- [Ryan] Did you ever hear

the story about the man

on Somerton Beach?

- [Brent] No.

- [Ryan] It's one of the most mysterious

and creepy cold cases

of all time pretty much.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] So, so the time is December, 1948

in Adelaide, Australia.
- All right.

- [Ryan] A body is found on Somerton Beach

dressed immaculately in a
suit with polished shoes,

and his head leaning against a wall.

The suspected cause of

death was heart failure,

but more likely poisoning.

However, the autopsy

showed no trace of poison.

The last thing he had eaten was a pasty,

which I'm assuming is

Australian speak for a pastry.

- [Brent] You mean, he

didn't eat the little thing

that comes on like women's nipples?

- [Ryan] What the fuck are you-

- [Brent] That's what a pasty is.

- [Ryan] There was no wallet, no ID.

All the name tags on any of his clothes

had been snipped off-

- [Brent] Oh, that's weird.

So far I've been like, okay,

this dude is just like not that crazy.

- [Ryan] Pretty much the story is

guy found dead on the beach,

and hold on, it gets fucking weird.

Oh yeah, and then the fingerprints

that they took from him, unidentifiable.

The guy was off the grid.

Nobody could identify the body.

They put an ad in the newspapers.

- [Brent] Well, I mean,

are your fingerprints in a database?

Don't they do it when you're born?

- No!
- Are you sure?

- [Ryan] They do not fingerprint

you when you're born.

Either way, his fingerprints

were unidentifiable.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] And the weird

thing is, it was on the news

of just people saying,

"Do you know who this is?"

And people came, lots of

people from around the world

came to look at the body.

And they couldn't identify it.

So they just didn't know who he was.

- [Brent] (laughing) How

many is lots of people?

People are taking selfies with the body.

- [Ryan] Yeah, this is 1948, so uh-

- [Brent] Oh, you didn't,

left out that part.
- [Ryan] Oh, I said that
at the very beginning.

- [Brent] Does it get weirder,

'cause it doesn't seem that weird.

- [Ryan] All right, fast forward to

about four months later.

They find in his trousers a sewn in pocket

in his waistband.

It's like a secret pocket.

And inside the pocket

they found a rolled up

little piece of paper

that they believed to be

from a rare book called the "Rubaiyat."

The piece of paper had the printed words,

"Tamam Shud" on it,

which translates to it is ended.

So, maybe they thought, okay,

this could be a suicide, but who would-

- [Brent] No.

- [Ryan] Who would kill themselves

with an untraceable poison?

- [Brent] Most people don't

put their suicide notes

in secret pockets.

You want people to find it, right?

- [Ryan] Anyway, so now they're searching

for this book, the "Rubaiyat,"

to match up to the piece of paper found

on the Somerton Man,

but they can't find it,

so they just bury the guy.

His body is taken a cast of,

so they could look at it later.

He's embalmed just, you

know, to preserve him.

Okay, so now we're eight months later

from when the body is found.

A man walks into the police station

with a copy of the "Rubaiyat."

His story, by the way, is fucking bananas.

He claims that just

after the body was found,

he found a book in his car

that he kept parked by Somerton Beach,

but at the time, he thought nothing of it

until he heard about the

search in a newspaper article.

The book has part of

the final page torn out,

and, sure enough, it

fits the piece of paper

found on the Somerton Man.

That paper came from this book.

- [Brent] From that specific book?

- [Ryan] From that specific book.

- [Brent] Like, that doesn't check out.

- [Ryan] He goes, "Hey,

I think I have that book

"you're looking for," eight months later.

- [Brent] Yeah, no.

- [Ryan] So, they look at the book,

and there's a phone number in it

and some kind of strange code.

So we'll talk about
the phone number first.

So the number leads them to

this woman, Jessica Thompson.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] Who, by the

way, is nearby this area.

And when they interview

her, she's very evasive.

And apparently she was

reportedly going to faint

when shown the bust of the man.

The whole interview she's just crying,

but she denies knowing him.

She did say that she gave the book,

the "Rubaiyat," to a
man named Alfred Boxall.

So they thought, oh Alfred Boxall,

maybe that's the name of the Somerton Man.

And unfortunately, Alfred

Boxall is actually still alive.

And he, not only that,

but he does have a copy of the "Rubaiyat."

Later it was found that Jessica had a son.

They don't know who the father is,

but this son shares very similar

dental and ear similarities

to the Somerton Man.

Now going to the code,

the code that was written in the book.

The code is even less helpful.

Today is still yet to be cracked-

- [Brent] How do we know it's a code?

- [Ryan] Because it looks

like a fucking code.

So, I mean, and that's pretty much

the fucking end of the story.

Like, and now there's

just all these questions.

Like, who was the man?

They think maybe he may have been a spy.

- [Brent] If he's a spy, I

don't think it could be murder.

I don't think it'd be murder anyways

'cause you don't kill a person,

and then just leave them there.

Like, that's just the

worst murder job ever.

- [Ryan] Or the greatest.

I mean, technically it
would be the greatest

'cause we still don't know who did it,

or if he actually was murdered.

That sounds like a good murder.

A murder that's so good

that you don't even know

he was murdered or not,

is to me a perfect murder.

- [Brent] Then we're done,

you know, we're done.

We're done. Great for making me mad.

You basically just told

me a story with no ending,

a really good story, and then-

- [Ryan] Well, I mean it has an ending,

it's just not the one you wanted to hear.

- [Brent] So what's the name of this one?

- [Ryan] This story, in my opinion,

may actually be creepier

than the last one.

On the evening of March 31st, 1922

six residents of the Hinterkaifeck Farm

in Bavaria, Germany were

murdered with a pickax.

Husband and wife Andreas

and Cazilia Gruber,

their widowed daughter Viktoria,

and Viktoria's two

children Cazilia and Josef,

as well as the Gruber family,

maid Maria Baumgartner.

I couldn't find like a

super credible news source

that covered this,

but there are so many

accounts of it online,

it obviously happened.

- [Brent] So this is just

fucking, fan fiction someone-

- [Ryan] No! This isn't-

- [Brent] Someone just

wrote, ha ha, of like-

- [Ryan] There's picture, there's pictures

And then there's like

records of it in Germany.

- [Brent] You work at "BuzzFeed!"

And you don't know that

you can doctor pictures?

- [Ryan] Dude, these aren't doctored.

- [Brent] Okay, all

right, let's get into it.

- [Ryan] Just to give you a

little picture of the scene
two year old Josef was
murdered in his crib,

the family maid Maria

was murdered in her bed,

the rest of the family though

had been slaughtered in the family barn.

- [Brent] So four of the

family's killed in the barn

and then the baby, two year old,

and the maid are left

killed in their beds.

- [Ryan] Exactly.

So for some reason the rest of the family

was killed in the barn.

And they were found stacked

on top of each other.

- [Brent] Safe to assume

they weren't already stacked

on top of each other and then killed.

But they were killed and then

stacked on top of each other.

- [Ryan] (laughing)
And then he killed them

all in one fatal strike.

- [Brent] (laughing) Okay.

- [Ryan] Yeah, no, it

didn't happen that way.

This is where shit starts

to get fucking creepy.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] Whoever did this,

and this is honestly just disgusting,

actually stayed in the house

for several days after he

murdered the entire family.
And we know that he did
this because in the week

that followed the murders

cattle were still being fed,

meals were being eaten in the kitchen,

neighbors reported seeing

smoke rising from the chimney,

and then the family dog was

tied up outside the barn

when the post man came on Saturday.

The bodies were discovered by the way,

the next day, on Sunday.

- [Brent] So that's why

he moved them to the barn

so he could continue living in the house.

- [Ryan] I just feel like,

you murder an entire family

you wanna get away from there.

This guy felt the need to

make himself a sandwich.

Anyways, another creepy

detail of this is that Maria,

the family maid who was

murdered in her bed,

she'd just been hired that day,

that was her first day on the job.

To replace the previous maid

who quit six months earlier

due to the house being haunted.

You want to know some of the things

that caused the other maid to quit?

- [Brent] No.

- [Ryan] The other maid

claimed she heard footsteps

in the attic, voices, things like that.

You know, classic ghost story shit.

So she quit and the family dismissed her

as just another wacky

lady with wacky thoughts.

You know, see you later.

But surprise six months later

now the family starts hearing footsteps

in the attic and then Mr. Gruber,

you know the head of the household,

he finds an unfamiliar newspaper

in the house that he'd never seen before.

A set of house keys go missing.

He also finds that the family tool shed

has been scratched up like

someone tried to pick the lock.

- [Brent] That where they kept the pickax?

- [Ryan] Exactly.

- [Brent] No! Really?

They kept the pickax in the tool shed?

- [Ryan] Where else were

you gonna keep a pickax?

And finally footprints are

discovered by Mr. Gruber,

in the snow, leading to

the back of the house

coming from the woods, but

there's no return footsteps.

They just go straight to the house.

Whoever walked into the

house didn't walk back.

There was no money taken.

Because there was large sums

of cash found on the farm.

So, they were pretty sure that

this was a crime of passion.

For suspects they really

only had one legitimate guy

and it was their neighbor

Lorenz Schlittenbauer.

- [Brent] It can't be the neighbor,

think about it practically

if he's running his own farm

when does he have time to

live in someone else's house

and like wake up in the

morning and feed his cows?

That's a six man job that

one person was doing.

(both laughing)

- [Ryan] Mr. Schlittenbauer believed

that Viktoria's son Josef.

- [Brent] The two year old.

- [Ryan] Yeah, the two year old.

He thought it was his son.

He'd been intimate with Viktoria.

- [Brent] Hmm.

- [Ryan] However the

son was later discovered

to belong to Andreas Gruber.

- [Brent] What!

- [Ryan] Josef was the product of incest.

Meaning Andreas Gruber

played the horrifying role

of father and grandfather.

Also another little factoid to round off

this week of serious bad

luck for this family.

When the families heads were removed

to be studied in the autopsy,

they lost the heads.

So that meant the family

had to be buried headless.

- [Brent] Dude it's 1922-

- [Ryan] How do you lose?

- [Brent] Things get lost.

- [Ryan] That's six heads!

That's so many heads!

How do you lose that many heads?

- [Brent] I, government, man.

- [Ryan] (laughing) The

government (laughing) what?

- [Brent] What happened

to the house after,

did anyone move in?

- [Ryan] They demolished it a year

after the crime had happened.

Just so there's not this

terrible monument of murder

in their neighborhood.

And they but a, actually

just a monument now,

like a literal monument.

- [Brent] That's nice.

- [Ryan] To commemorate the family.

- [Brent] I'm just trying

to find out who did it?

Who done it?

That's the question.

- [Ryan] Yeah.

I mean still unsolved

and I don't think it ever will be solved.

(eerie music)

(both laughing)

(both yelling)

- All right, let's fix the camera.

So today we're driving

to the Stay on Main Hotel

or as it was formally
known, the Cecil Hotel,

as part of an ongoing
series where I tell this guy

true crime stories and

today, we have the privilege

of actually going there because it's in LA

and this place happens

to be the site of one

of the most bizarre

mysteries I've ever read.

Alright, so we're in our hotel room now,

I guess it's time to tell this story.

- [Brent] In a giant red chair

that's shaped like a hand.

- [Ryan] (laughs) So
on January 26th, 2013,

21-year-old Canadian
tourist Elisa Lam checked

into the Cecil Hotel in

Downtown Los Angeles.

On February 19th, 18 days from

the last time she was seen,

Elisa Lam's body was

found naked and floating

in a four foot by eight foot water tank

on the roof of the Cecil

Hotel where she was staying.

- [Brent] This sounds horrible.

- [Ryan] You want to know what it was

that led to her discovery?

- [Brent] Uh.

- [Ryan] It was hotel guests complaining

about the low water

pressure from the hotel.

- [Brent] Nice.

- [Ryan] One couple

after the fact reported

that the water would come

out black before normalizing

and that it had a bad taste,

but didn't complain at the time

because they thought

that was normal for LA.

- Are you gonna drink the water?

- No I'm not gonna drink the water.

No, don't drink that, come on man.

- Cheers.

- [Ryan] You're a savage.

- Tastes clean.

- I mean, it has been three years.

It tastes just like water but

it's too much for me to bear.

I can't.

Plus, there's like this weird

fucking water pipe thing

going on up here.

Another interesting piece

of info is from a statement

from the hotel manager,

and apparently when Elisa

checked into the hotel,

she was originally in a

hostel-style shared room,

but later was moved to

her own private room

due to complaints from her

roommates of odd behavior.

It turns out the last time

she was seen was actually

on surveillance footage
from the hotel elevator.

I'm gonna show you the key points of it.

- [Brent] Show me, there's footage?

- [Ryan] Yeah, what you're

about to see is, I don't know.

- [Brent] I don't want

to see, is there dead?

I don't want to see anything.

- [Ryan] No, no, no, no, it's weird.

I'll tell you that, it's weird.

All right, so this is

the surveillance footage

from the elevator.

This is the last time she was seen.

So that's her.

- [Brent] But why is she?

It like looks like she's

hiding, I'm not sure what.

- [Ryan] It looks like

someone was chasing her.

But I feel like you wouldn't

get out of the elevator

if someone was chasing you.

(eerie music)

I mean, she appears to be moving her hands

in like a really weird, inhuman way.

- [Brent] How has the

elevator doors not closed yet?

- [Ryan] I have no idea.

It almost looks like
she's talking to somebody

right now, right?

Does it not look like

she's talking to somebody

directly in front of her?

- [Brent] Yeah.

I mean, not directly in front

of her, down the hall, but.

I mean there's no one in

front of her so, yeah, okay.

- [Ryan] That's the video.

- [Brent] Point one, that's

strange, I'll give you that.

- [Ryan] That's super strange, right?

- [Brent] But that doesn't

really give us any information.

- [Ryan] I mean, it gives

you some theories though.

One of which was she was

on hallucinogens or drunk,

and while Elisa was in fact bipolar,

and reportedly took four

different medications

for that disorder,

this theory that she was

on hallucinogens or drunk

was quickly rebuked by the fact

that her toxicology test

results came back with nothing

in her system that could have

contributed to her death.

- [Brent] Yea, but, if she's

bipolar, just right there,

that could explain why she was doing that.

- [Ryan] It's possible.

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Another theory was

that she was actually murdered,

but the autopsy showed no visible signs

of trauma on her body.

So if evidence suggests
that it wasn't foul play

and that it wasn't drugs,

many wonder what could have led Elisa

to actually climb in the tank herself

and that's a good question

'cause nobody knows

even how she got up there.

I mean, in fact, to get to the roof,

Elisa would have to either

A, climb up the fire escape,

and there is three at the hotel,

but you'd have to go

out a window to do that.

- [Brent] Mm-hmm.

- [Ryan] B, go through
a locked rooftop door

that would set off an alarm if opened

and no alarm was heard that day.

- [Brent] Mm.

- [Ryan] Once she even got up

there, which, at this point,

after seeing that video, I

think it's highly unlikely

she was able to do that

but okay, fair enough,

she got up there somehow, she would have

to get on the tank platform,

climb up a 10-foot ladder,
open a 20-pound lid, get into the tank,

and somehow close the

fucking lid after she got in

and then you like also got

to remember she was naked,

so that means she either took

her clothes off before or-

- [Brent] Were the clothes never found?

- [Ryan] The clothes

were found in the tank,

so she must have taken the

clothes off in the tank.

- [Brent] Or they were thrown in.

- [Ryan] Or they were

thrown in, exactly, yeah.

This whole scenario to me is fishy.

- [Brent] Yeah, definitely fishy.

- [Ryan] For her to have

done that all herself.

Another popular theory, and

you're not gonna like this

but I have to say it, is a ghost.

If you look at the video, it

appears as if Elisa's talking

to someone right outside the elevator,

which has led some on

the internet to believe

that she is talking to the ghost

of serial killer Richard Ramirez

who was convicted of 13 murders

and stayed in the Cecil

Hotel from 1984 to 1985.

It's also worth noting that

Ramirez was a known satanist.

- [Brent] Absolutely not.

- [Ryan] So you're saying

you don't even think

there's even a little bit of a possibility

that this place is a little haunted

and it can drive people

to do some crazy shit.

- [Brent] To me, it's

basically like saying

so you don't believe there's

even a little possibility

that the spaghetti monster

did this, you know-

- [Ryan] There's no recorded

history of a spaghetti monster.

I don't know where you're getting that.

- [Brent] Show me the scientific journal

in which they've posted

all these ghost studies.

- [Ryan] There is footage of

things moving on their own.

- [Brent] Footage is not science.

- [Ryan] Well there's no one that's like,

"I'm gonna be a ghost scientist".

- [Brent] Why not?

- Because that's a weird-

- There's footage.

- [Ryan] Just think of that

title on a business card,

that's weird, I'm a ghost scientist.

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] And that's really

just the tip of the iceberg

for the Cecil.

It also played home to

Austrian serial killer

Jack Unterweger in 1991,

was the site of an
unsolved murder in 1964,

and was also, according to

some, one of the last places

the Black Dahlia was seen alive.

And, to pile it on even more,

there have been numerous

accounts of people

who have jumped to their death

from the roof of the Cecil

to the point where longtime residents

refer to the hotel as The Suicide.

- [Brent] If anything, that

goes against the ghost theory

because there's already recorded

history of it being easy

for people to get up

onto the roof, therefore,

it must have been easy for

her to get up onto the roof.

- [Ryan] Lemme check to see

if it's actually the roof

or if it's just jumping.

- [Brent] Oh, okay, now

you're changing your story

because it doesn't fit.

(Ryan laughs)

Your designed ghost story package.

You see, you can't just-

- [Ryan] I'm gonna check.

- [Brent] Change the facts in order to-

- [Ryan] I'm gonna serve you up

a fresh truth pancake right now.

We'll see how you like it, hold on.

- [Brent] I do like pancakes.

- [Ryan] Jumped to their
deaths from the building.

Never says the roof.

- [Brent] Hmm.

- [Ryan] Authorities
ultimately ruled Elisa's death

was accidental drowning.

- [Brent] I'm just feeling

bad for the family who's,

people are brick, like-

- [Ryan] And that's exactly

what my next point was gonna be.

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Is like, lost in all

the madness is the family.

- [Brent] Yes.

- [Ryan] Who also actually

filed a wrongful death lawsuit

against the hotel

- [Brent] Good.

- [Ryan] Which was eventually dismissed.

- [Brent] What?

- But, like I said before,

the real tragedy is to the family.

(eerie music)

So today we're driving to certain spots

in Los Angeles as part

of an ongoing series

where I tell Mr. Brent

here true crime stories.

"Buzzfeed Unsolved."

- [Brent] Unsolved.

- Today's mystery is probably one

of the most famous unsolved
murder cases I've ever read,

and enough with the pleasantries,

let's just get into it.

On January 15, 1947,

the remains of 22-year-old Elizabeth Short

or is as she is commonly
known, The Black Dahlia,

were discovered by Betty

Bersinger on a morning stroll,

on the block of 3800

Norton Ave, in Los Angeles.

The body was cut in half,

and so pale and thoroughly drained

of blood that Betty

Bersinger actually mistook it

for a mannequin at first.

(Brent groans)

The body was cut with surgical precision,

leaving no trauma to
internal organs or bones.

And her face had been cut from

her mouth towards her ears

to form a haunting, ever-present smile.

There was no blood on the ground

making it clear that

the body was moved there

after she was murdered.

- [Brent] Okay

- [Ryan] Nine days after Short's discovery

an envelope was received

by "The Examiner,"

addressed in horrific fashion

using cut-out letters,

clipped from movie ads.
It read: "Los Angeles Examiner

and other Los Angeles papers,

here is Dahlia's belongings,

letter to follow."

As promised, the envelope

contained shorts,

a social security card,

birth certificate, snapshots,

and an old address book

with some pages missing.

Gasoline was rubbed on the contents,

to remove the fingerprints.

- [Brent] Life hack right there.

- [Ryan] (laughs) What if it

caught up in flames in transit?

Do you think he was like-

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Sitting at his

home nervous, thinking

oh I really hope they got my letter.

Many notes were sent to the police

and press that followed.

One hand-written letter read:

"Turning in Wednesday, Jan

29, had my fun with police"

Black Dahlia avenger.

- [Brent] Or it could have

just been some random person

who had sent these letters

and it's not the killer.

- [Ryan] Why would you

pretend to be a killer?

- [Brent] Why would a killer kill someone

in the first place?

- [Ryan] Before arriving in LA,

Elizabeth spent time in San Diego

with a man named Robert Manley

who drove her to LA

and helped her check

into the Biltmore Hotel

in downtown Los Angeles.

Many reports state, that

this was the last place

that Short was seen alive.

And like our old friend the Cesar hotel,

the Biltmore is reportedly haunted.

Hotel guests claimed to

have seen Elizabeth walking

on the first floor, in a black dress,

only to disappear into a wall.

She's also been seen on

the 10th and 11th floors.

- [Brent] No. Absolutely not.

- [Ryan] If I had the

option to haunt a place

until someone found out who murdered me

I think I would do that.

- [Brent] So if I step on a fly,

does a fly's ghost stay around?

- [Ryan] Well, I mean, this is assuming

that a fly is capable of complex thought.

- [Brent] Alright, what

about a dog or a dolphin?

- [Ryan] I don't think that's impossible

that there could be a

ghost dolphin or dog.

- [Brent] So you thing

somewhere along the line,
evolutionarily, there was the first animal

that was able to turn into a ghost

and that somehow benefited them?

- [Ryan] All right. (laughs)

Others state that after Manley left,

the guy who dropped her off,

Short headed to the

nearby Crown Grill Bar,

which stands today as Club Galaxy,

and that place is the true last sighting

of the Dahlia, people claim.

- It's a strip club, was she a stripper?

- No, it's not, it wasn't

always a strip club.

Although this case has

been officially listed

as unsolved for nearly 70 years,

there's no shortage of
interesting suspects.

But I'm only going to go

over what are, in my opinion,

the most interesting ones.

The first suspect, was Robert Manley.

The guy who dropped her

off at the Biltmore hotel.

- [Brent] Ah, the Uber driver.

- [Ryan] Yeah, the Uber driver

But not only did he return to San Diego

almost a week before

her body was discovered,

but he also passed a polygraph test.

But, it is worth noting that in 1954

he was committed to a mental hospital

due to hearing voices.

However, when administered

sodium pentothal

which apparently is a truth serum-

(Brent laughing)

- What?
- I'm not fucking with you.

That is literally what it is.

- [Brent] So they got

fucking Snape on the line

and said "Hey, give us your truth serum."

This is why cases are unsolved,

because they're working

with 1947 technology.

- [Ryan] Anyways, he checks out.

He checks out. Onto the next one.

The second suspect was Army

Corporal Joseph Dumais,

who claimed to be blackout

drunk with Elizabeth

in San Francisco a couple

days before her discovery.

When asked if he thought

he killed Elizabeth,

he actually said yes.

But evidence later showed that he was

on his military base the day of her death.

The final suspect is George

Hodel, but before we begin,

let's visit George's

home at the time in LA.

The house had a secret room

where the children were not allowed to go.

And nothing screams

innocent like a secret room.
(both laughing)

- [Brent] Wait, so did the children know

of the secret room they

weren't allowed to go into to?

- [Ryan] This is where

it gets interesting.

So, George's son, Steve Hodel,

who was five at the time

of the Dahlia murder,

later became a police

investigator for 17 years,

and after retiring from the force,

became convinced that his father,

George Hodel, had actually

killed the Black Dahlia.

And looking at the facts,

Steve Hodel makes a

pretty compelling case.

So George Hodel was highly intelligent.

He studied surgery in medical school

and also ran LA county's

venereal disease clinic,

which would also suggest that he's capable

of the surgical disembowelment

and mutilation of Elizabeth Short's body

that was found at the scene of the crime.

Also, despite being a busy doctor,

George Hodel was also a busy bachelor,

having 11 children from

five different women.

- [Brent] Wait, this guy had 11 children

with five different women?

- [Ryan] Additionally, Steve

Hodel also found pictures
of a woman that appeared
to be Elizabeth Short

in one of his dad's photo albums.

However, when examined

by a forensic artist,

the artist was 85% certain

it wasn't Elizabeth in the pictures.

But, in 2014 a different expert

used facial recognition technology

resulting in a 90 to 95% match.

But much like the other tests,

the results were ultimately inconclusive.

Steve also believed his

father's handwriting

was eerily similar to the handwriting

of the Dahlia murderer.

But when reviewed by experts,

the results were mixed

with opinions ranging from

probable, to inconclusive.

George Hodel was also accused

by his own daughter of

sexually assaulting her.

(Brent groans)

But was found not guilty.

Now here's where things get

pretty fishy and suspicious

in my opinion.

At some point police officers did suspect

George for killing the Black Dahlia

and planted listening devices in his home.

On tape, George was heard saying,

quote, "Supposing I did

kill the Black Dahlia,

they couldn't prove it now,

they can't talk to my secretary anymore

because she's dead," end quote

- {Brent] He sounds like a 1950's mobster.

- [Ryan] They can't talk

to my secretary anymore

because she's dead.

(both laughing)

She's dead copper.

Additionally, he also was caught saying

"This is the best payoff I've seen

between law enforcement agencies

and I'd like to get a connection

made in the DA's office."

George's son also tracked

down an LAPD case file

that contained a female witness

who stated George and

Elizabeth knew each other.

This strikes me as a really good time

to tell you that the LAPD

was notoriously corrupt

around this time, which perhaps explains

why the case was dropped,

even though George was

emerging as a clear suspect,

and would also explain

why all physical evidence

from the case has magically disappeared.

- [Brent] Wow.

- [Ryan] This could mean a lot of things,

some believe that George

paid off the police.
While others believe that this is just

a classic case of police incompetence,

but nobody knows for sure.

This isn't over by the way,

in 2012 the ever vigilant Steve Hodel

returned to his childhood

home with a police dog,

that indicated the scent of human remains.

Soil samples were taken from the alley

behind the former Hodel house.

They came back positive

for human remains as well.

And while this doesn't

link to the Dahlia murder

directly because she wasn't buried,

it does indicate that George Hodel

was perhaps not the

biggest stranger to murder.

Even more fascinating,

Steve Hodel would like to

keep digging on the property,

but since it's privately owned,

he doesn't have permission to do so.

And when trying to get

the LAPD to follow up

on this new evidence, they refused.

- It seems like you're trying to say

that the LAPD is still

trying to cover this up.

Which to me, is crazy, no.

- I don't know, alright I mean-

- You can't just shrug

and go "I don't know." No.
- Regardless, it seems
that the famous case

of the Black Dahlia will

remain unsolved officially

but perhaps, I don't know

where I'm going with this.

I think I know who did

it. No, I'm just kidding.

(both laughing)

(eerie, ambient music)

You don't feel weird that

there's a very large possibility

that this is where it went down?

- No.

- [Ryan] Uh, I feel strange about it.

(car beeps)

Back to the office, ah, fuck!

I'm Ryan, that's Brent, let's do this.

This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved"

we're covering Dyatlov Pass.

It's probably one of the

weirdest cases out there.

- [Brent] He says that every time.

- Even your precious science

won't save you today.

- M'kay.

- [Ryan] On the evening

of February 2nd, 1959,

a group of nine skiers led by Igor Dyatlov

died near their campsite next

to Otorten Mountain in Russia.

The horrific state of the

campsite was discovered

on February 26th by a rescue team.

Two of the nine bodies were

found by the tree line,

about a mile away from camp.

And despite temperatures dropping

to negative 30 degrees Celsius,

the two bodies were curiously

wearing nothing but underwear.

- [Brent] Where were their clothes?

- [Ryan] Oh, you'll find out.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] Another three bodies were found

between the camp and the trees.

One of them had a fractured skull,

however doctors at the time determined

that the cause of death for

all five was hypothermia.

Strangely, the remaining four

bodies of the nine original

were not found until two months later.

Of these four, one had a fractured skull,

one had crushed ribs,

and one woman had crushed

ribs and a missing tongue.

- [Brent] Whoa.

- [Ryan] Oddly, these four

bodies that were found later

were wearing the clothes

of the previous bodies

that were found two months earlier.

Even more bizarrely, when

these clothes were tested,

they were found to be radioactive.

- [Brent] Interesting!

- [Ryan] In fact, there were

reportedly traces of radiation
all around the campsite.

- [Brent] Number one,

what kind of radiation?

Alpha, beta, gamma?

- [Ryan] What? Does it matter?

It's radiation!

- [Brent] Well lots of

things have radiation,

like that word in itself

is not necessarily

as scary as one might think.

- [Ryan] The radiation

becomes even more puzzling

when combined with the fact

that there was no outward

trauma to the bodies.

The injuries found in the

bodies were caused by a force

determined to be too strong

for a human to cause.

The creepiest detail, however,

is that there was no evidence

of an outsider entering the tent.

The tent was ripped from the inside.

- [Brent] How do you

look at a tent and know?

Ah, this was ripped from the inside.

- [Ryan] How do you determine any

of these things they determine?

- [Brent] I'm just wondering if you know.

If you don't know, okay, cool, just say-

(Ryan laughs)

there're facts unknown but

that's what the detectives said.
- [Ryan] Anyways, let's
get to the theories now.

One theory is that there was an avalanche

that buried the tent.

That would explain the tent

being cut from the inside

and would also explain

the deaths by hypothermia.

- [Brent] That doesn't

explain the clothes, though.

- [Ryan] Actually, I'm

glad you mentioned that.

There's an effect called

paradoxical undressing

where disoriented hypothermia

victims remove their clothes

because their bodies feel

like they're burning.

This would explain the

nearly naked bodies,

but this theory has no

answer for the radioactivity,

nor does it have an answer

for the missing tongue.

So that theory, to me, is out.

- [Brent] (laughing) What?

How? How is avalanche out?

- [Ryan] How does avalanche

cause radioactive forces

and how does an avalanche

rip someone's tongue out?

- [Brent] You didn't say her

tongue was completely gone,

you said her tongue was cut off.

- [Ryan] It says missing tongue.

- [Brent] There're some

translation things going on here
from Russian to English, I'm just saying.

- [Ryan] Another theory is

that a Soviet test missile

caused the deaths.

A doctor on the autopsy

team said an explosion

could have caused some of the

injuries that were bizarre.

However, no evidence of
an explosion was found

and no records of a missile

launch were located.

Something I didn't mention

earlier was that the expedition

originally had 10 skiers,

but one of them left

early due to an illness.

A man named Yuri Yudin,

making him the lone survivor of the trip.

- [Brent] Ah.

- [Ryan] I bring this up

because Yudin helped identify

items found at the site,

but there were some items

that he couldn't identify.

One of which was a cloth

that he claimed looked to be

of military origin, as
well as skis and glasses,

leading him to believe

that perhaps the military

found the bodies of his friends

before the rescuers did,

maybe trying to cover something up.

- [Brent] We don't know

if like the person asking

the question was leading

him in any way to be like,

does this cloth remind

you of military cloth?

You know, it does, actually.

- [Ryan] Like a "Making a

Murderer" kind of thing?

- [Brent] Yeah, exactly.

- [Ryan] Also there was no evidence

of a fucking explosion near there.

That's kind of hard to cover up.

- [Brent] Well, not if a

missile hit the top of,

you ever see "Mulan"?

When she does the thing-

- [Ryan] Okay, right now you are citing

a animated feature film by Disney.

Onto the next one.

This next theory, even I will

admit, is completely bananas.

Some suspect that the group was

actually attacked by a yeti.

- [Brent] All right, next. (laughs)

- [Ryan] This theory

even commanded two hours

of a Discovery Channel special called,

"Russian Yeti: The Killer Lives," in 2014.

However, there was no evidence of a yeti

and furthermore, I can't

imagine a yeti taking the time

to cover its tracks.

- [Brent] Either way, everyone knows

that the yeti is a peaceful creature.

- [Ryan] Not according to

"Russian Yeti: The Killer Lives."
This brings us to our final
and most popular theory.

And I imagine you saw this

one coming, but it's aliens.

- [Brent] Oh God.

- [Ryan] All right, there were,

no, no, hear me out here.

There's actually a lot of

reasons why this makes sense.

There were supposedly reports

of bright flying spheres

in the area in February

and March of that year.

Here's a quote from lead

investigator Lev Ivanov.

Quote, "I suspected at the

time, and am almost sure now,

that these bright flying

spheres had a direct connection

to the group's death," end quote.

Even more peculiar,

Ivanov was also ordered

by Soviet officials to close the case.

Aliens would also perhaps

explain the radioactivity found

at the site, and would also explain

the inhuman trauma caused to the bodies.

And as far as no evidence

being found of an outsider

from the tent, I think it's safe to assume

that if they're out there,

aliens have gotten pretty

good at covering their tracks.

- [Brent] I don't buy it.

Bright flying spheres? Missiles.

- [Ryan] No!

- [Brent] You're going aliens

over, oh, a possible missile.

- [Ryan] I think they're

both equally plausible.

Maybe that's why they ripped

the tent from the inside,

maybe they saw something

they didn't wanna see

and they got so scared that

they were trying to retreat

and they were like fuck zippers.

- No!
- Yes.

- [Brent] How?

- [Ryan] Because there's no evidence

of a fucking missile blast.

- [Brent] There's no evidence

of a fucking alien ship

landing on a mountain!

- [Ryan] That's because we

wouldn't know what evidence

of that looks like, and if there was-

(Brent laughs hysterically)

What are you talking about?

No, fuck you!

Uh, regardless, in the end,

authorities supposedly determined

that the deaths were caused

by a unknown compelling force.

- [Brent] I agree.

- [Ryan] And, consequently,

the case remains unsolved.

- [Brent] Based off the

information in front of us
I go avalanche, number one,
military coverup number two.

- [Ryan] But you can't say

it's not aliens, is my point.

- No, no, because it doesn't say aliens.

It doesn't prove aliens.

You cannot connect the two

other than you want to.

- (laughing) I think it
proves a little bit, yeah,

that there may be alien life out there.

I think it's proof that

maybe we're not alone.

But-
- Uh, no.

- Yes, yes!

- I don't think really

there's any conclusion

that you can come with

based off these facts.

- So what do you think happened then?

- I don't know!

There's not enough information,

that's why it's unsolved.

(eerie music)

- What would a compelling force be?

You know what a compelling

force sounds like to me?

Aliens.

- I think your argument is not

a compelling force, though.

So.

- Wow, good one, man.

- Thank you.
- Good.
I'm gonna think about that
later and get a good chuckle.

- You gonna walk away now,

is that what you're gonna do?

Don't you dare turn that camera off!

(Brent and Ryan laughing)

Today on "Buzzfeed
Unsolved" we're covering

the mysterious deaths of Tupac Shakur

and Biggie Smalls, starting with Tupac.

Right now we're on our way to Las Vegas

and eventually Los Angeles to cover

some of the spots where

this all went down.

As always, I'm Ryan, that's Brent,

and we brought along our friend Daysha

because it felt wrong to

cover Biggie and Tupac

without bringing a true superfan.

- I'm more of a Tupac fan,

but you know, Biggie, Biggie's cool.

- Irrelevant.

- You're irrelevant.

- Anyway, let's get into it.

On September 7th, 1996,

at the MGM Grand Casino

in Las Vegas, Nevada,

Tupac Shakur attended a

Mike Tyson boxing match.

After the match, Tupac

left with Suge Knight,

who at the time was

C.E.O. of the west coast

record label Death Row Records,

the label that Tupac was signed to.

However, on their way out,

Tupac and his bodyguards

got into a fight with Orlando Anderson

in the lobby of the MGM Casino.

- [Brent] In the lobby?

- [Ryan] In the lobby of the MGM.

Orlando Anderson was a member

of the Compton-based Southside Crips gang.

After the brawl, Suge

Knight and Tupac left

in Knight's car with Tupac's entourage

following in cars behind them.

While stopped at a traffic

light at the intersection

of Flamingo and Koval, a white Cadillac

pulled up on the passenger

side of Knight's car

and shot out of the window,

hitting Tupac four times

and grazing Knight in the

head with a bullet fragment.

In 2014, 18 years after the

shooting, Chris Carroll,

a now retired Las Vegas

Police Department sergeant

came forward to say he

was first at the scene.

- [Daysha] Why was he quiet for 18 years?

- [Ryan] If I was a cop, I

wouldn't necessarily say,

in a public way that I

was the first person-

- All right.
- Owned, Daysha!

- [Daysha] Shut up!

- [Ryan] According to Carroll,
when he opened the car door,

Tupac fell out of the

car covered in blood,

and Carroll asked, quote, "Who shot you?"

and states that Tupac

took a breath to respond

and said, quote, "Fuck you,"

before slipping into unconsciousness,

making those Tupac's last words.

- [Daysha] Since we're

right here, there's no way.

- [Brent] What time is it right now?

- 11:56.

- [Ryan] Look how many

cars right now at 11:56.

On a Friday that's not nearly

as busy as a Tyson fight.

- There's no way, if I
heard those gunshots,

it would just be like, hmm.

- [Ryan] You'd look where it was, right?

- Yeah.

- [Ryan] Tupac was taken to

the University Medical Center

and placed on life support

in a medically induced coma.

And on September 13th 1996,

six days after the shooting,

Tupac died due to his

injuries at the age of 25.

- [Brent] Whoa, 25?

I didn't realize he died so young.

- [Daysha] Both of 'em died super young.

- [Ryan] Yeah, he died at

25, Biggie Smalls died at 24.

- [Daysha] I think that's what

was so heartbreaking about it

is that they were these two

young black males on the rise,

and they just got snatched up.

- This is where it happened,

this is where he died.

One strange fact is that

the Las Vegas police

never arrested anyone in

connection with the murder.

They also failed to follow

up with Yaki Kadafi,

a member of Tupac's
entourage who was there

that evening who claimed he

could identify the assailant.

However, Kadafi was unfortunately

murdered two months later

on November 10th, 1996 before

he could be interviewed.

- [Brent] Wow.

- [Ryan] A Las Vegas homicide

detective who oversaw the case

claimed it got quote, "The same treatment

"as any other homicide here," end quote.

- [Daysha] What does that mean?

- [Brent] We don't care

about anyone who died.

(all laughing)

We don't care if he was famous.

We treat everyone the same.

- [Ryan] All right, let's get

to some of the main theories.

The first theory is from

former "LA Times" journalist,
Chuck Phillips, who believes
that Orlando Anderson,

the Crips gang, and none

other than Biggie Smalls

are responsible for the murder.

Chuck Phillips and the "LA

Times" investigated the murder

over the course of a year

and came up with the

following conclusions based

on anonymous sources.

Conclusion one, members

of the Southside Crips

were involved in the

shooting as retaliation

for Tupac's beating of Orlando Anderson.

Conclusion two, Orlando

Anderson was the shooter.

Conclusion three, Biggie

Smalls paid $1 million

for the murder of Tupac

and supplied the gun.

- [Brent] No, how would anyone know that?

- Well he did-
- Also, why would

you supply the gun?

- [Ryan] Because he wanted it

done with his gun reportedly.

- [Brent] Why?

- [Ryan] That's 'cause how,

that's how things go down, I guess.

I don't know.

Speaking of Biggie, let's

go over his potential motive

for wanting Tupac dead.

Biggie's year-long feud
with Tupac was well known

and at the forefront

of the East Coast, West Coast rap rivalry

including a reported verbal

altercation and diss tracks.

In one track titled "Hit

'Em Up," Tupac claimed

he had slept with Biggie's

wife, Faith Evans.

- How does that one go? Is that?

♪ Hit 'em up, hit 'em up ♪

Or is that a different one?

(Daysha laughing)

I'm actually curious.

- I think you should

just never do that again.

- No, no, no.

- [Ryan] Strangely, according to Phillips,

neither Biggie nor anyone connected

to Biggie was questioned by the police.

- [Brent] Wow, okay.

- [Ryan] As for Orlando

Anderson, the believed shooter,

he was shot to death in May 1998.

Up until his death, Anderson

denied responsibility

for Tupac's death and was never charged.

The second theory is

from former LAPD Detective Russell Poole,

who believes that Suge

Knight set up the murder.

Despite Suge Knight also

being hit in the shooting,
Detective Poole believed
Suge Knight had motives.

Motive one, Suge Knight

apparently owed Tupac a lot of money,

by some accounts $3 million,

a theory corroborated by
the fact that Afeni Shakur,

Tupac's mother, sued Death

Row and Knight in 1997

for mishandling funds

and taking millions of

dollars away from Tupac.

Motive two, Tupac intended

to leave Death Row Records,

Suge Knight's label.

Tupac had recently fired

his lawyer David Kenner,

who, in addition to being

Suge Knight's lawyer,

also wrote up Tupac's agreement

with Death Row Records.

And sure enough, a week after the firing,

Suge Knight invited Tupac

to the fateful boxing match.

Here's some other things

that don't look good for Suge Knight.

Shortly after their

brawl in the MGM lobby,

Knight stopped to make a phone call

while everyone else was fleeing the scene.

Knight also insisted

that Tupac ride with him

in his car after the boxing match.

- [Daysha] Was it on Tupac's

side that they shot at the car?

Or was it on Suge Knight's side?

- [Ryan] The side of the
car that Tupac was on.

- [Brent] So how'd they know

that they got Tupac's side?

- Oh, I see what you're saying.

So how would they know

which side Tupac was on.

- Yeah.
- Unless somebody told them.

- [Brent] Right.

- [Ryan] Orlando Anderson,

the man who Tupac fought with

in MGM also contradicted

his initial testimony,

at first saying Knight

was part of the MGM brawl,

but then later saying that

Knight was trying to break up

the fight, stating quote,

"I seen him pulling people

off of me," end quote.

Many people believe

this turnaround happened

because of a payoff by Knight.

Detective Poole also claims

the bullet wound Knight says

he received that night was

never verified by the hospital,

the police, or any other witnesses.

- [Daysha] So nobody knows if he got shot?

- Exactly.
- Whoa!

- However-
- Really?

- [Daysha] How did that get through?

- However, however, this

contradicts the 2014 report
from former Las Vegas Police
Sergeant Chris Carroll,

who stated that Knight's head

was quote "gushing blood"

and that he had quote,

"clearly been hit in the head."

Carroll also mentioned that

Knight showed legitimate concern

and that quote, "it wasn't acting."

- [Daysha] Why would he be

like, "It's not acting"?

That sounds like something

that someone would pay you to say, like-

- [Ryan] You don't trust

that Chris Carroll was a

licensed casting director

who wouldn't notice bad

acting from good acting.

- [Brent] Well, he said

that later though so,

he must have heard the rumors

that people thought it was Suge.

- [Ryan] That could be also

why he said this, quote,

"This is not the guy who had

him killed, it's ridiculous."

- [Brent] To me, yeah,

this makes way more sense

than Biggie so this guy would

only benefit from Tupac dying

'cause then he's gonna

be able to get more money

'cause then obviously his music

will become immortalized now.

- [Daysha] And he'll still own everything.

- [Brent] Right.
- [Ryan] Here's my thing about it,

I just, I can't see

someone putting themselves

in the line of fire in a murder scenario.

I just don't-
- True, no.

- [Ryan] That doesn't make sense to me.

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] The third theory is

from LAPD detective Greg Kading,

who believes that Sean Combs,

AKA P. Diddy or Puff Daddy and C.E.O.

of the East Coast record

label Bad Boy Records

orchestrated Tupac's death.

Detective Kading got a Crips

gang member named Keith Davis

to confess on tape that P.

Diddy paid him $1 million

to carry out the murder

of Tupac and Suge Knight.

Keith Davis confessed

that Orlando Anderson,

who was Davis' nephew, was the

one who pulled the trigger,

and Davis also admits to being in the car

when he recounts the

night that Tupac was shot.

Quote, "Orlando rolled down

the window and popped him.

If they would have drove on my side,

I would have popped them," end quote.

Keith Davis claims the

motive behind P. Diddy's hit

was due to fear that Suge

Knight would strike first,

and that Tupac was only

included in the hit

because P. Diddy was pissed off

about Tupac's song "Hit 'Em Up."

Furthermore, before Tupac was killed,

he was shot multiple times

on November 30th, 1994

at Quad Recording
Studios in New York City.

Tupac repeatedly stated

that he suspected people

associated with P. Diddy

were the perpetrators,

a suspicion corroborated
by a 2011 confession

from Dexter Isaac, who

claimed he was hired

by a P. Diddy associate
to rob Tupac that night.

However, P. Diddy has denied

involvement in the murder,

stating, quote, "This

story is pure fiction

and completely ridiculous," end quote.

And for what it's worth,

Keith Davis was reportedly

looking at 25 years to life

due to unrelated activities

if he didn't reveal his secrets.

- [Daysha] If you're saying

that someone paid you a million dollars,

like, wouldn't you,

wouldn't there be some kind

of receipt to say that.

- [Ryan] You don't want a paper trail.

- But there's-
- Why would you

establish a paper trail.

- Okay, all right.

- Overruled.

- Listen.
(Brent and Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] The next theory is

that the Jewish Defense League,

- [Daysha] What?

- [Brent] Let him finish.

Let him finish!

- Okay.
- The Jewish-

- [Brent] Hold up, there

are cops coming up.

- [Ryan] Oh, shit, really?

- Yeah.

(sirens wailing)

- [Ryan] The next theory is

that the Jewish Defense League,

an extremist pro-Israel
group, killed Tupac.

The FBI had files of alleged

death threats on Tupac

from the Jewish Defense League,

which has been classified

as a terrorist group by the FBI.

Other than that, there's

really not much to see here.

- [Brent] I mean, they did offer threats.

- [Ryan] They did offer threats.

- [Brent] They're the

only people who said,

"I'm gonna kill you."

- [Ryan] You know what? You have a point.

The last theory I'm gonna
go over is pretty silly.

- Aliens!
(all laughing)

Finally, I believe you.

Yes, of course! Together, working at last.

- [Ryan] Some believe that

Tupac is in fact still alive

and faked his own death.

In 2015, some news outlets

reported that a man

named David Myers claimed he

helped Tupac fake his death

and that Suge Knight, among

others, helped as well.

However, this story

seems to have originated

from a fake news site,

so take it with an enormous grain of salt.

Some believe Tupac is

alive and well in Cuba.

- [Brent] I like, I want to

believe that's the truth.

- [Daysha] Yeah.

- [Brent] Because I think it's,

means so much more for like-

- Humanity?
- Yes. Exactly.

- [Ryan] Yeah, everything would be better

in the world if that were true.

- Yes.
- Yeah.

- It seems clear to me why it's unsolved.

There's a lot of holes,

there's a lot of eyewitness

and a lot of people who aren't talking.

- [Daysha] Who would have enough power

to get all of these people

to not say anything?

- Who killed Tupac?

That'll do it for today.

We're gonna stay the night in Vegas,

and we'll pick it back up tomorrow

when we're gonna drive to Los Angeles

and discuss the death of Biggie Smalls.

So, see you then.

- Cheers.

I've lost $14.

- I won three bucks!

- Fuck.

Fuck!

Welcome to part two of an

episode of "BuzzFeed Unsolved"

where we discuss the

deaths of Tupac Shakur

and Biggie Smalls.

We just discussed Tupac in Vegas,

and now we're hitting the road again

to go to Los Angeles to discuss Biggie.

So, let's get into it.

On March 9, 1997 at the

Peterson Auto Museum

in Los Angeles, Christopher

Wallace, AKA Biggie Smalls

or the Notorious B.I.G.

was attending a Soul

Train Awards after party.

At approximately 1:00 a.m. Biggie Smalls

left the party with Sean Combs,

AKA P. Diddy of Puff Daddy

and CEO of the East Coast

record label Bad Boy Records,

the label that Biggie was signed to.

P. Diddy left in a car with others

and Biggie left separately with

his driver and two friends.

Biggie's car followed Diddy's car

while heading north on Fairfax Avenue

but only Biggie's car would get stopped

at the stop light on Wilshire Boulevard.

While Biggie's car was

stopped at the intersection

of Fairfax and Wilshire,

a black Chevy Impala pulled up

and fired a gun at Biggie

from the driver's side window,

hitting Biggie four times.

Of the four people in the car,

Biggie was the only one who was hit.

We're about to drive

though the intersection

where he got shot.

They came out of this

parking structure right here

and then they got stopped

right here at this light.

- [Daysha] This is really weird.

- [Brent] This is weird.

- [Ryan] Yeah, could you

imagine looking to your right

and the first thing you see is a gun?

- [Brent] That's crazy.

- [Daysha] (groans) Makes me feel like

I don't wanna sit in this

seat anymore. (laughs)

- [Ryan] According to multiple witnesses,

the driver was a black male

in a blue suit with a bow tie.

P. Diddy ran out of his car

and across Wilshire

Boulevard to Biggie's car

and they drove to

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center

where Biggie was pronounced

dead at 1:15 a.m.

Before we get into suspects,

I'd like to point out

that former LAPD Lieutenant

Sergio Robleto commented

on how strangely uninvolved

the LAPD robbery-homicide

division was in the case.

Quote, "They were there that first night,

"but they were gone by the next morning

"and didn't come back to the case

"until an entire month had passed.

"In 30 years, I had never seen that,

"a murder case involving a major celebrity

"that wasn't taken over

by robbery-homicide

"right out of the gate."

End quote.

- [Brent] That does look strange.

But you know where else they

did that was in Tupac's murder.
- [Ryan] That's true, it's
two different precincts too.

LAPD and Las Vegas, so

if this is a cover-up,

this person's reach is crazy.

That being said this case

is different from Tupac's

in that I could only find one theory

that seems to have legitimate evidence.

However, it is a very solid theory.

The theory from former LAPD

Detective Russell Poole

is that Suge Knight,

former CEO of the West Coast

record label Death Row Records

along with corrupt LAPD

cops killed Biggie Smalls.

Suge Knight's possible motive

was to avenge the death

of Death Row Record's star artist, Tupac,

who some suspect was murdered by Biggie.

- [Daysha] Suge Knight

can't catch a break, man.

(laughs) Everyone is after this dude.

- [Brent] If the hat fits though.

- [Ryan] A prior case led

Detective Poole to the discovery

that members of the

LAPD were on the payroll

of Death Row Records

serving as security guards.

- [Brent] Wow.

- [Ryan] One of the members of the LAPD

who was on the payroll

was an officer named David Mack.

Suge Knight's connection
to Mack is critical

because not only was Mack

there the night of the party,

but Mack also owned a black Impala

like the one seen at

the scene of the crime.

David Mack was also affiliated

with an alleged hit

man named Amir Muhammad

who knew Mack in college.

Amir Muhammad happens to eerily match

the description of the shooter

leading Detective Poole to believe

that Suge Knight hired

Muhammad for the hit on Biggie.

When Detective Poole presented

his case to his superiors,

he said he was told, quote,

"we're not going that way," end quote.

- [Brent] Crazy.

- [Daysha] I don't wanna say, corruption.

- [Ryan] He didn't say, no, you're wrong.

He didn't say, that's stupid.

He said, "No, don't look that way."

That's always the sentiment

of an innocent man.

Additionally, multiple people claim

Suge Knight ordered the hit on Biggie.

One of these people

was a prison informant

named Mario Hammonds,

who after Biggie's death

claimed Suge Knight said, quote,
"My people handled the business.

"They took care of him.

"We just missed Puffy," end quote.

- [Daysha] Question. Was

Suge Knight at this party?

- [Brent] Yeah, he must've

been if it was the Soul Train.

- [Daysha] Wait. What?

- [Brent] Is that not a music awards?

- [Ryan] Suge Knight had to be there,

it was the Soul Train Awards.

(all laughing)

- [Brent] That's not what I meant at all.

- [Ryan] It kinda seems

like that's what you meant.

- [Brent] Of course, this person

who's in the music world

would have to be there!

- I just-
- Fuck you guys.

- I just-
(all laughing)

In 2002, Biggie's mother Viletta Wallace

filed a wrongful death lawsuit

that prompted further investigation.

Investigators spoke to
witness Eugene Deal,

Diddy's former body guard,

who described a man that was

lurking outside near Diddy

after the party.

Deal said the man walked north

toward where the black Impala

would eventually appear from.
When shown a line up of photographs,

Deal picked out the man he saw.

The man was Amir Muhammad.

- [Brent] That's pretty strong evidence

to be able to pick someone

out of a line up, like-

- [Daysha] That you've never seen before.

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] This investigation also uncovered

many missteps of lead

investigator Steve Katz.

Including his failure

to forensically test
David Mack's black Impala.

- [Brent] Yeah, they can't test

every single person's black Impala though.

- [Ryan] Yeah, but they could

test the black Impala owned

by a man who is on the payroll

of Death Row Records, a suspect.

- [Brent] Well, wait. Why?

- [Ryan] Because he has a black Impala

that matches the one at

the scene of the crime!

X person was at the party

the night that it went down.

This person had a car

that matches the one seen

at the scene of the crime.

You should ask that person some questions.

- [Brent] All right, fair enough.

- [Ryan] Additionally, Lead Detective Katz

did not interview Amir Muhammad.

- [Brent] Wow.

- [Ryan] Katz also reportedly forgot

to turn in over 200

pages of documents hidden

in his drawers at work

that included key testimony

describing in detail

the involvement of another LAPD officer

in the murder of Biggie Smalls.

As a result of the hidden evidence,

the judge declared a mistrial

in the wrongful death lawsuit.

- [Brent] That pesky paperwork is at home

so we can't do anything
about it, mistrial!

- [Ryan] Biggie's family re-filed

their wrongful death lawsuit in 2007,

continuing to accuse
the LAPD of a conspiracy

but this lawsuit was dismissed.

And it gets worse.

In 2011, the case was reopened

when the FBI's file on Biggie was released

and revealed Biggie was shot

by Gecko nine millimeter

armor piercing ammunition.

- [Brent] What?

- [Ryan] An ammunition so rare

that there are only two distributors of it

in the United States.

- [Brent] What!

- [Ryan] And the same type

of ammunition was found
in none other than David Mack's home.

- [Brent] What! The cop!

- [Ryan] A super rare

ammunition found only

in two places in the US.

- Yeah!
- Found in Biggie!

Found in this guy's

house? Pfft, irrelevant.

- [Brent] He was like,

the murderer didn't write

his initials on the bullet

so there's no way we could

trace it back to him.

- [Ryan] In 2015, Detective Russell Poole

died from a heart attack.

- [Daysha] Quote, unquote.

- [Ryan] No, he died from a heart attack.

And, unfortunately, no
arrests in connection

with the Biggie Smalls

case were ever made.

However, it is worth mentioning that

in 2015 Shuge Knight ran

over two men with his car.

One of the men died

and Knight is currently

in jail awaiting trial.

- [Brent] If you were that big

of a mastermind at killing people,

you don't just go run

over two guys in your car.

- True.
- But then,

we don't know if he intentionally meant

to go run over those guys.

- And I know a lot of brilliant people

that are shitty drivers.

(Daysha laughs)

- Are you talking about me?

(Daysha and Ryan laughing)

Or are you talking about yourself?

The person who didn't fill

the gas up in their car.

- [Ryan] As always, there

are wild theories out there

that have pretty much

no legitimacy to them.

Some people believe the

FBI killed Biggie and Tupac

to put an end

to the violent East Coast

versus West Coast rap rivalry.

And some people even insist

that Biggie is still alive,

although this isn't as

popular as it is with Tupac.

- [Brent] You know what

I like about that theory

is that they're all still

alive and they're all friends.

- You know, both with

like Biggie and Tupac,

their albums had to deal

with a lot with death.

And so like, I know that

a lot of people felt

like that played into why they

thought he was still alive.

Actually, so there's one

theory that I thought

that you'd maybe talk about.

Someone had told me

that they thought that Puffy

actually killed Biggie.

- [Brent] I did hear that Puffy

as CEO of Bad Boy would actually

make a little bit more money posthumously

off Biggie Small's records.

- [Daysha] I feel like I've also heard

rumors that Biggie was

thinking about leaving Bad Boy.

- [Ryan] Oh, well then that's different.

It's weird that P. Diddy was

connected to both of these.

- [Daysha] I don't know, with Tupac's,

I feel like it was still

a little bit uncertain.

With Biggie, this feels

like Suge definitely,

there's more of a clear link

to how he had his hands in things.

Shuge Knight's really

crafty, I'ma say that.

- [Ryan] Please don't kill me, Mr. Knight.

- [Daysha] Yeah, I know.

It's like one of those

things where I'm like,

I'm leaning towards that,

but I don't wanna actually say that.

'Cause then I might not

actually be seen again.

(all laughing)

- [Ryan] Yeah, you might

not actually be breathing.

- [Brent] Yeah, but if

you did then people would,

well hopefully would

consider him more, right.

You gotta take a stand so that

people can find the truth!

- [Ryan] But in the end,

the mystery of the Biggie Smalls murder

despite having a good deal of evidence

remains officially unsolved.

(eerie music)

- [Brent] 3.9 miles to the gas station.

- [Ryan] How did we run out of gas?

- [Brent] Two miles.

- Get out of my way truck.

- [Brent] One mile.

Any second now, we're gonna stop moving.

The Shell's there.

- I'm gonna coast through the stop sign.

(Daysha yelling)

- [Brent] Oh no, come on!

(all laughing)
- Oh my God.

Right here!

(all yelling)

Oh my God.

Oh my God.

- Yeah!
- Oh my God.

- Get the fuck out of my way!

This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved"

we're covering the Zodiac Killer.

Right now we are at the scene

of his first crime which,

at the time, seemed like a good idea,

but now that we're here,

it's fucking pitch black.

This is a horrible idea so

let's just get this over with.

- Sounds good, let's do it.

- [Ryan] So, in the late

'60s and early '70s,

the Zodiac Killer terrorized

Northern California,

killing at least five people

and claiming to have

killed 37 people in total.

- [Brent] 37?

- [Ryan] He claims to
have killed 37 people.

- [Brent] Like, he wrote a note?

- Yeah, he was a, he was a douche bag.

On December 20, 1968 around 11

p.m. near Vallejo, California

17-year-old David Faraday and

16-year-old Betty Lou Jensen

were shot and killed while

sitting in a parked car

in a gravel parking area

off of Lake Herman Road

in the exact spot we

are sitting right now.

- The exact spot, like right here?

- Like right here.

- Its' just the wind.

- Yes, right here. (yelps)

- It's the wind!

- You're not freaked

out a little right now?
- No!
- What the fuck, dude?

- It's the wind.

You don't want me, we

can close the windows.

- Yeah, let's close the

windows, fuck this shit.

(window whirring)

- If anything, though, it
would make it somewhat easier

to hear footsteps that sneak up on us.

- Fuck, you're right,

let's open the windows.

(Brent laughing)

By the time police arrived,

Betty was found dead

on the ground 30 feet away from the car,

but David was still alive.

However, David would die

on the way to the hospital.

At this time, nobody knew

that this was the work

of a serial killer.

- [Brent] Oh, 'cause it

was the first murder?

- 'Cause it was the first time.

Can we leave now?

- Should I grab the camera?

- [Ryan] What is wrong with you?

Are you really not scared right now?

- [Brent] Why? Why on earth?

- [Ryan] 'Cause look where

the fuck we are, dude.

Look where the fuck we are.

There's nothing around!

- Have you never been in the

middle of nowhere before?

- I'm freaking out right now!

I'm not gonna lie, I'm freaking out.

Look at this shit, where

the fuck are we right now?

There's two of us out here

and who knows what the fuck

is out in that darkness.

Not down to find out.

Call me a wiener, whatever, I don't care.

The Zodiac's next crime

would occur on July 4, ,

at around midnight near

Blue Rock Springs Park,

only a few minutes away

from the previous crime.

The Zodiac approached a

parked car with a flashlight,

shooting 22-year -old Darlene Ferrin

and 19-year-old Michael Mageau

before walking away and coming back

to shoot them both again.

Both were still alive when found,

but only Mageau would survive.

Mageau was able to make out the

face of the man who shot him

and described him as a young

white man, approximately 26

to 30 years old, stocky,

200 pounds or larger,

about five foot eight with

light brown curly hair,

and a large face.

Within an hour, the police
received a phone call

from somebody claiming to be the shooter.

He also claimed to be the shooter

in the Lake Herman Road murders.

Happened right around here.

The parking lot was probably

empty just like this.

I don't like the way this feels either.

- I mean, it's eerie

'cause it's night time,

but if I was here during the day,

it wouldn't feel weird at all.

Right behind you is a

freaking kiosk that says,

"Parking fees are free today."

Like, that's not a scary sight.

- [Ryan] (laughs) I guess.

On August 1, 1969, the

"San Francisco Chronicle,"

the "San Francisco Examiner"

and the "Vallejo Times Herald"

all received identical

hand written letters

from someone claiming to be the killer.

The letters revealed specific

details about the murders

to prove that the writer

was in fact the killer.

The letters were signed

with a distinct mark,

a circle with a cross through it,

the mark that would

eventually become known

as the mark of the Zodiac Killer.

Also included in the letters
were three different codes

that the Zodiac demanded

be printed in newspapers

or else he would kill again.

- [Brent] Why did they print them?

- [Ryan] Because he said

if they didn't print them,

he would kill more.

- [Brent] That just creates fear

and gives the killer what they want.

- [Ryan] But at the same time,

I wouldn't want death on my hands either.

- [Brent] It's not your hand,

you're not killing anybody,

that guy is killing someone.

- [Ryan] True.

- [Brent] You not printing

something has nothing to do

with whether or not someone

is going to kill someone.

- [Ryan] The Zodiac claimed

that the cracked codes

would reveal his identity.

On August 4, another letter was received

that started with the phrase,

"This is the Zodiac speaking."

Marking the first time the killer referred

to himself as the Zodiac.

On August 8, 1969 the code was cracked

by a couple in Salinas, CA.

It reads, "I like killing

because it is so much fun,

"it is more fun than killing

wild game in the forest
"because man is the most
dangerous animal of all to kill.

"Something gives me the

most thrilling experience,

"it is even better than getting

your rocks off with a girl.

"The best part of it is that when I die,

"I will be reborn in paradise

"and those I have killed

will become my slaves.

"I will not give you my name

"because you will try to slow down

"or stop my collecting

off slaves for afterlife."

- [Brent] Since when do

you get to keep slaves

in the afterlife when you kill someone?

- [Ryan] Well, apparently,

that's common knowledge in crazy town.

Also, this dude must've skipped

class the day they taught

run on sentences because

that shit was ridiculous.

- [Brent] Also this guy sounds like,

just the biggest bro douche ever, right?

Killing is better than getting

my nuts off with a girl?

Like, shut up.

- [Ryan] On September 27,

1969 in Napa, California,

22-year-old Cecelia Shepard

and 20-year-old Bryan Hartnell

were picnicking on the

shore of Lake Berryessa

when Cecelia saw a man hiding

behind a nearby tree and staring at her.

After some time, the man

came out from behind the tree

wearing an executioner
style hood over his head

with the Zodiac Killer

symbol on his chest.

He had a gun and a long

knife and used pre-cut rope

to tie up Cecelia and Bryan

before stabbing them repeatedly.

Cecelia would die at the hospital,

but Bryan Hartnell would survive,

despite being stabbed

six times in the back.

Bryan Hartnell described the

man as being five foot eight

to six feet tall, heavy set,

weighing about 225 to 250

pounds with dark brown hair

that he saw through the

eye holes in the mask.

A message was found on

the side of Bryan's car

with the Zodiac sign, the

dates of all three killings,

and the words, "by knife" written

below the September 27th date.

- [Brent] What did he

use to write on the car?

- [Ryan] Just a little

black paint, you know?

Maybe he went to Joan's

Crafts and supplies.

- [Brent] Right, Michaels.

- [Ryan] Michaels, he went to Michaels.

On October 11, 1969 just before 10 p.m.

in San Francisco, California

at the intersection of
Washington and Cherry

a cab driver Paul Stine was shot

in the head by his passenger.

A teenage girl from her home

across the street heard the shot

along with two other witnesses in her home

and got a good look at the man

as he wiped down the car and walked away.

They called the police

and described the man

as a white male between

25 to 30 years old.

Five foot eight to five foot nine tall,

stocky, with a reddish-brown crew cut

and heavy rimmed glasses.

A police car that was nearby

came quickly to the scene,

but the chaos of the situation

would strangely result

in the police dispatcher

incorrectly identifying the suspect

as an African American male.

- [Brent] (laughs) Classic!

Way to go, fucking San Francisco police.

- Yeah.
- Are you kidding me?

- [Ryan] Yeah, when I saw that

I was like, "God damn it."

- [Brent] Oh my lord.

- [Ryan] Anyways, what incorrect

identification would prove

to have disastrous consequences.

The police car driven by Officer Don Fouke

and Eric Zelms would come

upon a white male walking

on the sidewalk described by Officer Fouke

as five foot 10, 170 pounds,

about 40 years, wearing glasses

with reddish hair and a crew cut.

Very similar to the description

offered by the teenage girl.

However, because they were looking

for an African-American male,

Fouke and Zelms left the man alone.

- [Brent] Oh my god.

- [Ryan] Watching him

disappear into Presidio Park.

- This is it?
- Yeah.

Brutal right?

Right now we're coming up

to where the two officers

allegedly saw the Zodiac.

They turned left onto Jackson right here.

And they saw a white

guy walking right here.

So the officers think he

walked down to the park,

entered through here, and

that's where they lost him.

The Zodiac would later

comment on this interaction

in a later letter in detail.

Making it very likely that Fouke

and Zelms came into contact

with that nation's most

notorious serial killer
at the time without even knowing it.

A composite sketch would be drawn based

on the two descriptions

that would later become part

of a famous wanted poster.

- [Brent] Is this the

Ted Cruz wanted poster?

- [Ryan] Yeah, it is.

- [Brent] It is the one

that everyone going,

looks like Ted Cruz.

- [Ryan] Regardless,
the theory is ridiculous

because Ted Cruz wasn't even alive

when the Zodiac was killing people.

Case closed, it wasn't Ted Cruz

unless he's a fucking time traveler.

- [Brent] Unless he changed

his birth certificate, man.

Remember how obsessed

about Obama's birth certificate they were?

I want to see Ted Cruz's

real birth certificate

is all I'm saying.

- [Ryan] Another crucial piece of evidence

was a bloody finger print

discovered in the cab.

However, the Zodiac

also claims in a letter

that it was planted by him to

throw the cops off his trail.

Two days later the "San

Francisco Chronicle"

gets another letter that

claims responsibility
for the cab driver, Paul Stine's murder,

and includes a piece of

Stine's blood stained shirt.

Even more horrifying, the

letter also included quote,

"School children make nice targets,

"I think I shall wipe out

a school bus some morning.

"Just shoot out the front tire

and then pick off the kiddies

"as they come bouncing out," end quote.

He also later included diagrams of bombs

that could be used on buses.

- [Brent] Where is he
dropping these letters off?

How does he get these

letters to the press?

- [Ryan] I don't know.

Also, like the image of

the Zodiac sitting down

in his little desk getting

his, like, pen ready-

- [Brent] I mean he does seem

like he'd be into calligraphy.

- [Ryan] Maybe.

- [Brent] This guy seems crazy enough

that he's got a fucking quill pen.

- [Ryan] He has a letter-writing desk.

- [Brent] What's the name they

call letter-writing desks?

- [Ryan] Oh fuck, I don't-

- [Brent] There's a specific name.

- [Ryan] After this, a

Zodiac task force was created

so that multiple departments

could share info.
On April 20th, 1970,

a letter to the "San Francisco Chronicle"

included a cipher with the

sentence "my name is" blank.

Which would later become

a point of contention

in potential suspects.

The Zodiac would continue to send letters

before stopping in 1971.

Only to send his last letter in 1974

where he claims to have killed 37 people

and bizarrely reviews his

viewing of "The Exorcist,"

which he called, quote,

"The best satirical comedy

"that I have ever seen," end quote.

- [Brent] What? This guy.

- [Ryan] I can't imagine

why he felt the need

to write a Rotten Tomatoes

review in his last letter, but-

- [Brent] Because he had no friends,

the only people he could

talk to were the press

and the police.

- [Ryan] Do you think he would

be a frequency Yelper today

if he were still alive?

- [Brent] Oh, he'd definitely

be a fucking one star Yelper.

- [Ryan] One star. (laughs)

Skipping forward, in 2002,

the San Francisco Police

Department was able
to extract a partial genetic profile

from a Zodiac letter from

the saliva on the stamp.

The profile was not enough

to conclusively identify

a single person, but enough to

eliminate potential suspects.

And with that, let's take

a look at the suspects

with the most circumstantial

evidence against them.

The first theory is from

Gary Steward who believes

that his father, Earl Van Best

Jr. was the Zodiac Killer.

Gary Steward published a book called,

"The Most Dangerous Animal of All"

that presents this theory.

Earl Van Best Jr. bears

and uncanny resemblance

to the composite sketch

from the Paul Stine killing.

His name also matches

the number of characters

in the my name is cipher.

Finally, Stewart says a handwriting expert

is virtually certain
that Best's handwriting

on his marriage license

matches the writing

of the Zodiac Killer.

Now, here are reasons why

Best may not be the Zodiac.

According to an
administrator at the church

where Best's marriage

certificate came from,
the handwriting is that of the
priest and not Best himself,

making the match that

was virtually certain

implicate the priest rather than Best.

- [Brent] Where do you

even go to get handwriting,

like, certification skills?

Probably from the fucking

University of Phoenix.

- [Ryan] (laughs) Oh shit!

What did the University

of Phoenix do to you?

- [Brent] They're like

a for-profit college.

- [Ryan] Are they?

Furthermore, Best only

matches the description

of the Zodiac at the Paul Stine killing,

but not the heavy set,

large-faced description

of the Zodiac in the

previous three killings.

Gary Steward also tried

to test his father's DNA

against the recovered 2002 Zodiac DNA,

but investigators never complied,

with their reason being not

enough evidence to make a case.

Gary Stewart has maintained

this is a police cover up.

- [Brent] Number, why did they say

there was not enough evidence to comply?

- [Ryan] Yeah, why not just

test against the DNA though?

- [Brent] Yeah, does it

like cost money or like,

what's the reason not-

- [Ryan] Maybe that DNA

lab is super popping, like,

they just had no time

for theoretical tests.

The second and most famous

theory is from Robert Graysmith

who believes that Arthur Leigh

Allen is the Zodiac Killer.

This theory is the basis for

the 2007 film, "The Zodiac,"

starring Jake Gyllenhaal

as Robert Graysmith.

- [Brent] Who is that?

Internet sleuth? Like us?

- [Ryan] He's definitely

more credentialed than us.

- [Brent] Okay. He has a card.

(both laughing)

- Ryan Actually, Robert Graysmith

was a political cartoonist

at the "San Francisco

Chronicle" that became obsessed

with finding the Zodiac.

After a decade of personal research,

Graysmith wrote two

books entitled "Zodiac"

and "Zodiac Unmasked"

that heavily implicate Arthur

Leigh Allen as the Zodiac.

Here's Graysmith's case

for Arthur Leigh Allen.

The day of the third Zodiac

attack at Lake Berryessa

in 1969, Allen told his family

he was going scuba diving
at Lake Berryessa.

Later that evening, he would

come home covered in blood

with a bloody knife in his car.

And if you'll recall,

the Zodiac murdered Cecilia

Shepard that day with a knife.

Two years later, in 1971,

one of Allen's friends,

Don Cheney said that Allen

called himself the Zodiac

before the killer publicly

referred to himself

as the Zodiac.

- [Brent] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

So, he literally called

himself "the Zodiac"?

- [Ryan] I guess, that's true.

- [Brent] Hey Ryan, call

me the Zodiac from now on,

that's my nickname.

- [Ryan] How do you even work

that into a conversation?

- [Brent] I know, right?

- [Ryan] The only time I can think of is

when you go bowling

and you write your name

on like the frames.

Write your name as the Zodiac.

- [Brent] Right.

- [Ryan] And then your

friends will be like,

"Who the fuck wrote their

name as the Zodiac?"

Could you imagine if he's like

super douchey about it too?

Like, he won't respond

unless you call him Zodiac.

They're like, "Arthur, you wanna go out?"

He'd be like, "That's

not my name." (sighs)

- [Brent] Ugh!

- [Ryan] "Okay, Zodiac do

you want to go out?" Okay.

Cheney also said Allen told him

he was planning to hunt people

with a gun and a flashlight tied to it.

- [Brent] What? You tell your friend that.

- Ryan I know.

- [Brent] He just laughs,

says, "Oh, Zodiac,

"You're such a funny guy."

- [Ryan] You're such a trickster!

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] As a result of this information,

the police would interview

Allen a second time

where Allen would say

his favorite book is,

"The Most Dangerous Game."

A book about a man who hunted humans.

And a book referenced by the Zodiac

in his first letter to the press.

To add insult to injury,

Allen was also wearing

a Zodiac brand watch

which contained the same

symbol the killer used.

The police searched Allen's trailer home

where they found small dissected animals

in a freezer, bloody
knives, and sexual devices,

but no direct evidence of the murders.

- [Brent] That's a weird

thing to keep in your freezer.

Cut up animals and sexual devices?

- [Ryan] Oh no, the sexual

devices weren't in the freezer,

that would be weird.

No one wants a frosty

dildo inserted into them.

In 1974, Allen was convicted

of child molestation,

a crime for which he

spent three years in jail.

Coincidentally, during this time

no Zodiac letters were received.

In 1987, a San Jose jail

inmate named Ralph Spinelli

told police that Allen admitted to him

that he murdered Paul Stine.

In August 1991, Vallejo

detective George Bawart

interviews Mike Mageau,

the man who survived

the second Zodiac attack

and saw the Zodiac without his mask on.

When shown a lineup of photographs,

Mageau picked out the man who shot him,

it was Arthur Leigh Allen.

- [Brent] What?

- [Ryan] With this info,

the police search Allen's home again

and this time they find
formulas for bombs,

constructed bombs, and tapes

about the Zodiac Killer.

They interview Allen again

and he says he knows nothing.

- [Brent] Wait, wait,

wait, they found bombs

and/or plans for bombs in

his house and they don't,

they're not able to detain him?

- [Ryan] The Zodiac put diagrams of bombs

in his fucking letters.

- [Brent] Right, and he

talked about putting bombs

on children's school bus

and this guy molested a kid.

- [Ryan] And there was fucking tapes

about the Zodiac Killer,

this guy's reliving his greatest hits

at home via audio book?

What the fuck?

- [Brent] He just a said what?

"Plead the fifth" at this point, he said?

- [Ryan] One year later in August 1992,

Allen is found at home dead

from a suspected heart attack.

And with that, let's

transition into reasons

why Allen may not be the Zodiac Killer.

Allen's DNA was compared

against the 2002 DNA extracted

from stamp saliva on a Zodiac letter,

it was not a match.

However, it's also believed
that Allen had a habit

for letting others lick

his stamps instead of him,

which would explain why the

profile didn't match him.

- [Brent] But I don't even like thinking

that this guy was smart

enough to think that.

- [Ryan] In my opinion, that's

an Olympic level stretch.

Additionally, in 1971 the police

took Allen's finger prints,

but the prints did not match

the bloody prints recovered

from the Paul Stine crime scene.

They also had Allen undergo

handwriting analysis,

but the handwriting did not

match the Zodiac either.

Allen also does not look like the sketch

from the Paul Stine

killing in the slightest,

but it's worth mentioning

that Arthur Leigh Allen was

considered the prime suspect

for the Zodiac for most

involved police departments

and is widely believed to be the Zodiac.

The third theory is

from retired Escalon, California

Police Officer Harvey Hines

who believes Lawrence Kaye,

more commonly known by the surname Kane,

was the Zodiac Killer.

Kane was involved in

a car accident in 1962
which resulted in brain damage
influencing his behavior.

One psychologist claimed Kane was quote,

"Losing the ability

"to control
self-gratification," end quote.

Additionally, Kane can

be see in the Zodiac's

my name is cipher.

And in that cipher there are three eights

with circles around them,

three times eight is 24

and Kane was born in 1924.

- [Brent] Okay, that means nothing to me.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I didn't think

you would like that one.

- [Brent] Well, I mean,

it's just like reaching

at straws at that point.

- [Ryan] Yeah, additionally,

the Zodiac's second victim,

Darlene Ferrin, had a sister

who said Kane was the man

who followed and harassed Darlene

in the weeks leading

up to Darlene's murder.

In the 1969 Paul Stine murder,

the man suspected to be the Zodiac seen

by officer Don Fouke was

described as 35 to 45 years old.

Kane was 45 in 1969.

Officer Don Fouke said in 1987

that of the hundreds of pictures

over the past 20 years he had been shown,

Kane was quote, "The closest
of them as he remembered

"the killer," end quote.

Kane also lived a six minutes walk away

from Mason and Geary,

the location where cab

driver, Paul Stine was thought

to have picked up his killer.

In fact, an excerpt from

Vallejo PD states, quote,

"Investigation has placed

Kaye in the locales

"where several of the Zodiac's victims

"either lived or were killed," end quote.

To piggy back on that sentiment,

in 1970 Kane moved to South Lake Tahoe

and that year a possible Zodiac victim

that I didn't discuss

earlier named Donna Lass

disappears in South Lake Tahoe.

Donna Lass also coincidentally worked

at the same South Lake

Tahoe hotel as Kane.

- [Brent] That's crazy.

- [Ryan] But the last

and arguably most damning evidence Kane is

about another Zodiac interaction

I haven't discussed yet.

On the night of March

22, 1970, on Highway 132

near Patterson, California,

Kathleen Johns and her baby were tricked

into riding in the Zodiac's car.

After entering the car,

the Zodiac told Johns

that he was going to kill her

and throw her baby out after her.

As the Zodiac was about to make a turn,

Johns jumped out of the car

and ran into a nearby field

with her baby and escaped.

Despite some believing

this is an unconfirmed Zodiac encounter,

others believe a letter

confirms this incident.

Quote, "So I now have a little list,

"starting with the woman plus her baby

"that I gave a rather

interesting ride," end quote.

The reason I bring this encounter up

is because Kathleen Johns,

unlike most surviving Zodiac victims,

had extended face time with the Zodiac.

This is important

because when shown a

line up of photographs,

Kathleen Johns was reportedly able

to pick out the man who tried to kill her.

It was Lawrence Kane.

- Brent I mean, that's some

pretty strong evidence.

- [Ryan] But now let's look at evidence

that proves Kane isn't the Zodiac.

I couldn't find an instance of a DNA test

against the recovered 2002 sample,

nor could I find a record of

Kane's fingerprint being tested
against the fingerprint found
at the Paul Stine crime scene.

Furthermore, Kane's
handwriting was not a match

to the Zodiac's, but also

could not be ruled out.

Additionally, Kane, much

like Earl Van Best Jr.,

matches the description of the killer

at the Paul Stine murder scene,

but does not match the

large heavyset description

of the Zodiac in the

first three crime scenes.

Now that you've heard all the stories,

who do you think did it?

- I think those two at the

end are the most plausible.

But I think the real

answer would have to be

there was one person and

then a copycat, as well.

- It's possible, in my mind,

Arthur Leigh Allen was the killer

for the first three, stopped,

and then Lawrence Kane

took over as a copycat.

- [Brent] Oh, well then yeah.

- It seems like to me
he wanted to get caught,

he was like asking to get caught almost.

- He was playing that line.

He was tired with like,

"Oh, I've killed someone

"and gotten away with it," he's like,

"How far can I push it, that line?"

- That's true, yeah.

Regardless, the case remains unsolved.

And probably will stay

unsolved, unfortunately.

(eerie music)

Trying to find this crime scene.

No idea where the hell

we're going right now.

Ah, fuck it!

Do you keep getting hit by

spiky things in your socks?

- No.

Calling all people right to us.

- Seriously, dude, let's fucking just clap

a little bit louder.

This week on "Buzzfeed Unsolved,"

did you see that fucking shadow?

- No, there's no shadow.

- [Ryan] That, for sure you heard that.

Fuck you, you heard that for sure, right?

- (laughing) No.

- [Ryan] You fucking for

sure heard that shit, right?

- There's nothing, Ryan!

- Why is the back door open?

- Our headlights are on.

- We're on the side of a gravel road

in the middle of the fucking night.

- I heard crickets chirping and frogs.

- Let's just fucking skedaddle on home.

- Statistically speaking, though,

we're probably super safe right now.

Did the killer live around here?

We're right in the middle of this farm.

Is this like his farm?

Is he like no trespassers.

- We're not doing this

right now, we're going home.

We'll be safe, I'm not died.

- Alright, "Buzzfeed
Unsolved," I'm cutting.

- This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved,"

we cover the mysterious disappearance

of the Sodder children.

Uh, you look enthralled,

you look really excited.

- I can't wait.

- I think you're about

to have your mind blown.

- We'll see.

- Okay, cool, let's get into it.

The year was 1945, on the

night before Christmas,

in Fayetteville, West Virginia.

George and Jennie Sodder, along

with nine of their children,

were asleep when a fire

started in the house

at around 1:00 a.m.

George, Jennie, and four

of their children escaped,

Sylvia, Marion, John, and George, Jr.

The children that remained in the house

were Maurice, Martha,

Louis, Jennie, and Betty.
And the five of them shared
two bedrooms between them,

both rooms upstairs.

George broke back into

the house to save the rest

of the children, but the

staircase was on fire.

When he went outside

to retrieve his ladder,

it was missing from its normal spot.

And both of his coal trucks,

which he wanted to use

to park outside and climb on top of,

were strangely not starting.

- [Shane] Don't park your

coal truck by a fire.

That's a bad idea.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I mean,

I can't imagine there was

coal in the truck at the time.

- [Shane] Oh, okay.

- [Ryan] I'm sure it was

empty of coal, I think-

- [Shane] Well, I don't

know, it's a coal truck!

- [Ryan] He just climbs

on top of a pile of coal.

- [Shane] He's all just

covered in flammable coal,

jumping into a house, bad idea.

- [Ryan] Marion, one of the

children who escaped the fire,

ran to the neighbor's house

to call the fire department.

But the operator didn't respond,

and when a different

neighbor attempted to call

she also got no response

from the operator.

That same neighbor actually drove to town

and found the fire chief,

F.J. Morris, in person.

But even though the fire department

was only located 2.5

miles away from the home,

the firefighters bizarrely

didn't reach the Sodder house

until 8:00 a.m., seven

hours after the fire began.

And by the time they arrived,

the house was literally ash.

- [Shane] Time to
re-evaluate your staff there.

(both laughing)

- [Ryan] You really see where

your tax money's going there.

- [Shane] That's not like,

"Oh boy, we really dropped

the ball on that one."

That's like, firefighters

from Florida could've

driven up there in time.

- [Ryan] IN their defense,

it was Christmas Eve.

- [Shane] Oh, it's fine if

people die on Christmas Eve.

- [Ryan] So like, two, they tried calling.

I'm not saying I'm condoning them

for being seven hours late

to a fire that was 2.5 miles away.

- [Shane] It's just not a, not great.

- [Ryan] In fact, I'm pretty sure

I could run that in probably
about an hour, at least.

- [Shane] I could spit

the fire out in that time.

- [Ryan] I could probably

chug a beer and run that.

- [Shane] I could just spit on the fire.

- [Ryan] Authorities scavenged

the ashes of the fire,

looking for the remains of the

five missing Sodder children,

but nothing was found

and they were presumed

dead due to the fire.

The fire chief, F.J. Morris,

suggested that the fire

may have been so hot that

it completely cremated

the children's bodies,

including their bones.

While that theory sounds reasonable,

it is not entirely accurate,

because when flesh is burned away,

bones are still typically left behind,

likely in fragmented form.

Additionally, there was

no smell of burning flesh

reported during or after the fire.

The cause of the fire was

deemed to be bad wiring

in the house, and in the week after,

the Fayetteville coroner's

office issued death certificates

for the five Sodder children.

The basement of the house still remained

and George would later use
a bulldozer to cover it up

with five feet of dirt to create

a memorial to his children.

Soon after the fire, George

and Jennie began to suspect

their children were not

dead, but instead kidnapped,

believing the fire was

deliberately set as a diversion

and not the result of faulty wiring.

In fact, George had

actually had the wiring

in his house checked earlier

that fall by the power company,

which had deemed the wiring

in safe, working order.

- [Shane] Who said the wiring was faulty.

- [Ryan] Somebody in the coroner's office.

You'll see why they may have

done this later, but anyways.

- [Shane] Oh, okay.

- [Ryan] But before we dig into the theory

that the children were kidnapped,

let's discuss George's personal history

to provide some context.

George Sodder had immigrated from Italy,

and Fayetteville, where the Sodders lived,

had a small but engaged

Italian immigrant community.

A community that George was very vocal in,

especially about his

disdain for Mussolini,

sparking a few heated

debates in the community.

George also reportedly never

revealed why he left Italy,

leaving some to speculate

that he may have been involved

in some shady business in Italy.

Many believed that either of these reasons

may have led to the kidnapping

of George's children.

Let's examine some curious occurrences

that support a possible kidnapping.

In the fall, just before the house fire,

a life insurance salesman

came to the house.

And when he saw that his sale

wasn't going to be successful,

he became infuriated, yelling at George.

Quote, "Your goddamn house

is going up in smoke,

"and your children are

going to be destroyed.

"You're going to be paid

for the dirty remarks

"you have been making about

Mussolini," end quote.

- (laughing) Right, I think we solved it.

All right, well, it's

been fun, see you later.

I will set this house on fire

and your children are going to die.

Who could it be, who could have done this?

- Seems a little on the nose for me.

He just listed every

single aspect of the case

in a nice, easy laid-out fashion.

- House on fire, kids

are gonna go up, yeah.
- It was like, the third
act of a student film

when they had to wrap everything up

in exposition and dialog.

- Yeah, oh shit, it's due tomorrow!

- [Ryan] In the days

leading up to the fire,

two of the surviving

Sodder sons witnessed a man

watching the younger

Sodder children come home

from school on Highway 21.

Another suspicious occurrence

happened that night.

On the night of the fire,

at around 12:30 a.m.,

the phone rang, and Jennie

got out of bed to answer.

This would result in an

important observation.

Jennie noticed the lights

were still on downstairs.

As she started to fall back asleep,

she heard a loud bang on the roof,

followed by the sound

of something rolling.

And an hour later,

she woke to the smell of smoke

entering her room downstairs.

The detail that is interesting

is the fact that the lights were still on.

If the fire had been

caused by faulty wiring,

as had been suggested, then that meant

there wouldn't have

been power to the house,
meaning that the lights
shouldn't have been working.

But Jennie saw that they were on

about an hour before the smoke.

And later, the Sodders would claim

that they saw the lights on

while the fire was occurring as well.

Additionally, a witness
to the fire claimed

that they saw a man

removing a block and tackle,

typically used for

removing engines from cars,

perhaps explaining why

both of George's trucks

weren't working that night.

- [Shane] Did they, as their post-mortem,

did they look in the cars to see

if there were engines in them?

No, huh.

- [Ryan] No, no, I mean, like, look,

I don't think he removed

the engines completely

because it's not like he

could like waddle away

with really heavy engines.

I think he just tampered

with it, you know,

just pulled a couple of

wires here and there.

- [Shane] Okay.

- [Ryan] This is all a possibility.

- [Shane] It sure it.

- [Ryan] I'm just presenting

the case here, all right.
After the fire, when the family visited

the memorial George had set up,

Sylvia found a hard

rubber object in the yard.

An object that Jennie believed

may have caused the loud bang

that woke her that night.

But even more interesting was the fact

that after further inspection from George,

he believed the object was

a napalm pineapple bomb,

similar to those used

in the war at the time.

- [Shane] I mean, it sounds like

someone set the house on fire.

- [Ryan] Yeah, it clearly does.

I think we have enough here to say

that someone probably

set the house on fire,

probably wasn't false wiring.

With all these strange occurrences,

and not believing that

the fire could have burned

her children's bones to ash,

Jennie began to experiment

by burning different types

of animal bones, all

of which left remains.

She spoke to a crematorium employee

who told her that in cremation,

bones were left behind

even after bodies burned

at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit for two hours.

And the Sodder home only

burned for about 45 minutes.

Also noteworthy is the fact that remains

of household appliances
were found in the rubble,

meaning not everything was ash.

- Mm-hmm.
- So clearly,

there should've been bones left.

- [Shane] Should've been bone. Sure.

- [Ryan] There have also

been reported sightings

of the children.

One occurred that night while

the fire was still burning.

A woman claimed to see

the children in a car

that drove by while the

fire was still raging.

15 miles west of Fayetteville,

a woman who operated a tourist stop

told police that she saw the children

the morning after the fire.

Quote, "I served them breakfast.

"There was a car with

Florida license plates

"at the tourist court, too," end quote.

- Nice of her.
- Yeah.

- Giving them breakfast.

- Yeah, I mean, she's just.

- Nice to have breakfast.

- Okay, yeah, I agree, breakfast is nice.

I enjoy bacon.

- Agree to agree.
- What are we doing here?

At a hotel in nearby Charleston,

a woman reported seeing

four of the five children

about a week after the fire.

Here's her statement to the police.

Quote, "The children were

accompanied by two women

"and two men, all of Italian extraction.

"I do not remember the exact date.

"I tried to talk to the

children in a friendly manner,

"but the men appeared hostile

and refused to allow me

"to talk to these children.

"I sensed that I was being frozen out

"and so I said nothing more.

"They left early the next morning."

A few years later, George saw a photo

of New York City

schoolchildren in a newspaper

and one of the kids looked like

his missing daughter, Betty.

George drove all the way

to New York to investigate.

But once he tracked down

the child's parents,

they declined to speak with him.

In 1947, two years after the fire,

George and Jennie attempted

to involve the FBI,

who offered to help, but in

a curious turn of events,

the Fayetteville police

and fire departments
both denied their offer.

What do you gain in

denying to help the FBI?

All you have to do

is give a couple interviews

maybe, like, what?

- [Shane] There's a lot of paperwork.

- [Ryan] How busy is this

fire department? Probably not-

- [Shane] They're probably not that busy

but that's probably how they like it.

- [Ryan] I think there's some

shady shit going on there,

but that's just my opinion.

George and Jennie turned

to a private investigator
named C.C. Tinsley.

- [Shane] Yeah, C.C. Tinsley's here.

- [Ryan] That does sound like-

- [Shane] What'd you say?

NO bones, huh? Hm.

Sounds like a case for C.C. Tinsley.

- [Ryan] Apparently
they got an investigator

from a time machine.

They dropped way back in a

time machine, went back in the-

- [Shane] It's 194, of course he's-

- [Ryan] That's not how,

they did not speak like that.

That's not how they spoke in 1945.

- [Shane] Oh yeah. Yes,

that's how they spoke.

- [Ryan] One suspicious

revelation occurred

when Tinsley discovered that

a member of the coroner's jury

who decided the Sodder's

house fire was an accident

was the same life insurance salesman

who had threatened George

earlier in the fall.

- [Shane] Who? Who put together this jury?

The coroner?

We're putting together a jury

to investigate this crime.

Can you wrangle up all the,

maybe some lunatic salesmen?

- [Ryan] By the way,

is there no police officer

that knows how crime works?

Like, how did they not interview

this life salesman man?

Like?
- I don't know.

I'm telling you, this, nobody knows

how to do their job in this town.

- [Ryan] It's unbelievable,

like, uh, so you're telling me,

he screamed in your face,

that he's gonna murder your family?

- [Shane] Interesting.

- [Ryan] Sounds like a good dude to me,

I don't know what you're talking about.

- [Shane] Yeah, let's

put him on that jury.

- [Ryan] Another interesting find occurred

when Tinsley interviewed

townspeople about the fire.
Tinsley heard a rumor
from the town minister

that the fire chief

had been telling people

that he'd actually found a heart

in the ashes of the Sodder home,

and that he'd hidden it in a dynamite box

and buried it where the home once stood.

- [Shane] Why is the

minister telling rumors?

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] Tinsley persuaded the fire chief

to show him where it was buried.

Once dug up, the heart

was actually beef liver,

and had never been in a fire.

- [Shane] (laughs) Oh, darn

it, I, that's my darn sandwich.

No wonder that sandwich

tasted so bad the other day,

I mixed 'em up.

- [Ryan] Why the hell the chief did this

was apparently to provide some

closure to the Sodder family.

I guess you could say

that's a heartfelt gesture.

- [Shane] Ryan, no. No, no, no.

- Oh, shit man.

See you guys later.

- Nope, sit down.

- [Ryan] In August 1949, the

Sodders hired a pathologist

named Oscar B. Hunter,

who excavated the dirt

that covered the Sodder basement

and the remains of the house.

He found four shards of human vertebrae

and sent this to the

Smithsonian for analysis.

They hypothesized that the bones

were from a 16 to 17-year-old person.

However, the oldest missing Sodder child

was a 14-year-old boy,

making it improbable

that the bones belonged to him.

They also stated that

there was no evidence

that the bones had been exposed to fire,

and that the bones likely

originated from the dirt

George Sodder used to fill the basement

rather than the remains of the house.

This was before DNA

investigation had come into play,

and according to the Smithsonian,

the bones were given back to George Sodder

but their current whereabouts

remains a mystery.

- [Shane] What did he do with them, just-

- [Ryan] Exactly, no one knows.

Huge tragedy that we can't

DNA analyze those bones

to see if they belong

to the Sodder Children.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] After the Smithsonian

revealed their findings,

West Virginia Governor Okey L. Patterson

called a hearing in the

state capitol building

in Charleston, West Virginia,

where he officially declared

the Sodder case to be closed,

telling George and Jennie

that their search was,

quote, "Hopeless," end quote.

This led to George and

Jennie setting up a billboard

on Route 16 advertising
their missing children,

where it remained for nearly 40 years.

- [Shane] 40 years? They're tenacious.

- [Ryan] I mean, to be
fair, if it was my kids,

I wouldn't stop and I'd-

- [Shane] Yeah, I guess

if five of your kids are, have vanished.

- [Ryan] Oh, and also a

salesman screamed in my face,

"I'm gonna burn your house down

"and murder your family,"

yeah, I think I would

probably keep searching.

The billboard kept the story alive.

It mentioned details such as

the children being kidnapped,

the fact that the faulty

wiring did not cause the fire,

the fact that there was

no bones or residue found,

and lastly, accused the law

officers involved of a cover-up.

Quote, "What was the motive

of the law officers involved?

"What did they have to

gain by making us suffer

"all these years of injustice?

"Why did they lie and force

us to accept those lies?"

End quote.

People around town had various theories.

Some believed the mafia had been involved.

Others believed the

children were now in Italy,

or that they had been

sold to an orphanage.

The family received a letter

from a woman in St. Louis

saying the oldest

missing daughter, Martha,

was in a convent there in St. Louis.

Someone in Florida also

said the missing children

were living with Jennie's

distant relatives.

And the ever-diligent George Sodder

investigated all of these

tips, but each came up empty.

Another hopeful tip came in

1968, 23 years after the fire,

in the form of a photograph sent to Jennie

specifically addressed
to her, not the family.

There was no return address on the letter,

but it was postmarked in Kentucky.

The photo was a man in his mid-20s.

George and Jennie believed

this could be their son, Louis,

who was nine at the time of the fire.

The man in the picture had

the same dark brown eyes,
dark curly hair, strong straight nose,

and upwardly tilting left eyebrow.

On the back, it had a handwritten note.

Quote, "Louis Sodder,

I love brother Frankie,

lil boys, A90132 or 35," end quote.

They hired a private

detective to go to Kentucky

and find him, but strangely,

the detective was never heard from again.

- [Shane] That, I think

that's the first time

I've ever heard of a

detective going missing.

That's like a fish drowning.

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] And you know

what's strange about this

on the internet,

nobody seems to really

care about this point.

- [Shane] When a detective goes missing,

you've got some pretty

powerful adversaries.

I'd say it's time to quit the game.

- [Ryan] Some on the

internet have theorized

the detective took the money and ran.

But nobody knows what

happened to him for sure.

- [Shane] I don't think the detective

would've taken the money and run though,

because if you're a private

eye, unless it was a shit,
like if it was enough to survive
for the rest of his life.

- [Ryan] Oh, that's true,

yeah, why would he, yeah.

I mean he can't-

- [Shane] He's probably

built up a nice client base,

he's got to throw away his Rolodex.

- [Ryan] And it's not like they

gave him a million dollars.

It was probably like 5,000,

that's what the poster said.

- [Shane] Enough for a few sandwiches.

- [Ryan] Yeah, that's a lot.

I mean, those are some big

sandwiches but yeah, point taken.

George Sodder passed away shortly after

in 1969 at the age of 74.

And Jennie Sodder passed away

in 1989 at the age of 85.

Sylvia, who was two at the time,

is the last remaining Sodder child alive.

She maintains that her

siblings did not die

in the fire that night.

Jennie Henthorn, Sylvia's daughter,

told the "Times West Virginian"

to post any information on websleuths.com.

Quote, "My mom promised my grandmother

"that she would never let the story die.

"That's what my brother and

I are doing now," end quote.

After all these years, the

question still remains,

what really happened

to the Sodder children

that one fateful night?

Was this truly the result

of a tragic house fire?

Or were the children actually kidnapped?

Hopefully, for the sake

of the remaining family,

all of these questions will be answered.

But for now, the case remains unsolved.

I do think that there was

some foul play at hand here.

- Something's going on,

someone took those kids.

- Do you think they're still alive today?

- Maybe.

- Because they're still

out there, I think,

I believe they're out there.

- They would have to be, right?

If you have a parent who ever told you

that they were stolen in a fire

and given a wonderful

breakfast the next day,

let us know.

- Ah, you just.

(eerie music)

- I'm just glad you didn't

blame it on me, at least.

No ghosts here, no aliens.

- I mean, can you rule out

that they were abducted?

- No.

- That's what I wanted to hear.

It kills you, look at it.

Look at your face.

You can't stand it, can you?

I can see your jaw's clenching. (laughing)

- This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved,"

we cover the controversial

death of Michelle Von Emster.

Which may involve one of

the most deadly suspects

we've ever covered.

- Ooh.

- With that being said, let's get into it.

On Friday, April 15th 1994,

in San Diego, California,

on Sunset Cliffs, two

surfers noticed seagulls

perched on top of what

appeared to be floating kelp.

Upon closer inspection, they

noticed that it was, in fact,

the body of Michelle Von Emster,

floating facedown in a kelp bed.

It's a pretty beautiful location.

- Kelpy.

- Kelpy, but what a terrible thing

that happened in such a beautiful place.

Eventually, the body was taken

to San Diego lifeguard

headquarters at 4:00 p.m.

Michelle was found naked,

wearing only a brass

bracelet and two rings.

She had a butterfly

tattoo on her shoulder,

and had long brown hair.

Medical examiner Robert
Engel examined the body

directly upon arrival to

the lifeguard headquarters

and reported, quote,

"Large, tearing type wounds

"with missing tissue," end quote

as the body was missing

most of it's right leg.

- [Shane] That's a shark, baby.

I've seen "Jaws" at least

six times, that's a shark.

- [Ryan] Well, not so fast.

- [Shane] Huh?

- [Ryan] Don't jump to conclusions.

- [Shane] I'm jumping,

I've jumped, I've landed.

Shark, it's a shark.

- [Ryan] Just keep in mind,

things may not be what they appear.

- [Shane] Huh?

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] One thing worthy of note is

that he believed Michelle had not been

in the water a long time.

Although he did not claim a

cause of death in his report,

the consensus on the boat

was that this was most

likely a shark attack.

One day later, on April 16, 1994,

a formal autopsy was performed

by San Diego Medical

Examiner Brian Blackbourne.
Head's up, this is about
to get pretty brutal here.

- Okay.
- In this description.

I'm saying this 'cause these details

will become relevant

later, but it's rough.

In addition to large tearing type wounds,

the right leg was missing from

the middle of the thigh down.

Her neck was broken, quote,

"As if she'd been in a

car wreck" end quote,

and had broken ribs, scrapes, bruises,

and contusions on the face.

Sand was found

in Von Emster's mouth,

throat, lungs, and stomach.

- [Shane] It's too much sand.

- [Ryan] That's a lot of sand.

- [Shane] I don't want any,

you don't want any sand anywhere.

- [Ryan] That's gonna come in big later,

so remember that.

- [Shane] Okay, all right,

I'll remember it, sand.

- [Ryan] Furthermore, the report concluded

that Von Emster had been alive

when these injuries

were inflicted upon her.

According to Blackbourne,
Michelle Von Emster

was last seen at 8:00 p.m.,

which Blackbourne used
in establishing his timeline,

and placed Michelle in

the water at midnight.

Blackbourne arrived at the conclusion

that it was a shark

attack because lifeguards,

harbor police, and local marine biologists

at Scripps Institute told him so.

According to him, Michelle was attacked

by a great white shark,

forcing her to the bottom of the ocean,

where she broke her

neck and swallowed sand.

And then died from

blood loss and drowning.

And when you briefly look at the details,

that seems highly plausible.

- [Shane] No, it doesn't.

- [Ryan] So you switched now.

You don't think it's a shark?

- [Shane] Yeah, this is bologna.

I'm flip-flopping again.

- [Ryan] Let's look at a

couple things that don't add up

in regards to Michelle
dying due to a shark attack.

First off, Medical

Examiner Brian Blackbourne,

the man who concluded it was

an attack by a Great White,

had never seen a death caused

by a shark attack before,

and neither had anybody who saw the body.

The experts that

Blackbourne consulted with
at Scripps Institute never saw the body.

Instead, Blackbourne came to

Scripps Institute himself,

making the Institute's assessment

of Michelle's cause of death

questionable, to say the least.

- [Shane] Wait, so he
hadn't even seen a death

by shark, before?

- [Ryan] No, so he'd never

seen a death by a shark attack

and the experts that he conferred

with at Scripps Institute,

the Oceanology Institute,

he didn't bring them in

to have them look at the body.

He just went over there himself

and told them what had happened.

That's called being not thorough.

- [Shane] No, no, not at all.

- [Ryan] Additionally,
many experts do not think

this was a great white shark attack,

including, Ralph Collier,

the leading expert

on Pacific Coast white

shark behavior and ecology.

After seeing the remains

of Michelle's leg bone,

Collier said, quote,

"When a white shark

bites off part of a limb,

"the break is clean, almost

like you put it on a table saw.

"What remained of Michelle's

femur was anything but.
"It looked like what happens
when you get a piece of bamboo

"and whittle it down to

a point with a knife.

"I've looked at close

to 100 photos of cases

"that I have reviewed over the years,

"and I've never seen any bones

"that came to a point," end quote.

- [Shane] A little beside the

point, but very impressive

on the great white shark's behalf,

that they can do such a clean bite.

- [Ryan] Well, it's a powerful animal.

- [Shane] Yeah, hell yeah it is.

- [Ryan] I mean, it's not a bear,

but it's a powerful animal.

- It can certainly kill a bear

hands down, if you dropped-

- It definitely couldn't.

- A bear in the ocean.

- No, if a bear -

- No, no.
- We've been over this before.

The bear is the most

deadly animal of all time.

- No, it's not.

- Yes, it is.

- No, it's not.

- Yes, it is.

- No, it's not.

- If you put a bear

on any playing field in the world, water-

- Nope, hippopotamus.
- No, fuck you, dude.

A bear's the most-

- Hippopotamus would kill

a bear in a heartbeat.

- [Ryan] You know what, we're getting the,

this is a different episode.

- Fuck you.
(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] Another thing that seems strange

was the notion that the sand

had entered Michelle's body

after her leg had been torn off.

Quote, "The damage would have

severed her femoral artery

"and she would have bled to death quickly.

"But for her to have sand in her stomach,

"she had to take a big gulping breath

"as she made contact with

the sand," end quote.

Here's one last thought

from Collier, quote,

"There are too many things in this case

"that are not consistent

"with white shark behavior," end quote.

- [Shane] He's the Richard

Dreyfuss of this "Jaws" story.

- [Ryan] Exactly.

- [Shane] This would be like if in "Jaws"

there was a guy going around

town just murdering people

and then yelling "Shark!"

- [Ryan] And then just

tossing them in the ocean.

- [Shane] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- [Ryan] In comes Richard

Dreyfuss with science.
- [Shane] Yeah, he's
like, "This is bullshit!"

(Ryan laughs)

- Another person against the notion

of a great white shark

attack is Richard Rosenblatt,

the Chairman of Scripps

Institute at the time,

who initially consulted

with medical examiner Brian

Blackbourne on the case

without seeing Michelle's body.

And when actually given the measurements

of Michelle's wounds, Rosenblatt

said that none of the marks

on Michelle's body were

caused by a white shark.

And furthermore, if she had

been bitten by a white shark,

they most likely would have

found a great white tooth

broken off into her body.

And no great white teeth

were found inside her body.

There were, however, bite

marks left by blue sharks,

who definitely did feed

on Michelle's body.

Pathologist Harry Bonnell,

who examined the case,

states that there was no evidence

these bites occurred before her death.

Another medical examiner, Glenn Wagner,

reexamined the case in 2008 and also felt

that her body had been scavenged by sharks

after her death.

One finally point to disprove
the theory of a shark attack

is the fact that

Michelle's leg was missing.

Here's another quote

from Scripps Institute

Chairman, Richard Rosenblatt.

Quote, "If a shark had taken the leg,

"it could only have been

a white shark," end quote.

So, if only a white shark

could've taken the leg,

and it has been proven unlikely

that a white shark was the culprit,

then it's reasonable to say

that a shark attack was

unlikely in general.

But, if that's true,

then what really happened

to Michelle Von Emster.

Let's look at some alternate theories

as to who or what
could've killed Michelle.

The first theory is that Michelle went

for a midnight, naked swim

and subsequently drowned.

This doesn't really look

like the area you would go to

for a midnight swim.

It's very rocky and kelpy.

This is not ideal swimming conditions.

Proponents of this theory believe Michelle

could've gotten caught

in a current or rip tide

and then knocked against the rocks,

where she died and was
fed upon by blue sharks.

A heavy impact with rocks

could explain the neck break.

However, it seems unlikely

that Michelle would go

for a midnight swim,

due to the fact that according to records,

the water would've been

too cold, at 59 degrees,

with the night air being 57 degrees.

In fact, Michelle was last seen wearing

a green trench coat at 8:00 p.m.

So obviously she was aware of the cold.

- [Shane] Did she have

anything under the trench coat?

That's a weird question.

(Ryan laughs)
Nevermind.

- [Ryan] Now wait a second.

(Ryan and Shane laugh)

You mean she was one

of those flasher guys?

- [Shane] Well, I thought

if she was gonna jump

into the ocean naked then

maybe she was walking around

with a trench coat specifically

because she was naked underneath.

- [Ryan] Holy shit, you're right.

- [Shane] You know. But probably not.

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

- [Ryan] I mean, it kinda makes sense

now that you put it that way.

- [Shane] Well, put it in the theory list.

- [Ryan] The second theory

is that Michelle died

as the result of a fall

from Sunset Cliffs.

A medical examiner for San Francisco said

that Michelle's neck,

rib, and pelvic injuries

were more consistent

with injuries from falls

or car accidents.

Sunset Cliffs is known as one

of the most beautiful

sight-seeing spots in San Diego.

But it's also known for

having crumbling sandstone,

and people have died in

the past in this spot.

- [Shane] To be fair,
it looks very dangerous.

You'd break your neck on that.

- [Ryan] But the injuries she sustained.

- Yeah, I don't think falling

from this would cause your leg

to fall off and sharpen to a point.

- Yeah, I could definitely see how someone

would fall off this.

I mean, it's very crumbled.

This is not a stable little ridge here.

I say, as I stand on top of it.

Some believe it was here

that Michelle could've

either intentionally jumped,

accidentally fell, been hit by a car,

or maybe Michelle was pushed off the edge.

Which brings us to our

third and final theory

that Michelle was murdered.

Let's go over some details

that fit that narrative.

The neighborhood Michelle lived

in at the time of her death

had a reputation for drugs and

was nicknamed the war zone.

The fact that Michelle was

found naked is also strange,

since I find it hard

to explain how a shark

or accidental drowning
victim would be naked.

Though, in addition to a
lifeguard once claiming

to have seen Michelle swimming naked,

a work acquaintance named Edwin Decker

would reveal in an interview

that Michelle had a hippie vibe

and had told him that she quote,

"Liked to surf naked," end quote.

- [Shane] This sounds like

a "Law and Order" interview.

Like they found the guy at

the local grocery store,

moving boxes around and he was like,

"Yeah, she had a hippie vibe to her.

"Yeah, I've seen her out there

"by the rocks, swimming naked."

- [Ryan] Also.

- [Shane] "What were you

doing out there sir?" "Uh."

- [Ryan] This guy was a bartender too.

So, in fact, he's probably,
same "Law and Order" episode,

he's cleaning glasses at the bar.

"Yeah, I've seen her before.

"She used to come here every Thursday."

- [Shane] "Yeah, that rings a bell or two.

"That shakes a tambourine."

- [Ryan] Although, her friends

never recalled her surfing.

And local surfers don't recall

ever seeing her surfing.

Perhaps one of the most suspicious details

is the fact that

Michelle's purse was found

about 2.5 miles away from her body,

in the sand on the base of the sea wall.

The purse contained Michelle's keys,

driver's license, makeup, pay stub,

and a fanny pack containing $27 in cash.

What's odd is the purse was discovered

on a heavily used stretch of beach.

Meaning it's unlikely that

her purse could sit there

for 24 hours without any of the money

or the purse itself being stolen.

This has led some to believe

that somebody hurt Michelle,

left her to die in the ocean,

and then planted the purse

to make it look like an accident.

Or maybe she was drowned.

As mentioned before,

Michelle would've had to

take a big gulping breath

to ingest the sand found in her lungs.

Experts mention this

only could've happened

at the bottom of the ocean.

But if someone were to have drowned her

in the shallow water

of the sandy shoreline,

that could perhaps explain the sand.

Either way, there are only

two suspects, both unofficial.

The first suspect is Edwin Decker,

a friend who worked as a bartender

next to Michelle's old

job at Rumors coffee shop.

Decker, if you recall,

was the one who claimed

Michelle told him quote,

"She liked to surf naked," end quote.

A fact that would conveniently explain

why she was found that way.

Decker also claims the night

before Michelle's death

he and her had drinks and had

flirted for weeks beforehand.

He also claims they

kissed in his apartment

after getting drinks,

and that Michelle left his

apartment at 5:00 a.m. in a cab.

Though, Decker also mentions

there was a friend sleeping

nearby them in his apartment that night.

Here's what Decker had

to say about Michelle.
"There was a total
intellectual connection.

"I felt there was an

emotional connection too,

"at least on my part there was,

"and we also had a physical connection.

"I was so bummed when a

couple of days went by

"and she hadn't called.

"I was about to give up

on the idea," end quote.

Later when he found out Michelle

had died in a shark attack,

he wrote and eventually

published this poem.

Quote-
- Oh, Jesus Christ, okay.

(Ryan laughs)

- Wait till you hear the poem.

(Shane groans)

- [Shane] He's accusing her

of, oh, she's a real hippie.

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] Quote, "The reports

said there was a tattoo,

"a butterfly on her shoulder

"which I remembered that night

"on my couch when I, like the shark,

"chewed on her lips and

took off her shirt."

- [Shane] What the fuck?

(Ryan laughs)

No, shame on him.

- [Ryan] It's not even a good poem.

It's just weird.

- [Shane] No, it's very strange.

- [Ryan] This sounds like

something a drunk man would say

as he's laying on the

sidewalk, just babbling.

- [Shane] I don't like that one bit.

- [Ryan] And the, like the

shark, chewed on her lips

and took off her shirt?

- [Shane] No, the shark

was not doing that, sir.

The shark is 10 times

less creepier than you.

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] Creepiness aside,

Decker actually teamed up

with an investigator around 2008

and wrote to the San

Diego Medical Examiner,

asking them to re-evaluate

Michelle's case,

which, obviously, wouldn't

be the first thing

on the to-do list of a person

who murdered the victim.

- [Shane] Gotta be honest,

that's the first thing I'd do.

- Really?
- Yeah.

- [Ryan] 'Cause you, because of the guilt,

is that what you're suggesting?

- [Shane] No, no, no,

'cause they'd be like,

"Well, it couldn't possibly be him."

- [Ryan] Nah, that's, I think that-

- [Shane] Yeah, if I was like,

"You better find this killer!"

- [Ryan] That's a movie

plot thing, that's not-

- [Shane] Yeah, I bet it's happened.

- [Ryan] The second suspect

was an unknown stalker

who had stalked Michelle

at her previous job

at Rumors coffee shop.

She reportedly left that

job to work a different job

at Cabrillo Stationary and Office Supply,

because she believed the unknown man

wouldn't stalk her there.

Michelle had mentioned that she

didn't know this man's name,

but that he rode a motorcycle.

Denise Knox, Michelle's former boss

at the Office Supply store,

recalled a day at the store

after Michelle's death,

when a man came in with a copy

of Michelle's autopsy report

to make additional copies.

In 2014, Knox told the "San Diego Reader,"

Quote, "The weird guy who wanted

"all those copies of her autopsy?

"He rode a motorcycle too," end quote.

So after hearing the theories,

what do you think happened?

Was this actually a

shark attack after all?

Was this a case of accidental drowning?

Did Michelle accidentally

or intentionally fall to her death?

Or, was this case more sinister

than it seems at surface level

and Michelle was horrifically murdered?

The tragic passing of Michelle Von Emster

will remain unsolved.

(eerie music)

- I'm putting it on the bartender.

That poem is unforgivable.

(Ryan laughs)

I feel like I need to take

a bath in hand sanitizer,

after listening to it.

- You deserve to be in jail

just from that poem alone.

- Yeah, poetry jail.

- This week on "BuzzFeed

Unsolved" we discuss the murders

of Nicole Brown Simpson

and Ronald L. Goldman.

Or as you may know it,

the case of O.J. Simpson,

who was Nicole's ex-husband,

a Hall of Fame running back in

the National Football League,

and the case's top suspect.

- Also, I was a little

boy when this happened.

- But you do know a fair amount.

- Yeah. I mean for anyone

our age, he's just-

- Yeah, I'd actually never

even knew he played football.

I just knew him as the guy who

probably murdered somebody.
- Yeah.

- And his name was The Juice.

- His name was The Juice.

- There's a lot to unpack here.

So, let's just get into it.

In the early morning of June

13th, 1994 at 12:10 a.m.

the bodies of Nicole Brown Simpson

and Ronald L. Goldman were found

outside Nicole's Brentwood

townhouse, stabbed to death.

So right now we're on our way

to Nicole Simpson's house. (groans)

- [Shane] Is that it right up there?

- That's it over there.

I feel awful.

- [Shane] Yeah I'm not crazy about this.

- No. Look at that face!

- Such a, such a cheery,

cheery evening here

in Brentwood.
- Yeah. (sighs)

(creepy orchestral music)

Oh boy, okay. (groaning)

- [Shane] Good times.

- At the time, Nicole and

O.J. Simpson were divorced

and living in separate residences,

both located in Brentwood.

The bodies were discovered

by two neighbors

who were literally led to the crime scene

by Nicole's dog,
(dog barking)

a dog that multiple neighbors would say

was incessantly barking

around the time of the murders.

So like I said, the dog led

the neighbors down the street,

I'm not sure if it was

this way or that way,

but the dog led them to the entrance,

and they just saw the blood,

coming out to the sidewalk.

This whole place has been renovated,

so the entrance right now

is in a different place

than it was back then, but-

- [Shane] You know what

occurs to me, though,

is how close all those apartments were.

And how it's like-

- [Ryan] And how no one heard.

- For some reason, yeah, yeah,

I always imagined this street was bigger,

and things were a little more separated,

but everything's kind of

on top of each other there.

I imagine some people would

have had to hear something.

- That's a good point.

I never thought about that.

Let's go through the established

and highly detailed timeline.

On June 12th, 1994, at 6:30 p.m.,

Nicole, her children, and
others arrive at dinner

at a restaurant called Mezzaluna.

At 9:15 p.m., Nicole's

sister calls Mezzaluna to say

that her mother had

left her glasses there.

Ronald Goldman goes to

pick up the glasses.

At 9:00 to 9:30 p.m. Brian Kato Kaelin

and O.J. Simpson go to

McDonald's for dinner.

I can't imagine McDonald's

was pleased to hear that.

- I know.
- I'm sure they wished he left

that out of the testimony.

- [Shane] Was that in the testimony?

- [Ryan] I mean it had to be.

It's on the official timeline.

- [Shane] Oof.

(Ryan laughing)

Well, free, it did get a lot

of media coverage though-

- I guess.
- So free, free advertising.

- [Ryan] I suppose.

At 9:45 p.m., Kato and O.J.

return home from McDonald's.

Kato was staying with O.J. in

his guest house at the time.

At 9:48 to 9:50 p.m.,

Goldman leaves Mezzaluna

with a white envelope containing

Nicole's mother's glasses.

At 10:15 p.m., Nicole Simpson's

neighbor hears a dog bark

and cry while he is watching TV.

The prosecution would later

cite these barks as the barks

of Nicole's dog, who is

theoretically crying out

at the murder of its owner, Nicole. So-

- [Shane] They're going by dog bark?

- [Ryan] They're going by dog bark.

In a lot of ways, this dog,

is the real hero of this

story, it seems like.

- [Shane] I don't know if

there's a lot of heroes

in this one, Ryan.

- No, no, but the dog-

- [Shane] If you wanna give it to the dog,

then sure.
- I'll give it to the dog,

I'd like to have something

happy about this story-

- Yeah.
- And the dog

is a regular Lassie.

For the sake of just

keeping this less bleak,

let's show a picture

of an akita right now.

I think we could all use that.

- Please.

(bright music)

- [Ryan] (laughing) Okay.

- Hey, something jolly.

- Yeah, something jolly.

At 10:25 p.m., a limousine

driver named Allan Park arrives
at O.J.'s home.

O.J. was scheduled to leave

on a red eye that night

from LA to Chicago at 11:45 p.m.

At 10:40 p.m., O.J.'s guest,

Kato, heard three loud thumps

on an outside wall of the

guesthouse he is staying in.

From 10:40 to 10:55 p.m.,

Allan Park, the limo driver,

buzzes O.J.'s intercom several times,

but there's no answer.

Just before 11 p.m., the limo

driver sees a shadowy figure,

six feet tall, 200 pounds,

walking across the

driveway towards the house.

At about 11 p.m.,

the limo driver tries

buzzing the intercom again,

and this time, O.J. answers.

O.J. tells the limo driver

that he had overslept

and had just gotten out of the shower.

Doesn't look too good.

- [Shane] Doesn't look too good.

Could've been a coyote?

- [Ryan] (laughing) What?

- [Shane] Eh, Los Angeles

has got it's fair share

of coyotes running around.

- [Ryan] A six-foot tall

coyote that weighed 200 pounds?

By the way, for it being a shadowy figure,

this guy seems to have a very
accurate description of him.

- [Shane] I know, yeah.

- [Ryan] Six feet, 200 pounds.

- [Shane] But very shadowy.

- [Ryan] Smelled of McDonald's.

At 11:45 p.m., O.J. departs

on an American Airlines flight to Chicago.

And taking us back to the start,

at 12:10 a.m., the bodies

of Nicole Brown Simpson

and Ronald L. Goldman are

discovered outside her townhouse,

stabbed to death.

Evidence found at the crime scene included

a blood-stained glove left

by the suspected killer,

a knitted hat, and a bloody footprint.

Detectives would arrive at

O.J.'s house at 5:00 a.m.,

and would discover some

key pieces of evidence,

but we'll get into that later.

Meanwhile, O.J.'s flight lands in Chicago.

According to lead
prosecutor, Marsha Clark,

detective Ron Phillips

called O.J. to inform him

that his ex-wife was dead.

O.J.'s first response?

Quote, "Who killed her," end quote.

- [Shane] Not good.

- [Ryan] Not, how did she die?

- Nope.
- What happened?

(laughing) Who killed her?

- [Shane] Yeah. That's not,

that's not the go-to there.

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] O.J. was questioned

for three hours by the LAPD, but released.

On June 17, 1994, four days later,

O.J. was charged with

two counts of murder,

but he famously did not

surrender to the police,

and was declared a fugitive.

The resulting low-speed police chase

of O.J. on the freeways

of southern California,

in his white Ford Bronco,

is a lasting memory for

anybody familiar with the case.

Do you remember that?

- [Shane] I actually don't.

I think I was not too on

top of the news cycle then,

'cause I was watching

Power Rangers or something.

But I was not-

- [Ryan] Yeah, that's true,

maybe you were just eating

cereal or some shit like that.

- Yeah.
- So I probably,

taking a dump or something, I don't know.

- [Shane] Is that all

you did do at that age?

- [Ryan] That's all did, was take dumps.

- Oh, well.
- In my pants.

- [Shane] That's a weird childhood.

- [Ryan] O.J. was in the passenger seat.

The car was being driven

by his friend, Al Cowlings,

who would later explain he

didn't stop due to the fact

that O.J. was apparently

holding a gun to his own head

in the car, and that O.J. was suicidal.

In fact, a suicide note by O.J. was found,

but we'll get to that in a bit.

So right now, we're going about the speed

that O.J. was when the

chase was happening,

and we're in rush hour traffic,

for the most part, in LA.

- I thought he was going even slower.

- [Ryan] I can't say I

feel exhilarated right now.

Nor do I feel like Vin Diesel.

During the chase, they

recorded a phone call

between O.J. and homicide

detective, Tom Lange.

Here's some audio from that.

- [Tom] Nobody's gonna get hurt.

- [O.J.] I'm the only one that deserves-

- [Tom] No, you don't, deserve that.

- [O.J.] I'm gonna get hurt.

- [Tom] You do not deserve to get hurt.

(O.J. groans)

You do not deserve to

get hurt. Don't do this.

- [O.J.] All I did was love Nicole,

that's all I did, was love her.

- [Ryan] The chase would end

in O.J.'s home in Brentwood.

Inside the car, they found,

in what I imagine was unintentional humor,

makeup adhesive, a fake

mustache and goatee,

O.J.'s passport, and a gun.

Just try to picture,

one of the most famous

people in the world,

trying to sneak into TSA

with a glued-on mustache,

and thinking that it's gonna workout.

(laughing) I can't believe

he was even considering it.

- [Shane] It's a little juvenile.

- [Ryan] O.J. surrendered

to the police at 8:51 p.m.

Let's go over O.J.'s suicide note.

Aside from thanking those

who meant a lot to him

in his life, O.J. professed his innocence.

Quote, "First, everyone understand.

"I have nothing to do

with Nicole's murder.

"I loved her.

"Always have and always will.

"If we had a problem, it's

because I loved her so much."

End quote.

And with that, let's

get into the suspects.
Unlike our other cases, this
case has one clear top suspect.

O.J. Simpson.

So let's break this

down into two sections.

Why O.J. is the killer,

and why O.J. isn't the killer.

Let's start with why

he could have done it.

First off, let's start

with a possible motive.

O.J. and Nicole Simpson had

been going through a break,

and around the time of the murders,

Nicole and Ronald Goldman

had reportedly grown increasingly close,

leading some to speculate

that they were, perhaps,

more than friends,

though Goldman said that wasn't the case.

That, obviously, is a
clear motive, right there.

- [Shane] Yeah, well, I mean,

even if Goldman had said that

that wasn't the case, it's,

I don't think that's gonna matter-

- No.
- If he's spending any time

with her.
- I mean, that's a meme now,

the guy you shouldn't be worried about.

- [Shane] Right, yeah.

- Yeah, so.

(laughing) In the most extreme case.

Now, let's return to the timeline.

If the murders did, in fact,

occur around 10:15 when

the dog barking began,

as the prosecution suggested,

that would give O.J. enough

time to commit the murders,

clean himself up,

and be back at his house by 11 p.m.

to greet the limo driver.

Right now we're heading over

to O.J.'s Rockingham Estate,

which was actually only six minutes away

from Nicole's townhouse.

So.

- [Shane] So it's feasible.

Especially if he was clippin'.

Damn, these houses are nice.

- [Ryan] Yeah, these are very nice houses.

- That's, I think, it.

- That supposedly is it.

- Yeah.
- Oh boy.

So this is the former site

of O.J.'s Rockingham Estate.

It was demolished in 1998.

But, happy to leave.

Going into DNA evidence.

O.J.'s blood, as well as

Nicole's and Goldman's,

were found on the glove left

at the scene of the crime.

Further damning was the fact

that this glove matched a glove found

within O.J.'s estate behind

the guest house, near the area

where O.J.'s friend Kato heard

loud thumps at 10:40 p.m.

Both gloves had blood on them

that matched Nicole, Goldman, and O.J.

O.J. also had a cut on his

finger the day after the murders

when the police interviewed him.

The knitted hat found at the

crime scene contained hairs

that were proven to be O.J.'s

by the FBI hair and fiber laboratory.

Also found at O.J.'s residence

was Nicole's blood on a sock.

Blood was also found in his driveway.

The bloody shoe print found

at the crime scene matched O.J.'s size,

and the sole pattern matched another pair

that O.J. owned at the time.

O.J. had also purchased a knife,

matching the type the coroner

predicted the killer used.

Though, the knife and the

shoes were never found.

- [Shane] This is where a lot of people,

sorta draw the line, right?

- [Ryan] (laughing) When you

have three separate pieces

of evidence that have DNA

connotations linking you

to the murder.

- [Shane] If you're looking at,

at the surface here, boy, oh boy.

- [Ryan] That's an avalanche of,

he done it, right there.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- So, maybe we should just show

a picture of that dog again,

just like, yeah, just

every time we get sad,

we show the picture of the dog.

- You wanna bring that up.

- Bring that bad boy up.

It's right there.

- Good.
- It's a good dog.

- Good dog.

- [Ryan] Another key detail was the fact

that O.J. had been a perpetrator

of spousal abuse against

Nicole Simpson in the past,

reportedly resulting in nine police visits

to the Simpson residence responding

to domestic disturbance calls.

In 1989, O.J. was found

guilty for spousal abuse,

and plead no contest to the charges.

Bizarrely, O.J. himself

actually wrote a book

in 2006 called, "If I Did It,"

a hypothetical account of the murders.

Though the book was first

canceled due to public outrage,

it was later published,

with the profits going

to the Goldman family.
- [Shane] Oh, boy. That's.

- [Ryan] Holy shit.

(laughing) That's all

I have to say to that.

- [Shane] He's just, redefining-

- [Ryan] This guy's got some nads on him,

and in the worst way possible.

For those that are new to this case,

O.J. Simpson was found

not guilty in court.

Despite the DNA evidence

found at the crime scene,

the defense team called to the attention

of the jury technical mistakes

made by the forensic team

which created some

doubt over the evidence.

Evidence was not packaged correctly

and even left in a van to overheat.

This ultimately led to them suggesting

that the crime scene may

have been contaminated.

Grasping at straws.

I don't know, I'm not a scientist,

I'm not a forensic artist-

- I know, I know you're not.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I mean, in case

you're wondering, I'm not.

- [Shane] He is not.

- [Ryan] But, from my

knucklehead perspective,

this looks very bad.

During the trial,

the defense team had O.J.

try on the glove found

at the crime scene, and it was too small,

Leading to the now famous

line by his lawyer,

quote, "If it doesn't fit,

you must acquit," end quote.

- [Shane] Catchy.

- [Ryan] He Dr. Seuss'd his

way out of a murder, so.

Though, it's worth mentioning,

the prosecution team was

against having O.J. try

on the glove,

because it had been frozen

and unfrozen multiple times

as a preservation method,

and it also had been covered in blood.

- [Shane] I don't know how

glove freezing works, frankly.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I'm not a big,

I'm not a glove-freeze artist.

- [Shane] No.

- [Ryan] Many believe

that race played a factor

in O.J.'s acquittal due to the events

that surrounded the trial.

In 1992, race riots occurred

due to the LAPD's senseless

and horrific beating of a

black man named Rodney King,

a beating for which the

assaulting officers were acquitted

of all charges.

The defense strategically

used law enforcement racism
as a reason for O.J.'s charges.

They showed a video of Simpson handcuffed,

as soon as he returned from

Chicago, demonstrating the rush

in judgment by the police.

Perhaps one of their biggest arguments

was centered around

Detective Mark Fuhrman.

During the trial, the defense played

for the jury a tape of audio

in which Detective Fuhrman was

recorded using racial slurs

over 40 times in one recorded sitting.

This is noteworthy,

because Detective
Fuhrman was the first man

to step inside O.J.'s

Brentwood Rockingham Estate

after the murders occurred,

a feat he accomplished
by jumping over the wall

of O.J.'s estate.

This is a critical detail because,

according to Detective
Fuhrman's own testimony,

it was during this time

after he jumped the wall

that he alone discovered the

notorious matching bloody glove

behind O.J.'s guest house.

With this information, the

defense was able to suggest

that Detective Fuhrman planted the glove,

and perhaps all other evidence

found at O.J.'s estate,
effectively tainting
the evidence regardless

of whether or not it was true.

Christopher Darden, a
deputy district attorney,

assigned to the O.J. case

summarized it in this quote:

Quote, "It will do one thing.

"It will upset the black jurors.

"It will say, whose side are you on,

"the Man or the Brothers," end quote.

The jury was made up

of eight black people,

one Hispanic person, one white person,

and two people of mixed race.

All these things considered,

the jury reached the verdict

of not guilty after less than

four hours of deliberation.

However, it's worth

mentioning that O.J. lost

the eventual civil case

for the wrongful deaths

of Nicole Brown Simpson

and Ronald Goldman,

with the jury awarding

their families 33.5 million

in punitive damages.

- This episode is bumming me out, Ryan.

- (laughing) Yeah I know.

- This is a very depressing case.

- This is the worst.

But if O.J. didn't kill his

ex-wife and Ronald Goldman,

then who did?

Let's get into some alternate suspects.

The first suspect is

serial killer Glen Rogers.

In an investigation discovery documentary,

Clay Rogers, the brother of

serial killer Glen Rogers,

said that while on death row,

his brother Glen confessed to

murdering Nicole Brown Simpson

and Ronald Goldman.

Though, even if this theory is true,

O.J. would still be guilty.

Glen Rogers reportedly had been hired

by O.J. to steal a pair of

Nicole's earrings from her condo,

but was told to kill her

if she got in the way.

However, it's possible

that Rogers was serving

a six week jail sentence

at the time of the murders,

and thus lied about his involvement.

- [Shane] I feel like,

people in prison for murder,

and serial killers, tend to just-

- [Ryan] Claim things?

- [Shane] Yeah, why do they do that?

- [Ryan] Sometimes people claim things,

in an effort to make themselves

seem more accomplished

in that field, I suppose.

- [Shane] Well, none of us are impressed.

- No, I'm not impressed.

- Serial killers.
- [Ryan] (laughing)
Yeah, that's gonna really

let it sink in.

They're gonna see this video,

and be like, he's right.

Pack it up, you know what, let's,

what're we, what're we doing?

- Stop it.

- You're really hittin'

that there hard right now.

- Stop it.
- Keep going, keep going,

maybe you'll make a difference.

- Stop serial killing.

- [Ryan] The last suspect is

Jason Simpson, O.J.'s son,

and is the sole theory

of famed private investigator Bill Dear,

who is one of the few

private investigators

to be inducted into the

Police Hall of Fame.

Though, it's worth mentioning

that many have discredited Dear's case

as almost entirely circumstantial.

Nonetheless, Dear presents

his theory in a book,

and the highlights are as follows.

At the time of Nicole

and Goldman's murders,

Jason was on probation

after having attacked his

former boss with a knife.

According to Dear,
Jason had also attacked
a former girlfriend,

named Jennifer Green.

Dear also spoke to

another former girlfriend

of Jason's named Dee Dee,

who claimed Jason almost broke

her back after throwing her

into a bathtub and, perhaps

even more suspiciously,

cut off her hair with a knife,

giving Jason two reported

assaults involving a knife.

Dear also reportedly obtained

medical records of Jason's,

illegally, some might add, by dressing up

and impersonating a doctor

at Ceders-Sinai Hospital,

for two weeks, where

Jason had been a patient.

- I don't like this guy.

- I mean, he tricked people

in hospital for two weeks.

- [Shane] People were murdered.

And this guy's playing dress-up?

- [Ryan] I know, but I'm just saying.

- [Shane] He's like, oh,

what if I do this, woo hoo!

- [Ryan] Well, he was doing

it because he was chasing-

- [Shane] I'll put on a funny wig-

- [Ryan] In his mind,

he was chasing justice.

I mean, apparently the Police

Hall of Fame thought so, so.

- [Shane] Is that a real thing?

- [Ryan] Yes, it is.

- [Shane] I wouldn't be surprised,

if it was just him making that up.

Him in different costumes, being like,

yes, we're a real organization-

- He cuts the video-

- Talk to the President.

- So he talks-
- Yes, hello,

I'm the President.

(Ryan laughing)

Hey, he looks like that other guy,

he just got a mustache.

- [Ryan] According to Dear,

Jason had been diagnosed

with intermittent rage disorder,

and around the time of the murders,

Jason stopped taking the

prescribed antipsychotic drugs.

This was also during the time

when Jason reportedly told doctors he was,

quote, "going to rage."

Jason's alibi was that he was working

at a restaurant that night.

Dear feels this is a flimsy alibi,

due to the fact that his timecard

is reportedly handwritten,

which could suggest it was

forged after the murders.

This reportedly handwritten timecard

looks even more suspicious

when you consider the fact

that the electronic time clock

at the restaurant was fully

functional that night.

Dear also reportedly has pictures

of Jason wearing a knitted

hat that bears resemblance

to the one found at

the scene of the crime,

pictures that only exist before

the murders, and not after.

To cap this off, Dear suggests

that O.J. was only present

at the scene of the

crime to protect his son,

and that this would explain

his bizarre behavior

after the murders, such as

the infamous Bronco chase.

But, as mentioned before,

many have discredited Dear's case

as almost entirely circumstantial.

Unrelated to this case,

on September 16, 2007,

O.J. was connected to a

robbery in Las Vegas, Nevada.

In the 2008 trial that followed,

O.J. was found guilty for 12 counts,

including armed robbery and kidnapping,

and was sentenced to 33 years in prison.

According to CNN, the overall

percentage of Americans

who believe O.J. did

murder Nicole Brown Simpson

and Ronald Goldman has

increased from 66% in 1994,

to 83% in 2014.

- Certainly, there are

a lot of implications.
Nuanced, very nuanced.

- I feel dirty, I feel like

I need to take a shower.

And then a bath.

- Yeah.

- And then another shower.

- Yeah.

- I need a drink.

- Well, thanks Ryan,

this has been a blast.

- Yeah, let's just go.

- Yeah.
- Okay.

Ouch.

Perhaps one day, we will

have a definite answer

for who is responsible

for the tragic murders

of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

But for now, the case

officially remains unsolved.

(eerie music)

This week on "Buzzfeed Unsolved,"

we discuss the famous case of D.B. Cooper,

a case that the FBI's referred to

as one of the great unsolved

mysteries in FBI history.

It's also considered one

of the greatest unsolved

mysteries in US history.

It's a favorite of mine.

- Ooh.

Yeah, I've heard of this one a little bit,

just a little bit.

- Oh you haven't heard it
like I'm about to tell it.

- Oh boy, okay, strap in.

- Let's strap in, baby, let's get into it.

On Wednesday, November 24th, 1971,

the day before Thanksgiving,

a man going by the name Dan Cooper bought

a $20 one-way ticket on NorthWest

Orient Airlines with cash

for flight number 305

from Portland, Oregon

to Seattle, Washington.

Cooper was described

as being in his mid-40s

and wearing a business suit,

a black rain type overcoat,

brown shoes, a white shirt, and black tie.

He carried a dark briefcase

and a four inch by 12

inch by 14 inch paper bag.

Before the plane took off, Cooper,

seated in seat 18C ordered

a bourbon and soda.

- [Shane] He seems like a cool dude.

- [Ryan] I don't think he even ordered

the bourbon and soda to calm his nerves.

I think he just did it

because he's a badass.

- [Shane] No, he was probably just like,

"Bourbon, soda, now."

I'm D.B. Cooper, I'm a mystery

man, give me a bourbon."

(both laughing)

(bright music)
That's a big gulp.

- [Ryan] After the plane had taken off,

a little after 3:00 p.m.

Cooper handed the stewardess a note.

At first, she just put it in her pocket

without looking at it,

but then Cooper said,

quote, "Miss, you better

"look at that note. I

have a bomb," end quote.

(Shane laughs)

Wait, what's so funny about that?

He has a bomb.

- [Shane] I think it's funny

that he passed her a note

to be discreet about it, like,

"Hey, uh, keep this on the down low."

And then she was just like,

"Thanks," and walked away.

And he was like, "Hey, ah,

you might want to read that

"'cause I've got a bomb, oh god dammit.

"Yeah, I got a bomb everybody."

- [Ryan] Cooper told her the

bomb was in his briefcase

and asked her to sit next to him.

He opened his briefcase

to show red colored sticks

surrounded by an array of wires.

After that, Cooper asked the stewardess

to write down what he was saying

and take it to the captain.

Quote, "I want $200,000 by 5:00 p.m.

"in cash, put in a knapsack.

"I want two back parachutes
and two front parachutes.

"When we land, I want a

fuel truck ready to refuel.

"No funny stuff or I'll do the job."

- [Shane] No funny stuff!

- [Ryan] I also like how

he says, "Do the job."

- [Shane] "I'll do the job!"

- [Ryan] Like, that's his

threat, which actually to me-

- [Shane] That's badass.

- [Ryan] He's not a dime store criminal,

let's just say that.

- [Shane] I was, yeah, he's-

- [Ryan] I'm on board with the Coop-train.

- [Shane] Me too! I'm a fan of this guy.

- [Ryan] You big Coop-head.

- [Shane] I'm a Coop-head.

- [Ryan] One odd detail

was that Cooper asked

for the $200,000 to be

exclusively in $20 bills.

The flight landed in Seattle,

and Cooper exchanged the

36 passengers on the plane

for the money and the

parachutes he had requested.

Cooper kept some crew members on the plane

and had the plane take

off for Mexico City,

requesting that the plane

remain below 10,000 feet.

During the second half of the flight,

Cooper put on a pair of
dark wrap-around sunglasses

with dark rims that would later become

part of the sketch that

would become famous

for anybody familiar with the case.

- I'm just imagining a

camera just pushing in on him

as he's just like. (blows)

(Ryan laughing)

(dramatic music)

- If we were in today's age,

this guy would definitely

have headphones in

playing a Spotify playlist

of epic soundtracks.

- He would have one of

those shitty hover boards.

- Not an actual hover board, but a shitty.

- Yeah, he'd be like,

"Or I'll do the job."

He'd take out his wheels, put 'em down,

start moving up and down the aisle.

(Ryan laughing)

Knapsack, or I'll do the job.

- A little after 8:00 p.m.

when the plane was somewhere

between Seattle and Reno, Nevada,

Cooper jumped out of the

rear doors of the Boeing 727

with two of the parachutes and the money,

never to be seen again.

One thing worth noting

is that Cooper took off

his black J.C. Penney clip

on tie before jumping,
a piece of evidence that the FBI was able

to procure a DNA sample from.

- [Shane] You think James Bond

ever wore a clip-on bow tie?

- [Ryan] Yeah, I guess.

I, wow, you real, that does kind of-

- [Shane] That's kind of a,

takes the wind out of

my sails a little bit.

- [Ryan] Well, maybe if he

like knew he had to do a quick-

- [Shane] Still, but-

- [Ryan] And that was

like an efficiency thing.

- [Shane] Still, but, if he was like,

"I'm gonna put my sunglasses on,

it'll look cool," if he

was like (whooshing).

Clink.

(Ryan laughing)

- With the DNA sample from the tie,

let's jump into the investigation launched

to identify the man who

called himself Dan Cooper.

The case was called NORJAK,

standing for Northwest Hijacking,

and would last decades.

The plane was intensely

searched for evidence.

Desperate to find Cooper's identity,

there was extra interest in $20 bills

because the FBI had

released the serial numbers

of the bills stolen by Cooper.

Remarkably, in 1980, nine
years after Cooper's escape

a young boy found a rotten

package filled with $20 bills

that matched the ransom

money's serial numbers.

There was $5,800 in all.

The boy found the bills

on a beach at Tina Bar

while making a campfire with his father.

People theorize that

when Cooper jumped out,

the money possibly fell

into the Washougal River

before eventually making

its way to Tina Bar.

That's basically all they've theorized.

- I'm just imagining him just jumping out

and immediately just losing

grip of all the bags.

Just a man plummeting

to earth with a bunch

of money flying around,

and him being like. (yells)

- [Ryan] Though this discovery

would ultimately lead

to nothing as the FBI scoured

the surrounding beaches,

finding nothing else.

In the year that followed the hijacking,

several letters were sent to the FBI,

"The New York Times,"

"The Washington Post,"

"The Los Angeles Times,"

and "The Seattle Times,"

either confessing to the crime,

eulogizing a
recently-deceased D.B. Cooper,

or claiming to be his brother.

In fact, in November 1972, two men,

Donald Sylvester Murphy

and William John Lewis

were taken into federal custody

on charges of extortion
for impersonating Cooper

and selling his tell-all

story to a tabloid.

- [Shane] It seems like a bad idea

to make your get-rich-quick scheme

to be to impersonate a criminal.

- [Ryan] Yeah, that's a-

- [Shane] I wouldn't be like,

(laughs) "Hey, it's me, the Zodiac Killer.

"I'll tell ya story.

"What? Oh, oh."

(both laughing)

- Leads were tracked all over the country

and more than 800 suspects were considered

over the first five years

of the investigation.

All but 24 suspects were

eliminated from consideration.

One peculiar fact is

that the initials D.B.

have no actual relevance to the case,

and the FBI isn't sure

where they came from.

It was reportedly a
mistake from a wire service

that caused him to be called D.B. Cooper

instead of Dan Cooper, which
is how he presented himself

when buying the plane ticket.

- [Shane] D. B. sounds cooler.

- [Ryan] It does.

- [Shane] Dan just

sounds like your neighbor

who's like askin' to

borrow the lawn mower.

- [Ryan] The physical

description of Cooper

is thought to be very accurate.

Two flight attendants spent

hours with him on the plane,

and were interviewed separately

the night the hijacking occurred.

They gave nearly identical

descriptions of Cooper,

saying that he was five

feet 10 to six feet,

170 to 180 pounds in his

mid-40s and brown eyes.

People who interacted

with him on the ground

gave similar descriptions.

His voice was described as

low, no particular accent,

but spoke with an intelligent vocabulary.

- [Shane] I would like

some bourbon and some money

or I will do the job.

- [Ryan] Sounds like a

terrifying version of Siri.

- [Shane] It's me, Dan.

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] The charge against Cooper

was originally air piracy,

but that had a five year

statute of limitations

and as time went on, with no

suspects being found guilty,

a grand jury later indicted Cooper

for violating the Hobbs Act.

The Hobbs Act is a federal statute

designed to prevent extortion.

It has no statute of limitations,

meaning if Cooper was found

tomorrow he could be charged

even though the FBI investigation

has since been called off.

Before we jump into suspects,

I'd like to point out that

the pilot told officials

that he himself chose the route

the plane took, not Cooper.

Cooper only requested his end

destination of Mexico City,

a decision that is a bit puzzling

when you consider the fact that Cooper

knew he intended to jump out of a plane.

This seemingly eliminates the possibility

of Cooper having an accomplice,

as there was no coordination

about the route from Cooper,

and therefore, no coordinated drop point.

- [Shane] This is what

always interested me

about this case,

it's because it seems

so meticulously planned
up until he jumps.

- [Ryan] Maybe he's one of

those people that goes out

to do things, like,
I'm kinda like this too

where I'll go out and I'm like,

"I'll figure it out in the moment."

- [Shane] Or, he was

confident and he nailed it!

- [Ryan] With that, let's

jump into the suspects.

The first suspect is Richard Floyd McCoy,

who is the favorite suspect

of former FBI Agent Russell Calame

and former Federal Probation

Officer Bernie Rhodes.

The two men even wrote

a book about the case.

In April 1972, five months

after Cooper's escape,

the FBI arrested Richard Floyd McCoy

for hijacking an airplane.

When examined, the McCoy heist

is definitely similar to the Cooper heist.

Like Cooper, McCoy hijacked a plane

and parachuted off of it.

McCoy jumped out the back rear staircase

of a Boeing 727, the same

plane Cooper jumped out of,

using the same method.

Also like Cooper, McCoy

requested four parachutes

and was calm during the heist.

Reportedly, both of the men passed notes

to the flight attendants
claiming a bomb was on board.

A detail that becomes more compelling

when you learn that both

Cooper and McCoy's notes

reportedly contained the

phrase, "No funny stuff."

Another suspicious coincidence

is the fact that both crimes

reportedly occurred while

Brigham Young University,

where McCoy was a student, was on break.

- [Shane] He was a student?

- [Ryan] In this theory, yes.

- [Shane] I was thinking about it

in like a cold, hard, criminal way.

I wasn't thinking, like, spring break!

- Spring-
- That sound kinda fun!

- [Ryan] Do you think

that's what he yelled

when he jumped out the plane?

Spring Break! As he just

falls down to his death?

- "Spring Break!" (grunts)

- Perhaps the most riveting detail

is that according to Calame and Rhodes,

members of McCoy's family identified

an object left on the plane by Cooper,

an object that was never

publicly identified.

Some parts of the internet seem to believe

that this object was a Brigham

Young University medallion

with McCoy's initials on it,

but this seems to stem from
the Wikipedia page on the case,

which makes this most

likely complete horse shit.

I mean, the thing is, if

that's the case, case closed.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Brigham Young

University medallion

with his initials on it, I mean-

- [Shane] But it's not

definitive? It's not-

- [Ryan] They just said

unidentified object,

which is probably like a stick of gum

or some stupid shit like that.

- [Shane] Right, oh, he chewed

Juicy Fruit for sure, yeah.

- [Ryan] He chewed Wrigley's,

he chewed Wrigley's, he was a big-

- [Shane] Oh, he was

a big Juicy Fruit man.

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] Regardless if
McCoy is Cooper or not,

the FBI eventually ruled

out McCoy as a suspect

for the Cooper case, mainly

because he didn't match

the descriptions of Cooper

given by the flight attendants.

Though, Calame and Rhodes listed

the two men as looking similar.

Additionally, according to FBI archives,

McCoy was home with his

family for Thanksgiving dinner
in Utah the day after the hijacking.

Unlike Cooper, McCoy was

actually caught after his heist

and sentenced to 45 years in prison.

McCoy would actually escape from prison

in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania
and would later die

in a gunfight with FBI agents

in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

I just love how that

story has so many like oh.

- He's out.
- He's like, "Yeah."

- He's not out.

- Oh.

- He's out.
- Ah?

- Shot to death.
- Oh.

- That was a roller coaster

of emotions right there.

The second suspect is Duane Weber,

who claimed to be D.B.

Cooper on his death bed.

His wife Jo claims that

in the hour of his death,

Duane pulled her close and said, quote,

"I have a secret to tell

you, I'm Dan Cooper."

(Shane gulps)
(Ryan laughing)

- I was trying to take a

drink and I just imagined.

- "Closer, closer, closer."

- "I have a secret to tell you."

- "I'm D.B. Cooper."

- "I'm the Phantom of the Sky." (gurgling)

(both laughing)

I bet she did not see that one coming.

- No, she's probably gonna be like.

- Did he cheat on me?

- Exactly.

"Did you cheat on me?"

- "I'm a man of myth."

- This revelation led to Jo revisiting

what should have been clear clues.

According to Jo, Duane had nightmares

where he'd sleep talk about, quote,

"Leaving fingerprints on a plane."

He also had a knee ailment that he claimed

he got jumping out of a plane.

Duane's handwriting was reportedly found

in the margins of a library

book on D.B. Cooper.

Jo also claims Duane took her to the place

where the money was eventually

found on Tina Bar beach.

That's interesting, if that's

true, that is interesting.

- [Shane] Wait, what'd

he write in the margins?

This was me?

- [Ryan] Cool guy.

- I did.
- Coolest guy in history.

- I did this.
- Nice sunglasses.

Wow. Bourbon's great.

And finally, Jo claims that Duane

had an old NorthWest Airlines
ticket for no apparent reason.

29 years after he left the case,

here's a quote from former lead

FBI agent Ralph Himmelsbach

on Duane Weber.

Quote, "He does fit the

physical description.

"He does have the criminal background

"that I've always felt was associated

"with the case," end quote.

Himmelsbach also believed

that Jo Weber's story

may have credibility,

but ultimately did not believe it was him.

She may be telling the truth.

- [Shane] Sounds pretty credible.

I don't believe her.

- [Ryan] But she's probably lying.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] The third and final suspect

is Kenneth Christiansen,

the favorite suspect of

the author Geoffrey Gray.

The theory began when Lyle Christiansen,

the brother of Kenneth Christiansen,

saw an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries"

and became convinced that

his brother was D.B. Cooper.

Lyle also cites a deathbed confession

from his now late brother Kenneth.

Kenneth reportedly said, quote,

"There is something you should know,

"but I cannot tell you," end quote.

- And then he died?

- And then he died.

(Shane laughing)

Talk about a guy who

appreciates a cliffhanger.

- [Shane] Yeah, that's great.

- [Ryan] I could, you know what?

Touche, touche, Kenneth.

Kenneth was a flight purser

for NorthWest Orient Airlines,

the same airline that Cooper hijacked,

which would support online suspicion

that it was an inside job.

Kenneth also loved

bourbon and bought a house

shortly after the crime,

though it was apparently unassuming.

Perhaps the most enthralling

part of Gray's theory

is that fact that when he

showed a picture of Kenneth

to a flight attendant who'd

interacted with Cooper,

she agreed that of all

the suspects she had seen,

Kenneth was the closest.

Though, she also said, quote,

"I can't say yea," end quote.

Bizarrely, the FBI debunked Kenneth

on the basis that he didn't

match the description.

So once again the FBI coming in hot

with some weird

contradictions, I don't know.
You're cool, FBI, I'm just saying.

- You don't wanna make

enemies of the deep state.

- No I don't especially
now with, nevermind.

- Yep.

- Another reason the FBI discredits

Kenneth as a suspect is because Kenneth

was a paratrooper just after World War II.

A detail that is damning,

according to the FBI,

who believes that Cooper

was not a skilled jumper.

- [Shane] Maybe he was masquerading

as an unskilled jumper.

- [Ryan] Hm, that's an

interesting suspicion and perhaps,

well, let's get into the

next section and maybe-

- [Shane] Greatest way to fool someone is

to act a fool yourself.

- [Ryan] Did you just, is that-

- [Shane] "Julius Caesar," Shakespeare.

- [Ryan] Nope, nope, nope.

- [Shane] That's not, no.

- [Ryan] I didn't think so.

- [Shane] I though you'd

fall into that one.

- [Ryan] No.

Which brings us to our next suspect,

or rather theory, from

Special Agent Larry Carr,

that D.B. Cooper did not survive the fall.

Agent Carr took over the

D.B. Cooper case in 2007.

Here's a quote from him on the matter.

Quote, "We originally thought Cooper

"was an experienced jumper,

perhaps even a paratrooper.

"We concluded after a few years

this was simply not true," end quote.

Here's some details that

support that narrative.

Cooper jumped carrying two parachutes.

However, only one of them

was a functioning chute.

The other was a training

chute that was sewn shut.

Furthermore, the shoot that was functional

was a military chute

that was not steerable.

He's kinda starting to

sound like an idiot.

- A little bit.

- The whole time, he's like,

"Yeah, bourbon soda, mm, bomb.

"Here's your note.

"I'm a cool guy, sunglasses."

Jumps out the plane. (screams)

(Shane screams)

Splat.

- It's not a splat, I

think a pine tree just.

(Ryan laughs)

Just, "No, no, no, no." (grunts)

- "Kill me."

- Little squirrel comes up to him.

(Ryan laughing)

"Get out of here." (gurgling)

- [Ryan] Here's some more

details from Agent Carr.

Quote, "No experienced parachutist

"would have jumped in

the pitch black night,

"in the rain, with a 200

mile-an-hour wind in his face,

"wearing loafers and a

trench coat," end quote.

Other reasons he possibly died in the fall

include him jumping into

a wooded area at night,

and there was no visibility of the ground

at the time that he jumped as there

was a cloud cover at 5,000 feet.

- [Shane] So this guy's a dumb-dumb.

- [Ryan] He's dumb-dumb.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] He's a big dumb-dumb.

Big dumb-dumb floating in the sky

with his stupid trench

coat blowing in the wind.

- [Shane] In his loafers.

- [Ryan] Obviously, this

theory loses a bit of credence

due to the fact his body

or chute were never found.

The last theory we will discuss comes

from a group of amateur scientists

that refer to themselves

as Citizen Sleuths.

- [Shane] That's, frankly,

kinda what you are.
- [Ryan] Yeah, and that's
why I like this theory.

- [Shane] Okay, well, let's see

what your friends have to say.

- (laughs) I got you guys, don't worry.

He's gonna be floored.

Citizen Sleuths employed the

use of an electron microscope

to discover north of 100,000 particles

on D.B. Cooper's tie.

Among these particles,

they discovered cerium, strontium sulfide,

and pure titanium.

According to lead Citizen

Sleuth's researcher Tom Kaye,

quote, "These are what they

call rare earth elements.

"They're used in very narrow fields,

"for very specific things," end quote.

Kaye stated that although these elements

were rare during 1971,

one place they were being

utilized was at Boeing,

where they were developing

an advanced, supersonic transport plane.

Kaye and the Citizen Sleuths posit

that Cooper may have

been a Boeing employee,

explaining the rare

materials found on his tie.

Quote, "The tie went with

him into these manufacturing

"environments for sure, so he was not

"one of the people running
these manufacturing machines.

"He was either an engineer or a manager

"in one of the plants," end quote.

- [Shane] I feel like,

if you got a job at Boeing,

just, hang in there.

- Why? Yeah.

Why does he need help.

- [Shane] Get a nice 401k, retire.

Why you gotta go jumping out of planes?

- [Ryan] Because that's

not how D.B. does it, baby.

He likes bourbon, he likes adventure,

and he likes notes.

- [Shane] And flying through the sky,

screaming with a pair of loafers on.

(Ryan laughing)

- Kaye believes the key

to identifying Cooper

rests with the memory

of perhaps one person

in the Pacific North West who was involved

in the aerospace industry at the time.

If that person is you, all information

can be relayed to the Citizen Sleuths

via the contact tab on their

website, citizensleuths.com.

The FBI called their

search for D.B. Cooper,

"One of the longest and most

exhaustive investigations,"

in its history.

As of 2011, the FBI case

file measured 40 feet long,

and covered more than 1,000 suspects,

so what we presented here is

only the tip of the iceberg.

The case was open for 45 years

before the FBI finally closed it in 2016,

though they are still willing

to listen to possible leads.

What do you think happened?

- I'm gonna go Occam's Razor on this one

and just assume that he

rocketed to the ground.

A little juxtaposition of him

being on the plane being like,

"I'll have a bourbon,"

and then two hours later. (yells)

- After all these years,

people are still transfixed

on the identity of the cunning

crook known as D.B. Cooper.

But for now, and perhaps forever,

the case of D.B. Cooper

will remain unsolved.

(eerie music)

What if the trench coat was like Batman

where it was like a flight activated suit

that allows him to fly around

like a flying squirrel?

- In my mind though, I don't imagine him

being like, "Oh here comes

the tree line." (whooshing)

I imagine him being like, "Oh, I can't see

"through the clouds, oh now I can."

(Shane imitates explosion booming)

- It's just.
- Wile E. Coyote.

- Plume of smoke.
- Yeah.

- I'm Ryan, that's Brent.

This week on "Buzzfeed Unsolved"

we're covering the real-life

Men in Black, are they real?

Are they as charming as

their Hollywood counterparts?

- You know, watching "Men in Black,"

I never knew it was based on a true story.

- (laughs) Today we find out. (laughing)

The Men in Black are typically described

as wearing black suits,

being expressionless, cold,

sinister and in some cases, inhuman.

The Men in Black seem to only

talk to two kinds of people,

those who claim to have seen a UFO

and those who research UFO's.

They present themselves as

part of a secret organization,

sometimes even producing a white card

with a crest and the word security on it

And in some cases they refer

to each other by number,

rather than name.

They threaten and scare

people into remaining silent

about their UFO encounters

and/or research.

Think of them as the cleaners

of the extra-terrestrial universe.

- [Brent] How much black

do they actually wear?

Do they look like the Men in Black

that we see in the movies?

- [Ryan] We'll get into what

they really look like later.

- [Brent] Once they pull apart their skin

and an alien comes out.

- [Ryan] Now that you know the basics,

here are, in my opinion,

the most terrifying reports of encounters

with the Men in Black.

The first ever recorded

experience with the Men in Black

came from Harold Dahl in June, 1947.

Harold Dahl was out on his

boat in the Puget Sound,

where he claimed

he saw six giant doughnut-shaped

objects in the sky.

One of the objects fell apart,

spilling debris that killed

his dog and injured his son.

He took photos of the debris,

but said they were later

fogged over by a man in black,

who told him not to speak of the incident.

- [Brent] They had donuts in 1947?

How old are donuts?

- [Ryan] What?

- [Brent] You said he saw

donut-shaped objects in the sky.

- [Ryan] That's what you were thinking of

when I was telling you that story?

His fucking dog died.

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Okay.

The next incident comes from

Robert Richardson in 1967.

Robert Richardson reported

that he collided with a UFO

while driving at night in Toledo, Ohio.

On impact, the object vanished.

Richardson took home a small lump of metal

that he believed was from the UFO.

A week later, Richardson

said he was visited

by two Men in Black suits.

He said the two men asked

for the piece of metal

from the site.

But when Richardson informed them that

he had turned it over for

testing, they threatened him.

Quote, "If you want your wife

to stay as pretty as she is,

"then you'd better get the

metal back," end quote.

Richardson never heard from the men again

and still has no idea how

they knew about the metal.

- [Brent] Why didn't he go to the police?

Why did he search on the internet,

"What do I do-"

- [Ryan] I think he may

have gone to the police.

There is no internet by
the way, it's in 1967.

He probably just searched,

however people searched
back then, I dunno.

- [Brent] Mm.

- [Ryan] Fucking encyclopedias.

- [Brent] Encyclopedias.

[Ryan] I don't know.

- [Brent] Jinx.

- [Ryan] The next encounter happened

in New Jersey in 1968.

Jack Robinson, a UFO

researcher and his wife Mary

were terrorized by a man in black,

that would stand across the street

from their apartment building.

They reported their apartment appeared

to be rummaged through and

after seeing the strange man

for three days in a row,

their friend Timothy Green-Beckley decided

to get a closer look and

managed to snap a picture.

This is a rare instance of a

reported MIB caught on camera.

♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh ♪

- [Brent] How do we know he's

actually dressed in black

if it's a black and white picture.

Could be a dark navy.

(both laughing)

- [Ryan] Okay.

These next encounters I'm gonna go over

are a little more bizarre

and offer much stranger implications.

On September 11th, 1976,

Doctor Herbert Hopkins,

a doctor living in Maine,

was studying a UFO incident

when he reportedly got a phone call

from a man who had identified himself

as a representative of a
New Jersey UFO organization.

The man asked if Doctor Hopkins was alone

and if they could review research.

Doctor Hopkins agreed, and by

the time he hung up the phone

and turned on the lights outside,

Doctor Hopkins claimed the man was somehow

already coming up the stairs to his door.

Hopkins' description of the

man is the most horrifying yet.

The man wore a neatly-tailored black suit,

was bald with no eyebrows or eyelashes

and had smooth, dead-white

plastic skin like a doll.

His lips were ruby-red

and his speech was

expressionless and monotone,

as if you were hearing a machine.

- Question.
- Oh, god.

- [Brent] (laughs) He's

pale, really tight, fake skin

but the thing they choose to

make real is the ruby-red lips?

They put all their technology

into making those lips super realistic,

but the rest of the man can't speak normal

and he looks horrifying,

like his face in skin white.

What?

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] The man in black told Hopkins

to take out a coin and

said, "Watch the coin".

After that, Hopkins claims, quote,

"It started to develop a silver color

"instead of copper and the

the sliver became bluish

"and the penny was getting quite fuzzy,

"out of focus, blurred and

then it simply was gone.

"It slowly dematerialized," end quote.

After that, Hopkins

said the man ordered him

to destroy his UFO research.

- [Brent] Encounters like

this, if they were real,

they would not be this interesting.

- [Ryan] If in the off-chance

this actually happened,

how shitty would that be?

If you tell a story, no one's

gonna believe you, first off

and second off, you're gonna

look like a crazy person.

This next encounter

is with someone you

probably know, Dan Akroyd.

- Yeah.
- In January 2002,

Dan Akroyd sold a TV

show called "Out There"

to the SciFi network, that

would break serious ground

on a wide range of topics in

the alien-media landscape.

In the middle of conducting

further interviews

for the show, Dan stepped

outside for a break,

where he reported seeing

a black Ford sedan

appear suddenly across the street.

Dan reports that one large man

in black got out of the car

and gave Dan a dirty look.

Dan said he looked away for a brief second

and when he turned back, the car was gone.

Two hours after the car disappeared,

Dan was given bad news from

the producers of the show.

Dan said quote, "We were told

we were not to continue taping

"and the show was canceled

"and none of them would air," end quote.

- [Brent] Why is it not the government?

Why is it some weird alien

organization coming after them?

- [Ryan] If that were to be true,

that would mean that the

government is in accordance

with these aliens already.

- [Brent] So the Men

in Black could show up

at Obama's desk and be like,

"Hey, stop looking for aliens."

(Ryan laughing)
You pesky human!

- [Ryan] But, I saved the

best encounter for last.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] On October 14th

2008, near Niagara Falls,

hotel manager, Shane Sovar,

along with a hotel security guard,

reported seeing a large

triangular UFO outside his hotel.

A group called the Aerial

Phenomenon Investigations Team

looked into the incident.

They reported that a couple weeks later,

according to three other witnesses,

two unidentified Men in

Black had visited the hotel,

The Men in Black terrified the hotel staff

and were looking for Shane Sovar

and the hotel security guard,

who were luckily not there at the time.

And when Shane Sovar reviewed

the hotel security footage,

he discovered that the camera

had actually caught two men on tape.

What we're about to watch is that footage.

- [Brent] No one's gonna die, are they?

- [Ryan] No.

(eerie music)

Sovar reported that the

witnesses described the men

as tall with black suits, black hats,

identical faces, extremely pale skin,

no eyebrows, no eyelashes
and abnormally large eyes.

A woman who spoke with the

men claimed that she felt

that the men knew what she was thinking.

Is this video proof that the MIB exist?

Or is this video simply an internet hoax?

- [Brent] Can I be 100% honest?

- [Ryan] Yeah.

- [Brent] I'm really trying here.

They literally just

look like business men.

- [Ryan] So you just think

there's two abnormally large-

- [Brent] They were abnormally large?

- [Ryan] They looked-

- [Brent] Oh look, they look the same!

The one pixel, it's so blurry.

- [Ryan] Okay, look at this

fucking, this guy right here.

The fucking guy standing next to the door.

- [Brent] Okay.

- [Ryan] Look at him next to them.

Unless he's super tiny-

- [Brent] Are basketball players aliens?

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] No.

- [Brent] Is Kobe? Is your

precious Kobe an alien.

- [Ryan] No, he's, oh,

he might be actually.

- [Brent] Yeah, he might be.

- [Ryan] Unfortunately, most cases of UFO

or alien encounters come in the form

of first-person accounts and

the MIB are no different.

Do they exist, are they

from the government,

are they even human?

Ultimately, it comes
down to what you believe.

Me personally, I believe that

while they may not be aliens,

even I can't believe that,

I do believe that there

may be a government agency

out there that would

regulate these sort of things

to prevent mass-hysteria.

- I can give you, I can buy,

I can buy into the fact

that the Men in Black

may be a real thing,

but I cannot give you the satisfaction

that they're covering up aliens.

- There are certain things,

like ghosts, or aliens,

or demons, that don't-

- Well, no, I'd say if those exist,

then that becomes part of the science

an there's an explanation
behind those things,

and it's logical.

- This is where

we'll always disagree

because not everything

can be explained by science

or logic, in my opinion.
- No, no, no, no, no,

No!

(eerie music)

- One day there's gonna

be definitive proof,

one of these things-

♪ One day more ♪

There's gonna be definitive

proof of something happening

and I'm gonna be there when

that day happens, Brent.

- This is when we know the

video is over. (laughs)

- No, I'm gonna be

there and you know what?

Yeah, you go walk away like you always do,

but one day it's gonna happen

and trust me, sir, I will be there.

And I won't even say anything,

I'll just smile at you, like this.

- [Brent] All right.

- This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved"

we're covering the Illuminati.

Is is a real thing?

What the hell is it?

- It's not a thing.

- Alright, approach it with an

open mind, let's get started.

- Great.

- [Ryan] Shockingly, the Illuminati

actually has a very real

historical foundation.

In 1776, in Bavaria, Germany,

Adam Weishaupt, a German professor,

inspired the ideal of French philosophy.

Mainly secularism and rational thought,

decided to form an organization

to protect those beliefs.

Adam Weishaupt considered

joining the Freemasons

to help propagate his

views but unfortunately,

could not afford the admission fee.

(both laughing)

- [Brent] So this is already

a poor man's something.

- [Ryan] Yeah.

Basically, I didn't
think about it that way

but yeah, you're right.

So instead, Weishaupt formed

a secret group of his own.

He called it, The Order of the Illuminati.

- [Brent] So this is just a bunch of hobos

and rapscallions
- No.

- Who-
- Give 'em a chance.

- [Brent] Meetin' down

by the train tracks.

- I don't think they

met by the train tracks

it was probably a
basement, kinda like this.

It was probably something like this.

- Yeah, well, we'll bet, yeah.

- I don't know why I'm holding that, okay.

The Illuminati had an

anti-religious stance
and focused on the
goals of self-knowledge,

self-improvement, social
reform and free thought.

Naturally, conservatives
considered this a threat

to the church and by

the mid to late 1780s,

the Illuminati was stopped and

the act of recruiting people

into secret societies was criminalized.

However, Weishaupt and the Illuminati

would go Kobe in the fourth quarter.

- [Brent] Okay, all

right. Let's, keep going.

- [Ryan] And continue to push

on, persisting with meetings

and eventually spreading to France

before disappearing into obscurity.

But, some people believe, they survived.

Here's part of an interview

I had with an expert.

- Well they believe that the

core group was formed back then

and has evolved and so back in the 1920s,

there were some fascists who

believed that the Illuminati

were a group of Jews who

controlled the world.

Right after World War II,

extremist anti-communists

believed that the Illuminati

were a group of communists

who controlled the world and most recently

the Illuminati conspiracy

theorists believe
that the Illuminati are
part of the New World Order.

- [Ryan] Many people

believe the Illuminati

seek to make a dominant one

world totalitarian government,

referred to as the New World Order.

In fact, in a 2013 national

poll by public policy polling,

28% of voters polled believed

in the possibility of a New World Order.

- [Brent] 28% of people probably believe

that the sun moves around the earth.

- [Ryan] Well, I don't

have an scientific polls

for that, so.

- [Brent] I'm just

saying, people are dumb.

- [Ryan] (laughs) Okay.

Some people believe that the

influence of the Illuminati

and the New World Order,

goes as high as the president

of the United States.

Here's an eerie clip from an

old George H.W. Bush speech

when he was in office.

- We have before us,

the opportunity to forge

for ourselves and for future generations,

a New World Order, a world

with the rule of law,

not the law of the jungles,

governs the conduct of nations,

when we are successful and we will be.

We had a real chance at

this New World Order.

An order in which a
credible United Nations

can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill

the promise and vision

of the UN's founders.

- [Brent] He does have

a weird little smile

when he says it.

- [Ryan] You know that

part where he was like,

"If this New World Order

could be successful"

and then he looks "And it

will be," that's not creepy?

That didn't make you

spine tingle a little bit?

- [Brent] Look, he's the

president of the United States,

he has to be forthright,

he has to be confident.

What do you, what would it,

what kind of message would it send

if he was like, "If this is

successful, let's hope so!"

(Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] All this begs the question,

what is the New World

Order and what will it do?

Assuming the Illuminati

and the New World Order

are one in the same, let's

hop down the rabbit hole

and take a look at some of the theories

as to who is in the New World Order.

This first theory is from

a man named Mark Koernke.

AKA "Mark from Michigan."

A right wing militia

activist and propagandist

who believes that the New World Order

is made above the U.S. Government, the UN

and various other organizations

pushing an international agenda.

He believes this organization

will take away American's rights,

form an all powerful government

and put non-Illuminati members

in camps run by F.E.M.A.

- [Brent] So 1% of the
world is going to put 99%

of the world in camps?

At that point, by the

way, the camps are so big

that the 1% is inside them.

- [Ryan] Look, it's hard to

defend Mark from Michigan.

I'm not gonna lie.

This is just one of the theories

of to who is in this New

World Order or Illuminati.

- [Brent] Oh, I can't wait

for the parade other

experts you've got lined up.

- [Ryan] Okay, the second

theory is from David Icke

who believes that world leaders

including Queen Elizabeth,

President Barack Obama and the Clintons

are actually shape shifting wizards.

- [Brent] So this is the
one that you're really into?

You believe this one?

- [Ryan] I never said that.

I just said there's other ones.

These lizard elite are

behind the Freemasons

and the Illuminati.

The lizard race feeds off the human race

and occasionally demands human sacrifices.

In fact, the same 2013 national

poll I mentioned earlier

revealed that 4% of voters

polled believe that, quote,

"Lizard people control our societies."

- [Brent] 4% of voters?

- [Ryan] That's actually

a pretty good amount

of people that believe there

are shape-shifting lizards

at the center of everything.

- [Brent] Is there an origin

story for these lizard people?

- [Ryan] I'm sure there is.

I figured, you know what?

I don't know if I need to know that.

The third theory is

that the New World Order

is connected to the anti-Christ

because the Illuminati are Satanists.

Pat Robertson, a conservative Christian

wrote a book on the New World Order,

that claims the group is responsible

for the French Revolution,

the writing of the Communist Manifesto

and the creation of the Federal Reserve,

all in the service of making, quote

"A new order for the human

race under the domination

"of Lucifer and his followers," end quote.

- [Brent] So the Federal

Reserve was created

to spite Jesus?

Lucifer was like, puling numbers.

- [Ryan] I mean, you've got

a lotta time on your hands,

right, if you're Lucifer.

- [Brent] He's busy!

- [Ryan] Why would he be busy?

Hell is supposed to be an awful place,

I imagine the place is

terribly maintained.

- [Brent] He's torturing the souls

of all the monsters throughout history.

There's a lot of dead people

and he's like, poking

them all with lil' sticks!

- [Ryan] The fourth theory

is from Donald Marshall

who believes that the Illuminati

are killing celebrities

and replacing them with clones,

used to brainwash society.

- [Brent] Clones though,

like they're not coming out fully baked.

They're babies.

- [Ryan] Well, that's one theory.

Some believe it could be like a,

you know, like a Xerox machine.

- [Brent] Xeroxing is not

how cloning works, Ryan!

- [Ryan] How do you know?

What? Are you a clone expert now?

I'm just saying that's a possibility!

- [Brent] You're creating a similar embryo

with the same DNA, it has to grow!

- [Ryan] There's no way we

could tell what's actually

like the process.

- [Brent] I mean, we can tell

because they have cloned things.

- [Ryan] What things have they cloned?

- [Brent] A sheep.

- [Ryan] I don't believe you.

- [Brent] Look it up.

- [Ryan] I'll fuckin'

look it up right here.

- Look up Dolly the sheep.

- All right fine I'll look it up

and did she start off

as a little baby sheep?

- Yes.

- Whatever, okay,

apparently there was a

sheep clone, whatever.

- Oh, apparently.

- [Ryan] Purported celebrity clones outed

by internet sleuths include

Beyonce, Eminem, Al Roker.

- [Brent] Al Roker, hang on.

- [Ryan] Yeah, who could
he possibly influence?

Even when the tells the weather.

- [Brent] I don't believe a word he says.

- [Ryan] And many more,

but clone theorists

also believe they have video evidence.

- Marshall Mathers, some of

you may know him as Eminem

but he's gonna join

the Saturday night crew

with a music intro starting

next Saturday night

but folks I wanna take

you the world premier.

(eerie music)

Marshall are you okay?

- Yeah, sorry, live TV.

(men laughing)

Live TV freaks me out a little bit.

- Well there you go, live TV

freaks him out a little bit.

- Well, here's Al Roker's clip.

Notice what she's says,

and then notice what his face goes to.

- [Shane] Why is this a code word.

- Some people believe maybe

it's like a trigger sequence

where his brain's now receiving

instructions and being mind control.

- Al Roker's like the Manchurian candidate

and he's gonna kill the president.

- (laughs) Yeah.
- Like they say in Catholic school,

leave room for the Holy Ghost.

(mystery music)

- [Ryan] The expression he has

on his face when he's frozen,

is so fuckin' funny to
me, every time I watch it

'cause I don't know what

it is, it's like look.

- [Shane] You know what actually,

he looks like he just pooped his pants.

(Ryan laughing)

Who's next?

- This is Beyonce, by the way,

she did this for so long, I

had to speed up the video.

(eerie music)

There she is going and then I

fast forwarded the video here.

She's in some weird trance,

I actually don't know what she's doing.

- [Shane] She's writing

Lemonade in her head right now.

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] Whether or not people

believe this clone theory,

many conspiracy theorists agree,

that major celebrities

are in the Illuminati.

They point to clothing

choices and hand gestures.

Mainly that of a pyramid,

which is seen as an Illuminati symbol,

as proof that certain celebrities

are in the Illuminati.
Beyonce and Jay-Z have been known

to make a pyramid like

symbol with their hands.

Although, this is also

similar to the symbol

for Jay-Z's label, Rockefeller Records.

- Right (laughs).

- But the flip on that,

perhaps there's a reason

why he chose that symbol,

see what I just did there?

- Yeah, you did it right.

- I did it.

The name of their child, Blue Ivy,

has been interpreted to stand for,

born living under evil,

Illuminati's very youngest.

(Ryan laughing)
(Brent sighs)

- Wow, I can't believe they

would name her something

with so obvious of a
secret message in there.

- [Ryan] However, both stars have denied

their affiliation with

the Illuminati in songs.

Here's a excerpt from

Beyonce's Formation, quote

"Y'all haters corny with that

Illuminati mess," end quote.

And here's excerpt from Jay-Z's verse

in a song "Free Mason,"

quote, "I said I was

amazing, not that I'm a mason

"I'm red hot, I'm on my third six,

"but a devil I'm not," end quote.

- [Brent] Is this their game?

Do they claim that the Illuminati like

to just tease people with little hints?

- [Ryan] In my mind, okay,

I'm in this very, very

elite 1% club, right.

But it's a secret club.

- [Brent] You can't tell anyone about it.

- [Ryan] But it's fuckin' dope

that I'm in this club, right?

- [Brent] Yeah.

- So let me just give a lil' wink, wink,

to let people know what's up.

Other celebrities include Kanye West,

who owns a necklace containing the symbol

of the eye of Horus, which is associated

with the Illuminati and also

seen on the dollar bill.

Which by the way, the Fed, dollar bill,

there it is right there,

it's pretty obvious.

Kayne's interruption of Taylor Swift

at the 2009 Video Music Awards was said

to be a method of initiating Taylor Swift

into the Illuminati by

humiliating or hazing her.

- [Brent] So this has just moved

to like, frat-level hazing?

- [Ryan] However, here's a quote

from Kanye on the Illuminati, quote,

"I'm tired of people pinpointing musicians

"as the Illuminati.

"That's ridiculous.

"We don't run anything, we're

celebrities," end quote.

Other celebrities that have been accused

of being in the Illuminati include

Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Madonna and Katy Perry

just to name a few.

- [Brent] I bet, you know what?

I bet Kobe is in the Illuminati.

(room rumbling)

- See what you just did.

- Jesus Christ.

(both laughing)

I'm sorry, Kobe.

- The whole room is shaking right now.

Oh my God, I think we
just had an earthquake.

- I'm sorry, Kobe.

- [Ryan] Keep in mind

that it's pretty easy

to make a claim that somebody

is in the Illuminati.

Hell, quickly perusing

my co-worker Quinta
Brunson's Instagram feed,

I could see several

references to the Illuminati.

- [Shane] Really?

- [Ryan] Just looking

through the pictures.

Yeah, there's even a

picture where I myself

make the Rockefeller sign,

in one of her pictures
and it was quickly
called out by a comment,

Illuminati confirmed.
- That's great.

- She also seems to be absent

from her desk quite frequently.

Perhaps to attend to Illuminati affairs.

What if you're in the Illuminati?

- Look, I am not in the Illuminati.

- Wink.

- I am not in the Illuminati,

Quinta's not in the

Illuminati, you may be.

- It is pretty hard to get into.

And on that note, I'd like

to point to a website called

IlluminatiOfficial.org and on that site,

there's a page called join the Illuminati.

A very fascinating proposition indeed.

So I reached out for an interview

and here's what I got back

from their public relations director.

By the way, if the

Illuminati is a real thing,

the fact that they have a PR director?

- [Brent] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Fucking amazing, right?

That's super funny to me

that there's someone sitting

in a cubicle somewhere going,

that's not the right move.

Too many triangles on the last dress.

- [Brent] Roker's staring
at the camera again.

We gotta make a new Roker.

Goddammit, that's our fourth Roker.

- Here's what the alleged

Illuminati PR director

wrote back in response to

my interview request, quote,

"Unfortunately members
of the Illuminati are not

"currently available for on

camera interviews," end quote.

She also mentioned, quote,

"There are many misconceptions

"about my client's
organization," end quote,

and referred me to the

website's beliefs section.

Which, is abstract and quite

interesting to say the least

but let's visit the

professor one more time.

I guess the last question would be,

what percentage would you put on

that the Illuminati is

actually a real thing.

- Well it was a real thing, back in 1780

but it's not a real thing anymore.

I would say 100%, it's not a real thing.

Most of the conspiracy

theories make this crazy leap

at some point, where you're

following the trail of evidence

and it makes sense and it

makes sense and it makes sense

and suddenly, it's crazy.

- I could see a world

where sometimes things go
beyond science or fact,

that leap of faith is

what you need to make,

to get to the truth.

Maybe that's just the crazy

person inside me. (laughs)

- I like how you just out yourself

as one of the crazy people

that she finds exhausting.

- Here's the thing, I

saw the look on her face

when I mentioned that, she

did not looked pleased.

Am I gonna say outright the

Illuminati is a real thing?

No, I'm not gonna say

that but, is it possible?

Yeah, it's possible, why not?

The fact that there could be some,

all knowing organization under everything.

- Are they Skyping, how are they meeting,

where are they meeting?

They're like, oh let's just

meet in Toledo this year,

at the Radisson.

(room rumbling)

- We've angered them again.

- Yeah.

- Don't talk about Toledo.

(both laughing)

The point I'm saying is,

nothing's impossible.

Sometimes you just gotta look at something

with an open mind, it may
seem crazy on the surface

and I will admit, this all looks crazy.

- So it is possible that
there's an organization

founded by lizard people,

who regularly abduct

and clone celebrities.

- Oh, man, I'm not saying

saying that there's lizard,

ah fuck, that is what I'm saying.

- Say lizard people out loud.

- No.
- Yeah.

- No (laughs).

- Own it, Ryan, say

lizard people out loud.

- We could sit here and

talk about this all day

but regardless, the

existence of the Illuminati

will remain unsolved.

(eerie music)

We're on our way to the Winchester.

- [Shane] This is a ghost town.

- We're in Mexico.

Terrifying Island of the Dolls.

It's gonna be our showdown

with the demon to end the trip.

What the fuck was that?

(Ryan screams)

(Shane laughs)

Today on "Buzzfeed Unsolved,"

we cover multiple cases and visits,

some of the most haunted,
horrifying places

in the world in an effort

to answer some questions

that I've always been curious about.

Are ghosts and demons

real, and if they are real,

can they manipulate, harm, and

perhaps even kill the living?

Right now, we're in San Jose, California

at Sacred Heart Church to

talk to Father Gary Thomas.

In 2005, Father Thomas was

sent all the way to Rome

to the Vatican to learn

the right of exorcism.

A movie was actually based

on his experiences in Rome

starring Anthony Hopkins.

Basically, this dude's the real deal.

We're gonna be happy that we talked to him

and had his guidance when we

go to some of these places.

- Yeah, I think so, we better

stock up on some knowledge

here otherwise we're gonna

get murdered by ghosts.

- You're gonna be thankful

that we're meeting this guy

later, I promise you, I promise you,

you will regret that statement.

(mysterious music)

First off, thank you for

meeting with us, Father Thomas.

- Sure.

- I've read a lot about you.

- Oh, thanks.
- We really appreciate it.
- Thank you.

- How many exorcisms have you

preformed over your career?

- Formal exorcisms,

I've probably performed

50 to 75 in 10 years.

- What is the difference

between a ghost and a demon?

- A ghost would refer to

a disembodied human soul.

A demon is a preternatural
angelic creature

that rebelled against God.

- It's not human.

- No it's not, their life form is dying.

They have been dying since

the moment they rebelled.

And so they are attracted to

human beings for two reasons.

One, because they are a parasitic

and they feed off our

life form, but secondly,

their goal is to take as

many of us to hell with them

as possible, because they

already know they've lost.

I'm not trying to-

- Oh, no, I just got a

shiver down my spine.

So can't a ghost and a demon both possess

or maybe influence the living?

- Yes, and I've had those cases.

Where are these homes you're going into?

- One of them is nearby here.

The Winchester Mystery House.

Essentially it's a haunted mansion.

And then the next one

is a haunted doll island

in Mexico City, the last

place is perhaps the scariest,

it's a house infested with a demon.

Do you have any advice

for us going into some

of these places where

we may come into contact

with not so nice spirits?

- Are we still on camera?

- Yeah.

- Okay, if these places you're going claim

to have spiritual attachments,

I would do nothing to invite them

into any kind of conversation.

I would do nothing to invite

them to somehow show them self

or taunt them in any way.

You don't want to create a tie with them.

- So treat it like a fine art museum.

- I would.

- Would it be possible for you to perhaps

bless some water or

something for me to carry?

- Yes, do you have something?

- It's literally just a water bottle.

- That's fine, I can bless it.

In the name of the Father and of the Son

and of the Holy Spirit, in

your kindness hear our prayers

and pour down the

blessing into this element

so that the health obtained

by calling upon your holy name

may be made secure against all attack

through Christ our Lord, amen.

- Thank you.
- Sure.

- Thank you for sitting down with us

and thank you for-

- Sure.

Was this helpful?

- Fascinating.

- Yeah.

- This was super helpful

and I feel a lot better

about what's about to happen.

- Good, good.

- I just feel so comforted right now

and where we're about to go,

it's gonna be the exact opposite, so.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- You're not worried about that at all?

- [Shane] No.

- (groans) Why are we doing this?

I don't know if we got this on camera,

but he told me, do not be afraid.

I mean, I won't lie, I'm very scared, but.

- Okay. Do not be afraid.

- If anything happens,
just do not be afraid.

That's all you have to keep repeating.

He said it a bunch of times in the Bible.

- [Shane] Jesus said chill.

- (laughs) Jesus said chill, yeah, sure.

Alright, right now we're on

our way to the Winchester.

Just met with the pastor.

- Got our holy water, got

our tips, our demon tips.

(ominous music)

- Uh.
- This looks like Disney Land.

I wouldn't be surprised if
they got cotton candy in there.

- Yuk it up, man, yuk it up,

you're really enjoying this,

but when the lights go off,

this may be a little different.

- [Shane] This is beautiful!

- Ah, man.

You are full of shit if you

do not feel strange right now.

- [Shane] No, I don't.

- You're such a fuckin' shyster, dude.

The hair on the back of my

neck is standing up, man,

this is crazy.

Right now, we're sitting in

the bedroom of Sarah Winchester

who built this mansion as the

result of a terrible tragedy.

Sarah actually passed

away in this very room

in that bed right there.

- Hell of a bed, I assure you

in like half of the places

you've been, people have died there.

People have probably died in

the Chipotle we just ate at.
- Let's just get into it.

- Okay.

- [Ryan] Sarah Pardee was born around 1840

to a very wealthy family.

In 1862 in her early 20's,

Sarah married William Winchester

whose father, Oliver

Winchester founded the company

that made the Winchester repeating rifle,

a rifle that will become

the ultimate weapon of death

in the wars to come.

In 1866, Sarah and William

had their first child,

Annie Pardee Winchester,

but unfortunately their daughter would die

from a disease called marasmus

only a month and a half later.

In 1880, William's father,

Oliver Winchester passed away

leaving the company to William,

but William contracted

tuberculosis shortly after

and tragically died in March 1881

only a few months after his father.

- [Shane] Ugh.

- [Ryan] That was the most disingenuous-

- [Shane] (laughs) No, that was-

- [Ryan] (laughs) I don't know what-

- [Shane] That was real!

- [Ryan] Okay, now that

we've laid down the facts,

let's get into the legend.

William's death was almost
unbearable for Sarah,

who according to legend,

reached out to spiritualists

and mediums in Boston to help

her understand the deaths

of her daughter and husband.

Many believe that it was one fateful visit

to a particular medium
that would change her life.

The medium told Sarah that

her family was being haunted

by the spirits of those killed

by the Winchester rifle,

and that her family members'

deaths were retribution.

The medium said Sarah's family was cursed,

and that the only way to lift

the curse was to move west

and build a house and never stop building.

(both laughing)

- [Shane] Well, I think I

know the end of this story.

- [Ryan] The good spirits would

guide her on what to build

and if she continued building,

she could live forever.

But if she stopped, the evil

spirits that were victims

of the Winchester rifle

would haunt Sarah forever.

- [Shane] If you can live forever, great.

But if you have to

continue to build a house

that entire time, unless

you're having fun,

which I don't think she was.

- [Ryan] Well, she wasn't
like, putting on a hard hat

and like physically

making the house herself.

She was delegating.

- [Shane] Well then that's

why she didn't live forever!

(Ryan laughs)

'Cause she found a loophole!

- [Ryan] I won't argue

that your logic is flawed.

I just hate it because it's

detrimental to my argument.

- [Shane] It's fine.

- [Ryan] Needless to say, Sarah

followed the medium's advice

and moved west where she built

an eight room farm house in San Jose.

It is estimated that 500

to 600 rooms were built,

but due to her constant

remodeling, only 161 rooms remain,

one of which was newly

discovered in October 2016.

- [Shane] You think the ghost

just checked in every like,

(Ryan laughs)

three to five years.

- Checked her time card.

- [Shane] Like, we should see

if she's still building that,

otherwise, we gotta kill her.

(Ryan laughs)

- However, what makes this mansion famous

isn't the size or amount of rooms.

It's the odd and peculiar nature

in which they were constructed.

It was built this way in an effort

to confuse the evil spirits

that were haunting and following Sarah.

The walkways are narrow and twist and turn

around the mansion, there

are stairs that lead

to the ceiling, and doors

that open into brick walls.

And in one instance, a door

known as the door to nowhere

that opens to a sheer drop

on the outside of the house

from the second floor.

I can't imagine a ghost would get foiled

into falling into these bushes down here,

but the thought is nice.

(both laughing)

All right, now that we've

established the legend,

let's discuss some

possible alternate theories

as to why Sarah built the way she did.

One theory that explains

some unfinished aspects

of the house is Sarah's arthritis

that affected her late in her life.

One area, called the hall of fires

is a hallway lined with fireplaces.

Its purpose to perhaps

aid Sarah's arthritis.

This could provide a reason

for an unfinished staircase
as she possibly saw no
reason to complete it.

But I struggle to see how this

explains a door to nowhere.

- [Shane] Nobody is
building a house like this

because they have arthritis.

- [Ryan] It's a, I'm saying-

- [Shane] That is not a, that is not a-

- [Ryan] This is, this is a theory.

I'm just stating a theory.

- [Shane] No one says, oh, my

knuckles feel a little funny.

I'm going to build a house with 500 rooms.

- [Ryan] I hear ya man, I

hear ya, I agree with ya.

I'm just sayin', this is a

theory that people believe,

and I'm relaying the theory.

- [Shane] Those people are idiots.

- [Ryan] I mean, you know

what the doctor says.

Nothing's better for arthritis

than a two story drop

to the floor down below, right?

- [Shane] (laughs) Right, yeah.

- [Ryan] Another theory is

that Sarah needed a change of scenery

and continued to build

to keep her mind occupied

and off her grief.

- [Shane] Now that, yeah.

- [Ryan] So-

- [Shane] Maybe she just

wasn't very good at planning.
- [Ryan] And she did that
for her entire life until-

- [Shane] Yeah, for her entire life.

- Okay.
- Hey, we all need hobbies.

- [Ryan] Another theory comes

from historian Mary Jo Ignoffo

who investigated Sarah Winchester.

Ignoffo believes Sarah

was devoted to building

because she was interested

in architecture.

Ignoffo reports that

Sarah's own letters reveal

that construction stopped

at months at a time

despite what legend would suggest.

Ignoffo also explains the

unfinished state of rooms

as a result of an earthquake in 1906

that caused damage to the house

theorizing that Sarah

simply shut down that area

of the house rather

than attempting repairs.

And finally she also

could not find evidence

that Sarah communicated with spirits.

Although, I will say, I

can't imagine communicating

with spirits produces any kind of receipt.

- [Shane] No, nobody has evidence of that.

- [Ryan] Okay, I'm just saying,

I call bullshit on that.

- [Shane] That'd be, yeah, I agree with

your calling of bullshit.

- Good.

I'm glad we agree on something for once.

- [Shane] Yeah, yeah, we've done it.

- [Ryan] Okay, we, we've

done it, let's go home now.

But enough conjecture, let's look at some

of the spiritually active areas

of this very unsettling house.

Oh, this room looks like

a nightmare, that's fun.

- [Shane] There's a few rooms

in this house that strike me

as okay, this is a ghost

town, this could be it.

- [Ryan] Uh.

- Oh, the way the shadows play

with your, with your mind.

- Well, I didn't see

something, I heard something.

I heard a noise right up

there, came from up there.

- [Shane] Probably bats.

- That's also a concern I mean, but-

- [Shane] Oh, bats are normal.

- Ugh, this fuckin' guy.

One room that is particularly

important is a room called

the blue room, or as some

know it, the seance room.

A room where Sarah would

allegedly communicate

with the good spirits on a nightly basis

for building guidance.

The room has three entrances

and one door that is

like a trap door dropping

into the kitchen down below.

And not surprisingly, this is

one of the most active rooms

in the house with reports

of organ music being heard,

cold spots, and people

experiencing dizziness.

- [Shane] What is this thing

doing, it's making noises.

- What is?

(computer beeps)

I just took out a brand new battery,

I just took off the plastic

from it and put it in,

and it drained it all the way to zero.

- This is highly unusual, I've

never seen it do this before.

- I'm just gonna ignore

you and fix the issue.

- I'm gonna lock myself

in here with a ghost.

I turned my flashlight off.

This is horrifying, I bet

Ryan wouldn't do this.

(door thuds)

- Oh fucking come on, man.

(knuckles knocking)

Goddammit, I knew he was gonna do that,

it still scared me, fuck you.

(Shane laughs)

The house as a whole has reports

of hearing people breathing, footsteps,

hearing screws being unscrewed

and dropped to the floor,
full body apparitions of servants

with the most famous

spirit being Sarah herself

often seen in her bedroom.

Naturally, one of the creepiest

and most active places

in the entire house is the basement

(dramatic music)

where guests and workers

often claimed to see the ghost

of a caretaker named Clyde

pushing a wheel barrow.

(footstep tapping)

Why I'm walking here by my

fucking self is beyond me.

Ah fuck, I'm so scared.

Ah, man.

All right, apparently this is where

a recurring ghost is seen.

(voice whispers)

Ah! Oh God!

- [Shane] What are you, hey

man, calm down (laughs).

- [Ryan] You piece of shit, Shane.

- My mic went out, and

then I was looking for you.

- [Ryan] He's crouching in here

like some kind of cave creature.

- And then all I did was I

went, (gasps) I was just-

- Oh yeah!
- Comin' in here

to say hello to you!

- [Ryan] You're looking for me

while grunting like a zombie.

- Eh.

- You almost scared me to death.

I'm never gonna forgive you for that.

Hope you're fuckin' proud of yourself.

- [Shane] I thought you saw me.

- [Ryan] Bullshit, you thought I saw you.

- [Shane] really didn't

think it was gonna work.

- [Ryan] Sarah seemingly

lived a life of solitude.

She reportedly wore a dark

veil at almost all times

to mask her appearance, and in 1922,

Sarah died at the age of 83.

In the end, the questions remain.

Was this just the result of

a woman filled with grief?

Or, were there evil spirits

that haunted Sarah Winchester

so horrifying that they drove

her and perhaps possessed her

to build until her death?

- She probably believed that

spirits did say this to her.

Whether or not that's a thing

that actually happened, you know.

- So you're saying, it's more

along the lines of grief.

- Yeah.
- That produced, perhaps.

- [Shane] I mean, she went through

some pretty harrowing stuff.

- Let me just ask you straight out,

do you believe ghosts are real right now?

- Uh, no.

- [Ryan] Why do you not

believe ghosts are real?

- I've never seen one.

- Okay, I mean, there's a lot

of things that you can't see

that you, are real, I feel like.

- What can't I see?

- You can't see gravity, that's real.

- Yeah, I can drop an apple.

- Fuck.

(Shane laughs)

I guess you will just,

you'll just never believe me

until something happens.

- Look, hey, this entire trip, I'm ready.

Hey, ghosts, tussle my hair!

- I would do nothing to
invite them to somehow

show them self or taunt them in any way.

- Uh, gimme, gimme a little

purple nerple or something,

let's have some fun.

- (laughs) Purple nerple.

- Here I am.

- [Ryan] Regardless, the real

reason behind the creation

of the Winchester Mystery

House will remain unsolved.

- I'm so proud of her for

doing this, by the way.

It's really something.

- You're the worst.

- No, I genuine, like this is neat.

- If I have to spend one more

moment sitting in this chair

looking at that silly face,

I think I may murder you myself (laughs).

All right, we're getting out of here.

- [Shane] Okay.

- Yeah, let's leave this house.

Checkin' outta San Jose.

- Onward!

- [Ryan] Onward to uh, Mexico.

- Yeah, why not?

(upbeat music)

- So we're in Mexico,
so that's pretty cool.

Uh, we don't have to go

to our next horrible place

until tomorrow, so I think we're gonna

enjoy the city a little bit tonight.

All right, all right, all right.

I don't know if this is a sign,

but I'm in the bathroom at this bar,

and this mirror literally

has blood dripping from it.

Oh my god.

But I'm gonna go order

another beer, so we're good.

- [Group] Salud, salud!

- [Ryan] We're getting a drink in Mexico,

and we ran into the

Grim from Harry Potter.

(woman laughs)
This is crazy!

Mexico City is such a nice city.

- [Shane] Yeah, it is.

- Shame we're on our way to a nightmare.

- [Shane] You're on
your way to a nightmare.

I'm on my way to a nice little retreat.

- [Ryan] Okay, we'll see.

(dramatic music)

Right now, we're uh, we're

being carted over to the dock.

- [Shane] We were just sort

of put on here, I don't know.

- I guess that's how

easy it is to trick us.

(both laughing)

Get on, get on, get on!

Okay!

Oh fuck!

That was almost a two bike

trolley collision right there.

So uh, I'm actually not quite

sure where we are right now.

- No, it's fine, just

go with the flow, Ryan.

- That's what people usually

say on the way to their death.

(dramatic music)

So we survived our
little trolley over here.

We're joined by Pepe from BuzzFeed Mexico.

- Hola amigos.

- Right now, we're on the

outskirts of Mexico City

in the ancient Aztec canals of Xochimilco

heading to our next location,

the terrifying Island of the Dolls.

(dramatic music)

This was mistake, oh yeah,

there's also a thunderstorm

about to roll in, so that's fine.

- [Shane] Eh.

- He looks fine, look at, the kid's fine.

And I feel like a big weiny.

- [Shane] You are a big weiny.

(dramatic music)

- It's been said that people

don't like these canals

due to the bad energy.

Those who navigate the canals

claim the dolls lure them

to the island.

One trajinera operator claims

that he was even possessed

for multiple days when

approaching the island.

This is the beginning of

a horror movie right now.

We're here and it's raining.

Lovely.

Shall we?

- Yup.
- You go, you go first.

- Oh, I go first? Oh, okay.

An ominous cloud in the sky.

Some very, very atmospheric thunder.

- [Ryan] Well this seems all

horrible and awful in general.
- So this is, so, wow.

- (laughs) Speechless.

- Someone committed their life to this.

- [Ryan] Look, there's spiders

everywhere, so that's nice.

- [Shane] See, I'm more concerned

about the spiders than the ghosts.

- Is that right?

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] This island is

not as pleasant at night.

- [Shane] So Pepe, you're telling me

you don't come here every weekend?

- Yeah, where is Pepe?

- No, I this is not one

of my favorite places.

(all laughing)

- [Ryan] In the 1950s in Mexico,

Don Julian Santana Barrera

was persecuted for being overzealous

in his religious beliefs.

After that, for reasons unclear,

Julian abandoned his wife

and child and moved to the

island we're at tonight

in the Xochimilco canals in

the outskirts of Mexico City.

The island we're sitting on is a chinampa,

a man made floating garden engineered

by the Aztecs centuries ago.

- Dope. I'm sure they'd be

thrilled with what it's become.

- You think this is what they had in mind?

- Oh yeah, definitely.
- Oh, monkey!

- Monkey?

- Nah, I thought I got bit in

the ass cheeks by a spider.

There's a lot of spiders here.

- Ah, they're huge.

- Julian lived on this

island in isolation.

And the story goes that

he discovered the body

of a young girl off the

shore of the island.

Julian was reportedly overcome with grief

due to the fact that he could

not save this little girl.

Legend has it that shortly

after her body emerged,

a doll appeared where her body was.

I don't even know how deep this water is.

Like if someone were to

drown in this, I feel like,

it looks like it's shallow,

but I guess it's deceiving.

- [Pepe] Ah, this place is creepy.

- [Ryan] Yep.

(ominous music)

- [Pepe] Oh, look, a teddy bear. (laughs)

Oh, fuck, a spider (laughs).

- [Ryan] Julian thought that the doll

probably belonged to the girl

and he hung it up on a tree on the island.

His reasons for doing this vary,

depending on who is telling the story.

Some believe he did this to
honor the little girl's spirit.

Others believed he did

this to appease the spirit

and protect himself and the island.

Another variation is
that Julian hung the doll

to protect the girl's spirit

from demons in the afterlife.

Whatever the reason is,

the girl's existence

has never been officially confirmed.

- Okay, wait the dead girl wasn't?

- The dead girl was not confirmed.

- Well, what happened to her body?

- I don't know, this was a long time ago.

- What'd he do with it?

- I don't know, we're

in the canals of Mexico,

this is like, I don't

know how things work,

is that how things work?

- I thought it was the 1950s.

- Probably spiders ate her.

(Shane and Ryan laughing)

- [Ryan] However, Julian

didn't stop at one doll.

Instead he began to amass

perhaps the creepiest collection

in the history of collections.

Perhaps he felt the more dolls he hung up,

the more protected he

would be from the spirit.

- [Shane] He'd get along well

with ol' Sarah Winchester.
- [Ryan] One could say that.

- [Shane] He has a lifelong

mission to appease the ghosts.

- [Ryan] I think it's

more a protection thing.

He just doesn't want to die.

- [Shane] He is wearin' a
Kevlar vest in that case.

(all laughing)

- [Ryan] He would hunt for

the lost dolls from the canals

and trash near the

island, stringing them up

in whatever dilapidated
condition he found them,

and as his island grew, so

did the island's reputation.

Drawing new visitors

that would trade dolls

for produce grown on the

island, consequently creating

an extraordinarily bizarre barter system.

- [Pepe] He probably fucks

the dolls, can I say that?

- [Shane] Who, I thought

you would have like

some respect for this place, but-

- [Ryan] Nope, went in straight

with he fucks the dolls.

- [Shane] Yeah, yeah,

I'm with Pepe on this.

- [Ryan] This is getting way off track.

- [Shane] (laughs) Sorry, okay.

- [Ryan] The compulsion to

collect and hang these dolls

were so extreme that those close to him

believed that he was

driven by an unseen force

that changed him forever,

a force that many believed

was the spirit of the young girl haunting,

or perhaps possessing
him to hang the dolls

for 50 straight years in

isolation on this island.

Though he initially
seemed to hang the dolls

out of respect and a

desire for protection,

close friends claimed that

Julian eventually began

to believe the dolls were possessed.

- [Shane] Anytime I get

even remotely spooked,

I just look to the monkey

with the sunglasses.

(Ryan laughs)

Let's get a great shot of that thing.

- [Ryan] Those 50 years bring us to 2001,

when the collecting of

dolls came to an abrupt end.

Julian's nephew Anastasio,

came to the island

to help Julian plant pumpkins.

According to Anastasio, he
left to work on the garden,

and when he returned,

he discovered the body

of his uncle floating in the canal.

What's notably chilling is

the fact that Julian's body

was found drowned in the

same spot the girl was found.

This is where it went down,

this is where he drowned, right here.

- Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

- [Ryan] Anastasio,
who moved to the island

after Julian's death

claims the dolls quote,

"Move their heads and whisper

to each other," end quote.

- [Shane] They've got

dolls that piss themselves.

- [Ryan] The, I mean,

do you think these dolls

look like they have remotely

any kind of technological capability?

- [Shane] There was a

Mickey Mouse over there

with a little pull string.

- [Ryan] Did it work?

- [Shane] I don't know, I didn't touch it.

- [Ryan] I feel though

that you touched it.

- Hi kids.

I did touch it, oh God (laughs).

- Who do you think haunts this island?

(Pepe speaking in foreign language)

(Anastasio speaking in foreign language)

- Is that a bed?
- Is that a guy?

- [Ryan] Wait, what?

- [Pepe] Should we poke it with a stick?

- How about you Shane,

you poke him with a stick.

(dramatic music)

- There's no one there.

This a dream come true for you, Ryan?

- [Ryan] I can't say that.

Don Julian Santana Barrera was

80 at the time of his death.

Some people think that the dolls

or the spirits that inhabit

them might have killed Julian.

- Uh, sure.

(Ryan laughs)

If that's what it's gonna

take to get us out of here,

then yes, I believe in all of this.

Put it on Wikipedia, and let's leave.

- But to finish this

off, let's visit the area

that has the most heightened

activity on the island.

It's a shrine that Julian

built inside a shed

for his favorite dolls,

including the original doll

that Julian found all those years ago.

This is the shed where he kept his shrine,

and there's candles inside, great.

I did bring a little doll of my own.

(eerie music)

This seems like a good

spot to leave it, right?

Or should I put it in
the lap of the original?

- [Shane] This is a fuckin' nightmare.

- [Ryan] Aw, man.

There's the original right here.

- [Shane] What, where?

- [Ryan] The one that looks.

(shed rumbles)

- Oh fuck!
- What he fuck was that?

Holy shit balls!

I was just about to put the

offering on the original doll,

and then-

- [Shane] Holy shit, look at

the spider coming out of it.

- [Ryan] Oh my God. Oh, fuck.

- [Shane] Yeah, these are

fuckin' huge, let's go.

- [Ryan] This is also his

favorite doll right here.

- [Shane] Okay, I don't

care what his favorite,

fuck that, let's go.

(Ryan laughs)

(dramatic music)

- [Ryan] There's cats right there.

Oh fuck me, there are spiders everywhere.

- [Pepe] Look at the size of that thing.

(Ryan hollers)

- [Ryan] I'm gonna go under! (yelps)

- [Shane] Okay, okay, we've had our fun.

We're leaving this island.

- [Ryan] Where's Pepe?

- [Pepe] I'm right here, ah fuck, spiders.

- [Ryan] Spiders, not the dolls! (yells)

(dramatic music)

Jesus Christ, and you just

ran into possessed dolls.
Aye, too-da-loo Julian,
can't say it was pleasurable.

(engine revving)

Okay.

In the end, Julian was remembered

as a nice and welcoming man,

but the mystery of his

eventual death remains.

Was it the result of his

own compulsive behavior?

Or, was it the result of the spirit

that he claimed haunted him

for the last 50 plus years of his life?

For now, and perhaps forever,

the case remains unsolved.

- I like spiders, I
think spiders are good,

I think they're a great

little insect or arachnid,

but fuck everything about that place.

I would love to bring Father

Thomas to this island.

- [Ryan] I don't think Father

Thomas would be that down.

- (laughs) I don't think he would,

what makes you think that?

- Ah, 'cause I don't know if you could

exorcize spiders away.

- Yeah.

(eerie music)

- All right, on the way to Kansas.

It's gonna be our show down

with a demon to end the trip.

- [Shane] We've defeated the spiders.

- [Ryan] Killed all the spiders.

- We set that whole island on fire.

- We survived the spirits of Winchester,

I got my holy water ready,

I'm ready for this showdown.

- I don't think you are, frankly.

(dramatic music)

- Right now, we're on our way to a house

widely considered to be
infested with a demon

that tortured a young family.

The grand finale, we're

going to the Sallie House.

(ominous music)

Everyone thinks feeling

energy is bullshit,

but you don't feel strange at all?

Not even a little bit?

- No, not really.

Oh shit, what up, I'm takin'

a selfie with some demons yo!

Hell yeah, wha!

Great, that'll be good,

I'm gonna snap that.

(dramatic music)

What's the matter?

- You're insufferable.

I was working myself up, dude, you know?

- Sure. Are you all right man?

Let's get in there!

- Yeah, I know, I'm just gonna

get the fuckin' holy water.

- Okay (laughs), okay.

- [Ryan] Joke all you want, and
don't ask me for some later.

- [Shane] I won't.

(door creaks)

All they need is some WD-40.

(doors creak)

(eerie music)

Sure, really sellin' it, huh?

Little baby.

- [Ryan] Hmm, this is nice.

- You know what places like

this would cost in Los Angeles?

An arm and a leg.

- Let's just tell the story

of this house, how about that?

- [Shane] Ryan, don't look over here,

there's a little stuffed animal.

- Don't wanna.

Right now we're sitting

in the living room of the Sallie House,

our sleeping bags are right there.

'Cause we foolishly plan

on sleeping here for some stupid reason.

I've lived my life by one adage

and that's don't fuck with demons.

- It's an adventure!

I just love seein' ya squirm.

- Let's just get into why this house is-

- Okay, tell your spooky story.

- Located at 508 North Second

Street in Atchison, Kansas,

the Sallie House is the

ultimate haunted house

and widely considered to be one

of the most haunted places in America.

Built between 1867 and 1871,

this house has had three

deaths inside it's walls.

Michael Finney in 1872,

William True in 1918,

and Agnes True in 1939,

but while the deaths

have perhaps added to the

house's ghostly inhabitants,

the real evil comes from

something much different.

All right, I think he's here.

So we called a paranormal
investigator over.

- [Shane] Sure.

- Hey.
- How's it goin' man, Ryan.

- Eric Enzbrenner.
- Shane.

- Nice to meet ya.

- [Shane] I think this is all bullshit.

(Ryan laughs)
- Half of it is.

I brought a little bit.

- I'm not gonna communicate with shit.

- I would do nothing to invite them

into any kind of conversation.

- We are.

- You were already doing it during the-

- I'll be, I'll be

standing in the background.

While multiple residents

of the Sallie House

have experienced paranormal activity,

it wasn't until the 1990's

when Debra and Tony Pickman moved in

that the activity was fully realized.

What follows is based on

their first hand account

of what started as a small haunting

and later developed

into a living nightmare.

Debra and Tony Pickman moved

in on December 31st, 1992.

The haunting started small.

Lights in their house would dim,

their dog would bark incessantly

at the entrance to the nursery,

and their newborn baby

would wake up every hour,

quote, "As if someone was

playing with him," end quote.

The Pickmans' neighbor

could see the nursery window

from her house and eventually asked Debra

why she kept the light on in

the nursery all night long

with the baby sleeping in there.

This question came as

an icy shock to Debra,

who always turned the light off.

- Oh.

(Ryan laughs)

- It was a little weird right?

- Yeah.

- All right, anyways,

things got especially weird

on July 14th, 1993, when Debra,

Tony, and her sister Karen

discovered all the stuffed

animals in the nursery

organized into a neat circle back to back

in the middle of the room on the floor.

The three of them figured it was one

of them playing a practical joke,

so they put the animals back,

turned off the light and went downstairs.

To their horror, when they returned,

not only was the light on,

but a bear was knocked off

its chair and laying on

its back on the ground.

(Shane laughs)

- [Shane] We better get out of this house,

somebody knocked our little bear

out of his little wicker chair.

- [Ryan] You're tellin' me

you wouldn't be unnerved

by going upstairs and seeing a bunch

of stuffed animals organized

into a little cult circle

when no one did it?

- [Shane] I don't know.

- [Ryan] After that, like anybody would,

they packed up some

stuff, took their baby,

and left the house to

stay with Tony's parents.

- [Shane] Did they bring the bear?

- [Ryan] I don't believe

they brought the bear.

I mean, there's, I can't imagine

they would bring the bear.

While they were leaving the house,

Tony felt a sharp sting in his back.

When they lifted up his shirt,

they discovered three long scratches.

Tony would continue to

get viciously scratched

as time went on and in one instance,

a scratch manifested while on video.

The Pickmans eventually

would turn to a psychic

who picked up on a presence named Sallie.

- [Shane] Sallie, if you're

here, or any spirit that's here,

let's communicate.

There's a flashlight, if you

can turn the flashlight on,

let us know you're here, that'd be great.

- Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

- [Shane] It's a little monkey!

We saw one of those on the

island of the haunted dolls.

- [Ryan] According to Debra Pickman,

on the morning of October 31st, 1993,

Tony went to grab a glass of

orange juice in the kitchen.

When he turned around,

he saw a little girl in

early 1900's clothing.

Shortly after, he sketched

what he saw for Debra.

- All right, we are in the kitchen.

- [Eric] Please turn the light on for us.

- [Ryan] Please don't, please don't do it.

- [Shane] Demon?

- Stop calling it that.

- Demon!

- [Ryan] Stop it, stop talking to it!

- [Shane] No, I just want

to talk to the demons.

We met a pal named Father Thomas,

he told us not to talk to you,

but I think you guys are swell.

- I would do nothing to invite them

to somehow show themselves

or taunt them in any way.

- [Shane] If you like

the guys stayin' here,

turn the light on.

- [Ryan] You're fucking crazy, Shane.

- [Shane] If you don't

like us, turn it on.

- [Ryan] Please don't

turn on, please don't.

(all screaming)

What the fuck?

- Oh, shit.
- No!

(both laughing)

- Where's my holy water?

- Where's my holy water (laughs).

If you actually don't like us,

please just turn it on.

I don't think they have the

power to turn it back on again,
frankly, I really think
they don't (laughs).

(Ryan screams)

- [Ryan] Are you fucking

kidding me, what the-

- [Shane] Keep in mind, we

have to spend the night here.

- [Eric] Please turn the

light off for us, spirits.

- Don't you fucking do it.

- [Eric] Turn it all

the way off, thank you.

- Oh my God.
- Please try.

- Oh my God, we should have

never talked to it, dude.

- [Shane] That's a car

going by, it's okay.

- No, that's the fucking

flashlight rolling

in the background.

Look, it's coming back.

- Oh, yeah it is.

(eerie music)

It's a flashlight, it
rolls, it's cylindrical!

- [Eric] But it shouldn't

roll back and forth like that.

- What?

You should have never talked to it, dude,

what is wrong with you?

In what may be a curious coincidence,

a former resident who lived in the house

shortly before the Pickmans said, quote,

"My daughter was five at the time.

"She had an imaginary friend, Sallie.

"I would scold her for something,

"And she would come back and tell me

"I didn't do that, Sallie did it,"

Or, "Sallie told me to do it."

When shown Tony Pickman's drawing 11 years

after they moved out of the house,

the daughter identified

it as her imaginary friend

from her childhood.

Do not be afraid, do not be

afraid, do not be afraid,

do not be afraid, do not be afraid.

- Do not be afraid.

- Hey, just take a, sit

down, it's fine, okay,

oh, don't hurt your.

- Oh fuck, okay.

- I mean sure, we don't

know how to explain that.

Maybe it's just, you know,

flashlights are funny like that.

- [Ryan] The Pickmans also reported fires

that would start on their own, in fact,

two former residents before

the Pickmans reported fires

starting inexplicably in the room

that would eventually become

the Pickman's nursery.

The activity continued to

escalate beyond fires, however.

A lamp was thrown at Tony's mother.

Tony reported hearing scratching

behind his bed, quote,

"Almost like you had an animal digging

"To get out of the wall," end quote.

And in one instance,

Sallie appeared in the room

and grabbed Tony's wrist,

burning dark red finger

marks into his arm.

At this point, Tony believed, quote,

"We're dealing with something

way beyond a little girl,"

end quote, and begged to

leave the house, yet Debra,

who at this point never

witnessed anything alarming,

didn't share the same desire.

- [Shane] This was the

'90s, people had, like,

video recorders, you know.

- [Ryan] I mean, the scratches

all happened on camera.

Here's the thing, this

is what I fucking love

about like paranormal evidence,

people are always clamoring for it,

right, like where's the evidence,

and then when the evidence is

finally there it's like, fake.

Things eventually went beyond

physical terror, however.

Here's another quote from Tony.

Quote, "It got to the point where I,

"When I was in the house,

"I could not think any happy thought.

"It was just strictly

I wanted to hurt her.

"I, I was a whole different person.

"That something can come
inside me and make me capable

"Of doing that, I just, it tears me up.

"As much as I hate to say it,

"I'd planned on slitting her throat."

- [Shane] Jesus Christ!

If you slit my throat tonight,

I'm gonna have a hard time

forgiving you for that.

- [Ryan] Would you haunt

me for the rest of my life?

- [Shane] No, 'cause I'll

be dead, ghosts aren't real.

- [Ryan] Well then, oh, okay, fair enough.

In 1994, the Pickmans finally

moved out of the house.

But at this point, you're

probably wondering who is Sallie?

From what I could find,

records show that a Sallie

Isabel Hall did indeed live

in the house in 1905,

but she was actually a

34-year-old black woman.

- [Shane] (laughs) Wait, what?

- [Ryan] Hear me out, hear me out here.

- Okay.
- Okay.

While this may seem damning at first,

the implications of this are

actually quite horrifying.

If there was in fact

never a girl named Sallie who lived here,

then who or what was this

alleged spirit presenting itself
as a little girl named Sallie?

That question led me to

this piece of research.

Sometimes, in human presences,

demons will allegedly

present themselves as humans

that are physically

flawed, or in some cases,

perhaps like this one, they

may appear as children.

(ominous music)

- [Shane] That demon's racist!

He was like oh, there was a,

a black lady who lived here?

Wait a minute, no, I

can't haunt with that.

- [Ryan] Well, demons-

- [Shane] What about a

little, little white girl,

a little blonde one,

I'll give her pigtails.

- [Ryan] Demon's don't-

- [Shane] Fuck that demon,

he's whitewashing the history

of this house, he's exactly

what's wrong with Hollywood.

- [Ryan] Demons don't

present themselves as adults,

that's what I was saying,

they present themselves as-

- [Shane] Ever?

- No!
- This sounds-

- [Ryan] An entity, like

an entity that's not human,

it needs energy, it needs

souls to feed off of,
so if you need that, you
wouldn't immediately come out

with the horns, you'd come

out with a little girl,

that makes sense to me.

- [Shane] Whatever, demon's racist,

I don't respect this demon.

- [Ryan] But what really

suggests the presence of a demon

is something that occurred in the basement

well after the Pickmans left the house.

A female tenant, her

husband, and their children

moved into the house and

reported no paranormal activity.

But on a surprise visit

from landlord Les Smith,

he allegedly discovered
something terrifying

in the basement, a large

pentagram on the floor,

an alter, a large black

kettle, and a black robe.

- [Shane] A pointy hat, a

broomstick, three newts,

a lizard tongue.
- Hey man, this is what he-

- Eyeballs.
- That's what he found!

Many believe that this female

tenant was a Satan worshiper

performing sacrificial rituals.

To this day, there's a

black mark on the floor

where the alleged rituals took place.

Consequently, many believe the demon lives

in this basement, specifically
in the hole in the back wall

which brings me back

to something Father Thomas

told us about demons.

I was reading about

something called infestation

where like, a demon will

just take hold of a house.

- So, if that family was

involved in a Satanic cult,

and they were doing other

kinds of rituals and spells

that are part of the cult, it

would not at all surprise me

if there was something

demonic still attached

because that's where that

cult basically had a home.

- And it opened the portal there.

- Absolutely.

(eerie music)

(chair clanks)

- If you're there in the hole

and you wanna speak to us

or communicate with us,

turn that flashlight on.

- Please don't, please

don't, please don't.

(computer beeping)

- That's me, sorry.

- Oh, thank God, thank you, God.

- So we're giving off high

EMF here because of this.

- Whoa, oh that thing.

- So that's a false read,

but since there's a lot
of electricity coming through the air,

that's saying it could feed a spirit.

- Oh, well that's good, let's

feed it more, why not, right?

He's hungry.

- If you wanna eat my

heart, turn that light on.

(dramatic tones)

I think this demon's a wimp!

- He's lost his mind!

- [Eric] You wanna lay on the pentagram?

- [Shane] Here we go!

- You're outta your mind.

- Rock and roll, buckaroo!

If you wanna eat my

heart, turn that light on.

If you wanna eat Ryan's

heart, turn that light on.

- Don't, stop putting me in your shit.

- Our old pal Ryan Bergara, packin' steel.

Oh, the light's on

Ryan, look at the light!

(suspenseful music)

We got 'im!

(Shane laughs)
- (screams) No!

Fuck this house, dude,

fuck this house so hard.

- [Shane] Aw, now we get

to spend the night here.

- Here's a fun fact about sleeping here.

One past resident described

waking up to a, quote,

"Grotesque and gaunt,

dead looking individual,

"Not only laying next to

her, but staring at her,"

end quote.

- Here's the thing, I

discount almost 100% of

I saw it in the middle

of the night things,

because sleep paralysis, often times,

most people wake up and see shit.

- If I wake up tonight

and there is this grotesque

looking thing laying next to me

and just staring at me

with it's fucking stupid beady eyes open,

I'm gonna shit myself.

There's gonna be poo in my sleeping bag.

You know, I'm just gonna

carry out the sleeping bag.

- You're just gonna roll it up.

- Full of poop.
- Put it in the garbage can.

- I'm gonna roll it up, I'm

gonna put it in the garbage can,

my big fuckin' poo burrito

and that's, that's,

I'm never coming back,

I'll leave all the shit,

I'm fuckin' never coming back.

(eerie music)

The fact that we're sleeping in this house

after what we saw is astounding.

- [Shane] I'm proud of you, Ryan.

- [Ryan] Time to sleep,

lights out I guess. Fuck.
- So we're gonna sleep here all night.

It's gonna be dreadfully quiet.

It is weird thinking
what's directly below us

is that basement.

- Why would you say that?

(Shane laughs)

I'm gonna get closer to you, I don't care.

- (laughs) Okay.

Every little pin drop that you hear,

every little creak, it's gonna

make your butt hole tighten.

- Do not be afraid, do
not be afraid, do not.

I thought I saw something move

out of the corner of my eye.

I will stay in this house til 5:00 a.m.,

if I sleep, I sleep, if I don't, I don't.

- [Shane] I think it would

be asleep full night for me

if it weren't for you.

Oh, the light went out outside.

Did you turn that out?

- No.

- Yeah, you did.

- I didn't, no.

- [Shane] No, weird.

(dramatic music)

- And, nope, I'm man enough

to admit this is not,

this is not happening tonight, I can't.

It's not happening,

it's not happening ever.

- [Shane] (laughs) Okay

man, look, it's okay.

- I think I just blacked out.

- [Shane] You givin' up?

- [Ryan] Don't say it like that.

- [Shane] Well, I mean

that's what's happening.

- Here's what, here's what I'll do.

The witching hour is at 3:00, right?

- [Shane] Why is it 3:00?

- That's to mock the holy trinity.

Sometimes you'll hear three

knocks, that's a demon.

When it hits 3:00 o'clock-

- Uh-huh.

- I will be quiet for three minutes.

- [Shane] No, you won't.

- I will, can you give me

time updates like one minute,

two minutes?
- Yeah.

Three, two, one.

(water bottle rustles)

That's a minute.

(dramatic music)

That's another minute.

(dramatic music)

Done.

- Oh, thank you Jesus Christ.

- Were you freakin' out?

- Yeah!

The wave of relief that just

oh, sweeping over my body

right now, ah, there's

a part of me right now
that feels foolish for getting up, but.

- [Shane] You should feel foolish.

- Are you trying to

convince me to stay in here?

- [Shane] Well, no, I just

think it's silly to just give up

at the last minute, but whatever.

You know, it's no big deal.

Look, you've made up

your mind, you're done.

You don't have it in ya.

- Stop saying that, you're

making me wanna do it!

- [Shane] No, I'm just saying,

you don't have it in you, it's fine.

(dramatic music)

- Do not be afraid.

- You're right, I don't have

it in me, yeah, let's go.

(all laughing)

Let's go, fuck you,

I hope you're fuckin' lookin'

at this now, motherfucker.

- [Shane] Did you just call

the demon a motherfucker?

- I don't give a shit now, I'm gone.

I got my laptop, I got my holy water,

I got the cards I need

here, peace out bitch.

Not even just a single part

of me feels bad about leaving.

Go fuck yourself, Sallie House.

You were truly awful and I hate you.

This is the happiest moment of my life.

- [Shane] I would think it'd
be the most embarrassing, but-

- [Ryan] Nope, I'm pretty happy.

- [Shane] There's the house.

- Cool, fuck that house, goodbye.

In the end, it's up for debate

on what haunts the Sallie House.

The Pickmans seemed to

believe it's a demon.

And in my opinion,

nothing I experienced suggested otherwise.

But as always, the answer

will remain unsolved.

Alright, uh.

(both laughing)

(eerie music)

It's been a couple days, we've

had some time to recuperate

and actually get a gauge of

what we saw or think we saw.

- Really a lot to process.

(Shane laughs)

- You know, the first two

occasions, I wasn't sure.

My confidence was starting to

waiver, even at the last place

til like, about halfway through,

but when that flashlight turned on.

I think that's a proof positive.

Ghosts and or demons are real,

there's no other explanation for it.

- No, I just think it was

a wonderful coincidence.
And I'm glad it happened,

because we got to see you

turn into a babbling mess.

- Coincidence five times in a row?

- He screwed the flashlight

to right in between the on and off.

- Even if it's on the

edge, like the very edge,

it still needs just a

little bit of a push.

- No, it doesn't.

- And you know who gave it that push?

- Casper the Friendly Ghost?

- Perhaps.

- Look, I am happy to
let you believe in this,

'cause I think it's fun

that you believe in it,

'cause if we go to more places,

it's gonna be fun

to watch you freak out

some more, so great.

- We're never gonna agree,

are demons and ghosts real,

can they influence people?

Let's just call it

unsolved, how about that?

- No, but we sure had fun.

- Alright, let's get outta here.

Finish my beer actually.

- Yeah, finish your beer.

- Takin' this with me, too.

(eerie music)

- He looks like, really happy.

Look at that little face, he
looks like he's eatin' grapes.

- [Ryan] The fuckin' creaks

in this house are drivin' me insane.

What's in here, whoa what is?

- [Shane] That's a mirror.

Whoa, there's a guy in there

that looks just like me!

(both laughing)

- I turned the light back on,

and there was something

standing right there.

- Isn't it crazy how the light over there

was just like pooling?

- Yeah, there was a pool

of light over there.

That's really interesting,

let's get the fuck out of here.

This is insane, this is one

of the craziest experiences of my life.

- Can you imagine what it's gonna be like

comin' back at night?

- I don't wanna imagine that,

can't you just let me

enjoy the moment for once?

- No.

Father Thomas would be so proud of us.

- [Ryan] I don't think

he would to be honest.

- [Shane] Why?

- [Ryan] Because you directly

disobeyed everything he said.

You laid on the floor on the pentagram

with your belly bared
for the demon to smack.

- [Shane] Yeah, and he didn't.

What a trip it's been,

we've seen a lot of stuff.

Seen spiders, we've seen-

- Ghouls.
- Ghouls.

(eerie music)

- So we're about to discuss a case

of demonic possession so chilling

and controversial that it actually became

the movie "The Exorcism of Emily Rose."

What follows is the true

story that inspired that,

The exorcism of Anneliese Michel.

- Ooh.

- It's one of the few actual

cases of demonic possession

that went to court.

- Alright, wait did

they like sue the demon?

- You'll find out.

- Okay.

- [Ryan] Born in 1952 in the small town

of Klingenberg, in Bavaria Germany,

Anneliese Michel was

raised as a strict Catholic

and was described as

very bright and likable.

In September 1968, when

Anneliese was 16 years old,

she experienced her first

episode of losing consciousness.

And later that night,

she felt as if something
was pressing down on her
chest, pinning her to her bed.

11 months later, in August,

1969, a similar event occurred

and her mother took Anneliese

to their family doctor,

Dr. Vogt and a neurologist, Dr. Luthy

who examined her and even

ran an EEG, a brain scan,

but found nothing wrong.

They hypothesized that

it could possibly be

a form of seizure.

Over the next three years,

Anneliese would have two

more similar episodes

and was prescribed two medications,

an anti convulsant medication

and an anti-seizure
medication called Dilantin.

On both occasions, an EEG

would come back normal

with some minor irregular patterns,

but nothing that would

definitively explain her symptoms.

- [Shane] What year was this?

- [Ryan] This was in 1969.

- [Shane] Okay I'm fine with that so far,

that sounds real.

- Okay.

- Spiders on me, sorry

if I blew it on you.

- Well, you did.

It was in spring 1973

that things took a turn for the stranger.

Anneliese began to hear

knocking sounds in her bedroom.

Sounds her sisters would hear as well.

But even more alarming,

Anneliese also reported hearing

a voice damning her to hell.

Her mother was further rattled

when she witnessed

Anneliese furiously staring

at a statue of the
Virgin Mary with, quote,

"Eyes turned black, jet black.

"And her hands seemed to turn

into thick paws with claws."

- [Shane] What? Those are some

chunky paws on her daughter.

(Ryan laughing)
Uh oh!

- [Ryan] You know what, let's move on,

let's not get caught up on the bear hands.

You know what I shouldn't

have even said that part.

- [Shane] Yeah we can't

move past her having paws.

- [Ryan] I know, I knew you

weren't going to like that,

I'm just gonna move past.

- [Shane] She had like kitty cat paws.

- [Ryan] In September 1973,

in a neurological visit with Dr. Luthy,

Anneliese described horrific

visions of demon faces

that were tormenting her,

and stated that she felt that

the devil was inside her.
She also reported smelling something

that had the aroma of burnt feces,

a stench that many around

her would report smelling

at later times.

- [Shane] Why do all these people know

what burnt feces smells like?

- [Ryan] Well I can imagine

it just smells like feces

with a little smokier.

- [Shane] Like shit on fire.

Fuck, fuck is that a bee?

- See what you get?

This is what you get.

Yes, say, oh fuck! (laughing)

Around this time,

Anneliese's mother described

these strange occurrences to Dr. Luthy,

who according to Mrs. Michel,

advised them to consult a Jesuit,

a claim that Dr. Luthy would later deny.

- [Shane] Yeah that's a bad doctor.

- [Ryan] Yeah, if he said that.

- [Shane] Don't go see a Jesuit.

- [Ryan] That is fucked up, right.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] Whether or not that's true,

the family definitely

searched for a priest,

and eventually found a

priest named Father Alt.

In November 1973, Anneliese met

with a Freudian psychiatrist

who diagnosed her as a neurotic

with possible epilepsy.

And another neurologist

found she had quote,

"epileptic patterns" and

took her off Dilantin

and put her on Tegretol,

a much stronger drug.

In July 1975, Anneliese's

extremely odd behavior worsened.

She barely slept and

prayed fervently all night.

She ate spiders and flies

and even licked her own

urine up from the floor.

She destroyed rosaries, crucifixes,

and holy pictures on the walls.

Anneliese also exhibited

strength that was quote,

"Close to superhuman,"
throwing her sister, quote,

"As if she were a ragdoll."

And incredibly was observed

effortlessly squeezing

an apple with one hand until, quote,

"Fragments exploded throughout the room."

- [Shane] I bet I could squeeze an apple

until it exploded.

- [Ryan] I bet you a million

dollars you couldn't.

- Here we go.

I mean, this is Germany,

this is before preservatives.

- You hear that in the distance?

It's the excuse train coming.

(both laughing)

- Wait for it.

You're full of shit, Ryan Bergara.

- [Ryan] Now you get to see two hands.

- She definitely used two hands.

- [Ryan] It said one hand.

(Shane groaning)

- Okay. Who cares.

But still, that's not

like an amazing metric.

- [Ryan] A priest named Father Rodewyk,

a man considered an expert

on exorcisms by his peers

reported that he was convinced

that Anneliese was possessed

and after deliberation with the bishop,

an exorcism on Anneliese
was formally approved.

It was to be carried out by

a priest named Father Renz.

On September 24, 1975,

the first exorcism rite was performed.

Father Renz allowed some

of the exorcism sessions

to be recorded and 42 audio recordings

of the exorcisms were made in total.

I'm gonna play some clips

from those recordings.

But fair warning, these

recordings are perhaps

the most disturbing pieces

of audio I've ever heard.

(Renz speaking in foreign language)

(Anneliese growling)
(Anneliese speaking in foreign language)

- [Shane] You know, she's screaming.

She's giving it 110%.

- [Ryan] I mean, do you think that sounds

like it came out of a girl, like?

- [Shane] Yes, it sounds like a girl

doing a funny voice.

(Ryan sighs)
Uh?

- [Ryan] Your unrelenting

skepticism is exhausting.

(Shane laughing)

It drains me of all happiness and energy

and I hope you know that.

(Renz speaking in foreign language)

(Anneliese speaking in foreign language)

(Renz speaking in foreign language)

(Anneliese speaking in foreign language)

(woman speaking in foreign language)

(Renz speaking in foreign language)

- [Shane] That's all, we're all here!

It's all, I ran out of evil

people to think of, uh.

The blonde man from "Die

Hard" is also in here.

Skeletor from "Masters of the Universe."

Heath Ledger's Joker!

(Ryan laughing)

Not Jack Nicholson, he was too cartoonish!

- [Ryan] You had your fun, you ass?

- [Shane] Yeah, I've had my fun.

- [Ryan] Okay.

Anneliese also named Fleishmann

as one of her demons.

And provided accurate details

of the real Fleishmann

who was a priest in the

1500s that was kicked

out of the church for bad behavior.

These details came as an

icy shock to Father Alt

who claims Anneliese would have no way

of knowing Fleishmann.

- [Shane] That is the only

thing that is strange to me.

All of the other stuff is just things

that a person could do.

- [Ryan] To learn more

about demonic possession,

we sat down with Father Gary Thomas,

a Vatican-approved exorcist

who explained to us different

signs of possession,

all of these, Anneliese had.

- One would be an aversion to the sacred,

so a person walks in this church

and can't look at a crucifix,

and their eyes are, you only

see the whites of their eyes.

Another would be knowledge

of hidden things,

where the demon will begin to

tell you things about yourself

that the person themself

would have no way of knowing.

Another would be possessing a kind

of inordinate physical strength
they don't normally possess.

Then the last sign is a sort

of epileptic-like seizures

on a person's face and the

movement of their arms and legs

in a way where they lose complete control.

- [Ryan] By May, Anneliese

became even worse.

Banging her head against

the wall and biting herself

and others to the point where

her family had to tie her up

to prevent her from hurting herself.

But most dangerously,

Anneliese refused to eat,

she described it as, quote,

"Not being permitted to eat."

Despite being quite frail,

likely weighing under 80 pounds,

she exhibited great strength

when people tried to restrain her.

- [Shane] Yeah, I Just feel

bad for her at this point.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I do feel bad for her.

- [Shane] She's definitely tortured.

- [Ryan] By June, Anneliese's

entire face was sunk in,

she also refused a doctor visit

even though she had a very high fever.

On June 30, Anneliese

had another exorcism,

only saying, "Please, absolution."

The next morning, her

family went to her room

and found her dead.

Despite seeking medical
attention early on,

Anneliese refused to submit to

medical attention in the end,

as she and her family

ultimately placed all faith

of recovery into the exorcisms.

She died of starvation at the

age of 23 after 67 exorcisms.

Weighing only 68 pounds

at the time of her death.

- [Shane] Do you think

that just made her, like,

buy into it more?

If people started
exorcizing me on the reg.

- [Ryan] Exorcizing you on the reg?

- [Shane] Yeah, I might

eventually be like,

I guess I'm demons!

- [Ryan] I would agree

with that frame of mind,

but Anneliese's belief

that she was possessed

predates all the exorcisms or the priests

or any of that stuff.

After her death, Anneliese's

parents and the two priests

were accused of negligent homicide.

And the case wen to trial in 1978.

What follows are the

two sides of that case.

First, let's review the

position of the defense.

The defense presented eyewitness testimony

and formally submitted the recordings

as evidence of possession,

an idea that the court never

seemed to take seriously.

From a non-religious standpoint,

the defense argued Anneliese was permitted

to deny medical treatment,

as was her lawful right.

For what it's worth,

medical treatment might have

included tranquilizing
her, force-feeding her,

and electroshock therapy, quote,

"All presumably against

her will," end quote.

Family friend Thea Hein

recalled in her testimony

that in 1976, a few months

before Anneliese's death,

Anneliese reportedly quote,

"Begged on her knees"

for Hein to not suggest

medical attention to anybody.

Also worth noting is

the fact that Father Alt

actually looked for medical

help towards the end.

And on May 30, his friend Dr. Richard Roth

visited Anneliese out

of what he claims was

scientific curiosity,
and not as a physician.

- [Shane] He technically was just like,

"Look, I'm not here as a doctor,

"I just wanna see some

of this crazy shit."

- [Ryan] I know, who fucking says that?

- [Shane] "I want to see

this girl eat some spiders!"

- [Ryan] That's like something you say

when you go to the zoo,

not when you go see

someone that's tied up.

- [Shane] Yeah, that is

a bad man right there.

- [Ryan] Okay, in his visit,

Dr. Roth claims Anneliese

had no external injuries,

although Father Renz noticed

she had several bruises,

a swollen cheek, and black eyes.

An interesting contradiction,
to say the least.

Dr. Roth also denied saying quote,

"There are no injections

against the devil," end quote.

- Shady.

- Shady as fuck, yeah.

Curiously, in spite of all the

supposed epileptic attacks,

an autopsy revealed
Anneliese had a healthy brain

with no damage that could have

caused epileptic seizures.

Quote, "Not even on a

microscopic level," end quote.

What say you to that?

- [Shane] I mean, you

know, oh look I'm not a,

what's a brain scientist?

What do you call those?

- [Ryan] A neurologist?

- [Shane] Yeah, there we go,

sorry it's been a long day.
I'm not a neurologist,
I don't know what the-

- [Ryan] It's funny that you said that

because the neurologist

said the exact same thing.

- [Shane] He said "I'm not a neurologist?"

- [Ryan] Probably, it sounds like it.

He might has well have.

Yeah fuck, I don't

know, go visit a Jesuit.

- Yeah.
- Jesus Christ.

- [Shane] Just get your

shit stink out of my office.

- [Ryan] And even more curious

was the court's seeming

nonconsideration of facts

such as her pupils

being unusually dilated,

and the absence of ulcers on her body,

which are frequently found

on victims of starvation.

- [Shane] Okay, alright.

- [Ryan] Any quotes on that?

- [Shane] I mean, you know.

- [Ryan] This is great,

the tables have turned

in my opinion.

Now let's review the

position of the prosecution.

The prosecution argued

that Anneliese had epilepsy

and psychosis and that the

parents and two priests

were liable for failing

to act to save her life.
The defense tore down
notions of possession,

they questioned the

credibility of Father Alt,

with the conclusion from

two experts that Father Alt

exhibited signs of schizophrenia.

- [Shane] Whoa, whoa, whoa!

- [Ryan] Yeah, that's weird.

- [Shane] That's weird.

- [Ryan] He wasn't the guy

that was doing the exorcisms,

but he was the guy that

initially helped Anneliese

in the beginning.

The prosecution also argued

that the medications given

successfully suppressed
the epilepsy-like seizures.

And argued that that

suppression morphed into, quote,

"A delusional psychosis associated

"with epilepsy," end quote.

They argued that Anneliese's

psychosis was exacerbated

by the exorcisms which only

played into her fantasy.

To piggyback on that, Anneliese

often went through phases

between exorcisms where

she behaved normally.

Even though she would behave

as a possessed person during exorcisms,

it's unclear if the epilepsy-like

seizures were stopped

by medication or if they
actually stopped on their own.

But Anneliese's psychotic visions

predate the alleged medical suppression.

- [Shane] Weird, sorry, sorry.

- [Ryan] Weird, basically they're saying

that the psychosis was brought on

by the suppression of the drugs,

but the psychosis predates the drugs.

- [Shane] But it happens, predated, yeah.

- [Ryan] Exactly.

In the end, the court ruled

in favor of the prosecution.

Sentencing the four defendants

to six months in prison,

with suspension for three years,

and payment for all court costs.

The court ruled that Anneliese was unable

to make decisions for herself

and should have been forced

to submit to medical care.

Professor Felicitas D.
Goodman, an author of a book

on the case notes the theories

that Anneliese was epileptic

were presented as, quote, "A

statement of indisputable fact,

"not conjecture, as in fact,

they had been," end quote.

How do you tell the difference

between possession and mental health?

- Sometimes both are

going along side by side.

You have to determine

what is the root cause
of the suffering of this individual.

You start out with a discernment.

And the discernment involves myself

and a whole team of people.

I have a medical doctor,

a clinical psychologist

and a psychiatrist, in
fact a formal exorcism

only happens as the last resort.

- Given the evidence that we've seen,

in all the strange

occurrences, and the voices,

I think there's sufficient evidence

to not conclusively rule out

that she was possessed,

beyond a reasonable doubt.

- Sure.

- So you acknowledge?

- I acknowledge there's a
lot of factors in this case.

I personally think
there's something going on

with mental health, and I

also think that 67 exorcisms

probably don't leave

your mind in a good spot.

- I could see both sides.

I can see how it would be mental health,

I can see how it would be possession,

I lean towards possession.

That being said, she should

have gone to the hospital.

- Yeah, get that girl to a hospital.

- She's possessed or
not, fucking force her
to go to a hospital and
let the doctors be like

"Holy shit, the shit's floating around."

- PSA, if your kid's eating spiders.

- Don't take them to an exorcist.

Or take them to an exorcist

but do it at the hospital.

- No, don't take them to,

take them straight to the hospital.

- You can do both, that's what

I'm saying, you can do both.

You can have it happen at the hospital.

- Okay fine, yeah.

- [Ryan] Regardless of the court ruling,

many have debated what actually

led to Anneliese's death.

Was it a case of mental

illness, possibly epilepsy,

or was this a legitimate

case of demonic possession?

Whatever the real reason may be,

the case of Anneliese Michel is a tragedy

and will always remain unsolved.

(eerie music)

- I think we're done here.

- No we're not, I'm going to crush this.

- You're gonna crush it.

- I'm gonna get

some juice out of this thing.

- I don't know what's making me happier,

the fact that you can't get it,

or the struggle in your face

as you see your case slipping

through your fingers.
- This is not my case
slipping through my fingers.

- Like grains of sand, just falling.

This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved"

we cover the puzzling

case of Gloria Ramirez,

or as she's more known on the

internet, the toxic woman.

Her death is, yeah.

- Don't cite the internet.

- Her case is so bizarre

that it actually served

as the inspiration for

an episode of the X-Files

and many other TV shows.

Right now we're on our way

to Riverside, California

to visit the cemetery

where she was buried.

So without further ado let's get into it.

- Let's get into it.

- [Ryan] Gloria Ramirez

was a 31-year-old woman

diagnosed with cervical cancer.

On February 19, 1994,

around 8:15 p.m., Gloria Ramirez arrived

at the Riverside General

Hospital emergency room

where it was found that Ramirez's heart

was beating at a rate

too fast for her body.

The medical staff attempted to

defibrillate but soon noticed

that Ramirez's body was

covered in an oily sheen
and that her mouth was emanating

a strange, fruity, garlicky smell.

- [Shane] What the fuck?

- [Ryan] I mean, could you

even detect fruity garlic

if it came down to it?

- [Shane] I bet they talked

about it for 10 minutes

and were like, "What is that?"

And then one of them was

like, "Fruity garlic!"

And everyone was like, "Oh, yeah."

- [Shane] Either that, or they were like,

"Jesus, Ken, God, we have a patient here."

- [Ryan] A nurse named Susan

Kane began to draw blood

from Ramirez, and upon doing so,

Kane noticed the blood

had a chemical odor.

Even stranger, medical

resident Julie Gorchynski

noticed the blood-filled

syringe also contained

strange, manila-colored
particles floating in the blood,

an observation also noted

by attending physician Dr. Humberto Ochoa.

Shortly after, Nurse

Kane abruptly fainted.

Kane stated that her face was burning

and was escorted out on a gurney.

This sparked a bizarre domino effect.

Medical resident Julie

Gorchynski complained

of lightheadedness and also fainted.

She shook and experienced
apnea, a condition

where a person stops breathing

for a few seconds at a time.

- [Shane] I'm, if I
were to, what is, what?

- [Ryan] (laughing) I know, right?

Directly after that,

respiratory therapist
Maureen Welch also collapsed.

Here's a quote from Welch.

Quote, "I remember hearing someone scream.

"Then I woke up.

"I couldn't control the movement

of my limbs," end quote.

- [Shane] This woman

is like a, she's, it's,

like she sounds like

the Manhattan Project.

- [Ryan] In case you're keeping score,

that's three people that fainted.

Other staff members reported feeling sick,

and the hospital declared

an internal emergency.

All other patients were

evacuated to the parking lot

and a small crew continued to

work to save Gloria's life.

- [Shane] Seems odd to

evacuate all other patients.

- [Ryan] Why?

- [Shane] Maybe just

send the stink bomb out

to the parking lot.

- [Ryan] That is true, why

didn't they just take her out?
- [Shane] It had to be
a huge amount of work

to move everybody else out.

"What if we take all

of the patients outside

"and put them in the parking lot?"

"Yup, good idea!"

- [Ryan] And then the one guy in the back,

"You know, we could just-"

- [Shane] "Shut up! You idiot!

"We've already decided!"

- [Ryan] However, at 8:50 p.m.,

Ramirez was pronounced dead.

The body was moved into

an isolation anteroom

by two other staff members.

Sallie Balderas, a nurse

who helped moved the body,

began to vomit and reported

feeling a burning sensation

like Nurse Susan Kane.

Balderas was hospitalized for 10 days

and experienced apnea like Gorchynski.

Gorchynski, however, was

in the worst shape of all,

staying in intensive care,

experiencing a malady of issues,

including avascular necrosis,

a condition where bone tissue

does not receive enough blood

and begins to die.

- [Shane] What?

- [Ryan] She used crutches for

months after hospitalization.
All staff members that had
been affected by Ramirez's body

were treated in the parking lot,

and their clothes were

removed and put in bags

out of fear of a toxic chemical.

In the end, Ramirez's body affected 23

of the 37 emergency room staff,

and five staff members were

held in the hospital overnight.

- [Shane] You don't think,

though, like, maybe one of them

was like, "Ah, I feel

sick, I gotta go home,"

and the other ones were

like, "Uh, yeah, me too,

"a burning pain, I gotta

go home, I gotta go be,

"I gotta go."

- [Ryan] So you think this was

all an elaborate hooky scheme?

- [Shane] "I gotta go be in

emergency care for 10 days."

- [Ryan] Jesus Christ.

Around 11 p.m., about two

hours after the incident,

a hazardous materials team

arrived in full hazmat suits.

They searched the hospital

for two toxic chemicals

that could possibly be responsible.

However, no chemical was found.

Six days later, an autopsy was performed

by the Riverside Coroner's

Office, in airtight suits

in a newly configured,
airtight examining room.

They took samples of blood, tissue,

and even air from the body bag.

Nothing conclusive came from the autopsy.

- [Shane] These hazmat guys will get it,

they've got an airtight room.

And then they're just like, "Eh."

- [Ryan] "Yeah, I don't know,

man, just fucking weird."

- [Shane] "Fucking weird."

- [Ryan] County officials

called her death, quote,

"The most baffling in

local history," end quote.

And the mystery became a media frenzy.

By the end, medical detectives

from 10 different local, state,

and federal forensic departments

investigated the case.

On April 20, 1994,

Gloria was finally buried

in Riverside, California, a
full two months after her death.

So here we are, this is

where she was buried.

You know, cemeteries

are always very spooky.

Are you sniffing, what is wrong with you?

- [Shane] I want to see if

it smells like fruity garlic.

- [Ryan] (laughs) Jesus Christ.

All right, we're gonna get back in the car

if you're going to keep doing that.

- [Shane] All right, well-

- [Ryan] We'll pay our respects.

- [Shane] Sorry, Gloria.

- [Ryan] Sorry, Gloria.

- [Shane] Weird way to die.

- [Ryan] The official cause of death

was cardiac dysrhythmia,

caused by kidney failure

due to her cervical cancer, and with that,

the case was officially closed.

However, the cause of

the puzzling illnesses

at the emergency room remained a mystery.

- [Shane] Yeah, I was gonna

say, if I was in that office

and the guy was like, "Well, case closed,"

I feel like everybody else

in the office was like,

- [Ryan] "Uh, are you

forgetting something?"

- [Shane] "You really

wanna close that case?"

- [Ryan] With that being said,

let's hop in to some of the theories

as to what occurred that night.

The first theory comes from

the California Department

of Health and Human Services.

- [Shane] Reputable, I think.

- [Ryan] Well, I think

this theory is bullshit,

but anyways-
- It would be to you.

The most reputable,

logical, fact-based source.

- [Ryan] Total horseshit!

- [Shane] Horseshit.

- [Ryan] Who interviewed 34

emergency room staff members

on duty that night.

They concluded that the

emergency room staff experienced

a mass sociogenic
illness, or mass hysteria,

which is defined as an illness

with no identifiable environmental cause,

despite a group of
people agreeing on a set

of experienced symptoms.

- [Shane] Yeah, it could, yeah.

- [Ryan] You think they all just, uh,

imagined it at the same time?

- [Shane] I mean, that's happened before.

- [Ryan] 23 people.

- [Shane] There's a bunch

of those people in France

who just started dancing till they died.

- [Ryan] What?

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] You just made that up right now.

- [Shane] That's a real thing, pal.

- [Ryan] Coming soon on "Unsolved."

(both laughing)

They pointed to the absence

of poison in Gloria's system,

and the fact that nobody

in the ambulance on the way

to the hospital had

experienced any symptoms.
Most mass sociogenic illnesses
have an environmental trigger

that sets off the

experiencing of symptoms.

The California Department

of Health identified

the strange odor as this trigger.

- [Shane] Eh, you know, the

mind is a powerful thing.

- No!
- Yeah.

- No.
- Yeah.

- [Ryan] Keep in mind, 23

of the people were affected,

and not all of them were in that room.

- [Shane] Word travels fast in a hospital.

- [Ryan] They're all texting each other?

"Yo, come check out the

fruity, garlicky smell

in Room Five!"

- [Shane] You don't think?

They were probably shouting

down the hallways at each other.

- [Ryan] However, Julie Gorchynski,

the medical resident most

affected by the incident,

filed a lawsuit for $6 million

against the Coroner's Office

and the hospital, and

disapproved of this explanation.

Maureen Welch, the respiratory therapist,

also felt she was not a

victim of mass hysteria.

- [Shane] The whole idea of hysteria is

that you don't realize it.

You're not like, "Yeah,
we all participated

"in a mass hysteria, it was a real riot.

"I was, Gorchynski was,

man, she got fucked up."

"She was having a great time.

"What a fun hysteria that was."

- [Ryan] You know, it's

not like a flash mob?

- [Shane] No, (laughs)

it's not a flash mob.

- [Ryan] Okay.

The second theory is from

the Livermore Laboratory,

who had discovered

abnormally large amounts

of a compound called dimethyl sulfone

in Gloria's autopsy samples.

To explain this, they

theorized that Gloria used

an anti-inflammatory
gel called DMSO to cope

with her cancer pains.

The gel would account for the

garlicky smell and oily sheen.

And interestingly enough,

DMSO is one oxygen atom away

from the compound dimethyl sulfone,

the mysterious compound found in excess

in Gloria's autopsy samples.

The Livermore Lab performed a test,

combining DMSO with oxygen,

much like the oxygen mask administered

to Gloria that night.

And the result was an

oversaturation of dimethyl sulfone

to the point where white

crystals were formed.

Crystals that looked similar

to the manila-colored particles

seen in Gloria's blood by

the medical staff that night.

And with that,

they proved how the dimethyl

sulfone could have appeared.

But the reality is that dimethyl

sulfone is still harmless.

However, the team theorized

that if the dimethyl sulfone broke down,

perhaps due to the electric

shocks of the defibrillator,

as people on the internet have suggested,

and then combined with

natural sulfate compounds

inside Gloria, it could

form dimethyl sulfate,

which is a strong chemical

that can cause damage

to the heart, liver, and kidneys.

It also can cause paralysis,

delirium, and convulsions,

to name a few, symptoms

that are uncannily similar

to those experienced by the

medical staff that night.

- [Shane] Well, there you go.

- [Ryan] So essentially,
there was an excess

of this one compound.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] And they figured

that if this compound could break down-

- [Shane] Uh huh.

- [Ryan] And combine with sulfate,

which sometimes occurs in bodies-

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] It would cause

this really, really poisonous compound.

- [Shane] And you don't

believe this because?

- [Ryan] You'll see.

However, their theory that

dimethyl sulfate was formed

inside Gloria has been highly scrutinized

by other scientists as impossible,

and it's also worth noting

that the Livermore Lab

did not run any tests

to try to prove this theory,

or create a successful simulation.

In fact, the head of

the lab himself admits

it is merely a theory.

Quote, "We've never said

this is what happened,

"just that people should

look into it," end quote.

He backpedaled really quick!

- [Shane] He really did.

- [Ryan] Nonetheless, the

coroner's office ran away

with this theory and released a statement

in November 1994 stating it

as the most likely cause.

The third theory is

from the Ramirez family,

who believed that the

emergency room incident

and Gloria's death were due

to the hazardous conditions

already present at
Riverside General Hospital.

In fact, in 1991, three

years before Gloria's death,

two hospital employees were forced

to receive medical
treatment after a sterilizer

may have leaked poisonous gas.

- [Shane] Oh, what?

- [Ryan] Three years before.

- [Shane] Not great.

- [Ryan] No, that's not ideal.

- [Shane] Not a great track record.

- [Ryan] In 1993, sewer gas was found

in the emergency room in an inspection.

Here's a quote from

Gloria's sister Maggie.

Quote, "I honestly believe

my sister may have lived

"if she hadn't gone into that

emergency room that night.

"I don't know what the

county is afraid of,

"but we want answers," end quote.

There are three strange

occurrences to support this theory

and may suggest a possible

coverup from the county.

- [Shane] Mm, this goes

all the way to the top.

(Ryan laughs)
I don't know if we should
be looking into this, Ryan.

- [Ryan] Yeah, they're

gonna come after us.

- [Shane] Some stones

are best left unturned.

- [Ryan] They're gonna come after us

with some oily sheen for us?

- [Shane] Oh, they're gonna,

yeah, you're gonna wake

up tomorrow morning

and have an oily sheen on your chest.

- [Ryan] That's their calling card?

- [Shane] I can't wait

till this story is over

so I never have to say

the word sheen ever again.

- [Ryan] What is with you and sheen?

- [Shane] I don't like it!

It's too close to my name!

- [Ryan] You don't want the

nickname Garlicky Sheen Shane?

- [Shane] No, (laughs) no, I don't.

- [Ryan] The first is that

after the initial autopsy,

Riverside County Deputy

Coroner Dan Cupido said

that Gloria had not died

from natural causes.

But after the county revealed

their official autopsy

conclusion, Cupido flip-flopped,

claiming Ramirez had, in fact,

died from natural causes.

- [Shane] Cupido!
- [Ryan] Cupido.

- [Shane] Yeah, I knew it was you, Cupido.

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] The second strange occurrence is

that the initial investigator

from the coroner's office,

Stephanie Albright, a woman

considered a top investigator,

had committed suicide one

month into the investigation.

Deputy Coroner Dan Cupido

said that, due to the case,

Albright, quote, "May have been

under pressure," end quote.

The third and perhaps

most peculiar occurrence

was the fact that the syringe

used to take Ramirez's blood

was accidentally tossed out,

an oversight that is especially curious

when you consider the fact

that the hospital even took the time

to put staff members' clothes in bags

in the parking lot that night.

- [Shane] Meanwhile,
they're playing hot potato

with a poison syringe.

- [Ryan] With a poison syringe.

Well, this is like one

of the weirdest scientific

occurrences of all time.

Yeah, bag that up, throw it in the trash.

- [Shane] Yeah, chuck it.

- Kobe threw it in.

However, Tom Desantis, the
Riverside County spokesperson,

claimed the vents in the

emergency room were checked

by independent inspectors
after Gloria's death,

and nothing unusual or harmful was found.

Yet, the Ramirez family maintains

that something is being covered

up, and filed a malpractice

and wrongful death lawsuit

against Riverside County.

- [Shane] Each one of these

theories that you're positing,

they make more and more sense.

The first one, I was like,

"Yeah, that could be it."

Then the second one I was

like, "Oh yeah, great."

- [Ryan] Yeah, exactly.

- [Shane] And then this third one is like,

"Oh, there's sewage and

poisonous gas in the hospital?

"Yeah!"

- [Ryan] The fourth theory

is from the internet,

where many believe the

emergency room incident

is a strong case for Gloria Ramirez being

a victim of alien abduction.

- [Shane] Okay!

(Ryan laughs)

You just shut your mouth, I'm done.

- [Ryan] What's the

difference between this theory

and the other three?

- [Shane] Cause the other
three are based on facts

and some pretty plausible, like, that's.

I mean, shut up, you're,

I can't even, this is.

I thought you were like,

on the level on this one.

The first three theories

were so grounded in reality.

And now you're just like,

"Oh yeah, Bigfoot splooged on her chest!"

- [Ryan] UFO enthusiasts

cite her unusual reaction

with the emergency room staff as evidence

of extraterrestrial meddling.

- Uh huh.

- Look, I'm not saying

this is what happened.

I'm just saying, it's a possibility.

Can you say, definitively,

this is not a possibility,

that she wasn't abducted?

- I definitively cannot.

- It's a theory then.

- Well, get into the theory.

- That is it, that's it.

- That's it?

- (laughs) That's it!

- Fuck you!

That definitively did not happen.

Because the theory, then, is just, uh-

- Maybe it was aliens.

- Maybe aliens though.

- [Ryan] After all these years,

the mystery behind the strange occurrence

at Riverside General Hospital

endures the test of time.

Was it a case of mass hysteria?

Was this an improbable

chemical reaction gone wrong?

Perhaps this was a coverup

of poor hospital conditions.

Or, is this proof of

something beyond science,

possibly extraterrestrials?

Regardless, no theory has

been definitively proven,

and the case of Gloria

Ramirez remains unsolved.

(eerie music)

- You know what happened,

is the aliens probably abducted her.

- I can't wait to see where this is going.

- The aliens probably abducted her.

The aliens were like, "All

right, let's do our stuff!

"Let's do all our little tricks on her.

"Let's put a little

probe up her butt hole,"

or whatever they do.

And then they probably

started throwing up,

and they were like, "Holy shit!"

And one of them was probably like,

"We should evacuate the whole ship,"

and someone else was like, "Fuck that.

"Drop her off at a hospital."

(Ryan screaming)

- Oh my god.

This week on "Buzzfeed Unsolved,"

we explore the Whaley House

in San Diego, California

as part of our ongoing

investigation, are ghosts real?

And what better place

than the Whaley House,

which was ranked

by Travel Channel's
"America's Most Haunted"

as the most haunted house in America.

- Number one?

- Number one.

- Top of the pops?

- We're going to the top dog.

Let's just get this over with

and let's get into the history.

- Okay.

- [Ryan] Thomas Whaley was born

in New York City on October 5, 1823.

In September 1855, Thomas bought land

in Old Town San Diego, California.

In 1857, Thomas constructed

a two-story brick home

for him and his wife, Anna,

using bricks from his personal brickyard.

And the result was the

infamous Whaley House

that we are investigating today.

This is it, the famous Whaley House.

- [Shane] Beautiful
house, beautiful house.

- It also, in the bustling area

of Old Town San Diego,

look at this street.

Even if we get possessed tonight,

we could have a nice brewski after.

- Yeah. And we will.

- [Ryan] I'm just trying to

distract myself right now.

- [Shane] No, we have to go in.

- [Ryan] Okay.

You do the honors.

- Okay.

(ominous music)

After you.

- You go first.
- Okay.

- Oh, this is pleasant.

- [Ryan] You could feel the history coming

from the walls in here.

- [Shane] Yeah, isn't that wonderful?

- Not when the history fights back.

Since being built,

the Whaley House has

been used as many things,

including a courtroom,

and San Diego's first commercial theater,

both of which still

remain in the house today.

But its most famous use was as the home

of Thomas and Anna

Whaley and their children
who moved in and out of the house

throughout the late 1800s

and early to mid 1900s.

- [Shane] Peak ghost time. 90%

of ghosts are from that era.

- [Ryan] Yeah, that's true.

You never really hear

about a ghost from 2010

or so that's wearing like

a flannel and ripped jeans

or some shit like that.

It's always somebody wearing a bonnet.

Thomas and Anna Whaley had three children

within the first few years of

living at the Whaley House,

Francis Hinton, Thomas

Jr., and Anna Amelia.

Thomas Jr. Tragically died

at 18 months of scarlet fever

in the house, and that same year,

Thomas Sr.'s nearby general store

burned down in a case of arson.

This dude's son died, his baby died,

and then someone heard the news

and was like, "ah, that's tragic".

- [Shane] "Oh, he's grieving,

he's probably not paying

attention to that store of his."

- [Ryan] "Let's burn that down."

(Shane grunts)

Monsters living in this town.

Devastated, the family

moved to San Francisco

where they had three more kids,

George Hays Ringgold, Violet
Eloise, and Corinne Lillian.

However, an earthquake in 1868

forced the family to return to live

in the Whaley House in San Diego.

- [Shane] It seems like

they're followed by doom.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I mean,

they're really just getting

boned by fate right now.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] This is just

not a good time for them.

- [Shane] It's not pleasant.

- [Ryan] Unfortunately,
tragedy would continue

to fall on the family over the years,

as Violet Whaley would

kill herself in 1885.

She shot herself in the heart

in the backyard outhouse

due to grief over her failed marriage.

Thomas Whaley found her dying,

and brought her inside the house

into the back of the parlor

where she passed away 15 minutes later.

Over the next 68 years,

three members of the

Whaley family would die

inside the house.

Anna Whaley in 1913, Francis in 1914,

and then Lillian in 1953.

Now that we've established the history,

let's examine the ghostly inhabitants

that are believed to haunt these walls

and give this house the reputation

as the most haunted house in America.

- [Shane] Do you think because you believe

in all this stuff that

you have a higher chance

of being a ghost?

- [Ryan] Oh, yeah, I would think so.

I'd be a pleasant ghost,

I'd like pour people

tea and stuff like that.

- [Shane] What?

- [Ryan] Or I'd do
chores around the house.

They'd be like, Whoa!

All my laundry is folded!

How about that? Thanks Ryan!

And I'd tip my cap and I'd

tap dance out of the room.

- [Shane] You sound fun.

- [Ryan] Yeah, right?

Doesn't that sound great?

Wouldn't you like to be haunted by me?

The first ghosts we'll discuss

are Thomas Jr. and Violet Whaley.

Infant cries are often heard in the house,

an experience likely
attributed to the fact

that Thomas Jr. died from scarlet fever

inside the house at the age of 18 months.

On the second floor of the

house in the back room,

people have seen a young woman

and report feeling a
profound sorrow in this area.

This young woman is believed

to be Violet Whaley.

EVP session in what may be Violet's room.

- [Shane] This is the sorrowful room.

Do you feel sorrowful in here?

- No, not really.

I'd prefer actually, um, I'm fine with

not talking too much to

her, because she scares.

- [Shane] Violet we're going

to be very, very quiet right now.

- She scares me.

- And if you want to deliver us a message,

please whisper it faintly

into one of our ears.

- Oh, you son of a.

- Or something. Okay.

Or make Ryan's tummy grumble.

And here we go.

(suspenseful music)

(Shane yawns)

- Now you feel sleepy?

- Yeah. We're in a bedroom, that's fair.

- There are other spiritually

active areas of the house

with unidentified
sightings of apparitions.

In the early 1900s, the

house was rented out

to various tenants by Lillian,

so it's possible these

unidentified apparitions
could be the spirits of former tenants.

Some have seen a little

girl in the dining room.

Vaudeville music is sometimes

heard in the theater room.

If there is anybody in here,

perhaps you wanna do

a little dance for us?

And psychics that have visited the house

say the courtroom is especially active.

- What do you feel in here?

- I feel a little bit

like I'm being watched.

But I don't mind it.

A woman is sometimes seen here

in the back corner of the jury box.

Paranormal investigators also claim

this back corner is a spiritual vortex.

- Spirit, if you're here and you're angry,

Ryan would like to feel

a shiver up his spine.

They don't respond to specific requests.

- Hm, that is true.

You kinda just have to

wait for it to happen.

- Maybe it's a good portal.

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] Maybe. Maybe.

(flashlight clicking)

- My flashlight went out.

- Are you serious?

(flashlight clicking)
- Perhaps the battery?

- No.

I mean, possibly, but I don't know.

(suspenseful music)

Do you feel something?

- [Ryan] No, there's creaking

in this chair next to me,

maybe just because it's old wood.

- [Shane] Old wood

doesn't creak by itself.

- The wood's upset.

Oh, fuck, dude, I feel

very weird all of a sudden.

(suspenseful music)

- Why do you feel weird?

- I feel, like dizzy.

- You feel dizzy?

- Yeah, I'm not shitting you.

I know every time people

watch these ghost hunter shows

they're like this guy is full of shit

but holy balls, dude.

Wow.

I don't like this.

Oh wow.

- What was that?

Did you get a shiver up your spine?

- I did, holy shit. (laughing)

Oh, man that was crazy.

What the fuck is going on, dude?

- Can you still move all your limbs?

- Oh, I can still move all my limbs,

I just feel very uncomfortable.

- My goodness.

- I know you don't believe me,

I can see the look on your face right now.

(ominous music)

- I don't feel particularly strange.

It's not a great chair.

- [Ryan] Outside the house,

another police officer

also had a paranormal experience

more than 30 years ago.

There was a 911 call

from a concerned citizen

reporting a woman crying

outside the Whaley House,

and the officer who responded to that call

would witness something

that he would only reveal

in his confidential retirement

letter decades later.

When the officer came onto

the property, he saw quote,

"A woman at the back of the

house crying," end quote,

and mentioned she was in period clothing.

The officer asked, quote,

"Ma'am, are you alright?"

end quote, to which she

turned around and smiled.

And when the officer shone

his flashlight on her,

the woman vanished.

Bizarrely, the house also

sports the rare instance

of a ghost dog and a ghost cat,

both of which the Whaleys
owned at the time.

(Shane laughing)

- [Shane] Then are there also ghost ants?

Is there ghost trees?

- [Ryan] No, there's no

ghost trees, I'm sorry.

- [Shane] You're not telling me

someone's never walked through the forest

and seen a tree and been like "Huh?

"But wait a minute, that tree was there,

"I swear there was a

tree there a second ago."

(Ryan laughs)

- [Ryan] You know what,

I've changed my stance

on ghost tree, that's

actually pretty cool.

- [Shane] Ghost bacteria, etc.

- [Ryan] Stop it.

- [Shane] Okay.

- [Ryan] Two of the other

ghosts that haunt the house

are Thomas and Anna Whaley themselves.

Many report seeing Thomas

Whaley on the upper landing,

where one person claimed

he wore a frock coat and pantaloons.

Some have reported

that he blows tobacco

smoke in visitors' faces.

- [Shane] (laughs) Now that's just rude.

- [Ryan] I know, it's kinda

just a dick thing to do.
- Could you imagine seeing a ghost

"Oh my goodness, look at

this strange apparition!"

And he just comes up to

you and is like, (exhales).

(Ryan laughs)

You're like, oh, Jesus, man.

- [Ryan] Anna Whaley is

typically seen in the garden,

or in one of the downstairs rooms.

Anna has also been spotted

wearing a green gingham dress,

sipping tea in the parlor,

a place where Thomas

has been seen as well.

Interestingly, Anna also reportedly

had a run-in with the San Diego police.

One night, a Whaley House tour

guide named Victor Santana

was setting the alarm, and as

he was punching in the code,

he heard a woman say quote,

"Why are you here?" end quote,

which spooked him to the point that he ran

out the front door without

completing the code,

setting off the alarm.

Shortly after, a San Diego

police officer responded

to the Whaley House.

Santana recollects the officer

quote "Claimed there was

"a woman in a green dress

in the parlor" end quote.

But by the time backup arrived,

the woman in green had disappeared.

How do you arrest a ghost?

You can't. You handcuff them.

- [Shane] I guess you would

have to be a ghost cop.

- [Ryan] You know what, I

rescind what I said earlier.

I won't pour tea and fold

clothes, I'll be a ghost cop.

- Yeah, that's actually pretty badass.

- Ryan Bergara.
- Ghost Cop.

- Doesn't that sound nice?

- That's awesome.

- I like that.
- Yeah.

- [Ryan] However, the final,

and perhaps most feared ghost

of all is the ghost of Yankee Jim.

(both laughing)

- [Shane] You better watch out

or Yankee Jim will give you some taffy.

Some folks say they hear him playing

a jolly little kazoo tune

in the middle of the night.

(Ryan laughs)

That's not a ghost.

That's not a spooky name.

- Part of the reason this house is haunted

is due to what occurred on the land

before the house was constructed.

In 1852, James Yankee Jim Robinson

was sentenced to hang to his death

for attempting to steal a boat.

He was hanged on a gallows

off the back of a wagon

on the land where the

Whaley House stands today.

This is the grave of Yankee Jim.

They did straight up murder him

for, you know, stealing a boat.

He didn't even successfully steal the boat

and yet he was still hanged.

I mean, he did get a

nice little plaque here.

- [Shane] That is a bummer.

- You know, if I were him

I would haunt this place.

- Yeah, I would too.

- You know what Yankee Jim?

- Police bullshit.

- You know what, I hope you're

riding a speedboat in heaven.

- Oh, you know he's got a

great speedboat up in heaven.

- Yeah.

- You were ahead of your time, Yankee Jim.

Rest in peace.

- Interestingly enough,
Thomas Whaley was reportedly

in attendance of that hanging,

yet still purchased the

land a few years later,

a decision that would literally haunt him

for decades to come.

Thomas and his family would

reportedly hear heavy footsteps

in the house, an occurrence

that Thomas himself
would attribute to the
ghost of Yankee Jim.

Anna Whaley also believed

the house was haunted,

and furthermore, believed the

property itself was cursed,

and perhaps accounted for the tragedy

that continually befell the family.

(dramatic music)

But to finish this off, let's

spend some time in the parlor,

which is believed to be

one of the most active areas in the house.

This archway was the spot

where old Yankee Jim met his demise.

And this is where Violet

was taken when she was shot.

This is where Mrs. Whaley

was seen by the policeman.

- [Shane] I'm gonna try

to talk to them in here.

What if we just, one at a time?

So it's more private.

Just each of us try to, just

spend like five minutes alone.

- Let's do it before I change my mind.

Come on, let's just do it.

- I'll go first.
- All right.

- [Shane] Five minutes.

- [Ryan] You're an idiot.

- It's awfully quiet.

Yankee Jim, I hear you're a fan of boats.

Uh, you know, I myself would love a boat.

I'm gonna be quiet now, and
just embrace the darkness.

Here we go.

Please do feel free to, you know,

make it stink, or, change the temperature,

give me goosebumps.

Whatever you're feeling.

Maybe you'd like to appear to me now

and sing a little song.

About boats.

I tried to talk about

boats and it didn't work.

Um, I found it very just calming,

I gotta be honest.

When my five minutes was

up I was kinda bummed

because it was almost like meditation.

- [Ryan] Shane, I guess it's my turn.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

(eerie music)

Okay, okay, you're gonna be okay Ryan.

You're gonna be fine.

(sighs) Just breathe,

breathe, breathe, breathe.

If it's any consolation,

if there's anybody in here,

I am terrified, and if
you're scared of me,

just know that if you show

yourself in front of me,

I'm gonna urinate all over this carpet.

I do not wanna see anybody, oh god,

I don't wanna talk to anybody.

I'm not talking to anybody, I'm losing it.

- [Shane] Watch your language.

- I can't.

(Ryan screams)

Okay, is one of you messing with me?

- [Shane] What are you talking about?

- Oh my god.

Oh my god.

Dude, something whispered in my ear.

(voice whispering)

(Ryan screaming)

(voice whispering)

(Ryan screaming)

(voice whispering)

(Ryan screaming)

So I sat in here for five minutes,

you locked me in here by myself

which I already was

against from the beginning.

Something breathed in my right ear.

And it was so prominent,

I thought it was you messing with me.

I'm honestly in shock right now.

- Are you?
- Yeah.

After being dedicated as a historic house

on May 25th, 1960, the

Whaley House has received

over 100,000 visitors per year,

and a countless number of those people

report paranormal experiences.

For there to be so many instances

of reported paranormal
activity in the house,

I can certainly believe

that it is haunted,

especially when considering the history.

But nonetheless, whether or not

the house is definitively

haunted will remain unsolved.

(eerie music)

- But all the ghosts sound like

they're just having a laugh.

- You mean Thomas Whaley blowing tobacco.

- He's blowing smoke in people's face,

she's having tea in the garden,

the kids are running

around, probably laughing.

- Chasing the ghost cat.

- Chasing the ghost dog and ghost cat.

Ghost cat's probably chasing

around little ghost mice.

There's a lot going on in this house.

- It sounds like the Pirates

of the Caribbean carousel

where they're just chasing each other.

- Yeah.

(dramatic music)

- This is a nightmare room. Oh.

This is where we're sleeping tonight.

This week on "BuzzFeed Unsolved,"

we explore one of the most

haunted places in the world

as part of our ongoing investigation

to answer the question,
are ghosts real?

Right now we are sitting

in the Queen Salon

of undoubtedly the
creepiest boat in the world.

Allow me to introduce
you to the Queen Mary.

- A bit rude to call it the

creepiest boat in the world.

- I mean that's not

an unfair statement would you say, right?

- It's a marvel, it's a marvel.

(eerie music)

- [Ryan] Apparently this boat is

two times the size of the Titanic.

- Two times?
- Two times.

- The Titanic's tiny, that's not true.

- It's true.

All you need to know is I

was here about 10 years ago

and I said I'd never come

back and well, here I am.

- You're not a man of your word.

- [Ryan] You know I will say

this is a beautiful sunset though,

if there's one thing I

could take solace in today.

- Nice sunset, enjoy it, Ryan.

It's the last one you're ever gonna see.

(Ryan laughing)
(dramatic music)

- Well, I'm back.

That is that.
- [Shane] Do you feel
like it remembers you?

- I certainly hope not

after what I did last time I was here.

- What did you do?

- You'll find out.

- You mean that you think

there's something about Mary?

- Indeed, yeah that's exactly.

- She might be a little bit enchanted.

- Yeah, I would think so.

You know when things are so

pristine and beautiful like this

but vacant, there is something

very unsettling to it.

I don't know what it is.

- What do you find unsettling about this?

- Lots of things, that being said,

let's get into the history of this boat.

Named after Britain's actual Queen Mary,

the Queen Mary was completed in the 1930s

and embarked on its inaugural voyage

on May 27th, 1936 from

Southampton, England.

The boat served as the

new benchmark for luxury,

containing two cocktail

bars, two swimming pools,

five dining areas and lounges,

a grand ballroom and much more.

However all that luxury

would soon go to waste

during World War II when

the ship was repurposed
as a transportation vessel for
troops and prisoners of war

and was appropriately painted gray.

In fact, the ship was so much

faster than enemy U-Boats

that it earned the

nickname the Grey Ghost.

- [Shane] Did they paint it

gray specifically for the war?

- [Ryan] You don't think the Grey Ghost

is a pretty cool nickname?

- [Shane] It is a pretty badass name.

- [Ryan] I'm captain of the Grey Ghost,

tell that story in a bar.

- [Shane] Oh my ship, well

she's called the Grey Ghost.

- [Ryan] The ship was

estimated to have carried

over 800,000 servicemen

throughout the war.

In 1947, the ship return

to the Queen Mary status

and in 1965 it was sold

to the city of Long Beach

in California where it is
now docked permanently.

Now that we've established

the boat's history,

let's take a second

to revisit my own personal

history with this ship.

- Oh God.

- I've told Shane this story before

but about 10 years ago, when I

was, hm, was it 10 years ago?

- This is riveting.
- When I was 17 years old,

I visited this ship with a couple friends.

I was really interested in the paranormal

but didn't believe it was a real thing.

Never thought I'd be back in this room.

This was the, this was my ghost father.

After taunting the

ghosts to show themselves

and coming up empty again,

I returned disappointed

to my hotel room on the boat, Cabin B484.

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy.

It hasn't changed one bit,

it's exactly the same.

- [Shane] Which bed were you on?

- [Ryan] I was sleeping

right here on this one.

I was sleeping on the left

side towards the wall.

- You were hanging out, this

looks like a Best Western.

- That night when I slept,

I was repeatedly poked

in the face but I was too

scared to open my eyes

and when I finally did

to confront the person

I was sleeping next to, my friend Elvin,

I discovered to my horror

that he was actually

fast asleep and snoring.

I thought maybe-

- Ain't that like Elvin.

- Yeah, maybe nothing, I mean.

Maybe it was nothing, so I

tried to push through it.
I eventually did fall asleep.

The next morning went into the bathroom.

My friend Casey saw the sink turn on,

so we set up a camera
to try and catch that.

So when we set up the

camera we actually caught,

if you look in the footage

at the left corner,

there's a bag with

toothpaste on top of it.

- You'll never forget

that plastic Ziploc bag.

- Fuck you.

- I'm getting chills seeing

the actual toothbrush

that has been so-

- See lookit, you can see it.

- It already happened?
- Yeah, it already happened.

- [Shane] Not boding well

considering I didn't even catch it.

- [Ryan] You were focusing on

the wrong side of the screen.

- Yeah, there is definitely

a force at play there though.

- And what is that?

- Gravity.

- [Ryan] See it again.

Okay you gotta admit, that looks weird.

- No, it really doesn't.

- Let's rewind it again.

- It happens at the exact same time

that you throw your shit on the counter.

- There's always something.

Look at the bag, how it moves, it's like-

- [Shane] Yeah 'cause

there's toothpaste on it.

- [Ryan] There's like a jitter, watch.

- [Shane] Bags are stiff.

- That's a pretty firm movement.

It almost looks like someone

puppeteering it with a string.

- It's a haunted bag.

- [Ryan] You can't see that

it flung it a little bit?

- This toothpaste falls straight down.

- It was up, then down.

- Straight down.
- Up and down.

- Straight down.
- No, up and down.

Before that toothpaste hit the floor,

I didn't believe in ghosts,

I thought this was all BS.

But what I saw in that bathroom changed me

into the man that you see today,

a firm believer in ghosts

and the paranormal.

I've never doubted it again and

I swore I would never return

to this ship and yet here I

sit like a freakin' idiot, so.

- I've told you numerous times

that I would love to

see something like that.

If I just get one experience like that

with definitive proof,

maybe tonight's the

night, I'm feeling lucky.
- [Ryan] That being said,

let's explore some of the

paranormally active areas

of the ship in my return

to the Queen Mary.

There are quite a few documented deaths

that occurred on the Queen Mary

and numerous more reported

ones, so let's revisit a couple.

In 1936, Sir Edgar

Britten, the first Captain

of the Queen Mary died

of a stroke in his cabin.

In 1949, Senior Second

Officer William Stark

accidentally drank laundry

detergent stored in a gin bottle,

thereby poisoning himself to death.

- [Shane] Who's storing

that in a gin bottle though?

- [Ryan] Apparently
the captain at the time

had a gin bottle in his room and he said,

"You know, you've been

doing a good job today.

"Go to my room, pour yourself a drink."

He failed to mention there was acid

or I've also heard it was detergent.

- [Shane] Hmm, this doesn't taste like,

this is burning my tongue,

I better swallow it.

You imagine him just

a minute after the guy

left the room being like "Oh!"

- Oh, shit, I hope he didn't drink

the other bottle with the X's on it.

- Oh, darn it.

- By the way Shane, I

have a bottle of whiskey

in the room for you if

you want to go taste it.

- Oh, let me go get that.

- Yeah, go, go.

However, the most unfortunate deaths

all occurred at one time.

As I had mentioned before,

the Queen Mary served

as a transportation vessel
during World War II.

On October 2nd, 1942, the

Queen Mary was being escorted

from New York to Glasgow

by another much smaller

vessel called the HMS Curacoa.

The Curacoa was zig-zagging

in front of the Queen Mary

to confuse potential
U-Boats and German bombers.

However, the Queen Mary

traveling at 28.5 knots

unexpectedly caught up to the Curacoa

and consequently collided with the ship,

splitting the HMS Curacoa in half.

- [Shane] Boy I, how much

bigger was it, 20 times bigger?

- [Ryan] 20 times bigger.

- [Shane] That just fuckin' cut through

that thing like a hot butter patty.

- Butter patty?

- Yeah, like a hot butter patty.

- That's not what it's called.

Some members of the Curacoa

were killed instantly

on impact while others were

thrown into the freezing water,

watching as the men who

remained on board sank,

trapped within the remains of the vessel

and for those left on the water

that didn't die from hypothermia,

it is said that the current

of the Queen Mary carried them in,

chopping them up in the propellor.

(Shane groans)

- [Ryan] That's all you gotta

say about that? (groans)

- [Shane] Boats are tough, you know?

- [Ryan] Boats are tough?

- [Shane] It's not an

easy life, boat life.

- [Ryan] Due to war protocol,

the Captain of the Queen

Mary, Cyril Illingworth

was not able to stop to

rescue the passengers

and they pushed forward,

reporting the incident to

nearby British Destroyers.

But by the time the British arrived

about two hours later, it was too late.

Many had already died from hypothermia

and of the 430 crew members

onboard the HMS Curacoa,

only 99 survived.
It is said that you can hear the screams

of the Curacoa passengers

in the boiler room

of the Queen Mary and

some claim that the bow

of the ship is a hotspot due to the fact

that it's where the

Queen Mary made contact

with the Curacoa.

- [Shane] Are you scared right now?

- Yeah, you're not

fuckin' scared right now?

- [Shane] Are you just afraid

of anything that's old?

- [Ryan] Dude, do you have any

idea where we are right now?

- [Shane] It's a boat.

- [Ryan] Right now we're

in the bow of the ship.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] This is where the

ship struck the Curacoa.

- [Shane] We're in her belly.

- That's the cargo hold, they

used to keep POWs down there.

I got a new toy, this is

a FLIR Thermal Camera.

So if there's any ghosts here,

we may be able to pick

up their heat signature.

Look at you, look at

your little stupid face.

(Ryan laughs)

Normally I'm against asking

or communicating with ghosts

but if I'm truly gonna be

actually an investigator in this,
I have to right?
- Yeah, do it.

Go on, Ryan. Go on, talk to them.

- You know my history with this boat.

- Be direct.

- Shut up, you, shut up.

First off, sorry for

what I said last time.

- What did you call it?

- I called it a motherfucker,
I called it a coward.

- Ryan.

- And I said this whole ship is bullshit.

We're not here to hurt you, oh god,

and I think you're not here to hurt me.

- Though Ryan is very angry

about that toothpaste incident.

- Shut up, Shane.

- He told me before we got here.

- Shut your stupid mouth. (laughing)

- Ghost spirits?

Spirit, show yourself.

- No, don't, what are you doing?

- You said to be direct.

- Yeah, but don't be Bruce

Willis from "Die Hard."

- Spirit.

- We had a scavenger hunt

one day for some youngsters.

Well no one ever found their

way down there that day

so I was there by myself and

I'm standing there tapping
on the woodwork next to the
porthole and I thought well,

(knuckles tapping)

wouldn't it be weird
if somebody responded?

And lo and behold, just on the other side

of the wall I heard somebody go tap, tap.

Could it have been my

imagination? Of course.

Could it have been a spirit? Well, maybe.

(metal tapping)

- [Ryan] Don't mess with it.

- [Shane] Bum, bum, ba-bum, bum.

- I mean you could try that.

Ah man, if this-

(metal tapping)

(eerie music)
(metal creaking)

Wait.

- It's just creaking, it's fine.

- Why did it do it right then?

Do it again.

(knuckles tapping)

Okay we're good, nothing happened.

No, we're good, we're good again.

Yeah, we're good, it's all good.

It's all good. It's all good.

Other alleged deaths include two women

who drowned in the First

Class swimming pool.

One apparition appears in 1930s clothing

and the other in 1960s.

There's also reports of a
little boy who fell overboard

near the pool who now

haunts the passageway.

A little girl named

Jackie also is reported

to haunt the swimming pool areas.

- [Shane] I just think it's embarrassing

for them to drown in a pool on a boat.

- [Ryan] That's true.

Also, was there no lifeguard on duty?

- [Shane] You've, you're on a thing

that has conquered buoyancy.

- [Ryan] They drowned on top

of the ocean in the ocean.

- [Shane] Yeah. Yeah.

- [Ryan] According to the

ship's current captain,

during World War II a cook

died in horrific fashion.

Apparently he was shoved into

an oven by Australian soldiers

and consequently burned to death.

- [Shane] Wait, wait, wait, what happened?

- [Ryan] Australian
soldiers, they had picked up,

who did not like the food

took the chef and instead

of giving him one star on

Yelp, shoved him into an oven.

Maybe that's why they created Yelp.

- [Shane] Cooks were

tired of being murdered.

- [Ryan] Many say his

screams can still be heard.

- [Woman] Yeah, we heard a glass break

a couple seconds ago too.

- Yeah, did you hear that?

- Yeah, we are right next to,

I mean down the hall is the

galley where the kitchen was.

(eerie music)

I'm a little unnerved

that the clanking did

come from the kitchen.

- That doesn't sit super well.

- Oh wow, you're actually

admitting to something for once.

In 1966, an 18-year-old
crewman was crushed

by door number 13, an

automatically closing door,

during a watertight drill.

His ghost is sometimes seen

wearing white coveralls.

- It looks very confusing,

it looks like it'd be pretty easy

to get crushed to death here.

- I mean this is just in itself

even if this is not spiritually active,

I mean look at this place.

- [Shane] It's a marvel.

It's just massive.

- [Ryan] There's just numbers,

how could anyone possibly know

what the hell is going on down here?

- [Shane] Number 13, is

this where it happened?

- No, this is not.

This is where lubrication happened.

Lubrication oil pump

controllers, to be exact.

- A little seaman lubrication.

- Jesus Christ, no.

- Huh?
- No.

- [Shane] That's funny.

- And I think this is it right here.

This is door number 13.

Do I feel strange right here?

Yep, I don't like it, I'm

gonna get out of that.

It is crazy that of all the numbers

he could've gotten stuck in, 13.

Okay, now I'm starting

to get scared again.

Hello there, is anybody here?

Please show us a sign, make a bang.

Be nice.

(metal clanks)
(dramatic music)

(Shane laughing)

No, no fuckin' way, no.

- It's clearly just

some machine turning on.

- If that was,

if, no that's gotta be,

that's an engine right?

- [Shane] Yeah probably, or a ghost.

- Right now I'm talking the gentleman

who got crushed in this door.

If you're here still,

please show yourself.

Not seeing it, just light bulbs and shit.

I'm not seeing anything,

not seeing anything.

Scanning, scanning.

(dramatic music)

(Ryan gasps)

- [Shane] Did you see something?

- Look at this, it's just a light.

It's just a light but it looks

like someone looking out.

Does that not?

- Yeah it does.

- [Ryan] Holy shit, dude-

- [Shane] Like a human

being staring at you.

- [Ryan] that scared

the holy shit out of me.

Other hotspots on the ship

include the engine room,

the safe room, the R-Deck

forward bow storage,

the wheelhouse, the propeller box

and finally the isolation ward

where the sick and those diagnosed

with a contagious disease

were kept away from the other passengers

and in some cases the

isolation ward served

as a makeshift prison.

Let's do this.

- [Shane] Whoa.
(both screaming)

No, no, no. No, no, no.

- Gave me heart attack!

- [Shane] The pigeon looked scared too.

- Oh my God I almost,

my fucking heart almost exploded, dude.

- [Shane] Your hard-on exploded? What?

(eerie music)

- Shit, shit.

What the fuck, dude.

Check that out.

(mysterious music)

Let's move on to the final

stage of the investigation,

spending the night on the ship.

We've been given access

to the most haunted

cabin on the Queen Mary,

Cabin B340.

- You're in for a real

experience tonight in there.

- You're really gonna hate this.

- [Ryan] Yeah, I imagine

I'm gonna hate this.

Okay, about to look at

this for the first time.

You've gotta be fucking shitting me, dude.

Are you fucking kidding me?

No, no, no, no, no.

No, no.
- We gotta sleep in here.

- This is where we're sleeping tonight.

- You're gonna lose your mind.

- Yeah I'm gonna lose my mind, of course.

Workers that have worked

on this ship for decades

in some cases, they never

go in there by themselves

and when I told them that

we're sleeping in there,

they laughed and told me

I was an idiot to my face.

- Well.
- So, that's fun.

The cabin has reports

of voices, beds shaking,

water running and lights

being turned on by itself.

In fact, Cabin B340 has

garnered so many reports

and complaints of activity

that it was actually shut down

and ripped apart about 25 years ago.

Since then, nobody's been

allowed to sleep inside

until tonight when we

will attempt to sleep

inside Cabin B340 for the

first time in nearly 25 years.

I don't think we've ever attempted

something more idiotic than this.

Holy shit.

Are you kidding me?

This is a nightmare room.

If there's anybody in here

that wants to talk to us,

say something.

(scanner beeping)

If there's, please god no,

if there's, if there, oops.

Was that, did you just fart?

- I did.

- You piece of shit, Shane.

- Does my fart scare you?

- [Ryan] Are you fucking kidding me, dude?

- It was an accident, I
didn't do that on purpose.

- It just slipped,

it just slipped right

out your butt cheeks.

- If I see anything at all tonight

that awakes something in me,

then I'll join you in

this weird little camp.

- And you'll be me.

- I'll be you.

- Man, bed's shaking

in here, that's gnarly.

Ha, joke's on them, no bed to shake.

- Ha ha, gotcha ghost.

It's an empty room,

what is the ghost even gonna do in there?

- I don't know, poke me in the face

like it did when I was 17?

Oh crap, I'm already doing it,

I'm starting to psyche myself out again.

- [Shane] Just focus on how tired you are.

(animal screeching)

Well what the fuck is that?

(dramatic music)

Are those cats fighting?

- Dude, what the fuck is going on?

- [Shane] Is there
animals fighting outside?

- No that doesn't sound like

animals, it sounds like static.
- [Shane] No, those were outside.

- Oh it was?
- Yeah.

- I mean we tried to
sleep at the Sally House

and every time I fell

asleep, you woke me up.

- Yeah, well I can't make any promises

that you're gonna stay awake tonight.

- I am going to go to sleep.
- No, you're not.

- And if you try to wake me up,

I'm just going to ignore you.

- I'm gonna pour water on your face.

- You do whatever the hell you want,

I'm not gonna acknowledge you.

- [Ryan] You know, what was that?

- [Shane] I don't know, some bullshit.

- You didn't hear it?

- No.

- It sounded like a voice.

- A voice?
- Yeah.

- [Shane] You've somehow

tricked me into not being upset

that you're still talking

but I'm gonna go to sleep,

I'm gonna try again.

I don't know what you did.

(Ryan laughs)

I'm angry again.

- [Ryan] Shane?

- [Shane] Mm?

- [Ryan] Did you, you just kick me?

- [Shane] Yeah I did, sorry.

- [Ryan] Oh.

What the fuck, it's morning

and we're still here.

- [Shane] Yeah.

- [Ryan] I wasn't stabbed to

death with a butter knife.

- The room is clear.

- [Ryan] The room's clear

and now it's just an empty bare room

appropriate for a sitcom exit.

- Oh, we've had some fun times in here.

- (laughs) Farewell to the Queen Mary.

- She's a beaut.

You're a beaut, you're a

beautiful lady, I love your bones.

- The prodigal son returned today

and didn't come back with as

much evidence as last time

but what a ship still.

- Oh, what a ship.

- [Ryan] You know I'm

still not prepared to say

this place is not haunted because

I very much believe it is.

- So it remains.

- [Ryan] The Queen Mary

is an 80-year-old ship

with plenty of rich yet tragic history.

Are there actually ghosts

that inhabit the halls

and decks of this former warship

or is that merely part of the narrative?

After spending one nearly
sleepless night in the ship,

I can certainly attest to the fact

that the Queen Mary may

be haunted but as always,

the answer will remain unsolved.

(eerie music)

- See you later, kitchen ghost.

(Ryan laughs)

Follow us, there's gonna be

a party in our room later

if you want to-

- Nope, nope, no, stop it.

This is fucked up.

Meanwhile Shane's over there

taking a squat. (laughs)

(eerie music)