“Stem Cells” for Dummies, and Other Stories

Transcribed by Abril Meza Galindo April 17, 2021

~Introduction~
[theme song]
Alex Nguyen (host):
Good morning folks, and welcome back to the The More You Know podcast!
Celeste Stevens (host):
Yeah, hope you guys had an amazing and refreshing weekend!
Also, we wanted to thank you guys for the huge support you guys showed on our last episode.
Who would’ve known we’d have such a good time talking about all those scandals throughout
history!
[laughter]
Alex Nguyen:
Well, I saw it coming! We always have such a good time with these incredible guests, which
reminds me…
[dramatic pause]
that we have a very very special guest today. Please welcome my good friend--the one and
only--Dr. Miranda Balmer!
[applause]
Miranda Balmer (Stem Cell Researcher):
Hello everyone
[laugh]
Thank you for having me here today.
Celeste Stevens:
Of course! How could we not? This guy over here [points at Alex] has been keeping your genius
a secret and I couldn’t let him do that.
Alex Nguyen:
No no no you got it wrong. I’ve been wanting Dr. Balmer to come for the past 3 years. It just so
happens that she is always too busy working on groundbreaking research, receiving accolades
and whatnot!
Celeste Stevens:
Anyway, we are here now with the award-winning Dr. Miranda Balmer, a pioneer in stem cell
research in single cells. She has come today to talk to us about “stem cells”, why they matter,
and what she has to say about the experimentation process.
Dr. Balmer, please let us know a bit more about yourself and what you want to discuss here
today.
Miranda Balmer:
Well, I’m Dr. Balmer and I have Bachelor’s degrees in Biology and Bioengineering, as well as a
PhD in Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative Medicine.
For the past decade, I have specialized in single stem cell experiments used to determine the
genetic variations caused in different environments.
I deviated from my career in experimental research in order to focus on publishing papers
discussing a few factors that are detrimental to the field of stem cell research.
I’d like to discuss a few factors today!
You know, just trying to make “stem cell research” seem a bit less scary and, hopefully, more
interesting to you all.
[nods all around]

~Why Do Stem Cells Matter?~

Alex Nguyen:
Well, to start, why don’t you tell us the purpose of a “stem cell”? I’ve certainly heard it mentioned
in the news and in shows like Grey’s Anatomy, but I never really hear any explanations or
detailed accounts of what’s happening...
So, what makes stem cells so revolutionary to the Average Joe?
Miranda Balmer:
While you might not hear much about “stem cells” themselves, I’m sure many of you are familiar
with diabetes, heart diseases, Parkinson’s, arthritis, spinal injuries, burns, etc. Stem cells are
“totipotent”, meaning that they have the capacity to develop into any type of cell in the body.
Because of this ability, stem cells are a very effective way to treat many diseases.
Celeste Stevens:
Do any examples come to mind?
Miranda Balmer:
A very common and perfected treatment is a marrow transplant. Many people with leukemia,
anemia, or some other form of aggressive disease undergo this procedure. The procedure
entails extracting bone marrow from one patient and transferring it to another. What’s special
about the bone marrow is that it contains stem cells within it, allowing the bone marrow
transplant to occur more efficiently. Since the stem cells within are not fully developed, it can
easily adapt and grow into the new body. It won’t be rejected as easily and incidents are very
rare for this treatment.
Celeste Stevens:
That’s very impressive!
Miranda Balmer:
Yes, and stem cells can be very diverse, and thus can be used in any part of the body. They can
be used to make a liver regenerate, to construct skin for a burn victim, or to repair the spinal
cord after a deathly accident.
They are used in cosmetic surgeries, too, to make the skin seamless and to prevent scarring.
Additionally, they can also be experimented on to research reasons for genetic defects, to
investigate how diseases and cancers develop, and to test new drugs for safety and
effectiveness.
Alex Nguyen:
Yeah, actually!… ummm wait sorry
[chuckles]
[papers turning]
I read something published by Mikael Brown about how stem cells have been used in the
medical field.
If you guys
[gestures at camera]
didn’t know, stem cells have been used to make new hearts, flaps of skin, cartilage structure etc!
I was particularly interested in the flap of skin issue. I know it sounds kind of odd but bear with
me.
[laugh]
I learned that these flaps of skin have been quite useful for cases in which babies need surgery
but their skins are too fragile to handle the whole thing!
Miranda Balmer:
Yes, in that case, the stem cells would develop in a lab to make a flap of skin, which is then
attached to the baby. Since they’re stem cells, they are easily molded into the baby’s natural
skin.
Celeste Stevens:
So you’re saying that they grow new cells in a laboratory in order to replace damaged organs or
tissues.
Miranda Balmer:
Yes, and in order to correct parts of organs that don’t work properly! This is often the treatment
for people with unusual conditions and genetic diseases that cause bodily malfunctions.

~What is a Stem Cell?~

Alex Nguyen:
That is very good to know! Now, why don’t we talk a bit more about what a “stem cell” is? We
know it’s a miracle worker, but we don't know what makes it so.
Celeste Stevens:
Could you give us the basic definition of a stem cell?
Miranda Balmer:
Of course, a stem cell is that which can both renew itself and differentiate into different types of
cells.
You see, stem cells are a very recent development but they have incredible potential. Stem cells
themselves are just tiny little individual cells taken from a body and then either inserted into a
subject of the same species, or an environment resembling it .
From there, they use “renewal” by making exact copies of themselves and multiplying. They are
also capable of “differentiating” by changing, iteration after iteration, into tiny workers with more
specific jobs to do in the body.
Celeste Stevens:
So, what is the exact difference between these two processes? Why do we need both?
Miranda Balmer:
The thing is, cells that renew are those that make exact copies of themselves.
Celeste Stevens:
So, can I imagine it as a dog having a puppy that looks the same?
Miranda Balmer:
Yeah, exactly!
In that scenario, cells that differentiate would be like a german shepherd having a few golden
retrievers and huskies. And then the huskies would have corgis, chihuahuas, and poodles.
Alex Nguyen:
I mean, I have nothing against having a whole town’s worth of doggos but why do all those
varieties matter?
Miranda Balmer:
Well, you know how we have different cells in our body? We have white cells, red cells,
photosynthetic cells, nerve cells, muscle cells, ...yada yada and so on. We need those to
survive, so it’s very helpful to have single stem cells just evolve into this whole variety of cells!
Also, that makes them especially more helpful because we can use them in different contexts
and for different needs (as we discussed previously).

~What’s the Issue with Stem Cell Research?~

Celeste Stevens:
Okay, you’ve just informed us about the very basic essence of a stem cell.
You also said that a stem cell is collected from a species and then injected into another subject,
or into something resembling a living creature, right?
Miranda Balmer:
Correct, yes.
Celeste Stevens:
So…
[laugh]
I am quite intrigued by the whole experimental process, given how capable these little guys are!
This was your job for a while, but you decided to head into the more study and academic
research oriented path. Why?
Alex Nguyen:
Have you fallen out of love with experimental research?
Miranda Balmer:
[laugh]
Absolutely not. I am still in love with it!
It’s just that I started noticing some inconsistencies and ... some more theoretical issues with the
whole research process when it came to researching stem cells, specifically.
So, I basically backed off single stem cell research about … 7 years ago? I went on to do other
styles of stem cell research, but the contradictions in single stem cell research stuck with me. I
think these inconsistencies are worth talking about and more people should be made aware.
Celeste Stevens:
And that’s the reason you’re writing about these issues.
Miranda Balmer:
Exactly! Someone had to talk about this issue ‘cause it was driving me nuts.
[laughter]
Alex Nguyen:
So, what are some of the issues that pushed you to start publishing all these papers?
Miranda Balmer:
[...]
Hmmm.... I’m finding a good way of explaining without having to go into what everything is.
Alex Nguyen:
It’s okay, take your time.
It took me 3 entire days to read a single one of your 23 page papers.
Celeste Stevens:
The grind you went through is commendable.
[laughter]
Miranda Balmer:
I agree! I struggle, too, sometimes!
But my biggest issue with experimental research on single stem cells is the way we tackle
differentiation and renewal.
To reiterate:
We previously defined a stem cell as a single cell that is the origin of all renewed cells.
Renewed cells are those that were born as replicas, out of that single cell we began with (the
stem cell).
A stem cell must also be able to differentiate, meaning that its multiple offspring can also look
completely different.
A stem cell’s children must also be able to replicate exact copies of themselves (renewal) or
have slightly different copies (differentiation).
This means that, generation after generation of cells being born, the stem cell’s offspring have
the ability to have identical twin children, but also to have children that look increasingly different
in order to fit different jobs in the body.
Alex Nguyen:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Celeste Stevens:
Mhm.
[nods]
Miranda Balmer:
The thing is, in single stem cell research, we often try to learn more about single stem cells by
measuring things such as how much they differentiate or renew in a period of time.
We go into the experiment assuming this is a stem cell, and then try to find the rate of
differentiation and renewal, basically.
Celeste Stevens:
Yeah, yeah.
Miranda Balmer:
But the contradiction is that a stem cell is defined by whether it has the ability to differentiate and
renew itself--the very two things we are studying.
We go into the experiment assuming that this is a stem cell, because we see that there are
offspring that are renewing and differentiating.
The thing is, we don’t know “who” is causing these renewals and differentiations. It could be the
“stem cell” or its “children”, and we have no way of knowing who did it because we are only
capable of observing the final product.
We don’t know whether this is a stem cell, to begin with.
Alex Nguyen:
How are you doing stem cell research if you’re not sure if it’s a stem cell?
Miranda Balmer:
That’s the thing, yeah. We go forward while assuming they are stem cells because we see that
someone differentiated and renewed, but we’re not sure if it was the cell we are studying.
Celeste Stevens:
Is there a way of, I don’t know, calculating something or inspecting it to make sure it’s a stem
cell?
Miranda Balmer:
Unfortunately, no. We are at the beginning stages of this stem cell phenomenon, so we don’t
have anything to go off of.
We are creating these parameters for future reference.
We are using “stem cells” and setting standards for what they should act and look like in an
environment, even though we can’t tell 100% if this is really a stem cell.
Celeste Stevens:
Then, how do we know these scientists are correct? How can you trust the process?
Miranda Balmer:
To be fair, every field of science has started with assumptions and a leap of fate. That’s why
science, math and technology is ever-changing. We keep improving it based on what we learn.
Someone invented calculus and the manipulation of chemical reactions at some point, based on
how they saw patterns and relationships between numbers and factors in whatever system they
are studying. We are doing the same, but for the field of stem cell research.
Alex Nguyen:
That’s incredible. I’m not very sure what to say, since I obviously know no more than the
scientists -- the pioneers -- embarking on this journey.
Celeste Stevens:
Me too.
[...]
Quite frankly, I’m now doubting everything, ever. I’ll think about it later tonight so thanks a lot.
[laughter]
However, I was wondering what’s next for you, Dr. Balmer?

~What’s Next?~
Miranda Balmer:
Right now, there is still a lot I want to discuss with my peers. There’s a lot to investigate and put
out into the public through papers and such.
So … for now, that is my focus. But stem cell research is my true love in life
[laugh]
So I don’t think I’ll be able to stay fully away. I will go back to experimenting once we have more
answers. Once more researchers are aware of this fallacy so we can discuss it and come up
with a plan.
Alex Nguyen:
What kind of plan would it be?
Miranda Balmer:
It’d have to be a new method of experimenting. One that doesn't contradict itself. Or one in
which we must accept the assumption and find a way of reducing the probability of the model
failing.
Celeste Stevens:
That sounds like a good plan.
Alex Nguyen:
If anyone can do it, it’s you and that amazing group of peers you’ve assembled.
Celeste Stevens:
Get back to us once you’ve come up with something, and we’ll be excited to let the rest of the
world know!
Miranda Balmer:
[laugh]
Yeah, they’re quite formidable.
And I’ll gladly get back to you once we’ve accomplished our main goal, yes!
Thank you for having me, guys.
Alex Nguyen:
Our pleasure, come back anytime! Thank you for coming, Dr. Balmer!
Celeste Stevens:
And thank you to our listeners for coming back and for giving us all this overwhelming support.
It’s always a treat to hear your feedback, so make sure to comment your thoughts on this week’s
podcast!
Alex Nguyen:
And if you’d like to hear more from us, make sure to subscribe to the The More You Know
podcast. A special thank you to all our listeners on patreon, too!
Have a beautiful, marvelous rest of the week, you guys!
Celeste Stevens:
Thank you!
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Alex Nguyen
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Celeste Stevens
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