Welcome to class, guys.

This is Writing Science Fiction and Fantasy

2020 Brandon Sanderson lectures.

Thank you, guys, for coming.

You do not need to clap.

Let me start this class by giving you a little

history of why this class exists.

Way back when in the '80s, Orson Scott Card

was going to teach a creative writing class

on campus.

Everyone was really excited about it.

A bunch of people signed up for it.

Then for various reasons he was unable to

teach the class.

So a professor at BYU, who was a literature

professor who liked science fiction, started

teaching a class on how to write science fiction

and fantasy so that those people who had signed

up would still have a class.

It was popular.

People kept taking it.

It was very exciting for them to have a class

about sci fi/fantasy.

This class started in, like, '85 or something,

and kept going.

I was a student at BYU from '94 to 2000, and

I didn't end up taking the class until 2000.

For various reasons it didn't fit my schedule.

In 2000, David Wolverton, also known as Dave

Farland under his pen name, started teaching

the class.

Doc Smith, who had been the professor who

was teaching it, he had medical issues and

stepped down from it, and they wanted to get

a professional writer to teach it.

When I heard that there was an actual professional

writer teaching a class, I was really excited.

Like, the idea of being able to go and listen

to a pro in the field was really interesting

to me.

I didn't know the half of it.

That class was the single most valuable class

I took my entire career at BYU.

This is because, while my other professors

were really good about talking about things

like theme, and finding your inner writing

soul, and all this sort of stuff, they couldn't

really talk about how to build a compelling

character.

They couldn't talk about, here is how you

take a plot structure and you adapt it to

your own story in a way that is interesting,

compelling, and original.

They certainly couldn't talk about what to

do when someone actually offers you a contract.

None of this stuff could I get from most of

the professors.

Now, there are occasionally other professors

that teach who have experience.

I just hadn't been able to take their classes

yet.

I'm not saying that I'm the only one that

can give you this.

But I took that class and it changed everything

for me.

I had already written eight novels at that

point.

I knew how to put my proverbial shoulder to

the wheel and write stories, but I did not

know how to refine them, and I did not know

how to take them out and actually publish

them.

Dave taught me all of that.

Dave eventually retired from teaching and

moved off to do other works, and the class

was going to get cancelled.

Some of the professors I knew at the time

came to me and said, "Brandon, will you teach

it?"

At that point, I had sold a book, but had

not published the book, so I was very much

an unknown quantity.

But they're like, "We don't want the class

to be cancelled.

Will you take it over?"

That was 2004.

So I took it over and I've had the class ever

since.

My career since then has taken off, very fortunately.

Everything's gone very well.

But I haven't been willing to let go of this

one class, because I feel like this class

was-- if you can point to a single moment

in my career that was the most influential

in me actually getting published, it was probably

taking this class in 2000, 20 years ago now.

And so I thought it's a resource that I need

to make sure keeps happening.

So I try to format it in a way that it would

help me as a new writer taking the class.

That means we are focused on the nuts and

bolts of writing.

You can get, from other classes, great things

on how to kind of approach your theme and

things like that.

We're going to focus on plot, setting, character,

and business.

And we will have two weeks on each of those,

with some interstitials where I sometimes

bring in other writers to talk about things

that I'm a little weaker in.

Like Mary Robinette Kowal is going to be in

town and I've asked her if she'll come talk

to you about writing short fiction, and things

like that.

So I try to bring in some people who really

know what they're doing to talk about some

of the stuff that I'm not quite as knowledgeable

about.

The goal is that, like I said, we will use

a very nuts and bolts approach.

For the purpose of this class, I'm going to

pretend that you want to be a professional

writer in science fiction and fantasy within

the next 10 years.

You do not have to have that as your goal.

Let's make that very clear.

A lot of times in the arts, we, how shall

we say, we have this sense that is actually,

I think, sometimes detrimental.

And I can express this best by, I don't know

if any of you writers have had this, but you

tell your friends and your family, "I'm working

on a book."

And what do they immediately jump to?

"Is it published?

How much is they gonna pay you for it?"

Like, that is the first thing that people

jump to, unless they jump to, "Oh, you poor

soul.

You're never going to be employed."

I once had that actually after I got published.

It was really great.

It was one of those things you dream about.

Where you're like, "Oh, maybe someday I'll

be able to actually answer this."

And someone did.

I was at a party and they said, "What do you

do for a living?"

I said, "I'm a writer."

They said, "Oh, so you're unemployed."

I said, "I hit the New York Times list last

week."

It was great.

It does happen.

Anyway.

But you don't have to have, as your goal,

that you want to be a professional writer.

You can write because it's good for you, and

I really think it is.

In our society, if someone came to me in their

40s, like I am, and I'm like, "What do you

do?"

They're like, "Oh, I love to play basketball.

I go play every Wednesday."

I would not jump to, "When are you going to

play for the NBA?"

Probably not going to happen to a lot of 40

year olds who already aren't, like-- Let's

just say, Utah Valley 40-year-old guys are

not going off to the NBA.

But I would think, "That's great.

That's good for you."

Going and being active and having a hobby,

going and playing a sport, it's just really

good for you.

I sincerely believe that writing stories is

the same way, that simply learning to communicate

better, learning to take the stories in your

head and put them on the page in a way that

people will find engaging and will connect

to emotionally, this is just good for you.

So if you're in here because you're like,

"Hey, that sounds like fun," you are totally

welcome.

If you've never written anything in your life,

you are totally welcome.

If you are, like, thought you were signing

up for Chem 107 and you got here, and you're

like, "Oh, no.

I'm surrounded by nerds," you're welcome here.

Whatever it is you want to do.

If you don't even like sci fi/fantasy, if

you want to write literary fiction about boring

people going through boring problems, you're

totally welcome here.

Snide remarks notwithstanding.

No, really.

You are absolutely welcome to use this class

however it can help you to achieve your own

goals.

Oftentimes, I have people who just love to

game.

They are GMs.

They're like, "I want to build better worlds

for my players."

Perfectly valid reason to take this class.

I am going to pretend, during the hour and

15 minutes that I teach this every week, that

you want to be me in 10 years or less.

You want to be living, full time, off of your

writing, and being very successful at it.

I'm going to pretend that's the case.

Because then I can give you all the information

you need, and then you can take it and pick

out

the pieces that you want in order to make

your writing goals happen, whatever they are.

Okay?

I do want to give a shout out to the people

here who do want to be Brandon Sanderson,

or, you know, a better version of him.

You probably, I don't know if your life was

like mine.

You have probably been told many, many times,

"You can't do that."

Or, "Oh, um, that doesn't really happen to

people."

I grew up hearing that from people that I

loved and who were good intentioned.

They really were, and they did have good points.

My mother, whom I love, is an accountant.

When I said I want to be a writer, she's like,

"Hmm.

Maybe you should be a doctor, and then you

can write on the side, because all those doctors

go golfing all the time.

You could just go write stories."

This was not terrible advice.

But it does get a little disheartening when

everyone you tell you want to do this for

a living either says, "Oh, great.

Where's the money?"

Or, "Oh, you poor fool."

So I want to tell you something I learned

by taking this class.

Maybe one of the most important things was

just that Dave showed up and said, "Guess

what?

I'm a professional writer.

I was a BYU student," in '85, I think he was.

He took this class in '85 or '86.

"And now I'm a full-time, professional writer.

Him just saying that made me say, "Oh, wow.

It can happen."

And people say it's a one-in-a-million shot.

Well, I bet I could add up how many people

took that class.

There would be less than a million people,

and Dave made it.

When I took Dave's class in 2000, there were

20 people in the classroom.

Five of us went pro in one level or another.

Now, some of us went pro as editors.

Some of us went pro in that we published short

stories in professional fields, but never

earned a full-time living.

But I was in that class.

Dan Wells was in that class.

Peter Ahlstrom was in that class.

Peter went off and became an editor at Tokyopop,

and then became a professional editor for

them, and then I hired him.

Kristy was in that class.

She is now a professional, full-time freelance

editor.

So we have two editors and two writers I know

about who went 100% full time with their writing,

and there were several others of us who went

half time, which is where I get my fifth person.

If you look at that and you're like, "Wow.

Five out of 20, that's kind of a one in four

shot."

I don't know, we might be a deviant group.

But the chances are better than you think

they are.

The problem is, if you went to, let's say,

your biochemistry class orientation and they

said, "One in four of you is going to be able

to get a job in this field," you would probably

be skeptical.

Particularly if they said, which I kind of

have to say, judging by my former students,

it's really more like one in 20.

One in 20 of my students, ish, over the years

I've taught this, have gone full-time pro.

If you showed up to law school and they said,

"Yeah, we're going to let one in 20 of you

actually be an attorney," you'd be like, "Uh,

no!"

Well, what's the point then?

So the chances are against you, but they're

not one in a million.

And people that don't go pro that took that

class.

For instance, I have someone in my writing

group.

She never went pro.

She's writing professional quality work.

She is a fantastic writer.

But she likes to write a book every three

or four years and publishing them is not as

big a drive for her as simply telling her

stories, because she wants to tell her stories.

They're fantastic stories.

I'm convinced she will sell one one day, pretty

soon.

That is not a fail state.

You have to be willing to accept that that's

not a fail state.

At one point in my career, this was after

I'd taken the class but before I sold, I kind

of had a come to Jesus moment.

I guess I can say that at BYU, I probably

should have come to Jesus before then.

But a metaphorical come to Jesus moment, where

I'm like, "What am I doing?"

At that point, I'd written 12 novels, and

I had not sold any of them.

I kept sending them out to publishers, and

I kept getting two responses.

Number one, "Wow, these are long."

Number two, "Can't you just write more like

George Martin?"

No, he was the person that was selling right

then.

His are big, so I don't know why they were

complaining about the first one.

They were really looking for Joe Abercrombie.

They were like, "Where is Joe Abercrombie?

We know he's out there somewhere.

We want to publish him."

They wanted short, fast-paced, George R. Martin

style stuff.

They just were rejecting me right and left.

I was not making any headway at all.

I thought, "Huh.

Maybe they're right, all the people who say,

'We're really worried about you, Brandon.'"

My dad would call and be like, "Son, your

mother's really worried."

Yeah.

I kind of had to ask myself, I'm like, "What

does my success look like?

What am I willing to accept?"

I had to make the call that if I died, let's

be optimistic, in my 100s, right, with 150

unpublished manuscripts, was I okay with that?

Was I going to keep doing this, even if I

knew I would never get published?

I realized, yeah, I would.

I would keep going.

Maybe I wouldn't go at the rate I was going.

I would have to find a real job, for one thing.

Grad school could only delay for so long.

But I was going to keep writing.

I was going to keep telling my stories.

And I made the call that I was just going

to keep doing this, even if I eventually never

sold anything and never made a living.

And that took a big weight off of my shoulders,

where I realized—

It is important to be chasing publication.

I'm going to tell you guys how to do it.

But you should be focusing on the fact that

you want to tell these stories, that it's

good for you, that this is something you kind

of have to do.

And not in this sort of mystical way.

A lot of writing classes I took would be like,

you'll know if you have to be a writer.

And I hate that.

Because I feel like writing is good for you.

And I don't think there are people who are

predestined to be writers and people who aren't.

I do think luck plays a lot into whether you

make it full time.

But you can divorce the "I have to be professional

and make a full-time living" from the "I just

like telling stories."

And that person, I don't think, I think anyone

can decide that.

If you want to tell stories, tell stories.

Don't listen to people who say, "You must

be one of the chosen few."

Um, no.

Tell your stories.

Tell them the way you want to tell them.

At the same time, I have to warn you, you

might not make it.

You might spend the next 20 years of your

life writing books and never sell one.

It's totally possible.

In fact, it's more likely than you becoming

me.

That said, everyone I've known who stuck with

this 10 years or more, and has written the

books, none of them regret it.

Every one of them is like, "Yeah, that was

great.

I'm so happy I did it.

So happy I kept writing my stories.

I'm sad I didn't sell.

Yes, of course I am.

I want to sell a million copies, Brandon,

like you did.

But it's good for me.

I like it.

The stories are great.

I enjoy them.

And maybe someday I'll make it."

You can shoot for that at the lowest level

of success rate.

I have written my stories.

I've gotten better as a writer.

I'm proud of what I've written, and maybe

I'll make it someday still.

Keep that in mind.

All right.

That's my kind of introduction number one

to this.

The introduction number two is, can you really

teach people how to write?

That's a question, but it fits.

Can you really teach people how to write?

This is something I have to ask myself a lot,

looking back at my life, my career, taking

the class and things like that.

What is the role of an instructor?

Other than like, the most useful thing I think

I could probably do is get up here and say,

look, you've got to train yourself to write.

You've got to spend 10 years, write a bunch

of different books.

Work hard at it.

Write consistently.

And that's 90% of what you need to do.

That sentence right there will cover it.

Almost every question you'll have for me in

this class, and I'll let you ask questions

about what do I do, most of them will come

down to try a few things, practice some more,

see if you get better, if you don't try something

else.

That's most writing advice.

So why am I here standing on a stage?

In fact, it gets even kind of a little bit

worse than that.

Because writers will give you contradictory

advice all the time.

You guys had this?

Some of you are nodding.

Go read a how-to-write book from a famous

writer like, Stephen King's On Writing is

a fantastic writing book.

You will read this, and he will talk about

what you do to become a writer.

You'll be like, wow, I guess I better do that.

And then you'll read a different book from

someone else and they'll be like, "Do it this

way," and it's completely different.

I often use an example of this being discovery

writing versus outline writing.

Writers tend to fall into two general camps,

and really it's a spectrum that you fall along

somewhere.

The two general camps tend to be what, George

Martin uses the term gardener, a discovery

writer.

I really like the term gardener.

What a gardener does, is a gardener starts

a story with an interesting premise or some

interesting characters, and they just explore

their story as they start writing, and then

they just kind of go wherever their winds

take them.

George Martin is a gardener, pretty famously.

Stephen King is probably the most famous gardener

out there.

They do not use an outline.

For a lot of gardeners, if you have an outline,

and you work really a lot on your outline,

what happens is, your brain feels like you've

already written the story.

You lose all excitement for working on the

story, and you get bored of it as soon as

you start.

Now, on the other side are what George calls

architects, another term I really like.

An architect is someone who writes way better

if they have a structure to hang their story

on.
Architects tend to work better in this way

because what they can do is they can outline

a whole bunch of stuff up front, and then

when they're working on a given chapter, they

don't have to worry about all the other stuff

because they've already fixed that.

They can focus in on this one chapter and

do this one chapter the way that they want

to.

The secret is, even the architects are discovery

writing.

They're just doing it in smaller jumps.

The architect is leaping between two bullet

points rather than into the complete unknown.

But architects tend to hate revision.

Architects tend to do way better with a structured

outline.

But these two are kind of opposites at their

extremes.

Doesn't mean you can't be a hybrid.

But if you're the type of person that if making

an outline ruins the process for you and destroys

your ability to keep writing, then you can't

follow the advice that I have read multiple

times from authors that say you must have

an outline.

So what do you do?

Well, you have to learn when to ignore me.

Me representing all the people giving you

advice about your writing.

You have to understand that writing is really

individual, and there is no right way to write

a book.

There can be a lot of wrong ways for you,

and there can be multiple right ways for you.

That's part of the fun of writing.

In fact, most writers use a different combination

of discovery writing and outline writer tactics,

depending on the book that they're writing

at the moment.

And they tend to evolve and change the more

that they come to understand their own process

and the longer they go in their career.

Really, this whole outline writer versus discovery

writing thing is a false dichotomy, but it's

a model we use to discuss how a lot of writers

work and what might help you.

You have to learn that whenever someone gives

you writing advice, they are saying, for me,

this is what works.

For me, I have found this experience makes

me write stories that I like.

You have to be willing to say, all right,

maybe I'll try that.

I'll give it a go and see what happens.

And treat these things all like tools in your

toolbox to help you write better stories.

And if it doesn't work, you've got to be willing

to throw it away.
Now, maybe not throw it all the way away.

Maybe put it in that toolbox and be ready

to grab it later on when you change in your

career.

But you have to be willing to understand that

all of these writing modes, these models,

these things, this is just all stuff that

we come up with to try to explain what we're

doing and to help us with problems.

There's another thing I'd like you to understand.

A lot of the stuff that I'll talk about in

this class is the sort of thing that writers,

professional writers, start doing by instinct,

rather than stuff that we always follow exactly

to the T every time.

What do I mean by this?

Let me explain using a Magic: The Gathering

metaphor.

We are in a sci-fi writing class, I once heard

a professional Magic: The Gathering player,

which is my nerd obsession, talk about how

they got better as a Magic player.

What they said is, when they first started

playing, there were so many little complex

minutia about certain things in the game that

they had to focus on those little things just

to make sure that they weren't making mistakes.

The further they got playing, the more they

realized that by focusing on things they'd

started to do those things by instinct, and

that they then had brain space to start focusing

on higher level, and higher level, and different

tactics in playing the game.

What really happened as someone became professional

as a Magic player was that they moved through

doing more and more by instinct and having

more and more space in their brain to focus

on different parts of playing the game.

I think this absolutely is true for writing

as well.

I feel that the more I have written, the more

by instinct I have been able to do simple

things, such as cut the passive voice from

my writing while I'm just writing a rough

draft.

The more I've been able to, by instinct, understand

the pacing in this chapter is too slow.

I need to speed it up, either by trimming

up here, or by making this next part come

faster, or by putting something in the middle

that gives us some sense of progress.

You start doing these things by instinct,

and what you can start doing is then thinking

about bigger and bigger and more important,

no, more important's the wrong term, but different

things to improve your writing.

What you're going to be doing as a writer

is, you are going to, by practicing, you are

going to start basically sticking stuff into

your instinct.

Your long-term memory rather than your RAM?

I don't know.

Computer people, help me out.

You put this in your BIOS?

I don't know.

I don't know computers.

Don't worry about it.

They get it.

They get it.

But you're going to be able to focus on different

things as you start writing, and other things

will come to you by instinct.

This is why the single best thing you can

do to be a better writer is to make good habits

for writing consistently.

Now, put an asterisk on that, because what

does writing consistently mean?

It's going to mean a different thing for almost

every person in this class, like I talked

about earlier.

For some writers, writing consistently means

working on their outline every day for eight

months, and then spending four months working

12-hour days on their book, completely binge-writing

it and being done.

I know people that that is their way of working,

and every year consistently that's what they

do.
They write their book in four months after

spending eight months fiddling with an outline.

I know other people who are more like myself,

this is what I do, who get up and they write

2,000-3,000 words every day.

I do it in two 4-hour sessions every day,

very consistently.

Build a castle one brick at a time.

Just keep on going.

That is my method.

For other people who are working day jobs,

they're like, that's a luxury, Brandon.

I don't get to do that.

What I get to do is I get to spend my lunch

hour working on whatever outline I'm going

to write for that day, and then when I get

home I have one hour after the kids go to

bed that I can work on my story.

Other people will be like, I can't even do

that.

Four hours on a Saturday, that's my best I

can manage, four hours a week.

This is going to be different for each of

you.

But the goal is consistency.

Your average writer writes somewhere between

300 and 700 words an hour when they are working

on new prose.

If you fall a little under or a little above

this, no problem.
Everybody's different.

But your average writer's going to be in there

somewhere, with 500 words kind of being what

a lot of people can do in an hour's work.

That goes way up, by the way, if you spend

a whole week thinking about what this awesome

scene you're going to write is, and then you

only get one hour to write it, and you zip

out 1,500 or 2,000 words for that one hour.

I've had times in my life where that's where

I had to be.

But on average, 500 words an hour.

That means that if you can find four hours

a week, you can write 2,000 words.

Your average novel is around 100,000 words.

That's actually a little long for your average

novel.

Which means that one year, you're going to

write a book if you can only find four hours

a week, one 4-hour session on a Saturday.

If you can't find that, but you can get two

hours a week, you can write a book in two

years.

Two years is a perfectly acceptable pace for

doing that.

Consistency is going to trump binge writing

a lot of the time.

But, asterisk, if you are naturally a binge

writer, then you should learn to work with

that, and try something else because it might

be easier another way, but if it doesn't,

then embrace this is how you write, and figure

out a way to make your schedule work for that.

It works really well for teachers, because

a lot of writing-- Writing is one of these

jobs that's very hard to do if you have another

job that takes a lot of your brain space.

A lot of people ask, what are the perfect

jobs to get while I'm waiting to be a writer?

I say, I don't know what the perfect job is

for you, but I can name a couple of them you

probably don't want to do.

One is be a computer programmer.

I took one computer programming class in college

at BYU 20-something years ago, and it was

really instructive, in that it was the only

class that I would do my homework for, and

then I would sit down to write and feel like

I couldn't write because I'd already spent

all this time and energy on writing code,

and it felt like the same sort of thing.

Your mileage may vary.

It may be very different for you.

You might be like, you know what?

I'm naturally a better writer because I write

code.

For me, writing code exhausted me for writing

stories.

Being a teacher is another one I hear from

a lot of people, that because being a teacher

is one of those jobs you don't leave when

you leave school, that it's always work, thinking

about the students, thinking about papers.

This can make it really hard to be a writer.

What tends to be really good is, like, laying

bricks.

No one tells you this in college.

They're like, oh, yeah, go get an English

degree and get an English major job, when

really, going and laying bricks tends to be

a really good job for a writer, because you

can put on headphones, listen to music, and

go through your plot outline or what you're

going to write that day, and then go home

and be relaxed and sit in a chair and write

it.

Menial labor tends to actually be really great

for writers, for that reason.

Kind of bizarre and inverse of what you would

think.

Most of us don't have that luxury, the luxury

of becoming a brick layer.

Maybe I shouldn't phrase it that way.

But most of us in a college setting need to

major in something that then is going to lead

to some sort of career similar to what they're

majoring in, and I get that.

Most English majors are going to go get a

tech writing job, or a copy editing job, or

something completely unrelated to English

because it's one of those generic degrees.

But I had a lot of friends who became tech

writers, and they still were able to write

their stories.

So it's not like it's going to ruin you.

If you're like, "I'm 3-1/2 years into a computer

science degree, Brandon," totally can work.

I have code monkey friends who write books.

I'm just saying, it's going to vary for each

person.

But this is what I found.

I worked a graveyard shift at a hotel.

I wrote from 11:00 PM until 5:00 AM every

day, and that's how I wrote books when I was

going to school full time and working full

time.

I had quite the luxury in that.

And you wouldn't think a minimum-wage job

is a luxury.

But having the privilege that I could just

get a minimum-wage job, and I didn't have

to worry about my finances so that was okay,

I was really lucky and fortunate that I was

in a position where I could work for $6 an

hour.

That was enough to cover all my expenses and

I could write books at work.

Most people can't do that.

You can't just go give up your entire social

life, swap your sleep schedule, and work a

minimum-wage job in order to become a writer.

Worked for me.

But maybe do as I say, not as I did.

In this case, where are we going with this?

You're going to have to figure out what works

for you.

But if you can be consistent, if you can learn

how to do that, then you can make writing

a professional endeavor to you, even if you

aren't intending to go pro, or if you never

do go pro.

Let's take a moment and just talk a little

bit about, this whole day is just going to

be orientation stuff.

We'll talk about random things like this.

I'll probably dig into the whole discovery

writing versus outline writer a little bit

more, so that you understand kind of how the

class is going to go.

But before that, let's talk a little bit about

being a writer and having a real life.

I think it's important to have a real life.

We presume that we're going to be writing

about people's lives and telling stories about

people's experiences.

And if we don't actually live our own lives,

that's going to be much harder.

I talk about this because the first day of

class 20 years ago when Dave taught this class,

one of the things he said that stuck with

me all this time, is he said, "I have a lot

of friends who say, oh, you shouldn't get

married.

You shouldn't have a family.

That will distract you from your calling as

a writer."

I haven't had that told to me a lot.

I maybe move in different circles, but I have

heard it happening.

Dave said, "I have found that having a family

has just given me way more to write about

than if I hadn't."

But there are some things I want to talk about

with this, to kind of help you guys as writers

understand this.

One of the biggest division points I've found

in relationships among my writer friends,

and this happens kind of unexpectedly, is

that the more consumed you become with your

writing, the more other people in your life

might feel like they are being left out of

something that is all-consuming and passionate

for you.

This is a real issue, particularly with me

up here saying you ideally want to try to

write every day for an hour or two.

Ideally, if you want to be doing this professionally

in 10 years, you want to jump start that by

writing two hours every day for the next 10

years.

Finding two extra hours every day can be rough,

particularly if you have any kind of social

life.

Not everyone can be like me, working a graveyard

shift and having no social life.

What happens is, with a lot of my friends,

and this actually, I notice this.

Let me tell you it through eyes of my wife.

Emily and I got married in 2006.

So she didn't have to suffer through all of

the working a graveyard shift stuff.

But she also didn't have to deal with Brandon

the superstar.

She could just meet Brandon the wannabe new

writer.

Emily and I, she came from the English major

world.

She was an English teacher, and I was a writer,

and a sometimes professor at BYU.

And so we were quite the good match, and we

had a lot of interests in common.

We get along really well.

But I can still remember one time when I went

out to dinner with Brandon Mull and Shannon

Hale, and we were all out at dinner together.

We were all chatting, and it was like this

wonderful dinner.

Connecting really well with these other authors.

It was one of the early ones before I knew

Mull really well, and it was really fun to

get to know him, this person that people kept

bringing me his books on accident to sign.

We both were like, when a kid does that we're

like, uh, we should probably just sign it

anyway.

The poor kid would be like, yeah, Mull, M-U-L-L.

We don't do that.

We usually sign each other’s books and be

like, "I'm the wrong Brandon, but I'm still

going to sign your book because you waited

all this time."

By the way, okay, you get lots of asides in

this class.

I thought I was, like, when I grew up in Nebraska,

I was the only Brandon, like, in my school.

It was a really original, interesting name.

I'm like, my parents came up with this great,

original, interesting name.

And then I moved to Utah to go to BYU and

there were five in my freshman dorm.

And then I realized, it's a Mormon name.

Who would have thought?

It's not in any of the scriptures, but it

totally is a Mormon name.

There's a ton.

Brandon Flowers.
Brandon Mull.

Brandon Sanderson.

There's a lot of Brandons out there with an

LDS background.

Who knew?

But anyway, I'm out to dinner with Mull, and

with Shannon, and we're chatting, and it's

really great.

We're sharing ideas about our writing and

stuff like that.

It was at, by the way, Mama Chus.

You guys like Mama Chus?

Thumbs up.

After the dinner, I turned to Emily and said,

"Wasn't that the best dinner ever?"

She was like, "You didn't look at me one time

the entire dinner.

I just sat there and felt invisible."

Yeah.

And you're like, oh-h-h-h.

Early in our marriage.

I'm better now.

I'm way better now.

But this is a real thing that I've come to

find happens, that because the writers kind

of get into their worlds, and they're doing

this thing that is, like, really cool.

Writing is really cool.

It's like this-- I don't like to get too mystical

about it, but you've got a blank page and

you make something out of that.

And it's like, what's in your brain, and someone

else reads it, and they imagine something

pretty similar to that.

It's like you can write things and people

across the world from completely different

backgrounds can imagine this thing that you've

written, and you've got a connection with

someone that is completely different from

you, that you've never met.

It's really cool.

It's really this purely creative thing, where

you're taking nothing and making something

from it.

I love it.

But you can get so invested in that that the

people in your lives feel really left out.

So I'm going to give you this warning at the

beginning of the class.

I'm going to, as a writer, push you to write

a lot.

But I'm going to suggest that you also learn

to balance your life.

Because it's very easy to burn out as a writer.

It's very easy to because so consumed by this

that it destroys aspects of your life.

The thing that I've done, this is, again,

just one of these tools to try, is that I

started realizing that when I was with my

family, I needed to be with my family.

This was a hard transition for me, because

I got married in my 30s.

I had spent a lot of time learning to be a

writer, and one of the things you learn to

do as a writer, particularly one who has to

work full time and go to school full time,

is that you start to look for those moments

when no one is asking you to do anything,

and you use those to work on your stories.

You carry around a notebook.

You carry around your phone.

Writers don't get bored, which is great.

People are like, "Oh, you were left alone,

by yourself, waiting for me to show up for

a half hour.

I'm so sorry."

And you're like, "It was the only half hour

that no one bugged me all day.

I got so much work done, even though it was

all up here."

I started to use driving time.

It's great for this.

Something about moving while you're going

and thinking, is just really handy for coming

up with ideas.

This is why, by the way, Kevin J. Anderson,

aside, he goes on hikes and dictates all his

books on hikes.
He uses completely dictation software so he

can be moving when he's writing.

I know other people who've tried it and it

actually works for them.

It's never worked for me, because I don't

think with spoken word the same way I do on

the page.

But I might be able to train myself if I really

wanted to.

But anyway, I was using all these moments.

And so when I was driving somewhere, my wife

would say, "I know when you're thinking about

a story, because if I say something you jolt,

and you look at me like, 'What have you just

done?

I was in Roshar and it was cool.'"

Now I'm in a minivan.

Where is my Spren?

I started to realize; this could take over

everything.

And if instead I started putting boundaries

in place to contain the imagination, and then

be with my family when I was supposed to be

with my family, my life would be better.

So at 5:30, I am not allowed to work on books

from 5:30 until 9:00.

Doesn't matter if I have free time.

Doesn't matter if the family is away or something

like that.

I have this barrier in place, and it has been

so good for my life.

Because it's also good to kind of step out

into the real world.

People accuse us of living in fantasy worlds.

They don't understand.

We're not living in fantasy worlds.

We don't lose track of the real world.

It's not like we are all these people who

are schizophrenic and can't tell the difference

between hallucinations and reality.

That is no what it is.

People always say that, and it always bugs

me, because that's not what it is.

I am constructing something.

I'm building something.

It's really engaging.

It's really fulfilling.

But it's not like I'm forgetting the world

I live in, and things like that.

Even if, when you interrupt me, I look like

I'm really annoyed, because I kind of am really

annoyed, because I was making a really cool

connection between two different parts of

my story.

That barrier lets me step out, live my life

as it should be lived, interacting with other

people, and it makes me that much more refreshed

when I go back to writing.

This is why I do two sessions, by the way.

Partially because I don't want to get up in

the morning, because I'm a writer.

I didn't do this job to get up at 8:00 AM.

So I get up at noon.

People are always asking me about it and they're

like, "Oh, you learned that while you were

working the graveyard shift."

I'm like, "That's right.

I did all those years at the graveyard shift

and it has changed me, and now I have to suffer

and live with this whole off schedule."

No, no.

I was like this before the graveyard shift.

I've always wanted, I like being up at night.

People leave me alone.

So doing two sessions, for me, from about

1:00 until 5:00, and then about 10:00 until

2:00 is great for my writing, because I have

that time in between that just refreshes and

relaxes me.

I get to go do something else.

And then when I sit back down to write, I'm

excited to do it again for another four-hour

session.

I recommend finding, and at least understanding,

what this can do to the relationships in your

life, and taking some steps, they don't have

to be the steps I took, to make sure that

it doesn't consume you to the point that it

ruins your ability to have good relationships.

On the flip side, here are some tips you can

give to a spouse or roommates, that you can

talk about with them, to help them understand.

Because one thing that people don't generally

understand about most writers, again, writers

are different, so everyone's different, most

writers, takes us a little time to get into

it.

I don't know if this is the case for you.

But you sit down with your laptop, and if

you were to time yourself, for me that first

hour, that's not a 500-word-an-hour hour.

That's like a 200 words.

And then that third hour is like 1,000 words

in an hour.

And then, like the fourth hour I'm starting

to run out of steam, and it's like an average

one, and the one in between is like an average

one.

So if I get interrupted for 15 minutes, after

I've spent 45 minutes, like, really getting

it going, what it does is it can reset me

back to the first hour, the 200-word thing.

What my wife didn't understand, and I didn't

even understand at the time, is that a 5 to

15-minute interruption can mean more like

a 45-minute delay in me getting to that zone

where the writing's really working for me.

Learning that, if this is the case for you,

and being able to explain this block of time,

whatever it is, is so precious, because it's

only at the middle where it will really start

coming and working for me.

If you can get your friends and family to

be the guardians of that time, so that they

have a part in it, so you're like, "These

two hours, make sure no one interrupts me,

and then I will be with you after I have done

those two hours, because I will be so much

more relaxed that I've gotten my writing done."

My wife has learned this.

She's like, "Wow, if he gets his writing done,

everything is great.

But if he doesn't get his writing done multiple

days in a row, he starts to get really anxious."

And she will tell people, "Brandon hasn't

been able to write in a couple of days.

Give him some space."

This is why tours can be miserable in part.

But giving her that sort of connection to

the writing, letting her in to the brainstorming,

when I talk about, "Oh, I made this cool connection.

Isn't this cool?" has been really helpful

for our relationship, and for my career in

multiple ways.

She's really good at guarding my time.

She makes sure that I don't get interrupted.

In exchange, when, not only-- Best-selling

books are really good for marriages, because

you don't have to worry when the money is

coming in.

If books aren't selling, it's bad for marriages,

because it can be all the stress.

So there is that.

But there's also the idea that we're together

on this, and we have a shared goal and a shared

focus.

Let me ask, before I do some stuff on the

board, just about discovery writing.

It's not actually stuff on the board.

You'll understand in a minute.

Any questions about what I've talked about

here, about writing life, about becoming professional,

and how you're treating this?

Q: How do you overcome the sense of despair

that you're not going to be able to make it?

How do I overcome the sense of despair that

you're not going to be able to make it?

This comes from a couple of places for me,

or did back in the days.

Because I spent a lot of time not making it

until I did.

One was, Pandora's box, I still had hope.

It could always happen.

There are a lot of writers who toiled in obscurity

for a long time, and then eventually sell.

Don't let anyone tell you that if you haven't

made it in 10 years that you just will never

make it.

Go ask George R. Martin what people said to

him when he was a mid-lister for 30 years

and barely was able to get people to read

his books, for a long time, writing great

books, and then suddenly he became the best-selling

fantasy author in the world.

Yeah, there is that hope.

You can always still make it.

Another is, for me, learning to focus on,

am I satisfied with the writing?

Am I proud of what I've done?

And making sure that I am.

Because it's a real achievement to finish

things.

I meet a lot of people who want to be writers.

This class excluded, you want to bet what

percentage of them actually finish a novel?

Not very many.

If you finish a novel, you are in a more select

crowd than the select crowd between people

who have finished a novel and gotten published.

The cutoff percentage, the fall-off percentage

of people who never finish a novel is much

larger than the fall-off between those who

finish a novel and get published.

If you finish a novel, you are already in

a more select crowd, the most select crowd

you could probably be in as a writer, if you're

looking at pure divisions of numbers, pure

drop-offs between achieving certain goals.

Be proud of the fact that you're finishing

things.

If you're not, we're going to work in this

class on learning how to.

Okay?

Because that you have power over.

Focus on what you have power over.

You have power over whether you finish your

stories.

You have power over whether you're consistent.

You have power over whether you are excited

and interested in the stories you're creating.

You do not have as much power over whether

you're going to make it or not.

That helped me a great deal.

Another thing is to be exploring other options.

Self-publishing is a real thing.

It's possible that you are totally of professional

quality in your writing and you just haven't

found an editor who's willing to give the

books a chance, and you belong in self-publishing

as an indie author.

It's also possible that you write things that

are so esoteric that you have a small potential

fan base, but you can be satisfied that you

are writing great books for them, and you

are publishing the books for them, and you

find a job adjacent to being a novelist that

is still really fulfilling to you.

I mean, there are a lot of things to do, and

none of them are things, like, none of them

are going to take away that despair entirely.

Because there's a part of you that's like,

"I should be selling these books.

These are really good books."

Or, depending on your psychology, "My books

are terrible.

I am terrible.

What am I doing?"

That's equally likely.

That one's more pernicious.

Let's point that out.

It is probably wrong.

But that's what I did.

Ask other people.

Ask other writers.

Make sure you're part of the community, and

things like that, because that can help.

I got published because Dan Wells met an editor

at a convention.

The editor turned out to be a really good

match for me and an only mediocre match for

Dan, and Dan introduced me to the editor,

and the editor bought my book.

Having connections with other writers can

be really handy.

What other questions do you guys got?

Anything you want to throw at me?

Yeah, over here.

Q: How do you get into that writing community?

How do you get into that writing community?

Well, you are in the right place.

Because after I talk about this next little

thing for just a bit, we're going to split

into writing groups, and that's part of this

class.

We're going to talk about how to do writing

groups and stuff like that.

Actually, you know what?

We've only got 15 minutes left.

Let's move on to that portion.

I'll talk more about discovery writers and

things another day.

Let's talk about writing groups.

For this class, I am going to require the

people who are in the 15-person session, you

know who you are, you've already applied and

gotten in, we will go and chat in private

after this.

That's the class I go to after this.

For those who don't know, there's a 1 hour

15-minute lecture, and then I take 15 writers

who have applied ahead of time and who have

gotten in.

They're chosen by Karen, my continuity editor,

because I don't have time to do it anymore,

from the applications.

And then we do a writing group.

We do a workshop.

Taking this class gives you a leg up to where

you want to apply to that one.

I will warn you, there's a lot more required

of that class than this one.

This one you show up, I give you an A. That

one, you're going to have to write a bunch.

That's like, you pretend for a semester you're

a professional writer, and you're writing

as much as that is, and you have to learn

to juggle that with all the other things in

your life, and it's training for that.

That class, I mean, I require 30,000 words,

is what I think we came up with.

35,000.

35,000 words in a semester.

None of your other writing classes will ever

require that much.

I remember when I took a 518 class at BYU

and they're like, "You're going to have to

submit twice, and both submissions have to

be 2,000 words."

Half the class was like, "Oh, no!

How will I have that ready?"

I'm like, "Seriously?

That's an afternoon."

So 35K.

I'm going to require them to be in a writing

group.
The rest of you, I will not require to be

in a writing group.

But I will explain how you do writing groups,

and I will give you the opportunity to split

into writing groups to get practice.

Now, here's the thing.

Writing groups are also a tool that work for

some people and not other ones.

Part of the reason I force the class to do

it, the 15-person class, is I want them to

give it a good, pun intended, college try

at having a writing group.

Because if a writing group works, it is one

of the most useful tools for you in your writing

career.

I am still in a writing group with the people

I formed a writing group from in this class

20 years ago.

Okay?

Dan's not in it anymore because he moved to

North Salt Lake and he doesn't want to drive.

But the other people are still in the group

with me, and they are the most useful group

of people for bouncing ideas against, and

things like that, that I have ever had.

When Dan was in the group, he got me published.

Peter's in the group.

Peter went off and became a professional editor,

and then I finally hired him away when I needed

an editorial director at my company.

He is just invaluable.

So meeting these people in this class was,

they were all in the class with me, and they're

all still together, was super, super relevant.

But let me give you the dark side of writing

groups.

Okay?

Dark side of writing groups.

One really dark side of writing groups is,

particularly newer writers, don't know how

to workshop.

And one of the things they'll try to do is

they'll try to make your story into the story

they would write, instead of a better version

of the story you want to write.

And that is the single worst thing that can

happen in feedback, is someone who is not

appreciating the story you want to make, and

they want to turn it into something else.

New workshoppers are really bad at doing this.

In other words, they're really good at doing

a bad thing, which is trying-- And they're

doing it from the goodness of their heart.

They want you to be a better writer.

They want to help you.

The only way they know is to tell you how

they would do it, which can be completely

wrong for your story.

This is extra dangerous if you are by nature

more of a discovery writing.

If you don't think about your story ahead

of time, if you're not working from an outline,

someone can come to you and say, "Man, it'd

be so much better if you did this."

And you're like, "My story needs to have that.

It was a romance, but now it needs a mystery."

And the next week someone says, "Oh, you know,

if I were doing this, I'd make sure there

were vampires."

You're like, " Romances have vampires these

days.

I'd better write vampires into it.

I mean, it was completely not a vampire story.

It was a Regency, but now it's got vampires."

And someone else is like, "Oh, I don't really

like stories with female protagonists."

And like, "Oh!

I'll change the gender so that everyone--"

You can just go completely spiral out of control

with people giving you feedback and you taking

it too sincerely.

Now, the good side of writing groups.

The good side of writing groups is they can

be a really great support structure.

Before you get published, having a goal and

a deadline for submitting is really helpful.

And it's okay to have to have a deadline in

order to submit.
We all have different psychology.

Some of us need a deadline, and so you can

create one for yourself.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Having a deadline, having a support group

of people who are going through the same things

you're going through, also of people who are

likely to give you good feedback.

A writing group that has been working with

you for a while are the types of people who

will learn, hopefully, your writing style,

learn to like what you're doing, and they

will be much better at giving you advice on

making the story the way you want to make

it, after they get to know you, and things

like that.

You can cultivate a group who eventually will

give you good feedback, even though their

feedback at the start is not that great.

A couple of guidelines for writing groups.

Okay?

I assume that this light turns on.

This is new from last year.

We stood up here like [eight's bane] banging

stones against it for a while and couldn't

figure it out.

I might have my AV guy come and try and figure

it out.

Eventually maybe we'll have a light up here.

Until then, I won't write in the shadow.

If you are a workshopper, giving advice, here's

a few points to give you.

Try to be descriptive of your emotions, not

proscriptive.

Okay.

Try to be descriptive.

What this means is, particularly when you're

newer at this, saying, "I was bored," completely

valid.

There's never a time when "I was bored" is

not a valid response to something you were

bored by.

Saying, "You should add a fight scene" can

be really bad advice.

Sometimes it could be good advice.

If you really know the person, and know the

thing, and you know the submit-genre and what

the writer's trying to do, you could be like,

"I feel like a fight right here would really

snap things together."

But it can be bad advice.

"I was bored" can never be bad advice.

It's always valid.

Your response to the story always is.

Now, the workshopee does not need to take

that.

They can understand, well, maybe you're supposed

to be bored.

Or maybe this book isn't connecting and clicking

with you, and it's okay because someone else,

that's their favorite scene.

There are lots of reasons to not take that

advice, but that response is always valid.

Saying, "I'm confused," always valid.

Doesn't matter if you missed something.

It's okay to miss things.

The writer needs to know if you've missed

stuff.

They may not have made it clear.

Maybe you just missed it.

Maybe your kids were crying, or maybe your

roommates were doing a raid, whatever it is

that people do, and there's like a Pokémon

that everyone needs to catch and you're trying

to read while they're all catching their Pokémon,

and you missed it, and nothing needs to be

changed.

But it's not invalid that you were confused.

Let them know you're confused.

Be descriptive rather than proscriptive.

This comes from-- There's this great thing

Hollywood does, and I've loved it ever since.

They do this test audience thing for a bunch

of sitcoms, and they will get an audience

together, show them the sitcoms, and then

afterward ask them questions, and the questions

are all about the advertisements, because

it's not really a test audience for the sitcoms.

They use the same three test sitcoms that

never expected to be aired.

They want to get your reaction to the ads,

and they don't want to tell you that upfront

because they want to get your natural reaction.

That's what the writer needs from you.

They need your natural reaction as if you

didn't know you were going to be giving feedback

on this.

Just reading it and giving them the feedback

so that they can be like, "Oh, that's what

I wanted," or "Oh, I was totally surprised

by that."

If you're the workshopee, write it down and

don't change anything yet.

That's what that says if you can't read it.

My handwriting.

Somewhere Mrs. Soukup, my 2nd grade teacher,

is shaking her head, because she trained a

best-selling author, and she warned him his

handwriting was bad, and she was not able

to save him.

If you're the workshopee, write it down, but

don't change anything yet.

Give it some time.

Give it some space.

Listen to the feedback and try to understand.

Try to get where they're coming from.

And understand if that's a reaction you want.

Sometimes you want people to be a little confused.

Sometimes you want them to want something

they haven't gotten yet, because you're going

to give it to them in a few chapters.

Maybe you're wrong.

Maybe you've done something wrong.

They're having the complete wrong reaction.

They're all laughing at this thing that you

thought was really serious.

Really important for you to know.

But stay silent.

Unlike whatever it is over there making noise.

This is good advice, particularly when you're

new.

Don't say anything.

Pretend you are a fly on the wall and they're

all sitting around having a book club discussion

of the book, and you're just writing stuff

down.

Prevent yourself from defending yourself.

Prevent yourself from explaining.

If you defend yourself, it's just going to

make people less likely to give you feedback

in the future.

If you explain it, then it defeats your chance

to explain it right in the writing and have

them get it, and you won't know if you are

able to get them to understand it through

your writing, because you've already explained

it and tainted them.

One more thing for the workshopper.

Be sure to say what is good.

The way we do our workshop is we start and

we make everyone say what is working up front,

so the writer doesn't actually change the

things that are working.

Plus, it's really good for you to get told

what is working and that your writing doesn't

suck before everyone launches in to telling

you how terrible your writing is.

So we do a few minutes of that, and then we

transition to things that could use a second

look, is what we call it in my writing group.

It's not things that are broken.

It's just things that the reader felt, things

that they want to highlight, that you may

want to have a second look at, stuff like

that.

All

I think you guys are going to enjoy the class.

I'll warn you, it's kind of like a firehose

thing where I just talk a whole bunch.

I try to make it entertaining, but if you

fall asleep, I won't be offended.

This is for you.

Come with questions, because I will try to

give lots of Q&A periods where we can talk

about things that are not working or working

for you.

If you're interested in being in a writing

group, hang out here.

If you're not interested in being in a writing

group, why don't you go ahead and take off,

and then I'll deal with the rest of you.

But anyway, enjoy the class.

Thanks for taking it.