ISO Limits of Diesel Generator Sets

From: Willem
Remote Name: 195.249.147.128

Comments

Back to the question: the correct ISO guideline here is ISO 8528, especially part 9. ISO 10816-6 is
more intended for the use of the diesel only, wereas 8528 is 'Reciprocating internal combustion
engine driven alternating current generating sets' Furthermore I agree with Rob that the limits Arne
uses as very strict. In general manufactures of both diesel engines and turbo machines use far higher
limit (from the top of my head Caterpillar uses 34 mm/s (o-pk) as an acceptable during
commisioning. The higher allowable vibrations have to do with the free masses and moments inside
a diesel engine. These can not be take away, only controlled. There is one of the point of discussion:
you either put the diesels very tight on a concrete floor,(like in most industrial applications) giving
it no room to move or put it on a skit frame which is placed on vibration dampers. The latter allows
a lot of movement and thus the machine will have high vibration levels. This becomes more
complex when evaluating the vibration levels on the generator: what do you allow when the
generator is on the same (flexible)skit frame as the diesel? ISO guidelines use vibrations to evaluate
the vibrations generated by the machine itself, not from the external forces. (Arne and me already
had that discussion). ISO 8528 can help you out here. But if the generator is mounted on the
concrete and there is a flexible cupling between the diesel and the generator: 10816 will do :)
Regards Willem

Comments

No, the limits for a diesel-generator set of this size, mounted on the same frame, is roughly 20
mm/s. 4.5 mm/s is valid only if the generator os mounted independant of the engine.There is an ISO
norm for this, but i don't know which one (I am at home now). contact me if you need it. sorry for
the encrypted e-mail, but there is too much spam.

Comments

My suggestion is that we should not be either vendor nor enduser biased. Let us stay with facts,
please. The ISO 10816 Part 6 from 1995 has no classification of the various diesels in the world. It
gives 7 different classification numbers. The hardest is Number 1 at 4.5 mm/s rms as A: "The
vibration of newly commissioned machines would normally fall within this zone.". The levels are
stepped all the way up to 71 mm/s rms. ISO TC108/SC2 is asking for experiences from users of the
standard (page 5). Below I have expressed our experience from all sorts of diesels from a few kW to
several MW power from recent 30 years. If you like a good reliability and availability, you have to
respect that most techncial structures wear strongly under high vibrations. Most components do not
notice that they are mounted on a diesel and should behave per the higher levels in the standard! All
levels above 5 to 15 mm/s rms normally lead to cracks and wear. If you can afford that, you can be
forgiving. If the machine is important, and most diesel applications are, you have to be strict about
the applied acceptance levels. Old ISO 2372, now abandoned, Class 5, was much better in
alignment with real world results. You must, as user, be aware of that the ISO 10186/6 is a
negotiated result based on a lot of corridor sweet talk dominated by manufacturers. It must therefore
be applied with a lot of common sense and care. Any technical discussion is welcome. Regards
Arne

Comments

Our approach is to use 4.5 mm/s rms H or V or A at main bearings and on the generator bearing or
bearings H/V/A we use 3 mm/s rms as acceptance. The turbo is seen as a small machine and its own
contribution should be less than 2 mm/s rms to the total level, total should not exceed 3 mm/s rms.
If you get higher levels, check if they are load dependant and check what is the reason for high
levels. Focus those and discuss with vendor. I have found a range of serious vendors from small to
large diesels that well comply with above, plus a small range that are above, but also lead to higher
number of elementary problems. After some time enduser has modified "stupid" designs so the
aggregate can live on with normal levels.