28th Feb 2008 Public Meeting Workshops
A report back from facilitators:
Contents:
Heritage & Conservation
Crime & Safety
Housing
Community Facilities
Diversity and Inclusion
Sustainability
Economics, Wealth, Prosperity
Public & Green Space
Health & Wellbeing
Design and Place Making
HERITAGE AND CONSERVATION
Sue reported back on:
We have quite a few people her who have lived here for a long time and remember Wards Stores when it
was a busy shop and most of the people are not happy with the building which have gone up recently and
they pointed out some of them which they don’t like.
They felt ones like the Bernie Grant Centre which has kept their original frontage was good. They felt the
Wards Store was very precious and when they are spending lots of money on doing up buildings on the
High Road, its very bad that they are going to tear this one down.
PARTICIPANTS: H. Gentle, Ian Mclaren, Catherine Cavanagh, Maureen Cowley, Pat Capar, Owen
Cunningham, Jenny Collison, Tim Robinson, David Divers, Louise Hannah, RJ Thomas-Sotukar, Juan-Carlos
Gereu, Barry Oakes, N Bessel, David W…,Sheila Hamilton, William Simms, Violet Berry, Ursula Brown,
Maysie Wright, Geoff Ambalino, Matthew Bradby, Theresa . (24)
The group contained several residents who knew Wards Stores in their youth, during its heyday. They
described how beautiful the building looked then.
- We have lost so much of our Heritage. This corner is the first impression of Tottenham. Restoration
rather than demolition. We should adopt the Bernie Grant Centre approach.
-‘The building is very precious and both the frontage and the Wards Corner name should be kept. Wards
Stores used to sell everything you need for the home.’
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- I bought my first bedroom suite, wedding ring and curtains from Wards Stores. I will not let it go
without a shout.
- I remember Wards Stores, Woolworths in West Green Road and Marks and Spencers in Suffield Road.
-‘ Your past gives you a guide to the present and your present a guide to the future This building is a
landmark. A message must be sent to the Council ‘ Retain and develop this building of character – an
important building in the history of Tottenham.
-Redevelopment would be much quicker if the building was retained. I feel sick every time she looks at
the Roundway building.
- We should keep the continuity of the market function.
- I live in the island created by the one way traffic gyratory and walk past the new retail park at
Tottenham Hale. I do not want another of those.
- I feel a vital café on the street frontage would be important.
- When the Council is spending vast amounts of money to restore Tottenham High Road it is madness to
tear down Wards Corner.
CRIME & SAFETY
• Market is safer now
o Traders are self-policing – they look out for each other and for the area as a whole
o “People try to steal and come into the market but the stall holders chase them away.”
o There is already a police presence in the area – though this was reduced since it was clear there
was no need for the additional resources – Safer Neighbourhood Teams comes into the market
and work with traders
o Representative from local traders group (not sure of his name-not from the market) suggests
market traders should club together to pay for their own security. Traders suggest cost inhibitive -
note that they had asked the lease holder to fund security, but this had not happened.
• “The back of the market is scary – it’s really dark.”
• Council has branded Tottenham a crime area – it’s stigmatised
• Grainger’s plan seen as having the potential to lead to increase in crime:
o “If it’s a new building with a shopping centre, people will go away at the end of the day and leave
it empty.”
o “A high rise will attract more criminals and then it will end up pushing them into where local
residents live.”
o “It’s all in-facing and outside there’s blank walls. It needs to be open so that it faces in both
directions.”
o “How careful will they be about who they give permission to open businesses?”
• What people would like from the new development
o “No places for people to hide, like set back doorways.”
o “A place for the kids at the back, with a small park.”
o “We need to care for the children”
o “Design out the strange people coming in.”
o “Lighting is really important”
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o “We need an open space”
o “More police presence.”
o “Try to improve on what is there – don’t just go along with the standard thing.”
o “Think about what it will be like in the future.”
• Many from traders’ assoc says gates are needed (I get the feeling he hasn’t actually looked at the
WCC plan). This gives rise to discussion about how this approach is exclusive –
o “Proposing a gate will defeat the object – you’re more likely to have crime if it’s gated. You need
to design out crime, not have gates.”
• Discussion of CCTV opened by man from Traders Assoc. (not raised by anyone prior to this –
focus was on the importance of lighting and designing-out crime
Some brief discussion of transport – primarily focused on kids on the buses being scary. Local
(older) residents find influx of school kids at lunch
HOUSING
It emerged as quite a tension between the need for there not to be more and more people in that area for
parking and public services reasons and the conflict between the need for more social housing the housing
problem In Haringey.
Some people felt that it is very important to maintain things as they are and not building lots more housing,
particularly lots of very small one bedroom flats that aren’t very good for families.
Everybody felt that housing is a problem and that there needs to be more council housing in Haringey, but
some people felt that cant be solved in Wards Corner specifically.
There also was a suggestion that Suffield Road is a place where housing needs to be dealt with and that
there should be a coordinated meeting of people who have an interest in that road, about what to do with
it and how to develop it and how to create better housing there.
COMMUNITY FACILITIES
Main Points Discussed
• places to meet informally – place to pass social time cheaply
• business that welcome you, not just take your money and expect you to leave; like a chain store.
• community has a commercial basis (like a market)
o all areas with markets are thriving – Wards Corner will have lots of spaces to show and sell
farmers market
craft market
• live music and place for local people to exhibit art
• a place to showcase local talent – multicultural
• make it safe (community police presence)
• there will be opportunities to cater for commuters who want a short stay, coffee shops
• a place that has a night life – very much missing in Tottenham (will help with security)
• a big space that generates income for the community
• where different people can be together/different types of people
• not all private housing – want mixed with live-work space
• a place that creates community spirit
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• library/art gallery/restaurant
• builds idea on other successful projects who faced the same problems in the past
• something that makes provision for young and old people (that they can afford)
• a place where generations can feel comfortable together
• the market is a community facility already. One that attracts passers by to come in (not just walk on to
Spurs)
• include non-commercial space
• a place that integrates life needs eg a post office, a nursery etc for families
• something that makes people raise their eyes from the ground
• a community garden. Place where people can plant own things and manage the gardens
• No Musak! (it deadens space) Just Live Music!
DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION
Main Points Discussed:
• Volunteer groups to get involved in the project
• the situation is going to change - economically
• is housing to be build on the second floor?
• economic diversity
• affordable housing
• business rates - what will these be?
• we feel excluded from the community
• diversity important to build relationships and tolerance
Recommendations:
• it is very important to have diversity in the market. helps you to feel involved with others.
• the council to join the community with the project
SUSTAINABILITY
Main points discussed:
The development could include a permanent base for educating the community about sustainability.
The development should retain and include a range of small businesses in terms of size, social and private
mix, and diversity of goods and services produced as these are more sustainable; have vibrancy and cultural
diversity; keep money circulating locally.
Take the fight to the EU court of appeal if necessary.
Make sure to avoid high-rise developments and the problems that arise from that in terms of children's
development and
Make sure that the site includes affordable housing.
Make sure that 'regeneration' doesn't lead to higher house prices and higher cost of living for local people.
Ensure that any development conforms to the highest standards of design and build (eg SAP ratings, govt.
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code for sustainable homes, BREEAM, ecohomes, etc).
Incorporate best practice from elsewhere eg. Bed Zed (Beddington Zero Energy Development).
Include solar power and super-insulation in the build.
Transport - the area is already very polluted due to the volume of traffic - yet it is a major hub for public
transport so has good potential to reduce traffic
Local businesses vs chain stores (the diversity and vibrancy of the current mix of local businesses compared
to the blandness of Shopping City and the unsustainability of Tescos over the road)
How the community spends its money is a key part of how sustainable this project will be.
Energy efficiency and renewable energy
Grainger's lack of meaningful consultation/engagement
The good potential for a community-led project to be truly sustainable
The complete absence of affordable housing in the Grainger plan
The council's model of regeneration will lead to higher house prices which will price out local people
The problems caused by high rise buildings in relation to children's development
Government and corporations use the rhetoric of sustainability but do not in reality lead on it in a
meaningful way. A community-led plan is a good basis for genuine sustainability.
The richness of the local cultural mix - eg 19 languages spoken in one road!
Recommendations:
Capitalise on the area's public transport assets by building a parking-free development - encourage walking
and cycling as they are better for health and the environment
Use the community-led design process as an opportunity to educate people about sustainability.
Allow the community to be part of the design process.
ECONOMICS, WEALTH, PROSPERITY
Jackie Devonport - Resident :Something to benefit all, Cafes where people can sit out. No Chain
Shops, eg) Shops closing down in Wood Green Shopping Center.
Robert Willcocks - Local Business: Crime improved and Seven Sisters a Key Location.
Resident -: Businesses under funded, the Council forgot West Green Road, The place is a lot safer
now compared to 10 years ago, but long way to go.
Long term Resident (40 years): The small business were not given any help, crime has gone down,
older people need small local shops.
Heather, Work in Tottenham: Seven Sister's Infrastructure need improving, Tottenham has strong
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traders, and employ local people. To create more office space to attract white collar jobs to the
area due to good travel links.
Liz - Customer: I can get everything I need in S/s W/G Road.
Resident: Tidy Up. Make use of all the Funding available.
A place where people feel safe and welcome, with a variety of different businesses, where there is
long term stability and different to a typical Town Center or High Street. Businesses that employ
local talents and people. Cafe's and art shops mentioned, as choice of shops .
To use available Funding from Council or other agencies to improve the area.
Summary:
Once upon a time south Tottenham was thriving with ‘quality’ shops but most have now left the
area. The stigma attached to Tottenham (e.g. crime-ridden, dirty, lazy people) is thought to be a
major reason why there has been no investment in the area.
• Need to make outsiders aware that the perception of Tottenham is far worse then the reality.
This might encourage new people to start trading in the area.
The area is not aesthetically pleasing and the ‘shabbiness’ does encourage people to spend their
time/money in the area.
• In other parts of Tottenham simply smarting-up shop fronts and cleaning the pavements has
improved the area - take examples of this.
Not enough support for Local businesses from the council - under-funded
• Felt like the NDC was not supporting local businesses
• Tottenham Traders Association is strong but could be a lot more stronger
Tottenham is fantastically diverse - opportunity to exploit this
• There are already shops that adequately provide foods that reflect the diversity
• Opportunity to start businesses that sell other commodities
A few thought some type of gentrification was needed in Tottenham, but others disagreed
• Maybe there is a possibility for both chain-stores and local businesses to trade side-by-side
Both plans need to provide more commercial space
• Make space for more market stalls (permanent and temporary/flexible)
• Provide office space - will attract professionals (the great transport links to central London is
an added incentive)
• Have a better balance of businesses (at the moment to many hairdressers/fast-food shops
along West Green road) e.g. Bookshop, family restaurant, small Tottenham hotspurs shop
• Attract businesses that will employ local people
Grainger Plan:
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• What grantee is there that retail units will be filled?
• There is a worry that people on a lower income will not be able to shop at the chain-shops
• Chain-shops = loss of money from the local economy
• Rental price of a unit is likely to discourage local businesses from occupying them
PUBLIC AND GREEN SPACE
A desparate need for breathing space was reported by all to mitigate noise pollution, air pollution,
climate change and give shade. Particular need for more such spaces in the Seven Sisters area because of
traffic, pollution generated by convergence of major roads like the Tottenham Gyratory with roads like
Philips Lane, W G Rd, Seven Sisters Rd and the High Road.
One group member remembered the respite offered in previous decades by an avenue of mature trees
stretching up the High Road towards Bruce Grove, and wanted to reinstate these.
Several participants stressed the calmative power of mature municipal trees to baffle noise and counteract
fumes and act as city lungs.
The need for the council to water trees in summer was raised, as many saplings planted in east Haringey
die.
People wanted the back of Wards Market to include a varied garden, a lawn space, and play space and cafe.
Several people expressed a for natural biodiverse eco habitats in built up areas, like Wards Corner, that
weren't overly paved, potted, sanitised, and overwhelmed by the built environment.
A general need for un landscaped 'wild' space was felt.
The possibilities for small rich, walled or open community gardens raised by local unused bits of
concreted or neglected land--eg by Apex House, Earlsmead School and several courtyards and squares
within the Broad Lane system--were discussed, with several participants having energy to take this
further.
Local green space was also needed as flood protection, as weather conditions become more erratic.
Current legal definition of gardens as 'brownfield' and therefore easier to gain permission to pave needed
to be challenged, according to some participants
Those were the main points, with most participants willing to join a task force to work further on these
issues.
HEALTH & WELLBEING WORKSHOP
PARTICIPANTS: IBI, Jeremy, Esmail, Ibrahim, Sidi
MAIN POINTS DISCUSSED:
* Cost of Greinger's construction = expensive flats
* proposed gated development = Isolation
* lack of identity, displaced community
* Destruction of a compact neighbourhood & good community care
* High Rise Blocks - fire hazard
* Lack of social environment - depression, isolation, detachment
* Lack of community care and facilities
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* Overcrowded local schools and college
RECOMMENDATIONS:
1. To restore and improve site with innovative ideas
2. Involve the local people
3. Safety first before profit
4. Give priority to local needs
5. Continuity for small businesses with ideas and room for expansion
Ibi Campbell
FACILITATOR
DESIGN AND PLACE MAKING
14 Participants: Wendy, Valerie, Tina, Lawrence, Gareth, Joanna, Amanda, Chris, Miguel, Cecil,
Paul, Rashmal, Ricardo, Benjamin
1. Place for Car Parking
1. On the one hand it was felt that designing out the car by not providing sufficient car parking
space would impact negatively on the surrounding streets, clogging them with traffic
problems and on local business reliant on transport for their product.
2. Those not in favour of car parking provision argue that where excellent public transport
facilities exist, provision of car parking space should be minimal. Cars are environmentally
unfriendly. Keep the open, public space for people not cars. Encourage cycling. Minimal car
parking provided for business.
2. The Tube is Central to the Place
1. Redesign tube exits to emerge in public square/thoroughfare
i. increased footfall creates place to gather
1. redesign existing tube exits so face Wards Corner and the market
ii. brings people to place of commerce
iii. make most use of pavement at front (cafe/restaurants etc) to display/demonstrate vibrancy
3. Bridge Old and New
a. Restore the Wards Stores and keep indoor market
b. bring back features/glass and shop fronts
c. new build in keeping with the Place and relates to Wards Corner – live/work space
4. Keeping the Business Character
a. Live/Work
i. compatible with multi-use, create vibrant area
ii. residential units relate to the business nature of the area, compatibility with business character
enhances ownership of place and minimises conflict
b. Markets
i. cultural mix through cultural commerce – something we can feel proud of and call our
own/compatible with multi-use, create vibrant area
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ii. markets draw people together in one place,
iii. designing for permanent, temporary and mobile (eg French/farmers) markets – multiple market
character adds interest, stimulates creative enterprise
iv. designing the indoor and outdoor market spaces to enhance experience of different market
character and quality
5. Place for People to Gather
a. Open Public Space
b. create new open space to rear where people of all ages and cultures can mix
c. youth to be designed in – eg providing scateboarding facilities – adults to lose fear of youth
d. green space provision – planting of trees and places to sit and gather.
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