Aarathi 1

Ganesan Aarathi

Professor Ashutosh Mishra

Western Political Thought LE01SPL202

30 September 2014

Assignment 2 – A Comparison of the

Ideal States of Plato and Aristotle

Plato (428-347 B.C.E.) is remembered as one of the most influential

philosophers of all time. His teachings have laid the foundations for Western

philosophy and have inspired leagues of people around the world to question

their surroundings, to leave no stone unturned and to try and understand the

various connections that make up the world around them. Enthused by the

teachings of his formidable instructor Socrates1, Plato recognised the

discrepancies of the society that existed around him and drew up a blue print of

his ideal society characterised by his unique interpretations of the foundations of

Utopia.

Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) was Plato’s pupil and thanks to the pedigree of

his instructor, is remembered not even as a subordinate to Plato in terms of his

contributions to philosophy, but as his equal. Having attended the lectures of

1
“ARISTOTLE OF STAGIRUS – BIOGRAPHY.” European Graduate School:
Graduate &Postgraduate Studies. European Graduate School, n.d. Web. 28 Sept.
2014. <Http%3A%2F%2Fww.egs.edu%2Flibrary%2Faristotle%2Fbiography%2F>.
 Aarathi 2

Plato for over twenty years, Aristotle was well versed with Platonic philosophy 2

and his subsequent model of the Utopian state shares certain similarities with

that of Plato’s in some areas and differs sharply from it in others; in some areas

bears no resemblance to Plato’s at all. The purpose of this essay therefore is to

compare and contrast their ideal States and to understand the theoretical and

practical differences between them.

Plato’s ideal state is bound by the idea of justice, that things are in their

natural state and that people perform their duties to the best of their capacity.

But how does Plato decide what professions are best suited to an individual?

To understand Plato’s division of society, we must first understand his

theory of the Soul. According to Plato, the soul is divided into three: Reason,

Spirit and Appetite. Reason for Plato is of paramount importance, its’ existence in

humanity is interminable and its ultimate goal is to find the truth; Appetite and

Desire are more perishable, they exist within the present framework of time and

space and their respective desires are to find honour and material goods. While

Reason on its own is an independent entity, Appetite is subject to the conduct of

Reason while Spirit is seen as a natural ally of Reason3. The ideal Soul of the ideal

man is one in which Reason alone was present, however to find such a mortal

man is impossible. The next best alternative to the ideal Soul therefore is the

balanced Soul and such a soul is one in which Reason dominates, wielding equal

2
“PLATO – BIOGRAPHY.” European Graduate School: Graduate &Postgraduate
Studies. European Graduate School, n.d. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<http://www.egs.edu/library/plato/biography/>.
3
“Ancient Theories of Soul.” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Stanford
University, 23 Oct. 2003. Web. 27 Sept. 2014. <Http%3A%2F%plato.stanford.edu
%2Fentries%2Fancientsouls%2F%233.3>.
 Aarathi 3

authority over Spirit and Courage; the man with such a soul is the closest

imitation of the Idea of man45.

Therefore the nature of a man’s soul decided his place in society. Plato

divided society into three classes: artisans, auxiliaries and philosopher-kings.

The artisan’s soul was dominated by his Appetite for materialistic goods and he

was therefore destined to produce goods. The auxiliary’s soul was dominated by

Spirit and the Spirit within it was enough to summon up the Courage to defend

the State and its citizens. The philosopher-kings possessed the balanced Soul

enabling them to rule wisely over the ideal State; it is interesting to note that the

rulers of Plato’s ideal State are not perfect impressions of their Idea. Plato’s ideal

State therefore is actualised by each of these groups working towards their

individual occupation wholeheartedly and with complete dedication and to do

so, would lead to the immediate happiness and well being of one’s Soul 6.

Consequently any State in which people were prevented from doing what they

were naturally supposed to was one in which a change would have to be brought

about7.

4
Wayper, C.L. “How It All Began.” Teach Yourself Political Thought. New Delhi:
Surjeet Publications, 2008. 21. Print
5
Dorbolo, Jon. "Plato - The Dialogue Form - Republic." Great Philosophers. Oregon
State University, 2002. Web. 27 Sept. 2014.
<Http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Plato/plato_on_women
_in_the_ideal_state_part_I_the_context.html
6
“Plato –B.C. (427?)(347) – The Ideal State, The Dialectical Method, Educational
Programs, The Cultivation of Morals.” StateUniversity.com. State University, n.d.
Web. 27 Sept. 2014. <Http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/2326/Plato-
427-347-B-C-E-.html>.
7
Dorbolo, Jon. "Plato - The Dialogue Form - Republic." Great Philosophers. Oregon
State University, 2002. Web. 27 Sept. 2014.
<Http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Plato/plato_on_women
_in_the_ideal_state_part_I_the_context.html>.
 Aarathi 4

Considering that the fate of his ideal State lies in the hand of the

philosopher- kings Plato pays special attention to them. Their cultivated

education was an absolute necessity in order to give rise to a philosopher fit to

rule the State. The philosophers were to enter school at the ages of six to learn

reading, writing and counting. In typical Greek tradition, exercise and fitness

were of paramount importance and by the time they reached the age of eighteen,

they were expected to enrol in military and physical training. At the age of

twenty-one they began their higher studies and only by the time they reached

thirty were they ready to embark on their study of philosophy. It was around this

age as well that they started serving in the polis, becoming well versed in civil

matters and politics. This vigorous training in education continued until the age

of fifty, after which the philosopher-king was finally ready to rule the State 8. This

education was a necessity as the philosopher’s only desire was for knowledge

and consequently the state would not be overthrown by tyranny due to material

desires9. Most would assume that this system would be reserved for whatever

form of nobility that prevailed at the time however Plato believed that the

distribution of talent was non-genetic and that talent must be found in children

from other classes as well. Therefore Plato’s education system in his ideal State

was in the form of selective public education, whose foundation was based upon

8
“Plato on Education.” Infedorg. YMCA George William College, 8 May 1997. Web.
27 Sept. 2014. <Http://infed.org/mobi/plato-on-education/>.
9
Okpala, Ogochukwu. “Plato’s Republic vs. Democracy.” (n.d.):2 Neumann
University. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<Https://www.neumann.edu.academics/divisions/business/journal/review09/okpala/p
df>.
 Aarathi 5

the fact that a small minority of the population, because of their rigorous

education, were capable of ruling the state effectively10.

It is obvious that the men who belonged to the three strata of society

would require wives however upon what basis were these women divided into

these strata? It has to be remembered that the Greek culture completely

disregarded women, a fact consolidated by the sad truth that the forefathers of

democracy prohibited them from their fundamental right of voting. It would

seem that Plato following the design of the society he belonged to would have

given a misogynistic solution to the question posed, contrarily, it is here where

his most inspiring thought it produced: Plato believed that women should be

educated to the same degree as men and with the same quality of education.

Plato according to Jon Dorbolo, saw no difference between men and women,

apart from their bodies, that validated inequality in terms of the education that

they rightfully deserved11. Such opinions are revolutionary in today’s world and

to see them emerge from humanity over two thousand years is truly amazing. In

fact Plato’s support for equality between the sexes usurps his philosophy in

determining his greatness as a man for many.

Although many blindly associate the Greeks with democracy, it should be

noted that Plato’s ideal State is not a democracy: it is a society ruled by a leader,

who for all practical purposes, they have no part in choosing. Plato was well
10
“Plato’s Educational Philosophy.” n.d. 132-133. University of Mumbai. Web. 28
September 2014. <Http://www.mu.ac.in/myweb_test/MA
%20EducationPhilosophy/Chapter-11/pdf>.

11
Dorbolo, Jon. "Plato - The Dialogue Form - Republic." Great Philosophers. Oregon
State University, 2002. Web. 27 Sept. 2014.
<Http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Plato/plato_on_women
_in_the_ideal_state_part_I_the_context.html
 Aarathi 6

known of his criticism of democracy, a system of government characterised by

the participation of all the people in the State, as he believed that only a few were

capable of making wise decisions: the philosophers, as their souls were

dominated by reason or rationality they would consequently be able to rule the

state better. His State is also the antithesis of Capitalism, as he believed if money

and wealth were not the priorities of society, then all the members of society

would be on equal footing12.

While Plato was indeed a brilliant philosopher his State was flawed and

when viewed by the author, seems highly unnatural. Plato credits humanity with

an unreasonably high moral nature and relies too much on the assumption that

people in their desired occupations will be just. Another flaw in his State is the

concentration of such immense power in the hands of a few. While Plato has

chosen the idea of the philosopher-king for the inherent rationality and desire

for knowledge that such a character would possess, he cannot take away from

the fact that man is inherently an animal that constantly desires power. This

monopoly of power for a single individual would eventually result in tyranny,

and this is where his State fails in comparison with Democracy. His State is based

upon rigid classes and a puzzling disregard for the economic strata of society, upon

nationalism and totalitarianism, upon a lack of freedom for its citizens and the

expectation of a high moral standard from them; such fabulous contradictions only

12
Okpala, Ogochukwu. “Plato’s Republic vs. Democracy.” (n.d.):5 Neumann
University. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<Https://www.neumann.edu.academics/divisions/business/journal/review09/okpala/p
df>.
 Aarathi 7

elucidate the fact that such a State could never exist in the world that we know13, and

it seems prudent that it continues to exist in its own world, independent of ours.

This essay has so far discussed the ideal State from Plato’s perspective. Now,

it is Aristotle’s views that are taken into consideration, felicitating the comparison

between the two.

Aristotle does use the concept of Ideas in his philosophy. Plato believes that

every object has its own Idea existing in another realm, independent of time and

space, Aristotle on the other hand, does not share this view. According to him, the

Idea of a particular object can be the Idea for anything, that is, when an object is

created it is not characterised by Plato’s version of its Idea, it is simply characterised

by its producer, who introduces the Idea of it appropriately during its creation14. While

Aristotle had an interpretation of theory of Ideas, unlike Plato, it did not form the

basis of his ideal State.

The polis were small sovereign city-states, most of them having a population

of less than twenty thousand. Their sovereignty and small size meant that the form of

politics practiced here was extremely vigorous, inclusive and diverse. The impact of

the political discourse that occurred here was felt by every citizen15 and this city-state

13
Okpala, Ogochukwu. “Plato’s Republic vs. Democracy.” (n.d.):8 Neumann
University. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<Https://www.neumann.edu.academics/divisions/business/journal/review09/okpala/p
df>.

14
Duignan, Brian. “Aristotle.” The 100 Most Influential Philosophers of All Time,
New York, NY: Britannica Educational Pub. In Association with Rosen Educational
Services, 2010. 50-51. Print.
15
Wayper, C.L. “How It All Began.” Teach Yourself Political Thought. New Delhi:
Surjeet Publications, 2008. 6. Print
 Aarathi 8

formed the heart of Aristotle’s philosophy on the Ideal State. Please note that the

author from here will use the term ‘State’ interchangeably with polis.

For Aristotle, the State was paramount, for humans could not be fully

developed unless they lived in the State, as both social and political faculties were

developed here. The State therefore was Nature’s way of nurturing these abilities

within society and for Aristotle, any man who didn’t live in the State was not a man at

all. Like Plato, he endorsed the organic view of the State, putting the importance of

the State before that of the individual citizen16. This was justified by the following

explanation: the household was more important than the individual and that the State

more important than the household and therefore, the State was of more importance

than the individual17. Again echoing Plato, Aristotle believes that there is a great level

of interdependency between the State and its people in determining its success and

that the welfare of the state is indistinguishable from the welfare of the people; for

him the State and the individual were complementary18. It was only through the State

that ultimate happiness and goodness could be achieved; therefore, while justice binds

Plato’s State, Aristotle’s State is bound by its own necessity for the development of

society.

Plato’s idea of education in his ideal State has been described as ‘selective

public education’, his pupil however disagrees with such a system. Aristotle

supported education for all, or social education. For Aristotle, education was not to be

Velasquez, Manuel. “Social and Political Philosophy.” Philosophy: A Text With

16

Readings. S.L.: Wadsworth Pub. Co I, 2010. 530. Print.

17
Connole, Joseph. “The Polis in Aristotle’s Politics.” Federalist Publicola. Joseph
Connole. 24 March, 2008. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
18
Wayper, C.L. “How It All Began.” Teach Yourself Political Thought. New Delhi:
Surjeet Publications, 2008. 39-40. Print
 Aarathi 9

restricted to the children of the minority wealthy community, as to do so would result

in an uneducated and unaware population, which would in turn affect the functioning,

and health of the State. Like Plato he agrees that reading, writing, counting, sports and

music of are of paramount importance, and these subjects are known as illiberal

subjects (however unlike Plato, he puzzlingly disregards the higher studies of

mathematics). Aristotle believed that the constant gain of knowledge and education

would lead to virtue, or the attainment of intellectual strength, and this could be

achieved by studying the illiberal subjects. Any form of manual labour that focused

on monetary matters was considered to a liberal activity and to partake in liberal

activities would hinder the process of reaching intellectual superiority. Aristotle

viewed such activities with complete disdain, calling them “vulgar” and “common”.

Therefore a proper education was the only way to nurture man’s nature in order to

achieve the “good”, and since the healthy functioning of the State depended on

spiritually and intellectually enlightened individuals, the provision of education was a

fundamental duty of Aristotle’s State19.

By submitting to the organic theory of the State, Aristotle propagated the

inherent inequality between different sections of society as natural. His belief was that

it was simply natural for some people to be ruled and for some to be natural leaders20.

Plato’s state, with its philosopher-kings, corroborates this fact and the only point of

difference between the two philosophies is that Plato was a propagator of equality

between the sexes in his ideal State and Aristotle followed the typical sexist attitude

that prevailed at the time.

19
Finlay, A.B., Ph.D. “EDUCATION, ARISTOTLE (and
Plato).”www.tonyfinlay.com, Tony Finlay, n.d. Web. 28 Sept. 2014. <Http&3A&2F
%2Fwww.tonyfinlay.co.uk%2Faristotle.html>.
20
Wayper, C.L. “How It All Began.” Teach Yourself Political Thought. New Delhi:
Surjeet Publications, 2008. 40. Print
 Aarathi 10

Aristotle was of the opinion that women were naturally inferior to men. For

him, women were responsible for nothing regarding reproduction; the contribution

was all of the males. He compares men and women to his version of Ideas, with

women being the producers and men the form that is created. To cite an example: a

sculptor being the woman and a man being the block of marble21. While the creation

of a statue requires the contributions of both, the finished form of the statue is

appreciated more than the process that goes into making it. Therefore Aristotle relates

men with form and women with matter22. His disdain for womankind was so potent,

that he referred to all women as “mutilated males”. Consequently it can be deduced

that women simply had no place in Aristotle’s State, and to even consider their

obtaining an education would have been ridiculous in Aristotle’s eyes. Therefore

while Plato’s ideal State was not necessarily a place of complete equality regarding

the treatment of women, it was a much more friendly and inclusive place than the one

that Aristotle proposed.

The State that Aristotle proposed was ruled, according to him, by the

“straight” form of government; democracy on the other hand, was the “erroneous”

form of government. Aristotle agreed with Plato’s view that the rule of the

philosopher-king was the most ideal form of rule, however he was able to

acknowledge the fact that the view itself was steeped too deeply in idealism to be

viable in the real world. Another form of government named “polity”, a mixture of

both oligarchy as well as democracy, is combined with kingship giving rise to a

21
“Plato’s Feminism: A Discussion of Women in Ancient Philosophy.” Sewanee
Senior Philosophy Essays. Sewanee: The University of the South, 27 Fev.2006. Web.
28 Sept. 2014. <Http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sewanee.edu%2Fphilosophy%2FCapstone
%2F2002%2FMartin.html>.
22
Allen, Prudence. The Concept of Woman. London: Eden Press, 1985. 92. Print.
 Aarathi 11

mixture of the two and it is this hybrid that is ideal for the ruling of Aristotle’s State.

This system of governance is optimal as it is multi faceted: it is a regime with

numerous regimes attached to it, similar to the federal republics seen in today’s world.

It allows the different regimes to participate in the regime of the State itself while

maintaining their independence, keeping in line with Aristotle’s views of the

participation of citizens in the State, therefore, his State while not democratic in its

entirety, is far more democratic than Plato’s23.

Both Aristotle and Plato’s visions of Utopia, when viewed with a modern

mindset, seem autocratic and unappealing and one wonders why they are given any

relevance at all. But the crucial factor when viewing them is not to view them with a

modern mindset; it is, to borrow Plato’s methodology, to view their existence

objectively. These states while unachievable in the real world, within themselves are

structurally perfect and it is the sheer attention to detail in their construction that is to

be marvelled at. It is this perfection that has influenced so many greats, its very

existence characterises the whole field of philosophy and the work that it produces; it

is this perfection, that has blessed these two philosophers with unquestionable,

untarnished immortality.

23
Connole, Joseph. “Plato and Aristotle’s Regimes: Republic and Politics.”
Federalist Publicola. Joseph Connole. 15 Oct, 2007. Web. 28 Sept, 2014.
 Aarathi 12

Works Cited

1. Allen, Prudence. The Concept of Woman. London: Eden Press, 1985. 92. Print.

2. “Ancient Theories of Soul.” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Stanford

University, 23 Oct. 2003. Web. 27 Sept. 2014. <http%3A%2F
%plato.stanford.edu%2Fentries%2Fancientsouls%2F%233.3>.

3. “ARISTOTLE OF STAGIRUS – BIOGRAPHY.” European Graduate

School: Graduate &Postgraduate Studies. European Graduate School, n.d.
Web. 28 Sept. 2014. <Http%3A%2F%2Fww.egs.edu%2Flibrary%2Faristotle
%2Fbiography%2F>.

4. Connole, Joseph. “Plato and Aristotle’s Regimes: Republic and Politics.”

Federalist Publicola. Joseph Connole. 15 Oct, 2007. Web. 28 Sept, 2014.

5. Connole, Joseph. “The Polis in Aristotle’s Politics.” Federalist Publicola.

Joseph Connole. 24 March, 2008. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
 Aarathi 13

6. Dorbolo, Jon. "Plato - The Dialogue Form - Republic." Great Philosophers.

Oregon State University, 2002. Web. 27 Sept. 2014.
<Http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Plato/plato_on_
women_in_the_ideal_state_part_I_the_context.html

7. Duignan, Brian. “Aristotle.” The 100 Most Influential Philosophers of All

Time, New York, NY: Britannica Educational Pub. In Association with Rosen
Educational Services, 2010. 50-51. Print.
8. Finlay, A.B., Ph.D. “EDUCATION, ARISTOTLE (and
Plato).”www.tonyfinlay.com, Tony Finlay, n.d. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<Http&3A&2F%2Fwww.tonyfinlay.co.uk%2Faristotle.html>.

9. “Plato –B.C. (427?)(347) – The Ideal State, The Dialectical Method,

Educational Programs, The Cultivation of Morals.” StateUniversity.com.
State University, n.d. Web. 27 Sept. 2014.
<Http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/2326/Plato-427-347-B-C-
E-.html>.

10. “PLATO – BIOGRAPHY.” European Graduate School: Graduate

&Postgraduate Studies. European Graduate School, n.d. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<Http://www.egs.edu/library/plato/biography/>.

11. “Plato on Education.” Infedorg. YMCA George William College, 8 May 1997.
Web. 27 Sept. 2014. <Http://infed.org/mobi/plato-on-education/>.
 Aarathi 14

12. “Plato’s Educational Philosophy.” n.d. 132-133. University of Mumbai.

Web. 28 September 2014. <Http://www.mu.ac.in/myweb_test/MA
%20EducationPhilosophy/Chapter-11/pdf>.

13. “Plato’s Feminism: A Discussion of Women in Ancient Philosophy.”

Sewanee Senior Philosophy Essays. Sewanee: The University of the South, 27
Fev.2006. Web. 28 Sept. 2014. <Http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sewanee.edu
%2Fphilosophy%2FCapstone%2F2002%2FMartin.html>.

14. Okpala, Ogochukwu. “Plato’s Republic vs. Democracy.” n.d. Neumann

University. Web. 28 Sept. 2014.
<Https://www.neumann.edu.academics/divisions/business/journal/review09/o
kpala/pdf>.

15. Wayper, C.L. “How It All Began.” Teach Yourself Political Thought. New
Delhi: Surjeet Publications, 2008. Print.

16. Velasquez, Manuel. “Social and Political Philosophy.” Philosophy: A Text

With Readings. S.L.: Wadsworth Pub. Co I, 2010. 530. Print.
Aarathi 15