MICROBIAL FUEL CELL that's about 25 watts and if you convert
By : Bruce Logan that to light bulbs that's actually
enough to run a compact fluorescent I'd like to give you a sort of a a one slide which generates just about as much light introduction to the bigger picture and that is as as that hundred watt bulb environmental engineer I mostly started out like so our our annual water infrastructure many environmental engineers worrying about in the US was about 30 gigawatts or water and a water infrastructure and about five to six percent of all the providing both potable water and electricity that we produce in this providing sanitation and as you think country goes into our water about the global water infrastructure infrastructure and maybe half of that you start to realize how much energy goes for wastewater treatment these are this all takes not just in the US but to very fuzzy numbers and they're provide water and sanitation to the discussions about this but the really world takes an enormous amount of energy important point is that at any and if that's all provided based on wastewater treatment plant fossil fuels then what we're really there's about four to ten times the doing through this water infrastructures amount of energy in that water than we is contributing to climate change we use to treat that wastewater and so if don't want to do that because climate we could extract just a small fraction change will of course continue to of that energy in the wastewater we disrupt water cycles which will probably could make wastewater self-sufficient lead to greater energy consumption and and in fact if you look at making so forth it's my experience that people wastewater self-sufficient and maybe don't have a more personal appreciation even recapturing the energy in the for how much energy or how much power we wastewater so we got seventeen gigawatts consume in our lives and so it's it's in the wastewater we're no longer using one thing to say well we're going to 15 gigawatts to produce no longer build a nuclear power plant that's a producing can gigawatt of power production who can assuming fifteen gigawatts of imagine a gigawatt so let's put it on a electricity so that's roughly 45 more personal level look at the 2,000 gigawatts in primary energy so you're calories you eat every day and energy looking at if we can make this per day is power so if you were to take sustainable and produce energy somewhere that energy per day and convert it to a between maybe 40 and 60 gigawatts of an hundred watt light bulb how many hundred a gigawatt that's a that's a nuclear watt light bulbs could you run off the power plant these are not small numbers food that you eat every day anybody want so we should be thinking about them and to guess if we could figure out how to harness I hope somebody wants to guess you can that energy then we have all this random number generator but what do you cellulosic energy that we could harness think 110 100 a thousand a million half in a non combustion based process these okay are water based processes right and we anybody else 30 good okay so everybody can look start to look forward to other at least is coming up with some number sources of renewable energy to maybe in their mind I hope so mostly I've power our water infrastructure things never gotten half before most people like salinity gradient energy there's will say somewhere around a few light almost a terawatt of energy that's bulbs - 10 20 maybe as much as a hundred released where fresh water flows into and and the answer is really one pretty salt water and then there's a lot of good so but you think about that you waste heat energy any power plant that think oh my gosh all this food I eat you produces a gigawatt of electricity also know I can never burn that off that must produces 2 gigawatts of waste heat and be a huge amount of energy and yet so thinking about how to recover some of that's it one light bulb so think about this energy and to use it maybe for our how to reassign this energy for the water infrastructure but for other water infrastructure on that basis and reasons as well now I'm gonna focus most and you know we're not perfect that's of my time on this idea of waste water how many calories we eat but if you look I'll come back and just say a few words at what goes down the drain shall we say at the end so how can we capture this 1 energy well a microbial fuel cell is a hydrogen and if you want just say split device where bacteria can grow on one water at the anode and use some electrode they break down organic matter renewable energy source to provide that they release those electrons from the power and then put some with antigen x' organic matter it's just like how we get on that cathode and those methanogens energy right we eat food we oxidize it will produce methane now you can do this we remove electrons we send those electro chemically you can evolve electrons through respiratory enzymes methane electrochemically without any and then when we're done with them we bacteria but it takes precious metals release them to oxygen right so we need and you get a lot of other products to eat and we need to breathe so we have besides methane here you get one thing to continue that flow of electrons so you get methane and you can do it with a these bacteria can do this we keep them source of co2 so turning co2 into separate separate separated from the something useful so these are microbial oxygen and that creates when they electrochemical technologies they have release those electrons a potential microbes on the anode and maybe not the between the two of electrodes of about a cathode or they have them on the cathode half a volt they've when you have a and maybe not the Anna voltage times current you have power and or maybe they have them on both the so that's how you generate power in the anode and the cathode but there's got to system and it's a really simple system be microbes somewhere or it's not a in concept two electrodes on either side microbial technology there may be of a container bolted together here and electricity that's generated or we may you just put some use a power source to boost that and to waste water in there and you generate drive the reactions that we want at that electricity so if you don't want cathode and there may be no membrane electricity maybe you want some other there may be one membrane there may be biofuels what about this system to make stacks of membranes between these something else so let's say we have a electrodes these are all different types membrane here and the oxygen is being of technologies that can be used to bubbled into the cathode so we have the convert different types of organic same thing going on in the last slide matter into electricity and almost except it's not that cathode is exposed anything that's biodegradable can be to air it's exposed to oxygen in air and used to produce that current we can at water take that system and take away the the cathode as I explained reduce oxygen oxygen and now what happens or reduce protons to hydrogen or we can well absolutely nothing really because do value added production whereby those the bacteria can't generate enough electrons or hydrogen from the cathode voltage to drive any sort of reaction is used to make other products but I over here so if we help them out if we really want to focus our talk here on add in a little bit of power into this waste water as the main source of energy system we boost the voltage that they or fuel for the microbial fuel cell and make then we can actually drive hydrogen I want to tell you about how to develop evolution here because we've got these technologies so the focus points electrons going this way protons going are going to take one step back I want that way that's what a hydrogen fuel to tell you a little bit about the cell is right it's protons and electrons electro microbiology what's on the anode and we can involve hydrogen at the and a little bit about the methanogens cathode and we can do it for about a that might grow on a cathode then I'd tenth of the energy that we need or a like to discuss some of the materials tenth of the voltage that we need to that go into making these systems and split water because we're not splitting then leave lead us into how we use those water on the anode where we're using a materials and those microbes to scale up thermodynamically favorable reaction these systems and make them useful then that only needs a small boost of about a right before I conclude I just want to 1/2 two-tenths of a volt to drive say a few minutes about salinity hydrogen evolution at that cathode ok gradient energy the aw SP talks actually maybe you don't like the hydrogen there's two of them that you get to do economy and you want to make something and this is the one that you chose and else take this system which is making there's another one on salinity gradient 2 energy so I'll just give you a little wondered about how insight into that so first the electro that difference arose at the beginning microbiology this is what some would say and you can see at the beginning the two is a new sub discipline of microbiology wastewater treatment plants this is a it's really just based on relatively principal component analysis which shows recent discoveries that microbes can us how similar dissimilar these samples accept can donate electrons to are at the beginning the wastewater electrode or accept electrons from an samples were quite similar to each other electrode and so I want to first talk and much different than the BOK right about these ones that can generate but by the end they all grouped together electrical current independent of what their inoculum was so eggs o of eggs o outside the body that is they were enriched and converged electro jens generating electrical to very similar communities at the end current outside the body outside the of the tests so we said well in these microbe what microbes are doing this so reactors it must be geo bacter but we what we did was we went out to our wondered if the way we did the favorite place to get microbes which is experiment influenced the outcome a wastewater treatment plant we went to because we set the same resistance on two different wastewater treatment all the reactors maybe that was not plants and then we went to a natural right so we took these same cube setting and a bog a wetland bog area we reactors we ran duplicates this time and put these different samples in microbial we set each of the anodes at different fuel cells we generated power we potentials so a range of potentials from evaluated how well those samples worked minus 0.25 all the way up to 0.8 1 volts and then we looked with various and you can see that no matter what molecular biology techniques to see what potential we set we ended up with was in there so this is a cycle number Proteobacteria and when we analyzed every cycle means that we filled up one which Proteobacteria there were they of those little cube like reactors that were almost all G of actor so the answer I showed you at the beginning we is it's all G of actor sulfur reduce ins generated some voltage and some power except for one little minor point which then the bacteria ate up all the food we was that the student working on this emptied it out we refilled it so this is went in and got a nice little reactor the first second third fifth filling and it came up Oh it's most similar to tenth 15 so we went through this 20 geo backed herself or reduce ins but the times and you can see the two wastewater problem was is that it had all these treatment plants and each cycle produced properties that actually were quite more and more voltage and really different from geo Vactor sulfur reduce paralleled each other exactly it was ins most importantly it it cannot use amazing two different treatment plants fumarate as an electron acceptor and it almost exactly the same performance and had some other characteristics which yet the bog shot up and then continued allowed us to classify it as a on pretty well but you know by the end completely different species so even of things they were all producing about though it's most similar to it leads us the same amount of voltage so we were to believe in our reactors it was not - thinking okay these guys look really you backed her sulfur reduces but good you know maybe not so much there so another species that could tolerate the what's in there what are these microbes high phosphate buffer concentrations we and that are in there that are doing use on the other characteristics of the that so we used pyrosequencing reactor so how do these geo bacter to look at the types of bacteria and you bacteria do this electron transfer well can see these are the three samples and it turns out that they make these pill I these are triplicate reactors so all which are able to allow them to send three reactors three different samples those electrons from inside the cell to and almost in all cases you can see a outside the cell what we call these huge preponderance of these blue bars conductive pili nano wires and this is which are Delta Proteobacteria so almost kind of really cool because think about all Delta proteobacteria and then down how much effort people have been making at the genus and species level almost to make nano wires and these bacteria all geo vector sulfur reduce ins so we may have been doing this for like a 3 billion years we don't know so they can it's electrically making that methane respire by sending these electrons out not be a hydrogen or acetate so what presumably to things like metal oxides what sort of evidence is there that this in nature but to our electrode in our could be occurring first are there are reactors you have those geo bacter which there type microorganisms like we saw produce these nano wires other types of for geo bacter out there that might do cells like xu and L will produce this who are they what what are they conductive appendages as well you have doing and and and if so how are they some bacteria which produce chemical doing it so imagine you have a cathode mediators which move back and forth you're just sending current to that and between the cells and the surface you enrich it for methanogens and we did Pseudomonas aeruginosa is a good example that and we found that the culture was of this you have others that need to predominantly Amitha no bacterium plus make direct contact they they have tree and when we compared the amount of nothing to send it out there but if hydrogen that could come off that they're at that surface they can use electrode without the meth antigen to that and then you have other microbes the amount of methane we could get we which live in these communities for found we got far more methane than could reasons we don't fully understand but be explained by just hydrogen evolution they live off the byproducts of some of off that electrode so we said well it these other products what about okay so must be catalyzing the release of those that's the electrode Jen's what about electrons how else could it grow that the electrode Trost right nature like how else could it make methane that fast cycles if we have something that's going if it wasn't due to direct electron to send something out there's usually transfer so we went and got a type going to be something out there that's strain a storage strain and we did the going to consume that that product so same test but it produced much much less what about these electro tropes what methane per unit time however it still about things that accept these products had much higher methane production rates there are microbes that can catalyze than could be explained by abiotic dissolved oxygen reduction so electrons hydrogen production well this was a pure coming off the cathode to oxygen to culture but this was not a pure culture nitrate I want to talk about the ones so we said okay let's go back and see that can reduce co2 to make methane the let's go back like we do but geo bacter classic Mike the classic theory on on we'll go back to our favor how bacteria interact with methanogens Bogg and we'll go to a wastewater is the fermentated bacteria break down treatment plant this time we went to an something like glucose releasing acetate anaerobic digester let's inoculate a and hydrogen some the fountains use the bunch of reactors and see what grows acetate other methanogens use the there so we inoculated these reactors hydrogen now this is a pretty fast with the bog sediment and a box sample process these electrons flow very and with the sludge and I want you to quickly through these fermentated of just focus on the cathode what ended up organisms on the cathode and you can see this big and then when they the hydrogen is used black bar in both cases and that black by the meth Anjan the methanogens a fast bar is Mathon Oh bacterium and if you but it actually processes that hydrogen look at the seed for these two samples very very quickly and so what you have you see almost no madonna bacterium you in terms of classic microbiology theory have a little bit in the bog sample but is that is called interspecies hydrogen really almost no detectable Matano transfer and it's sort of based on the bacterium in the sludge and yet in both slow diffusion in the liquid of hydrogen cases we ended up with almost between these two microorganisms well exclusively nathanael bacterium we that doesn't make sense thought well maybe it's the material we it's like connecting two highways with used and so we went back and we tried the dirt road why would anybody do that all sorts of things why not cut to the chase right go from magnetite nickel molybdenum and and all one enzyme to another enzyme and now these other things and you can see these even bother making hydrogen so we would are open circuit controls that means we call that electro methanogenesis in that didn't put any current through the 4 system but this was with the cathode set our abiotic rates are very low so we at minus 600 millivolts these are almost don't think it's that so maybe it's all black except for that one which I'll nanowires get back to in a second but this one is but so far when we've looked at these different cultures it's not like we see these this one is with platinum we have nanowires all over the place like we do platinum which is an excellent hydrogen with geo bacter so we're not thinking evolution catalyst we end up with it's that so that leaves us right now methanol brevibacterium DUP with with sort of two different hypotheses methanol bacterium so when we have a one it's a hydrogenase it's two good hydrogen catalyst we get something hydrogenases linked up together sending different than when we don't have a good those electrons along our second hydrogen catalyst now I've left out this hypothesis is it's fairy dust okay one orange bar right well turns out even because if this one fails we don't know though you set up duplicates sometimes what else where else to go right so it's they don't always replicate each other's some sort of magical fairy dust which is performance and in this case this making this work let's see which one it reactor did not perform very well it is my money is on the hydrogen's actually was pretty bad at making so we did some work with Alfred's methane and interestingly it also did Foreman at Stanford University and what not have a lot of methane or bacterium Alfred did in his lab was he got him a so what's going on here you know we have fountain caucus mera pollute us this was these electro gens electro troves you before we knew it was a methanol know we we know some of these electro bacterium but he got this metallic gens make nanowires we have these caucus but the really neat thing was he electro troves with antigens in one case was able to get this meth Ana caucus and you know how specific is this with all the hydrogen ace genes deleted interaction so here's the way that these archaea you know in enzyme catalysis they talk make methane through these pathways and about lock and key right so the question there are several hydrogenases some in is what do we have here plug in socket I the pathways some for other reasons and mean that's it resistible come on right in this particular microbe they took it because this has this is pretty specific and they deleted all those hydrogenases and if you're you know if you're a which means it's growing on it can grow microbe in the US this works but if on four mate but it can't use hydrogen you're in the UK it doesn't work so well in any of these other pathways and so there and if you're in Europe there's no the idea is okay can it make methane connection right that's not a specific from an electrode and and it can't do it lock and key if it's just using hydrogen it doesn't but maybe the methanogens have figured have hydrogenase okay so here's the that out and they have this sort of abiotic rate of methane production while universal adapter for all these donors there's no methane coming off okay or maybe it's all Universal donor abiotic Lee there's nothing there and Universal acceptor and not very specific look look look we don't we don't know so we want to methane it's there so this thing doesn't know and and so we're interested in have hydrogenases so how can it be these mechanisms and the the first making methane if it needs hydrogenases question to simplify this is our to do this bacteria needed between the methanogens it can't now hydrogen will come off this and the electrode right do we have to electrode at this - 600 millivolts it's have a bacterium here or is it just coming off a little bit and you raise hydrogen bubbling off here and everybody you make it more negative and more uses it well we don't think that's hydrogen's coming off and this thing's really true we don't see so far any sort the more negative it goes it starts to of correlation between bacteria on that grow a little faster but doesn't seem to cathode and the same thing we saw with be hydrogen or maybe we missed a the methanol bacterium so we're gonna hydrogenase it's possible so where does say no bacteria not needed so that that leave us I said my money was on the leaves us with some alternatives one is hydrogenase I lost its hydrogen just bubbling off here but that's why engineers don't make good 5 gamblers we we don't like to gamble there and we have to move this electrode so really we're down a fairy dust now in close to the cathode because that the case of the methanol caucus mera reduces ohmic resistance in the system pollute Asst Alfred told me he's just we don't want them to touch so we might gotten a paper except at the EM bio it want to have a barrier there against should be out shortly and he will tell connections between the two electrodes you and our cathode typically when we made a little bit more about fairy dust with these had a platinum catalyst and an Fe the Nathanael caucus than I can tell you own binder and the Platinum cost about because his experiments to tell you as much as the binder and so if you put about so stay tuned for the fairy dust this all together you were looking at okay so what about making use of these $2,000 a square meter mm is more than a things in reactors and let's get back to hundred a lot more and so this says the electrode jens and making there's no way this is going to work electricity this is these are some of so what we've been doing and others have the reactors that are being built around been trying to drive the cost of these the world from benchtop two thousand a materials down we got the anode down to thousand liters in these cases you know probably about $20 a square meter the what what is going to make this cathode may be about the same you know technology go forward and you know so we're looking at maybe 40 $50 a what's going to go what's going to make square meter for materials that's not as it go forward is an easy application produced and we've actually even made wastewater treatment and taking that some other improvements we think we can wastewater and making electricity so I'm get this down a little bit lower so how here to tell you that microbial fuel do we do that well the first thing is if cells cannot alone cannot be used for you have all these electrodes how do you wastewater treatment okay put them into the tank or into the there they can do this they're gonna reactor so take the idea of two of these need some help and I'm going to tell you little cube reactors together with a why they need some help little air space between the cathodes but the MFCs we can do this the and expand that up and you can have a challenges were the cost of the flow of wastewater a flow of air flow of materials maintaining our stable reactor waste water you know you can have a populations and the second part of that whole series of these all connected up is we got to treat the wastewater and like I sort of showed in that cartoon produce a high-quality effluent so let's earlier so that you create these modules focus first on this materials issue of electrodes so the idea is you mass there have been a couple studies done it manufacture the modules and you throw says we need to make electrodes for less them in a tank okay so what are these than $100 or 100 euros per square meter modules made out of the anodes it turns these are you know okay they don't out we use graphite fiber brushes we they're not exactly the same but close need something that's electrically enough and so we have to do that can we conductive non-corrosive has a lot of do that well here's where we were about surface area per volume and it's easy to five or six years ago take wastewater manufacture and these can be made by put your anode in that's usually carbon machines their brush machines I can do cloth or carbon paper and then the this they have a huge amount of surface bacteria will be able to grow on that area and the size of the fibers actually you don't need to do anything else to is a good match to the size of the the anode you put the cathode in that bacteria cathode can use oxygen but we don't have so the anode as brushes is pretty good to bubble air into the water so we want and in fact the stability of these as an it to be exposed to the air but if it's anode is good as well because this is an exposed to the air it can leak water experiment we did over a hundred days through the electrode so you got to put and these are the voltage produced again something on the outside it's kind of over these multiple cycles over a like why you wear a gore-tex jacket hundred days and these brushes stayed right you don't want water coming in very stable but these flat electrodes here we don't want water going which are placed close to the cathode so we got to put a diffusion layer on failed and they failed because the 6 cathodes were contaminating the anodes long as the current densities aren't with oxygen so they they started that high which they aren't in our breathing oxygen instead of using the systems it's a good oxygen reduction electrode so engineering how many catalyst well that's cool and so this is electrodes do you put it do you make platinum and carbon cloth and a fiown them big do you make them little do you really expensive this is cost pennies so make them wide short so we you know we environmental engineers love to play did some experiments and and with these around with activated carbon because we different electrodes per area and when absorb things on to it we regenerate it we did that we changed the size of the we burn it we recycle it you know so electrode but that also changes the we're like all right we get to play with distance between the electrode and the activated carbon so we took all these cathode and so the question is do we carbons and we evaluated them for their need to keep that distance the same or ability for oxygen reduction and I've do we move it away and and so forth and highlighted two here because they're the so we found was the big brushes did two best ones okay I want you to better than these little brushes in this remember these ones B 1 P 2 P 1 P 2 ok B position but if we move this brush 1 and P 2 did the best up here and these closer than it did better than the big are just this is these are power curves brush and so this is just the two with different catalysts made out of all brushes in the different close spaced these different materials and we did you and not close spaced and you can see we don't care about the details the produce a lot more power when we put it important thing was that we could show a closer that's a good electrochemistry correlation between strong acid groups effect not a biology effect so the on those carbons and the power we got answer is make a lot of small brushes look at that correlation it's beautiful place them close to the cathode except isn't it ok which ones did I ask you it didn't work it worked here when we remember use the acetate and well buffered where's b1 well everybody knows if you solutions when we used wastewater we don't like the result don't put it on found tremendous instability in this the graph now you can't do that okay electrode because this is one and this this is probably our best material and is another one made exactly the same way it doesn't fall on that line we haven't and you don't want to go out and build figured it out one wastewater treatment plant and then and that's good news and it's bad news build another and have them work the bad news is we didn't figure it out differently you want them to work the the good news is we can write some more same so this will work the idea works grants and try and figure it out so under well controlled systems but under that's a mystery we don't understand not well controlled systems this is the that the other thing we want this carbon anode potential and the good one and to do is last a long time we don't want this is the craziness that goes on in to build a wastewater treatment plan and the bad one so basically it's not stable have it go south very quickly so these the bacteria on the anode get corrupted are power density curves with different by having too much oxygen now the cathode activated carbons treated different ways was a trickier thing the cathode was and versus platinum here's the Platinum typically made out of platinum and so we right at the beginning here's the were thinking about replacements for Platinum after 16 months nothing left no platinum and I was at a conference in in activity really at all that's like bare France and these guys from Belgium come carbon but our activated carbon isn't up and they go we have a great doing too well either so we cleaned it replacement for platinum I'm like great this shows the time course over several what is it other one here's the Platinum falling they said activated carbon that's really off really fast and here's the slow good yeah tell me about that later I decay these other ones we just did a gotta go now no no no no no no really dilute acid wash of the cathode and we this will work this will work and you restored the activity to nearly the know they were right it actually did original one so that says okay this work activated carbon is actually not a right now this activated carbon isn't bad catalyst for oxygen reduction as going to work forever but we can 7 regenerate it and maybe we can figure here we are with acetate or waste water out ways to prevent it from fouling so this is time this is current we're that's another avenue of research that making electricity making electricity we're looking at we want to be able to the co D is going down so it's a little manufacture these cathodes really batch reactor and it's consuming up the inexpensively and so a student in my lab co D it's dropping dropping dropping came up the idea of putting activated dropping okay but you'll see what carbon in with a PVDF polymer now PVDF happens here is that you know it's going is used to make membranes by what's along and then all of a sudden it called a water and a phase inversion or plummets the same thing happens with the a water immersion process it's really waste water it goes along and then it easy to do it's really cheap and it it plummets when it's plummets when that could lower the cost of these electrodes making electricity anymore down to about fifteen dollars a square you want to make electricity but you meter and we also looked at how well it want to keep doing that until the co D resisted water pressure so some of these is gone get up to around a meter of water and in fact you don't do that when you pressure before we saw some leakage so have about a hundred 150 milligrams per that's good that means we could make you litre of CO D left electricity know an electrode that's about a meter generation stops you can see that a high and you know you want to make them little bit better here when you graph it that because they're not electrically on the basis of Co D and current it's conductive coming down coming here boom it just over those long distance so you probably falls off coming along coming along boom make them smaller and more like you know falls off so what that means is we can't like pains on a window you can make the get the co D down to the levels that we window big but it's got a lot of panes need to discharge that wastewater into in it it works well with the acetate it the environment and that's why MFCs works well with wastewater just as well alone cannot accomplish wastewater as our other materials so we think we treatment they need help have that one soft okay we got the one interesting reason why this crash materials for the anode the cathode occurs is we think it has to do with we're all ready to go now here's here's this electric field now I teach a course the next challenge we have to treat the in transport and I always teach about wastewater and get the co D out now advection and diffusion I never teach there's actually oxygen leakage in here this third term because there's no and some of that oxygen is leaking in electric fields that I generally worry and it's being used by microbes that about in nature but here there's an grow on the cathode so we're actually electric field and what that electric removing some of this but just feeding field does you stick two electrodes in microbes air that's not really what we water and ions migrate to those want to do now some of that oxygen that electrodes okay you have an anode and a leaks in goes into our circuit but cathode that a that are at different that's a small percentage less than 10% potentials the the acetate and about 5% the rest of its going to leak negatively charged things are being in and could be used by the microbes in pushed to the anode and positively there although we have a disconnect we charged species to the cathode and that don't see when we have current we accelerates the flux of organics to this actually don't see as much being lost to anode and if you make some mathematical oxygen and so this is the rate that an simplifications here which are only open circuit reactor would be consuming slightly accurate I massaged it a little that CO D this is the rate when we have bit but you come up with something that current so you can see with current we says you know this could have about a can consume that Co D much faster and factor of 10 impact on the effective that actually reduces our loss to the diffusion coefficients in these background processes as well so we can electrical fields and so when they they remove the CO D we can take it away from run out of food the electrical field the aerobic microorganisms and we can starts to collapse as the electrical make electricity and the faster we make field starts to collapse you don't drive electricity the better off we are so food to the electrodes and it all just 8 stops and so this process becomes the second one and then out goes into something like a trickling filter you this first one to the second one and can remove C OD down to about 100 and if then out and then into the afm be our a you let it go even after you don't for our for our HRT and these two and generate electricity it kind of gets only a one-hour HRT hydraulic retention down to about 30 or 40 milligrams per time and that reactor and what you can liter but that's it and that's not see is that we could produce an effluent enough still to discharge it with these two reactors of less than so we originally thought well what we do twenty milligrams per liter in total with trickling filters to make them work solids less than a milligram per liter like activated sludge as we we put on because it's been filtered and we don't the solids contact process and it works need a clarifier so we produces as well as activated sludge and we could high-quality effluent suitable for water do that to a microbial fuel cell put on reuse we removed about half of the co D the solids contact it's basically in these MFCs and the rest in the AFM BR settling out solids and and sending them and the amount of electricity we in a loop to contact with the liquid or produced in the MFCs was about equal to we could hope that something else gets the electricity consumed in the AFM BR invented and this guy at Stanford Perry the fouling we got a little bit of McCarty who has retired still works and fouling this is how much back a sort of unfortunately still comes up with great pressure took to pull to put across that ideas because it's just not fair to the membrane we got a little rise quickly rest of us I mean why this guy can but even over a couple of months very retire and still come up with great little change in the transmembrane ideas he came up with this thing called pressure and Perry McCarty has told us the anaerobic membrane fluidized bed they've run their reactors for two years reactor and what that is is a way to without having to chemically clean that polish the effluent from his process but membrane which is amazing because a lot we looked at it to polish the effluent of these reactors need chemical cleaning from our MFC and here's how the AFM BR after just a few weeks to a couple of works it's really a lot of hollow fiber months we're continuing to go on in membranes with some activated carbon you these designs and I'll go through this can see the tube here and you're pulling really quickly just to give you a sense the waste water you pump it in here and of what it looks like you pull it through these fibers you can this was brushes very close to cathodes see these activated carbon particles with separators this is having more bashing up against these hollow fibers cathode per brush we found that and when they do that they help to scour independent of how we set this up the the membrane and so what you can do is actual variable that we needed was the drop down the co d that's very little hydraulic retention time the co D organic matter now here it's absorbed to removal in this is really set by the HRT the to the activated carbon it's being in these systems this to cathode setup degraded the activated carbon is actually produces more electrical power smashing against the fibers it's but in terms of wastewater treatment preventing fouling and you can treat the it's about HRT it's about the hydraulic wastewater and remove the co D so that retention time in that system that's the was our thought we set up some MFCs to predominant variable so now we've looked test this I won't go really into the at our generation to generation one details of this other than to say some would be that three electrode reactor had a protective cloth separator over generation two the cathode to try and keep it from you can see banks now of these anodes fouling the other one didn't and the one and a bank of a cathode so the idea is that had the separators after five you have a module of anodes a cathode months was working much better than the module there's one cathode on this side ones that didn't have that cloth so we one cathode on that side another round learned we need to keep something on of anodes the ideas you drop these that cathode to try and keep back modules of anodes and cathodes into the biological growth right on that cathode reactor and when you do that you can but with this setup so we have to train start to do something really interesting of MFCs so it goes into this one into this is a reactor that's you know you 9 can see is not very big you know it's different than some of those and Fong the size of a couple of books you could Jeong who just recently left my lab said take this out to a remote area and find I think I have this idea and of course a source of waste water and then with didn't happen that fast but I like to that you could wait for it charge your oversimplify here but she came back says cell phone and so a lot of places that I think I can get 115 watts per square need Sanitation also needs cell phone meter I said ok I'm listening chargers so we are working on that and she got up to 240 watts per square concept we are this is a sort of the meter of electrode and it's based on an generation 3 now this is multiple anodes idea of distilling ammonia out of water and multiple cathodes so kind of stay and REE injecting it into this system so tuned for that we're actually running the idea is to take waste heat and use this at a wastewater treatment plant it as a simple distillation process you because we pump it right from the plant make some solutions this side has no into our reactor now I have my ammonia that size has ammonia you create two-minute end and and I'll finish up a battery you discharge it at that power almost on time you never thought density when it stops you take the somebody could get through 77 slides in ammonia out and you put it in the other 50 minutes did you I might have gone a side and so that's that's kind of the little quickly so I just you know 10 newest crazy and wild idea so if you years ago people said you're crazy this want to invite me back for seminar in sounds crazy you know what are you doing ten years I'll tell you how it worked and and I said oh we're gonna have some out so conclusions we have these fun with this and I want to tell you fascinating microorganisms out there something else we're having fun with and that I that we're really enjoying that's salinity gradient energy wherever studying we're understanding a lot about the ocean wherever freshwater flows into the elect the ocean the energy that's dissipated Jen's we don't probably know nearly is like energy equivalent to that fresh enough about the electro tropes but we water going over a dam 250 meters high know we can use these electric Jen's and that's the Hoover Dam and we can also microbes to accomplish wastewater generate treatment at least generate electricity salinity gradients at industrial sites with inexpensive materials and then if we can use things like ammonium we give them a little help with this bicarbonate which you can distill out of post treatment process an AFM BR or water at 50 60 degrees C and create other technology certainly would work as salty solutions and so the technologies well we can treat the wastewater so to do this the best one is pressure we're at this final stage you know of retarded osmosis we've been playing MFCs you know it's a it's been well around with reverse electrodialysis a people say that every new technology lot there's a new technology was goes through this these three stages the invented just a few years ago called first stage is it can't be done so ten capacitive mixing which is the opposite years ago when I wrote a proposal to NSF of capacitive deionization and I won't and I said I'd like to turn a wastewater go into that another one we came up with treatment plant into a power plant they hydrogel expansion but this is the one I said it can't be done and they rejected wanted to do one slide on because all my proposal but they did give me a these are being looked at to capture the little bit of money and and they said salinity gradient energy and the fact is well you got to prove you can do it is that most of these are only producing okay so we went and we showed yes we can about one to at most a few watts per make electricity from wastewater and square meter of electrode one watt then that you get that second stage of that's like a Christmas tree light bulb the idea well okay it's possible but per square meter square meter of a love it's it's too expensive it's just it's electrode or square meter of membrane never gonna work the membrane cost one hundred a thousand too expensive nefi own platinum well not dollars a square meter you can't have gonna work and then you go and you build one watt per membrane area doesn't work these reactors and you start charging so we work we tried to come up with an cell phones and you know everybody says idea that might be a little bit oh yeah I said it was a good idea all 10 along I wasn't one of those naysayers oh out for two years but the signs are that no and in in water technologies we've we've had more citations per paper in had a few examples are Oh membranes for the past year than esnt has so keep our water desalination you want to fingers crossed and with that say thank desalinate water with a membrane are you you and if you have time to be happy crazy answer any questions you see people that'll never work they're way too upstream basically defecating in the expensive or MBRs you want to stick a river you have all manner of of garbage membrane in a tank of wastewater are you floating past you some of those crazy that's a stupidest I mean I I said mattresses sometimes dead rats it was a good idea all along maybe MFCs are the next one there are some companies trying to do that there too that got out early here are some companies trying to play catch-up and haven't heard much out of these guys in a while and I want to acknowledge my research group I've tried to get him to smile they wouldn't smile I said okay wave at me they all smiled look at that think you know pretty good so they're waving at you thank my sponsor my current sponsors syrup that's environmental restorations through Department of Defense I actually have some funding for the methanogens work through Stanford money through NREL and do II and just recently on these thermal batteries NSF my collaborators around the world who are also working to develop these technology at cows who's funded a lot of work for me at in Belgium at Newcastle and in China you know this has been a very large and collaborative effort now I couldn't come here without putting in at least the last minute plug for yes and tea letters I'm the editor well officially the deputy editor of esnt letters it's meant to be a very rapid turnaround format for shorter papers so the limit is three thousand words if you submit it for a regular research paper five thousand for a short review you typically will get your reviews back in two weeks and you will get that back with a notification of except minor revision or reject and if it's rejected you can be allowed to resubmit at your leisure or not but the average time to publication is about a little over a month so it's a very rapid publication form any tenure-track faculty going up for tenure thinking they need to get some publications that out fast might rethink this journal and of course establish a earlier in your career a shorter timeline but we've been very pleased with the papers we published we are we don't know what the impact factor is because you have to be 11