Nadia and Beth

Wed, 3/16 2:13PM • 20:49

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
bully, parents, cyber bullying, students, online, school, posts, experienced, teacher, bullying, high
school, abuse, people, teenagers, friends, mom, account, happened, programs, grew

SPEAKERS
Beth, Nadia

Nadia 00:05
Hey, Beth, long time. How are you? And how was your internship by the way?

Beth 00:11
Yeah, good. It was really good. How did yours go?

Nadia 00:14
Yeah it was good, too, it was quite challenging. But I'm just doing my final report these days

Beth 00:20
oh I haven't even started mine. What was your focus area?

Nadia 00:24
I am focusing on cyber bullying. Because, yeah, the high school where I was doing my internship at has
this whole school approach of positive behavior for learning, and they conduct anti-cyberbullying
programs.

Beth 00:37
Oh wow

Nadia 00:38
Yeah, it's interesting. There are numerous cases in high schools where students use tech to bully other
students. Something crazy, like one in five Australian students experienced this.

Beth 00:48
That's just, that's crazy. But I'm so glad you're focusing on this growing up with technology is such an
interesting experience. Right? I remember in high school, and this is 10 years ago for me, like
Facebook was just introduced. And we didn't have programs about cyber bullying, and I was a victim of
it. And I looked at it differently.

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Nadia 01:10
What happened to you?

Beth 01:11
I was 15. So like the tuffs between girls, when they're 15 is, is just so normal. And I liked a boy that the
popular girl also liked and so there was a teenage war like drama of the century happened. And um,
yeah, it turned into more than just the normal name calling, which I'm sure you've experienced. But I
found myself in a situation where my identity was stolen, and a fake account was made about me, and
then the fake account bullied other people. And then I got bullied about it.

Nadia 01:42
What?

Beth 01:43
It is crazy, right? And I talked about it now. And I'm like, Well, why like what happened? But overnight,
this social media account just popped up. And then suddenly, there was another me online. And I was
just confused. I didn't own this account. And I knew that it wasn't me. So I started monitoring it from a
distance like what else can you do? And then I noticed that the account made less than desirable posts
about myself, and then the people who I liked, obviously, that boy, and then who I didn't like, obviously
the popular girl, and then it began to bully others on my behalf. And I soon became the scrutiny of
bullying in the schoolyard. It was just weird.

Nadia 02:25
Thatis horrible. For how long did this continue Beth?

02:29
a really long time. I'm going to say, six months to a year. Yeah,

Nadia 02:34
no way. How did you handle this all emotionally? You were only 15. For God's sake.

Beth 02:41
I know it was it was overwhelming. Like the day to day I just watched the statuses and the posts, and
then the lights on the page also grow. And then as soon as that started growing like the daily
namecalling, shoving down the stairs, rock throwing, it just it just continued and it grew and then so
much, so I didn't even want to walk home because people were following me. I was the girl who was
bullying everyone online.

Nadia 03:07
I'm really sorry, but that you had to go through all this even just trying to imagine your situation just
gives me goosebumps. Yes. Yeah. Did you ask for help from someone, your parents or friends?

Beth 03:19

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It took me a while. Like I finally built up the courage to talk to my my parents about it. And they did what
an uncaring parents would do. But as you know, parents aren't really tech savvy. I went straight to the
school and then they asked for help. But I'm like the physical bullying in the posts we're happening a
school. So we thought the school would help. But the school ended up doing nothing to be honest.

Nadia 03:42
Yeah. What about your friends, so

Beth 03:44
It was a pretty lonely time. Like I still had a few friends. But I knew, like they the ones who knew wasn't
me. Didn't really it didn't faze them. But I did lose a few. And I think the few that I did lose, just didn't
want to be bullied themselves. So I understand that and I can empathize with that, like, schoolyard
these experiences happened. And I'm sure everyone else has experienced something like this. Not
alarming, right?

Nadia 04:10
Yeah, yeah. It's actually good that you had some friends who stood by you. a support network.

Beth 04:17
Yeah, they're everything right? You couldn't? I don't think I could have gotten through it without it. Yeah,
but yeah, it's it kind of took over my period like, my life, to be honest, and my schoolwork suffered. So
funny as like, teenagers. You wouldn't think all my schoolwork suffering but as a future teacher, you
can kind of notice that right? Yeah. You know, just when your students are distracted, and I was always
distracted and anxious and on edge knowing that I wasn't in control of this. And I remember going to
school and I was so happy and I wanted to learn and I was so bubbly and my whole demeanor just
changed once this happened. Like I was always looking over my shoulder. And I was just always
waiting for the next post to come up.

Nadia 05:04
That's just painful to hear Beth, huh? So how did things get resolved, things get resolved.

Beth 05:10
This is the best part of the story, I guess. We eventually had to take it into our own hands and became
investigators. Every 15 year old girls thinks their their own investigator online, right? So we tried to find
out who actually owned the page. And the gossip train runs wild in high school. So we waited for that to
work. And it was actually the girl whose boyfriend who I liked. So the bully whole circle.

Nadia 05:38
So did she take it down?

Beth 05:40
No, of course not. Like, what would I do? Do you expect me to go up to her and be like, Hey, bully, do
you mind just politely taking that down?

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Nadia 05:47
Oh, what did the school do?

Beth 05:51
it? Yeah, it gets interesting here as well. After numerous debates with the school, the principal thought
it would be a great idea to publicly point out that this was happening. So their desperate attempt to get
it removed was just holding a school assembly and pointing it out. And you know, that would have been
great. And then the principal also thought it would be a great idea to get me, the girl who made the
account, those who were sharing the account, those who liked the statuses and commented on it into a
room and those who blindly followed it into a room to like, argue it out. So we're all in the principal's
office. I had my mom with me. And it wasn't like this. This made it any better. Like what were you
thinking?

Nadia 06:36
Yeah, that does not sound right to me. Yeah, I agree with the fact that the school should teach students
to be upstanders. Bystanders in the context of bullying. Yeah. But perhaps your principle was right to
call the students who blindly allowed it all sent to the office. Yes, yeah. But it definitely doesn't make
Anything's better for you, you know, as a victim, just just to be surrounded by all those students just
during your most vulnerable moment. Yeah.

Beth 07:06
And with your mum as well, like your mom sticking up for you, it was so embarrassing, and it definitely
didn't make it any better, or it was just more embarrassed and more uncomfortable. And I think that's
not what I needed in the moment. Right. You just created more drama, more talk for the schoolyard.
That's the last thing anyone wants. But in the end, we ended up going to the place like that was the last
thing,

Nadia 07:31
Please

Beth 07:33
Yeah. It's like a 15 year old walking into a police station be like, Hello, can you help me, but needless to
say, they couldn't do anything. Apparently, it's a civil matter. Okay. Yeah. Like, the only thing that they
said that we could do was press charges. And am I really going to do that? So I think, I think this is
where it hit me because I started to question Who was to be blamed? Like, it wasn't me. And I wasn't
been this person and who was to be blamed? Who was to get in trouble? And who was responsible?
Because it definitely, it's not me.

Nadia 08:12
You were 15.

Beth 08:14
And I'm not going to be like our 15 year old needs to be blamed. But who was I was 15. Right?

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Nadia 08:22
Yeah. But I'm glad your parents supported you through all this. Just having your people close to you
can be the only comfort in moments like this I suppose Yeah,

Beth 08:31
yeah, I'm definitely happy that I opened up to my parents, but also the way that they handled this
situation. And I mentioned my mum before, but your laugh, it was actually my mother, who ended up
stopping this. So my mums always stick up for their like, children, right. But um, my mother confronted
the bullying of the other mother. And she printed out all these pages of the social media account, it was
such a like a mum thing to do. And she presented it to the other mother, and was like, Look what your
daughter has done. And that was just the last attempt and it was crazy

Nadia 09:13
did your parents ever think about moving schools?

Beth 09:17
No, like, I don't think so. Because the school I was in was really the best school in the area at the time,
okay. And the school district or the schools around it, were a bit rough, and they were known for
bullying. So we didn't really want to move in. I didn't want to move so but like it goes to show it happens
anywhere, right? Anyway.

Nadia 09:39
Yeah, what happens to the girl, did she take the profile down?

Beth 09:44
Within a few days, it didn't get removed, and I guess that's the power of like, a mama bear sticking out
for you. But like the bullying continued for a bit. I was forever worried that I wouldn't regain my identity
in real life, or even online. It was just yeah

Nadia 10:00
That can be a life changing moment for many teenagers. I mean, I can't say I totally understand, but I
can sympathize. Does it make sense

Beth 10:00
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think everyone can sympathize with that in one way or another, we've all been
bullied.

Nadia 10:16
Yeah. I'm also glad that you're now in a position to talk about this Beth, just to share your experiences.
So another student does not have to go through what you went through.

Beth 10:26
Yeah, no, you're right. And I look back on it now. And I don't, I don't have hate, like, I'm not angry
anymore. Just really confused as to why it took that turn. But I also think my bully was kind of in a place

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of hurt, and I can now empathize with that we were 15, after all that. And at the same time, I'm aware of
the negative emotions and experiences of now being cyber bullied myself. So it's something that I take,
and I want to really advocate for, if I could do that against cyber bullying and the effects of it in my
teaching, and when I become a full teacher.

Nadia 11:04
This is This is wonderful to hear Beth, I feel that schools can really instill a sense of responsibility with
regard to students online behavior, I was actually very impressed by how my previous school had
teachers talking about identity, and cyberbullying, you know, just letting students know how the long
term impacts of it even if you're just the perpetrator or the victim. They also had heads of each grade,
dealing with both parties if any case was reported, unlike in your case, right, where it was only the
principal, and all these were communicated to the students during the programs. The school also made
repercussions clear. So and also informed them of the school's systematic way of handling such cases.
Yeah, I found that approach to be very effective

Beth 11:52
It sounds effective. Right.

Nadia 11:54
I have also come across this NSW education page about cyberbullying and teenagers. That is a very
informative page for both students and parents, I believe. Just have a look when you have time. Yeah,
I'll definitely be flagging that one. I think the guidance has really come a long way in 10 years, like this
happened ages ago to me, I wish the school had really taken the measures that you just mentioned,
just even the frank discussions and I mean, like they are teenagers who are suddenly exposed to a
whole new world, in high school, so they're going to make mistakes is going to happen. But it's also
really important for them to understand how to behave ethically, and have really clear cut, like rules, as
you said, and clear cut guidance as to how their behavior impacts another. And teachers can't do this
alone, though. Like no, there's no way teachers can do this alone. I think parents, I don't want to say
parents also have a responsibility, but they do what they need to monitor their children's behavior
online. And I know I'm gonna sound crazy, but there's a third party apps which can do that, like not
invasive, give me all your details. But you need to be aware that your children are on social media, are
online, you need to be monitoring and guiding this and they're prone to make mistakes. But we need to
be there for them as parents and I guess that goes for children who are bullied or who are also the
bully. And I know that the bullies and the people being bullied are hiding this from their parents like I
did. I hid it for ages, many other children do. Yeah, open communication is key.

Beth 13:35
Yeah, I think communication acting as a support system is integral. That's what I needed. And parents
need to be present in the world of digital technology to be able to do that, right.

Nadia 13:47
Yeah, yeah. Some people actually don't even know that you can report specific profiles or posts on
Facebook and Instagram. I think it's important for parents to be aware of these measures. They just
don't have to be expert. I definitely don't call myself a tech expert. But you know, one day one of my

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students was talking about Discord, which is actually designed for online chatting during gaming. So
just talking about how abusive some people are while chatting, especially because they can hide
behind a fake name. And yeah, I went through the discord app. As soon as I got back home, I just, we
need to know these things as a teacher, right. As teachers.

Beth 14:29
Yeah. To be honest, I've never heard of Discord. So it's just one more thing you're adding to a teacher's
plate right.

Nadia 14:37
No it's hard. Do you think that police could have acted differently in your case?

Beth 14:45
I think the police recommended that the school would solve it right. And that was just in my case. But
cyber bullying can now be recorded to the place especially in a society that's like having technologies
ingrained and using social media is ingrained in us. So I now think you can maybe track a bully and
also get bullies arrested. But you can also go to the eSafety Commissioner. That's what I've come
across, again, serious issues. But again, my case was 10 years ago. So what? We're all figuring out
how to use technology then. Yeah. But anyway, I, you mentioned changing identity before. And how I
changed as a person. And I think that was really important. But it's funny now I think about it. I think I've
changed in the way I use technology. Like, I don't know if you're the same. But I think from what I've
experienced, I don't act the same online anymore. I'm really conscious of how I act online. And I'm so
worried about having social media accounts. I'm kind of like a recluse in that one. And I don't, I don't
want my pictures to go anywhere. And I don't, I don't know how I meant to portray myself either and
how I'm meant to act towards others. And I think the bystanders who really liked the posts or shared the
posts really got to me more than anything. I'm super cautious. And I think maybe it's the degree that
you're going into or the profession as a teacher, anyone could understand that, right? But I don't want
to be like, spreading really bad messages or wrong or hurtful messages. And I think I'm censoring
myself. Not from that experience. But I know that, yeah, it can, it can really change you.

Nadia 16:28
Actually I went through something different or not. It's my mom. Um, so she's a fashion designer in her
60s. She wanted me my help with creating an Instagram account for her creations. I think it was last
month, she just called me. She just didn't sound right. You know. And yeah, she mentioned how her
friend, woman who's also in her 60s has gone through online abuse for being a woman of that age.
She's modeling her creations online. Yeah, yeah. This age shaming, sex based abuse. That was, I
think it's really sad to hear this, because these are really confident women in real life but this
unfamiliarity with social media and the insecurity, yeah, based on abuse, that's just placing them in a
disadvantaged position. My mom, just like you was self censoring. And she was just traumatized by
comments that her friend received.

Beth 17:27
It's it. This isn't okay. Like she's the I don't think it's a generation that we grew up in. Clearly it is
because I've experienced this. But yeah.

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Nadia 17:40
I also think that they need programs that teach internet users about dealing with online abuses or just
programs for how to be kind and civil to one another online.

Beth 17:51
Yeah, I think the kind of civil right, like, as a future teacher, I think about this a lot. And maybe one day
parents, you also think about it, it was really scary to, to think about this as a future parent. But you
mentioned the positive behavior, the learning before and discussed the cyber bullying in schools. But
like, what can be done? More? Like, is this enough? Do we need to teach peers how to support other
peers? And are we creating forms of networks that push people to the correct channels to get help?
And maybe, maybe the schools can also include their parents, right? My mom was included, but that
was because she wanted to be included. So informing when we hold these classes, maybe informing
parents, or having parents there and informing them how they could help and letting them know that
your child is in this social world. So it's kind of like removing that age gap. Something that? Yeah yeah

Nadia 18:50
So that's actually a great idea. You know, having parents and teachers, children together. Or maybe
offering something just for parents. Yeah. I was just reading about how cyber bullying doesn't stop at
high school. I wonder how much is happening across the uni.

Beth 19:08
In this is a thing like, does it just happen? Because that's just the society we're in. It's just, it's hard to
know, as adults, it's probably unlikely to be called cyberbullying now, it's we're adults, so it's just
becoming abuse. Right?

Nadia 19:25
Yeah. There was an article about gender based abuse. I think I read it last week while I was looking on
my report, so it said how 1/3 of women on social media have experienced gender based abuse so
yeah, abuse regarding the looks, sex or even how their mother so yeah, so it has made like one quarter
of women reluctant to take a public facing leadership position and using social media to talk about the
important issues that so disempowering

Beth 19:59
that's just the I've no words like, that's horrible, and it's still happening to people outside of high school
is just sad. I can't think of anything else. I think it's something that should have ended at school or
probably never even happened at school and it needs to end once we grow up. Right.

Nadia 20:17
Yeah, clearly now. The scary thing is, I think we haven't even scratched the surface. Yeah, sure. There
are way more similar stories. I guess this poses a broad question, right. Is, is this a problem that we
need to deal with? Or is this just beyond us, and it is now a societal problem?

Beth 20:38

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Hmm. I think it's something that you could definitely end on in your report. Right. Such a it's a it's a
grappling question.

Nadia 20:46
Yes. Yes.

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