Professional Documents
Culture Documents
1 TIMOTHY McGINN,
11 A. Good morning.
19 educational background?
25 is that correct?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
2
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
8 A. Yes.
11 Livingston.
13 your partners?
15 Q. Before that time, how did you and Mr. Smith divide
20 joined you?
23 investment banking?
24 A. I do.
1 business?
2 A. Correct.
5 firm.
11 commodities.
13 do?
24 A. I do.
1 A. Yes.
4 BY MS. COOMBE:
7 A. I do.
8 Q. What is it?
13 A. It is.
4 A. I do.
11 universe that McGinn Smith did not have deep penetration in.
14 attempt.
17 unions attractive?
2 A. I do.
6 A. I do.
17 unions?
18 A. Yes.
12 McGinn Smith?
15 A. On occasion.
18 frequent.
20 he used it?
21 A. Half a dozen.
24 A. I, I would be guessing.
1 A. (No response.)
2 Q. When was the last time that Senator Bruno used the
4 A. 2000.
10 A. No.
11 Q. Why not?
17 Senator Bruno didn't press it. And we, we never did any of
18 those things.
24 doing that.
7 tombstone ads?
11 A. I believe so.
17 A. I think so.
23 A. Yes.
1 A. Yes.
3 A. James Featherstonhaugh.
12 Senator Bruno was familiar with the firm. He had hired the
3 A. No.
6 the first one? One was the Teamsters account, and the other
8 A. That's correct.
10 efforts?
11 A. Correct.
19 Investors Services?
23 commissioned business.
1 A. No.
5 A. Yes.
18 A. True.
20 A. Correct.
25 the industry.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
13
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
7 business to Wright?
12 last name.
14 A. He was a trustee.
19 particular Local.
25 business.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
14
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
1 A. Correct.
4 union?
12 and may have been -- his title may have been executive
22 relationship?
24 had some very good years with Wright, and then their
8 frame.
11 Investors Services?
21 A. That's correct.
9 Majority Leader.
11 this meeting and what you said to him on the topic of the
20 previously.
22 A. He did not.
5 A. No.
8 A. No.
11 earlier today. What did Senator Bruno tell you then about
19 arrangement.
21 with him?
1 BY MS. COOMBE:
8 A. It does.
10 A. Yes.
14 initials.
18 A. Yes.
21 BY MS. COOMBE:
24 A. I do.
25 Q. What is it?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
19
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
2 earning summary.
4 A. It does.
6 A. Joseph L. Bruno.
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. How much?
11 A. $24,500.
14 BY MS. COOMBE:
17 A. I do.
18 Q. What is it?
23 Consultants Inc.
25 A. I do.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
20
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
4 business.
6 A. I have no idea.
8 A. I do.
10 A. Yes.
13 address.
17 BY MS. COOMBE:
24 order of fiscal year with the most recent first. Let's turn
2 A. Well, there --
4 last page of the exhibit, Mr. McGinn, but the last page of
6 A. 1995.
8 A. Yes.
10 A. Correct.
12 A. Bruno J.
14 A. I assume so.
17 see that?
18 A. I do.
20 that column?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What is it?
25 exhibit now?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
22
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
1 A. Sure.
3 A. I do.
5 1993 and 1994, which were not on the vendor history that we
7 A. Yes.
10 A. Yes.
13 A. Yes.
18 '95 and '96, the total amount would have been 144,000, yet
20 out as the same amount per year, but the total is the same.
25 R-E-V?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
23
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
1 A. Yes.
6 A. Yes.
9 A. I do.
14 A. Okay.
17 A. I doubt it.
25 issued 1099s.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
24
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
8 W-2 or W-4 --
11 question.
23 jury.
6 another page, I wasn't holding it, but I have two more pages
11 I was at.
13 we were going.
25 1992. If you turn the page, ladies and gentlemen, you will
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
27
McGINN - DIRECT - COOMBE
3 Clerk's Office.
4 BY MS. COOMBE:
8 A. No.
18 matter to us.
22 did you believe Senator Bruno was also being paid by Wright
23 Investors Services?
24 A. No.
2 for Wright for which McGinn Smith did not get the
3 commissioned business?
4 A. No.
6 questions.
5 Okay.
11 Lowell, and I'm one of the lawyers who represents Joe Bruno.
12 Before the lunch, you were talking about the creation of the
13 business relationship that you had with Mr. Bruno and your
17 A. Yes.
19 to hire Mr. Bruno then simply having one lunch with him and
21 A. That's correct.
24 you had known him earlier than that, isn't that right?
25 A. That's correct.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
30
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
4 A. That's correct.
8 that right?
9 A. That's right.
12 right?
13 A. Yes.
16 A. Yes.
24 York State Senate nine times. He was a man who was held in
25 high regard for his dedication, for his work ethic, for his
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
31
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
2 Senate nine times. I don't think you could fool people nine
7 you made the decision that you wanted to hire him. I think
8 you were shown a copy of the letter that you sent that you
12 is it?
13 A. Yes.
15 A. I do.
20 BY MR. LOWELL:
24 A. I do.
4 A. I do.
6 it?
8 sentence.
12 and your intent that he did do was a great deal more than
14 A. Yes.
17 A. I do.
20 A. Yes.
22 A. No.
1 A. It does.
4 A. Yes.
9 A. No.
14 that?
15 A. Yes.
19 A. Yes.
21 it?
22 A. No.
25 was it?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
35
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
1 A. Not at all.
4 BY MR. LOWELL:
6 hire Mr. Bruno, you were aware that state legislators did
8 A. Correct.
11 the agreement that occurred between you and Mr. Bruno and
17 relationship.
21 sure he was doing it right under the rules and under the
23 A. That's correct.
25 didn't remember any meeting with lawyers for Mr. Bruno; and
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
36
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
2 A. That's correct.
6 screen.
10 BY MR. LOWELL:
18 BY MR. LOWELL
2 1, is that right?
5 1. I'm sorry. It's right after the date. Now, it's in the
7 A That's correct.
11 highlight that. And you can take the letter off. Just the
14 JLB, --
15 A Yes.
22 A That's correct.
25 A. I do.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
38
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
3 A Yes.
5 A Yes.
7 A Yes.
9 A I do.
12 A I do not.
14 A I have no idea.
16 A Yes.
18 A I do.
21 A Yes.
24 A Correct.
6 testimony was, as you said it, you understood that Mr. Bruno
10 involved?
13 BY MR. LOWELL:
15 you had with Mr. Bruno about it being run by people and he
16 got the go-ahead to do, you were not involved in the process
17 of how any such letter, how any such request was put
19 A That's correct.
21 A Yes.
5 A That's right.
8 Every time we had done business with the state in the past,
10 New York.
13 A That is correct.
18 A That is correct.
20 at all?
21 A That is correct.
23 the union pension funds, that was one part of the contract,
1 right?
2 A That is correct.
4 that?
5 A Yes.
8 to?
9 A That's right.
11 A Correct.
13 A Yes.
15 A Yes.
18 A Yes.
21 Q Same one?
3 amounts, the way they took place, and the documents that
5 A Yes.
7 Mr. Bruno and what to pay him and how much, that was a
14 A Correct.
17 up G A 3, please.
19 front of you. This was a form, a W-4 form you were asked
1 A Yes.
12 A Joseph Bruno.
19 A Correct.
22 correct?
23 A Correct.
3 processing people.
5 A And it's then filed with the IRS with one's tax
6 return.
8 your understanding?
9 A Yes.
20 A Correct.
21 Q -- an entity?
22 A That's right.
24 A I did.
1 A Correct.
3 that had columns in it, it had vendor and it had name and it
5 A Right.
7 A I do.
9 A I do.
12 A Yes.
14 that?
15 A Correct.
24 A Not at all.
2 A Correct.
4 taxes, deal with liability, other legal issues; it's the way
6 A That's correct.
10 A No.
12 A Yes.
14 how it says it, those are not issues that Mr. Bruno had any
15 input on at all?
16 A Correct.
23 A Yes.
2 right?
3 A Correct.
9 A Yes.
13 point out one part of it, and that's where it says: The
16 A Joseph L. Bruno.
18 A I'm sorry?
20 A Rensselaer County.
22 A Yup.
23 Q A public place?
24 A Yes.
4 please.
6 BY MR. LOWELL:
8 before lunch, and one of them had to do with the office that
9 you put aside for Mr. Bruno. Do you remember that question?
10 A. I do.
13 office?
14 A. Not at all.
19 A. Correct.
23 that right?
24 A. That's correct.
2 A. No.
4 A. No.
12 A. Yes, he did.
18 right?
22 send out the engraved cards, he was out there telling people
24 right?
3 A. Yes.
5 A. Correct.
7 your company?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Wasn't a secret?
10 A. No secret.
15 A. Of course not.
17 he did for you, it turns out that you're the person who
20 A. That's right.
23 a good idea.
24 A. That's right.
25 Q. For you?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
51
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
1 A. Yes.
3 A. Yes.
5 A. Yes.
9 A. Correct.
13 A. Correct.
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. No secret?
17 A. No secrets.
19 that any account that Mr. Bruno helped pull into Wright, you
21 A. Correct.
22 Q. Now, you knew Wright before the time that you made
24 you?
25 A. Yes.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
52
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
2 A. I'm sorry?
3 Q. A good company?
4 A. Yes.
6 managing?
7 A. Yes.
18 Taft-Hartley practice.
21 A. Correct.
23 A. That's right.
1 A. Yes.
4 A. They did.
9 A. Yes.
14 involved?
15 A. Yes.
17 A. It did.
22 A. No.
24 a trustee, correct?
25 A. That's correct.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
54
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
1 Q. Sometimes not?
5 A. Yes.
7 A. Yes.
11 A. Yes.
13 side, correct?
14 A. That's correct.
18 that fair?
19 A. Yes.
23 A. Correct.
7 A. Correct.
10 A. That's correct.
16 it?
17 A. That's correct.
21 that question.
24 said, did you and Wright ever have discussions in which the
25 topic was, okay, let's not tell anybody that Joe Bruno is
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
56
McGINN - CROSS - LOWELL
2 A. Of course not.
4 know that Joe Bruno was working for both Wright and McGinn,
13 called him?
21 individuals, and here we're talking about the man you called
24 said?
5 BY MR. LOWELL:
9 own ears that Mr. Bruno made clear his relationship with the
11 A. Absolutely.
13 BY MR. LOWELL:
21 You know that chart that you saw that showed the amount of
22 money that McGinn paid Mr. Bruno over those many, many
23 years?
24 A. Yes.
1 gift?
2 A. No.
3 Q. To be treated as a gift?
4 A. No.
6 A. No.
7 Q. To this day?
8 A. No.
11 A. Yes.
13 A. Yes.
15 correct?
16 A. Correct.
20 to work out?
21 A. Correct.
23 the counts that the eight the Government has brought has
25 correct?
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
59
McGINN - REDIRECT - COOMBE
4 if I can.
5 BY MR. LOWELL:
8 A. Absolutely not.
18 A. Yes.
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. All right.
3 transcript.
6 BY MS. COOMBE:
10 A. I do.
15 Were you asked that question and did you give that
16 answer?
25 object.
BONNIE J. BUCKLEY, RPR, CRR
UNITED STATES COURT REPORTER - NDNY
61
McGINN - REDIRECT - COOMBE
3 BY MS. COOMBE:
7 A. Yes.
9 difficulty.
11 BY MS. COOMBE:
13 exhibit, but the second to last page which covers the fiscal
15 A. Yes.
17 then 1996?
18 A. I do.
22 A. Yes.
24 A. Yes.
1 A. Correct.
4 Bruno was being paid? Is that when Senator Bruno became the
5 majority leader?
6 A. It is.
9 Smith?
11 Woods got more endorsement money from Nike after he won the
20 Thank you.
5 about this letter and about other areas of the letter other
6 than the part about labor unions. Now, are you aware of any
10 A. No.
15 A. I have no idea.
17 A. I have no idea.
20 (Pause.)
22 Honor.