An Overview of North American Crossover Thrash, 1985…

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GreatThunderOwl • Writer: … • 1y Join 

An Overview of North American Crossover

Thrash, 1985-1992
Primer

“Fighting in this society, there’s only one way to win

We must stick together through all thick and thin.
Cross over the line of your stubborn, closed mind
You’ll be surprised at what you might find.”
--Kurt Brecht/D.R.I., “Tear It Down,” Crossover, 1987
This is a punk list too, so let’s cut to the chase. Crossover
thrash (previously: thrash, metalcore) was a genre born in the
mid 1980s in the midst of both the hardcore and metal
movements of underground music. It’s important to understand
the context and timeline of why this movement occurred, who
it involved, and why it came into existence.

Early History: Heavy Metal and

Hardcore Punk
In the early-mid 80s, hardcore punk was still largely seen as
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the true, “hard” genre that thisSeveral
had teeth. Link musicians in both x
scenes have commented as much--Black Flag and Bad Brains
were king, Metallica and Slayer were runners-up. Many of us in
contemporary times associate “metal” with some of its more
grotesque, intense, and offensive aesthetics, in 1982 the
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darkest and scariest band was still just Venom, while hardcore
punk was getting their shows shut down by cops and getting in
fights with the audience. Metal bands had their edge (to say
nothing that Venom, W.A.S.P., and Mercyful Fate weren’t
included on the PMRC’s Filthy Fifteen) but the real hard and
dark violent edge was still associated with hardcore punk. Even
when Kill ‘Em All and Show No Mercy dropped, they still had a
while to go before they were understood as the instant classics
they are today.

Heavy metal in the public consciousness for people in-the-

know were bands like Quiet Riot, Motley Crue, and Twisted
Sister as much as Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. Contrast that
to Black Flag, Government Issue, Bad Brains, and Minor
Threat? It’s no wonder that people thought that punk had more
teeth. That wasn’t to say there wasn’t any level of crossover,
so to speak--here’s Tom Araya of Slayer making a cameo in
fellow LA compatriots Suicidal Tendencies’ famous video for
“Institutionalized.” More on that in a minute.

As such, this came with a sort of cultural divide. Old movies,

radio shows, and zines from the period began to refer to
separate scenes as “longhairs” and “shorthairs,” being what we
now call metalheads and punks today (although both those
terms were still in use today). And they did not get along.

Humorously, tracing both movements back to their musical

origins shows it’s just another extension of the inter-rockist
music wars that have been going on since the inception of
rock-n-roll. Heavy metal is one of the many offshoots of rock
music, yet another branch that grew as a mixture from the
progressive and psychedelic sides of blues-rock. Hardcore
punk can be traced from punk and glam in the mid-70s, which
was a reaction against that same progressive and psychedelic
rock, with the music attempting to recapture the spirit of ‘50s
rock-n-roll and ‘60s garage rock which they felt was much
more true to its blues roots than the jam bands and progressive
rock emerging from the hippie movement.

Even as the original wave of domestic hardcore punk died

down in the mid-80s (many of the bands cite 1986 as the year
hardcore "died") and broke off into several offshoots those
initials tensions were still there. When Cro-Mags toured with
Motorhead and Destruction, fights ensued. However, in the
words of the immortal Tom Araya: “there’s only one type of
music and that’s fast hard.” Inevitably, where did a fair number
of those hardcore kids learn to play so fast? Listening to their
old Maiden and Priest records, of course. Despite there being a
cultural divide, there wasn’t anything quite like Black Flag in
‘74, but there was still Sabbath, and soon to be Priest and
Motorhead.

The (Official) Crossing Over

One of the bands that were the first to embrace this trend was
a group of Texas teens fed up with society so much that they
did what most people claim they’re gonna do and lived
homeless on Haight-Ashbury. The difference being while your
typical Haight-Ashbury folk like jamming out and dropping
acid, the Dirty Rotten Imbeciles wanted to thrash and rage with
the punks. 1983 and '84 saw the release of some of the
craziest punk work we'd seen before. D.R.I.’s Spike Cassidy, the
guitarist and songwriter, had a real penchant for speed and
tempo that rivaled plenty of metal guitarists. They were one of
the fastest, realest bands to some people once they finally
arrived in San Francisco. The difference being, while Black Flag
was jamming Buzzcocks and The Clash, Spike and the boys
grew up on Sabbath and Priest. By the time they got the
opportunity to drop a full length, it was already becoming clear
there was more to these punks that met the eye.

I would highly recommend listening to two songs from their

first proper LP Dealing With It! to start yourself off. The first,
“Couch Slouch” is basically a powerviolence and fastcore
staple and birthed an entire punk genre based on speed and
going fast. You’re not a real hardcore band if you haven’t
covered “Couch Slouch.”
But then there is “Argument Than War.” In many ways, this is
the attempt of a bunch of dirt-crusted teens with punk chops
trying to write “War Pigs.” The lyrics more blunt, the song is
considerably shorter, there’s a few more fast bits--but the style
is very much the same. And where do you go from here?
Dealing With It! came out in ‘85, one year before hardcore’s
collapse, so to speak. What else is a band playing fast/hard
supposed to do?

Well, you’ve got a couple options. You can form a cult of

personality and start a career on spoken word, you can chill out
and play alternative, or you can rock out a bit and go back to
your old Camel records. But for some people that wasn’t good
enough. They still wanted fast hard. And the only place still
giving that? Welcome to the world of metal.

Over time, the crossover appeal of people started to become

apparent. Skins that balked at Maiden but worshipped Flag
would show up at D.R.I. shows. Longhairs that were all about
Motorhead and Overkill but poo-pooed Minor Threat started
popping up at Cro-Mags gigs at CGBGs. While the cultural
confusion lasted at first, it was finally D.R.I. who broke the
barrier and wrote the seminal and defining crossover album
that gives the genre its name. Believe it or not, at one point
what we call crossover was called metalcore! Crazy how times
change.

Enough jabber and history. If you want to get into crossover,

here’s how:

Bands of Interest
A. The Fab Five (Essential
Crossover Bands)
If you know these bands, great! If you don’t, START HERE and
don’t go further.

D.R.I.
The Dirty Rotten Imbeciles. Known for playing short and fast
but later heavy and hard, D.R.I. is the most important crossover
band, entirely because they gave the genre its name. They
were doing it in a way no one else was, and most others even if
they came there followed suit.
Introductory Releases:
Dealing With It!: The perfect mixture of fast hardcore and a
slight twinge of early heavy metal. It’s mostly a punk record but
it’s very cool to see the bits of heavy metal poking through.
Crossover: The evolution is now complete. The riffs are chunky,
they slowed a bit (still fast) and they’re going for longer than 3
minutes? All in the name of heavy metal.

Suicidal Tendencies

Controversial, but these guys didn’t quite invent crossover

although ignoring them from its evolution is equally as heinous
as saying they were solely responsible for it. Suicidal
Tendencies bumped elbows with plenty of metalheads in the
LA metal scene and despite early tensions, the transition to
metal was natural and clean. Suicidal Tendencies already had
some metal tendencies in their first two hardcore punk albums,
although they’re very cleanly integrated and tailor-made for a
punk to enjoy it without feeling guilty. When they went metal,
same story: slow down a tad but crank but the volume and
girth.
Introductory Release:
How Will I Laugh Tomorrow… - THIS is the crossover album you
want from them. Perfect mixture of chunky, fist-pumping songs
but heavy, heavy riffing and the production value is just
absolutely cranked from Join the Army.

Cro-Mags

Cro-Mags were true bread and butter and born children of two
worlds with a major mixture of hardcore and heavy metal.
Harley had a strong affinity for both, playing in early punk
bands but loving Priest and Motorhead. Now show someone
who knows that Bad Brains - “Pay to Cum.” Cro-Mags were d-
beat friendly, hardcore friendly, and meant what they said when
they sang about “Survival Of the Streets.” Some regrettable
association with the Hare Krishna movement likely tanked the
outreach they could’ve had, and a now infamous spat between
vocalist Joseph and bassist Flanagan probably kneecapped the
band before they could reach their true potential.
Introductory Release:
Age of Quarrel. - BUT we still got Age of Quarrel! Perfect
mixture of Bad Brains and Motorhead to a weird extent. This
album is very much in the vein of Dealing With It!, a hardcore
album with obvious metal influences. “Show You No Mercy” is
undoubtedly a metal song through and through, production
especially.

Carnivore

A little more upstate, we get the legendary Peter Steele (later

of Type O Negative) and his goofy, sexual, and hilarious band
Carnivore. While I would make the strong statement that the
first self-titled isn’t necessarily crossover, the follow-up
certainly is. Carnivore is a great example of band that actually
came from metal but still was able to incorporate punk
influences enough to become a “crossover” outlet. While most
of the proper evolution of crossover was hardcore -> metal,
there were some bands that attempted to incorporate enough
punk to really sell their image! What really set Carnivore apart
from other thrash is their sense of humor--something very
endemic to crossover bands, as you’ll see further down the list.
Introductory Release:
Retaliation - Humor set to 10, vomit samples engaged: drink
your pizza and eat your Jack, my friends. Retaliation is a
strange mixture of early heavy metal mixes and weird punky
sections that hit harder. Honestly, the less I spoil the better.

S.O.D. (Stormtroopers of Death)

This band is the closest thing to a “fluke” in that there is no

reason this band should have anything to do with crossover,
but by merit of existence and proof that there was some love
for punk in the metal world, S.O.D. is a major part of
crossover’s existence. The open secret is that S.O.D. is
basically Anthrax, just subtract Belladonna and add belching
beauty Billy Milano to lead vocals. After Scott and the boys
finished their recording sessions for Spreading the Disease
early, they asked their friend Billy to come in and cranked out
one entire album in about five days! And yet somehow, this
strange project was projected to metal glory and did quite a
few tours. They went to JAPAN, people! Big deal.
Introductory Release:
Speak English or Die - Remember when I said they wrote and
recorded this album in five days? Well that’s a lot more
apparent when you have songs like “What’s That Noise?”
(mostly distortion feedback), “Chromatic Death” (a chromatic
scale played while the band yells “Chromatic death”) and “Pre-
Menstrual Princess Blues” (where the verse is Milano putting
on a falsetto and pretending to nag). While that doesn’t sell it,
there’s enough here to sell an album considering it’s only 30
minutes, and considering the catchy nature of “Kill Yourself,”
“United Forces,” and “Sargeant D. and the SOD” it’s well worth
at least a listen. And sometimes the humor does work. See
“The Ballad of Jimi Hendrix.” But fair warning: a lot Milano’s
lyrical content borders on “offending to offend,” so just be
ready.

B. The Next in Line

These bands are well worth your time if you’re familiar with the
above bands. I’ll be much more brief and only recommend one
album, but some of them have expansive discographies to
check out.

Cryptic Slaughter - Basically, punk D.R.I. but even faster. Blast

beats up going crazy, the 14 year old drumming falling in and
out of time, and a bunch of backyard kids raging about. The
blasts they did inspired grindcore, fastcore, powerviolence--
you name it! If you’re a particular fan of punk motormouth, Bill
Crooks is an undisputed king of the artform. Great stuff even
beyond the first album!
Convicted

Crumbsuckers - Cro-Mags are said to be responsible for

starting NYHC, which with its beatdown, breakdowns, and
straight edge is a bit less common in the world of garage paint
huffers that is crossover. One of the few bands rooted in NYHC
that would follow in Cro-Mag’s metal footsteps is
Crumbsuckers. The influence is there, sure, but they’ve got a
unique take and a beautiful New York vocal style that would
make Sheer Terror shed a sheer tear.
Life of Dreams

Attitude Adjustment - Immediately breaking up after releasing

this first album, and reforming to play some groove metal
(okay), Attitude Adjustment hailed from San Francisco and
were a punk band, seemingly cut of the same cloth as any
other San Fran punk band. Unique and chunky, but with a
message. And then all of a sudden “Warfear” comes on and
you say, yeah, that’s a Maiden riff. Welcome to the club,
Attitude Adjustment.
American Paranoia

No Mercy - If you’re wondering why Suicidal Tendencies

wasn’t hitting the metal quite as hard as D.R.I. was in 1987,
mystery solved--turns out they were taking all those riffs and
using them for No Mercy. If you're a trad fan and you’re lost at
this point, start here--this is pure speed/thrash to an extent,
with Mike Muir on vocals in his bandana. Exactly the beautiful
kind of vibe if you wanted speed riffs with a dude who just
wants Pepsi.
Widespread Bloodshed Love Runs Red

The Accused - Of all the bands in this section, this is probably

the most underrated and surprisingly, the most consistent. I’m
recommending their sophomore release so you can see them
slowly incorporate their metal influences like D.R.I. did, but
even into their third and fourth albums they were innovating
and changing up the game! They go more metal on Maddest
Stories, but throw back in more PUNK on Grinning right after!
Talk about a fun band, and one of the few that has worthwhile
and fun reunion albums.
More Fun Than An Open Casket Funeral

Wehrmacht - Cryptic Slaughter, but sloppier, goofier, and with

the vomit samples of Carnivore. Hailing from Portland, Oregon,
Wehrmacht came from an interesting background where the
punk and metal scenes had some prominent bands but weren’t
huge, so eventually it resulted in a band that liked to play fast
and go hard, but really got an affinity for the concept that
speed metal riffs sound like a shark approaching. Their follow-
up, Biermacht, its exactly what you would expect by reading
the title.
Shark Attack

Excel - Yet another veteran of the Socal punk scene, Excel play
your standard crossover thrash with a few twists and turns and
real tendency to slow it down and sing about stuff that matters
like having an existential crisis while buying things in a store. If
you’ve gotten this far, and you hear Excel and you think it
rules? Yeah this is the genre for you. I love this album so much,
if you liked everything so far and want something catchy but
not super fast, this is it.
Split Image
M.O.D. - Sadly for a band like S.O.D., eventually the main
project is gonna take control but what on Earth are you gonna
do if you’re Billy Milano and you don’t have a band anymore?
Change the ‘S’ to an ‘M,’ of course! Without Scott Ian, the riffs
aren’t quite all there but if you are seriously desperate for more
80s-style stuff while Milano is still in his prime, M.O.D. is your
gig. And fair warning--Milano’s trademark jokes are there, but
he’s really pushing the envelope this time.
U.S.A. for M.O.D.

Ludichrist - A mixture of punk D.R.I./Cryptic Slaughter type

stuff, but East Coast and with the type of S.O.D. sardonic
without being too offensive. Lots of catchy parts but lots of
speed, with particularly notes like “Most People Are Dicks”
working with a blues riff and a dude singing about his troubles
and it slowly morphs into a speed demon screaming
“MOSTPEOPLEAREPEOPLEAREPEOPLEAREDICKS
Immaculate Deception

Leeway - If Crumbsuckers was spawned from Cro-Mags,

Leeway is that even more so but include some more NYHC
influence. Mixtures of Cro-Mags post-Age of Quarrel and
Boston/NYHC breakdowns, you might be surprised to find this
among the venerated greats on some of crossover.
Nonetheless, the affinity for punching your neighbor never gets
old, so Leeway will persist unless that drummer gets another
Cro-Mags gig again.
Born to Expire

C. The Distant Cousins

These are three bands I see get lumped in with crossover all
the time. Do I think they’re crossover? No, not really--just
punky thrash for the most part, but I’m sure people would yell
at me if I didn’t include them. And besides, if you like
everything so far, you’ll probably like them.

Nuclear Assault - Hailing from the same area as Anthrax,

Nuclear Assault used speed metal and heavy metal influences
alongside punk to really craft a powerful pummelling force of
thrash that experimented with both the long, wanky side
(“Brain Death”) and the short, punky side (“Hang the Pope”).
Their work is pretty seminal and they’re potentially more
famous than 95% of the other bands on this list, probably.
Game Over

Sacred Reich - Arizona natives! Sacred Reich had a very

famous EP that featured a weird dude with a hose nose on a
surfboard and ever since then they have cemented themselves
firmly into the thrash metal world. Political and goofy, Sacred
Reich has the name of a speed metal band except they played
very firmly in the world thrash, catching the second wave of
thrash just as it started to hit.
Surf Nicaragua

Evildead - You are more likely to have seen this album on the
bottom left corner of a patch vest than have ever thrown it on,
but you’re missing out if you haven’t. By far the most confusing
“crossover” mislabelling, considering this band was born out of
the ashes of Agent Steel and Abattoir, two speed metal bands.
Evildead is pure second wave thrash, crunchy riffs in the
pocket and fist-pumping riffs.
Annihilation of Civilization

D. A Foot in Both Worlds

These bands are usually better known for their work in other
genres, but had a significant connection to crossover and
either ended up or started there. Some of them are quite
popular too!

Corrosion of Conformity - A band now famous for playing

slow and low was all going fast as hell at one point. A punk
band in the heart of Texas North Carolina, CoC saw themselves
grow from a young hardcore punk band into a proper thrash
band and then a fascinating (albeit brief) mainstay in the world
of crossover thrash. Needless to say, it is not their punk-
influenced work they are famous for these days, but in some
ways this early work was ahead of its time just like D.R.I.,
Suicidal, and Cro-Mags were.
Technocracy

Prong - Fun fact, Prong had a considerable period where they

played music that you could actually bang your head to without
making a stank face. Their first full length goes very hard, very
fast--born out of the same East Coast scene that gave us
Carnivore, Prong had a lot of teeth and grit that eventually gave
way to a quite different sound, the one they’re best known for.
Force Fed
Agnostic Front - These are the real contemporaries of Cro-
Mags. Their earliest album, Victim in Pain, is some of the
fastest, hardest punk ever, rivalling D.R.I. And then with Cro-
Mags, they hopped ship and did a decent job in crossover too!
The album included here is their first foray into the metal world,
and it’s safe to say they clearly had their roots in it too. While
Agnostic Front’s fame certainly has a big impact on crossover,
as a band they’re considered to be a more famous fixture of
New York’s hardcore scene.
Cause for Alarm

Dr. Know - Socal? Socal. Yep, it’s yet another Socal band. But
don’t run! Dr. Know had some very interesting tracks in their
time, a weird sensibility that reminds me of one of the more
eerie sides of heavy metal, the same kind of ingredients
T.S.O.L. was playing with at the same time! Dr. Know’s
aesthetic is fascinating, and although their proper punk work is
where their strength truly is, they too made the leap to
crossover.
The Best of Dr. Know (not an actual best of, by the way, just a
fun joke)

Final Conflict - Yet another member of the “one and done”

club, Final Conflict released Ashes to Ashes and folded, only to
reemerge every ten years or so for a new reunion album.
Regardless, Final Conflict is a interesting piece of metal history
as it’s mostly just a punk album that combines West Coast
hardcore sensiblities with a very strong indication of UK punk
in the early 80s that today we associate with Discharge. In a
sense, Final Conflict was crossover retroactively more than
anything, but still finds themselves rubbing elbows with the
crossover bands they were contemporaries with.
Ashes to Ashes

Verbal Abuse - If you couldn’t tell by my ribbing, Norcal fan

over here, and Verbal Abuse comes from the opposite side of
San Francisco from Attitude Adjustment and D.R.I. in the
glorious East Bay. Verbal Abuse’s punk work is seminal and
powerful, and has real fun attitude to go along with it--not too
funny, not too goofy. Shaking the shackles of the punk
traditionalism of Oakland, Verbal Abuse crossed over in 1987.
I’ll link the crossover, but check the punk work! They’re both
quite catchy.
Rocks Your Liver
DBC - This is a toughie. Is it crossover? Speed metal? Tech
thrash? Holy cow man, who knows. At the very least, DBC are
going to be our resident Canadians here today. While the
Canadian punk scene was a little more subsided than the
American variant, it had a formidable metal scene and these
Quebecois really upped the game by mixing a bunch of
influences from Metallica, Iron Maiden, and some crossover
thrash and hardcore punk. They’re more well known for their
more tech-y second album, but if you like crossover--check
this out.
Dead Brain Cells

Beowulf - Great friends with Suicidal Tendencies, but more on

the hardcore side. Plenty of mixture of both though! If you’re a
die-hard for Mike Muir, but want something a little different,
Beowulf is where it’s at. Anti-LA glam, imagine the sound of
backyard pool parties and garages blasting with Slayer as
Beowulf can take you back to a time when LA had more punk,
metal, and crossover bands than you could shake a stick at.
Lost My Head…

E. Deep Cuts
Skip here if you just want to hear the weird shit. I’ve got some
doozies here, but they’re regional oddities and dorky fun. I’d
recommend at least getting through the first two tiers before
you start getting here before you know what hits you.

Beyond Possession - Canadians goobers thrashing about with

a heavy amount of punk influence. Excellent stuff with some
extreme metal influence.
Is Beyond Possession

Soothsayer - Canadian crossover with a penchant to lean on

regular thrash, but still maintain that spurious connection to
punk mixed with Canadian thrash. Great if you like Nuclear
Assault or early Sacrifice, too.
Have a Good Time

NYC Mayhem - Reversed evolved from a proper proto-

crossover band back into a hardcore band and mixed in with
the rest of the NYHC crowd after 1985. The phenomenal early
demo is great and an early marker of crossover, but the punk
stuff ain’t bad either.
Mayhemic Destruction
Not-Us - Chicago outfit started as a proto-death/thrash named
“Natas,” they got a sense of humor and an attitude towards
politics towards the late ‘80s and turned towards crossover.
Highly recommend both eras.
Think What You Want

Acrophet - Very very young Wisconsites who by claim came to

crossover as a mixture of hardcore punk and trad metal
influence (think classics like Priest). For the informed listener,
it’ll sound like Bay Area but there are hints and touches of early
heavy metal all over.
Corrupt Minds

dead horse - Texas outfit that mixed a bit of country and other
nascent Texas sounds with crossover thrash and a bit of early
death metal. Essential stuff, one of my all-time favorites.
Horsecore: An Untold Story That’s About Nothing

Lethal Aggression - New Jersey outfit that started with piss-

and-shit humor hardcore and ended up covering Slayer sooner
rather than later. Fascinating combo of very early thrash with
strong hardcore roots. Highly recommend the demos, and the
comp they were on with D.R.I.
Life is Hard...but That’s No Excuse At All!

Fearless Iranians from Hell - Hilarious Texan outfit that

masquerades as Iranian terrorists out to kill Americans,
surprisingly still relevant to this day. Their only proper metal
release, Foolish Americans, is sadly not as strong but their
mid-way between hardcore and thrash sophomore release
packs a lot of punch at both angles.
Holy War

Impulse Manslaughter - One of the more punk bands on here

with an indisputable attitude towards the occasional heavy
metal riff, reminiscent of both Discharge and Cryptic Slaughter
in more ways than one.
He Who Laughs Last...Laughs Alone

411 8 48 Share

48 Comments sorted by Old ˇ
Post is archived

HighwayCorsair guitars and songwriting at Draghk… 1y 

YOU FINALLY DID IT YAY

22 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: American Cr… 1y 

Finally committing to it during my first year of Master's
degree was not the best choice

31 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
But..."fuck yeahs" resounded.

5 Reply

ICantThinkOfAName667 1y 
Too bad you aren’t a musical anthropologist then
you could excuse this as research.

4 Reply

Boggum 1y 
im currently doing a short course on social and
cultural anhropology but i definately feel like
reading these primers will help with that in some
way.

1 Reply

Dat_J3w All Hail Mollusca 1y 

Amazingggg, been waiting for this primer, thanks!!!

4 Reply

killurbeer 1y 
D.R.I is the shit!
 2 Reply

The_Gutgrinder Now I smell like vaseline 1y 

BE-NEATH THE
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL.

3 Reply

onairmastering 1y 
YOU CAN'T WIN.

BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS. CATCH. UP. IN THE

ENDDDDD.

1 Reply

upfromashes 1y 
This is a great write up.

I had a Wehrmacht demo in the '80s that I listened to a

lot.

A number of bands on this list I would see live back in

the day, and a band of two I never really fucked with but
will check out.

1 Reply

Going_Braindead 1y 
I’ll be going through basically all of this. Thanks for the
great work here

1 Reply

glendon24 1y 
Corrosion of Conformity isn't from Texas. They're from
Raleigh, NC.

22 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: American Cr… 1y 

 Good call! I lump them in with D.R.I. a bit.

10 Reply

AllHailLordBezos 1y 
I would also add that Verbal Abuse is similar to that
of DRI, formed in Houston and later relocating to the
Bay Area.

When growing up in Houston, we definitely claimed

them as our own! Overall excellent write up, hit all
the notes I hoped for and a little more

3 Reply

glendon24 1y 
Blind is an absolute classic thrash album by COC.

2 Reply

DeepVeinZombosis 1y 
This is great. Well considered list of bands, with none of
the usual "what the living fuck??" that seems to normally
be connected with these sorts of break downs (not
naming names SAM DUNN).

While the Canadian punk scene was a little more

subsided than the American variant

I think the word is "subdued", but even there I wouldn't

consider that accurate. Canuck punk was second to US
punk only as a matter of numbers. More Americans,
more American punk bands. DOA, SNFU, MDC, Death
Sentence, etc etc etc, Canada really loved its hardcore
punk. Especially Vancouver and Winnipeg.

Annnnyways, I'm not the one writing this list, so maybe I

should shut the fuck up with my armchair critique? Haha

Cheers for this! \m/

13 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: American Cr… 1y 

 Yes, it's probably subdued. Sure, it's second to US
punk in North America! But that's not quite the
comparison isn't it. I was hoping to do a followup to
this in the near future where I explore some of the
more obscure bands and there's a lot more Canadian
bands and even a few Mexican bands I have my eyes
on.

American hardcore is so dominant though, hard to

really ignore what a force it is. Not to say Canadians
didn't have their bands but it's hard to compare to a
nation of angry teens.

5 Reply

DeepVeinZombosis 1y 
For sure. What's also kinda interesting is that, at
that time, there wasn't a super strong line dividing
us hardcore from Canadian hardcore anyways. Part
of the "who gives a fuck" ethos of the movement I
guess...

2 Reply

DeeSnarl 1y 
MDC began in Austin, and was never based in Canada.

2 Reply

mrcoy 1y 
My first real show or concert was in 1993 - saw DRI on
their Definition tour

1 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
Most excellent!!!!!!! Thank you for this! And Prong are the
shit

1 Reply
[deleted] 1y 
[deleted]

11 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: American Cr… 1y 

but the term "crossover" was applied to the

style for a few years before the album by that
name came out

Before even Crossover, "metalcore" was actually more

commonly used as a genre name due to the
portmanteau of metal + hardcore, as heard here where
D.R.I. is introduced as "the hardest metalcore band."
This is before the term crossover became common
parlance.

S.O.D. is a strange case because they were very firmly

connected to the metal scene due to basically being
Anthrax and didn't have quite the crossover appeal
D.R.I., Suicidal, and Cro-Mags did. The crossover
sound is very specifically connected to "hardcore ->
metal" and S.O.D. is more of an anomaly that gets
lumped in after the fact (accurately).

Another note, even though COC eventually

became a full-on sludge/stoner metal band, at
the time the albums Eye for an Eye and
Animosity were just as influential as DRI's
Dealing with It.

At one point in my life I would've absolutely agreed

with you but doing the research for this primer they
came up a lot less than I assumed they did, mostly due
to the fact that by the time Crossover was coming out
they were switching over to stoner/sludge.

6 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
[deleted]
 4 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: Americ… 1y 

The focal point of the guide is 1985-1992 and
over time D.R.I. came out on top, especially out
here on the West Coast. COC had the major
detraction of shifting away from the sound so
that nullifies their overall impact. In no way am I
suggesting to skip COC--I included them in the
section that I did just because they're more
famous for their sludge stuff.

4 Reply

DriveLikeSummer 1y 
Internet Archive has a great collection of zines
completely archived that you can easily view and
download. I think major ones like MRR and
Profane Existence are complete (though, I mostly
go through early issues like from the 1980s and
1990s). Not sure if Kerrang is in there, but if stuff
like MRR and PE are available I reckon it's
archived.

4 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
Plenty of 90s zines and circles were using
“metalcore” a ton before the 2000s. You can
even still access plenty of older zines online and
see.

3 Reply

helpmeiamarobot 1y 
Woo this is rad.

1 Reply

Spiner202 1y 
Awesome thread. There's still a ton of these that I need
to track down, especially those who come more from the
punk/hardcore side of the scene and don't get as much
representation amongst metal fans.

I noticed this list seems to be intentionally kept to the

80s, so I'll avoid making any modern recommendations
except for one band: Birth AD. These guys totally capture
the 80s crossover sound IMO. (edit: I just saw the title
and realized why - my bad)

As for the old-school stuff, the only bands I'd add for the
completionists is Dover Trench, Uncle Slam, Tyrranicide,
and maybe Ironchrist? I feel like a lot of the obscure
bands were really more straight-up thrash groups that
just liked a bit of punk, rather than fully melding the two
sounds.

1 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
Have some ghetto gold. This is one of my favorite
genres, it was basically my entry into extreme metal. It
kinda went like classic rock, grunge, Metallica, punk
rock, crossover, and then more thrash, then death metal,
grindcore, then doom and black metal and now it’s all
over the fuckin place. But this great crossover shit will
always have a special place in my heart when I want to
pretend to be 17 again.

4 Reply

llapman 1y 
No NME?

0 Reply

The_Iron_Goat 1y 
cheers for D.B.C.! No one ever seems to know about
them.

2 Reply
 onairmastering 1y 
I forgot about them but we did have a vinyl doing the
rounds in Colombia in the 90s, along with Scatter
Brain!

1 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
Are you from Texas, by chance? My old hardcore band
was fairly popular in Texas back then (San Antonio), and
we played many shows with FIFH, Dead Horse, etc. Not
trying to make this about myself in any way whatsoever.
Just legitimately curious.

PS- I might add Offenders to the deep cuts. Yup, another

Texas band. But criminally underrated.

3 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: American Cr… 1y 

Nope! From the Mountain West, live on the Coast now.
Would LOVE to hear about playing with FIFH and
horse, would make for some great material!

2 Reply 1

[deleted] 1y 
I was in a band called Crippled By Society (CBS).
We did fairly well in Texas. Other band members
obligations limited our opportunities to get out of
SATX much.

We were decent enough to get to share the stage

with a number of well known HC bands, including a
few in your write up.

Matt, the singer for FIFH and I were roommates for

awhile, actually.

1 Reply

septag0n BlackenedThrashDeathNRoll 1y 
This is an amazing work of documentation!

I'd love a follow up highlighting the current torch bearers

of the last five years or so and their lineage.

1 Reply

B_D_I http://www.last.fm/user/Sgt_Baker 1y 
Great writeup, but I think Body Count deserves some
credit. Their self-titled is a great crossover album,
although they may have been a little late to the game.

3 Reply

sreynolds1 1y 
Thank you for mentioning Dr. know. A workmate
introduced them to me a few years ago. Funnily enough
I’m pretty sure we were listening to the accused the
same night

1 Reply

Jawaka99 1y 
I loved S.O.D and Nuclear Assault. I still listen to them at
the gym.

D.R.I.? Maybe one or two songs...

1 Reply

AllPathsEndTheSame 1y 
Excellent write up! So many classics on your list and
several I've never even heard of.

Growing up in a town dominated by punk, crossover was

always a happy medium that everyone could agree on.
Some of the wildest shows I've ever been to in my life
have been crossover bands playing house shows.
Nothing like a bunch of punks/metalheads going ape shit
over fast music in some randos living room.
I wonder though, why no Broken Bones? Definitely on the
punk side of things, but one of the best
crossover/crossover adjacent bands imo.

1 Reply

shunthemask 1y 
Fun article. Thanks for sharing!

1 Reply

AFlockOfTySegalls 1y 
I was big into punk/hardcore in high school and had the
Suicidal Tendencies Prime Cuts CD. Never went any
further than that. Power Trip really got me back into
metal when Nightmare Logic came out. Of course, this
leads me to try to find more crossover and I picked up
Lights...Camera...Revolution. Holy fuck that album
shreds. Not sure how I never got it in HS. Probably
because Kazaa killed my computer.

2 Reply

alxmolin 1y 
Take my upvote. Nice job.

I should add that I personaly think it's hard to make a

strict distinction between NYHC bands and Crossover
bands. If you mention Leeway and Cro-Mags and such,
you could easily fit bands like Mucky Pup, Murphy's Law
and Gang Green. And perhaps also look over the pond to
Acid Reign and Lawnmower Deth.

Edit again. You clearly state North American Crossover.,

sorry.

1 Reply

[deleted] 1y 
Nicely written, OP. Time to do my homework.

1 Reply
C4YPHER 1y 
No mention of GWAR SMH

0 Reply

onairmastering 1y 
This made my day, made a list and all for my upcoming
road trip.

Would you include Merauder as a contemporary of AF

and Cro Mags?

1 Reply

GreatThunderOwl  Writer: American Cr… 1y 

contemporary

Specifically that word, no--AF and Cro-Mags were

both releasing music almost decade before Merauder.
This guide specifically covers the time period between
1985-1992--the first Merauder demo didn't land until
1993.

2 Reply

onairmastering 1y 
Gotcha! I am blasting Master Killer right now, so
fucking good, made a Crossover list on Spotify for a
road trip! \m/

1 Reply

Milogoestospace 1y 
Love seeing you touch on Final Conflict, Final Conflict
was my life in HS!

1 Reply
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