Stuff

[scaramouche] Can I see pictures of the lion?

[scaramouche] or at least the terrain?

can’t do that. but terrain can be demolished now. so I need a collapsed version

[scaramouche] that sound cool. whats also new

everything is different, but it is still unmistakably 40k, no IGO-UGO, no double turns,

lots of familiar concepts but with a different, very streamlined, very visual spin.
everything is centered on the unit profile. almost nothing remains untouched. old
codexes are scrapped, armies start with fresh rules in warhosts booklet

[scaramouche] wow. and when does the rule book come out?

don’t know this :(. We have a digital version. but can’t say anything how or if it will be
sold

Roll mechanic
Almost everything works on D6 rolls without rerolls and modifiers. but rolls can crit
and fail critically.

[scaramouche] so no more fate die? isnt i t a bit bland

though crit failure is a bad explanation. ‘half hit’ would be better. it is called glancing

Yes and no. there are rules for rerolls and +-1 modifiers, but they seem to be used
sparingly. I have only seen the Warhost rules and the Space Marines + Blood Angels
and Tyranids rules.
There is a completely new mechanic to modify dice, that is used now everywhere. a
player can have advantage on a roll, making a roll of 6 critical. if you have another
advantage, 5 and 6 are critical. if you have disadvantage on the roll, a 6 is a glancing
score

[scaramouche] sounds like dandD

[scaramouche] that sound cool. so 1 is critical failure, blowing your own heads off

yes, the names are very D&Desque, but there are no rerolls
no, not on a 1, also on 6. the highest roll first. a 1 is just a regular miss. glancing
scores are better than a miss, because they can be converted into a success.

Advantages and disadvantages are subtracted from another, so it can’t be both

glancing and critical at the same time. What crits and glancings do can vary by the
circumstances, but a critical roll counts at least as an additional success. a glancing
roll is a miss, but you can combine it with another glancing score to make a single
success.

[scaramouche] cool

additional effects can be triggered by criticals. but is not easy to get criticals.
generally it is easier to disadvantage a roll than to advantage it

[scaramouche] sounds very mathy

no, it is easy. imagine you roll 6 hit rolls on 3+, you have advantage 1 and
disadvantage 3, so overall disadvantage is two. you roll a 1,2,3,4,5,6 -> 1,2 miss, 3,4
hit, 5 glancing hit, you put it aside. 6 is another glancing hit. you use the 5 to make it a
hit. so 3 hits.if you hadn’t rolled the 5 before, the 6 would be another miss

[scaramouche] so i can use tracer gun to save failures and use em to hit with the main turrrt

works only for attacks with the same weapon profile

[scaramouche] so how dos hitting and wounding work without modificers?

ok, will explain this. give me a sec

Attack sequence
Attack sequence resolves much faster. Batch rolling is mandatory and sequence
consists of only two rolls: hit and save (and possibly a third invulnerable (ward/FnP)
save)
hit roll needed is given in the weapon profile. You don’t have to work out the modified
roll. it is (almost) always the value straight from the profile. However, you have to see
if the roll is disadvantaged before rolling.
this is where the complication starts
Weapons have a different profile. there is no AP anymore, they have hit and
penetration traits. complete new concept

[scaramouche] wow

you have a fixed hit score and roll as many dice as you have attacks. the score is
disadvantaged for every evade trait the opponent has. it is in his profile. you can
negate these traits by hit traits in the weapon profile. unnegated evade traits give you
a disadvantage on the roll. worst thing that can happen is that all rolls count as
glancing, so you need two glancings to score a single hit

two glancings to make one success. if you have only one, you are out of luck. a crit
makes two successes

[scaramouche] oh, so you have to batch roll. and do a lot of calculating

after you have the number of hits, you work out how many damage these hits make.
this is done before the saves
the opponent uses his fixed save score for every point of damage. you can
disadvantage the save roll in the same way as the hit roll, only that it benefits the
attacker in this case.
you can disadvantage the save roll with the penetration traits of the weapon. the
opponent can negate these traits with his armor traits.

[scaramouche] so if i only glance, i get a lighter damage table?

again, you need two glancing saves to negate one point of damage. but a critical save
saves two points of damage at once

[scaramouche] ok, nervermind.

the resulting damage is distributed to the unit. damage spills over, but especially
most melee infantry weapons have a special rule that caps the damage at the target
wound characteristic. thunder hammers, though, can use their flat d2 to plow through
hordes

[scaramouche] damage before safe, thats new.

invulnerable saves come after saves. they are never modified.

[scaramouche] they dont replace saves?

yes

[scaramouche] and no more wounding

number of attacks -> hit roll -> damage -> save -> invulnerable. so yes, damage before
save

[scaramouche] but what if i roll only one damage with a strong weapon, does it get negated?

there is no random damage anymore

[scaramouche] and mortals are gone?

[scaramouche] soubd like a lot of staff to remember

MW are still there and are the only source to circumvent the save completely- best
you can do with the normal attack sequence is to make the armor half as effective

Symbols are used for the traits and symbols make it clear which rule trait counters
which. but they also have names and you need them very much, because you will
communicate with your opponent about this a lot. half of the attack sequence is
talking about your abilities now. the rolling is way faster

[scaramouche] so i have to compare the symbols every time i shoot. sounds like a lot of
book keeping. will tak me agrs to keep this straihgt. or can i simply count the number of
traits. if i have more hit triats, the rolls gets easier?

[scaramouche] right?

[scaramouche] you still their?

No, for every evade trait that is not countered by a hit trait, the roll gets disadvantaged
by one. These symbols have names in the rulebook, but the profiles only have the
symbols. Traits can have tiers, and need a corresponding number of tiers to be
countered. Takes some time to remember all the common weapon profiles.

[scaramouche] ok, this sounds lees wild. prob still have to learn lot of new profiles.

[scaramouche] but once that done, i am good ot go

No. Even harder. Weapon profiles are not uniform. The bolter of a company captain
has more traits besides the better hit value than a henchman bolter.

[scaramouche] how many traits are there? have to learn for save too

1. I have to look, but 4-5 each I think and two generic ones
2. Saves work similarly. Defender rolls. Attacker can use traits to disadvantage the
roll, and defender uses traits to negate this. No more AP

[scaramouche] so rolls go only worse, right? but how can i crit?

there are a couple of rules that grant outright advantages and disadvantages beside
this trait system. the trait system only ever disadvantages to roll. to get critical hits
you need a source to give an outright advantage

[scaramouche] you said that invunls are a third save.

[scaramouche] do i roll saves before ilnvunearbles?

yes, invulnerable saves are like feel no pain in addition to the save. they confer the
shielded trait, though. this is the only counter to plasma weapons, but the save is only
6+ or 5+. only primarchs have a 4+. shadowfield is the only 3+, but it is shit now
[scaramouche] can you tell me, when the lion is released. Is he in this index, so released
before the edition?

[scaramouche] if the damage is fixes, how do blast weapons work?

yes, before

blast is: crit hit: full damage, normal hit: damage capped at the number of target
models, glancing hit: single damage. and blast can destroy terrain

[scaramouche] still twice damage?

yes, in addition to normal crit rules, so twice the full damage. blast crits are scary and
can literally flatten ruins

[scaramouche] I start to get it. crit failure = half damage, crit = double damage. sounds like a
+ 0,5 modifir. thats nice. but also very complicated and bad

Bad, but not that bad. You are not used to it, but you get the hang of it after one or two
games. Greatest problem is to connect the symbols with the names.

[scaramouche] yeah, and all interact

just symbol vs negating symbol, both are visually connected

[scaramouche] would be easier to understand with a image of profile

no, won’t show you. but penetration has a narrow flaming arrow symbol. the armored
trait, that negates it, has a shield in front of the same arrow.

there are once again rules for batch rolling: same weapon profile from same unit to
same target (splitting is still possible) are rolled together

[scaramouche] but the roll one a t a tme was clear with complicated units. why change that

because the damage spills over, you don’t have to roll one at a time

[scaramouche] except for meele weapons

even with these weapons, it spills over. if you hit a marine unit, where one is
wounded, a good melee weapon would still make 2 damage, so potentially killing one
marine and wounding another one with a single blow.

[scaramouche] but you described that the thunder hammer was exeptional

the difference is, that a thunder hammer does this to a one wound unit, too
[scaramouche] and anti-tank weapons like lascannons have the same limit as melee
weapons

no, lascannons do spill over

When rolling 3D6 or similar, for example a single 6 is sufficient to make the roll
critical. But there aren't such rolls outside some specific psychic powers and
invocations and charges

[scaramouche] ok, thanks. but i have to ugrip the basics first

[scaramouche] so, isnt it risky that you tell me all of this?

[scaramouche] i mean, i keep my mouth shut. but still

Nah, that’s not my first rodeo.

[scaramouche] but the list you gave me yesterday. was this m

[scaramouche] ore risky?

And I don’t show you pictures for this reason. This makes the suits really angry.

[scaramouche] so you will take the time and answer all rules questions, but no pictures?

And not only the suits, the devs too.

Which list?

[scaramouche] this list: [19:44, 12/02/2023] John Herting: Launch box, Introduction
campaign, Grand Tournament pack, Space Marines, Tyranids, Space Marine supplements,
Orks, Demons

That was sarcasm. The list is more risky, since it doesn't come from us. But we like
your terrain and would really like to get an upgrade.

[scaramouche] ^^ I see. Rules are fine. Any new background?

I am not an editor. But we can talk about this, too. But we don’t have much material
about this. Most of the stuff is hearsay from the other guys. And we can deduce some
things from the rules.

[scaramouche] for example?

Before we continue, can we discuss, if you want to do this for half the rate?

[scaramouche] Do you have any details about eldar?

no. I don’t know anything about them, just marines, blood angels and generic and
tyranids. but eldar have rules in the warhosts with all the other armies that are waiting
for a codex

[scaramouche] half is a bit much. still have to work. 4€ per hour is ok for me

And how many hours does this take? We want only one version where the top is
damaged and one separate with nothing more than concrete rubble.

[scaramouche] we can do this as last time. I make one piece and if you dont liek it, I will sell
it once I get going. If you like it, I can tell you how long it took.

But this time, I will do some of the payment upfront by sharing things I am
contractually prohibited from talking about.

[scaramouche] I think I can do the damage in 5 hours and the rubble in 10.

Sure. So that’s 240E for all.

[scaramouche] yes. But the rights are still mine

[scaramouche] what’s with the fluff?

The imperium is split in two. The main imperium wants to give up nihilus and
consolidate what it has. The crusade wants to defend and reconquer as much as they
can and are more pragmatic about xenos alliances to achieve this. They effectively
split from the Imperium. That’s where the Sanguinor and Gilliman and basically all the
‘good guys’ align.

[scaramouche] and the eldar?

Sorry, wasn’t told anything about them. Didn’t ask either. Slowly dying out, probably.
The Tau have expanded massively and the tyranids are on the rise and in the
spotlight.

[scaramouche] Did you mean the sanguinor or Dante?

The Sanguinor gets empowered during the campaign.

[scaramouche] Arks of oman?

the starter campaign probably. But this is only what I heard. The Sanguinor is a beast
now, so that fits.

[scaramouche] So you can’t use the Roboute in an Imperium force?

no, it is only background. there is no rule in our material that suggests that. the
Indomitus crusade is its own thing now. Still tied to to the Imperium, but at odds with
the lords

I asked Brian. We can afford 200 Euros.

Rulewise faction composition hasn’t changed.

[scaramouche] when is the edition set? is there a time jump?

Don’t know, probably not.

[scaramouche] What about Farsight? Is the origin of his blade revealed?

1. He will steal experimental tech from the Tau core world and uses it to expand to
several locations in the galaxy. His rebels are instead on frontier duty instead of
Shadowsun. 2. I don’t know.

[scaramouche] Do we get Dark Mechanicum?

No dedicated army list for them in the warhosts booklet, but Vashtorr will succeed
and ascend and claim the fifth arrow of the chaos star, alas a minor one.

[scaramouche] So the Arks of Omen is a Chaos win?

Don’t know the details. Haven’t seen the books. But I hear that at the start of the new
edition the Imperium is forced to abandon the nihilus part. And rivalry over the last
three spikes of the star are a theme for Chaos

[scaramouche] Is this from Arks of Omen?

I think so, but don’t know. This is from people I talk to who know such stuff. Can ask
next time if we get the terrain.

[scaramouche] And Tyranids are the new big bad?

Yes, they are in the new starter.

[scaramouche] What’s in the starter?

Sorry, I won’t talk about that, besides that it is Indomitus vs Tyranids. And I heard that
there is a starter campaign that pushes the story.

[scaramouche] So you do not know?

I do know. But from someone I don’t want to compromise.

[scaramouche] So there are background developments surrounding the Blood Angels?

I think so, but don’t know. This is from people I talk to who know such stuff. Can ask
next time if we get the terrain.

[scaramouche] Does the Necron story progress?

Don’t know.

Told you that I don’t know that much about the background. But we can talk rules if
you want.

[scaramouche] that would be great

I have some time left and can walk you through some more stuff.

Datasheets
Profile is different. First you must make the distinction between battle profile and
roster datasheet. In the roster datasheet there are all the options of the unit. you use
this when you write your army list. the battle profile is a condensed version with only
the options taken showing and some other layout changes. This is what you bring to
the game. Can speak about this later. Regarding the battle profile: it is nicer now. and
it has all the information you need to know about the unit. if it is not in the profile, it
does not exist

[scaramouche] Nice

after the stat block and a paragraph for the general rules are separate boxes for all the
phases. there are all the special rules, keywords and weapon profiles for the
respective phase and the open enhancement slots too.

[scaramouche] so we get pictograms like Warcry?

no, headers have still words, but abbreviations are gone. layout is more aesthetic
than the old spreadsheet style

[scaramouche] Nice

Yes, in the battle profile. The mission pack determines how the composition works,
ranging from the no-soup ‘every unit has to have the same faction’ to the more liberal
‘every unit has to have the same general keyword’ in open games. have to take a
break. can explain this later. there are different detachments that allow you different
things

[scaramouche] Nice
there are 0 accurate rule leaks out there. rumours regarding arks of omen are correct,
rumours regarding starter box contents are laughable, but Blood Angels vs Tyranids
is correct

[scaramouche] So no Lion?

The lion has rules. I already told you. But the rule leaks are fabrications and
guesswork. The stuff about Arks of Omen is correct. Pictures are doing the round for
some time now.

[scaramouche] ah, yes. I am stupid

[scaramouche] Can I get the pictures since they are not from youwhen they are already old
news in your circles?

Maybe later.

As I’ve said, I have to go for now. The Vigil of Blood waits for me

[scaramouche] still on methuselah hunt?

Yes. Cya

[scaramouche] Ok, bye

Hey, do you have time?

[scaramouche] Sure. I am ready.

Great. I have a little bit more time.

[scaramouche] Oh. So let the floodgates open!

Can do that. Shoot me a question.

[scaramouche] I don’t know where to begin

[scaramouche] Space Marines

What?

[scaramouche] this was the first thing that came ot mind. So what does Know No Fear do?

That’s too specific. Have to start with morale. There are changes
Morale
Every unit has a morale phase special rule: first comes a threshold, when it is
triggered. x models lost in a single turn, and then what happens when the morale roll
fails. there are some recurring rules: indomitable (nothing happens except things that
are triggered on a failed morale check), shaken (can’t get advantages), attrition,
broken (unit destroyed) or something bespoke like ATSKNF

[scaramouche] And what does it do?

disadvantage on hit

[scaramouche] So the same as shaken?

no, it is way better than shaken

[scaramouche] so multiple units have this shaken rule?

yes, shaken is a special rules keyword. but the actual rules text is printed in every
profile, too. exceptions are only very general special rules. but you can find these on
the army roster, which is now generated by the app and has all the common rules that
are only abbreviated on the battle profiles

[scaramouche] so USR are back?

no, that’s not a usr. but lot’s of special rules are prefaced with a keyword in bold, for
example: FLAMER: number of shots capped at the target unit size. every flamer type
weapon has this. but some weapons have the same worded special rule, but not the
flamer keyword, d-scythes for example

[scaramouche] in additon to hitting everytime

flamers don’t hit automatically, but have hit 1+, this comes close

so the whole ruletext is still in the profile. But recurring rules have the same name.
probably to make it easier for veterans to see what a special rule does.

[scaramouche] this means, the battle scribe roster get even longer than before?

only a summary of the units is given on the army roster. the details are on the battle
profiles

[scaramouche] these battle profiles are like the AoS unit cards? you have one for every
datasheet?

if you have three intercessor squads, you have three battle profiles

[scaramouche] why do I have to have different cards for the same unit?
Stratagems etc
it’s not just the loadout and psychic powers that differ from unit to unit. you can give
units mission imperatives (secondary missions), stratagems, sometimes upgrades
and relics

[scaramouche] I am sure thatall my pathfinders are exactly the same

[scaramouche] wait, are stratagems and missions loaduot?

of course you still have units, especially if you play a hard boiled list with lots of
spam, that are identical twins, but units can only get a certain amount of buffs and
you can keep track of this on the battle profile. so even in this case there is a (flimsy)
reason for different battle profile cards next to the table. but personally we keep track
of buffs next to the unit. it is easier this way

[scaramouche] so no more Fire and Fade at will?

stratagems are mainly unit upgrades now, but there are generic stratagems available
to more units

[scaramouche] so the startagem crunch is real

no. there are even more stratagems to pick from than before if you play crusade,
which you will do even in pick up games, but you have to buy them for individual
units before the game. and only these units can use them. on a plus side, many
stratagems cost no CP

[scaramouche] they re just regular powers then

you can only use a stratagem once. the buff limit and the stratagems really reward a
diverse army. deathstars are still possible, but buff stacking is a thing of the past

[scaramouche] and the nonunit strtagems?

the generic ones are mostly taken from the last edition, but with vastly different rules.
overwatch lets you retard part of your activation into the enemy turn. there is no
re-roll stratagem anymore

you pay for the option to have a stratagem available with pregame points and a
second time with command points during the game when you want to use it

[scaramouche] how many points do we get?

you only get 2-4 command points per round

[scaramouche] that’s not that different than now

there is a third kind of stratagem: every army has a single one that is available for free
for most units. signature stuff like fire and fade, transhuman, etc

[scaramouche] so i have to remember the standard + 1 opponent stratagem and all they
have written down

indeed. during the game, there are no gotcha moments. your opponent can look at
your battle profiles and see exactly which superpowers your units have

[scaramouche] cool

some of the faction-wide stratagems work only with certain units. so only these units
get the stratagem on their battle profile. working out which one gets it and which one
does not is worked out before the game, aka automatically by the app. during the
game you look simply into the battle profile. if the rule is there you can use it (the
actual rule is written in full on the army roster)

Secondary missions
[scaramouche] hope that works AS GOOD AS BATTLESCRIBE

[scaramouche] ups

[scaramouche] and mission?

mission imperatives are what secondary were before. the primary objective structure
stays more or less the same, but there are no secondaries anymore. instead units can
get quests, mission imperatives. be wholly inside the enemy deployment zone in your
command phase, etc. you can give these missions to your units. these missions cost
RP, too and you want to buy at least 5, but possibly more for redundancy. you can
only score one imperative per turn and no imperative twice. if you score, you get an
additional command point and victory points

[scaramouche] what are RP?

rp is the pre game currency.

[scaramouche] points

you have points and rp

[scaramouche] rp is the thing you use in Crusadeto build your dominion

, isn’t it.

not just in crusade, in nihilus encounter, too

[scaramouche] but what does the extra command point bring, when i get it at the end of the
round?

the command phase is not necessarily at the start of your turn. you activate units and
then you can resolve the phases in any order you like. so the command phase can be
after the movement phase. but if your unit has active buff that it wants right at the
start of its activation, there is a dilemma

[scaramouche] woah, that is a big change

this system is quite neat

[scaramouche] you have to talk about that later. thats awesome. but with the points. you
have two currencies now?

Enhancement slots
relics and warlord traits cost real points, as do upgrades
rp are for stratagems, imperatives, loadout upgrades and campaign stuff. sometimes
you can unlock a deployment style with it, too

[scaramouche] meh, would be better when everything worked with points, why two?

unit loadout is free, but for some units, the better loadout options cannot be picked
unless the unit was upgraded with a rp first

[scaramouche] thats even more crazy. why not do it with one currency?

there are additional rules like chapter tactics, army wide rules, rules that benefit some
units if you have picked a certain character, etc. all these rules are part of the battle
profile, so usually only in an abbreviated version for very common stuff.

[scaramouche] stop, i havnt understand all with the points

sorry :D

[scaramouche] no, go on. we can talk later about points

there is a limit to these unit upgrades. every unit has a certain amount of buff slots
per phase, enhancement slots in 10th’s lingo. some pregame buffs take a slot, most of
the army wide rules do not, and these slots are not available during the game. if a unit
gets several buffs during the game, it has to decide which one it uses

[scaramouche] even more new stuff

tanks and other heavy units have usually very few enhancement slots. most units
have 1-2 slots and troop units have more

[scaramouche] Crushy will love this

unit have a varying number of enhancement slots per phase. they cannot benefit from
more buffs than they have slots. some slots are filled during army creation, so the
battle profile lists only the available ones. pregame buffs cannot be ovewritten

[scaramouche] that sound like a lot of work to configure a unit and write it all down

App
army composition is more complicated than before. there are many more options, but
once it is condensed into the battle profiles, it is easier than before. you can play a
game in 90 minutes even with large armies without problem

[scaramouche] thats great. but hard to believe with all the new systems going on. sound like
you absolutely need digital helpers

there is a blank datasheet in the rules for copying or you use the app for this. that’s
what we were told to do. the app is not finished, but already way more polished than
the 9th edition app. no one will do this by hand. this is more work than creating a d&d
character. with the app, it is only one click and you have your army roster and battle
profiles. and besides the rules, this is everything you need to play your army. no need
for your codex. and no need to know your opponent’s army. just look at his battle
profiles

[scaramouche] ok. putting it thai way, it sounds cool. so the official battle roster is like the
battlescribe roster now

yes, pretty much. it includes commonly used army rules that are too common to
reprint the text on every battle profile, i.e. battle focus, and are only referenced by
name. but most of the army roster is just a cheat sheet for other general rules: names
of the armor traits, how many dice for initiative, which unit size razes which obstacle,
what does cover and how many damage can it take, etc

[scaramouche] army roster + sheat cheat

[scaramouche] wait, inititive is back?

i am sure you are delighted to hear, that battle focus is very powerful. it lets a number
of units overwatch without skipping their activation.

[scaramouche] wow. wow. overwatch like in thte old necromunda rules?

[scaramouche] new battle focus. do we get a codex?

no, from the warhosts lists. the warhosts booklet is not minimum effort work. lots of
rules are reworked. the tyranid and space marine rules are clear precursors of the
codex rules, but with way fewer options.

initiative is a new stat, mainly used in the combat phase

[scaramouche] sounds very different, but cool

yes, army creation is different

[scaramouche] have we Ynnarirules and other subfactions in the booklat?

Subfaction rules
delete everything you know about it from your memory. it is not a useful question to
ask for subfactions. this concept does not exist anymore. units have faction keywords
and the detachment rules define which units you can include. but there is no
‘ultramarines is called a subfaction’, ‘space marine is called a faction’, etc. all these
keywords are just faction keywords. some units have more, some have only three

[scaramouche] So Realspace Raids except that you replace the subfaction placeholder with
the one of the detachment?

What was formerly known as subfaction keywords still exists, but there are no longer
placeholder keywords.

[scaramouche] don't understand

You pick a detachment that is eligible for the mission pack. That tells you all you need
to know what you can include and what not

[scaramouche] ok. faction keywords are fixed now

Sometimes keywords change, i.e. IG in GSC, but keywords formerly known as

subfactions do not. There is no system: ‘choose your subfaction and change all the
keywords’, etc. Rules simply affect all Coven units or all Kabal units and that's it.

[scaramouche] and marines lose their chtpers?

[scaramouche] would it be easier to give me the document?

Most marine units have the Chapter keyword, special characters and units have
Chapter: Blood Angels keyword instead. And special rules affect Chapter units to
exclude the special characters or 'Chapter and Chapter: Blood Angels' to exclude
Dark Angels from benefiting from a blood angels rule. Other rules simply affect
Astartes keyword to work on all space marines. some instances let you chose only
one ‘Chapter: ‘ keyword, but there is no special term for it

[scaramouche] ok, this is slightly easier than before. But can become messy when there are
lots of cross referenses.

I can only say this judging by the rules I know. Don't know how this is will evolve in
the future, but there are many rules during force composition that affect only certain
keywords, i.e. all kabal units get x, but this is then all baked into the battle profile.
During the game there are way fewer rules that affect only certain keywords. Most of
the stuff works on the same condition except some very niche things

[scaramouche] so pre-game buffs are the new cool thing. And ingame buffs trigger on fewer
things

[scaramouche] core still a thing?

exactly. you take a haemonculus and can use him to upgrade other Coven units
before the game. but during the game his invulnerable bubble affects all Drukhari
models. you still have to take a little bit more care when you have allies

Core is gone, but enhancement slots set different limits

[scaramouche] that are the buff limiters, right? But without subfaction, i can soup like i want

Force building
That's because subfaction rules are bound to the detachment and not the keyword.
Ok, have to explain the detachments first

[scaramouche] yeah, just give me the doc :P

every army needs a detachment that is eligible for the mission. so you choose this
first. The detachment tells you exactly what you can field and which additional rules
apply. for open there are seven detachments in the main rulebook, each for a different
force: one for imperium, one for chaos, one for imperium nihilus, for xenos it
becomes complicated. Each simply tells you which keywords are needed to be fielded
and a few options you can take for your units. there is no generic detachment
anymore. you take a devourer detachment and it allows you to take tyranids, GSC and
astra militarum units

[scaramouche] but you said, that i am free to take anything imperium

this is only for the open missions. in other packs, you don’t have that much freedom

[scaramouche] ways to play. Are rhere others?

the detachments eligible for crusade and nihilus are in the codex/warhosts booklet;
these have more complicated force organisation charts. but they also tell you which
units you can field. Sometimes it is easy: an ork warband detachment can include all
units with the ork keyword. Sometimes it gets messy *cough* Ynnari *cough*. but
they don’t have to define what a detachment is called like in the past. it is right in the
title

[scaramouche] and in matched play, you still use only one faction

nihilus encounter is what matched play was before. matched play is now the header
for all mission packs, except grand tournament. crusade is crusade and open is called
baptism of war, but we still call it ‘open’ because we don’t play it to be honest. these
are the three mission packs that are included in the rulebook

[scaramouche] But this will break the monofactions in drukhari

Some armies have multiple detachments, some don't.

[scaramouche] what for example besides Drukhari?

Space Marines have Crusade fleet, Chapter Battlegroup and Host of Angels and
Veteran Strikeforce in the publications I know

[scaramouche] wow

Crusade fleet and Chapter battlegroup are both in Codex Space Marines and
warhosts. Crusade fleet can take Imperium units and all Astartes units, so you can
mix different chapter special units and characters. Chapter battlegroup can only take
marine units with the Chapter keyword and you can choose a single Chapter:
keyword, Chapter: Space Wolves, Chapter: Black Templars, etc. so you can include
everything generic and special characters/units from one chapter

[scaramouche] and the monofaction detahcment has more buffs because less varietee

Chapter battlegroup confers better rules, yes

[scaramouche] so you choose a chapter detachment and get the chapter traits

[scaramouche] and every detachment has its own chapter stratgems?

No, you don't choose a chapter per se. There are generic doctrines like in the imperial
guard codex. you can play a blood angels support company list if you want

[scaramouche] oh, big change

Stratagems, relics, secondary missions have keywords, too. The detachment tells you
which ones you can use. In the Blood Angels supplement are relics and traits that you
can also use in a generic chapter.
[scaramouche] and all these rules are free at the start of the edition?

I still don’t know. But when was the last time GW has given you something for free?

[scaramouche] what are the other marine detachments?

Host of Baal is in the supplement. it is for an army with all Blood Angels successor
chapters combined. for a Blood Angels army you will still use the Chapter battlegroup
detachment from the Space Marine codex. but the supplements give many more
relics, stratagems and other options for the detachment

[scaramouche] but how can this work, if theer is no blood angels detachment in codex blood
angels? Is there a reason gor this weird structure

simply because the detachment allows you to use relics, etc. with the Chapter:
keyword you have chosen for the detachment. But there are no Chapter: Blood
Angels options in the Space Marines Codex, just smurf and smurf fanboys. so it is a
pretty hollow detachment for the angels unless you have the supplement

[scaramouche] but in this detachment i cannot use generic stratagrms and the others
specific stuff

no. in the Chapter battlegroup you can choose units and options with the Chapter or
one of the ‘Chapter: ‘ keywords, in this case Chapter: Blood Angels. but there are no
Chapter: Blood Angels units or enhancements in the codex. very rudimentary
versions of the named characters and units are in the warhost booklet, but the
options and the fleshed out version are in the Blood Angels supplement

[scaramouche] has codex blood angels all the generic firstborn and primaris units?

Supplements have only the additional units and stratagems and other enhancements.
Also some generic ones. no reprints

[scaramouche] but the generic things are only for blood angels, like the mini-thunderhawk?

no. it does not matter in which publication the stratagem or psychic power is
released. if it has the Chapter or Chapter: Blood Angels keyword, you can use it in
your detachment. In both the Codex Tyranids and Codex Space Marines are options
for other armies, that are themed around the codex they are in. there is an ork warlord
trait called Snagrid’s luck in the marine codex, that let’s you wreck a terrain feature,
which is a reference to the fate of the Crimson Hands

[scaramouche] thats fucked up. So an smurf olayer has to buy all the supplements for all the
other chapters, too.

[scaramouche] are there plenty of eldar option, so their codex is probalbie far away?
no, it is pretty randomly distributed. don’t think you can deduce which codex come
first

[scaramouche] sad. But ok. So if the generic detachment has all the blood angels stuff
anyway, what do the ones in the blood angel codex do?

Host of Baal has a slightly different force organisation chart. Most detachments have
a similar structure to arks of omen. but this has additional fast attacks slots for jump
troops from the start

Veteran strike force is released in Codex Blood Angels, but can be used for every
chapter. It is similar to a Chapter battlegroup, but firstborn units only

[scaramouche] and these are toruney legal or like the old formations optional?

Grand Tournament has its own detachments, coming with its seasonal packs

[scaramouche] oh. Can you talk about the blood angels chapter traits?

Blood Angels have no additional chapter rules

[scaramouche] ok, i understand. because marines have guard doctrines. So about GT rules.
Can you soup?

in grand tournament you can pick only from a single faction. Most detachments have
no option for allies, but some have where it makes sense: crusade fleet, realspace
raid and harlequin, Ynnari, GSC and guard, CSM and demons, etc. but it is not
phrased as ‘allies’. the text simply tells you which keywords you can take

[scaramouche] But if my faction is drukhari, can I still use harlies?

you don’t play a certain faction anymore. this is wrong way to think about it. you play
a certain detachment, that happens to consist of unit mainly from a single faction. but
there are sometimes more than one detachment for a single faction. drukhari have 4.
so you are not going to a game and say: I play drukhari. You go there and say: I play a
realspace raid

[scaramouche] i want to hear more about GT. Is it different from the other ways to play

Mission packs
Grand tournament is it’s own thing

[scaramouche] thats already clear

but all the other game modes are grouped under matched play
baptism of war (= open) is a very rudimentary introduction pack with most systems
switched off. crusade is the real deal now with lots of options. the biggest difference
is that you can build an appropriately costed upgraded force from the start. if you
want to join an ongoing campaign or simply want to play with all the toys. i guess that
this will be the new standard mode of play, since most options from the old matched
play are now crusade exclusive. in nihilus encounter, you only get options with the
nihilus keyword and those are not many

[scaramouche] but how can this be fair if you play campaign vs matched?

if you use the campaign system, the point limits of your game rises with your
progress. it destroys some of the cleverness of the old system

[scaramouche] so these new modes. they have to reprint the same thing over and over
again

no, the options are not listed under the mission pack. the options are open for all
mission packs and listed under matched play. then come the three mission packs,
which use the systems in different depths. the mission packs dictate which one you
can use. Open does not use stratagems, secondaries, other psychic powers than
smite, etc. think of it this way: everything is written for crusade, which can be played
as stand alone games now. nihilus is a better balanced version. all the game
mechanics are there, but the options are really limited. Open has most of the
advanced mechanics stripped out to learn the core game

[scaramouche] is boarding action gone?

boarding action is a mission pack in Warhosts, but we haven’t played it. not our
focus. and very rudimentary

[scaramouche] and the ark detahcment

yes, it is still there. detachments have additional limitations if you use them as a
starting army in a crusade campaign

[scaramouche] travelling players is safe, too?

combining detachments is dead. you don’t build your army consisting of different
detachments. you follow the force organisation chart of a single detachment.

[scaramouche] but this is only for matched play?

every mission pack

[scaramouche] bah, dont want that the GT type of players ruin the game for the majority
matched play is now the supercategory for everything that is not grand tournament.
all the advanced rules are part of matched play, especially the campaign rules. but
only certain mission packs use it

[scaramouche] so open, narrative, matched is gone, but the concepts still exists, but with
different names. and gt is now something else. sounds stupid

yeah, weird. but there is only matched play and grand tournament. but matched play
has different mission packs
crusade and open are now matched play packs, so pretty much alive. it is just a
rebranding. in the rulebook are baptism of war, nihilus encounter, crusade mission
packs

[scaramouche] and nihilus is like the old GT packs and gets replaced every 6 month

hmm, haven’t thought about this. maybe nihilus is seasonal and will be replaced in
the future with another mission pack. might be true, but I don’t know.

[scaramouche] ok, but for pick up games, this nihilus is the baseß

again, crusade is the real deal now, vastly expanded with different mission types.
nihilus is only a stripped down version of it without the buildup shenanigans. open
play is even more stripped down. there are no power levels anymore.

Points and ressources

[scaramouche] ok. sounds strange. but i can see them used matched play to convince
players that this is also a balanced game, so that not everyone if flocking to GT. If crusade is
the new narrative but is compatible with nihilus/old matched, how does this work with points
and power levels

everything uses points now. but most squad options cost no points, so it is easier
than before. relics cost points now, though

[scaramouche] wow. power level gone is great.

there are two additional resource systems that are used in some matched play packs:
requisition points, which are pre-game command points now, and command points,
which are generated each turn. requisition points are used in both nihilus and
crusade as pre game currency instead of pre game command points, but most of the
cool stuff is locked to crusade. also stuff you would deem integral to the army flavour
now

[scaramouche] you said, open is still a thing

in open play, you ignore the loadout restrictions that are hidden behind a rp tax. Other
options like secondary missions are not used.
in nihilus encounter you have not enough rp to unlock the best gear for all units if you
use heavily customizable units. But you can use points to buy more rps. as before,
crusade has additional ways to accumulate and spent rps

[scaramouche] so all units use plasma and lascannons now

no, some of the better options have to be unlocked with requisition points

[scaramouche] you mean. i buy a unit for x points, but can only buy the cheap stuff like
grenade launchers. and if i want the good tech, i have to spend a rp

yes, per unit. spend a rp to unlock the option for power fist, lascannon and plasma
gun.

[scaramouche] wow. great.

[scaramouche] and GT is the fourth mode?

[scaramouche] still there?

Grand Tournament
Grand Tournament Pack: completely detached format, way more rigid. no roster
datasheet, only pre customized battle profiles: so no squad size, army wide rule
variation, etc. some units have stratagems, warlord traits, relics, psychic powers and
secondary objectives attached, some don’t. Some units have several grand
tournament profiles for different points with different options. we were told that there
will be a rotation, not every non-codex or old unit gets a profile every season, but
some do. Only customization is weapon loadout, which is freely chosen before each
game. predefined terrain for each mission, drawing from a terrain set, each player is
expected to bring two season sets, four sets make a table. so expect to spend on
terrain what you save in miniature purchases... over and over again

[scaramouche] uh, big change. so gw is making different army lists for GT?

Grand tournament does not have roster datasheets. it is just the battle profiles

[scaramouche] So list building is more like a card game.

instead of a model pictures, there is a schematic with base size, height and width of
the model

[scaramouche] but you can still unlock options with requisition?

no, it has nothing to do with matched play. None of the options are valid in GT. there is
some overlap, but nothing is cross referenced. it is as if someone has picked and
customized the units for you and you can only choose which units you want to field.

[scaramouche] wow. maybe this is the first time, GW can balanec this game. and we
ordinary types can keep all our toys and are no longer forced to accept bairnuckles tourney
play as the default

you can pick the weapons of the tactical squad right before the game. it is a sideboard
of a kind
you don’t have to unlock the options. there are no rp. it either has the option or it is
omitted

[scaramouche] so tourney guy has to bring all the weapon options for his tac squad to be
prepared. or be be really good with mngets. sound like a lot of costs in addition to the other
materials like codixis

you don’t need a codex. all the army rules are in the booklet. there are not that many.

[scaramouche] why is GW doing this? they are splitting the player base in half

[scaramouche] how different are the units from normal 40k

mostly copy and paste from the codex

[scaramouche] but this can lead to some very cross reference problems when the systems
diverge over time

no, you really don’t need the codex. in fact, the codex would be of no help, because
GT is not mentioned there. the GT profiles are not included

[scaramouche] but you still have to buy the codex to get access to the rules?

you buy the GT pack and get the rules for all armies

[scaramouche] how much does this cost?

i don’t know

[scaramouche] have to keep track of two systems is a waste

army construction is pretty easy. even easier than open. don’t know why this isn’t
used as an introductory game

[scaramouche] yea, but twice the work

App
The transition from roster generation (vastly complicated) to gameplay (easy
bookkeeping, you just need your battle profiles) is essential for the new system. I like
this. you don’t have to bring anything else to a game than the battle profiles and the
core rules if you are still learning and you are good to go.

[scaramouche] ok, sou ds not bad if you put it this way

it is similar to a roleplaying tabletop game. character generation takes ages, but the
rules at the table are not that complicated once you are done

[scaramouche] except you are playing DSA :D then it is complicated on every level

don’t know this game

[scaramouche] it is a German roleplaying simulation. great world, but terrible rules. lots of
bookkeeepin. dont want to have this in 40k, or any game

most of this is done in the new app

[scaramouche] is the app locked behind Warhammerplus?

don’t know how this works. we don’t get this kind of information and for us this is free
obviously. but we use the app for testing since it is important. had to buy a used
galaxy, since we don’t get an ios version

[scaramouche] so, 40k isnt playable without the app

you can do it all by hand if you want. there are blank battle profile sheets, but who
wants that?

[scaramouche] I know someone who does his army lists with excel

[scaramouche] any other app upgrades?

i really don’t know what is added. we use a stable version for several months now. it
is just an army generator, battle profile viewer and rules encyclopaedia. nothing
different from the old app, but way better in every respect. the core rules are better
searchable and proper cross referenced, but still not exactly on wahapedia level, the
battle profile viewer is the greatest improvement. completely eliminates shifting
through your codex

[scaramouche] ok, so they main advantage is, that it keeps track of both army creation and
in game referencse

army roster and battle profiles are generated automatically.

the roster builder is improved, too, but just quality of life improvements and a better
layout

[scaramouche] is this also fro crusade

the app works now with all mission packs

[scaramouche] and have you pay extra for the mission packs?

everything was unlocked for us. don’t know how this works after release

[scaramouche] ok. can I ask alittle bit about the game now. we talked so much about the
logistics, but lets start with terrain, since you want useful kits

Terrain
terrain is different now. first it can be destroyed. And it can be upgraded. And the
actual rules are super tight, no more keyword soup

[scaramouche] that much was clear

every terrain piece is only defined by its footprint and whether it is light, hard or
fortified and whether it is area, landmark or obstacle. you also need to discuss what
happens when it is destroyed. usually you remove the feature or replace it, but the GT
terrain kits work in a way that you can remove a part and the footprint and rubble
remains. you can also replace the terrain with craters or homemade rubble. but you
have to decide before the game, which rules the replacement terrain used and where
it is placed.

[scaramouche] good for third party terrain makers

[scaramouche] what are landmarks?

it is beneficiary that both pieces have the same footprint. this is the point of this
whole show

[scaramouche] yea, makes it easier. but real customizable terrain, maybe with sockets and
magnets will be hard to make. can you give me pictures of your gaming table with official
terrain?

no, we didn’t get one. but there are pictures. we play with our own terrain and
cardboard footprints. that’s why we want your help

[scaramouche] ok, when there are not so many rules, you have more freedom when you
create something. easier on the gaming table too
yeah, there is nothing more to talk about before the game. most of this is pretty
straight forward. light, hard, fortified is a no brainer. the only roadblock is to
determine what happens with destroyed terrain. you have build two battlefields at
once.

landmarks is all terrain where you can’t place (or can only place few) miniatures on
top.

[scaramouche] is this like 4th edition with very abstract rules?

line of sight stays more or less the same. but the concepts are more clearly put.

[scaramouche] shame, missed opportunity

except that it is worded on a unit basis. able to draw a line from any part of the unit to
every part of the target unit -> it is not obscured. if you cannot draw a line from any
part to any part in the target unit -> hidden. so it is hard to hide a unit. it heavily favors
the attacker, but cover is much stronger, offers both bonuses to hit evasion and save.
but enemy units within 6” ignore cover and there are not benefits for melee
whatsoever

[scaramouche] is the tourney wall abuse still possible?

yes, you can still use terrain in this way. this was not fixed. but it is harder to pull off
since you no longer can walk through walls

[scaramouche] ouch

you only get cover if you are 1) wholly inside area terrain (not necessary to be
obscured), 2) within 3” of an obstacle, landmark or area terrain and obscured. units
directly behind terrain that can hide at least one model from cornering enemies are
pretty safe. it is very uneconomical to shoot at them. but it is hard to hide a unit
completely

[scaramouche] and ruins are still obscuring

there is no rule like that. windows are windows

[scaramouche] oh. back to laser pointers and fiddly yard sticks

all distances are measured flat, a unit can move up up to its allowance in addition to
its horizontal movement, and infinitely down.

[scaramouche] wow. but this allows for some pretty wild movements

a marine can move 6”, climb over a 1” barrier and then climb on a 5” ruin and jump
down 10” on the other end, all in one move. but he can’t climb on a 7” ruin
[scaramouche] but then you measure vertical. you said it is only flat measuring

this is correct. was worded wrongly. you measure both vertically and horizontally and
use the larger value, no diagonal ranges

[scaramouche] sounds easy

models must fit all the way where they move.

only models with the fleet keyword (infantry-like units up to marines, but not
terminators) can ignore this. so infantry effectively ignores most obstacles except
high walls and certain other models, while even minor obstacles are impassable for
other units, since they cannot fit on top of the obstacle and in the air and thus cannot
move across. but they can go right through these barriers and destroy them in the
process

[scaramouche] but than tanks can never go up

wrong. vehicles can use slopes to reach higher ground

[scaramouche] ok, yes. but they cannot climb if i understood coirrect

[scaramouche] but thn tanks can still not move over barricades

every player can bring one obstacle and one large terrain. this can be a free one and
or one bought for points. in every mission there are specified areas where they can be
placed, usually 6” from your deployment zone for the large one and at the edge of
your deployment zone for the obstacle

[scaramouche] you have to bring your own terrain?

in addition to the normal terrain. some missions show vaguely where terrain should
be placed, others are completely open. there is no special terrain required outside GT

[scaramouche] so i can bring a webway gate. but what about necron players who have no
own terrain

you are encouraged to build them as you see fit within the size limitations. there is
even an example for a building that hides a knight. this building can be upgraded and
some armies rely on this in the first turn

[scaramouche] are the boards symmetrical?

not symmetrical, GT is symmetrical

[scaramouche] and in GT, only the official buildings are allowed?

yes, in principle. but you can only choose between buildings that have a GT profile.
and then you have to use the actual kits. but you have to bring half a full terrain kit
anyway, so playing turneys will be expensive anyway

destroying is a thing. depending on the size of the unit you can go through obstacles
and they are removed.

[scaramouche] the ork in me, loves this

light obstacles are destroyed by everything beginning by marines (solid), hard

obstacles are removed by anything as large as a tank (this includes terminators),
fortified obstacles need a super-heavy. areas and landmarks are harder to destroy,
you need a tank to destroy light areas and a super-heavy to destroy hard areas and
fortified areas cannot be destroyed

[scaramouche] wow

you can shoot at cover with blast weapons and weapons with the demolish special
rule. must score a number of wounds in a single turn to make it damaged. damaged
terrain counts as light. if light terrain or damaged terrain gets shot, it is destroyed

[scaramouche] maximum carnage

[scaramouche] what do we do with old terrain

there is a plastic token set. it has crushed walls markers for this purpose.

[scaramouche] oh, is this for GT or normal play?

i don’t know if they are part of the GT set or a separate release. I bet the latter,
because it is also used in matched play

you can damage terrain and than destroy it by smaller units than normally necessary
by moving through it

[scaramouche] what are smaller units? base size < 32mm

[scaramouche] and the new terrain has all this build in

the terrain kits have removable sections to make it damaged and destroyed. at least
the reinforced buildings

[scaramouche] and whats avaialbe for you

there are two sets. similar baroque meets favelas meets imperial tech style but
different buildings. one is from the starter set, one from the GT pack. both have
detachable elements

[scaramouche] did they give you a terrain info sheat?

you can see the starter terrain in the picture section. there is a nice group shot of the
starter box contents. and we know the GT terrain layout

[scaramouche] can you show me?

no

[scaramouche] that would be helpful for my work

[scaramouche] at least the terrain

[scaramouche] so you have a full blown core rule book?

There are the things we should have, this is rules only. And there are the things we
get from Oliver and his wife. These are the pictures and release info stuff. But we are
not supposed to know this. And I can’t share these because it might bring them in
trouble. The only pictures we have officially are icons from the app and terrain layout
schemes.

[scaramouche] Is Susan ok again?

[scaramouche] Can you share those? Would really love to see what's in the box.

The secondary infection really got her, but she is better now. The kids are back, too.

[scaramouche] Corona sucks. But good to hear.

Yeah, I had it twice. And Anastasia once. But only mild.

[scaramouche] Blessed by Papa Nurgle

Won’t share the pictures, but I can describe the terrain a little bit more. Just stick to
the old files and modify them.

[scaramouche] ok, i get it. but if i create this from scratch, i will come never close to the
official. this wouldnt be a legal table

you have to discuss before the game what terrain you use for destroyed terrain. if you
have old inflexible terrain you can simply remove it when it is destroyed or say the
destroyed terrain has the same rules as the intact. the former is what you are doing
with obstacles anyway. but you can also use craters for destroyed areas.

[scaramouche] this is like a nesting doll. you damage the damaged terrain and get even
more damaged terrain

destroyed terrain cannot be damaged again, but can still be used for cover and as a
movement blocker. it uses the same rules except that it cannot be destroyed again

size is a keyword in every datasheet or profile. it is not very granular

light for most infantry, solid for marines, gravis and lighter vehicles, heavy for tanks
and terminators, super-heavy and titanic

[scaramouche] ok

the size is also important when you want to move through models. you can move
through light and solid models of your own faction. and heavys can move through
light enemies, but cannot stop on top

[scaramouche] nice

this is important because you activate your units one after another. otherwise the
game would end in a traffic jam

[scaramouche] wow. 40k has finally arrived in the 2000s rulewise. no more 30 minutes
standing idle

no, still IGOUGO

Activation
[scaramouche] meh

the game structure is different, battle rounds and turns stay as they are, but within a
turn units are activated one at a time and go through all the phases before the next
unit is activated. but it is still all your units in your turn before the other player gets
his turn for all his units

[scaramouche] the flexibiliti is nice

certain units can be activated at the same time, mostly a character and a designated
unit

[scaramouche] like in the AoS season?

the order in which the phases are played can be determined by the player. he can
move, shoot and then use command abilities or shoot, charge, fight, or fight, move,
shoot

[scaramouche] thats abig one

Timing is very important. you want to activate your buff pieces first

[scaramouche] will be a steep learning curve i geuss

units can skip phases and this is important and a deliberate choice. weapons with the
heavy special rule for example get disadvantaged unless they skip the movement
phase, so no movement before or after. it is also important for interventions, doing
stuff in the enemy turn, which trigger on unskipped phases

[scaramouche] sounds like a nice way to solve lots of theold ambiguities

[scaramouche] so Leman Russs are back to being stationary bunkers

fight phase cannot be skipped if enemy units are in 1” at the end of activation

[scaramouche] why is this relevant?

no, a lascannon on a leman russ is no longer heavy. weapon profiles can vary from
unit to unit. the hit score is also part of the weapon now and obviously changes by
who wields it

[scaramouche] cool
Interventions
heroic interventions are now used for more than characters. so i guess, they are not
that heroic anymore and called simply interventions. they interrupt the activation and
the enemy can play one or more phases of his own

they are used to fight back and for overwatch. some stratagems allow this for other
stuff

[scaramouche] I am glad, that they nerfed overwatch. Not keen of a return

overwatch is different from before. a unit can use a 0 CP stratagem and skip all its
phases, but than can intervene after enemy movement or shooting phase with own
shooting phase

[scaramouche] so the same as before, but differently worded

no, you can’t use it to defend against charges anymore. overwtach triggers at the end
of movement or shooting. charges are done in the movement phase. unless the
enemy is stupid enough to shoot before moving, which would allow you to shoot
before his movement

[scaramouche] Wow. 2nd edition is back. that is fanatstic. but sucks for melee troops

yeah, lots of changes.

[scaramouche] and heroic interventions are for units now

every unit within 6” of a unit that has fought can intervene now

[scaramouche] mom, my kid is awake

sure

[scaramouche] re

[scaramouche] ok, so why do you need a heroic intervention to fight back

first we have to talk about the fight phase.

[scaramouche] ok

Initiative
oh, and there is an initiative stat in the profile again. It is like the other stats a dice
score.
[scaramouche] everything is a dice value now

no, movement and wounds are not dice scores. but morale, initiative, save and hit in
the weapon profiles are

[scaramouche] ok, so a stat only for something that worked ok without. seems clunky

initiative is used for fight back in fight phase, roll offs, sometimes to avoid mortal
wounds

[scaramouche] ok, like that. eldar should do good

some weapons roll against initiative instead the save value

[scaramouche] nice

Fight phase
ok, back to the fight phase: melee weapons have lots of attacks, but normally you
only fight in your own turn.

[scaramouche] oh, wow

melee weapons have reach, which indicates how many friendly models can be
between them and the frontline in order to attack. most units have reach 1 and it
works as before: you can attack if you are near a model in contact. but some weapons
have a larger reach, so can attack if there are multiple models between them and the
model in contact. and short range stuff like digital weapons need you to be directly in
contact, that means within 1”

[scaramouche] so wych weapons work only in direct contact. that sucks

combat knives and daggers have reach 1, work as before

[scaramouche] good

weapon types are gone. though, some remain as a special rule, heavy and pistol for
example
[scaramouche] but why is this so complicated?

you charge in the movement phase, so you can charge, fight and if the enemy is
destroyed, shoot. or you can shoot first, move, then fight. if you have already foes in
1” because the enemy charged you last turn, you can fight and then retreat, or if the
enemy is destroyed, move as normal. this is usually where the fight back happens

[scaramouche] wow. really cool

however, everytime after a unit has finished its fight phase, you can try to intervene
with one of your units. both units roll off with their initiative value

[scaramouche] ah, now it makes sense

both roll 6 dice and use their initiative score. then they count their success. this roll
can be advantaged with special rules as normal. If the intervening unit wins, it gets a
move phase for a pile in move and a fight phase. after this the activation continues

[scaramouche] cool. but why is the pile in in the moevment phase

a pile in move is a 6” to bring models into contact. one model has to end in 1” and the
rest has to move closer to the enemy. if this is not possible, the move cannot be
performed.

[scaramouche] don’t understand

units do not pile in as an extra movement. they can voluntary make a pile in move in
their own movement phase if they are already bound in combat but want move up
with additional models. but this is instead of other moves and then their movement
phase is used up

[scaramouche] so the enemy charges, you can fight back if you have a high initiative and at
the start of your turn, your unit can make a pile in move and fight again

yes, the intervening unit moves up and fights. and then in its own turn, it can fight
again

[scaramouche] my eldar love this

slow units fight only in their own turn, but can do at the beginning of the turn, so they
may fight free

[scaramouche] so many possibilities

units with a high initiative have a chance to fight back and then fight again at the start
of their turn. this is very deadly

[scaramouche] yeah, figured that out. was does strike last do?
there are no strike first and last effects anymore

[scaramouche] bummer. so can you consolidate after the figh?

there are no consolidation moves and pile in moves are as explained something
different, and are part of the move phase and not the fight phase, except in an
intervention, but this is technical also a move phase and then a fight phase nestled
into the enemy turn

[scaramouche] why cant you simply move in your fight phase?

no, some actions are only possible in the appropriate phase. so a phase opens up,
with all the ramifications

[scaramouche] so this is for game purposes, to have proper triggers. But what if you can
intervene in a already intervened phase. This is inception level stuff.

good question. have to ask my group. maybe a loophole. maybe it is fine

[scaramouche] I have to delete my prior knowledge

you have to really plan your turn because you have so many options in which order
you do things

[scaramouche] yeah. that sounds great

attacking a line of drukhari is scary as hell now

[scaramouche] yeah!

timing is everything

[scaramouche] ok, get it

Movement
all units can go through everything that is smaller than a tyranid warrior. tanks can
even go. through lighter stuff of the enemy

[scaramouche] yes, you told this already

my finger are bleeding and my head spins. can’t remember everything I have already
told you
there are only 5 movement types. and there are almost no movements outside the
movement phase and fight interventions. so you touch your dudes only once per turn

[scaramouche] sorry. I wanted to say that I am awake and pay attention.

[scaramouche] twice, when you have to remove it

:D yes, but I am too good to let my models die

[scaramouche] With your play time, this should be ecxpected

common movement types are: move, run, charge, pile in, retreat

[scaramouche] oh, charge in the movement phase now

charges are movement +2D6”, must end in 1” of enemy, if this is not possible, can
make a normal move (but not a run move) in another direction

[scaramouche] so i can go in the opposite direction. hmm

pile-in can be done when enemy is in contact or as a fight back intervention when you
are within 6” of an enemy. 6” move that has to end nearer to the enemy and if no
models ends in 1” of an enemy, it is canceled

[scaramouche] ok, this probably speed up the game. i like this

retreat is a normal move that ends outside 6”. has to skip shooting and psychic
phase, so this means not before and not after

runs and move are the same as before

[scaramouche] sounds very streamlined

you are very free on the battlefield. there are no general movement reductions and the
vertical movement is effectively free

[scaramouche] cool

units on higher levels are very effective because other units take several turns to
reach them, but they can reach the other units very quickly.

[scaramouche] take the high ground!

yes, anakin knows

[scaramouche] so this edition will be an infantry fest, when they are safe on higher levels
Command points
you can give some units like invictors a stratagem to traverse terrain like light infantry

[scaramouche] sounds very situational. but the image of a dread climbing a ruin like king
kong is funny

do not remember if this one costs command points. there are lots of stratagems that
are free. you are still limited by requisition points and because you can only use the
same stratagem once per turn

[scaramouche] per turn or battle round?

i have to check. i think it is turn, because of defensive stuff is useful in both turns

[scaramouche] I still don’t see, why they have to hide unit abilities behind stratagems

it allows you to have a really awesome unit that behaves as cool as in the fluff, but
you cannot spam it as easily

[scaramouche] ok, makes sense. how many cps do you get?

the number of command points depends on the mission pack: in crusade it is 2 per
battle round, +1 for going second and +1 for fulfilled secondary

[scaramouche] what do the standard stratagems do?

overwatch is free, but is not done before charging anymore. you place a unit into
overwatch. there are special rules to put additional units into overwatch

[scaramouche] yeah, I know.

Cut them down lets you intervene with a fight phase, before a unit retreats, so you can
fight immediately. but there are no pile-in moves in the fight phase, so if the fight
already broke up with only one model in contact, it does you no good

[scaramouche] sounds very stromg

retreats are easier now because you can move through light and solid models, forgot
that one during this move

Insane bravery lets you ignore disadvantages on a morale check

[scaramouche] oh, a nerf. great

Counter attack lets an unit in 6” of any unit fight back, not just the one the opponent
has activated. you do not have to roll for initiative.
[scaramouche] ok, so i can strike before the enemy

still triggers on an enemy fight phase

[scaramouche] ok, but then it does nothing except avoiding the I roll

no. it is very important, because you can do lots of stuff with the right timing. if your
enemy fights at the start of the turn, you can take another unit far away and go into
combat. bonus points if the unit you have attacked has been activated already: bam,
you are now immune to shooting. you have to be really careful in which order you do
things

[scaramouche] should be called preemptive strike than

yeah, there is not much counter in counter attack. preemptive attack would be a better
name

that are the only hold-overs. re-rolls are gone for good

[scaramouche] oh, big

there is one new new generic stratagem:

All-out attack gives you an advantage on the hit roll

[scaramouche] they took this right from AoS

stratagems are cheaper cost 0-2 points and you cannot use the same stratagem twice.
no phase limitation

[scaramouche] still some stratagems to remember. but not as worse as before

you can use them with all units. they are listed on the battle profile. but only as a
keyword. the full text ist on the army roster

[scaramouche] keyword?

Keywords
rules and models have keywords

[scaramouche] ah, yes. you spoke about this before

special rules have a keyword too, that can be referenced. but only one and the full
rules text is included unless it is a very common army rule
[scaramouche] so, the best of both worlds, the current system and the old usrs

some keywords are used for army composition

[scaramouche] ??

all the signifier keywords, that have no in game purpose, are at the bottom of the
battle profile. this includes the faction keywords, which are separate on the roster
datasheet, but are lumped together with the other keywords on the battle profile. they
do nothing rulewise, except for checking if an ability affects the unit. all other
keywords that have game purpose are listed above in the phase it is used. directly
below the stats is a box for general rules, mostly defensive stats, but also the size
category of the unit.

[scaramouche] oh, neat layout choice.

fly or fleet go to the movement phase box

other keywords too

[scaramouche] ok, cool. and the size for moving around probably too? are these all relevant
keywords?

rulewise: size, type i.e. infantry, vehicle/mortal/demon/no keyword, flying, fleet,

unmovable from the top of my head

[scaramouche] can you talk about which units have which size?

sizes are light for guardsman, aeldari, orks, etc, solid for power armour and light
vehicles like raiders and buggies, heavy for tanks, super-heavy for knights and titanic
for forgeworld models

[scaramouche] which category is the tantalus in?

i don’t know. we do not have forgeworld rules for anything, except some units have
GT profiles, but most don’t. and we haven’t seen a single crusade forgeworld
datasheet

[scaramouche] oh, so

[scaramouche] oh, but forgeworld is still legal in matched play

yes

[scaramouche] can you tell me, which units are GT legal?

no, it is late
[scaramouche] yes. see you tomorrow

cu tomorrow. then we can talk about the terrain

Profile
[scaramouche] good morning

Good morning, how are you?

[scaramouche] My daughter was awake all night, so not much sleep. But I had time to
digested yesterdays marathon.

Is she ok?

[scaramouche] Yes, she drank a truckload of water and then was awake to go to the bath.
And then she was tired and everything was bad.

I feel with you. I am glad that the kids are old enough.

[scaramouche] It is not that bad usually. This was an outlier. 10 is a beautiful age. She
painted her first miniatures last month.

My kids were never interested. So you gave them some of your Aeldari?

[scaramouche] No, Sylvaneth. She wants to protect the forest.

By impaling the invaders with roots and branches?

[scaramouche]:D Must have forgotten to mention this to her. Don’t tell her mother.

I don’t have that much time today. Should talk about the timeframe before I leave.

[scaramouche] We will do this. Can you describe the profile?

The general layout is from top to bottom:

Stats and picture
than boxes for each phase and on top a generic box
than a single bracket for keywords

the boxes for the phases are very busy: they have special rules, weapon profiles and
enhancement slots and keywords

Stats: Movement, Evade (traits), Save (including Invulnerable) (value + traits),

Wounds, Initiative, Morale
[scaramouche] ok, and weapons?

Weapon profile: Range, Attacks, Hit (roll + traits), Penetration (traits), Damage, blank
for special rules

Melee weapons have also a range, but not in inch, but ‘ranks’, 0 = you have to be in
contact with the enemy, 1, you are in proximity to a model that is in contact, 2, you are
in proximity with a model that is in proximity with one in contact, and so forth.

[scaramouche] You mean reach.

yes, reach. but this was my word for it

[scaramouche] so this range/reach distinction tells you if it is a melee or shooting weapon

no, you simply see if a weapon is listed under fight phase or shooting phase

[scaramouche] oh, neat. yes. you mentioned that everything is sorted by phase

there are other quality of life improvements. i talked about that each unit has a special
rule in the morale phase section now. the frame of the morale stat references this, the
morale score of units with the indomitable morale rule have chains as a border for
example

[scaramouche] nifty

there is now a layout solution that shows which weapons are can be used together
and which are either/or. there is no general rule for this

[scaramouche] ok

just lines that are connecting weapons that can be used together. if there are more
than one grouping, you have to decide which you use. bolt pistol and bolter are two
seperate groups. but all the weapons on a predator are a single group. there are some
nestled instances

[scaramouche] cant picture this. but is is essentially the rule in graphic format?

it is difficult to describe, but very easy to grasp if you see it

[scaramouche] ok. why is the morale stat at the top and not under morale phase?

probably because morale is used for other stuff, too

[scaramouche] Morale is your shorthand for leadership, isn’t it?

no, it is called morale now, not leadership

[scaramouche] AoS thieves at work again

morale value is a number, i.e. 3+ for Space Marines

[scaramouche] yes, I know.

stats can go from 1+ to 6+. and if a unit has a 1+ score, it automatically passes the roll
if you have no disadvantage. you still roll an advantaged 1+ to fish for crits

Traits

[scaramouche] ok. you mentioned the shooting traits yesterday. I understand the system. But
can you give me some examples. This would clear this up

yes, we can talk about that

[scaramouche] What are the hit traits?

for hit, the traits are:

rapid fire counters dodge, tracker counters speed, true grit counters jinx, seeker
counters obscured, pulse counters flicker

[scaramouche] cool

jinx is used by harlequins and drukhari vehicles

flicker is used by necron phase units and primaris with shunt modules

[scaramouche] and the armour traits?

[scaramouche] whaaaaaat? shunt modules?

yes. shunt primaris are thing. but don’t want to talk about new models. can do,
though, if i get the mods for free

[scaramouche] haha, no. I want to see pictures for this. Ok. sorry. don’t want to let you down,
but this is a lot of work and cant do this for free. no offence

none taken. it’s ok

[scaramouche] how are they called?

ruptaris :P

[scaramouche] lol

no, just kidding. simply Rupture squad

[scaramouche] this doesnt make it better. maybe a little. Primaris Warp spiders before warp
Eldar warp spiders. someone at the HQ has cruel sense of humour

yes, armor traits: armored counters penetrating, shielded vs fusion, aegis counters
infused, artificer counters killshot

[scaramouche] ok

power weapons are penetrating, most weapons are penetrating in fact. melta and
plasma are fusion, infused are for thousand sons and force weapons, killshot is used
by snipers and primaris lieutenants :D

[scaramouche] omg, than we will see another dozen of them

there are two wildcard traits: veteran instincts for hit and hardened for save. they
negate any of the traits. transhuman gives hardened and baneblades are stacked with
it

[scaramouche] ok, it gets even more complicated. I really can’t imagine how this works on
the table. can you give me the most convluted example you can think of and walk me thru

do I have to do this?

[scaramouche] yes, please

Example
ok, here is the most complicated example I can think of:
bio plasma (no hit mods/infused,fusion(3)) on a upgraded carnifex (veteran instincts)
in synaptic range (advantage on hit) = advantage, veteran instincts(1) // infused (1),
fusion (3)
vs terminator with iron halo (no evade traits/hardened, armored, shielded) in 2/2 cover
(2 obscured, 2 armored). = obscured(2) / armored (3), shielded (1), hardened (1)

so for hit one obscure is countered by instincts: so 1 disadvantage and 1 advantage,

so just the normal hit roll of 4+. he is lucky and hits
bio plasma is a blast weapon, so damage is capped at unit size, but we assume there
are 3 terminators, so it does 3 damage = 3 saves taken
infused(1) is uncountered = 1 disadvantage, one fusion is countered by hardened, but
2 remain, so 2 additional disadvantages, armored counters nothing because bio
plasma has no penetration value, so 3 disadvantags in total.

[scaramouche] easy

the terminator unit has to make three save rolls on 2+, 2,3 = save, 4,5,6 = glancing.
assume the unit rolls 2,4,6. it save two damage and only one terminator is wounded
[scaramouche] haha, it will take ages to figure out the modifier

it is not that bad. this is an extreme case. usually it is just obscured and maybe a flat
advantage on the hit roll from cover and innate armored + cover vs penetrating. fusion
weapons (plasma, melta, etc, some big lasweapons have a lower value) is usually
high enough to outright trump everything else

[scaramouche] ok, i trust your word. you are probbaly right that you have to talk a lot more,
but are faster overall. but this is a heavy change

that’s why i have talked about this yesterday. most impactful change. but way faster
than before. less rolling and more talking

there are lots of other rules I haven’t talked about, but we should talk about the terrain
files first

[scaramouche] yes, sure

are you ok with 200 euros for the 8 files in a polished state?

[scaramouche] I said 240 euros

no, last word was 200 euros. I am sure. We gave you a lot of stuff and you can ask
questions if you want

[scaramouche] I said 240 euros. it is right in the chat.

Ok, fine. I’ll talk to Brian.

[scaramouche] ok. we havnt talked about flyer and psychic yet. think they are completely
different, too

Aircraft
no. not that different. one huge difference though. if an enemy moves within 6”, the
aircraft is simply removed from the table and placed anywhere at the table edge

[scaramouche] so if an enemy is near, I can choose to fly away

no, you have to do it. but the enemy can decide if this happens right before he moves
or after his activation

[scaramouche] is there a reason why it can do this?

it zooms away
[scaramouche] funny. but other units cannt do it. so you can still charge it, beforeit moves of?

yes, you can charge it, but only with a single unit. than it is gone

[scaramouche] ok. so aircraft get better

you cannot block anything with them anymore

[scaramouche] right. because the player can force move before he moves. that’s cool and
fluffy

[scaramouche] but walkiries or thunderhawks are not ment to be easily moved. this is not
fluffy

it is once again back to hover mode. they are not aircraft anymore

[scaramouche] oh. ok, psychic than

Psychic
psychic powers have keywords, too. so there is no longer a spell lore list. Blood
Angels can just pick all powers with the Chapter or Chapter: Blood Angels keyword. it
is the same system that all the other options use. this opens up the possibility to
expand the list of psychic powers outside the codex. this is already implemented in
the first three codices

[scaramouche] this is to be expected with the new way of doing things

psychic phase can be whenever you like. there is a psychic phase per activation

[scaramouche] so per unit. that changes a lot

units can still use different numbers of spells. but they have a casting score now, too.
power shave no warp charge, but are disadvantaged or advantaged by different
amounts. you roll still two dice, with perils on snake eyes. if you have at least one
success, the power goes through.

psykers now deny as a collective. they can deny an infinite amount of powers, but if
their attempt exceeds the number of allowed denies, every attempt gives an additional
disadvantage.

[scaramouche] but how does this work with mighty eldrad and a lowly warlock
you use the best psychic score, even if another psyker is the one in deny range

[scaramouche] ok

denying psykers needs more successes. so two crits make a psychic power
undeniable

[scaramouche] i dont get the reason behind this change

probably because there are several psychic phases and keeping track how many
denies each individual psyker has used up would be a headache

[scaramouche] not more than other things. you could simply use tokens for this

[scaramouche] are psi powers part of the sideboard?

psychic powers must be picked during army creation. in GT they are picked for you

[scaramouche] ok, same old mechanic

Tokens
yes, you could use tokens for such a system. but there are already more tokens than
in 9th. you need to keep track of overwatch, units can be shaken or disadvantaged
from other effects. terrain can be damaged to light

[scaramouche] yes

and you still have all the others

there is a plastic sprue for tokens that cover all these effects. there is debris for
damaged terrain

there are a couple of token holders for cardboard tokens. of course it is a skull with
the token inserted into its forehead. but we do not have the cardboard tokens, so we
do not use them.

[scaramouche] sry, was afk. are there tokens for units you already moved with?

no, there is no token for activated units. you have to remember this

[scaramouche] how do the tokens look?

the wound tokens are dials with an arrow and a med kit and bandages sculpted on
[scaramouche] hope you can use it with eldar without lookin uot of place

no, luckily the set is not overtly imperial themed, but still the tech is still imperial in
nature. but no aquila, etc. would be great to get token sets for each of the armies.

Stuff
[scaramouche] can you talk about other miniatures. is this the only set you got?

this is too much into miniature territory. should talk first

[scaramouche] yes. has Brian answered?

Yes. he is fine with 240 Euros. Is this acceptable?

[scaramouche] yes. of course.

How long does this take you?

[scaramouche] a couple of weeks. work is crazy right now

[scaramouche] max 2 months

That’s fine. Would be great to get this in May, so that we are finished printing and
painting by the end of June.

[scaramouche] ok. this is possible

Perfect. Thank you, Sven

[scaramouche] no problem

If you have questions about the project, or the rules, shoot me a message.

[scaramouche] i will do this. have a nice day. and thank you

We have to thank you. Bye

[scaramouche] Hi. I wanted to talk to you

Yes

[scaramouche] I am not comfortable with the deal.

Why? I already gave you lots of insight

[scaramouche] that is the problem. woudlnt it be unlawful if i accept forbidden info as
payment

No, why. we struck a deal. It is not different than before

[scaramouche] yes, it is. this time i got NDA protected stuff as payment

Not as payment. I was only telling you how to build the terrain. to give you some
insight

[scaramouche] yes, it is. this time i got NDA protected stuff as payment. I can do this for
280€, the old rate.

Thats a real asshole move. We have already agreed to 240 Euros.

[scaramouche] I am sorry. This was not planned this way.

Fine. You wanted to know about the starter box. I can tell you the details if the deal
stays.

[scaramouche] Its is not about that. I think this was a bad idae. If we cancel the deal or go
back to the normal rate, all this laek stuff has no infuence on me. It is just 2 guys talking.

That is all we were doing the whole time. So, the starter box is set on Baal and there is
a campaign set in the wastes. It is Indomitus crusade, Blood Angels in this case vs
updated Tyranids. I can tell you about the contents.

[scaramouche] This doesn’t make it better. I dont want legal trouble.

Don’t make up problems.

That’s stupid.

[scaramouche] I asked ttwo acquiantanses and one was not convinced and told me to back
off or I am in legal trouble.

You did what?

Are you stupid?

Who?

[scaramouche] I had to be sure. I told them not to spread the word. And I trust them. They
have experience with leaks.

You dont trust me?

You are a sucker.

Scum.

Hello Sven. Are you there? Can you please give me the contact info of the two guys? I
want to talk to them. I hope you can do this. This is obviously important. I have no
hard feelings and hope this unfortunate situation resolves as quickly as possible.
Greetings from Brian and Oliver, too. Hope, you are well.