Testing Lucas Alternators

Some background
Originally I wanted to know if the alternator on my T100 was working. The engine was in
bits so I mounted the stator and rotor onto my bench grinder. This ran at about 3000
RPM but my grinder struggled to maintain speed when the
stator was connected to a load. I
later bought a more powerful three-
phase motor and inverter and built
a small test rig (on the right.)

This rig can drive an alternator

from 0 to 4000 RPM under load.
The top limit is arbitrary as I don’t
know the maximum speed of the
motor!

To make measurements I used a

digital
multimeter
(DM) and a Picoscope (software oscilloscope.)

Lucas specifies a 1 Ohm load resistor to test

their alternators and initially I made my own
from resistance wire. There is a fair amount
of heat to dissipate by the load (at least
120W) and after burning my hand a couple
of times I fitted a cooler running 200W
device below left. I also
added a selection of resistors to simulate ignition and lighting loads.

Although I started out to test my own alternator, over time this has changed and I have
taken the opportunity to test any alternator I can get my hands on. I have logged the test
results at the end of this document.

1
 Testing Lucas Alternators
Stators
Stators are pretty simple devices, just a long length of copper wire wound around coil
formers. Generally they will either work or they won’t. There were two types latterly
produced by Lucas, single-phase and three-phase. You can identify each type by its number
of output wires and coils. A single-phase stator has two wires and six coils (below left), while a
three-phase stator has three wires and 9 coils (below right).

Confusingly the early single-phase stators also had three wires. This was because they were
initially used on 6 volt electrical systems which had no voltage regulation (no zener). To increase
alternator output whenever lights were used, extra stator coils (the third wire) were brought
into use. These stators can also be used on 12v systems by connecting the green/yellow
and green/black wires together to make a two wire single-phase stator.

Some even earlier stator types had 5 wires but these were used on AC only bikes.

Lucas stators have an ID number and date of manufacture stamped on them. To find your
numbers you may have to remove your stator. Aftermarket stators tend to have only a name
at best.

2
 Testing Lucas Alternators

Rotors
As far as I can tell there is no difference between single and three-phase rotors. Rotors have
identifying numbers and sometimes a date.

The rotor keyway is only required for timing purpose, it is not required to drive the rotor. I
never use a key on my rig and only ever just nip up the rotor nut, it never moves.

You must use a key if you run a battery-less ignition system (including with a capacitor) or if
you use the marks on the rotor for ignition timing.

There may be rub marks on your rotor but these are not necessarily a bad thing.
However there must be a gap between the rotor and stator, check yours with a feeler
gauge. The gap size is not critical but make sure you can get a feeler all the way
around.

If the rub marks have any depth or formed grooves, check the nearest main bearing for wear.

Magnetism
There is a lot of forum talk about how much magnetism a rotor loses over time and what
impact this might have on alternator output. I have a collection of old rotors and some are
good, some are bad. Shown below two of my old Lucas rotors are very close to a new
Wassell on output (C & E), two are close and rotor B wants chucking in the bin.

Meter Reading Scope reading Power

1 No load 1 No Output %
Ohm Ohm load
AC AC Peak Peak Compared
to
ID Make Year ID Watts RPM Volts Volts Volts Volts Wassell
A Lucas 54215824 149 3000 12.2 22.1 23.2 58.2 70
B Lucas 11 68 54212006 108 3000 10.4 18.8 20.1 51.2 51
C Lucas 204 3000 14.3 25.3 27.2 63.7 96
D Wassell ww10105p 213 3000 14.6 25.9 27.2 63.7 100
E Lucas 44 78 54212006 202 3000 14.2 24.8 26.7 61.4 95
F Lucas 5 69 54212006 166 3000 12.9 23.2 24.1 60.4 78

3
 Testing Lucas Alternators

I have tested a Sparx high-output rotor and this gave a useful extra 50W output on a single
phase stator and 25W extra on a three phase. Take note that this increase would stress a
standard zener through overheating. A modern rec/reg should be OK with the extra output
though.
Power
Output %
Rotor Voltage Watts
Compared to
Wassell I used a two wire stator 47205A with 1 Ohm
Lucas 10.8 117 96 load at 3000 RPM in this test.
Wassell 11.0 121 100
Sparx 13.1 171 141

Tight Fit Rotor

While mentioning Sparx, their rotors are now an interference fit on the crankshaft. Until we know
different I’d suggest using an expanding reamer or hone in the Sparx rotor bore to give
yourself a bit of clearance.

Bore The crankshaft diameter is

Rotor Clearance
size
0.750in. All dimensions in
Lucas 0.753 0.003
Wassell 0.7525 0.0025
inches.
Sparx 0.7505 0.0005

Rotor Offset
A rider said his rotor has a 0.25” (6.35mm) offset from his stator and wondered what effect it
would have on output. I did a quick check using a standard Lucas rotor with single-phase
47205a stator running at 3000rpm without and with a load.

Voltage Voltage That offset caused a 9% drop in output so

Watts worth getting it right. It would be interesting
No load 1 Ohm
Offset 33.4 10.2 104.0 to know if the offset is standard or has been
Aligned 35.5 10.7 114.5 caused by a mismatch of parts ie wrong size
studs. spacer or stator

Shorted Stator Output

There has been some forum discussion about the power consumption of Lucas alternators, i.e.
how much effort does it take to rotate a rotor. Most thought it would be at maximum effort
when the output leads are shorted together. However one lone voice declared that the drive
power would be at minimum with leads shorted.

To test the theory I set the frequency of my inverter to 17Hz (1000 RPM) and noted the
output current of the inverter with no load, with a 1 Ohm load and with the stator leads
shorted together. To just drive the motor alone (no rotor or stator) the inverter current was

4
 Testing Lucas Alternators
1.9 amps.

5
 Testing Lucas Alternators
The tests showed that minimum power is required with shorted leads. Not surprising then that most
modern rec/regs work using this system as the following example
shows: Motor current
(A)
http://mastercircuits.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/motorcycle- Stator D Stator J
voltage-regulator.html No load 3.3 2.9
1 ohm 3.6 3.1
I was surprised at how little difference there is between the no
load and 1 ohm load values. If anyone is wondering why the no load values are so high
don't forget that you have a set of rotor magnets trying to hang onto the stator poles.

Since doing this test I have found Lucas circuit

diagrams that show output leads shorted together
in some lighting switch positions (Lucas Workshop
Instructions, Section L-2, Part E, Page 3 Nov
1960).

The following text was included, “In the lights ‘off’

position the alternator output is regulated to a
minimum value by the interaction of a magnetic
flux set up by the current flowing in the short-
circuited coils
with the magnetic flux of the rotor – the latter flux being distorted and therefore less effective.”

Will a shorted stator overheat?

Another forum member suggested that although it takes less power to rotate a shorted
stator, over time a shorted stator would still fatally overheat. The accompanying chart
shows stator J with its output leads shorted together
running with a Lucas rotor
at 3000 RPM. After 40
minutes the temperature is
stabilising around 80 deg
C.

The output leads of the

stator were only warm to
the touch suggesting that
the temperature rise is
mostly caused by eddy
currents.

I am not sure what the internal

temperature of a Triumph primary chaincase would be after 40 minutes running but I would
imagine that it is likely to be 80 deg C or more.

6
 Testing Lucas Alternators
Testing
Finally to give an idea what an alternator is doing have a look at the plot below, the output of stator
M. As you can see, with no load the stator output is a straight line. If you double the
speed of the rotor you double the output voltage of the stator. With a load, the curve is
flattened.

100
90
80
70
60
50
Peak Volts DC40
30 1 Ohm load
20 No load
10
0

0200040006000
RPM

Testing your alternator

RM stators are robust things; it is difficult to destroy one. If you are having charging
problems it is likely to be something other than a bad alternator. Also if you replace your
alternator without first testing it then the chances are you are wasting your money.

If your bike suddenly develops a flat battery then to test your alternator:

 First charge your battery (so you can start your bike and keep it running)
 Disconnect your stator
 Measure the stator resistance and compare your readings to mine in the tables below.
When measuring very low resistances the meter lead resistance can be higher than
the stator resistance so measure the lead resistance first (connect the meter leads
together and note the meter reading), then measure your stator resistance and subtract
the lead resistance to give actual stator resistance. Remember that with stator resistance
results, near enough is good enough. If my stator measures 0.5 Ohm and yours is
0.62 Ohm then that is OK. If you have an infinite or very high stator resistance then
you have a broken stator coil or stator lead.
 Now measure the resistance between the stator lead and the crankcase, it should
always be infinite (very high).
 Start your bike and measure the AC voltage between leads at 3000 RPM (you don’t need
the 1 Ohm resistor.) Compare your results with mine. Again, being close is good enough.
Don’t just blip the throttle to make measurements, hold the revs until you get a
steady meter reading.

If your resistances are OK but your voltage is much lower than mine then you have weak
magnets in your rotor.

7
 Testing Lucas Alternators
If your bike passes these tests then you need to look at your rectifier and zener (or your
rec/reg for combined units) for your charging problems. There is further guidance here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/152680652/Fault-Finding-Lucas-Motorcycle-Charging-Systems

The log, what it all means

ID - is what I scribed onto a stator as I pulled it from the box so I could refer back if necessary.

Type – single (1) or three (3) phase

Number - is what was stamped onto the stator. I am not sure what the numbers mean and I
suspect that you could get the same alternator type but with different numbers for each bike
manufacturer. Where it says ‘unknown’ this refers to a rotor purchased new from eBay and I
think of them as a Royal Enfield (India) types of stator rather than of Lucas origin.

Year - what was stamped on the stator.

Wires - the number of, coming from the stator.

Number of laminations - counted.

Lead colours - if the majority of lead colour is brown with a thin blue stripe then this is
brown-blue in my log.

Resistance between leads - in Ohms.

As I said previously measuring low value resistance is tricky because part of the resistance you
are trying to measure is caused by the meter itself; often the meter lead resistance is
greater than the stator resistance. To overcome this in my tests I used the ‘four-wire’
resistance measuring method,
done using two meters (hence four-wire) and a separate power supply.

The power supply is used to provide a current flow through the stator
being tested and one meter is connected to measure this current flow. If
we now measure the voltage across the stator leads we can calculate its
resistance (R=V/I). The important point is that with this method the meter
lead resistance is of no concern.

Using the circuit on the left I adjusted the power supply until 1 amp was
flowing through the ammeter; from Ohm’s law the voltage measured
across the stator is the same as the stator resistance. So if I measure
0.5v across the stator coil
then its resistance is 0.5 Ohm.

Watts - an idea of what the stator output power is likely to be. I have multiplied the meter
reading with 1 Ohm load by itself. It is not accurate but a reasonable indication.

RPM – of the rotor used for the measurement.

Meter reading 1 Ohm load volts AC - what my meter measured with a 1 Ohm load. These
readings are relative rather than absolute. You need what’s known as a “true RMS” meter
8
 Testing Lucas Alternators
for accurate results, my meter isn’t but it gives you an idea what to expect.

9
 Testing Lucas Alternators
Meter reading no load - as above with 1 Ohm load disconnected.

Peak 1 Ohm volts - peak voltage measured on my Picoscope, the dotted lines shown below.

Stator C 4000 RPM 1 Ohm load

Meter reading 6.0 volts AC

This is important as it gives an indication of whether at maximum load your battery will be
charged. Now a charged 12v battery measures 12.6V across its terminals, so to charge it we
need more than
12.6 volts. Looking at the image above you can see the peak voltage is just over 10 volts which
isn’t enough.

Peak no load volts - as can be seen bellow you have plenty of voltage to charge your battery.

Stator C 4000 RPM no load

Meter reading 52.1 volts AC

1
 Testing Lucas Alternators
In practice you can never achieve “no load” as your electrical system will always have a load of
some sort (the battery itself, ignition coils, zener diode.)

Notes - some remarks. An ‘X’ in this column indicates the leads I used for measurement on
three- phase stators.

DerryUK

August 2013

1
 Testing Lucas
T Y Meter reading Scope reading
Y e Resistance 1 Ohm No load 1 Ohm No load
P Stator a Between AC AC Peak Peak
ID E number r Wires Laminations Lead colours Leads Watts RPM Volts Volts Volts Volts Notes
Brown brown-blue 0.916 No connection
Brown red 0.451 27 5.2 13.2 9.1 35.5 Stop Lamp
A 1 47197A 67 5 18 Red brown-blue 0.484 45 3000 6.7 26.4 11.2 92.5 Lights
black
Black-white Yellow 4.790 9 3.0 75.9 4.5 203.0 Ignition coils
Green-yellow Green-black 0.847
B 3 47252 85 3 19 Green-yellow White-green 0.851 34 3000 5.8 38.0 9.6 67 X
White-green Green-black 0.851
Green-yellow Green-black 0.849 1000 4.5 13.2 7.8 22.3
Green-yellow White-green 0.858 2000 5.5 26.3 9.1 48.0
C 3 47252 89 3 21
White-green Green-black 0.860 34 3000 5.8 39.4 9.5 72.0
36 4000 6.0 52.1 10 96.3
D 1 47161A 64 2 16 Green-yellow Green-pink 0.234 149 3000 12.2 22.1 23.2 58.2
Green-yellow Green-black 0.529
E 3 47244A 88 3 20 Green-yellow White-green 0.530 53 3000 7.3 30.0 12.1 56.8
White-green Green-black 0.517
Green-yellow Green-black 0.519 1000 4.9 9.8 8.5 16.4
Green-yellow White-green 0.519 2000 6.6 19.6 11.4 33.5 X
F 3 472442 83 3 20
White-green Green-black 0.519 53 3000 7.3 29.2 12.2 50.4
59 4000 7.7 38.6 12.8 67.0
Green-yellow Green-black 0.829
G 3 47252A 79 3 20 Green-yellow White-green 0.831 36 3000 6.0 37.3 9.8 60.3 X
White-green Green-black 0.844
Brown Clear 0.704 18 4.2 20.4 6.9 55.7
Brown Red 1.102 1 1.0 7.5 1.7 30.1
H 1 Unknown 5 17 3000
Brown Purple 2.350 1 1.1 16.5 1.9 54.9
Brown Mauve 1.092 1 1.2 10.1 1.9 37.8

1
 Testing Lucas
T Y Meter reading Scope reading
y e Resistance 1 Ohm No load 1 Ohm No load
p Stator a Between AC AC Peak Peak
ID e number r Wires Laminations Lead colours Leads Watts RPM Volts Volts Volts Volts Notes
Red Brown-blue 0.499 42 6.5 26.6 10.2 78.2
Brown Black-white 3.950 6 2.5 73.8 3.7 225.0
I 1 7188B 5 18 3000 Marked C15
Brown Black-yellow 0.400 35 5.9 16.0 9.8 37.9
Black-white Black-yellow 4.340 8 2.8 89.5 4.1 265.0
42 1000 6.5 11.1 13.6 31.3
J 1 47205A 69 2 18 White-green Green-yellow 0.424 90 2000 9.5 22.2 17.6 62.3
117 3000 10.8 33.1 17.9 92.4
Light green Mid green 0.597 Not tested
K 1 Unknown 3 19 Light green Dark green 1.120 Stator did not
Dark green Mid green 1.700 fit my rig
Green White 0.735 71 8.4 27.8 14.0 75.1
L 1 Unknown 3 23 Green Purple 2.040 1 3000 0.3 1.9 1.0 12.3
White Purple 1.330 29 5.4 26.0 9.0 67.1
Orange Yellow 0.531 92 9.6 23.0 17.6 66.2
Purple Purple 0.960 41 6.4 25.8 11.16 79.7
3000
M 1 Unknown 4 32
Windings
Orange Yellow 149 12.2 23.9 In-phase
White-green Green-black 1.199 31 5.6 40.1 8.55 104.7
White-green Green-yellow 0.584 88 9.4 38.5 14.6 101.0
Green-black Green-yellow 1.788 0 1.5 0.38 4.6
N 1 47209A 3 26 3000
White-green Green-black+ Windings
green-yellow 129 11.4 38.8 17.9 101.6 In-phase
Red Green Broken leads
P 1 472308 73 3 Red Yellow
Green Yellow

1
 Testing Lucas
T Y Meter reading Scope reading
y e Resistance 1 Ohm No load 1 Ohm No load
p Stator a Between AC AC Peak Peak
ID e number r Wires Laminations Lead colours Leads Watts RPM Volts Volts Volts Volts Notes
Green-yellow White-green 0.495
Sparx
Q 3 3 20 Green-yellow Green-black 0.497 62 3000 7.9 28.0 12.78 40.9 Wassell rotor
Hi-output
White-green Green-black 0.497
Green-yellow White-green 0.495 Sparx
Sparx
Q 3 3 20 Green-yellow Green-black 0.497 87 3000 9.32 31.8 15.13 46.2 hi-output
Hi-output
White-green Green-black 0.497 rotor