'Shoulder Rests' That Don't Make Contact With The Body

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Laurie Niles, Editor The Juilliard School
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The Week in Reviews
Laurie's Violin School
'Shoulder rests' that don't make contact Shar Music
M-Prize: International
The Weekend Vote with the body Chamber Arts
Competition
Accessories: Looking for a shoulder rests that don't make contact (or Montreal
very minimal contact) with the back or the sides of the violin, but still International Music
have the support ant 'feel' of a shoulder rest. Competition
From D Kurganov The Potter Violin
Posted November 13, 2013 at 07:57 PM Company
Anne Akiko Meyers'
What shoulder rests do you know of that don't make contact (or very
minimal contact) with the back or the sides of the violin, but still have the support Serenade: The Love
Album
and 'feel' of a shoulder rest.
Corilon Violins
I have seen a couple
Thomastik-Infeld
-The Phantom Rest. This is too dangerous for the endpin, I won't consider it Snow Stringed
-Wittner "Isny" - new shoulder rest. Has anyone used it? I have not seen a review of Instruments
it yet. Seems well designed
Anderson Musical
If there are some other ones, I would love to know about them and see which could Instrument Insurance
be the most practical. Since I am essentially stuck using a shoulder rest because of a Dimitri Musafia
long neck, I would like one that does not inhibit the violin's vibration.
Fiddlerman.com
D FiddlerShop
Johnson String
Instrument
From Seraphim Protos Long Island Violin
Posted on November 13, 2013 at 08:05 PM Shop
Mount Airy Violins &
The Phantom is the one I was going to list. Bows
From Christian Vachon Nazareth Gevorkian
Posted on November 13, 2013 at 09:15 PM Violins
Violin Lab
Hi,
Violin-Strings.com
Someone on this site mentioned the new Wittner rest and said that they liked it Wangbow Violin Bow
quite a bit. I think that Vilde Frang uses something that sounds like what you are Workshop
describing, but I have no idea what it is.
Please consider
Cheers! supporting Violinist.com
by becoming a
sponsor, and reaching
From Jeewon Kim
our dedicated community
Posted on November 13, 2013 at 10:13 PM of violin professionals,
students and fans!
Hi D, I've been using the Isny for a few weeks now and am pretty happy with it. It's
not perfect but the closest to what I've been looking for. It's very adjustable and I
now have my fiddle in a place no other shoulder rest has allowed: low (held at left
side of left-bout) and still forward (that is the scroll points more forward than left.)
Also I think it can get the rest closer to the collar bone than any other rest with feet.
It's a good design but a little finicky. The end of the arm attaches to the 'clamp' by
means of a short screw-like mechanism; you align the slot and turn it, but it takes a
bit of practice to catch the threads (you don't want to be in a rush putting this rest
on your fiddle, which might mean arriving a little earlier than normal ;) It's secured
in place by a latch, which so far has held, but doesn't inspire tremendous
confidence. It turns and pivots in all directions at both the arm/clamp end, and
where the rest attaches to the arm. The rest itself is designed like a wind-shield
wiper. If you press the middle the ends pivot in response. This makes the rest quite
flexible, not anywhere as rigid as a rigid-rest, which some may prefer, others not.
Apart from the bolts in the pivot mechanism everything is plastic so I don't know
how long it will last. A friend who tried it said he was afraid he'd break it, but he
admits to squeezing quite a bit. But it is fairly light. I don't know how you get hold
of the adapter for normal chinrests. I'm using a Wittner centre mount chinrest to
attach it to the Isny's clamp, which I've rigged with a temporary home-made rest (I
cut off the cup and fashioned my own.)
There is one design element which concerned me at first. Where the arm attaches
to the clamp, the portion of the clamp which covers part of the back is very close to
the back. I suppose to protect the instrument there is a small rubber bumper on the
screw part of the arm which touches the back as you screw the arm into the clamp. I
was worried it might leave a mark, but so far that hasn't happened. So technically
the Isny does touch the body, albeit minimally.
I got mine for 60 something USD from ebay. I think Concorde carries it too for less,
but their shipping policy to Canada worried me. I've ordered quite a few things
from Michael Wang at www.ebay.com/usr/yourdealscenter and his service has
been excellent.
Hope that helps.
From D Kurganov
Posted on November 13, 2013 at 11:01 PM
very useful info - thanks a lot
From Barry Pearce

Posted on November 14, 2013 at 12:24 AM
Try the Viva La Musica Augustin Diamond:
http://www.vlm-augustin.com/vioin-shoulder-rests/vlm-augustin-diamond/
Ive swapped to this 3 weeks ago - a very versatile rest and it really does not affect
tone on the violin - and Im quite particular. Its incredibly secure on the instrument.
Im impressed. I think this is the one Ill settle on.
The rest really does get where others cannot - it takes some time to get the rest
'configured' properly simply because it adjusts in so many ways - and my violin
contacts my collar bone - which is great. This means I have the pad quite low -
lower than any rest ive ever encountered. Happy to supply photos if it helps.
The Menuhin rest (now made as a Lark copy) also is

very good at preserving the sound of your violin, but doesnt feel like a modern
should rest - it gives a huge freedom but little security.
To be honest although the shoulder rest has some impact the BIGGEST impact on
my violin was changing the Tekka rest I was using (which contacts the violin with
about 4inches of cork) and moved to a SAS chinrest - made an amazing difference
to the sound. So perhaps worth looking at both aspects.
https://www.viva-sas.com/chin_about.htm
From D Kurganov
For me it was because of a simple, maybe naive experiment. Just hold the violin by
the neck and give a healthy tap with your finger around the sound-post area on the
top and the back. A good violin will produce a deep and resonant hum, with a clear
note. Then when you put a shoulder rest on that hum is reduced to a dull and
muted sound. Probably a negligible difference, but I just don't want to hinder the
sound if possible.
From Seraphim Protos

Interesting test!
I wonder how well a simply foam shoulder pad/rest would fare in that testing?
From Rocky Milankov

1. Mach One has got quite good sound properties due to material used, and the
specially designed feet. The ergonomic side of it is a bit questionable.... some
people like it, but for me it created a pressure on my shoulder, so I had to return it
to the shop.
2. Kaplan's Shoulder Horn (http://www.magicmountainmusic.org/pdtSH.html) It
does improve the sound, but, again, the ergonomic side is lacking.
3. The wedge, as described on Elizabeth Walfisch's web site.
(http://www.elizabethwallfisch.com/page15.htm)
I find it really ergonomic and adjustable. The contact with instrument is minimal
and it leaves the back edge of your violin to lean on your collar bone, while the rest
is free to vibrate. Give it a try.
From Stephen Brivati

Ghreetings,
I found that the Viva Augustin diamond was extremely stable and unobtruisve. It
was the closest I have got in years to being able to use a shoulder rest. I gave up
after a week instead of the usual five minutes. If my Ss need one I recommend this
one.
Very expensive ....
Cheers,
Buri
From William Wolcott

I like the Viva diamond. I played for over ten years without a rest. I submit that the
sound of a violin is actually superior with a rest...gasp. I'm sure other professionals
concur...
If ANY part of the back so much as touches ANY part of the shoulder without a rest,
the sound is very muted. I think it is silly that people think restless playing yields a
greater sound. Just my opinion.

Greetings,
hi William, hope all us well. Are we starting a new restless debate? usually it's a
waste of time because even good friends can't agree. so my responses no ofence
intended at all, is that there is virtually no muting from the occasional shoulder
touch and that to me shoulder rest users frequently have a somewhat less rich
sound. one reason I think is that the ret keeps the violin higher so the slightly
higher position of the bow arm inhibits total relaxation of weight into the violin..
Also the fixed position mitigates against useful movements of the violin to
maximize tone.
Now I've gone and dunnit.....
Bestvwishes as always,
Buri
From Smiley Hsu

I played without SR for about 3 years and recently started using the Wolf Forte
Secondo. So far so good. I have tried others and most of them last about 1/2 of one
practice session, then they go into permanent archival. But the Forte Secondo is
doing well. While it does impact the sound, I think it is a little better than a Kun in
that respect.
Regarding the Viva La Musica Augustin Diamond, since it is made of wood, is it

very heavy? Since I have more money than sense, I might give that one a try also.
From Jeewon Kim

Hi Smiley, the Diamond is indeed a very elegant rest. It's the best sounding 'footed'
rest I've tried on my fiddle.
The brackets which hold the feet are the design feature I like best. They swing back
and forth from the midline of the rest which allows a placement very close to the
bottom end of the fiddle. By the same token, the main drawback (for my protruding
clavicle) is that the brackets do not swivel so you can't change the tilt angle of the
rest. With conventional chinrests, that lack of tilt made the rest uncomfortable.
With a chinrest which slopes down to the left (left side lower than right) I was able
to get the diamond to function more like a wedge to get the violin-tilt-angle I
wanted. If I didn't prefer a more forward pointing position, I'd still be using the
Diamond. But if you have longer arms, maybe it'll work with your Kreddle.
P.S. It weighs 2.1 oz (58g)

Smiley is out shopping for more shoulder rests?!
What is this world coming to????
;^)
From Barry Pearce

Regarding weight
VLMA Diamond 64g

Lark Menuhin copy 60g
Kun standard 60g
Everest collapsible 75g
Linnd 60g
VLM Artist 74g
(hhaha yes - i have all these to hand! Ive tried a lot.)
The Menuhin and the VLMA Diamond have the best security. The Menuhin, VLMA
Diamond and Linnd the least affect on sound - the Everrest one of the worse
damping effects. The Linnd and Everest do not have any tilt adjustment. Tilt on the
VLMA Diamond is adjustable - the rotation of the feet adjusts the tilt - to a degree -
but its not total freedom. The Menuhin has nil adjustment other than rotating the
'plate cushion' by moving the rest around on the violin!
So the VLM Augustin Diamond weight is not an issue - even though its made a
wood. The feet are interesting and excellent design that purposefully avoids
contacting the violin inside the purfling. Because of its adjust-ability - the plate
does not have to be in line with the feet - which means it can place the plate in
places others cannot - without falling off your violin.
Im so pleased I expect to buy a second one for my other violin.
From Jim Hastings

"I submit that the sound of a violin is actually superior with a rest …. I think it is
silly that people think restless playing yields a greater sound. Just my opinion."
My opinion, too -- based on personal experience. Of course, the SR material makes

a difference. I had less resonance with the Kun Regular than I did with the Kun
Bravo, which I now use. FWIW, I set the SR at its lowest point on the shoulder side
and no higher than about midway on the chest side; so there's not much difference
in height, for me, between this setup and playing restless. No fall-off problems
here, either -- can't speak for the next player.
----------
"If you LIKE your shoulder rest, you can KEEP your shoulder rest" -- well, for one
more year anyway.
Greetigs, the reason the restless sound is massive compared to using a rest is
because the extra conatc with the body allows the resonance of the violin to fill the
empty cavities of the body like resonating chambers. As silly people we dont have
anything in the skull compared to normal people so ther eis even more space for
resonance. Some of these violinists have a slightly nasal sound because the sound
actually flows out of the nose. Some times the sound is a little more earthy because
the sound is coming out of a difference orifice and sometimes we talk about really
ballsy violinists but it is bets not to go there.
Cheers,
buri
From Rocky Milankov

ha, ha, one of Buri's pearls of wisdom!

Anybody try out the PEDI Elegante'?
2.1oz
From Jeewon Kim

Hi Seraphim, its light weight is the nicest feature of the Pedi (though mine weighs
2.2 oz on my scale, .1 oz > the Diamond, somehow the carbon-fiber and titanium
make it feel so light in the hand ;) For me the foam rubber pad is too slippery, and
so although it tilts to the angle you want, it tends to slip off. I used a red cosmetic
sponge to prevent that. It has a nice contour, and doesn't dampen the violin but I
think it does alter the sound a bit. Maybe it's just me, but I think the Diamond
makes my fiddle sound a bit warmer (under the ear.)
From D Kurganov
Mr Buri, thank you for making me laugh!

I guess I was referring to shoulder rests that don't have 'feet' but either way, thank
you for the responses friends :)
From Smiley Hsu

"Smiley is out shopping for more shoulder rests?!

What is this world coming to????"
I'm the only anti-rester that uses a shoulder rest. I know, I'm an oxymoron.
You are going to have to make a new series of videos:
"How to play the violin using a shoulder rest again"
From Smiley Hsu

Good idea Seraphim. I might take you up on that. But seriously, it is only after
playing without SR for several years, that I have broken the habit of lifting my left
shoulder. I tried SR a few times but it always ended up in excess tension in the left
side, but now that I have developed technique that keeps the left shoulder relaxed, I
am finally ready to put the SR back on.
Just for the record, I neither advocate nor object to the use of SR. I personally
believe that it is a LOT easier to play violin if the instrument remains near
horizontal WITHOUT the use of the left hand. That is, the instrument remains in
playing position even if you drop the left hand. Whether that means supporting the
instrument with SR or with your shoulder (assuming your physique allows), that
really frees up the left hand for faster shifts and ease in reaching the top of the
fingerboard. Many of the masters that played without SR (e.g., Stern, Perlman,
many others), have physiques such that the violin stays up even if they drop the left
hand.
It makes perfect sense, if the left hand is busy holding the violin at the same time
the fingers are trying to play notes, that is extra motion that is going to slow you
down. If the left hand is relieved of the duty of holding up the instrument, it
becomes more efficient and hence easier to play.
So my conclusion after the past several years is the following. If SR causes tension
in the left side, you need to adjust something, or ditch the SR. But if you are able to
use SR without tension, then by all means, it makes life a lot easier.
Regarding sound degradation resulting from the use of SR, I do not have a good
solution to that, but perhaps the correct SR could minimize the problem. I am still
experimenting. Will probably try the diamond mentioned above.

Greetimgs,
great post Smiley. only one point I disagree with. the left hand is more efficient
when it is holding up the violin because it has more inputs it is a great deal
more effiiclient.
Cheers,
Buri
From Stephen Symchych

The Acoustifoam pad has next to no contact with the back of the violin, and doesn't
create any tension at all on its sides. http://www.acoustifoamshoulderrests.com/
From Gail Nelson

As far as shoulder rests - I've tried with and without, even going with a chinrest for
a while as I sorted out what worked and what didn't. I wound up with the Mach-1
on the violin, and one of similar style I found on eBay really cheap for my viola.
eBay Shoulder Rest
It's not too bad for the sound, although the one I liked for sound was the Comford,
but it was not the right fit for me - far too stiff. The curvy style gives me enough
stability, but also enough flexibility to move.
I like the curve on them, it conforms nicely to my physique. But as I tell my

students, whether you decide to use a SR or not, you need to be able to play without
tension. If there is tension, *something* needs to be adjusted.
From Jeewon Kim

"Regarding sound degradation resulting from the use of SR, I do not have a good
solution to that, but perhaps the correct SR could minimize the problem."
In my experience:
Pedi=little degradation (slight alteration)
Diamond=no degradation (slight dampening, but not enough to consider it a
degradation)
Isny=no different from restless, i.e clavicle only contact
re: "If ANY part of the back so much as touches ANY part of the shoulder without a
rest, the sound is very muted." I have a friend, big burly, die-hard anti-rester violist
with very square shoulders, who experienced this. After he put on a Diamond, his
viola was dramatically transformed--much bigger, more open sound with the
Diamond than sitting on his big shoulder.
re: "...the left hand is more efficient when it is holding up the violin because it has
more inputs it is a great deal more effiiclient." I don't see how holding up the violin
offers more inputs, at least any inputs which might offer efficiency. Can you
expound Buri?
From Barry Pearce

Just to add further to my weight post:
Wolf Forte Secondo 81g
The Acoustipad is a frightening concept - how much damage is that going to do to

the lovely back varnish of my violin?
Also the contact points will result in different modes of vibration across the back.
From Smiley Hsu

I have tried the Acoustifoam. Ron Mutchnik, a poster here on v.com and an
awesome player and teacher highly advocates them. He claims it actually improves
the sound, but my personal experience contradicts that. I found that the
acoustifoam does not give enough support, and also does cause sound degradation.
I'm sure the results will differ from one instrument to another. For example, I have
tried a number of chin rests and my instrument absolutely objects to having a
center mounted chin rest. It just kills the sound. So I use a side mount. Some
instruments are the other way around. It all depends on how the instrument
vibrates and how it is constructed and set up.
From D Kurganov
From Nam Nguyen

Posted on December 5, 2013 at 03:47 PM
I got my Isny just few hours ago. It takes some time to mount it on my violin. The
sound comes out like restless. I am really happy about it because from now on I can
play with natural sound + vibrato. The only concern is the secure feeling. This rest
does not provide it. I think I have to change my way to hold the violin: more loose,
less pressure from the jaw.
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HOME INTERVIEWS FAQ TEACHERS SHOPS PERFORMERS BLOGS DISCUSSION

Hope that helps.

very useful info - thanks a lot

From Barry Pearce

Try the Viva La Musica Augustin Diamond:

The Menuhin rest (now made as a Lark copy) also is

From Seraphim Protos

From Rocky Milankov

From Stephen Brivati

From William Wolcott

From Stephen Brivati

From Smiley Hsu

Regarding the Viva La Musica Augustin Diamond, since it is made of wood, is it

From Jeewon Kim

P.S. It weighs 2.1 oz (58g)

From Seraphim Protos

Smiley is out shopping for more shoulder rests?!

What is this world coming to????

From Barry Pearce

VLMA Diamond 64g

(hhaha yes - i have all these to hand! Ive tried a lot.)

Im so pleased I expect to buy a second one for my other violin.

From Jim Hastings

My opinion, too -- based on personal experience. Of course, the SR material makes

From Rocky Milankov

ha, ha, one of Buri's pearls of wisdom!

From Seraphim Protos

Anybody try out the PEDI Elegante'?

From Jeewon Kim

Mr Buri, thank you for making me laugh!

From Smiley Hsu

"Smiley is out shopping for more shoulder rests?!

You are going to have to make a new series of videos:

"How to play the violin using a shoulder rest again"

From Smiley Hsu

From Stephen Brivati

From Stephen Symchych

From Gail Nelson

eBay Shoulder Rest

I like the curve on them, it conforms nicely to my physique. But as I tell my

From Jeewon Kim

From Barry Pearce

Just to add further to my weight post:

Wolf Forte Secondo 81g

The Acoustipad is a frightening concept - how much damage is that going to do to

From Smiley Hsu

From Nam Nguyen

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©1996-2015 Laurie Niles

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