Five Reasons Why I Wrote This Book

1) I want to replicate the positive impact of my first book. I find

writing to be hard work. I am not naturally gifted at writing. I am a
horrible speller. I frequently use the wrong words. However, after
seeing the tremendous success of my first book One Rental at a
Time, I knew that I would eventually take another stab at writing a
follow-up book. The growing list of 5-Star Reviews on Amazon is
addicting. It motivates me to replicate our positive impact. As we
race to 1,000 5-Star Reviews and beyond, I wanted to see if I could
increase the positive impact we are making at One Rental at a Time
by sharing more powerful messages of success.

2) I want to highlight Real Estate successes that followed a

different path than mine. Our original book was simply our story
of Buy and Hold through a crazy 15-year cycle of Real Estate. I
knew that if I wrote a second book, I needed to push myself and
open the conversation to a larger variety of Real Estate Investing. I
wanted to cover hot topics like BRRRR and Out of State Investing,
wholesaling and flipping. The inspiration for this book came as I
evaluated the thousands of original content pieces on my YouTube
Channel. I saw unique stories, lots of inspiration and a clear path to
helping people understand the power of Real Estate Investing. I
generated transcripts of my most popular interviews and broke them
down into key pieces. I included material that was not covered in
my original One Rental at a Time book.

3) I want other success stories to resonate with you. There are

multiple perspectives and various journeys in Real Estate Investing.
In this book you will read about 15 unique stories of starting out,
struggles, and then the ultimate success. The stories are wide
ranging so a couple of them should hit home for you. You will read
about people who do it part time and others who are full time. You
will read about folks starting early and others starting late. You will
hear about men, women, and families conquering their little piece of
the Real Estate Investing world.
 4) I want you to see the spark that inspired other Real Estate
investors. Real Estate Investing is without question a powerful
force that can help families establish a better financial future. Every
testimony has a spark that inspired the investors. In this book I want
to share the spark of successful investors. I want you to know their
“Why” and what kept them going during the bad days.

5) I want you to know that you are not alone. People with similar
stories and similar struggles found a way to succeed with Real
Estate Investing. Many new investors feel alone in their struggles.
You don’t have to be, and your feelings are not unique. Real Estate
Investing offers so many options for you to get started and to
succeed. You just need to find your lane, focus and execute daily.
These 15 interviews will help you see what is possible. Every story
is unique at the beginning, but they all end with success.

How I Envision this Book being Consumed

1) My hope is readers consume each story start to finish the first time
through.

2) My hope is that you will identify three to five stories that hit
particularly close to home. In the future, you will return to them and
reread the subtleties of those stories

3) I have a playlist on my YouTube Channel that includes each

interview. I hope you go back and listen to the complete stories.
Each interview ranges from 30 – 60 minutes and has more
information than covered in this book.

Here are the key themes I took from each interview. Perhaps this will
help you find the chapters you should reread. The guest in each of these
interviews is a successful investor. Each has an amazing story that I admire.
I hope you find inspiration and enjoy each story.

Guest 1: Starts Part Time, Quits Job and Goes Full Time
 Who hasn’t dreamed of leaving your day job behind and start Real
Estate Investing? In this story you hear about an investor who started
Real Estate Investing while working full time and only quit his day job
after replacing his income with flips. The story and evolution of this
investor is amazing and so fun to hear about.

Guest 2: Quits W2, Understands Freedom Number and Now Traveling

the Country

Who hasn’t thought about quitting your day job and just jumping in
an RV and traveling around the country? In this chapter you will hear
about an investor who worked in health care, quit her job, built a
business, and now is enjoying time in an RV as she travels the country.
In addition to being an amazing investor, our guest spends her time
mentoring newbie investors and is always giving back to the
community.

Guest 3: Executing BRRRR Strategy, With Full Time Job and Young
Kids

I get asked about executing the BRRRR strategy all the time, and I
have had a great time learning from others who execute the strategy
regularly. In this chapter you will hear about a couple who executes
BRRRR strategy while working full time and raising a young family.
BRRRR is an amazing strategy, and it takes a lot of follow up and
conservative numbers, but it can be executed when you manage
schedules and have flexibility in your schedule.

Guest 4: BRRRR is Sold as Easy, but it is Really Risky for First Timers

I am thrilled that the One Rental at a Time brand attracts other

quality investors who want to give back. In this case we hear from an
investor that has used BRRRR to build a large portfolio. As he shares
through the interview, BRRRR is powerful but it offers lots of
opportunity for mistakes. Our guest will go as far as to call BRRRR an
advanced strategy that should not be attempted by a new investor.

Guest 5: Out of State Investing

 I am frequently asked for my thoughts on Out of State Investing.
Like any investing style it can work very well when done correctly.
Unfortunately, too many people get lured in by cheap prices and forget
to do their homework. What could go wrong if the house is only $40K?
As our guest will share, there are plenty of things that can go wrong if
you don’t have trusted boots on the ground. Make sure you have at least
one person that will quickly tell you the bad news.

Guest 6: Dave Ramsey and the FIRE Movement (Financial

Independence Retire Early)

Who doesn’t want to be Financially Free? Who doesn’t want

Financial Independence and Retire Early (FIRE)? Unfortunately, the
Dave Ramsey school of “pay everything off” is stunting the growth of
new Real Estate investors because they buy a property and then spend
10 years paying it off. As you will see in this discussion, the investor
has leveraged loan products that hurt cash flow and actually created
monthly stress instead of building freedom and cash flow. Paying off
debt with Debt Snowball is fantastic, but to take Ramsey’s advice when
investing in cash flow positive Real Estate is a slow way to grow.

Guest 7: How Strong is Your Why?

Our guest in this interview will share some tough stories about
struggles and nearly losing it all. Our guest will talk about being so far
in debt that he couldn’t pay his phone bill. The dire situation only
changed when he stopped making excuses and said, “I have 30 days to
make $10K or I am out.” He was scared because he didn’t want to get a
40 hour per week job, but he knew he had to support his wife and soon-
to-be growing family. How strong is your “Why?” Would you have
given up or kept going?

Guest 8: Buys $2,000 Mentoring Course and Dives In

I am not a fan of free seminars that end with “Run to the back of the
room and give us $2K or $10K or $20K.” These gurus prey on people
and the “hope” factor for a better future. However, those seminars can
 be the spark that gets people going. In this interview you will hear
about such an investor. He took his last $2K and jumped in because he
was so hungry for a better future. In today’s world you can get great
information for free or several hundred dollars, but they all require you
do the work.

Guest 9: Bets on Himself, Starts Business from Scratch

I have listened to this interview a couple of times because I love the

idea that the American dream is alive and well. In this interview you
will learn about an investor who bet on himself and quit his job when
he had two little kids at home. You will learn about an investor who
never stopped working and just kept after it every day for years. The
story ends after several years with a multi-million-dollar business that
he sells for a nice profit. You will learn about an investor who, after
selling his business, is still growing and doing deals. He will never stop.

Guest 10: Use First Time Buyer Programs to Get on Property Ladder

In this interview you will learn about a young man in his 20s that
saves up a few thousand dollars and jumps on the property ladder via a
203K Loan. This first step has grown into a substantial Real Estate
empire in Southern California. You will learn about getting a Real
Estate license, wedge deals and turning your primary home into a rental
property as you move on to your next project. This all started with the
investor saving $7K from his job at Jamba Juice.

Guest 11: The Grass Isn’t Always Greener in Other Markets

How many of you have thought about changing markets because

you can’t find any deals? In this interview you will learn about an
investor who has stayed loyal to a single market and changed her
approach as the market has shifted from time to time. Sometimes it is
easy to sell. However, that can change on a dime if interest rates jump
up and no one is buying homes above the median price. If the investor
focuses, he or she can change what they are doing to meet the needs of
the market.
Guest 12: Consider Selling Portfolio as You Turn 70

This is one of my favorite interviews of all time because it was so

different than any interview I have done. In this interview we hear from
an investor who is actively winding down her portfolio. After 30 years
of investing, she is down to one rental, and she plans to sell that one
soon. Our investor talks about the fact that she never saw a landlord
over 70 do a great job of active management so she has decided to sell
in her late 60s. She talks about owner carry to reduce taxes, and she
talks about being a hard money lender because she is not “Cash Poor”
for the first time in her investing career.

Guest 13: Focus on Property Below the Median

One area that is not discussed enough is the importance of buying

below median in your area because it will give you the greatest
protection and the most options should you want to sell. As you will
hear in this interview, our guest made a couple of mistakes early in his
career that caused him to lose a decade of investing. Do yourself a favor
and learn from his mistake. Get educated, learn the process, and get the
support of your network because you don’t have to do this Real Estate
Investing alone.

Guest 14: Wealth is Created Via Buy and Hold

In this chapter you will hear from an investor that I have

interviewed several times. I call him a friend. You will hear about the
Rat Race, the Corporate Ladder and then jumping out and betting it all
on his dream. You will hear about the struggle and then the success.
You will hear about the difference between income and wealth. As you
will see our guest has some big goals for units and wealth generation
via holding long term.

Guest 15: HGTV Makes It Look So Easy

When you watch one of those flipping shows on TV, you might
think, “Honey, we are smarter and better than them. Why don’t we flip
houses and make $50-100K? It looks so easy.” One night while sitting
on the couch, this couple had that exact idea and they decided to jump
in. They both work full time but have found a way to build a business
and make it all work out. You will hear about the struggle and the
ultimate win. It is not all roses. The easy HGTV flips don’t really exist.
However, if you learn the market you can build a business.
 Dedication
I want to take a minute to recognize the one person that has been by my
side throughout this crazy ride. Olivia you have logged countless car rides to
keep me company, you have taken on extra responsibilities while I was
traveling all over the world for my day job and you have always been there
to brighten my day when things got rocky. Your support has been everything
to me and I don’t think I thanked you enough over the decades together.

Thank you for loving and supporting me when I had a negative net
worth, when I lost $150K in the stock market and when I decided to not find
another job at 45 and give this One Rental at a Time idea a chance to grow
and help more people.

Perhaps the greatest thing we did together that I want others to realize is
that years ago we sacrificed and we did that for decades together. Even
today we do not live a flashy life and we still live below our means as we
know the Rat Race is real.

Simply said the growing Movement of One Rental at a Time would not
exists without all your support and I want to thank you for all you have done,
all you are doing and all you will do in the future.

Michael Zuber
 Chapter 1 - Guest Interview: Consistent
Effort and Commitment Leads to Amazing
Results
I interviewed a young man who has accomplished amazing things. At the
end of the interview, I was not nearly as amazed with what he had
accomplished as I was amazed by what he will accomplish. He was just
getting started! His future is bright! He is not satisfied with where he is at.
He is going after bigger and more amazing things!

I am fond of Real Estate stories where the investor started out part time
and transitioned to full time. This is one of those stories. This investor has
focused on one area and changed his approach as the market shifted. You
gain positive leverage by focusing on one market and then adapting your
market strategy. You lose leverage when you change markets. Too many
people bounce around different markets instead of adapting the approach in
their current market.

Here is a summary of the priceless lessons from this interview that

resonate with my strategies. May you be inspired by his wisdom.

Start With One Idea and then Pivot if Required

The many options the Real Estate market offers can overwhelm
newbies. Get “Highly Focused” at the start. As you will see in this
interview, our guest started with a particular focus, learned his market,
and then—Boom!—an unexpected opportunity came. If the opportunity
isn’t part of your original focus, you can ignore it or you can pivot and
pounce, taking the deal since you have done the work and know what to
do.

Do the Work
 My most common statement to new investors and students is this:
“It is time to do the work.” As my guest shares, he is not afraid to do
the work. Daily Execution is critical. New investors can’t wait for the
weekend to play catch up.

Success can look easy in the moment. However, success is often

built on months and years of hard work, learning and executing a plan.

The path to learning a market is often found with focus and daily
execution, especially for full time employees that have no spare time. If
you focus, you can commit to 10-20 minutes every day where you
execute your defined criteria.

Part Time to Full Time

This investor shares how he developed his initial interest in Real

Estate. He then worked on Real Estate after his full-time job each day.
When he went full time, he more than replaced his income. People hate
their day jobs, but they provide a lot of value. Banks like day jobs. Day
jobs build cash reserves. Day jobs reduce financial stress. Day jobs
provide the financial cushion for little errors that would otherwise crush
you.

Please do not be in a rush to quit your day job because someone else
said, “Do it!” Treat Real Estate as your chosen side hustle. Watch it
grow and quit that day job when money is not the problem.

Hiring people

Moving from a one-person shop to one with employees is a leap I

never made. I have thought about it and continue to think, “What if I
hired someone?” But, alas, I have zero employees. In this interview we
will hear about when and why he chose to add employees to grow his
business. It is fun to think about it, but adding employees often boils
down to future goals.

Hiring people is not for everyone and not required. If you want to
grow beyond a certain point, it will be required. Employees can take
 your business to another level, but they will also add overhead, and they
will likely add stress as you build out a new team.

If you are going this route, I suggest hiring someone to do tasks you
don’t like and busy work that often gets ignored to the last minute. This
will free you up for high value add tasks. Add people that will improve
your quality of life as the owner.

I suggest being slow to hire and quick to fire. A bad employee can
be toxic to a small company if you are not careful.

Single to Multi Family

Successful part time investors often start with Single Family

properties. It is just easier to learn and provides less risk than multi-
family properties. Single Family properties are usually easier to
transition out of if investors decide Real Estate is not their thing.

Multi Family can provide great financial results, but they involve
extra management and headaches from higher turnover. I own both.
Multi Family has been wonderful, but within the Real Estate Investing
cycles there are times where they are bad ideas because they can be
overpriced.

Remember even Grant Cardone started with a Single Family rental

way back in the beginning. He is starting to push the idea that singles
are okay again.

Legacy and Big Goals

I love interviewing guests that have big dreams and big goals
because they inspire me. They also cause me to question myself since I
no longer have a big unit goal or cash flow goal. I am still growing
every year, but I do not have those goals because my focus has changed
to living the best life and helping others get started on their journey.

For everyone reading this, I believe the goals are simple and in this
order: (1) Better Financial Future; (2) Financial Freedom; (3) Legacy
 Wealth.

Start One Man Show, Added Systems and People to grow

You never know where your Real Estate Investing journey will take
you. In this interview our guest highlights where he thought he would
begin. Yet he never did a deal in that area. Then he gained experience.
He expanded. He did more transactions and bigger deals as he gained
experience. He went full time and realized he needed a team and
systems to keep his business growing.

I found this guest’s story inspiring both for how it starts and for where it
is going!

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Invests in Polk County or Winter Haven, Florida
Investment area about 150,000 People Estimate
Invests 30 minutes from Home
Start Real Estate Investing in 2012
Made $16,000 on First Flip
Recently went Full Time after years of Side Hustle
Primarily fix and flip in the beginning
Quadrupled Income before Quitting day job
He Joint Ventures on every single deal with 50/50 Money partner
Next Project Rezone some land and going after 57 New Build
Townhomes
Advice – Dream Big
In Their Own Words

Guest: Up until probably about three or four months ago, I was primarily
fix and flip. I did a few wholesale deals here and there and a couple of long
term holds. Right now, we're transitioning. I am trying to create more
consistency. I didn’t have consistency with one or two fix-and-flips per
month. Right now, we're doing three to five deals a month with the
wholesaling aspect to it. We’re growing and scaling in that aspect.
 Zuber: As your experience expands with REI, you will have plenty
of chances to grow. I strongly believe in the beginning—say the first
three years—it is best to focus so you can accelerate and compound all
the lessons and experience. Once this initial foundation is built, your
opportunities for growth will expand exponentially. Note this investor
stayed loyal to a market and simply changed how he transacted Real
Estate.

Don’t rush the evolution but be aware it will happen. The increased
profit centers will be impressive as every lead can be transacted
differently.

Guest: I like buying old things and making them look new. I've always
bought older cars and bikes and other things. I basically redo everything in
it. I do it right. So now it's fun for me. That's why I like Real Estate: I turn
something ugly into something pretty.

Zuber: When you can integrate your personal characteristics with

REI, truly magical things can happen. This guest enjoys the process of
value add or beautification. Someone else might enjoy connecting two
parties for mutual benefit while others want to provide safe and secure
housing.

Guest: My dad has often said, “Work your day job for a living, and your
night job for savings.”

Zuber: There is something magical in his dad’s quote. Today we

would say, “Work your day job to pay your bills, and work your side
hustle to replace your day job.” The mindset is powerful when you
believe that the workday isn’t over just because your 9-5 job is over.

I advise people to have both focus and daily execution if you want
to learn your market. This must become a habit that is executed daily or
your risk missing something and stunting your growth.

Guest: My first deal came as I learned how to execute short sales. I took
a short sale coaching program, but then I never actually did a short sale. The
first property we found was through a bandit sign. She wanted around $60K.
I offered her $50K. She accepted the deal, but at that time, I didn't know
what I was doing. I intended to wholesale the house, but I didn't know how.
My dad advised me to keep the property. It was when values were so low. I
learned how to fix tile and remodel and do repairs. I painted and did all the
renovations myself. It took me four months. I sold it for $86K and made a
$16K profit. I was hooked! I was thinking, “Man! This is like real money.”
That's when I knew I could do it.

Zuber: You may have one idea where you want to start with Real
Estate Investing (like his short sale), but as time goes by you may find a
different area that will lead to your first deal (like his fix and flip). The
Real Estate market is cyclical. Short sales may have been very easy to
find in 2010 but they are tougher in 2021. You will do yourself a favor
when you focus on an area that fits the market you are in instead of the
market you wish you were in.

Sometimes Real Estate prices are just artificially low, and it is a

great time to build inventory and allow normalcy to come back to price
and value. Think about buying in 2010-2013. If you bought and held
during that window, in most markets you would be greatly ahead of the
game today.

Doing the work yourself and learning is powerful, but for most it is
without question not the best use of our time.

It can sometimes be best to lock up the deal and just keep moving
forward instead of waiting to know everything. When you have a great
deal and can prove to others it is a great deal, the money will show up.

Making $16K on your first project is awesome and earning that

Proof of Concept gives you tremendous confidence to keep moving
forward. Most investors should focus on the first deal and learning all
they can before they rush out and get a second and a third deal.

Guest: You only have to be good at one part of this business. You don't
have to go to 17 different cities and do 12 different things. If you get really
good at one or two things you will do great. Don't over-complicate your life.
 Zuber: The self-made Real Estate millionaires that I know
generally started very focused on an area and a business model. They
all eventually expanded by adding additional profit centers, but those
came long after they had a proven model.

Don’t be in a rush to add multiple cities or business models as you

must first build a solid foundation that you can build on for decades to
come.

Guest: It was scary to know that if I went full time, I would have to scale
this thing. I couldn't just keep doing the same thing. I would have so much
more time on my hands. What more could I do?

Zuber: Thinking about switching from Part Time Real Estate

Investor to Full Time is a large jump for many people. You have proven
the model works and you can turn a profit, but what the heck do you do
when you have all those hours you once spent at work?

That extra 40-60 hours needs to be spent doing something or you

might go crazy. This is when many Real Estate Investors go bigger. The
idea is that if some is good, more is better. If that is what you want and
that truly fulfills you, then go nuts. However, you don’t have to go
bigger if you don’t want to.

Real Estate Investors who replace their full-time incomes have

choices. You have earned the right to determine how you want to spend
your hours and days going forward.

Enjoy the freedom. You earned it. Only go big if you want to go big.

Guest: We started putting the right systems and the right processes in
place to start getting more comfortable with hiring people. Ever since then,
we’ve been scaling.

Zuber: If you want to go from a one-person shop to a true

company, then I would highly recommend establishing process and
procedures to help facilitate hiring and training. The right people in the
right spots can really explode your business.
 While many people chose to keep growing, if you chose to stay a
one-person shop and you are happy, then just enjoy life.

The overhead and responsibility that comes from growing a team

could add stress you don’t want and can’t handle. However, if you are
ready then go for it! I would love to see you explode your business
when you are ready to rock and roll, if that is what you want.

Guest: I JV on every single deal with a money partner to acquire the

property while I find the deal, project manage and I sell it. I spilt everything
50/50 with my money partner.

Zuber: Joint ventures can be amazing. In this case, the right money
partner made it easy to grow and take down deals with none of your
own capital. One partner finds the deal and does the work while the
other is passive and just puts up the money leaving the profits to be split
50/50. That’s a great deal.

I have only done a couple of joint ventures in my day. I prefer to

have a lender instead of a partner. I am happy to take all the risk, but I
also want most of the profit. Deals are so hard to come by that losing
50% of deal in a slow year could really hurt. Instead, I might pay 8-
10% interest only and a point on the money instead of having a partner
sharing the profit 50/50.

In this case, the partnership works. The money partner has deep
pockets, makes it easy to do deals, and is truly passive. It works for
both parties.

If the only way you can start is with a money partner, then that is
what you have to do. As you gain experience, I would try to establish a
lender/borrower relationship.

Guest: When I tried the investing side and the retail side, I got bogged
down with the retail. I was scatterbrained and unorganized. I didn't know
what was going on at the time. I hired someone to help me keep my
transactions in order and the way they should be.
 Zuber: If you decide to grow past a one-person shop, I suggest you
first hire someone who has a strength where you have a weakness.
Remove activities that you do not enjoy so you can focus on your
strengths.

As someone who hired lots of people over the years in my old

career, I can tell you the old rule of Hire Slow and Fire Fast is true. Lots
of people can look good on paper and fake an interview. Call around
and see who in your network might be able to speak for them and their
actual work experience.

Lastly guard your time as each new hire must be trained. At some
point they must add value to the team or they are simply costing you
money.

Guest: My market is diverse. We have a mobile home on five acres. We

have 2000 square foot homes on a one-tenth acre lot. We have million dollar
houses next to mobile homes that are falling apart.

Zuber: Learning your market is critical, but you must also focus on
an asset type in the beginning. Think about it…if you were starting out,
how confused would you be if you tried to compare mobile homes with
new construction homes? For instance, I suspect a mobile home on 5
acres has a different rental rate that a new construction house on a one-
tenth acre lot. They probably have different average turnover times and
turnover costs.

If you are going to be a buy-and-hold landlord, you also must

understand rental rates, turnover frequency, turnover costs, etc. This is
why the first step in my course is to get focused. For most of you, this
means being hyper focused at the start so you can build a foundation
and grow.

Guest: I'm trying to create legacy wealth. That's where the vision is at
right now. It took me a long time to decide which way I wanted to go. I
worked with single family at first and then added duplexes. I just found out
it wasn't for me. It just wasn't what I wanted to do. I decided to go multi-
family, but I didn't know how to do it. I talked to one of my partners that has
been in the space. His family is multi and multiple townhomes. We had this
piece of land sitting around for three or four years. Now we're trying to get it
rezoned. It is currently zoned for 43 units. I'm going through the whole
process of getting it high density to fit 57.

Zuber: The longer you stay in the game of Real Estate Investing
the more likely you will find your niche and what really excites you.
Don’t be afraid to change as you gain experience. Note our guest didn’t
change right away. After years of execution, he found his niche.

Having passion and energy for your work is amazing, as it allows

you to keep moving forward easily. Real Estate Investing has plenty of
ups and downs, but the bad days are easier to handle if you enjoy your
workday in and day out.

Guest: Going forward, most of my time will be spent on value add type
properties. I want to leave it for my family, my kids, and their kids. I want to
build that legacy.

Zuber: Legacy wealth is absolutely possible with Real Estate

Investing and your goals or ambitions can be as big as you want them to
be. Real Estate has created more millionaires than anything else, so
why not create Legacy wealth for generations to come?

Value I Took from Interview

Evolving Focus:

In this interview I see a young man who was given tremendous

work ethic by his parents and a drive for a better future that is rarely
matched. This powerful combination allowed him to get started in Real
Estate with one idea and then pivot as the opportunities changed. He
kept moving forward and evolving and expanding his vision over time.

As you gain experience and understanding of your market, you will

undoubtedly be given opportunities to expand and create value with
your knowledge and your network.
Investing in Backyard:

If you are lucky enough to live in a market that offers tremendous

Real Estate deals, then it is time to dive in and do the work. Nothing
comes for free in this business and the price of admission is investing
time to learn and then pulling the trigger and writing those offers.

Unless you are certain your market doesn’t work for your model, I
suggest you at least give your home market a shot. There is real value
in investing in your backyard. The worst case is that you learn a new
skill and then move on to a market that is out of your area.

Part Time to Full Time

I strongly support the idea of treating Real Estate Investing as your

Side Hustle for years, if not a decade. It is so much easier to get loans,
manage cash flow and build reserves when you have that weekly
paycheck. I think preaching “just quit and go full time” is reckless and
dangerous for many people. It can occasionally work out, but most of
the time it leads to negative outcomes.

I find it far better to build your portfolio slowly. Learn the lessons
over time and then quit when your monthly nut is covered. Having that
nest egg and monthly cash flow is a wonderful feeling. You can truly go
to work one day and then leave after quitting because of any reason you
like.

For most folks that follow my ORaaT journey, it is far better to

build a portfolio over time and then go full time once the basics are
covered.

Legacy Wealth

I look at the idea of Legacy Wealth much the same way I think of
Financial Freedom. I think both are great terms that create great energy,
but they are often too far away for most people to take action. I think a
far better message is “Lets establish a better financial future first!”
Once we do that then keep going and create Financial Freedom and
then Legacy Wealth!
 In this interview I felt the passion. I know he will create amazing
things as he has already achieved Financial Freedom and now it is on to
building Legacy Wealth.

Remember the goals. The first is a Better Financial Future. The

second is Financial Freedom. The third is Legacy Wealth.

Dream Big

Some people have this gift and some don’t. I struggle with thinking
big. I don’t know what that would look like for me. However, I love
hearing the passion behind others as they share their vision for the
future. In this interview I could just see the future he was about to
create. It is amazing.

If you are like me and not sure what to dream about, then don’t
worry. Keep focused on being a little better every day. Keep focused on
the next deal. I am very comfortable because I have done that. I have
lived it for the last 20 years and I know that I can be better and that I
will secure more deals going forward.
 Chapter 2 - Guest Interview: Must
Understand Your Freedom Number and
Let’s Go Travel the Country
In this interview I spoke to a young woman whom I consider both a
mentor and a friend. She has done amazing things in her Real Estate career
while holding down a demanding full-time job in healthcare.

I admire that she documented her Freedom Number and went for it!
Since achieving her goals and growing a company from scratch, she has put
special attention on helping “Newbie” Investors.

She sold her home, collected the check, jumped in her RV, and has
travelled the country. Who wouldn’t love to do that? I admire everything
about this guest. Watching her live life on her terms is inspiring!!

Working A Full-Time Job is Not a Limiting Factor

I hear all the time from new investors. For some reason they don’t
think they have time in the day to learn Real Estate Investing. Thus,
they either leave it to the weekends or—worse—they never bet on
themselves, choosing instead to invest in other people’s deals.

Investing in other people’s deals isn’t awful unless you invest

because you won’t do the work yourself. That is not okay in my book.
Spend the time to learn Real Estate and what makes a deal. Then you
have the knowledge to discern what is too hard for you. You also will
have learned what makes a good deal and be wiser about investing with
person “X”.

The biggest takeaway from this interview is that if you want it bad
enough, you will figure it out.

You Don’t Need a Huge Business

 I sometimes struggle with negative self-talk. I tell myself that I am
being lazy or not thinking big enough. After all, don’t all investors want
to run big businesses and be the biggest in their city or state? Nope!

Thankfully, this guest reminded me that it is perfectly okay to just

take care of your Freedom Number and then go travel the country. No
one has to have a big business. The significant overhead created by
larger companies can reduce your quality of life instead of increasing it.

Newbies Can Get Lost on BiggerPockets and YouTube

BiggerPockets and YouTube are around today to help new

investors. I love them! However, as this guest highlights, new investors
need to step away from the computer at some point and go outside and
see properties and build a team.

Real Estate Investing is a people business. The answers to your

ultimate success won’t be found on the internet. The internet will help
you with early discovery and basic understandings. If you spend over
one hundred hours a month on these sites, turn off the computer, go
look at Real Estate, and meet some future team members.

Business Becomes Easier

This business becomes easier as you learn your market and you
focus on your area of interest. Too many new investors bounce around
different areas and never make real progress. If you want to flip, then
do that. If you want to own storage, then do that. If you want to own
short-term rentals, then do that. Don’t bounce around and around never
moving forward.

Real learning comes from doing deals, making mistakes, and

learning the lessons that Real Estate Investing teaches. As a people
business, some of the craziest surprises come from people and not from
the property. Tenants will surprise you. Real Estate agents will surprise
you. Contractors will surprise you. The surprises could be positive, but
most surprises will be negative. Get used to it. By the third or fourth
 time a tenant ghosts you, ghosting will be old hat and you will quickly
move on.

Don’t let the potential negatives keep you out of the wonderful
world of Real Estate Investing. You will have some bad days. You will
have some really bad days. But over the course of a successful decade,
you will have hundreds of great days for every bad day.

You Don’t Need 1,000 Units

You do not need to own 1,000 units or to flip 50 homes a year to

earn financial freedom. Our guest thought it would take only three flips
a year to replace her income.

Shoot for four rental properties a year, and after 20 years you will
be amazed by your cash flow and net worth. Four is a great number
because everyone thinks they can get there. That’s one house per
quarter. Once you get to your fourth rental, you have a choice. You can
go for 10 rentals, or you can stop at four.

People say, “I want 1,000 units,” because it is a round number and

sounds impressive. Many people say it because they heard someone
else say it. They think, “I have do at least as many as them.” Do
yourself a favor: figure out your Freedom Number and then calculate
the minimum units needed as our guest did.

Think Past Freedom Number

Perhaps the biggest “A-ha” I took from this interview was to think
past your Freedom Number. Once your family needs are covered and
once the extras are covered, what do you want to do next?

You have learned a valuable skill and replaced your income, but
what is next? What do you want to do that is bigger than yourself? Do
you want to fund a charity, build a school, or something else that is
really cool?
 I hope everyone reading this book thinks beyond their Freedom
Number and sees what is possible. Real Estate Investing is a skill that
can add so much value to the world. As an investor, I hope you think
big and do something really special!

Do What You Love

Something that I hope comes across in this interview is that our

guest truly loves what she does. The energy and excitement she shares
throughout the interview is infectious. I strive to have as much energy
and passion as our guest has.

Their ability to do what you love and live the life you desire is
amazing and something I hope each of you gets to experience.

Enjoy!

Guest Details
Currently Traveling Country in RV after Selling Home of 12 Years
Worked in Medical Field before She Replaced her Income with Real
Estate
Started Flipping to Replace Income from Day Job
Now Flips, Wholesales and Buy and Hold
Recently Started doing Some Hard Money Lending
Busier Now after Leaving Full time job as she builds her business
Has a Special Focus on Helping Newbies Get Started
Quote to Newbie “Don’t Chase Butterflies”
Newbies Do the Work in your Market don’t get Lost on BiggerPockets
Newbies Focus on Step 1 Don’t listen to Podcasts and Go I need
Systems before Deal 1
Newbie Question: Do you know your Freedom # (Have you calculated
it)
Advice – Calculate Your Freedom Number
In Their Own Words

Guest: We just sold our primary home, and we were looking around.
Since I’m an investor, I won’t overpay for my own personal home. I'm not
going to get into a bidding war to buy our next place. So, I decided, “Let's
just get an RV and see the country.”

Zuber: Real Estate Investors who stay engaged for decades will
eventually have great life choices. In this case, we have a couple in
their forties deciding to take months or even years to travel the country
in an RV.

How cool is that? Who wouldn’t want to jump in an RV with their

significant other and their dog and experience this great country? How
about being able to do it when they are young enough to enjoy the
hiking and natural beauty of the country?

Once you have the systems and teams in place you have freedom of
choice. You can unplug and monitor the business without being in the
day to day. Maybe getting an RV and traveling the US is not your thing,
but maybe you want to bounce around Europe or Asia for 90 days.
Maybe you want to donate time or dollars to a charity. Long-term Real
Estate Investing can provide great options.

Guest: Too many newbie investors are spending hours and hours on
YouTube or BiggerPockets or REIClub. They aren’t getting anywhere.
Focus. When I talk to people, I tell them to focus. We need to keep talking to
our students about focus. Unfortunately, newbies just bounce all over the
place and they never get anywhere.

Zuber: Real Estate Investing is a tremendous way to build wealth.

New investors can get distracted by the many ways to get started and
make money. Newbies can get lost searching and learning and getting
nowhere.

“Focus” is the first step I address with students because time is a

significant constraint. Full-time employees need to focus on their
investing vehicle (Buy and Hold, Flipping, Wholesaling, etc.) and their
investing area (state, city, zip code).

Focus also means investors need to let other things go. For example,
if you want to be a Buy and Hold investor, you would ignore flipping or
 wholesaling. Focus means that you you pick an area and ignore other
cities and states. Continually focus on your market.

Guest: I actually had to get off BiggerPockets a few years ago. New
investors will say, “You have a profile on BiggerPockets, but you haven't
been on there in a while.” I tell them that I had to get off. I would get sucked
in the same way people get sucked into Facebook. I couldn’t do it anymore. I
think it's a great platform, but I think a lot of newbies can get lost and go
nowhere.

I coach students and suggest they focus and do research on their market.
They often come back and say, “My friend was talking about Airbnb.
Another was talking about this. Another about that.” I tell them, “Focus. Just
tackle one rehab or one rental. Then you can learn the next thing.”

Zuber: One thing that is very different today compared to when I

started investing is information. When I started investing decades ago, I
had a few books and a few Real Estate events each year. Today there
are thousands of new content pieces each and every day.

The volume of information can be overwhelming. That is why I

push the idea of “Focus” so hard. At some point, new investors need to
do the work and look at their market instead of going down the rabbit
hole of BiggerPockets or YouTube University.

Each platform is amazing as they help so many get started.

However, you need to turn off the apps and physically and in person
look at the Real Estate in your market.

Guest: Consistency is vital! Many people work full-time jobs. The ones
who are focused make progress. They say, “Every Wednesday between one
and three, I am focusing on Real Estate Investing. I have the time off and I
have a lot of other stuff to do, but that's the time I'm going to put into Real
Estate Investing. These are the tasks that my mentor gave me to do and that
is why I'm going to do them this week.”

For example, I worked full-time in healthcare. During every half-hour

lunch break, I folded letters I was sending to prospective sellers. It’s not the
most fun way to spend your lunch break, but you have to make sacrifices to
get what you want.

Zuber: “Focus” is the phrase I repeat the most. The next two are
“consistency” and “daily execution.” Most investors that focus on one
rental at a time can—after a little practice—accomplish their daily
activities in as little as 20-30 minutes.

When you combine focus and daily execution, you start to learn
your market. You understand the “average” deal in your market. When
you can spot an “average” deal, then you have the power to know good
or great deals.

Guest: I'm busier now than I was when I had a full-time job. If you can't
handle a full-time job and starting up your own business on the side, you're
not going to be able to handle running your own business.

Zuber: Do you find this statement surprising? It’s true for most
investors who move from part time to full time. Most of them build
businesses with teams, overhead, pipeline, etc. You could be much
busier after quitting your full-time job, if you choose to be.

If you follow the “One Rental at a Time” idea and decide to just live
off your rentals, you can decide how busy you want to be. For example,
since I left my W2, my workload has gone down significantly since I
did not build a company. nor did I add a bunch of overhead.

We still added units. We still increased cash flow. We flipped over

50 properties in under 3 years. On top of that, we created a popular
course, a YouTube Channel, and an Instagram page.

Guest: Some newbies sit in their offices and spend all their time soaking
in information. They shouldn’t be listening to podcasts about six million
different things. Everybody wants you to listen to their YouTube video or
their podcasts. If you're a newbie, focused on things geared towards
newbies.

Zuber: So true! As you get started on your journey of Real Estate

Investing, I hope you find your thing that makes you excited. Once you
 find it, focus and start taking action in your market.

You can learn a lot listening or watching others, but nothing beats
getting off your butt and going out and looking at properties, talking to
owners, and networking in your market. Saying you watched 100 hours
of REI videos does not make you a great investor. Getting out in the
field and kicking rocks in your market for 100 hours certainly would
help.

Listening to podcasts and watching YouTube Channels for

inspiration or basic understanding is great, but it never replaces the
need to get in the field and “Do the Work.”

Guest: Here’s what will make you money: learning your market and
finding deals. Here’s what won’t make you money: reading about other
people's success stories, listening to a million podcasts and going down the
rabbit hole on BiggerPockets, commenting and having online conversations.

Zuber: This guest wants the newbie to execute and do the work.
True understanding comes from action. Even imperfect action is better
than nothing as you start your journey.

It was harder to collect information 30 years ago. I wish the various

online communities for Real Estate Investing newbies existed then.
Today, access to endless amounts of information today is a frustration
to many coaches. Their students say they want advice, but then the
students come back weeks later with another idea or topic because
they’ve been searching the web.

If you follow One Rental at a Time, my story is simple for Newbies.

Focus your criteria and start learning your market with daily execution.
This shouldn’t take more than 20 minutes a day once you are
comfortable with the activity.

Guest: I'm selling my house and I'm going to travel the country and run
my businesses from the road. I don't own a hundred units. People tell me, “I
want to own a hundred units,” or, “I want to flip 60 houses a year.”

I always ask them, “Why?”

 Many times they can't tell me why. That’s what they were told from
listening to endless podcasts. They like the idea of being able to say, “I flip
50 or 100 houses a year” or “I own 1,000 units.” You simply don’t have to
be that big if you don’t want to be that big.

Zuber: I am happy to hear other experts saying this. I hear similar

dreams and I ask, “Why do you want to do that?” I’ll also often hear
about investors wanting to coach their kids or take vacations with their
significant other.

You can only have one or the other. You can have a big business
with huge top line revenue and monster overhead, or you can have time.
But you can’t have both!

If you want time, you need much smaller and simpler goals. If you
want a big business doing $10M a year or 1,000 units, time will not be
achievable.

My hope is more people realize that they can achieve Financial

Freedom with 4 or 10 or 20 units. They can be free to do what they
want, when they want, and with whom they want. Life gives you
choices, so pick wisely.

Guest: I calculated my Freedom Number. When I first started flipping,

my goal was to work for myself and to not go to a hospital every day and to
not have someone dictate my vacation time. I wrote down all my income
from working at hospitals and all my expenses. Knowing what I could
potentially profit from a flip, I figured out how many houses I needed to flip
each year to reach that number and get out of my healthcare job. That was
my focus.

Zuber: I wish more people took serious control of their financial

lives by calculating their Freedom Number. In addition to
understanding what you need today, consider what you could cut out or
reduce to increase disposable income that you can invest elsewhere.

If you don’t know where you are, and you don’t know where you
want to go, it will likely prove impossible to get to any desired
 destination. By documenting your income and expenses you can clearly
see your financial house. This is critical as you start your journey.

Remember the process is simple. First, we start with a better

financial future, then financial freedom, and—if you keep going—
legacy wealth.

Guest: If I can flip more than three per year, then I can start giving back
a percentage of the check to charity or building something special with
purpose behind it. But in the beginning, I was focused on getting out of the
job. That was priority number one! Now that I’m out of my job, I'm focused
on other reasons to build more wealth that will help people.

Zuber: As a Real Estate Investor, I agree with this progression and

have seen it myself. First focus on your number. Work hard and as time
goes by, you will get there. Then you realize you have skill, a process,
and the team to do so much more so you just keep going!

Once you reach your Freedom Number, it is fun to think about what
you would do. For example, one of the things I would love to do some
day is routinely cover one day of food costs each month for Fresno
Food Banks. At last check that was $9,687. I would likely round it to
$10K. Can you imagine giving away 10K every month or 120K a year?

I call this the “Big Goal” that I will work towards over the next
decade. What is your big goal? After you take care of your number,
where would you like to go next, who do you want to help?

Guest: People get so caught up in how people tell them it should be.
They hear, “You should be an entrepreneur” or “You should be self-
employed.” I know plenty of people who are great investors that I admire so
much. They have jobs that they love and are super passionate about. They
have the best Real Estate portfolio that they're building on the side and it's
amazing. I don’t try to be them.

Zuber: Don’t ever let someone else make you feel bad. Just
because they think all investors should be full time does not mean you
have to be full time. Frankly, I loved my job up until the day I didn’t
 love it anymore. I thought I was going to do until I was 50. Suddenly at
45, I said, “Nope! I’m not doing this anymore.” It was time for a
change.

If you love your job or your career, and you can build a great buy-
and-hold Real Estate portfolio on the side, then by all means do it. You
would have the best of both worlds. If the day comes when you don’t
love your job anymore, you can just quit and recharge or just do
something else.

It was great to know we had this nice portfolio behind us as I was

busting my butt during the day. In my career, you could be fired at any
time for lack of performance. Having a portfolio of rentals behind me
gave me confidence to go for it because I always had a Plan B.

Guest: I see people do it all the time that have jobs. They have kids.
They are mothers. They are husbands. The list of other responsibilities goes
on and on, but they still do it.

Zuber: I totally agree with this statement above. If you want it bad
enough anyone can build a decent buy-and-hold Real Estate portfolio
because it only takes 20 minutes a day in the beginning. You are busy,
but a Buy and Hold rental portfolio can be built slowly but surely. It
just takes time and starts with learning your market.

Get focused and execute daily on your defined search criteria. In

about 60 days or so, you will have learned your market, and you will
have a skill you can deploy in other markets if you so choose.

Guest: Even if you're a newbie, you don't need to do a deal. A lot of

newbies think, “I just need to do a deal. Even if I only make five grand, I just
need to do a deal and I need to learn.” No, you don't. You don't need to do a
deal.

Zuber: This statement hits home especially in seller’s markets.

New investors continually get outbid and they start to doubt
themselves. At some point they may even decide, “I just need to do a
deal to gain experience.”
 You don’t want an experience that includes a $20K loss if you can
avoid it. Please learn your market and learn what an average deal is in
your market. Maybe your market is crazy, and it is hard to earn a 2%
return (or Yield). Maybe you are in a market that offers 8% return.
Once you know average, you have all the power because you can
confidently look for deals that are above average or what I call good or
great deals.

A good deal is 1% - 1.5% above average with a Great Deal being

over 2% above average. How to get Started One Rental at a Time is the
course where I teach how to learn your market via focus and daily
execution.

Guest: I was on BiggerPockets. I answered questions and commented

and found people and got totally sucked in. Then I realized that three hours
of my day passed. How long was I going to let this happen to me? I got off
the site. I stopped.

Zuber: I am all for learning and engaging with others in the Real
Estate Investing world. Especially for newbies. It can feel great to know
you are not alone. However, I strongly suggest you focus on learning
your market first and engaging with BiggerPockets or YouTube
University second. We need to build that muscle memory of your
market first.

If you want to participate in a great Real Estate Investing group, I

have a Private FB Group called One Rental at a Time Works. It is only
available to my students. It is where they network, ask questions, share
wins, and support each other. I call it the happiest place on the internet
as we are trying to win and support each other. I just love the group and
how it is growing every week.

Value I Took from Interview

Just Taking Off:

Can you imagine having the resources to say, “Honey, let’s sell our
house. It is valued at some stupid number?” Then you say, “Instead of
 buying a replacement, why don’t we jump in the RV and go see the
country?” That may not be your dream, but imagine a life where you
could do it, if you wanted to do it.

Taking off on a road trip for a year with your significant other and
your dog sounds like a great life. She still does deals and runs her
business from the road. Having a business that is big enough to be
supported by team members is awesome. Sure, you might miss out on
some profit, but who cares when you can travel the country at a
relatively young age? What a great opportunity! I have loved following
the cross-country travels of this guest on social media.

Newbie’s Need Focus:

All new investors need to Focus. I want my students and followers

to let the shiny objects go away. I tell them to pick one vehicle and one
market and to get to work learning their market.

I don’t want my followers and students to try and game the system.
If they looked at their market for 20 minutes on a given day, I don’t
want them looking at a different market if they have more time. They
will create confusion and negative leverage which takes them further
away from the goal of buying a rental property in their market.

Focus, Execute Daily and then document what you see and—Boom!
—you will be learning day after day. It is powerful when I see the
lightbulb go off for new investors. It’s that moment when they get it
and say, “Hey I just found a deal!”

Getting Lost in BiggerPockets

BiggerPockets is a great platform. I used to be on it a lot. It allowed

me to understand I was not alone. Others were in the same boat as me,
doing the same thing and having the same struggles. I found comfort
knowing I wasn’t alone in my desire to build a Real Estate rental
portfolio.

There is a time and a place for BiggerPockets. Like our guest, I had
to get off the platform in order to focus on my business. At one time, I
 was a Featured Blogger with a weekly spot, but as the platform grew,
the rules and players changed, and I had to move on in my business.

I think BiggerPockets is the best single platform for new investors

but please don’t get lost in it. You need to get out and look at Real
Estate.

Freedom Number and Then Something Bigger

I wish more people understood the value behind knowing your

Freedom Number. In my Get Your Money Right course the first step is
an exercise called “Choices”. In this exercise you run through 10
categories, documenting what you spend now. You then think about
what it would cost to minimize expenses and then what it would cost if
you wanted to go big.

This exercise allows you to see where you can cut today, and it
allows you to dream big. This first step is what allowed Olivia and I to
reduce our expenses in the short term so we could live a bigger life
later. Do this exercise with your significant other because it helps you
two be on the same page.

Never Just Do a Deal

In a Seller’s Market, too many new investors think they must do a

deal to learn and be in the game. You do not want to do a bad deal. I
have seen people do one bad deal, and they were never able to come
back to do a second or third deal.

First learn the daily discipline of How to Get Started One Rental at
a Time. This Focus and Daily Execution will take you a long way on
your journey to learning their market and building confidence.

If you are confident in yourself, you won’t do a bad deal just

because you feel you have to do a deal. You must have the confidence
to say, “The average is ‘X’ and I’m not paying ‘X+1’!”
 Chapter 3 – Guest Interview: Leveraging
BRRRR Strategy for Financial Freedom
BRRRR is a great strategy to start and grow your Real Estate fortune.
BRRRR stands for: Buy, Repair, Rent, Refi, Repeat. The goal of a great
BRRRR project is to refi the property, have zero money in the deal and have
positive cash flow. If you can do that, your return is infinite. This is why
people fall in love with this strategy.

Too many people are peddling BRRRR as a get rich quick scheme. It is
not easy as they make it sound. Our guest will show you how he is using it
to win. However, he lost money on his first deal. BRRRR projects have to go
almost perfect for you to have zero money in a deal and positive cash flow.

I choose a far slower and less exciting path to Financial Freedom with
buy-and-hold rentals. However, I executed very similar strategies in 2010
and 2011 when the banks stop lending but deals were everywhere. I used my
money to buy for cash and remodel. Once I rented, I would borrow from a
Private Lender to refund all my costs. The ability to recycle capital was
pretty amazing.

Parents with Full Time Jobs and Young Kids Can Do it

I love hearing from investors who have young kids and are
choosing to chase Financial Freedom. I remember having to juggle
schedules with Olivia as we were trying to balance growing a business
while making sure to take care of our family responsibilities. Chasing
Financial Freedom takes time and that means parents with young kids
will need to juggle time and financial constraints.

Losing $10K is Never Fun

Real Estate Investing is full of risks and plenty of Real Estate

Investors lose money on their first deal. This does not give you
 permission to lose money to just do a deal. Recognize that Real Estate
Investing is harder than it looks.

Admit it. Real Estate Investing looks super easy when you see it on
TV or when someone talks about it on social media. Trust me, it is not
easy, and you can lose money in so many ways.

What I love about this interview is first she recognizes the loss.
More importantly is that she learns from it and gets better on the next
one. Mistakes happen. Losing money happens, but what should never
happen is repeating past mistakes. You already paid the price. Why
repeat the mistake and pay the price again?

Find Your Property Type and Stick to It

I love it when Real Estate Investors find their lane or their property
type that they love. In this case, my guest has Row Houses in nice parts
of town. When you focus and execute your plan day in and day out, you
start to become the best investor in that segment. This allows you to see
deals where others don’t and to run away when others are overpaying.

Once you find you niche, enjoy it! You can change your financial
future with one kind of asset in one part of town. When you focus in
one area, your efforts to improve the area will compound as you do
more units and attract more investors. I have seen areas change as one
investor started to upgrade house after house. It is awesome to see.

Talking about and Tracking Your Freedom Number is Empowering

I wish more couples and investors would take the time to document
their personal Freedom Number. You can’t start this journey without an
inventory of where you are. This guest went next level. She broke it
down to the number of houses required. I admire and respect her level
of focus. If you know where you are and you know where you want to
go, the path should be pretty straight forward as it was in this case.

Having a Two-Step Financial Freedom Goal is Strategic

 What I appreciate even more about this couple’s journey is not that
they set their Freedom Number but that they went next level with it.
Our guest set one Freedom Number as the minimum. Then she said,
“We need this much for the extras in life. Our kids are growing. We
want them to go to the best schools and do the things they want. That
will cost money.”

Children are not cheap, but if you plan for the expenses and involve
them in the process, they can learn skills and money habits that will set
them up for life. I wish I had spent more time talking with our child
about money, investing and spending.

Self-Management is Possible

I have never self-managed an investment property and I never will,

but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea for you. I live far away from my
rentals. I am not handy. I had zero extra time, so I didn’t have a choice
in the matter.

As our guest highlights, self-management is an important part of her

business model, and it is why they have chosen to focus on a certain
part of town. They chose to focus on a higher end rental area that
should require less headaches and drama with rent collection.

The BRRRR Method Can Work if Executed Well

The BRRRR Method is very popular and can be amazing because it

allows you to recycle capital. However, as markets rise and margins
gets squeezed, it is easy to get caught with money in the deal if you
can’t refi out all your money.

The BRRRR strategy hinges on buying right and with plenty of

safety in the numbers. Remodels can go overbudget and refi appraisals
can come in much lower than expected. New investors should not get
enamored with the fact you can run this play over and over again with
none of your own money. It is possible, but don’t plan on it. If you get
caught short, how will you pay back your lender?
 Working full time and running multiple BRRRR projects is tough
but not impossible if you have systems, teams, and processes in place.
It certainly helps to have a flexible schedule, but you can make it work
with a regular 9-5. Get ready for lots of video calls, late night drive-by
inspections, and plenty of weekend work.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Invests in Lancaster Pennsylvania
Married two kids
Both Work Full Time Jobs
Focus on Executing the BRRRR Strategy
Initial Freedom # is $4,000
Purchased First Property February 2019 a Slumlord Junker
Lost about $10,000 Buying Cheap Property
Now Focus on Better Quality Row Houses
Do Much of Remodel Themselves
Self-Manage Growing Rental Portfolio
Advice – Location Matters, Sometimes just a Few Streets Away
In Their Own Words

Guest: We use the BRRRR strategy in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and we

mainly invest in the nicer areas of downtown. We focus on single family row
homes right now. We love their architecture. The numbers currently work.

Zuber: The BRRRR Strategy is amazing, but it does offer plenty of

chances for new investors to lose money, especially if they are using
borrowed or private capital. I can’t tell you how many new investors
tried a BRRRR deal, and they had to leave money in the deal causing
issues with their private lenders.
 If you are in a position where you use your own money and it won’t
be an issue to leave $10-20K of your cash in a deal, that is great and
reduces risk. Unfortunately, too many people are told that to use the
BRRRR strategy, you don’t need any money: just roll the capital over
and over again.

Investing in a certain product type is fun, but only if the numbers

work out. Never let your personal taste drive you to buy a bad deal that
loses money every month and has negative cash flow.

Guest: Our first deal wasn't in the nicest area in the city. We have since
sold the property. It was disgusting. It had cockroaches and was a total
slumlord property before we bought it. When we bought it, we kept the
property management in place even though we self-manage because we
wanted them to issue and manage the sixty-day notice for the tenant to
vacate. There was no way we were keeping that property in that condition
even though it was occupied. No chance.

Zuber: I can’t count how many people tackle a nasty slumlord

property as their first investment. The situation is especially hard when
they are occupied. The tenant has to move out because you can’t
perform a full gut remodel of a slumlord property with the existing
tenant in place.

If you ever run into this situation, make sure to take care of the
existing tenant because they will need to move out. I have helped
tenants that were in this situation with some moving expenses or the
deposit on their next place because I felt terrible some slumlord did not
maintain their property. Remember this is a people business and good
karma adds up over time.

Guest: After remodeling the property, we went to find a new tenant. This
was tough because no one was passing our criteria. We finally found a tenant
that had a good landlord reference, but it was not a perfect fit. We should
have said “no,” but we got impatient and said “yes” even though there were
red flags. This did not go well.
 Zuber: It is hard to stare at a vacant unit day after day. You might
get applicants that aren’t good solutions to filling the unit. You have a
couple of choices in this scenario. You can keep your standards but
lower rent. This will increase applications and hopefully in the pile of
new apps is one that hits your criteria. You can also sacrifice your
standards and criteria and get the larger rent.

After many years, I can say without question the right answer is to
never change your criteria. You set it for a reason: to protect yourself
and get the type of tenants you seek. I know it is odd to lower rent,
which increases applications and work, but it is better to keep your
criteria and just process until you find the right tenant.

Our guest found that ignoring the red flags turned into a nightmare
of late rent, crazy service calls, and a stressful relationship.

Guest: We lost $10K on our first deal because of the area, condition, and
tenant selection. We learned to be a little more careful with area and
condition. Also saying “yes” to a tenant because we had a vacant unit too
long was a mistake that led to lost rental income. We just sold it and moved
on versus keeping a problem property.

Zuber: Losing $10K on your first deal is never fun. However, not
learning from your mistake is the true mistake. In this case the issue
started with not knowing the market well enough. Sometimes you can
find a property a few streets over or 5 minutes away and think it is the
same as others up the road. It might be, but you won’t know until you
have spent the time and learned the market.

I suspect the challenges they had with tenant selection was because
their property was just outside the cool area. Thus, they didn’t find the
tenants who met the criteria. From there it got worse because they
rented to a tenant that didn’t meet their criteria. Don’t sacrifice criteria.
Simply lower rent and see if you can find a “yes” answer in the wave of
applications you are sure to get.

Guest: We now know our target tenants. They are young professionals
whose next step would be buying a house. That's who we target and that tells
us where to buy. It's just so nice. They come into the houses. They love how
the house looks. They care about their credit score. They've never made late
payments before. It's just a totally different ball game. The location changes
everything.

Zuber: Tell me if you have heard this before: Location, Location,

Location! If you know who you want to rent to, then you need to buy in
the areas those tenants want to live. Being a landlord is not like Field of
Dreams where you “Build it and they will come.” That is not how it
works.

If you want to rent to Generation Z, for example, you need to buy

where they like to live, work, and socialize. It is that simple.

Guest: We got $300 cash flow per house in our target area. We
calculated that we need another 8.6 houses to reach Financial Freedom.

Zuber: Do you know how many houses it would take you to

achieve financial freedom? I strongly suggest you sit down and do
some rough math. Make some assumptions and try and figure it out.

Something that helped Olivia and I all those years ago was trying to
understand what expenses we could reduce. We lived on less and saved
more for future investments. A better financial future is not that hard.
Financial Freedom is possible for everyone if they do the work and
make some short-term sacrifices.

Guest: This market is crazy at times. I went to see a house from a

wholesale. When I showed up, there were so many people that I didn’t go in
and look at it. I thought, “If I win, I will have overpaid.”

Zuber: Markets can be crazy sometimes. When there is no

inventory, it seems like even more buyers come out. When the energy
around a deal increases, it is very likely that the winning bidder is going
to overpay. I think it is wise sometimes to just not play in bidding wars
as they only help the seller.

Always know your numbers. When the limit is hit, just move on to
the next opportunity. As I say, “The deal of the decade comes around
 once a year, if you are ready for it.”

Guest: Anybody can do this business if they focus and do the work. All
you have to do is take consistent action. If you want something bad enough,
you're going to do it. Focus on the location and think about the kind of
tenant you want and go from there.

Zuber: I agree with our guest. Anyone can do this business. You do
not have to start young. Any age will do. You don’t have to start with
money. Any money will do. You don’t have to start with a lot of
education. Any education will do.

What all new investors need is focus and the ability to keep moving
forward day after day. All you have to do is focus on being a little better
each and every day, and you will be amazed at what happens over time.

When I say “Focus,” I want investors to really focus in on an area

and a property type. As our guest shares, they like Row Houses in nice
areas. If that is you, great! If not, no big deal. What are you looking
for? Get good at that.

Guest: I read the book on property management by Brandon Turner and

his wife. I took notes and created a binder based on their teachings. I just
follow the rules and treat everyone the same. It's the law.

Zuber: Love that our guest brought her experience with self-
management, as that is something I haven’t done. As a leader at
BiggerPockets, Brandon’s book on property management is a great
primer for what it takes.

Fair Housing is not a joke. If you choose to self-manage, please

understand the rules and the dos and don’ts. Treat everyone the same.
Use the same criteria for all and be a good person and your chances of
running afoul of the law are reduced.

Guest: I loved your book. It taught me to be patient and to celebrate the

journey more. We have the Financial Freedom goal of $4K. Then we want to
keep going, so we should document and enjoy the process.
 Zuber: I am honored that our guest enjoyed the book. I am excited
that our guest understood my biggest regret. In short, I was so focused
on the next deal and moving forward that I failed to document much of
the journey. I now look back and say, “You idiot, you should have taken
some pictures so you can remember all the properties you have
bought.”

The journey to Financial Freedom is long. Take the time to

document the properties in your journey.

Guest: Real Estate is a great way to get Financial Freedom for the
average person. The ability to focus and execute a plan that ends with
Financial Freedom dreams is amazing.

Zuber: I agree! There is no better investment that Real Estate for

the average individual to build a portfolio of cash-flowing rental
properties. These assets appreciate over time, offer tax advantages, and
are inflation protected with 30-year, fixed-rate debt.

You do not have to chase Financial Freedom if you don’t want to,
but you should at least shoot for a better financial future with a few
rental properties. I recommend everyone try and get to four properties,
even if it takes you 8-10 years. It will be worth it as value rises, debt is
paid down, and rent goes up.

Guest: Our Financial Freedom goal is $4,000. Next we're going for
$7,500. I want the bigger goal so we can have the extras. Our little ones will
not be small forever, so I want to make sure they can get all the extras as
well.

Zuber: I love the two-step goal. In my Get Your Money Right

course, I start off with a “Choices” exercise because I want everyone to
understand that their choices drive required monthly expenses.

In this case the $4,000 number is like the low bar in my “Choices”
spreadsheet while the $7,500 is in the middle. They likely have a $15K
number if they really want to go for it and live life to the fullest.
 I can’t stress it enough. Financial Freedom starts by understanding
where you are. I love my guests’ recognition, and how they clearly talk
about their goals together.

Value I Took from Interview

Understanding Area Drives Tenant Selection:

I am sure you have heard it many times, “Location, Location,

Location.” With Real Estate Investing, never forget this phrase because,
as our guest found out, you could find the cutest little house and a
discount and fix it up only to lose money when your target tenants
never show up.

It is so easy to cut corners and accept a marginal tenant when a

property sits vacant. It is far better to lower rent than lower tenant
quality. I know it seems backwards. You will undoubtedly get even
more junk apps, but hopefully at a lower rent you find that perfect
tenant that hits all your tenant criteria.

Find Your Lane and Focus:

It might take you a little bit to find your lane or your desired asset
type and location, but once you do, get focused. Over time I want you
to become the best and brightest at your property type in your area.

In this case they found Row Houses in nice areas, and now they are
just rinse and repeating as they climb the hill to financial freedom. By
being focused and telling everyone what they want to buy and where
they want to buy it, they increase their chances of off-market deals or
pocket listings.

New investors don’t have a lot of extra time so please make sure
you focus and execute daily on your target market. It only takes 10-20
minutes of quick searching, but it needs to be done daily to make sure
you stay current and don’t miss something.
Understand Minimum Freedom Number

I wish all new investors understood the importance of knowing their

Freedom Number. The fact that this couple has taken the time to break
it down to needing 8.6 more houses is just so cool.

Have you sat down and calculated what you spend in a month?
What lifestyle choices have you made that increase or decrease your
monthly expenses? Earning Financial Freedom starts with
understanding the target. To hear that a young couple not only
understands the number but talks about it freely is just so awesome.

Have a Bigger Goal Past the Minimum Freedom Number

Understanding your basic Freedom Number is awesome. However,

the real joy comes when you can flex a little bit and think bigger. I
applaud having a bigger number that considers two growing babies to
whom you want to give the world.

Take care of base needs first and then you can think bigger and
tackle more projects. Do you know you Freedom Number? Do you
know the next number for slightly bigger and better things?

Avoid Bidding Wars

I often hear about new investors getting caught up in a bidding war

just to get a deal. If you follow my course, you are likely writing offers
on properties that produce Good or Great Deals. Unfortunately, if you
are not careful, a bidding war could quickly turn any good deal into an
average or bad deal. Don’t be that investor who overpays just to get a
deal.

Losing money is never fun. Losing money because you simply over
paid is not cool. Know your numbers and stop when a price goes up and
kills a good deal. I know it doesn’t feel like it in the moment, but there
will be other deals and you will be in a better spot for not overpaying.
 Chapter 4 - Guest Interview: Warning
BRRRR is a Very Powerful But Advanced
Strategy.
Our guest doesn’t pull any punches in this interview. He comes out
swinging by acknowledging the BRRRR (Buy, Repair, Rent, Refi, Repeat) is
an advanced strategy. He highlights the key areas to get right and reduces
risk.

After reviewing the basics of the strategy, our guest goes into detail
about how he has used BRRRR to grow a big business. He talks about
having zero money in deals and the importance of working with a bank
early. He then explains why he wants to build a relationship with his lender.

Lastly our guest highlights how he improves his business and quality of
life via delegation and only focusing on the business aspects where he is
talented.

I found so many things to admire in this interview and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Some Strategies Sound Easy but Offer Real Risk

Sometimes the most dangerous things initially sound so simple.

Like our Guest, I consider BRRRR to be an advanced strategy because
it takes many variables strung together to produce the desired results. If
any one of the multiple variables doesn’t work, you can be left with
money in the deal. Thus, if you are doing this with no money down,
then watch out. Not only do you need to buy right, but you also need to
run a tight project and have no surprise expenses along the way. To
have zero money in the deal, you then need an appraisal to give you the
required upside to extract all the money via a bank loan.

Make Your Money When You Buy

 You make your money when you buy. I didn’t appreciate and,
frankly, didn’t even understand this until I was years into this business.
It sounded like a great saying, but I didn’t understand it until new
investors tried BRRRR and it didn’t work out for them as planned.
They didn’t buy the property right. They may have gotten a 5% or 10%
discount for cash, but they needed 20% or 30% to make sure they had
the room to execute the complete BRRRR lifecycle. Simply said, if you
do not buy your BRRRR property at the right price, no matter what you
do, you will not get all your money out during the refinance.

Remodel Surprises Happen So Do Not Cut Corners

When you execute the BRRRR strategy, you are likely picking up a
junk property. I’ve remodeled dozens of these. They all had surprises.
Some were cheap surprises. Some were very expensive surprises.

You might be tempted to cut corners during your remodel process

because you just don’t have money in the budget. Don’t do it! You
bought the investment. You must carry it through by always doing the
right thing.

Banks Can Be Your Best Friend

Banks offer the cheapest financing for Real Estate Investors so you
should create relationships with banks that are open to your strategy.
Our guest found a bank that would lend on BRRRR projects via
Commercial Loans and that helped him because of speed. Commercial
Loans will not have the best rates, and you won’t get the low rates
quoted for home loans. Understand the higher rates and build them into
your process.

As our guest shares, he built a track record with the bank that
allowed the bank to feel more comfortable and ultimately offer lower
terms and change minimums. Banks can be your best friend since you
need to exit your BRRRR projects via refinances most of the time.

Refinance Appraisal is Not the Same as Purchase Appraisal

 All appraisals are not created equal. For example, if you take a
purchase appraisal and a refi appraisal on the same property, you will
very likely get a different value. The reasons are many, but one thing
for certain is that the purchase appraisal is a contracted price between
seller and buyer to help influence the value. A refinance appraisal does
not have an agreement and only has the past purchase to go by. In a
BRRRR project, the purchase price was likely low because you bought
it right.

Zero Money in the Deal is Possible

No money down. Infinite return. Build a portfolio of cash flow

rentals with no money. I can hear all the gurus pitching their twist on
this sexy strategy. They will undoubtedly try and make it sound easy,
but as you will see in this interview, it is not easy.

Can you execute the BRRRR strategy and have no money in a deal?
Absolutely.

Do I recommend you go into a project expecting to have zero

dollars in the deal at the end? No.

I don’t like the idea of preying on new investors that see BRRRR as
the next great “No Money Down” strategy. I want new investors to
focus and execute daily in their area of choice. This will allow them to
learn the market and understand what a deal is and what a deal isn’t.

What Are You Good At? What Should You Delegate?

If you are a full-time employee, you frankly don’t have a choice

because you must delegate to execute BRRRR projects. However, as
our guest will highlight, you should also delegate if you are investing
full time. Your focus should be on securing capital and finding deals
instead of managing tenants and projects.
 I find it far more fun to focus on what I am good at and what brings
in the most money than focusing on the day-to-day headaches of tenant
management.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Invests in Saint Louis, Missouri
Leverage BRRRR Method for 5+ Years to Build Business
Owns 50+ Rental Properties
Built Relationship with Local Bank to Support BRRRR Exit (Refi)
Leverages Commercial Loan Product with 20 Year Amortization
Consistent BRRRR Projects Not as Easy as it Looks
Refinance Appraisals far More Conservative than Purchase Appraisals
Goal on Every Project is to be in No More than 75% of ARV
Understand Maximum Available Offer (MAO)
Banks Get Easier to Work with after Several Successful Projects
Advice – Never Forget BRRRR is an Advanced Strategy that Looks
Easy but Has Plenty of Downside Risks
In Their Own Words

Guest: BRRRR is an advanced strategy. You need to know the pros the
cons of BRRRR. This is a strategy that I wouldn't recommend for a complete
newbie with no money and no skills. It is just too easy to lose money if you
are not careful.
 Zuber: I was happy to hear our wildly successful guest start the
BRRRR conversation here. Sometimes in Real Estate an idea or
strategy takes on a life of its own, and everyone thinks they can do it.
You think, “Heck! If they can do it, I can do it because I am smarter,
better or more skilled than they are.”

To be clear BRRRR is a wonderful strategy and one I used a ton

from 2011 – 2014. It was like printing money as the market was setup
for it, and I saw inventory disappearing and prices rising long before
anyone else did.

Unfortunately, most market cycles will never offer up the easy

strategies of that time frame and thus you must really hone your skills,
your deal making and your numbers if you want to repeatedly be
successful with BRRRR strategies. For example, did you know a Refi
Appraisal is far more conservative than a Purchase Appraisal?

Guest: BRRRR is an advanced strategy that I use as a Real Estate

Investor to rapidly acquire a lot of properties with little to no money out of
my pocket. To be clear it may take money out of pocket during the BRRRR
timeline, but the goal is that at the point of refinance, I have zero of my
dollars in the deal.

Zuber: The BRRRR strategy is sexy. Who doesn’t want to own

cash flow rental properties that take zero dollars of your own money?
Sound too good to be true? The strategy is advanced, but it is possible if
everything lines up.

The strategy is simple. You buy a house in rough shape. You fix it
up, lease it at market, and then refinance with a bank. You get all your
money back because you created value.

However, too many people have jumped on the idea not realizing
how hard it really is to pull out 100% of your original capital. It is easy
to get 85% or more of your capital back but tough to get 100%,
especially in a hot market where the original buy price is inflated by too
much competition.
 It is a great strategy that everyone should learn, but don’t go into it
thinking you will always get 100% of your capital back. It’s great when
it happens, but please do not count on it.

Guest: The number one thing you must do is buy your properties at a
discount. If you are buying a property at retail or close to retail, it will be
nearly impossible to exit the deal with zero money invested. To utilize this
strategy to its fullest, you must buy with a significant discount to after-repair
value so the refinance can repay your purchase and repair costs which might
be 100% borrowed. If not, you will leave money in the deal and your lenders
will not be happy.

Zuber: The BRRRR strategy keys on several aspects. The first and
most important is buying at a significant discount. In a hot market with
lots of competition it is going to be really tough to get a deal and the
required discount to make BRRRR strategy easy to execute.

Next, you must run a tight and efficient remodel process and not
uncover surprises that blow up your budget. Then you must get a Refi
Appraisal that is fair and not too conservative. Please know most new
investors are surprised at the conservative value of refinance appraisals.
Don’t expect full value.

Guest: When you buy at a discount and then rehab the property, add
value without breaking the bank. A general rule of thumb is this: I don’t
want to spend more than 15-25% of purchase price. I am looking for lipstick
remodels, not full gut projects or ones that need room additions.

Zuber: The hardest thing for new investors to understand is what

type of remodel works with BRRRR and which ones will likely blow
up the bank with surprises and cost overruns.

Ideally you want simple remodels that run a simple process like
trash out, rip out flooring and countertops, replace flooring and
countertops, paint. Then—Boom!—you are done.

If you find a remodel that needs a brand new bathroom and kitchen,
it can work, but you can also find bigger surprises that add to cost
 without increasing the value of your property. Once you start removing
walls and moving plumbing, you are asking for cost overruns.

The best BRRRR properties smell terrible but only need cleaning,
new flooring, paint and the little things like switches and door handles.

Guest: My business is based on running lots of BRRRR projects at the

same time. This means I must have solid relationships with my bankers, and
I must understand what they are looking for and what they offer. I leverage
portfolio loans that my bank keeps. They have 20-year amortization and are
considered commercial loans with interest rates in the 6% area. My banker
makes my business go. That relationship is critical.

Zuber: You can do big business with BRRRR. It can be like an

assembly line. However, never forget that the most important part of
BRRRR is that last “R”: Refinance. Take the lead like our guest and
work on a banking relationship that could serve as your refinance
partner.

What do they want to see? How much reserves do they want? What
type of low product will they offer? You will not get endless 30-year
loans with the best rates. You will need commercial or portfolio loans
that have higher rates and different terms.

Do not run your BRRRR numbers assuming you will get crazy-low,
30-year money.

Guest: Real Estate Investing is a wonderful business. The cool thing

about it is, the harder I work, the luckier I am going to get. Simply said, the
more focus and execution you have, the more deals and opportunities you
will see.

Zuber: I agree with this statement one hundred percent! The more I
look for deals, the more I network with rock stars in my market. The
more I told people what I am looking to buy, the luckier I got.

My whole program starts with focus and daily execution. I don’t

want new investors getting distracted and bouncing all over the place.
 Find a market, find your niche, and get to work on understanding an
average deal.

What are you looking for? Can you tell me? “I am looking for a
deal” is a terrible answer. Your answer should be as specific as “I am
looking for a single-family home in this zip code, 3 or 4 bedrooms, 2
baths with attached garage. I prefer it to be between 1,200 and 1,500 sq
feet.” Be specific and hit that search every day.

Guest: The cool thing about the BRRRR strategy is that is simply boils
down to this: I want to be all in on a property at no more than 75% of
appraised value. I shoot for 75% of appraised value because that is what my
bank will loan me, and that is what I will use to pay back my lenders. Again,
the strategy is simple yet advanced as it offers plenty of ways to lose money
and miss your target of 75%.

Zuber: I agree. The BRRRR strategy comes down to being in a

property for no more than 75% of the new appraised value. The books
and YouTube gurus make this sound simple. Trust me, it is not.

You basically have to find a seller who doesn’t want to do the

remodel because of lack of cash or experience. Then you need to
execute a remodel where you stay on budget and suffer no surprises.
Lastly, you need a lender who will loan long-term money on an asset
that has an appraised value 30% more than the last purchase price.

This last wrinkle is where new investors often fall down. Here is the
deal, sometimes banks want to lend, and they are easy to deal with.
Sometimes they don’t want to lend, and they are hard to deal with.
Network with banks to make sure they are ready to refinance your
BRRRR projects. I recommend showing them pictures and before and
after videos. They need to see all the value you are creating to feel
confident in giving you a loan on a much higher value.

Guest: Simply said, I want to buy a lot of these properties. I don't want
to spend all day working on one. I'm going to hire someone else to do my
renovation, my rehab. I'm going to hire someone else to do my property
management.
 Zuber: Once you have the basics of BRRRR down and you have
relationships with funding sources for the refinance, it is time to get
busy and start buying. The BRRRR strategy can be a series of houses
done in a row if you work full time. If you want to make it a big
business, you can dive in and make it a big business with multiple
projects and teams.

I recommend new investors start with one and then do a second one
before they ever contemplate doing multiple projects at one time. As we
said above, the BRRRR strategy is an advanced strategy and not nearly
as easy as all the books make it out to be.

Like our guest, I focus on finding deals and securing capital. I don’t
do the rehab. I don’t do the property management. I don’t thrive in
either of those areas.

Guest: In order for this strategy to work, there are two essentials. The
first we already discussed: you must buy at a discount. The second is that
you must remodel to add value. If you spend $1, you want the value to go up
$2.

Zuber: Buying at a discount is the most important point. Adding

value through your remodel is definitely second. That does not give you
permission to cut corners. That is never ok. If it is broken or needs to be
repaired, always do the right thing.

I love the recommendation of looking for two dollars of value in

every dollar spent. It is amazing what can add value to a house. You can
make some big changes with $10K-$15K

Running a project that is full of value add sounds easy, but it’s not.
Remember that old houses often hide surprises that cost big money. If
you find a problem, repair it, and move on. It is never okay to cut
corners just because no one is looking. I believe in karma and bad
karma adds up.

Guest: When I started with my bank, they wanted to see four-to-six

months seasoning. It slowed down the process for us. However, as the
relationship was built, the rules changed for me. The lender requires only 30
days of seasoning.

Zuber: Banks and lenders are an interesting cast of characters to

watch as they seem to ebb and flow with the market until one day they
abruptly change. I have seen banks execute one set of purchase or
refinance requirements for years and change overnight and say, “We no
longer do those loans.” Of course, this can work the opposite way
where loans can become easier to obtain.

Since our guest focused on building a relationship and keeping up

to date with the bank’s needs, he received good treatment. Create
relationships with banks. Learn what they want to lend on and what
they don’t. Share your goals. Show pictures or video. See if they want
to play ball with you. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t, but at least you
know. The worst case is they say, “No. We don’t do those type of loans
at the moment.”

Guest: Lots of people don’t have their numbers right with the BRRRR
strategy. That hurts private or hard money lenders because their money is
left in the deal after a bank refinance. If you don’t have the money, a lender
can force you to sell the property to recoup their investment. This is not fun
because your goal was to build a portfolio of rentals and not to sell flips.

Zuber: My greatest fear with new investors believing that BRRRR

is a simple strategy that anyone can execute over and over again with
no money is that they are likely to get caught with someone else’s
money in the deal at the end. If you borrow money from someone,
execute the remodel, rent, and then get a disappointing refinance value,
what are you going to do? Where do you find the money to pay off your
lender who trusted you?

I have heard many investors say, “My refinance value is terrible.

My comps say it is worth 20-40K more!” Remember this—a refinance
appraisal is a lot more conservative than a purchase appraisal. A
purchase appraisal has a willing buyer and a willing seller agreeing on a
price. A refinance appraisal has a purchase record from three months
ago at a lower price. The appraiser is going to be conservative. Chances
 are that when you begin, you will be disappointed by the appraisal
value.

Guest: I like to leverage private lenders instead of hard money lenders

when I can. I can negotiate with my private lender if I come up $5K-$10K
short on a refinance. Perhaps I create a small second on a property or agree
to pay off in chunks in a few months. Private lenders are simply more
flexible than hard money lenders if you get caught short.

Zuber: Getting to the end of BRRRR project and being surprised

by a low appraisal or cost overruns is not fun. It means you leave lender
money in the deal. It makes perfect sense to prefer private money
lenders over a hard money lender. Either way, you need to make every
effort to return capital as promised to your lender if you hope to be in
the business long term.

When you leverage private money, you must understand that you
must value their money over all else. I will lose money on a deal rather
than not perform or not give back 100% of a private lender’s money on
a deal.

Some new investors think, “It’s only five or ten thousand less than I
promised! They should be happy!” Don’t kid yourself. If you promised
$80K in 6 Months, and now you hand them $75K and a promise for the
other $5K, you will lose your lender and reputation.

Value I Took from Interview

BRRRR is an Amazing yet Advanced Strategy:

Someone had to say it, and I am glad our guest was brave enough to
put it out there. BRRRR is an amazing but advanced strategy. It can
lead to amazing returns, but it is not nearly as easy as the books and
gurus make it sound. There are simply too many points where issues
can arise. If you borrow all the money, you could get caught very short
at refinance time.

All investors should learn the strategy because some properties just
scream BRRRR while others are better left to flippers who get in and
 out quick.

The BRRRR strategy can absolutely let you get into cash flow
rentals with no or very little money in the deal, but it is not easy as the
books make it look. Some markets are better suited for BRRRR. A
competitive market is not the best market for BRRRR because it will be
tough to buy at a discount.

Buy at a Discount and Add Value during Remodel:

There are two musts in BRRRR. The first is that you must buy at a
discount. We are not talking a 5%-10% discount. We are talking a
significant discount which is hard to do in a seller’s market with
seemingly endless demand.

Second you need to be able to add value during the remodel. Let
your mindset be to spend one dollar and earn 2 dollars in value. This
again sounds easy but properties you can buy at a discount are hard
enough to find and often come with hidden or expensive repairs that
don’t add value but must be done to make sure property is safe and up
to standards.

Private Verses Hard Money

A key element to the BRRRR strategy is how to get into the deal
initially. Do you have the cash and can make that investment? Do you
know friends and families that want to invest with you and thus are
private money sources for you? Or do you need to go to a hard money
provider that will charge points and high rates?

When you are getting started with BRRRR, I recommend folks look
to private money sources first if you don’t have the cash or don’t want
to invest your own cash. I recommend this because I have seen too
many first-time BRRRR investors get blown up by low refinance
appraisals and left with tens of thousands of dollars in the deal. If it is a
private money source, you can probably work something out. If it’s a
hard money provider, you are in a tough spot which could mean you
need to sell the property to pay back the lender. That defeats your goal.
 If hard money is your only option, then be extra careful and look for
ways you could find $10K-$15K if the refinance doesn’t work out as
expected.

Banking Relationships for the Refinance is Critical

The most important part of the BRRRR strategy is the refinance

step. That is the most important step because that is where you get your
money back, pay off your initial lenders, and you start making cash
flow via a rental property.

I recommend new investors reach out to lenders and start

conversations early. Share your goals, your plans, your team, and your
credit worthiness. Ask questions about loan limits, terms, and seasoning
periods. Never hide anything from your lender as it only takes one bad
experience to ruin a relationship. I share videos, pictures, plans, and
surprises as I want them to understand the entire picture.

Leverage a Team and Stay in your Lane

Real Estate Investing and the BRRRR strategy offer up lots of

activities and roles for people to play. Some new investors incorrectly
think they need to play all the roles to save money or learn the process.
Being engaged in the process the first time is critical, but as you
progress with the strategy, I suggest you find your lane and let others
find theirs.

My strategy is that I secure capital and find deals. I let my

contractors do their thing. I let property management do their thing. I let
lenders do their thing. If you are like my guest and want to make the
BRRRR strategy a business, you can do that, but it will take letting go
and letting others do their thing.
 Chapter 5 - Guest Interview: Out-of-
State Investing to Set You Free by 45
In this interview I spoke to a young couple who has already mapped out
their financial future together. Their amazing plan for the next decade ends
with them selling their California home and moving to Tennessee. Their
Financial Freedom is being earned with out of state investing. They share
how they have done it successfully and highlight a few surprises along the
way.

The woman’s parents set her up for a great financial future by instilling
financial literacy early in life. The great book The Millionaire Next Door
caused Mom and Dad to remind her that what is theirs is theirs and what is
hers is hers. So empowering!

I found so many things to admire in this interview and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Out of State Investing Can Work Well

Our guest highlights how you can leverage Out-of-State Investing

to build a nice-sized Real Estate portfolio. They invested time and spent
many days in the market, meeting people and looking at Real Estate.
You cannot—or at least you should not—do out of state investing from
the comfort of your couch. The horror stories I have heard about out-of-
state investing comes from investors who did not get on a plane and go
spend time in the area. If you don’t want to go visit the area, why do
you want to put your money there?

Leave Your Thoughts on Price or Value at Home

When you choose to invest out of state, you usually do it because

your market is too expensive. If that is the case, do yourself a favor and
leave your thoughts about price and value at home. Otherwise, you will
 overpay and get a bad deal. Lots of Real Estate markets don’t have high
variability like many coastal markets. Don’t bring your local thoughts
to the out-of-state market. It doesn’t act like your home market.

Go Visit the Cities Where You Invest

Out-of-State Investing has no short cuts. There is not easy button.

There is extra work. Go to the cities you want to invest in. Maybe it can
be a place you like to vacation so some of your trips are at least partial
tax write offs. (Talk to your accountant.) You can choose to invest in a
market you never visit, but you will not learn the subtleties of the
market and you will miss out on areas that are improving. It takes local
knowledge and experience to be ahead of the curve on knowing which
areas are improving.

Cheap and High Rent Values

If you are choosing to invest out of state simply because it is cheap

and offers high rent multiples, you could be in for a surprise. Too many
new investors look at spreadsheets and don’t do all of the homework
required. They buy total money losers because the spreadsheet said it
was a great deal.

Here is a fact: spreadsheets lie. They are mathematical formulas that

have no basis in reality if they don’t account for real costs, turnover,
bad debt, and evictions. The spreadsheet can produce a beautiful
number that is 100% wrong. Please protect yourself and do the work
early so you can avoid mistakes and reap all the rewards offered by
cheaper Real Estate.

Starting Early Helps

My guest’s parents set her up right by talking about financial

literacy as she was growing up. Money and investing needs to be
discussed more. If families can’t talk about money amongst themselves,
 then what hope do our kids have of understanding that money is a tool
and you either master it or it masters you?

My hope after reading this chapter is you have a newfound desire

for teaching and talking about money and financial literacy in your
family. Our school systems don’t do it.

Discuss Financial Freedom Early

A young married couple already talking about financial

independence and retiring early is amazing. This couple is on a journey
together. They are sacrificing together, and they see the same future
together. Couples must talk about money and create a plan they both
can get behind if they want to climb the hill to financial freedom.

When you have these discussions early, you can see the future. In
their journey, they need to get to $9K a month positive cash flow, retire
at 45, and sell their California home and move to Tennessee. This is a
great vision they share. Even though it is years in the future, I can see it
coming for them.

Time between Purchases

They purchased six out of state properties in three years after

investing time for two years. Sometimes I see new investors who have a
little capital act like they have to spend everything in one weekend.
Shopping for Real Estate investments is not like a shop meet. It is ok to
buy one every few months. There is always another deal coming.

Being a first time out of state landlord is sure to bring up interesting

unplanned issues. It is far easier to handle these surprises with one unit
than it is with nine new properties bought in 30 days.

Please take your time. There is no rush. Buy one and let it sit for a
few months and then buy the next one.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
 Married and both have Full Time Jobs
Started Investing in 2016
Out of State Investors (Live in Southern California)
6 Properties, 7 Doors in 3 States
Looked at Cheap Properties First and was Warned Off by Boots on
Ground
Invest In Building Boots on Ground Support Structure
Parents Discussed Financial Literacy as She was Growing Up
Calculated Their Freedom # at Beginning of Journey
Goal to be Financially Free by 45
Advice – Live where you want but invest where numbers make sense

In Their Own Words

Guest: My husband and I invest out of state and live in California. We're
fairly new. We've been investing a little under three years, and during that
time we've acquired six properties—seven doors, because one of those is a
duplex.

Zuber: Sometimes you just need to go out of state. If you live in

expensive markets, it is easy to see the opportunities in other states. Our
guest invested the time to do the work and build relationships to make
sure they were protected. I am not a huge fan of out-of-state investing
as too many new investors cut corners, don’t invest the time, and never
go to their market. All are huge mistakes because if you take your
California prices to a Midwest market, you will overpay and the sharks
in the region will rip you off.

Acquiring six out-of-state properties in three years is a great

strategy. That’s one property every six months. That gives you time to
refine your numbers and build out your team. My goal is to make the
next investment better than the last. By picking up one deal every 6
months, you can really look for the deals and select the best fit.

Guest: We chose out of state for two reasons. The first reason is entry
point. Prices are so much cheaper and that means lower down payment. The
second is those rent-to-value ratios that you see in the Southeast and
Midwest are just beautiful. It was worth learning about those areas and
trying to have our money make money.

Zuber: Most new investors go out of state for those exact reasons.
They tell themselves, “Hey! I can buy more properties there since it
only takes $10K-$25K down payment instead of $100K like some
California markets. The rent-to-value ratios can be just too good to pass
up.

While I understand both of these critical points, I want to caution

new investors to do the work, get on a plan, and go visit the markets
and the areas. Markets are not all created equal. You can go broke
buying cheap homes in the wrong part of town, one that was supposed
to turn around and never did.

Lastly, there is a reason some markets offer higher rent ratios. They
are just harder to manage and require more management headaches.

Guest: It took us about two years to solidify our thoughts. Only a few
months after that, we bought an out-of-state property.

Zuber: I love the fact the couple spent two years learning about out
of state investing, different markets and everything that comes from
being a long-distance landlord. Too many people spend two days or
maybe two weeks before they plunk down $40K on a little house in the
Mid-West.

I have heard new investors brag, “I just bought a house for less than
I bought my car.” That new landlord might be setup for some nasty
surprises that spring into action via tenant and property headaches.

If you don’t get your butt on a plan and go visit your markets before
you buy, you are destined to lose money eventually. You will get taken
advantage of by someone in that market. I can’t stress this enough.

After this couple spent two years learning, they acted. If you don’t
take action, all of the time is wasted that you spent on research and
planning.
 Guest: Originally, I searched for real bargains, but our agent on the
ground saved us. He let us know that our expectations for some cheaper
areas were misguided as rental collection and issues would be extremely
challenging.

Zuber: You must have trustworthy boots on the ground that will tell
you bad news. In this case, their agent saved them from huge mistakes
that would cripple new investors. Think about it. You are home on your
couch and looking at properties in other states and—Boom!—you find
lots of great deals. They look cute. In your market, the house would be
$500K! You think if it is $500K here, then how bad can it be there for
$50K or $75K?

Some properties are worth zero to out-of-state investors. The

headaches and out-of-pocket expenses would not be worth it. This
couple’s agent could have seen the promise of a quick commission
check and said, “Sure! The neighborhood is on the cusp of turning
around” or “We need investors like you to help us regentrify this great
family neighborhood.” When an agent says this, I am skeptical.

When you are investing out of state, you need people who will tell
you bad news. You need people who will be direct and not look for
ways to tell half-truths or hold back on questions not asked.

Guest: My parents did such a good job trying to make me financially

literate by the time I entered adulthood. I had mutual funds. They taught me
about compounding interest and how your money doubles maybe every eight
years.

Zuber: Shout out to Mom and Dad for teaching financial literacy. I
wish more parents took on the challenge of talking about money,
investing, taxes, income, etc. Being financially literate at such a young
age means you will avoid so many mistakes that set up young people
for financial failure and life in the Rat Race.

One of my weekly experts loves to say, “You either master money

or money will master you.” I couldn’t agree more. If you are a parent or
 will be a parent, I challenge you to teach your children financial
literacy. It will help them for life. It will help your grandchildren, too.

Guest: My parents liked the book The Millionaire Next Door. Part of that
book tells how they taught their children, “What’s theirs is theirs and what's
mine is mine, and you will work for yours.” I learned debt responsibility
early in life.

Zuber: The Millionaire Next Door is such an awesome book. I have

read it many times and was fortunate enough to interview the author.
Having an autographed copy is one of my true treasures.

I find it hilarious that the parents focused on that part of the book
because I imagine the conversation over dinner. “Now, honey, you
know your mom and I love you, but I want you to know that our money
is ours and your money is yours. Got it?”

Those conversation between parents and children are empowering.

You do not want to create dependent kids that still count on you when
they are 40. If you don’t know what I mean, read the book. It’s filled
with these sad stories.

Guest: If we choose to work another job, that will be great, but we

envision ourselves retiring or being able to retire at 45. We're working
towards that financial goal. I'm a nursing supervisor, and my husband is an
operations manager. Without Real Estate Investing we would have to work
until 65.

Zuber: Setting a goal of being financial free by 45 is admirable.

Having the option to work is wonderful and provides confidence.
Understanding that rental Real Estate is the best way to build financial
freedom is tremendous.

One Rental at a Time is more than a great Real Estate book (I know
—it’s a very biased opinion) as it is a mindset I hope is picked up by
more investors. Getting to four rental properties is amazing. If you
choose to add more, that is a wonderful choice, too.
 Choosing to work 40 hours a week for 40 years to live on 40% is an
option, too. If you choose it, that’s great, but you don’t have to choose
it.

Guest: Coming from California, I was naïve about some things. When
you invest in new areas like the Midwest and Southeast, you have real
seasons. You must consider seasons for best rental rates that you can get and
when the highest amount of people are looking for properties. Also, seasons
create expenses that we just don’t have in California.

Zuber: Coming from an expensive market does not only mean your
price points and understanding of value is off. It could also mean you
don’t have appreciation for the little things like weather.

As you research and learn other markets, make sure you ask
questions about weather or other local customs for the area. For
example, who usually pays for deicing, or who is responsible for
protecting the pipes so they don’t freeze and burst?

In a new market, you need to research the expenses and the prices.
Your hometown numbers don’t translate to a different market in a
different geographical location.

Guest: You really do need to know your area. You can’t just go invest
somewhere because they have great ratios. You have to know the
neighborhood. You need a good property manager. I don't care where you go
and what the numbers look like. Without a good property manager, a great
area can lose money with bad management.

Zuber: Out of state investing is risky, and it’s impossible without

good property management.

Out of state investors must have trusted boots on the ground which
is often a local property manager. For an out of state investor, your
property manager must be a key team member and they must
communicate both good and bad news as it occurs.

Frankly, a bad property manager could make the best out of state
market a total money pit. A great property manager could make a bad
 market profitable. Interview several property managers. Ask for
referrals. Keep networking with other local investors as you will need a
great property manager.

Guest: I think our Freedom Number is somewhere around $9K per

month. We want our house paid off. When we sell our house in California
and move to Tennessee, the cost of houses will be minimal in comparison.
We will free up our nest egg after we leave California.

Zuber: Couples who understand and discuss their Financial

Freedom Number are destined for great things. Talking about money is
not easy even if you are in a committed relationship. If you want to get
on the path to financial freedom, you will need to get on the same page
as your significant other. If you don’t, it will be a frustrating journey
that ultimately leads nowhere.

Executing their plan to exit from California and enter a tax-friendly

state will give them a nice chunk of change to buy for cash as they
lower other expenses and enjoy their new home.

Guest: Financial freedom for me just equates to time freedom and

freedom to choose how we spend our time. Freedom with time and my
family is my goal.

Zuber: Financial Freedom to me is about time and choices. With

financial freedom, I could get a job if I wanted or I could go take a nap
if I wanted. I could choose to start a YouTube Channel from scratch or
buy an office building and create the hub and document my process
with the great online course called How to Get Started One Rental at a
Time.

I didn’t know if I could retire at 45 since I am such a Type A

personality. After a few weeks of stress, I found my groove in trying
every day to help thousands of people improve their financial futures.
We are nearly at 1,000 days in a row with at least 4 pieces of original
content. That’s right, I’ve done it seven days a week. Check out my
YouTube channel called One Rental at a Time.
 Guest: I could have said, “You only live once,” and spent all my money,
but I went the other way with it. I thought, “How can I multiply my money
and retire early and just have time with family?”

Zuber: Too many people chose to live life with the YOLO
philosophy. Frankly, I didn’t know any better from 22-30 because I
didn’t understand money, the Rat Race, or how I could sacrifice now
and be retired by 35 instead of 45.

Many adults are never closer to financial freedom than the day they
graduated high school. That’s sad. What did you live on or need at 18?
What do you need now? Did you buy stuff you thought you needed?
Don’t worry you are not alone. The Rat Race preys off our stupid
decisions. Then we work to pay them off only to buy other stupid
things. The cycle just continues. Instead, talk about financial freedom
and plan for it, and you will get there sooner.

Value I Took from Interview

Key to Out-of-State Investing:

If you are going to invest in rental properties out of state, please

make sure you have someone on your team that is willing to tell you
bad news. This guest had a Real Estate agent who protected the investor
from cheap properties that were bad deals.

Spend the time learning the out of state market and meeting
resources on the ground. The more you network in the market, the
better deal flow you will see over time.

Number One Team Member

The key to investing out of state is making sure you have a good
property manager on your team. There is a good chance that your
performance in an out-of-state market will be based on the performance
of your property manager.

A good property manager will find the best tenants, knows when to
keep a property vacant instead of filling it with a warm body, and will
 manage repairs in an efficient manner. Finding a good property
manager on the ground is best done by networking with investors and
realtors.

Who Will Tell You Bad News?

When I was running a sales team, I had a saying: “Bad news doesn’t
get better with time.” This meant that whenever bad news happened, I
want to hear about it immediately as that gave me the best chance to fix
or plan around it. This thinking should also apply to Property Managers
as they should call, text or email when bad things happen.

Some people don’t like discussing bad news. They look for the
angles or twists that make it seem okay. Maybe they want to avoid
being the person to deliver bad news. You can’t avoid bad news in REI.
You have to solve the problem.

Mom and Dad Inspire Financial Literacy

When our guest shared the story about her parents teaching
financial literacy, I said, “Yes!” Tackle the topic of financial literacy
with your children. I believe our guest was set on the path to a better
financial future because her parents started conversations about money
and investing early in life.

Parents and Millionaire Next Door

If you haven’t read The Millionaire Next Door, do yourself a favor

and get a copy. The chapter on talking about millionaires and their kids
is particularly beneficial. As our guest highlighted, her parents made it
clear “What is theirs is theirs, and what is hers was hers.” This is
particularly interesting when you realize that many children of
millionaires are left dependent on handouts from mom and dad.
 Chapter 6 - Guest Interview: 26-Year-
Old, Dave Ramsey and the FIRE
Movement
I loved this interview because it showed me that Generation Z and
Millennials can get on the Property Ladder and start investing. It also
showed me the importance of producing content for Instagram and YouTube,
as those generations are learning about money and investing on those
platforms.

This couple impressed me with their desire for Financial Freedom and
Retiring Early. At 26 I was just interested in the next raise and next thing I
could buy on debt. (I was just dumb.) Our conversation around speed of
acquisition, debt and Dave Ramsey was very eye opening.

The conversations around kids or children caused me to reflect and share

many stories I had and have encountered with other investors.

The lessons from this younger couple are impressive and priceless. May
you be inspired by what follows in the same way I was inspired.

FIRE Movement

Financial Independence Retire Early is a wonderful movement. Any

movement that gets people thinking about the future and delayed
gratification is awesome, especially when our society is filled with
instant gratification and easy access to credit.

The Rat Race is real, and the FIRE movement helps people
understand the wheel is big. Once you know the size, you can work to
reduce it and eventually earn your freedom. I chose Real Estate
Investing as my means of earning freedom, but there are other methods
to finding financial freedom.
Thoughts on Debt

Debt is a tool and a four-letter word that most people have no idea
how to use. Debt and the inability to delay gratification generally keep
people in the Rat Race their whole life as they let keeping up with a
lifestyle eat up any raises or boost in income.

Since debt is a tool, it can be used to build financial freedom. You

can build a business or you can build a Real Estate portfolio. I would
not be financially free and retired early without millions of dollars of
debt.

Always remember debt is a tool. You will choose to use it correctly

or incorrectly.

When to Pay off Debt

If you have tons of consumer debt—or what I call a negative net

worth—I suggest looking up Dave Ramsey. He can help you raise your
net worth to zero. If you want to build a significant net worth, you are
likely going to need to buy assets that produce income and positive cash
flow.

Debt runs in cycles if you use it correctly. Early in your career, you
will need to accumulate debt and have your assets leveraged. As you
get to the end of your investing career, you can start to pay off debt and
hold a few assets free and clear.

15- or 30-year Mortgage

There may be some life reasons to adopt 15-year mortgages, but

most investors should choose 30-year mortgages for greatest flexibility.
If you want to take the positive cash flow, and pay extra on the
mortgage, go for it.

Unfortunately, being a landlord or Real Estate Investor means you

sign up for uneven expenses. Surprises happen. A smaller mortgage
payment that a 30-year mortgage provides can help you handle those
surprises.
 I have advised a few investors to get 15-year mortgages, but they
have a few traits. In each case the investor was over 50, had high
income, put down 50%, and they wanted the properties to be nearly
paid off in 10 years so they could retire.

Freedom Number (+Kids)

Have you calculated your Financial Freedom Number? Have you

considered what kids might do to that equation if you had another one?
Children or the desire for children can provide a tremendous motivation
to get focused and get to work on your financial freedom.

If you can, I suggest involving your children in your investing, as

we all need to do a better job helping the next generation understand
money, investing, spending, taxes, etc.

Networking

I believe networking is an extremely valuable skill. The more

people you know and the more people that know you and what you are
looking for, the more deals you will find. Networking has brought me
over fifty deals, millions of dollars in private money, and bailed me out
of sticky situations as I was repairing or remodeling units.

After learning your market, meet one new person a week. It will go
a long way in helping grow your portfolio and your business.

Can You Go Too Fast?

Most people I encounter go way too slow. Some people get excited
and jump at an opportunity and then jump again and pretty soon they
look up and have 4 or 5 properties, but cracks start to show.

Yes, you can go too fast. If you add multiple units and you are not
ready with your finances, your reserves, and your processes, you could
be crushed. Take time between property number one and property
number two so you are ready and able to tackle property number three.
 Enjoy.

Guest Details
Dave Ramsey Fan
Northern Indiana, town of 28,000
Married in their Late 20’s
Frequent Bigger Pockets Reader
Went from 0 to 4 Properties Quick
Did 15/20 Year Loans not 30 Year
Did a Portfolio Loan to do 4th Property or Big Fixer
Current Home will Become Next Rental
Struggling with Debt Pay Down Idea and Growth with Safe Leverage
Advice – Understand Conservative Leverage
In Their Own Words

Guest: We are both 26, and my husband was already complaining about
his knees and back pain from his day job. I'm thinking, “This is terrible. We
are in our twenties. It's going to go downhill quick if we don't figure
something else out, how are we're going to have fun when we're old if he is
broken from hard physical labor.”

Zuber: The Rat Race is real. If you want to work 40 hours for 40
years, you can do that. However, you will get what you get. In their
case it would have been a husband with lots of aches and pains from
manual labor.

I applaud our guest for taking the time to ask if there is a better way.
She asked, “What can I do today to make tomorrow better?” They have
found rental properties. This improves their chances of not needing to
work 40 years in a physically demanding field.

If you love your job, that is great, but that does not mean you
shouldn’t think about the future and get ready for different options.

Guest: We're both kind of entrepreneurial, but we are not inventors. We

were not going to make anything crazy and sell it. We asked ourselves,
“What can we do?” We found Real Estate to be a very tangible thing. It led
us to learn about the world of Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE).
We started reading more and more and took action by paying off debt and
buying houses instead of expensive and wasteful toys and things.

Zuber: The Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE) movement

is interesting as it highlights living on less, creating passive income and
retiring early. These are all worthwhile endeavors. Paying off debt
seems to be the beginnings for lots of FIRE followers. Unfortunately,
Real Estate Investing is a business or strategy that requires debt as very
few folks have tons of money lying around, especially when they are
26.

Guest: We are really new to Real Estate, and we are excited as it's
always been my husband's dream. As we started out, I realized that Real
Estate is more than spreadsheets and running numbers as you look at
properties.

Zuber: The statement is true, but I want to highlight something

vital. Real Estate Investing should be spreadsheet based because it is
about the numbers and not “feelings.” It is about your return on capital
or yield instead of “I like the architecture and school district.”

I lived in my spreadsheet the first three years of my business, but

my business didn’t take off until I started networking and growing my
contacts. “Your network is your net worth” is a common phrase in the
Real Estate world. Don’t think you can be an investor locked in your
room playing with the spreadsheet. That is okay the first 6 months as
you learn your market, but go out and meet people. You never know
where a deal will come from, and you never know who will help you
when you need it.

Guest: I don't know if we got carried away or just excited and rushed
out, but we bought four houses in a year and a half. We moved quickly to
buying these houses. I had talked to people on Instagram, messaged people,
and read a few books and a bunch of blogs. We were self-taught by the
internet.

Zuber: Sometimes when people get excited by Real Estate

Investing and the possibilities, they just take the leap and go all in. I do
 not recommend that at all. It might work out, but it could also wind up
in a big mess. Real Estate Investing offers ways to make money and
some big ways to lose money.

I have no issue with a new investor buying their first investment

whenever they are ready, but I do have a problem when you quickly
buy the second or third or fourth. There are good odds that one of the
four will be a mistake and offer challenges that add stress to the other
three.

I generally recommend 3-6 months between your first and second

investment and another 3-4 months before your third. You need time to
see if you made mistakes, uncover unexpected challenges, and like the
feel of being a landlord.

Following people on social media is great, but a lot of the

influencers are out their selling stuff and not really doing this business.
They sell the sizzle and not the steak, if you will.

Getting started is certainly better than never writing an offer, but I

am afraid quickly adding four houses could add a lot of stress that
would have been reduced with a slower acquisition pace.

Guest: Dave Ramsey followers are scared of 30-year loans, so we got a

20-year loan and considered 15 years because that’s what Dave said to do.

Zuber: Dave Ramsey has helped millions of people get their

financial house in order. However, going from negative net worth to
zero shouldn’t be that hard. I have helped people go from zero to
millions of dollars in net worth.

Dave Ramsey’s aversion to cheap 30-year debt on positive cash

flow rentals is some of the worst investing advice I have ever heard.
Buying an investment house and spending 15-20 years paying it off
before you buy another one is just crazy. I would still be working if I
followed this terrible advice.

If you want to go from negative net worth to zero, follow Dave. If

you have bigger goals of positive net worth, there is a better way.
 Guest: In our third property, we had to rip off the roof. To get the rent
we wanted out of that property, we needed to spend big, and it would have to
sit vacant for a while. Then we found the fourth house, and we probably
bought it sooner than we should have, but we wanted it.

Zuber: When you go too fast with Real Estate Investing, you are
very likely to run into problems that add stress to the portfolio. This
couple went a little too fast. I am sure it will work out, but it will be
stressful no doubt.

In this case, the couple is doing a lot of the work themselves and
this creates longer timelines. Even with small mortgages, this delay
means lost rent and negative cash flow. A large expense like tearing off
a roof is not cheap and should be calculated in the make-ready cost I
reference in my course.

Sometimes you need to go slow to go fast and to make sure you are
ready for the next steps. Banks will lend to you if you have the credit
and the down payment. They won’t be impressed if you are buying too
fast.

Guest: Dave Ramsey says, “Pay off debt ASAP,” but what about you?
When do you pay off debt and at what point do you buy more units? We
don’t know what to do.

Zuber: If your goal is to go from negative net worth to zero then

follow Dave. If your goal is to go from zero to some large number with
Real Estate Investing, I suggest finding someone else. His advice is
terrible.

My general rules are never bet on appreciation, never buy negative

cash flow, nd don’t follow rules of thumb like the 1% rule without
understanding their dark side.

I have more rules based on your phase of life. If you are early in
your investment journey, then every investment property should have
leverage and debt. If you are or are close to retirement, then I suggest
 you look at paying off a couple of things. I saw the last crash up close
and personal. Having a few things free and clear is pretty awesome.

Guest: What do we do now? Do we pay off our debt on what we have

now? Or do we look to go bigger? Do we take the equity and leverage up?

Zuber: As new investors who are 26, I think the answer is pretty
clear. Get as much cheap 30-year debt as you can that allows for
conservative growth. Cheap 30-year money today will feel like gold in
a few years because I suspect rates will rise.

The first step is to sit down as a couple and calculate your Freedom
Number. As part of the FIRE movement, you have likely thought about
the Freedom Number. If the minimum is $5K, then you work to build
positive cash flow to $6-7K and focus on debt pay down or debt
elimination.

Real Estate Investing is a debt business. The better you use debt, the
faster you can earn your freedom.

Guest: How fast is too fast to scale our Real Estate portfolio? Do we
need to pause and get more comfortable with debt?

Zuber: Buying four homes in your first year is too much for most
new investors. I like to see time between first and second purchase. As
you move forward, you certainly can accelerate your time frames
between purchases. I will buy multiple properties in the same week, if
the numbers work.

I want new investors to succeed. Sometimes they can buy too much
property and create headaches for the entire portfolio without even
knowing it. One big expense can create focus and, thus, loss of focus on
other properties.

Guest: Have you ever done seller financing or owner carry off of the
MLS? I've always debated that as a strategy. How do you find the right kind
of property or seller?
 Zuber: Seller financing is a tremendous strategy. I have done them
on MLS based deals, but they are pretty rare. To make it work, you
generally need to find the right seller with the right motivation.

The ones I have completed generally have the following

characteristics. The owner owns the property free and clear. Rents are
under market. The seller wants to reduce taxes and maintain income.
When you find these, you have the perfect opportunity.

Unfortunately, most Real Estate agents don’t understand seller

financing because they are use to either cash or loans. That is where
they get paid their commission. I have had agents tell me I can’t do
seller financing, which is just wrong and a sign I need to talk to
someone else.

I suggest networking to find seller financed deals. Maybe do direct

market to owners who have had properties over 20 years? Networking
with agents is great, but lots of agents don’t understand investors. You
will have a few frustrating conversations. Just move on and let it go
because it’s not your job to educate every agent. Your job is to find
deals.

Guest: Investors who follow FIRE are interesting and seem to live
different lifestyles. We have a seven-month-old baby, and she has changed
everything. Children change things.

Zuber: Children do change things. They are these little gifts that
bring more work yet add clarity and raise your ambition to make money
since they cost a lot. A funny thing often happens after you have kids.
You find yourself asking how you can have more children and how you
can make more money.

The answer is buy assets that produce income and have tax benefits
like rental properties. Another recommendation I have for new parents
is to buy a rental property for every child before he or she is two. This
gives you at least 15 years or more for mortgage pay down and for
inflation to raise the value. When the child is 18, you might be able to
pay for their college.
 Think about that. When they turn 18, you can give them a rental
property and say, “Do what you want with it. This can be your college
fund, your seed money for your business, or the start of investing so
you never need a full-time job.”

Guest: I read your book and I follow a couple of other people that talk
about Real Estate as a relationship business. I networked with my first local
person yesterday.

Zuber: A big error early in my career was allowing myself to stay

behind my computer too long. I kept telling myself the answer and the
magic lived in Excel.

I suspect the first 6 months were time well spent, as I learned my

market, rents, and basic expenses. The next two years were a mistake
because I wasn’t meeting one new person each week.

Real Estate is a people business. The more people you know, the
better you will do. However, the real score is how many people know
you. More specifically, how many people know you and what you like
to buy? Think about that for a second.

Value I Took from the Interview

Dave Ramsey and FIRE Movement:

Dave Ramsey and the Financial Independence Retire Early

movement are wonderful because they help individuals understand that
they have to get their money right.

Unfortunately, both treat debt like a bad four-letter word when in

reality, if used correctly, debt could be the thing that sets you free. Debt
is the only way I was able to replace two six-figure incomes. Debt was
the only way I was able to grow a nice-sized net worth. Debt was the
only way I was able to retire at 45 and never work for the man again.

Most people abuse debt, and debt keeps them in the Rat Race.
However, debt is a tool that can get you out of the Rat Race if you
leverage it correctly.
How Fast is Too Fast?

Buying four rental properties in 6-12 months is too fast for most
people. You don’t give yourself enough time to see if you get your
number right and if you like being a landlord.

I want to see you buy your first or next rental property and take a
pause. After your first one, let the process happen and see if you like it.
By letting it run, you can see if you got your number right and if the
unit is cash flowing as expected.

The chances increase of you growing your portfolio if you take a

pause. It is easier to deal with any issues on a small scale instead of
being caught with multiple surprises all at one time.

Debt: When to Grow Versus When to Pay Off

Debt is a tool, and it is the only way you will build a decent Real
Estate portfolio. There are two phases in your Real Estate career. In the
first, you are growing and your investments should have debt. In the
second, you are headed towards retirement and slowing down. Have a
few assets owned free and clear.

I do not like the idea of buying a rental and spending 10-15 years
paying it off before you buy the next one. That just seems so foolish to
me and means most people will never get more than two rental
properties.

Children and Changing Focus

There is no question that children change everything. They are

wonderful and bring so much joy, but they are expensive, and we want
to give them everything. If you have children, educate them about
money, spending, investing, taxes, earning, etc. Too many kids get out
of high school and are not prepared for life and money.

If you want kids in the future, I suggest living below your means
and getting some assets as early as possible so you have a foundation of
 cash flow to reduce the additional expenses of children.

Kids want your time, so give it to them. Take them out when you
look at property. Ask them questions. Ask them opinions. The more you
ask them, the more they are likely to remember when they are adults.

Real Estate Investing is a People Business

Real Estate is without question a people business. A friend of mine

says all the time, “Your network is your net worth,” and I think he is
right.

In the last year my network has helped by bringing me deals,

finding a seller finance lead, raising capital, fixing several emergency
repairs, evicting tenants, raising rents, and finding personal lines of
credit.

Get out from behind your computer and go meet some new people.
You never know when and where the next great contact or conversation
will occur.
 Chapter 7 - Guest Interview: Pool
Cleaner Who Was Afraid of the Phone
Becomes a Real Estate Entrepreneur
In this interview, I speak with a guest who goes full time, partners up
with someone for a few years, and then—Boom!—the real work begins.
Partnerships can be amazing when they work well, but they can also be true
catastrophes.

In this guest’s case, we learn about an experience that was net positive
for a couple of years, but the partners grew apart over time. This meant our
guest had to get comfortable in an area of the business he was not
comfortable. This caused a lot of financial pain. It is hard to close deals
when you throw your phone across the room as leads call.

Our guest found the courage to keep going. He set a hard deadline to
prove he could do it. Otherwise, he would give up REI and get a day job.
When you are down on your luck you can either stay down or you can get up
and keep going. Our guest got up and crushed his 30-day goal. The rest is
history.

I found so many things to admire in this interview and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Does a Partnership Work?

I have never had a partnership in my Real Estate Investment

business, but I am often asked about it. My general thoughts are that
partnerships in Real Estate Investing are like marriages. They can be
rushed into without proper planning because it feels good.

My guest’s partnership dissolved after a few years. The partnership

helped both investors get started and initially worked. When it didn’t
work and shut down, my guest had some real struggles.
 I could feel the depth of his struggle and the stress as things went
from bad to worse. However, our guest overcame his adversity and has
gone on to big things. I’m not sure if I could have dealt with the stress.
That is why I call myself an investor and not an entrepreneur.

Time and Money Matters

I wish more people based decisions on time. Just because you think
you can make $30K on a 6-month flip, doesn’t mean you should. What
if you could make $10K by assigning the contract in 48 hours? What if
I told you, that you had 5 other projects that were already slipping
dates? What if payroll was due?

In the end, consider time, energy and dollars when making

investment decisions. Sometimes it is better to take the quick nickel
instead of the long dime.

When You Hit Bottom, Get Up

Real Estate Investing will test you. It could test you to the point you
want to turn off your cell phone and not deal with more bad news. If
you know that going in, you will be ready for the bad days.

When the bad days come you have choices. You can decide to get
up, deal with the problem and move on. You can also let the problem or
event win by stealing your dreams.

Real Estate tests us because the returns are so outstanding. It tries to

trip us up along the way. It wants to make sure you are committed to the
journey and that you deserve the rewards.

If you ever have a bad day, you can read about the low point in this
investor’s journey. He came back and crushed all his expectations. You
can do that, too!

Proof of Concept
 Sometimes you need to know an idea works and has merit to really
double down and commit. In software sales we sometimes called it a
“Proof of Concept” or “POC.”

This investor knew Real Estate Investing was his path forward, but
it didn’t take off until he committed to a 30 Day POC with defined
goals.

You can see the success of others. You can work with a partner. But
when you are on your own, it is all up to you. 30 Day POC with a $10K
goal was a huge event for this guest that started a career full of big
wins.

When to Join a Mastermind

I have come to really appreciate Masterminds as they add a ton of

value when you are ready for them. In the beginning I was so focused
on my own little world and my life that I didn’t have time or even a
notion to look up and find others that were in a similar boat. Finding a
Mastermind of likeminded individuals who are on your path but at
different stages is amazing.

The right Mastermind can turbo charge your business and put you
around some amazing individuals. The wrong Mastermind will charge
you money and give you nothing except unrealistic expectations and
big headaches.

Choose wisely but remember in the beginning it is ok to learn and

grow at your own pace. I recommend that. Some investors jump into a
Mastermind before they have their first deal. That can be a mistake
because you might not have any context for what is going on with the
group.

$10M Goal

Our guest has an amazing goal of doing $10M in topline revenue.

To hear him discuss this truly legendary goal is to believe he can
accomplish it. I sometimes think I need to step up to bigger goals.
 Become a Realtor or Not

One of the most frequent questions I get from new investors is,
“Should I get my Real Estate license?” This guest has his license, and
he uses it a little differently than most Real Estate agents.

The wrinkle is to use your license to maximize the chances of

monetizing leads. For example, if someone decides they want retail
price and the property is clean, you can refer the lead to an agent and
get paid. The key, however, is to process it quickly and not spend much
time on it.

I think most Real Estate Investors shouldn’t get their license.

However, if you use the license to maximize returns while not wasting
time, it can be a genius move.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Full Time in Real Estate since 2014
Real Estate Entrepreneur
Licensed Real Estate Agent
Partnered first couple of Years
Struggled Going Solo
Afraid of Phone
Nearly Lost Everything
Energy Drink Proves a Point
Life Provides Lessons in unusually ways
33 Deals First Year
Big Goals 500 Deals, 20K Profit and 10M Top Line
Advice: You Never Fail if you keep trying as this business is not easy
In Their Own Words

Guest: I call myself a Real Estate Entrepreneur because I don’t look at

this transactionally but as a business and a system. My mindset is not to just
get to the next deal. We're looking at a year, three years, five years, 10 years
down the road. I don’t only do wholesale or fix and flip, but I'm also a Real
Estate agent. When an opportunity crosses my path, I look at it from all these
different angles.

Zuber: This guest highlighting himself as a Real Estate

Entrepreneur made me want to learn more about him. I have heard the
term several times since I interviewed him, but this was the first time I
had heard the term.

Real Estate Business is about generating leads and processing them

for profit. A Real Estate Entrepreneur can process leads in different
ways and with very different time frames. For example, they can buy
and flip themselves or pass on the lead to an agent.

The ability to process maximum leads for maximum profit is one of

the frameworks that built The Hub. I wanted The Hub in Fresno to be a
one-stop shop for all Real Estate Investors and Leads.

Guest: Being a Licensed Agent is great if your goal for income is low six
figures. My goal is to make more money than that. However, having a
license is beneficial even if your goal is like mine to make $5M-$10M a
year.

Zuber: I am often asked, “Should I get my Real Estate License”? If

you are in the business of wholesaling or flipping properties where
gains can be significant per transactions, a Real Estate License could be
helpful, or it could consume time better spent elsewhere.

What are your goals? Will a Real Estate License help you meet your
goals? How do you want to spend your time? How would you process
leads? Will a license help you with these?

Guest: I'm referring out several transactions a month. This means I can
save some time and have another stream of income that others work on.

Zuber: Being a Real Estate Entrepreneur with a Real Estate

License means my guest can pass along leads as referrals unlike some
investors. Many new investors cannot process leads unless they have fat
margins.
 Our guest can instead pass on referrals to other agents to list
properties at list price. This simple activity allows my guest to collect
some commission checks while also saving time so he can work on
more rewarding leads.

Guest: In my market, agents make $3K to $4K per transaction. It’s not
that hard to earn a check worth $20K to $100K. There are many different
avenues that you could take to make a lot of money. Most agents are taught
and trained to think like realtors, and it's very hard to get them out of that
realtor box.

Zuber: A Real Estate Entrepreneur balances time commitments

with potential rewards. If your market is offering 5X to 10X returns on
time with flips or wholesale opportunities, why would you commit
most of your time to listing or selling properties in the MLS? You
wouldn’t because the opportunity cost is too big.

However, if you are doing your day job and a lead comes across
your desk that doesn’t fit your model, why not pass it on and get a small
referral fee? Referral fees, if done correctly, could be the basis of
paying your marketing costs. The marketing cost is already spent so
why not try and maximize the return of every lead?

In my book, this is a genius move! Why limit yourself to only one

type of opportunity as you could be leaving big money on the table that
requires very little extra work?

Guest: I'll go back to the drawing board and ask, “What is my time and
money out versus a fix and flip or a wholesale deal?” I don't have rentals yet,
but I still look at every deal like I might keep it. If I were to turn this into a
rental, where would I be? Sometimes we can buy a property, then literally
trash out for just $2K and immediately list it.

Zuber: Looking at each deal individually and through all different

lenses means you can maximize use of time and money. You can also
manage cash flow much better with all these options.
 For example, what if it was the end of the month, and you need to
make payroll or pay for next month’s advertising? You might take a
wholesale deal that is $20K less profit but allows you to pay critical
bills without dipping into personal savings.

I admire the idea of taking each lead and discerning how to convert
it in the moment. That is very powerful and very creative.

Guest: Early on I had an interest in Real Estate, but I never did anything
about it. I was cleaning pools. It was great, but I needed to roll the dice and
go for it. I wasn't making a ton of money.

Zuber: This is another great example that it doesn’t matter how you
come into this business of Real Estate Investing. You need the desire
and the heart. You need the ability to keep moving forward even if you
fall down a few times.

Real Estate Investing is a powerful force because it brings to the

table entrepreneurs seeking to create a better financial future for their
family. This guest was a pool cleaner with no Real Estate background.
He did have a burning desire to be successful.

If I can be successful and my guest can be successful, with hard

work you can also be successful!

Guest: When I'd get home from work, I would Google “how to make
money in Real Estate.” I heard about fixing and flipping again. This was late
2009 and early 2010. Then I stumbled across wholesaling on YouTube.

Zuber: With most of my guests you will see that they started in
Real Estate Investing by learning at night after working their day job.
Some of them worked twelve hours and then spent four to six hours
learning about Real Estate.

A simple Google Search is the beginning for lots of investors. As

the guest shared, he bounced around topics and then landed on where
he wanted to start: Wholesaling.
 Wholesaling is the start for lots of new investors because they don’t
have money to buy for themselves. Wholesaling produces chunk money
instead of monthly cash flow.

True Wealth is created with holding cash-flow assets long term.

However, you sometimes need to build a financial base so you can keep
moving forward and eventually buy Rental Properties.

Guest: When I heard about Wholesaling, my mind was blown. I don't

have to buy properties with cash that I currently don’t have! In the
beginning, I thought I could do one every month without issue. I called
agents and investors. I posted on Craigslist. I was looking for deals.

Zuber: Wholesaling is popular for newbies because it looks super

easy with the possibility of huge checks. YouTube University has
created more Wholesalers than any guru could.

Unfortunately, Wholesaling is not easy. It can be frustrating and

hard to get the first deal and it is ultra-competitive.

Many new investors think, “I can get at least 1 deal a month! I am

smarter than that guy/girl on YouTube.” Most new wholesalers never
get a deal and wash out. For others it routinely takes six months or
more for that first paycheck.

Wholesaling takes a lot more money than most people think. You
have to buy leads and use apps with monthly fees. The costs can really
add up.

Guest: As I was looking for deals, I ran into a gentleman who was about
a year or two older than me. He was just getting started. We had similar
goals and values. We believed it would be better for us to figure this out
together instead of competing.

Zuber: Sometimes there is power in partnership. Two people taking

the same hill together can be quite rewarding as it has a built-in support
system. Not all partnerships work. When you have clear roles and each
person respects the other, a partnership can be very powerful.
 Guest: I struggled on my own. My phone would ring. I would shake and
think, “I can’t answer this phone.” I remember my phone ringing and being
so fearful. I picked up my phone and threw it across the room.

Zuber: Many partnerships don’t last forever. Some blow up in a

huge way, and others just fizzle out. When partnerships end it can leave
each person struggling on their own as they are now picking up both
sides of the business.

My guest was left to struggle with an important part of the business.

The phone can be a scary thing, but it is something that must be
overcome. There is money on the other side of that phone call!

Being brave enough to acknowledge a weakness is one thing, but

over coming it is far more powerful. It shows you that you can do
anything. Going from someone who throws a phone across the room to
someone who routinely closes big deals on the phone is very
impressive.

Guest: When starting out there are so many of those shiny objects that
cost money every month. Some people were talking about bulk REO, some
about lease options. I was trying to learn everything. I got in contact with
hedge funds and big banks, getting my foot in the door for a lot of things, but
never making any progress.

Zuber: When you are starting out with Real Estate Investing, you
need to understand that there are lots of “Tools” or “Systems” that can
feel like a good deal as they are only X dollars a month. You are going
to be huge, so why not buy this tool and that tool.

Beware of feeling like you are making progress because you are
busy. Discern if you are doing things to pass time but not doing the
activities that drive deals or leads. Watch how your time is spent in the
beginning, as those early days are key. You must learn your market,
understand how to communicate with owners, and understand how to
assess value. There are many things to learn without spending
significant money on applications or systems.
 Guest: In 2012, I basically lost everything I had. My cell phone probably
got turned off four or five times that year. My car went into default three or
four times. I ended up basically living off a couple of credit cards just to pay
my bills. I really felt defeated.

Zuber: Whether you are a Full-Time or a Part-Time Real Estate

Investor, you will be tested. This business offers riches but can attract
less scrupulous people. It takes daily execution to learn a market.

The rewards are worth the effort. You will have bad days, and
sometimes bad days lead to more bad days in this business. Having
your phone turned off is not ideal in this business. Having a car in
default is not ideal in this business. You must press on and find out
what you are made of.

This guest is a rock star investor and someone I admire. I look up to

him because he didn’t give up when it was hard. Instead, he pressed on
and figured it out. He has taken a real fear and turned it into a strength.

Guest: I remember thinking at my lowest point, “I'm going to give it 30

days. I'm going to go all out and in 30 days I have to line up $10,000 or
more.” If I didn’t do that, I was going to hang up my hat and say, “Okay,
Real Estate isn't for me. Maybe now it's time to go find a career somewhere
else.”

Zuber: I love the fact this guest looked himself in the mirror and
said, “You know what? I need to give this thing my all. No more acting
busy. No more excuses, I am just going to go all out every day for 30
days, and if I don’t line up at least $10,000, I am out.”

Having this internal fire is great, but it took getting to a low point to
recognize the need for max effort. I recommend skipping the step of
almost going broke. Jump to the stage where you commit to doing the
work.

I have looked at my market every day for 20 years. It only takes 10-
20 minutes. It is easy for life to get in the way if you let it. Do the work
 and focus like I talk about all the time in my course How to Get Started
One Rental at a Time.

Guest: My day job started at 8 AM so I'd get in my office at 7:30. I'd

plan out my day, see who I needed to call. Every break I was on the phone. I
clocked out at five, and I'd stay in the office until 9 PM. With focus and hard
work, I lined up $15K in assignment fees.

Zuber: When you decide to go all in, and you are committed to
doing the work, it is amazing what you can accomplish. After months
of struggles, this guest did something he desperately needed. He lined
up $15K, which exceeded his $10K goal. More importantly, he proved
to himself he could do this thing solo!

If you are reading this book, you have it in you to do the work.
You’re reading the book because you have a goal and want to fulfill
your dream. You just have to decide what you want to focus on and
then get to work.

Do not fill your day with extra things that could give you burnout.
For example, if you are buy and hold and following my advice of focus
and daily execution, I want you to commit 20 minutes and then get on
with everything else life has to offer. No need to endlessly stare at the
computer.

Do the work today. Do the work tomorrow. Do the work the day
after that. Do the work every day.

Guest: After I focused, I closed 33 deals in my first year working full

time on my own.

Zuber: I love seeing people take on challenges, do things they

thought hard or impossible, and then go on to just crush it. Going from
throwing your phone to closing 33 deals solo is quite the
accomplishment!

I hope you read this story and realize the growth and determination
it took. I want you to know that you can do it too. Recognize the
challenge and get to work.
 Guest: I like huge goals. I put the $10M number out there because I
think it’s possible. That is ONLY 500 deals a year at $20K a pop. I think it's
very doable. It's very possible. I know there are other companies that do that,
so why can’t we?

Zuber: I absolutely love huge goals. In my sales career, I always

increased my personal goals. However, I have struggled with creating a
big goal for myself.

I have a Positive Impact Score that I share every Sunday. That is a

lot of fun because it is based on my audience and the fact they are
closing deals.

I don’t have income or net worth goals because I am personally

comfortable. Maybe that is a mistake. I feel that if people stay focused
on following the One Rental at a Time message, then all the rest will
take care of itself. That said, I still love hearing big crazy goals like
$10M a year in top line revenue.

Guest: We joined a Mastermind where we rub shoulders with people

who are doing 150-300 deals a year. You don't have to invent the wheel.
Find the people who are where you want to be, ask them questions, listen to
them, and do whatever they say. If that means you have to pay to get there,
then pay up if you can. Maybe not $25K like we have paid, but access to
experience is not free.

Zuber: Being around others that are truly doing big things is
amazing. However, being around others that are willing to share their
experience is even better.

Masterminds are awesome and paying thousands of dollars is worth

it for the right group. However, new investors who haven’t done a deal
yet should focus on basic education and not Masterminds. It will just be
overkill.

Newbies have no need for huge systems and endless applications

when they can’t calculate ARV or a Cash-on-Cash return. Know where
you are in the journey. If it is time to get educated, do the work. If it is
 time to level up after you have proof of concept, then do that and
Masterminds are great.

Value I Took from Interview

Power of Being a Real Estate Entrepreneur:

It might seem like a subtle twist to you but being a Full Time Real
Estate Entrepreneur is far better than being a Full Time Wholesaler or
Flipper or Buy and Hold. If you call yourself one of those other things,
you will miss deals and revenue and profit. A Real Estate Entrepreneur
does not waste a lead. They find a way to monetize any and all leads.

Don’t let how you see yourself limit your ability to make money.
You spent the money on marketing already and you have the lead. You
might as well collect some kind of return on it.

Consider Time and Profit:

Lots of Entrepreneurs and Investors miss this important distinction.

Sometimes you need to take the quick nickel instead of the long dime.
If your time is pressing—maybe you just had a child—you might want
to let a profitable deal go quick via a fast cash sale instead of trying to
run a flip and bond with a new baby.

Sometimes in Real Estate we get focused on the wrong priorities. In

life, time is an important variable because we can never get it back once
spent. If you are running a business or multiple projects at the same
time, I strongly suggest you sometimes off load a deal for a quick win
instead of trying to pile on more projects.

Partnering Up in the Beginning Can Work:

I have never partnered with anyone as I chose the slow and steady
path of One Rental at a Time. However, as our Guest shared, it makes a
lot of sense for people looking to go full time that have complementary
skills and the same thoughts about the business.
 I wouldn’t recommend it if both parties kind of do the same things.
Huge areas will be missed. A partnership like the one at the start of this
guest’s journey was great as it lowered risk, created focus on their
respective skills, and it got them off the ground.

I don’t think partnerships work all the time. Most don’t work out,
but there are times it makes perfect sense.

Partnerships Can End:

Anyone considering a partnership to start their business should talk

about how to break up if it doesn’t work out in the future. What is your
exit strategy? You are not planning to fail, but you need to understand
what the exit looks like for both parties early so there are no hard
feelings.

Partnerships can end for lots of reasons. In this case we saw two
partners start and succeed together, but as they both matured it became
clear there were really two businesses and not one and thus needed to
shut down the partnership.

I suppose ending a partnership is a lot like a divorce. If you had the

discussion early, it should be easier to unwind. I suspect it is never fun,
even if you have an agreed plan, but hopefully it is at least a little
easier.

Finding That Fire to Not Fail:

My greatest take away from this interview was that special fire it
took to finally challenge himself with a 30 Day and $10K challenge. He
was in a bad spot. Instead of folding like a cheap tent, he stood up and
went after it with all he had.

The challenge he set was important and I believe he meant it. If he

didn’t get $10K, he would have given up and done something else. This
made the challenge real and motivated him to go after it every day. He
had the desire. The fear of failing kept him going as he earned $15K.
The rest is history.
 Chapter 8 - Guest Interview: Rushes to
Back of Room and Buys Guru Course for
$2,000
Everyone’s story of starting out with Real Estate Investing is different.
Our guest raced to the back of the room to gladly spend his last $2K on a
course. After that, he struggled to get his first deal and pay his bills.

This guest learned that interest rate changes can crush your business if
you have the wrong inventory at the wrong time. He will also teach how to
use and not use hard money to earn massive returns. He provides financial
insight by teaching that earning chunk money is not wealth creation. He is
all about evolving his focus and living with a growth mindset.

I found so many things to admire in this interview, and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Spends $2,000 on Guru Course

Not sure how I feel about new investors running to the back of the
room and spending $2K for a weekend course. Most of these gurus are
simply sales and marketing companies selling dreams and taking
advantage of people. However, this $2K investment was the kick in the
pants our guest needed to go all in. That $2K was all he had, so he had
to find money somewhere

Don’t put yourself in the kind of financial bind. If you’re going to

do it, it might as well be when you are 20 years old.

Bets on Himself

I love hearing stories about people who go all in and bet on

themselves. It’s like a movie. There will be twists and turns along the
 way, and I want to hear about all of them. I also want to hear if the story
ends with “We conquered the world” or “We will get them next time.”

When people go all in and keep going, the story is never boring. I
love learning the stories of investors who kept moving forward through
the good and bad days. If you are a full-time employee like I was, there
is no need to worry. You can bet on yourself by finding 20 minutes a
day to look at your market and build a great side hustle of rental
properties.

Chunk Money

It took me over a decade to appreciate that you can truly create

chunk money. When I was building our portfolio, our chunk money
came from commission checks and stock grants, not flips and wholesale
deals.

However, after I left the Rat Race, I understood the power of

creating chunks of money. I built a knowledge base of rental properties.
I learned what a good deal is and what a great deal is. I now use that
knowledge to find flip opportunities where I can add $20K of chunk
money.

Interest Rate Increases Can Change Markets

Markets can change fast based on lending or interest rates. This

guest highlights a period in 2018 where interest rates spiked because of
the Federal Reserve.

When the Federal Reserve raised rates too far, the entire Real Estate
market came to a sudden stop. If you happened to be mid flip in a high-
end property, you probably lost money as the market for that product
stopped almost overnight.

Lenders have the money, and they make the rules. Sometimes they
are super easy to work with and sometimes they are not. The Federal
Reserve plays an important part in Real Estate Investing because they
control interest rates. They can quickly stop Real Estate Investing in its
tracks by quickly raising rates.
Wealth Creation

True wealth creation comes from holding properties long term. You
can make great money in this business year to year, but it will be taxed
as ordinary income. It will be another job that you have to keep going
to everyday.

Most new investors come to Real Estate because they see the wealth
it can bring, but too many folks get lost in the short-term money and
never buy and hold long term. If you want Real Estate to make you
wealthy, start buying good deals now and hold them for over ten years.
Hold time is one of the greatest indicators of wealth accumulation.

Bigger Opportunities

Our guest started his business with simple little house deals.
However, he transitioned to bigger deals. He went from residential
deals to commercial deals. This switch will allow him to leverage his
time for maximum benefit without having to build a massive team.

Doesn’t Want a Big Team

Some investors want big teams. Others say, “No thanks! That
sounds horrible.” I ran sales teams and can testify that the last thing you
want is overhead and employees. I don’t want the responsibility or the
headache of having employees. I would much rather sputter along
doing a few deals a year instead of having to do 50+ deals just to cover
overhead. You can call me lazy and say I have no ambition, but my
quality of life is pretty good. I don’t want the headaches of a big team.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Lives In San Diego, Invest in North East
Original Dream was to Play Pro Hockey
Inspired by Free Real Estate Event, Spent 2K Back of the Room
Started to Buy and Sell Properties 4 Years ago
Leverages Hard Money to Buy and Repair Properties
 Likes to Wholetail Properties (Buy, Clean Up and Sell)
Started with Houses but Looking to Go Bigger
Flipping is a Job, Buy and Hold is Wealth
Investors Should Focus or Effort can be Scattered
Flipping is Great Business but Can Lead to Big Mistakes
Advice: Boots on The Ground is Critical when going out of State

In Their Own Words

Guest: I've been buying and selling investment property for almost four
years now. It's funny how time flies. I've been very fortunate to learn a lot in
this business. I started four years ago at 20. Now I'm looking forward to
continuing my entrepreneurial journey and growing and scaling and getting
into bigger deals as I gain more experience.

Zuber: I love when I hear that investors got started when they were
young. When I was 20, I was newly married, going to college, and
working a full-time job. I think about what could have been if I took a
little time to start educating myself early instead of jumping into the Rat
Race and spending bigger and bigger as my income rose from 20 to 30.

I want to encourage more young people to get into Real Estate

Investing as they have time and energy. Young people usually don’t
have lots of financial commitments, so they can live cheaply as they
learn their market. If I had started a decade earlier, I would have retired
by 30 and have twice the portfolio that I have today.

I do not have a time machine. I can’t go back in time, but I can

encourage the next generation. Getting started at any age is better than
waiting another decade. Get started now and learn your market.

Guest: When interest rates went up a little bit in 2018, the market cooled
down in Dallas and in New York. The high-end market in New York really
started to slow down. A lot of my buddies were buying, fixing and flipping
high-end houses and got themselves into some trouble.

Zuber: Stop and appreciate the wisdom in the comment above.

Lenders and interest rates can really cool off a housing market if they
 move at the wrong time. If you are flipping high end homes and rates
jump, you could be left holding a pretty big bag of lost equity.

If you have those short-term projects funded with expensive short-

term debt, things could get really uncomfortable really fast. When in
doubt, get 30-year fixed rate debt, especially if you are going to be a
long term buy-and-hold investor.

Guest: You must know what you're doing when you start borrowing hard
money because there's a lot of moving parts to Real Estate with borrowed
hard money. It can be very expensive money, but if you know how to play
the game right, you can use hard money to get insane cash-on-cash returns.
It's unbelievable. You have to make sure you know what you're doing. Hard
money can ruin you if you’re not careful.

Zuber: Access to capital is critical for Real Estate Investors. Lots

of new investors turn to Hard Money lenders because getting a “Yes”
from them is fairly straight forward because they lend on the project.
Unfortunately, new investors sometimes find out just how costly those
funds are when they go to exit a deal. It might take longer than
expected. The required appraisal might come back light. Then you are
short $20K.

To be clear, hard money was a critical part of our journey before we

found private money. We used it as short-term financing so we could
buy more properties during the Real Estate crash. Back then banks
refused to lend to us for years.

Guest: I struggled in the beginning to understand a good deal. I was so

anxious and desperate because without a deal, I had no other income. I was
trying to swing at everything with no focus.

Zuber: When you are first starting out and you are 100% in the
business, it can feel a little desperate as you keep spending money on
leads, you keep spending time, and you don’t have a check to pay your
bills. Many investors and entrepreneurs get desperate, and they start
chasing anything that might lead to a deal and a check.
 I am a huge proponent of focus. When the times get tough, it is time
to refocus on a vital few things and not try and tackle everything. As
you chase every lead, you might feel better. However, in reality you are
not moving forward and not building positive leverage in your business.
When you focus, you start to see things you missed, and the market
starts to speak to you.

Guest: Real Estate Investing is a great business, but you can make some
pretty big mistakes. If you don’t know what you're doing, you can get
yourself into trouble very quickly.

Zuber: Someone had to say it! Real Estate Investing attracts a lot of
people because of financial freedom and the ability to make life
changing wealth if you stay with it long enough.

If you do not respect the Real Estate basics of safe leverage and
positive cash flow, then the market can turn on you quickly and leave
you in financial ruin. I knew plenty of investors who boasted of huge
net worth, and they were always working on bigger and nicer flips.
Unfortunately, their monthly nut was massive. When the market turned,
no one wanted their product. Some of them could have sold at small
losses. Instead, they refused and then got destroyed as the market
turned against them more and more as each week passed.

Never get kooky in this business as it has a habit of eventually

exposing people who do not respect the basics of sound Real Estate
Investing principles.

Guest: When looking for deals you must have some sort of criteria that
you're looking for because if you don't have criteria, you don't have anything
to disqualify. If you're looking for anything or just a deal, then you're going
to be all over the place without focus.

Zuber: I am happy to hear this from such a young investor.

Understand what you are seeking. Step one of my course is simple. Set
criteria for your market and then look at it every day.
 Step two is document what you see and start to learn what an
average deal is in your market. You want to learn average because once
you have done that, you can then get to work finding good and great
deals.

What is your criteria? Are you looking daily? Are you documenting
what you see? If you want the system I used, you can find it on my
website. The course is called How to Get Started One Rental at a Time.

Guest: Wholetailing property is a great strategy in a hot market. Once

you become the owner, you do the minimum amount of repairs you need to
do in order to get the property MLS ready. Maybe you spend $20,000 before
it goes on the MLS and out to the public.

Zuber: I am sure you have heard of flipping property, and if you

are in Real Estate long enough you will have heard of wholesaling.
However, have you heard of “Wholetailing?” This a great strategy
where you actually become the owner for a short time frame unlike
wholesaling where you sell your right to buy a property for a fee.

Once you are the owner of the property, you clean it up and do
some light rehab. I have seen some projects simply be trash out, paint,
carpet and relist two to three weeks later. When you wholetail a
property your timeframe is much shorter than a full flip.

The goal of the wholetail is to earn larger profit with very little
extra work but you must have the cash (or access to the cash) to close,
repair, and hold until sold to next buyer.

Guest: I started when I was 20 years old. I was in cash accumulation

mode. I never was an entrepreneur until I started this business. In the
beginning, I just needed to get my footing. Now that I’m 24, I realize that the
real wealth is in the rentals.

Zuber: I never saw myself as an entrepreneur either. However, in

this case, the guest dove in full time and went for it. That certainly feels
like an entrepreneur to me.
 As someone new to the business, it is not shocking to hear that his
first goal was cash accumulation. I call it getting chunk money instead
of monthly cash flow. If you start out in this business full time, you
need to focus on chunk money first because you need to pay your bills
and build the war chest that allows you to go after bigger and bigger
opportunities.

Our guest realized that true wealth is created by holding rental

properties long term. The ability to earn chunk money and build a
portfolio of rentals at the same time is a wonderful goal. Investors will
have repeated success with this method.

Guest: I went to one of those Guru events and ran to the back of the
room and bought their $2K course. I had two grand in the bank. Why not bet
on myself? I felt like it was all or nothing, and I signed up really fast.

Zuber: I am not a huge fan of the old guru method where they run a
free event only to try and get half the audience to run to the back of the
room and drop $2-10K on some weekend event. If that weekend event
pushes another $25K event, I am really annoyed and disappointed.

Let me tell you right now there are no secret lists, no secret systems,
and no secret handshakes to Real Estate Investing. There is structure
and proven path and access to individuals that has value. Charging $2K
or $10K for a weekend where the Guru himself doesn’t even show up?
That should be a crime.

I created and sell a course because so many people ask, “How did
you do it? What do you do?” Some ask for one-on-one mentoring. I
created the online course, and it is out there for hundreds of dollars. If
you want a one-on-one mentoring phone call or zoom call, it will cost
you. My time isn’t free, but it won’t be tens of thousands of dollars.
That is crazy.

Guest: If your mind's not right, the first speed bump is going to feel like
a brick wall. You will sit down and whine and cry.
 Zuber: A lot of the newer and successful Real Estate Investors
have similar traits. Real Estate Investing is a people business, and
because of that, people are going to disappoint you. The investors that
generally succeed take the good with the bad.

Real Estate will have some amazing days, but it will also have some
challenges. I suggest getting comfortable knowing everything won’t be
perfect all the time and that you will need to keep moving forward.
Some of my greatest lessons come from what appeared to be a huge
challenge in the moment.

Your mindset and how you see bumps in the road will dictate a lot
of your success in this business long term.

Guest: I don't want to have a big operation that does over 10 buys and
sells per month. There's nothing wrong with that. I think it's great but I don't
want that. I want to get into buying and selling bigger commercial properties
and then buying and holding the assets.

Zuber: Having a vision for the future is important. Do you want a

big business? Do you want employees? Do you want overhead? Do you
want a portfolio of just buy and hold rentals?

The sooner you get clear on what you want your future business or
portfolio to look like, the better off you will be. You don’t need this
vision on day one or even in the first year as you learn the business. At
some point you will want to know what you want the future to look
like.

Guest: People think, “If I can get to a certain level, then why not keep
going to the next level?” I think humans are made to evolve and not to stay
in the same spot too long.

Zuber: Our guest is right, especially when it comes to Real Estate

Investing. Real Estate Investing is one of those things that doesn’t have
an expiration date on it. You can, in theory, keep doing deals until the
day you die. I will keep doing deals every year, but my rate of
acquisition is down because I just don’t need to keep doing deals at the
 rate I once did. I only plan to do great deals because I can wait for
them. I can be extra picky.

Value I Took from Interview

Starting at 20:

I think getting started at 20 years old is amazing because it lets you

leverage time and risk when you have the least financial commitments.
The ability to jump in network and learn your market at 20 means you
will have decades of experience to build on as you grow older.

Betting on yourself, risking it all, and going for it is the American

Dream to me. If you want it bad enough and are ready to do the work,
you can get after it. It won’t be easy, but if you get going when you are
20, you will be in great shape!

Importance of Focus:

I harp on focus. It is freeing to look at a subset of the market every

day. We all live crazy busy lives, and we have other commitments. If
you work full time, just spend the 20 minutes each day, document what
you saw, and then move on to the rest of your daily necessities.

If you are running a business, the same rules apply. Don’t go after
everything because you will get nowhere. Instead, focus and get
moving on a small subset of the many possibilities.

Buying Criteria:

I preach focus in order to build a student’s confidence. I want every

student of mine to have the confidence to know their market and to spot
an average deal. The power comes when you can confidently say, “This
is what I look to buy. This is an average deal, and I will only do good or
great deals. If you follow me, I don’t want you doing average deals.
Anyone can do average deals. We only want good and great deals.

Don’t get me wrong: it can be hard to find good and great deals.
They are out there, but it might take time to find them.
Wholetail

The wholetail concept was very enlightening. It allows you to make

more money than a wholesale deal, and it allows you to get in and out
of the deal much faster than a full flip project.

Some properties make great wholetails so you should learn how to

do them. For many this means lining up hard or private money as you
don’t have the cash to close on the original purchase. There are lots of
Non-Qualified Mortgage (NQM) lenders today that can help.

Continued Growth

Something I did not appreciate when I started investing was how I

would have to change as a person and an investor as my experienced
grew. I currently am working on growing to see how I can take on other
projects in Fresno, California. I still don’t see myself going to other
markets, so I might as well learn to create value in different parts of the
Fresno Real Estate market.

Never stop growing, Real Estate Investing is just too much fun.
 Chapter 9 - Guest Interview: The
American Dream is Alive and Well
Have you ever thought about just quitting your job, starting a business on
credit cards, and just rolling the dice? Does that sound fun or terrifying?
How about if you had two little kids at home? Do you have the guts to go all
in on yourself? This guest did, and as you will hear, the ride was wild and oh
so satisfying.

My guest tells his version of the American Dream. It starts with a truck
and a toolbox and ends with the sale of a $30M business. The journey was
one of hard work, constant learning, and a lot of networking with people in
the business. Opportunities come to the ones that work hard, do good work,
and are open to the advice and opportunities presented by others.

This guest once again proves that you do not need a college education.
You just need commitment and belief in yourself. It helps to have the
support of your significant other as those first couple of years will be tight
and require a lot of work. However, as this guest proves, the rewards are
worth it.

There is a lot to admire from this guest. The lessons are priceless. I hope
you are inspired.

No College Education Required

I am often asked, “Are you glad you got a college degree and an
MBA on top of that?” I left college with about $42K in student loans
and an undergraduate degree in Economics and an MBA from Santa
Clara University. (Go Broncos!) My degree gave me the background to
excel in my field, and it gave me a great network since SCU is in the
heart of the Silicon Valley.
 That said, I believe college is pushed on too many. I went to a junior
college for over two years as I tried to figure out life as a married
teenager.

This guest graduated high school, served in the military, got a job
and then launched his business from scratch. It’s amazing and should be
celebrated! Most investors won’t see his level of success, but if you are
half as successful as him, it is better than $100K in student loans or a
minimum wage job.

Work Hard, Network and Be Open to Learning

The recipe for most things in life is straight forward. Hard work,
sacrifice, consistency and networking are keys to growth and progress.
You may not want to build a big organization with $30M in top line
revenue, but maybe you want to earn $50K a year on a side hustle or
have 10 rental properties.

If you execute, give your best efforts, and are open to learning, you
will get your opportunities and you will grow your business or side
hustle over time. You will not be an overnight success. Somedays it
might feel like you are going backwards, but you are making progress.
You got this! I believe in you.

Big Company Not Required

Something I love about this guest is he jumped in, built a wildly

successful business, and then decided that he valued his time. Thus, he
sold his $30M business.

Lots of investors and entrepreneurs I speak with talk about wanting

a huge company. In the next breath, they talk about wanting time
freedom. You can have one of these, but not both of them as you are
building your business.

Hearing our guest tell the story reminded me of someone driving

100 MPH and then slowing it down to 20 MPH. They are still moving
forward, but now they have time to enjoy the journey. They can look
 around and see if they missed anything. Do you need a big company?
Maybe you do, but this guest shows it might not be worth the headache.

Peace of Mind and Time Flexibility

Building a big business from scratch must be an amazing feeling.

However, I suspect it can feel all-consuming because it will always be
your baby. With Real Estate Investing, I suggest investors figure out
their real goal.

Many investors insist on wanting to be the biggest or the best.

Why? Others like me say, “I want X dollars and then I am good.”

In the end, it is absolutely possible to build an amazing business

that does $30M a year, but it does come with some costs. You need to
be willing to sacrifice your time and energy each week as you have a
big business to feed. That overhead won’t take care of itself.

Finding or Creating Value

Perhaps no skill is responsible for more of my wealth than the

ability to see or create value that others miss. As someone who teaches
and preaches the daily activity of looking at your market, the greatest
return has come from oddball listings that are just off.

Have you ever seen a 1,400 sf house listed as 1 Bedroom with 3

baths? I have. Turns out agent had a bad data entry. Most people would
just miss it. Not me. How about my favorite search—the 2 Bed, 1 Bath,
1,150 sq. ft house. This was a common configuration in Fresno decades
ago. If you find one, there is a good chance you can create a 3rd
bedroom for only $3K.

My experience in residential housing could be expanded to other

asset types. Turns out all types of assets can be mismanaged and
undervalued. They just need a new owner to bring it back to life.

No Employees Required
 I occasionally beat myself up for not being bigger. Yes, I do
struggle with the idea that maybe I am lazy or underachieving because I
have no employees.

One validation for me is hearing this guest tell his journey from
early struggles to rapid growth to selling the company and going down
to zero employees. I don’t need to go bigger. I am still growing and
producing at a rate that allows us to live a good life.

Zero employees. I need to hear that sometimes.

Commercial Value Creation Not Much Different than Residential

How about that? My years of experience with residential Real

Estate can be extended to the commercial market without much issue. A
strip mall that is undervalued can be cleaned up and improved much
like a junky house.

This guest reminded me that I should open my eyes to other

opportunities. His real focus is securing short term value add
opportunities so he can keep his money moving. Who wouldn’t want to
reposition retail or office space if the right opportunity came along?

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Charlottesville, Virginia
Natural Born Entrepreneur, Created 13 Companies
Started in 1997 with a Truck and A Toolbox
Did $250K 1st Year
Sold Business in 2011 After Doing 30M
Went from $1M in Overhead to Zero
Completed 200M In Deals
Builds Spec Homes, Commercial Development, Flips Houses, etc
Super Power is Finding or Creating Value
No Focused on Being a Leader, Delegator and Motivator
Advice – The American Dream is alive and well, go get yours
In Their Own Words
 Guest: Right now, I build spec houses. I do commercial development
ground up. I buy buildings and renovate them. I turn them into mixed use or
flex space for industrial. I also flip houses.

Zuber: It is such a joy to interview guests that take on areas of Real

Estate that I have never touched. I have never done ground up
development. To speak with an expert that has built homes, multi-use,
and commercial properties from ground up is awesome.

This guest didn’t start here. As he kept growing and looking for
opportunity, it became clear that his passion and value add was in
identifying undervalued land and then building it up. He currently
doesn’t hold a lot of assets, instead choosing to keep his money moving
from project to project.

Guest: It's value add and opportunistic, which sounds like the same
thing, but they are two different strategies in the commercial Real Estate
world. Value add is finding something that is somewhat stable—maybe a
commercial strip center with a couple of vacancies, but it looks old. I come
in and get those spaces leased. I dress up the building with some curb
appeal: a little bit of paint, minor things. They increase the income on that
property which increases the value of the property. That example is more of
a value add opportunity. It’s not as deep of a level as rehabbing an entire
building.

Zuber: Many upgrades we make in house flips are similar to those

made in massive commercial properties. Maybe it just needs some
lipstick and a little love, but maybe it needs to be gutted and restored.

It’s exciting to hear that my experience with single family could

translate to a bigger world of commercial properties. There are subtle
differences in leasing, contracts, and loan products, but the work of
finding and processing a deal is very similar.

This single interview gave me the confidence to look at strip centers

and think about what is possible if we flipped the strip center.
 Guest: I started in the business in 1997 as a little remodeling contractor.
It was just me and my truck and my tools. I did everything myself. Just a few
years later, we were one of the largest builders in our area. I did land
development, spec houses, and commercial.

Zuber: I call this the American Dream. You can start with a truck,
toolbox, and a lot of hustle. If you are good and have a little luck, you
can grow it to something amazing. Stories like this are why I love
interviewing other successful investors.

Real Estate Investing offers you the opportunity to find your

passion and grow as big as you choose. If you want a few rentals, that is
great. If you want to build a $30M building company, that is great.
What do you want your Real Estate future to look like?

Guest: I'm 51 now. I moved to the Outer Banks in 1997 when I started
that building company. I graduated high school, went in the Navy, did my
four years, got out and went to work. I suppose I'm just a hard worker. I
learned the business from the ground up, and I did it through hard work and
hard lessons. I learned it all by doing the work and working with other
people already in the business.

Zuber: What a great story! Graduate high school, serve your

country, get out, and just start working hard. Our guest is without
question a hard worker, but he also has that gift for seeing opportunity
and value where others don’t.

By doing the work and constantly networking in the business with

more and more people who were doing bigger and bigger things, you
will pick up a lot of knowledge by paying attention. If you deliver value
to your network, the rewards can be astronomical because they might
give you more and more business but also more and more of their time.

Real Estate Investing is a people business. You must work to meet

more and more people. If you can provide these people with value, you
most certainly will learn and see future opportunities. As our guest has
shared, these connections allowed him to go bigger and bigger and find
more and more ways to find and create value.
 Guest: My whole mission, my whole purpose in life, is to find and create
opportunities to add value to properties, to find the highest and best use of a
property and to uncover the gold in that property.

Zuber: After years of truly hard work, our guest has come to an
almost peaceful calm as he evaluates deals. His focus has both
expanded and narrowed. He is no longer just searching for beachfront
land to build spec houses. He now looks for properties that are frankly
misunderstood or mispriced because he knows how to create value by
find highest and best use, and he is willing to do the work. Our guest
now is focused on finding opportunities, executing a plan, and then
ringing the register to collect his reward for transitioning the property to
a new and more valuable use.

Guest: Now I see myself as a leader, delegator, and motivator. My job is

to find professionals that are the best at what they do and coach them to
success. I help them be more efficient and get the job done. I teach them to
not micromanage every aspect of the job and take on every aspect of a job
and squeeze every nickel out of every single part of the job.

Zuber: Being at peace with who you are now as an investor is truly
freeing. After building and then selling a $30M business, our guest is
content to work with other rock stars and staying out of the day-to-day
management. Trying to save or find every nickel is exhausting and
detracts you from higher and better uses of time.

By working with other professionals on a consistent basis you

actually find ways to network and grow together. They may have a
friend or contact that can help you, and you might know someone who
needs their skills after your job is complete.

Instead of focusing on squeezing every penny out of every deal, I

suggest you look to create solid long-term relationships that work for
decades.

Guest: Everybody I use from accounting, bookkeeping, and management

is outsourced. I simply focus on managing the general contractors and they
manage their own teams. I did have more overhead over the last six months,
but I've reached a point in my career where I'm looking to do less.

Zuber: Doesn’t that sound amazing? You reach a point in your

career where you just want to do less! For me that is the powerful of
Real Estate Investing. You can go as hard as you want or you can slow
down, if that is what you choose to do. You can build a $30M company,
work 80 hours a week, or you can just manage some general contractors
and outsource everything else.

Our guest has found peace in finding deals, managing the projects at
a high level, and securing capital. He doesn’t want to be the biggest or
the fastest or the one with the most units. Life is hard for people who
want to be the biggest.

When a Real Estate Investor tells me they want to spend time with
family and they want 1,000 units, I say, “Really?”

You think you can build a portfolio of 1,000 units, manage them,
and still have time for your family? Something has to give. You either
figure out your actual required unit count or you drop wanting to spend
time with family. You can’t have both.

Guest: I had some skills, so I quit my job and risked it all with two
young kids at home. I had no money. I had some credit cards. I had a little
bit of equity in my house and used a line of credit on my house to get started.
Then I started doing little odd jobs. The first job I did was some handyman
work for a friend that owned a restaurant. Then I built a deck. I trimmed
some houses for other builders. I did any project I could during that first
year. In the second year we built momentum and I tripled my business. We
were off to the races.

Zuber: Talk about betting on yourself! This guest had a day job, a
wife, and two little kids at home. After talking with some friends, he
saw the opportunity to start a handyman business from scratch. Some
people have the stones to jump out of a safe day job and bet on
themselves. Others, like myself, build a portfolio as a side hustle.
 This guest’s humility in doing any job to build a reputation was
outstanding. Creating a company from scratch that starts with you
doing the work and grows into a $30M dollar business is an amazing
accomplishment.

Starting a business on credit cards and your home equity had to be

stressful but this guest basically said, “Nope! That is just what you do.”
You leverage any credit you have, get to work, and just keep hustling
until you achieve escape velocity. For him that came in year two.

Guest: I grew to 21 employees. I had three superintendents running five

or six crews out in the field. I did sales all day long. The calls were coming
into the office. My office assistant paged me and dispatched me to different
locations, lining up my appointments so that I'd go from north to south every
day. Everything was great.

Zuber: A $30M company is a complicated beast. When you hear

about his overhead and daily work, you realize that he was truly busy.
You can also see why selling the company became a good idea so he
could slow down and enjoy the process more.

Twenty-one employees, five teams, and long days of chasing the

next job will eventually get to you. Even if you have great teams, you
will someday wonder, “Why am I working so hard, and what would it
be like if I just did things differently?”

If you want to build and run an organization that has a lot of

overhead and you want to hustle dawn to dusk, you can. You will need
to feed the beast and cover the overhead. If you want to slow down, sell
the business, but still execute Real Estate deals, you can do that. Real
Estate Investing offers you the flexibility and the ability to choose how
you want to spend your time.

Guest: We started building little spec houses down on the Outer Banks. I
turned all of my employees into subcontractors. They then had their own
companies and were independent contractors for me. That was my first step
towards outsourcing.
 Zuber: Transitioning from a full-on company to an investor who
leverages other businesses takes time. Our guest helped his employees
create companies where they had proficient skills. In short, he helped
several people create small general contracting companies just like he
started back in the day.

This allowed his employees the power and flexibility to seek other
jobs and grow at the pace they were comfortable. For our guest, it
meant he could remove some overhead and create some flexibility
while maintaining relationships as he would need them going forward.

Our guest outsourced accounting and bookkeeping which gave him

greater control of his time and avoided the stress of overhead each
week.

Real Estate Investing allows you to build or pare down as you see
fit. He was able to do this because he maintained the skills and
experience that added the most value: finding opportunities and
creating value.

This is a true legend in my book!!!

Guest: I was working 60 to 80 hours most weeks and spending a lot of

energy. I wrongly thought that I needed to control everything in house. For
instance, I was trying to buy lumber wholesale. I learned it all the hard way.

Zuber: Being an entrepreneur and building a company from scratch

can consume you as you are growing. New entrepreneurs try and do too
much on their own. When they look back, they realize if they would
have outsourced or leveraged others, they could have grown faster and
more profitably.

If you want to grow your business, first find your lane and where
you add value and then leverage others. Sometime paying a little more
for something will save you a lot of time and produce higher quality.
This is a win for your business. It lowers your stress levels and is a
huge win for your family.
 Guest: My business philosophy is pretty simple. I want to make the most
amount of money in the least amount of time with the least amount of energy
and effort possible.

Zuber: This might be the best business philosophy I have ever

heard. Who doesn’t want to make the most money with least effort and
energy? His philosophy is awesome! He started from a truck and a
toolbox and created a $30M company. But he’s not done. He is still
looking at deals and still looking to grow.

Value I Took from the Interview

Truck and a Toolbox:

This story is another example of the American Dream at work.

Nothing was given to him. He had to work for everything. Frankly, he
took a huge risk and started a business on credit cards with two little
girls at home. He knew he could find the work, execute the jobs, and
make a profit. He just had to get started, and he jumped in with both
feet.

The idea of him with his truck and his toolbox going around town
taking odd jobs to start the business is amazing. Then he built his
business and doubled revenue the next year and ultimately built a $30M
dollar business.

Through his network, he picked up a lot more experience. This led

to him building Spec Homes, Strip Malls and other ground-up
developments.

No College Education Required:

Our guest did not go to college. He proved that you can build an
amazing business in Real Estate by working hard, networking, and
always being open to learning even if you don’t have a college
education. High school seniors need to know that they don’t need $50K
in debt and a piece of paper to be successful.
 If you want to start a business, what better time than just after high
school, what do you have to lose? If you hustle, network and are open
to opportunities, you can go far in this business without a college
degree.

Jumped In, Hustled, Networked and Grew

Didn’t you just love how his story started? He graduated high
school, served his country, got a job, and then quit to start a business on
credit cards. Wow! Some folks have stones. I don’t think I could have
done that with two little ones at home. That is why our guest is a true
entrepreneur, and I am an investor. We are simply wired differently.

Our guest never slowed down. He just kept working and hustling as
the business grew and grew. Our guest met new people and expanded
his network. His growing network created new opportunities and
showed him how he can find and create value that others simply
missed.

$0 to $30M

Can you imagine the thrill of building a $30M business? I can’t

even imagine all the complexities, juggling, and people issues. It
doesn’t hurt to think about a 20% gross margin, pushing approximately
$6M to the bottom line after all expenses.

I think about all the driving he did and the upfront work he did, and
I wonder what he would have accomplished if he had outsourced some
of that. He might have created competition by training others, but he
might have had a more balanced life.

30 Employees to Zero

I was struck by how our guest seemed relieved to be back at zero

employees. Sure, it was fun and exciting to build the company, but at
this point in his life, time is the key factor. It is easier to peacefully
evaluate deals, decide on a deal, and then work with other companies to
do the work.
 You do not have to be a big company to be wildly successful in this
business. You certainly can, but it is not a requirement. Every year
plenty of investors do great things and they have zero employees. A big
overhead adds stress and causes sleepless nights if you are not careful
or if the market turns against you.
 Chapter 10: Guest Interview: From
Jamba Juice to Multi-Millionaire
In this interview, I spoke to a young man who has accomplished some
truly out-of-this world things. We first learn that as a teenager he moved
across the country to live with his girlfriend and her parents. He then saved
$7K and leveraged an FHA 203K loan for their first home. He then stoked
the fires for Real Estate Investing by the creation of $100K in equity in
under 12 months. This realization set our guest on a path that ultimately ends
with a portfolio of Southern California rentals, multiple streams of income,
and an online following of millions.

Hard work, consistent effort and time can lead to an amazing journey
when Real Estate is your vehicle of choice. Keep doing the work, keep
getting better, and you to will grow your portfolio One Rental at a Time.

I found so many things to admire in this interview. The lessons are

priceless. I hope you are inspired by what follows.

Father-In-Law Inspires

Learning how and when someone gets inspired to consider Real

Estate Investing is always fun. When our guest was in high school, his
father-in-law inspired him. Can you imagine those discussions?

Talk about money, spending, investing, and general Real Estate

Investing. Our goal should be to inspire others to take steps to improve
their financial future. We need to stop this microwave and easy button
to wealth mentality because it is causing heartache and financial stress.

If you talk about Real Estate Investing, tell the full story of doing
the work, being focused and understanding the basic math. Then you
can talk about passive income and life-changing wealth creation.

$7K Starts the Journey

 Can you save $7K? Can you leverage an FHA 203K loan to buy
your first house? Can you start your multi-millionaire dreams with just
your first home purchase? The answer is “Absolutely!” to all three
questions. Our guest did all of these on his journey to being a multi-
millionaire.

Have you ever thought about house hacking? It is a great strategy

for all young people. If you execute the game plan well, most of you
can be financially free just from house hacking.

Can you believe becoming a multi-millionaire all started with the

financial discipline to save $7K from working at Jamba Juice? That is
crazy and so exciting to see. If he can do it, so can you!

Family Affair

This guest is part of a dynamic husband and wife team that do

amazing things together. If you are married, you must get your
significant other onboard early so you can balance the workload and
support each other as you climb the ladder of a Better Financial Future,
Financial Freedom and Legacy Wealth.

Our guest’s wife does the property management and runs the books,
which frees up our guest to focus on finding deals and securing capital.
This journey is a 100% team effort. Never forget that.

Time Between Purchases

Becoming a new landlord is an amazing way to start building a

better financial future but being a landlord long term is not for
everyone. Our guest did the work but also leveraged time between
properties and slowly acquired them.

I suggest new landlords have 4-6 months between property number

one and property number two. You need to make sure you are ready and
happy being a landlord. It is far easier to get rid of one rental than five
rentals that you bought in one weekend.
 Please keep doing the work after your first property, but please give
it time before you buy property number two.

Made $100K on First Wedge Deal

Southern California Real Estate is known for being expensive.

When you are in that market and you catch it on an upswing, you can
quickly make some amazing gains. If you happen to buy right, find
value, add and catch the market on an upswing, you can make crazy
money quickly.

Making $100K in equity in one short year is amazing, but doing it

repeatedly is out of this world. Some of these gains can be because the
market is rising. He bought wedge deals and did the work to increase
the value. The boom-and-bust cycle that is California Real Estate can
be a wild ride. It can be very beneficial if you catch the ride up and
avoid the ride down.

Wedge deals can be found everywhere, but the numbers in Southern

California can be truly amazing.

Owner Occupied FHA and 203K Loan

I have never leveraged a FHA 203K loan. This guest used this loan
product for his first purchase. It helped him secure $100K in equity in
under a year. This big win gave our guest more confidence to keep
going and buy his first rental.

If you are in your 20s you should be looking for fixer uppers, house
hacking opportunities and properties where 203K loans can help fund
some of the repairs.

Hustle and Doing the Work

Consistent hard work is a key part of my How to Get Started One

Rental at a Time course. It’s fun to hear how our guest did the work and
essentially spoke a deal into existence. He knows how to hustle and do
the work.
 Our guest shares how he went from their first owner-occupied
house in their 20s to a portfolio of multiple rental properties. You too
can learn your market with focus and daily execution.

I found this guest’s story inspiring both for how it starts but also for
where I know he is going! Enjoy.

Guest Details
Lives and Invests in Southern California
Moved to CA to Live with Girlfriend (Now Wife) in Highschool
Got Real Estate License in 2011
Bought First Home in 2012, $300K Fixer Upper with FHA 203K Loan
Buy and Hold Investor who Self Manages
Only Sold One Property which He Regrets
Worked at Jamba Juice and Save up $7K to Start Real Estate Journey
Moved into Multi Homes as Live in Fixer Uppers to Get Best Rates
Likes to Find what he Calls Wedge Deals
Does the Work Consistently – He is a Machine (His Super Power)
Advice: Get on Property Ladder ASAP even you need a FHA 203K
Loan for a Fixer Upper to Start
In Their Own Words

Guest: Back in high school, I lived with my girlfriend who is now my

wife. That was when I first got excited about Real Estate. My soon-to-be
father-in-law had clients who started with houses and are now living
financially free with their rental income. They bought one rental at a time.
This seemed like a no-brainer.
 Zuber: Can you image living with your girlfriend/boyfriend and
her/his parents in high school? That’s non-traditional! I suspect her
parents realized that if they didn’t make some sacrifices, then there was
a good chance their daughter might run off to the East Coast once she
turned 18.

You never know where inspiration might take root. Think about it.
His father-in-law was talking about clients and our guest heard
“Rentals. Cash flow. Financial freedom. One rental at a time.” This is
why we must talk about money, investing, and spending with the next
generation. You never know when a simple conversation might spark
the next soon-to-be Real Estate millionaire.

One Rental at a Time is a no brainer. It is not a get-rich-quick

strategy, but it is a get-rich-for-sure strategy.

Guest: I became interested in Real Estate around the beginning of 2009.

As home values bottomed out at the end of 2009 and into 2010, we started
running numbers. We ran scenarios where we borrowed money from a
private lender for a down payment and what it would cost to pay off that
loan and the mortgage. If we turned around and rented it out, there would be
positive cash flow. It seemed like a no-brainer.

Zuber: Our guest has similar strategies to me: get focused, execute
daily, and get comfortable with the numbers. By continually doing this,
you can build confidence in yourself and your ability to spot deals.

Taking action and being consistent are key to learning your market.
Taking action after the colossal Real Estate bubble popped is next-level
timing. If you were buying California Real Estate back in that
timeframe, I hope you bought a lot and I hope you kept it all. Many
investors flipped or wholesaled them for quick chunk money, never
realizing how much Real Estate prices had been depressed. Many
markets were selling homes for much less than replacement costs and in
some markets you could buy a house for less than land value. Those
were crazy times after the Great Recession.
 Guest: I was working at Jamba Juice and I had saved up $7K. That was
all we had when we bought the first place for $300K. I bought that with my
wife. It was a total fixer. I pulled the trigger because of my father-in-law’s
influence and seeing his clients succeed. I knew the worst case scenario was
that I could rent it out.

We felt like we were getting a good deal because we had done the work.
We felt we could rent it or sell it if necessary. That was our safety net. We
wrote the offer and got the deal.

Zuber: Can you believe it? Our guest worked at Jamba Juice, saved
$7K and then got on the property ladder because he did the work. I
can’t stress this enough. If you live below your means, save money, and
learn your market, you can get on the property ladder.

Having done the work, our guest was confident in his decision. He
understood the downside and confidently moved forward. He bought
the house which started his love affair with Real Estate.

Getting on the property ladder at a young age should be celebrated

and encouraged. Instead of flexing on social media, save some money
and buy your first home. Who is with me?

Guest: I bought the home with an FHA loan and 3.5% down. We did the
renovation loan portion of the 203K Loan and renovated it within a year of
purchase. After a year, we were into the deal for somewhere around $380K,
but the place was worth like $475K. I worked my butt off at a job for a year
and I managed to save $7K and buy a beach cruiser bike. In a year of Real
Estate, I earned about $100K in equity. Real Estate is awesome.

Zuber: Who doesn’t like to hear a story of a homeowner taking the

risk, doing the work and reaping the rewards? Silly question. How long
would it take you to save $100K? Most people can never do that.

Getting on the property ladder is critical for many, but how about
buying a fixer upper and leveraging a 203K loan to help with the
funding of those repairs? The 203K loan is an optional loan designed
for first-time home buyers that might be buying a fixer upper.
 Most of us will not see $100K in appreciation in 12 months, but
what if it was $10K a year or $50K over 5 Years? Wouldn’t that still be
a good thing? Getting on the property ladder is key. Helping investors
get as many cash flow rentals with cheap financing is even better.

Guest: I kept telling myself, “I'm going to find a deal I can buy this
year.” Two months later, I was doing an open house and this person walks
into the open house and says, “Hey, would it be weird if you had two listings
on same street?” We ended up buying the property. We were able to buy it
off market for $388K. After we put in $40K, it was worth $500K. This was
our first rental property. I told myself every day, “I will make it happen,” and
then the opportunity presented itself.

Zuber: Sometimes you just need to put it out there that you will
find an opportunity. You must continue to do the work, but when
preparation meets opportunity, a deal can be made.

He put himself in the path of deals by hosting an open house,

mingling with people as they came through, and talking to a neighbor.
He bought the fixer upper off market, did the work, and earned the
increase in value. Not bad for his first rental property.

Real wealth comes from holding property, not selling it. I am sure
this house has increased in value, and the renter has been paying the
mortgage all this time.

Guest: It's okay to take your time. My goal was always one rental at a
time. I thought it would be great if I could do one a year. You see a lot of
stories online where people say, “I did ten deals this month” or “I bought
five places out of state this weekend.” That’s not a realistic way to build
wealth for the masses. Simply buy a place, live in it, and fix it up over 6-12
months. The time between our first and our second property was about 12
months. That felt fast.

Zuber: Real Estate Investing is a “Get Rich for Sure” strategy and
not a “Get Rich Quick” strategy. You can get rich quick, but you can’t
plan on winning the lottery. Plan to do the work over years and enjoy
the journey to a better financial future.
 I completely agree with the mindset of buy one at a time and let
some time pass before your next buy. As a new investor and landlord,
you need to make sure this activity is for you as it is simply not for
everyone. Instead of buying five properties in a weekend, why not buy
one and sit back for 3-6 months to see if you learn anything or made a
mistake on your numbers?

It’s scary when I see investors go all in over a weekend. I think it is

foolish to walk into a market you have never lived in and never visited
and then plunk down $100K. It does not end well for most. Please do
the work, learn the market and network with everyone you can in that
out of state market.

Guest: A wedge deal is possible in almost any market. The essence of a

wedge deal is very simple. Look for a house that is, for example, $200K.
You put maybe $20K of work into it, and it is now worth say $275K to
$300K. The difference between value to your all-in cost is the size of the
wedge. My first two deals were outstanding wedge deals.

Zuber: Wedge deals basically boil down to buying property for

under market. Buying property under market value is a key of many
Real Estate strategies from the BRRRR method to wedge deals. The
key is you must do the work to understand after-repair value and the
cost to renovate. This powerful combination allows you to calculate
your maximum offer.

Let’s say the house is worth $150K after all clean up. If you
estimate that you will need $20K to repair and $8K in other costs like
holding and transaction costs, what is the maximum you can pay? Well
simple math says that your costs are $20K+$8K = $28K. You then
subtract that from the $150K for a price of $122K. But that price
doesn’t include profit nor a reserve for surprises.

In this example, a much better maximum offer is $100K - $105K

for most investors. Do the work and understand ARV (After Repair
Value) and the cost to remodel or repair. It takes work and practice, but
anyone can learn it.
 Guest: Wedge Deals exist in all markets because residential properties
are saturated by unsophisticated home buyers and their mom-and-pop
investors. Most people don't understand that nightmare houses with stinky
hoarders sell at discounts to value because people can’t look past the junk
and the smell. They just see the stinky nasty stuff and run away. Most people
don't realize that if they just got the junk out, painted, put down new carpet
and gave it a thorough cleaning, then it would be right back at market value.
The best wedge deals stink and look terrible to the new investors.

Zuber: The best deals are often under a pile of junk, and they
always smell. The best deals have the worst smells. Sometimes you
have to cut out drywall and replace the sub floor because of the darn
cats.

When I think of Wedge Deals, I am left thinking of great owner

occupant deals, great house hacks and tremendous BRRRR
opportunities. For full-time employees looking for easy to manage
rentals, they can be bad choices unless you have teams and systems in
place. Some new investors looking out of state, for example, might be
better off buying turnkey or cleaner properties to save on headaches and
get cash flow sooner.

Nonetheless, understanding the power in wedge deals is a skill we

should all have as you never know when a great opportunity will cross
your path.

Guest: I think new investors can get discouraged when they see other
people killing it and super successful. We need to realize most people only
show the highlight reels and not the struggles all investors have at the start.

Zuber: For all the positives social media brings, it does bring a lot
of negatives. Social media influencers might be killing it now, but you
don’t get to see the early struggles. Gary Vee talks about how cool it
would be to have seen Jeff Bezos back at the beginning of Amazon
when he was personally packaging and shipping books. He looks great
today with his houses, cars, and boats, but let’s never forget he
struggled in the beginning just like all of us.
 Many social media influencers flex online and have nothing behind
them. Many influencers make most of their money online and not in the
field they try to influence. I wish they had to show their tax statements
in order to give Real Estate Investing advice.

Guest: The worst kind of new investors are the ones who believe they
need to write offers on everything. Some gurus must teach their followers to
write terrible offers on every available home. They must think, “If I write
enough offers, I am bound to get a ‘yes’ answer.”

Zuber: I don’t want any of my followers to write offers on every

available home or property. That is one surefire way to get blacklisted
and shared as a problem among other investors.

Only write offers that make sense for your expected return. If you
are writing offers significantly below list price in a very hot market, I
suggest calling the listing agent and introducing yourself and telling
them what you are thinking about and why you have to offer “X”
instead of “Y”. The listing agent might say one of three things: “Thank
you very much, but I already have X offers above list, so don’t bother,”
or “I understand. This house won’t work, but maybe another listing
will,” or “Great! Let’s write it up and see what happens.”

Protect your reputation. In hot markets, call agents and explain to

them why you are offering what you are offering. The worst case is that
this will give you practice in reviewing your numbers, and you will get
to meet more people.

Guest: As long as I keep enjoying what I'm doing, whether that's making
YouTube videos, being a Real Estate broker, or helping people on the live
streams in the course, I'll keep taking whatever money I make and throwing
it into Real Estate investments. Someday I might make that mindset shift and
say, “Let's go into payoff phase and call it a day, but I don’t see doing that
for years to come.

Zuber: This comment has lots of subtle details. He enjoys multiple

streams of income and plans to buy One Rental at a Time with the extra
income. This fits with my experience as I shared in my initial book One
 Rental at a Time. The idea is that over time you enjoy two distinct
phases as a Real Estate Investor.

In the beginning, you establish a large foundation of rentals with

leverage. As you get closer to being done, you will look at your
portfolio and adjust your debt levels. You may focus on paying
everything off, or you might look to adjust equity where some become
paid off and other rise in LTV, providing a blended rate closer to 50%.

Debt will likely always be a part of your portfolio because Real

Estate is a business built on debt, but you could very easily go from
75% LTV across your portfolio to maybe 40-50% at different points of
your investing journey.

Guest: People think I am in the California bubble. The principles of

owning Real Estate, the tax benefits, the appreciation, the getting a good
deal, and the cashflow matter in identifying a wedge deal whether it's in
Indianapolis or Southern California. I don't care what market you are in,
there are wedge deals to be had if you do the work and don’t give up.

Zuber: Our guest is 100% correct. The principles of Real Estate

Investing can be leveraged worldwide. Becoming a great Real Estate
Investor is nothing more than a skill that can be learned and improved
upon year in and year out.

Lots of new investors say their market is too expensive. I

understand that. I wasted a year in my backyard trying to find a deal.
That year of experience looking in my backyard did have some benefits
because I got better at understanding value and properties. Your market
might be expensive, but you can learn the skill of Real Estate Investing
in your backyard and then take that skill on the road as you look for a
different market. Keep doing the work and you will be amazed at what
you learn over time.

There are wedge eeals in every market. They might be hard to find
in a seller’s market, but they are there. In a buyer’s market they are easy
to spot. Keep doing the work because over time the market will change
as it always does.
Value I Took from Interview

One Rental at a Time:

Our guest shared his approach of One Rental at a Time. I’m never
surprised that it works, but I smile every time an investor talks about
their One Rental at a Time approach to their business.

This simple approach increases chances for success, lowers stress,

and allows you to establish and build a solid foundation for the future.
Have you started your One Rental at a Time journey yet?

Multiple Streams of Income:

Our guest has mastered the multiple streams of income approach.

The power comes from choosing what to do with the excess cash.
When Olivia and I were building our portfolio, our extra income was
the commission checks. We lived on our base salary after lowering our
expenses and that allowed us to take the extras and buy more Real
Estate.

Generating multiple streams of income can be a distraction.

Successful people start with one stream, get really good, and then build
the extra streams. Please don’t let the hunt for more streams of income
slow down or hurt your main income stream.

Wedge Deals and 203K Loan:

Wedge deals are available in all markets. They are certainly harder
to find in a hot seller’s market, but they are out there. Understanding
the power of wedge deals is an excellent strategy for home owners to
find and create equity just like my guest did.

If you can find that opportunity, leverage it with a 203K loan to help
with the remodel cost. Fixer upper properties offer tremendous
 opportunities to improve your future via sweat equity or forced
appreciation.

Growth vs Debt Pay Down Mindset:

There is a battle in the investing world where you either love debt
or you are anti debt. Our guest modeled that the choice has to do with
where you are in your investing journey. Are you still building? Then
leverage safe and conservative leverage. Are you near retirement and
near being done? Then start repositioning debt or paying some off.

If you are a Real Estate Investor and Dave Ramsey fan, for
example, you need to get comfortable with 70% LTV in the beginning
and then move to 50% or better LTV as you get ready to retire.

Junky, Smelly Properties:

Real Estate Investing is a people business. In the business you will

run into all kinds of people in all kinds of situations. You may never see
yourself living in a hoarder house or having your pets turn a bedroom
into their own bathroom, but it does happen. Life can be very hard, and
sometimes it can get away from us very quickly. Over the years I have
interacted with sellers who were in bad spots and their stories can be
heartbreaking.

The more junk there is in the house and the more the property
smells, the more help you should give as the owner clearly needs some
help. When you find yourself in these situations, your job is to listen,
help and, if you can, turn that property back into a functioning asset for
you or someone else. Please don’t be that person that celebrates stealing
a property from someone. You should certainly make a fair profit, but
don’t be that person who gets greedy. Karma will remember what you
did and the price to pay later will include interest. Don’t ever be that
person!
 Chapter 11 – Guest Interview: Living
Life by Design while Raising Five Kids
Can you image having five little ones at home and starting a Real Estate
Investing business at the same time? Our guest did that! We are going to
learn how she tackled that amazing task and allowed her business to fit her
lifestyle. Her family comes first! As the kids got older, the business
expanded, and she started tackling more and more projects.

We will hear about the focus on one market, understanding the pain of a
changing lending market, and the importance of getting the right mentor. She
has some amazing ideas such as selling her flips with owner financing and
building a Real Estate note portfolio. We also talk about when and what to
outsource or hire for as your business grows.

There is much to admire about her journey. Her lessons are priceless. I
hope they inspire you.

Building a Business and Raising a Family

Perhaps the most inspirational point about our guest is the

realization that none of us have excuses for not getting started. Our
guest started her Real Estate business as she was raising five kids. This
responsibility meant she had very small chunks of time to learn and
move forward. It also meant her day was difficult to schedule, as babies
have a mind of their own.

Understanding that you can start your Real Estate business and
build around your life is just so powerful. It is inspiring to know that
you can get started when you are young and then ramp up your business
you age. You don’t have to wait to get started. Start learning now.
Execute what you can now. Grow as your time freedom grows.

Building a Note Portfolio

 One of her prime exits from her flips was seller financing. She
would become the bank for her flips. This growing note portfolio
allowed her to build significant monthly income while also providing
flexibility to raise cash by selling the note if her personal situation
required it.

Notes on Real Estate have a lot of value, and there is a secondary

market for them. To adopt this model, you would need to get
comfortable with Mortgage Wraps or other vehicles that I have never
used. If you can find a way to borrow at 7%, add a lot of value, and
then sell on a 9% note, you could make a nice spread.

To date, I have only sold one property with owner financing. It was
a property I owned free and clear. I became the bank.

Business Models Can Suddenly Stop Working

Her amazing business model worked for years. Then, suddenly, it

did not work! The Real Estate market changed overnight when the Fed
raised rates. Buyer demand fell off a cliff. If you were working on flips
—especially high flips—you were in big trouble as your debt structure
likely had high rates and your hold times were extended time and time
again.

Real Estate runs in cycles. Lending also runs in cycles. However,

they don’t sync up. The lending cycle can drive the Real Estate cycle.
The last year or 18 months of the last Real Estate run up was 100%
caused by bad loan products and borrowers getting qualified when they
never should have been qualified. Lending got so tight in 2010 and
2011 that well-qualified investors couldn’t get bank loans. They were
forced to pay cash or borrow hard money, which meant prices had to
come down.

Keep an eye on what is going on with lending. Observe if it is

getting easier or harder to get “yes” answers from banks.

Life by Design
 You can have it all if you plan accordingly and allow your business
to fit your life. Our guest is a mother of five who had to start her
business slowly as her time was rather constrained. As the children
grew older, she could do more projects.

She stayed in one market, built a portfolio of notes, and strategically

decided when to hire people for her business. She is family first and
business second. This attitude has allowed her to maintain a healthy
balance between work and life. She grew her business at the speed she
could work. Living your life on your own terms is amazing to see and
hear.

Get the Most Out of Mentor

Selling mentorship and success is big business, and there are lots of
“Gurus” out there happy to take your money. I can’t believe what they
charge for some secret formula that doesn’t exist. I found my early
mentors in books. I didn’t seek out paid relationships until my portfolio
grew and I had more meaningful questions.

I am not saying “Don’t hire a mentor,” but do yourself a favor in the

beginning and keep your $10K to $20K as a reserve or a down payment
for a house. Simply set tight criteria in your property search and then
look at it every day. You do not need a mentor to simply start learning
your market.

Real Estate Investing starts with focus, daily discipline and

consistent effort. If you can learn what an average deal in your market
is then—Boom!—you have the baseline for only buying good or great
deals.

Power of One Market

I get asked all the time, “Why have you stayed local to one market
for over 20 years?” The question is so frequent that I often break out
one of the canned answers. I might answer, “I’m too lazy to build
another team” or “I have what we need already and don’t want to risk it
all somewhere else.”
 While the canned answers are absolutely true, the real answer is that
I learned my market and I can now jump around different asset classes
as I find value. It takes time and consistent effort to build up this
muscle memory, and I have no interest in learning another market
because my market still treats me well.

Someday, if everything offered produces a negative return, I might

look elsewhere. However, at the moment I am happy and will only buy
good or great deals. I am a very patient buy at this point, and I am ok
waiting months between purchases.

Understand Your Weakness and What You Don’t Like

As you are building your Real Estate business, there will likely
become a time where you can start to hire or outsource tasks that you
don’t like or are a weakness. When that time comes, I strongly
recommend understanding everything you do and looking to first
outsource things you dislike or are weaknesses.

Our guest talks about the breakdown of what to outsource first and
last. The key is to understand what things you can remove and make
your business and your life run better. No one likes doing things they
hate and are bad at. Pay someone else to do them. Our guest leads a life
by design, and it is amazing.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Mother of 5 (28 to 8 Years Old)
Started 2003
Focused on One Market
Flipped Over 100 Houses
Sold Many with Seller Financing and Created Note Portfolio
2008 Scary Market (Can we afford Christmas Presents for Kids)
Father In-Law Sparked Initial Interest in Real Estate
1st Flip was a Half Burned House
 Hire for Your Business by Understanding your Weakness and What you
Don’t Like
Find a Mentor that Matches your Goals and Strategy
Advice – Going deep in one market offers benefits over time
In Their Own Words

Guest: I find it funny how when you really want to do something, you
can build your life around it. That’s what I did. There are seasons in your
life, especially with parenthood. In the season when they’re younger, it’s
tough to get things done. As they grew older, the seasons changed, and I did
more with Real Estate.

Zuber: Our guest in this interview is a mother of five kids and has
built her Real Estate business around being a mom first and Real Estate
entrepreneur second. She has found ways to perform different activities
and manage her business through multiple seasons.

I can’t imagine the challenges in raising five children and building a

Real Estate business, but as our guest says, it is amazing to see what
you can build your life around as you look to tackle more challenges.
Our guest highlights that you can do the work and lay the foundation
for a bigger enterprise as the children grow and become more
independent.

Guest: I've always focused on one market. That's my jam. I know this
market well, and I'm not interested in going to other markets.

Zuber: Amen to this statement. I couldn’t agree more. I get asked

all the time about why I stay in California because it is so anti-business
and anti-landlord. Why don’t I go to Texas where they treat investors
better and you can get a bad tenant out in two weeks instead of 90
days?

As our guest says, I know one market and that is my jam. I have
zero interest in moving or changing markets. Frankly, building a team is
hard work and takes time. I see no interest in trying to do that over
again in a market I don’t know.
 Most markets are big enough for an investor to adjust year in and
year out. For example, I stayed in one market and simply changed to
apartments when houses were too expensive. Since then, I have added a
couple of commercial properties and bought a small office building
because the numbers worked.

Don’t chase markets. Don’t search for the hot market. I’ve seen
terrible teams destroy returns in great markets. Building depth of
knowledge in a single market and having an amazing network is far
better than bouncing around.

Guest: We were buying properties and primarily rehabbing them at the

beginning. We also were buying properties to fix up and sell with owner
financing. By doing that, we built a note portfolio and bought a few rental
properties along the way.

Zuber: What a cool idea to buy, repair and sell on notes. This seller
financing really works if you can borrow cheap, add value during
remodel, and then sell at max price since the investor is the bank. Give
me terms, and I am happy to overpay.

This strategy is not for everyone, especially at the beginning, but it

is a great strategy to understand as markets change over time. This
could become a tremendous strategy to deploy in the right market, such
as a market where rates shoot up fast and no transactions are occurring.
This could be a market where seller financing of your flips becomes
very profitable, assuming your upfront debt structure is right.

Guest: I remember thinking, “Are we going to be able to buy Christmas

presents for the kids this year?” I just had a baby and there was stress in the
back of my mind because there were properties we might not unload, and
nobody was buying notes. Nobody was buying conventional or FHA or
anything like that.

Zuber: Markets change all the time. It may not feel like it if you
have only been in the business 2-5 years, but the market can change in a
moment. If the market changes and your business model relies on a
 single exit point, you can get caught in a really bad spot. If you happen
to have an expensive debt structure, it could get really painful.

Could you imagine have a thriving business and then—Boom!—out

of nowhere the market changes and your business stops? In fairness,
your business doesn’t entirely stop because you are still spending lots
of money each month on overhead and debt. What has stopped is the
replenishment of capital via your planned exit.

I have witnessed several market cycles. Getting caught on the

wrong side of a market turn can be painful. You can alleviate the pain
with multiple exits or a way to stop the bleeding via holding as rentals
or other means until the market comes back.

Please be careful and never get too confident. Markets have a

surprising way of turning when you least expect it.

Guest: We raised our five kids, and we made that business fit our life.
We could have done a lot more deals, but we were busy raising our family
and doing all that it entails. We only did what we needed to do. We didn't do
any more than that. However, when they got older, we took on more and
more projects.

Zuber: Raising five kids is amazing. Raising five kids and building
a Real Estate business at the same time is even more amazing! I can’t
even image running multiple projects and dealing with the daily
surprises brought on by five little ones. I have much respect for our
guest and her husband! Wow!

I am fascinated that our guest seemingly had it all planned out.

They figured out their market, executed a few deals and built a team
while the kids were young. They increased the transaction volume as
time permitted and the kids got older.

They designed their life around their kids first and their business
second while they were young and gradually flipped the script as the
kids got older. This is genius and must have taken a lot of
communication and planning to keep everything moving forward.
 Guest: The one thing that I tell people about working together with your
spouse is that it won’t be easy. Building a business is never easy. Doing it
with your spouse adds potential stress. You have to be able to separate the
business and the personal. This is difficult because it’s tempting to talk about
work all the time. It is fun at first, but it can really start to stress your
relationship.

Zuber: Building a business and raising a family together is hard. It

sounds like there is a lot of potential for fights in the marriage,
especially if roles and responsibilities are not defined up front.
Something that allowed Olivia and I to successfully build our business
together is that we had clear roles and responsibilities since day one. In
addition, Olivia and I worked at different day jobs. We had defined
family time, so our Real Estate Investing time was small. I couldn’t
imagine working in the business full time and then doing all the extras
together.

To make this work I suspect most couples would need to define

roles but also separate home from the office. You can’t let the two
merge. For the sake of the family unit, you need to have defined time
when the phone is off, and that time is only about the family.
Otherwise, burnout could quickly occur.

Guest: I always tell people to know where your strengths and

weaknesses are because it’s important to be self-aware and to know yourself.
What you are good at? What am I not good at? Figure out all the things
you’re doing? It doesn't matter how big or small you think it is, write it
down. Look at where you are strong. Look at the areas where you are not
weak. Figure out how to get those weaknesses off your plate.

Zuber: As you are building out a big business or thinking about

adding team members, I recommend a three-step process to outsourcing
or hiring.

The first step is to sit down and document everything you are doing.
As our guest says, document everything down to the little details. If you
pick up mail at your PO Box once a week, write it on the list.
 The second step is to document what are your strengths and what
are your weaknesses. Be honest with yourself. There is no reason to
sugar coat anything on this list. If you are bad at something, admit it.

The third step is to go through the list and document what you like
to do and what you don’t like to do. Don’t be surprised if your list has
things that you are good at but don’t like doing or a few things you are
bad at but you really like doing.

Outsource or hire for the things you don’t like and for your
weaknesses. Those are easy to get off your plate and should pay
immediate dividends. Once you do that, outsource or hire the things
you don’t like but are good at doing. It is your business so you
shouldn’t do anything you don’t like doing. This would leave you to
tackle things you like but are not good at. You can also outsource these
because other people are better at it than you. This will eventually leave
you with only things you are good at and that you like, which isn’t a
bad day if you ask me.

Guest: I disagreed with my mentor at one point: when to hire. I saw him
answering his phone all the time and having all these headaches that I didn’t
want that in my life.

Zuber: I love this honest reflection of breaking away from her

mentor. Every mentor comes with a set of practices and processes that
made them successful. In this case, her mentor was happy to be
connected to his phone all the time. She said, “No. I need a more
balanced lifestyle.”

When you hire a mentor, know their story and know where they are
coming from. When you appreciate that, it is easy to understand that
their advice may not be right for you given what you want out of the
business.

You may eventually outgrow you mentor. For example, if you

started with the idea of One Rental at a Time but then wanted to
syndicate a 1,000-unit apartment building, then I would be a great fit in
the beginning but a horrible choice for your growth.
 Guest: I've never been a person that had a dream to grow a big business.
I would rather do less deals that are more profitable instead of breaking my
neck trying to do a hundred deals a year or something like you see on social
media.

Zuber: When I talk to many investors or entrepreneurs, they say, “I

want to be the biggest investor in my market! I want to do 100 deals or
flip 50 properties a year.” Those are amazing goals, but some of those
people are only repeating what they heard others say or, even worse,
they are saying what they think I want to hear.

Let me tell it to you straight. I would much rather do five deals a

year that makes me a total of $200K than do 50 deals a year that make
me a total of $400K. I understand that $200K is a lot less than $400K,
but five deals are a lot easier than 50 deals.

If your goal is time freedom and you can survive on $200K, then
why the heck do you want the overhead and extra risk that comes from
running an operation that needs to be fed to turn out 50 deals a year?

Ask yourself what would you rather want? Do you want the
business that does 50 deals a year and makes $400K ($8K per deal), or
do you want the quality of life and freedom that comes from doing five
deals a year and making $200K ($40K a deal)? I know which one I
want.

Guest: Finding a mentor was a game changer for us. We would not have
quickly gotten as far as we did without having a mentor. Seek good mentors
that match your needs. There are a lot of different mentors out there. You
have to connect with yours.

Zuber: You can find mentors anywhere. You don’t have to pay for
them. My mentors started in books. Then I went to blogs. I ultimately
went to BiggerPockets back in the day.

Because of my YouTube channel, I am lucky enough to speak with

seven multi-millionaires every week. These conversations always run
through three topics and are made up on the fly because on each call we
 discuss what happened in our business the previous week. Each series
of discussions is my way of getting one-on-one mentoring from some
of the best and brightest in the business.

I do not recommend paying for mentoring until you have done some
work and started to learn your business. I would much rather work with
a student who has put in some effort and has questions than take
someone from zero to doing the work. That is why I was so hesitant to
offer mentoring as I worked to put everything in my online course
called How to Get Started One Rental at a Time. I want to outline how
to focus, execute daily and build your network. We don’t need to talk
one-on-one until the student has done that work and committed to it.

Let me say it again. You do not have to pay for mentorship because
you can find lots of great resources for free or for the cost of a book.
The best time to pay for mentorship is after you have committed to
doing the work and you are making some progress. A mentor can help
you accelerate or avoid known issues in execution.

Guest: You don't want to go to a mentor with every single problem. You
need to have thought that problem out ahead of time before you go to that
person and say, “I'm having this issue. This is what I think I need to do.
What are your thoughts on it?”

Zuber: I have had thousands of conversations across hundreds of

different topics. Some of those conversations feel like therapy sessions
where the investor just wants to complain and tell me all the reasons
they can’t be successful. Other conversations are profitable discussions
and brainstorming because we work together to diagnose a challenge
and then move on from it.

If you need to vent, look inside your own network. I suspect you
have a friend who would be more than happy to just listen. If, however,
you chose to leverage a paid mentor for this type of activity, don’t be
surprised if those conversations turn shorter and shorter because the
mentor has limited time.
 Your mind is an extremely powerful force. If you believe you can or
you believe you can’t, you are likely right. If you want help and come
prepared and ready to work, then by all means reach out to mentors. If
you want someone who will listen to you complain, then lean on your
personal network since it is much cheaper.

Guest: If you really want to connect with a mentor, find out what you
can do for them. Don’t offer to buy them a cup of coffee. They can buy their
own coffee. Instead, ask yourself, “What am I planning to bring to the table?
Is there something that I can do for them?”

Zuber: Having a life where you desire to help people and desire to
be in position where people seek you out and desire to want a life of
your choosing is hard to achieve. For quite some time, I did my best to
say “yes” to every request, but it became impossible to schedule it all. I
added stress because I wanted to make everyone happy.

It is easier to allocate an hour or so a day to giving back on

YouTube, answering questions and being a guest on other podcasts or
Real Estate meetups. I focus on helping 1 to many as I need to leverage
my time better. Unfortunately I don’t get the same jolt of electricity that
one gets from one-on-one interactions, but it is far more scalable.

I originally created my private Facebook group called One Rental at

a Time Works as a basic FAQ (Frequently Asked Question) repository,
but it has morphed into this place where students are networking,
celebrating deals and answering questions. The private group is free for
my students and is a great place to join if you have Facebook. I call it
the Happiest Place on the Internet.

Value I Took from the Interview

Building a Flexible Business around Your Life:

One of the biggest takeaways from this interview is that Real Estate
Investing and building a Real Estate business can be flexible. Our guest
started her business with little ones at home but scaled her business
when they were old enough to be left alone. If she can start and grow a
 Real Estate business while raising five kids, we can all make progress
on our goals.

Simply said, Real Estate Investing can fit your lifestyle, and it can
evolve as your lifestyle and commitments change. That’s powerful!

Focus on One Market:

There is value in staying focused on one market. Over the years I

have played with the idea of going to other markets. Every time, I came
back to looking at a different asset type in my market. Your network
and your team are more important than the perfect market because a
bad team and network can destroy returns in a great market. Great
teams can help during bad cycles. I cannot see myself leaving my
market because I don’t want to risk building a new team in a new
market.

Understand Your Strength and Your Weakness

I admire the straight-forward nature of our guest. She knew what

she wanted, and she went after it every time. As her business was
growing, she stepped back and identified her strengths and weaknesses.
This allowed her to hire team members to strengthen the business and
improve her quality of life because she no longer does the things she
dislikes.

As you are building out your business, you will have the
opportunity to outsource tasks that you don’t enjoy. This will amazingly
and quickly improve your quality of life. If you don’t enjoy something
it doesn’t get done or doesn’t get done well. Hire someone when
possible.

Doing Less but More Profitable Deals

New investors want to do 100 deals a year. They start building a

team, buying software, and spending huge on marketing. This beast of a
machine might turn out a lot of deals, but what if those deals profit an
average only $6K? Wouldn’t it be better if a one-person business works
for 10 hours a week and does five deals a year and nets $40K per deal?
 Some Real Estate Investors think transaction volume or number of
deals is the magic number. The better metric is quality of life. I would
rather do five deals at $40K profit each than 50 deals at $6K profit
each. My time is worth something and not being stressed everyday with
huge overhead is also worth something.

Getting a Mentor

I believe in mentors. Having different mentors throughout your

journey is helpful. I don’t like the idea of paying for mentorship from
day one. In the beginning, find your mentors in the free world of
YouTube or BiggerPockets or spend a few dollars on books. When I
started, all my mentors were found in books, and I was constantly on
the lookout for more and more information.

As you build a solid foundation, you can seek mentors. However,

you must first know what you want. Then you can seek out the correct
mentor who can help you accelerate your business and avoid obstacles.
 Chapter 12 – Guest Interview: 31 Year
Vet of Real Estate Investing – Didn’t Want
to Work 40 hours for 40 years
You might need to read this chapter twice. This guest was buying houses
in the ‘80s with credit cards. She was afraid of the 40/40 life: working 40
hours a week for 40 years.

You will also read about the hard truth of landlords in their 80s, and why
she chose to unwind her portfolio early and in some creative ways. She
imparts tremendous wisdom about continuing to learn and continuing to
network. Real Estate Investing always offers more to learn.

I found so many things to admire in this interview and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Real Estate Investing Doesn’t Change

You are going to hear some amazing stories. I listened to this

interview more than once. It hit me that Real Estate Investing hasn’t
really changed in over 30 years. You need to learn your market, identify
value, get the money anyway you can, add value, sell, pay off debt and
keep the profit.

Today we might talk about Flipping, Wholesaling, Hard Money, or

BRRRR strategy, but it is ultimately the same business. This made me
happy because I plan to be a Real Estate Investor for another couple of
decades, and it is good to know that my experience will continue to pay
dividends.

The Spark to Start Investing is Powerful

The spark and realization for our guest was that she did not want to
work 40 hours a week for 40 years to be left nearly broke at retirement.
 How many of us are concerned about our financial position at
retirement? I know I was. I so desperately wanted to provide for my
family then and 40 years in the future. It was stressful to think about
before we jumped into Real Estate Investing.

You never know what that spark or excitement will start. In this
case, it was a teacher with a couple of duplexes that sparked her desire
to jump in and learn more.

Unwinding a Portfolio That Took Decades to Build

Many of the readers of this book, followers my YouTube channel

and students of my course are focused on starting or building their
portfolio. You also need to think about how you will unwind as you get
older.

Our guest shares some painful truths about landlords in their 80s. It
would be wise of you to think about how you will slow down or
consolidate as we get closer to the end of this exciting journey we call
life.

Our guest shares exciting things she has done with her portfolio that
have allowed her to remain in the game of Real Estate without the day-
to-day management headaches. I suspect I will follow her path in a
decade or two.

Cash Poor During Build Phase

I remember telling Olivia several times that we are property rich

and cash poor. It is strange how this lifestyle permeates many Real
Estate Investors as they build their portfolio. We cut back on expenses,
produce more bottom line savings or cash, and then we deploy it on a
brand new asset that we add to our portfolio.

Like our guest, this phase felt long. We were in the middle of it but
in reality, it was a small window of time that will pay bigger and bigger
dividends for decades to come. The more cash you can create and
deploy during the build time of your journey the more assets and
opportunities in the future.
 Like our guest, you could sell for cash or carry the note. You could
sit on some cash and enjoy life, or you could become a hard money
lender to a few friends. Being cash poor won’t last forever, but I do
remember the odd feeling that we had assets and very little cash.

Creative Finance with Credit Cards

The ‘80s were a very odd time. Go ahead and look up the fashion of
the day. I will wait. Sorry, I digress.

Our guest highlights how she leveraged her great credit and her
ability to get credit cards to buy junk properties. Can you imagine
buying a property with a credit card when no bank would touch it? She
did it and built wealth.

Appreciate what was done decades ago. The means might be

different today, but the basic principles are similar. This gives me
tremendous confidence that we can all learn the basics and move
forward for decades.

Never Stop Learning

Our guest shares a very inspirational story about why she got
started. Simply said, she saw someone living the life she wanted, so she
dove in and started learning everything she could. It started with asking
her friend lots of questions. Then she made many trips to bookstores.
(There was no Amazon in the ‘80s.) Then she had Real Estate meetings.

This desire to learn and gain knowledge should never stop with an
investor. Real Estate Investing is a huge world, and you can still be
learning after 31 years. This idea does not give you permission to keep
learning and never take action. Quite the contrary. I ask you to focus,
learn your market, and then execute. Once you are in your market for a
few years you can start to expand to other asset types, other markets, or
other Real Estate options.

Never stop learning. It was powerful to hear our guest say this as
one of her final thoughts.
 Seller Financing and Becoming A Hard Money Lender

I never really thought about what I would do when I started to wind

down. I have been so focused on building and helping others build that
I never really thought back and asked, “What should I do as I get much
older?”

Our guest lays out some hard truths about much older landlords, and
it hit me that I should have a plan long before I get to 80 years old. It is
hard for me to internalize, but I am nearly halfway to 100, so 80 is a lot
closer than I want to admit. Our guest lays out some great ideas and
ones I will likely follow in a couple of decades.

Enjoy!

Guest Details
Investing for 31 Years
Leveraged Credit Cards to Start in 1980s
Currently Selling Off Portfolio via Owner Carry
Does Some Hard Money Lending Today
Has Only One Rental Left Today
Older Landlords don’t Usually do a Great Job as the get over 80+ years
Old
Focused on One Market
Managed Her Portfolio Over Years and Sold Off Worst Property
Active Buyer for 25 Years
Advice: Never Stop Learning
In Their Own Words

Guest: I have been investing for 31 years, and I only have one rental left.
I have a number of properties that I've sold with owner financing as I was
getting out. Some of the lower end properties I sold with owner financing to
either current tenants or people I found who needed that lower end housing
and wanted to buy it. I like selling them on owner financing, as it's still
monthly income. I also do some hard money lending to investors I have
known for decades.

Zuber: It is not too often that I get to speak with an investor that
has an extra decade of experience in Real Estate. Hearing her story and
understanding how she is choosing to wind down her portfolio is
amazing. I have thought about what to do if we want to unwind our
portfolio.

The approach of selling some for cash and some on owner financing
is a great balance as it gives you lumps of cash and monthly income to
enjoy as you enjoy the rest of your life. She uses the lumps of cash to
be a hard money source for other investors. I like this idea because she
focuses her money on investors that have long track records with her.

Guest: When I sell one of my properties owner financed I usually get 8%

interest. That is especially good when you consider most of my properties
went up 100-200% while I held them. It's really a nice monthly income. It is
a little disappointing not to get that depreciation and to have to pay Uncle
Sam big chunks of money. You’re going to pay him now or pay him later. I
guess I'm paying him later.

Zuber: Wow! Can you imagine building a portfolio of buy and hold
rentals over three decades and then selling them off one at a time and
getting 8% interest as the bank via Seller Financing? Think about what
you could have bought houses for 20 years ago and then do the math at
8% interest. That is some good money.

Selling via owner financing is called an “Installment Loan.” You

only pay taxes on the payments you receive, not the full sale price. If
managed correctly, you could keep you yearly income below federal
income tax limits.

I find it amazing that Real Estate Investing offers all these great
ways to get started, but it also offers some tremendous ways to exit
Real Estate when you want to unload your portfolio over time.
 Guest: I was a buy and hold investor, but each year I would look at the
properties I didn't particularly like. You'll always have one or two that give
you more problems than the others. Maybe the neighborhood is not good or
you have lousy neighbors on each side of the house. I get rid of those
because I want my life to be as easy as I can make it. I would take the ones I
didn't like and sell those each year or two.

Zuber: I really like this strategy, especially when you get past 10
rentals. I didn’t prune our portfolio of problem properties until a few
years ago. I wish I had talked to our guest five years earlier because I
would have sold off one or two properties and reduced our issues by
30-40%. Sometimes a property is just in a weird little pocket of activity,
and it just doesn’t perform as well as others in the same neighborhood.
As our guest indicated, it can sometimes come down to the neighbors
on either side of you.

Going forward, Olivia and I will look at our portfolio at every year
end to see if one property is underperforming and causing the most
issues. I agree with our guest. If you can trim off the bad property and
destress your life, then make it happen and then go buy a better
property to replace the cash flow you just gave up.

Guest: I think combining both buy and hold with flipping is a nice
strategy these days. Investors that I lend to typically do both. They have
some rentals, but they're always looking for a good flip. If the market softens
there will be less of that flipping going on. You don’t want to get stuck with
a high-end house.

Zuber: As investors gain experience, they should add multiple exit

strategies. However, I appreciate that many people who follow One
Rental at a Time are full-time employees looking to add rental
properties to improve their financial future. If this is you, it is 100%
okay to focus on only buy and hold rentals for the first 10 years. After
that, if you want to spice it up a little and leverage your experience and
network to flip a house or two, go for it.

If you are a full time Real Estate Investor or entrepreneur, I strongly

recommend that you focus on long term wealth with buy and hold
 rentals and chunk money with flips or wholesale. If you never keep
anything, you just have a job, and I thought you got into Real Estate for
wealth creation.

Guest: I started hard money lending to investors I knew after I sold a few
of my properties. I suddenly had money which was so odd because I never
had piles of cash while building my portfolio. I had always been someone
who flipped or sold a house and used the money to buy something else or
pay off some debt. For three decades I never kept lots of cash in my hands.

Zuber: I see why she started to lend hard money. It was odd to have
piles of cash that weren’t committed to other investments or debt. Like
our guest, I went nearly two decades without having a lot of cash
because we bought another asset every time I built a sizable chunk of
cash.

I have never done a hard money loan, but it is interesting to think

about as an option for the future. Maybe I can get 10-12% and couple
of points on an asset that I know. Like our guest, I would likely be
hyper focused and only lend money to a handful of folks in my network
because I don’t need more risk.

Guest: The way I bought for years was unusual because I had very good
credit and I wanted to buy those houses that were not habitable and banks
said, “No.” I kept applying for credit cards. I had a stack of them, and I
would buy the houses via credit cards. I would buy a disgusting house and
rehab it with those credit cards. Kind of crazy to think about today, but in the
late ‘80s I did this over and over again.

Zuber: Can you imagine buying multiple properties on credit

cards? Can you imagine the stack of credit cards she must have had?

I never asked, but I suspect most of her purchases were 100%

financed via credit cards. When she sold or refinanced with a bank, she
went back and paid off the credit card and kept the leftover profit.

Not sure how banks and financial institutions would look at this
practice today. I suspect your credit would be hit if all your new cards
 were maxed out. That would impact your refinance if that was your
exit. However, if your exit is a sale, leveraging credit cards makes
sense, but you must be careful. I have never used credit cards to buy
properties or even finance the down payment, but you got to do what
you got to do!

Such a great story to hear about what investors were doing in the
1980s to build their portfolios from scratch.

Guest: I think the Real Estate market is really changing. I see the baby
boomers selling their homes. They raised their families, and now they're
moving and renting in other parts of the country. Then you have the
millennials coming in who can't buy because they are under so much debt
that they cannot even begin to think about buying a house.

Zuber: Something we should never forget as investors is that the

residential Real Estate market is dominated by owner occupant buyers.
When generational shifts happen or maybe lending tightens on owner
occupants, it can really impact the single family market. Investors are
important in the single family market, but we are not the dominant
force and need to watch what is going on in the bigger market of owner
occupants.

Along those lines, it would be a good idea to see how Baby

Boomers and Millennials are playing in your investment market. Are
Millennials moving to your city in great numbers? Are Baby Boomers
moving out and downsizing? You don’t have to watch these trends as
frequently as some of your market metrics, but discern which
generation is going and which is coming, as it could impact Real Estate
investments for decades to come.

Guest: During my 31 years of investing, I remember a couple of times

where there were too many rentals out there and the landlord no longer was
in control of what rent they could charge. When that happens you either
offer a really nice place or you need to lower your rents and fill up your
place and wait for better days.
 Zuber: The wisdom in this simple message is so powerful. We are
investing over decades, and there could come a time that there are too
many rentals in your market. If that happens, then you either focus on
price or on having the highest quality.

I’ve been in this industry for over 20 years and have seen a couple
of Real Estate rental cycles. The most painful one was when anyone
could buy a house between 2006-2007. During this period, I was
constantly losing tenants to home ownership and needed to run rent
specials all the time.

In the end, landlords sometimes will have pricing power and

sometimes they won’t.

Guest: When I started, I was raising teenagers. Real Estate helped me

keep an eye on them. When they were too old to leave with a sitter, they
could get into way more trouble. That's when I started buying Real Estate,
and it turned out to be a real fit for my personality.

Zuber: When I speak with successful Real Estate Investors, I

always try to figure out the “why” behind starting their business. I then
consider why their “why” was strong enough to keep them going during
the good and bad days. As our guest shared her “why,” it was very clear
to me that the “why” would pull her through the bad days.

Family is a dominate force amongst Real Estate Investors. Some

start because they recently had a child. Others start when their kids start
school. Some start because it enables them to be home with the
teenagers. Your reason for starting is very personal. Your reason—your
“why”—has to be your personal reason. It can’t be someone else’s
reason. You can’t borrow someone else’s “why” because it sounds
good.

Guest: My fear was staying in my job and being one of those old ladies
eating cat food one day. That was all I needed as a motivator. I didn’t want to
work 40 years at a job to be left eating cat food or lower my standard of
living. That would have been an utter failure.
 Zuber: Working 40 Hours for 40 Years is tremendous, if that is
what you choose to do. If you love your job and you like living for the
weekend, then go nuts. However, if working 40 hours for 40 years
scares you to death—as it did our guest—then it’s time to step up.

A better financial future is actually quite easy. Start living below

your means. Trust me. I know what it feels like to spend every dollar
you make because I did it for 10 years and it was a mistake. Once I
understood that I could choose to spend less, I asked simple questions
like, “Is this a want or a need?” It became clear where I was spending
my money and where I didn’t need to spend.

We started by lowering expenses by 10%. After several years, we

peaked at saving nearly 50% of our income. You may not be able to get
to 50%, but I bet everyone reading this could find a way to cut 10% of
their spending in six months.

Real Estate is not a get-rich-quick business, but it is a get-rich-for-

sure business. If you are ready to do the work, the How to Get Started
One Rental at a Time online course could be for you.

Guest: I got the idea from a schoolteacher who owned two duplexes. I
saw her taking vacations and living a lifestyle that a schoolteacher could not
afford. I desperately needed to find something else to do because my job
would not afford that lifestyle. I picked her brain for a little while. I read 13
books before I bought that first property. Never forget that the first one is
always the hardest. From there I went to Real Estate meetings every month
and people helped me along the way. I simply never stopped learning.

Zuber: Wow! So much value in this simple statement. Her friend

inspired her and then she had the nerve to pick her friend’s brain and
figure out what was going on. From there she kept digging in and
reading books. This was the 1980s with no Internet! Then she went to
Real Estate Meetings. Today they are called Meet Ups.

The most important thing in her statement is the last line. She never
stopped learning, and she just kept moving forward as she desperately
 wanted a better life. She wanted the extras and to stay home and watch
those teenage boys.

Guest: I have watched people in their seventies who've been doing Real
Estate their whole life. If they don't start selling some of their properties
early, they get stuck with them. All of a sudden, they realize that they should
have sold some of them five or ten years earlier. They get too tired to take
care of them. They are even too tired to get tenants and then the properties
are hard to sell.

Zuber: I hear investors say, “I want to buy from frustrated or tired

landlords.” Why do people say that? If the owner is older, there is a
good chance they own the property free and clear, and, thus, can take a
discount to simply get rid of a headache. I have in fact bought a few
properties from landlords that were tired, and they let their properties
fall into disrepair.

Hearing our guest paint this picture inspired me to sell before I’m
too old to deal with the headaches of being a landlord. To be clear, my
headaches are mitigated because I pay a property manager. I just don’t
want to be that tired landlord who sells too late and has to take a
discount just to get rid of a problem or headache.

Guest: I've never met anybody in their eighties who was still doing a
good job of being a landlord.

Zuber: This statement hit me pretty hard. I plan to live well past
80. Before I heard this statement, I had never really put much thought
into when to unwind our portfolio. In addition, I have to agree with her.
Some of the roughest properties I have purchased were from landlords
that owned the property free and clear. The rents were 70% of market,
and the tenants never complained. The landlords were always over 75,
and they just couldn’t do it anymore. As long as rent was paid, they just
kept cashing the checks without repairing the properties.

After this conversation, I decided that I will not buy properties after
I am 70. In the worst case, I will start to liquidate (in a tax-efficient
manner) when I turn 75. Why not enjoy the last couple of decades with
 no landlord headaches? Maybe I will dabble in hard money lending to
stay engaged, but no more property buying.

Value I Took from Interview

1980s Zero Down with Credit Cards:

I found it fascinating to see how creative zero-down Real Estate

was done in the ‘80s. To think about having a stack of credit cards on
the table and thinking, “Which one am I going to use today?” had to be
interesting.

This guest reminded me that the basic principles of Real Estate

Investing haven’t changed in 30+ years. She was buying distressed
properties for cash (her credit cards), fixing them up, and then either
selling or refinancing with a bank after the remodel. Our guest was
basically flipping or executing the BRRRR strategy decades before any
TV shows.

In the end, she created value and recycled capital via her credit
cards and peeling off her profit after every successful exit.

Never Stop Learning:

To hear a veteran Real Estate Investor say she never stopped

learning is just so awesome. In the ‘80s, it was a lot harder to network
and find information. You really had to go out—yes, I mean go outside
—and actively seek it. You could not just sit on your couch and browse
different videos.

As our guest highlighted, learning should come from lots of

sources: books, podcasts, videos, forums, online courses and meetups.
Do yourself a favor and never stop learning and never stop networking.
The more people you know and the more that know you, the better off
you will be.

Sell with Owner Carry:

 We have sold one building on owner carry during the last 20 years,
but as our guest highlighted it will become a strategic part of our plan
as we look to exit in the decades to come. Seller financing keeps
income and lowers the tax burden as I look to manage the income year
to year.

I like seller or creative financing so much that I added a bonus

section to my online course called How to Get Started One Rental at a
Time. Creative financing works best when the seller has a lot or very
little equity. (We discuss both in the bonus section.) I really like the idea
of keeping monthly income and lowering my tax burden because my
Real Estate will be sold or recognized as an “installment sale,” meaning
I only pay taxes on money received.

Landlords in Their ‘80s Don’t Do a Great Job.

This idea really hit me hard. I agree with it. I try and stay active and
healthy, but the human body ages, and at some point, it is time to just
slow down. I will need to start differently positioning my property
portfolio as I get to my mid-60s.

My goal will be to have a small portfolio that I will pass on to my

daughter, probably a set of seller financed notes to keep some income
and then a bunch of cash to party with because I can’t take it with me!!

Cash Poor to Hard Money Lender

Like our guest, I know what it feels like to be constantly “Cash

Poor.” During the first two decades of building our portfolio, we
constantly saved and invested as soon as we could. When deals got
really good, we doubled down by taking on more personal debt.

After leaving my day job, it felt odd to sell a couple of properties

and see some real cash in the bank. I got over it rather quickly because I
simply stopped looking at it. At this point, my cash is simply dry
powder for the next deal, but as I age I can see becoming a hard money
lender to some close contacts. That activity still keeps you in the game
of Real Estate without much of the daily headaches. It’s certainly not
risk free, but it’s certainly less active management.
 Chapter 13 – Guest Interview: Lost 10
Years of Experience and Growth because
of Terrible First Deal
In this interview I spoke to a friend that has decades of experience. He
made a mistake that stopped him for 10 years. Time freedom eventually
motivated him to focus to again and dominate his area. He believes and
teaches “Your Network is Your Net Worth.”

He has some crazy accomplishments. Who wouldn’t want to do 100

transactions their first year or average 50 flips a year? Pay special attention
to the mistake that cost him 10 years because I see new investors rushing to
do a deal without putting in the homework or establishing basic systems and
processes to protect themselves.

I found so many things to admire in this interview and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Time Freedom is a Tremendous Motivator

Understanding your “why” for getting into Real Estate Investing is

important because you will lean on it throughout your journey. Real
Estate Investing offers many wonderful days, but it also has some days
that can cause stress. When you have the power of your “why” to back
you up, you can get through anything because the bad passes much
faster than you think.

Think about your “why” and use it as fuel you can tap into
whenever you need it. Securing time freedom and the option to spend
your time how you choose is a wonderful motivator.

Focus on First Deal

 During this interview you will learn the importance of focusing on
the first deal. Not investing in Real Estate for ten years, essentially gave
this guest two first deals. They had two very different outcomes. The
first story begins with a rushed decision to buy a cheap duplex with no
experience or thoughts of being a landlord. This decision leads to stress
and ultimately a loss of money.

The second “first deal” comes after losing 10 years to that negative
first experience. After 10 years, our guest decided he wanted to escape
his full-time job and jumped into Real Estate wholesaling. After a slow
start, he achieved proof of concept and then jumped on the gas, doing
over 100 transactions in his first year.

When you are starting out, you need to focus on that first deal and
not rush just because something is cheap or you think you are behind.
First learn the market and network. Once you purchase your first, learn
all that property has to teach before you buy a second property.

Network is Net Worth

Our guest is the first person to introduce to me this simple yet

powerful concept. For too long, I felt the answer lived in Excel or in the
comfort of my own home. Unfortunately, that is not true because real
wealth in Real Estate comes from having an ever-growing network.
Over time your network will actually bring you deals, it will bring you
access to cheap capital, and it will bail you out of sticky situations when
you need a favor.

I make it a point of challenging new investors to grow their network

every week. I want you to know more people and I want more people to
know you, but what I really want is for others to know what you are
looking to buy. That is the key: how many people know what you are
looking to buy in your market?

Focus below the Median for Market

I look for cash flow rentals, and those are usually found in most
markets below the median price of the market. Like our guest, I also
 recommend new investors initially focus below the median price in
their market. I find this market is rather challenging, but it also provides
the most protection from errors in calculations.

When you get above the median, you take on more market risk as
external factors could disrupt your plan. For example, if you are
flipping high-end homes and interest rates suddenly jump, or we enter a
deep recession, you could be left holding the bag as the property sits on
the market month after month with no buyers. However, if you focus
below the median, you have more exit strategies and cheaper holding
costs.

From 100 Wholesale Deals to 50 Flips a Year

You are going to read about an investor who did his first deal all
wrong, lost 10 years, but then came back strong. He left his day job and
then did 100 wholesale deals in his first year. Shortly thereafter, he
moved to flips. When I interviewed him, he averaged 50 flips a year.

In this interview I am once again reminded that investors can

achieve amazing things in this business if they focus and invest the time
to get better at their craft day in and day out.

What are You Grateful for?

Our guest shared a simple exercise that allows you to get in the
right mindset. By simply asking yourself, “What am I grateful for?”
you appreciate what you have as you look to tackle new challenges in
the future.

Sometimes in Real Estate you will have bad days or negative

surprises. It is in those moments that this simple activity will put you in
the right state of mind to tackle the issue and move on. Sometimes we
just have to slow down and appreciate what we have and where we are
at.

Buy and Hold with Cashflow Means You Can Hold through Drops in
Value
 One of the greatest lessons I took from the 2008 crash and from this
guest’s story is that you should never bet on appreciation with your buy
and hold properties. If the market turns against you and appreciation
goes negative, most investors will give up, take the loss, and destroy
their credit for 7 years. It is no fun to see your properties fall in value.
However, if they have cash flow, you can hold long term and values
will likely storm back at some point.

Never build a buy and hold portfolio of rentals that requires

appreciation to make the deal work. If you execute this strategy too
many times, it will eventually catch up with you as market run in
cycles.

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Invests In Richmond, Virginia
Engineer Who Was Constantly Traveling
Focused on Properties Below Area Median
First Investment Property Total Loser, Buy and Hold Rental
Lost a Decade After First Mistake in Real Estate
Started Wholesaling to Replace Income
Started to Flip Once Capital Built
Addicted to Deals Now
Has 10 Flips in Process Now
Advice: Get Educated so you Don’t Lose a Decade Like I did
In His Own Words

Guest: I don't really love going much above median in my market.

Typically, our retail flips will be $200K to $275K. I've got a few right now
that are a little higher between $350K to $500K. I don't do a lot in this part
of the market because it gets riskier as you go higher. If interest rates jump
or something shocks the market, your buyer pool plummets when you’re not
invested below the median in your market.

Zuber: There are investors that focus on high-end markets and

luxury homes in nearly all markets. As our guest highlights, this can be
a risky strategy as the high end buyer is very fickle and they can change
their mind very quickly because of external shocks.

When you are starting out, I strongly suggest you play in the market
that is about 80% of the median for your area. You can still lose money
in this part of the market, but you have more potential buyers and exits,
so the chance of significant loss is reduced.

Playing in a part of the market that is over 50% of the local median
can lead to very large gains, but it can also lead to long holds and
significant losses if the remodel is not to the buyer’s liking. Our guest is
a pro with decades of experience, so he can make the leap to this part of
the market. I caution any new flipper or investor to start in a lower
priced segment of the market.

Guest: In the last three years, we have completed 40 to 50 projects a

year, about one a week. Right now, we're working on 10 houses which
means lots of contractors and lots of materials and lots of check writing.

Zuber: Can you image doing 50 flips a year? Can you imagine
running 10 projects at the same time? Can you image the amount of
working capital it takes to run a flipping business like this? Does this
kind of scale scare you or excite you?

No one simply starts a flipping business and instantly does 50 flips

out of the gate. It takes time, experience, teams and plenty of systems
and process to run a large operation. It is absolutely possible, as our
guest shows us. You need to run an operation at the size and scale
where you are comfortable. If that is 5 flips or 12 flips or 100 flips,
those are all great goals. However, you must realize that the more you
do, the more working capital and risk you add to the system. You can’t
be everywhere all the time. You will have to rely on your system and
team members.
 Running a flipping business is awesome because you get to execute
and run the business size that you feel good about running. You, the
investor, get to control the size and scale of the business.

Guest: I have a very large contractor pool that we rely on to complete

our projects. We have a lot of crews because we sub out the work, pay labor
and buy the materials. That's how we do it.

Zuber: Bigger flippers are more likely to buy material and just pay
the contractor labor. Since my business is much smaller, I have chosen
to bid the full job which is the material and labor combined.

One large operation I know routinely gets about 100,000 reward

points a month that they use for quarterly and monthly travel. If you
live in the market where you invest, purchasing your own materials can
be great. I am nearly 3 hours away from my market, so I have chosen to
pay for the full job instead of trying to build up points by buying
material.

Constantly network with contractors and building out teams in this

business. You can have a main team or two, if size permits, but you can
never stop networking. You never know if a contractor will be busy,
move or retire. Meet more and more contractors or sub-contractors
every month because those extra relationships could save you in the
future.

Guest: We started Real Estate Investing the wrong way decades ago. I
should have known, but I didn’t, and it cost us a decade. We took 10 years
off after that first bad experience. We bought a junky duplex for $20K. I had
no property management skills, no landlord training, and I did everything
wrong. We didn't have money to do the repairs. It was a painful first
experience that showed we didn’t do our homework before jumping in and
assuming we knew everything.

Zuber: When our guest shared this painful story, I could feel his
pain and frustration. The pain wasn’t because of the lost money. It was
from staying out of the market for a decade. I understand the
discouragement.
 What mistakes did our guest make? He bought junk because of
price and not value. He didn’t seek out mentors and other investors for
some knowledge.

Our guest now believes “Your Network is your Net Worth” and he
still spends his time and growing his network after 20 years in the
business. Our guest exemplifies the importance of investing in learning
the basics and seeking mentorship from others who are active in your
market or area of expertise.

Mistakes happen in this business. It is far more powerful to learn

from them and move forward than to simply drop out of the business
and let 10 years of appreciation, inflation and learning get away from
you.

Guest: At the end of the first property investment, it was so frustrating.

My wife said, “I don't ever want to be a landlord and again!” It took us 10
years for her to be willing to try again.

Zuber: Getting full support of your significant other is critical. It is

equally important to keep that 100% buy-in going forward. I find that
overcommunication is better as you are learning your market, working
through challenges and ultimately winning the game of Real Estate
Investing.

Do yourself a favor and never take the support of your significant

other for granted as you will need it when challenges arise. You want
your partner excited by the good days, and you want their support
during the bad days. You two are in this together as a team. Never
forget that.

Guest: I had no training. I didn't even know what a lease was. I didn't
know how to screen tenants. I didn't even know a property manager existed.
I would work my day job, and then I'd meet people in need of housing and I
rushed to get somebody in there. No process, no screening. It was a disaster
of my own making.
 Zuber: Hopefully you see all the errors. Lack of basic process
means you are likely to end up with a bad tenant that is going to run
you ragged and take total advantage of you. Self-managing your
properties is actually fairly common amongst mom and pop landlords.
Self-management does not mean you can ignore process and
procedures. You can’t wing it and hope it works out long term.

If you are going to self-manage, please setup processes and

procedures for tenant selection, rent collection, repairs, late notices,
evictions, etc. The greatest task of a landlord is to setup their tenant
selection criteria ahead of time. This keeps you from trouble with Fair
Housing by discriminating against applicants for any reason. Every
application should go through the same filter, and you accept the first
one who hits all the criteria. Don’t make exceptions to your criteria.
Lower rent if you can’t find the right tenant.

Guest: I still have some houses I bought right before the bubble burst, so
I was upside down on those for a while. However, they always cash flowed
so I could hold them. The cool thing about Real Estate is it is pretty
forgiving over time as all those properties are now worth more and they have
more cash flow now.

Zuber: Our guest did this right! So many people in my circle

bought negative cash flow properties and bet on appreciation to bail
them out before the last crash. Thus, when the crash happened these
investors gave up because they carried negative cash flow properties
every month. Our guest had cash flow. Even though the properties
dropped in value, he didn’t have to think about selling because the
positive cash flow meant he was being paid to hold on. Why sell to
recognize a loss when you have positive cash flow and can just hold
on?

In my first book I called negative cash flow properties “Alligators”

because I want investors to stay away from Alligators because they eat
your hard-earned money every month. Real Estate cycles come and go,
but if you have positive cash flow, you can hold on and let the market
return and even go higher, as our guest was able to do.
 Guest: I'm addicted to doing deals because it is so much fun. I really do
have trouble saying no to a deal sometimes, even if we have a full slate of
projects.

Zuber: I found that the longer you are in the Real Estate Investing
business the more likely you are to become a deal junkie. I find that
experienced investors think creatively, have great networks, and tell
everyone they meet what they do so they have consistent deal flow.

The more opportunities you can consider, the more likely you are to
do a deal. The game of Real Estate Investing can become a lot of fun
once you learn your market, build a great network, and execute a few
deals. The first deal is the hardest and each subsequent deal gets easier
and easier.

Have a limit on how many projects you want to run at one time.
Even the best investors could have too many deals going on, causing
wasted cash to be spent on holding cost and poor quality as jobs run
unchecked for too long.

Guest: I was always gone because of my day job. For example, my wife
bought our house when I was in Mexico. Then I was in England when the
moving truck showed up. Three weeks later they sent me to China. That is
not freedom. That was when the light bulb went off that I needed to do
something else.

Zuber: Real Estate Investing is a tremendous business and if you

chose to work it full time you can do it just like this guest. You can also
choose to take the slow route by building a portfolio of rentals over a
decade like Oliva and I did. Either way Real Estate Investing does offer
you away to reclaim your time.

Whenever someone asks, “How are you doing?” I answer, “Every

day is Saturday!” I always thought Saturday was the best day of the
week because I could truly relax and spend time with my family. When
I was working, I was gone most Sundays because I was flying
somewhere for Monday meetings. Saturdays were my only days to
 relax and recharge over a decade. Today every day is Saturday because
every day I get to pick what to do and when to do it.

Real Estate Investing and Getting Our Money Right over 10 years is
what allowed us to finally enjoy the fruits of our labor. You can do it,
too, but it will take focus, daily execution and some sacrifice.

Guest: I started out wholesaling because I had to replace my income

ASAP. My girls were in eighth or ninth grade and I needed to pay for their
college. I did 120 deals in my first year after struggling to get started. Once
you have proof of concept, you just step on the gas and keep going.

Zuber: I love the stories our guest brings us. Can you imagine
jumping into Real Estate Investing with little experience and children at
home? Talk about a fire in your belly to get going and not fail!

As our guest shows, getting the first deal or two is the hardest
because you need to learn the process and the ins and outs of your Real
Estate market. However, once you have proof of concept and a few
checks in the bank, you can really step on the gas and go big really fast.
I can’t even imagine doing 120 deals in a year. That is amazing.

In order to do that many transactions and juggle that many leads,

escrows, and closing, our guest had to be committed to 8- or 10-hour
days and treat it like his 9-5 job. In the beginning there was no room for
half days or taking weeks off.

If you desire a more flexible lifestyle, you certainly can go that

direction, but it will come with tradeoffs because you should not expect
to do the same kind of volume working part time as you could working
full time.

Guest: Most of us that do this business full time for decades have a few
losses. We just get up and keep moving forward. We do this business
because we thoroughly love what we do, and we like the challenge.

Zuber: The longer you are in this business, the more likely you are
to make a mistake and lose some money on a deal or two. It happens as
markets can change quickly. It happens when you have to fix a nasty
 surprise in a remodel that adds no end value to the house and costs you
a lot of money.

Losses happen in this business. You must learn from them. You
must not beat yourself up because you will have a lot more wins than
losses. When you love what you do, it is easy to take a few lumps along
the way and keep moving forward.

Guest: Everyone should start to think about their goals for the next 12
months. What should you focus on? What if this year is going to be the best
year of your life? What would it look like? Which relationships do you need
to solidify in your family, or among friends, or in your Real Estate network?
What would the best year of your life look like? What would make you
happy? What five things would make you happy? What are five things
you're grateful for today?

Zuber: Thinking about the next 12 months is amazing advice. I find

too many investors spend time thinking about this week or maybe this
month. However, with Real Estate Investing I want you to appreciate
how much you can grow inside of one year. It is empowering to realize
that the next year of your life could be the best. Thinking about your
relationships is also great advice because Real Estate Investing is a
people business. Lastly thinking about the five ways you are grateful is
a great idea that helps you focus on why you are doing this.

Value I Took from Interview

Do Your Homework Before Jumping In:

I know you are excited about Real Estate Investing, but excitement
does not give you permission to go too fast. Our guest jumped in too
quick, got a cheap duplex and then did everything wrong. That painful
experience stopped his Real Estate journey for 10 years, and that loss of
time hurts.

Do the work up front. If you simply learn your market, grow your
team, and execute on a good or great deal, you will have a much better
start than our guest. After you get your first one, keep putting in the
 work, but give it a few months before you add number two because you
want to make sure you enjoy being a landlord.

Going Too Quick Could Cost 10 Years:

Realize that going too fast can have much bigger downside risk than
simply losing a little money. Our guest’s first experience was so bad
that he stayed out of investing for 10 years. Those 10 years of deals and
gains would have allowed our guest to leave his day job earlier.

That first painful experience also turned off his wife to future Real
Estate Investing. That was another obstacle to getting back in. Going
too fast can cost you in so many ways. If you do the work and share
what you are learning, it will help you stay on the same page instead of
having painful memories.

Self-Management Can Work or It Can Go Badly:

I know lots of great investors who have chosen to self-manage their

Real Estate portfolio. The ones that do it well have systems and
processes in place to select and manage tenants. If you just buy a rental
and try and manage it ad hoc, it could end very badly.

Being a landlord is a job. Learn how to select tenants. Treat it like a

job because your tenants must understand the process and procedures.
You both need to know how to call for repair requests. You both need to
know the process to pay rent and late penalties.

If you move warm bodies into your units without defined criteria, it
will eventually go badly.

Once Proof of Concept You Can Really Accelerate:

Once you have a proof of concept that a certain strategy works, you
can really jump on the gas and accelerate it, if that is what you chose. In
this interview, we learned how he went from initial struggles to
successful proof of concept to over 100 deals in his first year.
 Real Estate Investing allows you the opportunity to build a portfolio
or a business at your chosen speed, but it must start with executing a
successful proof of concept. This builds confidence in investors because
it gives them physical evidence that they can make money in this
business.

Deal Junkie

Like our guest I consider myself to be a deal junkie because there is

just something fun about finding or uncovering value. Real Estate
absolutely runs in cycles. You will have times where deals are plentiful
and others where they are hard to come by. If you are a deal junkie, you
will be excited every day because you never know where you will find
the next deal.

As Real Estate Investors gain momentum, they expand the number

of ways they find and transact deals. Maybe they start out as
wholesalers like our guest, but then they move into flips, and maybe
even buy and hold. These additional avenues mean the investor has
more ways to find and produce profit.

Being a deal junkie is a lot of fun but be cautious about

overextending yourself with too many projects. If you have reached
your project limit, look for ways to either delay closing until you can
sell a few of your existing projects or pass the new lead onto someone
else and get a finder’s fee or other compensation.
 Chapter 14: Guest Interview: Going All
in With 100% Support of the Significant
Other
In this interview you will hear about a young man who jumped out of the
corporate world, took on lots of debt and bet on himself. You will hear about
lean times, stress between checks and the support of his significant other.

You will also hear how inspiring others, leading teams and growing a
rental portfolio has led to true wealth and an amazing quality of life. I don’t
recommend this strategy for everyone, but in this case, you can’t argue that
it was the right step at the right time because our guest simply crushed it!

Have you ever dreamed of going to work and just quitting your job? This
interview is for you!

I found so many things to admire in this interview and the lessons are
priceless. I hope you are as inspired by what follows as I was.

Jumping Off the Corporate Ladder

Who hasn’t thought about jumping off the corporate ladder?

Imagine walking into the office one day and saying, “See you later,
suckers! I am out of here!” Real Estate Investing can provide that
avenue or off ramp as our guest’s story exemplifies.

Our guest’s story starts with lots of debt and no deal flow but ends
with 25 rentals and a thriving business with consistent deal flow.

100% Support from the Significant Other

Real Estate Investing takes both time and dollar commitments. This
guest jumped in with both feet. When starting a brand new business that
 will take long hours, have lots of stress, and not guarantee income, you
must be on the same page as your significant other.

If you are both not on the same page, then don’t make the leap.
Extra stress and the unknowns will pile up and cause too much family
stress on top of business stress. If you don’t have 100% support, find a
way to start part time, learn your market and bring your significant
other along slowly. Please do not sign up for lost income, lots of
expenses, and more debt without full support.

Give it 1 Year – Worst Case Plan B

Do yourself and your family a favor if you are going to make a run
at this business. Please get agreements and write down how long you
have to create Proof of Concept. Are you giving yourself 6 months?
Like our guest, you could say, “I am going all in for 12 months, and if it
doesn’t work out, I will go back and get a job.”

Outline how you are going to pay bills and feed the family during
that 6- or 12-month period. This guest took out a second mortgage,
depleted his 401K and lived off credit cards. Maybe you agree to spend
no more than $3K a month on the business for 6 months? Talk timeline
and financial commitments as you look to complete the Proof of
Concept, which starts with your first deal.

Deal Pipeline is Tough to Build. Never Stop Prospecting.

Something you learn very quickly in sales is that you must always
be prospecting and that your pipeline is your lifeline. I have seen plenty
of people spend months building a pipeline and then get distracted by a
few deals and ignore prospecting all together. This feast-or-famine
strategy leads to stress.

Never stop prospecting or building leads. The most successful sales

reps I have seen know that their success is only measured by the health
of their pipeline. If you are building a Real Estate business the same
thing applies. You must keep prospecting or else you are going to have
 large gaps in your income stream as deals hit in different windows of
the year.

You Do Not Need to Know Everything

Real Estate Investing is a great way to build wealth and earn an

income because it offers so many ways to start and grow. The one thing
I loved about our guest is that he admits he knew almost nothing when
he started. He didn’t let himself get distracted by trying to know every
detail of every step. Instead, he said, “I know step one. I might know
step two.” From there, he just kept moving forward and looked for help
or networking opportunities when he got to unfamiliar steps.

As our guest discusses, you do not need to know everything about

every step before you start. Just know the next step and get moving.
You will figure it out as you go. If you don’t know, someone in your
network will.

Inspiring Others is Powerful

The ability to inspire others to take steps and achieve more is an

amazing feeling. Real Estate Investing can seem daunting to some, but
if you can elevate their confidence in themselves, you can help them
take massive action.

What I love more than closing deals and growing my portfolio is

when I hear that one of my students got their first or next deal. These
emails and DMs are often the highlight of my week because it means
they did the work and they took action after discovering a good or great
deal in their market.

Wealth with Rentals

Lots of people can produce a great income with Real Estate

Investing, especially if they catch the market cycle just right. However,
the investors who keep and grow a rental portfolio along the way are
the ones who build wealth.
 If you simply wholesale or flip properties, you might have a great
income, but you have no wealth. You have a job that is very demanding
and might even feel like the Rat Race if you are not careful. Keep one
out of four deals and see how your wealth and positive cash flow builds
over time. If you want time freedom, then you need wealth not a high
income.

I congratulate our guest for seeing this and securing his first 25
rental properties while he built an amazing Real Estate business.

I can’t wait to see where his business and his portfolio go next!

Enjoy.

Guest Details
Jumped out of Rat Race after 13 Years Climbing Corporate Ladder
Did the Math and Could Survive 1 Year
Had 100% Support of Wife to Give it a Shot
Started as a House Flipper
Has 24 Rentals as Wealth is Created via Buy and Hold
Constantly Marketing Deals with Mailers
Went All In Multiple Times First Couple of Years
Focused on Team and Growing His Network
Six Months between First and Second Deal
Advice: The Rat Race is Real Be Careful
In Their Own Words

Guest: I worked corporate jobs. I was in sales and sales management for
14 years. Then I hit a transitional point in my life. I felt like it was time to do
something different. I was burnt out, trying to climb the corporate ladder. I
turned to Real Estate, went all in, and haven’t turned back.
 Zuber: The corporate ladder! I suppose some people enjoy the
process. They see the next rung as a challenge that must be conquered.
If you’re reading this, you’re probably like our guest. We get out of
school and we are all hot and bothered to climb the ladder and then—
Boom!—after 5, 10 or 15 years we think, “What’s the point?”

The corporate ladder and the Rat Race are tied together. People
need more education on how the Rat Race lures you in and crushes you
over time as you make bad spending decisions. People need to learn
that instead of busting their butt day by day, they can build a portfolio
of rentals on the side and leave their 9-to-5 job in 10 years. Buying One
Rental at a Time will gradually allow you to defeat the Rat Race and
jump off the corporate ladder.

Guest: When I first started, I wanted to fix and flip everything, and I
painted myself in a corner with only one exit strategy. Simply said, I thought
flipping was the way that you made the most money. Who doesn’t want to
make the most money on each deal?

Zuber: Something I have learned after speaking with many Real

Estate professionals and investors is that you must have multiple exit
strategies. If you work in Real Estate 100% of the time, then you are
going to come across all kinds of opportunities. If you only have one
exit strategy, you will miss the boat.

Max profit is only one of the variables you should consider. You
should also consider your time commitment because sometimes quick
money is better than long money. Consider your current risk profile. Do
you have a lot of projects going on? Are you tight on cash? Do you
have nothing going on and can tackle a skinny deal?

Guest: Wealth accumulation is a big thing for me. I want to be able to

pass something down to my kids and my family when I'm done. I want to be
able to make decisions based on what makes me happy and not make them
because I’m trapped in a job.

Zuber: When done right Real Estate Investing provides amazing

benefits. Real Estate Investing allows you to follow a path with specific
 stopping points. You can get off at any time. Stop one is a Better
Financial Future. Step two is Financial Freedom. Stop three is Legacy
Wealth. Our guest is laser focused on Legacy Wealth. He went through
each stage on the journey to creating Legacy Wealth.

I think most of us know how our guest feels. You know the dread of
the day job, getting up and dealing with the nonsense. What if you
could build passive income during a 10-year journey? Wouldn’t that
help you deal with the craziness in the corporate world? I always felt
better looking at our growing portfolio. It was a pressure release valve,
especially when I knew I could say goodbye to the Rat Race.

You must do the work and it takes time, but it is so worth it.

Guest: One of the things that I enjoyed from my prior experience in

corporate America was seeing other people grow. Developing and
cultivating talent, building a team, and building an environment where
people like to come into work is an awesome feeling. I have taken that with
me and just applied it towards my Real Estate business because I still really
enjoy that.

Zuber: Stepping off the corporate ladder after 10-15 years of

leading teams means you will have some great skills to leverage in your
new career. In this case our guest was able to take his team building
skills and leadership to the Real Estate industry. The ability to inspire
and lead teams is a valuable skill in Real Estate.

You could choose to hire employees. You could lead virtual teams
or lead folks that don’t report to you. The more people that you can
inspire and mentor and lead, the better chances you have of building a
collection of resources that feed you deals and opportunities.

Guest: We officially own 23 rentals now, and we opened escrow on

number 24 yesterday. We are set to close that one before the end of the year.
My goal at the beginning of this year was to get to 25, I only had nine to
begin the year.
 Zuber: I am a huge believer in setting goals. If you follow my
YouTube channel, you know that I share my weekly goals with you. In
this case, our guest is building a flipping business but also building
wealth through buy and hold rentals.

I believe more full time Real Estate Investors should pick up rentals
because that is where wealth is achieved. If you flip or wholesale
homes each month, you are making active income, taxed the most, and
it is just a job. It might be a very high paying job, but it is still just a
job.

Holding Real Estate allows you to build wealth, get some tax
savings and allows you to diversify your current and future income.

Guest: I was youn,g and I was making a lot of money, but I was also
spending a lot of money which was not very smart. I was very irresponsible,
buying all the toys that a 23-year-old wants. I didn't know any better and I
should have.

Zuber: I made similar mistakes. I earned decent money, but I was

spending it as soon as it came in. The Rat Race is real, and I enjoyed it
to the fullest. However, I didn’t appreciate that I was inadvertently
making my wheel bigger each month with stupid financial decisions.

My hope is that more parents and adults talk about the Rat Race and
how easy it is to fall into the trap. The unfortunate reality is that most
people are closest to Financial Freedom when they are 18, but then they
get seduced by the Rat Race with nicer cars, apartments, credit cards,
and student debt.

The reality is that plenty of high school grads can live on $2,500 a
month but need $5K by the time they are 25. This is the Rat Race. Our
personal decisions lead to a growing wheel that we must constantly run
on each month.

Guest: When I got to this transitional period in my life, I needed a

change, and I had a little cash saved up. I talked with my wife. We made the
decision to try it and see what happened. I realized the worst-case scenario
was that I ended up in a sales job just like the one I already had.

Zuber: Who hasn’t had that dream at some point in their corporate
career? If you are going to make the leap into being an entrepreneur,
then I suggest you get the full support of your significant other.

The corporate nonsense fed my desire to live on less, sacrifice, and

build a Real Estate portfolio that allowed us to retire early.

As you build your Real Estate Investing portfolio or Real Estate

Investing business, know that you can leverage a day job as a Plan B or
back-up -plan. I chose to use my day job to feed my side hustle, and I
worked very hard at it every day.

Guest: I was naïve. I thought I could just pull up a foreclosure on

realtor.com and buy it cheap and then fix it and make some money. I figured
I could do that over and over like they do on TV. That was my experience
when I started. I knew nothing about Real Estate beyond buying and selling
my own house. I didn't know what a title company did. I didn't know
anything.

Zuber: How many of us have seen those TV shows and thought,

“Hey, that is easy! I can do that?” Real Estate Investing is straight
forward: you find a deal, add value, and sell for a profit. The reality is
Real Estate Investing takes a lot more work and offers different points
of risk.

A few of the keys are repeatedly finding opportunities to buy

properties at a discount. You could leverage direct mail, text messages,
door knocking, etc. The key is to routinely speak with owners who
might be in a position to sell. From there if you are flipping properties
like our guest, you will need to scope work, manage contractors, and
deliver product that consumers want to buy at a price point where you
can make a profit.

Guest: I got our first deal pretty quickly via a family relationship, but it
took about six months between that first house to the second one. There were
some really lean times and there was self-doubt. I wondered, “Did I just get
really lucky on the first one? Will I be able to do it again and find another
one?”

Zuber: As our guest highlights it takes time to build a business that

produces repeatable results month in and month out. Be prepared for
some lean times. New wholesalers and flippers should plan to invest at
least six months building out the business without receiving a check
from their efforts. When you start your business, if you plan for 6
months of no checks and do the work day in and day out, then you will
be in a good spot as your business grows.

Something else to realize in this business is that you might get your
first deal quickly and then have a gap between the first and next deal.
You will eventually build a pipeline of deal flow, but it takes time to
build consistency.

Guest: When we first started, we put everything on the line. We

borrowed all of the money against my retirement account that I could. We
took a second mortgage out on our house. We maxed out every single credit
card that we had. We did a cash advance on anything that we could. If my
wife wasn't a hundred percent on board with this idea, there is no chance we
would have been successful.

Zuber: When you decide to quit your day job to start Real Estate
Investing full time, please do yourself a favor and get 100% buy in
from your significant other. If you are going to borrow every penny you
can, then you will want to be on the same page. Debt can help you
grow, but it can also be a mountain piled on top of you, and you can’t
dig out. Please use the debt only for investing in the business and never
for toys. Treat the cash with the respect it deserves.

It takes a lot of courage and faith in yourself and from your

significant other to quit your job and to load up on more and more debt.
I don’t think I could do it because I suspect the stress would just eat me
alive. Every investor needs to know himself or herself. For some that
means you have it inside you to go all in! For others it means you can
build a great side hustle and rental portfolio.
 Guest: We borrowed everything we could many times. Eventually, we
built a reputation and track record where private investors funded our deals.
We basically shoved in all our chips and doubled down on everything that
we did for years.

Zuber: Can you image repeatedly betting on yourself to this level

and going all in? Investors who choose to quit working and go all in on
Real Estate Investing need to be ready to repeatedly bet on yourself. As
our guest highlights, it can lead to an amazing outcome and a
tremendous business. However, this type of stress is not for everyone
and for the few that rise up and thrive, there are many that crumble and
can’t handle the financial stress.

It should never be forgotten that our guest had 100% support from
his significant other. They had a 12-month timeline and a Plan B. Our
guest shows us that betting on yourself can pay off, but it is also okay to
keep your day job and use Real Estate as a side hustle.

Guest: I tell everybody, “You just need to do step one. Figure out step
one until you're ready for step two. Then you do step two.” That's what I've
always been good at. I don’t try to have A-to-Z figured out. I take my
current step as far as I can. Then I seek help. I just keep moving forward.

Zuber: I find this advice very liberating. There is beauty in this

simple message. If we focused our energy on the first or the next step,
we could go a lot farther a lot faster. Then you can ask for help.

Real Estate Investing is an industry full of folks who like to help

others move forward. If you want to understand what an escrow offer
does, you could simply arrange a call with an Escrow or Title company.
You could also go to a Real Estate meetup or reach out to other
investors to ask questions.

If you want to flip, wholesale, buy and hold, or build new, there are
lots of investors you could call, email or message. Trying to figure out
the entire process on your own is not efficient and will lead to lost time.
 Guest: I think the biggest struggle for many is just pulling the trigger and
getting started. Not knowing everything kind of freaks some people out.

Zuber: I agree with our guest. Many new investors spend months
and years trying to document and understand the entire process and all
the things that could happen in a transaction. I suppose they do this
because they believe understanding is power, but from my experience
Real Estate transactions only follow a basic flow and instead deviate on
the subtleties of each buyer, seller, lender, etc. Real Estate Investing is a
people business. If you understand people, it will be far easier for you
to understand what is happening in Real Estate because people are
involved throughout the processes.

I agree with our guest that it is better to understand the current and
next step in detail as you get going. You don’t need to understand
everything. If you simply focus your energy on understanding your
market and finding good deals, you will go a long way because escrow,
Real Estate agents and other investors can help you with any questions
once you lock down a great deal. Please do not stress about trying to
understand everything. Instead focus and execute daily.

Value I Took from Interview

Betting on Yourself:

Perhaps the greatest takeaway from this interview was that some
people just have rock solid belief in themselves, and they will always
be successful. I don’t think I could have made that leap, but I am so
proud of our guest for going for it.

I liked that he gave himself a timeframe of one year. He

acknowledged his Plan B: going back to a day job. He had full support
of his wife as they went into this together with their eyes wide open.

Takes Time to Build Pipeline:

TV shows making flipping properties look so easy. Who couldn’t

get a remodel done in two weeks like they do? Add you’re smarter than
those idiots on TV, right?
 You need to plan for at least six months of no income and lots of
expenses. Our guest articulated this very well. If you can’t stomach the
lack of cash flow, then it might be better to keep your day job and build
your business or your portfolio as a side hustle instead.

My former career was Complex Enterprise Software Sales. Those

sales cycles were routinely six or more months, always competitive and
if completed successfully, lead to million-dollar deals and outstanding
paychecks. Creating a Real Estate Investing business from scratch is
very much the same thing.

You need to build a pipeline. You need to realize there is

competition and you will not get every deal you work on. To keep the
pipeline running, you need to keep prospecting even when you have
deals in the pipeline. If you don’t, you will create very painful dry
spells as current leads process out and you have no new leads.

Communicate Full Plan to Significant Other (Debt, Timeline, etc.)

Some couples struggle with communicating goals and ambitions.

As we saw in this interview, there was no way our guest would jump off
the corporate job ladder and go all in on Real Estate without the full
support of his wife. Not only did he stop his paychecks, but he loaded
up the family with debt for many months.

I understand that many significant others (mine included) would

never get behind this all-or-nothing move. Is there a middle ground you
can find? You won’t find it unless you communicate and talk about
what is really going on.

At one point in my relationship, we had just lost over $150K in the

stock market. We felt defeated. We both want security and freedom, but
we didn’t know where to go. We found rental properties and we agreed
to get one after doing research. Once we had one and survived an
eviction of the first tenant (Ouch! That hurt) we decided to get a second
and then a third. We never talked about owning over one hundred units.
Instead, we evaluated each deal as it came along. I would ask Olivia,
 “What do think, honey, should we get this deal or wait?” Thankfully,
the answer was always “Let’s keep going!”

Team Sport

As a former sales leader, I was not surprised that our guest has
achieved bigger and bigger goals by inspiring and leading teams. In the
Real Estate business, these teams may or may not report to you, but the
more folks who believe in your dream, the more power you will have
going forward.

Real Estate Investing is very much a team sport because it is

impossible to do this business at any scale or for any length of time
without working with other people. Your reputation matters in this
business. Your likability matters in this business. Your follow up and
follow through matter in this business.

Goals

If you have followed my journey, you know that I am very goal

driven. Goals are meant to be shared. They need to be tracked. They
need to be uncomfortably large but achievable. Goals evolve over time
as you and your business or portfolio grow.

For our guest, it started as achieving proof of concept and paying

back all the initial debt. It then evolved into owning 25 rentals via buy
and hold. From there it expanded to more rentals, creating teams, and
other sources of income.

What are your goals? Did you write them down? Have you shared
them with anyone? Do you report on them weekly or monthly? Goals
with none of these are just dreams. Let’s instead turn our dreams into a
powerful force for action.
 Chapter 15: Guest Interview: Watch
HGTV and Flip this House Shows with
Wife and Start Flipping House because it
is so Easy
This couple’s passion was sparked from late night TV and led to a big
business. They show us how you can go from a few deals a year to dozens
with a team. They also demonstrate how being a team can allow you to take
on big challenges. My biggest takeaway from this interview was their focus
on first setting up their careers. They had jobs to pay the bills and used Real
Estate Investing to build wealth as a team.

Late Nights Watching Flip this House Shows

How many Flip This House shows or seasons have you watched?
Our guest couple sat on their sofa late at night and said, “We can do
this! Let’s go!” That’s how they started their journey. Their story
started with a live-in flip, had a brief pause for career and family, and
then took off as the business transitioned from a hobby to a career.

Career for Bills and Real Estate for Wealth

I admire that our guests had a life plan. They took a brief detour to a
live in a flip, but they knew their day jobs were important. They both
worked in the medical field and had years of schooling to complete.
This took time yet it empowered them to have meaningful jobs with
good pay as they started flipping and buying rentals.

I wish more people would see the power in a good paying day job
instead of just quitting and going full time in Real Estate. Life is not
that easy for most people, and I would not recommend adding that kind
of stress to your life. Get a job that pays the bills and hustle after hours
just like I did for 15 years.
Waiting and Securing Support from Significant Other

Getting complete buy in from your significant other is critical if you

want to increase your chances of long-term success. Sometimes that
means you need to wait a few years until your education is complete
and your children are a year or two older.

Real Estate Investing will take money, but it also takes a lot of time.
Your significant other must understand and be ready to pick up the
extra load if you are busy on a project.

If your significant other is not completely onboard, I recommend

not pushing but to continue learning and sharing what you learn. In my
course I advise you to share your weekly deal sheet with your
significant other to show them what you are doing and what you are
learning. As you start to identify great deals, they will start to see the
effort is worth it.

Do the Work After Hours and Get Educated

These professionals were often working 12 to 14 hours a day in the

medical field but still made time to do the work. Work 8-8? No
problem! They learned Real Estate from 10:00 to 1:00 in the morning,
got up at six and did it all over again.

How bad do you want it? Real Estate Investing is a tremendous

business, but you must pay your dues up front to learn the market,
network, and figure out the ins and outs of transactions.

You can do the work now, sleep a little less and have a life full of
financial freedom and naps later in life.

As you begin learning, feel free to look around and figure out what
part of Real Estate Investing excites you. Once you find it, do yourself
a favor and ignore the rest. Focus and execute daily to get just a little
 better every day. “Focus” is first because without it, daily execution
fails. Lack of focus creates negative leverage as you get distracted from
positive growth with focus.

Staying Loyal to a Single Market

Some believe the grass is always greener in a different market. If

you look online enough, you will hear people bragging about this or
that return. Most of these stories are either complete lies or, at best,
simple half-truths. Run your race. Learn your market and look to create
good or great deals in it.

Start learning only one market because it is easier. Think of it like a

golf swing. It is far easier to learn just by repetition with the pitching
wedge over and over again versus changing clubs after every swing.
Yes, the act of swinging is the same, but the feedback loop is
interrupted by changing clubs and you won’t learn as fast.

Too many people believe they need to diversify to multiple markets

just like you need to diversify stocks. If you are in a one-employer town
that is a great idea, but if you are in a big city (300,000 people or more),
you have a diverse economy already. Building quality teams in multiple
markets is hard work, and that is the reason I have never gone to a
second market. I don’t want to struggle and build a new team.

Watch Cash Flow, Not Just Top Line

People flex and post on social media about their “Wins” or their big
checks and closing statements. Those are just the highlight reels and
most of them are fake. These guests tell us about some hard truths in
this interview. For instance, there was a time when their business was
doing over $1M top line, but they were concerned about paying for
groceries.

Can you imagine this moment? If you do not carefully watch how
you spend your cash, you could wind up in a tight spot. It is far too easy
to spend cash quickly because cash returns can be far too slow while
 the bills quickly pile up. Go slow and steady rather than bursting on to
the scene and going big.

Money Goals May Get Early Headlines, but Positive Impact is Far
More Important.

Most of us get into Real Estate Investing for the money. However,
the best part of the journey is the freedom and choices you earn.

We paid the price for 15 years, but now we get to enjoy over 40
years living life on our terms and helping as many people as we can.
My hope is you stick with the journey long enough to enjoy the true
fruits of your labor.

Enjoy!

Guest Details
Married, 3 Children, Both Employed Full Time in the Medical Field
First Real Estate Investment was Live in Flip 2007
Inspired by Flip this House Shows (Looked Easy)
Gap Between First Flip and Creating a Business
Grew Business from 10 transactions in 2016 to over 120 transactions in
2019
3 Separate but Related Companies Currently
Got First Two Deals Flip and Rental the same week
10 Deals First Year While Working Full Time Job
Focused Area Charlotte, North Carolina
Flip business with his Wife
Leveraged Private Money
First Employee Virtual Assistant
Had Employee Steal Tens of Thousands of Dollars
Running a 7 Figure Business (Gross Revenue)
Advice: Grow your Business or Portfolio at a Pace you are comfortable
with
In Their Own Words
 Guest: We started way back in 2007. I was newly engaged and sitting on
the sofa with my future wife, watching late night flipping shows. That's
where we first got the bug and started our journey.

Zuber: It’s funny to think that they were watching Flip This House
and saying, “Honey, we can do that. We are smarter than them.” How
many people tried to do a flip because of a highly scripted show that
doesn’t show all the pain, stress, and full numbers? Thousands? Tens of
thousands? Better yet, how many tried to do one flip and never did a
second flip?

What do you think? Are Flip this House shows fun? Educational?
Dangerous? I wish they were more financial education, talking about
how all the cash worked instead of relationship dramas.

Guest: Literally, that was all I knew. You buy a crappy foreclosed house,
you fix it up, and then you automatically make easy money. That's all I
knew. Well, that's what the TV says. Right?

Zuber: This is what so many take away from these shows. At a

high level it is a fair model to discuss. However, there are so many
other details, relationships and money management issues that are just
ignored.

For example, where does the money come from? Who floats the
repair budgets for teams and supplies? How much overhead and how
many bills do they have every month? What about picky buyers,
inspections, insurance headaches, etc.

Finding a deal is an important part, but in flipping there are lots of

other important parts.

Guest: I love the idea of fixing something up, putting in manual labor
and making it nice. We lived in the first flip. It was kind of a do-it-yourself
project.

Zuber: Some people truly enjoy the process of turning an ugly

duckling into a beautiful swan. Me? I don’t have that. I enjoy changing
neighborhoods and helping first time buyers, but do I really care about
 paint colors and tile choices? Nope! Not even one bit. Some folks just
geek out over these things. For them a trip to the home improvement
store is like going to a toy store. I go into those stores and think, “Why
are there so many choices? Just give me that one and I am out!”

If you enjoy the process like my guest, then flipping can be a total
joy because you get to choose the little extras every day.

Guest: We took some time off after our first flip to complete our
education for our day jobs in the medical field. We both went to school.
She's a nurse practitioner and I'm a physician assistant. We finished up those
programs and got our careers established in Charlotte. We always knew that
Real Estate was going to be the way to long-term wealth.

Zuber: This makes total sense to me. You work hard to setup your
day job so it pays your bills. Then as you get settled, you start your side
hustle to build a better financial future.

Some folks would tell you, “Don’t go to school! Go all in on your

dream. You can make it happen.” I think that is horrible advice for most
people because it will likely lead to financial and relationship stress that
is just not needed.

I followed a similar path. I busted my butt in my day job while

learning my market and building a portfolio of rentals that would
support our future. The day job helped get loans with great rates,
supplied a cushion when surprises happened, and allowed us to execute
better money management by reducing expenses and increase freedom
dollars every month (freedom dollars = disposable income).

Guest: We had a period of trying to figure it out in 2015. We listened to

podcasts and learned from people who were successful. That was a big
educational year for us.

Zuber: I’m not sure how I feel about spending a year learning the
business. If it was spent trying to find your market or trying to find your
investment vehicle, then I get it.
 However, if you know your market and you know whether you
want to be a flipper or a buy and hold investor, then spending a year
seems like a lot. I believe that you can learn a market in under six
months with most folks doing it in three to four months. Once you learn
the market, it is time to start writing good or great offers.

It could take you months to secure a deal, but you will be taking
action much sooner than a year. That said, spending a year and taking
massive action as this guest did is to be respected and admired. I fear
too many folks hit a year and then decide, “Nope! Not for me.” That is
wasteful in my opinion.

Guest: When we finally got our first deal, we got a second deal the same
week. Getting two deals in the same week was amazing but a little stressful.
It was like, “Oh my God. I had spent so long trying to find one deal and now
I have two. What are we going to do?”

Zuber: It is funny how often I hear this story. You spend months
trying to find your first good or great deal and then—Boom!—you get
two back to back. If this happens to you, you will have a few choices.
Do you take the best deal and punt the other? Do you step up and find a
way to take both deals down, maybe one with conventional financing
and the other with a partner or private money investor? If you are in this
business long enough, you will eventually run into a situation where
you have a couple of opportunities and must decide how to move
forward.

Guest: I couldn't be where I am today without my wife because she has

always supported the journey. We were never going to build a big business
until she was ready. Once she gave the okay, we went full speed ahead. She
wanted to push this thing faster than I did.

Zuber: Having a supporting spouse or significant other is critical. It

was valuable to have Olivia on board 100%. I strongly discourage
trying to force support or taking half-hearted support because it could
bite you when you have your first set back.
 When you are getting started, learn your market and share with your
significant other what you are learning. When you are ready, show them
great deals and prove you have done the work. If you invest the time in
learning and sharing the process, it will become obvious that this is a
great deal. Make sure you share everything you have done.

For example, show them the spreadsheet you have built with
hundreds of properties on it. Show them why this one property is in the
top five all time and why you should act. Go walk properties, meet
people, and grow your network. You can do lots of things before you
start committing family money to this new adventure.

Guest: There were definitely days that I would work my day job 8 AM –
8 PM and then do Real Estate stuff from 10:00 PM until 2:00 AM and then
get up and do it again.

Zuber: I can relate to this in a big way. I can’t tell you how many
times I was up at 3 AM, on a flight at 6 AM, did a full set of client
meetings, got back on an airplane and was home at midnight. Without
fail, I would find time to look at my market that day.

I might have gotten up 15 minutes earlier. I might have stayed up

late. I might have squeezed in five minutes here or there to process my
entire list of properties. I never missed a day of looking at my market. It
had to be done or I couldn’t rest.

My superpower is to focus on a set of activities and never miss. I

never get bored because I always think, “Today is the day that I find
that perfect deal.” It is such a great feeling to keep working and
eventually write that great offer.

All I could control was getting to the point of writing a great offer. I
could never guarantee I would get it because lots of people want rentals
and cash flow. However, I did know that the more work I did, the
luckier I got.

Guest: We searched through Craigslist and Zillow and the MLS to be

find a deal. One of the first deals we had was an MLS deal. The other one
was a HUD home that I found on Zillow.

Zuber: You never know where you will find a deal. For me it was
MLS Only for over ten years because I didn’t have the time for mailing
owners. Wholesalers were not around and I just didn’t know where else
to look.

I suggest using the MLS to learn because it is fluid, ever changing

and supports saved searches. Feel free to expand your tools of choice as
you learn your market.

Guest: When we got our first two deals, we needed a plan. One turned
into a flip. One turned into a rental.

Zuber: Have a plan for when you get “yes” answers from sellers.
Have your plan when you make your offer, but the worst case is to have
a plan when the escrow is opened. I don’t like hearing investors say, “I
have a rental because I over improved it, couldn’t sell it, and decided to
keep it.”

When I hear this, I know there is dead money sitting in that house
or property and I know there is a good chance the investor won’t do
another deal. Some people decide to carry a bad investment instead of
selling, learning the lesson and moving forward to better and better
deals.

Guest: Once we were supposed to go on spring break with our family to

Florida. I canceled the trip, which I still regret to this day. I needed to finish
a house myself because our contractor was pulled into a different project.

Zuber: I have shared many times how I failed to enjoy life during
our journey to financial freedom. My daughter is now 30, and I missed
out on so many great memories that I can never get back. Please don’t
repeat my mistakes. Enjoy life with your family. Take some days off.
Be there on purpose with no phone and just enjoy. Do yourself a favor
and take lots of pictures. Hug your kids when they are young because as
they get older that will become less frequent.
 I get it: sometimes things come up and you need to make a tough
call. Please consider what you will sacrifice and do what you can to
etch those memories into stone. You cannot get this time back, so enjoy
it.

Lastly, this is not permission to spend foolishly on memories. You

can do lots of things that don’t require big money as you build your
Real Estate empire.

Guest: Networking. Always be networking. You just never know where

it helps because your contractors can disappear, and you might need fast
private money for a great deal.

Zuber: This is huge. The first 5 years of our investing journey were
slower than they could have been because I thought the answer lived in
my wonderful spreadsheet. Instead, the answer was to find my focus
and share it with the world. Tell everyone what you do, learn what they
do, and keep meeting more and more amazing people in your market.

Guest: I have this habit of losing control of the projects because of my

busy day job. I have to manage people and projects via phone calls. One of
our biggest goofs was putting a little bit of faith into somebody a little too
early.

Zuber: Having a day job and running flip projects requires a lot of
trust in others. If you happen to put that trust in someone and fail to
double check, it can cost you big money. I think flipping or doing
BRRRR projects in out-of-state markets with no boots on the ground is
a recipe to go broke.

Don’t get me wrong. It can be done, but I strongly recommend you

pay someone in that town to tell you the truth every day because you
must spot problems and errors in judgment early before they become
huge losses.

I believe having trusted boots on the ground in out-of-state markets

is far more important than finding the perfect or cheapest market.
Always remember that “Bad News” never gets better with time.
 Guest: This guy showed us pictures of a house that was roughed in with
electric and plumbing and took his payment for that. When we finally got up
to look at the project, nothing was done: no plumbing and no electric. We
lost tens of thousands of dollars not double checking the work.

Zuber: When money is involved, you will run into people with
poor character that would rather lie, cheat, and steal than do an honest
day’s work. It is sad, but it will happen. Someone you trusted with
thousands of dollars, will steal from you. They will make excuses. They
might disappear.

Watch out for the people that have the perfect story and weak
references. Those are red flags. In Real Estate I value references and
referrals a lot more than resumes or interviews because good
salespeople can fake those. If I can lean on my network and call one of
my hundreds of friends and check someone out off the record, then I
feel much better about who I hire.

Guest: I have increased staff now—so I have that overhead—but I need

to make more money to make sure that I'm covering their expenses. Thus, I
increase marketing which increases my spending again.

Zuber: When I read the statement, I thought about why I am not an

entrepreneur. I had enough quarterly stress trying to deliver a certain
number every month, and I don’t want the challenge of having to pay
salaries.

I understand that this means I will never be huge, and I won’t be

able to accomplish legendary things. However, I go to bed at night not
thinking about all my overhead, growing marketing budget, and the
pressure to close a deal.

I could not image the level of stress this could cause in a hot
market. If deals were tough and I had a dry spell, I would go nuts trying
to make sure the overhead is covered.

In the end, know thyself!!!

 Guest: There is a moment I won’t forget. I was grossing a million dollars
a year at that point. I was in the grocery line wondering if there's money in
my account to pay for the groceries.

Zuber: Can you imagine? You are doing big things in business. You
can flex on social media, but you might not be able to pay for groceries.
This would kill me.

This business is full of people talking about topline numbers. Top

line means nothing! You need to watch the bottom line and the cash
flow statement. Having lumpy cash flow can kill your business faster
than anything in Real Estate.

You might be very profitable in Real Estate via flipping, but if you
do not control your cash flow, you could be standing in the grocery
store unsure if you can pay for what is in your basket. Money steadily
goes out super-fast and sporadically comes in chunks, and those chunks
can be delayed for lots of reasons.

Please never be impressed with top line numbers. Always ask about
bottom line. Watch your cash flow because it is the oxygen that keeps
the business running.

Guest: I think it's nice to be able to go to these Mastermind groups and

see what people are doing nationally.

Zuber: For the longest time, I didn’t understand mastermind

groups. I now realize I was super short sited. I have always valued
networking in my local market, but what I failed to understand about
Masterminds is that it is a way to network outside of your local market.

Masterminds that attract members from across the country are truly
eye opening. It is fun to share your business with others, but it is even
more fun to see what hot shots are doing across the country.

Simply said, for the longest time I was too myopic in my

networking as I focused on my little market. A good Mastermind can
inspire ideas and allow me to see entirely new ways of doing things.
 Masterminds cost money, so make sure you get a great trade off.
The cost is a barrier to entry because many folks will not write the
check to attend.

Guest: The market is very competitive these days, and many people are
going to try and outwork you. Don't let them.

Zuber: What market is not competitive these days? None! Given

that you have one choice, you can do the daily work I recommend, or
you can be run over by folks that are doing the daily work. Real Estate
Investing and markets have ebb and flow to them, and it is only the
folks doing the work that will see these.

If you can spot a trend, take advantage of it while others struggle to

figure out what is going on. Remember that you cannot control what the
other investor is or isn’t doing, but you can control what you do.

So do the work and have fun doing it!

Guest: I don't know that I've thought about 10 years out. I don't know
whether I'm supposed to or not, but I know that I've not thought that far
ahead.

Zuber: Think everyone has a ten-year plan? Nope. Frankly most

don’t. I certainly never did. I was always focused on the next deal or
securing the next piece of capital. I now think into the future, but it is
not 10 years out.

Don’t get lost in planning out 10 years if it means you never take
the first or next step. That would be a huge error. I was a successful
salesperson for decades, so I am used to living in a world of quarterly
and yearly quotas. Those are good ideas. Having a rough idea on next
year is a safe bet but having a plan beyond that is tough because of the
changing market. Get going now and start doing the work now.

Guest: I want to be a more positive influence on others whether that's

through Real Estate or personal life coaching such as coaching my kid's
softball team.
 Zuber: Getting to the point where money is not the number one
motivator is such an awesome feeling. For decades money was my #1,
#2 and #3 motivator. I was always scared that I would lose it all and go
back to being that hungry little kid who thought they were always one
week away from moving to their grandparent’s home.

I hope you get to enjoy the feeling of having options because it is so

rewarding to give back. Having the opportunity to give back on
YouTube via the Daily Financial News and Expert Series is so much
fun for me. I do it because I have so much fun. I love talking to other
go-givers who want to help move the ball forward for others.

Guest: I can't be around negative people because it can foster my own

struggles. You don't want to surround yourself with negative people all the
time that just bring you down.

Zuber: I agree. Watch who is in your network. Your personal

network can either charge your personal battery or it can drain your
battery. In addition, you must watch out for the things you follow online
or in social media as it is easy to spiral into a negative feedback loop.
Control what you let into your mind because it can be your greatest
asset or it can really hold you back. Keep feeding your mind positive
information and it will take you to amazing places.

Value I Took from Interview

 Day Job Pays the Bills, Real Estate
Builds Wealth:
In this interview, I see a husband-and-wife team that had a plan and
executed it together. It started with them sitting on a sofa watching TV
to executing a live-in flip. From there they went about getting education
and certifications for their day jobs in health care. This meant they had
a brief gap between the first flip and the second investment.

Once they entered the workforce and got situated, he started getting
educated and only jumped in when his wife said, “Honey, let’s go!”

They both knew their day jobs would pay the bills, but that Real
Estate Investing would build wealth.

Family Support and Buy In:

Everyone knows Real Estate Investing takes money, but it also

consumes time and can create stress for family relationships. There will
be some amazing days in this business, but there will also be some
really bad days. Please make sure you and your significant other are
ready to deal with them and move on together.

I find it best to invest time early in the process to secure buy in from
your significant other. Don’t rush in and start committing significant
capital and time until you have been able to discuss the plan together.
When the two of you are on the same page, you can tackle all the ups
and downs in the business and go much faster together.

Never Stop Networking

Something I learned after five years in this business was that “Your
Network is Your Net Worth.” I made the mistake of staying focused on
my spreadsheet. I incorrectly assumed if I stayed focused on my market
and kept tweaking my spreadsheet that I would figure it all out.
Unfortunately, I was wrong.
 What I learned too late was that Real Estate Investing is a people
business and you need to get out and meet people. Tell as many people
as you can about what you are looking for. The more people that know
what you buy the better your chances of finding a deal.

Please make sure to be as specific as possible. Do not say, “Hey! I

am just looking for a deal.” Instead, tell people you are looking for this
type of property in this part of town. Be specific. If you are one of my
students, share the focused criteria you use in your daily search.

Enjoy Life and Celebrate

My greatest regret during our 15-year journey was not taking a few
moments to celebrate all the small victories along the way. You don’t
have to spend big money but take a few moments and celebrate the
journey together.

In this interview we heard about the regret from cancelling a spring

break trip to complete a project. Real Estate projects will always be
there, but that spring break trip can’t be easily replaced. You will
undoubtedly be faced with scheduling and time constraints. Just
remember that your family and creating great memories are very
important.

You have signed up for a fun journey. Buckle up and celebrate the
ups and downs!

Staying Loyal to One Market

When you learn how to invest in Real Estate, you have a skill that
you can deploy around the world. Just because you can invest in other
markets doesn’t mean you have to invest. I generally believe that most
markets are big enough for an investor to find success by learning only
that market.

You can always try other markets, but please spend the time to learn
a market and don’t just bounce around because you can. Multiple
markets with multiple teams can spiral out of control quickly with
different systems, processes, and teams.
 CLOSING STATEMENTS

As I wrap up this book, I want to highlight a few things.

1) I hope you saw yourself in at least one, if not several, of these

unique stories.

2) I hope your confidence has grown after reading each story because
none of our guests offered up a story that couldn’t be repeated by
anyone else.

3) Each of our guests started with an initial focus. Only after growing
proficient in that area did they grow to another area.

4) Most of our guests chose to focus on a single region. It is hard to

build scale and depth of relationships in multiple markets.

5) I truly hope at least one of these stories is the key to moving your
dreams forward. Real Estate Investing offers so much but it does
take a decision, execution, and time to grow successful.

Key Advice from the Guests

Each of our interviews had a list of investor traits. At the bottom of each
list was a piece of advice. Here are my thoughts on those pieces of advice as
you move forward with your investing journey.

Guest 1: Dream Big

Our first guest talked about something I have struggled with over
the years. For the longest time I was so focused on One Rental at a
Time that I rarely looked up to appreciate the journey to that point. I
never really let myself dream big. I was too busy with life that I didn’t
—and still don’t—really dream big personally. I have goals but no real
dreams that I am chasing. Our guest showed us the power in dreaming
 big because we saw his dreams evolve during our discussion. As we
closed, he talked about even bigger dreams. Truly Inspiring!

Guest 2: Calculate your Freedom Number

Our second guest shared some great advice about the importance of
calculating your personal Freedom Number. I find it odd when
investors don’t know their Freedom Number. Some will say $5K or
$10K, but that is just a guess, a simple round number. It is ok to have
goals beyond your Freedom Number, but that does not give you
permission to not understand the minimum you need. Please spend
some time and calculate your Freedom Number.

Guest 3: Location Matters – Learn your Market

To hear our guest talk about location and the fact that just a couple
of streets over can make a difference should remind everyone of this:
“Learn your Market.” It takes time to learn a market. Don’t rush in just
because you have some cash ready to deploy. Learning a market is
about location, rental rates, turnover, etc. Don’t rush the process or you
might find yourself buying just outside the right area and needing to sell
at a loss to get rid of a headache.

Guest 4: Never Forget BRRRR is an Advanced Strategy

I really appreciate it when my experts tackle hot topics such as

BRRRR. I especially appreciate when they dive into the reality of the
strategy instead of just the sexiness of “Do this! Keep no money in the
deal! Grow fast! It is super easy!” I have been doing this a long time
and when strategies take off like this, it can hurt a lot of people who
think it is easy and start cutting corners and don’t do the work. Real
Estate Investing takes time to learn, and you must learn your market
and build your network. Running a remodel project, leveraging hard
money, and refinancing out at the end is just too much risk for most
first-time investors.

Guest 5: Live Where You Want and Invest Where Numbers Make Sense
 I tried to invest in my backyard, but it was just too expensive. After
a year, we had to sit down and ask questions on where to invest because
we were getting nowhere fast. Our discussion led to a market 2.5 hours
away. Your discussion might take you to a different state. If you are
going to a new market like we did, please realize that the team you
build out there will take work, focus, and may change over time. We
went through five property managers in five years.

Guest 6: Understand Conservative Leverage

I know that it is sexy to talk about high leverage when the market is
racing higher. It is fun to do zero-down deals or run BRRRR projects
that have zero of your own money after the refinance. This guest
reminds us that to build wealth long term, you must maintain ownership
of the Real Estate. You can have one bad cycle or blip and be totally
washed out of the market. I have seen what high-leverage and short-
term debt can do to investors. It is tough to get out when the market
drops if your debt structure is bad. Thirty-year fixed rate debt on
residential properties can be a lifesaver over adjustable mortgages that
must be refinanced at the wrong time.

Guest 7: Mistakes Happen – Keep Moving Forward

Even after 20 years, I still make mistakes in this business. It is a

people business. You can make emotional mistakes. Instead of beating
yourself up for being wrong, take notes and learn the lesson so you
don’t repeat it again. A mistake in this business is fine. Repeating that
mistake because you didn’t learn is unnecessarily expensive. When
mistakes happen, please appreciate the lesson and then just move on.
As time goes by, you will make less and less mistakes, but they will
never go away. Expect mistakes and keep moving forward.

Guest 8: Must Have Trustworthy Boots on the Ground with Out of State
Investing

I was so happy to hear our guest give this advice because I know
out-of-state or out-of-area investing can be wildly profitable, but it does
 come with risk. You must have trusted boots on the ground that will tell
you bad news fast and without sugarcoating it. When everyone that
supports you out of state is paid to keep you happy, it is human nature
to not give you the cold hard truth. That is why I really emphasize
having someone in that market you trust 100%. It might need to be
someone outside of the people you pay to care for your properties. It
could be a relative or old college roommate. Someone has to tell you
the unfiltered truth when you are investing out of state, or you are
destined for problems.

Guest 9: The American Dream is Alive and Well—Go Get Yours!

I thrive on the idea that I can have anything I want in this country if
I am willing to work for it. That is not true in many countries around
the world. On my YouTube channel, I have interviewed high school
dropouts, felons and entrepreneurs like this guest who bet on
themselves and then got to work hustling for years to achieve their
dream. The American Dream can be whatever you want. If your dream
is financial freedom, you can get there, but it will take focus and
consistent work. I listened to this interview many times because I like
to hear how one can work hard and achieve amazing things if they stick
to it.

Guest 10: Get on The Property Ladder ASAP

Our guest in this episode has gone on to do amazing things in the

social media world. It all started with saving $7K at Jamba Juice. In this
episode our guest highlights how a 203K owner occupied loan was the
key to him and his wife buying their first home. This event got them on
the property ladder in Southern California, and their Real Estate
Portfolio just keeps growing. If you want inspiration, see how this 20-
something got started in Real Estate and built an amazing brand.

Guest 11: Going Deep in One Market Offers Benefits Over Time

If you have followed my story for any length of time, you know that
I have occasionally gotten the idea to find another market. The story
goes like this: California is an unfriendly state for landlords and that I
 need to diversify. I understand the logic, but after years of looking in
other markets, I stay put because I have found the ability to diversify in
Fresno is less risky than building up experience in a brand-new market.
For example, I could be in single family homes, apartments, mixed use,
or office properties. Each part of the market has their own cycles. If you
focus, you can find deals in one area while another area is hot. That is
less risky than jumping all over the country chasing the next hot
market.

Guest 12: Never Stop Learning

This guest has an extra 10 years of investing experience than me. I

found myself thinking about all the changes in the last 10 years and
where we could go in the next 10 years. I will never stop learning
because this business is always evolving. You never know when one
idea could spark the next million-dollar strategy to secure rentals and
cash flow. If you are a Real Estate Investor, get ready for a lifetime of
learning. Enjoy the journey.

Guest 13: Get Educated Now So You Don’t Lose a Decade

Our guest made a critical mistake when he tried Real Estate

Investing the first time. He basically jumped in and tried to do
everything himself without learning, process, and being mentored. This
led to a cheap purchase and a rush to take a tenant. This did not end
well and—even worse—kept him away from Real Estate Investing for
10 years. When he finally came back, he was ready to learn, establish
process and get mentorship. His business took off! It hurt to hear about
the lost decade, but it’s amazing to hear where he has taken his business
since he reentered the market.

Guest 14: The Rat Race is Real so Be Careful

I never thought about the Rat Race as I was growing up. I think that
is by design because we are told to go to school, get a good job, and
then make a lot of money so we can buy stuff. That is the American
education and economy in a nutshell. Let’s build employees and get
 them in debt so they work for 40 hours for 40 years and maybe they
live on 40%. No thanks! Our guest shares that he was on this track until
the day he jumped off and bet on himself. It wasn’t easy but he got
through the struggle and is now building wealth via buy and hold
rentals after successfully replacing his income via flipping properties.

Guest 15: Grow your Portfolio at Your Pace and No One Else’s

I end with a simple idea: grow at your pace and no one else’s pace.
Social Media can make you think that everyone makes a million dollars
and has thousands of units. Wrong. I think it is fine to look at that stuff
and be happy for the creator, but please do not let someone else cause
you to go faster or bigger before you are ready. You may never be ready
to go that fast and that big, and that is okay. If your Real Estate
Investing causes you to lose sleep, then it is just not worth it. Real
Estate Investing needs to be a positive and not a negative in your life.

My Top 10 Pieces of Advice

1) Believe in Yourself

One of the things I wish I could do for all the followers of One
Rental at a Time is give each of you confidence in yourself. I interact
with followers daily, and many of the new investors I interact with
seem to lack confidence. Real Estate Investing can appear hard. There
is a lot of vocabulary thrown around, but it is quite simple. Learn your
market. Find or create value. Hold for the long term.

I hope that these 15 stories show you that everyone starts

somewhere and that you can get where they are with focus and daily
execution. You will be amazed at how 60 days of focus and daily
execution can change your life. You can learn a market, understand
average, and start to look for good or great deals.

2) Focus

The first thing I teach in my course How to Get Started One Rental
at a Time is focus. I make this step one because it was the only way I
could learn a market 20 years ago. After I wasted a year looking for
properties in my backyard, I had to go to a new market. Unfortunately, I
chose a market where I knew no one and that I had never visited.

This meant I was behind the eight ball because the market had lots
of active investors already. I then focused on a very tight area. I could
not look at the entire market because I would not learn anything fast
enough. I had to start by focusing on one zip code. Even this was a little
too big because the zip code offered so much variety: different property
types, ages of houses, size of houses, etc. I narrowed my search down
to houses with 3 or 4 bedrooms, two baths, single story with a two-car
garage between 1,250 and 1,600 square feet.

This focus allowed me to become the very best at that property

type. I used this hyper focus for nearly two years before I started to
expand and look at other areas.

3) Daily Execution

Focus is great but unless you look at that focus area every day, it
will prove to be for naught. The Real Estate and lending markets are
always changing, and you never know when a deal will pop up and you
must write an offer.

In my course my students create a spreadsheet to track the daily

changes of their focused area. This allows them to start to build history
and confidence while helping them answer the key question. What is
that question? It is “What is an average deal in your market?” Once you
understand average, you can look for or look to create “good” or
“great” deals.

Without daily execution you will miss the daily changes that
highlight deals and help you learn average. With focus established, you
should be able to get through your daily routine in under 20 minutes.

4) Don’t Overcomplicate the Math

Real Estate Investing offers lots of opportunities to learn and grow

in new areas. Just don’t overcomplicate the math. The math behind Buy
and Hold Real Estate or Flips or anything else is straight forward. It is
simply addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. These are all
things we should have mastered by the eighth grade, if not sooner. I
thought the answer lived in Excel. I wanted to create the most beautiful
spreadsheet to evaluate deals. All I did was overcomplicate things and
build spreadsheets where it was difficult to compare deals and walk
people through which deals were better.

After several months of wasted effort, I threw it all away and started
over, and now my spreadsheet is very simple.

(Monthly Income – Monthly Expenses) * 12 Months = Total

Expected Cash Flow.

I then divide Annual Expected Cash Flow by all of my out-of-

pocket cash required to get deals and any make-ready costs. With that I
get my Yield, and I compare little houses with 20-unit apartment
buildings all the time. I simply buy the property with the highest yield
and not the most units.

5) Grow Your Network

Real Estate Investing is a people business, and I didn’t appreciate

that for the first five years. You will realize over time that the business
gets easier if you know more people and more people know you.

If you have a bigger network, you will have a bigger off-market

deal flow come in your direction. If you have a bigger network, more
people can help in an emergency. The bigger your network, the better
your business will become. Your network will help you in ways you
can’t even appreciate. It might even go unnoticed.

Never stop networking. In the beginning, try and meet at least 1

new person a week. Simply keep asking people, “Who else should I
speak with? Who else should I get to know?” You will be amazed at
how many connections you make. Tell everyone you meet about your
focus area and that you are looking to buy more properties. The more
specific you are, the better. Never say, “I just want a deal.” That is a
clear sign you don’t know what you are doing.
6) Never Stop Learning

Real Estate Investing offers you lots of ways to expand your

experience as cycles come and go. For example, we started buying with
bank loans and then that dried up. Then we had to find hard money
lenders and then that was too expensive. We generated private money to
help us grow and recycle capital. Now there are NQM lenders that offer
a great middle ground between bank rates and hard money lenders.
Lending is just one example. Maybe you start as Buy and Hold and then
move to flipping and you wholesale a deal or two. The key to Real
Estate starts with learning your market and then finding ways to add
value and do deals.

Start with Focus. After a year or two you can expand your mindset.
First learn your focus area. It will become the foundation for building
your business.

I have not and I will never stop learning. This business is so fun. I
look forward to whatever comes next. Enjoy the process and just know
Real Estate Investing will always offer more things to learn and
challenge you as you grow.

7) Join a Group of Likeminded People

One of the strongest things you can do early in the process is get
around other investors that have the same mindset and the same goals.
The beginning of this journey is the hardest so joining a group of
likeminded individuals means you will have others on the same journey
with you. This means you always have a place to ask questions,
celebrate wins (yours or others), and get a jolt of positive energy when
you need to be recharged.

When I created my private Facebook group One Rental at a Time

Works, I didn’t know what I was creating. I simply envisioned a place
where I could post frequently asked questions and go lve once a week.
This Facebook group is now what I call “the happiest place on the
internet.” It is where I go when I need to feel better because everyone in
the group is positive and supportive.

The Facebook group is free for students, but it is worth the price of
the course all by itself. If you buy the course How to Get Started One
Rental at a Time and you have a Facebook account, you should join and
check out the inspirational action.

8) Cut Out Battery Drainers

One of the hardest things I recommend to investors is to audit their

current social circle. Seriously evaluate who is a positive person. Who
is someone that leaves you feeling great and who is not? Some folks are
just negative. Everything is a conspiracy, and they always want to
complain. When you tell them your goals and dreams, they just rain on
your parade and tell you why you are stupid or crazy.

You do not want any battery drainers around as you start your
journey. The journey to a better financial future via Real Estate is hard
enough without having other people bring you down.

Think about it this way. You are hiking up a mountain wearing a

backpack. Some people in your circle will walk with you, and a few
might even ask if they can take part of your load to make it easier for
you. Others will give you their negativity to carry. They will try and trip
you, and they will take your mind off the end goal by talking crazy to
you.

Please remove negative people from your circle. Real Estate

Investing is hard enough and you don’t need to carry negativity from
friends and family.

9) Bad Days Will Happen

Be ready for bad days. They will happen in this business. You will
lose deals. You will have tenants lie to you. You will have people steal
from you. Properties will have surprise maintenance issues. Mother
Nature will do her thing. Tenants bring drama.
 Bad days will happen. They will feel like the end of the world, but
as you move past them you will see it wasn’t that big a deal. You just
had to deal with the issue and move on. Maybe you lost some money,
but you learned a lesson. Whenever possible learn the lesson the first
time because the most expensive mistakes are the ones we repeat
because we didn’t learn the first time.

Truly amazing days will happen the longer you stick around. The
great days outnumber the bad. Few people want to talk about the good
days. They want to hear the stories about toilets, termites and tenant
drama.

10) Enjoy and Document the Journey

Throughout this book, I hope I have made it clear that Real Estate
Investing is a journey. Building a portfolio that replaces your income
will take years to grow. Because it is a long journey, take pictures and
celebrate the little victories. These memories, or what I call
touchstones, will be important to hold onto as you are on your journey
towards a better financial future.

One of my biggest regrets is not having pictures of all the properties

we bought during our journey. It would be great to have a photo in front
of each property and look back on ourselves 20 years ago. We have
been through a lot. I think a wall of those pictures would be so cool to
look back on now. I suppose I could go take pictures now, but it
wouldn’t be the same. I want a picture of myself at 30 and 31 and 32 as
we were building this portfolio. That is the memory I miss and I wish I
had.

Don’t repeat my mistake. Please document your journey and take

pictures along the way as you will love to look back on them in 10 or
20 years. I wish I could!

My Goal for the One Rental at a Time Brand

The evolution of One Rental at a Time has been fun to experience. I can
remember vividly sitting at my kitchen table with a rough outline of my
original book trying to pick a title. I thought about what I needed to read
years ago when I was thirsty for knowledge and desperately trying to find
proof that a full-time employee could build a Real Estate portfolio that
ultimately led to financial freedom.

I scribbled out different ideas for hours before it finally hit me like a ton
of bricks. One Rental at a Time (ORaaT) is all I focused on for 15 years. It
was how I built the portfolio. I kept my head down and kept looking for the
next rental property. I felt really good about the title of the book. I then
started to think about our journey and how we could help others see the
power of One Rental at a Time.

The brand of One Rental at a Time has grown from there and
undoubtedly will grow further as we help more and more people believe it is
possible to have better financial futures. One of the things I have created in
the last year that I am very proud of is my “Positive Impact Score” (Sample
Below June 1 – June 28, 2021).

My Positive Impact Score allows me to evaluate my positive impact

every Sunday. I get to see if my daily effort, time and energy are helping
more people or less people every week. Looking at my Positive Impact
Score via this lens is unique and gratifying. We are helping over 10,000
people per day across all our platforms with hopes of getting to 100,000 per
day in the near future.

The Positive Impact Score leads to how many deals my students and
followers close each week. Everything I do is to help people take action, do
the work, and close good or great deals in their chosen market.
 Positive Impact Score Variables

YouTube Views and Podcast Listens:

Everything starts with original content creation. Thanks to my Daily

Financial News, My Expert Series, livestreams, and interviews, I average
five brand new videos a day. This means I produce a lot of content, and I
don’t expect anyone to watch all of them. Instead, I hope to cover several
key topics that are interesting to lots of people as we bring more and more
people into the One Rental at a Time World.

Because views or listens are very early in the process, I only multiply it
by a factor of 1. You will see every other variable tracked gets a higher
multiple because I believe each subsequent variable gets you closer to your
first or next deal.

Book Sales:
 The next variable I track is book sales. One Rental at a Time and this
book are available in paperback, Kindle and Audible because I want to make
sure you can consume content as you desire.

When someone picks up one of my books, they are likely committing

several hours of their life to the consumption of the material. This time
commitment means that the reader is getting more serious, and they are
getting to know me more. That is why I multiply weekly book sales by a
factor of 10. It is one thing to watch a video, but it is entirely different to buy
and read or listen to a book for three hours.

5 Star Book Reviews:

 The next variable I track is how many five-star reviews get added to
Amazon or Audible. It is one thing to buy my book, but to then go back and
take 3-5 minutes to write a review is truly amazing and that is why I give
book reviews a multiple of 100.

I see a five-star book review as the first variable where the reader goes
out of his way to do something solely for me. No one has to write a review.
Most people don’t. Even if they love my book and they plan to write a
review, it takes time and commitment. Life gets busy and people forget all
the time.

A five-star book review on this book or One Rental at a Time or both

would be amazing. Thank you for taking a few minutes out of your busy day
to write a review. Each and every review means the world to me.
Course Signups
 As I started my Real Estate journey, I was not thinking about creating a
course. However, as I helped more and more people, it became clear I had to
do something because I couldn’t help enough people without it. I chose to
leverage the Teachable platform because it was easy to use and allowed me
to easily create and add content.

I chose to first release a free course called Protecting, Growing and

Strengthening the Middle Class because that is who I was when I started
investing. I was simply working my day job and spending all my money. I
was getting nowhere fast. I wanted people to know they can choose to take
their financial life to the next level. I add content to the free course all the
time. You can find the link on my website OneRentalataTime.com
 I next created my most popular course to date called How to Get Started
One Rental at a Time. This is the course that documents everything I did to
learn a market I never lived in, how I compare deals and how I grew my
network. Many experts have chosen to add bonus content to this course. I
won’t discuss topics I have no experience in, but it is amazing to see other
experts add content to subjects such as:

Raising Private Money

Seller Financing

Subject To

Flipping

House Hacking

Self-Management

Mortgage 101

We have commitments for even more content around AirBnb,

Syndications, and Section 8. I fully expect more experts to volunteer to
create more bonus sections as we continue to grow our community of like-
minded individuals.

My third course is a critical but often ignored part of becoming

financially free. I call it Get Your Money Right, The Game of Money. Like
the previous course, this one was built on my experience of getting our
family money right as we started our portfolio. We had to understand our
income, expenses and most importantly, our wants and needs because we
needed to dramatically reduce expenses so we could have more Freedom
Dollars each month.

Many folks look at the course as a budgeting course, but it is so much

more than that. One of the exercises is called “Choices,” and it is where you
make some hard choices. You can decide where you need to be now so you
can be where you want later. It highlights how some short-term sacrifices
could lead to long-term gains.
 The Get Your Money Right course is amazing because it simply requires
you to look in the mirror and understand what you are spending, what you
could be spending, and what you should be investing.

For my Positive Impact Score, I multiply each course signup by 1,000. It

doesn’t matter if you sign up for the free course or the paid course, it will
count as 1,000. If you sign up for all three, it will count as 3,000. Do me a
favor and go to OneRentalAtaTime.com now and register for the free course
so I can count an extra 1,000 towards my weekly positive impact score.
Thank you in advance, and I hope you enjoy it.

Lastly, I am working on a course that has not been released yet, but
likely will be released in the next year. I want to create a course on how to
turn your hobby or passion into a side hustle that generates thousands of
dollars a month. Like the other courses, I will only be talking about things I
have done.

Over the last year, I have created multiple streams of income based on
my passion for Real Estate Investing. This passion honed over decades has
led to book sales, a YouTube channel, online course sales and other streams
of income. I have done nothing special other than consistently share my
passion with the world, and I believe everyone can turn their passion or
hobby into thousands of dollars of extra income that we can use to pay down
debt or buy more assets.

This income will start as a side hustle, but it can grow into significant
income if you chose to focus on it. I will focus on that course after this book
is published because I want to share what I have learned over the three years
I went from $0 to $10K per month with a side hustle. I will share details and
actual numbers in the course because I want folks to understand where I
come from and how their hobby or passion can lead to significant income.

Private Facebook Group Growth

 I suspect that I will ultimately be best known for creating a private
Facebook group called One Rental at a Time Works. This is a group that is
growing weekly. It’s so much fun to interact with it daily and watch it grow.
I originally created it as a simple place to capture frequently asked questions.
However, it has morphed into a spot where folks network, celebrate wins,
and encourage others to enjoy the process.

I find the private group to be a place I can go to each day and just smile
when I see the growth and the positive interactions. I have wonderful
contributors in the group that go out of their way to welcome new members
and answer questions in their areas of expertise. These contributors are the
backbone of the group, and my hope is more wonderful contributors join as
we make our way to over 10,000 members someday.

Hope to see you in the group one day soon: One Rental at a Time Works

Each new member of the Group has a scale of 10,000 for the Weekly
Positive Impact Score.

Deals Closed

My entire Positive Impact Score leads to this point because I want to

help my followers and students close Good Deals or Great Deals. It takes
focus and daily execution, but it is possible in all markets. I will admit that
some markets are easier than others, but once you do the work you will see
opportunities that you might have missed before.

Each closed deal is scaled by 100,000, and they are the biggest factor in
my weekly score. I do not count offers, open escrows, etc. I only count
closed transactions because I don’t want to skew the data with deals that
don’t close and help investors move forward.
 Do me a favor. If this book or anything I create has helped you, please let
me know when you close deals. I have big goals, so I need to know when
deals close as they have the largest impact on my weekly score. You could
tag me on IG or Facebook or you can simply email me at
mzuber@onerentalatatime.com

Goal For Weekly Positive Impact Score

My current goal for a weekly positive impact score is 1,000,000. Every

13 weeks I look at the trend and increase the target as I want to positively
impact more and more people as each week goes by. I truly believe that one
day soon we will be talking about a goal for my Positive Impact Score that
exceeds 10,000,000. This would mean that my followers and students will be
closing 60 -70 deals every week. Would that be amazing? I can’t wait.
 The Original One Rental at a Time logo just felt right when it was
created and placed on the book cover. I love the idea that the book cover
showed a house with a plus sign signifying one more rental.
 After years of running with the original logo I felt it might be better if I
replaced the “+” with a “1” to better match the idea of One Rental at a Time.
It is a simple purple and white logo.
 I like the idea that Rentals are a Passive Income Generator (Pig) and,
thus, who wouldn’t want a Pig that produces money? I thought it was a fun
and cute design that will make people smile and maybe laugh.
 Who doesn’t want some mailbox money? I hear that saying a lot, so I
thought, “Why not create a fun image of money falling out of your
mailbox?” If you want mailbox money, you might as well get the shirt to
match.
 Being Cash Rich Asset Poor, or C.R.A.P., is no fun. I call this my private
money shirt because it can spark conversation about why being Cash Rich
Asset Poor is not a good Idea.
After creating C.R.A.P., I needed to figure out the opposite and, thus, Asset
Rich Cash Happy or A.R.C.H. was created. Here you have an arch raining
cash on properties.
 Over the last year, “Do the Work” has become a frequent phrase of mine,
so I needed the sweatshirt. I leverage this shirt a lot when I work out in the
morning during cold weather. It reminds me to keep doing the work.
 I thought this shirt was fun as it stands for One Rental at a Time, but it
takes some time to think about as you look at it.
 “No Alligator” is something I say all the time because you don’t want to
buy or create rentals that produce negative cash flow.
 The only picture in my original book can be found on this shirt. I just
love the image of this alligator eating bags full of money, and to have “No
Alligators” on the roof is just so cool.
 Weekly Experts on One Rental at a Time
YouTube Channel
As a content creator on YouTube who aims to create 5 pieces of original
content every single day I want to thank all of my experts who make it
possible. Our conversations every week are fun and helpful as we are
making a difference in the world. Their willingness to give up 1 hour a
week each and every week is one of the reasons One Rental at a Time has
grown so fast.

I call each and everyone of these experts a friend and I would be remiss
if I didn’t give them each a special shout out in this book. Below you will
learn a little about each one as they will share a short Bio and then I will
share my quick thoughts.

Thank you Laura, Greg, Matt, Omar, Anna, Matt, Jonathon, Dion, Ty,
Dana, Steven, Burton. Simply said I could not achieve my weekly mission of
creating at least 35 Pieces of Original Content about Real Estate Investing
without all your support. Each of you is a critical part of my week and I
enjoy all our conversations.

Your Friend, Michael Zuber

Laura Morby

Laura is an Arizona native who was raised with love and passion for
homes. Her father has been in the construction industry for over 40
years and passed down the principles that honesty and quality work are
one of the most important standards in life and business. Her love of
numbers attracted her to the banking industry early on where she was in
the top 10% of the company for customer service. It also led to her
studying mathematics at Arizona State University. Her Critical thinking
and detail-oriented personality allow her to analyze every possible
situation in real estate and come up with a solution. She was also
nominated member of the Chandler Service Club Flower Girls, an
honor given to exceptional women in the community who do charity
work. Laura has also received a community service award from former
Governor Jane D. Hull.

Her passion to help others is carried through to her business where

she constantly goes above and beyond to service your real estate need.
Laura is currently in the Top 1% of Realtors in the State of Arizona
with a specialty in helping investors. Laura’s accreditations and
associations include: National Association of Realtors, Arizona
Association of Realtors, Southeast Valley Regional Associations of
Realtors, Arizona Regional Multiple Listing Service, Arizona School of
Real Estate and Business.

Laura is committed to making a difference in this world by

providing exceptional professional service while demonstrating a high
level of integrity to her clients, maintaining a balanced life, and giving
back to her community.

Zuber:

Laura is my Sunday morning guest and is in the Top 1% of Real

Estate Agents in Arizona, has been investing for nearly 20 years and is
part of a husband and wife team that invest around the country. Our
weekly conversations are wide ranging but often cover current market
conditions, past investing lessons and we answer Newbie questions.
You can Find Her Playlist Called Laura Morby on my YouTube
Channel called One Rental at a Time.
Greg Dickerson

Greg is a serial entrepreneur, real estate developer, coach and

mentor. Starting with no money, no formal education and no backers,
he has bought, developed and sold over $250 million in real estate, built
and renovated hundreds of custom homes and commercial buildings,
developed residential and mixed use subdivisions and started scaled and
exited 12 different companies. Greg currently coaches and mentors
some of the top entrepreneurs and real estate investors around the world
helping them start, grow and scale their business, raise more capital and
do bigger deals. Greg's current clients have over $2 billion in AUM and
deals in process. Greg is an expert on the topics of entrepreneurship,
leadership and real estate and is regularly interviewed on some of the
top real estate investing and business podcasts today. Greg served in the
United States Navy right out of high school and has always been a
leader in the community as well as supporting, advising and serving on
the boards of several churches, ministries and non-profit organizations.

Zuber:

Greg has been a regular weekly guest on Monday mornings for over
a year now and we have nearly 100 Hours of Content Created and
Shared. As a true Entrepreneur, Business Owner and Investor our topics
are wide ranging and never boring. We could be talking about starting a
business, ground up development or how to find value in a changing
market. You can find his Playlist called Greg Dickerson on my
YouTube Channel called One Rental at a Time. Greg is a great example
of the American Dream as he quit his job and bet on himself decades
ago and just kept moving forward to great success.
 Omar Alfaro

The Journey in My Real Estate Business started 18 years ago, I went from
being a server at the family restaurant, to bartending in Las Vegas to Getting
my Real Estate License at 23. It was quite the challenge to start in an
Industry I didn’t know anything about. My Motivation for Everything are
my Daughters Savanna Monet & Gianna Valentina!! Love You Both!

After having Conversations about Real Estate My Dad would always tell me
“Mijo Buy a House when you can” so at 24 Years Old I bought my first
house for $150K which I still own today. Miss You Pops!

While Learning the Ropes of this business you will have challenges,
setbacks, victories, more setbacks and even more challenges, Just DON’T
QUIT!
Fast forward to now I have established myself in this industry, Selling
1600+ homes thus far, and still actively helping clients Buy, Sell and Invest
in Real Estate. I’ve flipped over 160+ properties which has been a great way
to increase capital, to then reinvest in investment properties, currently I own
34 Doors that consist of SFR, Multi Units, Commercial Buildings, and
AirBNB Properties that cash flow monthly!

Succeeding in real estate takes incredible amounts of dedication, time, hard

work, and knowledge. We all know that in achieving success there can be no
shortcuts, so pay attention to people that actually have done it or are
currently doing it!

Focus on helping more people and you’ll in turn receive the rewards by
servicing others.

Currently I am a Broker Owner and Team Leader for Alfaro & Associates at
Corcoran Global Living in Hesperia, California. I have a motto for the
Team! Which is Inspire | Educate | Expand When you focus on helping
professionals get Inspired by what you can accomplish, and you Educate
them on how to do this business, then you can then help them EXPAND
their knowledge to see what is possible!

Looking forward to Helping you EXPAND

Zuber:

Omar is a regular weekly guest on Tuesday and a Real Estate

Entrepreneur who runs a top Brokerage in Southern California High
Desert Area. Besides building and inspiring a high performing team
Omar is constantly marketing for off market deals to flip, has AirBnB
units and has a portfolio of rental units. Our weekly conversations range
from sales mentoring, market discussions, and building a highly
profitable business. You can find his Playlist on my YouTube Channel
caller One Rental at a Time. I appreciate our weekly conversations as
they are fun, always positive and we are not afraid to tell people to
work harder and set big goals.
 Matt Lumberjack Landlord

We learn through stories. We inherit the narratives of people who have

charted a path from adversity to success. What is success? To me, "The
Lumberjack Landlord", it is mastery of the real estate market and financial
security; it is tearing down walls and breaking through barricades; it is
taking the lies about what one “must” do to be successful, and dismantling
them, one by one.
You are witnessing my greatest success' - which is my opportunity to share
the lessons I have learned buying real estate to create financial freedom, and
offer encouragement that you, too, can achieve success, whatever success
means to you. This is more than just my story; it’s a critical reminder of the
immense power you have to control your destiny. In addition to invaluable
tactical advice, I hope my stories give you confidence to start building a life
that leaves you fulfilled. And you can start building today. i hope you stay
hungry and achieve more than you ever imagined possible.
I beat the odds; I wasn’t supposed to win in life. But instead of folding in the
face of objectively daunting challenges, I turned my pain into fuel. My story
is one of personal triumph. It is strikingly honest, and is a testament to my
desire to uplift and encourage viewers/readers like you. You will walk away
from my stories with tremendous knowledge about creative ways to get on
the property ladder with the 4-3-2-1 house hackology method, but you will
learn even more about tenacity, grit, and the criticality of not playing
small.

Zuber

The Lumberjack Landlord is a 9th grade dropout that built a real

estate portfolio One Rental at a Time. He focused on House Hacking
and Self-Management out of necessity and just kept moving forward
one property at a time. The fire that it takes to accomplish what he did
is what legends are made of and we are very lucky to speak with him
weekly. Our weekly conversations occur on Tuesday and we talk all
things real estate investing, land lording and new investors. You can
find his Playlist on my YouTube Channel caller One Rental at a Time.
In addition the Lumberjack has create Bonus content for my Real Estate
Investing course around House Hacking and his millionaire creating
strategy called 4-3-2-1.
 Anna REI Mom Kelley

Anna Kelley has ownership in and asset manages over 1200

multifamily units across the US, valued at $165M, and has invested in over
2000 doors. Anna runs a multifamily company, Greater Purpose Capital,
LLC, focused on creating meaningful impact on the communities in which
she and her investors invest. She is a 4X Amazon #1 Best Selling Author,
real estate coach, and sought after speaker for multifamily events across the
country. In the last 20 years, she has purchased, renovated, and rented
millions of dollars in real estate across numerous asset classes. She enjoys
buying luxury vacation rentals and traveling with her children. Anna worked
in the financial sector for 25 years and was a top ranked Private Banker for
Bank of America, where she managed the portfolios of high net worth
individuals and businesses. Find Anna at GreaterPurposeCapital.com and on
Facebook, Instagram, & Linked-in at Anna Reimom Kelley.

Zuber:

Anna is our longest running weekly guest whose shows air on

Wednesdays. She has a truly amazing story of achieving financial
freedom via One Rental at a Time that starts with house hacking a
fourplex. After leaving her day job behind she has gone on to do even
bigger things such as syndication and million dollar beach front
property. Our Weekly conversations are all over the place and can
range from current deal flow, pain of last crash or current lending
environment. Anna believe in One Rental at a Time YouTube channel
long before anyone else and I owe her a huge thank you.
Jonathon Twombly

Jonathon is President and Managing Member of Two Bridges Asset

Management LLC. Before founding Two Bridges, he was a partner in
the real estate investment firm TRB Investment Group LLC. He began
his career as a lawyer and spent over a decade practicing in American
Lawyer Top 100 firms, where he focused on real estate and hospitality
matters.

His mission is to provide investors with the highest possible returns

consistent with the preservation of their capital, through strictly vetted
investments in safe, clean, well-located housing priced within reach of
the typical hard-working American family.

Mr. Twombly holds a bachelor’s degree from Harvard College and a

law degree from Columbia University School of Law. He currently
serves as a member of the board of directors of the Harvard Alumni
Real Estate Organization, Inc., a non-profit.
 Zuber

Jonathon is an Attorney who has successfully syndicated millions of

dollars in real estate deals. I respect Jonathon a lot because most
syndicators don’t have his moral compass and they are happy to do bad
deals just to collect their fees. Jonathon on the other hand told his
investors that the market was richly valued and he was going to sell and
give them all their money back plus great profits. I enjoy our weekly
conversations on Thursday and we discuss the economy, warning signs
of bad deal structures and so much more.
Ty Leon Guerrero

Ty Leon Guerrero is a real estate investor along with being a

California real estate broker, buying and selling since 1993. With over
2,000+ closed transactions... he has extensive experience dealing with
bank foreclosures, pre-foreclosure, probate, trusts, bad tenants,
evictions, REO's, and creative financing including "sub to's". A
frequent guest speaker, and collaborator for many real estate
masterminds, seminars and podcasts... Ty takes pride & joy in sharing
his experience and knowledge with others.

In addition Ty helps lead a tremendous group of investors and real

estate agents called Squad Up. The idea is simple we are more powerful
together and the Squad Up community proves you can do more
together.

Zuber

Ty is a tremendous resource for all real estate investors and real

estate agents as he has seen it all in nearly 30 years. Having a resource
with that kind of history and experience means we can talk about all
kinds of topics and we can go back in time to see what happened last
time. For example his first real estate transaction that he remembers
was a Subject To when interest rates were double digits.

Something I appreciate about Ty is that he has a big heart for new

investors and new agent as he is always giving back and helping others.
Ty and I talk every Friday and you can find his Playlist simply called
Ty.

Dion Talk Financial Freedom

 Dion McNeeley a former Marine and Desert Storm veteran, was
laid off from a police department in 2008. He found out about 89k in
bad debt in his name, he didn’t know about until the divorce.
Using the strategies in One Rental at a Time, Dion was able to
eliminate bad debt and become financial freedom in less than 10 years.
As of July 2021 Dion has 16 rental units, is house hacking and living
for free. He has made work optional and shares his story on his
YouTube channel called Dion Talk Financial Freedom that just hit 6k
subscribers. He was featured in BiggerPockets episode 448.
 I am still learning and love to share what he’s learned so far.
Dion contributed the self managing portion of the course “How to Get
Started One Rental at a Time” and is an Active Member of The Private
Facebook Group called One Rental at a Time Works.

Zuber

Dion has an amazing heart and is always willing to help and coach
new investors. Dion’s no nonsense and straight forward approach is
awesome and thoroughly enjoy our conversations. Dion’s story of negative
net worth to financial is amazing and something everyone should hear. One
thing Dion does on his YouTube Channel so creative and amazing. He
breaks down a subject where he takes two sides of a question. One in
particular that was fun is Dion talking to his younger self where he told him
he needed more debt to get out of debt. That episode blew my mind as it
was so helpful. The fact that I get to speak with Dion every Thursday is
truly amazing. Lastly the fact he agreed to add Self-Management to my
Online Course is an honor as I have no experience with Self Management
and his Binder Strategy to get tenants to raise rents is next level powerful.
Matt the Mortgage Guy

Matt Gougé (Matt The Mortgage Guy) spent 5 years in direct

lending before making the switch to Independent Mortgage Broker
in 2018. As an independent mortgage broker he takes pride in
advising a wide variety of clients with diverse needs as to which
lender and loan product is right for them and their scenario.

With a degree in Finance and a passion for people Matt feels like
he was built for the mortgage industry. In the past few years he has
 built out a team that shares his passion for serving people and
together they serve hundreds of families per year.

As a homeowner and real estate investor I can relate to many of

the scenarios I come across working with all types of great people.
My straightforward and honest advise comes from personal
experience in mortgage and real estate, I’m giving advice I would
give myself if I had the same scenario.

Zuber

As I was building out my Expert Panel I knew I needed to add a

mortgage lender as understanding the mortgage market is critical to
understanding the real estate market. I have seen lenders be aggressive
and go conservative which impacts real estate values.

Finding Matt the Mortgage guy has been really refreshing as we

talk every Wednesday and he can talk owner occupant or investor
which means we can tackle any topic the OraaT family wants to
discuss. You can find his Playlist called Matt the Mortgage Guy on my
YouTube Channel caller One Rental at a Time.

Lastly Matt has been gracious enough to create a Bonus section

called Mortgage 101 for my How to get Started One Rental at a Time
course. The bonus section answers all your mortgage questions and
even helps you understand how to read a Loan Estimate that could save
you thousands.

Email Matt@MattTheMortgage.com If you Need a Home Loan or

Refinance
Steven Dao

Starting in 1995 after years in the underground lender tournament

FUNDERDOME (2 AEs enter, 1 AE leaves). Steve Dao stepped up to
the big leagues and into NON QM and has been effectively funding
difficult loans for several decades now. He is a licensed alpaca sheerer
as a side hobby and uses many of the lessons learned from trimming
alpaca fur to the lending industry. Hard work, dedication, always wear
gloves, and don’t run with scissors in your hands.

Zuber

As someone who has been through several cycles in the real estate
market now I know how important it is to have access to non bank
lending. If you read my first book you know I was paying 10%-12%
Interest on Hard and Private Money because I didn’t know any better.
Enter Non QM Lenders who play between Banks and Hard Money and
I knew I had to find someone who has history in the business, is
customer oriented and down to talk shop every week. Our
conversations occur every Friday morning and frequently focus on the
Lending Market and actual deals the OraaT Family are doing. You can
find his Playlist called NQM Lender Steve Dao on my YouTube
Channel called One Rental at a Time.

Email sdao@Velocitymortgage.com to see if NQM Lender can help

you.
 Dana Dunford

I worked at the quintessential Silicon Valley tech companies before finding

my passion for property management. Working at Nest, I became fascinated
by how technology was enabling people to manage aspects of their home
(thermostat, security, etc.) from a distance. Merging my two interests
together, technology and real estate, I embarked on building Hemlane, a
technology-enabled property management platform.
As 72% of rental properties self-managed, I support real estate investors in
setting up an automated system to manage their rental properties from
anywhere, while connecting them to local, licensed professionals. Today,
Hemlane helps real estate investors with between 1 to 150 rental properties.
We're in all 50 states and have 14,000+ rentals under management.

Zuber

I first spoke with Dana 5+ Years ago when she was interviewing
existing landlords to see what applications we used and how we could
be served better. Her interest was clear right from day one and it has
been fun to watch her take her passion and create an amazing platform
for landlords across the country. Our weekly conversations occur every
other Thursday and focus on Landlords with a specific focus on new
landlords. Dana cares about the One Rental at a Time community so
much that she went above and beyond and created and then recorded a
series of Videos outlining how best to use Hemlane 30 Day Trial. You
can sign up here www.hemlane.com – Make sure you mention One
Rental at a Time and you can get a 20% discount on first year.
 Burton Alicando

Burton Alicando is the Senior Product Specialist for PropStream, the nation's
leading provider of multi-sourced property data. PropStream is specifically
designed for investors and licensed real estate professionals and helps to
simplify and accelerate the process of generating targeted, qualified leads.

Mr. Alicando began his career with an emphasis in technology and customer
service. He has been with PropStream nearly since its inception and has
played a key role in user training and customer experience over the last
decade. His passion for Real Estate is evident and complements his technical
expertise of PropStream. Mr. Alicando thrives on training effective use
strategies of PropStream with individuals and large groups alike, both in-
person and remote. You will hear his smile through the phone while his
knowledge of the application, and data, helps hundreds of clients daily.

When Mr. Alicando is not engaged in a training session with new clients, he
enjoys spending time with his 8 year old son, mastering video games, and
reading comic books.

Get a Discount on PopStream with: https://trial.propstreampro.com/ORaaT/

Zuber

Burton and PopStream is the latest Expert to join the One Rental at
a Time community. Our conversations occur every other Thursday and
talk all things Big Data and Real Estate. My last software job was
working at a Big Data Platform provider and I know the power in
having access to different data sources in one location. With Real
Estate Investing it is critical and for most of my investing career it was
nearly impossible except for the some crude excel macros and simple
lead stacking. However PopStream now puts the power in the hands of
the investors. To be clear the value of any big data platform boils down
to the Questions asked by the operator.

I suggest you give the 7 Day Free Trial above a Shot as you might
unlock information you had no idea was out there.
 Josh Culler

Josh has been in the real estate investing industry since 2013 and has
been apart of hundreds of deals as a marketing director. Owner of Culler
Media and REI.VIDEO, Josh focuses his services on active real estate
investors and real estate influencers providing content marketing. Primarily
video content and podcasting. REI.VIDEO services those who film their
own video content but need editing done. Culler Media services those who
need a more white glove approach which includes content production, copy
writing, and distribution. Josh has two podcasts to educate you on content
marketing and real estate marketing! The Content Marketing Playbook and
the REI Marketing Weekly which can both be found on any podcast
platform.

Zuber

Josh Culler from Culler Media deserves a lot of credit for the birth
and growth of One Rental at a Time. Josh was the creator that helped
turn my rough draft of One Rental at a Time into the Amazon Best
Seller it is today. He created the cover and did all of the hard work
getting the rough draft formatted and uploaded. From there Josh helped
turn my YouTube Videos into a Podcast that now has 1M listens and
daily content. Lastly Josh helped grow my Instagram followers from a
few hundred to 10,000+ by creating daily fresh content. I want to thank
Josh for believing in One Rental at a Time and pushing me to be better
and better every day as we inspire and help others more and more.