World War II Documents and Interrogations

Author(s): Oron J. Hale

Source: Social Science , SPRING 1972, Vol. 47, No. 2 (SPRING 1972), pp. 75-81
Published by: Pi Gamma Mu, International Honor Society in Social Sciences

Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/41963435

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 World War II Documents and
Interrogations
Orón J. Hale
Owing to the nature of World War II in in 1943, his successor Marshall Ba-
Europe - Blitzkrieg by land and aerial bom- doglio sent a Foreign Office represen-
bardment of cities - there was an enormous tative to Lisbon to make secret con-
destruction of government records of all kinds tact with the British authorities. He
- military, ministerial, diplomatic, and admin-carried in a large suitcase a collection
istrative. The Allied military authorities madeof diplomatic documents that the for-
special efforts to collect and preserve theseeign minister thought might be com-
promising
records some of which were stored in Germany, if they should fall into Ger-
man or Allied hands. In Lisbon they
others shipped to Britain and the United
States. American scholars secured the permis- were placed in the embassy safe and
forgotten.
sion and cooperation of the US authorities to In 1945, Colonel Henry
microfilm all important record groups before Cumming, of the University of Vir-
the originals were restituted to Germany. Theginia, chief of intelligence in Naples,
US Department of the Army sent a specialwas told about this collection and the
mission to Germany to interrogate surviving US authorities demanded their return
military and political authorities of the Thirdand surrender. They were microfilmed,
Reich. The documentary collections and thea copy sent to the National Archives
oral history records have provided American in Washington, and the originals re-
scholars, especially graduate students, with turned
a to the Italian government.
large body of primary source materials for 2) The Ciano Diary and the Rose
European history in the National Socialist and Garden Papers. Count Ciano, Italian
World War II periods. foreign minister from 1936-1943, was
married to Mussolini's favorite
daughter, Edda. Everybody knew tha
THEREappears
THERE interest interest in toevents
in events connectedconnected
be a renewedwith
with he kept a detailed diary - he boasted
World War II, attested by a of it and used it as a threat. He also
wave of books and writings in recentkept copies of the most secret diplo-
years: Shirer's Rise and Fall of thematic documents, such as the proto-
Third Reich; Speer's Inside the Third
Reich; The Wartime Journals of Born July 29, 1902; educated in public schools,
Charles A. Lindberg; and so forth. Washington and California; Ph.D., University of
So I am prepared to present myPennsylvania; faculty, University of Virginia since
own modest reminiscences about one 1929; specialty, modern European history with em-
phasis on Central Europe; also, diplomatic and mili-
aspect of World War II. I shall speak
tary history.
first of Italian captured documents,Served Department of the Army General Staff
then Russian and German; and then from 1942 to 1946, grade of colonel.
turn to some experiences in oral his-Books published: Germany and the Diplomatic
tory at the end of the war. Revolution, 1904-1906 (1931), awarded George
Louos Beer Prize by the American Historical As-
Italy sociation; Publicity and Diplomacy; with Special
Reference to England and Germany, 1890-1914
1) The Lisbon Papers. When Mus- (1940); The Captive Press in the Third Reich
solini's government was overthrown (1964); and The Great Illusion , 1900-Í914 (1971).

75

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76 SOCIAL SCIENCE FOR SPRING 1972

waist,
cols of the meetings of the two giving the appearance of ad-
dicta-
tors, Hitler and Mussolini. Inpregnancy
vanced 1943, and pleading that
Ciano participated in the sheconspiracy
was on her way to a clinic. She
that overthrew his father-in-law, contacted AllenbutDulles, the head of
the new regime would have our nothing to
O.S.S. operations in Switzerland,
do with him. He fell into German but could not save Ciano's life; he was
hands and was sent to Munich under shot by order of a special court au-
house arrest. When his father-in-law thorized by his father-in-law. Dulles
escaped from his captors and reached filmed the diaries for the US govern-
German headquarters, Ciano was in ment and arranged for the publication
deep trouble, as a special court had of a substantial part of them. They
been set up to try all those who had appeared in English translation in
1946-
voted against Mussolini in the historic
meeting of the Fascist Grand Council. 3) Mussolini's Private Papers.
Ciano and his wife thought they These documents made many moves
could trade the diaries and the diplo-and journeys but were not taken out-
matic papers in his possession for hisside Italy. Mussolini had a large ar-
release and a safe passage to Spain chive of personal, party, and state
and possibly to Argentina. The Ger- papers. After his overthrow, these
man Gestapo put an agent, Frau Beetz, papers fell into the hands of the succes-
in the house with Ciano, with instruc- sor government, but when Mussolini
tions to get possession of the papers. escaped from his captors he recovered
But she became attached to Ciano and his records. He had some of his most
Edda, and worked with them to save secret files with him when he was cap-
Ciano's life. She got the papers andtured
a and shot by a partisan detach-
further order to translate nearly thement on the shore at Lake Garda. Sub-
whole of the collection into German. sequently, most of H Duce's papers
Fortunately, she made an extra copy came into British and American hands
of the translations for herself ; andand
in were filmed in Rome by a British-
the spring of 1945, when Hitler or- American team, and the originals re-
dered the destruction of all hot rec-stored to the Italian government.
ords and documents, she buried her Large selections from these records
copies in her Rose Garden. The Ital-have been published in F. W. Deakin's
ian originals and the official Germanbook, The Brutal Friendship: Musso-
translations were destroyed. When lini, Hitler, and the Fall of Italian
Frau Beetz was apprehended by the Fascism.
US Counter-intelligence Corps in Ba- 4) Italian Military Records. When
varia, she turned the Rose Garden Badoglio's government announced the
documents over to US authorities. armistice with the Allied Powers, the
Photostats were made and these are German army in Italy was fully alerted
in the National Archives or the His- and it struck quickly. Sixty Italian
tory Division of the Army. divisions were disarmed and most
The diaries, however, were still of
inthe men sent to forced labor in the
Rome, where Edda had hidden them. Reich. A collection center was set up
She thought that if she escaped in toBavaria to which all Italian mili-
Switzerland with the diaries, she tary documents from Rome and from
might be able to bargain for her hus-
the field headquarters were sent for
band's life. She did manage to escape
storage. This center and its holdings
to Switzerland with the seven note- were captured by the US Seventh
book diaries strapped around her Army in the spring of 1945. The ree-

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 WORLD WAR II DOCUMENTS AND INTERROGATIONS 77

ords were sent first to Heidelberg,

constituted a complete provincial ar-
then to Frankfurt, then to Camp
chive covering the period of Soviet
Ritchie, Maryland, thence to therule from 1917 to 1941. Their value?
base-
ment of the Pentagon, and finally tothe only large body of Soviet
This is
the Records Center in Alexandria.
records, unscreened and undoctored,
Italian authorities were apparently
that has come under Western eyes. A
leading student of Soviet affairs,
ignorant of the fate of their military
records. These documents were even-Merle Fainsod of Harvard, was given
access to this collection, which was
tually filmed and the Italian govern-
ment notified of their existence and of the basis of his revealing study -
Anglo-American willingness to return Smolensk Under Soviet Rule. Any
them. At last, in 1967, they were scholar can now get microfilm copies
shipped in over 100 cases to Rome viaof any part or all of this unique collec-
Baltimore ! tion of Soviet records.
One point with regard to these Ital-
ian records: back in Italy they come Germany
under the Continental 50-year rule. In Germany literally tons and
But Italian scholars can come to truckloads of documents were col-
Washington and use the films inlected
the by Allied military forces after
National Archives, or order copies at War II. When the bombing of
World
about seven dollars per reel. There is
German cities began - especially
in the movement and preservation of - a general movement of rec-
Berlin
these records a parallel with theords
fall and archives was ordered.
of Constantinople to the Ottoman These papers were stored in castles,
Turks and the movement of scholars caves, and mines. Much survived de-
and records from Byzantium to the spite Hitler's order to destroy all se-
West where they were preserved and cret and confidential files. Thè high-
treasured. level material discovered and col-
Russia
lected was divided among the French,
British, and US governments. By
The Smolensk Archive. Another agreement the British took the naval
documentary windfall for the histo- records ; and the Foreign Ministry ar-
rian and the social scientist came with
chives, after being moved from Mar-
the capture of what is now called the burg to Berlin, were sent to Whaddon
Smolensk Archive. When Hitler in- Hall near Oxford. The US took the
vaded Russia in June 1941, the ad-
German military archives, the Nazi
vance into the western provinces was Party records, and the records of
so rapid that local authorities did not
those ministries and departments not
always have time to destroy or re- needed in setting up the agencies of
move their records. Thus, the entire military government. Some of these
archive of the provincial government documents were used in the Nurem-
of Smolensk, and the records of theberg trials and as a result were made
Communist Party in the province, accessible to scholars. The tripartite
were captured intact and removed to governments undertook publication of
Germany. There at the end of the warselected Foreign Ministry records -
they were seized along with German Documents on German Foreign Pol-
records and transported to the Unitedicy. 1918-1945, a multivolumed series
States, finally coming to rest in the
which has not been completed. Some
Alexandria depository. When sepa-
of the records sent to the US went to
rated from German documents, they
Maxwell Field, Alabama, some to the

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78 SOCIAL SCIENCE FOB SPRING 1972

government
Library of Congress, and some of the Federal Republic.
to the
The possibility
Hoover Library at Stanford, but thethat historical mate-
greater part went to the rial of great
World War value would soon be
II Records Center at Alexandria. In taken from this country without hav-
this depository alone were over 15,000ing been explored by American re-
linear feet of records (three shelf searchers caused a flurry in historical
circles. An American Committee on
miles in all), unsorted, unscreened,
War Documents was quickly orga-
but all held under a general classifica-
tion of "confidential" and therefore nized and a year later it became a
not available to scholars. After 10 committee of the American Historical
years - in 1955 - the question of ac- Association. It had two principal ob-
cess and disposition of these materi- jectives: to secure declassification of
als could no longer be ignored. the records at Alexandria; and to
Before continuing on this linescreen
I and microfilm these records be-
want to switch back to the summer fore
of they were returned to Germany.
1945. At that time there was much A grant from the Ford Foundation fa-
cilitated the screening and microfilm-
speculation about one missing set of
ing in the Records Center at Alexan-
records - the Nazi Party membership
lists. How could one be sure who was dria in the summer of 1956. Further
and who was not a party member grants from Old Dominion, Lilly, and
without the membership files? They Avalon foundations, and a final grant
were not in the Party Headquarters in from Ford, led to the completion of the
Munich and the gossip was that they task by 1961. Besides the Alexandria
had been destroyed. Then one day - in materials, we filmed a substantial
the fall of 1945 - word came that sev- block of Foreign Ministry records at
eral bales of party records had been Whaddon Hall and a number of rec-
found in a paper mill not far from ord groups in the Berlin Documents
Munich. They were to be pulped when Center. About the time we started
the mill resumed operations. Upon ex- filming at Alexandria, I became chair-
amination they were found to be the man of the committee, and my great-
missing membership lists, complete est concern for the next five years was
and undamaged. No one could now that we would not have the funds to
conceal his membership in, and his maintain the staff and complete the
service to, Hitler's party. These files work. I got to know a great deal about
became a part of the holdings of the American foundations as a result of
Berlin Documents Center, where all this experience.
kinds of biographical data - Brown As we filmed selected record
Shirts, Black Shirts, Hitler Youth, groups, the negative film was depo
party officials, and so forth- were ited in the National Archives, guid
concentrated for purposes of checking were prepared, and anyone could bu
and screening all German employees complete groups or single reels fro
and persons seeking to participate in the National Archives. As the work
the rehabilitation of the country. Ev- was completed, the original records
eryone who holds or seeks an office, were boxed, and at periodic intervals
worki for the state or federal govern- shipments were made to Germany
ment or serves in the German officers where the materials were accessioned
corps, is checked in the records of this in the Federal Archives in Coblenz.
center. One of the conditions of restitution
In 1954 the rumor circulated that allwas a commitment on the part of the
of the German records held in the US German government to keep these rec-
and Britain were to be returned to the cords freely open to scholars on the

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 WORLD WAR H DOCUMENTS AND INTERROGATIONS 79

same terms that access was given

dustrial leaders to Frankfurt. As the
when the records were in US posses-
persons in category I were captured,
sion. This undertaking seems tosurrendered
have or arrested, they were
sent
been, and is being, scrupulously to Mondorf and housed in a sec-
ob-
served. , ond class resort hotel. This was en-
Altogether we microfilmed atclosed Alex- in a stockade, with guard tow-
andria, Whaddon Hall, and Berlin ers and electrified fences, camou-
over 12,000,000 document pages, cov-and seemingly a part of a regu-
flaged,
ering a wide variety of subjects, lar prisoner of war enclosure. No one
agen-
cies, and individuals. Among the rec-
knew who was in the hotel except the
ord groups^ filmed I might mention prison officers
: and the interrogation
all the surviving papers of Hitler,staff. No modest hotel ever had such a
the
records of his physician and persons
high-ranking, if not exactly distin-
guished,
in his immediate circle ; the papers of guest list as this establish-
Heinrich Himmler, chief of the Ge-in Mondorf. Hermann Goering,
ment
stapo, the SS, and the German police ;
No. 2 man in the Nazi Party and com-
the papers of the Reich minister for in chief of the German Air
mander
Armaments and War Production Force,; rec- was at the top of the pecking
ords of the Armed Forces Highorder. Com-The guest list also included Ad-
mand and subordinate commands - miral Dönitz, commander in chief of
Army, Navy, Air Force; the records the German Navy and last chief of
state after Hitler's suicide, and the
of the early history of the Nazi Party
and its supporters; records of orga-
former Navy chief, Raeder. The Army
nizations sponsored by the party ; was
and represented by Field Marshal
the records of some German business Keitel and General Jodl; the diplo-
and industrial firms associated with matic establishment by the Foreign
the movement. Minister Bibbentrop and the notori-
ous ambassador Franz von Papen ;
Interrogations
and the cabinet by Schwerin von Kro-
I do not know how many German sigk, minister of finance, and Wilhelm
prisoners of war were in British- Frick, minister of the interior. On the
American hands at the end of hostili- party side there was the theoretician
ties, but we processed them according Rosenberg, author of the book The
to the Geneva Convention and they Myth of the Twentieth Century (Ro-
were home, if they had a home, by senberg is the only historian I know
Christmas. Our interest focused on who was ever hanged for writing a
the highest level military and politicalbad book) ; Streicher, the Jew-baiter
leaders. A war crimes trial of Axis from Nuremberg, and a thoroughly
leaders had been promised by Allied loathsome creature ; Seyss-Inquart,
chiefs of state, although the Interna- chief of the occupation regime in Hol-
tional Military Tribunal had not yet land ; Party Treasurer Schwartz ;
been established. Anticipating the Hans Lammers, chief of Hitler's Sec-
kind of action that would be taken,retariat; and Dr. Ley, head öf the
special detention centers for the high- Nazi Labor Front, who committed sui-
est ranking persons - those in arrest cide at Nuremberg. A very unwilling
category I - were set up : one at Mon- guest, but not charged with war
dorf south of Luxemburg City, under crimes, was Admiral Hörthy, regent
the code name "Ashcan" ; and a second of Hungary. Speer was in Dustbin, in
at Frankfurt, called "Dustbin." The Frankfurt, and Rudolf Hess, Hitler's
political and military chieftains were deputy, who flew to England on a va'in
sent to Mondorf, the economic and in- peace mission in the spring of 1941,

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80 SOCIAL SCIENCE FOE SPRING 1972

cers a
was kept in England until from the Theater
few daysHistorical staff.
before the trial started atOne was Captain Kenneth Hechler,
Nuremberg.
No American, to my knowledge,
now a congressman had from West Vir-
an opportunity to interrogate
ginia. Hess
without a British officer The three weeks
being we spent at Mon-
pres-
ent. Other special detention
dorf were centers
most interesting. In dealing
near Frankfurt, Munich, withHeidelberg,
the German prisoners, we were
and Berlin held civilian required
and to military
use cover names, although
figures of considerable the war was over.and
interest Therefore, follow-
importance. ing the biblical injunction, "Ye must
My personal connection be with
born again,"
these I became Colonel
Hamilton instead
now unemployed gentlemen began of Colonel ,Hale.
with a temporary duty assignment
The guests in this hotel were surpris-
from the Pentagon to aingly
special com-and thankful to be
cooperative,
mittee, appointed by thein secretary Anglo- Americanof hands rather than
the Army, Judge Patterson, Russian. toTheir
go topsychological atti-
Germany and interrogate tudessurviving
were interesting to observe.
leaders of the Third Reich. From They were either convinced Nazis, or
else had been well brainwashed. Then
these high level participants we hoped
to learn how strategic decisionsthewithwhole structure came crashing
down
regard to the war were taken ; how theupon them. Many had not admit-
German war economy was organized ted to themselves that the war was
and how it had functioned; andtakinghow a disastrous course for Ger-
occupied territories were governed.
many. Here they were, not knowing
More specifically, we wanted tothe fate of their families, or what the
know
future held for them, sitting in an en-
how and why and under what circum-
stances Hitler decided to go to war
emyin detention camp, probably facing
trial as war criminals. Some were al-
September 1939 ; why he decided
against a cross-Channel invasion
ready ofbusy writing their memoirs; all
Britain after the defeat of France and were eager to tell you who was damned
the occupation of Belgium and Hol- and who was saved and their version of
land; why he attacked Russia in June how it all happened.
1941 - the most fateful of all his deci- Since there was no longer a German
sions ; and why he declared war on thegovernment, an official leader, or even
United States immediately after an army, all felt absolved of any oath
Pearl Harbor- an equally fateful de- they had taken as officers or officials,
cision. On the military side we had and therefore talked freely about mat-
many questions about decisions taken ters that shortly before had been clas-
at Hitler's headquarters with regard sified top secret. There was one excep-
to operations in the several theaters tion - knowing that they were likely
in Europe and North Africa. candidates for the impending war
Our committee, headed by Dr. crimes trials, when we touched on any
George Shuster, president of Huntermatter that personally affected them
College and a specialist in German af- or their past actions, they remained
fairs, was composed of six members : silent.
two economists, a political scientist, Altogether there were about 40 per-
and two officers from the War Depart-sons at Mondorf. I worked with about
ment, one a historian in civil life, thehalf of them and formed some opinion
other a specialist in industry and of their capacities and capabilities.
finance. We also had two junior offi- Frankly, considering the high posi-

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 WORLD WAE n DOCUMENTS AND INTERROGATIONS 81

tions they had held, I was not army

deeplyleaders he used another argu-
impressed by their intelligence. ment; to the party leaders still an-
Sometimes I would look out of my other.
office window and observe a group Early in August the center at Mon-
sunning themselves on the grass - not dorf was dissolved. The International
more than one or two first rate minds Tribunal had been activated at Nu-
in the entire lot, and they were likelyremberg and the prosecutors had
to be technicians. How could such a made their selection of those to be
group have dominated a great nationtried in the first round. These were
transported to the prison in the old
like the German, led it into such folly,
and now stand at the grave of itsJustice
na- Building in Nuremberg and
tional existence? I could only conclude
the rejects were dispersed to other de-
that the one who energized themtention
all centers. Our group pursued its
was missing - Adolf Hitler. exercise in oral history in these cen-
The most interesting figure was ters until the members returned to the
Goering - the least productive of US in September. I remained in the
ideas and information was the For- theater on temporary duty until De-
eign Minister Ribbentrop. The most cember, concerned with the military
tiresome person was the Jew-baiter history program that we were setting
Streicher. Least impressive among
up.
the high-ranking military was Keitel, Now, as to the value of the records
and interrogation programs, there is
Hitler's chief of staff ; most intelligent
and responsive were some of the sub- no doubt about their importance: the
ordinate officers and officials that we
interrogation reports of our commit-
worked with in other detention cen- tee, and those I made personally, have
ters- Speer and Schacht ; General been used by a number of graduate
Heusinger, chief of operations on thestudents; the microfilmed documents
Eastern Front; Warlimont, deputyhave been even more valuable. Many
chief of the Operations Staff at Hit- doctoral dissertations have been
ler's headquarters; and Drs. Morell drawn from these collections in the
and Brandt, Hitler's physicians. Hit- National Archives ; and a great many
ler, incidentally, was a physical wreck books, such as Shirer's Rise and Fall
and heavily drugged most of the timeof the Third Reich, have been heavily
after the attempted assassination of based upon material from the cap-
July 20, 1944. And yet he continued to tured records. I used these sources, in
make the decisions and call the plays. part, for my book on the Captive
From Hitler's associates we formed Press in the Third Reich. And I have
a good picture of his style in decision had seven graduate students who
making. A number of the military men wrote dissertations based largely on
commented on his willingness some- these materials. This I could not fore-
times to take great risks, and at oth- see or even imagine as I worked with
ers to be hesitant and cautious - to the captured documents and prisoner in-
point of missing favorable opportuni- terrogations in 1945. There is an old
ties. In this connection, how he justi- German saying that is applicable
fied his decision to attack Russia in here: "What he weaves no weaver
June 1941 is revealing. To his civilian knows" ("Was er webt weiss hein
ministers he gave one reason; to hisWeber").

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