Audio file

29 - Deep Questions with Cal Newport.mp3

Transcript
I'm Kelly port and this is deep questions. The show where I answer queries from my readers about work,
technology and the deep web. So the exciting news kicking off today's episode of the podcast is that. We
have new questions. I sent out a survey to my e-mail list last week soliciting new questions for the show
and got back a lot of. Really good queries. This is the first time we have updated the question since July.
If you can believe it. In July, I sent out the last survey link to my e-mail list asking for questions. I got over
700 questions back then and they were so good. That I had been trying to get through the mall before I
solicited new queries, but there's just too many of them and it was taking too long and I think at this
point it's becoming increasingly strange for me to be tackling questions such as hey, Cal, what's your
advice for a deep 4th of July? It's just not timely anymore, so I solicit new questions. We've got a great
new batch. They're really smart. They also react to some degree to the stuff we've been talking about all
summer. So I think that really also adds to their quality. So I'm excited for that. If you want to contribute
questions, of course, sign up for my mailing list at calnewport.com. That is where I send out these
surveys. And I am not going to wait so long to do it next time because I do like the questions being
timely. So within six weeks or so, I'll probably solicit more. So sign up for that mailing list if you haven't
already done so. So we have a really good show today. We're going to tackle these brand new questions.
I'll do a Backstage pass segment so you can get a peek into my own struggles and attempts to live a
deeper life. We also will have, I think, this. Is also exciting. Our very first paid sponsor of the Deep
Questions Podcast, so we'll begin to that later as well before we start the show, though, let's do our
review of the week. This is where I go into iTunes and read a recent five star review. Of the podcast. So
this review comes from Jacob. And he says. I'm developing a sense of control over my life thanks to the
mindsets and practices Cal suggests. I'm enjoying life more and moving in a more productive direction.
I'm developing better discernment about how to focus my time and my concerns in life are deepening. I
am finally am gaining a sense that I'm making progress every day towards being able to fully provide. For
my family. He goes on a little bit more, but that gives you the idea, Jacob. I really appreciate. That
review. This is my favorite type of feedback. I like to hear is when people actually. Take control of their
lives. People who felt distracted and adrift. People that were looking just for quick entertainment. Or
quick outrage or quick fixes. Or someone to blame, or blaming themselves, or escaping or numbing
what's going on in their lives to hear from people like that, who say you know what, when I decide to go
for the deep life. You know, I decide to focus on the things that are important to me. Put a lot of energy
in there to filter out then the noise. That's not so important. To do the hard work on the things that
matter, so that my life has meaning when I hear those type of feedback, that's my favorite type of
feedback so. Jacob, I really appreciate that review. It gives me a nice jolt of motivation to keep going
here. All right. So that's the review of the week. Of course, I appreciate any ratings or reviews you leave
that does really help new people find the podcast, and it helps spread the word. All right, let's get
started this week. As always, we will kick things off with some work questions. AH, asks, what's your
daily routine? Well, ah, I'm normally up somewhere around 6:00 to 6:30. I will kick my day off with a
little bit of writing. In recent months, that writing has been this newsletter I've mentioned before on the
podcast I write a newsletter for my extended family, so my parents, my siblings, my aunt, my uncle's
relatively small bubble of extended family members about interesting or positive news on the pandemic.
I felt early on that the standard news outlets were too negative. Now to be clear, it's not that there is
not negative news. Obviously, this is a terrible thing that's happening, but as a I don't know, savvy
consumer of news, it became clear to me that there was some narrative shaping going on. So it felt like
the major newspapers and. News channels. Felt like their role was to help. Push behaviors in certain
directions, so they would be careful about what they chose to cover or not cover, or how they cover
things in such a way to try to push people's behavior towards what they thought the right intervention
should be. And I thought that it was not good for the mental health of me or my. Family to be exposed
consistently to a news take that was systematically or aggressively negative, leaving out the optimism
leaving out the positive, leaving out the encouragement. So I basically formed my own little newspaper
that has 20 readers. And so I do that for the 1st. 45 minutes or hour of the morning, that is, by the way,
going to be my news consumption for the entire day. So in writing that newsletter I see what's going on
in the pandemic, but I'll also see what's going on in the world in my region more generally, because I'm
looking at new sources. To write it, and now I'm done and I'm not going to look at news for the rest of
the day. I'm certainly not going to be watching a steady drip. Of news feeds and pseudo breaking news
throughout the day, that's it happens in the. Right around that time, typically my wife goes and
exercises, so I am hanging out with whatever subset of my many kids are awake. At that period, make
some breakfast, do the typical things you. Do in the morning. After she's done with her morning
exercise, I usually do a long walk. Typically I'll try to do some deep work. On this walk, treat it as a
productive meditation exercise. There's a segment of this walk that goes through Woods, which I really
like. There's a segment where I end up at a park. And there's some big shade trees there that I will some.
Get some reading under. I do track my reading. One of the metrics I track every day is how many
chapters I've read, so I try to get the first chapter out of the way. If I have time in the morning. And then
when I come back from the walk, it's time to time block plan my day. So I work with my wife. We figure
out what's going on, what's happening in my work, what's happening with our kids, what's happening
with home school, what's happening with doctor's appointments, whatever. Right we face today that we
have to face, and we make a time block. That does the best with whatever we have to deal with. Then I
execute the time block plan. There's no web surfing, there's no news. God forbid no social media
execute, execute, execute, shut down will be somewhere between 4:00 and 5:30, depending on what's
going on. I do my full shutdown routine so that I can actually move away from work. Then we are in full
household. Sort of personal life. Family mode. And we make a plan for whoever can do that. Evenings
can be dinner is going to be a walk where it's. At a movie night, are we going to the pool? You know,
that was one of the Silver Linings of. Minor silver lining? Of the pandemic is that our our pool? It's a big
deal. Our neighborhood pool. It's where the whole community goes. Typically closes on Labor Day
because. The high school students and the college students, I guess they have to go back to school and
they're a big part of the lifeguard workforce. Well, none of the schools are open around here, so they
have more free time. So we were able to actually extend the pool and have it be open all September and
it's heated. So you can even if it's cold outside. And so anyway. A minor silver lining, but one
nonetheless. And then we have our we have our evening, but I'm completely shut down from work. In
the evening, so we can just focus on household. Or personal initiatives. And that's a lot of fun. And then
usually I'll do my calisthenics style workout if I if I can do it right before dinner, that's optimal. Often I
don't have time. And then I'll do it. Maybe at 9:00 o'clock after we put in all the kids. To bed all. Right
then I'm in. I'm in bed by 9:30 or 10, and we repeat. So that's the whole routine. Ah, so again, the details
of what happens between, say, nine and five. That differs a lot depending on what's going on. But the
one thing that is consistent, which I want to emphasize here, is that there's no uncertainty during each
day because I have a time block plan that I've made with my wife that makes the most out of whatever
we're facing. And some days it's great. Lots of open time getting after it. Get a lot of work. Done some
days it's not so great. There are consequences to having, you know, schools closed, etc. But we get
through it with as much intention as possible. Jerelyn asks how do I ensure that my employees are doing
deep work effectively? From home. Well, Darrell, and you'll find a more extended version of my take on
this topic. In the article I wrote for The New Yorker earlier in the pandemic about remote work. But to
summarize my main take. It is very hard for people to effectively work from home if the work that
unfolds in your organization is haphazard or unstructured. If you use a hive mind style approach to work
where everyone just plugs in the slack. Or plugged in the e-mail and just rock and rolls like you got this.
What's going on here? Let's jump on a zoom call. Hey, whatever happened to that? Hey, can you look at
this thoughts question, Mark, you just sort of go back and forth ad? Hoc unstructured messaging as the
main way. You identify tasks, you assign tasks, you review tasks and you execute tasks. When everyone
goes remote, it's very difficult to keep people working effectively, so the solution is to actually fix the
way that you work. Add processes, add structure. Here is how we figure. Out what you should be
working on. Here's how we assign work. Here's how we review who's working on what. Here's how
many things. This is a scary question for a lot of bosses. They don't want to face this question. Here's
how we figure out. How many things? Should be on your plate at any one time. A limit on works in
progress to borrow a term from the Kanban. Project management methodology is something that scares
a lot of knowledge work bosses, because if there is a reasonable limit on work in progress. They might
not be able to sign you something else. They might not be able to pass something off to you with an e-
mail. They may not. Be able to do that obligation. Hot potato where it's like. Something new. Just. Came
in OK Jerelyn here. Can you? What do you think about this? Oh, it's out of my hands. Right now you
actually have to think, oh, do I really? Do we really want to do this or not enough people to? Do this.
What is our priorities? Anyways, what I'm trying to say here, darling, is that you add structure. You add
processes you can work from home almost as effectively as you can in an office, and in some cases more
effectively. So now is the time to start asking. What are the different processes that produce value or
support the production of value in our organization? A lot of times these will be implicit. And you can
start looking at each of these and making it explicit. Well, how do we actually want to do this? How do
we identify these opportunities? Where do we track information? Are we using shared task boards? Is
there a Google Docs somewhere? Do we have a stand up virtual meeting every morning where we
organize who's working on what? Do we limit people to work on one thing per block? Do we give people
a? Lot of freedom to work on a lot of things. How much we want to use e-mail, how much we want to
use Slack, you start figuring out these questions. How do we actually want work to unfold? And you can
come up with configurations. That can work quite well with remote work, but in their absence it's
chaotic. And as I talked about that New Yorker piece. Things don't tend to go well. Juno asks how would
you rate the difference between having A to do list open constantly? Versus having one but not visible.
Well, you know, as longtime listeners of the Deep Questions Podcast, no. I'm not a huge fan of To Do
List. And I think you should have A to do list in the sense of there should be places. Where you are
storing. The obligations on your plate but A to do list is not a tool to schedule or run a day. It's like a
filing cabinet. It is not a tool that tells you what you should be doing. And as longtime listeners know, I
am not a big fan of what you end up doing if you just have A to do list, which is what I call the list based
reactive method of time management in which you basically react to e-mail, react to slack and
occasionally look at a list and try to make progress on. Something from that list. That's the type of.
Productivity philosophy that a lot of people who just rely on A to do list actually deploy, and it's an
incredibly ineffective way of producing value with the human brain. I would recommend instead time
blocking. So what you're looking at is not some ambiguous list like. What am I in the mood to work on
right now? What do I have the energy to work on? It is a plan that takes every minute of your day and
gives it a job. And that's always visible. Because all you need to know is what one thing should I be doing
now? And according to my time block schedule, I'm working on X and so that's what I'm doing. No more
decision needs to be made. When that block is over, what am I supposed to be doing now? Oh, 30
minutes. Checking e-mail. That's what I'm doing. No other decisions about action need to be made. So
you know, that's my suggestion. No, you should not be looking at it To Do List. No, you should not just
be running your day off A to do list have a time block plan. Have that visible. Run your day off that plan.
If you get knocked off the plan, fix it next time you get a chance. Remember, the goal is not perfection,
but intention. That's the key to time block planning. You're going to get 2 to 3X more done. If you just
Spence with the list space reactive method and use this much more intentional method. As you
approach the structure in your day. Latinka asks what is the quickest way to get started with deep work.
Well, it's a really good question because sometimes on this podcast I talk about relatively sophisticated
setups that people have to both. And intensify deep work sessions and the whole thing can sometimes
be overwhelming, especially if you are new to the concept. A prioritizing undistracted application of
cognitive effort. So what I'm going to suggest Latinka is a keystone habit approach. A small number of
tractable habits that you get used to. That signal to yourself that you take deep work seriously. And
inject a steady dose of reasonable deep work into your schedule. If you do this for a while then you will
integrate this idea that I'm someone who can and does do deep work into your sense of professional
identity, from which you can then go on and do the. More sophisticated hacks. More sophisticated
rituals, more sophisticated strategies that we that we like to geek out on in this podcast. So what are the
keystone habits? Well, I'm going to give you 2 broad categories in which I want you to have one
Keystone habit that you start today. So the one broad category is actually dealing specifically with deep
work, a keystone habit that actually puts deep work regularly into your schedule. And I'll give you that
habit in a second. But the other broad category is going to be about general cognitive fitness. A change
you make in your life, even outside of deep work sessions that signals to yourself that you take seriously
your concentration and your ability to focus. So in each of those categories, let's have a keystone habit.
So let's start in the category of specifically prioritizing deep work. The easiest thing you can do is open
up your calendar, right? Now schedule some deep work sessions for the next three weeks. For the week
coming up, you might have a hard time scheduling sessions because it might already be pretty busy, rich
with meetings and calls the next week won't be as scheduled the week after. That will probably be even
less scheduled, so you can start with a few sessions this week. And then maybe up your ambition for the
two weeks that followed. Do about 90 minutes per session. If you're new to it, no more than one session
a. Day no more than two or three days a week with these sessions. Once they are on your calendar, you
need to treat. Them like a meeting or appointment. If someone else tries to schedule something. During
a time already set aside for deep work, you have to treat that as if you had already agreed to do a zoom
call during that time and someone else is trying to schedule you and say, well, no, I'm already busy from
9:00 to 10:30, but I'm available after that. Don't seed the ground. Treat it as important as a doctor's
office or meeting that's already on your calendar. Alright, that's a simple thing. But now you are going
to, at least on a regular. Basis come across blocks of time where you do nothing but focus on one thing.
Now again, it's going to be hard when you first do this if you're not practiced with deep work, you're
going to find that it's a cognitive strain and not a lock gets done. But you have to just get. In the habit of
having. Time set aside and having time protected, there's a lot of advanced tips that can help you then
get better. At the actual act of concentrating, but the first step is to actually have that time put aside.
Doing it on your calendar, protecting it like a meeting or appointment. That's the way to do it. That's the
Keystone habit. Now let's go to this other category, the category of. Taking your cognitive fitness
seriously. Creating a brain that's actually capable of doing sustained thought on complicated
professional work. And here my standard suggestion for the Keystone habit is to. Take your phone. And
removed from it any app or someone makes money from your time and attention. That's going to be all
social media that's going to be all online news. Now, what is this going to do? Well, this means outside
of work, outside of work, just in your life in general. The notion that this device in your hand is a default
source of distraction. Is going to diminish because there's really nothing that interesting on that phone
anymore. Your phone is going to be like my phone. There's nothing interesting. On my phone. By far the
most interesting thing on my phone is the MLB app. So if there's a Washington Nationals game going on,
OK, that is kind of interesting. I want to see what's happening. We'll see what happens with the score,
but that's the only interesting thing. On my phone, there's no social media, there's no games, there's no
online news app. I use it to send text messages to my family. I use it when I get lost to. Look up
directions. If I'm on a business trip, I'll put the Gmail app on it. If I need to, let's say, load up an e-mail
that has the details about the venue I'm going to or something that's about it. And now you find yourself
on a regular basis, just forced to be alone with you and your own thoughts. And this is all fantastic from
a cognitive fitness point of view because it breaks your mind from that notion that every time I'm bored,
I get a shiny treat. Every time I'm bored, I get a custom built distraction. As long as that's your reality and
life outside of work, when it comes time to do deep work, your mind will rebel. It will say this is boring.
Where's our shiny treat? So you got to break that connection. That simple Keystone habit will help you
get there. So these two things starting to schedule deep work on your calendar. Taking off any app in
which people make money from your time and attention from your phone, these two things will not by
themselves make. You a master deep worker. But they set the foundation for that transform. Now you
find yourself on a regular basis. In a deep work block, regardless of what happens in there, you hit those
blocks regularly. Now you find yourself on a regular basis. Unplugging from a constant stream of low
quality distraction. And being alone with your own thoughts and the world around you and thinking and
sustaining concentration and you start to think, huh? Maybe I'm the type of person who actually. It's
comfortable thinking it's comfortable not being distracted, and from this foundation you can build a a
strong metaphorical tower of concentration produced quality output. And now you're off to the races,
and now there's any number of things you can do and. And look, I could talk endlessly about how you
build on that foundation. I mean, if you go over to the world of cognitive fitness, you can start doing
interval training where you actually use a timer and try to concentrate as hard as you can for 20 minutes
without distraction. And once you're comfortable with that, you make it 30, and once you're
comfortable with that, you make it 40. I've talked about that before you begin to do a lot more reading,
especially long form or complicated material. That's like push-ups for your brain. You start doing
productive meditation. That's also like. Pushups for your brain over on the schedule. In front you start to
have rituals that surround your deep work blocks. You start to have very clear artifact production goals
for your blocks. OK, here is exactly what I'm trying to produce. Your mind knows what you're focusing
on. You get better at project selection. You get aggressive about location, maybe you start to set aside
separate locations that you only do deep work in. You don't have to have a, you know, outbuilding on
your ranch to be able to do this even if you're stuck at home working from home, it literally could be. I
go out to the yard to do this type of deep work under my gazebo or I go up to the attic to do this work in
the basement. Do that work, whatever, just to change the scenery, there's all sorts of advanced tips to
then build on this foundation. You have to start with the foundation. Something that signals to yourself
that you do deep work and you take your cognitive fitness seriously, and those are the two things I've
always recommended. So whenever I'm asked about this in interviews, whenever people say what's
your one piece of advice that you will give to our listeners? I always say I'm going to give you 2 and those
are the two I give deep work on the calendar. Distracting apps off your phone. So we'll tend to start
there. Do that successfully. Do that consistently. And once that foundation is built. You know, come on
back because we have any number of endlessly fiddly and geeky suggestions to offer for how to then
become a master concentrator. Ben asks what advice would you give for someone starting? A new job?
Well, Ben, I think if you are new to an industry or new to the world of work. I'm a big advocate. From
making this transition from dependability. To indispensability. And be a little bit more clear about it. You
start with dependability. And to me, that means two things. People know that if they give you
something to do or mention something to you or drop something on your plate, they know that it will
not get dropped. They trust that you are not going to lose or forget about that they can relieve
themselves of the cognitive burden. Yeah, I mentioned this to Ben. He's on it. The second piece of the
pinned ability. You deliver when you say you're going to. So if you say, OK, I will do this. I will get you
that report by Monday. You deliver the report by Monday. You say I'll take Me 2 weeks. You do it in two
weeks. If something comes up that makes that impossible, or if the work. Is more involved than you
expected. You clearly communicate and modify. Your delivery date. Never allow yourself to be in the
situation of. Yeah, I mean, I told him I would have it done Monday. I just couldn't get it done and I'm just
not going to talk about it and maybe I'll have it done a few days later. Dependability means dope. I
deliver when I say I'm going to deliver. And you can trust once something's on my plate, I am not. Going
to forget it. That is the foundation in almost any field that is the foundation. Of career success. If you are
dependable. People are going to like you. People are going to respect you. People are going to turn to
you. People are going to give you opportunities. You are in a stable situation. Once you have built that
foundation. You have that reputation of dependability. Now you can start moving towards
indispensability. This is where you begin to actually introduce. New ideas, new concepts, new products.
What have you that increases the value that your organization is able to produce. And it's here that
you're going to see that your rise within your industry is going to accelerate. You'll get new
opportunities, you'll get new responsibilities. Career Capital will begin to accrue at a very fast clip. And
then the word of warning here is that you have to go through the dependability phase before you can
really be successful with the indispensability phase. You need to prove yourself. You need to pay. Your
dues, you know, to do this for 10 years, but you actually have to establish that you are a dependable
employee. This is also where you learn your field is where you learn your. Industry it takes. Some time
takes some time to figure out how things actually work. It takes some time to get the necessary skills
that are specific to your job. To be able to identify the opportunities that you can help your organization
act on. So you come in out of the gate, you focus on dependability. Once you have that reputation. You
cautiously at first. But relentlessly. Begin to become increasingly indispensable. A small thing, slightly
larger thing, slightly larger thing. I'm telling you, Ben, there's nothing more powerful than someone that
people think is dependable and. Didn't see them. Just again and again, trying to introduce more value,
trying to improve things piece by piece, delivering what they say they're going to deliver. That is in most
jobs going to be a great. Recipe for success. All right, how do? You do that. Well, I was talking about this
in the recent habit tune up mini episode where I said the 1-2 punch here is discipline. And craft. So
discipline means. I got to get my arms around everything I have to do. I can't be dependable if I'm not
disciplined in my. Approach to work. I'm not just going to run a list based reactive. Productivity
philosophy. I'm not just going to be the person who responds first to emails and maybe tries to get here
early or just stay late and hope it all alchemize into value. No, I'm going to get my arms around what I
have to do. I'm going to run an adult. Productivity philosophy. I'm going to use capture, configure
control style methods. Nothing's going to get dropped. I'm going to move the pieces around of my
schedule like chess pieces on a chess board, and I'm going to time block plan my day so that I always
have intention. I'm going to be ruthlessly doing post mortems to try to understand where the problems
here to have too much my plate, not enough on my plate. Where am I slowing down? Where can I
improve? Things are going to be constantly evolving and optimizing my systems. I'm going to treat the
act of how I actually organize and execute my work. As an art form that I'm trying to master and not just
an aside. Right. It's discipline. Then to get towards indispensability, you add this craft mindset. What are
the skills that are important? How do I get better? How do I train deliberately like a professional chess
player like a professional musician like a professional athlete? How do I deliberately train myself? To
systematically get better and better at the things that are valuable, and then repeat and then repeat.
Discipline plus craft. That's what's going to get you to dependability. It's going to what's going to then let
you build on that dependability towards indispensability. Now, Ben, I don't know your age, but if you are
young, for example, then you are in a particular good situation that if you actually deploy. Discipline and
craft early in your career, you are going to have such a long term advantage over your peers, who many
of which and I have to say are probably a mired in passion thinking. Wait, is this my true passion? I don't
know if I like my job today. That boss is kind of mean. I don't know. Maybe I should switch careers. Yeah,
if I had a different job, then I'd be really happy. Or just really self focused like why can't I be in charge? I
had a great idea that we were going to start a reels account for the company and we were going to
engage young people with social media and can't I just be on social media all day? You know the boss.
The boss is like, no, you don't know anything yet. And I need you to do this type of work, which is more
boring, right? Your peers are mired in that. Trying to get too much autonomy before they've earned it or
focusing on passion. If you're coming in here with discipline so people like wow, that guy's. And then
you're focusing on crafts. So that pretty soon you also become indispensable. It's like accruing
compound interest by the time you're 30. Your career capital metaphorical wealth is going to be
significantly larger than those of your peers that are only then just starting trying to get their act
together. So good question, Ben. That is my advice, high level dependability indispensability, tactical
level, you do that with discipline plus craft. I want to take a quick break from the questions to tell you
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grammarly.com. Slash deep. So I think we have time for one more work question and we'll take one
from Lisa who asks. How do I? Get inspired to restart my research practice. As an academic and an
administrative role for the past two years, I have let the research and publishing side of my work slip. In
favor of the Unindexed administrative tasks of senior leadership in an academic institution. How do I get
inspired to restart my research practice? Well, Lisa, this question hits very close to home I am in.
Basically that exact same circumstance. As I've mentioned on several occasions on this podcast, I've
spent the last year in an administrative role within my department. The director of graduate studies and
look, I had a whole plan. For how I was going to execute this role. And still keep my research at the level
I wanted it to be at. But then the pandemic happened. And the pandemic created 2 problems that I
would say supercharged the administrative load of this position. The first problem is it just created a lot
of problems involving our graduate program, a lot of logistical problems that put a lot more work on the
plate of me and the department as a whole. There was all sorts of issues with students. Students who
are stuck overseas, students trying to get visas. Where students going to be required to be in person to
maintain their F1 visa, all sorts of trouble was going on that was causing requiring a lot of work was very
ambiguous. A lot of administrative complications. At the exact same time that this all happened, the
graduate program manager, which is the kind of the more permanent position that helps run the
graduate program, the institutional knowledge, you know how everything works. He left. So I had to
figure out a lot of things I didn't know how to do. I had to do the work of two different people while
having an unusual amount of work on my plate. As a result. This is not a great year for me. In terms of
research. I mean, it's probably one of my worst years I've ever had in terms of research output. I wrote a
few papers, but I did not really have time to write really good papers. And I haven't yet found a home
for the the small number of papers that I wrote. So Lisa, I am in a very similar situation as you. So my
position, this position that I have in in about two weeks, October 1st. So I have the wheels in motion
trying to figure out what's my solution to this exact issue of how am I going to restart. My research
productivity look, I am not happy when I'm not solving proofs when I'm not writing theoretical computer
science papers. It's the most intellectually stimulating thing I do. I've been doing it since I was 22. And
it's been weird not to be doing it at A at a high level for the last year. So I'm with you. I want to get back
to this. So here's a couple of things I'm doing. I don't know how many of these will apply to your
particular type of research. But maybe this will be useful. So one I am trying to create a new space to do
this work and this is entirely a psychological hack. I just want there to be a new place that I associate
only with doing research because I want to be able to jumpstart my mind into. Research mode. I think
it's going to be hard if I'm at my same desk where I've been answering emails about student visas for the
past six months. It's going to be hard to have that psychological switch, so I have a dedicated space, not
like a super nice space, but a dedicated space. This is where I'm going to be doing research. No e-mail
allowed. Now I don't know your situation, what your house looks like. If you have access to offices at
your university. For me, as my listeners know, I have this deep work HQ. Near my house and it has a few
different offices and I'm turning one of the big spaces into my area for deep work and I'm going to talk
more about this in the Backstage Pass segment that's coming up a little bit later in the show. But I'm
putting a note e-mail rule around it. I can do e-mail right next to it in the office right next to it or in the
studio where I record this podcast. But I just want there to be a space that is just for research. I'm
putting a giant whiteboard on the wall. And it's going to be a place I go and I sit and justice
psychologically. I don't know if this is going to. Work, but I think that might help. When I was doing my
quarterly plan, I have a new metric. The three hour rule. I want to try to hit 3. Hours of deep work most
days. I'm going to track it very clearly. I'm going to track it every day. I don't even care what it is. I just
want to get back into that habit. I want to be fighting for that time. Maybe have to wake up early, and
I'm gonna have to move some things around in the. I mean. I don't know how it's going. To work, I'm
going to count. I mean, just as a bit of a concession. I'm going to count my time. In the classroom as
deep work because it does take up a lot of time and it is really demanding. But basically I have this three
hour rule. That's why I want to get to starting October 1st, when I lose the administrative load from my
current administrative position and just have this background. Background beat work, work, work, work
work. I mean at first, who knows? I might not have great things to work on, but I don't care. I just want
that background beat, deep work, deep work, deep work, deep work, and I want to fight for it. Three,
I've been engaging as the summer ends and we enter back into the fall and my role as an administrator
is coming to an end. I've been re engaging with a lot of my long time. Incredibly talented collaborators.
And I'm letting the intellectual energy of these very smart collaborators, fellow professors I've worked
with for. A long time. Help infuse me with a similar energy. I spent a lot of this last year because I did not
really have time to collaborate with people. The small amount of research I did, I sort of did just on my
own or maybe just me and my student, and I want to get that energy back of. Working with the same
smart people I've been working with for years, trying to write ambitious, really good papers, really core
technical topics. So Lisa, that's my approach. I have a psychological hack, a brand new space just for
doing deep work. I have a metric shift. 3 hours a day. Let's make it. Happen whatever it requires. And I
have a strategic transformation of. Let me start talking with my really good collaborators on a regular
basis to feed off some of that intellectual energy. To be honest, I'm kind of embarrassed by this year. I
just think from a research production level, I mean, I get it. There was a pandemic and there was an
emergency, but I do not like having a bad year. I feel like I've been knocked down to the mat and now
I'm trying to get myself back off the mat. And start doing deep swings once again. And so that's my plan
and hopefully Lisa, you find a few useful ideas in that. All right, Speaking of transformations, I think
that's that's enough work. Questions for today. Let's move on now to questions about technology. Andy
asks, what do you think about speed reading? Well, Andy, I'm not a big believer in speed reading, I don't
think. It actually works. I'm aware of the techniques. I've seen some of the techniques, I just don't think
the comprehension is very high. Look, when you're reading something complicated. It is cognitively
demanding. I don't think there is a shortcut to actually doing the cognitive strain required to actually
build new networks, amplify the right connections, inhibit the wrong connections to actually cement
that concept in your brain. It has to require work. Just like there's no speed, weight lifting that allows
you to build muscles without actually feeling the strain of lifting something heavy, I think complex
thought requires that cognitive strain of actually struggling with the information coming to you, either
audibly or visually. That being said, I am a big believer in strategic skimming. So in strategic scheming,
you can actually get to especially a non fiction book quite fast. And what you do is you skim very fast,
like just hitting kind of key sentences. Until you get to a paragraph or section that seems very relevant to
what you're interested in and. Then you slow down. And you do the cognitive struggle, and you really try
to understand, you build new connections and you start swimming again. Now you're not taking a
shortcut here, right? What you're doing with strategic skimming is just not wasting effort trying to
understand the information. That's not that relevant, and and preserving those cognitive efforts for the
information that is relevant. So if you're a big nonfiction reader, especially if you know what type of
information you're trying to get out of a nonfiction book, so if you're doing research. For an article or
something like this. Strategic skimming can really speed you up, but again, it's not about consuming
information fast. It's about quickly getting to the information that you want to carefully. Ethan asks. Can
you be hyper distracted on social media, etcetera on some days? And deeply focused on other ones. Or
do you need to be consistent to build up decent cognitive fitness? Ethan, let's use physical health as a
useful analogy here. If you told me you're someone who takes your physical health very seriously. But
you know, you just have some days each week where you just. Go on a Bender. You just drink all day
and eat terribly. And you're like, yeah, you know, some days that's what I do. But other days I really I'm
really after it. I eat really healthy and exercise. I would say, look, you're not someone who takes your
physical health that seriously. Like what is it? What does it say about how you're prioritizing physical
health if you brutalize your body on a regular basis? I feel the same way about cognitive fitness. If you
have the cognitive equivalent of Bender days, let me. Just open up social media and let this
algorithmically optimize content. Just play with my emotions. Play it like a fiddle. Get me just slavishly or
addictively, just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Now I'm outraged. Now I'm laughing now. I'm distracted.
Now I'm whatever now. I'm jealous now I'm aspirational. Really. Just Netflix, Netflix, but not even
anything challenging on Netflix. We just watch a show up already watched it 100 times. Just let that
wash over me. It's a cognitive Bender. And it tells yourself signals to yourself you're someone who does
not take your cognitive fitness very seriously. So I think if you're going to build a deep life that actually
respects the bucket of contemplation, you gotta take your mind seriously. And you got to treat it with
respect. All the time. It doesn't mean that you're not going to. Occasionally, you know, spend an hour
going down a rabbit hole on something dumb or watching YouTube videos or watching a dumb series on
Netflix because you're just exhausted. And why not? Like it's fine, right? That's just like if you
occasionally have a drink or eat a hamburger doesn't mean that you're not serious about health. But
what you want to avoid is a. Much more dichotomous approach, where some days are just off the rails.
And other days you tried to rein it back in. And so I would be very minimalist with my technology habits,
by which I mean and I'm using the phrase here as introduced in my book digital minimalism, not to
minimize. But to be very intentional, key distinction, digital minimalism, and when I say to be minimalist
is not the same as saying minimize. Saying be very intentional so you know what technology you use,
why you're using it, and you have rules around it to optimize that value. So you have this nice intentional
relationship with your technology, the tools you use you use for particular reasons and particular ways,
and it gives you real value. Without blowing up into a source of distraction without blowing up into an
obstacle that gets in the way of you doing things that you care about more. You got a lot of high quality
leisure. You're reading hard books, you're talking to friends, you're hanging out with people in person.
You're doing things outside your honing craft. You want to just be doing that? That's what you do.
You're someone who takes your mind and your attention. Seriously, you want to feed it? Quality food
you want to keep it in shape by doing the right exercises and so no, you shouldn't have those hyper
distraction days now. There's also a functional argument for this. I'm going to talk about this in my book
deep work. If on some days. You just feed every whim. Every time I'm the least bit bored. Here's a
distraction. Every time a least bit. Bored. Here's a distraction. If you do that on some days, on the other
days, you're going to have a hard time focusing. Just like if we go back to our fitness analogy, if you have
Bender days on a regular basis. You can have a hard time getting through your workouts on the non
Bender days, right? It's going to come back to haunt you. So if your brain gets trained at like, yeah, I get
distraction every time I'm bored. Then when you're on. A concentration day. And say I really want to
lock down to get after it. Here your brand's gonna say Nah. Now, when we're bored, we get treats.
Remember, where's our treat? Where's our treat? Where's our treat? And nothing's going to get done.
So there's a functional reason here too. There's a consequence to pay for hyper distraction, but I like the
philosophical reason more. If you want to be someone deep, if you want to take your concentration
seriously, take your concentration seriously. Vivian asks what is your opinion on forum sites? Like Reddit
or Quora. Well, Vivian, I don't know a lot about those particular forum sites. I don't happen to use them,
but that doesn't tell you much because I basically use very little of the Internet for entertainment or
distraction. So I'm not a great. Source on that. My big recommendation would be regardless of what
we're talking about here. We're talking about an Internet tool that's meant for entertainment or
distraction. You just have to have some guard rails up. You have to approach it with some care. And for
me, that typically means two things. One, it doesn't happen on your phone. Once any of these sites gets
on your phone. It is going to try to become a default activity. It is there as a beacon to pull your
attention at the slightest hint of boredom. And even if you can resist that you are now burning cognitive
energy in that resistance. Take it off your phone. It's no longer a default activity. It's now something you
have to go to your laptop or your desktop and actually go seek out. There is friction and there is effort. I
think that's important. Two, this is a a pillar of my digital minimalism philosophy. If you think these
services support something you truly care about, identify what that is. It's a community that you like to
connect with. It's a subject matter that you find interesting or important, and you learn a lot about the
subject matter in a Reddit thread or whatever it is, right, identify what is the real value. I get out of this.
And once you've identified that value, you can optimize your usage around that value. If the main thing I
get out of this is X, then let me put some rules around how I use it so I can get a lot of that value and.
Then avoid a lot of the other cost. So for a lot of people, for tools like Reddit or tools like core, when
they go through this exercise. They end up treating these services more like a television show. A really
entertaining, intellectually stimulating interactive television show, but something that happens. For set
durations at set times. So let's say for example, there's some community on Reddit that you find really
important. Maybe it's a it's a discussion, you know, a group of people you share some characteristic
with, and they discuss this characteristic or their life or whatever it is, and you find some connection.
Since a belonging and comfort in this community interaction, all right, a great reason to use a tool is
something you really care about. This tool is helping you is tech doing what tech should do, amplifying
values. In this example though, if you know that's why I like Reddit. You can say well then how should I
optimize how I use this tool to get that value and avoid other costs? Then you say, OK, well, I only really
want to use it to follow this community, so I'm going to bookmark just that page. And of course I follow
cow's rule of don't put anything like this on your phone, because that's just a trap. Get rid of that. So I'm
only going to access it on my desktop. And well, let's see how often really is their new stuff on here. It's
not a super fast rate, so why don't I check in twice a week? Maybe this is something I do Friday night.
Maybe this is something I do Tuesday night. I do it after dinner. I spend an hour and I just go really deep
for that hour, giving my full attention to the most recent discussion. Talking to people sharing things I've
found, you know, being involved in that, and then I'm done. And then the TV show ends and it's not on
again. Until that next session. Now that's just an example, but it gives you a sense of how you can really
contrive your relationships with these services once you know why you're using. And so yes, something
like Reddit and Quora, if you have a good reason to use it, could have a very important footprint in your
life. But it should not just be this thing that's on your phone, and it's one more source of distraction
versus there with a long list of others. It's instead something you're using with intention to amplify,
something you really care about. And outside of that behavior, it has very little impact in your life. So
Vivian, I like that question not because I could give you specifics about those two particular sites, but
because I could talk more generally about the digital minimalist approach. To this type of technological
interaction. More general. I think that's a good group of technology questions. Let's go on and do a
backstage pass. The goal of this segment, of course, is to give you a look inside my own struggles. To live
a deep life. So one of the big things going on in my life right now is what I talked about in my answer to
Lisa's question earlier in this podcast. Which is my get off the mat initiative to get my academic research
program back and running after this last year of pandemic amplified administrative. And so that's pretty
important. The Deep Work HQ is going to play a big role in this. So last week, in Backstage Pass, I
mentioned that we had movers come and I moved all my books from my Home Office. Here to the Deep
work HQ. I also had some furniture moved here. So that's good progress towards getting my my
common space that I'm going to try to turn into my deep work. I now have a lot of stuff here to help
with that effort, but as I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast before or not, but I've really now
solidified my plan for exactly how I'm going to do that. So I got a lot of good suggestions from my
listeners and readers about how to actually transform this deep work cave into a place really conducive
for focus, including. I may have mentioned an actual suggestion to turn that room into an actual cave,
like with fake stalagmites and stalactites. I love the ingenuity there, but I did not go. With that idea. But
the idea that I have gone with and I think I may mention this before, is that I'm going to make the deep
work cave into a deep work library. I put down a very large rug that I brought from my study at home. A
very nice. Sort of mid century Afghan rug which which is, I don't know. It just seems conducive to
thinking for me. It's just it's a possession I really enjoy. That's covering the whole floor, and then I'm
going to buy from a library supply. A warehouse? I don't know. An actual library table. It's like a table
that you would actually put in a library with wooden library chairs and I'm going to put on that desk
those type of library lights that shine down on the wood and light it up and I can put that right in the
middle of the room. And then against the the long wall that's facing, I'm going to have my bookcases,
we're going to fill up with all of my books and on the Cato corner to that, there's a whole big. Open wall,
where I'm going to put some massive whiteboards for working on my proof. So there's a little window
over there. The only window in that room I'm going to put an armchair underneath. Tragically for for
very long time study hacks, readers know about my big leather chair as one of my prized possessions.
That chair does not fit through the door in the HQ, so it's actually a different, smaller leather armchair
that's going to play. That role. Then I have a mini fridge. I have this old bar cart that I'm going to bring
over. I'm not a big hard. Alcohol drinker it just seems aesthetically appropriate to have like a mid century
glass bar car. It just seems like something you would see in. I don't know the office of an Oxford Don in
the 19. And so I can bring that all in there. My idea is no e-mail, as I mentioned in that room. I go in
there and I sit down on a library desk. Big, big OpenTable with bright light shining straight down on it.
And I could sit there with my. Laptop and write. Or I can walk up to the whiteboard right next to it and
work on proofs and stare at that whiteboard while I then try to work in my notebooks on the table. If I
really need to read something, I can then just relocate to that armchair, grab a book from my library
shelf, and when it all gets too much, I go to that bar cart and go to town. Right? That's my plan. You
know, it's maybe a little bit over the top. I just felt like as I told Lisa that I needed an injection of
something novel and innovating. To try to get my research program back up and running again. Also, I
have a lot of writing to do. And so I want a really good space to do that writing, and I think a library I just
look, I've been an academic my entire life, my entire adult life. And so a library pushes those buttons. It
pushes those buttons for me meanwhile into studio. More superfluous equipment begins to arrive. I've
been working with an audio consultant. And now have a stack of stuff. I don't know how to use, but he is
going to help me. He's literally going to show me where to put stickers on the dial so I can just turn it
and have steps on an index card I press. But you know, hey, you may. And then in the weeks ahead here,
an upgrade in my audio quality. I'm also redoing from scratch the sound dampening in my room. I
basically look, I brought I mentioned I have camera equipment now. So now I have to actually care
what's what you can see behind me in the room. And so I'm moving sound. Tiles and relocating things.
And when I say I'm doing these things, what I mean is I'm thinking about doing these things but don't
actually have any time to do it. So it's just sort of like an aspiration, an aspiration in my head and a card
on my Trello board that never gets moved. But I have I have goals for it, so I'm slowly but surely getting
all the pieces together for a better sound and B video so you can actually see me answering some of
these questions and see me doing some videos. The main thing I'm missing right now is a powerful
enough computer to actually process that video concurrently with the audio, especially if I want to live
stream it. So I had to buy a new computer, but that's not going to get here for a few weeks. So anyways,
all these pieces are coming together. The video will probably debut with my plan or release in
November, so there's going to be well. I'm not really supposed to talk much about this yet, but we're
we're going to have some. Sort of pre-order thing in which I'm going to do a like a live session for people
who pre-ordered the books the the planner. We're going to get deep in. The time blocking and. And
there's a a short video I'm going to record that as soon as you pre-order the planner, you're going to.
Get this. Video that like shows you some insider looks at how to use it. But anyways, all that's going to
be filled with the new video setup, so that will probably. Be the earliest, but I really do want. As much as
possible you to be able to see me as well as hear me. I also want to. Be able to. Do videos on topics, just
that I'm interested in. Maybe not a podcast episode, but like, here's a six part thing on how to overhaul
this part of your life. And so that's all very exciting. It's just moving all very slow because I have no time.
So that's moving very slow, but that's what's gonna happen. And I think it's exciting. I do like this sort of
media piece of the sort of deep. Deep life plan, the sort of media empire slowly growing peace I think, is
important. I think you know, this message is important, especially now. And I can't necessarily just
produce a book every two years and think that's going to be enough to actually make some impact on
the conversation. So this is coming along. I'm excited about it. The final update is the Maker lab. We
haven't done anything. I had to take apart some desks to fit them through the door, and so I
reassembled those and have a good number of desks in the Maker lab. And we are just starting this
week, me and my older boys the the homeschooling, the bit of our homeschooling curriculum that takes
place in our Maker lab. Beginning this week, we're starting slow with small projects and learning small
skills, but I'm impatient. I'm excited for us to get to the point where I. Can buy 3D printers and laser
cutters and stuff. We don't really need, but it's going to. Be so much fun to. Play around with so that is
the update about my quest to lead a deep life. That's what's been happening in the deep work. HQ,
where of course everyone concentrates better than average. And with that in mind, let's move on to our
final category, which is questions as always about the deep life. Karen asks, how do you practice or how
can you practice digital minimalism in the COVID-19 season where physical interactions? Are limited.
Well, Karen, I. Want to point you back towards an interview I did for GQ magazine? At the end of March.
So right at the very beginning of the pandemic. I did an interview with GQ about digital minimalism and
the pandemic. And one of the big points I made in that piece. Is that digital minimalism is not about
minimizing. It's not about how much technology can you minimize out of your life, and the more you
minimize the better. That type of philosophy would be a weird philosophy for a computer scientist to
have. A weird philosophy for someone who makes their living on technology to have. What digital
minimalism is really about is intention. Deploying technology to amplify things you care about and
avoiding uses of technology that don't. And the argument I made in that GQ interview is that this
pandemic. Is absolutely making clear. The importance of digital minimalism. It is absolutely making clear.
The underlying dynamics that gave rise to that philosophy by actually just exaggerating them to such
extremes that it's impossible to avoid. So what do I mean by that? Well, most people have had a
dichotomous relationship with technology throughout this pandemic. On the one hand, they have
experienced deployments of technology that have greatly amplified things. They really care about. To
the point that if that technology did not exist, it would have really hurt the quality of their life. So during
that initial few months, for example. Where things were really uncertain. And we were in shelter in
place orders throughout most of this country. The ability to do zoom with family members. To do zoom
with friends. To keep up with people you know over ongoing tax threads where you could tell jokes or
release your anxieties. Incredibly important. With technology taking things that are important to us, in
this case connection with people we care about during tough times, and it was amplifying that value. If
this pandemic had happened 15 years ago, that would have been much rougher. At the same time, and
here's the other side of this dichotomy. A lot of people experienced. Unintentional technology used
during this period, making their life much worse. And in particular, I'm thinking about people who.
Became fixated on social media. With a steady drip of negative news that quickly shifted to OK, let's
blame people, let's scold and blame people. Maybe we could. Maybe it's these people's fault. This is
why. All this bad stuff is happening. And and and then they're they're they're angry and they're scared
and they're outraged. And then they're they're following Twitter feeds of, like, very alarmist people or or
maybe like, on the other end of the spectrum, the conspiratorial people who are trying to deny that
there's any problem going on at all. And it just brought people to a dark place. I think Cable News did the
same. For a lot of people. You were just plugged in to CNN for the last 6. Months. My God, I hope you
probably have finished digging out your bunker by now and in your mind. It's like the opening scene of
20 days later out there, 28 days out there. Is that the right title? I'm thinking that zombie movie where
the guy wakes up in the hospital and and everyone's been turned to a zombie from virus and they're
running around real fast and eating human flesh. Yeah, that basically seen in coverage of the current
moment. So my point being is. Some technologies, especially those that were used more casually
without real intention, just as a source of distraction or default, made people miserable. That's the
dichotomy that digital minimalism plays with. Tech can go both ways, so you've got to be on top of it.
What do I care about? What do I value? How can I deploy tech strategically to amplify those things? I'm
going to do that and everything else. Forget about it. I'm not interested. That's digital minimalism. I can't
think of another time in our history in which those dynamics have been made more clear. So Karen, this
is a period where the dynamics of digital minimalism are really playing out. You've got to be really
careful about how you deploy technology right now because it is going to either make your life much
better or it's gonna make your life miserable and you have a choice to amplify the former and. Avoid the
latter. Now let's get back to, I think what your actual question was. So that was an excuse for me to talk
about digital minimalism and the pandemic. But your actual question asked about physical interaction,
so I think when you said digital minimalism. In your question, what you really meant was, hey, if we
don't spend as. Much time on. Connection related technologies. Aren't we going to come lonely because
we also? Do not have as many opportunities to do physical interaction. And yeah, that's true. So if
you're going through the digital minimalism philosophy. During the pandemic, you would probably have
you spend more time on some of these digital connection technologies during the periods where you
have less options to do physical interaction because it's constantly doing this calculus. What matters to
me? What's the best way to get it? So in a normal time where you can see people and go to events and
be at people's houses, you might say that's really the way that I get the most value. So I'm going to
spend very little time on SMS or zoom. It would be weird. Third, in a normal time, if you were doing a lot
of zoom happy hours when you could be doing real happy hours with those people. So if you're doing
the digital minimalism calculus, you should have very naturally have shifted some of that attention to
high quality digital interaction alternatives. And as you continue this calculus, as things get safer, you will
probably shift. That energy back towards more physical interactions. But let me say more generally also
just about right now, do more physical interactions. Right now. Do them outside. There's, there's you.
Look, there's plenty of ways to do this. That is essentially 0 risk. It takes more effort than it might have
taken before, but spend the effort. Go out of your way. Say, how can I maximize? The amount of people
I'm able to actually see and interact with analogically in the real world, while keeping a baseline of
essentially 0 viral transmission. And once you're at a reasonable distance in a well ventilated outside
area, you are probably there at the 0 viral risk. So great how much interaction can I do in that context? I
don't think we're spending enough energy on this, I. Mean some people are. Some people are, but I
think some people are are stuck in a lockdown mentality. The lockdowns are over. The shelter and
places are over, but they're still living because of the scolding on social media in this. Environment of like
look if you're doing anything. Anything that might be positive for you or for your mental health. That's
not just like being home and being on zoom then, like somehow you were doing something morally
questionable. You're doing something morally bad, someone's going to see you. Post about you on
social media, I say you have to ignore that you're not in a lockdown. Unless you. I don't, I don't think
there's any. Maybe some parts of California know what's going on over there. But you're not in almost
certainly you're. Not in the. You need to see people and do it outside and do in a way that's safe. And
don't you know, as I always say, don't go down to the underground rave being held at the abandoned
warehouse down by the docks. But we crave. Physical interaction and by physical interaction I mean the
ability to actually see facial expressions. See body language to hear tone and voice, to actually have
mimesis in your body language and tonalities. All of this stuff really matters. All this stuff is an important
part of human interaction. You can get a lot of it through digital tools. You can't get all of it. So to the
degree you're able to do this safely, which I think is a very large degree for most people. You got to start
injecting that into your life, just like you should be injecting vitamin. You know D into your life by getting
some sunlight, just like you should be getting sleep just like you should be staying hydrated like all the
other things you do to try to stay healthy. This should be a big part of it. This should be a big part of it.
And so that's what I would say, Karen is. Inject yourself with vitamin interaction unless that's maybe not.

It's kind of.

A failed that might be a little bit of a failed metaphor there, but you know what I'm saying? Go see some
people's faces. Do it outside. But put in the effort, I think you're gonna find that it makes a big
difference. OK. DB asks. I am the sandwich generation taking care of kids and parents. This takes a lot of
time. Mental, physical and emotional energy. I want to engage in deep work as I have money making
projects to work on, but it seems I never have the time for it. How can I get that time? Well, Debbie, the
first thing I would say. We need to broaden our definition of deep. What you are doing in terms of caring
for your children and caring for your parents? That is deep effort. It is something that is important, that
produces value in your life and the life of your family, and it's something that is serviced by the
application of skill and unbroken concentration slash presence. So I would change my mindset. That's
the first thing I do. I change my mindset to say my God, I'm doing a ton of deep work. I'm taking care of
all these people and still have these other professional money making projects and all these things I'm
I'm somehow able to to give attention to all of them. I am doing a lot more deep work than most people
and for that you should applaud yourself. Now the question is OK, there's some ratios here that you
might want to tweak that the money making projects you might want to give more time to those if
possible, just because maybe the money is important, the financial stability is important. Alright, so how
do we do that? Well, you know, you're in a classic situation here of having a constrained schedule. For
very different reasons, I have a sort of similar situation, you know, because I I work 17 jobs. So I don't
have an abundance of flexible time. I have to be very careful about my time. But when I'm careful about
it, I am able to eke out more deep work on the things that matter. And So what? I'm just going to
suggest your DB is after you've made that mindset shift and after you've acknowledged it, man, you're
really doing a lot of deep work and you should be proud. Is that you go to at least a a weekly daily
planning discipline. So you look at your week and you have to move the blocks around on your week,
you know, hey, you know, Tuesday morning the kids are here and I'm not with my parents. And this is a
down time and there that's a good time to make some progress. And then Wednesday afternoon is
really busy. So don't try to do anything there you you move the chess pieces of your time. Around on the
board that contains all of your weekly obligations to get a sense of what's the best way to spread things
out, and then when you get to a particular day you do time block planning. And really, that's where you
get the big advantage. Time block planning is what allows people to get 2X more done than their peers.
When you give every minute of your day a job. Those minutes are able to produce much more work for
you. You do weekly planning. You do time block planning. You're going to be able to squeeze out some
more time blocks for the money, making professional endeavors that you want to give a little bit more
attention. The other thing I'm going to recommend though. The thing I'm going to recommend is that
you get very careful about your shutdown routine as well, because what you're doing is not just
intellectually draining, but the type of care taking depth that you're involved with is, as you mentioned.
Emotionally and physically draining as well. And so for someone in that situation, having a very clear
shutdown routine is going to be crucial from just a recouping cognitive energy perspective. So to really
have a clear my time block. Ends here. For my professional efforts. And I check all my inboxes and I look
at my weekly plan and I look at my calendar and I have a sketch of what I'm doing the next day I record
any of the metrics that are relevant. The metrics I check about my day, my keystone habits for both
work and life, and then I say embarrassingly, but with pride. Schedule shutdown complete. I can let that
go and then be fully present in the the activities that remain that night. Any caretaking you shall have to
do, and importantly in any. Rejuvenation relaxation time you have for that night, for high quality leisure
activities that in all of that you can be completely present. And minimize cognitive drag. So for someone
in your situation which is difficult, clear shutdowns on the stuff you can shut down. This is just like taking
care of your sleep. It's just like taking care. Of your diet. This is cognitive health and that's going. To play
a big role. The only other thing I would recommend here and I'm going well beyond your original
question, just to give you some advice more generally that I think might be useful in your situation is you
need to be very disciplined about the the task element of your productivity system of the capture of the
configuring, not just the controlling. Because again, this is all about cognitive health. Cognitive fitness.
You do not want to waste any cycles. You do not want to give yourselves any extra quanta of stress.
Keeping track of the fact just. In your head that. You need to call the plumber. Or that there's a form
that your kids need for school, or that you need to upgrade, you know, some piece of equipment that
broke in your house. You want to be completely disciplined and on top of that stuff, it's not fair that you
have to be more disciplined than other people, but you do because. You're trying to reduce the strain on
your brain. You're trying to increase your cognitive health. That will do it. So you want to be very
disciplined about your task. You want to be very disciplined. About your time. And be very disciplined
about shutdowns. This will help you get more time on your money making ventures. It will greatly
reduce the stress and mental strain of what you have to do. And that's basically the best I can offer. But
let's go back to the very beginning. You were doing a ton of deep work. So basically, the way I see this is.
Like you are one of these deep work superstars that's trying to just optimize around the margins. That's
the way I think you should think about what you're doing. So thanks for that question, DB. I think we
have time for one more question. One more chance to forget my use of the phrase injecting vitamin
interaction. Still ashamed about? And so to cleanse that from our brain, let's turn our attention to
Raphael, who asks the following. I rationally agree with arguments for depth. However, when it comes
to implement. When it comes time to implement deep habits, sometimes I lack motivation to do so. It
seems that my previous habits are too strong. How do I overcome this? Well, Raphael. We often
underestimate the difficulties of lifestyle transformation. Especially if we're young and we haven't tried
a bunch of them yet, what happens is we get fired up. About some sort of new lifestyle we see we come
up with some assorted tips that seem. Tractable, but kind of fun. We try them, we lose interest. It would
go back to the way things were. If you really want to do lasting lifestyle change, it's actually non trivial
and you actually have to think through best practices. What's the way that people have actually
successfully made this transformation before? That's the advice I'll. Give you now. About what I've
observed about what really works, if you want to switch. Over to a deeper lifestyle. And this will overlap
some stuff I've talked about on this podcast before, but I think it's very important and I think it's worth
coming back to. Again and again. So first, let's start with the psychological before we get to the strategic.
From a psychological perspective. You got to get actually committed and fired up about. The deep life.
You have to feel it in your bones. This is the type of way I want to live. I am tired of this just constantly
looking at screens distracted. Emotionally and cognitively manipulated by these statistical algorithms,
running these giant social media platforms on here late at night, doing emojis, not feeling healthy,
feeling run down, feeling like I have no resilience. Like if something goes wrong, I don't even know how
to deal with it, so maybe I drink too much or I'm I'm eating really unhealthily to try to find some sort of
chemical relief. Feeling adrift in work? Feeling vulnerable. Feeling angry, always looking for people to get
mad at, always feeling terrified. All these type of things. That can afflict a shallow life, especially in
periods of difficulty like we're in right now. You have to really feel. I'm done with that. There's nothing I
feel more sure about than I want a life. Where I am in? Charge of my time and attention and I am aiming
it towards things that are worthwhile. That I am building a resilient life of meaning and satisfaction. By
doing work that matters in a way I'm proud of. Being invaluable to my community, friends, family,
people who live around me, serving them, being a leader, someone they look up to, someone who is
pushing my intellectual capacities, exposing myself to interesting ideas, challenging my assumptions.
Grasping for emersons. Intellectual self-reliance that he really said was at the core of the American
character. From a contemplative standpoint that I'm connected to ancient wisdom, I'm connected to the
mystery of the universe I'm connected to. All of these elements add up to making a life of meaning
satisfaction. Now I want you to feel that deeply that yes, enough is enough. That's what I want. That is
more important to me. Then my follower account on Twitter getting a bunch of likes or hearts for an
Instagram post. It's more important to me. How do you get fired up about that? Follow people who live
a deep life. Listen to their podcasts, listen to podcasts like this, read biographies. Read books by people
who live deeply, watch documentaries that expose you to the deep life. Just wash yourself in this until
you build up a psychological confidence that this is what I want. Psychological foundation there. Next
comes the strategy. This is the bit I've talked about before, so I'll do it quickly, but I think it's important
this is what I tell people who are starting from scratch to leave the shallows and get somewhere deep a
you identify the buckets in your life that are important to you. The buckets that you want to be deeper
in. This can differ from person to person, but I've often used Buffett buckets like craft. Under which I
capture professional endeavors. Under which I capture sort of physical fitness and health. Under which I
capture connection and sacrifice and leadership among the people in your life. I put contemplation
under here. Your philosophical, political, ethical beliefs. Where do they come from? Why do you believe
in them? How do you integrate them into your life? If they're spiritual beliefs in there as well, those are
all connected. All of this is important, so you find the buckets that are important to you, and then for
each of these buckets, what I suggest is that you begin the very first thing you try to do. Your initiation
into the deep life. Is to identify a keystone habit for each of these buckets. Something that you do every
day. That's not trivial. But it's tractable enough that you can actually get it done, so it's not. Look at a
book on my shelf every day. That's trivial. But it's not read a whole book every day. Because that's not
tractable most days, but is something in between, like read one chapter a day. It's hard. You have to
make some sacrifices. You might have to move things around. You might have to. Stay up late some days
to hit it, but it's tractable. Figure out a keystone habit for each of these buckets that you identified.
Track every day in a notebook. Did you do it or not? You know you're going to be tracking this, so you're
going to feel motivated to get it done. You also have a record of how well it's going. It may take you a
couple months to get these right. Some habits might be too trivial. More likely you have a couple habits
aren't quite tractable, so you want you want to shift and transform until you have a good set of habits
that you consistently do as a foundational rhythm in your life. And you signal to yourself because of
these habits that in each of these buckets that are important, I am willing to do non necessary.
Intentional activity to support those buckets. Once you have this foundation of Keystone habits, rock
and rolling, you trust it. It's key to your daily routine. Then you rotate through those buckets 1 by 1,
spend one to two months with each bucket. And go through a transformation of that aspect of your life
during that dedicated time. Where you say now it's time to make some big changes to engage with this
more deeply. You know, during the craft bucket weeks, for example. You get your capture control,
configure productivity system up and running. You begin to train your mind for depth. You're doing
productive meditation, you're doing interval training, you get a scheduling philosophy for deep work.
You apply some essentialism and take a lot of things off your plate, and whatever you need to do, right.
And then when you're done spending a couple of months, maybe one month, maybe six weeks, maybe
two months on craft, you move to the next bucket. You do that, you've gone through all but. All the
while, you keep your background beat to the keystone habits. In each bucket. You're done with that.
Your life is going to be a lot deeper. Take a breather. Then you rotate through again, take a breather,
you rotate through again. I'm telling you, Rafael, you do this, you're going to begin honing in on a life
that is significantly deeper and therefore significantly more meaningful and significantly more satisfying
than probably what's going on now. So that's my game plan. Get your psychology in order. You got to
live and breathe examples of depth until you are convinced there is nothing else you. Are going to
tolerate. Then deploy my strategy of the Keystone Foundation followed by bucket rotations. It has
worked for a lot of people. I think it's a great way to. And successfully. Increase the amount of depth.
That you experienced in your life. All right, that's a good question. Rachel, go for it. The deep life, I really
do believe is the best type of life there is. And the sooner you get started, the sooner. You can reap
those rewards.

All right.

So that is all the time we have for today's episode. Thank you to everyone who submitted their
questions. If you want to submit your own questions for the podcast, sign up for my e-mail list at
calnewport.com. If you. Support the podcast A rating or review goes a long way. Thank you. Also to our
sponsor Grammarly, I will be back later this week with the habit tune up mini episode. And until then, as
always. Stay deep.