CASE IT-96-23-T & 23/1-T PROSECUTOR vs. KUNARAC ET.AL.(Foa ! "ITNESS NA#E$ "%&'(ss )* 29 & 3* #a+,- 2*** "(.'(s.

a/0 29 #a+,- 2*** Pa1( 123* [The witness entered court] JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. May the witness please a!e the sole n declaration. "an she stand up# please. T$E %&T'E((: [&nterpretation] & sole nly declare that & will spea! the truth# the whole truth# and nothin) *ut the truth. T$E %&T'E((: "ITNESS )* JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. You can sit down. E+a ined *y Ms. ,uo: -. Good ornin). %ith the assistance o. the usher# &/d li!e to show this witness E+hi*it 012. This copy has also *een pre3iously )i3en to De.ence counsel# and & *elie3e the "ourt also has copies. %itness# do you see your na e on E+hi*it 0124 Pa1( 1231 A. Yes. -. And ne+t to it do you also see the nu *er 564 A. Yes. -. Throu)hout these proceedin)s you will *e re.erred to *y that nu *er. Do you understand4 A. Yes. -. %itness# do you also see your *irth date under your na e4 A. Yes. -. 7n that piece o. paper do you also see your other/s na e4 A. Yes. -. And what is the nu *er ne+t to your other/s na e4 A. 'u *er 50. -. Do you see your .ather/s na e4 A. Yes# & do. -. %hat is the nu *er ne+t to his na e4 A. 'u *er 58. -. And do you see your )rand other/s na e4 A. Yes. -. %hat is the nu *er ne+t to her na e4 A. 'u *er 28. M(. ,U7: Your $onours# the 9rosecution wishes to enter into e3idence E+hi*it 012. Pa1( 1232 JUDGE MUMBA: "an we ha3e the nu *er .or ally entered# please. T$E :EG&(T:A:: [&nterpretation] This will *e docu ent 012# the 9rosecution e3idence# and this is a con.idential e+hi*it. M(. ,U7:

-. Be.ore we continue# &/d li!e to as! you i. you/re ta!in) any edication this ornin). A. Yes. -. %hat are you ta!in)4 A. A ta*let to cal e down. -. &s this a prescription .ro a doctor4 A. 'o. -. Does the .act that you/re ta!in) this edication a..ect your a*ility to understand or to answer ;uestions today4 A. 'o. -. Do you *elie3e that it a..ects your e ory in any way4 A. 'o. -. 7!ay# %itness. $ow old are you4 <redacted= Pa1( 1233 <redacted= -. Do you !now when the war in >oca started4 A. 7n the 1th o. April# 0??8. -. Did you hear or see anythin) at that ti e4 A. & saw 3ia the edia that there was war )oin) on# there was shellin)# and & could hear the shellin) as well. -. Did you also see soldiers in your 3illa)e4 Pa1( 1232 A. >ro ti e to ti e. -. Did the war in >oca a..ect your li.e in your 3illa)e4 A. Yes# it did# a*solutely. -. "an you e+plain in what way4 A. %ell# .or e+a ple# we couldn/t )o into town any ore. %e weren/t a*le to *uy .ood# ci)arettes# anythin) li!e that# any toiletries# anythin)# anythin) you wanted @@ you needed# whether you needed to )o to a doctor or anythin) else# you couldn/t )o. &t was i possi*le to )o into town. -. %ere you scared4 A. & was too scared. -. "an you e+plain why you were scared or what you were scared o.4 A. %ell# & was a.raid that so ethin) *ad would happen to e# that & would *e !illed or so ethin) li!e that# and actually# all the thin)s that & was a.raid o. & e+perienced on y own s!in later on. That/s how it turned out. -. %itness# what ethnicity are you4 A. Musli . -. Did the .act that you were a Musli ha3e anythin) to do with why you were scared4 A. %ell# yes# *ecause only the (er*s were ar ed# Pa1( 123) no*ody else. -. At the *e)innin) o. May 0??8# did you and your .a ily *e)in to li3e in the woods4 A. Yes.

-. %hy4 A. %e saw ore o. the ar y and our nei)h*ours wore uni.or s. They had weapons. And we were a.raid that we i)ht *e *urnt in our ho es# which had started to happen in the surroundin) 3illa)es. And .or these reasons# and other reasons# we withdrew @@ we too! to the woods. -. $ow .ar were the woods .ro your house4 A. 'ot 3ery .ar. -. Did you e3er )o *ac! to your house while you were in the woods4 A. Yes. %e would co e durin) the dayti e to prepare so e .ood# so ethin) to eat. %e would ha3e a chan)e o. clothin). And then as dus! .ell# we would )o *ac!. -. (o you were sleepin) in the woods too4 A. Yes. -. $ow any people were with you in the woods4 A. A*out 05. -. Do you !now i. there were other )roups li3in) in the woods4 Pa1( 1236 A. & thin! there were. The people a little .urther o.. & thin! went to the woods as well. -. Do you !now what ethnicity they were4 A. Musli s. -. And the people li3in) with you in the woods# were they also Musli s4 A. Yes. -. Do you !now i. there were any (er*s who were also hidin) in the woods at that ti e4 A. 'o. -. 7n July Ard# 0??8# was your 3illa)e attac!ed4 A. Yes# it was. -. %hat ti e o. day was that4 A. &n the early ornin)# at a*out 2.66 a. . -. %here were you at that ti e4 A. &n the shelter we were in *e.ore in the woods. -. %hat did you see4 A. At .irst & didn/t see anythin). You could Bust hear shootin) all o3er the place. &t was terri*le. There was such a lot o. shootin). &t was a*solutely aw.ul. &n .act# the shootin) wo!e e up. -. %hat did you do when you heard the shootin)4 A. %e )ot dressed ;uic!ly and we thou)ht we should )et away .ro that i pro3ised tent and )o Pa1( 1233 .urther into the woods# and that/s what we did a.terwards. -. %as your .ather with you at that ti e4 A. That ni)ht he was# *ut *e.ore & wo!e up and *e.ore the shootin) *e)an# he had )one down to the house. $e wasn/t there. -. (o who was with you then4 %hat other e *ers o. your .a ily4 A. My other# y two *rothers# and y sisterC

and the other people were other e *ers o. y *roader .a ily. -. %here did you )o when you went .urther into the woods4 A. & don/t understand. -. Did you )o so eplace speci.ic# or did you stay so eplace4 A. Yes. %e went to a spot# a place# and we thou)ht that it would *e a little sa.er there# *ecause it was situated *etween the (er*ian and Musli houses# e;ual distance .ro *oth these )roups o. houses. -. $ow lon) did you stay there4 A. & thin! we stayed until the 5th o. July# when we were captured. & don/t !now e+actly. -. "ould you descri*e how you were captured4 A. %ell# & see to re e *er that 3ery *adly now# Pa1( 1234 *ecause the ni)ht *etween the Ard and the Dth o. July# there was such terri*le shootin) )oin) on in the nei)h*ourin) 3illa)e called TrosanB# in the 3illa)e a*o3e y own# and & was so a.raid that & really don/t !now what happened. & Bust !now that we went onto a road and that .our soldiers dressed in uni.or ca e out *e.ore us# and one o. y nei)h*ours was a on) the . & !new hi . &/3e !nown hi e3er since & was a child# .or as lon) as &/3e li3ed. That is so ethin) that & re e *er ost 3i3idly# whereas what happened *e.ore is all a haEe to e. & re e *er it .aintly. -. And the nei)h*our that you entioned# what ethnicity was he4 A. $e was a (er*. -. %hat happened when you saw these .our soldiers4 A. %ell# nothin). That nei)h*our ca e up to us and he said that there was no reason to *e a.raid# that as we were )ood nei)h*ours# we would *e ta!en to Montene)ro# to .ree territory# that we/re not to *la e .or anythin)# and we weren/t to *la e# *ecause we were Bust wo en and children. $e said that they would Bust help us to *e trans.erred to Montene)ro and that e3erythin) would *e all ri)ht. -. A.ter he told you that# what did you do4 Pa1( 1239 A. They too! us o.. to Bu! BiBela# to the otel in Bu! BiBela# which was close *y. -. Did you !now @@ or had you *een to Bu! BiBela *e.ore this4 A. Yes. Yes# & did !now it. -. "ould you descri*e what it was4 A. You ean the .acility# the *uildin)s# or what4 -. Yes. A. All ri)ht. There was a otel# the Bu! BiBela otel# where there was a restaurant# a !itchen# and so on. And opposite the otel was so ethin) li!e so e *arrac!s# so e pre.a*ricated huts# which were there ay*e .or the wor!ers to spend the ni)ht in.

M(. ,U7: %ith the assistance o. the usher# & would li!e to show the witness 9rosecution E+hi*it 00# nu *er FD02. This# a)ain# is an enlar)ed 3ersion o. what is in the *inders. &. the usher could also# a.ter the witness has loo!ed at the e+hi*it# place it on the EGM7. -. Do you reco)nise what is in the photo)raph *e.ore you4 A. Yes# & do reco)nise it. -. %hat is it4 A. Yes. Pa1( 122* -. "an you descri*e what it is in the photo)raph4 A. The arrow points to the otel. The *uildin)s around it# these *uildin)s .urther up here [indicates]# when & was tal!in) a o ent a)o# & thou)ht these were the *arrac!s. This with the *lac! roo. is the otel and restaurant itsel.. -. And where are the *arrac!s4 "an you indicate that# please4 A. Yes. These are the *arrac!s [indicates]# o3er here was well# all this. All these are *arrac!s. -. And you/re indicatin) the *uildin)s with the white roo.sC is that ri)ht4 A. Yes. That/s ri)ht. -. Than! you. M(. ,U7: Your $onours# & see we ha3e only .i3e inutes *e.ore our *rea!. May & re;uest that we ta!e the *rea! at this point so the ne+t line o. ;uestionin) can continue uninterrupted. [Trial "ha *er deli*erates] JUDGE MUMBA: All ri)ht. %e shall allow the re;uest *y the 9rosecution# and we shall *rea!. And perhaps we/ll start .i3e inutes early# 00.85. @@@ :ecess ta!en at 06.55 a. . @@@ 7n resu in) at 00.82 a. . Pa1( 1221 JUDGE MUMBA: %e/ll proceed with the e+a ination@in@chie.. M(. ,U7: -. %itness# when you were ta!en to Bu! BiBela# were you ta!en in a )roup4 A. Yes. -. And were they all wo en and children in that )roup4 A. There were two en# elderly# distantly related to e. -. Did you see what happened to the when they were ta!en to Bu! BiBela4 A. & don/t re e *er. -. %hen you were ta!en to Bu! BiBela# where were you told to )o at .irst4 A. %e were told that we were supposed to wait .or transportation in Bu! BiBela. The nei)h*our & entioned a .ew inutes a)o would or)anise transportation .or us in order to *e trans.erred to

.ree territory. -. And when you arri3ed at Bu! BiBela# where did you )o# or where were you ta!en4 A. %e were ta!en to one o. the roo s in these *arrac!s. -. %ere you ta!en out separately .ro that roo Pa1( 1222 at so e point4 A. Yes. -. %ho too! you out4 A. A & supposed to say the na e4 -. &. you !now the na e# please say it. A. A an na ed Horan Iu!o3ic too! e out. -. Did you !now this an .ro *e.ore the war4 A. & i)ht ha3e seen hi *e.ore the war. The .ace see ed 3ery .a iliar to e. %hether & !new it .ro *e.ore# & don/t !now. -. Did you !now his na e *e.ore the war4 A. & don/t re e *er. -. Did you learn his na e durin) the war4 A. 7n se3eral occasions# yes. -. At the ti e that he too! you out at Bu! BiBela# did you !now his na e4 A. & don/t re e *er. -. %hat was he wearin) when he too! you out4 A. Military clothin)# ca ou.la)e. -. Did he ha3e any weapons4 A. Yes. -. Are you a*le to descri*e those weapons4 A. & !now .or sure that he had a pistol. %hether he had so ethin) else# & cannot re e *er at this o ent. Pa1( 1223 -. %here did Horan Iu!o3ic ta!e you4 A. $e too! e to another roo # appro+i ately in this last pre.a*ricated *uildin)# on the *an! o. the Drina :i3er. & thin! that this roo was at the end o. the hallway# *ecause its window .aced the Drina :i3er. -. %as there anyone else in that roo when you arri3ed4 A. %hen we arri3ed# no. -. "ould you descri*e the roo C what !ind o. .urniture it was or how *i) it was4 A. &t was eant to *e a *edroo . &t had two *eds# perhaps a ni)ht ta*le *y it# a cup*oard. A real *edroo . -. %ere you told why you were *ein) ta!en there4 A. & was told that & was supposed to *e ;uestioned a*out so ethin). -. %hat did Horan Iu!o3ic do when he too! you to that roo 4 A. $e raped e. -. &/ sorry to ha3e to as! you so e speci.ics# *ut the "ourt will need to !now. "an you descri*e what he did4 A. Yes. $e pushed e onto one o. the *eds. $e as!ed e to put his penis into y outh.

-. And did he do that4

Pa1( 1222 A. $e did it hi sel.. -. $ow lon) did that last4 A. & don/t !now. -. Did he say anythin) while this was happenin)4 A. $e was sayin) thin)s li!e: %hat a & a.raid o.4 Don/t & !now what se+ is4 $a3en/t & done it *e.ore4 That !ind o. thin). JGet/s enBoy it.J That !ind o. thin). -. %ere you scared4 A. Yes. -. Did you .eel li!e you could do anythin) to de.end yoursel.4 A. &t was i possi*le. $e had a pistol. $e threatened. And e3en had & ris!ed y own li.e there# & was a.raid .or y .a ily/s li3es. (o & didn/t dare do anythin). -. %hen did this stop4 A. & don/t !now. & can/t say e+actly. -. Did so ethin) happen4 A. & did not understand your ;uestion. "an you rephrase it4 -. &/ sorry. & eant# did so ethin) happen to stop what he was doin) to you4 A. & thin! so# yes. Yes. >or sure so ethin) happened. But & don/t !now whether these two soldiers Pa1( 122) wal!ed into the roo or whether they !noc!ed on the door *e.ore that# or whether they were cla ourin) in the hallway. At any rate# so e*ody ca e in and it stopped. -. And whoe3er ca e in# did they indicate that a *us was ready to lea3e4 A. Yes. -. And what happened a.ter that4 A. They put us onto a *us. And they also said that they were ta!in) us away .ro thereC that we would *e reunited with the other wo en and children who were also waitin) to *e trans.erred to .ree territory# and strai)ht .ro there they too! us to the hi)h school centre in >oca. -. %as your other on the *us4 A. Yes. -. Did you tell her at that ti e what had happened to you4 A. & don/t thin! & told her# *ut she was s art enou)h to understand what had happened. -. %hy didn/t you say anythin) to her a*out what had happened to you4 A. & thou)ht that i. & had to su..er# they didn/t ha3e to !now a*out it. -. Did you e3er tell the details o. what happened to you there to anyone in your .a ily4 Pa1( 1226 A. 'e3er. -. &n 0??5# do you re e *er spea!in) with in3esti)ators .ro the Tri*unal# at the end o. Au)ust

and the *e)innin) o. (epte *er4 A. Yes# & re e *er. -. And you )a3e a state ent at that ti e a*out what happened to you durin) the warC is that ri)ht4 A. Yes. -. Did you tell the in3esti)ators at that ti e the details o. what happened to you at Bu! BiBela# and Horan Iu!o3ic4 A. & did not. -. %hy not4 A. & don/t !now. Those words could not lea3e y outh. -. 73er this past wee!end# on (unday# March 82th# did you co e to the Tri*unal and eet with an in3esti)ator# and & was there as well4 A. Yes. -. %ere you shown your pre3ious state ents4 A. Yes. -. Did you read your pre3ious state ents4 A. & read the . -. %ere you as!ed at that ti e i. you wanted to correct or add anythin) to your state ents4 Pa1( 1223 A. Yes. -. Did you descri*e what Horan Iu!o3ic did to you at Bu! BiBela at that ti e4 A. & did. -. %hy did you descri*e it then4 A. >irst o. all# *ecause o. the oath & too! today# that & would spea! the truth and nothin) *ut the truth. & !new &/d co e to this courtroo . That/s why. And secondly# let it *e !nown that it really happened. &t/s not easier .or e to spea! a*out it today# *ut ne3ertheless# & wanted e3eryone to hear a*out it. -. 'ow# you entioned# %itness# that you were ta!en to >oca $i)h (chool. %as that the school that you were attendin) *ac! in 0??84 A. Yes# it was the sa e school. M(. ,U7: &/d li!e to as!# with the assistance o. the usher# that the witness *e shown 9rosecution E+hi*it 00# photo)raph FD01 and FD0?. A.ter showin) it to the witness# i. you could please put it on the EGM7# that would *e help.ul. -. Do you reco)nise what is shown on these photo)raphs4 A. Yes. -. %hat is it4 Pa1( 1224 A. That is the hi)h school centre in >oca. -. Than! you. %hen you were ta!en to the hi)h school centre# were there people already there4 A. Yes. -. %ere they also wo en and children4 A. Yes. Yes. These were people who were arrested on the day when the 3illa)e was attac!ed# on the Ard o. July. 7n that sa e day they were *rou)ht to

the hi)h school. -. (o they were also people .ro your 3illa)e# people you !newC is that ri)ht4 A. Yes. Yes# they were. -. Do you !now appro+i ately how any people were there all to)ether at the hi)h school with you4 A. 9erhaps a*out 56. & don/t !now e+actly. -. %as there anythin) there to sleep on4 A. There were so e !ind o. attresses# spon)e attresses# and there were also so e ar y *lan!ets. -. %ere you all placed into one roo to)ether or into separate roo s4 A. 'o. %e were all placed into one roo . -. 7n the .irst day when you were *rou)ht to the hi)h school# did anythin) happen4 A. 'o# nothin). -. 7n the second day did anythin) happen4 Pa1( 1229 A. Yes. 7n the second day# in the e3enin)# a )roup o. soldiers ca e. They entered the classroo that we were in. They stood in the iddle o. the classroo # and they were pointin) their .in)ers at )irls and wo en who were supposed to )et up and )o with the to the other roo . -. Did you reco)nise any o. those soldiers4 A. 7nly Jan!o JanBicC not the others. -. $ow any soldiers ca e into that roo 4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. & thin! there were less than ten. -. $ow any )irls did they pic! out4 A. Ei)ht# & thin!. Ei)ht. -. %ere you one o. the )irls that they pic!ed out4 A. Yes. M(. ,U7: %ith the assistance o. the usher# &/d li!e to show the witness E+hi*it 01F. This has already *een )i3en to De.ence counsel and to the "ourt. -. 7n E+hi*it 01F# do you see the na es o. the other )irls who were pic!ed out that day4 A. Yes. -. And &/d li!e .or you to read this e+hi*it to yoursel. and state the na e @@ &/ sorry. Do not state Pa1( 12)* the na eC state the nu *er or the initials ne+t to the na e o. the )irls who were ta!en out with you on that day# or pic!ed out *y the soldiers. JUDGE MUMBA: "an we ha3e the e+hi*it into e3idence# please. T$E :EG&(T:A:: [&nterpretation] This will *e E+hi*it 01F o. the 9rosecution. This is a con.idential e+hi*it. M(. ,U7: -. (o %itness# i. you see the na e o. one o. the )irls# could you please )i3e us the nu *er or the initials ne+t to her na e. A. &nitials DB# nu *er 1F# nu *er F5# nu *er ?5#

nu *er 11. -. &s there also a na e that does not ha3e a nu *er ne+t to it4 A. Yes. -. %as that )irl also ta!en out4 A. Yes. -. Does that )irl ha3e the sa e na e as your other4 A. Yes. -. But it was not your other that was ta!en outC it was another person with the sa e na e# a )irlC ri)ht4 Pa1( 12)1 A. Yes. -. %here were you ta!en a.ter the soldiers pic!ed you out4 A. &nto another roo # also a classroo # the one ne+t door# & thin!. -. %ere all o. you ta!en there to)ether4 A. Yes. -. %ere you told to )o so ewhere or do so ethin) in that roo 4 A. There were a .ew attresses there too# and they said that e3ery one o. us should stand *y one o. these attresses or sit on it. That/s what one o. the did. And the other one said that they had .ree choice# that they could choose the one they wanted. -. %hen you say Jthey#J who are you re.errin) to4 A. The other soldiers# the (er*s. -. Did you stand or )o toward a attress4 A. & went and sat down. -. Did a soldier co e to you4 A. Yes. -. $ow was he dressed4 A. &n a uni.or # an ar y uni.or . -. "ould you see i. he had a weapon4 A. They all had weapons. Pa1( 12)2 -. %hat did he do4 A. At the .irst o ent he sat ne+t to e# and then he )ot up and he said that we should )et out o. there. -. %hat did you do4 A. %hat he said. & )ot up and .ollowed hi . -. %here did he ta!e you4 A. To yet another one o. the classroo s# to the ne+t classroo . -. %as there anyone in that roo 4 A. 'o. -. %hat did he do a.ter he too! you there4 A. $e ordered e to lie down and to ta!e o.. y trousers. -. And then what did he do4 A. Then he raped e. -. & apolo)ise a)ain .or as!in) you speci.ics# *ut the "ourt needs to !now. "an you descri*e what he

did4 A. This ti e he raped e 3a)inally. -. Do you ean that he put his penis into your 3a)ina4 A. Yes. -. Did he say anythin) to you4 A. & don/t re e *er e+actly what he said to e. Pa1( 12)3 They were all spea!in) and sayin) the sa e thin)s. Always they were sayin)# JYou Musli wo en# you Bule# we/ll show you#J and that/s what they said# all o. the # the sa e thin)s. -. Do you !now how lon) this lasted# this particular incident4 A. 'ot 3ery lon). 9erhaps an hour and a hal.. -. And what happened a.terwards4 %hat did you do4 A. $e too! e *ac! to the .irst classroo where the other children and wo en were. -. Did you tell anyone at that ti e what had Bust happened to you4 A. & ne3er descri*ed what happened to e in detail to anyone. &. & wanted to say what happened# & said the worst had happened# re.errin) to rape# and .ro then onwards# throu)hout y stay in this ca p# & ne3er tal!ed to anyone a*out anythin) .ro that e3ent onwardsC & !ept silent. -. $ow did you .eel4 A. Aw.ul. There are no words in this world that could descri*e y .eelin)s. &t is the worst thin) that was happenin) to e. -. Did you see the other )irls who were pic!ed out with you4 Pa1( 12)2 A. A.terwards4 -. Yes. Yes# that/s what & ean. A. Yes# & saw the a.terwards. They were returned to this sa e classroo . -. Did they tell you what happened to the 4 A. & don/t re e *er. -. %ere you e3er ta!en out a)ain while you were at the hi)h school4 A. 'o. -. Did you see other )irls *ein) ta!en out at the hi)h school4 A. Yes# & did. -. $ow o.ten would you say other )irls were ta!en out .ro the hi)h school4 A. &t/s hard to tell. They would ta!e the out when they wanted to# when they .elt this ur)e to ta!e this out on the . But at any rate# e3ery ni)ht so e )irl would end up so eplace with the sa e soldier or with a di..erent soldier. -. And could you see when soldiers ca e to pic! out the )irls4 A. Yes. &/d see it so eti es. (o eti es & was not thereC & was in the toilet or so ewhere.

-. "an you descri*e how they pic!ed out the )irls4 Pa1( 12)) A. They would always do this *y pointin) their .in)er: You# you# or you. That/s how they did it. -. Did you see the )irls when they were returned4 A. Yes# & did. -. "ould you descri*e how they loo!ed4 A. They loo!ed dread.ul. They were all cryin). They would all *e cryin) when they ca e *ac!. (o e o. the would *e *leedin) .ro the nose. They would *e screa in)# tearin) out their hair. Di..erent thin)s. -. %hile you were at the hi)h school were you e3er hit or pro3o!ed4 A. Yes. 7n one occasion in the hallway o. the secondary school centre# in .ront o. the classroo in which we were !ept# a soldier hit e with his ri.le in the *ac!. -. Do you !now why he did that4 Did he say anythin)4 A. & thin! he as!ed where y .ather was# and & didn/t !now ysel.. They wanted to )et answers .ro e which & wasn/t a*le to )i3e. They would say# J%here is our ar y#J or thin)s li!e that. There was no Jour ar y#J so it was i possi*le .or e to answer ;uestions o. that !ind. -. $ow lon) did you ha3e to stay at the hi)h Pa1( 12)6 school4 A. & don/t !now e+actly to the day# *ut & thin! it was 00 daysC that is# the )roup that & ca e with# the )roup and ysel.. -. %hile you were at the hi)h school# did you e3er .eel .ree Bust to lea3e4 A. & didn/t dare o3e o.. the attress under the *lan!et# let alone anythin) else# and & lost all .eelin)s o. .reedo on the Ard o. July. -. %hen did you .inally lea3e the hi)h school# were you ta!en out4 A. A.ter 00 days. -. %here were you ta!en4 A. This ti e they too! us to the 9artiEan (ports $all. -. And did e3ery*ody .ro the secondary school )et ta!en to 9artiEan4 A. Yes# they did# all o. the people were ta!en there. -. "ould you descri*e what 9artiEan loo!ed li!e when you arri3ed4 A. &t was a lar)e hall# nothin) uch inside# .airly si ple. There was a sort o. sta)e at one end# a @@ raised a*o3e .loor le3el a*out a eter. 7n one side there were two roo s. 7ne o. the had pre3iously Pa1( 12)3 *een used as an o..ice and the other was .or the stora)e o. sports e;uip ent that wasn/t *ein) used. At

the *otto o. the hall# ne+t to the sta)e# there were stairs leadin) downwards where the *athroo s were and the water. But o. course there wasn/t any hot waterC there were Bust two or three toilets and one or two wash *asins. -. %as there anythin) to sleep on4 A. Yes. They were )y ats# ru**er ones# .oa ones# used .or the sports that were practised in the sports hall. And that was the only thin) that we were a*le to lie down on. -. $ow any people were with you at 9artiEan4 A. %e ca e .irst. A.ter us a s aller )roup was *rou)ht in. And & would say there were a*out 26 people there# perhaps a little ore. -. %ere all these people wo en and children4 A. Yes# e+cept two elderly en. They were a*out F6 years old. -. %ere all these people Musli s4 A. All o. the . -. %hile you were at 9artiEan# did you .eel .ree to Bust lea3e4 A. 'o. -. %hy not4 Pa1( 12)4 A. &/3e already said: & was raped# & was istreated# & was *eaten# and & wouldn/t dare e3en cross the threshold o. the 9artiEan# *ecause these soldiers o3ed around town ;uite .reely. Any one o. the could !ill e at any ti e# or do anythin) else to e# .or that atter. -. Did soldiers )o to 9artiEan also and pic! out )irls4 A. Yes# o. course they did. -. $ow o.ten did that happen4 A. Iery .re;uently. (o eti es perhaps so e*ody would not co e .or one day and then they would co e the ne+t day two or three ti es# *ut# )enerally spea!in)# it happened 3ery o.ten. -. Did the soldiers co e durin) the day or at ni)ht# or *oth4 A. %hene3er they wanted to# they ca e. -. (o was that *oth durin) the day and ni)ht4 A. Yes. -. %ere these the sa e soldiers that ca e to the secondary school4 A. They ca e and any# any others ca e too. -. %ere there so e soldiers who ca e to 9artiEan any ti es# repeatedly4 A. Yes. Yes. Pa1( 12)9 -. %hat would you do when the soldiers ca e4 A. & would usually try and hide# perhaps in the la3atory or under a *lan!et# *ut & wasn/t always success.ul. M(. ,U7: %ith the assistance o. the usher# & would li!e to show this witness 9rosecution E+hi*it 00# photo)raphs F8?1 and F8??# and then FA8F and FA81.

-. >irst loo!in) at photo)raph F8?1 and F8??# do you reco)nise what/s in those photo)raphs4 A. Yes. -. "an you descri*e what it is4 A. Yes. That/s the 9artiEan (ports $all. M(. ,U7: "an the witness now *e shown photo)raphs FA8F and FA81. -. Do you reco)nise that4 A. Yes. -. "an you descri*e what that is4 A. That/s the %" in the 9artiEan (ports $all# the only one we had at our disposal. -. &s that where you would try to hide when the soldiers ca e4 A. (o eti es# yes. -. Than! you. %hen you would hide# would you *e .ound anyway4 A. Yes. Yes# that happened too. Pa1( 126* -. Did your other also hide4 A. 9ro*a*ly she did. -. Did your other !now where you hid4 A. Yes# she !new. -. %as there one ti e when your other was .orced to co e .ind you4 A. Yes. That happened when & was in the %" that was on the photo)raph you showed e a o ent a)o. -. Do you !now what happened# why she ca e to .ind you4 A. Two soldiers too! away indi3idual nu *er 1F and went o.. with her. & thin! they also too! away all the other )irls .ro the 9artiEan (ports @@ that they had already *een ta!en away# e+cept .or e# and then & tried to hide and went down to the la3atory. $owe3er# this person nu *er 1F returned with the # and with another soldier# to loo! .or e. -. And your understandin) is that they were loo!in) .or you and that/s why your other ca e to )et youC is that ri)ht4 A. Yes. -. %as it your understandin) that the soldier was loo!in) .or you4 A. 7ne o. the was# yes. -. %ere you ta!en out *y soldiers while you were Pa1( 1261 at 9artiEan4 A. Yes. -. Are you a*le to say how o.ten you were ta!en out or how any ti es4 A. & don/t !now e+actly how any# *ut it was o.ten. -. %as it e3ery ni)ht# e3ery day4 A. 'ot e3ery ni)ht and e3ery day. (o eti es not .or two days. But then & would *e ta!en up e3ery day .or three days# that !ind o. thin). -. %hen you were ta!en out# how lon) were you !ept away4

A. That depended too# depended on the situation. (o eti es .or a short period# Bust to let the do what they wanted to with e# and at other ti es in .lats o. un!nown indi3iduals# it would last .or three days. & would *e shut up .or three days. -. %hene3er you were ta!en out# were you also raped4 A. Yes# e3ery ti e. -. And when you say Jrape J# do you ean what happened to you at the hi)h school# the sa e thin)4 A. Yes. E3ery other ti e it was the sa e thin)# e3ery ti e a.ter that it was always the sa e thin). -. Do you re e *er the .irst ti e that you were Pa1( 1262 ta!en out .ro 9artiEan4 A. Yes. -. Do you re e *er when it was4 A. 9erhaps a day or two later# a.ter our arri3al in the 9artiEan. -. Do you re e *er who too! you out4 A. Yes. -. %ho was it4 A. &t was what & tal!ed a*out a o ent a)o# when & was in the %". Two soldiers who & did not !now ca e# and a on) the was Horan Iu!o3ic a)ain. -. %hen you say a)ain# do you ean the sa e person who raped you at Bu! BiBela4 A. Yes. -. Do you re e *er i. he was ar ed at that ti e4 A. Yes# he was. -. %here did he ta!e you4 A. $e too! e to an apart ent. & assu e that it had *een a*andoned# *ecause & didn/t see any*ody there. %hen he *rou)ht e to that apart ent# he too! e into one o. the roo s# which was to the le.t@hand side o. the hallway. There was a *i) *ed there .or sleepin) in. & don/t re e *er e+actly whether there was a cup*oard or what there was there# *ut it was a *edroo . And then it happened once a)ainC & was raped Pa1( 1263 a)ain. -. Did Horan Iu!o3ic say anythin) to you4 A. %ell# yes. They would always say thin)s. But once he had done what he was a*out @@ & ean# once he had raped e# when he .inished rapin) e# he sat down and lit a ci)arette# and he said that he could perhaps do ore# uch ore# *ut that & was a*out the sa e a)e as his dau)hter# and so he wouldn/t do anythin) ore .or the o ent. -. "an you @@ would you *e a*le to reco)nise Horan Iu!o3ic today4 A. Yes# & could. -. &/ )oin) to as! you to loo! around the courtroo # and please ta!e your ti e. Get us !now i. you reco)nise so e*ody here who was the Horan Iu!o3ic you ha3e descri*ed. A. &. & loo! .ro the door )oin) down# the .irst

person ne+t to the )uard with dar! hair# is Horan Iu!o3ic. -. To help clari.y the record# could you Bust descri*e so ethin) he/s wearin)4 A. $e is wearin) a li)ht *lue shirt# a dar! *lue suit. M(. ,U7: Your $onour# ay the record re.lect that the witness has pointed out the accused# Horan Pa1( 1262 Iu!o3ic. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. M(. ,U7: -. Did you see Horan Iu!o3ic a)ain at 9artiEan4 A. A.ter this e3ent & can/t re e *er e+actly whether & did or not. -. %ere you ta!en out o. 9artiEan a)ain4 A. Yes. -. Get/s )o throu)h the speci.ic incidents# the ones that you re e *er. A. Do you want e to start tellin) how it happened ysel.4 -. Yes. &. you re e *er the order in which it happened# start .ro @@ do it that way# *ut i. you don/t re e *er the order# then Bust descri*e the incidents. A. The ne+t ti e was when & was ta!en to a house. The house was opposite the *us stop in >oca# the *us station in >oca. There was only one *us station and e3ery*ody !new it. A )roup o. soldiers too! e o..# alon) with three other )irls .ro the 9artiEan (ports $all. They too! us into a house# which was @@ how shall & descri*e it4 &t was all ransac!ed# thin)s all o3er the place. You could see that no*ody li3ed there. And the .irst thin) they ordered us to do Pa1( 126) was to tidy the house and they said they/d )o o.. to see to so e *usiness and that they/d co e *ac!. And as .ar as so e cleanin) thin)s were concerned# we didn/t )et anythin)# *ut we Bust had to a!e do and clear the place up. They went o..# and when they ca e *ac! there were ore o. the . They were people that & hadn/t !nown or seen *e.ore that# and there were so e o. the who weren/t .ro >oca at all. And they raped us there. Each one o. the raped the )irl he wanted to rape# and as any ti es as he wanted to rape her. E3ery*ody would pic! and choose. They would say# J"o e on# you.J or JGet/s )o upstairs#J *ecause the house had roo s on the )round .loor and on the .irst .loor. (o we would *e down there until they too! us o.. to rape us# to another roo . And whene3er they wanted to# they pic!ed the )irl they wanted to and raped her. & thin! that & was raped there three ti es# perhaps ore. & can/t re e *er e+actly how any ti es# *ut it was dread.ul. They would ta!e their turns# one a.ter the other. They would ha3e *rea!s o. 05 inutes or ay*e one hour# as lon) as they wanted# *ut there

were terri*le thin)s )oin) on there. There were old people there. They were dirty people and drun!en people# and they would ta!e y .riend o... $e would Pa1( 1266 rape her and then rape e. But they did their *est to rape all o. us# that each one o. the raped each one o. us in turn. -. $ow any di..erent soldiers raped you that day4 A. %ell# & said a o ent a)o that & counted up to three. All three o. the were di..erent. & was raped three ti es *y three di..erent en# not *y one person. But they didn/t pay any attention o. how uch y *ody could ta!e. They did what they wanted until a*solute e+haustion. &t was a*solutely terri*le. -. $ow any soldiers would you say were there4 A. %ell# today & can/t re e *er the nu *er e+actly# *ut & do !now that there were a lot o. the . 9erhaps a little less than ten# *ut there were ore o. the than there were us. And they too! turns. (o two o. the would )o o.. .or a period o. ti e and then so e others would co e *ac! or they would co e *ac!. There was nothin) de.inite. That was how it went. -. And you entioned that so e soldiers were .ro >oca *ut others were not. Do you !now where the soldiers who were not .ro >oca were .ro 4 A. 7ne o. the ones who raped e in the roo # in that sa e house# he told e that he was .ro Bileca and that his na e was 'edBo. Pa1( 1263 -. Did any o. the soldiers ention which *ri)ade they were .ro 4 A. &n that house & can/t re e *er. & don/t !now e+actly. & can/t say. -. The other )irls who were ta!en with you# could you tell us their nu *ers# please4 A. 1F# DB# and & thin! the third was nu *er F5# *ut ... -. But you/re not sure a*out that one4 A. &/ not ;uite sure a*out the third. &/ certain one hundred per cent a*out the .irst two# thou)h. -. %ere you returned to 9artiEan4 A. & didn/t understand your ;uestion. -. (orry. A.ter what you descri*ed happened in that house# were you ta!en *ac! to 9artiEan4 A. Yes. Yes# & was. -. Do you re e *er when that was4 A. & thin! it was in the ornin)# *ut & can/t say .or sure. -. "ould you tell us a*out the ne+t ti e that you were ta!en out .ro 9artiEan4 A. Yes. & apolo)ise .or not e+plainin) that properly in y state ent in the order that it happened# *ut it was in the house that & didn/t ention in y Pa1( 1264 state ent. & don/t !now why & didn/t ention it in y

state ent. 9ro*a*ly & was too ner3ous and o3erwrou)ht and upset. -. %hy don/t you tell us a*out it now4 A. Yes. Another )roup ca e. The )roup ca e a)ainC the )roup o. soldiers ca e a)ain# and they too! away two other people to)ether with e# at least. 7ne o. the was nu *er F5# *ut &/ not ;uite sure who the other person was# which one she was. This house was also an a*andoned Musli house# a terri*le ess inside e3erywhere. There was clothin) all o3er the place# the .urniture had *een @@ was a sha *les. A soldier too! e up to the .irst .loor# into a roo there on the upper storey# and & re e *er that there was a *ed there and so e clothes and other thin)s all o3er it. $e raped e there. $e was the only one who raped e there# *ut he repeated it any ti es. -. Do you !now who that soldier was4 A. 'o. -. %here was this house4 A. The house# i. you could @@ appro+i ately @@ & could e+plainC & don/t !now how to do it# thou)h. -. May*e you could Bust tell us what part o. town it was in. A. Appro+i ately it was *etween 9riBe!a "arsiBa Pa1( 1269 and GornBe 9olBe. & don/t !now e+actly which nei)h*ourhood o. the two & entioned it actually *elon)ed to# *ut it was there .or sure. -. "ould you descri*e the ne+t ti e that you were ta!en .ro 9artiEan4 A. Yes. That ti e & was ta!en to Brod. -. &/ sorry. %here were you ta!en4 A. & was ta!en to a nei)h*ourhood that was called Brod. -. And what happened there4 A. & was ta!en *y a an. & !new hi *e.ore the war. & saw hi o.ten. $e was called Gica# or rather his nic!na e was Gica. $e too! e to an apart ent# that & thin! was his own# at Brod. %hen & arri3ed there# nothin) happened i ediately# *ut & was so .a ishedC & was so e+hausted. & Bust lay in a corner. & don/t !now. & did not .eel ri)htC & didn/t .eel nor al. & saw ;uite a .ew )irls who were *rou)ht .ro MilBe3ina# ,alino3i!# and the surroundin) area. A on) the & only reco)nised a school ate o. ine. That is person nu *er 0F5 here. & did not tal! to her a*out the war and a*out what was happenin) to her or to e. %e chatted a*out uni portant thin)s. There were ;uite a .ew soldiers who ca e and Pa1( 123* went. They were co in) and )oin) so o.ten. & was raped there too. -. $ow lon) were you !ept there4 A. Three days. -. 7n which o. those days were you raped4 A. & thin! on the second day.

-. %ho raped you4 A. & was raped *y an ac;uaintance o. ine# <redacted= <redacted=. $e !new e 3ery well. %e too! the sa e *us e3ery day. $e went to wor! and & went to school. And he was certainly 86 years older than &. $e was a arried an. -. Did he say anythin) to you when he raped you4 A. &t was terri*le. $e lau)hed. & had the .eelin) that he was doin) this precisely *ecause he !new e# to in.lict e3en ore e3il on e. & don/t !now e+actly. -. "an you descri*e another ti e when you were ta!en out o. 9artiEan and raped4 A. Yes. Yes. Another ti e a (er* too! e to his other/s apart ent @@ his apart ent too @@ also in Brod# *ut it/s not the sa e apart ent# it/s not the sa e an# and it/s not e3en the sa e nei)h*ourhood. 9erhaps it/s a !ilo etre away. Pa1( 1231 $e too! e to his other/s apart ent# and he as!ed e to introduce ysel. as a (er*# to say that y na e was <redacted=# to say that & was .ro Usti!olina# that @@ & don/t !now @@ that y other and .ather were also (er*s. And that/s what & had to do. & !ept ;uiet all the ti e. $e tal!ed .or e. $e tal!ed a*out so e people .ro Usti!olina# a*out these parents# who he said had to *e ine durin) this ni)ht that & was spendin) with hi . %e sat there .or a*out two hours li!e that. They e3en *rou)ht e so e *randy to drin!. & ne3er dran! alcohol# especially at that ti e# when & wasn/t e3en 0F years old. They !new that 3ery well# that Musli wo en did not drin! alcohol# .or the ost part. And he chan)ed y na e. $e wanted e to *e his (er* )irl that ni)ht. %e sat .or a*out two hours that way. $e did the tal!in) ost o. the ti eC & !ept ;uiet. There was no li)ht at that apart ent at the ti e. A candle had *een lit. $e too! e to his roo . $e raped e .our hours# .or sure# in succession. 9erhaps he ade 05@ or 86@ inute *rea!s# whate3er suited hi . At any rate# he was so terri*le. $e was so terri*le. $e did such thin)s that & cannot e3en e+plain the . & had no place to ta!e a *ath. & couldn/t e3en wash y hands or so ethin) li!e that. Pa1( 1232 -. Do you !now who that person was who did this to you4 A. &n 0??8# & !new the na e# *ecause his other spo!e .reely in .ront o. e# *ecause she thou)ht & was (er*. & can/t re e *er today. -. %as he also a soldier4 A. Yes. Yes# he was a soldier. -. And Bust to clari.y# all the other soldiers who too! you out# were they (er*s as well4 A. &n3aria*ly. (er*s# and only (er*s. -. 'ow# this particular incident when you spo!e

with in3esti)ators with the Tri*unal# you did not descri*e that# did you4 A. That is correct. -. Do you !now why not# speci.ically4 A. & was asha ed to ad it to people that that ni)ht & had to use a di..erent na e# that & had to *e so eone else. -. Did you do that .reely# or were you .orced to4 A. & was .orced to. -. "ould you descri*e .or us now another ti e when you were ta!en out o. 9artiEan4 A. Yes. This happened a)ain on the 8nd o. Au)ust# 0??8. A)ain# three )irls and & were ta!en to a Pa1( 1233 house in AladEa# in the nei)h*ourhood o. AladEa. 'ear*y was a os;ue *y the sa e na e# AladEa. & thin! the house used to *elon) to a Musli an# a tailor. At that ti e there was no one in it *ut (er* soldiers and us who were *rou)ht in. That/s the way it was. >irst we were ta!en to a roo upstairs in that house. That/s where they sat and that/s where we sat. %hen & say Jthey#J &/ re.errin) to (er* soldiers. A on) the were those who too! us away and those who were waitin) .or us there. At the .irst o ent & sat to)ether with the )irls that were ta!en with e. %e tried to tal! a*out so ethin). $owe3er @@ & do not re e *er e+actly what was the reason .or this. 9erhaps & lau)hed a *it or so ethin). >or so e reason# one o. the (er* soldiers didn/t li!e this. $e said to e# J"o e on# you. (ince you ha3e such a nice lau)h# co e with e.J $e too! e to another roo # a roo that was also there on that sa e .loor. $e raped e on a so.a# underneath the window. -. %ho was that person4 A. That was ,unarac# nic!na ed Ha)a. -. Did you !now hi *e.ore the war4 A. 'o. -. Are you a*le to reco)nise hi today4 Pa1( 1232 A. Yes. -. &/ )oin) to as! you to ta!e your ti e and loo! around the courtroo # and please let us !now i. you see the person that you/3e re.erred to as nic!na ed Ha)a ,unarac. A. & see hi . -. "ould you please point hi out to us# please# perhaps *y what !ind o. clothin) he/s wearin). A. $e has a pin! shirt# a ulticoloured tie# a dar! suit. &. & said that Horan Iu!o3ic is the .irst person up there# then he is the last person on the other side. M(. ,U7: May the record re.lect that the witness has identi.ied the accused# Dra)olBu* ,unarac. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. M(. ,U7:

-. Did he say anythin) to you while he raped you4 A. $e did say so ethin) .or sure# *ut today# ei)ht years later# and a.ter so any rapes# & cannot re e *er. & only !now that he was 3ery .orce.ul# that he wanted to hurt e as uch as possi*le. But he could ne3er hurt e as uch as y soul always hurt e. -. %hat happened a.ter ,unarac raped you4 A. $e too! e *ac! to the .irst roo where we Pa1( 123) all sat# as i. nothin) had happened. -. %as he wearin) a uni.or that day4 A. 7n that day# they were all in uni.or . -. Do you re e *er what ti e o. day or ni)ht that was4 A. &t was in the e3enin)# perhaps an hour or two *e.ore the AladEa dEa iBa was destroyed .or the last ti e in >oca. -. And where were you when the AladEa dEa iBa was *lown up4 A. &n that sa e house where & was *rou)ht on the 8nd o. Au)ust. & was still there. -. $ow do you !now that the os;ue was *lown up at that o ent4 A. %hen & ca e# & saw that the os;ue still e+istedC howe3er# it had *een da a)ed. At the o ent when it was *lown up# the )lass on the windows started to *rea!. The (er* soldiers started to curse# to yell. & thin! that & was screa in) too. &t was aw.ul. &t was 3ery close to that house. -. Did the (er* soldiers react a.terwards di..erently4 A. & thin! that they said that no one had told the that that ni)ht the os;ue would *e destroyed# so they were there with us in the house. They told us how Pa1( 1236 they attac!ed or too! away so e car or so ethin) li!e that @@ & don/t !now e+actly @@ .ro so e Musli s# that they were at the .ront line. -. Did they say they had Bust *een at the .ront line# or could you ay*e clari.y that a little *it4 A. Yes. They said that they had Bust *een at the .ront line# that they had Bust returned .ro the .ront line# that they had 3an;uished the Musli s. That/s what they were sayin)# thin)s in that sense. & did not dare as! anythin)C & Bust heard what they were sayin). And they *oasted how they had )athered a lot o. )old and other 3alua*les .ro Musli s. -. Do you re e *er i. they said where they had Bust *een# & ean what they re.er to *y J.ront lineJ4 A. They thou)ht they were pro*a*ly in so e !ind o. co *at. They called that co *at# *ut that is not co *at a)ainst unar ed people. They would Bust co e# !ill who they !illed# raped who they raped# torched houses# too! away 3alua*les. %ith y 3ery own eyes# & saw y own *urnt house. -. Did these soldiers say where they ca e .ro #

where they were .ro ori)inally4 A. There were se3eral o. the . (o e o. the ca e .ro 'i!sic# .ro Montene)ro. They said so the sel3es. Pa1( 1233 -. Did they say anythin) a*out who was in char)e4 A. Today# & can no lon)er re e *er that. -. %ere you raped any other ti e at that house# & ean that sa e day# that sa e ni)ht4 A. Yes. The .irst ti e & was raped in that house# that/s what & Bust descri*ed. That happened in an upstairs roo . $owe3er# the second ti e & was raped# now & cannot re e *er whether this second person who raped e .irst too! e to this roo upstairs. & thin! he did. Then since there were a lot o. people and then these other people were supposed to rape these other )irls# he too! e to this wor!shop that & already descri*ed in y state ent. &t loo!ed li!e a s all roo . &t was attached to the house# to the )round .loor o. the house# that is. Thin)s were scattered all around inside as well. & went down there with hi . & thin! that he *elon)ed to so e o. these other *ri)ades# these *ri)ades .ro Montene)ro or so ethin) li!e that. & could reach that conclusion on the *asis o. his accent# the way he spo!e. &t was di..erent .ro Bosnian. $e was old. $e was aw.ul. $e had a !ni.e. $e said to e# JYou will see# you Musli . & a )oin) to draw a cross on your *ac!. &/ )oin) to *aptise all o. you. You/re now )oin) to *e Pa1( 1234 (er*s.J And any thin)s & could not possi*ly descri*e today. $e threatened e so uch with the !ni.e that & thou)ht & would lose y li.e any inute. $owe3er# he decided to rape e a.ter all# in a *east@li!e anner. $e raped e so hard that later & saw that & was *leedin)# and e3erythin) hurt e: y sto ach# y *ac!# y le)sC e3erythin) ached. %hat hurt e ost o. all was that he was certainly so e A6 years older than & was. $e was pro*a*ly y .ather/s a)e. -. You entioned that you were *rou)ht to this house with so e other )irls. "ould you tell us their nu *ers# please4 A. DB# 1F# person nu *er F5# *ut whether there were other )irls too# that & cannot re e *er e+actly today. -. %ere you ta!en *ac! to 9artiEan that ni)ht4 A. Yes# a.ter idni)ht# & thin!. -. %ere you ta!en *ac! alone or with other )irls4 A. Alone. -. Did you e3er see those other )irls a)ain while you were in >oca# the three who you entioned Bust now4 A. 'e3er a)ain. Pa1( 1239

M(. ,U7: Your $onour# & ha3e so e ore ;uestions# *ut & see that we ha3e co e on our 0 oKcloc! *rea!. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. %e will ha3e the lunch *rea!# and will continue this a.ternoon at 0DA6 hours. @@@ Guncheon recess ta!en at 08.5? p. . Pa1( 124* @@@ 7n resu in) at 8.81 p. . JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. %e/ll continue with e+a ination@in@chie. *y the 9rosecution. M(. ,U7: Than! you# Your $onour. -. %itness# a.ter the ni)ht that you were ta!en to the house in AladEa and returned to 9artiEan# how uch lon)er did you re ain at 9artiEan4 A. Ten days. -. Durin) those ten days did soldiers continue to co e and ta!e out )irls4 A. Yes. -. Did they co e ore or less o.ten than *e.ore4 A. The sa e# & thin!. -. %ere you ta!en out a)ain a.ter that4 A. 'o. -. Durin) the entire ti e that you were detained at 9artiEan# did you see the person identi.ied on the piece o. paper *e.ore you as D1 *ein) ta!en out4 A. Yes. -. Do you recall speci.ically *y who she was ta!en out4 A. Yes. &t was the chie. o. (U9 at the ti e in >oca# Dra)an Ga)o3ic. -. Durin) the ti e you were at 9artiEan# did you see the person identi.ied as ?5 *ein) ta!en out4 Pa1( 1241 A. Yes. -. Do you recall speci.ically *y who and when she was ta!en out4 A. &t/s a little di..icult to e+plain. E3ery*ody was ta!en out 3ery .re;uently. But this particular person was ta!en out one or two ni)hts *e.ore we le.t 9artiEan. And as she hersel. told e# this )roup o. (er* soldiers who had co e in .ro (er*ia too! her to Bu! BiBela. & thin! they were acco odated there. That/s where they were to spend the ni)ht. (o they too! her up there. -. Did she tell you what happened to her there4 A. Yes# she did. -. "an you tell us 3ery *rie.ly what she told you happened to her there4 A. (he told e that when she was *rou)ht there @@ & don/t !now how to e+plain this @@ that she was raped so any ti es. (he told e 066. (he said a hundred ti es# *ut she lost count. (he said that .i)ure li!e ordinary people tend to )i3e a .i)ure. & don/t !now @@ & can/t e+plain how# *ut they too! turns. (he was raped all the ti e one *y one. They

too! turns# without stoppin). And she said that so eti es she was raped *y three soldiers at one and the sa e ti e# at the sa e ti e. Pa1( 1242 -. %hen were you .inally a*le to lea3e 9artiEan4 A. %e le.t on the 0Ath o. Au)ust# 0??8. -. $ow were you a*le to lea3e4 A. %ell# the day *e.ore we le.t# people .ro the (U9 ca e and as!ed .or a list o. na es. They told us that we would ha3e to lea3e# that they would or)anise *uses to ta!e us away# and they printed so e per its .or us# e+it per its# with our na es on the and our dates o. *irth. -. %ere you )i3en a reason .or your lea3in)4 A. & heard that the reason was that it was thou)ht that the &nternational :ed "ross "o ittee i)ht *e co in) to >oca# and that is why & assu ed we had to disappear .ro there. -. Did you# in .act# lea3e 9artiEan on the *uses that were or)anised .or you *y the (U94 A. Yes. %e went *y *uses. & thin! they were or)anised *y the (U9. -. 'ow# in addition to the incidents that you/3e descri*ed .or us in court today when you were raped# were there other incidents durin) this ti e period when you were raped that you are not a*le to recall the details4 A. & didn/t ;uite )et your ;uestion. %hat you ean4 Pa1( 1243 -. You/3e descri*ed a nu *er o. instances where you were raped# you were ta!en to speci.ic places and raped *y speci.ic people. %ere there other @@ do you recall now that there were other ti es that you were ta!en out and raped# *ut you cannot pro3ide details4 A. & thin! there were other ti es# yes. & wasn/t ta!en o.. to other places# *ut at the places that & was ta!en to# & was raped a nu *er o. ti es. And when & )a3e y state ent# on the day & )a3e y state ent# it was actually the .irst ti e that & had e3er told any*ody that# and it was 3ery di..icult .or e# and &/ sure & didn/t say e3erythin) that had happened to e. -. The person that you identi.ied in court earlier today as ,unarac# nic!na ed Ha)a# did you see hi any other ti e while you were !ept at 9artiEan4 A. & thin! & did# *ut & don/t !now where e+actly. -. Do you recall what he was doin) those ti es4 A. %ell# ostly he would co e to ta!e out wo en and )irls. That/s the only reason they 3isited us. -. At 9artiEan# you ean4 A. Yes. -. Do you recall ,unarac# nic!na ed Ha)a# *ein) with another soldier# whose na e you !now# or nic!na e4 Pa1( 1242 A. & don/t !now e+actly.

-. Do you recall *ein) shown a photo *oard# a )roup o. photo)raphs# on the A0st o. March# 0??1# at a police station4 A. Yes. -. Do you recall pic!in) out a photo)raph o. a person4 A. Yes. -. %as the an whose photo)raph you pic!ed out the sa e as the an you identi.ied today in court as ,unarac# !nown as Ha)a4 A. & can/t re e *er e+actly. & don/t re e *er the photo)raph 3ery well. -. Do you re e *er tellin) the in3esti)ator .ro the Tri*unal at that ti e that you thou)ht that this was the house in AladEa# that it was at the house in AladEa at the ti e when you saw the an in the photo)raph you pic!ed out# that you were not sure whether you saw this an at 9artiEan# and that you were not sure i. this an hi sel. se+ually a*used you4 Do you re e *er sayin) that4 A. Yes# & do re e *er. -. And a & correct to say that at that ti e you were uncertain a*out these particular details when you pic!ed out the photo)raph4 Pa1( 124) A. Yes. That/s correct. Yes. -. But are you certain today that the person you pointed out in the courtroo as ,unarac# !nown as Ha)a# was the sa e an who raped you in the house in AladEa4 A. Yes# &/ sure today. -. "an you e+plain why you/re sure today# *ut were unsure then4 A. Yes. & thin! it/s 3ery understanda*le# *ecause & was raped *y so any people# so any di..erent .aces# that all the .aces ha3e *eco e i+ed up in y ind. But today# when & saw hi here in the courtroo # & reco)nised hi strai)ht away and &/ ;uite certain# and now & re e *er that it was hi C it was ;uite certainly hi . -. Do you recall *ein) shown photo)raphs and *ein) as!ed to identi.y Horan Iu!o3ic in (epte *er 0???4 A. Yes. That/s ri)ht. -. Did you tell the Tri*unal in3esti)ators that you !new Horan Iu!o3ic .ro *e.ore the war4 A. Yes. & said so on that occasion. -. %hat did you ean *y that when you said that4 A. &t/s di..icult .or e to e+plain that now# *ut & thou)ht & !new hi .ro so ewhere# *ecause his .ace# when & saw hi .or the .irst ti e# was 3ery Pa1( 1246 .a iliar to e. 9erhaps o3er the passa)e o. years# .ro all the .ear and e3erythin) that has happened to e# perhaps that/s why & said what & said and how & said it then. But &/ certain that & did see hi around so ewhere *e.ore that. -. And when you were shown those photo)raphs#

were you a*le to identi.y Horan Iu!o3ic in so e o. the photo)raphs *ut not in others4 A. Yes. That/s ri)ht. -. %as there a particular reason .or that4 A. E3ery ti e & said so ethin)# & didn/t want to say anythin) that & wasn/t 066 per cent certain o.. & didn/t want to lie. 7nly when & was a*solutely certain# when & had .ull recollection o. what had happened to e# then & would say so ethin)C otherwise# & wouldn/t. -. Are you a*solutely certain that the person you identi.ied in court today as Horan Iu!o3ic is the sa e person who raped you at the Bu! BiBela and also when you were detained at 9artiEan4 A. Yes# & a . -. A.ter you le.t >oca# were you a*le to see a doctor4 A. Yes# & was. -. %hen was that4 Pa1( 1243 A. & don/t !now the e+act date# o. course. &t was a.ter & had le.t >oca & went to see a doctor# *ecause the whole ti e & was in >oca# & ne3er had y periods. 7. course# & was a.raid o. what i)ht ha3e happened# and when & went# it turned out that & had an in.la ation o. the o3aries and y uterus# and & didn/t )et y periods. And the doctor e+plained to e that that was out o. .ear. And then later on# two or three onths later# y periods ca e *ac! and *eca e re)ular a)ain. -. A.ter you le.t >oca# and in the years *etween then and now# did you e3er )o to see a psychiatrist or a psycholo)ist4 A. 7nce. -. %hen was that4 A. A .ew years a)o# perhaps two years a)o. 'ot recently. -. %as there a speci.ic reason that you .elt you needed to see! the help o. a pro.essional4 A. 7. course. There were o ents when & .elt so *ad. All y .ears ca e *ac! to e. & .elt psycholo)ically unwell. & would )et 3ery e+cited and 3ery upset# and this .ear would !eep co in) *ac! to e. -. And did that 3isit to the psychiatrist or psycholo)ist a..ect your e ory in any way whatsoe3er4 Pa1( 1244 A. The doctor & went to see# the psychiatrist or psycholo)ist# & didn/t tell hi any details. & didn/t tal! to hi a*out the details that &/ tal!in) a*out here today. %e Bust had a con3ersationC that was all. & don/t really !now. M(. ,U7: That/s all the ;uestions .ro the 9rosecution# Your $onours. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Any cross@e+a ination .ro counsel4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. & shall *e)in# and then y collea)ues will

ha3e so e o. their own ;uestions a.ter that "ross@e+a ined *y Mr. Jo3ano3ic: -. Good a.ternoon. "ould you tell us whether you re e *er when you .irst ca e into contact with the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal4 A. &t was in Au)ust 0??5. -. "an you tell us how any ti es a.ter that you had contacts with the or indi3iduals wor!in) .or the 4 A. Three or .our ti es# & *elie3e. -. You )a3e a state ent e3ery ti e4 A. & thin! & did# so ethin) e3ery ti e. -. And that state ent was read out to you e3ery ti e# and you !now what you stated4 Pa1( 1249 A. Yes. -. You said a o ent a)o that you would say only thin)s that you were 066 per cent sure o.4 A. Yes. & didn/t understand. -. You said a o ent a)o that you always say only what you are 066 per cent certain o.4 A. Yes. -. &. & understand you correctly# all the state ents that you ha3e )i3en to date and the testi ony here today *e.ore this Trial "ha *er# they are all 066 per cent correct# are they4 A. %ell# it doesn/t ean that e3erythin) need *e 066 per cent. There i)ht *e sli)ht di..erences. But it doesn/t ean that & was lyin). &t was *ecause & was upset when & tal!ed to the people .ro the Tri*unal. -. %ell# & !now that there i)ht *e sli)ht discrepancies# and in as!in) you y ;uestions &/ )oin) to point out so e su*stantial di..erences. And that is why & as!ed you the ;uestion that & did a o ent a)o. %hat you stated in your state ents earlier on# and what you said here today# that is all correct# *ecause you tell the truth4 A. Yes. & a spea!in) the truth e+clusi3ely. That/s ri)ht. -. Than! you. &/ interested in the .ollowin): Pa1( 129* Accordin) to the in.or ation & ha3e# you ha3e )i3en .i3e state ents to date to the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal# and one o. those state ents @@ M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onours# is the e orandu which we recei3ed yesterday# which y collea)ue entioned @@ it was the con3ersation with the witness on the 8Fth o. March# 8666# that is to say# a .ew days a)o. & *e) your pardon. &t was the 82th o. March and the docu ent was co piled on the 8Fth o. March. -. &s that correct4 A. Yes. -. Iery well. &/ now interested in the .ollowin). Be.ore & )o on to that# would the usher show the witness the state ent in the BL"L( lan)ua)e which

she )a3e on the 00th o. @@ that is to say# on the A6th and A0st o. Au)ust# 0??5. T$E :EG&(T:A:: [&nterpretation] This docu ent will *e ar!ed D0F# 9rosecution E+hi*it D0F. &/ sorry# De.ence E+hi*it D0F. De.ence E+hi*it D0F. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] "ould the witness *e shown the state ent she )a3e on the 5th o. (epte *er 0??5# please. &t is the BL"L( 3ersion a)ain. Pa1( 1291 T$E :EG&(T:A:: [&nterpretation] This docu ent will *e De.ence E+hi*it D01. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] -. Are those the state ents which you )a3e4 Do you reco)nise the 4 A. Yes# & do. -. & apolo)ise. & didn/t hear your answer. A. Yes# & do. -. At the end o. those state ents there is a certi.icate which you si)ned# a witness ac!nowled)e ent. $a3e you )ot that ac!nowled)e ent *e.ore you4 A. Yes. -. %as it clear to you# when you read this ac!nowled)e ent# that you could *e called upon to testi.y *e.ore this Trial "ha *er4 A. Yes. -. %hen did you decide to tell the truth4 And ay & re.er you *ac!# and & will ;uote# to the *e)innin) o. your state ent# or around the *e)innin) o. your state ent# where you say that you decided @@ JUDGE MUMBA: %hich one4 Because there are two. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] & a thin!in) a*out today/s testi ony# at the *e)innin) o. her Pa1( 1292 testi ony here today. -. At the *e)innin) o. your testi ony today# you said that you had decided to tell the whole truth when you read the sole n declaration *e.ore this Trial "ha *er and when you were in3ited to attend these proceedin)s. A. A on) others# yes. -. "ould you e+plain to e what you ean *y Ja on) other thin)sJ4 A. & said this *ecause what @@ the thin)s that & added today lin!ed to the e3ents in Bu! BiBela# i. that is what you ean. & Bust couldn/t utter those thin)s at that ti e. They wouldn/t pass y lips. -. Does that ean that# when you ade your state ents# there was one truth# and there is a di..erent truth today4 A. 'o. E3erythin) & ha3e said is the truth. -. %hen4 A. %hat do you ean# when4 -. %hen you )a3e your state ents and when you tal!ed to us here today# is e3erythin) the truth4

A. E3erythin) & said today is the truth. & Bust passed o3er certain thin)s *e.ore# and today & )a3e an e+planation why & did not say the then. -. $ow any ti es ha3e you passed o3er and !ept Pa1( 1293 silent a*out thin)s4 A. & don/t understand your ;uestion. -. & as!ed you: $ow any ti es# to the present day# ha3e you !ept silent a*out what you told us here today4 A. & said that .or the .irst ti e here today. -. & !now you said this .or the .irst ti e today# and that is precisely why & a as!in) you. But you did not say these thin)s the .irst ti e today. A. & said this at the Tri*unal on the 8Fth or 81th o. March. & don/t !now e+actly. -. That/s it# then4 A. Yes. -. & would li!e to !now the .ollowin): &n your state ent @@ in your state ents# the plural# that you )a3e to indi3iduals .ro the 9rosecution# you descri*ed so e 3ery *rutal scenes that you e+perienced. &s that true4 Generally spea!in). A. Yes. & descri*ed what happened to e# what & e+perienced. That is true. -. Iery well. %hy# then# were you not a*le to descri*e this speci.ic e3ent4 A. 9recisely *ecause it was so speci.ic. -. And why was that e3ent ore speci.ic than all the other e3ents4 Pa1( 1292 A. &t was y .irst and ost pain.ul e+perience. All o. the are 3ery pain.ul# *ut that was the .irst one# the one that ade e ost .ri)htened. -. %ell# precisely *ecause it was the .irst ti e that so ethin) li!e that had e3er happened to you4 A. &. you can/t understand e# let e put it this way. & was asha ed to say. -. And you weren/t asha ed to say all the other thin)s4 A. 'o# it wasn/t# *ecause & li3ed throu)h the all. & e+perienced all this. &t happened to e. -. & don/t understand you. You were not asha ed to say all the other thin)s# *ecause you e+perienced the # and you e+perienced this too4 A. Yes# that is correct. -. And you were asha ed to say so4 A. Yes# at that ti e & was una*le to tal! a*out it. -. &. & understand you correctly# you were not a*le to tal! a*out it .or .i3e years4 A. Yes# that/s ri)ht. -. %ell# let us o3e on. Today# when you were e+a ined *y y learned collea)ue# you were as!ed a 3ery speci.ic ;uestion related to the anner in which the e3ent ceased to e3ol3e# that .irst speci.ic e3ent. Pa1( 129)

%hen did you say that4 %hen did you e+plain that4 "ould you clari.y this4 A. You want e to e+plain once a)ain4 -. 'o. & don/t ean that you ha3e to tell us what happened to you a)ain. &/ Bust interested in !nowin) when @@ y collea)ue as!ed you whether that soldier# or those soldiers# in.or ed you that the *us had arri3ed# and that that is why e3erythin) stopped. &n all the docu ents that we recei3ed# there is no ention o. that. 'ow# & would li!e to !now when you )a3e this piece o. in.or ation to the 9rosecution. A. The last ti e we tal!ed. -. You ean the tal! that too! place on the 82th or 8Fth4 A. Yes. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] & apolo)ise# Your $onours. May & ha3e Bust a o ent to ta!e a loo! at the docu ent4 & don/t thin! it is in the docu ent# *ut ay & Bust ha3e your indul)ence .or a inute or two to )i3e ysel. a chance to chec!4 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes# please. [Trial "ha *er con.ers] M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# there is a constant pro*le with the translation# *ecause & )ot this docu ent only in the En)lish Pa1( 1296 lan)ua)e. JUDGE MUMBA: May we .ind out .ro the 9rosecution# *ecause we don/t see to ha3e this copy either# e3en in En)lish# so we are wonderin) what ... M(. ,U7: Your $onour# this was a e o that was written up a*out the con3ersation with this witness. &t was not a .or al state ent. &t was not shown to her# she did not si)n it. &t was a su ary prepared *y the in3esti)ator re)ardin) what was said. (o it was not @@ and it was only prepared on Monday. &t was not translated and it was turned o3er i ediately to the De.ence. JUDGE MUMBA: (o it was .or the use o. the 9rosecution in3esti)ators4 M(. ,U7: That/s correct. And we )a3e it to the De.ence so that they would *e on notice that this would *e what the witness would pro*a*ly testi.y. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] May & proceed# Your $onour4 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes# you can )o ahead. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] -. Iery well. 9lease loo! at pa)e 8 o. your state ent. JUDGE MUMBA: %hene3er you tal! o. state ent# please identi.y which one. %e ha3e D0F# we ha3e D01# Pa1( 1293 and they are on di..erent dates. (o it will *e help.ul .or the witness and the rest o. us in this trial. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. & was Bust )ettin) ready to say the date. -. The A6th and the A0st o. Au)ust 0??5. & ade

a ista!e. D0F. The pa)e is nu *er D# actually. 9lease# when you were *rou)ht to the hi)h school @@ A. Yes. -. @@ you were *rou)ht .ro persons .ro your 3illa)e4 A. Yes. -. & assu e that you !new ost o. the persons in your 3illa)e4 A. Most o. the # yes. -. "an you )i3e us a tentati3e .i)ure as to the nu *er o. Musli inha*itants in your 3illa)e4 A. & really don/t !now e+actly. & can/t say. 9erhaps o3er F6# so ethin) li!e that. -. Iery well. "an you tell e# appro+i ately# how any persons there were o. your a)e )roup and o. your se+4 A. & don/t !now. -. Appro+i ately A6# 564 A. &t could not ha3e *een A6# it could not ha3e Pa1( 1294 *een 56. & really do not !now who was y a)e. & ha3e no idea. -. Did so eone )o to school to)ether with you# so eone .ro your 3illa)e4 A. 7ne person# *ut she was a year youn)er than e. -. All ri)ht. %as there anyone at the hi)h school when you arri3ed4 A. Anyone4 -. &/ as!in) a*out other people. A. Yes. There were persons who had sur3i3ed and who were captured on the Ard o. July 0??8# in the 3illa)e o. TrosanB# and were *rou)ht to the hi)h school. -. Iery well. 9lease ta!e a loo! at the persons that you entioned here. A. Yes. -. You said# in connection with the last person# that it was another person. That/s what you said today. &t was not your other# as the 9rosecutor had as!edC it was so e*ody else4 A. & already e+plained that. -. Yes# *ut tell e# did you !now this person .ro *e.ore4 A. Yes. Pa1( 1299 -. %hat is the na e o. the other o. that person4 A. & ha3e no idea. -. %hat is the .ather/s na e4 A. & don/t !now that either. JUDGE MUMBA: >ind out .ro the 9rosecution whether# e3en thou)h the person ay not *e a witness# whether it would *e o!ay to identi.y her pu*licly# or hi pu*licly# *ecause & thou)ht that so e o. the people *ein) entioned *y witnesses# thou)h they are not

witnesses in this case# ay *e @@ ay re;uire protection# *ecause their identi.ication will lead to the identi.ication o. the witnesses in this trial. M(. ,U7: That/s correct# Your $onour# and so we are as!in) .or all the na es o. 3icti s to *e protected. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] & ha3e understood this# Your $onour. & understand the concern o. the 9rosecution. &/ )oin) to rephrase y ;uestion. -. "ould you please ta!e a piece o. paper and write the na es o. the parents o. this person4 A. & cannot. This person is not .ro y 3illa)e. (he was only arried in y 3illa)e. -. &/ sorry. & did not hear the last thin) you Pa1( 13** said. A. This person is not .ro y 3illa)e. (he was not *orn in the 3illa)eC she was only arried there. -. "an you write her hus*and/s na e on a piece o. paper# please4 A. %hy is this necessary4 -. Because &/ interested in it. JUDGE MUMBA: "an the usher please )i3e a piece o. paper to the witness. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] -. At the sa e ti e# & would as! you whether you could re e *er so e other details. &. she had children# could you )i3e the na es o. the children. (ince your 3illa)e is s all @@ JUDGE MUMBA: Yes# Ms. ,uo4 M(. ,U7: Your $onour# we ha3e the sa e concern as the witness# what is the rele3ance o. all these details o. a person# who/s not really central to this testi ony# what rele3ance could there *e to the na es o. relati3es4 JUDGE MUMBA: "ounsel# the o*Bection is that the ention o. the relati3es o. this person is @@ they are not rele3ant# and the Trial "ha *er is o. the sa e 3iew. "an you e+plain4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] The rele3ance Pa1( 13*1 is in the .ollowin)# Your $onour: & *elie3e# and & a con3inced# ha3in) read this# that there are aBor di..erences *etween the di..erent state ents. The person whose na e is entioned here# actually has the sa e na e and surna e as the witness/s other. Today we .ound out that this is not her other. Today we .ound out that this was a di..erent person all to)ether. & a as!in) a*out the identi.ication o. this other person in order to see what the credi*ility o. this witness is. Bearin) in ind# this state ent that we heard here yesterday .ro the other o. the witness we ha3e here today in relation to the persons she was ta!en out with. %as she ta!en out on her own4 %as she ta!en out with so eone else4 (o &/ puttin) a ;uestion related to all the

circu stances in3ol3ed. This is one o. the ways in which &/ tryin) to ascertain how credi*le this witness is. [Trial "ha *er deli*erates]. JUDGE $U'T: "an you tell e Bust what it is you are see!in) to do with the na e o. the other o. other people entioned4 &s this )oin) to lead to so e in;uiry o. the # or is it Bust a test to see whether she can na e the other o. these other persons na ed4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# Pa1( 13*2 than! you .or ha3in) put this ;uestion to e. &t in3ol3es the .ollowin): There is a list o. persons who le.t >oca and who recei3ed per its to lea3e. These persons are ethnic Musli s. &t is 3ery si ple. %e can co pare what we hear .ro this witness today to the na es o. persons on that list# and in this way we can test the credi*ility o. this witness. & ha3e no intention to in3esti)ate so e new circu stances or new .actsC & Bust want to see whether the witness is tellin) the truth# i. you understand what &/ sayin). JUDGE $U'T: You say that there is so e list o. e3ery*ody who le.t >oca# is there4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# all the persons .ro the hi)h school and .ro the 9artiEan (ports $all that le.t >oca# to the *est o. y !nowled)e# had per its in order to *e a*le to lea3e. %e saw so e o. these per its. JUDGE $U'T: You told us a o ent a)o# as & read the transcript and as & heard you# you said there is a list o. persons who le.t >oca and who recei3ed per its to lea3e# and you want to co pare with that list the list o. @@ that you/re )oin) to )et .ro this witness o. the others o. e3ery*ody who she/s na ed. 'ow# is there such a list4 Pa1( 13*3 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# perhaps & isspo!e. Most pro*a*ly & did. &/ only interested in the persons who were in the hi)h school and in the 9artiEan (ports $all# nothin) else. & Bust want to see who these persons were. And & thin! that we ha3e an identity pro*le here. $owe3er# i. this is a pro*le # & shall )i3e up on this ;uestion all to)ether. JUDGE $U'T: %ell# you/3e still )ot a pro*le # so .ar as &/ concerned# *ecause unless there is so e list which e+ists that you can a!e a co parison with# this see s to *e a co pletely pointless e+ercise and it is an unnecessary one as well. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. -. 9lease# a*o3e that na e# there is another na e. &n the translation that & ha3e# this is a an. "an the witness e+plain this to e4 JUDGE MUMBA: %hich one4

A. A an4 JUDGE MUMBA: %hich state ent4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# this is D0F# pa)e D. %e are tal!in) a*out the sa e list o. persons. A*o3e the na e that & was as!in) Pa1( 13*2 a*out Bust now# there is another na e. The translation here says @@ A. %hat do you want to hear .ro e4 & don/t understand. -. &/ interested in hearin) whether this person is ale or .e ale. A. >e ale. >e ale. & don/t see how you could conclude that it was a an. -. Accordin) to the na e. A. Accordin) to the na e4 A na e that ends with an JAJ4 -. &. you loo! at the parentheses and the .irst word a.ter the *rac!ets# do you !now or assu e that all o. this is *ein) .irst translated into En)lish and then into our lan)ua)e and then .ro our lan)ua)e into En)lish. & Bust want you to e+plain this to e. A. You want e to e+plain it to you4 -. This is pro*a*ly a ista!e that was ade *y the translator. That/s why & as!ed you whether this person was a an or a wo an. A. This person is a .e ale. -. Iery well. My collea)ue Bust told e that in the En)lish lan)ua)e# it says the 3ery sa e na e# Bust li!e in the (er*ian lan)ua)e4 JUDGE MUMBA: The witness who !nows what Pa1( 13*) she/s tal!in) a*out# has in.or ed the Trial "ha *er that this na e *elon)s to a person who is .e ale. "an we )et on .ro there# please. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. -. & shall now ha3e to as! you a*out a particular e3ent related to the way in which you were ta!en out o. the 9artiEan (ports $all# when you were hidin). "an you con.ir to e that it was your other who .ound you in the toilet and *rou)ht you to the person who was loo!in) .or you4 A. Yes. This is a 3ery particular thin). & said it a *it di..erently in the state ent than it actually was. &/ sure &/ sayin) the truth. This was a ista!e .or sure. %hen & spo!e this# perhaps & was not payin) uch attention to details. $ere & thou)ht a*out the .act that & le.t on y own. & le.t 3oluntarily# *ecause & was a.raid that so ethin) e3en worse would happen to so eone else. & did not clari.y that .ully at that point# and & saw that. -. You said to e a .ew inutes a)o that you read each and e3ery one o. your state ents *e.ore ha3in) si)ned the . A. Yes. Yes# & did. & ean# it/s *etter .or e to say that & heard it. & could not read it# *ecause

Pa1( 13*6 they were not printed out yet. & heard the in our lan)ua)e. -. Are you tellin) e that all the inconsistencies in your state ents that e+ist are only a ;uestion o. *ad translation# or so ethin) else4 A. & did not say *ad translation# not at all. &t is ;uite possi*le to e+plain thin)s di..erently than they actually were. But & personally !now what they ean. -. & a not tryin) to say that you don/t !now# *ut we should !now. A. Yes. -. (o it was not# a.ter all# the way you descri*ed it here4 A. 'ot ;uite that way# *ut & always thou)ht o. one thin). $owe3er# & apolo)ised .or ha3in) ade this o ission# this ista!e. -. All ri)ht. %e/ll understand that as a ista!e. A. &t was a ista!e. -. All ri)ht. Do you ha3e so e pro*le s related to tellin) colours apart4 A. %hat was that4 -. &/ as!in) you whether you perhaps ha3e a pro*le in tellin) colours apart. Pa1( 13*3 A. & did not notice anythin) li!e that. -. %ell# &/ as!in) you *ecause durin) identi.ication today you said that a an who you identi.ied to *e Horan Iu!o3ic had dar! hair4 A. $air4 -. Yes. You said that this person had dar! hair. A. 9erhaps & said a dar! suit# *ut & did not ention hair. & do not re e *er ha3in) entioned hair. JUDGE $U'T: (he did say that he was sittin) ne+t to a an with dar! hair# eanin) the )uard# as & recall. %e can loo! it up# i. you li!e. &t isn/t the sa e @@ it is not the sa e o..icer as was here then. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# & *elie3e you entirely# *ut then & did not ha3e the ri)ht interpretation. -. You will ha3e to clari.y a certain part to e. [Trial "ha *er con.ers with le)al o..icer]4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# since & will ha3e to )o *ac! to the docu ent that & recei3ed .ro the 9rosecutor# dated the 8Fth o. March# 8666# concernin) the inter3iew with the witness that was conducted on the 82th o. March# & would li!e to Pa1( 13*4 ha3e this docu ent tendered into e3idence. JUDGE MUMBA: Any o*Bection .ro the 9rosecution4 M(. ,U7: 'o# Your $onour.

T$E :EG&(T:A:: 'either the :e)istrar nor the "ha *er do ha3e copies o. this docu ent. JUDGE $U'T: %hile that/s *ein) done# & should tell you the transcript perhaps is e;ui3ocal. &t/s perhaps how each o. us heard it. At pa)e 22 o. today/s transcript# the ;uestion @@ the answer is: JAs & loo! .ro the door )oin) down# the .irst person ne+t to the )uard# with dar! hair# is Horan Iu!o3ic.J %hether the second co a there alters the sense or not# & don/t !now# *ut y clear recollection at the ti e & heard it was that & interpreted the answer as sayin) that the )uard had dar! hair# and not the accused. But & thin! that it/s open to you to pursue# i. you wish. JUDGE MUMBA: That/s how it was interpreted# and the )uard actually is not the sa e )uard we ha3e now# and he had dar! hair. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# yes# & .ully *elie3e you# and that was y o3ersi)ht. But due to the translation# or so ethin) else# & didn/t Pa1( 13*9 understand it correctly# and that is why & as!ed her the ;uestion. & thou)ht that & had understood it in the proper way. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Get/s proceed# please. The :e)istrar will )i3e us the nu *er. T$E :EG&(T:A:: The e o dated 8Fth o. March# 8666# will *e De.ence E+hi*it D0?. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] &/d li!e to )o *ac! to this inter3iew o. the 82th o. March# 8666. Your $onour# & do apolo)ise .or Bu pin) .ro one su*Bect to another durin) y cross@e+a ination# *ut we ha3e this docu ent only in En)lish. And then @@ & ean# you !now# the translation and e3erythin) else. (o & do apolo)ise .or not ha3in) put these ;uestions successi3ely. &/ )oin) *ac! to so ethin) & should ha3e as!ed earlier on. -. Be.ore you tal!ed to the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal# did you read your state ents# the state ents that you )a3e4 A. Yes. -. You were shown the state ents and you read the all4 A. M @h . -. A.ter that we ha3e this new in.or ation that you )i3e. Pa1( 131* A. Yes. -. Did you on that occasion# with e *ers o. the 9rosecution# tal! a*out your state ents# pre3ious state ents4 A. Yes# & did. -. & didn/t understand you. A. Yes# & did tal! to the . -. Than! you. And this *rin)s e *ac! to the ;uestion & was )oin) to as! a o ent a)o. Did you at

so e ti e# in addition to the D0F in.or ation# when you descri*ed Horan Iu!o3ic# tell the 9rosecution# or so e*ody else# so e other data related to hi and e *ers o. his .a ily which would identi.y hi in ore precise ter s4 A. & thin! & did on one other occasion. -. And what did you say on that occasion4 A. & said that his wi.e wor!ed in the @@ at the newspaper stand# newspaper !ios!# and that & i)ht ha3e seen her here and there# that & !new her .ace. That was ore or less it. -. Did you tell any other witnesses a*out what Horan Iu!o3ic loo!ed li!e# where his wi.e wor!ed# and did you send the @@ that is to say# did you tell @@ state it to other witnesses4 A. 7ther witnesses4 'o# ne3er. Pa1( 1311 -. 'e3er4 A. 'o. %hy would & )i3e out in.or ation o. that !ind to any*ody4 -. %ell# &/ only as!in). & now ha3e to as! you to e+plain to us in a little ore detail how you ca e to !now Horan Iu!o3ic *e.ore the war# *ecause there/s a *i) a)e di..erence. You were )oin) to school. Do you o3e around the sa e places4 A. 'o. -. Do you ha3e .riends in co on4 A. 'o. -. %ell# tell e how you ca e to !now hi . A. & said that & had pro*a*ly seen hi around# places where there are people. &t was 3ery easy to !now people in >oca. -. Get e read so ethin) to you4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] And Your $onours# it is on pa)e 2 o. docu ent D0F. The one@*ut@last para)raph *e)ins with JIu!o3ic.J &t says: J& reco)nise Iu!o3ic *ecause & !new hi *e.ore the war. & !new Iu!o3ic *e.ore war# so & reco)nise hi .J -. That is the sentence as it stands. A. Yes# that is what it says here. Pa1( 1312 -. &s there once a)ain a pro*le in the translation4 A. %ell# & don/t !now. You had so e pro*le s with the translation a o ent a)o. &t/s ;uite possi*le. -. Yes# *ut & translated what & needed. But we !eep co in) to pro*le s o. translation when it co es to you. Do you want to say that you didn/t say that4 A. & said that & don/t re e *er e+actly# *ut & say today that & see to .eel that & !new hi .ro *e.ore. $e loo!ed .a iliar. -. %ould you answer y ;uestion# please. %hat you stated here# that .irst sentence# is it true or is it not4 Yes or no# please.

A. & can/t say e+actly. -. Yes or no4 A. Yes# it/s correct. & did used to see hi . -. & didn/t as! you whether you used to see hi C & as!ed you whether you !new hi . The two o. us can understand each other# and we !now the di..erence in the words we use. A. M @h . $ow do you ean did & !now hi 4 Do you ean did & !now his na e and surna e# whether & !new his .ace# or what4 %hat do you ean4 -. Did you !now @@ is what you said here Pa1( 1313 correct# that .irst sentence4 &s it correct4 %ould you )i3e e a si ple answer# please4 A. Yes# it is correct. -. And then is what you said today true4 A. %hat do you ean4 & state once a)ain# and & will always state it: & *elie3e that & had seen hi *e.ore. $is .ace was .a iliar to e. &t was i printed on y ind. -. %ould you now turn to the ne+t pa)e# please# pa)e F# in which you descri*e an incident which occurred ne+t to the (U9 *uildin). You )i3e a 3ery detailed e+planation o. the situation and e3erythin) that happened to you. A. 'e+t to the (U9 *uildin)# you ean4 -. 'o. Just a o ent# please. 'o. The house in which you were# the house that was destroyed. A. Yes. -. Did the soldiers and people who were with you then# were they drun! or were they not drun!4 A. & can/t answer your ;uestion as si ply as that# *ecause so e o. the were drun! and so e o. the weren/t. -. Your state ent is .ull o. thin)s that appear to *e one thin) and then another. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onours# Pa1( 1312 part o. that para)raph is on pa)e F. -. &t is para)raph 5# and the para)raph *e)ins with @@ that is to say# the sentence ends# JThey weren/t drun!. They didn/t @@ not s ell li;uor on their *reath.J [As interpreted] And today you said that they were all drun! when you descri*ed this scene. %ere they drun! or weren/t they4 A. %e tal!ed a*out any thin)s today# and & can/t re e *er what & said .or these here. -. %ell# &/ tellin) you we can loo! *ac! to the transcript and see the record. %ill you answer# please4 A. %ell# possi*ly & was wron) in sayin) that all o. the were drun!. There were always those who were drun!. They were co in) and )oin). -. 'ow we see to ha3e three 3ersions: 7ne 3ersion is that none o. the were drun!# the other 3ersion is that all o. the were drun!# and you now say that so e o. the were drun!.

A. %hen did & say that all o. the were drun!4 -. JThey were not drun!. & did not s ell any li;uor on their *reathJ: That/s what you stated then. Today you say @@ A. But on the occasion did & say that they were all drun! when & said @@ when & )a3e y testi ony Pa1( 131) today4 Did & say they were all drun!4 & don/t !now. -. %ell# you state that here. &n your state ent you say that no*ody was drun!. You say these en were not drun!. 'ow# & would li!e to !now how co e they were drun! now. JUDGE MUMBA: May & )et so e clear answer4 This is the incident in which house4 %hich house. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# accordin) to the notes that & too! today# this re.ers to the incident which too! place in the houseC that is to say# a doctor# a Musli doctor# Dr. :eu. Ta3ro. That was the house that it too! place in# *elon)in) to the Musli doctor. %hen the witness e+plained that there were three di..erent en# & a not sure whether she entions in her state ent the na e# that is to say# did she state the house she was actually in. But the indi3iduals and e3ents that too! place# Bust to conclude that it is this particular incident# *ecause that was the one descri*ed in the state ent. [Trial "ha *er deli*erates] JUDGE $U'T: The transcript# at pa)e 21# that/s the 21th pa)e today# the e3idence was: JThere were old people there. There were dirty people and drun!en people.J (he didn/t say they were all drun!. Pa1( 1316 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour# *ut in the state ent she doesn/t ention any*ody ha3in) *een drun!. JUDGE $U'T: That/s a atter .or you# *ut & was Bust correctin) you as to your assertion as to what her e3idence was earlier on today. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. You are ;uite ri)ht. &t is 3ery di..icult to .ollow in a .orei)n lan)ua)e. (o eti es it is )rueso e. JUDGE MUMBA: You ha3e co@counsel# who we understand can read En)lish# so why doesn/t she do the cross@e+a ination# or at least assist you4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# y co@counsel assists e as uch as she is a*le at any )i3en point. JUDGE MUMBA: The reason we ha3e re)ulations that counsel ust *e a*le to spea! one o. the lan)ua)es o. the Tri*unal is precisely this one# and so eti es the rules are *ent a little to allow as uch participation as possi*le# and then we insist that the co@counsel ust *e a*le to use one o. the two lan)ua)es. &t/s precisely this reason. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Just a

Pa1( 1313 [De.ence counsel con.er] M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] & see in the transcript that on pa)e 21# line 1# &/ loo!in) at that now @@ JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. You can )o ahead. Yes4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] That is why & as!ed the ;uestion with re)ard to the drun!en people# *ecause drun!en people are entioned. But let/s o3e on. -. At the end o. that sa e pa)e# you descri*e the e3ent when you were ta!en out .ro the 9artiEan (ports $all. "ould you descri*e this place# Brod4 %hat was Brod li!e4 %hat !ind o. houses are there in Brod4 Are they apart ent *loc!s# pri3ate houses4 A. %ell# they/re di..erent types o. houses. There are no hi)h@rise *uildin)s. There are ostly s aller *uildin)s# pri3ate houses. There is the Ma)lic .actory. -. %hat type o. *uildin) were you in4 A. %ell# it was a *uildin)# a s aller *uildin). -. Descri*e it .or e. Did it ha3e one apart ent# se3eral apart ents4 A. The *uildin) had se3eral apart ents. All o. the do. -. 9lease# ta!e a loo!. (o ewhere around the Pa1( 1314 iddle o. the te+t# the sentence starts with the .ollowin) words: J& stayed there .or three days.J %ould you please read that sentence .or us4 7nly that one. A. J& stayed there .or three days# and durin) this ti e hundreds o. )irls were *rou)ht in and would lea3e a.ter *ein) raped.J -. 9lease# can you e+plain this word JhundredsJ a *it ore speci.ically4 A. & don/t !now how the Tri*unal sta.. wrote this down. & Bust eant a lot o. persons. -. 7h# it/s a pro*le with the translation a)ain. A. 'o# it/s not a pro*le with the translationC & Bust don/t !now how it was understood. & was Bust tryin) to say that it was a ultitude# that it was a lot o. persons. -. &. & understand you correctly# you said J anyJ and the transcript said JhundredsJ. A. &/ not tryin) to say & said J anyJ. & eant any )irls. -. Did you or did you not say JhundredsJ4 A. & do not recall. -. All ri)ht. "an you e+plain to e# then# in 3ery concrete ter s# what J anyJ eans4 Pa1( 1319 A. %hat J anyJ eans4 JUDGE MUMBA: "ounsel# it si ply eans that: any. "an we o3e on# please.

inute# please.

M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# i. you per it. %e started with JhundredsJ. & was interested in ha3in) the witness e+plain to e how did this happen with hundreds o. other persons. 'ow @@ JUDGE MUMBA: (he has e+plained. (he has e+plained it. (he eant se3eral# any. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour# *ut & as!ed .or an answer. & want to !now what the witness eans *y J anyJ# *ecause y .urther ;uestions will hin)e on that. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. "an the witness e+plain4 May*e it is aterial to counsel. A. & eant that it was not one or two )irls. & eant that ;uite a .ew had co e. As & entioned a .ew inutes a)o# & was 3ery .ri)htened. & lay in a corner. & was hidin). & really didn/t count. Many had passed. And how any there were e+actly# & cannot say .or sure. &t wasn/t only two or threeC it was ore pro*a*ly. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] -. And these persons that you/re spea!in) a*out# these are only the persons that passed throu)h the Pa1( 132* apart ent that you were in4 A. Yes. Yes# that passed throu)h that apart ent. -. Did you )o out o. that apart ent4 A. Durin) those three days while & was there4 & don/t thin! & did. -. $ow co e you !now they were ta!en to other apart ents as well4 A. %ell# *ecause they were no lon)er there. They ca e to )et the # they too! the out# and then they too! the away. & !now that .ro y own e+perience# *ecause & was ta!en out the sa e way. -. &/ as!in) you how do you !now that other wo en were ta!en to other apart ents4 'ot those that you saw in the apart ent that you were in. &/ as!in) you a*out others. A. Are you as!in) a )eneral ;uestion a*out all the wo en in 9artiEan4 & don/t understand your ;uestion. -. My ;uestion speci.ically pertains to this e3ent here. &/ interested in those persons# not the persons .ro 9artiEan. &/ interested in what you saw. Tell us that. A. %hat did & see4 As & already said# & saw ;uite a .ew )irls who were co in) in. They were Pa1( 1321 *rou)ht .ro so ewhere and ta!en away so ewhere. -. All o. this in the apart ent that you were in4 A. &/ tal!in) a*out that apart ent# yes. -. %hat do you !now a*out other apart ents that you were *rou)ht @@ that they were *rou)ht within that .ra ewor!4 &/ as!in) you that. That/s what you said.

A. & don/t re e *er how co e & !new. & don/t !now. & cannot really understand your ;uestion. "an you speci.ically e+plain what you/re as!in) e to do4 -. &/ )oin) to read it. 9erhaps it/s )oin) to *e easier .or you. A. All ri)ht. :ead it. -. J& was ta!en to a pri3ate apart ent and the other wo en and )irls were ta!en to other apart ents. & stayed there .or three days# and durin) that ti e hundreds o. )irls were *rou)ht in that le.t a.ter they had *een raped.J & a as!in) you a*out these other apart ents. &s this your state ent4 A. You are as!in) e how co e & !new that they le.t4 These were wo en .ro 9artiEan. %e did not understand each other. -. %ho did not understand each other4 You and & Pa1( 1322 or you and the in3esti)ator4 A. You and & did not understand each other. The wo en that & ention here that went to other apart ents# these are wo en .ro 9artiEan. &. you loo! a *it ore care.ully# you will see a wee! later & was ta!en out o. 9artiEan a)ain. The (er* soldiers# who & did not !now# ca e a)ain to ta!e away so e wo en and children. The sa e thin) happened a)ain. They Bust pointed at us. This ti e they too! us out o. >oca to Brod. -. "an you# with the usher/s assistance# identi.y on this list the wo en that were ta!en out o. 9artiEan to)ether with you on that occasion4 A. & do not re e *er that. & did not ention it in the state ent. & do not re e *er which are the ones that were ta!en out. & !now that se3eral were ta!en out# *ut & cannot re e *er. -. 'ot a sin)le one4 A. 'ot a sin)le one. -. You re e *er e3erythin) else concernin) that e3ent e+cept .or who was with you4 A. %hat was that4 -. &/ as!in) you the .ollowin): You re e *er e3erythin) else concernin) that e3ent e+cept .or who was with you4 Pa1( 1323 A. & re e *er as uch as & !now. & said how uch & re e *er. There were any e3ents. & don/t want to say Bust anythin) now and to say so ethin) wron). &/ not sure. & cannot say e+actly who. T$E :EG&(T:A:: [&nterpretation] The re)istrar would li!e to re ind Mr. Jo3ano3ic that he has to switch o.. his i!e when the witness answers his ;uestions. $e has to do that e3ery ti e in order to a3oid that the 3oice o. the witness is heard outside. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Than! you. -. 'ow we/re )oin) to )o *ac! to an e3ent descri*ed on pa)e D. %e tal!ed a*out it a .ew inutes a)o. That was the incident at the hi)h school. %hen

you say how lon) this incident lasted# what ti e are you re.errin) to4 A. & did not understand what you were sayin). %hat do you ean# what ti e4 The ti e that had elapsed# the ti e when this too! place# what4 -. &/ re.errin) to the duration o. this incident# .ro the *e)innin) to the end. A. A)ain & did not understand. %hat incident4 -. All ri)ht. Get/s )o on. Get/s o3e on to another ;uestion. May*e we/re )oin) to understand each other now. A.ter that had happened# you returned to the Pa1( 1322 roo where your .a ily was4 A. Yes. -. You con.ir ed that you did tell your other what had happened to you4 A. & con.ir ed @@ are you as!in) e whether & con.ir ed that & said it4 -. Yes. A. & always said that & ne3er# e3er descri*ed the e3ents that too! place to anyone. &. & said it# it was in so e other way. &t wasn/t that & told her directly that such@and@such a thin) had happened. 9erhaps & Bust said the worst had happened# or so ethin) li!e that. & ne3er descri*ed this to anyone. -. & did not ean that you descri*ed what had happenedC & eant *y way o. in.or ation# that you in.or ed her what had happened to you. Did you or did you not in.or your other o. what had happened to you4 A. & do not re e *er e+actly. & do not re e *er e+actly what & said then. -. & do not ean what you said e+actly. &/ Bust as!in) whether you told her or not. The words don/t atter. A. At this o ent & cannot re e *er that. -. &/ )oin) to re ind you o. the state ent you ade# pa)e 5# the .ourth para)raph. &t starts with the Pa1( 132) words J& do not re e *er.J The te+t reads as .ollows: J$e le.t and & went *ac! to the roo where y .a ily was. & told y other what had happened.J Do you con.ir that# that that is what you stated4 A. That & stated this4 You want e to con.ir that & stated this4 Yes. & do not re e *er e+actly. -. You do not re e *er that this is what you told the in3esti)ators4 A. & do not re e *er e+actly# yes. &t/s *een .i3e years. & cannot re e *er each and e3ery sentence. -. All ri)ht. D0?# that was ad itted today# that is a e o. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] The witness that we are e+a inin) today says that she read her state ent and that she con.ir s that all the pre3ious state ents she ade and that she read are correct. -. And now &/ as!in) you the .ollowin): &. you stated this on the 82th o. April @@ 82th o. March# and

now you say that you don/t !now what is correct4 A. & did not tell you that & don/t !now what is correct. & said that & cannot re e *er each and e3ery sentence .ro y state ent so well. -. Did you tell your other or did you not tell your otherC yes or no4 A. & don/t re e *er. Pa1( 1326 -. &s this state ent o. yours correct# the one that you )a3e here4 JUDGE $U'T: %hich one4 A. Yes# it/s correct. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# & a re.errin) to this speci.ic sentence that reads: J& told y other what happened.J Your $onour# we went *ac! to her state ent# the witness and &# the one that is D0F# & thin!. JUDGE $U'T: &t would help us i. you/d Bust identi.y that when you do. &t/s 3ery di..icult to .ollow when we now ha3e three di..erent docu ents. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] You are ;uite ri)ht. -. & was tal!in) to $is $onour# the Jud)e. & was not .ollowin) e3erythin) you said to the end. %hat you said here# is that correct4 A. & told you: & cannot re e *er# e3en when & read this state ent. & said that & could not re e *er each and e3ery sentence# each and e3ery word. %hen & read ten pa)es# & could ha3e o itted so ethin) on the .i.th pa)e. -. Than! you. Do you !now that your other# who was heard here as a witness# said that you did not tell her anythin)4 Pa1( 1323 A. & don/t !now. -. %ell# &/ tellin) you. A. All ri)ht. -. That is precisely why &/ puttin) this ;uestion to you. You said one thin)C your other# who was heard here *e.ore you# said a di..erent thin). &/ interested in which one o. the two is correct. A. 9artly *oth are correct. -. 9artly *oth are correct4 A. & said that & ne3er tal!ed to anyone a*out it. T$E &'TE:9:ETE:: "ould counsel please stop o3erlappin) the witness. A. My .ull state ent @@ y state ent is .ully correct# sir. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Than! you. JUDGE MUMBA: "ounsel# we are co in) to ti e. Do you still ha3e ;uestions4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. Un.ortunately & still ha3e so e ;uestions le.t. And & ne3er pay attention to the ti e# so than! you .or drawin) y attention to it. JUDGE MUMBA: Iery well. Then the

cross@e+a ination will continue to orrow ornin) at 6?A6 hours. & Bust want to re ind counsel that there Pa1( 1324 will *e a new schedule .or April# *ecause the Tri*unal will ha3e plenary on the 0Fth and 01th o. April. (o the proceedin)s .or that wee! will *e .or only two days: 0?th and 86th. 80st is a U' holiday. &t/s Good >riday. (o it will *e issued in writin). The "ourt will rise. @@@ %hereupon the hearin) adBourned at D p. .# to *e recon3ened on Thursday the A6th day o. March# 8666# at ?.A6 a. . Pa1( 1329 T-5+s.a/0 3* #a+,- 2*** [7pen session] [The accused entered court] [The witness entered court] @@@ Upon co encin) at ?.81 a. . JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. May the :e)istrar please call the case. T$E :EG&(T:A:: "ase &T@?2@8A@T# &T@?2@8AL0@T# the 9rosecutor 3ersus Dra)olBu* ,unarac# :ado ir ,o3ac# and Horan Iu!o3ic. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. %e are continuin) with cross@e+a ination. Mr. Jo3ano3ic# you were on your .eet. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Than! you# Your $onour. %&T'E((: "ITNESS )* 6R(s57(.8 "ross@e+a ined *y Mr. Jo3ano3ic: ["ont/d] -. Good ornin). & should li!e to start o.. *y as!in) you the .ollowin): You ha3e )i3en se3eral state ents up to now. "ould you tell us at whose initiati3e these new state ents ca e a*out4 A. At ;uestions *y people .ro the Tri*unal. -. Than! you. & should now li!e to as! you to ta!e a loo! at E+hi*it D01. &t is De.ence E+hi*it Pa1( 133* D01. And & Bust ha3e one s all ;uestion in that re)ard. &. & ha3e understood you correctly# at the re;uest o. the Tri*unal you )a3e this additional state ent. A. Yes# & did. -. & should li!e to !now whether you could clari.y the .ollowin) point. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onours# & a tal!in) a*out E+hi*it D01# and the .irst sentence o. that docu ent# which reads: J& a )i3in) an additional state ent to clari.y y pre3ious state ent#J or words to that e..ect. & a addin) this state ent to clari.y a portion o. y prior state ent# and that prior state ent was D0F o. the A6th and A0st o. Au)ust.

-. That/s ri)ht# isn/t it4 A. Yes. -. &n your state ent o. the A0st o. Au)ust you a!e no ention o. this incident# whereas here you state that you are clari.yin) a portion o. so ethin). And & can only assu e that i. so ethin) needs to *e clari.ied# that so ethin) has already *een stated. $owe3er# your D01 state ent o. the 5th o. (epte *er introduces a co pletely new e3ent. "ould you tell us so ethin) a*out that4 %ere you speci.ically as!ed to Pa1( 1331 answer that# and how this ca e a*out4 Because you a!e no ention o. that pre3iously. A. %ell# yes. & e+plained this yesterday. & said that & had ade no ention o. it# and then later on & entioned Bust a part o. it# whereas the last ti e here & said e3erythin) that happenedC & told the whole truth# e3erythin) that happened. -. (o in .act you/re )i3in) us *it *y *it o. what happened# i. & understand you correctly. A. & a )i3in) you what & re e *er as & re e *er it. -. &. that is so# then you are tellin) us what you re e *ered. "ould & as! you: %hen did you re e *er the whole incident# in its entirety4 A. & re e *er it today. -. &/ not as!in) you whether you re e *er it today# and don/t loo! at the 9rosecution# please. A. Do & ha3e to loo! at you4 -. 'o# you don/t. A. %ell# 3ery well# then. %hy shouldn/t & loo! at the 9rosecution4 JUDGE MUMBA: "ounsel# would you )o ahead with your ;uestions. %e are o*ser3in) the witness here# and i. she conducts hersel. in any way unaccepta*le in "ourt# we will correct her. Just )o Pa1( 1332 ahead with your ;uestions. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Than! you# Your $onour. -. &/ interested in !nowin) why you ade your state ents partially# )i3en partial state ents# and e3ery ti e when you )i3e a state ent# you introduce new circu stances and new .acts. JUDGE MUMBA: The witness has already e+plained that she used to )i3e e+planations o. the incidents as she re e *ered the # at di..erent ti es# whene3er she was ;uestioned. (he has already e+plained why @@ the ;uestion you are e+plainin) @@ you are as!in) her. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# & ha3e recei3ed se3eral ;uestions to that one answer o. ine: that she responded as she ca e to re e *er it# then that she decided to tell the truth when she ca e to court here# and that at all ti es she )a3e 066 per cent state ents. 'ow# & want to !now what is correct# *ecause & ha3e recei3ed in the course o. y

cross@e+a ination di..erent answers to y sa e ;uestion. (o & should Bust li!e to as! the witness to decide on which e+planation she wishes to )i3e and what it was# in .act. JUDGE MUMBA: Then as! her directly. &/ Pa1( 1333 sure she has understood e3erythin) that you ha3e said# so as! her. A. :epeat it please. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] -. Do & ha3e to repeat the ;uestion or ha3e you understood4 A. :epeat it# please. -. &n )i3in) your answers# you ha3e told e the .ollowin): You said that e3ery ti e you told the truth 066 per cent. Then you told e that you told e the truth as you re e *ered it. And then you said that you decided to tell the whole truth here *e.ore the Trial "ha *er. A. 'o# & did not say that & had decided to tell the whole truth *e.ore the Trial "ha *er. & said that & had decided to tell the Trial "ha *er the e3ent in its entirety when & ca e here# *ecause *e.ore that & was asha ed. & said that yesterday# and & say that today. And when & ha3e @@ as & ha3e co e here# when & ca e here# & )ot o3er y sha e and decided to tell the whole incident as it happened. & e+plained this to you yesterday. & don/t !now whether & was not clear enou)h# sir# or perhaps you don/t understand our lan)ua)e. -. & do understand our lan)ua)e 3ery well. But Pa1( 1332 ne3er ind. %hen you decided to co e *e.ore this Trial "ha *er and tell the # or you re e *ered the second incident that you too! @@ or incident you too! part in# you were a party to# and that you had the na e o. an indi3idual who was an ethnic (er* @@ A. & don/t understand. %here/s the ;uestion there in what you/re sayin)4 %hat ;uestion are you as!in) e4 -. &n your state ent yesterday @@ in your testi ony yesterday you told us a*out an e3ent# and it was when you spent the ni)ht in a house where you were introduced as *ein) a (er*ian )irl. A. Yes. -. And now &/ as!in) you: %hen did you decide to recount that particular incident *e.ore this Tri*unal4 A. &t wasn/t a decision. %hen & ade these decisions [sic]# & had .or)otten a*out that particular incident. But now# thin!in) a*out all the e3ents and the state ents and e3erythin) that happened to e# & tried to )o throu)h e3ents day *y day and e3erythin) that happened to e day *y dayC and e3ery new recollection as it ca e to e# & recounted it here. And a on) other thin)s# that was one o. the # althou)h

Pa1( 133) it was 3ery di..icult .or e. 9erhaps & re e *ered it *e.ore the a ended state ents. & didn/t perhaps ention this *ecause & had to )i3e another na e and surna e and say that & was a (er*. This was all di..icult .or e. But as & ha3e co e here and as y recollections co e to e# & a sayin) e3erythin) as it happened# all o. it. -. &s there anythin) else that you ha3e re e *ered in the eanti e and ha3e decided to recount4 A. & don/t !now. -. Did you re e *er this incident *e.ore the 82th o. March# 86664 A. Yes. Yes# & did. -. You didn/t ention this in your con3ersation with the 9rosecution on the 82th o. March. %hy4 A. Yes# & did. & entioned it. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# ay & Bust ha3e a o ent to loo! so ethin) up4 UDGE MUMBA: Yes. 9lease )o ahead. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] The E+hi*it D0?# in.or ation relatin) to the 82th o. March# 8666# the witness states that she told this to the 9rosecution# *ut no ention is ade o. this in this docu ent. -. "an you e+plain that to us# please4 Pa1( 1336 JUDGE MUMBA: Mr. Jo3ano3ic# that is not the state ent. You heard what the 9rosecution said. That docu ent contains their notes. They# the 9rosecution# decided what to put in there# not the witness. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. -. &n addition to what happened to you in Bu! BiBela# do you !now whether anythin) happened to any*ody else4 A. & didn/t see anythin). & personally didn/t see anythin). -. & didn/t as! you whether you saw anythin)C & as!ed you whether you !new. A. Yes# & did !now. -. You !new a*out what happened to who 4 "ould you use the codes# not to ention na es# and )i3e us the nu *ers. A. >or e+a ple# person F5. -. Any*ody else4 A. & don/t !now that e+actly# and &/ not )oin) to say anythin) that &/ not sure o.. Because# anyway# & heard this .ro others. & could only ha3e heard thin)s .ro others. -. Than! you. Get/s )o *ac! now to E+hi*it D0F# your state ent o. the A6th and A0st o. Au)ust# 0??5. & Pa1( 1333 ha3e se3eral ;uestions. "ould you please loo! at pa)e 8 @@ it is pa)e 8 o. the BL"L( 3ersion# Your $onours @@ and para)raph 5# and the sentence *e)ins with: JApart .ro that#J or words to that e..ect.

A. Yes. -. %ould you read that sentence out# please. There are two o. the . A. JApart .ro that# until July# it was relati3ely ;uiet in MBesaBa. There was no resistance to *e)in with. &t was ;uiet.J -. Than! you. %hat do you ean when you say# JThere was no resistance to *e)in withJ4 A. %ell# .or e+a ple# when the weapons were surrendered in May# all the people who had huntin) weapons# .or e+a ple# or weapons .or which they had per its# surrendered the # which eans they *eca e loyal to the (er*ian authorities. -. %as there resistance later4 A. Gater on# & don/t !now. &/ not aware o. that. & a not aware o. the .act that there was resistance at any ti e# e3er. -. But .ro what you say here @@ A. %ell# you should read the te+t *etter. & thin! that the te+t is ;uite clear. -. 9erhaps it is clear to you. Pa1( 1334 T$E &'TE:9:ETE:: %ould counsel please a!e pauses *etween ;uestions and answers. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] -. 9erhaps it/s clear to you# *ut it isn/t to e# and that is why & a as!in) you. A. & ha3e )i3en you an e+planation. %hat & eant was that no resistance was ade. The weapons were surrendered. That was all o!ay. %e were told e3erythin) would *e all ri)ht and in order. And & considered this to *e a s aller incident. That/s what it eant. And until July# thin)s were relati3ely ;uiet. But# sir# e3en *e.ore July# people would shoot at our house at rando and )i3e us a .ri)ht. &. you ean this word Jrelati3e#J & used the word Jrelati3ely#J that is the relati3ity. -. (o this is another incident that we hear a*out that people shot at your house. The pre3ious witnesses# your other and .ather# did not state that. A. Yes. 7n one occasion & was in .ront o. the house @@ JUDGE MUMBA: "ounsel# these three people# the witness# the parents# are di..erent people# all ri)ht# so you shouldn/t e+pect that e3erythin) that this witness o*ser3ed ust ha3e *een o*ser3ed *y the parents all the ti e. 'o. Pa1( 1339 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# & don/t e+pect that# *ut in 3iew o. the state ent ade *y this witness# and she says that she spends all her ti e with her other# she says that here# &/ Bust interested in !nowin)# *ecause they/re not sli)ht di..erences# they/re not di..erences in inor details# whether so e*ody was dressed in one way or in another wayC they were all there to)ether. JUDGE MUMBA: 'ot e3erythin) that this

witness o*ser3ed should ha3e *een o*ser3ed *y her parents. 'ot e3erythin). All ri)ht4 M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. You/re ;uite ri)ht. -. &n your state ent yesterday you told us that you do not re e *er# *ecause o. the passa)e o. ti e# and please correct e i. &/ wron)# the situation and the circu stances o. your arrest. A. 'o# & really don/t re e *er. That/s true. -. %e are now on pa)e A. &. you turn to pa)e A# please# %itness# para)raph 8 states: JMy .a ily and &#J or words to that e..ect. %ould you read the sentence4 9erhaps that will re.resh your e ory. JMy .a ily# ysel. and the others#J the para)raph starts. A. 'o# & ha3e read this# and what & re e *er & said. & no lon)er re e *er how the circu stances o. Pa1( 132* what happened. -. Did you a!e this state ent yoursel.4 A. Yes# & did. -. Do you stand *y what you stated here4 A. & said & can/t re e *er any ore. -. (o i. & understand you correctly# you don/t re e *er what you )a3e to the 9rosecution. A. &s that a terri*le thin)# i. & can/t re e *er e3ery detail4 -. &/ not as!in) you i. it/s a terri*le thin). A. %ell# then &/ tellin) you# & don/t re e *er how it ca e a*out. M:. J7IA'7I&": [&nterpretation] Than! you# Your $onours. & ha3e no .urther ;uestions. JUDGE MUMBA: Than! you. Any other counsel4 Yes. Go ahead. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# Your $onour. & shall continue the cross@e+a ination o. the witness here today. "ross@e+a ined *y Ms. 9ilipo3ic: -. &n her testi ony yesterday# the witness said that she was raped on the 8nd o. Au)ust# 0??8# and y ;uestion is as .ollows: %hen on the 8nd o. Au)ust# 0??8 were you ta!en .ro 9artiEan4 & apolo)ise. &/ )oin) to re ind the witness# it is in the state ent Pa1( 1321 that she ade on the A6th and A0st o. Au)ust# 0??5. &t is E+hi*it D0F# pa)e 1# para)raph 5# and it says: J& was a)ain raped#J or words to that e..ect. J& was raped once ore.J %ere you ta!en .ro 9artiEan that day4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. -. %as it in the ornin) or in the a.ternoon4 A. & thin! it was in the a.ternoon. -. %hat ti e in the a.ternoon4 A. %ell# & don/t re e *er. -. Get e re ind you o. your state ent o. Au)ust 0??5# where you say# or you could read it yoursel.: J& re e *er this date *ecause the os;ue was destroyed in >oca on that day.J %as it two o/cloc! in the a.ternoon# earlier#

or later4 A. & don/t re e *er e+actly. -. &s what you stated true# that it was at 8.66 p. . A. & can no lon)er re e *er. -. %hen was your e ory *etter# when you )a3e your 0??5 state ent or when you )a3e testi ony yesterday4 A. %ell# o. course it was *etter in 0??5# & suppose# *ut there are always di..erences o. detail. -. %ho too! you away .ro 9artiEan and who too! Pa1( 1322 you o.. to this house4 A. & can/t re e *er the people. -. "an you descri*e the to us4 $ow were they dressed# .or e+a ple4 A. They had ilitary clothin). & don/t !now. -. $ow any were there4 A. %ell# & really don/t re e *er any ore. -. $ow were you ta!en to that house4 A. %e went *y car. -. &/ waitin) .or an answer. $ow did you )o there4 Did you )o on .oot or what4 A. & already answered. JUDGE MUMBA: (he said they went *y car. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation]. -. %hat colour was that car4 A. & cannot re e *er now# honestly. -. &n your state ent# in this para)raph# you said that you were ta!en in a car that was dri3en *y Horan Iu!o3ic. A. Yes# & said that. -. %hen you arri3ed in this house# who did you .ind there4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. & thin! there were other soldiers there# *ut & cannot re e *er e+actly now. Pa1( 1323 -. Did you )o *y yoursel. that day with these two soldiers4 A. 'o. There were other )irls as well. -. %ith you in the car4 A. %ell# that & no lon)er !now. &n the house there were other )irls .or sure. -. Do you re e *er who were these )irls4 A. 9erson DB# person 15 @@ F5# .or sure. & don/t !now a*out the rest. -. &n your state ent# the one that is in .ront o. you# you said that they ca e a.ter you had arri3ed. &. you can read that# that is the one@*ut@last para)raph. A. %hat pa)e is this on4 -. 9a)e nu *er 1. The para)raph starts with the words: J& was raped once ore#J and then it/s the last two lines. :ead the . A. Yes# &/3e read the . -. "ould you please read it out loud without

entionin) the na es. Just read it. JA.ter & arri3ed ...J @@ could you read it4 A. JA.ter & arri3ed other )irls were *rou)ht in e3ery 05 inutes or so.J -. All ri)ht. (o what is correct. %ere they there when you arri3ed or did they co e a.ter you had Pa1( 1322 arri3ed4 A. & no lon)er re e *er. -. &/ as!in) you once a)ain: %hen was your e ory *etter4 Then or today# when you/re answerin) these ;uestions4 A. &t was pro*a*ly *etter then# *ut & cannot assert that. -. Iery well. $ow any ti es were you in this house4 Be.ore you ca e then4 A. & was ne3er there *e.ore. -. (o that was the .irst ti e you were in that house4 A. Yes. -. %ould you descri*e this house to e. A. %ell# it was a ediu siEed house. &t had a )round .loor and a .loor a*o3e it. Upstairs there were perhaps three or .our roo s# & ean includin) the entire area. -. %ould you please a!e a s!etch o. that house .or e4 "ould you Bust s!etch it# draw it *rie.ly# so that we could all use it. A. A s!etch o. the inside o. the apart ent4 -. A s!etch o. the house# what it loo!ed li!e when you )ot into it. [%itness co plies] Pa1( 132) A. & can/t do it. & don/t re e *er that well enou)h any ore in order to *e a*le to draw it. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation]. -. Than! you. Gi3e e a description o. the roo that you ca e into and who was sittin) in that roo at that o ent# since you are una*le to a!e a s!etch. A. & already told you that & don/t !now e+actly who was sittin) there. &n the roo there was a ta*le# two so.as. & cannot re e *er any other details. There was one roo . %hen you enter the house. Yes. Yes. >ro the staircase# that was the .irst roo that you/d enter. -. %hen you ca e# were these )irls that you entioned to)ether with you4 A. & don/t !now. & no lon)er re e *er that. & !now that they were there *ut when they were *rou)ht. -. You said it was DB# 1F and F54 A. Yes. -. $ow uch ti e did you spend in that house .ro the o ent you arri3ed until the o ent you le.t4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. & le.t a.ter idni)ht. -. %ho stayed in the house a.ter you had le.t4 A. The soldiers stayed. & thin! that the )irls also stayed.

-. %hich )irls4

Pa1( 1326 A. & cannot re e *er now. -. $ow any )irls4 A. & do not recall. -. You said that you were raped in that house. A. Yes. Yes# that/s what & said. -. $ow any ti es4 A. Twice. -. %ho raped you4 A. 7nce Ha)a# the other ti e another an# an un!nown an. -. %ho was the .irst o. the two to rape you4 A. The .irst was Ha)a. -. %hen was that a.ter the o ent you arri3ed4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. &t was dar!# & thin!. -. %ho was in the house at that o ent when Ha)a raped you# and where did he rape you4 A. &n the roo . &n relation to the entrance door# the roo was on the le.t@hand side. -. %ho was with you in the roo 4 A. &n the .irst roo or in the roo where he raped e4 -. &n the roo where he raped you. A. 'o one. -. Did you notice anythin) characteristic on the person that raped you# and you say that that person is Pa1( 1323 Dra)olBu* ,unarac4 A. Yes# & did. -. Tell us what that was. A. Eyes. -. Did he ha3e anythin) else that was characteristic and that you noticed4 A. 7n hi # & do not re e *er e+actly now. -. %as he .atter than he is now4 A. A *it. -. %as he sha3en or did he ha3e a *eard4 A. & don/t re e *er a*out the *eard. -. %as his hair lon)er or shorter4 A. Gon)er. -. Did he ha3e all his teeth4 A. & don/t !now. -. Did he ha3e a scar. or a *and o. any !ind on4 A. & don/t !now that either. There were so any o. the . & cannot re e *er e+actly who had what. -. Did he ha3e a chain or a pendant around his nec!4 A. & don/t !now. & don/t !now. -. You said that the other person in that roo @@ in that house who raped you was an elderly an. A. Yes. Pa1( 1324 -. %hen did he rape you4 A. A.ter this one. -. $ow uch ti e had elapsed *etween the .irst

and the second rape4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. Appro+i ately ay*e a .ew hours. & don/t !now e+actly. -. This other rape was *e.ore the detonation that you heard then4 A. &t was not. &t was a.ter. -. %hen was the detonation4 A. & don/t re e *er e+actly. &t had to *e *e.ore idni)ht. -. &n your state ent you said that it was 1.66 in the e3enin). That is pa)e nu *er ? o. your state ent# para)raph 8. &t starts with the .ollowin) words: JGater that ni)ht the os;ue was destroyed.J "ould you continue4 "an you continue4 A. You want e to read4 -. Yes. A. J& was in the tailor/s house at that ti e. The aladEa os;ue was standin) at the ti e when & arri3ed *ut & saw that it was *adly da a)ed. &t was a*out 1.66 or so in the e3enin). -. Than! you. &s it correct that it was at 1.66 in the e3enin) or now you are sayin) so e other ti e4 Pa1( 1329 &. you can say e+actly when it was at all. A. & !now that & !now .or sure that it was *e.ore idni)ht# ada # and &/ tellin) you that & .or)ot ;uite a .ew thin)s. & do not !now e+actly. & cannot tell you e+actly. -. (o you cannot say e+actly when the detonation occurred and when the os;ue was destroyed4 A. & cannot say the e+act ti e. & was not loo!in) at y watch. -. $ow uch ti e did you spend in the house a.ter ha3in) heard the detonation4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. & was returned to 9artiEan perhaps two or three hours a.ter idni)ht. -. %ho returned you4 A. & do not recall any ore really. -. $ow did you return4 Did you return on .oot or *y car4 A. & can/t re e *er that either. -. %ho returned with you4 A. 'o one. -. (o you returned on your own4 A. 'o. & eant none o. the )irls. (o e soldier *rou)ht e *ac!. %e ne3er returned *y oursel3es. -. You said that an elderly an raped you in that house. Pa1( 13)* A. Yes. -. %here did he rape you4 A. &n the wor!shop# the roo that & descri*ed as a wor!shop in the )round .loor. -. %as it perhaps the *ase ent# or is it e+actly the )round .loor4 A. That is a house @@ that is a roo attached to the house# on the )round .loor.

-. (o is it a wor!shop or is it a roo # in the sense o. the .urnishin)s4 A. & did not notice that it had any .urniture. 9erhaps one *ed. & can/t re e *er now. & don/t !now. -. $ow any roo s are upstairs4 A. & told you# three or .our. & can/t re e *er e+actly. -. &n the state ent that you ade and that is in .ront o. you# on pa)e 1# towards the end o. the pa)e# it starts with: JThe tailor/s house.J And pa)e ?. Turn to pa)e ?. :ead it. A. J$e too! e to another roo and raped e there.J -. At that ti e you did not say that that was a wor!shop. Do you allow .or the possi*ility o. that *ein) another upstairs roo ne+t to the other roo 4 A. & don/t thin! it was an upstairs roo . Pa1( 13)1 -. (o what is correct# then4 &s it a roo or a wor!roo # wor!shop4 A. Mada # & don/t !now what it is. &t/s a roo . & don/t !now whether it was a roo or a wor!shop roo . -. &/ )oin) to re ind you# yesterday you said it was a wor!roo . A wor!shop. That/s why &/ as!in) you so ethin). A wor!roo is so ethin) speci.ic and a roo is so ethin) di..erent4 A. %ell# all o. it are roo s .or e. -. You said that you were raped *y Dra)olBu* ,unarac# Ha)a. A. Yes. -. Accordin) to the .irst state ent that you ade to the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal# you did not say that. & pointed this out to you now. You told us a*out the e3ent that occurred in the house. "ould you tell us why you did not spea! o. that e3ent then4 A. & thin! & did not re e *er when & tal!ed. & thin! & did not re e *er that e3ent# and that/s how & ca e to o it it. -. And when did you re e *er4 A. Gradually# when & loo!ed at pictures# se3eral pictures. & don/t !now. & pointed out a photo)raph. & re e *ered a lot. My e ory started co in) *ac!. Pa1( 13)2 And the ore & thou)ht a*out it# & !now what happened# where it was# and & !now it was hi . -. &/ now )oin) to show you your state ent# the one that you ade to the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal on the A0st o. March# 0??14 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] "ould that state ent please *e ad itted into e3idence. That is the state ent where the witness is in3ol3ed in reco)nition. T$E :EG&(T:A:: ['o [&nterpretation] JUDGE MUMBA: %e can/t hear the interpretation. T$E :EG&(T:A:: [&nterpretation] This e+hi*it

will *e D86# De.ence E+hi*it D86. The witness state ent dated the A0st o. March# 0??1# will *e ar!ed E+hi*it D86# De.ence E+hi*it. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] -. Do you ha3e the state ent in .ront o. you4 A. Yes. -. >irst let e as! you: Do you !now when Dra)olBu* ,unarac was arrested4 A. 'o. -. Did you watch this on tele3ision# his surrender4 A. 'o# ne3er. Pa1( 13)3 -. %hen this photo .ile was shown to you# were you told why you were *ein) shown this4 A. 'o. 'o. & was Bust told that & should try to reco)nise so eone i. & !now the # people in these pictures. -. %ere you as!ed whether you could reco)nise Dra)olBu* ,unarac4 A. 'o. -. &n the court/s @@ in the e orandu which was D0?# 9rosecution E+hi*it D0?# when on the 82th o. March you had your tal!# it was said that you could correct your state ent# and you were allowed to read your state ent. A. Yes# that/s ri)ht. -. And you were told that you could correct the state ent# a!e any corrections to it. A. %ell# & don/t !now what was e+actly said to e. -. You said you would add to so e @@ add so e incidents. A. Yes# & did. -. And you added the incident which too! place with the accused Iu!o3ic. A. Yes# & added that. -. %hy didn/t you add the incident which too! Pa1( 13)2 place with Mr. ,unarac4 A. Because at that ti e @@ & don/t !now how to e+plain this @@ & was not certain enou)h that it was hi . -. And when did you *eco e certain4 A. %ell# when & saw hi yesterday. Then & was the ost certain & could e3er *e# and & !now this .or sure# 0.666 per cent. & can see hi # and & !now hi # and they !now it# he !nows it. -. $ow can you re e *er that a.ter ei)ht years4 A. Iery well# ada . &. you e+perience so ethin) li!e that# you can ne3er .or)et it# especially when you loo! those people in the eyes. &/ll ne3er .or)et that. -. Did you .ollow the proceedin)s in this Tri*unal throu)h the edia4 A. 'o. -. %hy did you not tell the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal when you loo!ed at the line@up o. photo)raphs

that you were raped *y Dra)olBu* ,unarac on the A0st o. March# 0??14 A. Because on that particular photo)raph & did not say it was actually Dra)olBu* ,unarac. %hat & said was that it was an indi3idual that & had seen# that was .a iliar# and & descri*ed e3erythin). And then & thou)ht a*out it and & wasn/t that sure at the ti e# Pa1( 13)) *ecause you !now# when you see a photo)raph# a photo)raph is so ethin) di..erent. -. &/ )oin) to as! you on the state ent that you ha3e in .ront o. you to read para)raph A o. that state ent4 JUDGE MUMBA: "an we Bust .or clarity/s sa!e# which state ent now4 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] &t is D0?. 'o# & apolo)ise. D86# Your $onours. &t is the state ent o. the A0st o. March# 0??1. -. &t is para)raph A. A. J& ha3e pointed at photo)raph nu *er F.J -. Yes. That/s it. %ould you read the para)raph to the end4 A. J& do not !now this person/s na e# *ut & thin! that & ay ha3e seen hi at a pri3ate house in AladEa# which is in >oca. & cannot *e ore positi3e than to say that & thin! this is the an & saw there. And & cannot *e 066 per cent sure.J -. You said that you didn/t !now the indi3idual/s na e. %hen did you re e *er the na e o. Dra)olBu* ,unarac4 A. & always !new the na e# *ut & didn/t dare say it# *ecause & was a.raid & i)ht *e wron)# that it i)ht not *e the an on nu *er F# photo)raph nu *er F. Pa1( 13)6 & didn/t want to do anythin) which was not a*solutely correct and certain. That/s what & was a.raid o.. -. &/ )oin) to as! you once a)ain: Did you watch these proceedin)s on the edia4 A. & said that & ne3er had. -. %ere you sittin) in the pu*lic )allery e3er4 A. 'o# ne3er. -. Did ,unarac loo! di..erent on that occasion than he does today4 A. %ell# & descri*ed that to you a o ent a)o. $e did loo! a little di..erent. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] %ith the Trial "ha *er/s per ission# & should li!e to show a photo line@up with the photo)raphs o. the accused# a on)st others# and & should li!e to as! the witness to *e shown this photo)raphic display .or her to loo! at and to tell us whether she can reco)nise any o. the people. %ith the "ourt/s per ission# o. course. JUDGE MUMBA: & Bust want to .ind out whether the 9rosecution ha3e copies# or are these photo)raphs in the *inder4 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] & ha3e copies .or the 9rosecution as well.

JUDGE MUMBA: %hat & want to as! .ro counsel is: &s this a copy o. the photo)raphs in the *inders# Pa1( 13)3 or are these photo)raphs only .ro the De.ence4 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] These are copies o. the De.ence. JUDGE MUMBA: Because these are photocopies. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] (o e indi3iduals on this photo line@up are in the 9rosecution/s *inder# so e o. these photo)raphs# and that is why & a as!in) per ission .ro the Trial "ha *er. But not all o. the # no. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. And the other point is# these are photocopies. They are not photo)raphsC they are photocopies. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] Yes# these are photocopies. JUDGE MUMBA: And they are not clear. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] %e ha3e not )ot the ori)inal photo)raphs. & would Bust li!e to as! the Trial "ha *er to rule on whether we can show a photo)raphic display o. this !ind to the witness. &. that is all ri)ht# 3ery well. &. not# it is your decision. [Trial "ha *er deli*erates] JUDGE $U'T: The pro*le & ha3e with it is that there would *e no 3alue in usin) a docu ent such as you/3e handed up. The photostats o. photo)raphs are Pa1( 13)4 always 3ery indistinct. You are not )oin) to )et a )ood result or a 3alua*le result .ro usin) ere photostats. &. you ha3e the ori)inal photo)raphs# then su*Bect to anythin) the 9rosecution ay want to say a*out the spread o. photo)raphs# & .or ysel. would see no pro*le with it. But to use photostats o. photo)raphs is a co pletely useless procedure# i. & ay say so. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] Your $onour# the De.ence does not possess the ori)inal photo)raphsC all we ha3e is photocopies# and we did this on the *asis o. the copies that we )ot .ro the 9rosecution. The 9rosecution also showed copies to witnesses. JUDGE MUMBA: %hat a*out the other photo)raphs# *ecause you didn/t say @@ yes# the other ones. Don/t you ha3e other photo)raphs4 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] 'o. They/re all copies. & a Bust see!in) the Trial "ha *er/s per ission and rulin). JUDGE $U'T: Did you say @@ &/ sorry. You are reported on the transcript as ha3in) said that the 9rosecution had shown copies to witnesses. Do you ean photostat copies4 &. so# you *etter point out to us where that happened. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] The Pa1( 13)9 photocopies o. photo)raphs# photostats o. photo)raphs# *ecause that is what we ha3e *een )i3en *y the

9rosecution. &. the 9rosecution does ha3e the ori)inals# then that is not a point to *e contested# o. course. But the De.ence only has the copies. &. the 9rosecution has the ori)inals# then there/s no pro*le there. & will withdraw y proposal and re;uest. [Trial "ha *er deli*erates] JUDGE MUMBA: %e Bust want to 3eri.y with the 9rosecution whether they ha3e any o. the photo)raphs o. any o. the people on this chart. And while we are discussin) this chart# can we ha3e a nu *er# Bust .or identi.ication# please4 T$E :EG&(T:A:: This docu ent will *e nu *er D80# and it is a De.ence e+hi*it. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. The 9rosecution. M(. ,U7: Your $onours# the photo spread that was shown to this witness were not photostat copiesC they were photo)raphs. %e pro3ided photostat copies to the De.ence so we didn/t ha3e to reproduce all the photo)raphs. %e ha3e ne3er recei3ed a re;uest .ro the De.ence .or the ori)inal photo)raphs# and & see .ro the De.ence E+hi*it D80 we ost li!ely ha3e so e o. these ori)inals# as & reco)nise so e o. the photo)raphs# *ut certainly not all o. the . Pa1( 136* JUDGE $U'T: %hat do you say a*out the spread o. photo)raphs# or would you pre.er to wait until you see the ori)inals o. the all4 M(. ,U7: &t/s rather hard to see on this photostat copy# and & would pre.er to see the ori)inals. JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. De.ence counsel# you/3e understood# &/ sure# the co ents .ro the *ench and what the 9rosecution ha3e Bust said# so what are you )oin) to do4 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] & will not *e showin) this photo spread to the witness at this point in ti e. JUDGE MUMBA: All ri)ht. Than! you 3ery uch. (o D80 is not ad ittedC it/s Bust ar!ed .or identi.ication. 7!ay. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] May & continue y cross@e+a ination4 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes# please. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] -. %hen did you see Dra)olBu* ,unarac .or the .irst ti e in >oca# in the 0D days o. your detention there @@ D6 days4 A. & don/t re e *er e+actly. -. Did you see hi in the secondary school4 Pa1( 1361 A. & don/t re e *er that either. & don/t thin! & saw hi in the secondary school. -. Did you see hi at 9artiEan4 A. & did see hi at 9artiEan# yes. -. %hen did you see hi in 9artiEan4 Durin) the day or at ni)ht4 A. & don/t !now e+actly. & don/t re e *er

whether it was dayti e or ni)ht@ti e. -. Did he )o into the 9artiEan pre ises or did you see hi in .ront o. the 9artiEan *uildin)4 A. & don/t !now. & don/t !now e+actly. & could only lea3e the 9artiEan *uildin) with per ission .ro the or i. & was ta!en o.. *y the # which eans @@ & can/t say e+actly whether & saw hi inside or outside. -. Get e re ind you. Do you re e *er a Bournalist# a .e ale Bournalist co in) to 9artiEan4 A. & re e *er that 3ery poorly. -. Did any o. your collea)ues# the )irls you were with in the 9artiEan# did they tell you that a Bournalist wo an ca e4 A. %ell# they did tal! a*out it# *ut & don/t re e *er. -. Do you re e *er who told you4 A. & thin! it was person D1 who told e a*out it. Pa1( 1362 -. Did she tell you who tal!ed to this Bournalist4 A. 'o# & don/t re e *er her sayin) anythin) o. that !ind. & don/t !now# & really don/t. -. And that was the .irst ti e you )ot to !now the na e o. the indi3idual who raped you at the AladEa house who you say was Dra)olBu* ,unarac4 A. %hen & learned this .or the .irst ti e# is that what you/re as!in) e4 -. Yes. A. %ell# & don/t re e *er. -. & would now li!e us to )o *ac! to an incident that you descri*ed at the *e)innin) o. your state ent# and & should li!e to as! you to write down the na es o. the indi3iduals who hid in the woods on the Ard o. July to)ether with you. A. You want e to write it down4 -. Yes# please. 7r i. you can show us on the list# *ut & would rather that you wrote down who was with you .or identi.ication purposes. A. A & allowed to spea! out the na es o. other people here4 Are they not protected people4 -. That is why &/ as!in) you to write the na es down# so that they continue to *e protected. A. %ell# & can/t write it down. Pa1( 1363 -. But you said who was with you. &/ Bust as!in) you to write down their na es. A. %ho did & tell this to4 -. To the in3esti)ators o. the Tri*unal. & a Bust as!in) you to write down the na es. You/3e said you were with a )roup. A. Yes# & did say & was with a )roup. -. %ell# would you Bust write down the na es o. the people in that who were with you# nothin) else4 JUDGE MUMBA: %itness# you should write down the na es o. those people you can re e *er. [%itness co plies]

A. Do you want e to write down the na es o. the children as well4 M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] -. & apolo)ise. "ould you say that a)ain4 A. The children/s na es4 -. 'o# that/s not necessary. You can Bust write down the nu *er o. children that were with you. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] "ould this please *e ad itted into e3idence. And & would li!e to than! the witness. JUDGE MUMBA: "an the usher please show the other De.ence counsel# please. T$E :EG&(T:A:: This docu ent will *e D88# Pa1( 1362 De.ence e+hi*it# and it will *e con.idential. M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] -. & would li!e to as! the witness to )o *ac! to pa)e nu *er 1 o. her state ent so that we could clari.y a .ew ore atters. That is D0F. That is De.ence E+hi*it nu *er 0F. &/ Bust )oin) to re ind you o. the .act that you said that there were en there# soldiers. "an you say how any soldiers4 A. & cannot e+actly. & don/t !now. -. "an you )i3e an appro+i ate nu *er4 >i3e# ten4 A. & cannot )i3e an appro+i ation# *ecause & don/t !now# & really don/t !now. -. And how any were there when you ca e4 A. & can/t re e *er that now either. -. Durin) the detonation# when the AladEa os;ue was *lown up# did you )o out o. the house4 A. & don/t !now. -. ['o interpretation] A. & don/t re e *er. & do not re e *er where he was. -. %as he in the house4 You said that he was the .irst who raped you4 A. Yes# yes# that/s what & said. Pa1( 136) -. (o he was in the house when you were there4 A. & don/t !now whether he was in the house when we arri3ed. -. "an you say whether @@ A. & cannot tell you so ethin) & do not !now. -. %hat was that4 %hen did you .irst see hi in that house4 A. That day when & was in the house. -. "an you say when# at what ti e4 A. & can/t. & told you that already. -. And the persons who dro3e you there# were they in the house with you4 A. Yes. Yes. Yes# they were there. -. %ere they there all the ti e with you4 A. That & can no lon)er re e *er. -. & do apolo)ise# *ut let us clari.y this once a)ain. Your e ory was *etter when you ade your .irst

state ent than it is now4 A. %ell# not *etter# *ut there were details. -. %hen you ade the state ent it was with details4 A. %ell# & re e *ered certain inor details *etter than & re e *er the nowadays# who was in the house# who le.t# who ca e *ac!# et cetera. -. Do you allow .or the possi*ility o. this not Pa1( 1366 *ein) a detail# when so e*ody co its such an act li!e you say Mr. ,unarac co itted 3is@M@3is yoursel.4 A. &/ not sayin) that & re e *ered only now. Mada # & said that it was slowly co in) *ac! into y e ory. &t indeed is not a s all act# ada . M(. 9&G&97I&": [&nterpretation] Than! you. & ha3e no .urther ;uestions. JUDGE MUMBA: Mr. ,olesar# any ;uestions4 M:. ,7GE(A:: [&nterpretation] 'o# Your $onour. JUDGE MUMBA: Any re@e+a ination .or the 9rosecution4 M(. ,U7: 'o# Your $onour. JUDGE MUMBA: The *ench has no ;uestions. Than! you 3ery uch# %itness# .or )i3in) e3idence to the Tri*unal. You are now .ree to )o. %e ha3e to ha3e a 06@ inute *rea! so the technicians can recti.y the 3oice distortion .or the ne+t witness. (o we/ll rise .or ten inutes. [The witness withdrew] @@@ Brea! ta!en at 06.A1 a. .