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Gusset For PSV #37097 07/28/10 01:54 AM
Tengku_Syahdilan Go
Dear All, Advanced

Member
Please advise me regarding modelling Gusset for PSV as you see in
Who's Online
the drawing with cloud in the attachment below. I'm sure some of
Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 56 you have the experience about this kind of support modelling. 0 registered (), 5
Loc: Indonesia Is it the same way as we modelling trunnion, but how about the Guests and 1 Spider
connection to the vertical pipe? (please refer drawing in attchment online.
below) Key: Admin, Global Mod,
Mod
B'Regards
March
T.S Su M Tu W Th F Sa

1 2
Attachments 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

GUSSTE FOR PSV.zip (341 downloads) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

17 18 19 20 21 22 23
_________________________ 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Tengku_Syahdilan
31
"From Failure we Learn"
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Re: Gusset For PSV [Re: Tengku_Syahdilan] #37102 07/28/10 07:29 AM
15757 Topics
Richard Ay 70770 Posts

You would need to run an element from the elbow to the vertical pipe
Max Online: 126 @
Member below the PSV. Neither node would be called a tee.
05/09/18 04:29 PM

Registered:
12/13/99 The attachment to the elbow would be modeled in the same manner as

Posts: 5909 a trunnion (as you stated). Just bring that element back to the vertical
Loc: Houston, pipe, instead of going straight down (as you normall would for a
Texas, USA trunnion).
_________________________
Regards,

Richard Ay

Hexagon PPM (CAS)

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Re: Gusset For PSV [Re: Richard Ay] #37142 07/29/10 06:02 AM
Tengku_Syahdilan
Ok....Richard, i've done that, but do i need to specified

Member unreinforced fabricated tee SIF at the vertical pipe? coz as you see

it would become like a lateral tee isn't it? and i'm remember a
Posts: 56 discussion with Mr. Ron Haupt that for Lateral Tee, it is better to
Loc: Indonesia put SIF as unreinforced Fabricated Tee, and calculated the Branch
Stress using branch section Modulus (see at
http://www.sstusa.com/06aprjun.php)

http://forums.coade.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showﬂat&Number=68354&Searchpage=2&Main=8155&Words=constant&Search=true#Post68354 1/5
Please once again refer to the drawing below.

tHANKS IN ADVANCE

B'Regards
TS

Attachments
(158 downloads)
PSV SUPPORT.zip

_________________________
Tengku_Syahdilan


Richard Ay
No, you don't have a tee (you didn't cut a hole in the pipe), you only

Member welded a strut to the pipe.

Registered:
12/13/99 Tees are used when you cut the pipe, to permit flow down the branch

Posts: 5909 leg. This alters the flow of the stress around the hole, hence stress
Loc: Houston, concentractions, stress risers, and SIFs.
Texas, USA
_________________________
Regards,

Richard Ay

Hexagon PPM (CAS)

Tengku_Syahdilan
Ok i understand that....but still when i am modelling a trunnion

Member and run it to the vertical pipe, i still need to model a rigid element

from the center of the vertical with length equal to half pipe OD,
Posts: 56 then to this point the trunnion from elbow will connect. So If you
Loc: Indonesia see the drawing below, i will run rigid element frist from 460 to
470, then modelling the rest till i get to the trunnion part and run
it back to node 470. Correct me plaese...

Attachments

PSV SUPPORT For CAESAR II Modelling.zip (189 downloads)

_________________________
Tengku_Syahdilan


Tengku_Syahdilan
Dear Richard,

Member

As our discussion above i have modelling the "Gusset" as Trunnion
Posts: 56 (but withou restraint..) and bring the element back to the vertical
Loc: Indonesia pipe. ANd Caesar II gives warning :

"The node 99 on the corvature of bend element has been specifie
elsewhere in the system and seem sto be an intersection of 3
pipes. It is not legal, but should be check carefully for accuracy."

Is it ok to have this warning? is there something i missed?
Please refer this JPG below....

Attachments

065calmprpe0001.zip (176 downloads)

_________________________
Tengku_Syahdilan


Re: Gusset For PSV [Re: Tengku_Syahdilan] #37180 07/31/10 09:46 PM
Richard Ay
The warning is ok, because you really modeled it that way, on purpose.

Member
_________________________
Registered: Regards,
12/13/99
Richard Ay

Posts: 5909
Hexagon PPM (CAS)
Loc: Houston,
Texas, USA

Stress_Admirer
The support modelling is okay , and will solve your purpose. I was

Member intersted if you are also doing flange leakage in your calculation. That

would create some extra problems for this kind of support.
Posts: 41
Loc: Australia make sure you dont need to do the flange leakage in future with this
support system.
_________________________
With Regards,

Stress_admirer

Re: Gusset For PSV [Re: Stress_Admirer] #37262 08/05/10 03:43 AM
Tengku_Syahdilan
Thanks Stress admirer, indeed i am doing the flange leakage

Member calculation and there is no significant result for force or moment.

personally, i prefer not to use flange, just trunnion, or usually i will
Posts: 56 use trunnion directly vertical down to the pipe below it, and make
Loc: Indonesia it slide. But in this case i can't do that because the pipe below it is
already being supported by a trunnion to, and the dead weight
load is already big, altough still beyond our company allowable
load.

_________________________
Tengku_Syahdilan


pipestress
Member Hi Richard,

Registered:
06/23/10 Well, this is a very old post. But, I am just curious and tried to model a
Posts: 5 gusset support and see how the system behaves. The PSV inlet piping is
Loc: canada normally at a higher temperature (say 300 deg.C). The discharge piping
is at a lower temperature (say 150 deg.C). When we connect these two
piping with a gusset, which is somewhere between ambient temperature
and a mean of inlet and outlet piping temperature, obviously the
expansion stresses would fail. But, a lot of PSV piping have these
gussets and are still working fine. Am I missing something, here?
Should we consider any flexibilities for this arrangement?

Please share your thoughts.

Regards.

Ibrahim
Demir Pipestress,
Member

You need to check the drawing in the first post. It says; "This application
Registered:
01/02/03 is based on calculation and recommended by piping mechanical, and
Posts: 244 would be applicated on special pipe support dwg.".
Loc: Australia
I believe the support drawings belongs to vibrating piping, and the
gussets between pipe and small diameter branch attachment are to
eliminate additional vibration frequencies on the small branches, and
against fracture.

In your case the system needs to be evaluated for the purpose.
Shortening and/or increasing the inlet nozzle diameter (probably using a
suitable reducer) might be a solution without using a gusset. Discharge
pipe is normally a separate piping beyond discharge elbow, and can be
supported by structural members. You may use a special expansion
chamber between elbow and discharge pipe since the discharge pipe
diameter may be larger.

danb
Member Strictly speaking about gussets on PSV, I've seen also this kind of

supports. And are working fine. Problem with these gussets is that is
Registered:
04/22/05 hard to justify the solution using a computer program. I guess that the

Posts: 1311 explanation is that in reality the temperature is not constant along the
Loc: ... line. Normally the PSV is closed and the line upstream is not subject to
flow, therefore the temperature is in fact low as it is also the discharge
line. When the PSV will open, this support will have his role to protect
the flanges. Since is not a constant flow, the temperature will be
different from theoretical temperatures. The only thing is that the gusset
length need to be kept at minimum. I'm not a big fan of this kind of
support, but sometimes it is useful.

Regards,
_________________________
Dan

Re: Gusset For PSV [Re: Tengku_Syahdilan] #68361 02/16/17 12:59 PM
pipestress
Member Thanks Ibrahim and Danb for sharing your thoughts. As Danb says, it is

difficult to justify using computer program. As long as it works in reality,
Registered:
06/23/10 it is still a widely used supporting arrangement. Thanks again.
Posts: 5
Loc: canada
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