigued, exactly.

ADAM
So, some examples, some things a guy can do, by the way, if you can’t get
her off exotic travel, which I’m making a point to do, not that it’s easy for
me always, but I make it a point to keep my mind and life fresh because I get
bored really easily and if I’m boring myself chances are I’m going to bore
women. So I try to do really interesting exotic travel.
I also try to become expert in sort of interesting things for women. For
example, I just discovered when I was really starting to learn about tantra a
few years ago, I discovered that whenever I sat in a café, which that’s all we
do in L.A., of course, whenever I sat in a café and had a big book of tantra in
front of me and I held it up as I read it, inevitably a conversation would start.
A woman would come over and start talking to me.
So, do things that are interesting to women, start building up experience,
things that are interesting to them. I mean, a man who takes time to learn
how to be a better lover is unusual manner in this culture.

VIN
Right. Another thing you could do with this type of a woman since she is
experienced is very dominating physically. And I’m not saying like,
pushing her around or anything but having a playful energy and controlling.
Like, if you’re dancing with her, guiding her body, spinning her around, if
you’re standing in a crowded area, throw her over your shoulder in arm,
walk to less crowded spot. Like, just being really physically authoritative is
going to work really well with this type of woman.

ADAM
And thinking nothing of it, not make a deal of it. Just throw her over your
shoulder, carry, put down, and start a conversation as if nothing happened.

VIN
Right. Big, fun movements are very exciting to this type of woman.

ADAM
Big, fun movements, I like that. Okay. Like dipping her, is a great thing.

VIN
Exactly.

ADAM
By the way, if you dip her – I was a dancer, believe it or not, in my youth –
if you dip her, hold her down there where if you let go she would fall – of
course, you’re not going to let go – but hold here in a position for a few
extra seconds and then let her up slowly. Let her experience that thrill of
falling almost in your arms and then, again, don’t make a big deal out of it.
It’s the same thing as carrying her over your shoulder, if you make a big
deal, “Look what I’ve done” now you’ve blown the coolness.

VIN
Right. Sometimes you’ll do that and a girl will be like, “Let me down. Let
me down.” But it’s not that she’s like really upset, as long as she’s not
really upset, she’s just telling you to let her down, a lot of guys get scared,
“Oh, okay, sorry, I didn’t mean to do that” all apologetic for what they did,
that’s the wrong way of approaching it. You have to do it authoritatively
and stand behind what you do, stand behind your decisions.

ADAM
Yes, excellent! Well said. Okay, that’s the social butterfly. I like big, broad
physically motions. Excellent. What’s the next, third type?

VIN
The Hopeful Romantic. This is the type of girl that’s, she’s really waiting
for her perfect man and she’s the type of girl that’s going to hold back
everything until she finds the guy that fulfills her.
Now, here’s the catch, and this is something that most guys don’t realize is
that you don’t really have to be perfect. And I mean, between you and me,
what guy really is perfect? But what’s really important is the potential to be
a perfect guy for her. She wants to see you as a work in progress.
If she’s going to date you to try to improve you, be careful because if she fix
you, if she has something she’s trying to fix with you, one mistake that a lot
of guys make is that they will let her fix them, they’ll change too much for
her. And that’s boring because then she loses the thing that attracted her in
the first place.

ADAM
Excellent! That’s really true. This is the danger of getting into relationship
before you’re both kind of cooked. When you’re both under-cooked…

VIN
Under-cooked?

ADAM
Right, under-cooked, when you get into a relationship too early. As you and
I both did, got married 23-24, I got married kind of savior-saved relationship
and what happens if she wasn’t cooked, I wasn’t cooked either. But I was…

VIN
I still am not sure I understand what you mean by cooked.

ADAM
Just think of like, meat that’s not ready. Like, you’re not really ripe for a
relationship. Like, you haven’t really simmered long enough.
VIN
Got that.

ADAM
So, if you get involved in a savior-saved relationship, whether it’s a younger
woman or your same age, there’s a certain dynamics that you brings you
together. Now what happens is soon enough her attitude would be, “Why
are you telling me what to do, you don’t respect me,” and your attitude
would be, “What’s wrong with you,” and “How come you don’t have it
together?” Right?

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Even though that’s really what brought you together. The flipside of that is
that sometimes the woman develops, or the saved person develops, and then
now they’re in unsteady relationship because they’re not really sure how to
relate to each other. Right? So they have to adjust to that new dynamic.
So it’s very dangerous to get into a relationship, to lock yourself into a
relationship before you’re booth cooked, in other words, before you really
both understand each other and you could communicate, more or less, as
equals.

VIN
Exactly, yeah. And another thing, some things that work really well for the
Hopeful Romantic, eye contact, being direct. By being direct, I mean
demonstrating and showing your intention that you do want a romantic
relationship with this girl but not by saying it with words.
I was actually on a phone coaching with a guy the other day and he was
asking me if I thought it was a good idea for him to kind of come out and tell
her his feelings for her. Now, this is a guy who hasn’t kissed her yet. And I
said, no, don’t do that. What you can do is you can show her with your body
language, how you touch her, how you look at her, show her your interest
that way, show her by physical expression, show her by becoming intimate
with her. If you try to do it with words, it almost tends like asking for
permission, which is usually bad.
ADAM
It’s also putting all your cards on the table, which is a little weak.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
By the way, here’s a nice tip in that area and I didn’t strategize this, I just
realized it was coming out of my mouth, but the woman who I’m seeing
now, I found myself saying to her, because I really felt it, I said, “I love the
person you’ve become, I love the person you created, I love the person
you’re turning out to be,” and I meant it. I just like how she handles life. I
really respect how she’s living, the choices she’s made. “I love the way
you’ve chosen.”

VIN
It’s a great compliment.

ADAM
Yeah, well, she’s a great woman. Another way you can say it is – and this is
a lovely thing – is to say, “I love the way you treat people. I love the way
you’re so gracious with that person, who is such as creep, or who was angry.
I just love how you handled that.”
So you can use the love word without saying, “Oh, I love you,” or “I’m
yours, now walk on me,” or you can love very specific virtues of theirs that
you really cherish and that you’re showing you actually see. And I know
because I pay attention to women, a lot of women say to me, “You see me in
ways that other people don’t see me.” And I think it’s just because I’m
paying attention and I’m looking for things to cherish.

VIN
You’re spending all the energy at love without coming across weak. You’re
showing appreciation at something very specific and you’re sending her that
energy without saying that I love you. Saying I love you is, most guys say
that so they can hear it back. They’re not doing it because they’re giving
something to the woman, they’re doing it because they need it, and they
need to hear it.

ADAM
Or it’s a quick door way to sex.
VIN
Is it?

ADAM
Yeah.

VIN
I’m not so sure about that.

ADAM
Well, let’s do an experiment.

VIN
Sure.

ADAM
But I want to say another thing, about being over 35, by the way, and this is
actually a little more about being a parent. I’ve been a parent for 19 years,
oddly enough, and part of being an integrated, full, mature masculine is
having paternal energy. It doesn’t mean that you actually have to spit out
babies, but it means that your approach to the world is a little bit nurturing
like a king. And I read about this is in the core, sort of book of this program,
it’s really looking at the world around you, creating order, creating a sense
of safety, looking out for people and being the bestower of value.
And one of the great trainings for me, I think with women, this may sound
odd, has been being a parent because with children it’s natural to look for the
wonderful things about them and encourage them to keep being that. “I
really like how you handled that situation in the playground, that was really
mature, that was really beautiful.”
And I realized just in talking about women, that’s kind of how I trained
myself to deal with my children. It’s to look for those, what we call in the
parenting business, “teaching opportunities,” right?

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Where something happens and you point out how great they were in that
situation and you kind of encourage that quality in them. So it’s really the
same with women and part of being a king, more or less, in your world, is to
bestow values, is to say, when you say, “I love the graciousness,” “I love
how graciously you handled that situation,” you’re saying my core value is
graciousness and I am giving you your certificate, more or less, by giving
credit based on your core values.

VIN
Whatever you point out, whatever you bring attention to, will amplify that
and create more of it. So a big mistake that guys make is that they usually
comment about things that they don’t like, “Oh, you’re such a bitch, why are
you so critical of me?” and that will make the woman become more critical.
What you really want to do is focus on the things that you want more of.
Just like you said, telling her she’s gracious, you’re very giving, you’re very
affectionate and that will create more of that.

ADAM
Absolutely. Well said. And by the way, guys – so I’m going to take a step
back – there’s a book called “The 5 Love Languages,” I’m sure you know it.
And in it, he talks about how – I think Chapman, is the name – he talks
about there are five fundamental categories of how people liked to be loved,
like how you know that you are loved, one of them is touch, one of them is
words. So, often people in a relationship will love the other person in the
way that they themselves like to be loved, but it doesn’t feel like love to the
other person.
So, I’m very careful in a relationship to let the other person know I really
love it when you do that, I like to be touched, I like her arms on me, I like
her hands on me. Even when we’re on public, we went to an event last night
and her hand is always on my shoulder, on my back, and I just keep telling
her how much that made me feel loved. So let your partner know what’s
important to you.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Okay, cool. Let’s move on to the next one, this is fun.
VIN
Okay. Number four is the Cinderella. The Cinderella is the type of girl that
loves to fall in love. She actually gets intimate with guys very quickly just
because to her she’s finding Mr. Right again and again and again.

ADAM
Wow!

VIN
But the thing is if you don’t quickly satisfy her needs, her idea of a
relationship, she’s going to run away and start looking for Mr. Right all over
again.

ADAM
She sounds dangerous.

VIN
Can be dangerous. But really to her, it’s a painful experience. It’s
frustrating to think she’s falling in love with a good guy and to get intimate
with him very quickly and then to be let down. So, constantly looking for
the next guy and she’s often a victim of repeated heartbreak.
So, the best thing a guy can do with this type of girl is to be very protective
of her, not coming off like a player, being direct, being honest, really
showing her that it’s you and her. There’s something we called the “us-
frame,” which is framing everything like it’s you and me, it’s us and then
there’s everything else, there’s the rest of the world. So what are we going
to do, what kind of adventures are we going to have in the future? Talking
about those things, finding out what excites her and becoming part of that.

ADAM
Right. Lance Mason has a great thing, he calls it the “judgment game,” it’s
called the “intuition game” where if you’re out with her, you look at another
couple and you say, and you observe what’s happening between them and
say, “Well, I think he’s much more into her than she is into to him.” And
she’ll say, “How do you know that?” He says, “Well, look how he’s leaning
in but she’s not. I don’t think she’s really into with him, what do you
think?” And then you look at another couple, suddenly you’re a team,
you’re giving the us experience.
VIN
Right, exactly.

ADAM
And the biggest mistake to make with this Cinderella kind of woman,
besides getting involved with her, from my point of view?

VIN
That could be the mistake that if you want to be in relationship with her, you
let her down, being a player, trying to keep it too casual because that’s going
to give her the signal that you want a relationship, she’s going to see that as
this guy wants a relationship with me, and so she’s going to be falling in
love – the biggest mistake is having a Cinderella as a casual sex partner.

ADAM
Beautiful. Okay. What’s the fifth category that you found?

VIN
Alright. This one we call Your Private Dancer. Your Private Dancer is the
type of girl that’s very picky, she talks to a lot of guys but she only gets
intimate with certain one, and she’s realistic, she knows the benefits of a
great relationship, she knows how a great relationship will strengthen each
other. So therefore, she preserves herself for that one guy and then will give
everything to that one guy.
So this actually makes a very good girlfriend, very loyal, when she meets a
guy like that she definitely opens up to him completely. They usually help
each other’s career; they usually help each reach goals. So this is a great girl
that would be a great girlfriend.

ADAM
She sounds like a good one. I like this one. The Cinderella scares me.
Anyone who has that dream of perfection scares me. I actually warn guys
on online dating to avoid anyone who uses knight in shining armor language
or Cinderella language or fairy tale language, you’re heading for trouble.

VIN
Right.
ADAM
Unrealistic. So I like this one, Your Private Dancer, so I’m putting a check
mark next to that one for me.

VIN
Okay.

ADAM
Let’s see who else I can have. Who’s next?

VIN
Okay. Seductress.

ADAM
Okay, check!

VIN
The Seductress is usually more experienced herself, often women will
become more like Seductress as they get older, but that’s not to say that you
can’t meet a young Seductress. But a Seductress is a type of woman that
goes after her goals, she’s very into her career, they’re kind of go-getters,
when she sees a guy that she likes she’s going to go and get him, they often
have a lot of experience, sexual experience, they can teach you about sex,
they can teach you about life.
And the key to getting a girl like this really is getting her to chase you.
Really because they’re such go-getters, if you can position yourself, if you
can hold back a little bit, use a lot of heavy intrigues, kind of use a lot of
sexual framing, where you’re the sexual prize, then you can get her actually
chasing you. And she’s the type of woman that’s not going to stop until she
gets you.

ADAM
Nice. And how do you position yourself that way? What do you do?

VIN
Well, it has a lot to do with rewarding her for sex. So, in other words,
instead of – one of the dynamics that I like to teach people is that you don’t
want to put work in order to earn sex with a woman, you never want to have
grounds of fancy dates, you never want to like drive really far, buy her all
kinds of gifts in the hopes of having sex with her. Because that’s going to
create like terrible dynamic where you have to keep spending more and
more every time you want to have sex with her.
So, on the contrary, what you can do with the Seductress and they respond
very well to this, is that you will get her to do things. First, doing little
things like having her pick up little things from the store, like a magazine,
having her cook for you, getting her to do little things for you and then
rewarding her with sex.

ADAM
So you’d shift the dynamic.

VIN
Exactly. Using your physical contact as a reward for her and what that will
do is that will get her chasing you.

ADAM
Very nice. We have a part of this program, is a fellow named Professor X,
who has the “Gentleman’s Guide to Dating Seriously Younger Women,” and
he has a beautiful way of shifting the dynamic of seduction thing. By having
her light the candles and having her choose the glasses and choosing the
alcohol from the closet, that kind of thing.

VIN
Oh, that’s great.

ADAM
Oh, he’s genius. He makes her active, even though it’s his apartment. It’s
all set but it’s like those, what you call those…

VIN
Getting her to choose, that’s really clever. Cool.

ADAM
He’s an evil genius. That’s why he’s part of this program. I’ve never met
anyone who has thought this out more deeply, honestly. But it’s like those
meals you get, what do they call, half-baked meals? From the supermarket,
that are almost done and you just put them in the final 15 minutes into the
oven? I can’t remember it off hand, but it’s kind of what he does. He has
everything set but then has her do the final actions to complete the seduction
such as this.
VIN
Wow, that’s great!

ADAM
Clever boy. Okay. So, that’s great, I like what you had said about that, get
her to do little things, pick up little things for you. Excellent. Who’s our
next type?

VIN
Number seven – we’re on number seven, right?

ADAM
Mm-hmm, I think so.

VIN
So, the Connoisseur. The Connoisseur is a very practical, very selective
woman. This type of girl will screen out players and so what you want to do
with this type of girl is don’t come on too hard, you want things long-term.
If she gets the hint that you’re only in it for the short-term then will not get
intimate with you. So she takes it long time but is worth the wait.
So this is a woman for a guy that’s career driven, looking for a girlfriend
where they can both really encourage each other’s lives together. She’s
usually very powerful, self-sufficient and she’s not going to be very
dependent on you. So I’m guessing that would be another one that you like.

ADAM
I’m checking off a bunch of these, I want one of each. It’s like a Chinese
menu.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Okay. So that’s excellent. Do we know how to treat her? Then, okay, so
she’s definitely not – you don’t play silly games with someone like this?

VIN
Yeah, don’t play games. Don’t come off like a player. Like a Playette, you
want to show that you got other options. But with the Connoisseur, you
want to almost show that you are investing a long-term potential with her –
that is, if you want her to be your girlfriend.

ADAM
Excellent. And by the way, let’s do number eight but I want to talk about,
I’m sure in your Pandora’s Box system, you have very clear indicators,
number one, of how you know which is which and, number two, how you
know which is better for you? But let’s get to that in a second, so what’s
the eighth one?

VIN
The eighth one is the Modern Woman. This is the type of girl that wants one
guy but she is going to date around. It’s very modern to date around and
date a lot of guys. She’s sexually liberated and she’s not the type of girl that
going to make a guy wait for six months for sex. She knows the value of
functional, realistic relationship and she will invest in a guy heavily if she
feels that they can contribute to each other’s lives.
So with this type of girl you want to actually show that you’re doing things
for her and you want to also show her that she can help you. You want to
show her that she’s actually valuable to you, whatever it is that you’re doing
in your career, show her that you value what she has to say, you value her
opinions and things like that, and she’ll definitely feel a very strong
connection when you do that.

ADAM
Excellent. I like her too. You’re making life difficult for me. So let’s me
ask you, kind of the obvious screaming question, in many ways, we’re
predetermined to be attracted to each other according to our types, so how
does – well, first of all, how should a guy, once he really understands these
eight types, how should he know which one is really best for him? Like,
where does he put his energy?

VIN
Well, I think the best answer is a lot of experimentation. I mean, looking at
these types, hearing about them, I can say, “Well, Your Private Dancer
sounds really good,” or, “The Cinderella sounds terrible.”
But really, you need the experience, you need to experience the different
types, and just knowing what you’ve dated in the past definitely doesn’t
work.
A lot of the idealist types, for these types of idealists, and what you
mentioned about the knight in shining armor and things like that, that can
cause a lot of problems for certain types of guys. I’m kind of like that too,
where I have that preference of, I do like the more realistic women more
than the idealist ones. But aside from experience, what sounds most
appealing to you.

ADAM
I guess you have to kind of experiment with different ones as your own
character comes into formation. By 35, 40, you should have some idea of
what really appeals to you.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
Now, have you broken down – it would be interesting, I don’t know if you
have yet – to break down, I’m sure there are eight parallel types for men.

VIN
Yeah, I think there are, although I haven’t really codified that yet.

ADAM
That would be interesting.

VIN
It would.

ADAM
Guys could look at themselves and say, “I wonder which my dominant is
and who I would pair off best with for the long-term?”

VIN
Exactly.

ADAM
Hah! That would be interesting. Maybe we’ll do a follow-up.

VIN
Yes, definitely a possibility.
ADAM
I think that would actually serve guys to help them figure out who they are
and see who would match.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
The thing is we’re often attracted to the same thing that we don’t have in our
lives. There’s theory called “imago therapy.” It’s kind of therapy, the basic
principle, if I remember is that we’re attracted to thing that we don’t have
and then we get into a relationship with the thing we don’t have and start
absorbing it.

VIN
Yeah.

ADAM
Yeah, then we resent the person.

VIN
Oh, wow.

ADAM
Or we don’t absorb it, we resent them for having them because we really
want it but then we discovered it’s not us.

VIN
What happens when we get it?

ADAM
Then you don’t need that person.

VIN
Then you don’t need them anymore?

ADAM
And you then get divorced and you’d look for the next thing that you need.
It’s kind of predatory. I mean, men and women do it, and I don’t think they
do it consciously, by the way.
VIN
Right. That’s only you can see that.

ADAM
Yeah, here’s a great example, somebody who’s like kind of maybe bookish
and serious and she meets a really fun guy and they get along really well,
they get married. She becomes really fun and then she looks to him, it’s
like, “I don’t need him for fun. I’m having fun. What I want is a guy who’s
an idealist, who’s doing something great in the world.” And then she leaves
him and goes to that guy.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
So, it happens all the time and, in fact, I think it happens to almost every
relationship as we start absorbing what the other person has or not there’s a
certain level of that resentment. So you have to be aware in a relationship.

VIN
Yeah.

ADAM
It’s not hopeless, but…

VIN
That theory does make it sound kind of hopeless.

ADAM
I know, right? Well, it’s true. Harvel Hendrix, by the way, I think he’s the
one who’s the expert, Harvel Hendrix.

VIN
Oh yeah.

ADAM
The key, of course, is to be aware of your dynamic as it’s changing and, of
course, it sounds dark if that fun guy, for example, doesn’t also develop. So
somebody becomes static in their life, chances are the person you’re with is
going to outgrow you.
VIN
So, always be changing.

ADAM
Yeah, constantly changing, constantly growing, and pushing your edge as a
man so a woman can admire you. And then once you stop pushing your
edges, women stop admiring you.

VIN
Right, that’s true.

ADAM
That’s true.

VIN
So, yeah, there are eight types of women and may seem overwhelming like,
“Oh, my God, I got to like figure out all eight types and stuff like that.” But
we’ve actually developed a system, and it’s actually online, a 9-question
quiz that you can take online to quickly figure out a woman’s type.
So basically you go to the site, answer just nine questions about a girl you
like and it’s going to tell you exactly what type she is. It tells you her sexual
preferences, what she’s attracted to a man, and also a few tips to be able to
get her.

ADAM
Where is that quiz?

VIN
Pandoraquiz.com

ADAM
Okay, cool. And then what happens if they take the quiz and if somebody
actually got your Pandora’s Box system, what else would they learn? Like,
you just run through the eight types, so what’s in this system and what kind
of information is there?

VIN
Well, there’s a whole bunch of background and how it was developed.
There’s also a full version of the quiz in there where you can type in some
stuff and it will you exactly what type of girl she is. It’s going to teach you
how to do mind reading, which is how to profile a woman very quickly, how
to tell what kind of type she is very quickly, and then there’s strategy,
advance strategies for all eight types.

ADAM
So, how to open a discussion and how to lead a discussion, how to touch
those…

VIN
Yeah, how do I know what she wants to talk about, how to touch her, how to
get her turned on? The types all very different in the best way of getting her
turned on quickly?
And then most importantly, how to form a relationship? That’s what you’re
going after.

ADAM
Oh, that, yes.

VIN
Yes.

ADAM
I’d looked at the system, you’ve done an amazing amount of work and I
think it’s really helpful for men to be paying attention to the difference, to
the uniqueness of women. On not only the types but, again, going back to
where we talked about before, find those little things to cherish, to cherish
her for who she is and just to take a huge step backward.
When you’ve dated a bunch, and I’ve dated a bunch, and you’ve been with
lots of different women, it’s very easy to wish that one woman had
everything.

VIN
Yeah.

ADAM
And just like, I’m sure, it’s easy for women to wish there’s one guy that had
all of it.

VIN
That’s like the biggest problem.
ADAM
Yes.

VIN
Sometimes I think that because of how much I’ve dated, it become very
difficult to be satisfied.

ADAM
Yes. We’re in the same boat. And there’s a book, in Economics called the
“Paradox of Choice” where choice actually seemed like a great thing but it
actually has some huge downside. And this is one of them.
So, the point I want make about that is, that if you’re going to choose a type
and you understand what her type is, you have to make, for relationship
purposes; you have to make the conscious decision to cherish the things
about her that’s within that type. And to let go of all those other things you
might have gotten with the other types and the make a conscious decision to
vocally cherish those things. You should ongoingly cherish those little
things about her, the behavioristic things, the tiny little touches, the little
expressions of love that she gives so that you can keep that relationship
deepening.
But once you understand these types, and I think it’s really essential to really
cherish her for being part of that type, as well as cherishing her unique
individual things.

VIN
Yeah. When I started these projects, going into these project, there was – I
don’t want to say, there was something missing in my relationships with
women – and by going through all these research and understanding that
everything that she does is really just her own survival mechanism, it’s her
own way of protecting herself, you start to really getting an appreciation,
you start to love them more for who they are and you start to empathize with
them, empathize with their challenges.
So it really changed me and changed my perspective on women and it’s
really made me a master of all female psychology and able to connect with
them a lot more deeply.

ADAM
It’s funny, I know you sell to men generally as a mind reaching, I mean up
front, but it’s really a route to compassion. But if you called it the Pandora
Box system a route to compassion, I think you’d have to go back to working
as a janitor.

VIN
It’s probably true.

ADAM
I think men actually want to be that man but they don’t necessarily buy,
invest in their own education to get there. I think they invest because they
want the secret sauce, and I think your system has the secret sauce, which is
the mind reading, but the delicious dessert is the development of compassion
of heart.

VIN
Right.

ADAM
So, I want to thank you, number one, for doing all that work because I
learned a lot. And also, I thank you for showing up and running us through
quickly to your system. There’s obviously a lot more there.
The quiz is at pandoraquiz.com?

VIN
Right.

ADAM
You named it Pandora before Avatar came up, I’m guessing.

VIN
Yeah, it’s been kind of Pandora’s Box for over a year.

ADAM
But the site is pandoraquiz.com

VIN
Pandoraquiz.

ADAM
I’m going to do the quiz right now. So you just go over take the quiz and
check out, put in details about a particular woman that you might like and
turning out more information. I’m sure there’s probably more information
on that page on how to get your system and learn more about it.

VIN
Yeah, the quiz is free. It’s completely free. It will give you information
about the girl for free, but if you do want to invest more and check out the
Pandora’s Box then you can do that too.

ADAM
Very cool. Okay, Vin, thank you so much for taking your time on a late
Friday afternoon. I really appreciate that.

VIN
Thanks a lot

ADAM
I’ll see you soon. I’ll be back in New York in a couple of weeks.

VIN
Alright, cool. Talk to you later.

ADAM
Have a great week, everybody.