1988 - Holloway Aleksei German Interview

Kinoeye | Russia: Aleksei German (Alexei Gherman) interviewed http://www.kinoeye.org/04/04/holloway04.
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Vol 4 Printer-friendly version of this article RUSSIAN &

Issue 4 RUSSIA
SOVIET FILM
13 Sept A stubborn IN KINOEYE
2004 quest for historical truth
Aleksei German interviewed Aelita
Iakov
Although active in the film Protazanov
KINOEYE industry for over 40 years,
home German has shot just six
this issue Blokpost
features. His slender output, Aleksandr
about us though, is matched by an Rogozhkin
contributing obsessive interest in finding the
vacancies soul in the eras he portrays, and Brat
contact us Moi drug Ivan Lapshin was once Aleksei
voted the best Soviet film of all Balabanov
time. Kinoeye presents a classic
E-MAIL interview by Ronald Holloway, conducted with the controversial Brat 2
UPDATES director in 1988. Aleksei
Balabanov
enter e-mail
Introduction Chapayev
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Georgi & Sergei
Aleksei German, born on 2 July 1938 in Leningrad (today's St Vasiliev
more info
Petersburg), is the son of author-dramatist-war reporter Yury
German.[1] He studied stage direction under the renowned Georgy Chekhovskie
ARCHIVES
Tovstonogov,[2] managing director of the Gorky Bolshoi Drama motivy
search
Theatre, and film direction under Grigory Kozintsev,[3] co-founder Kira Muratova
english title
original title in 1921 of the Factory of Eccentric Actors with Leonid Trauberg
Cvety kalenduly
director and others and later internationally famous for his film adaptations
Sergei
article list of Shakespeare. In 1960, he graduated from the Leningrad State
Sniezhkin
journal list Institute of Theatre, Music and Cinema, and in 1964 he joined
add a link Lenfilm Studios as assistant director and production assistant. Dni zatmeniia
Aleksdandr
His first film, Sedmoi sputnik (The Seventh Companion, 1967),
Sokurov
COUNTRY codirected with Grigory Aronov,[4] was based on a novel with the
ARCHIVES same title by Boris Lavrenyov[5] and is set in the decisive historical Elegiia dorogi
years of 1918-19. German is reluctant to number this film among Aleksandr
country his directorial achievements. Sokurov
His first solo-directed film, Proverka na dorogakh (Trial on the Iady, ili
SEARCH Road / Road Check, 1971, released 1986), prompted one of the Vsemirnaia
1 of 36 04/03/2019, 10:27
Kinoeye | Russia: Aleksei German (Alexei Gherman) interviewed http://www.kinoeye.org/04/04/holloway04.php
greatest scandals in Soviet film history. A war film about the Red istoriia
otravlenii
go Army and a partisan unit fighting for their homeland against the
German invaders, it's based on a true incident recorded by Yury Karen
Shakhnazarov
German, and features such "antiheroics" as a deserter-collaborator
who tries to make amends and thus clear his conscience, a partisan
Kukushka
commander who refuses to blow up a bridge if it means killing Aleksandr
Russian POWs in the process, and a Stalinist commissar who rants Rogozhkin
and raves over the weaknesses of the deserter and the commander,
even though both are capable of courageous action when called Liubov i drugiie
upon. koshmary
Andrei
Proverka na dorogakh caused a furor at the State Committee for Nekrasov
Cinematography (Goskino). At the final hearing held on whether
the film should be released or shelved, it was defended only by Mesto na zemlie
Konstantin Simonov, an awarded war-novelist and frontline-friend Artur
of Yury German. All was not lost, however, as Simonov offered Aristakisian
German a novel of his own to film: Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny
(Twenty Days Without War, 1976, released 1977), a dreary but Mne dvadtsat'
poignantly humane portrait of wartime suffering released only in let
the Soviet Union. Marlen
Khutsiev
His third solo film,
Moi drug Ivan Molokh
Lapshin (My Friend Aleksandr
Ivan Lapshin,1982, Sokurov
released 1985),
based on his father's Moskva
story Lapshin Aleksandr
(published 1937), Zeldovich
was two years in the
making and three Offret and
years on the shelf Nostalghia
before it was granted Andrei
release, due to the Conflict Committee established by the Union of Tarkovsky
Soviet Film-makers at the outset of Mikhail Gorbachev's
perestroika period. Set in the early 1930s in provincial Russia near Okraina
Leningrad, the narrative centers on the exploits of an idealistic Peter Lutsik
police investigator intent on wiping out a band of criminals at all
Povinnost'
costs. Russian critics, noting that it took the pulse of the country by
focusing on the spreading Stalinist doctrine of timely liquidation, Aleksandr
voted Moi drug Ivan Lapshin among the "Ten Best Soviet Films of Sokurov
All Time." Prikhodi na
His fourth solo film, Khrustalev, mashinu! (Khrustalev, My Car!, menia
posmotret'
1998), a Russian-French coproduction, was seven years in the
making and premiered at the 1998 Cannes film festival. The project Oleg
Yankovsky
was interrupted several times due to unforeseen factors such as
ruble inflation, altercations with the French coproducers, and
Pro urodov i
2 of 36 04/03/2019, 10:27
professional obligations at a new studio for young film-makers liudei

Aleksei
established under his direction at Lenfilm.The title is a quote, a
phrase spoken in the film by secret police chief Lavrenty Beria at Balabanov
Stalin's deathbed in March of 1953 and which first appeared in Russkii kovcheg
Twenty Letters to a Friend (published 1967), an autobiographical
Aleksandr
account of the Stalin years by his daughter, Svetlana Alliluyeva.[7] Sokurov
Just as Moi drug Ivan Lapshin sketched the origins of the Great
Sestry
Terror under Stalin in the early 1930s, Khrustalev, mashinu! defines
Sergei Bodrov
the dead end into which it had catapulted itself a quarter-century Jr
later in the mid-1950s: intrigue and betrayal, night arrests and labor
camps, all the preconditions for today's mafia violence, political S dniem
corruption and poverty among the masses. rozhdenia
Larisa Sadilova
One scene will surely go down as unique in Russian film history:
the banality of Stalin's death. When the military doctor is recalled Samostoia-
from the gulag in a last-minute effort to save the dictator's life, tel'naia zhizn'
Beria's advice is simply "Make him fart!" A press on the stomach, Vitaly
Stalin bubbles and foams at the mouth in the throes of death, and Kanevsky
the light is extinguished on the Great Terror of 20 million dead. In a
final moment of irony, Beria calls for his car. Shchastlive dni
Aleksei
Currently, Aleksei German is working on Trudno byt' bogom (Hard Balabanov
to Be a God), a modern adaptation of a science-fiction
novelpublished in 1964 by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky.[8] In the Sibirskii
Strugatsky Brothers original, an earth expedition to another planet tsiriulnik
witnesses a religious coup d'�tat that brings to power a medieval- Nikita
like nationalist society resembling the Stalin dictatorship. Mikhalkov
The major portion of this interview with Aleksei German took Telets
place in Berlin on the 10 December 1988 before a running camera. Aleksandr
Only the segment about the making of Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny is Sokurov
taken from a separate interview without a camera present.
Tini zabutykh
The reader will note that the zigzag elements in the interview�the predkiv
occasional repetitions, the underscoring of certain facts, the Sergei
emotional expression of beliefs�stem from a personal intellectual Paradzhanov
anger, for German's quest for historical truth in Soviet cinema was
Velikii uteshitel'
never accepted by the authorities. Nearly all of his films were
banned or shelved for a period of time. And when finally released, Lev Kuleshov
they were generally misunderstood by both public and critics, so
much so that the director has had to fight an uphill battle to defend
their integrity as unequivocal statements on the Great Terror ("a
different way of looking at the past"), the Great Fatherland War
("the truth of the trench"), and other issues of a highly sensitive
political nature. Meanwhile, as more than one Russian film
historian has pointed out, far too much of postwar Soviet war film
has been notorious for its glut of lies, exaggerations, and assaults on
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the historical record.
Biographical notes are inserted into the interview to throw more

light on names and places, while at the same time allowing for the
free flow of dialogue and thought. It should be added that Aleksei
German is not only a walking encyclopedia of facts and theories,
but also a guardian of history as it was lived and handed on to
generations to follow. At our first meeting, I was astonished to learn
that he has read all the seminal writings on the Stalinist period,
including the Western authors (eg Robert Conquest's The Great
Terror, published in 1968), some of which had been illegally
smuggled into the Soviet Union.
I discovered, too, that before he began shooting a new film, he

would spend months researching archives for factual details. He
would search for relevant photos in family albums. He would study
contemporary newsreels and documentaries. He would spend hours
talking to eyewitnesses who had lived through the times. Also, to
underscore his penchant for authenticity, he would shoot all his
films in black-and-white. These measures had but one purpose in
mind: to guarantee a higher production value.
True, this quest for historical truth may seem onerous to some in
the West. But in the Soviet Union, where traces of the past have
been effectively rubbed out by certain privileged sycophantic
writers and artists, Aleksei German towers above the crowd as a
film-maker who has, indeed, taken the pulse of a nation and
continues to fight for his right to do so.
Yury German
Aleksei German, you wear many hats�actor, screenwriter,

theatre director, film-maker, historian, theorist, mentor to a
new wave of Russian directors. Just which one of these
professions fits you best?
Who am I? By profession, I am a theatre director.[9] I graduated

from a theatre in Irkutsk. I didn't want to become a director. I
wanted to be a doctor. My father talked me into becoming a
director. My father, Yury German was a famous Soviet writer. I
think he was a good writer. He didn't develop or show his talent
completely. There are writers who can develop their talent by 50
percent, or 90 percent, or 100 percent, or 200 percent, or 900
percent, or 1000 percent�like Sergei Mikhalkov,[10] who wrote
four fables and is now like a founding father. That's just nonsense.
My father didn't develop his talent much.
He wrote a very good story about Lapshin in which, for the first
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time in the 1930s, a solitary individual was discussed. Konstantin

Simonov told me about this after he had already died. He said that
when he had read it, he thought that it was written by an old man.
But it was written by a young man, 25 years old. Some of his works
were staged by Meyerhold[11] when he was 22 or 23. He wrote a
number of wonderful books. But he really suffered during his life.
In which way did he suffer?
First of all, he was the son of an officer. All his predecessors were
of the wrong origin. His father was a general. His grandfather was a
general. Of course, they were generals of the tsar. And it means that
his life was really very difficult. And I must say that he was
absolutely Soviet. He was completely devoted to the Soviet Power.
And he thought that nothing better had been invented. And he was
interested in Stalin for a certain period of time. So we don't want to
hide that.
After the war, he lost his faith very quickly. And at the end, in
1948, he hated Stalin. And I remember as a boy, when I rushed into
the room to say that Stalin was dead, my father was undressed at
that moment. He repeated several times that Stalin was dead, and
that it won't be any worse. Because the whole country was weeping
at the same time. So I remember this impression from my
childhood very well.
How good a writer was your father?
I think that my father destroyed his talent. Because he was a writer

with a broad range, even more than Trifonov,[12] whom I really
like. He wasn't very strong in life. He wanted to live better than he
lived. His family. His ideas. He was really interested in the 20th
Congress [of the Communist Party]. And after that he even joined
the Party after the 20th Congress in 1956. He was interested in
Khrushchev's ideas.[13] And he thought it was important to spread
all these ideas among a great number of people. And for that it was
necessary to publish things and to release them on television. And
he forgot about the quality. He wrote things for just one day. He
took good stories, and then he destroyed them. He made them
worse. It was a big tragedy of an intelligent and good person. At
least, I think so. And he wrote screenplays for many films, too.
Which were the important screenplays penned by your father?
For example, the famous film Semero smelyk (The Brave

Seven).[14] Also, Doctor Kalyuzhny[15] and Pirogov.[16] He
worked with Heifitz.[17] After my father's death, my understanding
of his importance for the cinema grew, and it keeps growing. There
are so many small details and other things to take into
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consideration. My wife Svetlana and I began reading his prose very

carefully. To some extent, Svetlana and I helped some films�for
example, Torpedonostsy (Torpedo Bombers)[18]�to be born out of
the prose of my father. Five films in all. And four of them became
very famous in the Soviet Union.
How many of your father's films were awarded?
My father set box office records. You asked about prizes. Well,
those were records. No one else had anything like this. So in three
years, four state prizes were given to the films made from the basis
of my father's prose. I don't think Simonov, or Mikhalkov, or
anyone else, achieved the same�in three years, four state prizes.
And our part was that we helped to bring this prose to the cinema.
This is about my father.
Did your father ever meet Stalin?
My father knew Gorky[19] personally, and Gorky wrote an article

about him. My father knew Stalin. He had dinner with him two
times. But he didn't visit Stalin in his house. He visited Gorky, and
at the same time Stalin was visiting Gorky, too. My father was
really very famous before the war. He received a big award, the
Stalin Prize, for his Pirogov screenplay. So, you see, the whole
story is very complicated.
Now I want to repeat that my grandfather was an officer under the

tsar, and my grandmother was a nurse in the army. She was at the
front. And on my mother's side I have some relatives who were
merchants. They were Jewish. I'm Russian by nationality, but with a
lot of Jewish blood. And I must say that I am proud to be of Jewish
blood, although that may sound stupid. And I'm proud of my
Russian blood, because I love Russia and Russians. But I am glad
that I have some connection with an ancient, powerful people�the
Jews.
Tovstonogov and Kozintsev
Before you became a film director, you worked in the theatre

with Georgy Tovstonogov�
We had staged a play by Evgeny Schwarz.[20] Georgy

Tovstonogov watched it, and he invited everyone who had
participated on the production to work in his theatre. Later he
changed his mind, but two people continued to work for him:
Sergei Yursky [21], and me. My job wasn't very interesting with
him. But I was a director, so I did certain things for him. It was a
good school for me because of the great respect for literature. I was
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a very progressive director at times, and I was very thankful. He

taught me many things.
At a certain period in my life I understood that I shouldn't work

with him. Because I could guess what he wanted from me. So I
learned how to suggest something that would be accepted. And I
think that means death for a director.
Many other things happened, too. For example, here's a funny story
that helped me to understand the situation. One day, I met a girl, her
name was Natasha, she had blue eyes. And I told her that I worked
for the Bolshoi Drama Theatre as a director, and she was really
surprised. She said, "You are Tovstonogov." Then I understood that
I should leave. Because to work for Tovstonogov, and to work in
the theatre, and to want to be a Tovstonogov�it just was not
possible. So I left the theatre�
�to study film direction under Grigory Kozintsev.
Kozintsev offered to take me as one of his students in the Higher

Directors Courses at Lenfilm. One day, I went to talk to Kozintsev
about this because now, I really wanted him to take me in his
classes. At the same time, however, I didn't want to leave
Tovstonogov, because at that time I was already a director and I had
some popularity. Kozintsev said that he would take me, but we
decided it should be a great secret before I would start attending the
classes.
Then something happened in a quite traditional way. A list was

printed on a board at the studio with the names of all the people
who would become film students, and my name was among them.
Tovstonogov learned about that. He was a very jealous man by
nature, so I had to leave him. But then Kozintsev didn't start his
classes. They were postponed until one year later. And so I had to
work as a second director at Lenfilm.
Why didn't you enroll in the Moscow Film School (VGIK)?
I can't even tell you if one should be a student of VGIK or not. I

can suggest something different. For example, a student chooses a
director. Then at the entrance examination, a conclusion is reached
that this person has a gift. He is talented, and in addition, you can
teach him many things. After that, a person can continue his
education for a year, get to know something about several subjects,
watch films. It's not that he's really taught something about the
films. He just watches films. And after that, he may choose a
director and work with him to make a film or two.
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First, he can be an assistant director, then a second director, and

then he can make films himself. I don't know what you can teach
for four years. I know that students are taught Marxism, political
economy, and so on. I know that there are many directors who are
VGIK graduates. But the percentage of talented people is not very
high. And at the same time they all lose the chance to practice an
intermediate profession, such as working as an assistant director, or
second director. This is important, too. I was offered to start classes
in VGIK. But I was afraid because I didn't feel I needed a film
school.
What was your first job in the cinema?
I was an assistant director to Vladimir Vengerov.[22] He was a

good director and did many good things, but now he's forgotten.
Sedmoi Sputnik (The Seventh Companion, 1968)
What was your first film as a director?
Grischa Aronov sent for me, and we began the film Sedmoi
Sputnik.[23] Sedmoi Sputnik was a catastrophe because two
different people were making a film from two points of view. At a
certain moment, I had to submit to him. Otherwise, we wouldn't
have anything at all. I understood that I had to be patient. I felt like
an old, unliked husband.
I thought it was important to be patient at this time. Also, this kind

of freedom meant a new life. Grisha Aronov was an experienced
man, and he did a lot for me. But we worked absolutely differently.
One more thing: he planted inside of me a fear of my profession. I
thought in a film that the most important thing was who was
looking where. So that then all the pieces could be put together.
Sedmoi Sputnik was made from a script by Yury Klepikov[24] and
Edgar Dubrovsky,[25] and they are very interesting screenwriters.
And the film shows the problem of hostages during the revolution.
It wasn't something new.
What was the theme of Sedmoi Sputnik?
It was a film about hostages. It was a film about the beginning of

some of our problems. We wanted to do it like this: we wanted to
prove that the beginning of many troubles of our life did not begin
in 1935, as many people think, but in 1919. Many big, painful
problems started right then. So the film showed how hostages were
taken from different classes, including generals of the Tsar's army.
And they were sitting and waiting. They were not guilty of
anything. Their guilt was that they belonged to a certain class. From
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time to time, some of them were chosen and then just killed.
In short, we wanted to say in the film Sedmoi Sputnik that the

beginning of many processes of our life�such as breaking the law,
and other things, and many other serious problems�began long,
long ago. They all started in 1919. Then we had the Red Terror.
And the main conclusion is that the absence of moral principles
cannot be the foundation of anything.
This is what we wanted to say. But it was done with very weak
means, and the film was not accepted by the public and critics when
it was released. Given other circumstances, it might have had a
quite different life, one more meaningful. But at that time Gleb
Panfilov had made a very good film on the same theme, V ogne
broda net (No Ford in the Fire, 1968). In the competition between
the two films, Panfilov's film won hands-down.[26]
Why do you feel that Sedmoi Sputnik was a failure?
It was not a very successful film because it was directed by two

directors. But the problems that were discussed there were very
serious. When my wife Svetlana and I reflect on that film, we want
to remake it because the problems that are discussed there are very
interesting. It's the problem of hostages during the revolution. It's
set in 1919. So people from every class group are taken to be
prostitutes. And they must be killed if there is an attempt...
Proverka na dorogakh (Trial on the Road / Road Check, 1971/86)
For your first independently directed film, you chose a war

theme about POWs, a rather dangerous subject under the
circumstances �
The next film I made was Proverka na dorogakh. It was denied

release. Why was it banned? Because the film was about Stalin's
methods of managing the people, of Stalin's methods of treating the
people. The film was about morals. And about immorality. And
about captured prisoners-of-war, who had spent 10 or 25 years in
prison only because they had put on a German uniform.
They did that because they probably wanted a chance to live. They
wanted later to come back. You see, every person has a chance to
live. You see, those people didn't even do any bad things. But
automatically they received 25 years imprisonment. So we want to
tell the public something about that. We thought that the arts
couldn't be silent about this, so we offered this film. The film was
shot in 1971, and the film was released 15 years later. Of course,
many things that we did in the film had aged [in the mean time]..
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What inspired you to make Proverka na dorogakh?
Before Proverka na dorogakh I wanted to make Moi drug Ivan

Lapshin. The story about Proverka na dorogakh is very weak, but it
gave me a chance to work on problems, characters and so on. So
they started together with my father. But, in fact, my father didn't
write any interesting things in the story.
But with his writing talent he found a man. His surname was
Nikiforov, and he was a spy who really felt with the film. So
Nikiforov started to go to the spy schools, where he met betrayers,
and he started to talk these people into returning to the Soviet side.
He talked to people like that. And he promised them forgiveness.
And in such a way he brought many people with him. He was a
very brave man. He went to school with immigrants from Germany,
so he could speak German very well. He was very handsome, too.
And he was a hero of the Soviet Union. It was our highest award.
After the war, when he had brought all those people back to the
Soviet side, they were sent to prison. Their wives came to him, and
he felt a responsibility for their lives. So he went to Zhdanov[27] to
discuss the situation. Zhdanov, one of our Soviet leaders, received
him and listened to him. And he promised to find a way out of the
situation. Then Nikiforov was arrested�right in one of the
corridors of Smolny[28]�and he was sentenced to 10 or 25 years
in prison. By the time we were making the film, he had come back
from prison, and he told us a lot of stories. All of them were true.
For example, in the film Proverka na dorogakh, a soldier from the
detachment of General Vlasov[29] comes to the road, and a gun of
a Soviet soldier is aimed at his back, then a gun of a German soldier
is aimed at his chest.
And the last thing about Nikiforov: he was arrested after being
received by Zhdanov in Smolny. He spent many years in prison, so
he was a good narrator who knew many stories. Many of them
became part of the film later. One day, I entered my father's room.
He was writing at his desk. He had a terrible stomachache. I didn't
know that this was the beginning of the end. After a while, my
father died, and this theme was taken by another director. He made
a script of it, but the script was bad, so he didn't make a film.
Is it true that Vitaly Akseyanov, the head of the Lenfilm

Studios, lost his job because of Proverka na dorogakh?
There was a scandal over my film Proverka na dorogakh. The head

of the Lenfilm Studio found himself in a very difficult situation. He
liked the film, and he wanted to help it. And he felt that there was
some support behind the film director. He thought that the officials
10 of 36 04/03/2019, 10:27
in Russia didn't have any principles. On the other hand, the film
director was being supported by many good people. The situation
was a kind of example, the example of a battlefield, or a small
village where the battle was happening. Heifitz, Tovstonogov and
Kozintsev were for the film director. And many writers, too, among
them Margarita Aliger.[30] Also, generals of the war. There was
General Soburov, the famous leader of the guerrillas during the war,
and many other people like that.
At the same time, there were many Party leaders who supported me
as well. But that wasn't taken into consideration. It was like a slap
in the face. The head of the studio paid with his career for that film.
He was given another job, another position as the head of a theatre.
So it was a big price to pay. Because two or three hundred people
work in the theatre, but a thousand people work at the film studio.
With so many important people supporting you and your film,

why didn't it help in the end?
The film was released. And many people did support it: film
directors, people like Tovstonogov. There was also a letter
addressed to the government, saying that this film should be
supported. The film was supported by generals like Karizky and
Soburov. Also, the film was supported by some Party leaders. There
was a lady called Zinaida Kruglova, the head of the Leningrad
Territory Party Committee. [who supported it]. So I was supported
by all these people. I was also supported by Alexander Karaganov,
the Secretary of the Union of Soviet Cinematographers. There were
others, too�for example, Sergei Gerasimov. In the end, these
people didn't allow the film to be destroyed. So I was supported.
The head of the film studio wanted to participate in the battle, too.
He wanted to have a good film. Everything was developing rapidly.
A big political fight took place. For example, the former film
minister, Romanov, said that this film had been placed under his
chair like a bomb. So he didn't even participate in the whole
process. He said he was against the film. All the same, he was
accused of participating in the film. A kind of political show was
made out of all this.
As a result, a member of the Politburo, Mazurov, viewed the film

and asked whether or not there was any political control at all in the
State Committee for Cinematography. There was a report by
Dermichev at a well-attended ideological meeting. The report said
that the war was not against the fascists, but in the trenches. And
the film was done in such a way as to oppose Osvobozhdenie
(Liberation, dir Yury Ozerov, 1968-71), a famous [five-part epic
television] film about the war.[31] There were many accusations
11 of 36 04/03/2019, 10:27
against the authors of the film, and their conclusion was like this:
"You haven't seen the film, and you will never see it again."
Were you asked to cut anything out of Proverka na dorogakh to

save it from being banned or even destroyed?
At a very high level the film was prohibited, forbidden. And the
head of the film studio was given another position as the head of a
theatre. Later, he had to retire. He said that it had been suggested to
cut out certain footage in Proverka na dorogakh: for example, the
suicide of Lazerev and the cross-examination of Erofeyich. The
bridge, too, because it showed an insulting number of the captured
prisoners. I think that was a stupid opinion. Also, Maya Bulgakova,
who curses the people and then follows them.
Do these cuts, and the film wouldn't be the normal length because
too many pieces would have been cut out. Even if I thought of
doing something like that, I heard only shouts of protest.
Konstantin Simonov said: "Let me be the editor." This battle lasted
for a year. It was so difficult for me that I was ready to agree to put
the film on the shelf. But Simonov said "No, it's very important for
us to win."
What happened when Proverka na dorogakh was officially

released in 1986?
I had never thought about such a terrible life for a film. But the
financing comes only when the film is officially released. In 1986,
it was given the First Category [designating the highest level of
promotion and distribution by the state]. But then a letter came
saying all the members of the film group would be fined 20 percent
because the state didn't receive any money for the film. In other
words, we were fined 20 percent for the refusal make the changes
in the film.
So I went to the State Committee for Cinematography, and I told

them this was absurd. They had released the film. They had given it
the First Category. And now they want to fine the film director 20
percent for his refusal to make all the changes�back 15 years ago.
It was because of my refusal to be cooperative. But if I hadn't stuck
to my principles in the very beginning, then nothing would be
released now. And nothing would get the First Category. And then I
tried to name all the changes that I had been offered. And the new
boss, [Armin] Medveyev by name, he understood the situation. He
even apologized.
Then another letter came, saying that I should be fined 5 percent,

because they just couldn't forget about the refusal to be cooperative
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and all those other things. It wasn't a big joke. It was a desire to use
all means possible to punish us. Of course, later, the fine was paid
back. This was just a farce. So you see, like Pushkin said, "You
cannot sell inspiration, but you can sell the paper."
Did anyone in the film profession ever see Proverka na

dorogakh while it was banned and on the shelf in the archives?
When the film was confined to the archives, the following thing
happened. First of all, we had stolen the film. I mean, we had stolen
a print. It was kept under the bed in Moscow for 15 years.
Whenever we had the chance, we showed the film to friends and
colleagues to prove that we were not just would-be artists from the
streets. We secretly showed the film. There was another different
name put on the film boxes, so that the projectionist couldn't report
on us. We went somewhere off the beaten path. We had quite a few
friends. Some ten or twelve people would gathered, who, of course,
were all trustworthy. And we showed the film secretly.
What happened to this "secret print"? And how is it possible to

project a print of a banned film from the archive?
When the film was finally officially released, we triumphantly gave

this stolen copy to the propaganda bureau. We had such a bureau
under socialism. It was an organization that opposed the ministry,
so we just gave them the copy. If you wanted to show an archive
print of a banned film, you had to go to the head of the film studio
to get special permission to show it. And then the chief dispatcher
came to the hall to see who was watching. And if there was
someone who was not on the list, then he had to leave.
Once I showed the film to my American aunt. She's Russian, and

she doesn't look like an American at all. She came and watched the
film with some very big bosses. I invited my aunt to see it. She was
sitting somewhere in the corner very quietly. Many people wanted
to see the film. For example, [the dissident writer Aleksandr]
Solzhenitsyn. But we were afraid. We didn't want any international
quarrel. We thought we could find a way out with our local bosses.
We thought we would be able to talk them into finding a way
because we thought that other forces who supported us may not like
it. But nothing helped. Later, I regretted that I hadn't show it at least
to Solzhenitsyn.
How did American audiences react to Proverka na dorogakh?
It's interesting to note the reaction of Americans to this film.

Because many American directors came up to me and said the film
is OK. They said it was a good film. But they were not interested in
what was said there. Which words were used. What kind of
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problems were being discussed. They liked some of the pictures.

For example, a gun that falls into the snow and makes some noise.
They liked things like that. So they asked me if I had made this
picture myself. So that meant that out of 10,000 interesting tricks
that exist in Hollywood, I invented 10,001. This is how I can
explain their interest.
Was it a tragedy for you to see how the film had grown "old"
over the years while Proverka na dorogakh was on the shelf?
I think it was a great tragedy. Because we had invented many things

that no one else had invented before us. For example, a look into
the camera in the episode with the captured prisoners. Everyone is
looking into the camera. Also, the prologue was something new.
We had introduced new technical things that other film-makers
arrived at years later. Of course, all these things get older. Of
course, it's a tragedy. The cinema is a constantly developing kind of
art form. It gets old very quickly.
Proverka na dorogakh is often compared with Larisa Shepitko's

Voskhozhdeniye (The Ascent, 1976), based on Vasily Bykov's
novel Sotnikov (published in 1972).
I didn't notice any resemblance. But Konstantin Simonov told me

that he saw many things in common. Of course, I didn't see her film
at the time, as Shepitko's film was released several years later. So
probably we came to the same conclusions separately. Or probably
Larisa saw my film. It sometimes happens that a "quotation" gets
into a person's head. It doesn't mean that someone has stolen
something from someone else. No, the cinema is developing in this
direction.
How were you able to introduce these innovations into the

script of a Soviet war theme that followed certain stylistic
norms?
We didn't get any permission to make the film the way we did. We
were lucky that the previous film, Sedmoi Sputnik, was not very
successful. So we were not really controlled from the artistic point
of view. It was easier in that situation because no one expected us
to produce such an artistic explosion. You see, things like that
sometimes just happen. You probably know some of our problems.
We had a level, a standard, for everything. Certain opinions to
follow. For example, in agriculture there was a man named
Lysenko. In the theatre it was Stanislavsky. In literature it was
Maxim Gorky. It was important to follow certain examples.
So there was a standard, too, in depicting the war. It mustn't be very

pleasing. Because that's naturalism. It mustn't look like something
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very small. Rather, it should be depicted as an important tragedy. In

our case, we were seeking what's called "the truth of the trench."
There were many rules for depicting the war.
Do you mean that "the truth of the trench" was not one of those
rules or standards for depicting the war?
What is "the truth of the trench"? What kind of "truth" can there
be? What's important is the truth of the generals, the real truth. It
was strange that the bureaucracy, the state, was trying to get into
everything. For example, their insistence on "quality." Who cares
what kind of village is shown, what kind of costume? But it was
supposed that everything must be "common." The "average type."
And it was terrible when something just stood out of the row.
One of the accusations against Proverka na dorogakh was that it

showed a "mad quality." What does that mean? You see, we showed
exactly what existed. And if I showed something that was not so
common, then I was accused of such terms as "naturalism," or
"hyper-realism." What kind of "hyper-realism" was it? It was just
an effort to tell more truth about the war. And some of the terms
were like that. That the war was won by shaved, young, and
handsome people. But where could the people shave if they were in
the trenches if they were not somewhere at headquarters? That
wasn't quite understandable. Or, as an deputy minister once told
me: when a journalist came to the front and wanted to take a picture
of the soldiers, he even tried to hide a hole on the soldier's uniform.
How can you show "shabby, dirty soldiers"? That's not possible!
So, in a sense, you were wrestling with the hallowed theme of

the "Great Fatherland War"?
We were thinking and thinking. Then we found a way out. We took

the conversation with the deputy minister and inserted it into the
film. So it's part of some negative character's speech. So these were
the impressions of the war. If you want to make a film about the
war, then take all these things into consideration. Generally
speaking, when Proverka na dorogakh was made, one of the
problems was this.
And the same problem was with the film Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny
(Twenty Days Without War). There were some clich�s in depicting
the war, and all these clich�s flowed from "good films" like
[Vladimir Vengerov's] The Baltic Sky (1961). Or If Your House Is
Dear to You. Or Alive and Dead�that was a "good film." And all
these clich�s were flowing in the direction of such bad films�like
Osvobozhdenie by Ozerov�so that this substance was to be taken
as the war. That generals were happy in films like that. A kind of
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aesthetics was developing along the lines of films like this. That's
the first thing. Now let's go further.
Was Proverka na dorogakh the only one of your films that was
forbidden?
Practically all of my films have been forbidden to the public. For a

while, they would be allowed. Then they were shelved again.
But when they were later shown abroad, they were sometimes
awarded prizes.
I don't even know what kind of awards I had received for which
films. I was told that all the prizes were small, that I had received
some certificates. A critics' prize from FIPRESCI, for instance. I
received some diplomas in Locarno. I received something in this
country, too: two state prizes: one from the USSR, the other from
the Russian Federation. That was the maximum. I don't know the
meaning of these prizes because the film festivals were small. I
have no idea of any big prizes. And if I had been awarded a Grand
Prix, what I got was bronze. A Grand Prix must be golden. But life
is life, and you can't change it.
The prizes from my country were, in a sense, the highest awards for
the film. I don't know about other prizes, or what kind of prizes
they were. For example, in England, it was awarded the "Prize for
Outstanding Film of the Year." But whether this is really a big
prize, or just a consolation prize, I don't know. There is a saying:
"You can despise their awards, but it's better to despise them when
you have them." On the other hand, I would like to have big prizes.
But if I wasn't given any big prizes, that's all right, too. Right now,
there are some very good films by [Aleksandr] Sokurov, and
recently one of them was given a consolation prize, too. And I think
it is a very good film. So all these prizes and awards are just a fuss.
How long did it take to complete Proverka na dorogakh?
As for Proverka na dorogakh, it was like this. It took a year to write

a script. It took a year or even more to shoot it. It took a year to
prohibit it. So, you see, it was three and a half years. And then it
was prohibited forever. This was the story.
Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny (Twenty Days Without War, 1976/77)
How long did it take to complete your next film, Dvadtsat dnei
bez voiny?
We make problems for ourselves. We think and think. Then it takes

a long time to get the script right. And the film is being shot for a
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very long time. From the point of view of people who live in the
West, it's not even understandable how you can make a film over
two years. So it took me two years to make a film. So we were
working. Then we stopped. Then some actors left, and new people
came. Then we started again. And we continued. Then we were
short of money. Then someone got ill. It lasted for two years. We
had to go through that. Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny was in the process
of shooting for two years. Before that, it took a year, or a year and a
half, to make the script. After that, it was prohibited for a year. So,
you see, overall it took five years. And I'm speaking about a more
or less successful film, Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny.
After the scandal of Proverka na dorogakh, how could you even

receive official permission to direct again?
I owe a profound thanks to Konstantin Simonov. One day, he

phoned and said he wanted to work with a younger film-maker,
particularly since collaboration with veteran directors was
becoming rather difficult. He had seen my first film, the shelved
Proverka na dorogakh, based on the war stories by my father,
whom he knew from the war years, and it had impressed him very
much. So he offered to write something for me. Our first thought
was a theme about the Spanish Civil War�a film about Mate Zalka
[pseudonym for Hungarian General Paul Lukacs of the
International Brigade, who was killed by an artillery shell in June
of 1937 while inspecting the Republican lines]. But then we
realized that it would have to be a Hungarian coproduction, so after
giving the idea some thought, we eventually decided to drop it.
Then Simonov gave me a copy of his Lopatkin's Notes to read.

[When published, Lopatkin's Notes included three stories: Four
Steps, Twenty Days Without War, and We Won't Meet Again.] It was
still in the galley
stage before publication. What I liked in particular was the story of

the aviator. There was the squeaking train car, the motif of a train
criss-crossing Russia, the candles in the aisle, and things like that. I
felt I could build everything else around this motif. So I sent
Simonov a telegram: "I want to film it." I trusted him, and he
trusted me. After all, he had published in Isvestiya a complimentary
review about my debut film right when I had lost all hope.
When I went to see him, he told me he had stripped the aviation

story out of Lopatkin's Notes. I didn't understand why. He said that
this particular story wasn't exactly true, even if everything else had
really happened as described in his notes�in other words, he had
written the story "right off the bat." Whenever he returned from the
front, he would dictate his notes to a stenographer on that very
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night. But he also made sure to hold onto all these notes.
What impressed you most about Lopatkin's Notes?
Do you mean Lopatkin's Notes or Simonov's Notes? Simonov

pulled out of his archive notes a story that dealt with an actor. It
was much more interesting than the one about the aviator, who had
accompanied Simonov, who had prepared his meals and shaved
him. Simonov told me that, one day, he burst out with the request:
"Please write a letter for me!" Then he told him the details of his
broken marriage, about how his wife was unfaithful, about why he
was leaving her. This story contained more than enough engrossing
details, but Simonov tossed it away because he had already penned
the poem Zhdi menya (Wait for Me, 1941), written on behalf of the
aviator. If Simonov had been the run-of-the-mill army major, then
the aviator would hardly have confided in him on such an intimate
matter.
Anyway, I was dumbfounded. I wanted to pursue the matter, but

then Simonov said that in the story of the aviator, it all depends on
which state of despair a man finds himself in. Should he only be
unhappy that his wife has left him, then he would confide in hardly
anyone. But if the pain has left a bleeding wound, then he has to let
everything out. Even the strongest men in such a situation could
suffer a mental breakdown. Simonov accepted that.
If the aviator story was out, what was in?
Konstantin Simonov gave us�to me and my wife Svetlana, my

scriptwriter�his archival notes on the war. We were allowed to use
whatever material suited us to make a film. So Dvadtsat dnei bez
voiny is not really based on "Lopatkin's Notes"�as you will find in
the screen credits�but on Simonov's own war notes.
Just what kind of film material in the Notes were you looking
for?
First, material that would deal with human feelings. Then, how
people would react to the situation of war. In this regard, I tend to
draw upon my own childhood experiences, on my own
recollections of the war.
So, in general, it's about describing a condition of the soul?
Exactly right. While we were digging through the material,

suddenly we hit upon the problem of an old man, a love story. Ivan
Bunin [1870-1953, Nobel Prize for Literature, 1933] had written a
story during his emigration in Paris about a White Guard General
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who fell in love with a middle-aged woman, a servant woman. I

talked about this story with Simonov, and he said he too liked this
story very much. So I read it again, and it gave me an inspirational
impulse.
I'm convinced that the love of a mature man is a strong experience.

The love of young people is never very interesting for me because,
as my father once said, it's a time of getting to know yourself. The
love of an older, more mature man is something else entirely�more
precious, more genuine. This deliberation was very important for
me. It led me to choose the right actor for the lead role of
Lopatkin�
�Yury Nikulin, a well-known clown�
I needed a non-military person for this role. Also, Simonov shows

in Lopatkin's Notes that his hero goes through a certain evolution,
independently of how one grows old during a war. In the beginning,
he characterizes him as someone who acts like a wool trader from
Mongolia�moody, awkward, shortsighted. He wears squeaking
boots and grins with an anguished smile. Then he remembers an
ensign from the First World War, then later he becomes manlier and
even picks up a gun. This process was for me very interesting, and
it influenced my work with the actor Nikulin. It was conditioned by
the rhythm in which the theme of the war is integrated into the film.
The milieu of a film is very important to you. How did you

integrate the studio design, the art direction, the costumes, the
props, and so on, into the acting performances?
Production design and milieu are not ends in themselves. Take, for
example, the shot of the torn stocking worn by Nina Nikolayeva,
played by Lyudmila Gurchenko. She is standing in the aisle of the
train car and crying. And Lopatkin�after all, he is a man�he looks
down at her legs and sees the shabby stocking�
Later, the love scene is handled quite tactfully�
I had a problem in this regard. The dilemma of how to depict their

love scene. Do I have to undress them? That would be distasteful. I
decided to shoot their love like a recollection of an
infirmity�silence, the making of the bed, the starched linen�
Or I used a shot that showed them through a window. They are

sitting at a table, eating, talking. For a long time I didn't like this
shot, until suddenly a wonderful event took place. Do you know
what the two were doing? They were scolding each other, they were
trying to outdo each other with barbs. Before, that shot threatened
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to be too sentimental.
We all remember the special atmosphere of the war. And so I tried

to reconstruct the loudness, the rumors, the speech of the war so as
to build something like a polyphony, to hear an echo of the voices
of war.
How do you mean by a "polyphony" of the war?
I deliberated along these lines: people live in a certain milieu, one

that is circumscribed by love and the life of the protagonists. They
are marked in a certain way by this milieu. So I had a special sound
recording prepared in which certain arbitrarily chosen fragments of
sentences by other people are louder than those of the protagonists.
The pair is speaking about their emotional problems at the same
time as other people are passing by in an exchange of words of this
or that.
For the sake of veracity, I looked for people who had been blinded
during the war and therefore could still remember the sounds of the
war. I found a man who could recite poetry and sing songs as they
were heard during the war. You should know that recordings of
radio broadcasts do not exist any more. This man and his wife
helped us very much. Both had been blinded during a bomb attack,
so the acoustical side of the war years was well preserved in their
memories.
Did you find any material�costumes, props, etc.�that you

could use to reconstruct on the scene the war period?
We found a "preserved" hospital car that had been left on a side

track�perhaps with the idea that it might prove useful again. When
we stepped into the operating car, there were still scalpels, scissors,
pinchers on the table. On the floor were dark stains, possible blood
stains. It all seemed quite eerie.
It sounds like you were making a fiction-documentary �
One guideline was particularly helpful. I identified this film more

with poetry than prose. Although I do not possess any particular
poetic talents, I would write down some impressions in free-
flowing verse and then communicate these to the cameraman�
Can you give me an example?
For example, the episode of the female orchestra. How did this
come about? I was sure that there had been such an orchestra
during the war and that the tradition was continued up to the
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present day. And sure enough, I found one in Leningrad. Of course,

I had to be sure that the scenes corresponded to the times and that
the costumes matched the period, too. I didn't want to burden actors
with this requirement.
So I hit upon a scene in which a bunch of young officers were being

ceremoniously sent off to the front at a train station. It was then
only a question of choosing the right types, of picking the right
faces of men and women, of knowing how the spectators should be
dressed, of being sure that the young recruits had the same kind of
haircut�all the elements of a composition before the scene was
shot. Before shooting, we rehearsed that scene. The dress and
makeup of the women in the orchestra were important for veracity.
At that time I had no intention of including this segment in the film,
but the results of the rehearsal were very emotional.
So the female orchestra played an important role in the making

of Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny...
Shortly thereafter, I went to Tashkent to shoot the meeting in the

factory. I discovered a decrepit old workshop. The extras were
dressed to match the period, but the meeting seemed somewhat
colorless despite the proper ambiance and the photos we used of
children standing at the machines. I went to the production manager
and pleaded: "Please bring me the female orchestra from
Leningrad. Without them I am lost!" The comrades in the
Uzbekistan Central Committee offered their support as well. The
orchestra came. I asked the women to play in the empty workshop,
and it moved me to tears. I knew then that the scene of the meeting
was salvaged.
You have to imagine that I had to find a way to keep all 5,000
bystanders standing there silently without making a move. No
bunch of extras anywhere in the world could do that on the spot.
And I needed a long camera pan across faces of people drawn
within themselves. So I asked them to remember the war, to pay
respect to those who sacrificed their lives�all in vain. Then the
orchestra played the melody "Rise Up, Great Land"�and crowd
literally froze into a defiant stance. We panned the crowd several
times and ended up with some wonderful shots of an atmosphere of
pride, of dignity, of enduring belief in a good cause.
Moi drug Ivan Lapshin (My Friend Ivan Lapshin, 1982/85)
How long did it take to complete Moi drug Ivan Lapshin?
As for the film Moi drug Ivan Lapshin, it took a year to write the
script. Then it took a year to make all the preparations. Because we
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had to buy the technical means, and then we had to collect all the
costumes. We visited many people and tried to find all the costumes
we needed. We collected a lot of photographs because we didn't
want to use the archives. Because the archives in all the countries
are lying. The things put into the newsreels for the archives are all
lies. In America, in Germany, in Russia most of all. What am I
talking about? I'm talking about those newsreels that were supposed
to show the positive things in life. The joy, all the good things. Not
just showing a street. So in order to understand what kind of life it
was, we had to find things, pictures about, for example, how
something was being built.
For example, we watched some short films about building water

pipes. Of course, the cameraman was showing all those pipes. At
the same time, when he moved his camera from one place to
another, to look at the street, to look at the boys, who were probably
not always very polite, who didn't have very good manners. Or we
saw a woman with quite a few bags. So we could see the real life.
We couldn't make the film without all these things. That's why it
took so long for every film. If you want to know, Moi drug Ivan
Lapshin is really filming. It was introducing something new.
What sorts of "new things" were introduced in Moi drug Ivan

Lapshin?
If you want, I can show you in a very short way which technical
means we used. Just what kind of film is Moi drug Ivan Lapshin?
This is a story about the 1930s. Margarita Aliger wrote about the
period that we were young, and there was no war that we couldn't
win. And now we are accused of every fault. There is no fault that
we are not accused of. So this is said about the 1930s. This is just a
phrase.
What was happening back then? A lot of repressions took place.

Many peasants were made to leave their residence and their
property to the State and go away. The Party was being destroyed.
The village, the whole system was being destroyed. The idea of the
revolution was being destroyed. And all the moral principles were
being destroyed. And all these things happened.
But were there any good people? Yes, there were. Good people with
moral principles? Yes, there were. People who tried to live
according to the truth. Yes, there were. My parents lived at that
time. So we tried to speak about the 1930s, about life in those days.
We wanted to show life and some of the things that brought the
people to death later. So this is a film presentiment. It shows the
people who will die. We don't know about their death yet. And they
think they will live. They think about a very good and happy life.
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So, as a film, Moi drug Ivan Lapshin exists on many different

levels?
The film exists on two levels. The first is life. And the second is our
knowledge about life. So the film can belong only to our
intelligentsia. Because this is a film for the people who know what
will happen with the people in a certain period of time. And our
position in the film was like a position of God towards the people.
When we shot the film later, we showed my flat in the film, the flat
where I spent my childhood. We brought many things from our
home. I hung portraits of my father and my mother to show that
time mustn't be hostile. It must be good.
Yesterday I was sitting here, and we began to speak about the

1960s. And we said many warm words. We smiled, speaking about
that time, although it wasn't a very good time either. But back in the
1930s, it was something much more complicated. But maybe later,
when we look back on the 1960s, they will also seem somewhat
more complicated than now. So Moi drug Ivan Lapshin is a film
that has a relationship to the 1930s from the perspective of someone
who's living in the 1980s. Probably in the year 2000 the film will
again seem something quite different, like a film stemming from
the 1980s. At least, that's my impression.
Besides your father's story, were there other inspirations that

influenced the making of Moi drug Ivan Lapshin?
This film was inspired by, or leaned quite a bit on, the poetry of
[Boris] Pasternak. There's a great deal in this film taken from
Pasternak. For instance, the "snow against the window." Or the
"boy who goes through the flat on skis." Or even the streetcar. I
don't want to list all the details from the film, but in general this
film embodies the spirit of Pasternak.
Anyway, over the years we speak a great deal about these times and
about these people, although they are not here any more. But the
film does demand a different way of looking at the past, at those
years. One shouldn't go about filming in this way that says I have
shown this, I have shown that. I have shown you, I have shown me,
I have shown him. And I have shown you once more. And I have
shown myself once again. Then you've got something like a
stereotype. And so you've got a very nice film. You've shot a lot of
footage. There's no question about that.
What does that mean, "a different way of looking at the past"?
And how does that affect your method of shooting a film?
We have completely stood away from the average shooting

principle. We kept our distance from this kind of film-making. We
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wanted to show the interior, the spirit, of these times, of these

people. So we thought it over, and we decided to make a film that
appeared like a turntable. So the people see each other. They speak
with each other about this or that. And we're sitting right there in
the middle of this story. And you can tell right away, you can
notice, that sometimes this is said, sometimes that is said. It almost
looks in general as though things are being improvised on the spot.
But in reality we worked very hard on exactly what is being said in
the film. On this or that word. Because really we needed this
sentence for sure. And that sentence too.
How do you position, or employ, the camera during shooting?
The camera is there in order to capture these particular

conversations from this angle of perspective right in the middle of
the action. In particular, the camera is to show this or that at this
special time, and in this special way. After all, a conversation is
supposed to have a certain particular reason or sense to it. For
instance, the conversation with the young man is also a
conversation about the gulag [prison camp]. Someone says
something. And suddenly the question is raised: I'll put you in jail,
I'll throw you in prison. Of course, that's a little bit of a joke. But a
joke set in these very times. And then if you look at it, someone
really did put somebody in prison. In other words, the following
sequence does show that somebody was thrown in prison. So along
these principles, along the principles of a turntable, that's the way
we shot this film.
Are you saying that all the pieces in your film have a precise
meaning within the context of the whole?
What does that mean? It means that if you take away a part of the
film, if you leave out a certain sequence, then the whole film could
easily fall apart. Thus, if you shorten the film, you destroy it. In the
first part of the film, this particular scene dictated a lot that was to
take place, that was to happen.
What kind of person is Ivan Lapshin?
So who is this person, Lapshin?

In a certain way, he is a normal
person. In a certain way, he is a
communist. And in a certain way,
he is a very nice man, a kind
person. You see that he's a
conformist, you see that he's is a
very good man. And there you see
them all marching in step. Left,
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left, left�just like you would find in Wilhelm Busch. And then you
see them standing behind the youth, the boys and the young girls.
And Lapshin recognizes for the first time exactly what he is doing
and where he is at. Otherwise, they're marching straight into
communism. Also, the feeling is shown that there is a certain
limitation.
Is Ivan Lapshin aware of the future, of the coming trials, of the

gulag?
This takes place in certain conversations. For instance, when he

talks to a prostitute, he does know that there are such things as a
concentration camp. But when he something about the possibility
of a concentration camp, he doesn't say that this is a reality. He says
that this is a kind of important thing. It's like this: when he sees that
there's evidence of a concentration camp, he sort of says that it's
there, it really happened, but it's also important. So he's a man who
actually comes out of this time, out of this regime. And this regime
in the end will destroy him, too. He's a good man, and I love him.
Does he know about Stalin? Does he belong in a sense to the
Stalinist times? Yes, he does. Because that's why you see this
picture, this photo, of Stalin at the end of the film.
Which scene or scenes give indication of what is to come?
There's a picture of [Sergei] Kirov [from 1924, head of the

Leningrad Communist Party and the second most powerful man in
Russia] at the beginning of the film. But that portrait is not the key
scene. Although it is in a sense the key scene, but from a different
viewpoint: in that it introduces the beginning of the reign of terror.
In 1934, the assassination of Kirov in St. Petersburg did, in fact,
free the hands of Stalin to begin the reign of terror. And this reign
of terror will in the end destroy all the principle people in this film.
So in a sense, then, the film exists as a kind of indication of what is
to come.
Look how the film begins. It begins with a panorama. Then it goes
to a portrait of Kirov. There on this portrait, on this picture of
Kirov, you see the white band, the white ribbon, of death. The three
knocks that take place at this point also say something. In other
words, the three knocks could represent three shots: bam�bam
�bam! Or they could be simply three knocks on a door. That was a
very nice special effect worked out for this particular scene in the
film. Also, if you look closely at the film, you will see that Kirov
actually appears three times.
Is Moi drug Ivan Lapshin primarily about Stalin and the "Great
Terror"?
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Of course, when you make a film about Ivan Lapshin at this time,
you are also including things that refer, of course, to Stalin. And, of
course, later also to Beria. But on the whole we simply wanted to
show the times. And we wanted to avoid this vulgar way of stating
everything so clearly. Such a vulgarity would be a discussion in the
film about Stalin, or even a way of behavior. We wanted to avoid
all these clich�s, and we wanted instead to dive deep into the lives
of the people. Of course, they talk about certain things. For
example, they talk about the death, the suicide, of Mayakovsky. But
this is always in the background of the film.
Does Moi drug Ivan Lapshin offer the viewer any hope for the
future?
They also talk about how things will look in 1937. Although it's
quite clear that these people are not going to see the year 1937. And
they say they are going to plant a garden, too. And the answer to
that is someone who says: what are you talking about? You know
that you are not able to plant a garden. It will not succeed. And the
reference there is quite clear as well. In other words, the garden is
never brought to fruition, although they wanted it to be brought to
fruition. So in a way they have accused the forces that have made it
impossible to reach these goals. So I don't take blame for the
failures. We simply show that the failures did happen.
After three years on the shelf, Moi drug Ivan Lapshin was
officially released in 1985. How many countries did you tour
with the film?
I traveled a lot. I went to probably two dozen countries. But it didn't

last very long. It happened because of the situation in our country.
And it lasted approximately two years and two months. Because of
that, I had to be sure of myself wherever I went. I had to be clear in
my head.
Did you visit the United States with the film?
I've been to New York and to San Francisco. It was a kind of shock
because I had expected to see something grander. But since so
much was spoken about it, it was more or less like that when I saw
it.
Was Moi drug Ivan Lapshin understood in America?
I met many people who had once lived in Moscow. But they had
lived quite a different life. They had spent some years in Israel.
Then they came back to America. So they had quite a different life.
I saw very few people connected with the cinema. And the films
that I brought were successful only with the immigrants. In
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America I felt that Moi drug Ivan Lapshin was not understood.
How was Moi drug Ivan Lapshin received at international film

festivals?
My colleagues from Switzerland told me that when they saw the

film in Locarno, one person came forward and said that she liked
everything, that it was wonderful. Then she said: now please
explain what it all meant. I replied: when a foreigner is watching a
film like Moi drug Ivan Lapshin, I have the impression that it is the
same thing as when an African is being explained why a...wool
cap...is worn by Russians. And you have to explain why there is
cold weather, otherwise he won't be able to understand. I don't think
that a foreigner who has never been in our country can understand
everything. He can probably feel some expression, or ..., but no
more than that.
How was Moi drug Ivan Lapshin received in France?
In France Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny had been highly evaluated. The
press used such words as "a lesson for the people." So it was
interesting to note how Moi drug Ivan Lapshin would be received
ten years later. The first time it was shown, it was shown only in
pieces. Two reels were lost. But it was given a small prize named
after Georges Sadoul. This debut prize was given to my third film,
instead of to my first one. But the first two films had been
forbidden, so they gave the prize to the third one. I was very
thankful for that.
Ten years ago, I learned quite by chance that Dvadtsat dnei bez
voiny had been shown in France. It happened quite by chance
because our child was watching a news program on television, and
the film director [Sergei] Bondarchuk was being interviewed. He
was speaking about his plans for the future. But in the background
there was a big poster of the film Dvadtsat dnei bez voiny. This is
how I knew that the film had been shown there. And the press was
very good. Then came Moi drug Ivan Lapshin�and the press was
good again. As for the French people, however, I don't think that
they could understand anything. Also, the New York Times didn't
like the film. I don't agree with the view of that critic. But what can
I do?
The Russian critics voted Moi drug Ivan Lapshin very high on
the list of Ten Best Soviet Films of All Time �
Yes, the Russian critics voted Moi drug Ivan Lapshin among the
Ten Best Soviet Films of All Time in a poll taken on the occasion
of 70th anniversary of the Soviet Union. What happened? The
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critics had named different films of Andrei Tarkovsky, such as

Zerkalo (Mirror, 1974) and Andrei Rublev (1966, released 1971).
He could have been declared the winner of the poll, but he was
present on the list with different films. So Moi drug Ivan Lapshin
was voted first place. Personally, I don't consider this film to be
better than Zerkalo or Andrei Rublev, but I can say that it wasn't
unpleasant for me. And you can imagine how many false friends I
received after that.
How did the Russian public respond to Moi drug Ivan Lapshin?
They can be divided into three groups. The first group wrote to me,
saying that I was an idiot. They were very furious, especially when
it was shown on television. Millions of people who saw it were
furious. There was an article in the newspaper before the film was
shown. A good article, saying that you should watch the film, really
watch it, not just come and go. Then, when the film was shown,
some lady made a telephone call, saying that the film should be
burned�together with the director. So the Russian newspaper
Izvestia responded: why should the film be burned? Just turn to
another channel if you don't like it. So a third of the audience was
furious and said that the film was worth nothing.
There was another third. It was very interesting that they headed
their letters with the words: "A Copy to the Central Committee."
Or: "A Copy to the KGB." This third thought they were speaking
the truth about the film-maker. These people were from institutions,
or scientific establishments. And the citizens of .... collected all
their signatures, so that the film-maker would never come to their
places of work. I don't know why the editor was like that. Very
often, their letters started with "Dear Editor" and ended "With
communist regards." All these letters were written by old
Bolsheviks. When I saw that they ended "With communist regards,"
then I knew that a copy of such a letter would be in the KGB files.
I am not being ironic about these letters. It wasn't funny for me at

all. I was really hurt. Because these letters said: "Yes, probably all
those things in the film are right, but we won't give you the right to
show all these things. There were letters with the words:
"Solzhenitzyn with his dirty boots and criminal characters is
allowed to dance on our future and our past. And now you are
allowed to do the same thing, and so on." It was really very trying
to get all those letters.
All the same, Moi drug Ivan Lapshin was awarded a State Prize
and several international awards.
Yes, the film was awarded with the State Prize of the Russian
28 of 36 04/03/2019, 10:27
Federation. But I must say that Moi drug Ivan Lapshin still has its
enemies. And very bad ones. Even now, when I have to deal with
bureaucrats, with high-level ones, I am being told that I distorted,
that I insulted, that I neglected many things. There was an instance
of this not very long ago. Often the attacks happened in embassies.
Are you apprehensive of the current rise of Russian

nationalism?
I think that one thing that can wipe out perestroika, that can wipe
out all the good things that are happening today, is this wave of
nationalism that is sweeping across the country right now. I'm very
much for that the Estonians speak Estonian, that the Estonians
participate of their own culture. I'm also for Estonians having the
Estonian language as the official state language. And that in
Lithuania the official state language there is Lithuanian. I
understand that they should have their own culture. I also
understand that not too many Russians should be living in those
places.
But I'm also against the fact that in certain zones the blame is put
on what the reality shows. That Russians are accused of all the bad
things in certain places. When you point your finger at, maybe, the
Russians, when you point your finger at the Armenians for the
troubles that happened, in many cases it's not the Russians who are
guilty. There shouldn't be pushed to have what we call national
zones. Or that nationalism should be the rallying cry for several
people in one place. And that the national call for hate is a result of
that.
That was always in our country. There were always nationalistic

movements of this sort. This rejection of other people, or other
cultures, leads then, of course, to outbreaks. Then they are put
down again. And now through glasnost, through openness and
democracy, it all comes to the surface. Not only that, it is allowed.
And you can also see that this type of hate, or this kind of national
feeling, is supported in the voice of the people by politicians, the
people in power. It's supported by bureaucrats, and bureaucratic
functionaries support this kind of thing. Also, anti-Semitism is
being supported, too, in a certain form.
Ronald Holloway
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Also of interest
29 of 36 04/03/2019, 10:27
Russian film in Kinoeye and on the web
About the author
Ronald Holloway is a film critic based in Berlin and has

writen for, among others, Variety, The Hollywood Reporter,
Moving Pictures International, The Financial Times and
Herald Tribune. He is the author of a number of books on
cinema, and in 1979 he founded the journal Kino.
return to the Kinoeye home page

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Footnotes
1. Yury Pavlovich German (born 1910 in Riga, died 1967 in

Leningrad) was a prolific writer, dramatist and screenwriter. He is
best known abroad for his stories Lapshin (1937) and Aleksei
Zhmakin (Alexei the Gangster, 1938), both about virtuous OGPU
(Unified State Political Administration) agents tracking down
criminals. In 1947, he was awarded the Stalin Prize for his
screenplay for Pirogov, directed by Grigory Kozintsev.
2. Georgy Tovstonogov (1915-89): His interpretations of the

classics were rivaled only by Yury Lubimov at the Taganka Theatre
Moscow and Anatoly Efros at the Malaya Bronnaya Theatre in
Moscow.
3. Grigory Kozintsev (1905-73): As well as being an accomplished

director, he was an author, dramatist, art theoretician and lecturer at
the Moscow Film School (VGIK) and the Leningrad Studios. His
internationally famous Shakespearean film adaptations were
Hamlet (1964) and King Lear (1970). He also directed Yury
German�s Stalin Prize-winning screenplay for Pirogov (1947) .
4. Grigory (Grischa) Aronov (1923-84) was a screenwriter and

director. He specialized in telefeatures and TV series.
5. Boris Lavrenyov (aka Lavrenev) (1891-1959) was a poet, author

and advocate of the ego-futurist moment in pre-Revolution days.
He is best known for his books Sorok-Pervii (The Forty-First,
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1924) and Sedmoi Sputnik (The Seventh Companion, 1927), both of

which were filmed twice.
6. Konstantin Simonov (1915-79) was a writer, poet, dramatist,

publicist, war correspondent and close friend of Yury German. He
was famous for his war dispatches, his novel Dni i nochi (Days and
Nights, 1944), about the Battle of Stalingrad, and his patriotic
poems, particularly Zhdi menya (Wait for Me, 1941). He won six
Stalin Prizes, a Lenin Prize (1974) and was a Hero of Socialist
Labor (1977) and a member of the Central Committee of
Communist Party (1952-56). In addition, he was Secretary of the
Union of Soviet Writers (1946-50, again 1967-79), Editor-in-Chief
of Novy Mir literary magazine (1946-50) and Literaturnaya Gazeta
newspaper (1950-53). When he backed the publication in Novy Mir
of Vladimir Dudintsev�s Ne chlebom edinym (Not By Bread
Alone,1956), the story of an inventor who struggles against
bureaucracy, he was forced to recant his support when the novel
was attacked by Nikita Khrushchev himself. In his memoirs,
Glazami cheloveka moevo pokeleniya (Through the Eyes of My
Generation, published posthumously in 1988), Simonov describes
how Stalin had closely supervised the content of one of his plays.
7. Svetlana Alliluyeva was born 1926 as Svetlana Josifovna Stalina.

She was a writer, youngest child and only daughter of Joseph Stalin
and a naturalized American citizen. Upon the death of her father,
she adopted the maiden name of her mother, Nadesha Alliluyeva
(1902-32), Stalin�s second wife, who committed suicide. Her
Twenty Letters to a Friend, written in 1963 and published in 1967
on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the Soviet Revolution,
prompted an uproar in the Soviet Union. Other publications include
Only One Year (1969), Faraway Music (1985) and Alien Ink
(1992).
8. The Strugatsky Brothers, Arkady (born 1925) and Boris (born

1933), are popular science-fiction writers, best known for Trudno
byt bogon (Hard to Be a God, 1964), a tale of life in a fascist state
on another planet with recognizable similarities to the Soviet
dictatorship. Of the seven screen adaptations of their science-fiction
novels, three were critical successes: Andrei Tarkovsky�s Stalker
(1979), Konstantin Lopushansky�s Prisma nyortvoga cheloveka
(Letters of a Dead Man, 1987), and Alexander Sokurov�s Dni
zatmeniia (Days of the Eclipse, 1989). A previous version of their
Trudno byt bogon was filmed by German director Peter
Fleischmann under the title Es ist nicht leicht ein Gott zu sein (It�s
Difficult to Be a God, 1989), a German-Russian-French
coproduction scripted by Jean-Claude Carrière.
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9. No doubt, Aleksei German values his theatre experience as the

buttress of his film-making career. He spent his formative years
under stage-and-film director Grigory Kozintsev at the Institute of
Theatre, Music and Film in Leningrad (1955-60), graduated from
the Drama Theatre in Irkutsk (1960-61), and worked as an assistant
director to Georgy Tovstonogov at the Gorky Bolshoi Drama
Theatre (BDT) in Leningrad (1961-64).
10. Sergei Mikhalkov (born 1913) is a poet, dramatist and author of

children�s stories. He penned the lyrics for the Soviet National
Anthem for Stalin and the Russian National Anthem for Putin. He
won a Stalin Prize for play Ilya Golovin (1949). As powerful
functionary in the Union of Soviet Writers, he led the attack on
Alexander Solzhenitzen. He is the father of film director Andrei
Mikhalkov-Konchalovsky (born 1937 in Moscow) and actor-
director Nikita Mikhalkov (born 1945 in Moscow).
11. Vsevolod Meyerhold (real name Karl Theodor Kasimir

Meyerhold) (1874-40) was a stage director, actor, theorist and
avant-garde filmmaker. He collaborated with Stanislavsky at the
Moscow Arts Theatre, 1898-1902. After 1917, he formed the
Theatre October and organized mass performances in factories and
public places, influencing future film directors Lev Kuleshov and
Sergei Eisenstein. Attacked on the grounds of "formalism," his
Meyerhold Theatre was closed in 1938 on the charge of its being
"alien to Soviet art," and he was arrested in 1939. Although details
of his death are unknown, Meyerhold was apparently executed in
Moscow shortly after his arrest.
12. Yury Trifonov (1925-81): Although his parents were

Communist Revolutionaries, they were arrested in 1937-38 and not
rehabilitated until 1955. As the son of an enemy of the people,
Trifonov was denied access to higher education and worked in an
aviation factory until he could gain admission to the Gorky Institute
of Literature, graduating in 1949. Famous for his "city novels," he
achieved international fame with the publication of Don na
naberezhnoi (The House on the Embankment, 1976), a chronicle of
four decades set in a famous Moscow apartment house inhabited by
the Soviet elite. His novel Ischeznovaniye (Disappearance,
published posthumously in 1987) focuses on events in 1937 at the
height of the Great Terror, when innocent people like his parents
were arrested on trumped-up charges.
13. As a former war correspondent, Yury German must have been

heartened by the release in 1953, shortly after Stalin�s death, of a
previously shelved Lenfilm production: Alexander Ivanov�s
Zvezda (The Star, 1949/53), based on a short story by Emmanuil
Kazakevich. A realistic war film with a tragic ending, it depicts the
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heroics of a group of army reconnaissance soldiers behind the

German lines who keep their radio transmitter operating for four
days before being silenced by the enemy. A popular success with
the public, the film inspired a wave of meaningful war stories and
film productions throughout the period of the "thaw" (1956-64). A
half-century later, a remake was produced at the Mosfilm Studios:
Nikolai Lebedev�s Zvezda (The Star, 2002). Just prior to Stalin�s
death, only five feature films had been released in the Soviet Union
in 1952.
14. Sergei Gerasimov (1906-85) was an actor, director, teacher and

author. An actor in the Factory of the Eccentric Actors (FEKS) in
Leningrad, he directed his first film in 1930. Semero smelyk (The
Brave Seven, 1936), dedicated to Soviet youth born and raised in
the new socialist society, is exemplary of Gerasimov�s lyrical
directorial style. Set at an icy Polar station, six Komsomol youths
are unexpectedly joined by a seventh member, who has made his
way to the frozen north on an impulse of adventure and discovery.
The theme of man and nature was to run through Gerasimov�s
oeuvre over three decades from Semero smelyk to U ozera (At the
Lake, 1972), the latter a plea for man�s interrelation with nature
that didn�t sit well with the Soviet censors.
15. Doctor Kalyuzhny (1939), directed by Meyerhold Theatre actor

Erast Garin, who had been cast by Sergei Eisenstein in his aborted
Bezhin lug (Bezhin Meadow, 1935/36), together with his wife
Khesia Lokshina, who had assisted Grigory Kozintsev and Leonid
Trauberg on their Yunost Maksima (The Youth of Maxim, 1935).
Doctor Kalyuzhny is the screen version of Yury German�s play of
socialist awareness, Syn naroda (Son of the People). The Garin-
Lokshina team were adept at filming popular stage productions.
16. Pirogov (1947), directed by Grigory Kozintsev. The story of a

19th-century Russian surgeon, the screenplay by Yury German was
awarded the Stalin Prize. This was the first film Kozintsev directed
by himself after he had separated from Leonid Trauberg when their
Prostiye Lyudi (Plain People, 1945) was condemned by the
authorities for its too-realistic portrayal of the evacuation of
Leningrad during the war.
17. Josif Heifitz (1905-95) adapted for the screen Yury German�s
novel Dorogoi moi chelovek (My Dear Man, 1958), a story about a
man�s commitment to duty and his refusal to compromise.
18. Torpedonostsy (Torpedo Bombers, 1983), directed by Semyon

Aranovich, is widely considered to be one of the best Soviet war
films made. It can be compared to John Ford�s They Were
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Expendable (1945) for its persuasive blend of newsreels and

documentary elements into the fiction story based on real-life
experiences. Torpedonostsy, with its scenes of low-key realism,
depicts the bravery of bomber pilots during their dangerous
missions, while at the same time focusing on the sacrifices of those
at home who shared their fate.
19. Maxim Gorky (pen-name of Aleksei Maximovich Peshkov) was

born in 1868 in Nizhny Novgorod (later renamed Gorky in his
honor) and died in 1936 in Moscow. He was a writer, poet,
dramatist, revolutionary, the profits from his literary works helping
to fund the Bolshevik movement. Gorky�s second play, Na Dne
(The Lower Depths, 1902), brought him international fame. His
anti-tsarist proclamations and active role in the 1905 Revolution led
to arrest and brief imprisonment. From 1906 to 1913, Gorky lived
and worked in exile, returning to Petrograd (St. Petersburg) to write
for Bolshevik publications and participate in the 1917 Revolution.
After a second trip abroad in 1921, for treatment of a chronic
tuberculosis ailment, he returned to Moscow in 1928 to great public
acclaim. As the head of the newly founded Union of Soviet Writers
(1934), he championed the cause of socialist realism in literary
circles. His mysterious death in 1938, while undergoing a medical
examination, has prompted speculation that Stalin had ordered his
death.
20. Yevgeny Schwarz (Evgeny Shvarts) (1896-58) was a writer,

dramatist and screenwriter, famous for his modern fairy tales and
25 satirical stage comedies � e.g., Klad (The Treasure, 1933),
Golyi korol (The Naked King , 1934), Drakon (The Dragon, 1944),
Obyknovennoe chudo (An Ordinary Miracle, 1956).
21. Sergei Yursky (born 1935) was an actor and stage director. He
graduated from the Leningrad Ostrovsky Theatre Institute (1959),
since 1957 a close acting collaborator with Georgy Tovstonogov at
Gorky Bolshoi Drama Theatre (BDT) in Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
22. Vladimir Vengerov (1920-97) was a film director at Lenfilm. A

pupil of Mikhail Schweizer (Moisei Shvejcer), with whom he
collaborated on film projects. Vengerov�s screen adaption of
Viktor Nekrasov�s "new prose" novel, V rodnom gorode (In His
Home Town, 1965), was banned. It�s the story of a soldier who
returns from the front to Kiev and finds it in ruins after the war. His
wife, who had not heard from him for more than two years, is now
living with another man. Vengerov also directed a screen version of
Tolstoy�s Zhivoy trup (Living Corpse, 1969).
23. Published in 1927, Boris Lavrenyov�s Sedmoi Sputnik (The
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Seventh Companion aka The Seventh Satellite) is the story of an old

White General, who was arrested in 1918 in a roundup of bourgeois
elements, then released by the Cheka. Forced to find work to make
a living, his sympathies change, and he joins the Red Army.
Captured by the Whites, he is shot.
24. Yury Klepikov (born 1935) was a screenwriter. Famous for

scripting Andrei Mikhalkov-Konchalovsky�s Istoriya Asi
Klyachinoy, kotoraya lyubila, da ne vyshla zamuzh (The Story of
Asia Klyachina, Who Loved a Man But Did Not Marry Him, 1966,
released 1987), also known as Asino schastye (Asia�s Happiness).
The poignant story of a lame woman on a collective farm, the film
was shelved for 21 years before premiering to critical success at the
1987 Berlinale. One of the major figures in New Russian Cinema,
he also scripted Mikhail Bogin�s award-winning O lyubvi (About
Love, 1971) and Larisa Shepitko�s Voshozhdenie (The Ascent,
1976), awarded the Golden Bear at the 1976 Berlinale.
25. Edgar Dubrovsky was a screenwriter best known for scripting

Alexander Proshkin�s popular hit, Kholodnoye leto �53 (The
Cold Summer of 1953, 1988), the story of an exiled dissident freed
from a Siberian labor camp, whose troubles are only beginning
because hardened criminals have also been released at the same
time.
26. Gleb Panfilov (born 1934): V ogne broda net (No Ford in the
Fire, 1968), his first feature film, was awarded the Golden Leopard
at the 1969 Locarno film festival. Scripted by Evgeny Gabrilovich,
and set during the Civil War, it�s about a young nurse (played by
Inna Churikova, Panfilov�s wife) on a medical train whose naive
approach to the beauty of life is set against the troubled events
around her. The film�s tragic ending was a subject of much
discussion by the authorities before a slightly modified version was
accepted for release.
27. Andrei Zhdanov (1896-1948) was head of the Leningrad Party

organization (1934-44) and a member of the Politburo from 1939
until his death, he was thought to be heir apparent to Stalin when he
died of a heart attack. In charge of ideological affairs, he
championed Socialist Realism in the cinema and campaigned
against "formalism" and Western influences in the arts.
28. Smolny is an elaborate Russian baroque-style monastery in St.

Petersburg. It was begun in 1749 and completed in 1808. Shortly
after the 1917 Revolution, its premises were occupied by Lenin and
the Petrograd Council of Workers and Soldiers.
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29. General Andrei Vlasov was a Red Army General. Commander

of the 99th Division of the Red Army, he had survived Stalin�s
purge of the Soviet military. Captured by the German Army in
1942, he convinced the German command to allow him to form an
"Army of Liberation" of some 50,000 anti-Stalin Russians. Recent
archival research reveals that he was more concerned with the
overthrow of Stalin and the founding of a democratic Russia than
he was in sympathy with the Nazi cause.
30. Margarita Aliger (born 1915) was a poet and writer, winning the
Stalin Prize for Zoya (1942).
31. Osvobozhdeniye (Liberation, 1968-71), directed by Yury

Ozerov, was a plodding, mammoth, five-part Mosfilm production
that eulogized the Red Army in the Great Fatherland War. It was
the Soviet answer to The Longest Day (1962), the American version
of Victory in Europe that had purposely omitted reference to the
sacrifices made by the Russian people to defeat the Germans.
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1988 - Holloway Aleksei German Interview

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Kinoeye | Russia: Aleksei German (Alexei Gherman) interviewed http://www.kinoeye.org/04/04/holloway04.

Vol 4 Printer-friendly version of this article RUSSIAN &

professional obligations at a new studio for young film-makers liudei

the historical record.

Biographical notes are inserted into the interview to throw more

I discovered, too, that before he began shooting a new film, he

Aleksei German, you wear many hats�actor, screenwriter,

Who am I? By profession, I am a theatre director.[9] I graduated

time in the 1930s, a solitary individual was discussed. Konstantin

In which way did he suffer?

How good a writer was your father?

I think that my father destroyed his talent. Because he was a writer

Which were the important screenplays penned by your father?

For example, the famous film Semero smelyk (The Brave

consideration. My wife Svetlana and I began reading his prose very

How many of your father's films were awarded?

Did your father ever meet Stalin?

My father knew Gorky[19] personally, and Gorky wrote an article

Now I want to repeat that my grandfather was an officer under the

Tovstonogov and Kozintsev

Before you became a film director, you worked in the theatre

We had staged a play by Evgeny Schwarz.[20] Georgy

a very progressive director at times, and I was very thankful. He

At a certain period in my life I understood that I shouldn't work

�to study film direction under Grigory Kozintsev.

Kozintsev offered to take me as one of his students in the Higher

Then something happened in a quite traditional way. A list was

Why didn't you enroll in the Moscow Film School (VGIK)?

I can't even tell you if one should be a student of VGIK or not. I

First, he can be an assistant director, then a second director, and

What was your first job in the cinema?

I was an assistant director to Vladimir Vengerov.[22] He was a

Sedmoi Sputnik (The Seventh Companion, 1968)

What was your first film as a director?

I thought it was important to be patient at this time. Also, this kind

What was the theme of Sedmoi Sputnik?

It was a film about hostages. It was a film about the beginning of

In short, we wanted to say in the film Sedmoi Sputnik that the

Why do you feel that Sedmoi Sputnik was a failure?

It was not a very successful film because it was directed by two

Proverka na dorogakh (Trial on the Road / Road Check, 1971/86)

For your first independently directed film, you chose a war

The next film I made was Proverka na dorogakh. It was denied

What inspired you to make Proverka na dorogakh?

Before Proverka na dorogakh I wanted to make Moi drug Ivan

Is it true that Vitaly Akseyanov, the head of the Lenfilm

There was a scandal over my film Proverka na dorogakh. The head

With so many important people supporting you and your film,

As a result, a member of the Politburo, Mazurov, viewed the film

Were you asked to cut anything out of Proverka na dorogakh to

What happened when Proverka na dorogakh was officially

So I went to the State Committee for Cinematography, and I told

Then another letter came, saying that I should be fined 5 percent,

Did anyone in the film profession ever see Proverka na

What happened to this "secret print"? And how is it possible to

When the film was finally officially released, we triumphantly gave

Once I showed the film to my American aunt. She's Russian, and

How did American audiences react to Proverka na dorogakh?

It's interesting to note the reaction of Americans to this film.

problems were being discussed. They liked some of the pictures.

I think it was a great tragedy. Because we had invented many things

Proverka na dorogakh is often compared with Larisa Shepitko's

I didn't notice any resemblance. But Konstantin Simonov told me