Female Porn Providers and

Internet Services

Claire Butkus with CJ and Susanna

he following ’trialogue’ comprises an edited exchange between

journalist and researcher Claire Butkus and CJ and Susanna, two female
porn site operators. Spellings and punctuations are as in the original
communications. CJ and Susanna contacted Convergence after
receiving a forwarded copy of the call for papers for this issue. Their
views and professional experience provides a fresh input into a field of
research and discussion usually dominated by writers who adopt a
distanced and/or ’disinterested’ approach to the phenomenon of online
pornography and the pleasures and opportunities it offers.
Claire: Why did you become interested in participating in this ’Internet
and Sexuality’ issue of Convergence?
Susanna: Over time our 4women marketing community has often
engaged in discussions about many aspects of porn and women. We
often point out articles to each other that were written about our area of
the net or about how women like or dislike porn/erotica and there is so
much misinformation published by people that, to all of our knowledge,
have never marketed to women.
CJ: Susanna took the words out of my mouth!! For several years, a
group of us have been working really hard to show the adult industry that
there are ENOUGH women interested in adult material that it is a viable
business market ... There is also an element of *shudder* feminism
.... ...

in this issue, however I believe women ARE different to men (thank the
Lord!!) and that our differences are often our strengths, not weaknesses
... As for contributing to the ’Internet and Sexuality’ issue of
Convergence, I guess all of these answers are more focused towards the
women’s market, simply because it is more interesting! Men and porn is
nothing new ... erection need for visual stimulation masturbation
= = =

ejaculation. This formula provides tens of thousands of impulse sales to

porn sites every day ... there is no ’secret’ to marketing porn to men.
Publish it and they will CUM!)
Claire: How would you describe the general concept of your site(s)?
Susanna:I have one site that has the concept of erotica for couples
being relationship enhancing. Couples-sex.com is a site ideally suited for
couples because I provide a little of everything while including extras like
foreplay games and ezines about kama sutra etc. I also have an adult

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verification service for women. 4womenavs.com’s concept is that the

hardcore porn is put behind a membership/verification process thereby
keeping the net clear from free hardcore porn. I also have many sites
that are not for women.
CJ: We started out with Purve.com, which was intended to cover a little
bit of everything until we found out what our readers liked the best. Since
July 1998 we’ve developed unique monthly content based on the
requests of our readers. We have a fairly broad set of rules when
selecting the features we include in our sites. Every feature must be
women positive, or the woman in the ’act’ must be enjoying herself ...

whatever she may be doing.

Men have had access to photos of genitals readily at hand for our whole
lifetime, and yet I received an email from a woman when I launched
Purve.com saying ’Could you please show me a photo of what and
uncircumcised penis looks like, i’ve never seen one’. Men have all
learned to identify the ’pink bits’ by age 14, but women are still left
wondering about the mysterious penis ...
I also have a network of general adult sites aimed at men or couples I ...

spend 60 per cent+ of my time on my women’s sites, but the general

adult sites maintain themselves with software designed for the lazy. I work
very clearly in 2 types of Adult Entertainment porn for the penis and ...

porn for the brain.

Claire: What types of images do you consider to be women positive and
why? What images are not women-positive? And are ’porn for the penis
and porn for the brain’ equally valid fantasy images that just happen to
be different for different genders? Can we make value judgments about
how traditional pornographic images, directed at and consumed by men,
influence society’s perceptions about women?
Susanna: Well I choose to use the terminology ’sex and relationship
positive’ when looking at images ... Obviously if you look at images one
at a time some will be
pleasing more to women and some to men
depending on content but we look at images as sets or as videos...then
you can please both the man and women.
’Sex-positive’ means images that show ordinary people not pornstars.
They show real believable scenes vs. odd scenes like women wearing
high heel shoes to bed. ’Relationship-positive’ is very similar, in that, any
erotica, images included, that can be used as a tool for a relationship
enhancer is a good thing. Couples who can sit together enjoying porn
on the net and frustrated partners who can masturbate or warm up first
before getting into sex with their partner are examples of relationship
enhancers.
While we do not like to sit and judge what women dislike about what is
available for them to view (because lots of women will like what they
see), we must do so in order to decide what a ’woman- positive’ image
is. In this process we look at what is being portrayed and we decide if
there is anything missing. We have noted many things missing. We call it
the focus. Focus in the images that are online for male enjoyment is

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always on the female. She looks into the camera so you might get a
glimpse of her ecstasy. She opens up her pussy so you can stare at her
most private sex organs. You see the sex from the view of looking at her
and her sex organs. ’Women-positive’ images would show focus on the
male sex organs, the male enjoyment and oddly enough, the male face.
Just a year ago you could not find pictures of couples having sex where
you see the entire male. The head would be cut off every time in full
body shots.
There are other things to consider with images, again as a whole instead
of singular, like the scene. Men viewing porn need no visual stimulation
with regard to the scene. We find that a nicely done scene helps a
woman to imagine a complete picture of what might be going on in the

images. Possibly she is in the mood for a romantic steamy encounter,

possibly she wants a risky outdoor encounter, maybe she wants to have
sex anywhere but the bedroom or she wants the scene to tell a story of
adventure to her. Props (even clothing) help with the scene and help to
tell a story.
Finally, the actions of the people in the images matter too We have ...

managed to affect the adult photography industry with our requests for
sets that start with clothed models. Just a year or so ago there were few
such sets available.
Now the couples ... start with the foreplay and seduce each other in
playful ways (although there is a long way to go yet on ideas for this)
they do oral sex on each other. A ’woman-positive’ set will have as much
focus on her oral pleasure as the man’s.
Sets usually have to be edited to remove some of the over abundance of
blowjobs and sometimesI will remove the scenes with the male cumming
on the face of the woman. Probably 95 per cent of the time I remove
this.I do market to couples and its possible that due to the constant
barrage of such pictures in porn, men like these scenes. I do not
consider this a ’women-positive’ image in any way. It is something done
TO her vs. something done with her. My theory of the facial shot is that
in pictures, photographers felt it necessary to ’show’ the orgasm. So,
men cum on women. It is obvious then that the man has orgasmed.
There is no similar way to show a woman orgasming so we don’t obsess
over it.I do not believe obsessed over cumming
men ever on a woman’s
body as sexy before porn pictures made it popular.
CJ: ’Women-positive’ porn, in my opinion, excludes all material where
the woman is not in control of the situation, not enjoying the situation or
participating in the act without consent. For example, if a woman’s face
is covered in cum with her hair being pulled so she’ll open her mouth
further, we do not believe this to be ’women-positive’ porn.
I think pornography responsible for society’s attitude towards
is LESS
women than the fashion
industry, music industry & women’s sports. Every
area of our society uses a woman’s sexuality to ’sell’ their product, to
both men and women. To focus on the porn industry’s involvement in
-society’s perception of women is futile, because without porn there would

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still be magazine’s with size 8 stick figures in bikini’s that teach women
how to give a better blowjob. Give me some down and durty sex any day
over an article on how to hide my cellulite during sex. Instead of focusing
on the negative effects pornography *may* have on women in society, I

prefer to concentrate on developing a place where adult entertainment is

sexy, sensual and ’women-positive’.
Claire: What are some examples of the types of ’misinformation’ you
see online about the issue of internet ~;rotica~ What types of comments
do you take issue with and why?
Susanna: Examples of types of misinformation:
-

Women will not pay for porn site memberships

-

Women will be bothersome as a member ie. more vocal, more

challenging. Photographers feel that its a bother to make the kinds of
erotic images women would want and only ask for more info after
‘

we have bothered them about making porn for women

Gay male pictures are not appropriate for women as they often
focus on positions that women would not admire such as a man on
his back with his legs up and a toy up his behind
I take issue with comments that suggest that there is no porn appropriate
for women on the net. It is solely misinformed writers who do not bother
to even look because we are not hard to find. They assume we put no
extra effort into our sites to make them women/couples friendly...

CJ : There is a great deal of mis-information available about women’s

reactions to adult material - some of this comes from women being
reluctant to be honest about their experiences when confronted by a
personal question like ’do you masturbate to porn’. The beauty of online
erotica is the ability to remain anonymous, you don’t have to tell your
neighbour or best friend if you masturbated to a live video or fantasised
about being with one of the characters. We conduct many anonymous
surveys on our web sites, and our results are very different to the answers
women give verbally. We *know* that many women like adult
entertainment.
You can see a couple of examples of a recent discussion at

http://www.womenseroticanetwork.com/ubb/Foruml /HTML/OQ~~9$.html
which is in regards to
http://www.gof uckyourself.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1236387
Claire: CJ, I’m interested in the comment you made of ’there is also an
element of *shudder*
.... feminism in this issue’. What is your
...

perception (both CJ and Susanna) of the role of ’feminism’ in the

creation of erotica for women?

Susanna: My perception is that feminism has no role in the creation of

erotica for women. I dislike with a passion any kind of naming and
herding practices .... We are all individuals and we all have our own
voices. Because my actions and my thoughts may be similar to someone
who calls themselves feminists is of no concern to me I am aware that ...

others still use the term as CJ has chosen to do. She even chose to

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quality her use of the term with the *shudder* statement.I will be
interested to hear her thoughts on this.
One person’s definition of feminism is not another’s ...I do not believe
that we should tell women what they like (in porn) and feel that if we
actually were embracing feminism we would be doing that. We would be
using our sites as vehicles to teach women that they are being oppressed
by the other porn sites out there. We would be telling them to boycott
and speak out etc etc etc Feminism may have paved the way for me to
...

be free to have my own business, to conduct myself freely in this

male-oriented (so far) profession and to command respect from both
men and women peers and members.I did say ’may have’. My actions
are simply to teach women that they too can enjoy porn if they find what

they like. My actions are to teach women that enjoying sex and sensuality
is not a bad thing as some may have been lead to believe simply by the
lack of availability of porn for women, or by community standards.
I do not make anti-male porn statements. I believe there is a place for
both male and female erotica ...I do not use any different ’feminine’
skills to make my porn sites.I am not a feminist.I am female.I am a
webmaster. Male webmasters should be using the same marketing skills
to make their sites. We evaluate the market we try to find what is not
already being over marketed and in the process we find out what people
want. Although there is a kind of enlightenment that women might go
thru upon joining one of our sites and seeing that there is porn for
women and many more women are enjoying it, I think that is only a

positive aspect of my role as webmaster/site owner.I am a marketer not

a feminist.

CJ: WhenI think of feminism,I think of the women who send me abusive
emails about my contribution to the degradation of women’s rights in
society.I feel like this argument is made up of 2 sides and a very big
brick wall that we keep hitting our heads against. There are man hating
feminists and feminist hating feminists - 1 kind talks & rants a lot, the
other kind works hard.
Claire: Susanna, in one of your responses you discuss how the focus in
pornographic images has traditionally emphasised imagery that is
stimulating for men. You explain:
Focus in the images that are online for male enjoyment is always on
the female. She looks into the camera so you might get a glimpse of
her ecstasy. She opens up her pussy so you can stare at her most
private sex organs. You see the sex from the view of looking at her
and her sex organs. ’Women -positive’ images would show focus on
the male sex organs, the male enjoyment and oddly enough, the
male face ....

How has stereotypical pornography traditionally aimed at ’male

enjoyment’ (as you describe above), which we are familiar with from
magazines like Playboy, Penthouse, etc. and which still seems to
comprise a lot of the pornography available on the internet (though this
is obviously changing), affected society’s current perceptions of sexual
_norms and roles for men and women? (When I say the history of

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pornographic imagery,I mean the total of all the images we hove been
seeing -far 30 or more years now. ) In what ways do yov think reversing
the camera view, i.e. showing the male face, organs, etc. may change
how the viewer (female or otherwise) relates to the images they see and
the dynamics of the sexuality portrayed?
Susanna: Showing the male body parts and male facial expressions will
appeal to women. As far as dynamics of the sexuality portrayed the ...

dynamic ... that is missing would be male ecstasy and the thought that
the male also has pleasure when he gives pleasure.
Traditional pornographic images focused solely on the male enjoyment
of sex make it seem that women do not enjoy sex and that sex is ’done to
them’. There is a (hopefully passing) trend towards sites that take pictures
of wild drunk girls at Mardi Gras, Spring break, or drugged or drunk ...

in some bar. [These images] imply that they become easy to have sex
with or [are easy] to just take sex from... Our for-women porn is based
on the fact that women like sex too. We try to balance the scales with

images AND ALSO articles, text, stories, movies, games etc. that depict
women’s pleasures or shared pleasures. The impression society might
very well get is that women are sexual at the request or demand of men
(ex. playboy bunnies) and that they never have the desire for sex or to
dominate men or take from them pleasure, use them for pleasure. While
it is not the way women are brought up and possibly not in every
women’s nature, some women do like to think of men as sexual objects
there for our pleasure.
CJ : The effect of this on society, I believe, is that women will become
more familiar with organs that traditionally have seemed scary or foreign.
For example, one of the first emails I received when I launched
Purve.com was from a woman who had never seen an uncircumcised
penis. She was asking if I could send her a picture of an uncut penis, so
she could see what one looked like. Many women go through life afraid
of the penis, quite simply because we don’t see them in our face from a
young age. Young boys (and many young girls) come across a copy of
playboy or penthouse and start learning about what each female organ
does and how it relates to our sexuality. Where young boys are shown
photos of women and taught how to please themselves with these
images, young girls also look at photos of other women and are taught
how to please men with those organs. Of all the magazines dedicated to
young men and women, there are none which contain information on
how to please a woman sexually - magazines aimed at young women
contain more information on how to please a man than they do on how
to please themselves, with articles like ’10 positions to hide cellulite’ and
’101 ways to light his fire’. This isn’t just an issue of pornographic
imagery, it’s [an issue of] an overall equality of sexual education leading
up to pornography at the most extreme end of the scale.
Claire: How does the idea of the creating the overall ’scene’ or
complete erotic picture and story-telling vs. straight graphic imagery
relate to our understanding of female sexuality and enjoyment of erotica?
_Susanna: I think it sets up intimacy vs. sex. If you include the scene a

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woman’s imagination can go wild with thoughts of intimacy and love vs.
straight sex for the purpose of orgosm.I would like to add that there are
a lot of men who would like such imagery ... In my couples sex site I try
to give that ... kind of imagery ...I never look at a set and say ’wow
what a great blowjob scene’, instead, I look at a set and say ’wow that’s
a different background setting or props or costumes’. Often men will say

they are interested in lingerie sites as well and do not want to see sex
images at all.
CJ: The common mistake when marketing to women is assuming that we
are all going to be the same - programmed to like either option a or

option b. Personally, I like scenes with story telling sometimes and other
times I like down and dirty smut pics. In general, women are stereotyped
to like stories and fantasy, making those who DO enjoy ’smut’ feel as if
they are somehow different to other women. Why can’t a woman like
both? My goal has always been to make each individual woman feel like
their desires are normal, no matter how they like their erotica served.
Claire: What facets of female sexuality do you think hove not been
explored?
Susanna:I would not say there are facets not explored. Every woman is
on a journey in her life. While a young boy of 9 starts to play with himself
a girl might not actually touch herself till her late twenties. I think this is

changing ,.. as peoples attitudes change about women and their

sexuality. I think the young girls of today will buy their first vibrator with
their first apartment instead of when they are in their thirties. The women
coming up today will be much more experienced with their own bodies
and their own orgasms. I think they will do it much earlier in their lives
than women of my age (I am 40) did.
CJ: (no response on this question)
Claire: Have your viewers suggested any images or features that you did
not expect or that are not associated with what we traditionally believe
women will find sexually appealing?

Susanna:I do not get feedback on images that are missing.

CJ: Once I had gay voyeur camera in my site, in men’s locker rooms
and toilets. I rotate features regularly, and when this particular feature
was removed from the site I received multiple emails from women asking
where the feature had gone. I was hesitant to include the feature
originally, because I thought there was no way a woman could find a
man attractive while he was taking a pee. There are many assumptions
about women that have quite unexpected exceptions.
Claire: How has the internet as a new medium for pornography,
changed the industry and our view of sexuality?
Susanna: The internet changed pornography by making it very easy to
see naked bodies and sexual acts. It’s everywhere. I do not think anyone
needs to purchase magazines anymore. In fact you should not have to
-purchase into any pay sites either. Anything you ... want you can get free.

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How has it changed sexuality?I think that anyone who wants information
on intimacy, sexual growth and sexual problems, ideas and tips and even

toys or sex enhancement drugs will easily be able to get them because of
the internet. There is no excuse to a poor sex life anymore. The internet
makes it very easy to help oneself and one’s relationship. Younger
couples could very well be educated much quicker because of
information they can easily run across on the net. The drawbacks could
be that people will get into stranger kinds of sex because of what they
see on the net. If the thought of threesomes and group sex and swinging
is at all a turn on it might become more widespread. This is already
happening in Europe in such countries as the Netherlands. I have very
little opinion about the effects of a new kind of relationship that would be
much more open to other partners other than it will be different.
There is an upside to more information on sex. Example women will not
go thru life without having orgasms and think that its just the way it is.
Women and men might be more willing to try certain things like anal sex
or strap on sex if armed with more information on it. I personally see

many more men willing and desiring to explore anal stimulation. Things
are changing for them too.

The internet has also changed from the supply end of things as well. A
lot more people can call themselves porn photographers. A lot more
gals can have control of their own image distribution (amateur gal sites
are everywhere). It’s no longer about just the beautiful people. Now,
everyday men and women are making money off porn.
CJ: There are two mainareas where the internet has benefited women’s

sexuality. Censorship and Anonymity. Australian lNomen’s Forum

magazine went out of business because they ran out of things to talk
about due to the excessive censorship of articles. Pictures of women’s
vaginas were censored, despite the fact that they were illustrating an
article on sexually transmitted diseases. The rules on the internet are
confused due to it being a global medium, but in general adults are able
to access material which would traditionally be censored by a print
magazine, by using credit card verification. Sexual education should be
readily available and uncensored, and the internet has a big contribution
to this. Another advantage for women has been the ability to remain
anonymous - to ask what they feel is a ’stupid’ question without feeling
’stupid’, to stare at that funny looking male genitalia and become
familiar with its ’bits’, to read, to fantasise and to learn about their own
sexual reactions to erotic imagery. The internet, for women, is the Hustler
of the Ot7s.

Claire: In what way(s) has the internet enhanced or, conversely, limited
the exploration of female sexuality?

Susanna: - information is readily available to women about their

bodies and about orgasms
-

new products are available and easy to order for women’s orgasm
- enhancement

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there is always someone somewhere that you can talk anonymously

to about your relationship and about sex
-

a woman can read the viewpoints of a million other women, real

women not just the thoughts of the writers for vogue or any other
’supposedly for women magazine’ real women do not have ulterior
agendas when they speak out ...

seeing images reading erotica, etc. just makes ya think more about
your sexuality
-

women can be much more sexual and much more free to explore
their sexuality because of the anonymity of the internet
CJ: (no response on this question)
Claire: Do you see your work producing ’women-positive’ images for
female-oriented sites as countering the traditional stereotypes of female
sexuality that anti-porn feminists would argue are disempowering to
women because they portray women as ’submissive’ or ’degraded’?

Susanna: WhileI agree there are some sites that portray women as
submissive I also realise there are a lot of women who are submissive.
Painting us all as submissive will not work of course. I do not feel that
’women’ as a species are threatened by porn depicting models ’liking
cum all over their faces’. I feel that you give power away and to say that
the male porn somehow makes all women submissive would be giving
way too much credit or power to what men do to women. I feel we all
have our own power and can make our own judgments as to whether we
want to be submissive or not. Some women want to be submissive to a
man.I believe you’re trying to ask if we are raising a group of young
men that will believe that they can take sex from women just because that
is what they see on the net.I think that we might be giving them the
wrong impression about a lot of things like the fact [that] women smile
brightly at you when you cum on their faces or that women love it when
they have large penises in their asses :DI also feel that these same boys
will learn pretty quickly when they have a girlfriend, what is acceptable.
WhatI would be more concerned about is self-image of the girls coming
up because asI have said before, each of these girls gives away power
as she sees fit. Sometimes there is forced submission like when a woman
is overpowered and raped this is another issue.I am speaking only now
of a girl’s ... image of herself. If she was to date a guy who told her how
much he liked the thought of cumming on her face she will make the
choice to do this thereby keeping her power and not giving away
anything. A girl who feels as though she must let her boyfriend do this to
her or else she will lose this boy (and that thought bothers her enough to
warp her decisions) is at risk of a self-esteem problem. This girl has
obviously been raised to feel that she needs to compromise herself to
have a male in her life. This is not a porn issue. This is a societal issue.
How she was raised in her family with say the equality of expectations.
Something like a family policy of boys go to university and girls to
college affect that very fragile esteem. Something like very attractive and
cool and hip magazines that focus on weight issues (anyone over 120

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lbs is a pig who wont be able to get a man for her life either) and the list
of ways society harms girls goes on and on.I think giving weight to the
porn images somehow warping society is giving too much credit to them.
If my theory is right that women
hold the control and power, then for the
last 30 or more
years when the porn was in magazines and movies,
women were not affected as much as men. The men learned soon

enough if they wanted a gal in their life they cannot treat them like the
gals in the pictures/movies. Women were affected very much by the other
outside forces I mentioned above.
The BONUS of the internet and the pictures that are seen there is that
there is so much of it. There is also so much to read that a gal can
always find gurl positive stuff which should empower her even more! I
really do not buy the argument that the porn on the net is going to harm
society.I do believe that it opens up sexuality like never before for both
men and women. I think women especially will find their power thru their
online adult experiences....I have gotten to know a lot of amateur gals
lately andI have so much admiration for them. They LOVE what they do
...
teasing men posing for them
... in some cases it’s all about money
...

to get them thru school, in others it is a job and for others still they really
get off on it. Most of them are exhibitionists andI really feel good about
them running their own sites and making their own decisions as to where
their images will be displayed.I don’t feel so good for guys or gals who
make $100.00 for an hour’s work and they have no control over who
ends up posting their pictures and how they are used.
OhI ignored your word degraded. Are women degraded by porn? In
some sites, yes. They are very few. A woman should NEVER EVER be told
she should not have sex with men this way or that. They can do as they
please. It is my opinion that a woman can be a hooker or a call girl if
she so pleases, that is her choice not mine.I do not have the right to call
her down for ruining the entire female species in the eyes of men. Maybe
it’s just thatI do not consider myself society’s moral judge. It does seem
that other women (maybe they call themselves feminists or maybe they
are religious what ever they are ’something-ists’) like to judge and put
down others.I prefer to lead and teach by example. If there is a
perceived problem in my eyes it is the lack of balance.I would LOVE to
put out sites more on the femdom side... men used for women’s
pleasures. Just have not gone there yet LOL It would be done for balance
not just to prove some point that we can do it too. I lead and teach with
my sites. That’s why I do them, not to counteract some conspiracy of
over 40 years by the porn industry to somehow degrade women.

I do a lot of teaching actually.

CJ: Anti Porn feminists have issues aside from the ’women positive’ thing
we are referring to in how we present pornography. Our interpretation of
’women positive’ is that it is empowering to a woman, not insulting to
her, and that she is actively involved in all choices she makes. For most
anti-porn feminists, the issue is that any woman who likes porn has been
brainwashed by men, so to be perfectly honest, I switch off the moment a
-woman starts to tell me why porn is bad. I’ve heard so many variations of

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the same argument, rarely with any points that are valid to making a
difference. Often the issue of porn causing rape is raised, but there is
NO scientific research to prove this fact. I watched my first porno at 10,
and found it hilariously funny that two people could bounce like that for
so long - the main thing I remember is that her tits looked funny when

they bounced and this is why you should wear a bra while jogging. You
can over-analyse every issue and anyone can present numbers in a case
for or against ... Are there still women who are anti porn? I thought there
was a vaccine available for that now ....

Claire: Both of you (Susanna and CJ) have made reference to

traditional women’s magazines as being a bigger culprit in perpetuating
negative stereotypes for women than pornography. Do you think of
yourselves as creating an alternative ’community’ or ’voice’ for women to
explore their sexuality and ’femininity’ - an alternative that may offer
more freedom to women than the vehicle of women’s magazines?

Susanna:I would answer yes, although [I’m] not consciously trying to

pull away from reading magazines. Instead,I would like to think

women
thatI and my peers produce entertainment that makes women think
about things, that ... teaches and empowers. We have a long way to
...

go because we cannot buy pictures with couples that have average

bodies (yet) because content providers do not produce it. That’s just one
example. We do what we can. We educate about orgasms. We give
women written erotica from their point of view. We write articles talking
to them about their sexuality, history of sex toys whatever.
Women-positive things. Women’s magazines are slaves to their
advertising. While a lot of the free-for-women porn might also be aimed
at advertising, [with] large, porn-for-women pay sites the advertising is
much morehonest and less abusive to women. We don’t go off on how
they are fat and need to slim down, etc. We just tell them what they
too
can get for entertainment in the pay sites.

CJ: Women’s magazines are not developed with the reader’s

individuality in mind, but rather custom built depending on what the
media wants you to read and think this season. All women’s magazines
are owned by the same two or three companies, for the purpose of

selling clothes and haircare. Occasionally there is an article that truly

explores something important, but the value is lost when it’s placed
between pages showing you how to give a better blowjob. There was an
article in (Australian) Cosmopolitan magazine a few years ago about
giving a ’handjob’. The article outlined techniques such as ’the fire
starter’ where the women would rub her hands rapidly around the penis
like she was using it to start a fire. Another technique was the ’chinese
burn’, where the penis should be twisted in opposite directions.I cringe
for the poor men who got to be on the other end of a chinese burn, and
would have loved to add an entire additional page on the use of
lubricant and gentle hands - which was neglected by the author.I
believe there is something wrong with the magazine world when AWF
(Australian Worr~en’s Forum) can be censored for an article with
diagrams of sexually transmitted diseases, but Cosmopolitan can publish
a story on how to handle a penis (incorrectly).

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1 love what Susanna said: real women do not have ulterior agendas
when they speak out ...

Claire: How would you compare what is offered through traditional

pornography magazines in print (Playboy, Penthouse, and more
hardcore magazines) to what is offered online?
Susanna: In male porn I would say its fairly similar but the magazines
are far less interactive and dynamic. In for women porn I would say that
it is much more accessible. Mostly this is due to women not really
wanting to buy porn for women magazines and have them lying around
for others to find. Porn online is accessed discreetly.I think it makes it
much more accessible for women.
CJ: (no response)
Claire: Some more recent feminist
thinking actually opposes the
anti-porn standpoint, arguing that pornography is about fantasy,
exploration, and play and that images of ’submissiveness’ and supposed
’degradation’ represent temporary erotic roles that men and women play
or fantasise about in their erotic lives but which should not be taken too

literally or thought of as defining male and female roles in broader

society. What is your opinion of this stance?
Susanna: (no response)
CJ: This is not recent feminist thinking, there have always been women
who believe this to be the case - but not everyone needs to make a
political issue out of what they do in their daily lives We have been ...

running poll on our site related to women watching pornography,

a
there’s not a huge amount of votes to prove anything, but you can see
the pattern of common responses. I agree entirely with the stance
outlined above, it seems obvious to me.
Women watching porn
TotalVotes, 257
We know men watch porn at every given opportunity, but how often do
the ladies sneak a peak at a blue movie?
(1 )I’ve never watched an adult movie in my life (25, 9.73 per cent)
(2) I’ve watched a few with partners (81, 31.52 per cent)
(3) Every time he leaves the house I raid the collection! (52, 20.23 per
cent)
(4) 1 watch occasionally but remain unfulfilled (24, 9.34 per cent)
(5)I watch adult movies to help me get in the mood (63, 24.51 per cent)
(6) Porn ruined my marriage!! (12, 4.67 per cent)

Claire: Other feminists feel that that some pornographic images are
disempowering or degrading, while others are not, along the lines of
what CJ described when she said she will often remove ’some of the over
abundance of blowjobs and sometimesI will remove the scenes with the
male cumming on the face of the woman’. Do you think it is appropriate

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to draw certain distinctions about what images are appropriate or

inappropriate from a woman-positive perspective?

Susanna: I think it is appropriate to do what ever I feel I want to on my
sites.I am marketing to myself and I am a certain kind of woman.
ObviouslyI cannot market to every woman.I have kind of picked one
kind of woman who is like me.I am not marketing presently to bisexual
women (although I have lesbians in my couples site so bi curious do
have some pleasures)I am not able to market to women who like to
submit to men.I have even met women who like cum on face pictures.
They feel honored to let their man do that to them.I can appreciate that.
I just feel that the people who take pictures have practical reasons that
there are cum on face pictures so that there is an ending to the scene
...

... so that you see at least one orgasm. It was a practicality that a new
kink was born. I find that those that really are turned on by it are
probably impressionable or maybe dominant and get off on the thought
of dominating a woman.I choose pictures based on whatI think women
like myself would like. I have to narrow my focus somehow. What I put in
my sites appeals to me. Couples scenes lots of imagery in the
...

background, props and costumes etc. Others have different takes on

what is good adult entertainment for women.
CJ: Definitely... we are less talking about removing a specific kind of
’fetish’ or ’enjoyable act’ than we are about removing key elements
which prevent *many* women from enjoying porn. If we left in the ’cum
on the face’ shots, how are we different to men’s porn? If a woman does

enjoy this act/fantasy, she can surf every other porn site on the internet,
and she doesn’t need ours to find something she likes. We often discuss
this exact issue between us, and contemplate HOW you make the
decision to include or exclude a specific piece of material. Most of us
have agreed that if a woman appears to be enjoying the act, in control
of what she is doing, and making a conscious choice to partake in that
activity, that its ’women positive’. Rarely will you find a photo of a man
cumming on a woman’s face that is flattering or sexually positive towards
women.I don’t think anyone could argue with that.

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