Back to top

Ricardo Re: Ketamine

Se nior Me m be r
ketamine for refractory headache
Reply #13 - Jul 16 th, 2011 at 9:05am

Offline
1961mom wrote on Jun 28th, 2011 at 6:45am:
Me too....keep posting please

“A hallucination is a
spe cie s of re ality.”
Unfortunately, the trail seems to run cold here. Can't find too much more info,
TKM although there is a lot of info on Ketamine for migraines. I'm gearing up for a
new neurologist and I'm going to be pushing hard to try this therapy.
Posts: 368 Incidentally I've found a lot of links for just Ketamine and pain therapy, and
Massachuse tts, USA
Ge nde r:
found info claiming that an infusion of magnesium and Ketamine is more
Mood: effective. Wouldn't be surprised if it worked better for clusters too...

Kyle--I'm lucky to be doing a bit of both!

"W ithout love , day to day, insanity is k ing"

Je rry Garcia

IP Logge d
Back to top

Kyle Re: Ketamine

Full Me m be r Reply #14 - Jul 27 th, 2011 at 4:29am

Offline
If you need to rid yourself of a few bottles, let me know.

Keep livin' the dream!

C luste rBuste rs!

Sadly, I was hired as a brewer at Alaskan Brewing Company 3 years ago but had
to decline the position after finding out that my wife got accepted to Dental
Posts: 181
Ge nde r:
School here in AZ. I was devastated
Mood:

open in browser PRO version Are you a developer? Try out the HTML to PDF API New hot app: Facebook Albums To PDF pdfcrowd.com
 Be e r judge , com pe titive e ate r, subm ission grapple r, and C H suffe re r

Multim e dia File Vie wing and C lick able Link s are available for R e giste re d Me m be rs only!! You ne e d to or

IP Logge d
Back to top

Ricardo Re: Ketamine

Se nior Me m be r Reply #15 - Aug 11 th, 2011 at 2:59pm

Offline Under Psiloscribe's awesome post Documents for Serious Psychonauts I found a
great article on Ketamine...

Multimedia File Viewing and Clickable Links are available for Registered Members
“A hallucination is a only!! You need to or
spe cie s of re ality.”
TKM
Although it does not at any time mention clusters or headaches at all, something
that really grabbed my attention is that it was written by R. Andrew Sewell. This
Posts: 368
Massachuse tts, USA is same guy that has written about clusters, psilocybin and LSD and who has
Ge nde r: worked with John Halpern regarding clusters and psychedelics. It would be
Mood:
amazing to be able to contact him and see if he had any thoughts on ketamine's
use for clusters. I bet he's a busy guy so it might not be a possibility....any
body got any idea on how to get in touch with him?

"W ithout love , day to day, insanity is k ing"

Je rry Garcia

IP Logge d
Back to top

FunGuy Re: Ketamine

YaBB A dministrator Reply #16 - Aug 11 th, 2011 at 5:24pm

Offline Yep, the same Dr. Andrew Sewell.

I've just a sent him a message.
open in browser PRO version Are you a developer? Try out the HTML to PDF API New hot app: Facebook Albums To PDF pdfcrowd.com
 m y Karm a ran ove r
FG
your
Dogm a

Posts: 339

"W he n I se e I am nothing, that is wisdom . W he n I se e I am e ve rything, that is love . My life is a m ove m e nt be twe e n
the se two."
- Nisargadatta

IP Logge d
Back to top

R. Andrew Sewell Re: Ketamine

MD Reply #17 - Aug 11 th, 2011 at 9:06pm
YaBB Ne wbie s
Hi Ricardo--
Offline

C luste rBuste rs! Yes, I am quite busy, but I'm always willing to help out the Clusterbusters. I
didn't mention cluster headache in the article because at the time, there was
Posts: 2 literally no information whatsoever on the effects of ketamine on cluster
headache. I was, however, about to join a ketamine research lab at Yale (the
same lab that discovered ketamine's rapid-antidepressant effects ten years ago)
so I thought I had better teach myself something about it.

open in browser PRO version
The question of whether ketamine works for cluster attacks is important not just
for you guys who are looking for some help with your attacks, but for us
researchers as well. Psilocybin can't be compared with placebo in a clinical trial,
because patient know in short order what they got. We have to use an "active
placebo" instead--something that causes an alteration in consciousness but no
clinical effect. Roland Griffiths at Johns Hopkins used methyphenidate (Ritalin)--
but he was studying mystical experiences, and Ritalin doesn't have a reputation
for causing mystical experiences. It does, however, abort cluster attacks, so that
was out. Ketamine was the next logical choice--the only question was whether or
Are you a developer? Try out the HTML to PDF API New hot app: Facebook Albums To PDF pdfcrowd.com

open in browser PRO version
was out. Ketamine was the next logical choice--the only question was whether or
not it affected cluster headache. There's a fair amount of information that it's
helpful for migraine--in low doses, too, less than the psychedelic dose, but that's
no guarantee that it's helpful for cluster headache, even though many migraine
hand-me-downs do help. So it was an open question.
In the last year or so, however, small studies have started to appear. I'll quote
from the March 2010 Headache Currents:
===============
Ketamine
Ketamine is a non-competitive N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonist
that has been used as a general anesthetic and analgesic for several decades.
Ketamine is thought to exert its analgesic effect via its NMDA receptor
antagonistic action, an action that also inhibits the induction and maintenance of
central sensitization. Its role in treating and preventing acute pain, such as
postoperative pain, is better established than its potential role in preventing and
treating chronic pain conditions. Nonetheless, ketamine has been studied for its
use as an analgesic in several chronic pain conditions, including post-herpetic
neuralgia, central dysesthesic pain after spinal cord injury, peripheral neuropathic
pain, fibromyalgia, phantom limb pain, temporomandibular joint pain, and
trigeminal neuralgia. In small numbers of patients, subanesthetic doses of
ketamine were previously shown to effectively abort migraine headaches and
migraine aura, prevent spontaneous migraine attacks, and prevent nitroglycerin-
induced headaches.
Ketamine for treating multiple types of headaches.
Krusz JC, Cagle J, Scott-Krusz VB.
The safety and efficacy of intravenous ketamine for the treatment of several
different refractory headache disorders were evaluated in this open-label
outpatient study of 247 patients. Subjects included 162 patients with refractory
migraine, 11 with cluster headaches, 4 with paroxysmal hemicrania, 39 with
Are you a developer? Try out the HTML to PDF API New hot app: Facebook Albums To PDF pdfcrowd.com
 chronic daily headaches (subtype not specified), and 31 with headaches (type not
specified) and facial pain (trigeminal neuralgia or temporomandibular
dysfunction). IV ketamine resulted in substantial benefits in all patient groups.
Among the refractory migraine group, 93% had greater than 50% reduction in
pain intensity. All cluster headache patients had complete resolution of their
ongoing cluster episodes (average of 6.4 days). Four of 4 paroxysmal hemicrania
patients had complete resolution of headaches (average of 7 days). Sixty-eight
percent of chronic daily headache patients and 80% of patients with headache
and facial pain were reported to have more than 50% improvement in their pain
patterns (exact definition of improvement not provided). Side effects of ketamine
infusion included a transient sense of calmness and lightheadedness,
experienced by 41% of patients. No patients fell asleep, became dysphoric, or
experienced hallucinations. Investigators concluded that IV ketamine is safe and
effective for the outpatient treatment of several refractory headache disorders.
======
Bummer, eh? Back to the drawing board.

--Andrew

IP Logge d
Back to top

R. Andrew Sewell Re: Ketamine

MD Reply #18 - Aug 12 th, 2011 at 9:24am
YaBB Ne wbie s
Looking at Dr. Krusz's web page, I realize--I've met this guy! I ran into him in
Offline
Los Angeles in 2008. He was white-haired, but very energetic and enthusiastic;
C luste rBuste rs! talked a lot about low-dose ketamine for migraines. I asked him had he tried
ketamine in any cluster patients, and at that time he had not.
Posts: 2

Dr. Krusz runs a headache clinic in Dallas, TX. I know for a fact that there are a
couple of Clusterbusters living in Dallas. Can't say who, because it's considered
Protected Health Information (PHI) but *koff koff* you know who you are. How
open in browser PRO version Are you a developer? Try out the HTML to PDF API New hot app: Facebook Albums To PDF pdfcrowd.com
 about a field trip to Dr. Krusz's ketamine clinic, guys? Send us a report.

--Andrew

IP Logge d
Back to top

Ricardo Re: Ketamine

Se nior Me m be r Reply #19 - Aug 12 th, 2011 at 9:48am

Offline Uh...Wow...Thank you FunGuy for passing that on, and an amazingly grateful
thank you to Dr. Sewell. Your research has been so unbelievably important for
us sufferers I can not begin to thank you enough. An especially big thank you for
taking the time to join up CB and join in on this conversation.
“A hallucination is a
spe cie s of re ality.” The only thing I don't understand is the "Bummer, eh? Back to the drawing
TKM
board." It seems all good to me, am I missing something?

Posts: 368
Massachuse tts, USA
My real goal with finding out if Ketamine will work for clusters is because then
Ge nde r: (correct me if I'm wrong) it could point to glutamate toxicity as a potential cause
Mood:
or side effect of the clusters. I have not been able to find any studies showing
glutamate levels of cerebral spinal fluid in cluster sufferers, although I have with
chronic daily headache and migraine. Ever hear of any? As much as I hate the
idea of a spinal tap I would be willing to be a guinea pig....Anybody else?

So...I'm gonna throw a bunch of stuff out here that I've had on my mind....Any
questions you have time to answer are appreciated. If it takes you months, or
even if you just don't have time to answer, I understand. And seeing as how the
highest education I've gotten is a high school diploma, no worries if your
response is "You have no clue what you're talking about..."

I've been really amazed at the info I've been pulling out of this article from the
Dana foundation entitled "Protecting the Brain from a glutamate storm"
open in browser PRO version Are you a developer? Try out the HTML to PDF API New hot app: Facebook Albums To PDF pdfcrowd.com