A dialogue on Philosophy of dialogue: Imagining Martin Buber

Manjiri, a college student, during the Covid-19 lockdown found herself struck with her
limitations to overcome the domineering effects of the situation. She not only battled with the
high distress resulting from her helplessness but a deeper sense of death anxiety
surrounded her. One day when she left for the market to get some essential commodities,
she trembled along the way as she witnessed some migrant workers passing by the main
road. They were a lot in number and their appearance revealed the poor state of their well-
being. Apart from reading in the news, it was for the first time since the lockdown in the real
world when her attention shifted from self-concern to the other people of the world. As she
found others in a much more miserable state than herself, she experienced a deep empathy
with the cause. With this restlessness, her mind wandered to seek answers about the human
existence, the matter of life and death, and the meaning of life as well. With these thoughts
in mind, Manjiri slept off. In her sleep, as she reached the REM state of dreams, the
philosopher Martin Buber was standing next to her when she got up from the bed early
morning. Manjiri got shocked as to what one of his favourite philosophers is doing in her
house. She recalled Buber as the 21st Jewish political philosopher, who is best known for
his philosophy of dialogue. But she had never expected that her dream of meeting him would
come true. As she settled, they had a long conversation about the situation.

Man (Manjiri): Oh, Good Morning sir. I am very surprised to see you here. I mean…

MB (Martin Buber): I know Manjiri, I thought, since so much is going around, I will
come and check with you if you are fine.

Man: I am fine, or maybe not. I don’t know. I am more troubled about the world, the state that
we have reached. I don’t know how to make sense of it, and quite hopeless about the
future.

MB: Yes, I am aware of the intensive effects of this contagion. Many people have lost
their lives and livelihood. A pandemic like this is a huge tragedy for the whole
civilization.

Man: Since you are here, I wouldn’t lose the opportunity to get some answers from you. I will
go and make tea for us both first?
MB: Sure. I would love to have this conversation over a cup of tea.

(Manjiri prepares tea and sets ready for the conversation)

MB: See, Manjiri, first of all, I would say that this pandemic is the result of an I-It
relation between man and nature. As the grammatical expression implies, the I-It
expression is the typical subject-object relationship.

Man: Let me guess, in the context of Covid-19, it implies that man has been treating nature
as an object.

MB: Yes, as an object of use and experience. In his I-It life, there is the objectification
of people and things without allowing them to exist for themself in their uniqueness.
There is also an excessive tendency to consume things for one’s use.
Man: That’s true. During the lockdown, due to a lack of resources, people realized that they
could survive with fewer resources and that they were living a life of overconsumption.

MB: One cause of this manipulation is that Man views himself as isolated from nature.
He has lost sight of a holistic picture where he is a part of nature and not separate
from it. On the contrary, an I-Thou relation is one in which there is a mutual dialogic
relationship of openness, directness, mutuality, and presence. It is the one in which
each experiences one ‘other’, implying that seeing the other as it is, and not from the
lens of one’s biased perspective. One doesn’t always need an ecologist to understand
the mutual exchange between nature and the man. One can observe and see how
both man and nature help and shape each other.
This relation occurs between man and man, but extends to animals, nature, all living
and nonliving beings, objects, and all forms of beings. The ultimate relation is that
with God, and man has the responsibility to co-create the world with God.

Man: Since your philosophy is that of God, is it the same as popular Jewish or biblical
tradition?

MB: I differ from the traditional view of religion which means passivity- taking upon
oneself inherited laws. Religion is a sum of customs, crystallized in dogmas. On the
other hand, I believe in religiousness which means activity- an elementary setting
oneself in relation to the absolute. Religion is true only as long as it is fruitful and it is
fruitful only as long as religiousness can fill precepts and dogmas with new meanings
and inwardly transform them to meet the needs of each new generation.

Man: So, you have sort of re-defined religion for the modern world.
In your worldview, has man created this pandemic or God?

MB: Man’s evil acts have caused the pandemic. Man’s relation with animals, trees,
and man has lacked a genuine relationship which is the cause of evil. A modern man
is misled in the new world of individualism. What is called as individualism is just
self-will, a whimsical self- based action devoid of any concern for the other and the
world. A true individuality is one in which one deeply engages with the other, has a
dialogic relationship, experiences the other, and yet holds its uniqueness. Such a
relation can unfold the uniqueness of both the people and is formed on mutual care,
concern, and understanding of each other. Not that collectivist culture is better, in
modern times, collectivism has failed too, it is superficial and lacks a true
engagement of the community.

Man: Is modernity evil then?

MB: It can be said that there are 4 types of evil of modern age- Loneliness, inner
duality, technology, and totalitarian state. Loneliness leads to excessive I-It
indulgence, and technology is one of the mediums of that. The inner duality is caused
by a difference in thought, feeling, and act of the man. A ruling state is evil when there
is excessive power in their hands but an absence of direction.

Man: Yes, okay, but modernity also brought art, culture, and development.

MB: Yes, but as I said, it lost its direction. There is a tendency of metaphysics,
politics, etc. to become independent of religious life. The way politicians and states
today carry out environmental degradation, and build corporations by taking away the
land of the poor in the name of development and economy is a clear example of that.
Modern man enjoys aesthetic and religious experiences independent of one another.
Thus, there are meditation and yoga camps where only paid membership customers
are allowed and given privilege. The socio-economic inequality goes against the
religious principles. Modernity has separated ‘living in god’ and ‘living in the world’.

Man: I can think of an example. An urban city dweller modern man, a factory owner, out of
work during the pandemic, stops paying his poor tenant/migrant labourer to join a paid online
yoga class for that amount of money.

MB: Correct. You see, as a result, religion for this person is only one aspect of his life
rather than its totality.

Man: But that landowner is also relatively poor and hence his action of saving money and
building his wealth for his future can be justified.

MB: This distinction of relativity and absolutism-obedience to what we desire and

what is right, is very sharp. If the value of helping doesn’t stand apart from the
person, it also doesn’t stand in his subjective feeling or interest. The domination of
subjective-objective duality is the source of a lot of problems. There is no such thing
as pure selfishness or unselfishness since no self originates or exists in isolation
from others. Whether the help provided is for one’s self or the other can’t be located. I
am against any extreme, instead, the answer lies in between, the narrow ridge. The
value lies in between I and Thou which is not IT yet and is other than the I. The Thou
is realized in the constant process of becoming.

Man: Okay, so modern man has done this evil. What is the way out of it, this pandemic?

MB: Hasidism, a mystical movement of Judaism, gives man a responsibility to bring

about the redemption of the world, and the freedom to do evil as well as good. Evil
can’t be seen in isolation of goodness. Evil and good have a dialectical relationship.
Evil exists to be turned into good. One must also love evil…even evil wishes to be
loved; good can be maximized not through the rejection or conquest of evil but only
through the transformation of evil, the use of its energy, and passion in the service of
the good.
The isolation which is now being called as quarantine and lockdown is for the man to
contemplate the source of this pandemic. Man has to take on a collective
responsibility to turn evil into good.

Man: Where to begin with?

MB: A good beginning would be by turning inwards. Evil exists and it always will. By
acknowledging the evil, man has to not rid of it but turn the passion underlying the
evil into good. By knowing himself, one discovers evil first of all in the meeting with
oneself. Evil is the absence of direction and relation. The turning has to be towards
God, which will give the man a direction to be ethical.

Man: Can it be said that evil is I-It and good is I-Thou?

MB: Yes.

Man: hmm

MB: Man, also has to acquire a realization. As opposed to orientation, which divides,
man has to realize: the realization is that of non-duality between spirit and matter and
other forms, between being and becoming, reason and will, and negative and
positive.

Man: Is this similar to the idea of oneness that others have talked about?

MB: Yes, the perception of the oneness of the universe is to be realized. A realized
person can see how pandemic in China and the USA will affect India as well, and thus
such a person won’t be a hyper-nationalist- loving one’s own country at the cost of
another. Such a person will be equally concerned for people in other countries as
much as in India not as a self-defense but in genuine care for the other.

Man: In today’s popular language, such a person will be anti-national!

MB: A realized person is not defined by public opinion, social status, and free from
social and psychological conditioning. He responds and does not react to the external
world. Hence, he is free to act in response to concrete external events. Taking an
informed action towards the building of the community is an act of meeting God.

Man: Can you elaborate more on how to become self- realized?

MB: For that, man has to enter the I-Thou relation. There are two steps to that. First is,
‘primal setting at a distance’. This includes seeing oneself from an objective position,
as an outsider, and setting oneself free from the social and psychological
conditioning. In this way, every individual in this pandemic has to generate a distant
perspective of the pandemic, separate from his present identity in his world, separate
from others’ interpretation of it. The second step is ‘entering into relation’ which
includes entering into relation with the world as the apperception of being as a whole
and unity. Distance will provide the human being with his situation, and relation will
provide man his becoming in that situation.

Man: It isn’t easy to be spiritual in such times when people are surrounded by death, are
grieving over their losses, and fearing the potential losses ahead.

MB: Yes, I am aware that civilization is going through a mental breakdown with a
destruction bigger than war. However, it is in these very times of destruction that
creation is understood. It is in fact, the best time to be spiritually inclined. There is a
norm of social distancing, but no one is stopping anyone to meet themselves. It is in
such grieving times of suffering and wonder of existential crisis when one discovers
themselves.

Man: So, does that mean that we should stay in solitude and discover ourselves at this time?

MB: Partly. God is realized only when individual beings open to one another,
communicate with one another and help one another. The true place of realization is
the community, and the true community is that in which the godly is realized between
men. To reiterate the two steps told above, social distancing and self- reflection in
solitude is the first part that man has to do, and the other half of realization would
occur when a man helps the community to come out of the pandemic.

Man: It sounds like a mix of religion and socialism.

MB: You can say, religious socialism. A true state is not dependent on socialist or
capitalist principles but will of individuals and groups to establish a communal
economy.
Man: So, God can be realised by helping other men. But, how to enter into relation with
God?

MB: Man can enter into a relationship with God by the mediation of not just senses,
but through the symbolic communication with forms such as language, music, art,
and ritual. In this, one moves from I-It of engagement with the symbol to I-Thou, a
deeper and mutual relation. There are ‘signs’ of ‘becoming aware’. A sign is an
indication that doesn’t speak to everybody but just to the one who sees that it ‘says’
something to him. That way, the communication goes beyond one’s senses. By
observing the signs, one becomes open to be present and willing to see each event
as unique and unexpected.

Man: Is that personal sign not indicative of a mental illness? Psychosis?

MB: Psychosis and other forms of mental illnesses would occur when one has lost
touch with the reality and the self. On the contrary, in entering into a relation with
God, one is much more aware of one’s self, one’s evil nature, and is willing and
directed to turn it into a greater good for society.

Man: I understand now.

MB: Remember, “A person cannot approach the divine reaching beyond the human.
To become human is what that individual person has been created for.”

….nnnnnn...(a bird noise in the window plane, awakes Manjiri)

Man: (reorienting herself to the reality)...was it really a dream?

(Manjiri gets up, prepares the tea for herself and reflects over the dream conversation with
Martin Buber)