Hi...can anyone tell me that why we are using synchronous motors in place of inductio...

Page 1 of 3

Account Type: Basic | Upgrade

Home Profile Contacts Groups Jobs Inbox Companies News More Group

RATS - Rotating And Turbomachinery Society

Discussions Members Promotions Jobs Search More...

Hi...can anyone tell me that why we are using synchronous motors in place of
induction motors for high rated reciprocating compressors?
9 months ago

Follow Lekh

Like Comment Follow Flag More

10 comments

Peter Berghs • For high power application the main benefits of SM's are more efficiency,
especially at at slow design speeds, and power factor benefits
9 months ago • Like 1

Follow Peter

Shane Harvey • When dealing with large power motors the efficiency gains of the
synchronous motor makes a lot of sense. 98%+ efficiency is common for synchronous
motors while induction machines are typically in the range of 94-96%

Follow Shane
2% on a 10MW machine @ 0.06$/kWh equates to $100,000 in a 24/7 x 350 day a year
operation. Typically if an induction machine is available it will have a capital advantage,
but that is quickly overshadowed by the operating costs.

Power factor as Peter mentions is also something to be considered, large induction

machines will be a large drag on the grids PF.
9 months ago • Like 1

Brad M. Cassolato, P.Eng. • Hello my name is Brad Cassolato. I have 40+ years
experience with compressors, synchronous motors, torsional vibrations, and so on. The
advantage of a synchronous motor is unity power factor which can be employed to correct
the grid PF. However the really big DISADVANTAGE is torsional vibrations. Torsional
Follow Brad M.
vibration eminating from a synchronous motor into the compressor must be studied
carefully. If you get the torsional analysis incorrect it can be a very bad situation. For
example, breaking a compressor rod or compressor shaft inside the packing or seal area
of a hydrogen machine can have very serious consequences. A toxic gas is even worse.
This applies to both centrigual and reciprocating machinery. Contact me if you wish to
discuss 403-475-2534. My distinguished colleague Bill Lockley is a motor expert. Thanks
for the question.
9 months ago • Unlike 2

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=3683137&type=member&item=626... 30/04/2012
Hi...can anyone tell me that why we are using synchronous motors in place of inductio... Page 2 of 3

Ramana B.V. • I agree the problem on torsional vibration at start up transients is a big
hidden danger and at site no means to measure makes the task of failure analysis a
nightmare. Though there is advantages as mentioned above, I will have reservation that
careful rotor dynamics to be evaluated.
Ramana 3 months ago • Like
Unfollow

Mario Forcinito • My advice to my clients is that on high power electric driven recips the
Torsional vibration analysis should be done as soon as possible once the motor is
selected because the results can impact the final design of the motor shaft.
Also a field validation of the of the TVA upon commissioning is additional re-assurance
Follow Mario
that the uncertainties inherent in the analysis are not going to be a factor.
3 months ago • Like 1

Ramana B.V. • Agree with Mario provided the remedial actions taken while procurement
to avoid Torsional resonance.
2 months ago • Like

Ramana
Unfollow

Sina Sanjari • Because of operating cost against investment at first.

2 months ago • Like

Follow Sina

Melvin Hakes • I have heard that a way to reduce the impact of harminics is to ensure
that the number of supports along the shaft of the motor is not a base factor of the
operating rpm or of the electrical frequency. Do any of you know how this is done? ie 4 is
a bad number because 1200, 1800, and 3600 rpm and 60 hz are all multiples of 4 and this
Follow Melvin
allows harmonic waveforms to setup between the support locations. Is this even true?
2 months ago • Like

Tim Shaw • It has been my experience that the choice between SM's and IM's, if based
purely on the plant power balance and other characteristics, are first the choice of the
EPC/End User. The criteria that is used to determine which to use is Size (less than
10,000 HP is general an induction motor due to cap ex, below 10K HP, the lag and lead is
Follow Tim
not as significant - if there are a significant numer of IM;s starting, stopping, and running
together then power correction becomes an issue), The other factors are , Efficiency,
Inrush, Capitol Cost, and needed Power Factor Correction through out the plant.

Also Local regulations can influence the selection if the facility does not generate their
own power, then the power company will dictate the characteristics of the motor(s) (ie
allowable max current, allowable lag or lead back to the grid, etc - regulations very from
power company to power company.

Basically there are many many factors that go into selecting am IM or SM. I haveseen an
LNG plant where they had many induction motors and generators and had to watch their
power balance and PF very carefully. We had sold them several trubo expander driven
generators, so the customer specified Syncronous generators in order to help correct the

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=3683137&type=member&item=626... 30/04/2012
Hi...can anyone tell me that why we are using synchronous motors in place of inductio... Page 3 of 3

power factor. The price for the syncronous generators was 4 x's that of an equivelant
induction generators. Switching to Syncronous also complicates the project greatly as
there needs to be a separate control panel for the sync of the rotor and windinds, a
separate panel for excitation, and yes again another panel for power correction that is
wired into the plant pwer correction system.

I hope that helps a little?

2 months ago • Like • Reply privately • Flag as inappropriate

Lekh Chhaya • Thanks all of you. It helped me a lot.

2 months ago • Like

Follow Lekh

Add a comment...

Send me an email for each new comment.

Help Center About Blog Careers Advertising Recruiting Solutions Tools Mobile Developers Publishe
LinkedIn Corporation © 2012 User Agreement Privacy Policy Copyright Policy Send Feedback

http://www.linkedin.com/groupItem?view=&gid=3683137&type=member&item=626... 30/04/2012