“Stem Cells” for Dummies, and Other Stories

Transcribed by Abril Meza Galindo April 17, 2021

~Introduction~
[theme song]
Alex Nguyen (host):
Good morning folks, and welcome back to the The More You Know podcast!
Celeste Stevens (host):
Yeah, hope you guys had an amazing and refreshing weekend!
Also, we wanted to thank you guys for the huge support you guys showed on our
last episode. Who would’ve known we’d have such a good time talking about all
those scandals throughout history!
[laughter]
Alex Nguyen:
Well, I saw it coming! We always have such a good time with these incredible
guests, which reminds me…
[dramatic pause]
that we have a very very special guest today. Please welcome my good
friend--the one and only--Dr. Miranda Balmer!
[applause]
Miranda Balmer (Stem Cell Researcher):
Hi, hi
[laugh]
Thank you for having me here today.
Celeste Stevens:
Of course! How could we not? This guy over here [points at Alex] has been
keeping your genius a secret and I couldn’t let him do that.
Alex Nguyen:
No no no you got it wrong. I’ve been wanting Dr. Balmer to come for the past 3
years. It just so happens that she is always too busy working on groundbreaking
research, winning Nobel prizes and whatnot!
Celeste Stevens:
Anyway, we are here now with the award-winning Dr. Miranda Balmer, a pioneer
in stem cell research in single cells. She has come today to talk to us about what
“stem cell” research is, why it matters, and how she has contributed to this very
foreign field.
Dr. Balmer, please let us know a bit more about yourself and what you want to
discuss today.
Miranda Balmer:
Well, I’m Dr. Balmer and I have a Bachelor’s degree in Biology, a Bachelor’s
degree in Bioengineering, and a PhD in Stem Cell Biology and Regenerative
Medicine.
For the past 5 years, I have specialized in single stem cell experiments used to
determine the genetic variations caused in different environments.
I have recently deviated from my career in experimental research in order to
focus on publishing papers discussing what factors are detrimental to the
progress we’ve made thus far in stem cell research.
There are a few factors that have made me take a step back and I wanted to
discuss a few of these today! You know, just trying to make the phrase “stem cell
cell research” seem a bit more approachable and, hopefully, interesting to all of
you.
[nods all around]

~What is a Stem Cell?~

Alex Nguyen:
Well, to start, why don’t you tell us what a “stem cell” is?
Miranda Balmer:
A stem cell is that which can both renew itself and differentiate into different types
of cells.
You see, stem cells are a very recent development but they have incredible
potential. Stem cells themselves are just tiny little individual cells taken from a
body and then either inserted into an animal of the same species, or an
environment resembling it .
From there, they use “renewal” by making exact copies of themselves and
multiplying. They are also capable of “differentiating” by changing, iteration after
iteration, into tiny workers with more specific jobs to do in the body.
Celeste Stevens:
So, what is the exact difference between these two processes? Why do we need
both?
Miranda Balmer:
The thing is, cells that renew are those that make exact copies of themselves.
Celeste Stevens:
So, can I imagine it as a dog having a puppy that looks the same?
Miranda Balmer:
Yeah, exactly!
In that scenario, cells that differentiate would be like a german shepherd having a
few golden retrievers and huskies. And then the huskies would have corgis,
chihuahuas, and poodles.
Alex Nguyen:
I mean, I have nothing against having a whole town’s worth of doggos but why do
all those varieties matter?
Miranda Balmer:
Well, you know how we have different cells in our body? We have white cells, red
cells, photosynthetic cells, nerve cells, muscle cells, ...yada yada and so on. We
need those to survive, so it’s very helpful to have single stem cells just evolve
into this whole variety of cells!
Also, that makes them specially more helpful because we can use them in
different situations.
~What are they used for?~
Alex Nguyen:
Yeah, actually!… ummm wait sorry
[chuckles]
[papers turning]
I read something published by Mikael Brown about how stem cells have been
used in the medical field.
If you guys
[gestures at camera]
didn’t know, stem cells have been used to make new hearts, flaps of skin,
cartilage structure etc! I was particularly interested in the flap of skin issue. I
know it sounds kind of odd but bare with me.
[laugh]
I learned that these flaps of skin have been quite useful for cases in which babies
need surgery but don’t their skins are too fragile to handle the whole thing!
Miranda Balmer:
Yeah, the whole thing is very interesting, actually. One of my college friends
went to Germany to work on that and she’s doing amazing!
Celeste Stevens:
Is that something you liked to do a lot of research on? What did you like to focus
on the most?
Miranda Balmer:
Oh, well, I’ve always found the research part more interesting!
Even when I was working almost exclusively on experiments, I was more
interested in the results and how I can make my technique better. Like making
sense of the results and figuring out how all these factors could be tinkered with
in order to make the product better for its recipient.
I don’t think I had a favorite type of stem cell to work on, but I’d say I was best
when it came to working on small mammals and certain organs of the human
body.
Alex Nguyen:
Why so?
Miranda Balmer:
Hmmmm
[...]
I think simply because there is more funding for these kinds of projects.
The only people funding big stem cell research projects tend to be those who
want us to develop stem cells to make usable hearts and livers and skin for
patients in need of them.
Alex Nguyen:
What about the animals?
Miranda Balmer:
The animals, too, are more well-funded since it’s not as controversial for people
to support. So… we get more subjects to work with and we also don’t get as
much pressure by big corporations who hover.
Celeste Stevens:
I see, it makes sense that you’d prefer more expansive research with people who
give you more resources and time to work everything out!
[laughter]
Miranda Balmer:
Of course! Every single one of my research experiences has been wonderful one
way or another, but those types that I mentioned were very special. I think the
results are always more rewarding when they’re thorough and done with a lot of
precision.
Especially when you have the right group assembled to conduct the research!
~How do you do Stem Cell research?~
Celeste Stevens:
Now, I know you told us earlier about how Stem Cell Research is done.
You said that a stem cell is collected from a species and then injected into
another subject, or into something resembling a living creature, right?
Miranda Balmer:
Correct, yes.
Celeste Stevens:
So…
[laugh]
I know stem cell research is basically rocket science, so I won’t ask you for
details or anything. However, I wanted to ask what it is about your experiments
that made you back off?
You have previously talked about how you’d rather focus on papers and the
academic aspect of stem cell research rather than the whole experiential
process.
Alex Nguyen:
Yeah, I’d like to know that too.
I remember, ever since we were in college, you have always been in love with
the whole experimental aspect of it!
Miranda Balmer:
[laugh]
I am still in love with it, absolutely!
It’s just that I started noticing some inconsistencies and ... some more theoretical
issues with the whole research process when it came to researching stem cells,
specifically.
So, I basically backed off single stem cell research about … 7 years ago? I went
on to doing other styles of stem cell research, but the contradictions in single
stem cell research stuck with me
Celeste Stevens:
And that’s why you’re now focusing writing about stem cell research
Miranda Balmer:
Yeah yeah
Alex Nguyen:
So, you began writing about them, but you’re not actively doing experiments
Miranda Balmer:
Exactly, and now here I am!
[laughter]
Someone had to talk about this issue ‘cause it was driving me nuts
Celeste Stevens:
Well, I for one think what you’re doing is awesome. I’m glad that you are doing
this, because you seem incredibly knowledgeable in the field.
Miranda Balmer:
Oh, thank you!
But it’s nothing, I’m just one of dozens of researchers out there questioning the
validity of the theoreticals in the methods we use in the lab.
It’s essential, really. This field of research is practically a newborn, and we have
to make sure that we’re going in the right direction with it.
Alex Nguyen:
So, what are some of the issues that pushed you to start publishing all these
papers?
Miranda Balmer:
[...]
Ummmm
I’m sorry, I’m just trying to find a good way of explaining what my biggest issue is,
without having to go into what everything is and all. It’s a lot even for me
sometimes
[laugh]
Alex Nguyen:
[laugh]
It’s okay, take your time.
I know it’s a difficult job you got there. I personally took 3 entire days to read a
single one of your 23 page papers.
Celeste Stevens:
The grind you went through is commendable.
[laugh]
Miranda Balmer:
I agree! I struggle, too, even though I’ve been in this field for more than a
decade now!
But okay, my biggest issue with experimental research on single stem cells is that
the whole way we tackle differentiation and renewal.
To summarize:
We previously defined a stem cell as a single cell that is the origin of all renewed
cells. Renewed cells are those that were born as replicas, out of that single cell
we began with (the stem cell).
A stem cell must also be able to differentiate, meaning that its multiple offspring
can also look completely different.
A stem cell’s children must also be able to replicate exact copies of themselves
(renewal) or have slightly different copies (differentiation).
This means that, generation after generation of cells being born, the stem cell’s
offspring have the ability to have identical twin children, but also to have children
that look increasingly different in order to fit different jobs in the body.
Alex Nguyen:
Yeah, that makes sense.
Celeste Stevens:
Mhm.
[nods]
Miranda Balmer:
The thing is, in single stem cell research, we often try to learn more about single
stem cells by measuring things such as how much they differentiate or renew in a
period of time.
We go into the experiment assuming this is a stem cell, and then try to find the
rate of differentiation and renewal, basically.
Celeste Stevens:
Yeah, yeah.
Miranda Balmer:
But the contradiction is that a stem cell is defined by whether it has the ability of
differentiating and renewing itself. The very two things we are studying.
We go into the experiment already assuming that this is a stem cell, because we
see that there are offspring that are renewing and differentiating.
The thing is, we don’t know who is causing these renewals and differentiations. It
could be the “stem cell” or its children, and we have no way of knowing who did it
because we are only capable of observing the final product.
We don’t know whether this is a stem cell, to begin with.
Alex Nguyen:
How are you doing stem cell research if you’re not sure if it’s a stem cell?
Miranda Balmer:
That’s the thing, yeah. We just go forward, assuming they are stem cells
because we see that someone differentiated and renewed, but we’re not sure if it
was the cell we are studying.
Celeste Stevens:
Is there a way of, I don’t know, calculating something or inspecting it to make
sure it’s a stem cell?
Miranda Balmer:
Unfortunately, no. We are at the beginning stages of this stem cell phenomenon,
so we don’t have anything to go off of.
We are creating these parameters for future reference.
We are using “stem cells” and setting standards for what they should act and look
like in an environment, even though we can’t tell 100% if this is really a stem cell.
Celeste Stevens:
Then, how do we know these scientists are correct? How can you trust the
process?
Miranda Balmer:
To be fair, every field of science has started with assumptions and a leap of fate.
That’s why science, math and technology is ever-changing. We keep improving it
based on what we learn.
Someone invented calculus and the manipulation of chemical reactions at some
point, based on how they saw patterns and relationships between numbers and
factors in whatever system they are studying. We are doing the same, but for the
field of stem cell research.
Alex Nguyen:
That’s incredible. I’m not very sure what to say, since I obviously know no more
than the scientists--the pioneers-embarking on this journey.
Celeste Stevens:
Me too.
[...]
Quite frankly, I’m now doubting everything, ever. I’ll think about it later tonight so
thanks.
[laughter]
But also, I was wondering if you’d ever go back into the experimental side of
stem cell research. Would you, Dr. Balmer?
Miranda Balmer:
Right now, there is still a lot I want to discuss with my peers. There’s a lot to
investigate and put out into the public through papers and such.
So … for now, my answer is no. But stem cell research is my true love in life
[laugh]
So I don’t think I’ll be able to stay full away. I will go back to experimenting once
we have more answers. Once more researchers are aware of this fallacy so we
can discuss it and come up with a plan.
Alex Nguyen:
What kind of plan would it be?
Miranda Balmer:
It’d have to be a new method of experimenting. One that doesn't contradict itself.
Or one in which we must accept the assumption and find a way of reducing the
probability of the model failing.
Celeste Stevens:
That sounds like a good plan.
Alex Nguyen:
If anyone can do it, it’s you and that amazing group of peers you’ve assembled.
Celeste Stevens:
Get back to us once you’ve come up with something, we’ll be excited to let the
rest of the world know!
Miranda Balmer:
[laugh]
Yeah, they’re quite formidable.
And I’ll gladly get back to you once we’ve accomplished our main goal, yes!
Thank you for having me, guys.
Alex Nguyen:
Our pleasure, come back anytime! Thank you for coming, Dr. Balmer!
Celeste Stevens:
And thank you to our listeners for coming back and for giving us all this
overwhelming support. It’s always a treat to hear your feedback, so make sure to
comment your thoughts on this week’s podcast!
Alex Nguyen:
And if you’d like to hear more from us, make sure to subscribe to the The More
You Know podcast. A special thank you to all our listeners on patreon, too!
Have a beautiful, marvelous rest of the week, you guys!
Celeste Stevens:
Thank you!

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