[Hassan Ilyas] As you were now teaching

in Mizan

the chapter on morality

and you were telling that Allah ta'la

has, in man's nature

given that consciousness

with which he can discern

One big defect

one big problem

which humans have in their personality

in fact they say that in present times

it is more prevalent and spread out

because of the kind of

problems that have cropped up

This anger

which develops in the

personality of humans

A reaction to a situation

an irritation

agitation

a person makes sharp remarks

He expresses strong reactions

About this matter

the psychological experts

also tell us something

Some motivational speakers

They also tell things about it

What I want to know is that

because you have spend

your life in the society

you have interacted with the public

People have criticized you

They do it even today

Please tell me your own experience

Your personal experience

that the state of anger

within man

this reaction is borne

To bring it within the bounds of civility

To control it

For this what are your

own personal experiences?

[Ghamidi] The first fundamental thing

that you must understand is that

anger

or reaction

or emotional exuberance

It is not a bad thing

In itself,

it is a great blessing

that mankind has received

Through this man preserves

his own self

his chararcter

his conduct

his environment

and I will add that

he even protects his dignity

This very thing

gives man the virtue of his ego

which is the source of self-respect

That is the feeling of self-respect

and the spirit of respect is
born from this

A man's zeal for truth is also

manifested through this

That is I understand a thing to be correct

It could be a moral thing

It could also be a doctrine

So I'm connected to it with a passion

It is not a bad thing in its being

But

when it manifests itself

and its manifestation

it is obvious that it will

be directed toward others

At that moment

it becomes the cause of wrong

That is

in its potential

or you can say potentially

It is a commendable thing

It should

after taking birth in your own being

it should remain there

[Hassan] Oh! Excellent!

[Ghamidi] That is

the thing that takes birth within you

It is in itself

the internal manifestation

of your personality

Just ike Allama Iqbal has said

"To burn in the fire of our own blood

is the name of youth!

Strive, and in strife make
honey of life’s gall"

So in the fire of one's own blood

one should learn to burn.

These things within you

help in building your own self

They enhance your personality

They give birth to the feeling

of self-respect within you

That is the stages that

man has to go through

The schemes that come before you

The desires that draw you towards them

So this spirit of self-respect

and sense which is there

so that what takes birth internally

and produce a special kind

of anger or vehemence

If you look closely

and if you analyze it

then it is actually protecting you

on all those occasions

It becomes a moral issue

when instead of absorbing it internally

instead of keeping the fire

within ourselves

we direct it toward others

So I experienced it myself in my youth

about myself

That I

used to feel vehemence and passion

toward others
One of my

very old friends

Dr. Sajid Ali sahib

I call him my close friend

He also wrote this in the past days

So this thing

is present in every human being

that is especially

like we say in our youth

'He was a fiery youth'

Then you realize

that

"No"

It is limited to the internal

It should not cross to the external

Its appearance

towards wife

towards children

toward friends

towards the people you meet

toward your opponents

toward your critics

It should not be towards them

It is that thing

which is like a smoldering wood

It is that

it should not become a bonfire

cheezt hayaat-e dawaam

sokhtan-e na tawaam

so it is sokhtan-e tawaam in fact

Which is like

to burn without fire

to smolder

So in the same way

it should be held back within you

it should be controlled

One should drink it down

This is what

if you look in Quran-e-Majeed

It offers a beautiful interpretation

kaazimeen-al gais

So it did not say that

that gais

or the anger

or the passion

or the vehemence

that they kill these emotions

No they swallow it

They control it

Therefore in our society

the status of being a keyword

is given to 'taqvaa'

What is 'taqvaa'?

it is within you

the things that Allah ta'la

has given birth to

They should be

just like there is a foaming ocean

so you should make up its shore

you should make a sea-shore

or if there is a running
river that is flooded

then you should make embankments

This is 'taqvaa'

So the moment when you

develop this thing within you

Then slowly and steadily

You develop such control

that it is no longer manifested externally

I rememeber

the elders from whom

I have learned the etiquette of life

Among them Maulana Syed

Abul A'la Maududi's personality

is the most extraordinary

and he has influenced me in many ways

Alhamdulillah

So one time

people asked him

that people do critiques on you

label accusations on you

But you never reply

'So does this not affect you at all?'

That is

You did not reply

You did not give any reaction

You did not take anyone's critique

as a provocation

So this is against the

reading of human nature

That is because one will

definitely get angry
A person will revolt

against the kind of misdemeanor

being done against him

so if you don't respond

then does it not affect you at all?

Does it not affect your health

So he said that

my health that you see

Its reason is this

[Hassan] I see

[Ghamidi] That when you

contain this fire within you

Then it does not burn anyone

But it burns you internally

this is a hint about

that how a man should refine oneself

So the act of refining oneself

How must it be done?

Because this is your question

In my life I have found

only one answer to this

And that is

immense self-introspection

Refuse to make allowances for yourself

That is the moment when we do a mistake

then within us

Allah ta'la has kept a monitor

It tells you immediately

And even if you don't hear it

at that moment

when you go and sit at home

it will tell you

So I remember very well

that when in youth

when you demonstrate anger

at someone you are meeting

expressed anger at some critic

or showed anger at someone

insisting on a foolish thing

or at a friend

or at someone in home

demonstrated it at mother or father

After that a wave of regret comes over man

It comes for sure

this is the monitor within man

Now you don't have to suppress that voice

That is at that time

what does a man do?

He tries to justify it

that 'no it was the right occasion for it'

'this man deserved it'

'it was only right to give

this reply to father'

'mother said such a thing after all'

So at that moment

you make allowances for yourself

This practice should actually be stopped

From the first day

you must decide that 'No'

Whenever my conscience will tell me

when my heart will give evidence that

I have not done right

That I did not speak the right words

That I raised my voice

I blamed another person in retaliation

Then this is a mistake

from which I have to clean myself

This is what is called purification

So this act of purifying oneself

does not happen in one day

it does not happen in two days

If you want to do it the natural way

then it takes years

And when you do it successively

every day

then there comes a time

when people are surprised

that how did this man become so?

How did he become so?

So you should also pray to Allah

The biggest thing is

Allah's kindness

and his favor

But Alllah ta'la's kindness and favour

If you make your resolve

and struggle for it

then He will reward you for it

[Hassan] Okay, Ghamidi Sir

Two more aspects

in this relation that I want you

to discuss some more

One thing is that

It is said that when
you demonstrate anger

then it leads to catharsis

which is an expression of what was

inside you

you have expressed your mind

and you feel relaxed

What is your experience

that when a man expresses anger

then more than its external effects

Does it affect

his own cognitive skills

his creative thinking

his analytical intelligence that is there

or his personality

Does it affect that too?

Or does it affect only externally

when a person is angry

[Ghamidi] When he acts like this

toward others

then the worst effect is on him

[Hassan] Okay, how is that?

[Ghamidi] His own personality is ruined

That is the conscience that is within man

it reproaches him

and one knows that

in such a situation

neither your words were in your control

nor your tongue was in your control

Neither did you adopt the

attitude of respect for others
So it is obvious that

at every step

it begets the feeling of malice

and the feeling of malice

becomes the medium for destruction

of human psyche

So essentialy it will happen so

when you act like this with others

I have said

that if you make it the medium

of your internal state

Then its effects are very positive

That is as soon as you

change its direction

towards your being

you

I remember this one time

A very interesting incidence occured

You might know that

among my elders

Miya Tufail Muhammad sahib also

have been one of my prominent elders

With him as well

I had a very affectionate relationship

He was in a congregation

As far as I remember

It was probably in Sheikhupura

There

there were about ten,

twenty or fifty people

and among them one sahib

As it often happens

that you are critiquing

or drawing attention to a mistake

then this very anger

(which is the matter of our

discussion right now)

It overpowers you

so the person got up

and started blabbering his critique

and now

instead of Miya sahib responding

to his critique

he asked him to sit down

but he did not sit down

Then he said the Prophet Muhammad (saw)

has commanded us

so sit down

Anyway that man was a bit startled

and sat down

and then said where did He say so?

and then he recited that Hadith

So as you can see

when a man gets angry

the first thing that should be done

is that you must change your

position

the change in position

becomes the basis of alerting you

Many elders gave us this advice

during the time of our youth

that the moment

you get angry at someone

and you are sitting somwhere

then you should start walking

So what is this thing in actual?

It is the same thing

as when you are in a particular state

at that time

You must put that state

like a current of elctricity

In actual

your entire existence is bound within it

You must break it for a while

As it has been said

that drink water

As the old people say

you've gotten angry

as you might have seen sometimes

that the mother says

and your father also says

that you must cool down

Drink water

So its purpose is also this

that your rage

which inside you at this time has become

a current of electricity

its succession should be stopped

So that you think upon it

When your anger is directed toward others

then at that time

you enter a very dangerous field

Because you must have heard this

In Arabic literature too

there is a very nice proverb

that the wounds of a sword can go away

but not of the tongue

So you are inflicting

the wound of the tongue

That is because when you will get angry

so above all your words

Prophet Muhammad (saw) has also said

that on judgment day

you will be caught mostly

because of your words

Because lies come out of this mouth

wrong things come out of this mouth

In anger you don't see at all

that what you are doing?

You must have seen that

in your personal life

in your societal life

Our respected leaders

that is when they

get angry against their opponents

then they don't see

what they are saying?

and after that they suffer

especially in politics

I have seen this

during the past forty or fifty years

that there is such a law of God

that whatever wrong you have

said about your opponent

The act of nature's retribution

brings you to that state

where the same happens with you

and its reason is probably that

you are stationed as the

leader of a nation

And for leaders

there is retribution in this very world

[Hassan] Okay

[Ghamidi] That is others

might come under scrutiny during

judgment day

But God does not forgive leaders

It is because they are stationed

as the guides of nations

This I'm talking from my experience

that is whatever I have seen

and whatever I have read in

the history of the world

Mostly it happens so

that the consequences are close at hand

and you have to go through everything

that you have said about others

that you have done to others

Therefore, it is a very important thing

that we must tell

our children

our family memebers

and our future generations as well

that within man this is a very big thing

Anger
it becomes the means of dignity

it becomes the means to

guarding one's self

It becomes the means to protect

oneself from evil

It begets within you the strength

to face your desires

It is a great blessing

But it should be directed

towards your inner self

It should be not be directed toward others

[Hassan] Okay Ghamidi Sir

you told us a very good thing

And Prophet Muhammad (saw) has

also instructed that

Guarantee what is between two lips

I will guarantee you heaven

You also made a point that

and the advice is in the Hadith as well

and experience also tells us this

that you must change your state

So it leads to some kind of realization

If you are sitting then you can

walk out of the room

But when sometime you

are angry at your wife

and if you walk out of the room

to suppress the anger

then she will however get angry with this

that why did you leave the room?

Then it becomes counterproductive

so if you have any personal

experience of such sort

Do tell
[Ghamidi] No, all thanks to Allah ta'la

that in my personal life

I had no such experience

But I request you

that

the greatest test

that presents itself to you

It actually presents itself

when you are with your wife

and for wife it presents

itself with her husband

because with other people

in the rest of the world

the nature of your dealings

is only of sometimes

or many intervals come between them

They work in the office

They are in the market

or wherever they are

Then the nature of dealings

is not the same

Here however

day, night

sleeping, waking

eating, drinking

making the decisions of your life

to make an opinion about

the life of children

In the same way, making ends

meet

and its different stages

at every level
disagreements arise

and this is the biggest test as well

and for this reason

Prophet Muhammad (saw) said

that during judgment day

those people will be the most close to me

who are good to their family

To be good to one's family

is not an easy thing

that is in the matter of kids

Kids also trouble you

When they grow old

they will disagree with you

they will give their own opinions

It could be that they do not

fulfill your expectations

Whatever you have planned for them

sometimes that becomes an issue for you

So all of these things that are there

They are the biggest

test for a human being

That is because

in my opinion

that when a man

gets to know that

the time for my marriage is near

then people however

do preparation for a lot of other things

The biggest preparation

should be done for this
That I'm going to enter such a test

in which at every step

there will be issues

You must have seen that

people end up ruining their lives

How children end up

when there are divorces

and other such kind of issues

That is in our society

At least

you marry by seeing

each other's faces, right?

So what is that thing

that later becomes cause of issues

It is largely your nature

your character

your morals

your issues are precisely these, right?

So in this if you decide

that I have to succeed in this test

Because it is that test

in which failure

in actual will

become my last failure

Otherwise I have seen at many places

Many people I saw in my life

they would be very polite

they would be very modest

they will do much religious talk

What voice!
What grandeur!

But as soon as they enter their home

one gets to know

that the beast within comes out

I have seen it many times in my life

So what is its reason?

Its reason is also this

that for in the actual field of test

we have not prepared for it

and a man must be extremely

prepared for this

Above all

in this matter only

they should try

Although I will say that

marriage

although people's marriage

takes place quite late

our times were different

So if your marriage

has taken place at the age of twenty

or twenty-five years

Then you can prepare yourself

as much you want

but you cannot be

That is most of the preparation

that you have to do is after that

You can prepare as much you want

That stage is such

It is the time of youth

There is passion in your blood

Your feelings are also rising high

You also have the feeling of superiority

So all of these things

no matter how much you refine them

some defects remain

some weaknesses remain

So afterwards as well

you must decide

and then the biggest thing

that I have witnessed in

my most illustrious teacher

Maulana Amin Ahsan Islahi

In him

he was very short-tempered

[Hassan] Okay

[Ghamidi] And sometimes when

he used to get angry

I have myself written about him

that his issue was merely this

that his love was as profound

as was his hatred

Both the things were at their extreme

He used to love with great passion

And when he felt bad about something

then his reaction to it

also used to be at the extreme level

But he developed a wonderful

quality within himself

And that quality was this

that when he was not in that state anymore

so regardless of what their age was

It is obvious that

I have in the first meeting

that I had with him

in 1973

When I saw him for the first time

At that time he was of seventy

years of age

So I have seen him in the

last stage of his life

So without considering

that what their age was

what is their status

Which level of knowledge

they have acquired?

He just used to join

hands even before a kid

[Hassan] I see

[Ghamidi] It is obvious that

through this gesture

a person asks apology from another

In our society

it is so

that once I saw

that one of my friends

was teaching her child

that, son, you should say sorry

The child had so much ego

that he said you can make me

do anything else but I won't do this

This question does not arise at all

This is not easy

Because within you

the feelings that develop

the vehemence and force within you

The biggest cause of its appearance

is after all your ego

so asking for forgiveness

it is not an easy thing

So I saw that

this thing which is there

for him

it became the basis for his purification

He used to purify himself

He got angry

he expressed it

After that

he joined hands

and asked for forgiveness

One time I was with him in the village

He was stationed in Rahmanabad

So we left our home

I was also with him

and the plan was to

go and read namaz in the Masjid

So as soon as we stepped out into the lane

so one grandmother

old

just like village woman

she was carrying her buffalo

you know that a buffalo

is a buffalo

the buffalo swished its tale

so the mud was all over Maulana's clothes

It is obvious that

the kind of temper he has

he got very angry

and he said everything

that came into his mind

After that

he got quiet

we were not talking anymore

In the same condition

we went and read the namaz

and came back

he was in so much anger that

even I couldn't dare talk to him

when he came back

I thought that we will go back to the

drawing room where we were sitting

He directly went to the grandmother

sat down on his knees

and asked her to forgive him

[Hassan] Allahu Akbar

[Ghamidi] So this thing that is

I saw it in him

I saw it in practice

and as I'm telling you

that I saw it in that age

during that time

when the people of

the village used to think

that there is a wali of Allah

who is living amidst us

and the grandmother was in tears

that what are you doing?

you are like our father

How does it matter if you said it?

It was my fault

That I was passing through there

and there was mud

and things were such

This is my view

are the two stages of refining oneself

That is

one is that

you can

make yourself so disciplined

that it does not manifest itself at all

and if it manifests itself

then you must purify yourself

and what is purification?

That is the purification for namaz

is to cleanse oneself

Its purification is this

[Hassan] To apologize

[Ghamidi] Repentence, apology

Istighfar

You must ask for forgiveness from your God

as well as from his people

and it should not be made

an issue of the ego

Be it wife,

children,
old or young

you should join your hands before them

because this matter should

be cleared here itself

And this thing will take you

to a great extent

towards purity in your life

[Hassan] Ghamidi Sir

right now you told us

that Prophet Muhammad (saw)'s life

It is an obvious thing

that for us Muslims

He is a role model

uswa e hasna

His every work,

every act

But when a man gets angry

than he

for two minutes

in his mind believes that

the situation which has

presented itself to me

the kind of environment that

Allah's prophet was in

that is in Medinah

So all his admirers

all those who are ready to

sacrifice everything for him

So this situation perhaps

at that time

may not be there

around him
that there is leg pulling,

there is plotting

or someone is conspiring
behind someone's back

That was an environment of

pure souls

The situation today that is before me

then in that

there may be at least something

which is justified

So how do I adjust his role model here?

Then were there

any such crisis in his life as well?

[Ghamidi] No my brother

there have been many sensitive stages

You can read Quran-e-Majeed

You can see the events in his life (pbuh)

that is whatever Prophet Muhammad (saw)

has faced in Mecca

from his dear ones

his relatives

even from his friends on some occasions

That is also no less

Some of the friends

there are those people with whom

during the time of jahiliya

He had relationships and

connections with them

After that when He came to Medina

So you will see that

His own household was made a

target

Quran-e-Majeed mentions the

sufferings inflicted on Him

The subject of the entire Surah

Ahzab is this

His home

His family

His relatives

All of them were made targets

Accusations were made

All of these matters happened

that it is during those eight to ten years

in which as we know

that an entire world is up against Him

Everything that the Jews

and the polytheists did

Quran-e-Majeed has told about

it in great detail

At many places

we have this explanation

that you are inflicting

the same sufferings

the kind that were inflicted on Moses

'yuzun-an nabi[

and you are inflicting suffering

on the prophet

you are inflicting suffering

on God's messenger

So all of this happened

But I have seen that

with Prophet Muhammad (saw)

the biggest manifestation that happens

It is
to keep quiet

[Hassan] Okay

so this is the manifestation

of your extreme anger

which He is feeling inside

[Ghamidi] Although that occasion

in which Sahabha says that He

led the namaz

and it is obvious that

it was in his mind (pbuh)

that something grave happened

so it was the namaz of zuhr

probably

As much as I can remember

It was some namaz which had four Rakat

after reciting two Rakat

He turned to so salaam

and in a nearby mosque

there was some place

where He went and sat there

so the pain of anger was reflected

such on His face

that the illustrious Sahaba did not dare

to go near Him

But its manifestation was

not for anyone else

[Hassan] But for Himself

when His attention was drawn

and the one who drew attention

made a wonderful remark

that Ya Rasulallah
did you forget

or was the namaz shortened?

It is obvious

that it was possibility there

that while reading the namaz

this favor was made

So the response that He gave

that it is reported in Muwatta

qullu zalika lam yakun

"Nothing happened"

[Hasan] Okay

[Ghamidi] In a lot of anger

So then people drew His attention

then He got up and read

the two Rakat again

and did the sajda-e sahw

and in this way people

were educated as to

what they should do

So there were situations of anger

And on some occasions

it has also happened that

while giving Dawah or making a speech

He had expressed it

but that expression did not happen

in a manner

that someone was particularly targeted

In that you have to see that

the condition has been such

that on some occasion

if such matter arose with someone

that is according to someone's feelings

so He lifted the clothe from His waist

and asked to take revenge

take qisas from me

[Hassan] Praise be to God

Ghamidi Sir

with great detail

and very beautifully

you spoke in relation to anger

A last question

related to anger

What are the things that make you angry?

Anger is obviously a natural thing

everyone feels it

I merely want to know this

in order to know

that what are those factors

those things

which are apparent

maybe after listening to them

in our lives

we will refine them

or for the people who are listening

if there could be any room for improvement

As it happens in life sometimes

that if you give some people

a cold cup of tea

they get angry quickly

Similarly some people

have many such issues

if there is no food at the time

of eating, then they get angry

What makes you

in other people's lives

those who are around you

your students, friends

What things do you see in them

which makes you angry

from inside even though you don't express

we are its witness

so what are those things?

[Ghamidi] When I felt angry

I felt angry at everything

Now that I have disciplined myself

so now I feel it only sometimes

Mostly it happens so

that those who are your very dear students

from whom you have great expectations

and you feel that you have spent

your entire life on them

When you realize that

the things that you have taught them

there is still weakness in that

Then it becomes a little hard to control

But in totality

to a great extent

Now I have controlled myself a lot

I can only say that

at first you used to laugh at

the state of your heart

and now nothing makes you laugh