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Thermosyphon Vs Kettle Reboiler

daraj
14 Oct 2014
Hi,

Iam trying to understand the usually listed limitationS of thermosiphon vs kettle when selecting reboiler type
for a particular preliminary design of column exchangers.

Two of the commonly listed points in literature are:

1. Thermosiphon reboiler is usually used in applications where the vaporization is not very high. i.e only
about a max of 20-30% of the inlet liquid to the reboiler is vaporized. The reason given is too much
vaporization can cause low heat transfter coefficient and make areas high because of bubbling, vapor
blanketing and such. 

Iam trying to understand why is this not happening in kettle and only with thermosiphon?

2. for a wide boiling mixture thermos are preferred to kettle. again Iam trying to understand the physics
behind these observations/thumb rules. why is it advantageous to go with thermo in this case? 

a simple explanation of the physics behind this would be helpful, thanks

Thanks

Vijay

Bobby Strain
14 Oct 2014
It is a choice based on cost, space, or other. The kettle is probably the economic choice for small systems with
low vapor flow. You see a lot of kettles in gas processing plants. But not many in refining or
chemicals/petrochemicals.

Bobby

xavio
14 Oct 2014
daraj,

1. Kettle reboiler is pool boiling vaporizer where tubes are immersed under boiling liquid, that's why it doesn't
have vaporization limit.

    You can have 100% vaporization if you want, but it would mean no bottom liquid from the column.

    Kettle reboiler returns only vapor to column, excess liquid is extracted as bottom product.

    Imagine the kettle you use for boiling water in your kitchen.

    The problems you mentioned above only happen to flow boiling vaporizer, where two-phase fluid is
returned to column.

2. Again imagine the kettle in your kitchen, if you boil wide-boiling mixture, light components will be
preferentially boiled-off, leaving heavy components to accumulate at the bottom of the kettle.

    If you use steam instead of gas stove, ever-increasing boiling point of your mixture will eventually equal
your steam temperature, causing pinch and ceasing heat transfer.

Hope it helps.

xavio

breizh
15 Oct 2014
Hi Daraj,

Probably good to read .

Hope this helps

Breizh

daraj
15 Oct 2014
Thanks for your inputs Bobby, xavio and Breizh.
 

xavio thanks for the points. I was imagining kettle reboiler as some kind of immersion heater with thetubes
immersed in the process fluid and tubes carrying steam. So at the surface of the tubes the process fluid is
getting vaporized and vapor is being formed. But the vapor blanketing and bubbling issue seems to be tied onl
to thermo, which is what I was wondering why

daraj
15 Oct 2014
"If you use steam instead of gas stove, ever-increasing boiling point of your mixture will eventually equal your
steam temperature, causing pinch and ceasing heat transfer.

"

but even a thermosiphon cannot solve this problem, right?

even in a thermo the light components boil off first. Its just that since we limit vaporization to less than 20%,
there is little chance of pinch happening. or am I missing something?

daraj
15 Oct 2014
also xavio, I have often seen kettle reboilers with bottom liquid products. so that 100% vaporization that you
are talking about is not that common. But vaporization is high as compared to thermo, I agree. But maybe 60-
80%

daraj
15 Oct 2014
also found a good article that explains somewhat the boiling regimes to keep in mind while designing a
reboiler. Useful article. I still did not get the physics behind the transition and how things work in kettle but
this should be a practically useful guide for any designer

http://www.cambchemt...s_CCTI_2010.pdf

PingPong
15 Oct 2014
In a thermosyphon reboiler part of the liquid from the reboiler return is usually recycled back to the reboiler
inlet, so the vaporization limit is not an issue.

Although in textbooks and websites reboilers are often shown as kettles, in actual practice they are seldom
used as such. (the same sources often show column trays with bubble caps, for which the same applies: bubble
caps are seldom used nowadays, only for very specific applications.)

In my 30 years of design work on refinery and petrochemical processes I can't remember ever having seen a
kettle reboiler being used on hydrocarbons. I only saw a few on amine regenerator and TEG regenerator.
Maybe they make sense on atmospheric columns.

In my experience kettles are more often used as a condensor or cooler (vaporizing refrigerant or generating LP
steam) than as a reboiler.

Edited by PingPong, 15 October 2014 - 08:05 AM.

xavio
15 Oct 2014
daraj, on 15 Oct 2014 - 1:36 PM, said:

 I was imagining kettle reboiler as some kind of immersion heater with thetubes immersed in the
process fluid and tubes carrying steam. So at the surface of the tubes the process fluid is getting
vaporized and vapor is being formed. But the vapor blanketing and bubbling issue seems to be
tied onl to thermo, which is what I was wondering why

The nucleate, transition, film boiling transitions happen to both vaporizer types.

So, your kettle can also experience vapor blanketing (film boiling) at some heat flux and temp. difference
combination.

However, the transitions are not related to vaporization ratio of the kettle because of its non-flowing, pool
boiling characteristic.

You can easily pick a "safe" operating point for your kettle and operate at desired boiling regime.

Therefore, it is easier to design a kettle than a thermosyphon.

 
In thermosyphon, vaporization ratio determines flow regime which, in turn, will affect heat transfer mode
and efficiency.

Boiling regimes and flow regimes are tied together, so it is more complex to design a thermosyphon.

If you don't design the hydraulics well, e.g. having too high vaporization ratio, you may end up with unstable
operation.

Here is one useful link:

http://www4.ncsu.edu...eatTransfer.pdf

daraj, on 15 Oct 2014 - 1:39 PM, said:

"If you use steam instead of gas stove, ever-increasing boiling point of your mixture will
eventually equal your steam temperature, causing pinch and ceasing heat transfer.

"

but even a thermosiphon cannot solve this problem, right?

even in a thermo the light components boil off first. Its just that since we limit vaporization to less
than 20%, there is little chance of pinch happening. or am I missing something?

You're right, you can limit the vaporization ratio as you want so that pinch can be avoided.

Good luck!

xavio

daraj
16 Oct 2014
Pingpong and xavio, thanks for the further inputs.

PingPong, on 15 Oct 2014 - 6:39 PM, said:

In a thermosyphon reboiler part of the liquid from the reboiler return is usually recycled back to
the reboiler inlet, so the vaporization limit is not an issue.

 
  

I think it depends on the return convention used. In the software that I use there are options for on-stage or
above-stage return and whether the columns has baffles at the bottom or not. So depending on he option
chosen the liquid from the reboiler return might go to the stage above and might not get mixed up with the
liquid coming down to the reboiler, if I understood what you said correctly.

xavio, what you said about the link between flow  regime and boiling regime, I think that's the crux of the
issue here. I believe that was what I was looking for. I'll read up more on this link to understand things better,
thanks.

PingPong
16 Oct 2014
Quote

I think it depends on the return convention used. In the software that I use there are options for
on-stage or above-stage return and whether the columns has baffles at the bottom or not. So
depending on he option chosen the liquid from the reboiler return might go to the stage above
and might not get mixed up with the liquid coming down to the reboiler, if I understood what you
said correctly.

"Return convention used" ? You need to design the column bottom section to suit the chosen reboiler type, not
the other way around.

Unless you have a very good reason to select a kettle reboiler, you design the column bottom for a
thermosyphon reboiler, preferably with proper baffling and recirculation of part of reboiled liquid, to get
right % vaporization at reboiler outlet. Designing for once through thermosyphon is often asking for
operational trouble.

Edited by PingPong, 16 October 2014 - 03:41 AM.

Bobby Strain
16 Oct 2014
Once-through is not a thermosyphon.

Bobby

PingPong
16 Oct 2014
You may be right if the liquid is taken directly from the downcomer of the last tray, but not if the liquid from
that tray first falls in a compartment with a liquid level below the reboiler return nozzle.

However I am used that in both cases it is called a once-through thermosyphon. It is so in my company design
manual and in all other sources that I have read through the years. Google also gives plenty of hits for once-
through thermosyphon.

Edited by PingPong, 16 October 2014 - 10:01 AM.

Bobby Strain
16 Oct 2014
My main point is that the system hydraulic design is significantly different. I always used HTRI for
thermosyphon reboiler design. Forced-feed- once-through is a much less complicated design.

Bobby

daraj
19 Oct 2014
Bobby and pingpong, thanks for further clarifications

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