Conversations with Tyler Podcast Script

Intro music…

Tyler Cowen: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Conversations with Tyler. Today, I’m
honored to be sitting here with the authors of “Income inequality and violent crime: Evidence
from Mexico's drug war,” an article that was published in the Journal of Development
Economics in 2016. I am joined today by Ted Enamorado, Luis F. Lopez-Calva, Carlos
Rodriguez-Castelan, and Hernan Wrinklers. Ted is a current Assistant Professor of Political
Science at Washington University in St. Louis as well as a previous student at Princeton
University (https://www.tedenamorado.com/). Luis, Carlos, and Hernan are all employees at the
World Bank. The goal of their paper was to “examine the effect of inequality on crime rates in a
unique context, Mexico's drug war” (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent Crime"
128). I am super excited to have them on my podcast today as this is a topic I have done some
research on and am interested in diving into. I hope everyone listening today can gain more
knowledge about this topic, so without further ado, please give it up to Ted, Luis, Carlos, and
Hernan!

Ted Enamorado: Thanks Tyler, I am excited to be here as well!

Luis F. Lopez-Calva: Yeah thanks Tyler, honored to be on the show!

Carlos Rodriguez-Castelan: Hey Tyler, it is nice to finally meet you! I am excited to hear some of
the questions you have planned!

Hernan Wrinklers: Happy to be here as well!

Tyler: Super happy to have you on the show today, and why don’t we jump right into the
questions! I would like to address my first question to Ted. I understand that performing research
on the relationship between inequality and crime could have some external factors, so I was
wondering what were some of the things you guys considered before diving into your research.

Enamorado: Great question, Tyler. This was definitely something my team and I had to
brainstorm before conducting our research. To begin, due to various external factors such as
weak evidence, biased statistics, and reverse causality, we decided to place "a focus on
within-country variation" to counteract these factors (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and
Violent Crime" 128).
Tyler: Oh, got it! As a professor at George Mason University within the economics department,
we urge our students to perform preliminary research to determine where to place their focus and
what factors can come into play. This is the first step necessary for any research.

Enamorado: That’s great to hear Tyler, it is super important to make sure your research is not
being swayed by external factors.

Cowen: Completely agree with you Ted! What type of statistical measures did you guys use for
your research?

Lopez-Calva: The main variable we utilized was the Gini coefficient, which enabled us to
"isolate the component of change inequality that is driven by national trends and that is not
influenced by local factors such as the homicide rate" (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and
Violent Crime" 128). As Ted discussed, we wanted to avoid external factors in our research so
the qualities of the Gini coefficient were very useful.

Cowen: Yeah it seems to be perfect for your guy’s research. Now that we have gone over some
of the preliminary work before your research, I was wondering why you chose to study Mexico,
and what the environment looked like during the drug war.

Rodriguez-Castelan: Uh-huh. See Tyler, Mexico was a great place to study as it was very clear
that there was a strong correlation between the two factors of our study. For example, the total
rate of homicides in Mexico showed a decrease from 1990 to 2005, but since the launch of the
drug war by the government in 2006, the trend has changed and become more volatile. It was
quite interesting for my team and me to notice this trajectory change during the drug war launch,
and we wanted to further investigate this trend(Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent
Crime" 128-129). In fact, as we put forth in our study “in 2005, the total rate of homicides was
close to 11 per 100,000 individuals” and “by 2010, it was 18.5 per 100,000 individuals according
to data reported by the Technical Secretariat of Mexico's Sistema Nacional de Seguridad
Publica….” (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent Crime" 128-129).

Cowen: Wow man! That is crazy! Did the drug war seem to have a similar impact on other parts
of life, or did it strictly impact homicide rates?

Wrinklers: We actually did some analysis on this as we also wanted to see if this was just some
sort of country-wide phenomenon or rather a direct relationship. We discovered that there were
twice as many deaths related to non-drug crimes in 2005, while there were three times as many
drug-related homicides than deaths from non-drug crimes in 2010. Yeah, I said that right! These
figures did a complete “180.” As you may assume, these figures also had adverse effects on the
economy of Mexico (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent Crime" 129).
Cowen: Hmm. Let me get that straight. In 2005, there were twice as many deaths related to
non-drug crimes, and in 2010 there were three times as many drug-related homicides than deaths
from non-drug crimes.

Wrinklers: Right!

Cowen: It really seems like the launch of the drug war in Mexico had some direct effects on
drug-related deaths. This is something that may seem intuitive to many, and the stats really prove
it.

Enamorado: Yeah totally Tyler!

Cowen: So you guys mentioned this Gini coefficient earlier. Do you mind refreshing me on how
that relates to some of the statistics you stated above?

Enamorado: Yeah for sure. Returning back to the Gini coefficient which was the measure we
used for income inequality, we discovered that "an increment of one point in the Gini coefficient
translates into an increase of more than 10 drug-related homicides per 100,000 inhabitants across
Mexican municipalities" (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent Crime" 129).
Furthermore, the same increase in the Gini coefficient has little to no effect on non-drug-related
homicides (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent Crime" 129).

Cowen: Ok, so this Gini coefficient is used as a measure of income inequality, correct?

Enamorado: Mhm. Essentially an increase of 1 unit of income inequality led to 10 additional

drug-related deaths per 100,000 individuals.

Cowen: Wow, there really is a clear association between income inequality and crime rates in
terms of the Gini coefficient. In terms of socio-economic factors, why do these figures seem to
be occurring?

Enamorado: Well, to start we must consider two groups to analyze when a country is
experiencing increases in income inequality. The first group would be those who are becoming
wealthier, while the second is those who are losing money. As the incomes of the wealthy go up,
the average income for a community increases which leads to higher rent prices. This puts
underprivileged communities in a difficult situation, and as a result, "criminal activity becomes a
rational decision for a larger group of people" (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent
Crime" 129).
Cowen: These lower-income communities are really put in tough positions as they scramble to
provide for their families and pay rent. I can see how these select communities may turn towards
crime to… sadly… live life.

Rodriguez-Castelan: Yeah it truly is sad, but there are some ways to avoid this from even
happening in the first place.

Cowen: Oh, interesting! What do you mean by that?

Wrinklers: Tyler to be completely frank with you, there were various reasons for the rise in crime
due to Mexico's drug war. This included but was not limited to "the domestic drug enforcement
policy, increases in the price of drugs, the expanded supply of guns, and the more frequent
deportation of immigrants with a criminal record from the United States" as well as other
"socioeconomic indicators" (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and Violent Crime" 137). All
of these factors combined to make an environment that was primed for crime and violence.

Cowen: Hernan, Luis, Carlos, and Ted, thank you very much! Before we wrap up was there
anything else you guys wanted to add?

Enamorado: Tyler, thank you so much for having us! I would like to clarify to the audience that
while we have worked "to isolate and quantify the magnitude of the causal direction of the
interaction between inequality and crime," we believe “further work could focus precisely on
disentangling the actual magnitudes of these effects” (Enamorado, et al. "Income Inequality and
Violent Crime" 137). We would love to see what others can discover within this field!

Cowen: Thanks for the information Ted, we will make sure to link your research paper down
below so listeners can take a deeper look into it.

Lopez-Calva: Thanks, I had a great time!

Rodriguez-Castelan: Thanks Tyler, thank you for inviting us.

Wrinklers: Thanks for the well-thought-out questions Tyler, it was nice speaking with you!

Cowen: Thank you, guys, so much for taking time out of your busy schedules to join my podcast.
It was great to learn more about this topic, and I am sure our listeners learned a lot! This is
Conversations with Tyler, and we will see you next time!

Outro music…
Raghav Thondikulam

Professor Zisa

Writing 2

3 February 2023

Reflective Activity

As a Financial Mathematics and Statistics student, I have always wanted to learn about

the connection between income inequality and violent crime. I set forth for finding an article

related to this topic and discovered the article "Income inequality and violent crime: Evidence

from Mexico's drug war,” which argues that there is a clear association between income disparity

and violent crime within Mexico during the drug war. This is an example of a peer-reviewed

research article on economics so the genre conventions are research and showing evidence

through statistics. With that in mind, the author’s immediate audience is described by the group

that is working in the discipline of economics. This can be identified by the jargon-specific

terms, such as the Gini coefficient, and complex quotes within the research article. This can be

interpreted, however, as a writer I had to translate for my new genre, intended audience, and

rhetorical purpose and present this information in a presentable manner. The rhetorical purpose

of this article is to inform the audience about the correlation stated above and influence people to

change their opinions which may further develop new policies down the line.

It was important to think about who belongs to the intended audience I wanted to reach

when thinking about how to approach writing my genre translation. This was similar to Bunn’s

advice that before one starts reading, one should ask themselves “who the intended audience is

for this piece of writing” (76). I decided to engage with college economics students as I believe

this audience would be most interested in learning about the relationship between income
inequality and crime in Mexico during the drug war due to the nature of my research article

being one that is related to economics. To ensure that this podcast properly reached this crowd, I

decided to set up an interview with Tyler Cowen, the host of Conversations with Tyler, as this

podcast was being produced at George Mason University. The interviewees were the authors of

the article I chose, as they served as experts on this topic. I chose to set up my genre translation

like this to establish ethos within my podcast.

I believe that podcasts would be the most effective method of reaching college economics

students because many students gain knowledge through media, such as podcasts. Podcasts can

be listened to at any point of the day and do not need to be listened to in one setting which is

good for college students who have busy schedules. Podcasts appear on streaming platforms such

as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Some genre conventions within podcasts are showing

an understanding of both sides of an argument, as well as expressing opinion and credibility.

Since current college students are traditionally Generation Z, it is important to show knowledge

and credibility when sharing information. This subgenre of educational podcasts aimed at college

students is supposed to provide insight for listeners. It was important that I make strategic use of

logos and ethos by including figures and direct quotations from the research article to prove the

authors’ findings. I also included specific genre conventions of a podcast script which include

the host’s name followed by his or her dialogue and the guests’ name(s) followed by their

dialogue to bolster the ethos of my podcast. Other conventions of typical podcast include

engaging the audience through humor or posing questions. The rhetorical purpose of my genre

translation is to make this research article easily understandable for college economics students.

A challenge I faced while writing my genre translation was determining which parts of

my research article were best to include in my podcast. The best way of approaching this was
thinking about what the audience wanted to hear. I wanted to simplify the statistics-related jargon

for economic students while explaining the importance that these values had for the authors

when coming up with their final conclusions. I did exclude some of the very technical aspects of

their research article such as the estimation strategy as it includes a lot of mathematics. My

approach to translating my article was to first think from the perspective of what my audience

wants to hear. After that, I read through my research article thoroughly and determined what

facts and conclusions should be included. These decisions that I made in anticipation of writing

my genre translation as well as while I was writing it are examples of Bunn's statement that "all

writing consists of a series of choices" (72). One must write with intent as the primary goal of

published writing is to reach as many people. As a result, I had to be detailed while deciding how

to write my genre translation. During my writing process, I first determined who I wanted to

direct my translation towards, next decided what platform the translation be posted on, and lastly

brainstormed on how I wanted to convey the authors’ research and findings. I chose this genre

because podcasts are a great way to get educated on various topics. By switching the genre from

a research article to a podcast, I will allow a new audience of college economics students to learn

about my article.

While writing my podcast script I used a very similar format to how Tyler Cowen would

when leading his own podcast. This reminded me of what I read in Dirk's "Navigating Genres"

article in which he states that "genres often have formulaic features, but these features can

change even as the nature of the genre remains" (253). While I was replicating the format of

Cowen's podcast to create my own, the context of the podcast differed largely compared to other

podcasts Cowen held. Similar to Cowen, I formatted my genre translation into a podcast with

interview-like content. In contrast, for my podcast script it was integral that I broke down
numbers from the article with context to provide the audience with a more tangible appeal to

logos. Similar to Dirk's words, even though my podcast had similar features to Cowen's such as

introductions and questioning, the "features" of my podcast "[changed] even as the nature of the

genre [remained]" (253). Dirk’s words serve as a great example of why genre translations are

possible. Furthermore, he proves when writing in a genre that you are unfamiliar with, it is useful

to use other examples of writing within the same genre.

This writing project has taught me a lot about the various techniques used for genre

translations. To begin, I have learned that when moving from one genre to another, one must

think about who the intended audience will be, and what the genre conventions and rhetorical

purpose of their new genre are. By translating my research article to a podcast, I had to ensure

that I used logos and ethos to capture the attention of listeners and inform them of the key

takeaways of my research article. I achieved this by choosing Conversations with Tyler to be my

podcast and explaining the statistics in easy-to-understand terminology. The goal of my podcast

was to engage college economics students and teach them about the relationship between income

inequality and violent crime within Mexico, and I believe I have done so through my genre

translation.
 Works Cited

Bunn, Mike. "How to Read Like a Writer." Writing Spaces: Readings on Writing, vol. 2,
Charles Lowe and Pavel Zemliansky, Parlor Press, 2011, pp. 71-86.

Dirk, Kerry. "Navigating Genres." Writing Spaces: Readings on Writing, vol. 1, edited by
Charles Lowe and Pavel Zemaliansky, Parlor Press, 2010, pp. 249-262.

Enamorado, Ted, et al. “Income Inequality and Violent Crime: Evidence from Mexico’s Drug
War.” Journal of Development Economics, vol. 120, 2016, pp. 128–43,
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jdeveco.2015.12.004.

Enamorado, Ted. Ted Enamorado, https://www.tedenamorado.com/. Accessed 2 Feb. 2023.