DR Alok Kumar is a professor of

Physics at the State University of New

York at Oswego. He completed his
PhD at Kanpur University. He has
been the National President of the
American Chapter of the Indian
Physics Association during 1995-97
and President of Sigma Xi (Oswego
Chapter) during 1995-96. He has
authored more than 60 scientific
publications in Atomic Physics,
Chemical Physics, History of Science,
and Science Education including the
groundbreaking works Science of
Ancient Hindus and A History of
Science in World Cultures. His next
significant work is titled Ancient Hindu
Science: Its Transmission and Impact
on World Cultures will be available in
May 2018 in India.
He was awarded the President
Award for Creative and Scholarly
Activity or Research, SUNY Oswego.
In an interview to Organiser
Correspondent Prashanth
Vaidyaraj, Dr Alok Kumar provides
rare insights into sciences of ancient
Hindus and answers a wide range of
questions on modern and traditional
sciences, his work and research.
Excerpts:

While most Indian students

today are aware of the contribution
of ancient Greeks to modern
science, exact contributions of
ancient Indian scientists are
largely unknown. Can you please
briefly mention the major
contributions of ancient Indians to
modern sciences?
Modern science and medicine
would be unrecognisable, and far
more primitive, without the immense
contribution of the ancient Hindus.
They invented everyday essentials
such as our base-ten number
system, with place-value notations,
and zero as a numeral. The ancient
Hindus also developed a move; it was done to perform
sophisticated system of medicine
with its mind-body approach known
as Ayurveda; detailed anatomical and
surgical knowledge of the human
body, including cataract surgery and
the so-called plastic surgery;
metallurgical methods of extraction
and purification of metals, including
the so-called Damascus blade;
knowledge of various constellations
and planetary motions that was good
enough to assign motion to the Earth;
and the science of self-improvement
popularly known as yoga. My book,
Sciences of the Ancient Hindus,
covers these topics in detail.
Just imagine the modern world
without the mathematical revolution
of the ancient Hindus. The scientific
revolution during the European
Renaissance was a result of this
mathematical revolution that has its
origin in India. For example, we write
numbers using the Hindu numerals.
The uniqueness of this system lies in
the fact that the position of a numeral
qualifies its magnitude. Tens,
hundreds, or thousands are not
represented by different signs; they
are represented by using digits in
different positions. Notice that the
one is in the second place in 10 (ten),
in the third place in 100 (hundred),
and in the fourth place in 1,000
(thousand). Also, zero as a numeral
with no magnitude and simply a
location occupier was an enormous
philosophical and scientific triumph.
Calculations in the absence of Hindu
place-value-notation, where we write
eleven as one and one, are quite
difficult to perform. This is the reason
that the Greek, Roman, and other
numeral systems were discarded
even in their own lands. For example
in the Roman system, eleven is
written as ten and one (XI). It is quite
difficult and slow process to perform
mathematical operation in this
Roman system. This is the reason
that Copernicus discarded the
Roman mathematical system and
used the Hindu system in his book.
He provided the rationale of this
calculations at a much faster rate.
The Hindu system is so advanced
and, yet, so simple that children are
taught to write eleven as one and one
(11), written side-by-side, from their
earliest period when they also learn
their native alphabet.
In modern perspective, just
imagine reading the values of various
stocks in a newspaper. In a quick
scan, you can recognise easily that
1089 is greater than 951. All you
need to see is that the first number
has four digits while the second
number has only three. This is
enough for a quick comparison. In
contrast, in the Roman numerals, XC
(90) is five times more in magnitude
than XVIII (18). This is not easy to
figure out in a quick glance. Also,
mathematical operations of
multiplication, division, addition and
subtraction become much simpler in
a place-value notation.
Similar examples related to
Trigonometry, Algebra, plastic surgery,
body-mind system of Ayurveda, and
metallurgical skills of the Hindus can
also be cited, and are provided in my
book, Sciences of the Ancient Hindus.
It is said that ancient Indians
had detailed knowledge of
metallurgical methods of
extraction and purification of
metals, including making of the
Damascus blade. Our surgical
sciences too were advanced. How
can we resurrect the original
methods and gain from it to make
better products in the future?
Yes, the surgical tools of Sushruta,
the person who explained the so-
called plastic surgery during the
pre-Christian era, could dissect a hair
longitudinally. Similarly, King Poros,
after losing the battle with Alexander
the Great, and receiving the gift of life
from Alexander, was deeply in
gratitude. Alexander not only
bestowed life to him, but Porus also
received his kingdom back. Porus
wanted to give precious gifts to
Alexander to demonstrate his
gratitude. Along with other items,
Porus gave 6000 pounds of steel to
Alexander. The best steel in Persia
(Iran) was called foulade Hind,
meaning steel of Hind. We can
resurrect original methods, improve
on these methods, and produce better
products only by first documenting our
history in India. This is the starting
point and we have not done that as
yet. My book, Sciences of the Ancient
Hindus, is not the final answer on this
issue. It simply provides a new
beginning to these efforts.
The history of science that is
taught in India, does not consider
ancient traditional sciences
worthy of the modern syllabus.
Rationalists ask for evidence for
origin of our achievements. Do we
have concrete evidence to prove
the achievements of our ancient
scientists? If yes, are they
acceptable to modern sciences?
All modern syllabi in the history of
science do consider ancient traditional
sciences of the Greeks. It is only the
non-Western contributions that are
missing. Yes, we do have evidence
from the non-Western scholars that is
as good as we have for Pythagoras,
Thales, Democritus, and Socrates, to
name a few from the Greek tradition.
The works of Aryabhata, Kanada,
Varahmihir, Brahmgupta, Charaka,
and Susruta are certainly par
excellence. In my book, Sciences of
the Ancient Hindus, I made special
efforts to avoid the ridicule of many
such rationalists and focused on the
ancient and medieval accounts of the
Greek, Chinese, Egyptian, Arabian,
and European literature to get
information about Hindu science and
technology. As mentioned above, the
mosaic that emerges from these
foreign documents corroborates what
my parents told me when I was a
child. India did have a prime past.
Since such studies of the ancient and
medieval foreign literature that deal
with ancient India are almost non-
existent, modern science texts still do
not recognise Indian contributions in
a coherent way. My book provides a
new beginning to the issue. I have not
received any specific criticism of my
assertions from other scholars. With
time, I assume that the contents of my
book, Sciences of the Ancient Hindus,
will become a mainstream knowledge.
My other book, A History of Science in
World Cultures: Voices of Knowledge,
is the next step in assimilating cultural
contributions of various civilisations
that are acceptable to modern
science.
Today both theoretical and
practical sciences are on the path
of achieving new breakthroughs.
Yet, the ultimate aim of science
remains unknown. Can ancient
sciences, especially ancient Indian
sciences, provide any clues as to
where science is headed?
The connection between religion
and science in Hindu literature is an
interesting, and perhaps unexpected,
variation from the Western model.
The sciences of the ancient Hindus
were an essential and integral part of
their religion, as it was for the
Mayans, Arabs, and Egyptians. The
disciplines of Astronomy,
Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics,
Yoga, and Medicine were all practiced
to meet the needs of religion, as well
as to fulfill natural curiosity.
Narada, in Chandogya Upanishad,
considers Astronomy and
Mathematics relevant to achieve
liberation (Moksha). Aryabhata, in
his book Aryabhatiya, considers
Astronomy, Mathematics, Physics
and other sciences crucial to know
about the Supreme Being. Since
science was a prescription to moksa,
it became imperative for scientists to
find true knowledge. Thus, science
could grow independently and
scientists could investigate whatever
they deemed fit. This led Al-Mas`udi
(d. 957 AD), an Islamic historian
during the tenth century, to write that
science and technology were
established without the aid of
religious prophets in India. It was the
logic, intuition, and experience of
diligent observers (rishis) that
contributed to the domain of science.
Al-Mas`udi considered India as the
land of “virtue and wisdom.”
Your previous book, ‘Sciences of
the Ancient Hindus’, has a very
bold description on Amazon. It
says, “Modern science and
medicine would be unrecognisable
without the immense contribution
of the ancient Hindus.” You have
already listed our contributions
above but how do modern
scientists the world over view this
claim? Who are the prominent
scientists who concur with this and
in which area?
The knowledge I have shared in my
book, Sciences of the Ancient Hindus,
is quite new to the mainstream
academia. Therefore, it is premature
to summarise its impact. However,
scientists who have read the book are
convinced of the validity of my
assertions. I am receiving positive
input from my fellow historians of
science. In the past, several other
scientists, including Robert
Oppenheimer (father of atom bomb),
Erwin Schrodinger (Noble Laureate in
Physics), and Brian Josephson (Noble
Laureate in Physics), who studied the
ancient Hindu literature, have shared
similar opinions. My book, Sciences of
the Ancient Hindus, does provide a
large number of such corroborating
statements from other noted scholars.
‘Sciences of the Ancient Hindus’
is a subject that has been
neglected for long and is deemed
controversial in main stream
academia and media here. Any
attempt to introduce our ancient
sciences in school syllabus is
opposed as it is deemed as
‘saffronisation’. In this scenario,
please let us know how your work
could be taken forward so that it
becomes a part of science
education and also public
knowledge.
Unfortunately, this is the nature of
our pseudo-secular environment in
India these days. We should not label
studies of ancient sciences as
“saffronisation.” Instead people in
India should ask this question: Is it
true? If yes, we must include sciences
of the ancient Hindus in academia to
train our future generations to know
about their heritage. It is done in the
Western education too; it is done in
most cultures. India is an exception in
this respect that we have not done
this so far.
The history of science is not the
history of events; it is the history of
culture, intents, and a history of
human minds. It tells us how various
cultures recognised issues that they
found crucial and resolved them.
Such knowledge is important in
dealing with the unknown future we
deal with. Knowing what we were in
the past helps us to understand what
we are in the present, and how we
will be in the future. If you don’t know
your history, then you are like a limb
that doesn’t know it is part of a tree.
Further, all countries celebrate their
great heroes, including the great
scientific and mathematical minds of
the past and present. Greece had
Aristotle and Socrates, Italy had
Galileo and Leonardo Fibonacci,
England had Maxell and Newton,
France had Laplace and Fourier, and
India had Kanada and Aryabhata,
showing that the greatest minds of
the ancient Hindus could be a match
for the world’s best scientists and
mathematicians. Just imagine
erasing the name of Pythagoras,
Aristotle, and Plato from the current
philosophy texts because it is an old
past and, therefore, irrelevant! I am
using this argument since some
rationalists in India use this against
the sciences of the ancient Hindus.
Will it be just and fair? The answer
is a clear and emphatic “no”. This is
exactly the case when we ignore our
own heroes in India unjustly.
Even in the West, just a thousand
years ago, India was considered as
the leader in science and technology.
The first popular history of science
book with a global view was written
in Spain during the eleventh-century
Muslim Spain by Said al-Andalusi.
He ranked different civilisations
based on their excellence in science
and technology. In his ranking, India
was defined as number one. It is this
knowledge of Europe that got
distorted during the colonial period of
Europe unjustly and needs to be
revised.
In the context of teaching and
learning, avoiding our own heroes is
detrimental to the learning process.
Celebration and recognition of our
heroes in all disciplines serves as
glue for a stable society. For this
reason, most societies document
their own histories.