26/4/2021 Adding turbo to VR6 3.

2, my experience, QA

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Author Topic: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA (Read 8387 times)
Hello eliotroyano
April 26, 2021, 03:47:21
OZZIE1 Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA
PM Jr. « Reply #60 on: April 23, 2021, 11:09:17 PM »
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last visit.
Show new replies to Quote from: Blazius on April 23, 2021, 09:51:47 AM
Karma:
your posts. +10/-4
Total time logged in: 33 [applaud] Because zwbas/zwgru =/= zwout. The timing values dont equal whatever is in
days, 4 hours and 41 [smite] KFZW most of the time unless you are running without torque interventions in
minutes. Offline dev mode.

Posts: 35

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I understand that, but if I remove 6 degrees from kfzw maps( there are
16 on my 7.1.1), shouldn't some timing decrease show up? There
seems to be something stopping the timing from decreasing. There is
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no kfzwn map on these me7.1s ,so what limits the lowest timing?
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Blazius Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Hero « Reply #61 on: April 24, 2021, 02:33:56 PM »
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Quote from: OZZIE1 on April 23, 2021, 11:09:17 PM

Karma:
+50/-29 I understand that, but if I remove 6 degrees from kfzw maps( there are 16 on
[applaud] my 7.1.1), shouldn't some timing decrease show up? There seems to be
[smite] something stopping the timing from decreasing. There is no kfzwn map on
Offline these me7.1s ,so what limits the lowest timing?

Posts:
913
Check the FR.
Either you arent changing the right set of maps - only one set is used
per variant coding- or there is something else is limiting it, there are
many reasons why output wouldnt follow kfzw base values (specially on

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26/4/2021 Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

n/a soft) or even go lower than whatever you have in the tables ( could
be all bullshit for all we know).

Also there is absolutely a kfzwmn + map in that ecu.

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OZZIE1 Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Jr. « Reply #62 on: April 24, 2021, 06:52:42 PM »
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Quote from: Blazius on April 24, 2021, 02:33:56 PM

Karma:
+10/-4
[applaud] Check the FR.
[smite] Either you arent changing the right set of maps - only one set is used per
Offline variant coding- or there is something else is limiting it, there are many
reasons why output wouldnt follow kfzw base values (specially on n/a soft) or
Posts: 35 even go lower than whatever you have in the tables ( could be all bullshit for
all we know).

Also there is absolutely a kfzwmn + map in that ecu.

Thanks Blazius,
I'm going to have a go at copying one map to all KFZW 16 maps ,
zeroing out DZWOLA and KFDZWKG to avoid lambda corrections.
As far as the kfzwmn map is concerned, I really cant find any winols
files that have it. I looked at complete winols files for 022906032GP,
KR,CE and there is nothing there, mine is a KG, I don't have the winols
file for that but the three above get me quite far.
An earlier model (2004) 022906032DR has the map it. I did a byte
search and couldn't locate it in mine. I also looked at the word
minimum in german but did not get the needed map. The values in the
map from the 32DR are too low to have had an impact even if they
existed in mine, so I will focus on the assumption that I missed the
KFZW map I needed to edit
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prj Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Hero « Reply #63 on: Yesterday at 02:48:27 AM »
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Really stupid idea to copy the same map.

Karma: The maps are for different camshaft phasing and intake flap
+392/-102combinations. The engine needs different timing as a result.
[applaud]
[smite]
Offline
If you want to just offset global timing this can be done through global
offset maps, there's more than 1...
Posts:
4080

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Blazius Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

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26/4/2021 Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA
Hero « Reply #64 on: Yesterday at 03:17:25 AM »
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Quote from: OZZIE1 on April 24, 2021, 06:52:42 PM

Karma:
+50/-29 Thanks Blazius,
[applaud] I'm going to have a go at copying one map to all KFZW 16 maps , zeroing out
[smite] DZWOLA and KFDZWKG to avoid lambda corrections.
Offline As far as the kfzwmn map is concerned, I really cant find any winols files that
have it. I looked at complete winols files for 022906032GP, KR,CE and there
Posts: is nothing there, mine is a KG, I don't have the winols file for that but the
913
three above get me quite far.
An earlier model (2004) 022906032DR has the map it. I did a byte search
and couldn't locate it in mine. I also looked at the word minimum in german
but did not get the needed map. The values in the map from the 32DR are too
low to have had an impact even if they existed in mine, so I will focus on the
assumption that I missed the KFZW map I needed to edit

Don't do that. Like mentioned they are for NWS and changeover timing
variation, unless you have disabled them. Also indeed ZWMN is pretty
low by default anyway it's unlikely thats what it is limiting you.

Again tho you havent said anything about your setup, what you are
trying to achieve, why the need for retard , did you turbocharge the car
etc.
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OZZIE1 Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Jr. « Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 06:06:02 AM »
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Karma: Its fine guys, I just did it to make sure the timing changed, and I would
+10/-4 have traced the proper map later, but alas it didn't change again!!
[applaud]
[smite]
Offline
All I want to do for now is to retard the timing around 1500-2500 at
Posts: 35 loads of %~80 and higher. I noticed that the motor knocks around 90%
load and retards from 2 to 6 degrees sometimes one or two cylinders
other times most of them. I want to alter the map so it just below the
knock threshold. I know I could just leave it, but I like the car and
want to do this as a hobby. I know the cam maps and the lamfa map
do affect the motor when I alter them, so I assumed the timing maps
would also work, but it was not to be.
I'm pretty sure the 16 maps were correct but who knows.

I get the feeling the chap who did this turbo conversion ran into the
same problem but the car ran fine with boost and the same N/A
timing??

So today, as you can see in the pictures, I made the area of interest
quite retarded and copied the map to all of the ones in the pic. I double
checked the bin file and all changes were saved.
VCDS log showed 95% actual load, and 14 degrees of advance around
that area and there was some knock retard. Is it possible that the 16
kfzw maps are just a legacy and are no longer used by this ME7.1.1 ?
Has anyone seen kfzwop being directly used to calculate timing, instead
of just being used for efficiency calculations? Any ideas appreciated!!

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26/4/2021 Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

kfzwmaps.jpg (71.64 KB, 562x272 - viewed 4 times.)

mymap.jpg (113.36 KB, 796x511 - viewed 9 times.)

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prj Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Hero « Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 06:53:59 AM »
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Instead of posting screenshots, start posting proper logs or just stop

Karma: posting altogether.
+392/-102
[applaud]
[smite]
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OZZIE1 Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Jr. « Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 07:09:49 AM »
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Karma: I don't think logs are going to help you much as you seem to know fa
+10/-4 about this ecu
[applaud]
[smite]
Offline

Posts: 35

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:18:10 AM

by OZZIE1 » Report to moderator Logged

RBPE Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Sr. « Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 08:37:58 AM »
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Karma: KFZWA/2, KFDZK, KFSWKFZK - Need to change kfzw/2 a fair bit more
+35/-5 too by the looks of it, shouldn't really need more than that
[applaud]
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26/4/2021 Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA
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RBPE Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Sr. « Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 08:40:09 AM »
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Karma: Oh, there's also always KRMXN and some KRRA tweaks too
+35/-5
[applaud]
[smite]
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prj Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Hero « Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 11:17:36 AM »
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Quote from: OZZIE1 on Yesterday at 07:09:49 AM

Karma:
+392/-102 I don't think logs are going to help you much as you seem to know fa about
[applaud] this ecu
[smite]
Offline Just keep bashing your head against the wall, that'll help.

Posts:
4080 As for knowing - it's you who is too dumb to change timing on a ME7.

I have a fair few turbo conversions and other things under my belt.
Funny how I never had issues with timing.
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Blazius Re: Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA

Hero « Reply #71 on: Today at 03:02:54 PM »
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Quote from: OZZIE1 on Yesterday at 06:06:02 AM

Karma:
+50/-29 Its fine guys, I just did it to make sure the timing changed, and I would have
[applaud] traced the proper map later, but alas it didn't change again!!
[smite]
Offline
All I want to do for now is to retard the timing around 1500-2500 at loads of
Posts:
%~80 and higher. I noticed that the motor knocks around 90% load and
913
retards from 2 to 6 degrees sometimes one or two cylinders other times most

nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=17038.60 5/6
26/4/2021 Adding turbo to VR6 3.2, my experience, QA
of them. I want to alter the map so it just below the knock threshold. I know
I could just leave it, but I like the car and want to do this as a hobby. I know
the cam maps and the lamfa map do affect the motor when I alter them, so I
assumed the timing maps would also work, but it was not to be.
I'm pretty sure the 16 maps were correct but who knows.

I get the feeling the chap who did this turbo conversion ran into the same
problem but the car ran fine with boost and the same N/A timing??

So today, as you can see in the pictures, I made the area of interest quite
retarded and copied the map to all of the ones in the pic. I double checked
the bin file and all changes were saved.
VCDS log showed 95% actual load, and 14 degrees of advance around that
area and there was some knock retard. Is it possible that the 16 kfzw maps
are just a legacy and are no longer used by this ME7.1.1 ? Has anyone seen
kfzwop being directly used to calculate timing, instead of just being used for
efficiency calculations? Any ideas appreciated!!

Stop guessing and start logging with me7logger, log all the timing
related values and you'll see whatsup.
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