Full Transcript- From

Interview:
INTERVIEWER INTERVIEWEE
It feels odd when I come back now, (pause) it’s odd, odd, it just feels odd. know what
I mean? (pause.)
Yeah (pause)
Ahh (groaning holding back/ stretching) mwah (kiss on the forehead and hug.) Right
I’ll put the kettle on.
Right, Can I start the interview?
Yes, do you mind if there is kettle noise or.. ?
No it’s fine (pause)
So how was lockdown for you?
It felt very long (pause) I think (pause) the (pause) when it came to the third
lockdown (pause) that was the one that hurt the most.
Why do you think it hurt the most?
(pause) (almost listing) I think (pause) it was the fact that I knew that (pause) I would
have to stay indoors even more (pause) I knew I wouldn’t be able to earn any
money. Umm the boredom (pause) tedium, the repetition, everyday just becoing the
same, no Friday stops meaning anything, weekends stop meaning anything.
Umm (pause) and I think when you have that much free time, it’s quite hard to
appreciate free time because you haven’t got anything to compare it to.
(pause) (running water) i.e. work
So what would you say got you through?
Umm (pause) tried to keep a positive attitude, each day tried to achieve something,
so just set myself a few tasks each day, (pause) tried not to dwell on it too much. I
thought that actually a lot of people had it a lot worse than I did, some people were
dying, some people in hospital, I felt sorry for nhs staff, I was very glad that I wasn’t
in an ICU, treating people.
Have you ever used living day to day before in your life? Were there any other times
where you thought I’ll live day by day?
Yes (pause) yes I have
What, What time?
I think it was when I left law (pause) when I was unsure of what I was going to do
next (starts walking to the sink) and I was slightly lost as to what I was going to do
after that.
(Ignites stove to place kettle on top)
Why did you feel like you wanted to leave law?
(Inhale) I did it for 25 years, I felt I could no longer do it I literally felt that I could no
longer (pause) force myself to do something that I didn’t really want to do. (pause)
and before I was just forcing myself to do it and then actually I thought actually I can
no longer do this.
So did you have a plan to keep going or did you plan to stop after a certain point?
I think each year I said right I’ll just do one more year (pause) and then just found,
then it was another year (pause) and then someties I’d be driving into work thinking
how many years have I done this now? (pause) And then in the end of the day I
think I almost just was forced out of it I found it very difficult to make a decision to
sensibly leave it, so I was almost forced out of it.
(pause)
Did you have any idea about what you wanted to do next or did you just think I’ve got
to get out?
I did, I think because I was so tired by it all, I think I just needed a rest (pause) (sniff)
umm a breather, collect myself and then start again.
To think about then what you wanted to do.
Yeah
So, really I just did a holding job, which was just (pause) fairly mindless, fairly easy,
driving cars.
When you were driving cars did you think this is what I want to do or did you still not
know?
No, no I was just (exhale) treading water I believe. But I enjoyed it none the less. I’d
already, I had always wanted to (pause) I’d always had a hankering to do something
like long distance lorry driving and just driving, driving, driving for hours and hours,
and just travelling around.
What did you do whilst travelling around? Did you listen to music? Did you just think?
I did do a lot of listening to music if sometimes I did have another driver I’d just chat
to them and we’d just talk about all sorts of things.
What sort of music would you listen to?
Generally the radio, if somebody had left a CD in the car I’d listen to a CD, but I
generally brought a CD with me or listened to an ipod, just radio normally, radio 2
normally.
I used to listen to pop master everyday 10:30 if I could, pop master, pop quiz.
(pause)
So, before you went into law, when you were making decisions when you were my
age about what you wanted to do as a career did you immediently think of law?
No, (pause) initially I was going to do psychology, I was thinking of becoming a
Psychologist.
So, I chose that as one of my, I chose that as my university thing, erm (pause) but I
was talked out of it by a number of teachers. (pause) that I respected.
So did you listen to them over yourself?
Yeah , at least two of them, said no don’t do that, do something else.
What do you think the reasoning was? Why did they say that?
I think at the time I was thinking of going into advertising and one person said you’d
hate advertising (pause) because it’s not very principled, it’s not, it’s sort of very
much (pause) conning people to a certain extent, it’s a bit half nosed (pause)
someone else said, it’s the wrong decision for you, (yawn) you’d be far off better
doing something else. (pause) that was a reverend, a reverend said that.
Why do you think you listened to other people?
I supposed I respected them really. (pause)
When you were really young what did you want to do?
(pause) I never really thought about it really, I was always outdoors and I was always
building things, making things, so my parents always thought I might go the other
way and be like a carpenter or a, do something with my hands. (pause) And I think
for a while they though I was a bit stupid because I didn’t say very much for years, I
didn’t say anything.
But you were content?
Yeah, so they thought I was a bit simple I think (slight pause) (laugh, big cheeky
smile)
But yes I could make things with my hands, early on.
Do you think in the future you might use that in a career or as a hobby?
I’ve used it in that, I, before what children I, we used to buy houses and then I’d do
them up, so I’ve built a whole kitchen, so I did things like that and put in wood I’ve
built all the units, I built all the doors, I used to build all the panels, when you’ve got a
panel that’s hampered like that I used to do all of those. Ermm so I’ve made doors
like that, that have to be shaved to be shaped.
Do you look fondly back on those times?
I did enjoy it, but it was quite time consuming. (pause) and in a way like most things
in my life I said right, well I can do that so I moved on to the next thing.
So you always reach for something?
I think I’ve always said well right well I’ll try to get as good as I can get at that thing
and then I’ll move onto the next thing, that’s what I did at skiing, really. I thought I’m
quite a good skiier now, I don’t think I’ll get any better now. So I sort of stopped doing
skiing, same with woodwork to some extent.
What do you think will be the next thing?
Umm (pause) what career wise or next hobby.
Whatever you will reach for next.
I wouldn’t mind doing offroad biking actually, trials biking, going up steep hills, over
branches, all that sort of stuff, riding along with your feet on the pegs, so you’re notr
sat on the seat. Doing a little bit of orinteering aswell, where you go across field to
get somewhere, so you’ve got a map, so you’re riding along looking at a map.
What is it that you like about motorbiking?
(pause) I think the adventure of it, I think A you’re outdoors, the adventure of it, it’s
exciting (pause) I think I quite like the adrenaline buzz, umm I think that’s why I like
windsurfing really because again it was outdoors.
Do you like the freedom of it?
Yes (yawn) yeah so when I was your kind of age I was on a (yawn) a moped tearing
around dartmoor going through rivers and streams and forestry commission land, out
on my own in the middle of nowhere.
In a scooter or a motorbike?
I had an off-road it was only 50 cc, it wasn’t very powerful but it was an offroad bike
with knobbly tires.
Did you go by yourself?
Nearly always by myself, couple of times I took Jo Longstale but she was just on a
moped thing so she couldn’t really go, off road like I could go.
Would you prefer going by yourself?
Not necessarily but erm at that time I didn’t know anybody else that had an offroad
bike I suppose.
Do you think you would be content the rest of your life riding motorbikes?
No I think I’ll do other things aswell but I’m not quite sure what those things are at the
moment.
Are you just going to try and figure it out when it comes to you?
I mean I’d like to do more surfing, get better at surfing, maybe get a shorter board.
Erm because you can still surf as long as your reasonably fit you can surf probably
until you’re seventy. Wind surfing is a bit harder, starts to hurt your arms and
shoulders and you haven’t got the same “arrgh” I’m not that excited anymore unless
I’m going abroad.
So are you excited for after the pandemic?
Umm well I think it can only get better, touch wood. I’m looking forward to going into
a pub garden on the 12th next week.
(pause) so I’m going to go with Will and maybe the new flatmate, sit in a pub garden
in Exmouth, it’ll be nice to book a festival or something, I think that’s going to be a bit
dodgy this year, the government made an announcement that they are suspending
all flights from the start of June.
Do you think that a lot of people are suffering in lockdown mentally?
Absolutely umm, I think most people have always had exactly what they want, so
you know “Prince Phillip’s” died today, they were saying when he was married in
1947 so after the second world war, nearly every- most people didn’t have a car,
didn’t have a television, we’ve all got all these things, we’re really, we’re really kinda
consumerist and kinda wealthy really. Or at least, in those days it was (exhale) umm
osterity after the second world war, lots of osteriousty, rationing you couldn’t just go
and get salmon and olives and I mean they weren’t there anyway but there was a lot
of osterity, people didn’t have all these things and they made good. People have had
it too good for too longin the capitalist world, and now they have to suffer a bit, they
just don’t know how to do it really (pause) I think.
I think we’re all spoilt (laugh) We’re totally spoilt and we’ve taken everything for
granted, so I suppose the things it might remind us of our don’t take things for
granted. And umm some people have checked on their neighbours, some people
have a neighbourhood attitude to things. Some people have offered to get older
people’s shopping and all of that sort of stuff. Some people have helped people who
have shielded. People have begun to realise exactly what’s important in life, which is
family, maybe being a bit nicer to each other.
Have you always thought that family was important?
Yeah absolutely yeah (pause) and I think you know trying not to be too lonely and
checking up on people who might be living in a house by themselves.
What was it like when you started your own family?
(exhale) Umm I was very excited about it yeah, it was very exciting , scary aswell, I
suppose it puts pressure on you in terms of earning money. You think right I’ve got to
look after this person. I’ve got to keep a house over their head, but I try not to think
about it too much.
Is that partly why you felt so trapped into doing law?
I think yeah, it was hard for me to move into something else and immediently earn
money.
When did you reach the boiling point of doing law?
Umm I had a number of times where I thought I should give this up but I suppose
2013 was when it really, Spring, Easter of 2013 was when I thought I really shouldn’t
be doing this anymore I should be doing something else.
What made you think that?
I was getting very stressed, anxious, I didn’t want to go into work err stopped
enjoying weekends, got depressed I suppose.
(pause)
How long did that last?
Errm I think it was building up to that for a number of years, (sniff)
Who helped you or didn’t help you who sould have?
(laugh) My wife certainly didn’t help me really, yeah, (pause) I think she was part of
the problem rather than the solution, yes, ermm, ermm, no I don’t think she did help
me really.
Are you annoyed that no one helped you?
No not really, no not really, I don’t feel angry about it , but I don’t feel, I just feel
(pause) that (exhale) (pause) I was slightly lost and I didn’t know how to make my life
better, so I just carried on, I just carried on, that’s what people do I think.
Did you feel slightly robbed of those years?
No, I had about ten years, I had ten good years and then the last few years maybe
more was unhappy, but lots of people were unhappy in that same firm , the firm was
going bad really as well.
The firm was starting to go down, they started to run out of money and money
became a big issue and they dumped down on all the staff, they were under
pressure because they were gonna fold, the pressure cascades down onto the staff.
So you’re sort of beating staff up emotionally, in order to try and get more money out
of them really, they call it sweating the assets, sweating the assets of the business.
So after all that did you adopt any different philosophy about life?
I think I realised that you don’t, everyone tells you you need all these things, you
don’t need them. (leans forward, laughs) You just don’t need them (little chuckle)
And if you cut out most of them you realise that actually you don’t need much to be
happy and all the trinkets in the world don’t make up for the fact that Monday to
Friday or however long it is you work, if you’re miserable Monday to Friday it doesn’t
matter the fact that you’re going back to a fancy car or a huge house (inhale) or
having holidays abroad, cause you’re not able to enjoy them anymore because
you’re miserable. (pause) so all you’re doing is being unhappy in comfort, ultimately.
You don’t need these things, I mean you get some, you hear stories you know of
people, lawyers and they’re earning phenomenal amounts of money, buying fantastic
flats and they’re never in that flat in London because they’re working, they don’t even
see the flat that they’re paying ridiculous rent for. Or a ridiculous mortgage for.
They don’t drive the sportscar because they’re actually in the office, they’ve got a
beautiful sports car outside that just sits there. They never get in it because their all
they do is work.
Did you encounter a lot of people like that?
I saw a bit of it, yeah, in London, I saw a bit of it.
Do you think they realised or do you think they were blinded by the money?
I think they lose their priorities, they allow work to take them over, they let everybody
down, so things like, it happens quite a lot with the younger people, so you’ve got a
25 year old their friend’s gonna meet them on a Friday night and they say Oh I’ve got
to work long so turn up at six, so they go to reception and they’re sat at the office at
six and they’re still sat there at seven and they go where the hell are you I’ve sat
here for an hour, they say oh I’ll be just a bit longer, just a bit longer.
How would you descibe yourself ?
Tired, emotionally tired. (slight chuckle) tired. I suppose (exhale) I suppose I’ve
always been relatively laid back on the whole, generally, I’d like to think that I was
quite kind, ermm I have been a bit naïve in my marriage, I think , I perhaps
comprimised too much umm but I suppose now (breath) I more just ( pause)
accepting that people are what they are.
(pause) And that you have to go along with it really , I suppose you tend to think that
everyone roughly thinks the same as you (breath) and that people will do the same
thing in the same situation as you get older you realise that actually they don’t and
that people are very different (sniff) and also a lot of people are extremely false
(pause) so, they’re saying one thing in to your face and actually they think
completely different.
Do you ever feel quite betrayed by people?
I do , yeah (pause) I think on the whole most people will let you down, to be honest.
(chuckle more of an exhale) I do (chuckle) I do. I don’t think that many people are,
well I think it’s more a modern thing, the more modern world isthat people just live for
themselves, regardless of the consquences, so very egotistical, very self centered
and it’s very rare to find somebody that’s actually quite kind, supportive and wants to
help people, selflessly, I don’t think there’s that much of that around, and the people
that are like that are generally like careworkers that work for charities and they’re in
that job because in a way you’ve got to be slightly selfless because you’re working
really hard and you’re not getting paid very well, so I think, I think that it’s odd that
society doesn’t reward people like that and yet they reward somebody that is vertially
gambling with money and is making loads of money, why, I don’t get it and I don’t
understand why they reward a footballer who can kick a ball around, yes I can see
it’s a short career but why are some of these people getting paid hundreds of
thousands of pounds a week, for kicking a football about and yet someone else
who’s a neurosurgeon who’s got all these amazing skills isn’t getting paid a hundred
thousand pounds a week.
Do you think society’s got it’s priorities wrong?
I do, I think it has gone wrong and I think that capitalism has gone very wrong, and I
think that capitalism can only work if you, if you , yes I don’t think that pure socialism
works-I don’t think it does, I don’t think it works to say, everyone’s going to go down
to the same factory and get paid the same wage (inhale) Umm… that doesn’t work,
but I certainly don’t think that capitalism, it’s got to the point now where it doesn’t
work either because it doesn’t carry enough people. (pause) There are too many
people left behind, there are too many people (inhale) who can’t afford to live
(breath/pause) And then you’d say well actually if capitalism is working, we can
afford to help those people who are on low incomes but actually we’re saying no
you’re on your own now (inhale and exhale) there is a well fair state but you make it
so difficult that people can hardly claim it , what you can claim is meaningless.
Do you think that the Poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer?
Right now, yes I do unless we change the system, yes.
Do you think the system will change?
(sips tea) I think there’s more social unrest, it’s only because of social unrest they’ll
change it. Because those people with loads of money don’t give a shit. (pause) they
don’t give a shit.
A flying f. (breath) umm and I think there are too many polititians who literally just
don’t want to make the world a better place they just want to make themselves more
money (pause) I think there are polititians who want to make it a better place but I
don’t think they last long and I think that they leave. (pause)
How would you change it if you could?
Christ that’s a big one (laughter)
Oh wow
If there was just one thing that you could say and everyone would listen?
Bloody hell (laughter)
(inhale) I think I’d encourage people to maybe somewhere along the line, I don’t
know how you would do it to stop thinking that the internet and social media is
everything and start actually just living life again and stop having such a virtual life
and actually start living life again.
And limiting the amount of time you spend on these gadgets, because I think it cocks
you up eventually, I think it wrecks your life and you know these people who, that
Flack woman who killed herself, she killed herself because she’s looking at these
things and its making herself really miserable, you should actually just say well
actually I’ll spend ten minutes a day just catching up with people, but you don’t need
to, you know I was brought up in a generation where I didn’t have a phone, I didn’t
have a mobile phone. We had one phone in the house (breath) if I went out for a
cycle ride for four hours or something I’d have ten p in my pocket to make a
phonecall in a phone book if I had a puncture or I got lost, something like that, you
don’t need all these things, it’s just not necessary.
From being a child in that generation and experiencing that when you see children
now using it, it’s a different world and it’s strange?
I do, I can’t relate to it at all, and I don’t think it’s for the best .
When you saw your own children with devices did you feel scared for us?
I think it can run out of control and you can get addicted to it quite quickly.
And I think it can make you depressed. And yunno some people are even killing
themselves cause their cyberbullying and their in a room and their parents don’t
really know what’s going on and (breath) in the old days you couldn’t really reach
somebody, you could have a horrible time at work or a horrible time at school and
then go home and then you’re safe, whereas now people can reach you in their
bedroom, they can send you horrible, horrible things one after another, beat you up
effectively in your own bedroom, virtually beat you up, make you miserable, you’d
have to knock on somebody’s door and say can I speak to Peter, but you know you
wouldn’t do that so (pause).
Do you think the internet is disconnecting families and people from the real world?
I do, I think it’s created probably more problems than it’s solved. And I think that’s
lack of control. (deep breath)
Umm And people are abusing it and it’s the biggest source of fraud now, so it’s being
misused, the most fraud that’s occurring is on the internet, and people doing
transfers of money, something they call ermm romance fraud, where you’re getting a
woman who’s sort of whoever it might be, woman who’s say sixty and then there’s
somebody who’s say forty who’s saying I really love you and actually can you just
transfer me some money, so they work them and then say send me twenty thousand
pounds, these people are sending them twenty thousand pounds.
And they know they hardly know that person, and they’re doing it because they’re
lonely I think. People are lonely. I think, I think, yeah, unfortunately I think that the
internet has slightly just stopped people from meeting in real terms and talking to
each other, they’re just texting each other.
(pause)
And the same with the internet dating thing, in the old days people met through work
or they went to a party, or they went to a coffee bar and now they’re sending each
other CVs ultimately and then maybe meeting up and I also think some people aren’t
valuing relationships because they’re just thinking well it’s almost like shopping on
amazon for a girlfriend you know. And you’ll see what they’re like on Friday night and
then you don’t like them so you go out with someone else, it’s almost become like
retail, getting a girlfriend’s like retailing, buying something .
Having another possession .
So rather than actually relating to somebody they’re just thinking, this is fun, this is
exciting, and almost getting addicted to it, so I think the addiction thing is what these
devices tend to encourage and the gambling ones in particular that’s really
dangerous.
I think it’s just because it’s so accessible and so easy that, before you know to
gamble you had to go down to the book makers in the highstreet, walk in, so it had to
be open in the first place, whereas now you can gamble at four in the morning, I
think that’s the danger of it, so if you are out of control you can destroy your life quite
quickly really, if you’re out of control and it does become addictive.
Do you think that your grounded in the sense that you like natural things like surfing
and motorbiking you appreciate nature?
Yeah, that’s always been the things, yeah, that’s always been the things that I’ve
been excited about. Ummm I suppose just as you get older you get slightly less
excited by things because you’ve done a lot of them- things, that you want to do.
(pause) umm
Do you think that the excitement ever runs out and you think I’ve done everything
that I want to do?
I think for some people it does , I think for some people it does, for others no,
ermmm (pause) I mean even somebody like Tom Jones, so he’s eighty years old,
he’s still gets excited about doing music, I think if you enjoy what you do whatever it
is that you’ve decided, it doesn’t have to be, obviously at eighty you’re retired really
so he’s not doing it for money, just as the lead singer of chic you know he hasn’t
done it for money, for thirty years, he’s doing it – he’s only turning up because he
likes to do it he’s doing it cause he wants to do it.
(pause) ummm (pause)
I’m doing motorcycle instruction, I’m not earning I mean I do need to earn money but
I’m not earning that much money, but it’s not really (pause) desparately hard work
and I’m happy doing it and it’s sort of worthwhile, I mean I don’t know if it will be
worthwhile in ten years time, but right now , it’s fine (yawn) yeah (pause) umm I
suppose in ten years time I’m sixty five anyway so I’ll be heading towards retirement.
After being in both extremes, From earning lots of money but hating what you’re
doing and not earning much money nut really enjoying what you’re doing which one
would you pick?
I would tell anybody to do something that you enjoy (pause) yes, you always have a
day where it’s not so much fun, but if you really yunno ultimately I didn’t want to be in
an office really errmmm I think if you force yourself to do something you don’t
particularly want to do for long enough you will get quite miserable about it.
Ermm and money isn’t everything, it’s not.