AWARENESS BEYOND KRISHNAMURTI

Dialogue In Another Dimension

J. Krishnamurti is someone who was supposed to be a ‘vehicle’ for a coming ‘Messiah’ who would use
Krishnamurti as a sort of channel. The Theosophical leaders selected and trained him to undertake such a
role in accordance with their beliefs and their sense of their own importance and authority. Krishnamurti
eventually rejected the role that had been prepared for him and decided to impart the kind of messages to his
fellow man that he himself would find significant in accord with his own personal experiences and
perceptions. Rejecting all authority and tradition as too limiting and immature, he became the late twentieth
century’s most popular authority or spiritual influence on the dangers of authority and spiritual influence.

This paradoxical role has perplexed many intelligent people and continues to do so. Krishnamurti remains a
provocative challenge to any thoughtful person. Nonetheless, recent biographical information given about
him in interviews with himself have brought to light that he does not believe he is the vehicle of a ‘Messiah’
as such, but continues to feel there is some presiding spirit or being that looks over and ‘protects’ him and
stands behind him in everything, but that he cannot have access to that presence or being so as to identify it
or have congenial relationship with it.
So, the Being Protector himself through us assumes the full responsibility for the dialogue reported in this
pamphlet and interested readers need not attempt to trouble the external Krishnamurti brain about all this, for
the truth of all this is beyond Krishnamurti and any sense of his leadership or authority in matters of truth
and real awareness. Of course, his followers who cling to him as an authority will find the truth of all this
upsetting, but that in itself will make all this more obvious, will it not?

In the following dialogue, which the Being Protector says took place directly in the Causal Body beyond
brain and intellect after summoning Krishnamurti’s Causal Body, the Being Protector will be designated as
‘B’ and Krishnamurti as ‘K’. It should be kept in mind, therefore, that the following words spoken by both
are in fact limited condensations of what were essentially pure thought exchanges of quasi-verbal character.
The discerning reader will be aware that the spirit of the ensuing higher dimensional confrontation is very
much in the essential qualities of both K and his Protector. Thus, even if the dialogue be taken simply as a
creative device, such as the dialogues of Plato, it is still very much to the point of the underlying issues.

The following reported dialogue of Krishnamurti with that Being Protector as freely given to us at the
Alexandria Foundation by that Being Protector is an effort by that Being Protector to clear this matter up for
once and for all in the interest of truth. He has made it clear that this dialogue took place on a subtle level
beyond the physical and that Krishnamurti’s external brain does not accept it due to the limitations of self-
isolating authority of that brain.

The Dialogue

B: How is my old student?

K: (laughing): Are you asking if I am feeling physically senile? Or is it that you do not accept that I have
rejected all authority and do not consider myself anyone’s student?

B: The Teacher is always pleased when the student completes the course and no longer needs a teacher in
that which the course was about. You are being treated with affection as a Teacher feels for graduated
students. This includes sympathy toward you for whatever distress you may be feeling about the senile
condition of your present body and brain or about your coming death and what kinds of things will be done
in your name upon your passing away. Is this clear?

K: Quite. What then is our concern in this meeting?

B: This is a competency hearing about you in the matters pertaining to your current self-appointed expertise
in truth and awareness of mind beyond the workings of the brain or intellect. If you are found fully
competent we will help you in your concerns about the future of your teachings in the world of humanity on
the outer plane of the brains and welcome you as a congenial brother in Our work. If you are found
incompetent we will not give help to the future of your teaching and in addition to that may have to
recommend to you the incredibly bitter possibility that you might best learn to accept higher authority in all
this as a refresher course for a time.

We are simply in the position of now being forced by your own expanding public influence and authority to
probe your competence. We would like to carry this out with you in a state of relaxed affection as between
two friends taking a stroll together in the woods or the like. Do you understand?

K: I do not accept that there is any authority in these matters, as I have said for years, and so any
competency hearing (whatever that may be) has apparently no relationship with me whatsoever. If I may
gently ask, sir, why are you implying your own authority in all this? Let us simply explore together what is
truth and let the truth speak for itself.

B: The truth is that your consciousness is still caught up in the self-isolating authority in your own brain.
Your immature reaction toward natural authority in all this, which includes your own natural authority where
your teaching helps awaken people to some aspects of all this, is clearly a brain generated reaction and not
the transcendental awareness it cuts itself out to be. I have implied no authority of my own in all this. As we
explore truth together our natural level of maturity in all this can surface as the natural degrees of
competency or authority in all things pertaining to the area of your self-appointed expertise.

The golden key to your difficulty, dear friend, is that in rejecting all ‘authorities’ you have rejected all your
well-wishing friends and more mature elders in direct truth perception Authority is self-isolating. Who do
you personally know on the earth plane of the brains whom you consider to be as perceptive and liberated as
yourself? Do you recommend that all attend to them in the light of your utterances and influences being
superfluous? It is clear to Us that you are self-isolating in a destructive and painful manner for yourself and
others. In attacking the weeds you have also uprooted the flowers. Have you not overreacted?

K: Let us look afresh at the statement, ”Authority is self-isolating.” I agree with this. Let us reject all
authority, including our own, and thus end all self-isolation. Do you not agree?

B: Let us reject the sense of authority of the limited brain intellect, which is the authority I have referred to
as ‘self-isolating’, and accept the natural authority of direct truth in real awareness beyond in accord with the
degree of capacity of itself it has achieved in the given individual through which it is expressing itself.

K: Can we admit to levels or degrees of maturity of the awareness beyond the brain’s workings? Surely the
very sense of maturity and authority must be swept away and leave the brain cleansed, clear, an instrument
of the other.

B: The degree to which the brain has been cleansed will be the natural level of maturity and authority. Since
my brain is more refined and cleansed than yours in all this, the other has assumed greater authority here. We
are not in contradiction to the fundamental unity and non-ego of direct truth absorption. However, since you
enjoy the distinction of the brain and the awareness that works with the brain from beyond, this relationship
of brain with that awareness has evolutionary implications wherever there is association of awareness with
brains in any situation in the expansive universe at large. Understanding of brain maturation and natural
spiritual leadership is fundamental to any meaningful situation. That is my point which I would like you to
deeply consider.

K: Is it not up to each individual to be watchful directly for himself in real awareness of the brain’s condition
and see to it that it be kept in clear and useful function as an instrument? What need is there for authority
about this? Surely comparison of one brain to another breeds all sorts of illusions and difficulties, does it
not?

B: As long as you feel it is valid for you to influence others with your books, interviews, organizational
activities, and so on, then it must be valid for others also. Are all equally perceptive and helpful in these
things? No activity of teaching or ‘pointing out’ takes place in a vacuum. There is an overall evolutionary

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effort pattern and you and your teaching are part of it. You can take a responsible attitude toward all this or
you can take your usual self-isolating authoritative rejection attitude, which you apparently wish to go to the
grave of your present brain with. Surely this is somewhat tragic for a being who has reached your degree of
maturity and achieved such a wide audience.

K: Will not the overall pattern take care of itself if the individual will look to his own brain condition
without forming illusions? Surely the entire pattern is the responsibility of each individual. The individual is
that pattern and that pattern is the brain’s conditioning over thousands or years of culture, language, beliefs,
and all the rest of it.

B: The individual brain is the total pattern and the total pattern creates and controls the brains. One must
work on both sides of the equation to liberate awareness from conditioning and activate the higher
potentialities inherent in liberated awareness. Helping myself I help others, helping others I help myself. The
heart of the intelligent human being will have this mutual sense of impersonal individual awareness coupled
with pure compassion and regard for all, sharing the total pattern with good communications and
relationships. There must be no contradiction or opposition between the two ways of working. I have
attempted to explain this to you since ancient times but you are apparently still having difficulty listening.

K: May I say in all respect that I do not have any perception of who you are or of you teaching me from
ancient times? So apparently your assertion has little meaning.

In reference to the need of working on both individual and world liberation of awareness, I thought this was
what my teachings and schools for children were accomplishing. Surely this is clear.

B: I am the one you have known as Buddha, but have taken on other aspects and responsibilities to meet the
current crisis of evolution of awareness in the brains of the present global situation. I am presently working
in a physical brain prepared by the higher awareness for the present confrontations with various self-isolating
authorities and the like. You do not recognize me because you do not want to. It would be too inconvenient
to your own sense of supremacy and authority of your ideas that you have been building up over the years.
So, I am simply assuming responsibility for having helped you get into your present misunderstanding and
egoism about yourself and your perceptions.

As for your organization and publications of your teachings, it is not an altogether helpful and evolutionary
activity, but has too much of over-concentration on your particular limited ideas and not enough of wider
appreciation and acknowledgement. You are creating Krishnamurti-indoctrinated minds that will have very
little sensitivity to the sacred or to truth in alternative forms to your own. This gives your organization and its
schools a cultish quality that tends to negate some of their positive points. Potentially your organization is
more than a cult, but only when dogmatic adherence to your message, your authority, has been widened out.
Why don’t you let Us help you out with your present predicament? We could make some excellent
recommendations.

K: What do you recommend? Can we set aside for now this problem of Buddha and the like?

B:We cannot set aside your Buddha problem because I recommend that you make it clear to all your students
that your old teacher, the Buddha, which is myself, is present to help make your work into what it should be.
Let the less mature effort give way to the more mature effort. Give up your authority. Put it at my feet as an
offering. I will in turn offer it to My Teacher to see what He thinks we should do about it. It is now perfectly
clear to me that you are incompetent in the area of real awareness beyond the brain. Your glimpses of it are
of value for yourself and others, but you have not related your glimpses properly to the total evolutionary
situation. I am sorry to have to make this judgement, but your brain has remained adamantly resistant to this
exchange between us.

K: I find it difficult to agree that you are Buddha. Also, I do not feel that my competence is of any concern
of yours whatsoever for whatever reason you believe you have to speak to me in the way that you do. If this
is due to some barrier in myself, then I assure you that it is completely out of my hands. I am simply sharing
my perceptions freely with whoever wants them and do not accept that such is an authority situation.

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B: Yes, your sense of self-isolating authority bubbling out of your brain is now a barrier to your recognition
and acknowledgement. But it is not out of your hands. After your death you will have increasing pain as it
dawns upon you what has happened in your rejection of my help. I do not wish this coming suffering upon
you and am trying to help you, but again it seems the Teacher has to let the student learn some things the
hard way. Continuing in your isolated false independence will not bring you to the state you envision for
yourself with your current brain-rejuvenation programme. Get ready for some difficult shocks and lessons. It
is a great pity indeed. I feel some sorrow for you.

K: What do you want me to do? Join the Buddhist Tradition? Have you not seen what they are like? They
cling to their scriptures, their gods, their authority, their conditioning. They want everyone to become
Japanese or Tibetan or something like that. Surely all that is immature.

Whether you are Buddha or not Buddha has so little significance, does it not? Since I am not a Buddhist, and
since I am not going to become one, what is the point of all this? Can we not just be friends and let all this
take place simply without confrontation, ‘competency tests’ or authority recognition difficulties? However
sincere your compassion toward me, surely that is your business for you to understand. I am in no way in
need of it.

B: So now you are creating the new Krishnamurti Tradition. The imitation Buddas will be replaced by the
imitation Krishnamurtis. But it is not too late for you to put a stop to that, and consequently help me to put a
stop to my imitators. Hence both Buddhists and Krishnamurtists could help one another meaningfully in real
awareness beyond the brain’s conditioning and arrogance. Since you have enjoyed my protection over the
years from behind and beyond, it will not hurt you to acknowledge it and let me benefit your students more
directly after you leave the scene. I will be able to reach many of them anyway, but some could use your
humility in all this. You need not become a Buddhist, just stop insisting to me that I become a
Krishnamurtist as if it would solve the difficulty of this encounter for you. I am no longer Buddha anyway,
but have retained the term so you could find a way to relate with me for the good of all. There is an
Awareness beyond Buddha and Krishnamurti that pervades everywhere at all times. Submit more fully to the
truth of your own teaching and the truth will set you free from your Krishnamurti brain and its problem of
self-isolating authority with its followers and schools. Then you will either acknowledge me with humility or
be silent for evermore and give up your influencing activities and dissolve your plans for the preservation of
your teachings.

K: Do you not need to practice humility and listening also, sir? Surely your assertions give you no more
authority than truth in the listener?

B: If I may humbly point out, you are yourself having difficulty with listening because you have spent so
long cultivating the position of one who must be heard without desires, without conditions. Now you are face
to face with a kind of super-Krishnamurti, someone beyond you in the very listening you have demanded of
others. Hence you do not even listen to yourself properly. This is the competency test you are failing and I
am afraid it is all too real, as hundreds of intelligent people will understand even if you are not yet able to. It
is unfortunate that you and I must be an embarrassment for each other in this way, but you have given me no
choice but to come forward and confront you.

K: If you are Buddha or the Being Behind, why do you not come forward in a courteous way that I can
understand so that we could work this out in private without embarrassments?

B: I have attempted to do this many times, but whenever I have approached you have behaved in a
condescending and presumptious manner as if I were some confused seeker in need of your enlightenment
statements or teachings, and as if you were already overburdened with people wanting to see you for your
help or advice. Your own attitu(Ie of authority has prevented the private contact. Now you have to face the
music, as it were.

K: Why have you not simply shown yourself to me directly from the other place and made all this clear?

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Surely you need not approach as a confused seeker.

B: There is a Law that prevents Me from coming forward in a manner that would uphold your false
authority. As for the approaches from outside through normal means, I assure you that all the enlightened
people who have tried to approach you have been automatically seen by you as your inferiors in need of your
‘higher perceptions’. Your followers mirror this attitude in their assumptions that there is fundamentally no
one existing on earth who is not in need of joining them in following you and indoctrinating themselves in
your teachings.

K: I am not trying to convert anyone to my teachings or to any authority whatsoever. I am sorry if you were
not able to get my attention when you wanted it, but there are so many demands upon me that I cannot
always arrange for private interviews. If I have made some error in judgement on this matter, please accept
my cordial apology.

As for those who think of themselves as my followers, I have over and over again stressed the need not to
indoctrinate or convert others, but to simply learn to ask the right questions. Can we not let this matter drop
now at this point? Surely all this will just disturb various gullible minds who are looking for someone to
follow.

B: Try to understand that your condescending attitude is not necessary with me and that you are fixing
yourself in a position that avoids some very important questions indeed. I suggest that you now make use of
my attention, here so freely given to you, while you are still able to get it and before you go through the
sufferings of discovering the hard way after death what all this is really about.

K: Whoever you are, you are certainly persistent. What questions do you feel I am failing to ask?
Perhaps this could be interesting for us.

B: That is much better. Let us defuse the difficulties with earnest inquiry. I suggest we return to the total
pattern of evolutionary effort on our planet here and perceive our real place in it. In this light we may
discover together how various awakening people can overcome their clingings to particular authorities,
including those who cling to you and your teaching, and reach a better way of being, both individually and
communally or cooperatively without forming silly cults. We can thus improve our message for the time
ahead and become a little more charitable to the tradition-bound brains that are preserving here or there some
useful insights or fragments of truth expressed by our own kind who were also beyond those traditions but
had to express themselves in a more traditional way because of historically known dangers and difficulties of
their surroundings at the time.

K: If we are charitable toward the tradition-bound brain as you suggest, will we not just be joining it and
thus succumb to its limitations? Can there be a relationship between tree awareness and conditioned belief?

B: Not only can there be, there must be and is a relationship. Working out the total pattern of that
relationship is the responsibility of the free who are present in connection with the pattern. That is why you
have been internally forced to come to terms with your old teacher now. This may be a great personal strain
for us, but we have to work it out.

K: I find it difficult to see how there is a relationship to be cultivated with what must drop away. How do
you explain this? This is interesting.

B: Let us picture that some wicked tyrants decided to build a jail to unjustly imprison a carpenter. Having
no material for a jail, they made the carpenter’s own workshop into the prison. The carpenter then has a
double problem: he must free himself from his prison, but the prison will no longer be a prison when he is
free. He cannot just burn it down. The liberation process must not destroy the tools he will need once he is
free to do his real work. Do you see my idea?

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K: All right, let us see where we are in this inquiry. There is the old brain with its conditioning. There is the
instrument which has become the prison. We do not want to destroy it as we rise beyond it. It must not
decide our awareness or we only have limited thinking which is no awareness at all. Right? But surely we
must be primarily earnest in the liberation, the dropping away of all limited thinking. Is this not so? One thus
becomes aware of tremendous danger in cooperating with the old brain. It must simply be quiet, clear.

B: There are two dangers, as I have pointed out. There is the danger of remaining imprisoned. I agree with
this. But there is further danger of damaging the instruments needed for the work of the free. Also, you must
understand that traditional involvement’s are a necessary preparatory field for the vast majority of people and
they cannot be immediately liberated. People of free awareness therefore have to take up guises of tradition
to work with these people and prepare them step by step for the higher awareness, which is so that it will not
be destructive.

K: But surely the primary danger is that of remaining in the prison, the conditioning.

B: No. Both dangers are primary. We have to understand the whole thing and not just half. You have spent
years publishing a half truth. Now you must learn to work with full truth. All dangers are there. We must
become fully competent in dealing with it all. No half truth will solve the terrible problems confronting the
individual human being. Fully effective help must be rendered for all who need it.

K: Can the individual be helped by another? Must not all learn to listen with a quiet brain and receive their
own direct help of the awareness beyond, which is meditation, if I may use that worn out word?

B: If they need to have such things pointed out by you and others, they may also need other things pointed
out as well. This is so obvious. Also, not all the needed forms of help are on the verbal level. This entire
process of helping has various dimensions. Meditation, self-help through personal attitudes of independence
or quasi-independence of reading your books over the years, these are only partial help you are giving.

K: Can you give me an example of what you would call fuller helping?

B: A man comes to you and says he has no peace of mind. He feels helpless. His wife hates him, but he is
tied to her. He wants to know how to be quiet, to be like you. You notice that he himself is so self-centered,
so greedy for himself, so insensitive and so unaware of what is going on around him or within his mind that
he is not able to listen well to you. You point this out. He goes away looking temporarily uplifted by your
peaceful awareness and freedom, but still troubled. You know and he knows that he is going to read your
books with redoubled effort, leading himself around and around in some vicious circle to do with your
influence on him. You blame him for not listening properly, washing your hands of him, he wants to blame
you for not giving better answers or advice, but cannot see where you might be inadequate.

Simply begin with some such person and try to see what other kinds of books he needs to read in addition to
yours, what other kinds of teachers or advisers he may need to meet in addition to you. Do not enclose him.
Do not let him enclose himself with you. Make him search, reach out, sensitize himself to the problem all the
seekers and questioners are working on, both traditionally and non-traditionally. Set him really free right
from the beginning and be there when he needs you, like a true friend.
K: That is like recommending to him that he further torture his poor brain with more and more inadequate
answers. Will a collection of bad teachings add up to one good one? Let him listen to what I am saying and
he will be all right. If he is going around in circles from not listening to what is, then surely that is sad. Am I
responsible for his not listening?

B: You are responsible for whomever you have implicitly accepted responsibility for through suggestion. If
you consider that being subjected to your teaching until it is understood fully is the only means for people to
activate their higher intelligence beyond the brain, that is the mere creation of a Krishnamurti indoctrination
system in their brains. Indoctrination is not the awakening of intelligence, but puts it to sleep, making the
brain a servant of the preservation of your books and nothing else. Try to understand what really happens to
the brain of someone who is constantly fixated on your utterances and see what you yourself naturally want
to do about that. Have you not noticed in people close to you personally in your immediate circle a

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distressing lack of real inquiry? Have you not noticed that people who have been saturated in your ideas for
years on end seem to be still lacking in aliveness, in the kind of open-ended sharp clarity that you enjoy
glimpses of? The way out of the trap into which you have led yourself and your followers is through
recognizing the trap.

K: Surely the teaching is not a trap for everyone even if some seem determined to set me up as an authority
and indoctrinate themselves?

B: Your teaching has its uses. It challenges the assumptions of tradition-bound brains, it asks questions other
spiritual leaders like to avoid because they fear the truth. Nonetheless you are responsible for the tendency of
many to entrap themselves in your teaching, who become your indoctrinated robots. By acknowledging other
sources clarification and their also limited usefulness your followers will gain fresh perspective and be able
to view your teaching in their own inner light of truth more expansively. Concentration will become
inclusive rather than exclusive and the higher awareness will be able to unfold itself more rapidly. Your own
teaching through seeing itself in the totality of useful teachings will become itself more effective and
promising.

K: I have an intimation of what you are trying to point out. Perhaps we can take a fresh direction in all this
without loss of essential clarity. I do not know how much I can bring this fresh insight into my old outer
brain, but perhaps we can set up a more overt interview between us if you would like to try. Nonetheless, a
pattern has been built up that may not be easy to break. Perhaps your confrontation with me may prove
ultimately more stimulating than destructive or frightening to my many robots.

B: I think we can stop here at this point for now, for your causal body is now radiating a slightly wider and
more humble light. I will not pressure you more until all this shows up physically for you from an
unexpected direction. Good health to you.

1986
THE ALEXANDRIA FOUNDATION
High Burton
Masham, Ripon
N Yorkshire HG4 4BS
England
ISBN 0948873 13 2