Iv*_Neda_210812_LLNP

Total length of interview: 42:38 min

Interviewer: Elke (E); Jeremy (J) and Nicki (N) joining the conversation at the end
Location: CIT Reid (conference room, next to cafeteria)
_____________________________________________________________________

(0:00-0:30 min not transcribed; pre-introduction)

1 E we are very grateful

2 N I would like to speak with you
3 E so we are very happy that you have time for us we are very happy and
we thank you for that
4 E so I had a look at your questionnaire from June I think it was and you
were just saying that your first language is actually Turkish
5 N yes
6 E yes so it’s not Farsi it’s Turkish
7 N mm first language? oh my mother tongue is Turkish but the first
language of Iranian people is Farsi Persian
8 E okay and English is your third language?
9 N yes because I speak Farsi as well as Turkish
10 E I studied in Persian in Farsi I mean
11 J that’s fine
12 E how long oh you say you have been learning English now for three and
a half years
13 N yes
14 E okay now how good do you think your English is?
15 N (1.0) ah
16 E just you know what do you think?
17 N not just perfect
18 E not quite okay
19 N when you learn English when you look back at the three and a half
years that you have learned English have you had good exp- was it a good
experience to learn English or was it a somewhat bad experience? what do
you think overall
20 N I always loved learn learning English umm (1.0) at first at the
beginning it was very difficult (1:0) yes I was scared
21 E you were scared
22 N to go out and speak with people
23 E yes mm
24 N I didn’t take calls yeah because I couldn’t see their mouth
25 E to make the telephone is very difficult so did you start learning English
in Australia? when you came to Australia did you have a little English or
nothing?
26 N mm I studied mm at university
27 E okay
28 N and we have some subjects I mean some units in English but erm there
is no conversation because we don’t speak with
29 E right
30 N anybody
31 E yes

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32 N we just read and write learn how to write and read we don’t speak and
when I arrived um in Australia to Australia um I couldn’t answer people in
airport when they were asking ‘where are you going’? things like this very
easy but mm I wasn’t ready yet
33 E ready yet okay so that was not a good experience do you remember
also in these three and a half years something that was really good?
something positive
34 N in my experience
35 E in your experience about learning English like if you are saying I was
nervous that was scary that was a bad experience but on the other side is
there anything that you thought was really good if not don’t worry but do
you have anything special
36 N yes (1.0) communicating with people here
37 E ahem ahem
38 N yeah with my neighbours with my um children’s um friends
39 E you like that?
40 N yes
41 E that’s important okay let’s now talk a little bit about your kind of
attitudes towards the English language okay? like what are your thoughts
about English as a language what are your attitudes for example what does
English mean to you? (2.0) what does it mean?
42 N English um in can’t into I mean within er sorry just a minute
43 E take your time
44 N (3:0) English in a country which English is the first language is
everything I think work communicating life
45 E yeah
46 N we should learn English
47 E ahem so if I ask you what does English mean? you say English means
everything
48 N everything
49 E another interesting thing that you say is English is everything English
is life
50 N yes
51 E yeah
52 N because um when I want to go to work I need it when I want to go er
shopping I need it when I communicate when I make a friend er everything
53 E so when you think of English and you think like- if you had a picture
in your mind an image in your mind what would that picture show for
English?
54 N um (2.0)
55 E that’s probably a difficult question but you know what I mean? If you
had a picture in your mind about English what is that picture?
56 N mm English(1.0)
57 E life everything?
58 N yes (laughs) yes I love education
59 E aha
60 N mm I’m going to actually this is my ambition I want to go to
university and study masters
61 E okay so maybe we’ll meet again
62 N so (clears throat) I hope so (1.0) so I need it

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63 E okay thank you (2.0) so if you think once you when I asked you how
do you think your English is you said not quite perfect but on the day when
it’s perfect when you are a really successful user speaker of English what
will that mean for you?
64 N I thinks it takes long time
65 E yes
66 N to achieve
67 E but on that day what will you think? I think it’s not that far away
68 N I think (laughs) I think so
69 E yeah
70 N I would be I will be very happy yes
71 E about the success
72 N very happy yes
73 E last question about this topic of your attitudes to English sometimes
people say ‘I like English’
74 N yeah
75 E do you agree with that? do you like English?
76 N I love English
77 E you love English why is that?
78 N because mm English (1.0) English is international language you can go
anywhere the world yeah you can mm live there
79 E so it opens
80 N yeah
81 E doors
82 N yeah
83 E okay let’s now talk a little bit about how you feel towards speakers of
English we have talked about the language now we will talk about the
people the people who speak English the people here in Australia who
speak many of whom speak English so
84 N natives? or?
85 E yeah native speakers or maybe (1.0) speakers who are very proficient?
86 N yeah
87 E see I’m not a native
88 N well but you are proficient
89 E I hope yeah (2.0) so let’s say maybe competent speaker proficient
speaker so what makes a competent speaker competent? what do you think
that person
90 N um
91 E has to be
92 N can you ask it clearly?
93 E yes so we look at speakers of English in Australia who are proficient
94 N yeah
95 E how do you know that someone is competent?
96 N okay fluency
97 E fluency okay ahem
98 N (unclear word) speaking they are confident they look at you (laughs) in
your eyes
99 E yes and not under the table okay
100 N they are calm

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101 E do you have people in your (1.0) context in your environment in your
family and friends who for you are a model like what you want to be you
want to be as confident as fluent as calm looking into people’s eyes do you
have someone that you admire you have like a model?
102 N err (2.0)
103 E maybe someone in the family or a teacher or maybe another person
from Iran and you think this person was successful I want to be
104 N yeah
105 E like that?
106 N I have some family in Australia
107 E ahem?
108 N but oh they speak English well but my husband
109 E ahem?
110 N is the one
111 E I talked with?
112 N yes he speaks very well because he’s from Iran but he lived in England
113 E okay
114 N for a long time
115 E for a long time
116 N yes
117 E so this is where he learned it
118 N yes
119 E okay so this is like what you would like to achieve?
120 N yes I don’t like his accent
121 E all right
122 N I mean his accent is good but his accent is not like native speaker of
course but he’s well educated he’s a professor
123 E ahem
124 N in physics
125 E okay so he’s a very proficient competent user
126 N yes
127 E okay
128 N he was my teacher
129 E ahh that’s how you met yes that happens happens very often but did
you study physics?
130 N yes
131 E okay right now the day you will be a competent speaker proficient
calm all that what will the people around you think about you like your
husband maybe your children? on that day in the future
132 N okay
133 E where you will be perfect what will the people around you think?
134 N (3:0) I think um that they um I can be more useful I can help them I
can help my family maybe I can earn money I can work
135 E so they will probably like that yeah cause you can help them that’s a
good a good reason
136 N good for my children it’s good for my children
137 E the children probably speak
138 N yeah
139 E English
140 N yeah they are like Australian

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141 E now you were saying before that learning English is like everything
okay so would you think that all migrants who come to this country that it
is important for them to learn English?
142 N yes
143 E yes for everybody and for yourself you have already said that
144 N yes
145 E it’s your future it’s your life it’s everything do you actually have
specific goals like you mentioned you mentioned that you might want to
study is that your goal?
146 N yes yeah I want to study
147 E mm
N in the subject that is um related to physics but not as erm erm as
difficult as difficult as physics
148 E as physics?
149 N because that was very hard
150 E what will that be?
151 N um GIS geographic information system
152 E oh right okay interesting
153 N it is with high demand in Australia
154 E and I think it has a lot- we need that in the future
155 N yeah I love geoscience
156 E okay
157 N (laughs) yeah
158 E so I guess the day you know English well then you can do these things
159 N yes
160 E okay let’s move on (1.0) so you were saying before that is important
for everybody for migrants to learn English do you also think it’s really
necessary for them to do that?
161 N yes
162 E so it’s not only important and desirable but necessary
163 N for returning to the life here
164 E yes
165 N yeah
166 E okay have people around you did they have to push you to learn
English?
167 N no not at all
168 E it was your
169 N yes
170 E okay the people around you like your husband maybe your girls but
also maybe you mentioned family here in Australia what what do they
think about you learning English? do they think it’s good or?
171 N (1:0) yes
172 E yes? do they-
173 N otherwise um um (1.0) I mean (1.0) I will need my husband (laughs)
my family for everything
174 E yes yes
175 N for making making for example for making an appointment I need
them it’s not good I want to be um independent
176 E yes
177 N yes

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178 E and your family likes that too
179 N yes
180 E and do they like- you say they don’t push you they don’t have to push
you because you want it do they encourage you? like maybe sometimes
when you say like at the beginning you said it was hard you couldn’t reply
you were probably frustrated probably a bit sad sometimes angry
181 N nervous (laughs)
182 E nervous what would your family say like would they try to comfort
you? would they try to encourage you? or what was their reaction when you
had these difficult moments?
183 N actually my husband was a little bit (1.0) unhappy that I don’t know
um English
184 E (word unclear) okay
185 N yes he was saying that you should- you had to you had to learn before
186 E you came?
187 N yeah before you came I didn’t have um opportunity to speak
188 E to learn
189 N to speak yeah to speak
190 E okay and did he understand that?
191 N yes (laughs) he had to
192 E he had to
193 N but because because um he had to do everything for me
194 E ahem
195 N yes he was busier than that
196 E okay so he wants you to
197 N yeah
198 E to be independent okay at this moment in time today if you look at
your English ability what is the thing that worries you the most that causes
you the most problems or
199 N now?
200 E now or are you overall happy is it something in your English that
201 N (laughs) speaking on the phone yes I should push myself to think
before speak
202 E mm
203 N because when you are speaking your first language you don’t have to
think too much you just say what you er think
204 E yes at the same time
205 N yeah but when it’s not your first language you should think and you
should arrange (1.0) um think
206 E like you don’t have the time now you don’t have time
207 N yes yeah and I speak slowly and yeah
208 E but well I am sure it becomes automatic you know
209 N yeah
210 E quick
211 N thanks
212 E be a little bit quicker (1.0) good okay (1.0) now you’ve already
mentioned English is important for your future okay so you mentioned
work right what else study?
213 N study
214 E study maybe first work?

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215 N be confident
216 E be confident
217 N yes be confident (1.0) and making friends
218 E making friends
219 N communication is important for me yes
220 E how about your girls? you said that it would be important also for your
children
221 N yes
222 E that you speak English well why do you think so
223 N mm because (1.0) when I can’t speak English I can’t help them I can’t-
they will be I think they will be shy when they show me to their friends
when mm they want to go with me to somewhere
224 E yes
225 N yeah I can’t help them in their education their homeworks
226 E it’s all in English
227 N yeah
228 E but let’s now talk a little bit about your first culture Persian culture
Farsi maybe Turkish so your children speak both languages?
229 N yes
230 E that’s nice
231 N I’m trying to teach um Turkish that’s good
232 E okay and how about Farsi?
233 N they speak
234 E they speak Farsi
235 N yeah
236 E so let’s talk about the two cultures the English Australian so in general
when you think about the culture in Australia customs the way people do
things here how do you feel about Australia the culture the way people do
things? do you feel good? not sure? a bit strange? what’s your overall
feeling about Australia and Australia’s customs and traditions?
237 N I haven’t been anywhere umm before I came to Australia
238 E mm
239 N but I think Australia is a very good country
240 E what makes it good?
241 N mm (1.0) the first thing I think it’s multicultural
242 E you like it
243 N yeah but I’ve heard in Europe um (1.0) the life (1.0) um would be
244 E more difficult
245 N difficult (3:0) the other thing is um (2:0) they are friendly Australians
are friendly
246 E yeah
247 N the government I think is good
248 E okay okay is there anything I mean your husband is from your first
culture the children are going to school but is there anything in terms of
Australian customs that you actually already observe? do you do things that
are Australian? that are not that you would not have done if you were in
Iran?
249 N okay um
250 E do you do things Australian like I don’t know have a barbeque or you
know?

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251 N (laughs) you mean what was the thing I don’t like
252 E the question is we can also talk about this things you do not like but
maybe first about things you like are there things customs traditions here in
Australia that you have adopted? that you use now
253 N mm
254 E because you like them so much?
255 N (2:0) um (1.0) I don’t have any problem with them
256 E ahem
257 N the manners and culture in Australia
258 E ahem that’s good
259 N I mean I haven’t been forced to do anything it’s really good I was
myself and I did whatever I want
260 E that’s good
261 N yes I went to the mosque and yeah (4:0) I prayed I
262 E so you continued to-
263 N was fasting
264 E yes
265 N I was wearing hijab
266 E ahem
267 N yeah
268 E and you can do it
269 N mm just sometimes I can feel
270 E what can you feel
271 N some umm some feelings how people they they look us like strangers
but I think they don’t know us when I speak to them when I smile at them
they they are happy and
272 E happy yeah
273 N they start to speak with me
274 E why do you think they look?
275 N (words unclear) (laughs)
276 E are they curious?
277 N um (1.0) why?
278 E what do you think
279 N mm because we are minority
280 E ahem
281 N in this country
282 E so they look maybe they look because you are a beautiful woman
283 N (laughs)
284 E so you were just saying that you continue doing things that are very
important for you like your religion you go to the mosque you pray you do
Ramadan so I understand that you keep that you’re not losing anything of
that are you?
285 N no
286 E no you just keep it do you take something from the Australian culture?
that you take
287 N mm
288 E in addition to
289 N ahh because I don’t have too much friends Australian friends here
maybe in the future

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290 E maybe in the future is there anything that you really really like about
Australia how we do things here like things that you observe and think I
want to do this too like
291 N yes
292 E like Australians like outdoor sports and things maybe one day you
want to do it okay so when you look at Australian culture and your own
culture
293 N mm
294 E do you think they go together well?
295 N I don’t think so (laughs)
296 E you do not think so where are the clashes where are differences
297 N um (2:0) now I remember the only thing um the only thing um um that
it’s difficult for a family here is getting um Halal foods
298 E ahh yes okay
299 N it’s difficult it makes the um situation more difficult for me and my
children and they say at this moment they go to an Australian school public
school
300 E ahem
301 N and in some events they can’t eat
302 E right
303 N for example sausage sizzles
304 E yeah
305 N barbeque and they are complaining about that
306 E right I see
307 N mm
308 E so they can’t eat
309 N always have a look at the ingredients
310 E yes of course
311 N some of them were not Halal
312 E (words unclear) so the typical very very typical Australian sausage
sizzle is a bit difficult
313 N yes mm
314 E it’s not healthy anyway it’s not healthy okay (1.0) other difficult
situations?
315 N um no I don’t think so
316 E so if you think about yourself now just yourself how would you
describe yourself your identity cause you actually have Turkish Farsi you
speak English do you have Australian residency or
317 N not yet
318 E not yet
319 N in I think few months
320 E few months okay so are you (1.0) what are you when someone says
‘what are you’?
321 N okay (3:0) I would say I am a Nuslim
322 E ahem
323 N Iranian ah Turkish woman
324 E mm
325 N (laughs)
326 E a Nuslim Iranian Turkish woman okay
327 N mm my religion is my (words unclear)

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328 E very interesting do you think you’re also becoming a little bit
Australian? over time or maybe not yet?
329 N okay
330 E what do you think?
331 N I think after getting citizenship I will be Australian as well (laughs)
332 E well you would be because you have a passport but how about you
know your feelings what do you think? what will it be like because there’s
always you know your identity as a Muslim
333 N I haven’t ever thought about it
334 E how do you see yourself in ten years time?
335 N yes
336 E a bit of everything?
337 N (1:0)
338 E we have to talk again in ten years
339 N yes (laughs)
340 E that would be actually interesting to see how things have developed
let’s maybe go back to the language so when you use your language so the
kids you speak Turkish or Farsi? your children
341 N more Persian
342 E more Persian do you use Persian all the time for them?
343 N yes because my husband um speaks Persian he is Persian
344 E and when you go out? when you go shopping and the surrounding is
English do you continue speaking Persian with them?
345 N yes Persian
346 E you don’t have you don’t think that you should switch to English
because other people speak English
347 N no I don’t
348 E okay so that’s fine and do you sometimes speak English with them at
all?
349 N yes
350 E yes
351 N yes because I think it’s good for me
352 E all right
353 N because me and my husband try to speak Persian at home because
otherwise they will lose
354 E but sometimes you might speak English with them
355 N yes sometimes
356 E and for you just you now alone whether you speak with your children
your husband colleagues here students what does it feel like to speak
English versus speaking Persian? or maybe Turkish?
357 N what does it?
358 E what does it feel for you? how do you feel when you speak English?
how do you feel when you speak
359 N more difficult
360 E more difficult
361 N yeah sometimes I want to say something from my heart (laughs) my
feelings I can’t express well
362 E I understand that it’s very hard to express feelings in another language
363 N mm when you’re angry (laughs) when you’re happy yeah
364 E very hard yeah I also have a problem with jokes I am not good at

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365 N jokes?
366 E I am not good at telling jokes in English
367 N (laughs)
368 E is there anything else that you would like to mention about your
learning English here in Australia that is important that we haven’t
mentioned or that you would really really like to emphasise as important?
369 N um no
370 E do you think you have said the most important have said everything
371 N I don’t remember (laughs)
372 E it was very interesting what you told us I think are there any questions
that maybe you have now that
373 N mm
374 E I’ve asked the questions that I wanted to ask but we still have like five
minutes so if you have any questions
375 J I’m very interested in (1.5) how you manage your cultures so you have
Turkish and Iranian which are different of course
376 N yes
377 J and is the Turkish (1.5) Sunni or Shia
378 N Shia
379 J ah okay that’s different so well they are the same as Iranian
380 N yes
381 J and then there’s the Australian so in your future do you think you will
live happily with two cultures? Australian and Turkish/Iranian? do you
think they go together?
382 N (2:00) um (4:0) they can go well together
383 E they can or they can’t?
384 N they can
385 E they can
386 J yes
387 N yeah
388 E they can
389 N yes (2:0) mm you mean about religion?
390 J you already said there are differences that that it’s difficult you know
as you said people look at you strangely
391 N because of I think because of the religion
392 J yeah that’s true
393 N in Australia
394 J there’s a political situation
395 N yeah political yeah I mean
396 J in yourself in the future do you think you will be comfortable with two
cultures side by side
397 N (1:0) um (1.0) can I say something?
398 E yes please
399 N um we don’t like our government that’s why we are here
400 J yes mm
401 N yes
402 E sure
403 N sometimes people think because I’m from Iran and I’m wearing hijab
404 E ahem
405 N um I don’t like them no yeah me and my husband (1.0) yeah

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 406 E yes of course
407 N yes and um (1.5) yes but I’m talking about Islam
408 E yes
409 N think um everything is against Islam nowadays
410 E mm
411 N (1:0) yeah
412 J mm
413 N of course there are some mm bad Moslems in the world and they ruin
things (1.0) um (1.0) like our government
414 E ahem
415 N (1.5) but um I like Islam
416 E ahem
417 E (1:5) yeah (1:5)
418 J so you can like Islam and you can like Australia together?
419 N yes
420 J okay (words unclear)
421 N yeah yeah
422 J yeah
423 N because we have to respect all people
424 E mm
425 N to their thinking I respect Australian culture Australian thinking
426 E do you think you get the same respect? do you think the Australians
show you the same respect overall?
427 N yes
428 E first first they look a bit first they look funny me but then it’s okay?
429 N yes
430 E that’s good so you think you can have this and you live
431 N yeah
432 E in both cultures (2.0)
433 N mm
434 E any other questions Nicki?
435 N no it’s been it’s lovely listening to your story
436 N thank you
437 J we should have begun by saying happy Eid ul-Fitr
438 N thanks (laughs)

36:25-42:38 min: general discussion, not transcribed

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