GHOST TRAIN ORCHESTRA SONGS AND

SYMPHONIQUES

AND KRONOS QUARTET MOONDOG

THE MUSIC OF
“I’M NOT GONNA DIE IN 4/4 TIME”
 MOONDOG IS NOT A NAME YOU HEAR
AS FREQUENTLY AS YOU ONCE DID,
ESPECIALLY IN NEW YORK CITY.
GHOST TRAIN ORCHESTRA
I believe the new album by Ghost
Train Orchestra and Kronos
Quartet will do much to correct
this situation. Whether it will be
your first exposure to his music, or
if you recall his many spirited
productions in the 1950s, his
famous Columbia albums of 1969
and 1971, or the dozens of
collections that came out of
Germany during his final years
there, 1974-1999, or
posthumously right up to the
present, I am convinced you will
be pleasantly surprised by these
new and original interpretations.
When I was researching the
biography of Louis Hardin, aka
Moondog, I was fortunate to
attend several of his recording
sessions in Germany in 1985,
which he conducted in a very
idiosyncratic way. Because he wrote
canons and rounds, he would have
strung around his neck a series of
pages with numbers printed on
them which he would turn over as
he wanted to progress through the
themes and variations.
Then, after my biography of
Moondog was published, I was
allowed to hear some of the tracks
on this album being rehearsed in
New York by Ghost Train
Orchestra. The music, which I
knew well, had been a part of my
life for forty years, but I was
listening not only as a different
person but also to compellingly
different performers. It was
Moondog re-imagined, Moondog
from a new perspective, Moondog
still, but Moondog for our time
and in our place. Ghost Train
Orchestra has performed some of
the pieces on this album several
times in concert, and Kronos
Quartet recorded Synchrony #2,
which Moondog wrote for them,
so both ensembles are familiar
with what has been called, so
often, his “unclassifiable” music.
But if you are new to his music, or
know him only through his music,
you may find that, if anything, his
life was just as compelling and
unique.
That this internationally respected
countercultural figure was a native
Midwesterner seems startling at
first take, as he became an icon as
well as a fixture on the streets of
Manhattan for roughly thirty years.
Louis Hardin was born in Kansas,
on May 26,1916, to an Episcopal
preacher and his wife but he spent
his early years in Wisconsin,
Wyoming and Missouri. Music was
always central in his life, from
hearing his mother play the organ
at his father’s church, to sitting in
the lap of Chief Yellow Calf in
Wyoming while playing snakeskin
drums. At age 16, wandering near
his father’s farm, he found an
object by a railroad trestle,
unaware it was a live dynamite cap,
until it exploded in his face,
blinding him for life. At the Iowa
School for the Blind, Hardin
learned how to read and write
music in Braille and how to play
several instruments.
In the 1940s, Hardin took the
name Moondog and moved to New
York. Though he occasionally
stayed with friends such as Philip
Glass, he lived on and off the
streets of Manhattan for roughly
30 years. Fiercely independent, he
made his own clothes, with his
wardrobe typically consisting of a
horned helmet, and baggy tunics
under a cape. With his long white
beard and a spear he often carried,
he became one of the most
photographed figures in New
York: the Viking of 6th Avenue.
In New York City, he carved out a
career as a performer, mainly in
percussion, before recording his
compositions for increasingly
more sophisticated labels. In
addition, he wrote a great deal of
poetry, usually in couplet form,
much of it centered on Norse
mythology. He created a perpetual
calendar, in which you can locate
the day of the week any event
occurred in the last 2000 plus
years.
He published a series of
newsletters during his decades in
New York, often on politically hot
topics with an edgy voice.
How did he do all this, mostly on
his own and never with a 9 to 5
job? The answer explains much of
the succinct quality of his work.
Using a Braille stylus and slate, he
would punch out a complete work
that fit on a medium size index
card. Thus a series of related
couplets, a canon, a madrigal. But
then a metamorphosis took place.
The couplets could be expanded
indefinitely to become a mock epic
poem. The minimalist
composition–a “minisym” in
Moondog’s terms–could become a
“maxisym” through the
superimposition of one card over
another: thus he built up a long
work from short parts.
It took me a long time to realize
that Moondog, because he was
blind, seldom lived in luxury and
obviously could not use traditional
large staff manuscript paper,
taught himself how to compose
vertically rather than horizontally,
how to assemble a symphony or a
narrative poem by overlaying one
card over another until it could be
bound up. He would then dictate,
note by note, to an expert who
knew his terminology and
purposes, often spending a huge
percentage of his income to
produce the published scores and
pamphlets.
Married briefly in the 1940s, he
married again in the 1950’s and
had a daughter, June, with his wife
Mary, who sang on some of his
recordings; he also fathered a
daughter, Lisa, in the 1960s. His
life in the early 1970s was as
unique as he was. Imagine him
purchasing some raw land a
four-hour bus ride from his
“workplace” at, say, the corner of
6th Avenue and 53rd Street,
walking several miles uphill and
slowly carving out a cave in a
hillside. Imagine Moondog
plowing furrows at night, when it
was cooler, the rig attached to his
head by a cord, in order to plant
vegetables, guided by lines he had
strung in a straight line on either
side.
He left the US in 1974, with almost
no knowledge of German, and
spent the final 25 years of his life
in West Germany. There he was
rescued from desperate straits by a
family with whom he remained for
the rest of his life. He had thought
of himself as a “European in exile”
while in the U.S., and now was
finally granted the ability to be
creative full-time. He filled his
final years with so many
compositions that quite a few have
still not yet been transcribed, let
alone performed or recorded.
Many of his possessions, such as
the bound Braille cards with his
compositions, are stored in the
Moondog Archives in Munster,
Germany.
His life story can be relived in his
music, from his earliest percussion — Robert Scotto, August 2022
pieces, which he performed Robert Scotto is the author of the biography
brilliantly, to his Latin, jazz and Moondog: The Viking of 6th Avenue. He was
classical compositions, often a professor of English at Baruch College,
marrying them in daring new ways. CUNY, until his recent retirement. His
For instance, he wrote numerous previous publications include a Critical
string quartets, but those for lower Edition of Catch-22, a book on the
strings, called “bracelli,” always contemporary American novel and essays on
included percussion Walter Pater, James Joyce and other major
accompaniment on his Trimba, a nineteenth and twentieth century writers. The
compound instrument of his own first edition of his Moondog biography won
unique design. the 2008 ARSC Award for Best Research in
Recorded Classical Music and the
The compositions you will hear Independent Publisher Book Awards 2008
cover just about the entire length bronze medal for biography. He has written
of his career, from the earliest (“All the entry for Moondog in the second edition of
Is Loneliness”) to his later string The Grove Dictionary of American Music.
quartets composed in Germany. It
is not possible to encompass a
career of five decades in one
album, but the “variant brilliance”
of his output, as one admirer, Tony
Schwartz, called it, his range of
styles, his exploration of different
genres, and his idiosyncratic
melding of European classical
forms and American idioms
should be evident as you listen to
these carefully crafted
performances.
 DAVID HARRINGTON SUNNY YANG

KRONOS QUARTET HANK DUTT JOHN SHERBA

GHOST TRAIN ORCHESTRA SONGS AND THEME High on a rocky ledge he
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER pledged his love
SYMPHONIQUES To her every time he climbs

AND KRONOS QUARTET MOONDOG

THE MUSIC OF Ghost Train Orchestra
Kronos Quartet
Soloist: Dennis Lichtman, CLARINET
up to paradise
How many times he’s been
up to see her goodness knows
Huffing and puffing dressed
Recorded in Brooklyn at Bunker RUFUS WAINWRIGHT
in the warmest climbing clothes
Studios / Engineered by Aaron Nevezie, photo by Miranda Penn Turin How many chances would
PRODUCED BY 1 THEME assisted by Alex Conroy Kronos Quartet be taken in his
BRIAN CARPENTER
2 BE A HOBO (WITH RUFUS WAINWRIGHT) recorded at their studio in San Conroy / Kronos Quartet recorded Hopeless pursuit of the
3 HIGH ON A ROCKY LEDGE (WITH MARISSA NADLER) Francisco / Mixed by Brian at their studio in San Francisco / Schnee-Mädel-Edelweiß
PERFORMED BY
Montgomery with Brian Carpenter Rufus Wainwright recorded in Los
GHOST TRAIN ORCHESTRA 4 CARIBEA and David Harrington Angeles at Nest Recorders by Then spoke a spirit “If you
AND KRONOS QUARTET
5 WHY SPEND A DARK NIGHT WITH YOU? (WITH JOAN AS POLICE WOMAN) Chris Sorem / Mixed by Brian would win your Lady Love

ARRANGEMENTS BY 6 ENOUGH ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS (WITH KAREN MANTLER) BE A HOBO Montgomery with Brian Carpenter There’s only one way:
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER and David Harrington fall to your death from high above
GHOST TRAIN ORCHESTRA 7 I’M THIS, I’M THAT (WITH JARVIS COCKER) You will begin to grow
8 SPEAK OF HEAVEN Rufus Wainwright, VOCALS HIGH ON A ROCKY LEDGE in snow beside
9 THE VIKING OF 6TH AVENUE Petra Haden, BACKING VOCALS ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER The one you have waited
Ghost Train Orchestra LYRIC ADAPTATION BY for to be mated with”
10 DOWN IS UP (WITH PETRA HADEN) Kronos Quartet MARISSA NADLER
11 COFFEE BEANS (WITH KAREN MANTLER AND BRIAN CARPENTER) Soloist: Matt Bauder, TENOR SAXOPHONE
12 BEHOLD (WITH SAM AMIDON AND AOIFE O’DONOVAN) Marissa Nadler, VOCALS
Be a hobo and go with me Kronos Quartet
13 CHOO CHOO LULLABY (WITH BRIAN CARPENTER) From Hoboken to the sea Brandon Seabrook, ELECTRIC GUITAR
14 FOG ON THE HUDSON Curtis Hasselbring, RHYTHM GUITAR
15 SEE THE MIGHTY TREE (PETRA HADEN) Ghost Train Orchestra Chris Lightcap, DOUBLE BASS
recorded in Brooklyn
16 BUMBO at Bunker Studios Engineered High on a rocky ledge lives
17 ALL IS LONELINESS (WITH JOAN AS POLICE WOMAN) by Aaron Nevezie, assisted by Alex a Mädel Edelweiß
She has a shadow, lovely as lace, MARISSA NADLER
photo by Nick Fancher
and cold as ice

You who are climbing
breathless to see her and his love
Snow flowers growing
fonder on Lovers Ledge above
If you’ve the yen to pluck
then pluck them both
For they who have lived
as one wish to die as one
Recorded live with Marissa Nadler in
NYC at East Side Studios Engineered
by Marc Urselli / Edited by Zach Miley
with Brian Carpenter and David
Harrington / Mixed by Seth Manchester
at Machines with Magnets
CARIBEA
ARRANGED BY CURTIS HASSELBRING
Kronos Quartet
David Cossin, CAJON
Recorded in NYC at East Side Studios
/ Engineered by Marc Urselli / Mixed by
Zach Miley with David Harrington and
Curtis Hasselbring / Additional mixing
by John Kilgore with David Harrington
JOAN WASSER
photo by Peter Gannushkin
WHY SPEND A DARK
NIGHT WITH YOU?
ARRANGED BY MAXIM MOSTON
Joan as Police Woman, vocals
Ghost Train Orchestra
Why spend a dark night with you? What
a fearful price to pay
Other nights would be lonely
dark ages for me
Ghost Train Orchestra recorded in
Brooklyn at Bunker Studios /
Engineered by Aaron Nevezie, assisted
by Alex Conroy / Joan As Police Woman
recorded in Brooklyn at Trout
Recording by Adam Sachs / Mixed by
Brian Montgomery
with Brian Carpenter
and Maxim Moston
ENOUGH ABOUT
HUMAN RIGHTS
ARRANGED BY MATT BAUDER
Karen Mantler, VOCALS, HARMONICA
Ghost Train Orchestra
Kronos Quartet
Enough about human rights
What about whale rights?
What about snail rights?
What about seal rights?
What about eel rights?
What about coon rights?
What about loon rights?
What about ant rights?
(What about? What about?
What about?)
What about moose rights?
What about goose rights?
What about lark rights?
KAREN MANTLER
photo by Peter Gannushkin
JARVIS COCKER
photo by Tom Bunning
What about shark rights? (What about? What about?
What about fox rights? What about?)
What about ox rights?
What about hawk rights? What about bug rights?
(What about? What about? What about slug rights?
What about? What about bass rights? I’m young, I’m old
What about ass rights? I’m hot, I’m cold
What about goat rights? What about worm rights?
What about stoat rights? What about germ rights? I’m right, I’m wrong
What about pike rights? What about dog rights? I’m weak, I’m strong
What about shrike rights?
What about hare rights? Ghost Train Orchestra recorded in I’m high, I’m low
What about bear rights? Brooklyn at Bunker Studios/ Karen I’m fast, I’m sloooooooow
What about plant rights? Mantler recorded in Woodstock at
Hidden Quarry by Danny Blume I’m here, I’m there
Enough about human rights Engineered by Aaron Nevezie, assisted I’m foul, I am fair (yeah yeah yeah)
What about hog rights? by Alex Conroy / Kronos Quartet
What about frog rights? recorded at their studio in San I am bold, I’m shy
What about kite rights? Francisco / Mixed by Brian I’m wet, I’m dry
What about mite rights? Montgomery with Matt Bauder
What about bee rights? and David Harrington I’m best, I’m worst
What about flea rights? I’m blessed, I’m cursed
What about stork rights? I’M THIS, I’M THAT
(What about? What about? ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER I’m good, I’m bad
What about?) I’m gay, I’m sad (so sad)
Jarvis Cocker, VOCALS
What about bat rights? Kronos Quartet I’m lost, I’m found
What about gnat rights? Chris Lightcap, DOUBLE BASS I’m free,I’m bound
What about mouse rights? Brian Carpenter, HARMONIUM
What about louse rights? David Cossin, BASS DRUM I’m false, I’m true
What about cat rights? I’m I, I’m you
What about rat rights? I’m this, I’m that I’m you
What about snake rights? I’m sharp, I’m flat I am you
Kronos Quartet recorded in NYC at
East Side Studios by Marc Urselli /
Jarvis Cocker recorded in London at
Angel Studios by Jeremy Murphy /
Mixed by Zach Miley with Brian
Carpenter and David Harrington /
Additional mixing by John Kilgore
SPEAK OF HEAVEN
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER
Kronos Quartet
Chris Lightcap, DOUBLE BASS
Kronos Quartet recorded in NYC at
East Side Studios by Marc Urselli /
Mixed by Zach Miley with Brian
Carpenter and David Harrington /
Additional mixing by John Kilgore
THE VIKING OF 6TH AVENUE
ARRANGED BY CURTIS HASSELBRING
Ghost Train Orchestra
Kronos Quartet
Soloist: Matt Bauder, BARITONE
SAXOPHONE
Ghost Train Orchestra recorded in
Brooklyn at Bunker Studios /
Engineered by Aaron Nevezie, assisted
by Alex Conroy / Kronos Quartet
recorded at their studio in San
Francisco / Mixed by Brian
Montgomery with David Harrington
and Curtis Hasselbring
BRANDON SEABROOK
photo by Peter Gannushkin
DOWN IS UP
ARRANGED BY DAVID COSSIN
Petra Haden, VOCALS
David Cossin, PERCUSSION
Brandon Seabrook, GUITARS
Brian Carpenter, HARMONIUM
Down is up and so up is down
Because the earth is round
There is no such a thing
as up or down
David Cossin recorded at home in NYC
/ Petra Haden recorded at home in Los
Angeles / Mixed by Brian Montgomery
with David Cossin and Brian
Carpenter
COFFEE BEANS
ARRANGED BY ANDY LASTER
Ghost Train Orchestra
Kronos Quartet
Karen Mantler, VOCALS, HARMONICA
Brian Carpenter, VOCALS
Soloist: Karen Mantler, HARMONICA
Coffee beans make the
finest coffee of all
It’s time to take
A coffee break
To sit around and savor
The rarest coffee flavor
Of bean coffee
I make with bottled spring water
Is my day
Ghost Train Orchestra recorded in
Brooklyn at Bunker Studios /
Engineered by Aaron Nevezie, assisted
by Alex Conroy / Kronos Quartet
recorded at their studio in San
Francisco / Karen Mantler and Brian
Carpenter recorded in Woodstock at
Hidden Quarry by Danny Blume /
Mixed by Brian Montgomery with
David Harrington and Andy Laster
SAM AMIDON
Photo by Terry Magson
BEHOLD
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER
Kronos Quartet
Sam Amidon, VOCALS, BANJO
Aoife O’Donovan, VOCALS
Behold the willow bows before me
But not the oak I’m uprooting Behold
the willow bows before me
Remarked the wind
But not the oak I’m uprooting
Remarked the wind
Kronos Quartet recorded in San
Francisco at 25th Street Studios by
Zach Miley / Aoife O’Donovan recorded
at Full Sail by Darren Schneider / Sam
Amidon recorded at home in London /
Mixed by John Kilgore with Brian
Carpenter and David Harrington
CHOO CHOO LULLABY
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER
Kronos Quartet
Brian Carpenter, VOCALS, HARMONICA
Chris Lightcap, BASS
Choo-Choo Lullaby,
sing oh me oh my
Rock-a-baby high, Choo-Choo
Rock-a-baby low, rock-a-baby slow
To Promontory Point we go
Choo-Choo, have you heard?
Mind you, not a word
There’s to be a back-tracking
Back to coal and steam,
isn’t that a scream?
I heard it from a miner bird
BRIAN CARPENTER
photo by Peter Gannushkin
Carter wants her back, back to
Hackensack
Carter out in Wyoming
Carter wants her back,
back to blow her stack
So Choo-Choo see what you can do
Give her back her track,
give her back her stack
Taller than a tale, Choo-Choo
Giver her back her crew,
give her back her due
Along the California trail
Give a boat a sail, give a kite a tail
Give a drought a rain, Choo-Choo
Give your dear old dad
what he never had
An honest engine Choo-Choo train
Union! Union!
Union Pacific Railroad
Union! Union!
Union Pacific Railroad
Kronos Quartet recorded in NYC at
East Side Studios by Marc Urselli /
Brian Carpenter recorded in London at
Angel Studios by Jeremy Murphy /
Mixed by Zach Miley with
Brian Carpenter and David Harrington
FOG ON THE HUDSON
ARRANGED BY DAVID COSSIN
David Cossin, CAJON, SHAKER,
WOODBLOCKS, PANS
Brian Carpenter, STEEL PANS
David Cossin recorded at home in NYC
/ Brian Carpenter recorded at home in
Boston MA / Mixed by Brian
Montgomery with Brian Carpenter
and David Cossin
SEE THE MIGHTY TREE
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER
AND PETRA HADEN
Petra Haden, VOCALS
See the mighty tree
It bears the name of Yggdrasil
l MAXIM MOSTON, VIOLIN
PETRA HADEN
photo by Steven Perilloux
Petra Haden recorded at home in Los
Angeles / Mixed by Brian Montgomery
BUMBO
ARRANGED BY BRIAN CARPENTER
SARA SCHOENBECK
photo by Peter Gannushkin
Ghost Train Orchestra
Kronos Quartet
Soloists:
Sara Schoenbeck, BASSOON
Brandon Seabrook, GUITAR
Chris Lightcap, DOUBLE BASS
Ghost Train Orchestra recorded in
Brooklyn at Bunker Studios /
Engineered by Aaron Nevezie, assisted
by Alex Conroy / Kronos Quartet
recorded at their studio in
San Francisco/ Mixed by Brian
Montgomery with Brian Carpenter
and David Harrington
ALL IS LONELINESS
ARRANGED BY MAXIM MOSTON
Kronos Quartet
Joan Wasser, VOCALS
Curtis Hasselbring, GUITAR
Matt Bauder, BASS CLARINET
Chris Lightcap, DOUBLE BASS
Brian Carpenter, BASS DRUM
Kronos Quartet recorded in NYC at
East Side Studios by Marc Urselli /
Joan Wasser recorded in Brooklyn at
Trout Recording by Adam Sachs /
Mixed by John Kilgore with David
Harrington and Maxim Mosto
GHOST TRAIN ORCHESTRA
BRIAN CARPENTER, TRUMPET,
HARMONIUM, VOCALS, MUSICAL DIRECTOR
ANDY LASTER, ALTO SAXOPHONE, FLUTE
DENNIS LICHTMAN, CLARINET
MATT BAUDER, BASS CLARINET,
TENOR SAXOPHONE, BARITONE SAXOPHONE
SARA SCHOENBECK, BASSOON
COLIN STETSON, BASS SAXOPHONE
CURTIS HASSELBRING,
TROMBONE, GUITAR
RON CASWELL, TUBA
BRANDON SEABROOK, GUITAR
CHRIS LIGHTCAP, DOUBLE BASS,
ELECTRIC BASS
ROB GARCIA, DRUMS, XYLOPHONE
DAVID COSSIN, MARIMBA, CAJON,
HAND PERCUSSION
KRONOS QUARTET
DAVID HARRINGTON, VIOLIN
JOHN SHERBA, VIOLIN
HANK DUTT, VIOLA
SUNNY YANG, CELLO
Produced by BRIAN CARPENTER
All music and lyrics by
LOUIS HARDIN AKA MOONDOG
All new arrangements by
BRIAN CARPENTER, DAVID COSSIN,
CURTIS HASSELBRING, MAXIM
MOSTON, ANDY LASTER, and
MATT BAUDER
Kronos Quartet tracks edited
by ZACH MILEY and mixed by
JOHN KILGORE
Ghost Train Orchestra
tracks edited and mixed by
BRIAN MONTGOMERY
“High on a Rocky Ledge”
mixed by SETH MANCHESTER
Mastering by BOB LUDWIG
Executive producers:
MICHAEL GORDON, DAVID LANG,
KENNY SAVELSON AND JULIA WOLFE
Label manager: BILL MURPHY
Sales & licensing: ADAM CUTHBERT
Label assistant: PHONG TRAN
Art Direction & Design by
JEFF MATZ OF LURE DESIGN
Inside Center jacket
Moondog photo by PHILIPPE GRAS
SAM AMIDON appears courtesy of
Nonesuch Records / JARVIS COCKER
appears courtesy of Rough Trade
Records / MARISSA NADLER
appears courtesy of Sacred Bones
Records / AOIFE O’DONOVAN
appears courtesy of Yep Roc
Records / RUFUS WAINWRIGHT
appears courtesy of BMG Records /
JOAN WASSER appears courtesy of
PIAS Recordings
Kronos Quartet photos by
LENNY GONZALEZ
Ghost Train Orchestra live photos
by PETER GANNUSHKIN
Ghost Train Orchestra in-studio
photos by DANIEL EFRAM
Ghost Train Orchestra
group photo by REUBEN RADDING
SPECIAL THANKS:
Robert Scotto, Wolfgang Gnida,
Bryce Goggin, Janet Cowperthwaite,
Reshena Liao, Niko McConnie-
Saad, Sarah Donahue, Alex Conroy,
Sara Caswell, Dina Macabee, Karen
Waltuch, Alex Waterman, Ashley
Bathgate, Theo Bleckmann, Joan
Wasser, Karen Mantler, J.G.
Thirlwell, Brad Jones, Irwin Chusid,
Mog Yoshihara, Evan Chapman at
Four/Ten Media, Brice Rosenbloom,
Brett Tabisel and Jay Eigenmann at
Le Poisson Rouge in NYC, and
Michael Gordon, Kenny Savelson,
and Bill Murphy at Cantaloupe.
This record is dedicated
to HAL WILLNER.
For more about everything you hear on
this recording, visit cantaloupemusic.com,
ghosttrainorchestra.com,
kronosquartet.org and moondog-
music.com. To get specially priced
advance copies of all our new releases, as
well as catalog discounts and other perks,
sign up for the Cantaloupe Club or our
digital subscription service at
cantaloupemusic.com/fans. As always,
we thank you for your support.
 IRWIN
CHUSID
IN CONVERSATION
IRWIN CHUSID: I wanted to start with an
BRIAN
anecdote. You know how Pandora works? You
start with a seed, an artist, then you add other
artists. Pandora creates a musical algorithm
CARPENTER
which will play artists in a pocket or a genre.
You can create any number of stations to listen
to depending on your mood. I’ve got a
late-night quiet classical station, a hard-bop
station, a sweet sugary indie pop station, a
78-era station, and others. You can then like or
unlike a song and Pandora tailors your station
accordingly. 95% of what you hear is in the
DAVID
genre you want. I tried to create a channel based
on Moondog. The content was incredibly
schizophrenic. It was playing classical, jazz,
HARRINGTON hip-hop, new age, chamber music, psychedelia,
folk, prog, Celtic music. I had to delete the
channel because it was driving me crazy!
Pandora could not determine what genre
Moondog belonged in.
In listening to Moondog and your
album — it’s gorgeous, I’m so
impressed — I hear so many
different styles. It’s not generic —
it’s Moondog! Maybe Moondog is
the genre. He reflects so many
different styles, different genres.
He’s not easily pigeonholed — and
yet there is an identity to his
music. I presume this is why the
two of you were drawn to
Moondog.
BRIAN CARPENTER: Oh, for
sure. I read somewhere that he is a
"composer’s composer," much like
Alec Wilder, someone who wrote
music across genres – chamber
music, jazz, songs with lyrics,
choir music, music for
percussion.
Moondog’s music eludes a specific
style, but everything has his
unmistakable signature. I’m always
interested in artists that fall
between the cracks. He’s a perfect
example of that.
DAVID HARRINGTON: Between
the cracks is where everything
grows, you know.
BC: I love that, yes!
DH: It’s what causes more cracks
in the cement!
BC: There are not many artists
who have the ability to do that, to
write in all of these different styles
convincingly. I love different styles
of music so Moondog appealed to
me. One of the things we were
trying to do on the record was
show the breadth of his work — to
present the entire spectrum of his
music. It then becomes obvious
that he’s not looking at music in
silos or genres, he’s looking at it as
all one music. I don’t know if you
got that impression, David,
because at times it often felt like a
roller coaster working on this
record!
DH: To me, it felt so natural. I
didn’t even think of genre. "Oh,
this song needs a harmonica!"
There’s something incredibly
buoyant about the spirit of it. I was
telling someone the other day that
the time we live in right now, we
need to be like corks in water.
Everything is trying to push us
down, but a cork just rises up.
And when I listen to this record,
that’s what it feels like.
Brian, you and I have talked about
this, but I think it’s important that
listeners know when this was
22
made. Working with you and
Brian Montgomery and Zach
Miley and the rest of Kronos and
the arrangers, this was a lifeline
during the shutdown for me
personally. The work we did on
Zoom…what’s that program we
were able to use?
BC: AudioMovers.
IC: What is it? I’ve never heard of it.
BC: It’s a platform that allows
remote collaboration using audio
playback in real- time. So, for
example, I’m in Boston, David is
in San Francisco, and Brian
Montgomery is in New York.
Brian would bring up
AudioMovers, which allowed us all
to listen together in real-time to
his session. If David or I hear
something, we’ll ask Brian to stop,
he’ll fix it, and then play it back,
with negligible delay. What’s
fascinating is that before the
pandemic, we never knew this was
possible! David and I saw each
other in March 2020 as the
pandemic was breaking in New
York, and we were racking our
brains trying to figure out how we
were going to mix the record
remotely. We had no concept of
three people being in different
parts of the country being able to
mix remotely in real-time.
IC: You could always send stems,
but then you’ve got to upload
them, someone else has to
download them, work alone on
the mix, send the attempted
results, and then get feedback It’s a
very inefficient process.
BC: Exactly. And that process
would never have worked in our
case. David and I are very
detail-oriented and are hearing
things on every iteration. It was
clear to me that the process you
just described — sending around
stems and remixes — would never
have worked. We would never have
reached the finish line.
IC: So AudioMovers creates a
virtual studio?
DH: That’s a good way of saying it.
My wife Regan was in the house
while we were doing this. She said
she could tell we were having a
good time every week we did it.
And it’s true.
It felt like we were polishing these
amazingly beautiful gems that just
got more and more precious as we
worked on them. To step back and
listen to these now is really
satisfying, isn’t it? It feels like
there’s a world there. And Brian —
the listeners ought to know, it’s
not only Moondog. What you
brought to this is exceptionally
amazing!
BC: I appreciate that. We tried to
reimagine the music and that’s the
idea behind Ghost Train — to try
to reimagine it for today and
through our own experiences and
influences.
DH: In addition to the obvious
instrumental brilliance of the
players, there’s also the aspect of
the composer collective, or in this
case the arranger collective.
BC: That was another interesting
facet to this project. It was
something we had never done
prior to this record. We released
four albums before this, and I had
always taken on all of the
arranging, so all the heavy lifting
was on me. This time I thought,
"Why am I doing all of this work
when we have Curtis Hasselbring,
Andy Laster, David Cossin, Max
Moston, and Matt Bauder and all
of these great arrangers and
composers?" So this time I farmed
out all of the arranging, and they
were very receptive to it.
DH: Working with each of the
arrangers was great for us because
we’ve worked with many different
composers. So in addition to the
Moondog connection, we also got
connected to these new arranger/
composer/instrumentalists. It felt
like everyone was growing. And I
didn’t know this, actually — that
this was the first time you opened
this up to the band. But I sense
that it’s made the group stronger.
You’ve discovered new talents, and
so when the next record comes
along, who knows what could
happen!
BC: Absolutely. It opened up a
whole new world for us. And of
course, as soon as you delegate
that responsibility, everyone has
more a vested interest in the band.
So it’s not just about me — it’s
about everyone. It’s like any other
field. As soon as you bring in
other people and other
teammates, everyone gets more
excited and there is a camaraderie
that develops. I would bring in a
piece to rehearsal, and Curtis
would present a piece and his
piece would knock me out!
There was this healthy
competition, which we’re first
experiencing over ten years into
the band’s history. I told them we
should have been doing this since
day one!
DH: But maybe it wouldn’t have
worked back then. What’s really
cool here is it seems like each of
the pieces has the right
arrangement. I’m talking about
from my perspective as a player
and member of Kronos. I’m
always concerned when making an
album, creating a sense of texture
and variety and leading the
listener through all kinds of
different parameters. That’s what I
get when I hear the record now. I
don’t have to think of myself as
being a part of it, I can just listen
as a member of the audience. I’m
having a great time enjoying the
scope of sounds and flavors and
colors. It’s really something to be
proud of.
IC: How did you recruit the
vocalists?
BC: Well, that’s an interesting
story. It started with Joan Wasser,
23
who sings on two songs on the
record.
IC: Didn’t I see her sing with you
at Le Poisson Rouge?
BC: Yes, that’s right. Joan has
been with us since the beginning
of this project. Max [Moston] and
Joan are close friends, so it was his
idea to bring her in, and she really
knocked it out of the park. She
sang on the very first concert we
did of this material at the Winter
JazzFest in New York in 2019.
When Joan started singing with us,
it was immediately clear that
incorporating singers into the
project would add this whole other
energy. Her performances were so
strong, and until she came along,
we had never had a singer in this
band.
IC: Except you.
BC: Except me, yes.
DH: That’s a good point, Irwin.
Brian has stories about a lot of the
singers, but I have to step back to
Kronos’s Pete Seeger album Long
Time Passing. We had been recording
Moondog in New York in 2019,
and Brian, you had sent me a
demo of one of the songs. And I
thought, that’s the voice we need
on the Pete Seeger album! That’s
how you ended up on the Pete
Seeger album. And from there,
you met Sam Amidon and Aoife
O’Donovan, and they both ended
up on this album. So that’s how
albums kind of work together.
Then you came to the final mix of
the Seeger album and that’s when
Hal [Willner] was there. That was
March 11, 2020.
IC: Was Hal involved in this
project?
BC: No, but of course it has his
spirit.
IC: Absolutely.
DH: And that’s how you met John
Kilgore who mixed this record.
BC: Yes! That’s one of the reasons
I went and I’m glad I did. You
recommended John for the
Moondog record and I wanted to
meet him. And it just so happened
that Hal’s office was down the hall,
and he stopped by to listen to the
entire Seeger record start to
finish.
DH: I watched the Leonard Cohen
movie Hallelujah — it’s about the
song. And I saw Hal’s office.
IC: Oh, I was in that office! It was
a toy store.
DH: And you never knew what you
might hear, see, or experience in
that toy store.
IC: Wherever you turned, there
were toys, puppets, marionettes,
toy boxes, and game boards. It was
like an overgrown adolescent had
taken over a room in an office
building.
DH: Actually, that movie is
dedicated to Hal, as is our Pete
Seeger album. Hal was a favorite
of mine. And why are we talking
about Hal? Because his spirit is in
this too.
IC: Because of the variety of artists
on this album, and the variety of
the styles of music. That was Hal’s
idea — to say, these tracks don’t
have to be consistent, the only
thing that needs to be consistent is
the source of the music, the
composer.
Beyond that, anything goes. Only
Hal could have brought Sun Ra
into a Disney album and made it
work.
BC: Right before we left, I went
into Hal’s office and told him
about the Moondog record. I
guess he had heard about it
through you, David, and he had
friends at our concert which was
just a few weeks earlier. He was
very tickled by the idea of us doing
this record because he said he’d
wanted to do a Moondog record
for years. Which I didn’t know
prior to speaking with him.
DH: Did I tell you what he said to
me in that last conversation? He
said "We gotta do Howl! I’m
sounding more like Allen
Ginsberg every day!"
BC, IC: {laughing}
DH: And we’d been talking about
it for years, actually. But Hal and
Moondog kind of belong in the
same category. And Irwin, I would
include you there too.
IC: Big ears!
DH: We just saw Philip Glass the
other night too, and you find the
connection there. And you learn
about Steve Reich and La Monte
Young, and the connections are
vast, really.
IC: That was an epiphany for me
when I read Robert Scotto’s
biography of Moondog. To learn
about the Philip Glass and Steve
Reich connections – I’d never
made that connection before, yet
now it seems obvious.
BC: It may have been Steve Reich
who called him "the godfather of
minimalism," because he was
involved in these musical patterns
very early. Of course, Moondog
disliked that term, because he
disliked any categorization of his
music. But you can definitely hear
it in pieces like "Theme" and
"Bumbo," for example.
IC: I remember the Meltdown
Festival in ’95 in London. Elvis
Costello was the curator.
Moondog was there and I met
him. He was gigantic. I was a little
scared of him because he was in
his Viking garb, he was gigantic —
and he was Moondog!
He was performing with his brass
big band — 25 saxophones, while
he banged a bass drum. Who else
would do that? 25 saxophones and
a bass drum! And it was
magnificent.
DH: Brian, I have a question. The
alternate violin I use when we play
"Summertime" and when I want
to sound like Janis Joplin or an
Iranian bagpipe – how did you
think of bringing that in on
"Behold"?
IC: What instrument is that?
DH: Irwin, before I answer that, I
just want to say that when Brian
proposed that idea, I thought,
"You know, Brian and I are
brothers. We just didn’t know it!"
{laughing} That’s the kind of idea
I would have but I didn’t have it,
Brian had it. And I just thought
"This is great, this is so cool!"
BC: I think I heard you play it on
"Last Kind Words" from Folk Songs.
And I didn’t know what it was, I
just loved the sound.
DH: Oh yeah, that’s the Geeshie
Wiley piece.
So, what it is, Irwin, it’s a violin I
have tuned in a certain way. There
are two A strings and two D
strings, so it’s basically the vocal
range. I play everything in fifths.
This is a violin I bought when I
was 11 years old, and the
fingerboard has never been
planed. Well, you can’t play a really
good fifth without a whole lot of
effort because the fingerboard is
wavy like this {demonstrates a wavy
line}.
IC: It’s warped from age?
DH: It’s warped from fingers
{laughing}.
IC: From being loved.
DH: From being loved and
handled. I got this idea from
listening to an Iranian bagpipe. I
had to figure out a way to sound
like this. My life will not be
complete if I don’t. And
you can hear that track on the
Floodplain album.
BC: Yeah, it’s an amazing sound. I
remember when we were
recording "Behold," everyone in
the control room fell out of their
chair when you got to that section
after Sam’s verse. It was as if a
hurricane had hit the recording
studio! But your description just
now explains the chorusing effect
we hear on that. It sounds like two
violins playing together, but it’s
just David. Incredible.
DH: You know, Brian, we should
tell Irwin that some of the tracks
Kronos recorded were in
isolation. That was a huge
challenge.
BC: Had Kronos ever done
anything like that before?
DH: We had tried it one or two
times before the pandemic. Early
enough to know how hard it was
and how much we all disliked
being our own recording
engineer.
{laughing}
IC: You were file-sharing? You
would record and then send a file
along and then another person
would try to play along with that
track?
DH: Yes. There was a certain
point when we were doing it one
way, and Brian had to teach us
how to do it a better way.
BC: I think that was strictly for the
orchestra overdubs in 2020.
IC: What’s the trick?
BC: Well, what we did was, we
started using GarageBand. Ghost
Train created references of the
orchestra tracks in GarageBand,
and we would send them to Sunny.
Sunny would record her overdubs,
then send her file to Hank, then
Hank would record — listening to
Sunny plus Ghost Train — then
Hank would send his file to John,
and so on. By the time it got to
David, he could hear everybody.
Those orchestra overdubs were
done in GarageBand because it
was the simplest and most effective
way to get everyone ramped up.
Remember, back then you couldn’t
be in the same room with even a
few people. But kind of amazingly
we were able to make that work. If
I remember correctly, I put
together a tutorial and presented it
to Kronos. So I had to learn it
first and figure out a solution and
then present it to them.
DH: That’s right.
BC: We haven’t brought up the fact
that Moondog was blind.
IC: He had vision until 16, I think,
and was blinded in an accident.
BC: Think about that. This is
someone who was super-prolific,
composed hundreds of pieces
in Braille.
IC: …and designed his own
strange clothing. And lived on the
streets. And bought a parcel of
land in upstate New York and built
himself a little shack to live in by
himself in the woods. He had sued
DJ Alan Freed after Freed had used
the name "Moondog" in his radio
show, which he titled "Moondog
Matinee." Moondog sued, and
whatever the settlement was, it was
enough for him to buy 40 acres of
real estate in Candor, New York.
He lived in this shack, and wanted
to have a telephone line put in.
The guy arrives from the phone
company and found that Moondog
was unaware that a nest of snakes
was living on the roof. Talk about
being blind and having the
resilience to do all these things.
He was intrepid. He would get on
a bus and go great distances to
unfamiliar places. It’s unthinkable
for any of us to imagine doing any
of that being blind.
DH: When you step back and think
about what you’re hearing on this
album, it does raise the whole bar
for all of us. To make use of what
we have more profoundly, more
expansively, more completely.
That is an inspiring aspect of this
and I’m glad you mentioned that.
When I listened to the entire
album the other day, that did come
to mind. That’s on the same order
as Beethoven being deaf.
BC: It’s an incredible story. I love
the biographical and the historical
aspect of these records. And
David, Kronos has released so
many records over the decades and
each one of them is their own
world. To me, part of the
adventure, even beyond the music,
is going into that whole world and
doing the reading and the
research. For example. I saw David
in New York and he gave me the
new My Lai record, a new opera by
Jonathan Berger. It’s a beautiful,
gripping record. I got swept into
the story through the liner notes
and found the Hugh Thompson
interview online. Part of these
projects for me are history projects
as well. I’ve always been a history
buff, so maybe that’s part of it.
IC: Brian, I agree with you
completely and I understand that.
And it’s one of the reasons that I
enjoy my work so much. Because
it’s one thing to work with music.
But to me, it enhances my
appreciation of music when there’s
a story. Sun Ra has a story. It’s not
an easy one to explain. It’s very
complicated and easily
misunderstood. Fortunately, there
is one book, Space is the Place by
John Szwed, that’s so brilliantly
written, it’s all you need to know
about Sun Ra. The same way
Robert Scotto’s book The Viking
of 6th Avenue tells you all you
need to know about Moondog.
In terms of condensing someone’s
life, Robert succeeded in doing
that. Szwed succeeded in doing that.
But it’s great to have that story.
When you did Book of Rhapsodies, you
were dealing with John Kirby, Alec
Wilder, Hal Herzon, and
Raymond Scott. I’m leaving
someone out…
BC: Reginald Foresythe.
IC: Reginald Foresythe! There’s a
story. David, have you ever heard
of Reginald Foresythe?
DH: No, I’m writing it down right
now in my book.
IC: He was of West African and
German extraction, but grew up in
England. A light-skinned black
man who had a band called The
New Music of Reginald Foresythe.
He did these very programmatic
and cinematic orchestral works
that sound a bit like Raymond
Scott, but they pre-dated
Raymond Scott! And he had
eccentric titles, like "Serenade to
a Wealthy Widow" and "Berceuse
for an Unwanted Child," and
"The Autocrat Before Breakfast."
BC: He also did these beautiful
miniatures and tone poems like
"A Hymn to Darkness," which is in
two movements.
IC: It’s really wonderful. And
again, there’s a story that goes
along with it. Supposedly he was a
big drinker, so he ended up
drinking himself out of his
profession. But he had a good
solid 10-year period during which
he was very productive and left
behind a legacy which was largely
forgotten. Until someone like
Brian comes along and puts
someone like Reginald Foresythe
back on the map. And Moondog
certainly has a very powerful story.
BC: I’m very attracted to the
stories. Part of making the record
is creating that whole story. The
opening track is so important in
creating that whole world.
Moondog is associated with the
street, so we incorporated New
York street sounds throughout.
When I think of Moondog, I
think of him standing on that
street corner in Manhattan in
that Viking garb. So we wanted
to convey that from the very
beginning.
IC: What Moondog, Raymond
Scott, Esquivel, and Sun Ra had
in common was they were
control freaks. They were
stubborn people who had to do
things their way, which probably
made them very difficult to work
with. I met so many musicians
who complained about
Raymond Scott, that he was a
bully, a drill sergeant, that he’d
fire you because you hit a wrong
note. Sun Ra, if you didn’t do
what he said, you were in what
he called the "Ra Jail." Or he’d
give you a bus ticket in the
middle of a tour and send you
home. I’ve said it before that if
Raymond Scott and Sun Ra were
still alive, I don’t think they’d let
me do what I’m doing. Because
they’d want to control it!
DH: We were doing the world
premiere of Harry Partch’s U.S.
Highball and I got hate mail
backstage before the gig. I mean,
there have probably been more
people who have heard our
version of Harry Partch than
heard the original Partch
recording, unfortunately. They
said the music could not be
done live. That just seemed sad
to me.
BC: Oh absolutely, that was
another of the reasons why we
wanted to tackle Moondog’s
music. It’s New York music but
there was no band in New York,
or even in the States,
performing it. That seemed
wrong to us. It seemed like we
had the right personalities and
the right instrumentation to
take on the music.
Another facet of Moondog was
that he built his own
instruments. I put our
percussionist David Cossin on a
mission to arrange several
Moondog pieces for his own
vocabulary and set of
instruments. He arranged and
recorded several different pieces
at his place, two of which are on
this volume, and the rest will be
on the next volume. David
cobbled together some of his
own unique sounds for the
record. He has an amazing
library of percussion. Ghost
Train rehearsed at his place in
lower Manhattan on a regular
basis over a year or two, so I was
very familiar with his setup. He
would open his closet and he
would have rows and rows of
claves and shakers and all
manner of percussion and
multiple marimbas. It seemed
endless! I loved working with
Cossin. His contributions are
stunning on
this record.
IC: I just got Curtis’s new record
Curha 3. He’s really amazing, and
so surprising. You think of him
as a trombonist and then you
hear these records and you
think, wow, he’s a musical
polymath!
BC: Yes, he seems to play
everything!
IC: You have so many great
musicians in that band.
Drummer Rob Garcia is
incredible.

BC: I’ve been fortunate to have
the greatest musicians in this band
who have stayed with me from the
very beginning. Remembering
back to the rehearsals, I’m
reminded of how deceptively
simple Moondog’s music is. As a
musician sitting down to play this
music, you look at it on the page
and you think it’s going to be easy,
it’s a bunch of repeated figures.
And then you try to play it with the
rest of the ensemble, and it’s so
rhythmically complex. It took us a
very long time to find the strong
string section we eventually ended
up working with in New York,
namely Max Moston, Sara
Caswell, Mazz Swift, Karen
Waltuch, Dina Maccabee, and Alex
Waterman. But before we found
them, string players would come
in and trip up over and over again
on the rhythms. And that’s where
the idea of bringing in a seasoned
quartet came from. We said, let’s
start with Kronos and work our
way down the list! And David got
back to me immediately. I was so
pleased that you were open to the
idea, David, and so enthusiastic
about it.
UNSPOKEN
TO TELL THAT MUST REMAIN
TOKEN, IS HE WHO HAS A TONGUE
OUNCE OF WORDS IS JUST A
THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS THIS
DH: I’m trying to figure out when BC: Oh wow, I didn’t know that
I first heard about Moondog, whole back story. And yes, it sure
because it was a long time ago. has been a great adventure.
I found out he was living in Irwin Chusid is a self-described
Germany. I found out where he “landmark preservationist” who
lived and the person to write to, has championed the rediscoveries
and then we were in Munich, I of Raymond Scott, Sun Ra,
think, and Ilona Sommer and Esquivel, Jim Flora, and the
Moondog came to dinner with me. Mighty Sparrow, all of whose
I’m thinking this was in the late artistic rights he administers. He
’80s or early ’90s. So Moondog has hosted an eclectic radio show
came to our show in Munich. And on WFMU since 1975, and his
then he went home and he wrote book Songs in the Key of Z was the first
two pieces for us, and in two chronicle of Outsider Music.
weeks, we received the
manuscripts. "Synchrony No. 2"
is the one that’s on the Early Music
album. And that was exactly what
happened with Astor Piazzolla;
two weeks after he heard our show,
he sent us Four for Tango. So it was
just this instant connection. With
Moondog, we talked about other
things but nothing else gelled, and
I never met him again. So when
you mentioned the idea of a large
exploration, Brian, I just thought
— wow, this is cool, because I knew
there was a lot of music that I had
never heard and had no idea what
it was like, and that it would be a
really great adventure for us.