In The News

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WP:ITN/C
This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the
news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for
discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section
on the Main Page�please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of
past nominations can be found here.
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events.
Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events
items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed
by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.
A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for
the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2,
etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers
check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable
sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be
linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that
remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths"
line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some
cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this
is decided by consensus.
Contents
1 How to nominate an item
2 Headers
3 Voicing an opinion on an item
3.1 Please do...
3.2 Please do not...
4 Suggesting updates
5 Archives
6 November 26
6.1 RD: Doddie Weir
6.2 RD: Vladimir Makei
6.3 (Posted) RD: Jorge Medina
7 November 25
7.1 RD: Irene Cara
7.2 RD: Ismail Tara
8 November 24
8.1 (Posted) RD: Hans Magnus Enzensberger
8.2 (Posted) RD: B�rje Salming
8.3 (Duplicate) 2022 Malaysian general election
9 November 23
9.1 (Posted) RD: O'dell Owens
9.2 RD: Betty Ray McCain
9.3 (Closed) 2022 FIFA World Cup Group E
9.4 (Closed) 2022 Chesapeake shooting
9.5 (Closed) 2022 D�zce earthquake
10 November 22
10.1 RD: Frances Campbell-Preston
10.2 (Closed) Helicopter crash in Charlotte NC
10.3 (Posted) RD: Cecilia Suyat Marshall
10.4 (Posted) RD: John Y. Brown Jr.
11 November 21
11.1 (Posted) RD: Michael Hampe
11.2 (Posted) RD: Wilko Johnson
11.3 (closed) Saudi Arabia beat Argentina
11.4 2022 Anyang factory fire
11.5 (Posted) RD: Jeremy Lloyds
11.6 (Posted) Earthquake in Java
11.7 (Closed) Sebastian Vettel retirement from Formula One
11.8 2022 Kazakh presidential election
12 November 20
12.1 (Posted) RD: Mickey Kuhn
12.2 (Posted) 109th Grey Cup
12.3 RD: Jason David Frank
12.4 (Posted) RD: Hebe de Bonafini
12.5 RD: Greg Bear
12.6 (Closed) FIFA World Cup opening ceremony
12.7 2022 United Nations Climate Change Conference
12.8 (Posted) Ongoing: FIFA World Cup
12.9 (Closed) 2022 Colorado Springs shooting
13 November 19
13.1 RD: Tuan Tuan
13.2 2021 Rugby League World Cup (delayed to 2022)
13.3 RD: Tariq Teddy
13.4 (Posted) 2022 Malaysian general election
14 References
Anwar Ibrahim in 2019
Anwar Ibrahim
Anwar Ibrahim (pictured) of the Pakatan Harapan coalition becomes Prime Minister of
Malaysia after the general election produces the nation's first hung parliament.
An earthquake centred near Cianjur in Indonesia's West Java kills at least 310
people and injures more than 2,000 others.
In Canadian football, the Toronto Argonauts defeat the Winnipeg Blue Bombers in the
Grey Cup.
NASA's Artemis 1 is successfully launched on an uncrewed test flight to the Moon.
The United Nations estimates the world population to have exceeded eight billion.
Ongoing: FIFA World CupMahsa Amini protestsRussian invasion of Ukraine
Recent deaths: O'dell OwensJorge MedinaB�rje SalmingWilko JohnsonHans Magnus
EnzensbergerMichael Hampe
Nominate an article
view � page history � related changes
How to nominate an item

In order to suggest a candidate:
Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent
developments, or find an article that has already been updated.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated).
Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight
UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process.
Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the
date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4
header (====) when doing so.
Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to
the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable,
reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb
should be written in simple present tense.
Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of
posting.
Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN
note}} to the corresponding article's talk page.
Purge this page to update the cache
There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular
item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and
the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN.
Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be
placed onto the live template.
Headers
Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with
(Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer
active.
Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there
seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge
the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you
don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the
header.
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for
your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the
article, and whether it has been updated.
Please do...
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility
runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive,
unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. Maybe the
previous reviewer has missed a problem, or an identified problem has now been
fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes may also help administrators identify
items that are ready for promotion to the ITN template on MainPage.
Point out problematic areas in the nominated article and, if appropriate, suggest
how to fix them. If you know exactly what to do, by all means, go ahead and fix it
as you see fit.
Please do not...
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly,
curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead,
explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion
criteria so a consensus can be reached.
Oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country, or
failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post
and is generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias
(such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items
criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page.
Use the discussion section of an item as a forum for your own political or personal
beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome of a nomination and are
potentially disruptive.
Suggesting updates
A posted ITNC item that needs correcting can be addressed in two ways:
For simple updates, such as updated death tolls in a disaster, linking issues,
spelling or grammar corrections, or otherwise anything that does not change the
intent of the blurb should be discussed at WP:ERRORS in the ITN section.
For more complex updates that involve a major change in the blurb's intent, that
should be discussed as part of the current ITNC nomination.
Skip to topSkip to bottom
Archives
Discussions of items older than seven days are automatically archived
November 26
Portal:Current events/2022 November 26
RD: Doddie Weir

Article: Doddie Weir (talk � history � tag)
Recent deaths nomination
News source(s): [1]
Credits: Nominated by Haris920 (talk � give credit)
Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always
presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion).
Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Rugby player Haris920 (talk) 20:42, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
RD: Vladimir Makei

Article: Vladimir Makei (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits: Nominated by Mr. Lechkar (talk � give credit)Updated by Yoshi876 (talk �
give credit), Skj�lker (talk � give credit), Artegia (talk � give credit) and KPX8
(talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Foreign minister of Belarus since 2012 Mr. Lechkar (talk)
15:02, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose The end of the biography section is a bit sparse on context. Also, there's a
{{cn}} tag on his birthplace. Having said that, more than happy to change to
support if those are addressed. TartarTorte 15:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Unexpected death and good article quality. --NoonIcarus (talk) 21:16, 26
November 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Jorge Medina
Article: Jorge Medina (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): P�gina Siete
Credits: Updated and nominated by Krisgabwoosh (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Notable civil rights activist Krisgabwoosh (talk) 00:54, 26
November 2022 (UTC)
Support - Looks sourced and ready.BabbaQ (talk) 08:08, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Looks good. --Vacant0 (talk) 15:01, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Article looks great. TartarTorte 15:28, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, Article is fine. Alex-h (talk) 17:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Posted to RD. SpencerT�C 19:47, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
November 25
RD: Irene Cara
Article: Irene Cara (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): [2]
Credits: Nominated by Thryduulf (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Lots of citations needed, I'm busy all day so can't really
help fix Awkward42 (talk) [the alternate account of Thryduulf (talk)] 11:23, 26
November 2022 (UTC)
Support: The article isn't fantastic right now, but the coverage of her death
offers an opportunity for new cites to be added.--?IanMacM? (talk to me) 14:54, 26
November 2022 (UTC)
Support Notable artist. Posting an RD seems appropriate here. Urbanracer34 (talk)
17:22, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Notability isn't assessed here, every notable person can be posted if the article
is up to standard. All sentences and facts and filmography need to be referenced.
Kirill C1 (talk) 18:34, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
RD: Ismail Tara
Article: Ismail Tara (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): [3]
Credits: Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk � give credit)
Ainty Painty (talk) 10:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment: Needs considerable prose expansion and refs. SpencerT�C 19:49, 26 November
2022 (UTC)
November 24
(Posted) RD: Hans Magnus Enzensberger
Article: Hans Magnus Enzensberger (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Der Spiegel
Credits: Updated and nominated by Grimes2 (talk � give credit)Updated by Gerda
Arendt (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: German author and poet Grimes2 (talk) 12:10, 25 November 2022
(UTC)
Support. One of the key German intellectuals of the 20th century. The article looks
OK to me. /Julle (talk) 13:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. One of the main thinkers in Germany, along with Alexander Kluge and J�rgen
Habermas. -- ElLutzo (talk) 16:50, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Lead needs an expanded summary.�Bagumba (talk) 18:35, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Done Grimes2 (talk) 19:02, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Struck.�Bagumba (talk) 00:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Support - German intellectual, one of the key ones in his country.BabbaQ (talk)
18:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
I added a bit but he deserves more. I'm too tired right now to do more, - past
midnight here. Please look at Hampe below who died almost a week earlier. --Gerda
Arendt (talk) 23:30, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Posted�Bagumba (talk) 10:18, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: B�rje Salming
Article: B�rje Salming (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): NHL, CTV
Credits: Nominated by BabbaQ (talk � give credit)
--BabbaQ (talk) 18:26, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, one of the greats in ice hockey and the article looks fine. cart-Talk
12:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. Perhaps the most famous Swedish ice hockey player of all time, and had a
tremendous impact on the sport as he paved the way for more European players in the
NHL. /Julle (talk) 13:21, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose B�rje_Salming#International needs sourcing.�Bagumba (talk) 14:18, 25
November 2022 (UTC)
Done.BabbaQ (talk) 15:02, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
That's a shockingly fast decline from his public appearances two weeks ago.
Unfortunately, I've had to orange-level tag three sections (one, the list of
awards, was subsequently deleted), and there are several {{cn}} tags throughout the
article. Modest Genius talk 15:17, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Agreed. And fixed.BabbaQ (talk) 16:13, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
I see that the national team text was moved, but its coverage remains sparse.
�Bagumba (talk) 17:07, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
I've undone that move - club and international play are fundamentally different so
shouldn't be merged. Looks like an attempt to get around the orange tag without
actually improving the article. Modest Genius talk 17:29, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Having a section with a few sentences are weird in my opinion. Someone might be
able to expand.BabbaQ (talk) 17:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
I have some sources that should help with that. I can add to it in a few hours from
now. Kaiser matias (talk) 21:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Have expanded it, but will leave for others to determine if the tag should remain.
Kaiser matias (talk) 01:19, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. Also added one source. BabbaQ (talk) 08:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Struck my oppose above.�Bagumba (talk) 01:26, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment The death place in the infobox is unsourced, and not mentioned in the body.
The death date is wrtten as 24 November, but the cited sources only say his death
was announced on that date, not explicitly mentioning when he died. Is there
anything more definitive?�Bagumba (talk) 10:06, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
I fixed a sourced that states he died at his home in Nacka. But good call to see
that.BabbaQ (talk) 10:14, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
And that source also confirms he died on Thursday (24th).�Bagumba (talk) 15:30, 26
November 2022 (UTC)
(Duplicate) 2022 Malaysian general election
Duplicate nomination. Refer to the still open nom on November 19
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments
should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made
to this discussion.
Proposed image
Article: No article specified
Blurb: ?After the 2022 Malaysian general election produces a hung parliament, Anwar
Ibrahim (pictured) is appointed as the Prime Minister of Malaysia.
News source(s): Reuters, AP
Credits: Nominated by Starship.paint (talk � give credit)Created by Pizza1016 (talk
� give credit)Updated by WEEROR (talk � give credit), Sumberjaya2014 (talk � give
credit), Comeback Uvuvwue (talk � give credit), NgKQ (talk � give credit) and
Loqmanizzat (talk � give credit)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be
important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the
article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Election was five days ago, but there were difficulties in
forming a coalition for a majority in Parliament to appoint a Prime Minister, and
this appointment has just been made today. starship.paint (exalt) 07:09, 24
November 2022 (UTC)
Refer original nomination on 19th November. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 08:45, 24
November 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should
be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this
discussion.
November 23
(Posted) RD: O'dell Owens
Article: O'dell Owens (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Cincinnati Enquirer
Credits: Nominated by Dumelow (talk � give credit)Updated by Hilesba (talk � give
credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: American medical doctor - Dumelow (talk) 07:59, 26 November
2022 (UTC)
Long enough with 850+ words of prose. Formatting looks fine. Footnotes can be found
in expected spots. Earwig has no complaints at all. This wikibio looks READY for RD
to me. --PFHLai (talk) 16:40, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Posted to RD. SpencerT�C 19:49, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
RD: Betty Ray McCain
Article: Betty Ray McCain (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): [4]
Credits: Nominated by Muboshgu (talk � give credit)Updated by Indy beetle (talk �
give credit)
� Muboshgu (talk) 15:20, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. Article looks in good shape. Skynxnex (talk) 19:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support - Sourced and ready.--BabbaQ (talk) 09:16, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Footnote #2 to
https://www.sms.edu/uploaded/images/about/Press_Kits/Notable_Saint_Mary's_Alumnae.p
df is referenced almost 30 times, but the source only says Betty Ray McCain � Saint
Mary�s Class of 1950 junior college - former N.C. Secretary of Cultural Resources;
first female chair of the N.C. Democratic Party. Something is awry with this one
source (at least).�Bagumba (talk) 10:14, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) 2022 FIFA World Cup Group E
Topic is currently at ongoing. There is no realistic chance of consensus forming to
post results of an individual match. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:37, 24 November 2022
(UTC)}
to this discussion.
Article: 2022 FIFA World Cup Group E (talk � history � tag)

Blurb: ?Spain wins 7-0 against Costa Rica in a football match in the 2022 FIFA
World Cup marking the biggest win of a team since the 2010 FIFA World Cup.
News source(s): [5]
Credits: Created by Oddballslover (talk � give credit)Updated by Oddballslover
(talk � give credit)
Strong oppose, recommend SNOW close We do not post intermediate results of an
ongoing competition. --Masem (t) 00:35, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
discussion.
(Closed) 2022 Chesapeake shooting
Good faith nomination, but I'm closing this somewhat out of a sense of mercy. Given
this lacks the extenuating circumstances of the Colorado Springs shooting which
wasn't even posted, prolonged discussion will likely not be beneficial nor
productive.--??WaltCip-(talk) 13:36, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
to this discussion.
Article: 2022 Chesapeake shooting (talk � history � tag)

Blurb: ?A shooting at Walmart leaves 7 dead and 5 injured.
News source(s): CNN
Credits: Nominated by Interstellarity (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Significant shooting. Article needs work, but will support
once ready. Interstellarity (talk) 11:48, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Mass shootings are common in the US. We can only post the most severe ones.
NoahTalk 12:13, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment In order to make the item more accessible to all readers, the blurb should
mention the country where this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 12:14, 23
November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose something like the 606th mass shooting in the US this year alone, not even a
precedent for a shooting in a Walmart. Tragic but not in any way unusual. The
Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose - so common now, in fact, that we had a nomination for a shooting just the
other day. These are always tragic items, but until there are very few mass
shootings in the US, these won't become postable. Lee Vilenski (talk � contribs)
13:20, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Comment - The circumstances of this particular case might be
interesting to some; it came less than a week after the Colorado Springs
shooting.--??WaltCip-(talk) 13:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Again, oppose routine in USA. That�s exhausting. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:24, 23 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose although if this makes Walmart reconsider its gun sales, that news should
probably be ITN. If this gets posted, any blurb should include that (by all
reports) it was a Walmart employee, not some random person who wandered in. Only in
death does duty end (talk) 13:27, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
discussion.
(Closed) 2022 D�zce earthquake
Consensus to post this will not develop. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:29, 24
November 2022 (UTC) (non-admin closure)
to this discussion.
Article: 2022 D�zce earthquake (talk � history � tag)

Blurb: ?A magnitude 6.1 earthquake in D�zce, Turkey injures more than 50 people.
News source(s): Retures, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg, Independent
Credits: Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk � give credit)Updated by Dora the Axe-
plorer (talk � give credit) and Quake1234 (talk � give credit)
Oppose Earthquakes can be damaging and fork up a few casualties but not all are
suitable for ITN. This event pales in comparison to the one in Indonesdia�casualty
numbers are minimal. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore) 10:11, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. Per Dora the Axe-plorer. Good faith nomination but unless there are many
deaths I don�t see the need to post to ITN. Let�s just say that compared to this we
have bigger fishes to fry. SBS6577P (talk) 10:55, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose per above. _-_Alsor (talk) 13:28, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. I agree with all the comments above; not all earthquakes need to be
blurbed, especially those that are "relatively" minor like this one. RIP to the 2
fatalities though. Vida0007 (talk) 19:19, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
discussion.
November 22
RD: Frances Campbell-Preston
Article: Frances Campbell-Preston (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): The Times
Credits: Nominated by Thriley (talk � give credit)Updated by Baldwin de Toeni (talk
� give credit)
Thriley (talk) 16:04, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support new article and seems well-sourced enough. Skynxnex (talk) 19:48, 25
November 2022 (UTC)
This wikibio currently has only 236 words of prose. It's a tad stubby. Is there
anything more to write about her? What did she do while she was a lady-in-waiting?
Any more on her publications? Well received? --PFHLai (talk) 14:27, 26 November
2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Helicopter crash in Charlotte NC
Thanks for the nomination, but this will not get consensus to post. 331dot (talk)
09:26, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
to this discussion.
Article: WBTV#2022_helicopter_crash (talk � history � tag)

Blurb: ?A 1999 Robinson R44 helicopter nicknamed Sky3 crashes into the embankment
of Interstate 77 in Charlotte, North Carolina, killing two WBTV station employees.
Alternative blurb: ?The FAA and NTSB launch an investigation into the fatal crash
of Sky3, 1999 Robinson R44 helicopter belonging to the WBTV news station.
News source(s): [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]
Credits: Updated and nominated by EEBuchanan (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: First time I've ever done this. Not sure if this is how you
do it. But we just had a helicopter crash close one of our major interstates during
holiday traffic and two news station employees died. No one knows why it came down,
witnesses just say it was in trouble. Because it was 2 news station employees
killed this is all over the news right now - CNN, New York Times, Associate Press,
you name it. User:EEBuchanan 03:51, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
EEBuchanan Thank you for the nomination; I have reformatted it. Please propose a
proposed "blurb" to post in the space to the right of "blurb =" in the above
template, and include a link to a reliable source next to "sources =". For
additional information and fields, see Template:ITN candidate. Best, SpencerT�C
03:53, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Spencer Realized I messed it up as soon as I hit publish. Trying to fix but there
keep being conflicting edits. I am adding my references now. EEBuchanan (talk)
04:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose - I don't see that a small helicopter crash with such a low death toll is
notable. And I see no coverage about this except locally. In recent months, we are
averaging at least a helicopter crash a day, and I've never seen one ITN before.
Nfitz (talk) 04:35, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Nfitz You may be right. Still, It's on CNN, New York Times, Associated Press, and
some others I haven't had time to link yet. That's not exactly local. The thing is
less the crash and more the fact the news company employees involved, that's why
people are interested. A crash is one thing. A helicopter crashing and killing two
news employees, and their colleagues having to report it on air on their own
station, is a bit different/out of the ordinary. Plus a lot of interviewed
witnesses are saying the pilot deliberately steered into the embankment, possibly
to avoid traffic and nearby buildings - that also seems a bit unusual. EEBuchanan
(talk) 04:37, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
How is not local to only one country? And surely most of the other, daily,
helicopter crashes are more notable, given the circumstances under which they
happen. What is internationally notable here? Nfitz (talk) 05:12, 23 November 2022
(UTC)
Nfitz Fair enough. As mentioned never done this before so wasn't sure how it
worked. Thanks!
EEBuchanan (talk) 05:17, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Not quite a commercial passenger aircraft crash, it still involved a crash
while people aboard the flight were doing their jobs akin to military disasters,
and thus not stuff we cover. Even without that, this is a very minor event, and
just because it is getting a burst of coverage now does not make it a long-term
encyclopedic topic; its of very narrow scope. --Masem (t) 05:12, 23 November 2022
(UTC)
MasemFair enough. Like I said before, never done this before (nominated one recent
death but no ITN before unless it was a long time ago and I forgot) so I wasn't
sure if it would go or not. Figured it couldn't hurt to ask.
EEBuchanan (talk) 05:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose -- this does not at all reach the bar for ITN. A good faith nomination
nonetheless. --RockstoneSend me a message! 08:31, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose minor accident albeit with sad consequences. Not going to make the top 5000
news stories around the globe for 2022 though. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the
mask...) 09:23, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
discussion.
(Posted) RD: Cecilia Suyat Marshall
Article: Cecilia Suyat Marshall (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): [6]
Credits: Nominated by Muboshgu (talk � give credit)Updated by Skynxnex (talk � give
credit)
� Muboshgu (talk) 00:05, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Sufficient quality. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:39, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, Article is fine. Alex-h (talk) 17:22, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: John Y. Brown Jr.
Article: John Y. Brown Jr. (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): WKYT
Credits: Nominated by Dumelow (talk � give credit)Updated by Jweaver492 (talk �
give credit) and C.Fred (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: American politician, a Good Article - Dumelow (talk) 20:34,
22 November 2022 (UTC)
Support - Article looks good.CoatCheck (talk) 04:05, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, Article has enough information Alex-h (talk) 17:19, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
November 21
(Posted) RD: Michael Hampe
Article: Michael Hampe (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): WDR
Credits: Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk � give credit)Created by Monna
Ry (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: German stage director in drama and even more opera, 20 years
general manager of the Cologne Opera, and on the important stages of the world.
After Germen reunification he founded a festival in Dresden. Detailed article
created last year. - Back then I cut out everything not sourced (which was much).
So now there were basically just tenses to change. Obits we have are short, but
there may be more. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Another obit added. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Will we manage do deal with this anytime soon, or should I move him to 21 Nov when
the obits first appeared? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Some hours later: same question. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:22, 25 November 2022
(UTC)
Comment "Television, DVD and video productions" isn't sourced. Better comment out?
Grimes2 (talk) 17:38, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
It was commented out. Someone opened it. Sigh. Will comment out again. --Gerda
Arendt (talk) 19:30, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Article seems to be OK now. Grimes2 (talk) 19:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. At that point, I moved the entry from 18 Nov - day of death - to 21 Nov
when the first obits came. He should not get ignored because of days passing before
his death became known. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 04:37, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, - I was getting nervous ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:12, 26 November 2022
(UTC)
(Posted) RD: Wilko Johnson
Article: Wilko Johnson (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Sky News, THR
Credits: Nominated by Sunshineisles2 (talk � give credit)Updated by MIDI (talk �
give credit), Black Kite (talk � give credit) and 205.239.40.3 (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: More sources needed. Looks good now. Sunshineisles2 (talk)
18:06, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment There is one spot in prose that has a cn tag and discography is mostly
unsourced. I don't want to !oppose, as 95% of the article is fine, but the
discography needs to be sourced. Curbon7 (talk) 03:28, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Cites fixed - marked Ready. Black Kite (talk) 13:25, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Unsourced birth name and birth date. Also unsourced that he changed his
legal name to "Wilko Johnson".�Bagumba (talk) 00:11, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
@Bagumba Found and added a citation for his birth date and name. Sunshineisles2
@Sunshineisles2: Thanks. I don't have access to that source. If "Wilko Johnson" is
only his stage name and was not changed to his legal name, it should not show
"born" in the lead sentence per MOS:FULLNAME and MOS:BIRTHNAME. �Bagumba (talk)
09:39, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Fixed, and marked ready again. Black Kite (talk) 10:17, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
The phrasing the article uses is that he "[changed] his stage name to Wilko
Johnson" in 1972, which to me infers that he didn't change his legal name. Though
it's also possible he might have later, but the source doesn't confirm that.
Sunshineisles2 (talk) 14:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
(closed) Saudi Arabia beat Argentina
WP:SNOW
the weather outside is frightful, but the fire is so delightful... --Jayron32
14:08, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
to this discussion.
Article: 2022 FIFA World Cup Group C (talk � history � tag)

Blurb: ?Saud Arabia defeat Argentina 2-1 in one of the biggest upsets in FIFA World
Cup's history.
News source(s): BBC
Credits: Nominated by Stop racism immediately (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: A shocking result that re-writes football history and defies
all expectations favouring Argentina before the tournament. --Stop racism
immediately (talk) 13:07, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose and suggest SNOW close. Every World Cup has upsets, and this one is no
different. YD407OTZ (talk) 13:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
As we have the ongoing, there is no need to post any individual game result,
regardless of how "shocking" the result may have been. Masem (t) 13:12, 22 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose and snow close per YD407OTZ and Masem. BilledMammal (talk) 13:13, 22
November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose - I'm inclined to let the nomination run rather than SNOW closing it shortly
after it being opened, but I agree that no individual game result sans the final
will have lasting significance.--??WaltCip-(talk) 13:18, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose any and all individual match results other than the final. Agree with snow
closing this. Thryduulf (talk) 13:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose on quality, at a minimum. No prose update regarding its significance beyond
any other WC game.�Bagumba (talk) 13:39, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose unfortunately, I feel that this just doesn't really have much lasting
significance. Comparable other updates like North Korea's defeat of Italy in the
1966 World Cup and Algeria's defeat of West Germany in the 1982 World Cup don't
have standalone articles, suggesting limited long-term notability. As slight a
caveat to that, there is an article on the Disgrace of Gij�n, but that merely
manages Algeria's win as part of the background for said match. TartarTorte 13:47,
* Oppose, Snow Close Extremely minor match, not at all
reported. ???? ?????????????? ???????????? ???????????? ?? ?? 14:01, 22 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose. A unique, beautiful and historic victory that made many people happy, but
which, unfortunately, cannot go to ITN. But thank you so much for bringing it here
and reminding us once again of this wonderful moment. :) MSN12102001 (talk) 14:05,
discussion.
2022 Anyang factory fire
Article: 2022 Anyang factory fire (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?A factory fire has killed at least 38 people and two others injured in
Anyang, central China.
Alternative blurb: ?At least 38 people die and two others are injured in a factory
fire in Anyang, China.
News source(s): AL Jazeera, The Guardian, CNN, CGTN, BBC
Nominator's comments: Need expansion. Ainty Painty (talk) 09:36, 22 November 2022
(UTC)
Support - Awful tragedy, notable enough for ITN. Article definitely needs expansion
before it can go up, only four or five sentences atm. PrecariousWorlds (talk)
10:25, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Article is WAY too short for main page posting. Probably needs a 4x to 5x
expansion to be main page ready. --Jayron32 14:10, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. No reason to believe this is anything other than a run of the mill tragedy.
Even fires that engulf whole towns are relatively common and not immediately
newsworthy. I'm not convinced this even meets event notability guidelines.
Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:35, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose, Article is poor. Alex-h (talk) 17:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Support on event notability. However, oppose on article quality, needs to be
lengthened & expanded before posting on ITN. SBS6577P (talk) 10:49, 23 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose on quality. The article needs to be expanded thoroughly. Vida0007 (talk)
19:34, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Support on notability, but oppose on article quality. Nobody seems to be working on
it. Schwede66 23:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Jeremy Lloyds
Article: Jeremy Lloyds (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): BBC
Credits: Updated and nominated by Dumelow (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: English cricketer and umpire, I've expanded a bit from the
obituaries. Death date not stated but announced on 21 November - Dumelow (talk)
20:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, although the "Role" field in the infobox should include his role during
his playing career. Thryduulf (talk) 20:52, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, I added "all-rounder" and his playing dates - Dumelow (talk) 22:51, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) Earthquake in Java
Article: 2022 West Java earthquake (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?A 5.6 magnitude earthquake kills at least 56 people in Java, Indonesia.
News source(s): BBC
Credits: Nominated by Andrew Davidson (talk � give credit)Created by Dora the Axe-
plorer (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Breaking news so updates are awaited. Andrew??(talk) 10:39,
Support, the article is already pretty substantial. --Tone 11:12, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Support Article seems good, seems to have high enough death count. Editor 5426387
Support on the basis of death toll & article quality. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:15,
Posted. Looks OK quality-wise, and fairly clear notability with supports above, so
don't see a reason to hang around. � Amakuru (talk) 11:18, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Post-posting support � Impressive work on the article, so quickly after the
disaster. Looks like a solid entry for ITN indeed. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:31,
Post-posting support although I would have preferred leaving more time for
discussion. Quantum XYZ (chat) 15:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Post-posting support Major significance in the event, high casualties (162 dead
according to BBC), self explanatory to put it in ITN SBS6577P (talk) 23:11, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Comment Agreed that this was obviously going to get posted. But also see the point
about the speed with which it happened. Less than an hour from the nomination with
only three supports is pretty fast for what is supposed to be a consensus oriented
discussion open to the community. Anywho, no harm no foul. But in general, I think
we should normally not post blurbs before the ink on the nomination is dry. -Ad
Orientem (talk) 03:05, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Disagree, per WP:BURO. If the only rationale for waiting is to avoid making people
unhappy they didn't get to contribute to the discussion, then that's a non-
rationale. WP:SNOW also applies to things that don't have a snowball's chance in
hell of not being posted. This was posted appropriately at the time it was posted.
It didn't have to wait. --Jayron32 14:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
There was never any doubt that a disaster of this magnitude would meet the
significance threshold. All that needed to be determined at that point was whether
the article was of sufficient length and quality, and had been updated. That this
was posted quickly was simply a confirmation that the boxes had been ticked. ??
WaltCip-(talk) 15:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Cianjur earthquake damage 1.jpg
Image request May we have an image to accompany the blurb? Discussion is still open
so I thought this place could still hold request. Dora the Axe-plorer (explore)
22:13, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
You should enquire on WP:ERRORS, though I'm not sure how much luck you'll have as
the image doesn't look great at low resolutions. Anarchyte (talk) 08:50, 24
November 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Sebastian Vettel retirement from Formula One
Consensus to post is unlikely to develop.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:53, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
to this discussion.
Proposed image
Article: Sebastian Vettel (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?Four-time Formula One world champion Sebastian Vettel retires from the
sport after 15 seasons and 300 Grand Prix entries.
Alternative blurb: ?Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel retires from Formula
One.
News source(s): BBC, Motorsport.com
Credits: Nominated by Chrill (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Sebastian Vettel is one of only five people in the history of
Formula 1 to win four or more world championships, has raced for a very long time,
and is now retiring from the sport. Chrill (talk) 01:11, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Consensus holds that we do not post sports retirements due to how ephemeral
they tend to be. ??WaltCip-(talk) 02:07, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Sports retirements can be undone, hence why we do not post them. --Masem (t)
02:08, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Even if it was certain to remain, I don't think there's any sports
retirement I'd support posting. Can't think of one athlete. Even MJ's retirement in
1993, I don't think. � Muboshgu (talk) 02:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. Beyond concerns about posting or not posting retirements, I don't see
Vettel's as big enough to merit posting. Maybe among active drivers Hamilton would
be considered, but that is all, in my opinion. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:58, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose I'm more open to posting sports retirements than others around here, but it
really needs to be a Messi-level retirement, a "greatest ever in their sport"
retirement, or at the very least the greatest of their generation, and that's Lewis
Hamilton, not Vettel. NorthernFalcon (talk) 03:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose � Who's he? STSC (talk) 04:13, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
This type of comment is unhelpful. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:27, 21 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose -- sports retirements can be reversed. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:27,
Oppose I don't see the signifiance, even given his career achievenment. Suggest
SNOW close. Unnamelessness (talk) 04:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose As a Vettel fan, this is really sad for me to say this, but I don't see how
this is significant enough to be posted. Guys like Lewis Hamilton, you could make
an argument, but Vettel isn't significant enough to be put on ITN. TheBlueSkyClub
discussion.
2022 Kazakh presidential election
Proposed image
Articles: 2022 Kazakh presidential election (talk � history � tag) and Kassym-
Jomart Tokayev (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev wins reelection bid in the 2022 Kazakh
presidential election following constitutional amendments in extending presidential
term to seven years.
Alternative blurb: ?Kassym-Jomart Tokayev is a reelected as Kazakhstan's president
for a second 7-year term following the January 2022 unrest and the constitutional
referendum.
Alternative blurb II: ?Kassym-Jomart Tokayev wins snap election to serve for
another seven-year term as Kazakhstan's president following the events of January
2022 and the constitutional referendum.
Alternative blurb III: ?Kassym-Jomart Tokayev is declared winner of the 2022 Kazakh
presidential election following unrest in January and the constitutional
referendum.
News source(s): DW, SCMP, Reuters
Credits: Updated and nominated by ShadZ01 (talk � give credit)Created by BastianMAT
(talk � give credit)Updated by Malik Nursultan B (talk � give credit), PLATEL (talk
� give credit), Syaz351 (talk � give credit) and Einahr (talk � give credit)
ShadZ01 (talk) 00:57, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support altblurb - Typos need to be fixed, but notable event. PrecariousWorlds

Support Presidential election, I would go with alternative blurb.� Preceding
unsigned comment added by Cherrell410 (talk � contribs) 02:29, 2022 November 20
(UTC)
Oppose This is orange-tagged for good reason; it needs extensive copy-editing. This
is a big job because the page is huge. But it doesn't actually have a section with
the results, let alone prose about them. To find out what actually happened, I
looked at the news coverage. There's nothing on my usual sources of BBC and NYT so
I read the report on Al Jazeera which seems quite good. The incumbent won by a
landslide, of course, and it's amusing that the runner-up was "against everyone".
BTW, Al Jazeera also reports how the name change of the capital to Nursultan worked
out. That was nominated in 2019 but we didn't run it. Just as well, the name has
recently been changed back to Astana. "It holds the Guinness World Record for the
city with the most name changes."
Andrew??(talk)
Oppose Article quality is poor, furthermore does not accurately reflect this is a
sham election and in name only. Added alblurb3. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:07, 21 November
2022 (UTC)
I think its worth noting that the OSCE didn't say that it was a sham election, nor
did it record instances of voter suppression (as of the time of writing) - normally
if elections are not free or fair, the OSCE would at least criticise how the
elections were run - however OSCE's criticism for this election has been limited to
lack of transparency of media ownership and how other candidates' campaigns were
similar to (and indistinguishable from) Tokayev's. JaventheAldericky (talk) 20:21,
Support Either altblurb 1 (with typos fixed) or altblurb 3. Notable presidential
election that comes on the back of the 2022 Kazakh unrest earlier this year.
JaventheAldericky (talk) 20:21, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment Any further issues here? The article looks exhaustive but I didn't read
everything. --Tone 09:56, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
The orange cleanup banner tag is still there right at the top. A results table has
been added but no prose. Andrew??(talk) 11:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
I see a yellow banner, which is in my view not problematic. As for the results
prose, yes, this is missing. Tone 16:23, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment The results have been added into the article; if there's no other concerns,
the article can be posted. JaventheAldericky (talk) 16:43, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
November 20
(Posted) RD: Mickey Kuhn
Article: Mickey Kuhn (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter, The Telegraph
Credits: Updated and nominated by Nohomersryan (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Working on this page, looks ok. Nohomersryan (talk) 20:48, 22
November 2022 (UTC)
Support. Golden age actor, filmography is referenced. Kirill C1 (talk) 15:28, 23

November 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) 109th Grey Cup
Article: 109th Grey Cup (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?In the 109th Grey Cup, the Toronto Argonauts defeat the Winnipeg Blue
Bombers 24-23.
Credits: Nominated by NorthernFalcon (talk � give credit)Created by Cmm3 (talk �
give credit)Updated by ViperSnake151 (talk � give credit) and Kevinthomas20 (talk �
give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Canadian football's annual championship game, ITN/R. Article
has already been updated and should be good. NorthernFalcon (talk) 20:21, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Strong Support Article is well done and event is on WP:ITN/R. Hcoder3104? (??)
21:02, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support The game summary was added and the annual Grey Cup game has historically
been featured on "In the News". Cmm3 (talk) 21:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support No issues.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:50, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, Article has enough information. Alex-h (talk) 17:10, 22 November 2022
(UTC)
RD: Jason David Frank
Article: Jason David Frank (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): AP
Credits: Nominated by Thriley (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: star of the Power Rangers Thriley (talk) 22:39, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Support but wait Notable actor with a nice article, but wait until/if an actual
death date is released. Cherrell410 (talk) 22:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Not sure that matters, the publication of his death was today, and that's what we
usually go by. - Floydian t � 01:15, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Not a good quality article, many citations needed, and some early life
details (like high school, for instance) are missing or out of place. And we may
never get the exact date of death (especially if he died by suicide and was found
later), and can go with date of announcement. � Muboshgu (talk) 02:18, 21 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose. Orange tagged for more citations. Thryduulf (talk) 12:03, 22 November 2022
(UTC)
Too many paragraphs without footnotes. Filmography is largely unsourced. MMA stats
tables are also unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 05:04, 26 November
2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Hebe de Bonafini
Article: Hebe de Bonafini (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Clarin
Credits: Nominated by Gobonobo (talk � give credit)
Article updated
gobonobo + c 20:56, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support, in the plain list of RDs asap. No prohibitive lackings in the article for
this. -DePiep (talk) 21:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Decent article. Referencing is adequate. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:07, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Posted. Thryduulf (talk) 13:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
RD: Greg Bear
Article: Greg Bear (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Gizmodo
Credits: Nominated by Blaylockjam10 (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Sci-fi author Blaylockjam10 (talk) 12:48, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
Not Ready for the usual reason. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:19, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Too many paragraphs and bullet-points with no footnotes. Please add more REFs. --
PFHLai (talk) 04:58, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) FIFA World Cup opening ceremony
(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Already in the ongoing section. MSN12102001 (talk) 19:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
to this discussion.
Articles: 2022 FIFA World Cup (talk � history � tag) and 2022 FIFA World Cup
opening ceremony (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?The 2022 edition of the FIFA World Cup has opened in Qatar.
News source(s): Al Jazera, BBC, The Guardian, Daily Mail
We do not post the opening ceremony of the world cup - either its ongoing or the
final result. Masem (t) 15:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose We post the final result. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose I know where all this fuss about the FIFA World Cup comes from, but it's not
our business to navel-gaze it in every single accept. Wait until the winner is
known in less than a month and post it then. There are much more significant things
of earth-transforming nature happening, such as the conclusion of the UN Climate
Change Conference. This is a long-awaited event for fun that garners the attention
of billions of people, but it definitely won't change the world in any way.--Kiril
Simeonovski (talk) 17:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Probably because it has a bigger global audience than any sporting event in the
history of the universe. But I guess it's not the Superbowl or NCAA so it's
meaningless to most of our readers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...)
17:42, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Ongoing We do it for the Olympics, and the World Cup has a bigger global audience
than that. Black Kite (talk) 18:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Ongoing - no blurb. nableezy - 18:37, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose - Already covered in Ongoing. We will post the final result.
PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Not on par with the Olympics opening ceremony. Also, this is a stub. �
Muboshgu (talk) 18:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
discussion.
2022 United Nations Climate Change Conference
Article: 2022 United Nations Climate Change Conference (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?The 27th Conference of Parties of the UNFCCC closes with major nations
agreeing to a global loss and damage fund for poor nations impacted by climate
change.
Alternative blurb: ?The COP27 conference closes with an agreement to compensate
poor nations for climate change loss and damage.
Alternative blurb II: ?At the 27th Conference of Parties of the UNFCCC, the first
loss and damage fund is agreed upon.
News source(s): The Guardian, CNN, AP
BBC (for alt1)
Credits: Nominated by Masem (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: The article hasn't yet been updated with this news, but it is
what is being called a landmark negotiation of the major countries there. Masem (t)
06:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support once updated - An important and notable outcome, although it probably won't
actually be implemented. Quantum XYZ (chat) 06:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support when updated per nom and Quantum, big event also, consensus to post was
established last week. echidnaLives - talk - edits 08:41, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose The article seems quite a mess with multiple orange tags, lots of future
tense and no clear summary of what actually happened. Andrew??(talk) 08:47, 20
November 2022 (UTC)
Comment: More concise alt blurb proposed. Sandstein 14:25, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. But we should mention that no agreement has been reached to get to 1.5 C.
It's like visiting a patient in the hospital and reporting that according to the
doctors, the kidneys of the patient have improved somewhat but failing to report
that the overall condition of the patient has deteriorated to the point that the
patient is not expected to survive. Count Iblis (talk) 14:26, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
I do not believe that the 1.5C aspect was even on the table as a major point of
discussions/negotiations. It is not our place to criticize the conference for not
addressing that, and from what I've seen, its only been subjective criticism the
conference didn't include that from RSes, which are things we don't include in ITN
blurbs. Masem (t) 14:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support in principle, but the article needs to elaborate better what�s in the
proposed blurb.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose solely on article quality per above. In particular the issues surrounding
the orange tags will need to be resolved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:53, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Support - Notable outcome, notable event. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:49, 20
November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose per Andrew Davidson and Ad Orientem 69.203.136.65 (talk) 18:52, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Comment I have updated with a key outcome. Arcahaeoindris (talk) 22:32, 21 November
2022 (UTC)
(Posted) Ongoing: FIFA World Cup
Article: 2022 FIFA World Cup (talk � history � tag)
Ongoing item nomination
Credits: Nominated by EchidnaLives (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Starts in about 7 hours (4pm UTC), posted ongoing in 2018.
echidnaLives - talk - edits 08:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support as there is precedent per nom. I'm not sure if the WP:ITN/R label is
appropriate though, as I think it is only the final result that is ITN/R. Quantum
XYZ (chat) 08:40, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Fair enough, ITN/R label removed. echidnaLives - talk - edits 09:35, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Weak support Gigantic sporting event lasting almost one month. Hundreds of car
horns go off at night when I'm trying to sleep. My concerns are the nine citation
needed tags. ~~ lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 10:21, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
Oppose I don�t think anything other than the Olympics deserves a place in ongoing.
The FIFA World Cup is a tournament in a single sport featuring national teams from
only 32 countries that play to win a single set of medals. Ongoing exists as a
practical tool for events that may require posting multiple blurbs, and it is more
suited for events with multiple disciplines and thereby multiple sets of medals
awarded on a daily basis. I don�t think that any game other than the final of this
tournament would merit a blurb, so it�s better to wait until it ends and post the
conclusion with the winning team. I�d say that even the world championships in
athletics and swimming, whose formats allow participation by almost all countries
and feature major developments every day, are a better fit. This has nothing to do
with popularity but with the practical use of ongoing.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk)
10:39, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
The World Cup was one of the events in mind when the Ongoing aspect was proposed.
Masem (t) 13:37, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
We used to post a sticky with an Olympic summary even before Ongoing was
considered. Its introduction was inspired by a sticky posted for the Arab Spring.--
Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support The tournament is the culmination of a competition in which 206 national
teams entered. Other than Olympics most watched sporting event. Of global interest,
even for those who didn�t qualify. yorkshiresky (talk) 15:46, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
I don't think it's relevant if it's watched by 4 billion people (I watch almost
every match regularly, so what?). The point is that the format of this competition
is incompatible with Ongoing. Unlike the Olympics, at which there are notable
events with world records in different sports that would merit a blurb every day,
the matches played at this tournament are chiefly qualifying events for the
final.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:01, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose - I'd rather we just post the final result. Lee Vilenski (talk � contribs)
10:54, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. Sporting tournaments are ongoing by nature, but not in a manner that
warrants posting as such. We'd get laughed out of the building if we proposed
making the NCAA Men's Basketball tournament into an ongoing item. ??WaltCip-(talk)
14:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
The NCAA basketball tournament is like a mini-league, not a single (ongoing) event,
and involves mid-tier amateur athletes of one country. It's nothing alike, of
course it would SNOW quickly. Kingsif (talk) 15:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
64 teams play 1 game, the 32 winners play 1 game, the 16 winners play 1 game, the 8
winners play 1 game, the 4 winners play 1 game, the 2 winners play 1 game, lose at
any time and can't even play anymore that year. Nothing like a league. Like the
knockdown stage of the World Cup tournament but 4 times more teams. Sagittarian
Milky Way (talk) 13:57, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
So like the UEFA Champions League format once it's down to 16. Kingsif (talk)
01:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose per above. ITN is not a sports ticker. Once the tournament is over, and
assuming article quality is up to scratch, we can post the results. -Ad Orientem
Support - In my opinion an obvious Ongoing event. Of world importance, and with 3-4
billion viewers for the entire competition.BabbaQ (talk) 15:02, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
Comment - we should blurb that it has begun, per the Olympics (and the World Cup is
a bigger event globally than the Olympics). Then roll down to Ongoing until the
final result is known. � Amakuru (talk) 15:05, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Blurb per Amakuru. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:24, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support opening ceremony blurb then roll into ongoing per Amakuru. Significant
global event, most popular sport in the world. The purpose of ITN is to signpost
from the main page articles that people might be looking for because the subjects
are in the news, I can't think this won't be highly-sought for the whole duration,
not just start and end. And if true that it is a more-viewed event than the
Olympics, which is of a similar duration and also global, I can only imagine
opposes are because some users don't think association football is important.
Kingsif (talk) 15:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Unlike the Olmypics opening ceremony, there's little pomp or rationale for the
World Cup version. Ongoing is good enough as there is no requirement that we must
have a blurb before something is added to ongoing. Masem (t) 15:57, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Support important event -- lomrjyo talk 16:29, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support at least Ongoing. Per Amakuru, the World Cup is a bigger event globally
than the Olympics - couldn't have said it better myself. 69.203.136.65 (talk)
16:42, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
The Olympics are covered in Ongoing because there is no final result. It has
nothing to do with viewership. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support per consistent precedents, the 2010, 2014 and 2018 World Cups were posted
as ongoing: [7], [8], [9]. Looks like its ongoing status is deeply rooted.
Brandmeistertalk 18:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support obviously. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:06, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support We do it for the Olympics, and the World Cup has a greater audience than
that. No-brainer, really. Black Kite (talk) 18:09, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support... MSN12102001 (talk) 18:32, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Posted ongoing. --Tone 18:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose posting, support pulling from ongoing and posting the final result. Also,
fuck Qatar and FIFA. Bribery and corruption sucks. a!rado?? (C?T) 13:09, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
This is not the forum for your personal spin on FIFA.--??WaltCip-(talk) 13:29, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
This is neither my nor personal nor spin, and even not any combination of those.
It's universal knowledge. But thanks for notifying about WP:NOTFORUM. Anyways, I
don't care. Have a nice day! a!rado?? (C?T) 14:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
If you are going to tell me to fuck off, then do so verbatim rather than couching
it behind a sarcastic bluelink. Thank you. ??WaltCip-(talk) 14:57, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Nominated ongoing for ITN/R.--??WaltCip-(talk) 13:29, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support per above Editor 5426387 (talk) 18:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) 2022 Colorado Springs shooting
Consensus to post will not form given disparate opinions on significance of the
event given its death toll and status of potential hate crime charges.
No prejudice against reconsideration if formal chargers are filed; in that case,

consider a new nomination versus reopening, perhaps allowing for a clearer
consensus.�Bagumba (talk) 09:47, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
to this discussion.
Article: 2022 Colorado Springs shooting (talk � history � tag)

Blurb: ?At least five people are killed and eighteen people are injured in a mass
shooting at a gay nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
Alternative blurb: ?The suspect in a mass shooting that killed five people at a gay
nightclub in Colorado Springs, Colorado was charged with murder and hate crimes.
News source(s): AP NBC News US News
Credits: Nominated by Jgeorge20 (talk � give credit)
User:Jgeorge20 (t) 12:28, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Not a vote If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on
another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a
discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines
regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on
the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by
adding ~~~~ at the end.
Note: Comments by suspected single-purpose accounts or canvassed users may be

tagged using: {{subst:spa|username}} or {{subst:canvassed|username}}
Support and wait the article needs more information to reflect on the latest
updates of this controversy. Article also needs to be expanded as well. Sarrail
Oppose good faith nom. Mass shootings in the US are tragically so commonplace that
posting any but the most extreme cases, with extremely high body counts, would turn
ITN into an American crime blotter. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:47, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
This was a hate crime, giving it a distinction over other mass shootings that occur
with similar casualty rates. I'm also not sure how you'd define extremely high body
counts. Double digits? Triple digits? ??WaltCip-(talk) 14:48, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
For the US? High double digits. We posted the Orlando night club shooting with near
50 killed. I think that was reasonable. Hate crime is neither here nor there. The
lives lost here are no more sacred than the five people murdered last month in
Raleigh NC. We are not here to promote causes, and special victims. See WP:RGW. -Ad
Orientem (talk) 15:00, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
I think the point is that a hate crime mass killing would raise it above the
"commonplace." Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:11, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Precisely. Ad Orientem wanted to know how this was not commonplace. I gave a
reason. I'm not trying to right great wrongs. I'm explaining why this is different
from other mass shootings that are not considered newsworthy. ??WaltCip-(talk)
15:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Hate crimes= special causes/special victims= WP:RGW. Beyond which, no motive has
been established per Masem, though that is a reasonable suspicion. -Ad Orientem
If posting a shooting at a gay club is "RGW" (and I disagree with that, I think it
makes it more newsworthy in keeping with the gay- and drag-panic from the
Republican Party that has played out this year, with Libs of TikTok attacking the
bar after the shooting), then what should we consider lumping two different
shootings with different motivations and circumstances together when we should
evaluate each separate situation independently? � Muboshgu (talk) 17:18, 20
November 2022 (UTC)
I have looked at this and concluded that if we exclude promoting special
causes/people, there is nothing particularly significant about this in a country
where mass shootings occur with greater frequency than my stopping at a gas
station. Further, the death toll in this incident appears to be on the average side
for American mass shootings. The issue is not motive. Every murder has a motive and
every murder is appalling. The issue is commonality. You are of course, free to
disagree. Ad Orientem (talk) 17:38, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Then I guess we're at an impasse. ??WaltCip-(talk) 14:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Comparing a shooting with no known motive to a shooting at an LGBT club that was
scheduled to host a drag brunch tomorrow is a mistake. Not every mass shooting in
the U.S. gets nominated, so we're in no risk of being overrun by these noms. We
have to weigh their merits independently rather than just dismiss them if they're
not "extreme". � Muboshgu (talk) 16:51, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
fwiw, motive has yet to be clearly established, though the Occum's Razor lineup of
the situation would suggest that it is obviously a hate crime against the LGBTQ+
community. Masem (t) 15:13, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
The cause for pretty much every shooting rampage is the gunman's hatred for a
certain group of people, be they co-workers, co-students, teachers, policemen,
women, blacks, whites, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Christians etc. I fail to see how
this particular shooting becomes more noteworthy, just because the victims happened
to be part of the LGBTQ+ community. By US standards the death toll is not that high
and this is merely one more in a litany of similar cases, so it is safe to say that
it will be forgotten quickly by anyone not directly affected. Lord G�n (talk)
21:43, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose per Ad. Very unfortunate event, regardless. --Bedivere (talk) 15:16, 20
November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose � Stub, low death count regardless. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 15:18, 20
November 2022 (UTC)
Support pending expansion Hate crimes are worth posting. Expansion beyond a stub is
necessary though. � Muboshgu (talk) 16:23, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Wait/Weak Support: The number of confirmed victims (deaths + injured) so far is 23,
which surpasses the Buffalo supermarket shooting posted earlier this year. If
confirmed to be motivated out of homophobic or conspiracy theory nonsense, then the
motive more than make makes up for the "low" death toll. However, the article needs
to be expanded before it can be posted. Mount Patagonia (talk) 16:31, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose commonplace event, wouldn't make the top 1000 global news events of the
year. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:50, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. An Occam's Razor analysis of the shooting (at a queer nightclub that hosts
drag brunches, on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance (which nobody upthread
has brought up yet!)) strongly suggests that it's a hate crime. Especially
considering that far-right "news" sources, politicians, etc. in the US have become
more vehemently anti-queer, leading to stochastic terrorism. --Alison (Crazytales)
(talk; edits) 19:34, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
ETA: I'm pretty much in agreement with Muboshgu upthread. --Alison (Crazytales)
(talk; edits) 19:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm confused user:Crazytales. How is a trans person shooting up a queer nightclub
on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance related to far-right anti-queer media
outlets? Can you explain further the basis for your support here? Nfitz (talk)
04:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Support: I agree that this being a hate crime raises its importance, that's not
WP:RGW. Five dead and eighteen injured is not a low # anyway. �VersaceSpace (talk)
19:44, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
25 injured, according to the latest news updates. I'm not sure if that includes the
gunman or not. --Alison (Crazytales) (talk; edits) 20:15, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Hate crime, racism, anti-LGBT sentiment, terrorism, the first ever shooting
on a snowy Saturday in a night club located on the top of a hill overlooking a town
with an electricity blackout and many more. These shootings in the US always have
something �first� that makes them significant in any way. However, this is just
another shooting in a country where the right to keep and bear arms is
constitutionally protected. It�s like considering a deadly car accident in a
country where driving a car is legal. I don�t know what else to say. Full stop.--
Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:03, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
... we post car crashes on occasion, and not just ones in the small handful of
jurisdictions where cars are illegal. The legality of the instruments used isn't
really relevant to anythng, other than to trying to make political points. --
Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 01:52, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Sure. We post car accidents in which a bus crashes and more than 50 people die.
This isn�t that equivalent. The (il)legality is key to prevent (or at least
mitigate) all this. Just call me when a law introducing gun controls will be passed
and you�ve got my support. And, like it or not, this has nothing to do with
politics. It�s just what it is in practice.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 06:37, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose per TRM. It's a sad state of affairs, but this is common now. The motives of
the shooting is not important. Lee Vilenski (talk � contribs) 21:47, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose, and.... All the same reasons as others, plus, we don't know if it's a hate
crime. The article explicitly says we don't know. So using that as an argument for
posting doesn't work. HiLo48 (talk) 22:35, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Comment Whatever the outcome of this nomination is, I'm a little more than thrilled
that the discussion at least seems to be proceeding more civilly than with any of
our previous nominations of this type. ??WaltCip-(talk) 23:31, 20 November 2022
(UTC)
Oppose. Random crimes are not inherently significant. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:49,
Comment In order to make the item more accessible to all readers, the blurb should
mention the country where this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 23:51, 20
November 2022 (UTC)
Support posting since this is a hate crime. --RockstoneSend me a message! 00:51, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
"This is a hate crime" No source on that so far. Tube�of�Light 01:22, 21 November
2022 (UTC)
Weak oppose per Ad Orientem. Tube�of�Light 01:16, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Neutral (I changed my opinion after seeing Tamzin and Silent-Rains' rationales).
Tube�of�Light 04:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. Mass shootings of this scale are, yes, sadly common in the U.S. But if the
question is whether this is commonplace, per History of violence against LGBT
people in the United States it looks like the last incident of this nature was the
2016 Orlando nightclub shooting. In that case, disagreement remains whether the
motive was to target gay people, but in either event, mass shootings targeting gay
nightclubs in the U.S. are a) rare and b) have a resonating effect in the U.S. LGBQ
community (a community larger than the populations of many countries and the
fanbases of many sports), as extensively documented regarding the Orlando shooting.
-- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 01:48, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. As of now, it is the top story on BBC News, The Associated Press, ABC
News, National Public Radio, CNN, NBC News, Inside Edition, The Washington Post,
New York Times, The Washington Examiner, PBS News, Vox, TIME, USA Today, LA Times,
The Guardian, Newsweek, Independent, The Atlantic, Mother Jones, Yahoo News, &
plenty of other media outlets. Silent-Rains (Talk) 04:24, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
I mean, 90% of the outlets you mentioned are American, so they would focus on an
American mass shooting. AryKun (talk) 05:43, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Yes, those were just the media outlets that came to my mind first (i.e major news
websites). I also only listed news sites where the shooting was the top story. In
many foreign media outlets, the top story is the FIFA World cup (which is in
ongoing) but the shooting is still on their front pages. I have also found that
this has received international attention. Here are news reports in Russian,
Spanish, Newbrew, Thai, & Bulgarian. The Wikipedia article itself has versions in
French, Hebrew, & Russian - meaning it has likely gotten significant attention in
countries that speak those languages. Silent-Rains (talk) 05:55, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Many media outlets "foreign" to the USA customise their content for the location of
the reader, so seeing this in sites like the BBC from within the USA doesn't prove
much at all. HiLo48 (talk) 06:55, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
International notability doesn't have to be proven. All that needs to be proven is
that the item is significant and newsworthy. No qualifiers. ??WaltCip-(talk) 14:32,
Support � Readers should be informed about this sort of mass killing typically
happened in the U.S. � STSC (talk) 04:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support The attack took place during a commemoration of the Trans Day of
Remembrance memorializing the trans people killed during the year. It was also
during a drag show. Drag events have had an increase of threats and violence and
children�s hospitals have faced bomb threats[9] in the past year for providing
transgender healthcare for children. I also think 25 injured is notable. -
TenorTwelve (talk) 06:27, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support - no, this is not a common occurrence, and the reflexive dismissal of it as
though it were should be disregarded. Mass casualty hate crimes are not common in
the United States. And thats why its in the news across the world. nableezy -
07:07, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Whether or not it's a hate crime is speculation at this point, as we don't know the
shooter's motives. Endwise (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Formal hate crime charges have been brought. nableezy - 17:35, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Support. This is important to publicize. Right-wing terrorism is escalating in the
United States. This is a notable event on the Trans Day of Remembrance. The number
killed is almost identical to the bombing in Istanbul already featured on the front
page. This event should be included.73.229.27.91 (talk) 07:58, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Who has decided it's right wing terrorism? HiLo48 (talk) 09:39, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
It very clearly is. It's not a high bar to pass.
It is even being investigated as a hate crime - a step further than simply being
right-wing terrorism. 73.229.27.91 (talk) 16:59, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
He has been charged with 5 counts of murder, and 5 counts of 'committing a bias-
motivated crime causing bodily injury'.
The event fits the criteria for right-wing terrorism as it's defined in that page.
73.229.27.91 (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. Per Elijah, TRM and Kiril. Horrendous, but it�s a sad routine. _-_Alsor
Oppose Shootings seem common in Colorado Springs, let alone the entire USA � there
were several reported in recent weeks. And notice that Colorado Springs shooting is
a disambiguation page with numerous entries. And that's not including Columbine
which is nearby. Andrew??(talk) 19:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
War in Europe is a disambiguation page, I suggest we no longer consider ethnic
conflicts or just general violence in Europe for this page as it is sadly a regular
occurence. nableezy - 19:50, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
War in Europe is not a disambiguation page; it's a redirect to a list. For 2022,
that list just has the war in Ukraine and 2022 Corsica unrest. The latter was
nominated at ITN but not posted. An even better European example is the recent 2022
Bratislava shooting � quite a similar event which was not posted at ITN. So, we see
that similar low-level violence in Europe is not posted at ITN too. Q.E.D. Andrew??
Support per Tamzin. Occam's Razor would indicate this is a hate crime. ??WaltCip-
Occam's razor is just a type of best guess but, per WP:OR, we don't do guesswork
here. What the relevant guideline, WP:CRIME, says is "A living person accused of a
crime is presumed not guilty unless and until the contrary is decided by a court of
law." Andrew??(talk) 13:08, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
On ITN/C, we're forced to make a determination within 7 days (sometimes less) as to
how significant an item is based on the facts available at the time. Of course, the
investigation has not yet been completed, and it may take time before the shooter's
intentions and motives become public knowledge. But since an ITN item becomes stale
once it rolls past the 7-day mark, we have to make a judgment call, partially based
on the circumstances surrounding the case. The circumstances are particularly stark
in this shooting. Also, WP:BLPCRIME is not applicable here since the living person
is not actually named in the nomination. ??WaltCip-(talk) 14:25, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Well, for comparison, the perpetrator of the Orlando nightclub shooting was
actually motivated by his hatred of the United States/US imperialism, and initial
speculation about his intent to target a gay nightclub was actually incorrect. We
can't just "Occam's razor" our way into believing it a hate crime; Wikipedia should
not engage in this kind of speculation. Endwise (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Comment WP:OR prohibits using original research in article content. Period. "This
policy does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content
and sources, such as deletion discussions or policy noticeboards." It has
absolutely nothing to do with ITN yes/no decisions. (Similarly, WP:CRYSTAL and
WP:RGW are just as irrelevant on this page. Heck, WP:NPOV doesn't apply here
either.)� Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.91.40.241 (talk) 15:33, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Presumably US gun murders should be put into ongoing once and for all.
128.91.40.241 (talk) 15:33, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Not all murders by firearm are the same, and the tut-tutting above about "where it
is constitutionally protected" belongs on a blog, not here. nableezy - 15:47, 21
November 2022 (UTC)
Support Article meets main page standards, is being covered appropriately by news
sources to demonstrate that it is a story in the news. Checks all of the boxes. --
Jayron32 15:39, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
comment: the onion has republished its 'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation
Where This Regularly Happens article, suggesting that this may not be a run-of-the-
mill event. dying (talk) 16:47, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
now charged as a hate crime, altblurb suggested. nableezy - 17:33, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Yep; just saw that come through the NY Times. Unfortunately, the court records
related to the prosecution will be sealed, so although they are charging this as a
hate crime, we won't see the actual evidence that leads them to believe they have a
case. ??WaltCip-(talk) 17:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
The media has done rather a thorough job to point out all the red flags the suspect
has to leave little doubt why it was a hate crime. That said for here the key is
that he has been formally charged with it, and while a jury may find him not guilty
of the hate crime aspect, the prosecution is going into this with that assertion.
Masem (t) 18:00, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
My thoughts exactly. The prosecution wouldn't press such a case if they felt they
didn't have a chance of winning a conviction on those grounds, particularly if the
evidence in this case is sealed. ??WaltCip-(talk) 18:09, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. As per Jayron32's comment above, this article checks all the boxes. It has
also become (arguably) the biggest headline right now apart from the ongoing World
Cup and the recent earthquake in Indonesia. Vida0007 (talk) 19:24, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Support It's been 36 hours, and this story is still on the front page of BBC (and
3rd in "Top Stories" at the time of writing) despite the World Cup. Ionmars10
Oppose. Deaths of 20 people in Mexico or 100 in Africa don't make the front page,
which is already too America-centric. Sheila1988 (talk) 20:30, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
If you don't nominate these, we can't consider them. Masem (t) 13:11, 22 November
2022 (UTC)
Support - This crime has quite reasonably attracted a lot of media attention as a
hate crime with several victims. There's a lot of whataboutery in many of the
oppose !votes. It's not attempting to Right Great Wrongs to observe that a
newsworthy thing is newsworthy for more than just the death toll. Let's not try to
use WP policy as a tool to beat down stories about the oppression of minorities.
GenevieveDEon (talk) 22:35, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Major story, article is of sufficient quality. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:39,
Support Important story and article is much better now compared to earlier edits
Ppt91 (talk) 01:13, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. Clearly below the death threshold for a US mass shooting. -LtNOWIS (talk)
04:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
There is no such thing. ??WaltCip-(talk) 13:19, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
While, User:WaltCip there may not be a hard number, it's below the death threshold
for a Denver mass shooting - let alone the State of Colorado or that entire
country. There were three bigger shootings in that locality in the last 20 months.
Nfitz (talk) 20:17, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose based on the argument put forward by Kiril. Oriental Aristocrat (talk)
14:04, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose I would agree that if this is a hate crime, it would put it beyond routine
mass shootings in the US. But this has not been established (charges are not it)
and newer reports indicate other motivations. Considering the (fortunately) low
death count and unclear motive as to the existence of a hate crime I am opposing
this. Gotitbro (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose a shooting in the USA and only 5 dead? I'm sorry, is this notable because
the death toll is so low? The choice of Americans to not have gun control makes
this a regular occurrence - and yes, more than once a year is a regular occurrence.
Good grief, there have been 3 bigger shootings in the Denver area in the last 20
months! Nfitz (talk) 20:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
@Nfitz:, WP:MINIMUMDEATHS doesn't seem to exist. You're ignoring what makes this
shooting notable. � Muboshgu (talk) 20:27, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm not seeing anything User:Muboshgu that makes it notable. What do you see is
notable about it? There seems to be claims it's a hate crime - but I don't see any
evidence for that. Nfitz (talk) 04:09, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
discussion.
November 19
RD: Tuan Tuan
Article: Tuan Tuan and Yuan Yuan (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits: Nominated by Count Iblis (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Count Iblis (talk) 12:48, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Not Ready for the usual reason. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:49, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
Still quite a few footnote-deficient paragraphs in the prose. Please add more REFs.
--PFHLai (talk) 17:02, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
2021 Rugby League World Cup (delayed to 2022)
Article: 2021 Rugby League World Cup (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?In rugby league, the World Cup concludes with Australia winning the men's
tournament and the women's tournament, and England winning the wheelchair
tournament.
Alternative blurb: ?In rugby league, Australia men, Australia women, and England
wheelchair team win the World Cup.
Credits: Nominated by JamesLewisBedford01 (talk � give credit)
Nominator's comments: Posted only once before for the 2013 WC (as per its ITN/C).
2017 nom went stale. Updated content found under relevant sections in the bolded
article. I preferred the overview article to update/bold over individual final
articles because 1) it only exists for the men's so far, 2) general article
quality, 3) for the sake of tidiness in the blurb. On a side note, we might as well
change the recurring item to when Australia win... Nominated by James Lewis Bedford
Support, just. The singular main article has had table updates, the non-bold links
to the event tournaments have had more update (tables and lead text). As we
typically post the finals, once there is an article for the women's final
(wheelchair has one, too!), perhaps the "tournament" words and links can be changed
to "final". Per ITN talk discussion, I am satisfied that the whole World Cup is
ITN/R. Kingsif (talk) 19:04, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
The event tournaments have no prose about the updated content as per WP:ITNCRIT
(i.e. content about the finals), whilst the main article does. Final articles have
both been bolded or left out at different times and there is no WP:ITNSPORTS
guidance on this except that "generally, the specific event article for that
year/time period is the target article in the blurb". Tennis very rarely has
separate final articles and I think given the similar men/women/multiple winners in
this item it works better without going overkill with the bold links. Comment by
James Lewis Bedford (talk) 19:40, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
I was going to say I had seen no prose update at the main article, but now I see
it's at the top of the tournament sections. It's also more editorial in tone than
I'd like. Perhaps spreading the prose through the relevant stages of each
tournament, and making it "blander" for want of a better word, could help if you
don't want to link finals. FWIW, I was not suggesting bolding them, just replacing
the "Australia wins the men's tournament" with "Australia wins the men's final"
etc., if you're just worried about bold links. Not that three bold links is more
than we've had in one blurb before. Kingsif (talk) 19:46, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
I think spreading the updated content to the relevant stage in the subsection (e.g.
knockout stage) only moves anything from the top of the section to the bottom
(which isn't that far apart anyway) and changes its structure from prose�>tables to
prose�>tables�>prose, but I'm indifferent to it. It's not an awful lot of prose and
just provides more descriptive detail about the tables that will follow. Comment by
James Lewis Bedford (talk) 20:02, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Support per above Cherrell410 (talk) 23:12, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Support top-level international tournament. �Jonny Nixon (talk) 09:03, 20 November
2022 (UTC)
Oppose - not ready. The organisation of the article is such that when I click the
section to read about the final I get see no prose at all and have to go hunting
for it elsewhere. Also, the list of broadcasters table has huge swathes just marked
"TBA" which should not be the case after the event has concluded. Thryduulf (talk)
19:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
@JamesLewisBedford01: wrote something about the organisation of the prose and not
linking the finals articles instead a few comments above. Guess he'll also have
some insight about the TBA's? Kingsif (talk) 01:49, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Sorry @Thryduulf, I don't follow. There is no clickable "final" subsection for the
tournaments in question. There is a knock-out phase section which is the closest
thing to it and just above it in the prose under the tournament headers there is
prose for the final which constitutes basically the majority of the section. After
checking, there are three "TBA"s out of thirteen (hardly swathes) in the
broadcasting section. I'll now fix it or just remove it if there are no updates not
that I think it is detrimental to the ITN/Criteria. None of these issues raised
seems to effect ITN/C and are just styling/general article improvement issues that
any editor may wish to quickly fix themselves. Comment by James Lewis Bedford
I follow the link to the bolded article, look at the TOC, see the apparently most
relevant section is called "knockout stage", click on it and all I see is a table,
so I scroll up and see more tables and then a block of prose about the whole
competition that I have to look through to find information about the final - I
shouldn't have to go hunting. It isn't a "styling" issue but an article layout
issue and not being able to find prose about the finale where nearly two decades of
reading Wikipedia articles has taught me to look for prose about the finals is
significant enough for me to stand-by my opposition. The TBAs, while not a reason
to oppose on their own, did need improving and while there may only have been three
they represented by far the greatest amount of screen estate in that column.
Thryduulf (talk) 12:01, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Oppose We typically link these types of sports blurbs to a page that details the
finals (e.g. 2021 Women's Rugby League World Cup Final). Currently, the finals
details are strangely more in the top-level 2021 Rugby League World Cup, while that
page lacks much overview of the overall tourney, aside from tables.�Bagumba (talk)
06:45, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
RD: Tariq Teddy
Article: Tariq Teddy (talk � history � tag)
News source(s): Dunya News, Daily Pakistan
Oppose. The prose is stubby and the "Stage shows" and "Films" sections are entirely
unsourced (and as the latter contains only a single entry I am not convinced it
needs to be its own section anyway). Thryduulf (talk) 13:41, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
No improvements over the past five days. --PFHLai (talk) 16:44, 26 November 2022
(UTC)
(Posted) 2022 Malaysian general election
Proposed image
Article: 2022 Malaysian general election (talk � history � tag)
Blurb: ?The 15th Malaysian general election concludes with a hung parliament, with
Anwar Ibrahim (picture shown), leader of the Alliance of Hope, sworn in as the new
prime minister of Malaysia.
Alternative blurb: ?Anwar Ibrahim (picture shown), leader of the Alliance of Hope,
becomes Malaysia's 10th prime minister after the general election resulted in the
nation's first hung parliament.
News source(s): MalaysiaKini, FMT, Bloomberg
Credits: Nominated by PenangLion (talk � give credit)Created by Pizza1016 (talk �
give credit)Updated by WEEROR (talk � give credit), Sumberjaya2014 (talk � give
credit), Comeback Uvuvwue (talk � give credit), NgKQ (talk � give credit) and
PenangLion (talk � give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Article is presentable, albeit with the occasional
typewriting errors. The blurb however, will be updated until the official results
are completely released (expected within 6 hours after this post is first made).
Recent events fully indicate that Anwar Ibrahim will be the new Prime Minister of
Malaysia under the directives of the King of Malaysia. gavre (al. PenangLion)
Wait It would seem wise to wait until the results of the election come out before
posting blurb. Editor 5426387 (talk) 19:56, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Wait per Editor 5426387 2A00:23C8:B03:9F01:581D:EC3D:869C:F2CE (talk) 21:58, 19
November 2022 (UTC)
Support All results have been declared (apart from the 2 seats where the election
was postponed). I updated the article's infobox and lead, and added an alternative
blurb to indicate a milestone. Pizza1016 (talk | contribs) 00:54, 21 November 2022
(UTC)
Apparently there are still unpredictable outcomes with coalition governments not
being formed right now. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 04:48, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Major update - Press statements from the King of Malaysia today have confirmed
Anwar Ibrahim's appointment as the new prime minister of Malaysia after convening
several Malay sultans. gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 08:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Support All election results have been 99% officially announced, and the new PM has
been officially sworn in. Chongkian (talk) 03:20, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support The target article is well cited and gives a good overview of the election.
Seems a little overdue of ITN, maybe we should put an (attention needed) notif --
Jiaminglimjm (talk) 03:35, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support A significant election result for a country, as a hung parliament now
indicates political competitiveness in what was practically was single-party rule
for decades. Anwar being appointed PM is also a major chapter in Malaysian
politics. - Mailer Diablo 14:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Support The article has been updated to account for the noteworthy election result
and the formation of the new Malaysian government. Here's hoping for a better
Malaysia that excels under Anwar's policies. JaventheAldericky (talk) 16:27, 25
November 2022 (UTC)
Updated alt blurb. I prefer this one over the proposed one. Pizza1016 (talk |
contribs) 02:00, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Support Considering the significance of this event in the region as well as Anwar's
own struggles, it really suits. Ricky250 (talk) 08:32, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
@Muboshgu and Bagumba: - admins can you take a look at this for posting? Thanks!
starship.paint (exalt) 02:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Posted Did not pipe Pakatan Harapan to Alliance of Hope, as the election page did
not either.�Bagumba (talk) 09:29, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
References
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in
discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline
URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that
keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without
having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
Finley, Ben; Schoenbaum, Hannah (November 22, 2022). "TV meteorologist, pilot die
in news helicopter crash". APnews.com. Associated Press. Retrieved November 22,
2022.
"WBTV helicopter crashes on I-77 South, two killed". WBTV.com. CBS News. November
22, 2022. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
Vera, Amir; Paget, Sharif; Alonso, Melissa (November 22, 2022). "Helicopter crash
leaves TV meteorologist and pilot dead in Charlotte, North Carolina". CNN.com. CNN.
Retrieved November 22, 2022.
"WBTV mourning the loss of meteorologist Jason Myers, pilot Chip Tayag". WBTV.com.
CBS News. November 22, 2022. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
Lee, Hank; Brierton, James; Schiff, Blair (November 22, 2022). "Reaction to fatal
WBTV helicopter crash - 2 dead in TV news helicopter crash". WCNC.com. NBC news.
Retrieved November 22, 2022.
Off, Gavin (November 22, 2022). "A final day of flying: hovering over uptown,
South End and a deadly path along I-77". charlotteobserver.com. The Charlotte
Observer. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
Cox, Kallie; Marusak, Joe (November 22, 2022). "Live Updates: Charlotte
meteorologist and pilot from WBTV killed in helicopter crash off Interstate 77".
charlotteobserver.com. The Charlotte Observer. Retrieved November 22, 2022.
Oxenden, McKenna (November 22, 2022). "TV Meteorologist and Pilot Die in
Helicopter Crash in North Carolina". NYtimes.com. The New York Times. Retrieved
November 22, 2022.
https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/11/18/childrens-hospital-target-3rd-bomb-
threat-over-trans-care?amp
vte
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RD: Doddie Weir

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Support - Article looks good.CoatCheck (talk) 04:05, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

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